Open 873: PYP: Anime Music & Memes - Game Over!

[Lukewarm]

Who the hell took so long to draft? lmao

VOTE: Bell

[Lukewarm]

Marci, no

[Lukewarm]

I just picked my favorite number meanwhile we got sweats trying to game the system

VOTE: Dunnstral

I did not even consider the option of picking a Much Too Big number to guarantee uniqueness strat, kinda wish I had

[Lukewarm]

Marci, no

1. how do i use the new site wtf im so scared

2. LISTEN I HAD TO THINK

The site seems to mostly run the same, it just *feels* wrong

I feel like being the first in the draft should have made it a lot easier, no?

[Lukewarm]

I also have 1 read.

@Notty

Spoiler:

if neighborizor made it all the way down to your draft pick, I do expect to be targeted. Thank you

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler: notty

Because everyone can then read our secrets

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler: notty

Turns out that was Marci's fault, but I think that she might be town, so I guess I can forgive her

[Lukewarm]

Spoiler: notty

I think that she has been through enough exposure therapy with baja blast, that that might not be a good indicator anymore.

I was thinking that the amount of STRESS that she had in post 19 felt like she did not have teammates that she could sheep when it came to making her draft choice.

[Lukewarm]

You are just selling the product I made with a different label attached

I would argue that there is a pretty sizable distinction between a low<->high meter, and a 360 degree wheel.

Unless your meters are undisclosed tauruses? Can you tick over the top of your meters and flip to the other side?

[Lukewarm]

[Lukewarm]

Ages ago I'm pretty sure?

ninja-
it was more a joke that I typically fit under the description for bear lol

That was not intentional lol.

I thought it worked best if the one on the far right was the left over one, and then I gave LLD the girl of the two on the left

[Lukewarm]

Luke

, what do you think about the townvibes you're getting?

Do you mean, how do I feel about the people who said they think I am town?

It is early enough that I am assuming all reads are pretty weak.

I was a little surprised to see LLD's read on me as it happened, because she had not interacted with me at all, so my gut reaction to LLD's post was to ask why, before remembering that she never explains her town reads, so deleted the post lol. I don't really have a read on LLD yet

Notty and I had enough interactions with our Super Secret Hood that I could understand an early read on me, and I would call him somewhat townie too. I liked that his first read also turned out to be Marci.

[Lukewarm]

i know you can't play like you played in that other game because i will bring righteous fury but you feel weird

I feel maybe a bit weird because I know this game will be difficult and leading with inferences is all I've got at the moment. It does invigorate me way more than meters however

I think that unwnd is trying to move his needle on his own alignment meter. Pre-anticipating this being a harder game then it already is.

Spoiler:

unwnd if you do a readslist and everyone doesnt have one of those I'm autovoting you

Refer to above meter for any concerns

He is out here telling us what he is doing smh.

[Lukewarm]

There is a weird tension between Ydra and unwnd.

I have played two games with both Ydra and Unwnd in them before, and they also had a weird tension between them, But the tension here is ~different~

Like, in both of the other ones Ydra leaned REAL hard into it, and she was scum both times, and she isn't doing that here. I think that Ydra can have one (1) townie point.

[Lukewarm]

<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">You called them boring instead of obvious frozen scum.<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">

<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">I looked at ten separate intros in prior games and there was only one instance of that awkward circlejerk and even then it was like this weird half mast? But multiple instances of town doing it in a similar capacity, as well as one instance of taly complaining about RVS which they then proceeded to do without any prompting or mention from me<br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);"><br style="color: rgb(204, 204, 204);">But yeah, frozen scum

sharp tune change from "you're not really scum" to agreeing with "yeah, frozen scum"

- vicky

I am fairly certain that that was sarcasm, and he was saying that you are *not* frozen scum

[Lukewarm]

Luke what's your KT read

I just got to his entrance, so I am kinda looking to see if he has said more since then.

Main thing I noticed was that in their first post they said that they still did not understand the mechanics, and then the moment they were questioned on that they changed it to not having known the mechanics at the time of making their number pick, but have since read the mechanic, which was odd.

[Lukewarm]

Bell how many townreads do you have?

Like 3, vaguely.
Peta maybe sort of. LLD maybe sort of.
I forgot who the third one was. Luke kind of, but kind of not.

Gives easy townread to amazing scum players for doing nothing
No comment about obvtown cephrir

Ceph thinks I am an amazing scum player *blushes*

Sidenote, I am liking the vibes from Ceph so far.

[Lukewarm]

well i'm posting memes anime or not

STD, I am disappointed. When I saw you asking about memes, I was really expecting to see this gem again

Spoiler:

[Lukewarm]

I have a problem... I have caught up, and I did not find a scum read :/

Trendy choices seem to be Notty and Taly.

I kinda think Notty is town? I liked that he appeared to stop and do some meta skims when he saw something that pinged him. It was well telegraphed too, like he voted in 82, made a comment about meta diving in 109, then largely disappeared from the thread for ~20 mins, before coming back with a new take on Taly in 122. That 20 min thread break would be an impressive touch if faked.

I am having a hard time sorting Taly, just because every post she makes seems to either misunderstand the post that is directed at her, or she is responding to posts directed at other people. I am not sure how to sort constant misunderstandings tbh.

I would request LLD and/or Peta to solve the game for me please.

@Peta, why are you voting Dunn?

[Lukewarm]

I guess the biggest thing I did not like at this point was the course correct when questioned from VOTE: Kingtroll

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm you should be very scared because I am not currently townreading you

Its okay, we all have our bad days. I'll learn to forgive you one day

[Lukewarm]

Oh.

When you said, not town reading me, I kinda thought you meant you did not have a read on me at all. I did not realize that you were saying you had scum read on me.

[Lukewarm]

I have a problem... I have caught up, and I did not find a scum read :/

Trendy choices seem to be Notty and Taly.

I kinda think Notty is town? I liked that he appeared to stop and do some meta skims when he saw something that pinged him. It was well telegraphed too, like he voted in 82, made a comment about meta diving in 109, then largely disappeared from the thread for ~20 mins, before coming back with a new take on Taly in 122. That 20 min thread break would be an impressive touch if faked.

I am having a hard time sorting Taly, just because every post she makes seems to either misunderstand the post that is directed at her, or she is responding to posts directed at other people. I am not sure how to sort constant misunderstandings tbh.

I would request LLD and/or Peta to solve the game for me please.

@Peta, why are you voting Dunn?

Most egregious line in the game coming from a -you- perspective and just in general

LLD and Peta are the two people on this player list who I most respect their reads, and therefore I am hoping to get more reads from them for me to see if I agree with them.

[Lukewarm]

I have a problem... I have caught up, and I did not find a scum read :/

Trendy choices seem to be Notty and Taly.

I kinda think Notty is town? I liked that he appeared to stop and do some meta skims when he saw something that pinged him. It was well telegraphed too, like he voted in 82, made a comment about meta diving in 109, then largely disappeared from the thread for ~20 mins, before coming back with a new take on Taly in 122. That 20 min thread break would be an impressive touch if faked.

I am having a hard time sorting Taly, just because every post she makes seems to either misunderstand the post that is directed at her, or she is responding to posts directed at other people. I am not sure how to sort constant misunderstandings tbh.

I would request LLD and/or Peta to solve the game for me please.

@Peta, why are you voting Dunn?

Surely even if scum he really did the meta. Of course that would require a few minutes

My assumption was that if he was scum, he would not do meta work for an excuse to move a vote this early in the game. So, seeing evidence that the meta work happened (the timing) makes me think he is more likely to be town.

I guess scum who did the meta work is an option given the timing, but seems like wasted effort for some

[Lukewarm]

I actually agree with unwnd that neither one of them has done anything out of range of scum whatsoever

Oh. I don't currently have a town read on either of them.

LLD is null, and I did kinda like that Peta both established a list of people that he could default to scum reading, and then immediately proceeded to vote three people not on that list.

[Lukewarm]

It seem to me that you think that I was saying that I wanted to just sheep them to eternity, when what I was saying was that I wanted to see their thoughts on the game. To help me form my thoughts, both on them, and on who ever they have thoughts on.

[Lukewarm]

Like, I said that. Saw that LLD was voting Notty and that Peta was voting Dunn, and then proceeded to vote someone outside of their votes.

I was not saying I was just gonna sheep them

[Lukewarm]

I have a problem... I have caught up, and I did not find a scum read :/

Trendy choices seem to be Notty and Taly.

I kinda think Notty is town? I liked that he appeared to stop and do some meta skims when he saw something that pinged him. It was well telegraphed too, like he voted in 82, made a comment about meta diving in 109, then largely disappeared from the thread for ~20 mins, before coming back with a new take on Taly in 122. That 20 min thread break would be an impressive touch if faked.

