Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[Andante]

oops, I typo'd on the Penguin one, should read

PenguinPower - Scum lean. I liked the gif list, and I could definitely see what your reads were, and like, it showed you've been following along, like, I mostly agreed witht hem at the time. lol idk how you got so many gifs so fast. but good job!! Overall I just want to say not town though, like, nothing seems that bad. but like, the 1 penguin "game" I read, you were town and did a lot more voting.. and the fact implosion called that out too has me thinking possibly not town. It's another low confidence read, but like, if I'm looking at a game, where town you was just voting a LOT, and this game, where you're not really voting.. this is probably that thing where scum are conscious of like every action they make, and like in the town game you had lines where like you were giving good thoughts, and actively questioning people's reads. That game... was Open 836, sure it was only part of a game, but like, you're significantly townier there than here.

I think is what I mean, the issue is gif list happened and I was like "OMG TOWN" cause he had the gifs like ready for that moment! but like, really thinking about it, he's not doing much of anything here, and like in the 70 posts of the town game, he was just significantly better than this, so thus, probably not town here

[Andante]

Andante I feel like is scum because her saying EIGHT

LMAOOOOOOO

you heard it here first folks... ocho = mafia

UNVOTE:
VOTE: malakittens

AYYYY THIS MEANS IM TOWN RIGHT?

@Andante what is the intent of these posts?

Uhh I believe I was having a good time, got caught up in the moment of just how absurd the SRs on me were. Won't happen again.

[Andante]

you can't say I'm not trying to solve if you're going to dodge my attempts to solve you

what's absurd about VP's opinion on you?

How is this about trying to solve me? Do you have any thoughts about literally any of the names I put in blue or red?

[Andante]

GeorgeBailey - Any intentions on playing the game you signed up for?

Why is George null for you but mala is scummy for lurking?

mala is scummy for her "read" on me

[Andante]

I guess the pace of this game is a tad too fast for me

I mean, if you just speak up, those of us who talk a lot can chill out/condense posts. That's so much better then after the fact "oh yeah, I GUESS the pace was too fast"

Vulture - My controversial take. I'm not sure if I should repeat the reasons for my take but I stand by it. As for their other posts, are they more towny or scummy, I'm not sure with the answer to that but I think their posts are logical and makes sense so other than their early d1 suggestion, I don't think I will add scum points to their slot

I might have missed it, but without quoting full posts (just putting the post numbers are fine) could you repeat why Vulture is your STRONGEST SR?


What feels wild to me, is your list is basically just the ordered version of my list, yet you had no comments for me on any of my people? You just provided a readslist cause I said you feel like you don't want to interact that much, it's generally a lot easier for maf to just quote a bunch of stuff and say whatever, ideally you'd be interacting in live time with someone.

I would love to hear a little more on why you have Penguin, GB, Mala as the same tier. Could I get the non cliffnotes version of your read there?

And you continue to say "I don't like Andante's vote moving" I mean, half the moves were where others were voting, to make a wagon, to put pressure on someone, a way to generate content and get some reads. Like, ok, you hate my vote moving, what about those not moving their votes? This reminds me a lot of mala, you liked how I've been driving most of the conversation, yet you give one "reason" to try and cast some doubt I'm town, I mean, I just gave a well explained readslist that basically got ignored, and only acknowledgement was you "copying" it. Like, hello? yall have been tunneling me all game. I finally give you my actual thoughts on the game, and it's just like, hmmm.... silence...

[Andante]

I'd say that first point is accurate sometimes but not always
I tend to hang back as town more if the playerlist of a game is larger, as I tend to struggle to sort in those instances until a good number of flips occur
this game is a bit of an off case where my natural instinct would have been to be dormant but I felt compelled to act instead
also I feel like I do the commentary thing a lot as both alignments, I have worked to curb it a little but I still struggle with it unless I focus on curtailing it in a specific game

So to expand on this, a part of my desire to actually make a difference this game is that there was another game (that just finished) where I made a rather sloppy entrance and it put me on the wrong foot for the entire time I was in the game
So I felt like throwing myself in a bit harder would help avoid that

I mean, at the end of the day, please have fun!! Like, don't feel like you have to change whatever, like, be you, have fun! And sure you'll get misread at times, but fun!! If the game isn't fun for you, it's probably not gonna be so fun for others!! Looking at that dead thread, you didn't seem too thrilled by that game. So if you're "throwing yourself harder" just to... be tred? like, don't worry about how anyone else reads you. Like, do whatever you do to find maf, and we lim the maf. simple as that!! Hopefully you're enjoying this game!! And at the end of the day, don't stress yourself out over feeling like you have to try super hard!! Like, there's only so much we CAN do with the amount of people not doing a whole lot.
If you wanna help sort any of my red/blue names from my list, you're more than welcome to help with that!! If you disagree with a green name, I'd love to hear why I'm wrong!!

[Andante]

the andante case doesn't seem like something scum!him is likely to put out at the time that he did.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

It means Datisi thinks you're town. You're welcome!

[Andante]

Andante flipping me into a townlean I wanted to say is the kind of thing scum maybe doesn't think of doing but I guess is conceivably a sensible thing for scum to do just because she wasn't getting traction. So I will Continue to be Uncertain about her.

lol I mean, I'm not SRing you like I was earlier, and you're not a strong TR, so yeah, lean town. Ideally I have no one as null, so like yeah, and you just had a good 1109, so yeah I think I still feel good with that read, you think I just went "no one followed my lead.. ok fine!! implosion town!!" ?? yeah that isn't the case

Fwiw, I will join the mala wagon if that's what implo and datisi are doing, since they are probably my strongest townreads at this point.

what makes implosion your strongest tr?


and I really don't wanna read more right now, can catch up later/whatever

[Andante]

also I need to
UNVOTE:

not that I TR mala now, just idk, need to figre out reads and that's not happening rn

[Andante]

that's an indication of me doing nothing not an indication of me being mafia.

w i l d
Andante, thoughts?

I think this might've gotten overlooked btw @Andante

thoughts? idk?? what should I be thinking? I see "w i l d" said by someone other than me? uhhhh yeah idk, I don't think I have any thoughtful/philosophical wisdom from this?

[Andante]

like, if i have to write an essay on why my treatment of hutmeil as a partner here is nonsense, in reference with wiz treatment, i will; but i feel like i will be able to scream my way into obvtown if hut flips red anyway, so

Datisi: **will take the day off the game to study for an exam**
Also Datisi: “want an essay on why I’m not maf with this specific person??”

hahahah that’s great

[Andante]

hutmeil’s ISO concerns me, there’s very few posts actually there, and it’s just “I don’t have the meta yall have” “too much meta” “I need to iso this person” “I ISOd fire and it looks like he’s scumhunting” “I hate vulture asking for claims” “I hate all Andante’s vote”

that’s the entire iso… in like 5 statements…

if you just go “feels like fire is scumhunting” and that’s your entire takeaway from ISOing fire?? unmm
idk what I think about this, but I was like “know what… pull up the iso” and… it’s not amazing..

cause bringing up the “too much meta” … AGAIN, after “I think there’s too many posts” it’s starting to feel like hut is trying to find reasons to not give reads,

cause me following along, i don’t see much if any meta talk anymore, and like, there’s so much non meta talk… like i think the only meta I said was “meta says penguin maf” but then penguin basically went “ha! look I’m town” and so like now I’m not actually convinced penguin is maf… idk that’s not a read I’m committing to at 5am on my phone, this post is about hut. I just saw a penguin vote and.. idk about that, but yeah.. ok whatever, is anyone actually TRing hutmeil here?

[Andante]

I genuinely love how gif lists have become a thing this game hahahahaha

[Andante]

the bigger you are, the townier you are

VP Baltar

Datisi

Aristeia
GeorgeBailey

Gamma Emerald

Malakittens

hutmeil

fireisredsir

Something_Smart

implosion

PenguinPower

Andante

hahahahha I love this!!!
I am....

TOWN

[Andante]

im less sure on andante being town than i was before but still probably leaning that way? idk we'll see

So I do some actual game related/towny stuff. and I lose the TR you had on me... cause you TR'd the non game related stuff??
What kind of logic is this?

