Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Momrangal]

GAIZE I KNO MY SLOT WAS SCUMMY BUT I SWEARZ IM TOWN

[Momrangal]

But also, nice to see some old and familiar faces here~ <3

[Momrangal]

My first vote goes here

VOTE: harumi

[Momrangal]

I don't know, was it? Didn't get a chance to catch up over night, I'm only on page 15.

Would be nice if got some real time interaction though

[Momrangal]

So... I'm guessing it's a no on real time interactions. Shame

[Momrangal]

That self hammer while being a neapolitan was kind of gross. Why not just claim?

That self hammer while being a neapolitan was kind of gross. Why not just claim?

Just absolutely unbelievable. I guess no one actually asked him to claim, but I would have assumed he'd have claimed if he was something important, not selfhammering as a goddamn neapolitan. Killed any desire to reread the game on my part.

VOTE: midwaybear

I don't think this is a bad vote but I'd also still do GC.

Hmmmm

[Momrangal]

My first vote goes here

VOTE: harumi

Why

Nearly all of her posts feel forced to me, and I didn't like their entire stance on elements was pretty yucky.


It reads to me looking for something to push, and besides all that, I don't see a whole lot of pressure on her at that point in time and she just... disappeared.

Just got to the replacement, gonna try and keep an open mind but ehhh....

I could maybe follow you on dun, idk

@dunstral

How familiar are you with the amished?

[Momrangal]

Green crayon, and VPB are my first early town reads, btw. I don't like nor understand the pushes and cases on that slot even at my position at ~ pg 30.

I actually tr Andre's and idk if its because I understand their approach better, of if they just feel different from Bears.

Hi andres~

[Momrangal]

Since we are slowly grinding to a standstill here without much original line of thought, I propose we just run Dunn to L-1 and force a claim.

Such a lazy wagon, not interested personally

ur mom is a lazy wagon

Hey! I wasn't even in the game at this point!

[Momrangal]

Top of page 37

[Momrangal]

But you decide to call me out on it.

INTERESTING.

I purposely invoked amish cuz Baltar <3

[Momrangal]

Ugh

Why did everyone appear when I was sleeps

[Momrangal]

So the amish tell is when you badmouth your predecessors actions, but that's not what you do here

The Amish tell is when the replacement show's high levels of awareness of what their predecessor is doing while not having much of a handle of the game state. Its more than just bad mouthing the predecessor and the tell includes seemingly notable opinion on what their predec was doing. The idea is that scum are most likely going to iso their predecessor to see how messed up they are

So, yes. You were getting ready to make a push against me with the amish tell in mind

Hi andres~

Hey Mom. I want the same as Dunn actually - some sort of explanation as to why you thought Battle Mage’s posts were Scummy. Because I actually didn’t agree.

I already stated, it was a joke on the amish tell itself. I was introduced to it in the first game I had repped into, which was pretty heavy in replacements. The game was dark souls, and from memory, baltazar was the one who used the tell in that game

[Momrangal]

Gone all weekend, may come back Sunday to finish catch up

[Momrangal]

So, yes. You were getting ready to make a push against me with the amish tell in mind

Well if you say so, then that must be correct. Thanks, I wasn't aware I was doing that

Lolololol

Ok, ok fine. I'll take a atep back

[Momrangal]

Momrangal - Players beforehand yes were a little scummy but I think I like this slot for a low town lean atm

I'm just as fresh as you, I've barely posted. What pings me as town specifically?

[Momrangal]

Top of page 42, no longer interested in Dunn. This feels like DBZ Dunnstrall.

[Momrangal]

Mmmm... I might not be super sure about Max/VP pairing. Need to look more into harumi replacement

[Momrangal]

if there somehow isn't scum in <RTP, GC, VB> mafia are having a field day

I wanna hear more about this elements

[Momrangal]

I scum read Harumi who max replaced. I just got to his posts on the thread, but recent developments make me question if its scum theatere

[Momrangal]

VOTE: VPB

think I'll probably go here now. Partly because I feel ignored, partly because I don't like the pushes he's making so far.

I feel like a push on duchess is LHF, and I'm not entirely understanding his push on lotus around the 40s

[Momrangal]

It may be matching his town meta, but I don't like the fact that he's attacking seemingly easier avenues. I also took notice that he had appealed to koba and didn't seem to take their advice in hand when given.

[Momrangal]

Also, considering I just repped a couple days ago, I don't think my activity is too terrible

[Momrangal]

I'm not sure but I recalled (and correctly) that you were one of the few who defended me on rep in. You also immediately tagged on the amished tell there and completely ignored it here. I get the sense that you could make a read of it, successfully did it there but isn't paying mind to it here.

I don't like your attacks on Dunn and duchess, and feel lukewarm on your read on lotus.

Regarding Koba, you appealed to them and asked them to help you out, in figuring out if you were simply tunneled here but I didn't see a response to their answer

[Momrangal]

I just have a very strong vibe of you going through the motions instead of putting actual thought behind your suspicions and pushes

[Momrangal]

TOP OF 51 PROGRESS IS BEING MADE

[Momrangal]

I find it difficult to beleive that a person entirely forgets a tell they used to use once upon a time BUT I guess I could give you the benefit of the doubt.