I am having a hard time sorting Taly, just because every post she makes seems to either misunderstand the post that is directed at her, or she is responding to posts directed at other people. I am not sure how to sort constant misunderstandings tbh.

I would request LLD and/or Peta to solve the game for me please.

@Peta, why are you voting Dunn?

Surely even if scum he really did the meta. Of course that would require a few minutes

My assumption was that if he was scum, he would not do meta work for an excuse to move a vote this early in the game. So, seeing evidence that the meta work happened (the timing) makes me think he is more likely to be town.

I guess scum who did the meta work is an option given the timing, but seems like wasted effort for some

"An excuse to move a vote" is far from the reason I would think of

What is the reason you see then?

[Lukewarm]

There has been times where I've joined games with you (Bloodstained/Isekai come to mind) where I have an overzealous take and it dissolves but yeah it's gonna take a lot this time around. This isn't me waving 'hey Luke look at how many times I've townread you correctly so I should know' either.

I've been penchant on just speaking my mind with less shifty wait-and-see as of late so I'm just gonna try and lay out what I exactly saw and let the masses chew on it:

Your approach to the game feels bespoken from just responding to what interests you. You had a small interaction with notty back there but I don't feel like I got anything out of it. My meter on you was a bit of a face-check in some regard, because I think that you are a very reactionary player. Maybe even a little sensitive. This is why you begrudgingly accept when I go 'I guess Luke is town this game' but it's more than that. I feel you're quite receptive too, which is not entirely similar to reaction. You're receptive in the manner you see something going on and your first response is 'ok, here's what I think is going on here and my thoughts add to it.' Then you start forming your own conclusions assuredly and I see those fervent somewhat-walls that make me go 'ok Lukewarm is actually thinking about this game and not just positing information for the sake of thread responsibility.' Your responsibilities in that regard come naturally, but here they don't seem that way.

I'I'm getting a lot of pick-and-choose with what you respond to. When you mentioned Peta/LLD at the bottom of your post I felt it didn't align at all and didn't look like that was something you would mention as town.

ngl, I am having a hard time parsing exactly what you are saying her in the big paragraph.

But for the last section about Peta/LLD, you are kinda right that mentioning the two of them did not flow out of anything that I have engaged with in this game.

I hit the point where I was fully caught up, and I did not have a solid scum ping that I felt really good about, so I did not have a bone to chase down. I feel you are describing looking for the version of me after I have a strong scum read. My next thought when I was caught up, and not sure who to push, was to wonder who Peta and LLD were scum reading. I looked at LLD and she appeared to have a joke vote down on Notty because he posted a mudkip video. Then I looked at Peta, and I noticed that he was voting outside of his original list of names that he opened with, which made me curious. But there was no reason given.

So I mentioned them, because I thought "I wonder who LLD and Peta think are scum" and when I opened up their isos I did not find anything that really helped me find a place to focus. They did not have a scum read that I really agreed with, or anything that sparked a ping of my own. So I was trying to urge thoughts out of them.

[Lukewarm]

You son of a bitch

[Lukewarm]

That was at notty lol

[Lukewarm]

Making a cheeky 'hey can I sheep you' comment just feels contradictory to my own perception of you. You're far more openness and not very subtle most of the time. Not bad things because you have a ton of subtle people with coded language participating in this game so the first thing I would personally want to do is figure out your alignment so I'm not just wading through my own uncertainties. In that regard, why don't you have any at all? Your response to me doesn't tell me what you're thinking about, just why you did it

During this interaction, I have been thinking that you seem more likely to be town for it. I don't think of myself as an easy target, especially after several other people had started voicing town reads on me. So I don't feel like I am a convenient place to go. You seem reading my posts really closely for possible alignment indicators, when if you were scum I would be a fairly easy person to scum read. Both because it is common, and because of your history of confidently declaring me town in our past games. IF you were just trying to get me to town read you, it seems like you could just imitate that. Given fact that in our last game you repped in an immediately declared a read on me. I also know that you can be town and think that I am scum, because you have done that before, but I kind of expect you to be able to get it right in the end. So I was trying to help you see me as town, by explaining what looked like you misunderstanding what I was saying and why.

I feel like I have been pretty vocal with my reads so I am not really sure if you mean before this conversation, or just this one.

[Lukewarm]

... okay :/

Now I guess I just gotta find scum before the end of the day to prove myself

[Lukewarm]

Wait

Did we get new emojis with the update?!

[Lukewarm]

But now I find his luke stuff so funny I want to see more of it!!

Rude

I dont know what the hell u guys are seeing in kingtroll but yall are blind af, the points yall are pushing on them seem perfectlly normal to me,

Marci, this is the point that bothered me. Not him calling himself town.

Spoiler:

Morning! Caught up, have no idea what any of you are talking about, I chose 48 because it was the first number I thought of and

I still do not know how this setup works!

His entrance said that he still had not figured out the set up, which is odd. I did not ping it as scummy, but did think that it would be odd to not have figured it out in the 5 days that we have been waiting.

Hello, I'm interested in expanding on your thought process for the number selection.
When you were asked to draft a number, did you not read the setup to understand what that meant, or did you not think too hard about your position in the draft, or something else?

But then Dunn started questioning them about it

To be completely honest, I had not yet read the setup by that point so I chose completely off the cuff!

I have since read the setup, however

. Promise.

And the moment there was a little bit of pressure about not knowing the set up, their answer changed.

It is that change in answer in response to pressure that pinged me.

[Lukewarm]

Bell, I feel like you are not meeting my expected quota of slots you have gone up to and just poked with a stick.

What are you doing? Are you that sure that Taly+Notty are scum? or?

[Lukewarm]

Ok I don't think it's doing anything anymore so: I had a moderate gut ping on notty (which still persists if I'm honest) and I decided it would be fun to go on the attack and get some reactions

For my next trick,
VOTE: Ydrasse

Ceph, if it was just a gut ping, why were you also trying to shoot down my reasons for thinking that he was more likely town?

And what reactions were you looking for? Do you feel like you got anything out of it?

[Lukewarm]

Ok I don't think it's doing anything anymore so: I had a moderate gut ping on notty (which still persists if I'm honest) and I decided it would be fun to go on the attack and get some reactions

For my next trick,
VOTE: Ydrasse

Ceph, if it was just a gut ping, why were you also trying to shoot down my reasons for thinking that he was more likely town?

And what reactions were you looking for? Do you feel like you got anything out of it?

Because I disagreed with your reasoning. I did think he was scum, but even if I didn't, I would have nitpicked your thoughts process there because I found it odd and thought it might even be scum indicative for you

Do you really think that on like page 3, scum!notty would think that the best use of his time to get town read would be to do some meta work on the Taly slot?

Like, that does not seem like the natural thought process on how to spend time for scum.

Is in thread actively talking to players -> decides to stop posting for 20 mins to do some meta on a slot, and then not even use it to make a push -> unvote from the slot that.

It just does not seem like realisitic scum motivated plan.

Compared to the town process

Sees something that they find suspicious about a player -> go skim that player's opening games to see if it was scum indicative -> realize that it is a play style difference -> unvote.

Yeah, the town process seems more likely to me then the scum one.

[Lukewarm]

I actually think that "scum him thought that just *saying* he was doing meta in order to get town read" was more likely then him actually dedicating his time to do that there. Which is why I went back and looked at that time to see if there really was a decrease in his posting leading up to him saying that he had done meta on them

[Lukewarm]

I have returned

[Lukewarm]

I have discovered that I am currently the topic of discussion lol

[Lukewarm]

I either am town with Lukewarm or he loses against me

So why the hell is he saying shit like 'I'm sorry you don't see it this game'

I'm not trying to lord over him or anything, it's just that if I were in a game and I know some guy can find me with 100% accuracy I'd be way more receptive towards him???

That might be your perception of your read rate on me, but I also know that you were really sure that I was scum for most of Day 1 in Bloodstained.

That game, it you did not town read me until the moment that I got a really strong scum read on Titus, and so when you were not town reading me yet this time, and *I* was aware that I had not found a big scum read yet, I just kinda shrug and assumed we'd get there eventually.

Also, when I first saw your meter on me, I opened up a new post and typed up a response multiple times before just deleting it because it was too early to get annoyed at the fact that you think you are the Luke-whisperer lol

[Lukewarm]

Okay, so Unwnd, can you tell me if you think Luke is the type who would specifically mimic an interaction to try and engender a townread?

i think it's not uncommon practice for people to repeat things they said as town when they're playing scum to fake a towntell, i'd have to check the original interaction to see how similar it is but if it's a copy i'd be more concerned, not less

They were certainly similar, in that I saw LLD make a town read, and then stopped myself from questioning her on it, because I know that she does not like to explain town reads.