[Andante]

unofficial Vote Count 1.datisi

PenguinPower (3):

VP Baltar, implosion, Datisi

hutmeil (3):

GeorgeBailey, fireisredsir, PenguinPower

fireisredsir (3):

Gamma Emerald, Aristeia, Save The Dragons

Save The Dragons (1):

hutmeil

Gamma Emerald (1):

Malakittens

not voting (2):

Something_Smart, Andante

okay, so

one of my biggest problems with a penguinpower yeet is that we don't learn much if he flips green. so here's what we're gonna do:

in your next post, if you're not voting for one of penguinpower/hutmeil, give some reasoning on who you'd prefer to vote for between the two of them, and why. if you don't wanna vote either, explain why and

offer alternatives

. if you *are* voting for one of them, say how good you feel about the vote and what you think about the competition.

reposting this so it's not lost on the other page (cough @andante cough)

(cough cough @datisi cough)

[Andante]

@datisi

I see/understand the fire/hutmeil wagons, the penguin wagon, ehhh the penguin voters should explain their reads on fire/hut

I’d probably vote fire right now, saying I started towny but became nontowny?? I RECENTLY POSTED A READS LIST WITH SOLID READS… how is that becoming non towny??? half my initial posts were just meh… idk feels sus, fire prob maf, and hut? hut is nervous maf that can’t get into the game and is trying to put that on everything else… thus mentioned meta twice, and tried putting it on pace of the game… ONCE SOMEONE ELSE said something

Penguin actually got townier, but I can’t tell if it’s cause penguin town, or cause penguin read exactly why he was being SRed… idk fire/hut more sus right now

[Andante]

I gotta agree with Fire in regards to std

I think we got a town!std over a scum!std

you only agree with fire? I don’t think a single person here has outed a sr on dragons… like that’s not even like a hot take???

[Andante]

i don't want the day to stall for like another week

good news for you, deadline is in 6 days. not 7. so by next week, we'll be in night!

[Andante]

i don't want the day to stall for like another week

good news for you, deadline is in 6 days. not 7. so by next week, we'll be in night!

This type of snark doesn't seem like town!andante

right, says the person tunneling me when they're only 60% sure I'm maf

[Andante]

why do you respond to something that didn't need a response while ignoring an actual question

I saw question, so I responded, I told yall I'll vote eventually, you wanted my thoughts on the trio, I gave what I wanted to give for now

[Andante]

Penguin actually got townier

How so?

whatever, in the iso from like 895 on it matches up more with the town penguin I was looking at, that same towngame where I told yall "penguin's game looks nothing like the town penguin I'm looking at" the open 836 game, that I'm guessing none yall looked at that, but rather instead just wanna go "WRONG!!"

[Andante]

all he's been talking about since is how he likes wagons, has no reads on d1, and the weird dismissal of the mala wagon, what is townie for penguin there?

IM NOT SAYING IT'S A LOCK TOWN READ. IM JUST SAYING I SR THE OTHER 2 OPTIONS A LOT MORE.

[Andante]

ok, then forget I said that. penguin lock scum! happy?

[Andante]

I said. he was getting townier. I did not say he's a TR. there's a difference. what's even the point in discussing this? there's just about nothing TO talk about with penguin... I'm here right now, instead of "tell me more on fire/hut" it's "let's talk about penguin who is just chilling" like no thanks...

[Andante]

if I had to guess the gif list would be nai at best. cute/funny? yes. but that alone is not something I'd call him town for. 895 on he was like actually engaging with the game/people, thus I said towny. sure I have no idea what his scum game looks like. I just remember that 1 game cause I replaced him and I read the ISOs of people I replace, thus it's in my mind. and I even went back to it, this seems on par for town!penguin. and I mean, you don't even want penguin limmed here right? so why is this even a thing? I think he's town. simple as that, just like you're over there "Ari town" (probably, idk) when ari is doing just about nothing game related? but I'm not interrogating you over this ari read. I was gonna try and figure out exactly where my reads lie today, but ehh maybe tomorrow.. or uhhh tuesday? idk, my city is celebrating independence day today so ehhh, it's kinda a busy weekend tbh

[Andante]

if you also wanna further talk about fire/hut and vote one of them (or explain why), i wouldn't complain.

I mean, is there nothing wrong with fire calling my start towny, but then once I posted this detailed reads list, I'm suddenly scum?

[Andante]

(2) all he said he was less sure of a townread of you, how the fuck does that equate to "fire said andante is scum"?

im less sure on andante being town than i was before but still probably leaning that way? idk we'll see

Well lets see... if you DON'T tr someone, you think they're scum for 1 reason or another, that's just a fact. so once I started doing actual town things, he became unsure of me?

[Andante]

and 3. I decided I'm taking a page from SS's book, and not voting day 1. easyyyy
(nah I'll vote eventually, just I don't want my vote to end up as part of a wagon that I'm not certain is maf, so I'm waiting till I'm sure)

[Andante]

if you DON'T tr someone, you think they're scum for 1 reason or another, that's just a fact.

no

less sure on a townread =/= don't townread

not townreading =/= scumreading (null reads are a thing)

at this point, people like me, with 200+ posts are not going to be a null read. I lean one way or the other in everyone's books, and if someone just says I'm null?? what??

[Andante]

at this point, people like me, with 200+ posts are not going to be a null read.

why is that? what if the towny and scummy things you've done roughly cancel out?

But I don't get why they would? I know there's a slight shift in my play, but overall, I feel like all my actions would either have people almost certain I'm town, or almost certain I'm maf? like, I don't see how anyone would see me as null here?

[Andante]

and it's like, I've BEEN going "I know my start had like 0 content in it" so now, fire is all "it's not as towny as I thought" like, what? is this because I've been going "I know I had no content, so here's my reads/where my thoughts are" so like "I'm gonna win town points by going "I don't think posts are as towny as I thought they were? like, that's implying fire had an earlier TR for the content of my posts. when I think the TRs I did have were all based off vibes? like, idk, it's not adding up to me, then hearing "maybe fire ahs you as null" like, how would I be null? like, I have the giant reads list? that's literally all anyone needs to read someone. you look at the reads list and you look at the reasoning behind those reads, and that should make it pretty clear whether they're town/scum

[Andante]

*For the record I'm not against voting, I'm just waiting till I feel good about voting somewhere, it doesn't help when half the game is currently next to impossible to read

[Andante]

LOL right... I'm very anti-voting!!! if it actually bothers yall I can go find someone I want to vote, otherwise... maybe like tomorrow I'll think about it

[Andante]

*For the record I'm not against voting, I'm just waiting till I feel good about voting somewhere, it doesn't help when half the game is currently next to impossible to read

atp if you're town you're just not trying

correct. Wed, Thurs,Fri were wild/busy, BUT... the clients and my department LOVED my research stuff, so that's why there's been ~ nothing there, research is over now, and ehh overall not much has happened, so wherever my giant reads list is, my reads are essentially the same as that, and hey, that 1 post is a lot more clarity on where I'm at than most these others.

[Andante]

Subject: Newbie 2087 | Celebrating Betty White | End!

I just finished reading that VOTE: Ahri

yeah no. "I do want to hear more from Andante" Obviously I fully intend to be more active and do me, I told yall I wouldn't be around. I am so sorry I didn't stop at gas stations, get on my phone, and talk here durring my trip. I've given plenty, like, looking at my ISO, I genuinely SR it, and I feel like anyone calling me town is maf that knows too much, cause there's not a towny part to that... this Ahri post feels like maf being very cautious with words

ok nvm she was town here

uhh what exactly is this quote from this game proving? I did like nothing at all that game? It's not what I'd use as meta going "SO TOWN!" are we just quoting random things in an ISO from a random game going "yeah so town!!"

[Andante]

I guess I'm fine with this
VOTE: hutmeil

[Andante]

3 days since we've heard from penguin? I know it's a holiday weekend.. but like.. I kinda echo what's been said, we literally can't do anything if no one is really around...

[Andante]

I'm not really a fan of the top wagons, but like, not much has happened so idk. hut showing up just to go "me or penguin? I choose penguin!" felt a little odd

[Andante]

Invictus kinda fried my brain, deadline is kinda soon though. ahhhhh idk, hut is my best guess for maf, and I kinda just stopped paying attention when Dragons showed up

[Andante]

I kinda just stopped paying attention when Dragons showed up

Because of Dragons, or....?

just life got busy, nothing about dragons specifically

I'm not really a fan of the top wagons, but like, not much has happened so idk. hut showing up just to go "me or penguin? I choose penguin!" felt a little odd

how

how? that didn't feel off to you?
So, hutmeil has been DEADSET on vulture maf. Dragons come in. completely drops it. All that's left in the bottom of hut's reads are the 3 lurkers, which hut SRs for lurking. and literally everyone else is null or town. Hut literally isn't trying to find mafia here. like "I'm voting my SR, who is a SR cause of LURKING" and what info do we get when we lim lurkers? nothing

[Andante]

ok, but why is there a *need* for self preservation with deadline 4 days away?

[Andante]

plenty of time to come up with a SR and push there

[Andante]

hahahahaha I'm not a reliable fire reader, I'd say the biggest thing I noticed were his "reads" I don't think he pushed a single scum that game...

but overall I'm still thinking hut lim is best here... or someone who isn't being wagoned, like Mala. Cause the thread could be dead (I know there was a holiday) cause scum are content with the direction this is going, meaning, change up the wagons, people might start having a voice

[Andante]

I for one am glad VP Baltar is here to warn us about the dangers of Fire!scum and the PT of Doom.

tbh that PT was FUN!! I loved it so much!! sounds like fire hated it :/ but I had fun!!!

