Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[MegAzumarill]

alright I've read 6 pages so far, don't usually post in catchup but why not

Shiro + imag + morph /good
fua + guilty / bad

please note these are likely to change rapidly UNVOTE:

[MegAzumarill]

7-12

tejate /town
fua ydrasse/scum
ceph/???
also I screwed up imag/implo last post

[MegAzumarill]

13-20

townbinning implosion, shirou, Tecate

fua thinking self awareness is scummy then being self aware is big red flag

redtea and ceph (:/)

[MegAzumarill]

everyone is townbinning fua and it makes me sad
mech talk making eyes glaze

made it almost halfway
ydrasse gets more scumpoints though
morph has the inverse

[MegAzumarill]

ooh did someone say lolhammer?

[MegAzumarill]

Real gangsta move would be to get my role pm and immediately lolhammer my partner

alas

also not much changes in reads and am at 45

[MegAzumarill]

can we throw ydrasse off the mountain?

[MegAzumarill]

VOTE: Ydrasse

[MegAzumarill]

fua thinking self awareness is scummy then being self aware is big red flag

which fua posts are you referring to where they are being self aware?

VOTE: Shirou

Very self-aware. Almost too self-aware, if I do say so myself.

And yes, that’s AtE. Go ahead and scumread me for it. I love manipulating people’s emotions and coming up with bullshit.

[MegAzumarill]

My read was very much a skim and I wouldn't call it a hard scumread atp but it's a low activity slot that gave me bad vibes multiple times.

And I've read up to this point

[MegAzumarill]

Do you think I want to enter the game giving intent?

I'd much rather actually have some opportunity to interact with the gamestate than end the day immediately. And that means some motion for the time being

[MegAzumarill]

mega have you played with fuafua b4

nope

[MegAzumarill]

fua thinking self awareness is scummy then being self aware is big red flag

which fua posts are you referring to where they are being self aware?

VOTE: Shirou

Very self-aware. Almost too self-aware, if I do say so myself.

And yes, that’s AtE. Go ahead and scumread me for it. I love manipulating people’s emotions and coming up with bullshit.

If that’s what you took away from that interaction instead of seeing it as anything but a joke I don’t know what to tell you.

It can read as either and if even so there's truth in jest.
Reading it as scum!you backing off when they realized they did something they didn't wanna is not entirely out of the picture

[MegAzumarill]

Regarding the truth in jest line because I think it's important

You need to be self aware to make that joke in the first place and while I don't think self awareness is scummy in a vacuum, the context surrounding is concerning. (Fua thought/thinks self awareness is something primarily scum does.)

[MegAzumarill]

Less hypocrisy and more psychological

how do you determine what is scummy? This primarily comes from 2 sources: what you have seen others do as scum and want you do as scum. Then subtracting the intersection with what you have observed peopl/yourself doing as town.

Thus my conclusion is that fua either doesn't realize they are self aware as town (which is kind of contradictory) or fua is self aware only as scum

[MegAzumarill]

Wrong or poor logic?

[MegAzumarill]

Limming cops is my specialty

I think I used this arguement in that game as well, it's not my only reason to scumread fua but I'll change topics for now

Why do we not want to send ydrasse into the volcano

[MegAzumarill]

I really just want to hear more from/about the slot.

It's really been just coasting up to here which is :/

[MegAzumarill]

morph, not sure if relevant, but if you're looking for Meg games, there's Role-A-Pair Red.

--PA

Do you think that game compares with this one?

I kinda don't.

but playing with a bunch of hidden alts (or not so hidden ~eyebrow raise~ at neuterhalf) is maaaybe not all that great for experiential meta. Or maybe I've already shoved that one down the memory hole.

I agree; I wouldn't make the assumption that one game is a sufficient data point, but from my hazy memory their entry there was pretty different from here. Sometimes players have different perspectives than mods versus even reading the game as a spectator or after the fact, so I figured I'd mention it. Especially since it was a data point for a replacement instead of being there from the start.

--PA

I do have a decent number of completed games if you actually want to look at them.