They came about in slightly different scenarios, in HoTD, someone was getting into a 1v1 with her over the fact that she would not explain a town read, and I was trying to like... let them know that that is par for the course this time. While, in this game, Taly asked me what I thought about LLD giving me a town read, and I was saying that I was not really sure why she would at this point, but it was pointless to ask

[Lukewarm]

Ok I don't think it's doing anything anymore so: I had a moderate gut ping on notty (which still persists if I'm honest) and I decided it would be fun to go on the attack and get some reactions

For my next trick,
VOTE: Ydrasse

Ceph, if it was just a gut ping, why were you also trying to shoot down my reasons for thinking that he was more likely town?

And what reactions were you looking for? Do you feel like you got anything out of it?

Because I disagreed with your reasoning. I did think he was scum, but even if I didn't, I would have nitpicked your thoughts process there because I found it odd and thought it might even be scum indicative for you

Do you really think that on like page 3, scum!notty would think that the best use of his time to get town read would be to do some meta work on the Taly slot?

Like, that does not seem like the natural thought process on how to spend time for scum.

Is in thread actively talking to players -> decides to stop posting for 20 mins to do some meta on a slot, and then not even use it to make a push -> unvote from the slot that.

It just does not seem like realisitic scum motivated plan.

Compared to the town process

Sees something that they find suspicious about a player -> go skim that player's opening games to see if it was scum indicative -> realize that it is a play style difference -> unvote.

Yeah, the town process seems more likely to me then the scum one.

Like reading this interaction, Luke feels like he is saying things because they are what he is supposed to say, as opposed to approaching it more naturally.

In that ineraction, I was asking Ceph because I thought that Ceph's approach to Notty was kinda scummy, and I was trying to piece together if her really thought what he was saying. I was kind of thinking that he might just be shooting down reasons to town read Notty, to keep Notty under pressure. So I was trying to push into his stated reasons for doing it. I kinda dropped it though, because I liked his final comment in

I actually think that "scum him thought that just *saying* he was doing meta in order to get town read" was more likely then him actually dedicating his time to do that there. Which is why I went back and looked at that time to see if there really was a decrease in his posting leading up to him saying that he had done meta on them

I just severely disagree with this but I guess it's not very important

Kinda derailed my thinking. The way he said it felt like he really did weigh those options differently then me, regardless of his alignment, and therefore the difference between mine and his thinking on it stopped feeling AI

[Lukewarm]

Aye

I don't always find you immediately but I got high hopes I eventually will

Or I don't and you're scum

Ok.

When I flip town, I guess I can start pointing to this game to show you that you are not actually a Luke-whisperer.

It does not really feel like actually talking *to you* *about me* is actually going to help you find me thought. And I already feel like you are town. So it feels like my effort at this point is better served hunting down scum

[Lukewarm]

Yeah and I think personality absolutely matters when it comes to people. I think for old codgers like ourselves we're more represented by our will to win. Lukewarm is no slouch, but I don't think he finds joy in tricking people like that. He wants to just be townread on merit of being a good unassuming townie. He does extra when he's

actually

town however

I don't know if this will help you at all, but I am not really sure that this is a very accurate description of me. In general, I prefer to be scum over being town

[Lukewarm]

How to engage this PList without inferring about meta every 5 seconds

imagine everyone with their clothes off

or is that for being nervous

idk, do it anyway

I am going back to catch up, and I am surprised to see that *vibes turned up to 11* from LLD did not dissipate when she came back to the thread today, presumably less high then the day before.

Which is odd, but I also have no idea what that means for her alignment, because I have not seen *vibes turned up to 11* from either flavor of LLD.

[Lukewarm]

imo dunn is always going to talk about mechanical things because that's the player he is but it felt like a smokescreen for substance in this case. kingtroll fos from him also doesn't really click with me, could be making something out of a pretty nothing explanation for a number pick

Is there a reason why this is something that you feel about Dunn, but not saying that about me? I feel like I have said just as much about that from KingTroll as he has

[Lukewarm]

LLD is null, and I did kinda like that Peta both established a list of people that he could default to scum reading, and then immediately proceeded to vote three people not on that list.

this is a pretty wack thing to townlean me for actually

like what i'm so inflexible as scum that i make an opening like that and have to stick to it?? bizarre

That... does not feel like you understood what I was saying there.

I have tried three times to reword what I meant there, but I don't think that I am making it any more clear >.<

Tl;dr : it was not that you didnt stick with it, it is that it was dropped entirely. And also, it was not a strong thought more, "the only alignment thought I had had about you so far"

[Lukewarm]

He's just severely lacking in the department of personable traits. He's spent a ton of time skirting the surface of what's going on and that's it. His first post I called him out might've been an exaggeration but his responses to me also just gave me chills. That post he made where's like 'I'm sorry you don't see it this game' like in what world does such a personable and receptive guy like Lukewarm give such a off-beat answer? That's like, something fucking Bell would do. Do you get me here. He doesn't respond like that as town. If he saw I was dishing out some wordsalad on him he'd be ready with the fork and dig in. He didn't give a shit and moved on, only skirting the surface.

He's just..not like that as town.

Okay, so your feeling is that Luke is being skittish, because he's worried he'll give something away. He's staying on the edges of what is safe to say, and using that to dance away from danger and find his footing.

So in this worldview, Luke would have asked Peta and I about leading him as a way to gather two strong shields he could have pitch solving ideas at him, and then take the one he likes best and run with it and sink his teeth in there, having backup from a louder more aggressive player if he gets questioned on it.

And because he got rebuffed by you from that, he's been scrambling to find another entry point.

Is that about a summary?

Like, I hate to do self meta on this, but this is... not how I play scum. Like, "making up good scum cases on people I know are town" is like my one (1) strength as scum (other then just being a high post count player in general), so I really don't know why you would think that "Luke looks like he needs help coming up with scum case ideas from other players" is something that would make you think I was more likely to be scum, then when you thought I was town at the start of the game...

[Lukewarm]

Right, yeah. So... my experience is that Luke really is that affable you talk about, and that's very very very fair and normal.

My experience is also that... circumstantially, the previous game I played with Luke (HotD) Luke was much more subdued as town in terms of... energy.

So I'm wondering... circumstantially, how you're... taking that into account

god it's awkward to dance around this please for the love of god tell me you understand

Oh... um. This makes me feel icky. I think I would rather you miselim me then use this as an angle to call me town >.<

But also, you are not calling me town? So I really don't know what you are doing, but... yeah.

[Lukewarm]

Right, yeah. So... my experience is that Luke really is that affable you talk about, and that's very very very fair and normal.

My experience is also that... circumstantially, the previous game I played with Luke (HotD) Luke was much more subdued as town in terms of... energy.

So I'm wondering... circumstantially, how you're... taking that into account

I just went to go get a quotewall of our brief interaction in HotD, you should be able to spot the differences immediately:

Spoiler:

Did Lukewarm improve in the scum department? That's an unabashed 'I am town lukewarm extended my hand out to anyone as I feel unsure' post if I ever saw one

Did Lukewarm improve in the scum department?

Nice post Lukewarm reminds me when you're town

Did Lukewarm improve in the scum department? That's an unabashed 'I am town lukewarm extended my hand out to anyone as I feel unsure' post if I ever saw one

If you were to ask pooky, he would tell you that I am so amazingly perfect as scum that one must never town read me without a cop inno on me, so there

Scum you would've just taken the credit immediately instead of trying to reinstate yourself

Hmm yes I think I will keep this one

Scum you would've just taken the credit immediately instead of trying to reinstate yourself

Hmm yes I think I will keep this one

It is fairly frustrating that this is exactly how I picture you figuring you that I am town when you are town, but I also hate it

Dude, there are so many differences in those scenarios. Like, in that game, you repped in, and confidently, correctly, called me town, while simultaneously calling me bad at playing scum. And it PISSED ME OFF that *I* town read *you* for doing that. Like, your read on me annoyed me, and my read on you also annoyed me lol

This game, you vagued about not having a town read one me (which I incorrectly took to be a null read) and that evoked a completely different reaction from me. It neither pissed me off, nor made me think that you were town. So you just got a cheeky response from me. Once you made it clear that it was a full blown scum read, it changed the calculus, because there was a difference between you not yet having a read on me, and you being very convinced that I am scum. But me reaching out to you also did not seem to help. idk man

[Lukewarm]

For the record my read on you is the only thing keeping my tinfoil prediction a tinfoil prediction

I am curious, what is your tinfoil prediction?