[Andante]

Ari, who are you thinking is town or maf here? There's a few I'm struggling to sort

[Andante]

maybe some people are playing scummier than usual because reasons

if that's happening... nice

umm basically everyone has went down a level in my reads, I just... idk, I want more to start taking this seriously or something... Dats VP Gamma I honestly just TR for being here, and I know those 3 are fully capable of being maf, so yeah, maybe I should just stop caring, or purposely play scummy? like, this is getting annoying... Anyone wanna... play the game they signed up for? wild idea I know..

[Andante]

the people who have been in invictus for longer than i have, does that game impact your read on fire here?

while i don't have a problem with hutmeil voting for self-pres, though i am slightly worried about how the vulture/std read kinda seemingly. disappeared.

Well, it didn't disappear, just pushed to the side since it's me vs the penguin wagon right?

why isn't mala an option?

[Andante]

why isn't mala an option?

I don't think there's a wagon on Mala? Plus the top 2 wagons are on me and Penguin.

I don’t care about current wagons, I’ll ask again, why can’t Mala be an option here?

[Andante]

why isn't mala an option?

I don't think there's a wagon on Mala? Plus the top 2 wagons are on me and Penguin.

I don’t care about current wagons, I’ll ask again, why can’t Mala be an option here?

Not sure what you mean but sure Mala can be an option. She's in my sr as a lurker. I'm fine eliminating lurkers on d1. But I don't think we can get there since it's basically me or penguin at this point.

you see how no one is around or doing anything with their votes right now? it means no one is actually deadset on who they vote. I think the consensus is just whoever in mala/penguin/hut

Like, I'm pretty certain mala is not town, only doing anything when there's direct pressure? that feels scum indicative to me. I'm not sure I'm a fan of this "must be hut or penguin!!!" "woe is me" thing like, getting the mala votes is not going to be a hard thing to do. So I'll ask again. Why not mala? what is townier about mala lurking than penguin lurking?

[Andante]

VOTE: Mala

[Andante]

um what did you find townie about Penguin's posts?

what's towny about mala?

[Andante]

the ONLY significant contributions we got from mala was when mala had direct pressure, and the wagon going her way. I genuinely do not believe this entire penguin wagon actually believes penguin flips red here.

If yall want to think about it, you had your "dueling wagons" on hut and penguin and game was dead, none of yall feel strongly one way or the other. I feel pretty strongly that mala isn't town here, so, I ask that yall at least think about voting her. thanks

[Andante]

nothing

but if we run up each scummy player to e-1 one by one we're going to out a mason eventually

well yeah, if people are making dumb wagons for the sake of running people to e-1 obviously a mason will be outed, thus... we're smart about this. and only send the people we SR to e-1... wow what a concept

and a sr for lurking? is not a legit sr, and you can't convince me it is.. @hut

[Andante]

why are you suddenly concerned about outing masons? that feels really odd to me...

[Andante]

Dragons throwing penguin on e-1 there was hella sus to me, after "being gone" then you show up, no words. just a vote...

Ari/hut/Dragons/mala

that's my pool of sus people right now

[Andante]

and while competing wagons closed to deadline can be good, the fact that one is lead by the penguin is. uh. y'know. kinda concerning.

I was literally talking about mala maf before penguins vote, what are you talking about?

[Andante]

why is mala so hard to lim here?

[Andante]

@dragons. Why is penguin maf? and why is mala town?

[Andante]

penguin is doing nothing just shitposting. i thought his entrance was townie just on vibes but after seeing nothing happening with the slot i'm slowly getting more and more convinced it's just a scum slot doing nothing and lurking.

mala's attempts at catching up have seemed town, they remind me of the coalition game

I don't think penguin is maf here, that penguin gif in response to "I'm waiting for penguin" like, yes I laughed, but I don't think that's how scum!penguin approaches this game.

and the fact mala's "catchup" happened when she has all the votes on her means nothing? mala is mafia here.

[Andante]

atp I'm basically waiting for Penguin to show up and post something

like, this gif was PERFECT lmaooo I don't think scum!penguin responds this, scum!penguin would probably be more concerned about the votes, this just feels like town... pretty close to the half of a town game I looked at too. sure I have no idea what scum!penguin looks like, I just think mala is a lot scummier here than penguin...

[Andante]

I mean, why is there opposition to limming mala here.... mala is mafia and none yall want to vote mala

[Andante]

are you ready for night dear?

I thought we just established in the other game, asking to hammer is something that comes from scum...

Ari is maf

[Andante]

I agree on implosion 100%

VOTE: implosion

Just looking at implosion trying to justfy a sr on penguin before he voted it was odd, and he was also one "of the first" to jump on the penguin SR after a handful of people said stuff.
I think Ari is the partner though, but I agree with implosion so I'll vote there

[Andante]

hmmmmm
UNVOTE:

[Andante]

Just want to point out that VP had 3 SRs - Peng/Mala/Andante. He got Peng right. Maybe that got him NKd? I get the Mala SR. But Andante I have to think about more...

he tunneled me at one point sure, but if he still SRed me he'd have kept tunneling? so idk what the point you're trying to make here even is? Scum was obv hunting for masons, killed someone that no one SRed, assuming he'd be mason, and they were wrong, there's is no way scum kills him for his reads cause I'm town, and if this is your attempt to start a tunnel on me? think again

[Andante]

I did have some thoughts overnight while looking for potential penguin partners,

so in 986, I posted about how I was thinking penguin was genuinely scum cause his play was not lining up with his town game AT ALL. This was the first time I think there was a genuine SR penguin's way other than "SR for lurking" like, could just be me thinking the world revolves around me. The point is, it was a VERY solid point that ended up being true, but I went back to this to just see how people acted around it, cause scum would know I was 1000% correct there, so if they're bussing, that's probably about the time they would start, cause it was an actual "yo... so nothing about penguin here lines up with this town game I'm looking at" and yeah I had my doubts after that, but that's not the point.

Immediate reaction. Gamma is there, but gamma completely ignores my "penguin is an actual scum lean" in 987 and is going on and on about how I'm not engaging with them, like, I even ended up correcting what I said about penguin, so like, if you're "trying so hard to engage with andante" why do you not just mention literally anything about that list of reads? So I definitely think Gamma is a little sus

~~

And my implosion issues were with 1111 and 1113
Like, those posts talking about penguin just feel super odd/distancey to me, cause this is the point where the Penguin SR is gaining momentum, so it's like "here's awkward posts that will later justify my SR on penguin... and to me they feel very odd, but then his response to me last night didn't seem too bad? but these 2 posts, I still can't get over how non towny they seem with their approach to penguin

[Andante]

but then, it's like, at the end of the day I still have SRs on Ari, Hut, and mala, so it's like, idk. Like, yay! I'm glad yesterday worked out, but I'm kinda just super confused about where to go today

[Andante]

Dragons, why do you TR hut so much? can you help me see it please?

[Andante]

Dragons, why do you TR hut so much? can you help me see it please?

and the only other read I care about for now is gamma, why do you TR gamma so much as well?

[Andante]

i think hutmeil is actively solving. i like the readslist in 998 i think it shows hutmeil is paying attention to the game and gives me town vibes.

i also liked how they put me down as scummy for voting mala but when i pointed out that i didn't vote mala they retracted that, i think they are actively trying to read my slot even though to them vulture did something scummy out of the gate.

I mean, hut kept a SR on your slot cause the person before you said "masons shouls claim" and that was the sole reason hut kept a SR on vulture... then it was like "well I have no choice but to vote penguin. self preservation! All lurkers are scummy. That's hut's entire game... hut SRs the lurkers while at the same time being a lurker themself.. I honestly haven't seen an original, good take, from hut this game. which is why I'm struggling to see hut as town. So "I think hut is paying attention to the game" isn't really enough to convince me hut is town... like, hut was going "I guess there's too many posts" then I was like, just say something... then it was "yall have too much meta" like, hut is trying to find every excuse to NOT do anything. So yeah, I'd really love to hear more on this TR, especially since you have so many people below hut... I would love specifics as to why hut is town. post numbers are good.

[Andante]

Dragons, why do you TR hut so much? can you help me see it please?

and the only other read I care about for now is gamma, why do you TR gamma so much as well?

i just played a game with gamma where gamma seemed detached and uninterested in the game, as scum. she's not doing that here, she seems engaged and interested.

What part of gamma is engaged? VP was tunneling me, then Gamma jumped on that tunnel... like, Gamma really isn't doing much. Statements like "she seems engaged and interested" really don't help. I'm asking you to help me see your TRs as town. I SR Gamma, I already explained why. and your "help for TRing Gamma" is... basically non existent.

[Andante]

*If you only respond to 1 of my posts, I'd rather discuss hutmeil right now

[Andante]

can we be serious for like 2 seconds?

[Andante]

whatever, let me know when people want to take this seriously.

[Andante]

i don't really have a good answer unfortunately. it's mostly townie vibes.

i like that he liked my posting 1217, it could be a bit pockety but why pocket the one scumread you had?

it's some little things like that that add up to a town read.