I may or may not link them when I am no longer posting from mobile

[MegAzumarill]

Spoiler:

[MegAzumarill]

Nothing strikes as particularly different but that isn't really indicative of anything

[MegAzumarill]

scum!Meg is the kind of person to do blatantly scummy things then try to talk their way out of it, surprisingly usually live longer than my town play

[MegAzumarill]

Shirou do you find me and Tejate linked as S/T or do you just scumread us independantly

[MegAzumarill]

It's a very different kind of read and I wanted to know which

[MegAzumarill]

brain says shitou then but gut says shirou scum
VOTE: Shirou

Feels agenda-y and less interested in actually solving

[MegAzumarill]

What about this post in particular gives you that impression? I don't really feel like it's that dissimilar from this.

I literally explain what I think town!you would do in this situation rather than posting that...like, this question also feels unnecessary Tejate. As if you're asking just to ask, post just to post. I felt some...fire and greater purpose from your posts on the newbie game and I don't here.

Also that vote Meg...kinda

hilarious

to hear you saying I'm not interested in solving. Have you ever looked at your own ISO...?

I don't recall myself trying to force a 50/50 between two players that I haven't interacted with.

Solving doesn't actually require much vocalization but pushing an agenda does. Activity isn't AI.

Would love to hear more of what you think of ceph/ ydrasse at this point

[MegAzumarill]

@catboi the VC is using d1 text instead of d2

shirou you haven't interacted with me basically at all this game
you can blame that mostly on my low post count yes, bit trying to tie me to a town!tejate flip is not only bad logic but also helps scum.

Your position in general reflects a pretty common scum archetype and these two together make a pretty strong case fmpov.

I mean you can towncase yourself but OMGUS does nothing to help in the long run.

[MegAzumarill]

Want to focus on redtea and ydrasse but they don't exist so

[MegAzumarill]

meg, did you see nQ's claim?

yes, I should have phrased it as assuming a numberQ scum flip but I took it out as I didn't want it tied to their opinion on ydrasse.

I figured it would be implied since if NumberQ is town ceph is mech!town anyway

[MegAzumarill]

Part of the problem I hold with Shirou is I find their cases built in basically nothing but feeling very confident in them.

Shirou can you restate your tejate case in full.

[MegAzumarill]

You aren't helping your case by A. not answering questions offered to you and B basing your case on tejate pretty much solely on of a single example of a game.

It doesn't really matter how much you interact with tejate because you aren't using anything from these interactions to help solve. If your entire case is actually based on this one point (which was the impression I got but wanted to make sure, so thanks for that confirmation) it means that Tejate hasn't actually acted scummy in your eyes since d1 when you actually formed this, and it's based off of very shaky grounds to begin with. I don't think town actually follows through with a read like that.

[MegAzumarill]

true

[MegAzumarill]

The only point of Tejates content you find "scummy" is that it's different than their last game. Nothing that would be scum indicative if it came from any other player

Unless you have some secret point about how it's actually scummy?

[MegAzumarill]

I mean feel free to nightkill me.
This obviously isn't getting anywhere atm.

[MegAzumarill]

Alright I know it's been like 3 years since you joined but you do realize playstyle changes the most drastically when you first join the site? I don't take it as AI for a number of reasons.

I did the exact same thing Tejate is doing my first 2 games. The first was a newbie where I was headstrong and wrong and the second was a 13 player game where I was more reserved and ended up being LHF.

[MegAzumarill]

Tejate being town isn't actually relevant to your logic being bad and I think you know it's bad

[MegAzumarill]

Shirou have you even scumcased me or is this omgus

Like even if you don't understand my point why do you think it's Ai (I get the tejate thing but do you have anything else?)

@implo
The problem I have with shirou is threefold. 1. I think their case is bad. 2. They are leveraging the case in a way which would be more beneficial to scum than a traditional approach, assuming tejate is town. 3. They contribute a lot in a way that is both noncommittal and noninquisitivr, or when they are inquisitive they don't seem to actually care about the answers.

[MegAzumarill]

I don't see how that's AI

[MegAzumarill]

Like that doesn't even read like a scumread either

[MegAzumarill]

I don't feel like continuing this conversation is +town regardless of your alignment at this point.

[MegAzumarill]

Good afternoon, I've thought about it a bit and I have come to a conclusion.

VOTE: implosion

Explanation coming whenever I'm done writing it, have some patience.

Interested in this

[MegAzumarill]

You know

Meg really sounds like someone that knows Tejate is town and is getting themselves ready to shade/blame people tomorrow if Tejate flips green.