[Lukewarm]

I mean it's hard to be 1:1 when emotions come into play

I don't hold people at the level of 'you must act this way at all times or else you're scum' because that's both soul-sucking and poor sport. He could be not feeling himself. He could be trying a new thing. Honestly, all he has to do is give some sort of inference on that level but he didn't. Reeks of guilty conscience

omg, it is werid to keep reading a back and forth about me.

I don't think that is help you at all, but I am not conciously trying anything new. I'm just here, and trying my best

and failing apparently

[Lukewarm]

I... think I need to stop focusing on the fact that unwnd thinks I am scum.

[Lukewarm]

Ydra, that is a pretty wild reads list, ngl

[Lukewarm]

I think that the two I am most interested in, are:

What has LLD done that makes her green instead of yellow for you?

And why is marci orange?

[Lukewarm]

For the record my read on you is the only thing keeping my tinfoil prediction a tinfoil prediction

I am curious, what is your tinfoil prediction?

I had this weird vibe with that ceph post prodding unwnd to work with lld and then lld immediately wanted to talk about you

The cascade was just so fucking weird

From the context of you saying your town read on me is keeping it tinfoil, it seems like that would mean your tinfoil was scum!ceph trying to get unwnd to work with scum!lld, to try and save scum!Luke?

Because, LLD trying to save me is *not* the vibe that I got from that conversation. During that conversation, she down graded her read on me from town to lean scum, and floated the idea of killing me. The vibe I got was that she was toying with the idea of building up to a trade of my death. "We kill who I want today, and we kill who you want tomorrow" or vice versa.

If it was coming from anyone other then LLD, I think that I would be calling for her head for the kind of positioning that she was doing wrt to unwnd and peta, but I have learned that thread manipulation is totally in town!lld's wheel house too. So, like I am paranoid that she is going that direction, but also don't even know if that makes her scum or not.

[Lukewarm]

I think I will go back and look at ceph trying to get unwnd to work with lld tho

[Lukewarm]

I'm gonna be blunt myself first:

Do you think I'm a sap who is easily pocketed? I'd like some sort of self-defense that you

wouldn't

just be offering your hand if it meant furthering scum wincon. There's a lot of social preference with your game here and I think you've explained it enough. I'm not discouraging you and I think everything you've said so far I can only respond 'fair enough' and 'that's reasonable'.

However, I think some healthy paranoia does people good. I'm surprised there isn't any sense of paranoia from you in regard to me (or elsewhere)

I know I shouldn't intrude but I'm wondering what it costs you to attempt to do the things she's suggesting and see if it feels right

This is a weird fucking post

[Lukewarm]

I was getting started doing isos before this conversation, and I just realized that it is like 1 am, and I have to work in the morning >.<

A reads list is coming soon(tm), but now I need the sleep

[Lukewarm]

I have been released from the prison of capitalism early for the day!

I will probably *be around* for the next *forseeable future* while I catch up and try to do a reads list

[Lukewarm]

also

luke

, my eyes glaze over when i read most of your posts, give me a TL;DR of your POV rn

taly

Why hello and how do you do too.

To be fair, I kinda end up skipping past most of your posts too, because I don't really find your posting style all that easy to engage with most of the time :/

My PoV of this game is kinda skewed by not liking getting pressured early, I find it hard to walk away when people really really think that I am scum, because I have an unstoppable desire to prove to them that they are wrong, and to point out why the reasons they think I am scum are wrong. And it warps my perspective, and now I need to stop doing that this game I think. I kinda want to do a reset, which was my plan with doing a reads list once I am caught up.

Outside of that, I spend some time out of thread wondering if I was going to end up a bartering chip used by LLD to gain thread control or not.

I was going to do isos before I did a reads list but, a *vibes* reads that I have atm:

I still think that Notty is town. I still think that unwnd is town. I still think that Marci is town, but that read is weakening because she seems to have largely faded into the back ground of the thread after the opening bits of the game

I kinda liked that Ydra's reads list was unique at least, but I also liked her response. I will also say that I *think* that this really low energy from her is more likely to come from her as town, just because I think she has been town every time I have encountered this flavor of Ydra (but I also have not done any homework on that)

-Bell I was leaning scum more for lack of slots proded, because he seemed to be playing it safe by almost exclusively poking at you and Notty, but even notty was wrapped up in a partner read with you -- but then i liked that he seemed to have a fairly similar reaction to LLD's reach out to Peta and Unwnd. Was going to look at him more when I did isos.

-Ceph has been dropping in my reads over time. I did not like his positioning around Notty, nor the way he walked away from it. I also think that his comment wrt to unwnd being hesitant to engage with LLD was weird, but I cannot figure out if it was weird in a way that means he is scum with LLD like notty said or not.

-You seem to be more *present* this game then I remember from Lost, where I had you in my "kill for being forgettable* pile.

Speaking of my *kill for being forgettable pile* KingTroll, STD, and GreyIce are all rounding out that space where I am struggling to remember much of anything that they have done this game outside of KingTrolls initial entrace, STD's meme posts, and GreyIce yelling for LLD to make him a sandwich.

[Lukewarm]

I hit send, and scrolled back up to realize that the original thing that was asked of me was a tldr

[Lukewarm]

Um

TL;DR: I feel like I got really sidetracked by the early pressure, and I am hoping to do a reset when I do isos. Paranoid about LLD's thread manipulation. followed by various gut reads from staring at the player list.

[Lukewarm]

luke

did you ever consider unwnd could be scum trying to push you

in case it was missed amongst all me memes

Yeah, but I landed on him more likely to be town for it. Hold on Ill grab a quote

[Lukewarm]

During this interaction, I have been thinking that you seem more likely to be town for it. I don't think of myself as an easy target, especially after several other people had started voicing town reads on me. So I don't feel like I am a convenient place to go. You seem reading my posts really closely for possible alignment indicators, when if you were scum I would be a fairly easy person to scum read. Both because it is common, and because of your history of confidently declaring me town in our past games. IF you were just trying to get me to town read you, it seems like you could just imitate that. Given fact that in our last game you repped in an immediately declared a read on me.

-- and it got me to town read you (is how that thought ended in my head, but it apparently did not make it to the post)

[Lukewarm]

Basically, at the time that unwnd started pushing me, I was being town read by quite a few people. And there is a history of me town reading him for town reading me.

So it seems like the easier path as scum would be to town read me there.

It seems *less* like that is a stance that makes sense now that more people are expressing doubt on me, where it seems easier for scum to see me as a target. But at the time that he started, it felt that way

[Lukewarm]

i get you think unwnd is town but you seem to have no doubt that you'll be able to point to this game to teach unwnd a lesson

that kinda has less to do with this game, and more to do with our past game history.

In multiple other games unwnd has town read me in ways that felt bad to be the reasons that he town read me, but he was also right in all of those game, so it kind of felt like those game were further making him think that the things that I dont think are true about my play are true, because he used them, and ended up with a right read. (even thought he has literally never played with me as scum either)

So at first when he seemed to have me more null, and less sure on my alignment I did kind of have a weird vindication that he felt unable to fall back to the ways he had said he was sorting me before. And now, I guess, even if he doesn't turn his read around on me, it will at least make him reevealuate his Lukewarm-meter

[Lukewarm]

For like a point of reference

Spoiler:

Scum you would've just taken the credit immediately instead of trying to reinstate yourself

Hmm yes I think I will keep this one

It is fairly frustrating that this is exactly how I picture you figuring you that I am town when you are town, but I also hate it

I don't like feeling like someone is giving me a town read on the basis that they think I would be bad as scum, when I think I am pretty decent. Not great, but decent.

Unwnd was probably the worst offender on this, like pretty blatantly said in every game we played in together x x

Anyways, this is exactly what I would expect from town unwnd

And no, I did not feel like he did this in the two games where I played against scum!unwnd, and no - I would not expect unwnd to know that I think of him this way, because while I saw it happening over and over with him, I don't think that I ever had confidence to call him out for it, because I did not really have very many scum games to my name at the time him and I had played together before.

[Lukewarm]

if he's town

Which I feel like he is?

[Lukewarm]

Look. Yes I think that he is town. But I have simultaneously been really annoyed by the way that he has approached reading me in the past, both in method and in certainty, but now that he is confidently wrong, I am also frustrated at being read wrong. Which makes this really weird place to be in.

Today, I was really trying to just move on and talk about basically anything else, but you just want to make me go back to talking about unwnd. And apparently that just gets more people to vote for me...

This has been a really fun game experience.

Maybe i will try to do those isos again later, but I think that I am done with this game for right now.