@Datisi

Give me a mo on VP, Dunn largely amounts to gut and rough meta. Mostly, I don't see the scumgenda in the way he's engaged with Baltar and also myself.

[Momrangal]

Looking at the case VP has on Max, I'm not sure VP ties their mindsets so closely like this as partners. At the same time, he is giving both town reasons and scum reasons for him so it may be a way to defend him without really defending him but having a bit of an out maybe if max flips scum. I feel like interaction wise they are unlikely to be partners but the case makes me question the lack of possible scum theater here

lol
Cookie Monster's "read list" is a scum claim
VOTE: Cookie Monster

Depressingly, don't think so, they appear to be a gimmick alt, not really expecting anything useful from them in terms of content.

I don't really have thoughts on the argument between datisi and andres, they don't look like scum to me, still think midwaybear is scummy.

Do you think elements' vote is scummy?

It kind of comes across that way to me. Cookie could be an alt, but if they are an actual noob, it seems like LHF

lol
Cookie Monster's "read list" is a scum claim
VOTE: Cookie Monster

Depressingly, don't think so, they appear to be a gimmick alt, not really expecting anything useful from them in terms of content.

I don't really have thoughts on the argument between datisi and andres, they don't look like scum to me, still think midwaybear is scummy.

Do you think elements' vote is scummy?

It kind of comes across that way to me. Cookie could be an alt, but if they are an actual noob, it seems like LHF

I don't think the kneejerk reaction is inherently scummy, no, and their explanation for the vote that came after you made this post is

fine

, but I'm having a hard time finding real scumreads this game

I am mostly focusing on this interaction between the two of them. On VPs end, it looks like genuine solving and on Max's end it looks like it could he possible buddying

His vote on me is fine for the reasons he gave, but it is more of an interpretation thing that I don't want to get in an argument about. I hope he will see that I am town soon enough.

i wasn't arguing as if the "lol why am i still top wagon" is the crux of my dunn case anyway.

i am not actually sure what the above quote means? like yeah it's an interpretation thing and you agreed w me, no?

What is the crux of your case, exactly? As far as I can tell, it's that Dunn didn't vote Italiano and made a useless vote on midwaybear near the end of the day. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't really townread Dunn, but that's not...especially convincing?

The point of lurking is that there is never an especially convincing case to make, right?

And this one doesn't really feel like partner interactions however it could be. For them to be partners, it would have to be the ultimate theater but I also think that they are individually scummy. It's either TvS or TvT but I think the former is more likely than the lattee

[Momrangal]

I haven't actually read Maxwell himself but I think (harumi slot) and you are individually the two most scummiest people ye.

[Momrangal]

Top of 57.

Will do Kobs a favor and look at GC. I've been null on them all game which doesn't vibe well with me considering I'm almost caught up.

Trying to stay objective on Max but not fond of his first few catch up posts

[Momrangal]

You too? Hmmm

[Momrangal]

VOTE: green crayon

[Momrangal]

Andres flailing wildly against the claim is probably not scum

How was I flailing wildly against the claim by GC exactly? So you thought that claiming Neighborizer but hiding the identity of their target N1 was reasonable?

I don't think scum fake-claims neighborizer without a target, no, because thatwould be completely stupid. The skepticism was excessive but probably not coming from a scum mindset.

Great. Anything useful to add?

[Momrangal]

Why are you being so aggressive Andres? I don't recall you acting in this manner at all Iin bears.

Y'all be so active this morning mmph

[Momrangal]

Bears was murky waters for both of us as well though. That explanation doesn't make sensw

[Momrangal]

I thought of a way to make this real easy for you, VP.

GC also felt a bit townie, but the aggression on both sides of that dispute makes me suspicious.

Makes you suspicious of what exactly?

Let me be more to-the-point. Are you saying you're suspicious of us both being scum? If that's what this means then that's the answer to my question, and I don't understand your aversion to having that on record in your ISO. Otherwise I have no idea what you're getting at and I need an explanation.

This is literally from 30 or so pages ago. Are you asking me if I think you both could be scum now or then?

When I wrote it, I was saying that the aggression coming from each of you pinged me because it was so heightened for early game. As I said the first time you asked me this, the question for me was whether the aggression you guys were putting out was real or manufactured, and if the latter, who was manufacturing it? This was all in the answer you got originally and I don't know what you are confused about.

You're being similarly aggressive throughout this line of questioning. Saying things like "you probably don't want this in your ISO", when you're just having me repeat the same fucking answer you got on page 14.

Let me make something clear: you are the one putting emphasis on the "caught". I said I caught them online like how you catch the last half of your favourite movie on Showtime, or when you tell a friend you'll catch 'em later. For some reason you are latching onto that detail and running a mile with it, making it out like I claimed to have caught Al Capone.

Lol oh really.

Here is the heart of your statement in Post 989.