Not that I think Tejate is town but eh. Meg's posts are increasingly bugging me. It's hard to believe they do believe on what they are saying at some points, their logic is so...weird sometimes?

I was thinking about whether this is a WK, but the thing is I don't know if scum!Meg needs or wants to go to bat for town!Tejate this hard, feels like if Tejate is town then scum are more likely to just let town drive that wagon without needing to get too involved given fua and Ceph are both on it

Meg feels insistent on trying to pick this fight with you without caring how it looks, what does he gain from this as scum really? I don't think it's going to save Tejate if they're buddies either

Meg I'm having a lot of trouble following your logic. You asked Shirou to condense their case, which they did, and then you basically objected to the condensed case on the grounds that it was only based on one thing. Which it was, because it was condensed.

100% agree with this point

I mean I asked for the case in full which is the opposite of condensed so.......

[MegAzumarill]

I don't feel like continuing this conversation is +town regardless of your alignment at this point.

do you think I care about whether it's +town or not?

do you think I care about whether I'm being oh so helpful for the collective town or not

what I DO CARE about is deciding whether I should death tunnel your slot or not because not only I feel bad-faith is all over your approach on my slot, but also because even if you're town I don't trust your judgement on other slots very much if that's your "case"/"read" on me, and your logic is so alien that it tilts me as well.

do you want me to write you a better case on myself so that you can adopt it rather than the kind of stuff you've been using? I could consider being that generous I think

If you are town and are trying to do things that hurt the towns chances of winning that is..... not good

If you want to death tunnel go ahead but no need to disrupt conversation while doing so

[MegAzumarill]

Does anyone have experience with shirou's playstyle as town/scum?

[MegAzumarill]

Happy scumday shirou
happy birthday Fua

[MegAzumarill]

By the way Meg, Tejate now seems to be tying GL/Implo alignments in a 50/50 as well. Are you going to have an issue with that or is it be another case of displaying some degree of selective bias from you?

I mean it's a different scenario han with you but like I said I won't get into it atm.

I'll give my thoughts later today a little short on time atm

[MegAzumarill]

u said you joined in 2018 earlier this game

[MegAzumarill]

tejate did you ever post your implo case

[MegAzumarill]

got it plan to review your slot later and that'd be a nice bit of info for it

[MegAzumarill]

It feels like scum is very much happy with the focus being on inactive slots so I feel like between Tejate/Ydrasse/redtea there is at most 1 scum.

[MegAzumarill]

turbo eliminations are always bad especially when there's a decent chance at least one person will have a cop result tomorrow

thank you for coming to my TED talk

[MegAzumarill]

I've seen mechsolved games lost by quick elims this isn't happening again

[MegAzumarill]

It feels like scum is very much happy with the focus being on inactive slots so I feel like between Tejate/Ydrasse/redtea there is at most 1 scum.

who is the scum that is "happy" with the focus on inactive slots? Every time I've tried to push redtea I've been met with a bunch of resistance and scumreads in return. Same with Ydrasse, nobody is actually pushing her, she's picked up like 1 vote total this game maybe?

the only wagon it felt like most people were happy with was Tejate, and I don't understand who you think is scum specifically that is encouraging attention on inactive slots

My point is that scum don't have to play necessarily aggressive if none of the less active players are scum. If there were more scum in that region I think scum would be looking to change the gamestate more

[MegAzumarill]

is redtea at e-1 atm, I think so

[MegAzumarill]

it's e-2

[MegAzumarill]

no
I misread the elim threshold
VOTE: Redtea

this is the fourth vote aka E-3

[MegAzumarill]

redtea flip gives good info
tejate flip gives good info

redtea is scummier than tejate

ergo kill redtea

[MegAzumarill]

Claim here is misplaced if its from town

Not neccisarily scum motivated but definitely not optimal

[MegAzumarill]

No I don't exist

[MegAzumarill]

No I don't exist

so... no comment on 2403 / 2455 ?

this beetlejuice suggests to me that you are reading the thread and are perfectly happy with everything that's occurring

Missed those posts in particular
I don't think how I want to play out today and tomorrow has changed significantly from recent events.

I want to send redtea today and someone tomorrow.

