Eminence in Shadow: Season 1 [Game Over]

[SirCakez]

Btw disclaimer that i know nothing about the flavor

me
as usual idk shit about mech and flavor solves so im counting on someone else to do that

VOTE: penguinpower for betraying the greens

[SirCakez]

OH WAIT LMFAO NO
VOTE: pooky
GET HIME OUT OF HERE

[SirCakez]

sakura town for refusing my advances

alisae town for wanting to yeet kawaii

im so good at this game sometimes

yeah he is scum for sure

[SirCakez]

oh man i am not in a good mood rn maybe i should come back here later

[SirCakez]

hello I am here still reading up but why is Pooky not at E-1 yet

[SirCakez]

Do you have a reason for suspecting Pooky?

He is scum

[SirCakez]

VOTE: duelist

Don't need to read the other 5 pages to know this is one

Duelist didn't even post on the page you posted this, this doesn't make any sense

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Kawaii

I'll put my vote here for now.

I feel like this is a weak spot to end up after the barrage of posts before this

[SirCakez]

OH WAIT LMFAO NO
VOTE: pooky
GET HIME OUT OF HERE

oh man i am not in a good mood rn maybe i should come back here later

rofl did cakeboi just vote me and get scared and run away

yes that's exactly what happened

It's also exasperating that 205 is both an actual answer to my question and a turn of phrase that looks like a deflection at first glance - I feel like I'm talking to Riddler right now not Penguin

I like this post it feels like genuine aggrievement

I’m not claiming my read accuracy on you is perfect, I know that’s bogus. I am saying I have read you on miniscule evidence previously, and you seemed to be denying that? My read on you only really got serious once you did that.

no i was just joking around about town having trouble reading me because mafia dont need to read me

saying that town has trouble reading me doesnt mean that all town has trouble reading me

come on look at this bs, Pooky couldn't make a bigger stretch if he worked at a chewing gum factory

[SirCakez]

the wagon on me is actually garbage

VOTE: SirCakes

stop hiding and fight me

VOTE: SirCakes

stop hiding and fight me

seeing this made me realize i completely forgot to move cakez's name in my reads list and ill just make it ambiguous bc its more fun that way

VOTE: sircakez

VOTE: cakez

VOTE: cakez

[SirCakez]

VOTE: duelist

Don't need to read the other 5 pages to know this is one

Duelist didn't even post on the page you posted this, this doesn't make any sense

I believe Cephrir is referring to page 1, and the pages they haven't read are 2-6

ah okay

[SirCakez]

I'm here but nothing on last two pages really made me think anything of it

[SirCakez]

Someone convince me Cakez is scum because I'm inclined to think otherwise atm but I've been inaccurate on Cakez before

Also @Ali what kind of confidence do you have about Luka!town

whats townie about cakez

such a bad loaded question

[SirCakez]

I don't like the way Big Chungus Gaming is interacting with Klick slot, but do like the way they are interacting with T3

so what's your overall take on that slot then

[SirCakez]

I don't like the way Big Chungus Gaming is interacting with Klick slot, but do like the way they are interacting with T3

have you considered our lord and savior "sort by postcount" though?

VOTE: jjh

pretty much the lowest of LHF votes possible here

[SirCakez]

Not really sure, it's been a while since I've thought about Cakez and I don't have a great record of reading him
That's why I was looking for why people think he's scum

townie thoughts here

[SirCakez]

He seems kinda confident and is saying things that make me go 'hm okay I could see you having this train of thought as town'

bruh im not even sure if he has a train of thought

bruh I caught you in the first 24 hours

[SirCakez]

VOTE: jjh

VOTE: jjh

there's definitely scum in here regardless of jjh alignment imo, this wagon is terrible

[SirCakez]

VOTE: bcg

im just not buying what this slot is selling

OK so which slots are townier than mine? Out of every slot

scummy ass reaction, "why fry me" esque

[SirCakez]

He seems kinda confident and is saying things that make me go 'hm okay I could see you having this train of thought as town'

bruh im not even sure if he has a train of thought

bruh I caught you in the first 24 hours

Could you explain your read?