[Elements] fled when I caught them online and addressed them directly after already ignoring 2 of my questions in a row and drawing the ire of my vote, all while continuing to interact with my wagon from the sidelines. Elements has admitted to deliberately ignoring me. I voiced a great deal of frustration about it.

You write several sentences about this fight with elements and how you had him on the ropes, and WHY OH WHY DIDN'T VP CONSIDER THAT WHEN HE TALKED TO RTP!!!!!

To now say, after I spent a bunch of time looking back at this, that you were actually just telling a friend "catch you later", is complete garbage.

I'm not going to wall war you, so this is the last thing I'm saying on this topic, but you are either tunneled so far up your own ass you won't be seeing daylight until 2050, or your scum who thinks you're going to score cheap points off someone. Either way, you look pretty useless.

I continued to try to directly engage Elements and eventually tried to rally for pressure votes. There is only so much you can do on an online forum to get someone's attention. I didn't have any sort of big angry emotional post or anything because I was trying to get them to respond, not scare them out of the thread. But it was extremely frustrating to me in the moment.

Last thing I'll say on this, is this is a hilarious walkback after I pressed you for the actual specifics -- like I asked you for the posts -- you said I missed.

Hell, I even said to you I might have missed something!

But when asked what I should have saw beyond a post where you said "elements, post 225", you tell me you didn't actually have any big angry posts I should have seen because you didn't want to scare them out of the thread.


*Farting noises commence*

Largely, I wasnt fond of the way he is attacking her here when he explicitly stated that she was a null read. There were also a few more in his iso where he is straight up diminishing her value as a person and as a player some examples that caught my eye were these posts.

That's a very spicy take indeed.

do you have an opinion on it?

It seems a little reachy to me. Duchess made a fair point questioning Elements' reads list.

Duchess probably is reaching on Testa, but her style as town is fairly verbose, so I can see someone being thrown by that. It is all a bit early to tell what is smoke and what is fire.

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't like the preemptive defensiveness here one bit.

Boo hoo.

I'm trying to figure out a reason why town!duchess would make such a wonky and pointless argument.

Spoiler:

Don't put words in my mouth. I don't like the preemptive defensiveness here one bit.

Boo hoo.

I'm trying to figure out a reason why town!duchess would make such a wonky and pointless argument.

See 225, Elements.

You're saying this post is where you "caught" elements lurking?

"Absent" implies absolutely nothing except that they were not posting. This could be lurking, real life issues, whatever. But there was never any ambiguity about their absence. They fled when I caught them online and addressed them directly after already ignoring 2 of my questions in a row and drawing the ire of my vote, all while continuing to interact with my wagon from the sidelines. Elements has admitted to deliberately ignoring me. I voiced a great deal of frustration about it. If you're willing to throw out a completely uninformed comment like that, then I cannot trust any other stances you take, minor as it may be. From the rest of your posting, though, and the way you approached RTP in that one post, I would much sooner believe that an unsubstantiated claim like that comes from scum trying to shake things up rather than town who simply missed 100% of the context around another slot and still chose to comment on it anyway.

I honestly don't remember you "catching" elements lurking or whatever. I'll be real with you though: you write a lot of words to say very little, so it's possible I skimmed some bullshit from you that looked boring. My bad.

If you'd like to reiterate your elements case, I'm listening.

This is all mis-representation of what Duchess was saying and then completely ignoring Duchess' responses where his points are disproved. He just keeps of with the same line of thought that's just not true.

Oh this is fascinating. I'm actually enjoying people jumping on me because there are absolutely scum making bad life choices in this mix.

Duchess' posts are a fucking incoherent mess. Without quoting duchess, I would like you to please tell me the nature of the argument duchess is making and what I'm ignoring about it. I want to see you state this originally, since you say it is very clear.

At the same time, I Isoed VPB now and like, with the most recent claim I'm doing a conditional 180 on their slot

[Momrangal]

If I'm doing a read lists about now, it would look like

Town tiers
Dunn

Datisi
Green crayon
VPB

--0--

Null

Elements
Cookie Monster
RLotus
Midway bear

Scum tires

Andre's

Maxwell

---0---

[Momrangal]

I basically don't like how you have so much more to say about a supposed null lean town read than a strong scum read. BUT I caught something early day one and I maybe expecting some results from what I've seen

[Momrangal]

Most of what I gleamed when I got to maxwell posts was that he's mostly doing a ton of IIOA, offering a bunch of his opinions on matters but not actually figuring out the mindset. He mostly going "hey guys I'm here!" And I can't even make head or tails on who he actually thinks about the game state and the people in the game

[Momrangal]

That's pretty eerie

[Momrangal]

At the same time, I Isoed VPB now and like, with the most recent claim I'm doing a conditional 180 on their slot

What on earth does the claim have to do with Baltar?

The manner of which GC claimed and referred to their crumb possibly revealed more than just their individual claim.

Also, your posts absolutely lack analysis so I'll use IIOA. I'm curio to your reaction to it however.