[Lukewarm]

I just don't get if you say 'I shouldn't pay attention to the unwnd stuff' and then you continue to post about it lol

I was moving on, and I was catching up and responding to something Taly said to me, and getting ready to do isos. But then he asked me directly, and I do not have the self control to not respond to questions with my name attached. Its a character flaw

[Lukewarm]

This part of playing with you has been frustrating in the past. I kind of feel like you being wrong *should* feel good, but this is also not good. idk man

[Lukewarm]

Anyways

VOTE: std

I feel like he has seen me floundering every time I have been in a discussion about you and me, and he just purposefully pulled me back into that conversation as soon as he saw me drifting away and getting into talking with Taly about the rest of the player list

I cannot think of the town reason to go "you know what I need, is luke to talk more about unwnd this game"

And it felt like he walked in with the goal of framing it that way, because me actually explaining why I think unwnd is town did not phase him and the push he was setting up

"You are acting like unwnd is town" "I am pretty sure that unwnd is town because X" "oh, well you are scum for thinking unwnd is town. Vote"

He did not even seem to care about my reason for thinking he was town, or stopping to gauge if I really feel this way

[Lukewarm]

I really am gonna walk away for a bit before trying to do isos I think

[Lukewarm]

i think you're being calculating and performative and that's why i think you're scum. i encourage people to look at your iso and determine for themselves if they agree or not. i would bring examples but i'm too busy being hysterical right now and can't bring myself to do it.

but an example is the "this makes my skin crawl" thing said to luke about his comment on peta and lld solving the game for him.

@Std, if you thought that the way that he approached me there "makes your skin crawl" - as you read it happening- why did you then end up with you best take being that I was tmi'ing him town?

And if you did not think that until recently, what made you look back at that portion of the game to result in this comment?

[Lukewarm]

I'm gonna need some receipts. Not that the trajectory isn't there, but I don't know where I went from "not sticking my neck out" to bell tier town. I also have been kinda following this weird lockstep thing that's been going on with peta and ceph and it's weirding me out it shows up here again.

What do you mean by the weird lockstep going on with Peta and Ceph. Like they have been doing it? Or that it is a repeated pattern for them by unwnd? or?

[Lukewarm]

What's weird is I'm townreading the whole wagon but also leaning town on unwnd and I'm not super sure how to reconcile that fact with the lack of a counterwagon?

If he is town, and most of his voters are town, why would scum be focused on building a counter wagon?

What are you struggling to reconcile about that game state vs your reads?

[Lukewarm]

Speaking of my *kill for being forgettable pile* KingTroll, STD, and GreyIce are all rounding out that space where I am struggling to remember much of anything that they have done this game outside of KingTrolls initial entrace, STD's meme posts, and GreyIce yelling for LLD to make him a sandwich.

this is real weak

greyice clearly didn't give two craps about the game, which for someone who is basically retired is a nulltell at worst

kingtroll to that point was behind in the game, so, like, of course he didn't do much. but i think since catching up he's been fine and tbh i buy the story about not reading/paying attention to the setup as a slightly disinvested townie, doesn't strike me as the type of player to fake something like that

beyond that it seems like defaulting to sort by post count rather than making actual inquiry into what people are doing

I think that you misunderstood the category. I have recently started doing this thing when I make reads lists where there is Town/Null/Scum/Forgettable categories. Forgettable is its own catergory that kinda exists outside of the town<->scum dynamic. I am differentiating that section out instead of leaving them in the null / null:scum areas, but that area is solidly in a "I would rather them die over people who are memorable yet still unsorted"

If I were to turn that actual post into a reads list, I would have had LLD null scum., Bell and Ceph scum lean, and no one in the scum read category, And those three in their own category off to the side.

(Also, I have yet to see a kingtroll post since his opening, and it was his entire lack of existance after that that put him into that category. I see now that he has made posts in a section of the game that I have not read yet, and need to get back to)

[Lukewarm]

Can you see it I wonder? Mmmm. Small oopsies

I feel like I am completely missing the point that you are trying to make here

[Lukewarm]

Oh no. I'm criticizing that when you made this list you forgot the central mechanic of the game. This is, after all, PYP.

Now I'm not going to expect a shoot-from-the-hip dgaf player to remember how the game works, but analytical players always do. Faking analysis though, well, there's a lot of interaction, and you can smell the Lukewarm wagon, but Dunnstral just isn't doing anything. So he has to slide down. And of course for a second you forgot it was PYP when you put it together.

I bet notscience sees it now. If you don't, check the #4 bear~

Ah.

Do you think that at this point in the game that Unwnd would be thinking of his scum reads in terms of how they mesh together as a team?

[Lukewarm]

It's so hard to ignore when your scumbuddies are playing scummy. It's like this constant thorn in your side. Do you call them out? Hope they improve? Try to pull a "you're frustrating but that's your playstyle"? Dump them on the bottom of the reads list and not say much? Where to put your buddies in your reads list is always the last thing you do unless you have a specific plan, and it's hard to make a specific plan with people not posting.

Yes, I do rather like this vote a lot.

And if you're focused so hard on finding town instead of finding scum, and are convinced that at least one of Luke and Dunn are town... well, man that might be a 50/50, but if my vote was floating in that region I'd at least be interested in chatting with Dunn quite a bit.

Okay, so I am not sure that I buy this as as much of a smoking gun as greyice is trying to sell, but I am liking that greyice has come tumbling out of the forgetable category with a very strong, novel read. Mapping back unwnds reads list to the original draft feels town motivated, and also a point I don't think that scum him would be that inclined to just know off the top of his head unless he was scum with exactly Dunn.

[Lukewarm]

she has 16 posts and is one of the more divergent players in the playerlist who would struggle to post as scum

Marci has definitly been falling off the radar, but I don't really think that "struggles to post as scum" is as true about her in general that people seem to think of her. I know that she froze in Tarot, but I actually think that that is the outlier, not the norm for her scum game, but a lot of people have walked away from Tarot with that impression of her.

Funny enough, I feel like I am normally in the position of telling people not to give her town passes for this reason, instead of the inverse lol

I don't really think that her getting disengaged from a game is particularly scum indicative for her, given our two hydra games, they both had full days where I was almost exclusively piloting our slot alone.

All in all, I think that Marci would be a null read for me if we exclude her page 1 posts that made me think she was town, but with that its a weak town lean I think.

[Lukewarm]

I actually find GrayIce’s take over explainy.
But I don’t really recall them being explainy as either alignment. So I dunno what to do with that, if anything. It does bother me though so I guess I lean scum on it.

I don't believe I have ever encountered GrayIce before, so no real point of reference. For me, it was more that they were happily flying under the radar, and then skyrocketed them selves into the spot light, when most scum players are kinda happy being under the radar

[Lukewarm]

i grow increasingly more okay with not listening to people below me in the draft but you dont see me complaining

Oh look, I think town marci came back to the thread lol

[Lukewarm]

Luke what’s your take on this?

The page that this question was asked on has me back to thinking that she is town

The level of confrontation she is bringing feels distinctly in line with town Marci imo

[Lukewarm]

While i drift to sleep let me do some freestyle rambles about my husband and his alignment.

greyice is a player everyolen should be afraid of because he is adeptly skilled at doing what he does. what he does is a very aggressive attack, good defensive understanding of his positional advantages and weaknesses and utilizing all tools on deck to ensure his wincons are played to.

essentially, he plays mafia like he plays a deckbuilder. reliable is best, replicatable is better and being passive gets you nowhere but a loss.

so it's hard to read him just on what he does because he might be building for a wincon that doesn't involve you having much time alive, or even showing off to you that he's scum.

so i choose to read the negative space around him.

like, if he has good logic, bonus. But what's that logic causing in a ripple efffect around him?

Well, pressuring Unwnd as a primary entry to the game while unwnd is the top wagon doesn't garner him much town cred if unwnd is scum, but loses him a lot if unwnd is town.

so not a bus, it's not svs

so then, what's the goal? if it's unwnd scum GI town, it's simple. He's found a read and is pushing it, correctly.

If both town, same thing but substitute "incorrectly".

But what if GreyICE is scum and Unwnd is town? what does greyice gain here?

he doesn't gain thread control, for sure

he's low on lots of player lists on read wise, so he could easily die from a missed shot

there's not a lot that is gained unless Unwnd was on the right track with Luke.

And this was a follow up to prevent a Luke elimination.

but even then, this is the 5th vote on the wagon? so it's not like he needed to do this to protect anyone really

infact, it almost feels like it would have been better for him to push on someone scummy, who would give some push back to him and let him be townread, but never die today.