I don't believe his confidence (I know he's always blustery and faux confident but I don't buy it here) or his reads, they feel made up and this was strengthened when he immediately attacked me when I entered voting him, he knows hes not gonna get anywhere with me on his ass so he has to get rid of me first. y

[SirCakez]

I don't believe his confidence (I know he's always blustery and faux confident but I don't buy it here) or his reads, they feel made up and this was strengthened when he immediately attacked me when I entered voting him, he knows hes not gonna get anywhere with me on his ass so he has to get rid of me first. y

I see, can you explain why you entered voting him? As in, what gave you impression of him being scum? You can link posts because to me it felt a bit early to have that "confidence" you showed.

In 182 I voted him bc I always have to enter approaching him as if he's scum bc we are rarely the same alignment and he completely bamboozled me one time in 3p once so I can never trust him again <3
But then I read on and noticed posts that I actually found objectively scummy in 184 and nothing since has made me feel like "okay maybe I can trust Pooky a tiny tiny bit here"

[SirCakez]

VOTE: bcg

im just not buying what this slot is selling

OK so which slots are townier than mine? Out of every slot

scummy ass reaction, "why fry me" esque

He seems kinda confident and is saying things that make me go 'hm okay I could see you having this train of thought as town'

bruh im not even sure if he has a train of thought

bruh I caught you in the first 24 hours

Could you explain your read?

I don't believe his confidence (I know he's always blustery and faux confident but I don't buy it here) or his reads, they feel made up and this was strengthened when he immediately attacked me when I entered voting him, he knows hes not gonna get anywhere with me on his ass so he has to get rid of me first. y

Would Cakez really have such poor analysis as scum???

what's wrong with my analysis

[SirCakez]

Woah a lot of pages

[SirCakez]

Dunn and mines bottom tier is mostly the same as yours so I don’t see how town you reads 2 ppl as scummy if they share similar views as you

I still don't actually know what this means

Dunn you and I share very similar bottom scumreads

It makes 0 sense for town you to have those bottom scumreads and also scumread Dunn and I

I disagree with this as reasoning on quite a few levels -

1. I don't actually have a conscious awareness of yours and Dunn's scumreads, and didn't when I developed my reads. My read on yourself and Dunn is independent of your reads on anyone else.

2. The bottom reads themselves are not particularly controversial, I don't think? To the point where I wouldn't be surprised if there were, say, three scum in my bottom six, and the last partner decided to have their scumbuddies all towards the bottom.

3. I also don't think my lower reads at this stage are powerful enough to justify them shifting my view of other players based on them. If anything, the bottom of my list is the bottom mostly because the top have pulled away from them, not the other way around.

4. I don't even scumread you or Dunnstral.

Nice Klick post, definitely a bad take from WhemeStar

Quick town case on myself actually
While nothing ive done is AI so far, what I havent done is 100% AI. On a new forum I leverage people not knowing my scum meta and I'd probably just deep wolf. I think I would be able to do it effectively as well; im nigh uncatchable as wolf w/o meta. It's what allows me to demolish anon games. On forums that people are familiar with me on I normally don't tryhard so I dont get meta caught, but as a wolf here I would 100% immediently come in guns blazing with cases and stuffs.

why do you even feel the need to town case yourself already?

[SirCakez]

ok 657 actually seems legit :///
Pookyyy

[SirCakez]

1. I want to know what your strongest reads are at this moment. Which players do you have the most confidence in just being town? Which players do you have a particularly bad feeling about, even if you can't currently justify it? I want to know the opinions that matter most to you atm.

2. Following that, I also want to know what you all think of the following slots:

{STD, Gamma, Penguin, Pooky, Chungus, jjh}

(I'm not solely limited to focusing on those slots, that's just where my own PoE has me atm and I want something to more meaningfully sort between them.)

My end goal is to push the game in a positive direction. I am seeing a lack of cohesion/willingness to drive the game forward all around, and my intention is to change that and get pressure on high equity scum slots.

I also want to trial what happens if I just openly and transparently do this, as opposed to doing it the inconspicuous way. It seems like a good opportunity to try it, considering the stagnant game state.