Pedir: :S

[Momrangal]

Coming back to this game tomorrow. Promise

[Momrangal]

I lied, I gotta take my weekend V/LA early but I'll try and be back sunday

[Momrangal]

On the road home from a busy weekend, will resume work tomorrow, Y'ALL BETTER WATCH OUT

[Momrangal]

VOTE: andres

[Momrangal]

When/why did cookie monster claim?

Am I forever gonna be in catch up mode x.x

[Momrangal]

I would rather go after actual scum reads but I have zero qualms.

Why are we rushing? When's deadline?

Also dbg is town which is fantastic

[Momrangal]

Her entrance.

Dbg has an agenda while scum and it gets pretty obvious pretty quickly

VOTE: midway
Andre's is the most difficult to really explain at the moment but alot of it has to do the with the way he is pushing slots, and how he is making his reads. I find it extremely unlikely that you claim neighborized the way you did. As a scum neighbor, what is generally the bigger priority is to pocket the said neighbors. I feel like, if you were going to pocket green, you would have claimed to be neighborized sooner way before he was pressured to out who he neighborized.

Dunn is also largely tone. The pushes on him are also pretty shitty and, as scum I think there would be far more resistance to his push and it really isn't there. Dunn is someone who is easy to eliminate as town because of his personality. I really liked the way he knocked he down a peg without discrediting me. The sarcasm he presents in his posts and the way he approaches the game all ring genuine. He isn't pushing anyone in bad faith, his points and arguments are solid, valid and all looks like they are coming from a town perspective

[Momrangal]

Other neighbor checking in

[Momrangal]

From what I can glean

Vpb was considered. Andres never was. Why do you think you were the obv choice?

[Momrangal]

Dbg why are you so woe is me?

[Momrangal]

VOTE: andres

I would rather go after actual scum reads but I have zero qualms.

Why are we rushing? When's deadline?

Also dbg is town which is fantastic

Her entrance.

Dbg has an agenda while scum and it gets pretty obvious pretty quickly

VOTE: midway
Andre's is the most difficult to really explain at the moment but alot of it has to do the with the way he is pushing slots, and how he is making his reads. I find it extremely unlikely that you claim neighborized the way you did. As a scum neighbor, what is generally the bigger priority is to pocket the said neighbors. I feel like, if you were going to pocket green, you would have claimed to be neighborized sooner way before he was pressured to out who he neighborized.

Dunn is also largely tone. The pushes on him are also pretty shitty and, as scum I think there would be far more resistance to his push and it really isn't there. Dunn is someone who is easy to eliminate as town because of his personality. I really liked the way he knocked he down a peg without discrediting me. The sarcasm he presents in his posts and the way he approaches the game all ring genuine. He isn't pushing anyone in bad faith, his points and arguments are solid, valid and all looks like they are coming from a town perspective

Just look at this sequence.

Why are you pulling this out in vaccum and totally ignoring the fact that one of my town reads asked me to vote someone who was at the bottom of my PoE pool?

I mean I didn't even realize it was the hammer but that doesn't matter. What does is the fact that all your pushes aren't taking the whole scenario into consideration

[Momrangal]

I iz dead

Baltyyy

I think the hood is a standard hood. GC. seems to be keen use it as a conditional Mason thread which matches up with what he was saying here.

I still don't get a sense of pocketing from either end so yeah

They seem to be prett friendly for neighbors

[Momrangal]

I think today would be a good day for a mass claim I think. From a glance, we got most of the claims out already

Pedir: that's an answer to your question?

[Momrangal]

datisi
DBG
GC
Dunn
VPB

Max

Lotus
Andres

That's about where I'm standing.

In my mind Max, lotus, Andre's makes the most sense. Max's play is as I already described but the way they defend GC is pretty top tier scum play especially if they are shutting down a theory that scumbuddy Andre's is pushing.

DBG and Dunn are town through how they are both playing and I think going after either of them has a massive amount of scum motivation because at this stage scum need to keep their options open.

The field looks about 3:6 and I thought I saw someone saying that we lose if we miseliminate today and I'm not sure where that came from.

I think we should have everyone else out though just so that we have clarity on what's going on. I think most of what's left is VTs anyway

[Momrangal]

Who should be scum in my perspective?

[Momrangal]

I did see you as town, but you're play here is nothing like your play in bears

[Momrangal]

And you're still ignoring the fact that my vote was in response to someone I was town reading


You're blowing my vote out of proportion. I feel like everything is being blown out of proportion when it comes to you.

You're a confident player, but you're also one who can admit when they are wrong. You can see two sides of every coin and I don't see an attempt to look at both sides to every slot you're looking at
It all feels black and white with you and I know for a fact that you are not a black and white player so what's going on?

Even in bears you were willing to talk to Norwee as if he had the potential to be town.

In bears you saw me lock-town DBG when everyone else was willing g to push it as scum.

I'm not going to reconsider my read on DBG or dunnstral this game so like, I don't know where else to look.

VPB doesn't make sense as scum with his overall play and everyone else makes no sense as scum with how they have all been approaching and playing the game so if you're town, tell me where I'm wrong because the game is going to be lost and I know you care about that enough to do an entire overhaul on the thread

[Momrangal]

Its not bears, its mizzys large normal.