Like a cephrir vote with confidence and good logical arguments for why he's scum would have been way more ideal for him as scum, so...

reading the negative space of what he didn't do he feels town?

not that i can be 100%, but that's how i've arrived at this read

thank you for listening to traumatized girl in the dark rambling up next is AHHHHH! but who WERE the real monsters? Staring Harvey Weinstein

The first three paragraphs of this made me questioning if the reason that I originally found greyice's case to be +town to be not valid for him as a player

But then the tail end of this ended up with me generally nodding along as I was reading your thoughts

Maybe I was right for the wrong reason? lol

[Lukewarm]

i grow increasingly more okay with not listening to people below me in the draft but you dont see me complaining

Oh look, I think town marci came back to the thread lol

is it just bcuz she’s confrontational?

like that doesn’t really .... say a lot i guess ai only annoyance to me

I feel like that if she was scum strarting to gather suspicion and votes, she would feel the need to do something to turn it around outside of being max confrontational with everyone suspecting her.

My view of Marci's internal monologue as scum is a constant refrain of "I CANT LET ME TEAM DOWN " -- and that pressure, to help her team, which does not exist in how she approaches playing town, I think would have forced her to take a different approach

[Lukewarm]

Apparently she is a pirate in her internal monologue lmao

[Lukewarm]

Even then that feels weak because Ceph is on the smallest wagon, Luke. And has posted since then.

So I don't detect a point at which he intends to go with the crowd.

Taly

His vote on me was quite literally following STD's vote onto me lmao

[Lukewarm]

Hmm

I don't know either of them enough to discern the significance. But it is a good note to ISO check there if there is time to deep dive.

LLD/Ceph
Marci/Ydra
Luke/unwnd/Dragons

Peta in loose association to any of these groups

Taly

Taly, I cannot for the life of me figure out what methodology was used to make these pairings, or what that criteria would need to be for peta to be able to loosely slot into any of them. Elaborate?

[Lukewarm]

I could see an argument that ydra and marci were hyping each other up and then ydra faded followed by marci I suppose?

I’m still not scumreading any of the last 3

What are your thoughts on STD?

[Lukewarm]

I don’t really understand the push on him

I could just have a soft spot for the memeing I suppose? I’m really confused about this whole dynamic between him and unwnd

Okay, well here are my thoughts. I got two things right now, which are his approach with me, and then his pivot onto unwnd, and my thoughts on the two are kinda linked.

Starting with me, I think that he started our dialogue already with the intent on calling me scum and voting me.

Our conversation started here

Spoiler:

luke

did you ever consider unwnd could be scum trying to push you

in case it was missed amongst all me memes

You can see that he was already setting up the idea that I was not considering scum unwnd, which ended up being the exact reason he cast his vote onto me.

Which, sure, if he were town with a suspicion that I was tmi'ing him, that could be visable in his initial approach to me, but what stands out to me is actually his responses to me. To answer his question, I spent quite a bit of time explaining why I thought that unwnd's push came from town unwnd

Spoiler:

luke

did you ever consider unwnd could be scum trying to push you

in case it was missed amongst all me memes

Yeah, but I landed on him more likely to be town for it. Hold on Ill grab a quote

During this interaction, I have been thinking that you seem more likely to be town for it. I don't think of myself as an easy target, especially after several other people had started voicing town reads on me. So I don't feel like I am a convenient place to go. You seem reading my posts really closely for possible alignment indicators, when if you were scum I would be a fairly easy person to scum read. Both because it is common, and because of your history of confidently declaring me town in our past games. IF you were just trying to get me to town read you, it seems like you could just imitate that. Given fact that in our last game you repped in an immediately declared a read on me.

-- and it got me to town read you (is how that thought ended in my head, but it apparently did not make it to the post)

Basically, at the time that unwnd started pushing me, I was being town read by quite a few people. And there is a history of me town reading him for town reading me.

So it seems like the easier path as scum would be to town read me there.

It seems *less* like that is a stance that makes sense now that more people are expressing doubt on me, where it seems easier for scum to see me as a target. But at the time that he started, it felt that way

But in response, he did not actually *engage* with any of that, to see if he bought my town read, to see if it makes sense if I was confidently town reading him in this scenario, or anything. All of which SHOULD matter, if he is trying to figure out if I am treating unwnd like he is town because I am tmi'ing him as town, or if I am treating him as town because I am reading him as town.

Instead of actually engageing with what I am saying to see if my read makes sense, he just keeps pushing forward the idea that he set up, which was "luke is treating unwnd as town, and is therfore scum"

Spoiler:

i get you think unwnd is town but you seem to have no doubt that you'll be able to point to this game to teach unwnd a lesson

if he's town

VOTE: lukewarm

And even as he does so, he is openly saying that it is a weak read, but it is where he is at at that point

my point is you almost act like you know that he is

i dunno it's not a great read

but it's also not a great look

----

Okay, that is his interaction with me, but then what caught my eye was when he turned on unwnd during their fight, he said this

i think you're being calculating and performative and that's why i think you're scum. i encourage people to look at your iso and determine for themselves if they agree or not. i would bring examples but i'm too busy being hysterical right now and can't bring myself to do it.

but an example is the "this makes my skin crawl" thing said to luke about his comment on peta and lld solving the game for him.

Unwnd made that post about me in post 308.
STD made his case against me as scum elading up to post 832.
STD and Unwnd get into it, and then
STD makes that post saying how bad unwnd's 308 post was so clearly bad and people should look back at it with post 943


That timeline does not make a lot of sense to me, if he really felt that way about unwnd's post when he read unwnds. If he felt like unwnds posts around posts 308 were showing him as "calculating and performative" and while reading those posts, they "made his skin crawl" why was he off focused on me with what he himself described as "it's not a great read." around 832? And conversely, if his case on me was the best scum ping that he had around post 832, what part of his fight with unwnd would make him suddenly *realize* that unwnd's posting in the 300s were so terrible?

It looked to me, like he was getting into it with unwnd, and felt the need to put a vote into it. And that was the first thing that he thought of as an angle to push unwnd. Not that it was a concern about unwnd that existed when he was reading the game prior to getting into that argument.

[Lukewarm]

This is a note for myself to go back to post 649+ when I get back on

[Lukewarm]

Really doubt Luke puts the effort into being fake that much.

...
Like... I am glad to no longer be scum read by you, but we are back to luke is town because he is bad at scum...

Spoiler:

There is no way for me to win with you :/

[Lukewarm]

It was something I noticed at the time but didn't really consider until we started interacting and I didn't really buy his interaction with me was genuine. It felt like he was careful with what he was saying instead of letting responses come in the moment.

Std, how is this different from "I did not consider that as scum indicative, until after I decided he was scum?"

[Lukewarm]

Re Taly- I actually think they're town in part because their contributions despite being thorough barely register with me. I may have unwarranted confidence after picking them out in Lost when basically no one else did, idk

I might not be the best person to ask, because I think that I have a pretty heavy playstyle clash with her. But something that I noticed as different between this game and Lost is that in Lost she seemed focused specific people, Im thinking in particular Johnny, Nancy, and Bell, which I think ended up being like "her pocket target #1" "her pocket target #2" and "the person she decided she needed to convince not to scum read her any more"

I don't actually think that she reached out to talk to me for the first time that game, until after I voted her, and that triggered it. Where as this game, she is reaching out in more directions.

gth, I would call her town just for the differences between this game and lost feels like it could be the difference in her trying to survive as scum vs feeling out the player list as town

[Lukewarm]

It's different

Thanks

[Lukewarm]

unwnd[4]: marcistar, Save The Dragons, Taly, GreyICE
marcistar[3]: Ydrasse, Lady Lambdadelta, Bell
Save The Dragons[3]: Lukewarm, petapan, unwnd

Yeah, I still think that both the unwnd and marci wagons are on town, and I humbly request all of the other cool kids leave those wagons (and preferable join me on my righteous std wagon)

Please and thank you

[Lukewarm]

@Notty, you asked for reasons behind the STD wagon, and so I wrote out my reasons.

1141

Please respond

[Lukewarm]

I'm also a little confused if they got the chronology wrong.

What chronology are you saying they may have gotten wrong?

[Lukewarm]

In-between those two posts, I immediately read the setup to understand why it was being questioned of me. I didn't backtrack.I just didn't want to publicly admit that I had not read the setup until after the game had actually started, because that reflects poorly on me.

Spoiler:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/ori ... 53/94c.jpg

This... is I guess a plausible explanation for what I originally did not like, but also like... is a perfect thread the needle to avoid what I originally did not like about those posts. This does not really make me feel a lot better about the feeling that he was shifting his answers to avoid the thing that people were questioning him on, but also... There is not really a way to prove when he read the rules, so I don't think that there is much more to gain from this line of questioning.

[Lukewarm]

Also I didn't engage with you because it was a tmi read on you so what you said didn't matter to me

Then why did you start it out by asking me anything at all, if the answers did not matter to you?

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm: There's some interesting phrasing in their early posts (calling leading wagons "trendy") that as much as they aren't scum tells and could fairly well just be how they phrase their statements, I would associate with being purposefully distant from town wagons. They're also suspecting me because of the whole number thing, and I'd like to get their attention and have a good conversation with them about other things in the game and putting someone in scumreads is always a good way to do that!