> So far so good. He's still catching up and he's responding as he goes. I haven't seen anything untownie from his posts. I'm taking note of 1131 though where he said Datisi could just be getting townie credits (as scum?). Other than that, I'm just waiting for his gif list.

So you liked this post from hutmeil enough to TR them? Hut can't SR you for asking the masons to claim, in general, when anyone new enters a game, their catchup is almost always towny. It's so easy for scum to just comment of past stuff, and never interact in the present - like hut is basically doing, I really dont get what you TR about this.. it's not even trying to pocket you. just a generic "hmm yeah that slot could be town" I really don't understand why you have such a strong tr here on hut... for the "content" that is there.... it's a short read, I really encourage you to look at that iso... then try and tell me how hut is town

[Andante]

whatever, let me know when people want to take this seriously.

im slightly leaning hut town just bc i think scum were trying to push them as a counter to penguin, and hut voting scum partner penguin when they did doesn't really fit with the model i had in my head of how they would be playing this game if they were scum here bc it's a kind of planning-way-ahead sort of thing. i would expect them to be more likely to, if taking any action, take action of preservation rather than bussing, and if stuck in a place where the only real option is bussing id kinda expect them to do nothing

idk really how they'd play as scum so thats not super strong, but i do feel like it's more likely that scum (penguin, and probably george) wanted them dead

give me names of people trying to push hut over penguin

[Andante]

whatever, let me know when people want to take this seriously.

what do you think about my analysis of the votes on penguin and my general thoughts that we should murder on-wagon

I mean, I'm 100% certain there's at least 1 partner on that wagon, basically why I was really looking at implosion like "what are these posts..." with 1111 and 1113

[Andante]

PenguinPower (7): VP Baltar, implosion, Datisi, Gamma Emerald, hutmeil, Save The Dragons, Aristeia

And like, everyone I SR is essentially on this wagon. Dragons here with this hut read is making 0 sense, I don't see town going like "oh hut changed their read!! hut is town!!!" like, if you were town in that spot, why is the thought not "the read change is very odd, is this cause I'm a lot harder to push than vulture was?" idk, dragons isn't making sense here with this hut read, and I actually don't like it

[Andante]

whatever, let me know when people want to take this seriously.

im slightly leaning hut town just bc i think scum were trying to push them as a counter to penguin, and hut voting scum partner penguin when they did doesn't really fit with the model i had in my head of how they would be playing this game if they were scum here bc it's a kind of planning-way-ahead sort of thing. i would expect them to be more likely to, if taking any action, take action of preservation rather than bussing, and if stuck in a place where the only real option is bussing id kinda expect them to do nothing

idk really how they'd play as scum so thats not super strong, but i do feel like it's more likely that scum (penguin, and probably george) wanted them dead

give me names of people trying to push hut over penguin

george v much did

mala didn't really take a stance but def had more posts critical of hut than she did of penguin (1149). i think scum would probably be avoiding having all 3 on the same wagon anyway tho

george didn't do anything all game, and mala was VERY absent at that eod.... you're trying to tell me, scum!george and scum!mala were trying to wagon hut to save penguin??? WHAT KIND OF LOGIC IS THIS???

[Andante]

know what... yall do whatever, sort out your reads.. the logic here... right now?? lmao I can't

[Andante]

dragons is very much making sense with his hut read tyvm

it feels like you're nitpicking one particular thing i said and saying that's the basis of my entire read

you only gave me 1 post number of the "many posts you TR" not like you gave me a whole lot to work with, why is this suddenly "you're nitpicking my read"

I've been watching hut all game... I know what hut has actually done.. your TR and your reasons for the TR.... I asked you for your strongest towncase, to help me see hut as town. I currently see hut as scum. and you've done nothing to really convince me

[Andante]

Hmmm, I'm not sure he dropped his SR on you? See 1371. I acknowledge implo's post 1626 on why you might be town. But this could be WIFOM so I'm still sus on that since the only conftown (VP) we have , has been SRing you from the beginning.

hut if you want to 1v1 me let's go. Why am I scum. We're not playing this game all day of "oh you must've killed VP for his read on you" let me hear the case. lets go. let me hear it.

[Andante]

cause I don't like this weak push on me, you are literally waiting to see if someone agrees with you before you push this take, so let's hear it. Why is andante maf?

[Andante]

Actually, hut I have an easier question for you, as much as I want you to actually commit to this SR on me,

I also want to know, do you genuinely believe the only reason VP died was cause of his reads being "100% correct"

Why is it so hard to believe he died due to being a universal TR, and SRed by literally no one.. meaning, from a mafia pov, he would most likely be a mason. This is also kinda tripping me up, cause hut, you're all "VP died cause of andante!!!" but that's the "entire case" also... lol at the pop in right as we're talking about you

[Andante]

if you remember my list D1, I actually TL you.

I do, which is why I'm confused why you're suddenly like "the only reason VP died was his reads"

But I can't ignore our only conftown's SR on you though. Of course he could be wrong.

so when he's alive, you didn't care about his reads, but now that he's dead. we must put his "reads" on this high pedestal? you town leaned me, and he had me as like lock scum half the day.. if you actually cared about his reads, why did you not interact while he was alive?

You tried to divert the Peng wagon to Mala.

Yeah, because he was copying his town game... as I literally pointed out.. said he was town or scum copying his town meta.. I had penguin as a SR till he got townier, and then mala continued to do nothing, except when she was under pressure, like, I have no problem with the fact I was trying to flip it to mala, remember how you were sheeping VP? VP also SRed Mala. So if we're playing by VP's reads, I flipped it from 1 maf to another... we have no way of knowing what the exact situation was till mala flips. And if mala flips red, I'd almost bet we're not having this conversation about how I'm maf for trying to flip the wagon to mala

Implo said Andante!scum would not this because it's useless to save a scummate that's about to go down. But I say maybe Andante!scum is trying to WIFOM and devious so she goes with it to appear towny.

Right, cause I'd make a SOLID case about penguin being scum, then completely move on... as scum. I litereally was like "yall. I really think penguin scum" at one point, and shortly after that penguin was changing up his play, so I had doubts, and a mala wagon literally was not bad there...

I'm just putting this out here for everyone to think about since you asked for more info.

What is there to even think about?

[Andante]

And my implosion issues were with 1111 and 1113
Like, those posts talking about penguin just feel super odd/distancey to me, cause this is the point where the Penguin SR is gaining momentum, so it's like "here's awkward posts that will later justify my SR on penguin... and to me they feel very odd, but then his response to me last night didn't seem too bad? but these 2 posts, I still can't get over how non towny they seem with their approach to penguin

I kind of feel like just not responding to this but bleh.

I sort of disagree that this is the "point" where the penguin SR gains momentum; it's the point where my read on Penguin is refining from "absent but should be easy to read if he shows up" to "okay, he really needs to actually show up at this point bc what he's posted is slightly nonsense".

The 1111 question is me trying, essentially one last time, to get Penguin to interact meaningfully with me.

1113 I sort of see what you're saying; it's also sort of a desperate "if Penguin is town I should be able to figure that out but he's not letting me", but it's also sort of the first thing in Penguin's play that I actually found explicitly scummy. So yeah like. The explanation you gave is theoretically sound if I'm scum. I just happen to not be. I can understand someone not liking the way I jumped on Penguin, but also it's really not like it was inevitable that Penguin was going down by the time I jumped him, and also if this is the point where momentum shifted against Penguin, then I'm like, a significant reason for that shift. I mean you cited your earlier post as the "first good point against penguin" or something, but in that post, you also say that I've already kind of said what you're saying there about penguin >_>

(still catching up)

hmmm I don't think I want to flip you for now.. I guess you're safe lol

and yall, is it a bad idea to flip mala? like, she needs to give like significantly towny stuff to save her here, but like, I kinda still agree with my d1 "case" where she does nothing unless there's actual pressure, and especially since the counter was a maf wagon, I really don't see why the mala wagon gained no momentum

[Andante]

VOTE: Malakittens

[Andante]

I am pretty bad at catching people who bus tbh >___>

why? Penguin wasn't even a hard scum member to bus... he was doing nothing, town was calling him on it, it's not really hard to go "yeah maf would be fine bussing in that situation"
this isn't even about "having to catch someone who bussed" maf really couldn't just defend Penguin unless Penguin was going to really change how he played, which isn't very likely for anyone..

[Andante]

like if Andante/George are both town

oh am I the next lim after yall get your george lim?

[Andante]

I am pretty bad at catching people who bus tbh >___>

why? Penguin wasn't even a hard scum member to bus... he was doing nothing, town was calling him on it, it's not really hard to go "yeah maf would be fine bussing in that situation"
this isn't even about "having to catch someone who bussed" maf really couldn't just defend Penguin unless Penguin was going to really change how he played, which isn't very likely for anyone..