1.
Sircakez town
Wheme town
Luka town
Chungus scum

2
STD I need more to work with
Gamma don't know... I resolved to pay attention to her and then didn't
Penguin thought he was town earlier but feeling less sure now
pooky I've had as a suspect but I'm starting to doubt it with the borderline self destructing he's been doing on the last couple pages
Chungus' brief blaze of light died out quickly
Jjh honestly his last post just viscerally fills me with a sense that he will never post in this game again. But for now anyone who says they have a read on this person is fooling themselves

can we start a Big Chungus wagon? they are literally doing nothing

VOTE: big chungus gaming

[SirCakez]

pooky vs dunn was brain numbing

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Big Chungus Gaming

now I can get behind this

[SirCakez]

still not worth pushing d1 or even d2 but i trust pooky explicitly while dunns i think is a very "must watch carefully" slot still

I don't think this is an opinion you had before, actually, and instead seems to be a reaction to seeing my read on you.

i agree with this it seems like big chungus manufactured that for defense purposes

[SirCakez]

ssbm_Kyouko
pookythemagicalbear
Alisae
Whemestar
Dunnstral
T3
KawaiiKame
Sakura Hana

Cephrir
Penguinpower
Gamma Emerald
SirCakez

Save the Dragons
Luka
jjh927
Duelist Kage


it would be hilarious if the exact scumteam was the 2nd tier bc it would be extremely on brand for my d1 reads but here is where im at, actually fully ordered without forgetting anyone

I think a better and more brief demonstration of how recent content has adjusted my view without being like "all of it" because some things lead to others etc, is to show where ive moved based on catch up reading:

ssbm_Kyouko
pookythemagicalbear
Alisae
Whemestar
Sakura Hana
T3
KawaiiKame

Luka
Klick

Dunnstral
Cephrir
Gamma Emerald
Penguinpower

SirCakez
Save the Dragons
jjh927

"but bcg you only have 3 names in the bottom" - yes but I'll be concerned about that later rather than now, I now feel the vibe of there being a scum influence in some of the discussion and I am unsure who but again, thats a future problem while theres other slots to go fo

VOTE: save the dragons

yeah this is a totally bs reads list too, how is jjh really a bottom tier scum read?? And how am I there with StD and jjh, there has been literally no mention of this until now, it just looks like chungus picked who seemed like viable wagons

[SirCakez]

It kinda feels like chungus might be bussing StD???

[SirCakez]

Ok I’ve seen enough the day 1 elimination is cakez guys

[SirCakez]

dont mean to interrupt your confbias rant where you totally dont look unhinged, but thats a list of players from towniest to least towny

I enjoyed my rant

[SirCakez]

i don't recall u asking why i thought sircakez was scum

i feel like his takes are pretty bad and just kind of thrown out there

like the big chungus bussing me take seems kind of out of left field where does that come from

it was just a vibe thus the ???

[SirCakez]

perfect

[SirCakez]

VOTE: Big Chungus Gaming

now I can get behind this

why'd you call out my vote specifically?

because it was the first one I saw after Cephs post that made me want to wagon bcg

[SirCakez]

ok 657 actually seems legit :///

If you were that confident before, why did you suddenly drop the read?

657 looks like a town mindset Pooky, I'm not sure he could have written that from scum PoV

[SirCakez]

now I can get behind this

So far you're 0/2 on good pushes.

why is big chungus town

[SirCakez]

1. jjh927 - please post
2. Gamma Emerald - i remember townreading but I don't remember need to re-eval
3. Sakura Hana - town
4. Dunnstral - don't remember any posts
6.pookythemagicalbear - town
7. SirCakez - mafia
Luka - town
9. Klick - town
10. Whemestar - town
11. Save the Dragons - unreadable
12. Cephrir - town
13. Big Chungus Gaming - cannot determine alignment
14. Penguinpower - gun to head town?
15. KawaiiKame - town
16. ssbm_Kyouko - town
17. T3 - Klick said they're town I sure hope that's sheepable but I can just sit on this for a bit ig they don't die anytime soon

this is a pretty bad reads list no way I'm your only SR rn and having no take on Dunn, StD or Big Chungus when those are three highly discussed slots is a cop out

[SirCakez]

I think the same could be said for BCG, and I'm kinda fine with that wagon reaching elimination as well in a vacuum

nah BCG is being actively scummy here not just D1 not town looking

[SirCakez]

now I can get behind this

So far you're 0/2 on good pushes.

why is big chungus town

Uhm I dunnno townie mindset gut feels I forgot everything they posted already

[SirCakez]

I actually kinda think the jjh entry was townie

VOTE: jjh

sorting by poe is king and always will be btw

This vote sucks

[SirCakez]

Now let's do my bottom 4 excluding jjh...
Kage/klick, Luka, STD, cakez. I wanna hear what puts me under these names

oh, it's probably that i think you're scum

i know better than to meet you on a battlefield of your choosing, but at least this frustrating version of you is closer to what i was expecting

ive been patient, cephrir, but I am certainly finding it difficult to track any sort of thought process that actually led you naturally to finding me as scum. This post in particular was a big red flag at the time, but I opted to not comment at the time. It felt very "oh great you're trying to do something thats effective for you" but like theres no reason to think this is some scum plot.