Is there a reason why your statement that you want to talk to me about things in this game not come with actually anything that you wanted to talk to me about? lol

[Lukewarm]

kingtroll to that point was behind in the game, so, like, of course he didn't do much. but i think since catching up he's been fine and tbh i buy the story about not reading/paying attention to the setup as a slightly disinvested townie, doesn't strike me as the type of player to fake something like that

Peta, what part of Kingtroll's catch up did you actually like? I finally got to that part of the game, and I feel like all of his reads were pretty toothless and generally vague.

Maybe I misinterpreted your comment to me, but I kinda of got there ready to find the thing that made you think that they were town, and just did not really find anything to fill that expectation

[Lukewarm]

I'm still waiting for the scum motivation of getting two people so disenchanted with me they are now voting me

Cuz I obviously didn't do it to appear town lol

What? Obviously you did not expect this push back, regardless of your alignment.

The scum motivation would have been to try and build up momentum on me, given unwnds strong confident scum read there, and a *lot* of players having me in the lower portion of their reads. You added yourself and convinced ceph to join my wagon, making it an actual wagon.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would have expected unwnd of all people to start scum reading you in response to agreeing with him that I was scum.

[Lukewarm]

I think that I need to go

V/LA for a week (@mod)

Sorry, but I fell into a not great headspace yesterday, and I don't really have the mental energy to bring to this game right now. Hopefully in a couple days I will feel ready to jump back in, but I just.. cant right now.

I'm sorry :/

[Lukewarm]

I guess my question for the people saying that the confrontational nature that Marci displayed in this game vs the games that got linked are similar, but different in some way, is: have you seen a single scum game from her that had that behavior at all?

I feel like I a somewhat rocky on distinguishing between efforting town Marci and efforting scum Marci, but I think that every time I have run into :: Marci getting disconnected from the game, and then gets max confrontational when people start saying that "Marci not doing more makes her scum" :: has exclusively come from town marci, and i have yet encountered a single scum game from her that had that included her trying to replicate that.

And I just feel like my understanding of how she approaches playing scum means that she would not really set out to replicate that.

I guess this is mostly at @notty and unwnd, because yall are the two I saw saying that when I read through, but anyone is welcome to link a scum game of marci with that if you got it

[Lukewarm]

My view of Marci's internal monologue as scum is a constant refrain of "I CANT LET ME TEAM DOWN " -- and that pressure, to help her team, which does not exist in how she approaches playing town, I think would have forced her to take a different approach

[Lukewarm]

Hi, I planned on trying to get caught back up today, but instead spent most of it sleeping off a migraine x.x

[Lukewarm]

vote count 1.15

with 14 votes in play, it takes 8 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-02-08 01:31:56).

yeet

KingTroll[6]:

Bell, marcistar, Cephrir, unwnd, notscience, Ydrasse,

Save The Dragons[2]:

Lukewarm, Dunnstral,

Dunnstral[2]:

GreyICE, Save The Dragons,

marcistar[1]:

petapan,

Not Voting [2]:

KingTroll, Taly, Lady Lambdadelta,

mod notes

none

flavour

Kingtroll feels like an acceptable compromise for the day to me, although I still think I would prefer STD.

KingTroll

[Lukewarm]

Opps

VOTE: Kingtroll

[Lukewarm]

So you think she’s town. I’m okay steeping you if you wanna take responsibility for it.

Uh... I guess it depends on what you mean by taking responsibility for it lol

If you mean that you can point and laugh at me post game if I am wrong, then sure. IF you are asking me if I will accept my own elim if I am wrong, no?

But I feel like I have more reason to think that she is town the most of the player list, and do not want her to be the elim of the day (and am happy that wagon dissipated)

[Lukewarm]

Hello everyone! I think I'm going to ISO dunnstral because marci seems like a WIFOM trap for me right now!

Okay, did a quick scan of his Iso to see this, and it appears it never happened. I am still good with my vote here after reading the iso

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: kingtroll

Marci this is a wild change of stance lmao

Do you explain this later, and i just need to get there, or??

[Lukewarm]

??????

Ydra gets me

[Lukewarm]

let's start a debate on the merits of no-lim to spice things up

[Lukewarm]

she started playing when she copped a few votes and then stopped again

i think this d1 is boring as hell and have no strong opinions but would like to start playing d2

Going back a bit, I think that I like this post from Ydra actually

[Lukewarm]

@luke when you catch up I wanna talk about these similarities because it’s eerie

I mean, I do see that there was a sudden jauny of light heartedness in this last couple pages, which is what kind of happened in Bloodstained with the pirate thing, but I am not sure that is automatically because scum doing coordinating to make that happen? I don't think that I have seen any scum team coordinate a page of happy fun times in any other game ever, so not sure.

I also don't know that the team in bloodstained gained very much from doing it either, because since everyone joined in, no one got more town read from it I don't think, so I am not really worried about it either I don't think?

[Lukewarm]

@luke when you catch up I wanna talk about these similarities because it’s eerie

Wym you were scum in bloodstained

This very much feels like the pirate dicking around to lol elim Titus.

I guess in my head the pirate thing that the lol-elim titus thing were a bit disconnected, because the pirate thing did not actually give pooky any cover for that vote.

[Lukewarm]

I think we should just leash marci and if she goes 'lol I was roleblocked' it's not the end of the world

Feels like a waste killing her

VOTE: KingTroll

You cannot leash a tracker...

[Lukewarm]

Obviously don’t list yourselves.

I don’t want her to track Luke, Bell, Taly, or unwnd.

This is a good start

Anyone who is pissy about it

It takes zero effort to do something like this

This feels like we are playing "name your top 4 town reads, but you can't name marci" which is making my list a little harder to flesh out lol

unwnd and notty for sure, maybe Taly and LLD for the other two?

[Lukewarm]

I mean if she doesn’t follow it she should just have a good fucking reason

For instance: she STILL never explained what changed her read on me

I feel like Marci should track who ever she wants to, and ignore these lists entirely, because that is the best odds to getting a useful result.

But, like, sure, we should question her on who she choose and why tomorrow.

[Lukewarm]

ok thank you for your opinions on the matyer! who should i track?

I recommend you completely ignore everyone's opinion and do whatever the hell you want

this is the only correct answer

Yeah, what they said

[Lukewarm]

Do we start with me, GI or Unwnd?

Your post feels like it is a "list of people who can lead if they are cleared," but I have not really seen anything from GreyIce to make me think that they can do that. Not like on a skill level, but on a How Much Time they can dedicate to the game level.

That is a valid enough way to aim the cop I guess, although if I am aiming it, I would probably put it on strong players that generally ride in a hard to read category, which to me would be Ceph or Dunn - maybe Peta this game

[Lukewarm]

what if we just hypo cop results tomorrow lol

im pretty comfy with this

I think that I like this plan more then leashing the cop actually

[Lukewarm]

-marci probably should not out her full results. my suggestion would be that she report from the following options:
-no result (do not out your target in this case, for multiple reasons - one of them being you could have tracked the cop)
-my target visited someone other than the kill (don't out them)
-my target visited no one (don't out them)
-my target visited the kill (out them)

This feels like an incredibly pro town post, especially the bit about if you get no result not to out your target. I had not really even thought about Marci possibly outing the cop, and so there is a decent chance she didn't either.

[Lukewarm]

There was a brief moment that GreyICE talked about this. I've thought about the number selection more. How likely is it for two partners to pick the same number? Thoughts in my head ranged from 'this means Taly/Peta/Notty can't be a team' but I'm unsure if that has substantial backing.

scum have literally almost never doubled up across 30+ games if you count PYP X/Y as well as the primordial instances of the setup

last time i played this as scum (and the only time i've drafted as scum) my team did so poorly in the draft (coming away with only a 1 shot vig and nothing else) that it completely massacred our morale straight out of the gate and made the game much harder than it should have been, and that was without intentional doubling

i think in practice i'd basically never do it now because the reward of a potential false clear is not worth the potential risk in tanking your team's draft

So do you think the people with duplicates are likely unaligned if one of those duplicates is scum?

I think that that would be a safe assumption personally

[Lukewarm]

oh and we're not limming

marci

, D1 PR claims always need a pass

this is a pretty bizarre post to make in an open setup where claims are entirely NAI and you can tell from the first page of the game who likely has a PR

especially given taly didn't say shit about this when there was suspicion on marci in the first place

I missed that line while trying to get current.

@Taly, if you felt this way, is there a reason that you were okay with a Marci vote before? She has been guarantied a PR since the start of the game. Were you aware of her position on the draft sheet when you voted her?