I honestly need to reread the last few pages it's mostly been skimming from me

[MegAzumarill]

Missed those posts in particular

and yet impressively you still haven't commented on them

You seem to have misunderstood what I meant by quick elimination.

I was referring to quick eliminations from daystart rather than just fast forming wagons. Hence the allusion to mechsolves, I want any cops to be able to out their result before an elimination. Besides Quick lims off of daystart isn't enjoyable for anyone involved.

Besides the redtea wagon has been fairly reasonably considered an option for a while for me at least
It's a difficult to read slot that I think has a decent chance of being scum. Especially considering the interactions of GL and Shirou about it it gives us something at least.

[MegAzumarill]

mmmmmm
I'ma say it
I don't wanna
but i should
it looks scummy af
but like it's the truth
but like I'm also probably just stupid
or I'm right
ahhhhhhhhhhh

[MegAzumarill]

I think fua's play lines up incredibly well with a no kill gambit from scum n1.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk

I am not saying we should eliminate fua (we shouldn't really even consider it until they post their result)

This has been hanging over my head all day phase but it's a genuine concern of mine.

[MegAzumarill]

The idea of having all doctors on them as an excuse to endgame.

That mafia 'decided' to attack the only person that people said for doctors to go on.

The random premature day 1 cop claim. (As if town would have read the post and then A agreed with the misunderstood strategy that is very +scum, and B misunderstood the strategy in the first place and C fua not claiming their night when they claimed in response to a post about the specific night they do their action)
Fua treating that claim as instant confirmed towniness when town should know that shouldn't exempt you from squat.


Your own delay in announcing your protection.
Moreover, the odds scum would assume a town doctor would be on fua because of said claim.

The fact we don't gain an elimination AND have less info today because of the no kill. It would be beneficial to no kill there for scum without the above. (Maybe not optimal but certainly viable)

That I would otherwise be vouching for a fua lim if they were doing their current play not in this situation

[MegAzumarill]

All signs point to scum!fua but it can easily just be town with a 90% clear

It's maddening

[MegAzumarill]

Spoiler: TLDR Version

[MegAzumarill]

Since about the start of day 2

I'm most likely wrong and it's paranoia but I felt like it should be said.

Also didn't wanna because it plays very much into my scum meta

[MegAzumarill]

Like this the exact kind of case I'd pull as scum to try to kill fua if I wanted to do that

I don't want to kill fua but I also don't want to lose to the potential scum!fua at least without a fight

[MegAzumarill]

hello!

Read up to this point and I don't think morphs reaction is ai
Enchant should claim target and why

[MegAzumarill]

I wanna send shirou but it's a bad idea today.
Makes me inclined for no lim but limming prolly best
Most likely lim for me atm is getting on the morph wagon

[MegAzumarill]

Haven't matched it but I want shirou to get their result in case they are town then I want to kill shirou because I don't think they are

This what I want to do most and no lim gives extra cop checks when we have up to 5 unused checks remaining.
But EV tends to favor limming every day

[MegAzumarill]

shoves Enchant

whoops

[MegAzumarill]

she basically does nothing with him ever

to be fair it's hard for anyone to do anything with redtea.


My trajectory has mainly been waiting for the slot to do something then when it wouldn't I figured to throw it out.

I don't think they did anything interacting with anyone iirc since the time I repped in

[MegAzumarill]

it just would've been nice if there were evidence of that thought process occurring in real time in your posts. instead, you have what a former math teacher of mine would call "transmission issues". or a discontinuity.

I mean if you want to math it the odds of two players interacting when they are two of the lowest post count players is pretty low regardless of alignment.

I can't say that I COULDNT do this as scum but I feel like I would be done something with the knowledge that redtea is a scum flip at some point there. I don't think and don't expect to get towncred there for my vote on them, but I'd definitely try as scum, especially considering aversion to it outside of elo

[MegAzumarill]

I am a fan of the current groups
Do not want to be grouped with Shirou
The others I'm fine with

[MegAzumarill]

I also think an Enchant check isn't really needed
But -_()_-

[MegAzumarill]

Shirou/numberq potential team is spicy

[MegAzumarill]

Still don't think it's the best move today though

[MegAzumarill]

something something ev?