[Momrangal]

Andres, as town is a broad prospective player. He doesn't really tunnel, and he makes alot of probing questions.
These quotes are just a portion of his Iso, but even in these few quotes I feel like it becomes apparent that he has much more depth in his reads. He doesn't even like to push unless hes absolutely sure that hes right and even then he still entertaining how they could be saying those things or doing certain actions from the other perspective,

VOTE: andresvmb

Because he can't be town all the time.

This shows a basic lack of understanding of how probabilities work. But that’s alright.

And honestly mom whiteknighting the Miller claim makes me more suspicious

Can you explain this actually? I didn’t think Momrangal was white knighting anything.

You jumping so quickly on such a crappy argument could be argued to be Scummy. We’ll see.

Either it’s scummy or it’s not m8.

I’m not your mate. And just because a post is silly or the logic behind your vote is bad it doesn’t mean you’re Scum. It just means I have to look closer.

Why do you think I am scum?

Well for one you ignored my question about momrangal. And you like my wagon for undisclosed reasons.

Last time we played, I could understand your POV. And you seemed more careful. Here you aren’t really being careful. I mean, you threw out a completely emotional reason to begin questioning my slot (based on literally faulty logic), and your focus seems overly narrow.

Whatever, just an early take. Some folks are already trying to sideline you by calling your approach superficial and what not. There’s probably something there, but you haven’t questioned it much.

I’ve had a game with you and I know you’re inclined to play that way.

But announcing your intentions unprompted that you’re going to “play support” is something else. I feel like binatong is leaning into the clueless thing too hard.

Passive play does make sense at the beginning of a large, but you don’t have to advertise it. Just do it and people will see.

Like this seems overly forced to me for example. Some people are just afraid of making mistakes or don’t feel like they can lead Town in a positive direction. Why the hate? It’s too stubborn in order to justify a vote that’s probably not there.

Oh and that vote by Ranny also seemed off. Somebody already expressed it but that blatant role fish by DGB... I just really doubt Scum would do that. I can already see myself being super self conscious about attracting that much attention to myself by doing something so obviously anti-Town.

Also, plus was only hating on my slot because I questioned their lack of initiative to start this game. There’s so much to say in my mind and all they have is that it seems like I’m putting too much effort at the beginning of the game and that might be Scum indicative? That’s nonsense, and plus knows better.

You can see that town Andre's thinks that NPOM is probable scum here but he isn't shutting him out. Hes still hearing him out, and hes still engaging with him and I don't think hes done that at all this game

[Momrangal]

In mizzys normal, he did mention that he is someone who is difficult to talk town, someone who is difficult to even bring down to begin with. I don't want to say him being alive this long is scum indicative because he was brought to Lylo in that normal game but the fact that all his opinions and statements are one sided are what is pinging me.

[Momrangal]

Now, from looking back, Norwegian *could* be viewed similar to how I’m describing Luca here. They have also been really insistent about their Towniness, and were blocked in a Night where there was only 1 execution if I remember correctly.

I just don’t see why a Serial Killer would bring up the fact that there could be a third party in the game before it was obvious. I just don’t think a Serial Killer would do that. There’s no reason to provide the Scum, who can shoot at you, with the knowledge that they need to be on the lookout for a Serial Killer. Because I would be looking for something different if I thought there was a Town Vig versus a Serial Killer. At least I don’t think they present themselves as the same.

But I mean, this is honestly a crap shoot. I think I have a sense for how to find Scum, or what to be on the lookout for. Serial Killer? Not really. I’ve played Serial Killer once before (and won), but it was different than what I think we’ll find here. I had specific character targets, one of which was Scum, and I was forced to Town side to find that last target (so I was quite vocal about trying to help the Town find Scum). Given the fact that the Serial Killer has to be the last person standing to win, I just don’t think I would be at the forefront of trying to find Scum, but I would maybe be aggressive about defending myself.

That’s all I have. I wish this would have been a game with 5 Scum and not this. And that’s clearly not what we have.

I'm not sure whether ya'll thinking I could actually be an SK in this game is a compliment or insult lmfao

In reality, anyone can be an SK. That’s the part that’s annoying about it. Because they’re typically uninformed, and their main objective is to live until the end.

Now, you claimed Miller correct? And then disavowed it? And also softed PR? Yeah, not truly what I would expect from someone that needs to survive until the end.

You know, if I had to guess, I would say the SK is Norwegian. I think that I’m being set up to vote Luca. And Luca is never voting Norwegian over me.

But it should be obvious I think from the choice of NK that it’s not me. It’s a bad way to argue this actually and I know that, and I’m not going to go far with this because of the amount of WIFOM that is associated with this type of argument (so I personally discard it most of the time at this juncture, though note that this isn’t to find the last Scum), but if I were SK, I NK Norwegian there 100% of the time. I would have left myself super flexible to argue whatever I wanted at the end and forced a vote between Luca and BBMolla. Because that one I can win easily I think. Here I’m stuck arguing it’s Luca, and hoping Norwegian doesn’t turn against me for some reason.