[Lukewarm]

I don't feel like I retained the last couple of pages that I read, because it is late and I had a lot of pages to get caught up on

[Lukewarm]

I am current though, and I am still good with the KT elim

[Lukewarm]

I decided to stare at the PL for a min. I am approximately at

Town:
Unwnd, Notty, Marci

Lady Lambdadelta, Taly*

---

Shades of Null:
Ceph, GreyIce, Ydra
Bell
Peta, Dunn

---

Scum:
KingTroll
STD

*I think that Taly's response to my last questions might influence their tier, up or down, so I kinda need to see their answer first

Same line is unsorted, but differing lines are a distinction.

[Lukewarm]

Actually, just looking at the list a bit more, I think I would move Ceph up to the bottom half of town

[Lukewarm]

oh and we're not limming

marci

, D1 PR claims always need a pass

this is a pretty bizarre post to make in an open setup where claims are entirely NAI and you can tell from the first page of the game who likely has a PR

especially given taly didn't say shit about this when there was suspicion on marci in the first place

I missed that line while trying to get current.

@Taly, if you felt this way, is there a reason that you were okay with a Marci vote before? She has been guarantied a PR since the start of the game. Were you aware of her position on the draft sheet when you voted her?

i mean dude that was literally an rvs vote i don't know what you're on about

Oh.

When I saw your post, I followed back the quote, and given the context, I thought that they were unvoting Marci in that post, for that reason. I see that I was incorrect

oh and we're not limming

marci

, D1 PR claims always need a pass

hmmm

not track list: Luke, Bell, Peta, Notty

UNVOTE:

They were unvoting unwnd here

[Lukewarm]

If I were a cop, I targeted Ceph and he was town :/

[Lukewarm]

I decided to fleshing out my thoughts on my readslist a bit more over the night, but skipped the people i feel like I have talked a bit more about. So I skipped Unwnd, Notty, Marci, and STD

[Lukewarm]

Subject: Open 873: PYP: Anime Music & Memes - Day Two

I decided to stare at the PL for a min. I am approximately at

Town:
Unwnd, Notty, Marci

Lady Lambdadelta, Taly*,

ceph

---

Shades of Null:

Ceph

, GreyIce, Ydra
Bell
Peta, Dunn

---

Scum:
KingTroll
STD

*I think that Taly's response to my last questions might influence their tier, up or down, so I kinda need to see their answer first

Same line is unsorted, but differing lines are a distinction.

Okay

LLD

- I was very paranoid of LLD for the first half of the day, but there were a series of posts that made me think town.
-1039 - This was a post that I found myself nodding along to basically everything that was said here, which inherently makes me think town. It is also not a post I think that she really needs to make if she is scum, because GreyIce's low activity could make him a potential miselim this game, which she should not be making a fairly convincing case to shoot that down. And if she were scum WITH GI, I don't know that she would tie herself so strongly to him this way, it is my understanding that LLD is a fairly happy to bus as needed, not to prop up a partner this way?

1177 - while I disagree with her Marci scum read, I liked the way that LLD went about this interaction. She does not seem to be trying to bury Marci, but instead, appears to have a level of handing out an olive brach to her here, that I don't think that scum would be inclined to put.

And then 1736 - I think that scum, seeing Ydra put unclaimed early draft slot at E-1 unannounced, would quietly hope that someone would accidentally hammer. Both to get a likely PR out of the game, and for the fall back to go onto Ydra for not announcing the E-1 or the person who hammered. Seems to me that she would have had zero blow back for just... not making this post.

Taly

- I think that my read here is a bit stale. That tierlist was made before I actually went through her iso, and was just more vibes and 1195 -- but actually going through this iso, there seems to be a bit less follow up with all of the braches that they are putting out then I remembered. I'd probably slid her back down into null after looking at her iso.

I... am getting tired, and so from here on, I'm not actually opening up isos. Just thoughts. Anyways

Ceph

His approach to PR discussion seemed very pro town
Same thoughts on the tracker in 1622
And then

1752

was an very townie post imo. Both in dealing with the cop hypo and dealing with the tracker, and also the self-referential line "fwiw i do not think i would have made this post if i were scum" seems like something that actual scum would shy away from saying out loud. They want us to see that post, and come to that conclusion.

GreyIce

- is largely here in the step above null because of the LLD case which I agreed with

Ydra

- Gonna be real with you, if you ask me why ydra is here instead of inside of true null, it would be hard to give an answer that feels all that satisfactory to myself, because it is largely the vibes. I have encountered Ydra on this vibe length a couple times, and she was town in both. Which makes me want to say she is more likely town, but it is hard to know how Scum Ydra in the same head space would vibrate, so it is harder to put her higher then this too.

Bell

- He is actually being propped up by the fact that everyone that I think is town is saying that he is obviously town. I was leaning scum for most of the day because of his lack of think of as Bell's attempts as scum hunting. His focus was too narrow, and he was not out ruffling feathers across the player list. At the time, Notty seemed to agree with me. But then suddenly Notty and unwnd started saying he was obviously town, and I felt like I must have missed something during that phase of the day when I was largely in catch up mode. I need to actually do an iso of him for real when I get a chance.

Peta

- I was having a hard time getting a read on Peta, but I did not like the way that he seemed unwilling to let the Marci elim go, and then his "we should not kill KT, because newbie" but then also giving people the go ahead to do that anyways felt kinda performative. idk, its a weak read.

Dunn

Dunn is never the easiest to read, I kinda got the heebiejeebies with him entering into the game with his first post being a town read on me, and then popping up repeatedly to reiterate it. Which, then combined with this post

Are you aware that I had the 3rd least posts in the game when you voted for me?

I think it's time you defined what "doing stuff" entails, and how you think that makes me mafia this game.

Which felt like he might was setting up STD to say that he was not active and therefore scum, specifically to get me to think he is town because a while back I made a spread sheet of 10+ games of Dunn that compared his day 1 activity vs his alignment to disprove the repeated arguments that him being inactive made him scum.

Those two things combined have me a little worried that he is trying to make me think that he isactively town.

SKipping KT for obvious reason

[Lukewarm]

That being said. Sorry :/

[Lukewarm]

You think I'm mafia because I might have been doing something that I never did

I have you in lower half of null in that reads list. Not scum. I did not have a strong read on you one way or the other, but was paranoid about that in particular

[Lukewarm]

LLD, I think you did amazing with what you were left with. Sorry again for needing to leave you >.<

Emotionally that week leading up to chemo, and then physically the week following, the energy requirement to feel like I was carrying my weight this game was just... too much.

I started feeling better the week after I repped out, and started imagining a world where I stayed in and Ffery took the Taly slot, and kind of regretted leaving... but then I had my second round of chemo the same day the 6p Melo started, and realized once again that it probably was still the right call. Physically, I would have needed to be MIA, but I don't think I would have actually done that if I was in the game.

In another world, we would have rocked this game though lol

[Lukewarm]

Looks like Lukewarm is capable of wall posting as mafia

Yeah, I kinda laughed a little at the town read for that reason.

I think that wall posts have been present in all of my scum games, because I feel like people expect them from me.

It was funny seeing Fire rep in, and scum read me for the same reason you town read me

i thought luke was scummy from reading along mostly because his reads and interactions felt overly forced and

essay-like

in the way that he likes to do as scum.

[Lukewarm]

LLD, I think you did amazing with what you were left with. Sorry again for needing to leave you >.<

Emotionally that week leading up to chemo, and then physically the week following, the energy requirement to feel like I was carrying my weight this game was just... too much.

I started feeling better the week after I repped out, and started imagining a world where I stayed in and Ffery took the Taly slot, and kind of regretted leaving... but then I had my second round of chemo the same day the 6p Melo started, and realized once again that it probably was still the right call. Physically, I would have needed to be MIA, but I don't think I would have actually done that if I was in the game.

In another world, we would have rocked this game though lol

i was going to go to war on you if you had been in the game still lol

I was aware of your scum read on me, but I did not feel like you were positioned well to actually lead an elim on me given how many town reads I had.

But yeah, you felt like the biggest person not budging on me

[Lukewarm]

I don't want to dogpile RH, but just going to voice agreeance that the rep-out, as it was done was not cool.

But on a more, encouraging angle for this, RH -- I really don't think that you doomed yourself with your posting. Yes, you walked into suspicion from Peta, but you were still in a position to pull through. I think that you psych yourself out a lot as scum. Not just this game, I have seen it in other scum games.

I feel like you end up at a "We are doomed" mindset too easily, and trying to fight through that urge is some thing that you probably should work on in your scum game. Just deep breaths, and BELIEVE that you have a chance, and I think that would help you moving forward.

[Lukewarm]

Scum Discord Chat: https://discord.gg/b3weJtVrxT

It has been locked for new messages, but should be readable for everyone