I mean you literally hard defended penguin

for posting a funny gif

so why can't a mafia player also hard defend penguin and decide to vote someone else?

yeah? and? I'm town so I'm not really sure what to say here, like you have the standard speech of "scum care more about how they're perceived" but like, me saying it won't mean a thing. I have no regrets hard defending penguin, he brought the entertainment, now this is just... meh... like, yall are refusing to lim mala, mala isn't doing anything, so whatever, but uuhhh we're not limming george into me, that's a dumb plan tbh

[Andante]

the issue is i don't see anything townie? what do you consider townie from him

I thought the way he flipped out at Andante making a joke about Ocho was kind of townie - he seemed pretty upset by that and I associate him being angry about silly things to be a townie trait.

scum don't get angry when stuff isn't going their way?

[Andante]

like if Andante/George are both town and both defending penguin for p bad reasons, I don't see why scum would decide oh I'm going to bus rather than help swing the wagon towards someone else and maybe get a misyeet off?

scum need misyeets to win and the best way to get misyeets is to deny information to the town by running up people who are not scum.

Datisi, how is this NOT implying Ari wants me and George dead? "If X and Y are town, this doesn't make sense" literally sounds like Ari plans on flipping us both before looking for maf elsewhere

[Andante]

yall are refusing to lim mala

i think the only person who has expressed not being interested in limming mala is std. me and implo voting george both want mala dead as well, p sure ari wants mala, dunno what hut and s_s want

I see 2 votes and momentum shifting towards George. that doesn't scream "people are wanting to vote mala"

[Andante]

andante, ari has been talking about scum probably not bussing for like 3 years now

hmmm.. wait that makes me scum then? cause I didn't end with my vote on penguin.. so yeah, ari is calling me maf?

[Andante]

hmmm good talk Gamma and Mala!!! So we're just waiting on those 2 to start doing stuff?

[Andante]

hmmm interesting. it feels like its been forever. I'm kinda thinking fire is maf not gonna lie, but I don't have super confident reads elsewhere, I'd love to see what others say

[Andante]

I WANT ANDANTE TO COME HERE AND TALK

HI

[Andante]

Sorry I'm useless right now, I'll be deadweight for a few more days probably

[Andante]

enchant could be a revealed IC and I would not believe a single read he had

You want to say killing Mala is my sole decision alone?

You still trying to pin all blame on me. Nah.

VOTE: Ari

ok so I'm reading all this yelling at enchant for the hammer thing, but I mean, all of us wanted mala dead, like, I don't regret that? now we have the 2 day 1 "wagons" the lim went between penguin and mala, might be cool to flip hut too, but yeah, knowing mala is town and penguin is maf, it might be interesting to read day 1 where I was all "YEAH LET'S GO MALA" and see if anyone supported that without flipping their vote. idk just a thought

all this yelling at enchant for hammering makes no sense to me

idk I'm just dead right now, I'll be able to think more clearly later

[Andante]

i will be very impressed and slightly scared if ari is scum here

what about it would impress you? this is just going "WHY WOULD ENCHANT HAMMER?" which is super easy to do tbh, like if someone was strongly opposed to limming mala in the first place they could've said literally anything as we were voting. this wasn't some surprise wagon

[Andante]

who would you like to yeet SS?

An...dante?

you got a reason? Cause you sure seemed to like my mala lim idea eod1

[Andante]

im also not sure if i should be glad that SS is scumreading the person that i think it's most likely that im wrongly townreading, or if i should be concerned bc he is the person that i think it's second most likely that im wrongly townreading, and guiding people towards andante would prob be his plan here if scum

SS why andante?

you think you're wrongly TRing me? why?

[Andante]

Malakittens (6):

Andante, Gamma Emerald, Datisi, fireisredsir, Something_Smart, Enchant

With 11 alive, it took 6 to eliminate.

[/size][/area][/color]

I think there's a good chance all the masons and all the mafia are on this wagon because:

mala softed mason and.

(1) the mafia know mala isn't mafia
(2) the masons know mala isn't a mason

it would explain how fast the wagon moved because 2 informed groups both heavily incentivized to push her.

the reason why mafia + masons are both on the wagon and it's not vts+masons is because of the gamma nightkill

I think mafia knowing who they are on the wagon narrowed the mason pool for them to shoot in and they decided to shoot gamma.

i think fire being the one to call out mala for not having any possible partners and

not getting shot

is heavily scum indicative for him because if I was mafia and fire was town, he would be my first guess for being a mason as he called out mala for not being a mason. yet gamma was the one who was shot.

I'm following that reasoning, and that would confirm fire is mafia tbh, so if we flip fire here, and fire flips red, I'd say you're 100% correct and that's a very good observation, cause yeah that's a very sound reason for why it moved so quickly before deadline

[Andante]

i'm not sure i get the idea ari is putting out (the mafia voting mala thing) because my first instinct as mafia would be to not even get close to voting a mason soft for the chance they actually are a mason and i prematurely get shit for pushing a green flip, and i feel like it would be the same for at least some number of scum!players here?

wouldn't the instinct as mafia be to try and run up as many people possible to see who claims, as well as just see how people interact with one another? cause now mafia go back and look at how people interacted with gamma and bam, there's your other masons, like essentially all they had to do here was flip someone that wasn't really getting pushed, cause obv masons aren't gonna push a mason. this "my first instinct as mafia" thing from you makes like no sense

[Andante]

I townread fire early but they've kinda fallen off.

probably cause fire maf

[Andante]

SS why andante?

Both NK's have pushed her and I do not think scum figured out Gamma was mason

i think thats reasonable, my thought was that if im hunting in [andante, ss, enchant, hut], you were the main one of those who i would guess likely could have figured out gamma was mason, and i was unsure about a andante/enchant team, since i kinda doubted they would have

but i guess that you having a similar pool and a similar thought process except with the additional bit of info as to your own alignment, is probably kinda towny, altho id maybe expect you to be considering me more?

i still think killing gamma without being relatively confident that she was a mason is a weird choice tho? ig if andante really thought that gamma was tunneled on her (she wasn't really anymore, but andante might not realize that)

what are you even implying there at the end? I was concerned about gamma's tunnel on me? Gamma sheeped VP and had no clue why VP was SRing me. If I was scum here I'd kill Datisi n1 tbh

[Andante]

i probably should have read an SS scumgame before making assumptions about how he would play as scum and townreading him based on those assumptions

why is meta needed? SS is weakly pushing me. that alone should be thought of as a scumclaim

[Andante]

the only exception to that is andante, bc i think andante is unpredictable in what she latches onto in people's perceptions of her, and may have had a distorted view of how strongly gamma scumread her.

at what freaking point in this game was I ever concerned about GAMMA SRing me?? please quote it. quote the post that told you I was concerned about a Gamma SR on me.

[Andante]

you think you're wrongly TRing me? why?

at the time i posted that i did, mostly bc i felt like you made sense as a partner to george/enchant and i also thought that they were scum

now im not as sure on that and am somewhat compelled by the possibility of ss+hut

kinda think its one of those two pairings but i also kinda think i should try not to get too caught up in looking for pairings bc that backfired yesterday

and now that I'm here and talking you think I'm town again? so when I'm not here, we can throw sus my way, join SS in trying to make a wagon on me. but when I am here it's "oh well at the time I thought that.. now I don't!!"
Like, that post was literally from today.

VOTE: fireisredsir
I'm pretty sure this is maf

[Andante]

alright, caught up, uhh sorry if any of the takes are bad the like 2 pages of yelling at enchant for a hammer was just like, uhhh what? its been a long day. see yall tomorrow

[Andante]

i probably should have read an SS scumgame before making assumptions about how he would play as scum and townreading him based on those assumptions

why is meta needed? SS is weakly pushing me. that alone should be thought of as a scumclaim

???

???
"I need to read a SS scumgame before I can read him"
why is meta needed to read SS this game?

what's the ??? for?

[Andante]

probably with andante,

lmao right. cause you said I probably wasn't town, I asked you about it, then you went "oh yeah not scum" and not I'm back to being scum?

[Andante]

i know that this is a very foreign concept to you, but occasionally people think one thing at one point and then later their mind changes and they think a different thing

so every 12 hours your read on me just flips? it just depends on if I'm here/not here?

[Andante]

i probably should have read an SS scumgame before making assumptions about how he would play as scum and townreading him based on those assumptions

why is meta needed? SS is weakly pushing me. that alone should be thought of as a scumclaim

???