Norwegian on the other hand has seen me easily discard the argument against them, and sound almost convinced it’s Luca. So it’s an easy decision from their perspective - here I’m handcuffed into a set position, and if I’m tunneled enough it’s an easy victory.

In fact, I don’t think Luca makes that NK. And that’s the part that is just so dangerous about this. Like why leave me alive? If I’m Luca, I would have shot me 100% of the time. I just made a strong argument against them, and if I want to win, I easily eliminate the guy that sounds least open to reconsidering.

But that’s again all WIFOM. You could argue oh but that’s exactly what Luca wants you to think blah blah blah until the end of time. So this isn’t going to convince anybody really. I guess it boils down to the tools that the SK had to live until this moment. Because the existence of the Role Cop was obvious. So if they had the tools to avoid that making them a target for the Scum, it’s not that hard to be super aggressive and try and help Town during the day. I’m just still confused as to the ease with which they were able to brush off the pressure of near death, but they did do this slightly manipulative thing where they simply assumed I would get it right. And I mean I wasn’t going to screw that vote up I don’t think (Vax v. Norwegian).

I also think there was some pressure from Norwegian to get it done yesterday in order to lock it in, whereas everybody else was willing to vote for a No Kill. Which actually plays a role in my thinking too. Luca gave up a potential victory yesterday to have it narrowed down today. I could have voted BBMolla yesterday given what I said publicly and that would have guaranteed Luca a victory. But they passed that up. Why? It doesn’t make sense as a 3p move.

These are all posts from the tail end of the game. Even at this point he didn't go anywhere near as hard on anyone and even when he realized that Norwee was the SK there he didn't mindlessly tunnel and had some insight to what going on. At every stage of that game he was willing to pull back and re-evaluate what was happening and how he could have gotten into the situation he was in and all I see here is "go go go go go"

Pedit: ok that is fair I do remember you railing Titus hard but I don't recall you letting it muddy up your perspective of the game

[Momrangal]

I wrote up a post, went to tend to my child and posted it and the pedits didn't show up?

I mean... I cant prove what I thought but I was asked to vote, datisi was asking people to vote.

VPB had to repost his question twice before I answered it, datisi had to quote and requote questions for me to answer it. It's pretty obvious that my game state awareness is still pretty shot and I'm trying (and struggling) to get to a current perspective

[Momrangal]

Why so you keep doing this thing of shutting me out instead of actually trying to gauge my actual headspace?

Why do you keep going

NOPE YOU'RE GETTING ELIMINATED THATS IT THATS ALL

Instead of trying to talk things out

No one is holding suspicion of you other than me, why am I so dangerous that you want to not talk to me?

[Momrangal]

Ok?

Pedit: so what?

[Momrangal]

Who should be scum in my perspective?

[Momrangal]

I

am the only person suspecting

you

How does his suspicion of me contradict that?

[Momrangal]

I mean if you call two seconds of engagement actual engagement sure.

Every time I try to get you to talk deeper about things, and go deep into it you are turning around and going "nope fuck this"

If I am wrong about you, you know I need to engage to get it cleared up

Pedir: that's what I'm trying to do but you keep shutting it down. Why should anyone get a pass at this stage of the game anyhow?

[Momrangal]

Didn't Koba Express a scum read on you and well?

[Momrangal]

Who should be scum in my perspective?

Why so you keep doing this thing of shutting me out instead of actually trying to gauge my actual headspace?

Why do you keep going

NOPE YOU'RE GETTING ELIMINATED THATS IT THATS ALL

Instead of trying to talk things out

No one is holding suspicion of you other than me, why am I so dangerous that you want to not talk to me?

I mean if you call two seconds of engagement actual engagement sure.

Every time I try to get you to talk deeper about things, and go deep into it you are turning around and going "nope fuck this"

If I am wrong about you, you know I need to engage to get it cleared up

Pedir: that's what I'm trying to do but you keep shutting it down. Why should anyone get a pass at this stage of the game anyhow?

I wrote up a post, went to tend to my child and posted it and the pedits didn't show up?

I mean... I cant prove what I thought but I was asked to vote, datisi was asking people to vote.

VPB had to repost his question twice before I answered it, datisi had to quote and requote questions for me to answer it. It's pretty obvious that my game state awareness is still pretty shot and I'm trying (and struggling) to get to a current perspective

[Momrangal]

Dunn
VPB believed that I was scum despite subbing into a slot he believed to be town
Datisi thinks I'm probably town but still needs to be sorted

The only people I haven't really engaged with was lotus, DBG, and midwaybear

[Momrangal]

You're the only push that's new and I admitted that I am probably wrong about my read on Max

[Momrangal]

I've been on Andres' tail since I repped in and hes doubled down on me the more I start to elaborate on that scum read. That doesn't seem weird to you?
Not only that, he keeps stating that I'm not trying to engage with him that I'm not trying to sort him, just trying to "prove I'm right" and he keeps backing away from any engagement that i try to have with him

[Momrangal]

No body else scum reads him. I need to move heaven and earth to even get everyone else to even somewhat consider him and he keeps throwing out how "NOBODY WHOS TOWN SHOILD SCUM READ ME HERE"


Pedir: I've done nothing but explained that

[Momrangal]

And you're still ignoring the fact that my vote was in response to someone I was town reading


You're blowing my vote out of proportion. I feel like everything is being blown out of proportion when it comes to you.