[MegAzumarill]

I mean it doesn't hurt us
We don't lose a mislim
We just delay some information over others

[MegAzumarill]

put it like this, do you want the check before we get more info, or after

[MegAzumarill]

I don't want a world where shirou can fake a guilty on Me
Don't wanna 1f1 with the scummiest scum

[MegAzumarill]

thumbs up

[MegAzumarill]

I don't want a world where shirou can fake a guilty on Me
Don't wanna 1f1 with the scummiest scum

I don't understand why

Like even if she fakequilty, most of lobby pretty sceptical to her at best. It's like ez kill on mafia from your perspective.
Why fear

I'd prefer to 1f1 with scum!fua or scum!implo
I think both are town but if ones not I'll gladly trade that slot

[MegAzumarill]

UNVOTE:
Fan of no elim i think

[MegAzumarill]

Intent to hammer

I need a claim from no elim

[MegAzumarill]

(expired on 2022-02-04 20:07:57)

[MegAzumarill]

(expired on 2022-02-04 20:07:57)

Do still intend to do this

[MegAzumarill]

+1

Really not much I want to say other than get your groups sorred

[MegAzumarill]

ZZZ don't like it but atp I don't care

[MegAzumarill]

Not sure about claiming today I'll look the mech over

[MegAzumarill]

I fail to find ATP AI either way because I personally use it as both alignments

[MegAzumarill]

wanna send morph the most of everyone followed by shirou

[MegAzumarill]

Actually I think tejate moved pretty townward on day 2. then we got paranoid about what looked like a perspective slip mid-late day 3. The Tejate inno result puts that to bed.

Shirou's willingness to die pings me as trying to look good as scum but I am not sure.
Uncertainty on the slot in general makes me want to just send it.
Morph is looking townier here then before but then why the style change?

[MegAzumarill]

quote accidental

[MegAzumarill]

Vibes

[MegAzumarill]

Its just the thought of them flipping town feels really likely and I don't think this is their play as scum.
I'm conflicted atp

[MegAzumarill]

@Ceph/Meg how interested in listening to my mech plan are you right now?

and also spicy question, if I was the elimination today and flipped town, would you let me direct your hypothetical cop targets tonight?

i recognize that i should probably read it

maybe

I've looked at it (at least for night actions)

I'll agree to healing ceph.
If you pick a person for me to check I will check them and ceph can check anyone else if they are cop (assuming you flip town today)
If ceph is Doctor they heal me.

If you are not flipped ceph should check you and I'll check someone else assuming we are cops.


Us healing each other if we are docs regardless of outcome is best.


If you flip scum ceph can check whoever and I'll check Number q assuming cops.

[MegAzumarill]

I will ask again to confirm, now that I've explained why it's optimal to check me/NQ just in case we're in 7:5. If we eliminated Morph, would both of you agree to:

also, this assumes you would follow the plan regardless of Morph flip.

(even though I think they just flip scum...)

sure

[MegAzumarill]

@Ceph, Meg

I will ask again to confirm, now that I've explained why it's optimal to check me/NQ just in case we're in 7:5. If we eliminated Morph, would both of you agree to:

Ceph investigates me (if he's a cop)
Meg investigates NQ (if they're a cop)

Ceph protects Meg (if he's doctor)
Meg protects Ceph (if they're a doctor)

Would you agree to that?

Because if you don't, even if it's a bit suboptimal I may be forced to concede on me being eliminated today and just self-vote to make both of you listen to a mech plan upon my flip. I think that would still be better than not coordinating properly as we're right now (for example checking NQ is kinda useless if we eliminate me).

Do like this.

Ok.

*thumbs up*

[MegAzumarill]

*intent

[MegAzumarill]

ggwp all

thx for modding catboi

[MegAzumarill]

Also, hope this isn't a faux pas, but I thought this was an excellent playerlist so I want to shamelessly plug a game I have in the open queue right now. It's a setup of my own devising, and there's less than a week left before it gets kicked. No pressure but if you think the setup looks interesting, feel free to sign up!

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=86437&p=13234907#p13234907

I encourage shameless advertisig especially since I had to fight to get this one to fill. Unfortunately I'm taking a break from signing up for new games for a while or I'd return the favor.

Well if you encourage it....

Here's the link to the mini theme queue where my Fusion Upick is up. It has 2 slots left and is similar to this setup as it's confirmed role madness. I understand if people are burned out on role madness though after this.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=87722