???
"I need to read a SS scumgame before I can read him"
why is meta needed to read SS this game?

what's the ??? for?

what is the "that" in 2078 referring to? because it reads like you're saying "s_s is weakly pushing me, and the fact that s_s is weakly pushing me should be thought of as a scumclaim from s_s"

and that doesn't make sense to me

I have no idea where I was going with that sencond part. I have a lot going on irl right now, I warned yall I was out of it before posting.
yalls regular andante content is probably back in like 24 hours though

[Andante]

andante, who else is scum besides fire and who are your townreads? (this can wait those 24 hours but i do want you to get back to me on this)

I'm not going to out where my reads stand, but fire maf makes the most sense with where my reads are

[Andante]

she's completely fallen off the map in terms of thread presence.

she pops in to make multi-posts, barely interacts with anyone

she's not being fluid, she's not trying to sort or figure the game out.

she got townread for audacity and she's decided to stick to it

I don't think she's trying to figure out who's bad for the last few days

right, so just cause I have absolutely no desire to be here makes me scum? I mean, I've BEEN interacting with people, Datisi is the only one who tries to talk to me when I'm here so that automatically makes him my partner? yet hut and dragons just don't really post anything in general, but who cares? like, I'm still here giving thee game the best attention I can give it. It's literally not my fault the only people giving content between my postings are fire and datisi. I SR fire. Mala didn't post much at all and was town, so obviously I'm hesitant to go back to my hut SR, but yeah, I'm not sure why all of a sudden it's this huge thing that I'm not posting? I literally told yall I was out of it (I'm better now) I'm also just enjoying summer, so yeah.. not sure what else is wanted from me? until Hut starts doing literally anything, SS starts doing anything but this weak push on me, it's like, whatever my reads aren't really changing. As it stands I do not see a single world in which fire is town here, but guess my thoughts don't matter if I'm not here 24/7??

[Andante]

1. It's that when she's here she can't wait to exit the thread. I think town!andante has issues logging off whereas scum!andante basically can't wait to say "bye" to the thread.

I'm not going to comment about irl availability but I have doubts she is literally unable to come post, I strongly feel that she simply does not want to come post.

I mean, there's literally only so much I CAN post, like, this game is currently very low activity, and there's almost nothing new between my visits.

Lets see, you're referring to quite literally just like 3ish days of me barely being here, I wonder if there's reasons every single thought of mine isn't in this thread this game? I mean, if you want to actually talk, I'm down, but again with half the people here doing nothing, there's nothing to discuss.

Yeah wanna talk IRL? well the 13th my friend said he'd meet me at the park... didn't... it was kinda sad, then I have people who won't leave me alone, then that basically just left me sad, but I saw friend today so we good!!! I'm LOVING this summer thing!! like, research is over, I am freeeee, so.. sorry I literally can't be here 24/7, but deadlines are like 14 IRL days. And if I sit here spamming thoughts it'll just annoy yall more than literally anything else. if you want me to comment on everything you say, I'd be more than happy to. I think the good majority of your posts haven't been really AI, and haven't really been solvey, so I find it interesting how when I'm suddenly out of it, and want nothing to do with mafia, all of a sudden that makes me maf?

By what you said wouldn't the fact I kept posting literally make me town? I said I didn't wanna be here, but literally went back and read/commented anyways? "Town andante can't log off" isn't that what happened? I could've just went "prod dodging" idk, I'm not going at it. I'll yeet fire/SS here, I have no problems going either way, SS's push on me is like so weak and literally just like "heyy yall could join this" and he's not actually trying to push/case me, idk. would love more voices...

[Andante]

a. if she's town then scum have been framing her with nightkills for 2 nights straight

how am I even framed? scum literally just killed talkative people with high odds of being masons that weren't SRed? it's not framing to do that?

[Andante]

bleh 2185 is too long. that's enough efforting for today... unless hut shows up. hut I want your SRs, who do you think is maf?

[Andante]

hmmm ari is probably town

[Andante]

SS's push on me is like so weak and literally just like "heyy yall could join this" and he's not actually trying to push/case me, idk. would love more voices...

...do you want me to post "Both of the NK'd players scumread Andante" 50 times? or like what more are you looking for? I stated my case, I made my vote, there's nothing left to do.

You could make a counterargument. Gamma and VPB were not the most townread, nor the most talkative. (Well, VPB might have been the most talkative, but that doesn't inherently make one a threat to the scumteam.) They might have had higher odds of being masons, but what makes you say that?

that's the only reason I'm maf?
Right, let me make a counter argument for the dead people... I'm just not maf? that simple

[Andante]

hmmm ari is probably town

I think scum ari would take more of the approach SS is here "both dead people called you maf"

like, why wouldn't I leave them alive? their pushes on me were going no where, I can just lean into that and flood the thread with the nonsense. pretty easy

[Andante]

Right, let me make a counter argument for the dead people... I'm just not maf? that simple

That's... not a counterargument.

Ahh my bad. @VP and @Gamma can yall clarify your argument I'm supposed to counter? Oh wait... they're dead...

Cause idk why you're expecting me to have a counter to "why did the 2 people who SR you die" like idk? I'm not maf, can't speak for maf

[Andante]

a. if she's town then scum have been framing her with nightkills for 2 nights straight

how am I even framed? scum literally just killed talkative people with high odds of being masons that weren't SRed? it's not framing to do that?

literally what is there to expand on?

[Andante]

hmmm ari is probably town

okay

who else are your townreads?

why'd you only now say you'd be fine killing s_s?

hi!! sorry!!! not ignoring!! I mean, I'm trying to keep my SRs to 1 or 2 people, I'm not trying to narrow down possible masons, like, yeah, thus. I SR fire, I'm good with a fire lim. There was talk of "I sr SS" and I wanted to be like "yeah I'm not thinking he's town" just so it's not like "hmmm no one SRs him??" like yeah no, he literally won't try to give a definite read on fire? idk, I've voiced the important thoughts, not sure the rest are important.

NOT IGNORING YOU!!!

[Andante]

yall are funny!! hahahaha

[Andante]

the only person i would do the "they townread s_s and i think they're town, so i'm townreading s_s with zero questions asked" with is lilith

ooh you should do that with me!! if I tell you SS is town just sheep me. no questions asked!! He *could* be town here, but I still question his motives for pushing me so ehhh not TRing him!!

[Andante]

Sheeping Andante no questions asked... flawless plan tbh, could never go wrong

[Andante]

Sheeping Andante no questions asked... flawless plan tbh, could never go wrong

this is the third time i'm asking you to tell me your townreads and i am wondering why do you love making it so incredibly difficult to actually work with you

I don't have strong townreads?
Ari is gut town, I think you're town, I used to town lean SS, but now this pushing me stuff is wild so idk, doubts there, Implosion... I go back and forth on
and no one else talks so yeah

[Andante]

Sheeping Andante no questions asked... flawless plan tbh, could never go wrong

shoulda done it d1

SO I WAS RIGHT ON IMPOSION MAF D1???

[Andante]

He *could* be town here, but I still question his motives for pushing me so ehhh not TRing him!!

Here's a question, how does my push on you here compare to my push on you in PYP? Not intended to be leading, I'm genuinely not sure how similar it is externally (obviously internally it was much different as it was a big show there) and I'm curious to hear what you think.

I don't even remember you pushing me in PYP tbh, but here it's like the only thing you're actually doing, and it's a weak attempt at a push, it's not like "ANDANTE MAF!!" It's just like "ehh possibly maf" and you're like hoping someone else runs with the idea?

[Andante]

Sheeping Andante no questions asked... flawless plan tbh, could never go wrong

shoulda done it d1

SO I WAS RIGHT ON IMPOSION MAF D1???

you've called me mafia and town each probably half a dozen times throughout this game. As a result, we can conclude not only is it definitely correct to sheep you without asking questions, it's correct to do so at least half a dozen times during the course of the game.

hahahhaa if that happened... town insta loses cause I vote so fast tbh

[Andante]

Andante, what would be your own opinion of your scumgame? What kinds of things do you have trouble replicating/how do you approach games/etc?

my scumgame... hahhaaha that's a good one, that is definitely going to be heavily influenced by some other variables, my town game is just so random like, honestly, this could probably be my scumgame here, if fire is town, this is going to be like an exact replica of scum!andante tbh, but I'm not scum so that's kinda an issue, yeah idk, I'm not the best to talk about what scum!me can do lol but I either have an amazing scumgame or it's just bad, or... somewhere in between.


idk my struggle here is I'm stuck on a few reads so it's like, yeah fire maf, but then the partner? most likely in hut/Dragons, but idk which and uhh yeah I'm trying to just take more of a back seat for the moment but yall keep wanting my reads, like, I'm unsure. mala being town kinda just threw me like, idk, I was pretty certain mala was maf

[Andante]

i don't remember ari supposedly having a strong bop on you, if she even does, so what was that question actually supposed to accomplish?

I want to get a better understanding of why you're disagreeing with her read, since she seems pretty confident in it.

she is also very confident in the team being andante/datisi, ask me why i disagree with that one

non-snarky answer is that the only reason for town!s_s here i can accept as actually valid is "s_s wouldn't try to do the weird voting stuff on d1 as scum"

and that one thing is only going to get you so far when everyone else has better reasons to be town, and when i feel like your overall play fits as scum here too

tbh I think the only reason she thinks the team is me/datisi is cause you and I have just been the main 2 talking here, and you've basically been the only one I've been interacting with, cause yeah... no one else is around
(I know this is like entirely unrelated to wht you just said, but I had the thought)

[Andante]

I don't even remember you pushing me in PYP tbh, but here it's like the only thing you're actually doing, and it's a weak attempt at a push, it's not like "ANDANTE MAF!!" It's just like "ehh possibly maf" and you're like hoping someone else runs with the idea?