You're a confident player, but you're also one who can admit when they are wrong. You can see two sides of every coin and I don't see an attempt to look at both sides to every slot you're looking at
It all feels black and white with you and I know for a fact that you are not a black and white player so what's going on?

Even in bears you were willing to talk to Norwee as if he had the potential to be town.

In bears you saw me lock-town DBG when everyone else was willing g to push it as scum.

I'm not going to reconsider my read on DBG or dunnstral this game so like, I don't know where else to look.

VPB doesn't make sense as scum with his overall play and everyone else makes no sense as scum with how they have all been approaching and playing the game so if you're town, tell me where I'm wrong because the game is going to be lost and I know you care about that enough to do an entire overhaul on the thread

Andres, as town is a broad prospective player. He doesn't really tunnel, and he makes alot of probing questions.
These quotes are just a portion of his Iso, but even in these few quotes I feel like it becomes apparent that he has much more depth in his reads. He doesn't even like to push unless hes absolutely sure that hes right and even then he still entertaining how they could be saying those things or doing certain actions from the other perspective,Scum would do that. I can already see myself being super self conscious about attracting that much attention to myself by doing something so obviously anti-Town

(Quote snips)

You can see that town Andre's thinks that NPOM is probable scum here but he isn't shutting him out. Hes still hearing him out, and hes still engaging with him and I don't think hes done that at all this game

These are all posts from the tail end of the game. Even at this point he didn't go anywhere near as hard on anyone and even when he realized that Norwee was the SK there he didn't mindlessly tunnel and had some insight to what going on. At every stage of that game he was willing to pull back and re-evaluate what was happening and how he could have gotten into the situation he was in and all I see here is "go go go go go"

Pedit: ok that is fair I do remember you railing Titus hard but I don't recall you letting it muddy up your perspective of the game[/quote]

[Momrangal]

I messed up my quotes. The tunneling was a minor part, but I admitted that town Andre's can tunnel.

The bigger issue imo is the fact that hes pushing and pushing and pushing and not really working with anyone. He doesn't have the broad town perspective I've seen, hes not looking at both sides of the coin. He seems narrow minded and hes saying he could he wrong but his actions don't reflect that.

[Momrangal]

Why am I such a threat?

No one else suspects you.

[Momrangal]

Ok

It's very likely not VPB and if its Datisi it's not GC

Pedir: I agree, Andre's shot that down tho

[Momrangal]

I don't get why it was so hard for him to explain that. I didn't see that especially not since I subbed in and my game state awareness isn't where i want it to be.

[Momrangal]

Why am I such a threat?

No one else suspects you.

You are making it hard to find you town making these accusations.

That was to Andre's

And that was the vibe I'm getting. I don't care about how it makes me look, I feel like im trying to engage him but he keeps running away mid engagement

Pedit: if its GC, then it's not Datisi and I have strong suspicions on VPB town

[Momrangal]

Dodging

Coming back tomorrow

[Momrangal]

Void of information despite having 81 posts in the last two weeks I was apart of this game.

[Momrangal]

I'm pretty sure this is flipping town

[Momrangal]

One thing that’s been very curious this game though - not a single day has ended with a viable counterwagon.

I reiterate that I think this is a town elimination but whatever

[Momrangal]

I'm always gone over the weekend which is when this wagon happened like...

It took just two days to eliminate him but it takes ages for anything else to build up. Everything else has resistance, and it feels like the moment I got busy, we get another town elimination

[Momrangal]

I was about to ask the same thing

[Momrangal]

Outside perspective, GC flipping green could mean I was gonna use the

SEE I WAS RIGHT

Argument. Calling GC town correctly here isn't outside my scum range

[Momrangal]

I really don't like that last post

[Momrangal]

That scenario is also very unlikely because like, it would bank on some pre-plannjng which means they would need to know about Koba befote they slipped.

Why are you trying to avoid all responsibilities?

[Momrangal]

So max/RL/datisi or GC?

[Momrangal]

Besides, what? Koba was NK’ed N1. And they had already slipped. What are you talking about?

Koba got a good long ways without slipping

[Momrangal]

Of course Koba had good insights. Koba is Koba, but I don't understand where you are coming to the conclusion that scum expected you to follow Kobas back, and I don't like how you are using Kobas Kobas insights to avoid taking responsibility for anything.

And if even if Koba was wrong and fear killed (which I have seen happened) who even knows the two of you well enough to make such a big brain play

[Momrangal]

And if even if Koba was wrong and fear killed (which I have seen happened) who even knows the two of you well enough to make such a big brain play

[Momrangal]

Maybe I would stop suspecting you when you stop responding to half my posts

[Momrangal]

If course i would much rather see you be productive and not whine but why point out the first half where I voice my issues and ignore the second half which is, by all accounts, a reach out in the chance that I am wrong about you.