ANDANTE MAF!!

better?

perfect!

[Andante]

but like, for real, that's your level of confidence I'm maf here? and you're that confident solely cause of the night kills?

[Andante]

That number is dependent on a lot of factors that there's no reason to share. I have a high degree of confidence that you are the best person to kill today.

hmm but isn't it better to kill mafia?

[Andante]

No. I meant in general, not in this specific game.

what? you said Ari's read on you wasn't great, what's the specific part that wasn't great?

VOTE: SS

[Andante]

VOTE: andante

what? so what happens after I flip green?

[Andante]

VOTE: Andante

Okay

you're calling me town and you're voting me? like what? I don't agree with this wagon on me

[Andante]

so we’re not really doing anything and just settling on a lim on me, for literally what reason? what part about my actions here scream mafia? I guess it’s clear now so whatever, I’m not mason, and literally through my play here I was TRYING to find maf and actually bait a kill.
If Datisi isn’t mason he’s literally maf, and SS was my read for masons with Datisi, but I’m not so sold on that anymore.

So what this is the “most antitown thing I can do here” but this game is having just about nothing happen, and yall are just gonna shrug, lim me, another mason will die, and yeah. It’s getting so freaking frustrating when I’m being voted for 0 reason and all I was trying to do was help town. fire hard claimed not mason earlier with mala, literally why I was like “yeah fire works”

if we’re not gonna play, I’m not gonna silently dance around this mason thing anymore, cause it’s getting us freaking no where.
Yall wanna know why I was stuggling to out reads? that’s literally it. whoever rolled mason isn’t stepping up to lead, and if I was right on SS/Datisi, they’re doing a freaking terrible job at this “leading” thing

[Andante]

If Datisi isn’t mason he’s literally maf

Why is this?

Maf is mason hunting, they want to kill the towniest people/leaders. Datisi has been “leading” this entire game, why would scum actually WANT to kill VP over Datisi? I’m town, VP was just gonna tunnel a town and be noise, Datisi is a “voice of reason” you can’t tell me you’re not questioning why Datisi hasn’t died, yet has been “consensus TR” since the freaking start of the game, but whatever you think I’m maf, so maybe you’re not questioning why we still have Datisi alive, cause I’m “for sure maf” and thus, nothing I say is logic, so I’ll flip town, the. we completely ignore the valid thoughts I had

[Andante]

SS was my read for masons with Datisi

you thought i parked my vote on my mason partner and called him my top scumread for a few irl days??

that’s when I doubted it, and lnow what I hate this. I’m freaking trying with what little effort I do have and I’m apparently maf for it, I became the leading wagon for 0 reason. so whatever

[Andante]

at this point masons not outing is only hurting us, but what do I freaking know, I’m the mafia being voted out

[Andante]

so now the plan is to just freaking mock me? (or whatever the word is)
yeah whatever

[Andante]

i think saying that i have been "leading" this game is objectively false and i'm trying to understand what you're trying to say

correct, no one is actually leading this game or doing absolutely much of anything, yes. but you have more posts than me, and like they're all been game related yeah? Strong voice here that's universally TRed, usually has good reads as town, and notice how like no one here is doing literally anything? maf kills the people who "lead" like, maf killed VP who was just gonna flood the thread with ANDANTE MAF, and why would you not want that? minus the "oh that means you're maf"

idk. I wish someone would like actually try and do... literally anything cause this stupid wagon on me?? SS is on it cause "meh sure andante could be maf" and he's legit doing nothing else

[Andante]

I'm not answering "what are your reads" every 2 seconds, maybe try asking SS for some actual thoughts on the game. just an idea

[Andante]

i did

he has none

so now i'm sorting you :')

Right, and it's gonna take me going "I'm not a mason" for you to consider me being town? like, SS has no reads? other than his weak push on me. that doesn't concern you at all?

[Andante]

Andante (3): Something_Smart, Datisi, Enchant

your vote is on me. "I was once voting him" means he did something you found towny. or I did something extremely scummy, so what was it? I know you don't flip your vote 50 million times like me, so what was it? what caused your vote to move to me?

[Andante]

"I was once voting him" means he did something you found towny.

?????????????????????????????????
no lol

ok, so you don't think he's towny, yet you followed his vote on to me? cause that makes perfect sense

[Andante]

Right, and it's gonna take me going "I'm not a mason" for you to consider me being town?

i don't even know what this means bc it was pretty obvious you're not a mason considering your interactions w gamma

I didn't think it was obvious I wasn't a mason? Gamma was just half pushing me, it didn't go anywhere, I thought it looked like good cover for "mason buddies"

[Andante]

I am very confident I am town here

[Andante]

This game just feels stuck, like, ok whatever I'm the scummiest person talking, what's new?

Dragons replaced Vulture, a slot that already didn't have much, and Dragons just had the initial catch up posts, and after that basically been V/LA, I get it's a wedding, but like, that slot has done basically nothing
hutmeil refuses to do anything unless directly asked
implosion shows up every 48 hours, says a few things then leaves
Enchant is Enchant
SS is not doing anything but assuming I'm guilty till proven innocent

that just leaves Datisi and Ari, and well, statistically speking there's probably a maf in them cause maf usually has someone active, but like, I'd honestly rather leave those 2 around just cause this game will be dead

oh I forgot about fire!!

umm I'm a little surprised by how fast it went from "fire wagon!!" to not a wagon anymore, like, yeah thinking about this one it feels odd, cause it was a "strong wagon" with people going "yeah I'll vote, I just don't wanna end day 7 days early" then those people proceed to lurk for 7 days...

idk, I've tried my best and if people don't wanna play, we wanna sit at this stalemate, and just continue to do nothing, whatever. "I read andante's meta, and idk" right cause my scum range varies a whole freaking lot, but if you think scum me continues to sit here like "yo we doing anything" whatever... vote me out, have a mason die tonight, 7 alive tomorrow, yall have another mislim, and if you wanna vote out someone who's like always here, have fun with the dead village tomorrow

it's just frusrating when the only people talking at you are the ones like "yeah you're maf" whatever...

"andante only changed a lot when votes went her way" yeah cause those 3 days IRL were a lot and yall literally voted me FOR NOT BEING HERE and now all of a sudden I'm conf scum? lmao whatever. that like sums up all my thoughts on this game. I can't wait for the "lol town!andante never does this" right... town andante usually has a TOWN OF PEOPLE to talk to. we have 9 alive, but you'd never guess that by just skimming the thread. whatever

[Andante]

LOL ok this literally has to be mafia

VOTE: hutmeil

if you lim me today, whatever, please listen to this 1 read tomorrow.

[Andante]

lol ok where to start...

Why wasn't I voting hut before? well, major reason for mala maf was her just doing nothing, she flipped town, so I was like, ok... ignore the people not doing anything, then hut literally pops in immediately after I was like "hut does nothing except when talked about" and hut showed up 10 minutes after I said that to comment on that?? like, hut isn't doing anything except talk about me

[Andante]

I am pretty tempted to vote her but I think I want to finish doing due diligence on some of her town games first.

you vote me in the next hour I'm literally self hammering

[Andante]

I mean, the ENTIRE conversation is "Andante maf" no one is considering literally anyone else. I'm trying my best here, and if my best results in all yall going "andante lock scum" it's just like, what's the freaking point of me trying?

[Andante]

VOTE: fireisred

[Andante]

Is this just gonna be 4 more days of looking at each other going "how much do you believe andante is scum" "I don't. how much do you think she's scum" back and forth... so then I flip town, and yall just shrug like "ehhh now what"

[Andante]

i feel like the "this person is complacent, therefore they're town" is more likely to be valid for fire than for andante? at least the vibe i got from loosely skimming invictus is that fire would be Real Efforting in a situation like this

while i can see scum!andante not giving a shit

I mean, I'm more confident in you being scum than fire, but not like I have options here tbh

and skimming a scum!ari game, I have more confidence in ari being town here tbh

[Andante]

while i can see scum!andante not giving a shit

you think I'm sitting here not giving a shit? not giving a shit woulf be showing up every 48 hours, saying 1 thing and leaving. cough cough hutmeil

[Andante]

literally only so much I CAN do... half this is just waiting for someone else to do something

[Andante]

SS has done literally nothing on D3 here except park a vote on me, go "ehhh not super confident in this" and call it a day


like, I genuinely don't care who the masons are,

people that are scummy: SS is probably #1, Datisi probably #2

[Andante]

why's Datisi mafia?

there is no way this is genuinely town him pushing me, he saw an opportunity where I was an easy push and ran with it

[Andante]

compared to your usual levels of engagement, even compared with the earlier in this game, yes this is absolutely not giving a shit

ah yes, my bad. I flipped maf in a 200p game, got busy with IRL. right. I still think I gave this game a dang good amount of attention, considering I tried hard for what? 2, 3 days there?
If yall wanna see not giving a shit, I'd be more than happy to show you what that looks like

VOTE: Andante

[Andante]

UNVOTE:

probs not a good idea to throw myself on e-1

[Andante]

but whatever. like, I'm literally trying my BEST HERE. This is literally THE BEST I can give, and clearly that aint good enough. whatever

[Andante]

um I was in the 200p game with you.

and it's over now so you have time now?

yeah, and Datisi is referring to me being "less active" as the sole freaking reason I'm scum here, like, hello... I HAVE BEEN HERE, whatever, this is getting annoying

[Andante]

I'm not even certain fire flips scum, but I do think his absence is scum indicative, in our PT he disappeared a lot, when not directly talked to, but idk, I hate this stupid push

[Andante]

maybe i'm just really bad at reading you

I mean, I don't really blame you, you literally just saw me try as hard as I could as a wolf. but it's more Datisi here, like, half the reason I SR him is solely cause his push on me is so freaking bad, like, HELLO. IGNORE ME FOR 2 SECONDS. WORK WITH ME TO....FIND A WOLF... it's literally not like anyone else is doing much of anything... might as well use the voices here. idk. I have low confidence day ends with a wolf flip

[Andante]

andante is obv town i'm assuming because they're 500 font in my readslist

i forgot why but maybe i can remember

Who's a wolf here? cause unless we can find someone, I'm dead

[Andante]

I don't think that how hard a player tries as mafia is necessarily directly tied to how hard they believe it would be optimal for them to try. Like, sure, maybe fire-scum should, or even could be tryharding more here, but like, does that mean he must be? I feel like this is the kind of gamestate that will incentivize scum to not try all that hard. And I feel like Andante is genuinely trying right now. Let me look at the one completed game I have with her actually it might be a useful comparison.

Like, I'm getting to the point I feel this lim is forced between fire and I. obv I'll pick fire over me any day, but like, I'm not sure. and then I keep going back to Datisi like, is this town!datisi tunneling me? but the push seems so bad to the point I don't think town him does this.. and SS just chilling with a vote on me like.. nah. he literally said he had low confidence I'm scum yet he's not doing anything

[Andante]

WORK WITH ME TO....FIND A WOLF.

it's funny because a page ago i asked you where i was going wrong in my push on you and you ignored me. and where did you try to work with me to find a wolf?

you're doing nothing but tunneling me and going "so what are your reads" IS IT NOT CLEAR IM NOT CONFIDENT?? Half the people here aren't doing anything, it's not like that helps me at all

[Andante]

essentially her saying "no, fuck you, this is me playing my best"

hahahaha I mean... yeah.. with this situation, this is the best I can do lol

[Andante]

i had a flash of this being town!andante and scum!implo and implo tmi-ing her alignment by saying "she's really trying" because i really struggle to see how he reads this ate as "genuinely trying"

I really think I'd just happily take an andante mislim in that scenario, it's not like I wouldn't be able to make that pivot.

I genuinely do not see scum!implosion defending me here. I mean, why would he not sheep Datisi.. Something_Smart.. like, he could so easily get away with voting me here

[Andante]

i'm willing to discuss things with you if you want. you haven't presented them.

yeah see, I don't care enough to lay out my "possible theories"
I've BEEN saying SS isn't doing anything... Voted me... said he had no confidence I'm a wolf, and left it at that

[Andante]

i had a flash of this being town!andante and scum!implo and implo tmi-ing her alignment by saying "she's really trying" because i really struggle to see how he reads this ate as "genuinely trying"

I really think I'd just happily take an andante mislim in that scenario, it's not like I wouldn't be able to make that pivot.

I genuinely do not see scum!implosion defending me here. I mean, why would he not sheep Datisi.. Something_Smart.. like, he could so easily get away with voting me here

I think it is an awkward pivot considering how hard he townread you on d2 after you went full out defending Penguin

so I should SR implosion for TRing me for defending penguin?
I think I went down this imposion maf path before tbh and ended on him being town, but hmm yeah that would mean he can't just vote me, but considering he went back to that november 2021 game to find something, I'm really inclined to call him town lol

[Andante]

I've BEEN saying SS isn't doing anything... Voted me... said he had no confidence I'm a wolf, and left it at that

okay. do you think i should be engaging with that in any way? what do you think town!me does there?

what's your read on Something_Smart?

[Andante]

see, I struggle to see this scum!implosion world, yall have been the ones going "VP AND GAMMA DIED. THOSE 2 SRED ANDANTE" like, idk, yall killed them just to set me up or something? like, all theyd be doing here is spamming that I'm maf, and I think that was the mistake, but then like, maybe not.. cause me being limmed goes right with the plan. idk. I thought VP was scum day 1, trying to push me and push me to get me to claim mason, but whatever he's dead flipped town

[Andante]

maybe I just vote for fire ~_~ I dunno

I'm genuinely not even 100% sold on fire maf

[Andante]

I've BEEN saying SS isn't doing anything... Voted me... said he had no confidence I'm a wolf, and left it at that

okay. do you think i should be engaging with that in any way? what do you think town!me does there?

what's your read on Something_Smart?

scummy, ignoring the elephant in the room.

so SS is scummy, but I'm the one you wanna focus on?

wanna compromise here?
VOTE: Something_Smart

[Andante]

i'm not sure why fire posts this as scum while andante is his biggest counterwagon

I told yall, I'm not entirely sold on fire being maf, but if he's my counterwagon, I guess I'm pushing him till the end of time

[Andante]

maybe the scumteam is enchant/std and that's why nothing makes any sense (98% shitpost)

why can't hutmeil be maf?

[Andante]

I think this is possible as a scum post.

I've literally been telling yall... Datisi thought I would be an easy push. ran with it. just realized he's not actually going to get the votes to flip me, and is now trying to find another direction...

idk, SS is definitely my top SR right now though

[Andante]

hi whats up

didn't we have a conversation about this thing called beetlejuice...

[Andante]

I guess one motivation would be to make it look like andante could be partnered with him so that if he gets flipped first, she's still a viable mislim?

are you calling me and datisi maf here?

[Andante]

hey fire, what's your read on Something_Smart?

[Andante]

yo what the heck? I think that's e-1, you don't even want to announce that it's literally putting me on e-1?

Well I'm literally not mafia, and I've given this game 100% of the effort I can give it, definitely disappointing that trying my absolute best = getting limmed but whatever, I literally can't do much today participation wise, so I guess I'll be dead by tomorrow, I would seriously look into the reasons people have for voting me after my flip

I just literally can't do anything today, if I'm not dead by tomorrow I can probably effort then. I think I spent too long outside the past few days, cause this headache... I'm just going back to sleep. Definitely just dissapointing to see, I've tried my absolute BEST, and I'm being chopped. like, I die, then what? you're just gonna go lim fire, and then you're at lylo. whatever, not my problem. if you seriously think I'm the best chop at this point, town deserves to lose.

SS was literally just "I'm being impossible to read for a reason" right, and you're freaking voting me for no reason. I hope limming me the town helps your plan of "being a mystery"

[Andante]

Like even fire/andante don't seem to really want to lim the other person so like what's going on here?

I'd rather lim literally either of the 2 doing absolutely nothing.. not me who has given 100% this game...

[Andante]

Apathy is also a powerful drug, especially in a setup like this, where the only hard informational roles are basically landmines that we're trying to avoid running up because outing them loses the only value they give.

and I guarantee at least one of the 2 masons is doing absolutely nothing cause "I'm clear so it doesn't matter"

whatever, I'm just going back to bed, this isn't freaking worth my time at this point, cause I'm literally e-1, just waiting for enchant to show up and kill me

[Andante]

ok do you want to vote enchant then?

no, enchant is doing more than hutmeil and Something_Smart combined

[Andante]

like you say you're giving 100% effort

I LITERALLY AM

[Andante]

honestly if hut and/or SS are masons. they literally couldn't be MORE anti town right now, so no, I don't freaking care

[Andante]

Like even fire/andante don't seem to really want to lim the other person so like what's going on here?

im warming to the idea tbh

warming to the idea of voting me cause im e1? right...

[Andante]

Enchant not hammering is definitely + town for enchant. in KTANE enchant didn't hammer an e-1 even after I was asking them about it, and enchant was town there.

Fire again, is trying to justify a vote on me. I really believe fire is maf here

[Andante]

VOTE: fireisredsir

like, literally the 2nd time trying to justify a vote on me cause he knows I'm flipping town

[Andante]

Unpopular opinion.

BOTH Fire and Andante is Town somehow...?

I'm kinda thinking that, like I was chilling e-1 when people were discussing fire maf, so it feels like setting up to yeet me into fire tbh

VOTE: Datisi

I'm kinda feeling this

[Andante]

std whenever you're around next can you talk about why you tr SS?

I don't think people will ever lim SS here, so I'm just giving up there.

[Andante]

Andante (4): Something_Smart, Datisi, hutmeil, Aristeia

I do want to say, both mafia are in this. like, I'm pretty certain on that