I 100% recognize my biases against you and I don't want to be the reason town loses this game but that doesn't mean I am going to accept AtE as a reason to back off.

[Momrangal]

Andres obviously I'm not 100% here for this game. I talked to dkkoba, like, twice, and the game is 3000 posts long

+1

[Momrangal]

I don't see much scum motivation behind the statements

[Momrangal]

I have over 100 pages to catch up on while simultaneously trying to get assimilated into the game. I've engaged with everyone, and I need to digest two months worth of games in the three weeks that I have been in there.

Obviously I have holes in my judgement, and I'm obviously not going to get the same picture everyone else has in this game but like

Where do you see me putting no effort at all in this game?

Where do you see me trying to not understand what's going on?

Where do you see me refusing to not come to conclusions based what i do have and using them to create more clarity in this game?

[Momrangal]

Why do you want me to take responsibility for my bad pushes, but then you refuse to take responsibility for not paying full attention to the game we’re all trying to win? Lack of effort is far less excusable than being wrong. Because that can be easily worked on.

[Momrangal]

Why do you want me to take responsibility for my bad pushes,

but then you refuse to take responsibility for not paying full attention to the game

we’re all trying to win?

Lack of effort is far less excusable than being wrong.

Because that can be easily worked on.

[Momrangal]

weekend V/LA

Be back Sunday. Don't do too much while I'm gone

[Momrangal]

Who's eliminating dunnstral today?

Dunnstral was locktown even before GC flip

[Momrangal]

VOTE: DBG

#yolo

[Momrangal]

I've got nothing to really say other than the other two are still lock town

[Momrangal]

Err..

Well...

@VPB talk to me about your friendly neighbor hard soft-claim whatever you want to call it

[Momrangal]

You and datisi

[Momrangal]

Between me and dats, I'm more likely scum and I'm not scum so

[Momrangal]

UNVOTE:

[Momrangal]

Do something other than woe is me plz n tnx

[Momrangal]

Do something other than woe is me plz n tnx

[Momrangal]

At the very least, its confirmed that dunn/VPB aren't scum together.

[Momrangal]

VOTE: RTP

Don't believe you.

Also, what's a friendly neighbor?

why would Baltar need to know that there was a neighborizer? what is even your thought process.

I saw Baltar's post and thought either he was just shooting the breeze, and it was worth putting out a crumb, or maybe similar to a game i just played (I believe with Baltar) where there were multiple folks of the same role (here, neighborizers) and he was trying to see if there was a similar situation

Got to say, I'm not buying this exchange.

I definitely did not see your reply as a claim of any type. I had a reason behind that post, but it wasn't about neighborizers.

[Momrangal]

Datisi has my claim.

[Momrangal]

At the very least, its confirmed that dunn/VPB aren't scum together.

Said as if you know I'm town.

No?

If I knew you were town, I wouldn't have done such a risky gambit to gauge the game

[Momrangal]

From my perspective, there are 6 pairings

Dbg/datisi
Dbg/dunn
Dbg/VPB
Dun/Vpb
Dun/datisi
VPB/datisi.

If I'm wrong, and DBG is town, due to the fact that I gave VPB and Dunn ample amount to time to think that had the ability to quick hammer and win the game.

It only takes a moment for both of them to lay down a vote and if a vote was placed before I unvoted, then the team would he confirmed

Datisi is very likely not scum for reasons already described so, and I gave you a pass due to your opening but you've done nothing but AtE and Woe is me and hzvnt even attempted to do solve this game.

[Momrangal]

Also, VPB. I was under the impression that you were softing Friendly neighbor. It was the reason I had you as provisional town in this scenario.

I think that your little spat with GC was, if it is, fantastic scum theatre and the fact of the matter is, A+ scum theatre has to he the case here given no clues can be discerned from greens red flip

[Momrangal]

Lolol what in the everlivingfuck is going on

[Momrangal]

Also, VPB. I was under the impression that you were softing Friendly neighbor. It was the reason I had you as provisional town in this scenario.

I think that your little spat with GC was, if it is, fantastic scum theatre and the fact of the matter is, A+ scum theatre has to he the case here given no clues can be discerned from greens red flip

I was not softing. I was just joking in RVS to see if scum would react, and maybe draw a NK. It's funny to me that GC was silly enough to latch on to that and even respond in RVS. Guess I should have trusted myself that scum were most likely to think about PRs in rvs

Yah see, this is why I flipped you from scum to town.

[Momrangal]

I have intent to hammer DBG

[Momrangal]

OH

MAIGOD

who's idea was it to neighborize the partner first

[Momrangal]

you all see why I cleared scumtisi

[Momrangal]

Also, dang days. I never would have pegged you as an ESL

[Momrangal]

Also, dang

dats

. I never would have pegged you as an ESL

Fixed post