When relooking at this ISO and holistically tracking your mentions of my slot, and looking at the context of my content - I find your read on me to be forced to some degree by some aspect.

Now - I want you to tell me what shortcut read you made because otherwise the only other conclusion I draw here is that you are scum who pulled the read out of your ass.

c'mon I can't buy this, I often find it tough to read Cephrir but this game I have been able to figure out where his heads at pretty easily

[SirCakez]

regardless if my gamma playing "deepwolf" read is wrong and it is just cakez im only 3/4 if it is STD, big sadge.

how is Gamma playing like a deep wolf?

[SirCakez]

i think the fact that absolutely no1 wants to help me vote dunnstral means he's just mafia

What's your scum case on duun? I haven't read his iso.

I think the way he pushed me was disingenuous and convoluted. It felt like he had not overarching point and relied on weird verbal tricks to dance around me instead of sorting me. I felt that he never really felt curious about my alignment and wanted to project a lot of certainty about me being mafia which doesn't make sense to me because town!him has never been very good at catching me when I'm mafia like ever. He fell back to wild levels of ate and then quietly shrunk off to vote STD instead when it looked like he was getting nowhere instead of trying to convince anyone I am mafia.

This is a very misleading narrative construction

[SirCakez]

i do think that the wagon on me is overwhelmingly pushed by scum/willage and sometimes the line is hard to discern lmao

who is the scum on your wagon besides Ceph and me?

[SirCakez]

I don't find the extreme omgus and bad faith arguments coming from Big Chungus Gaming slot to be town
I don't think Pooky is town either

It is annoying to me that both are being binned as town for wall posting arguments without really reading into the arguments. That's the feeling I get at least.

Who is town binning Pooky? I found one post of his to be compelling but I still wouldn't trust the dude with a ten foot pole

[SirCakez]

VOTE: cephrir
I feel like this is a decently scumread player with little motion to actually start anything there, I’m changing that

Why doesn't this post contain a read

What does this mean? Seems pretty obvious to me Gamma scumreads you from that post

[SirCakez]

I should probably make a readslist

[SirCakez]

VOTE: cephrir
I feel like this is a decently scumread player with little motion to actually start anything there, I’m changing that

Why doesn't this post contain a read

What does this mean? Seems pretty obvious to me Gamma scumreads you from that post

she dances around actually saying it, making it out like her vote is about game health or something

again, trying to paint something that looks weird on surface level as something scummy.
the implication by voting there is clear.

lets pull something out of your hat of logic though, you must be only saying this because they are voting you

yeah I have to agree with BCG on this one, it felt pretty clear to me

[SirCakez]

Although 1097 from SC is kinda ???.

how so

[SirCakez]

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

I have to vote this bullshit
VOTE: alisae

[SirCakez]

I don't really think kawaii is scummy dude is just engaging the game at his own speed

[SirCakez]

1328 for example

like to me that post is just worded weirdly but it just seems like a posting style thing to me because I had the same thought

[SirCakez]

Although 1097 from SC is kinda ???.

how so

Just because you can figure out where Ceph sees doesnt mean others should be able to, also you dont explain when BCG asks you to. Heck, even Ceph himself cant explain the vibes to me (his TR) when prompted to, what makes you think you can?

oops I definitely missed bcgs question at the bottom of that page
I saw the way Ceph got to the BCG vote, ya he did not explain it much but that's Ceph for you and his frustrations with the slot that led to the vote seem genuine. ig I can't explain out his thoughts for him but ya.

[SirCakez]

I saw the way Ceph got to the BCG vote, ya he did not explain it much but that's Ceph for you and his frustrations with the slot that led to the vote seem genuine

This is a lot better than what you said before because it looked fake to me, I don't see how Ceph got to the BCG vote, and i dont see any re-evaluating after BCG's more recent posts which solidified my townread there, which means the read must be pretty strong, but i dont see how something out of "vibes" can be that strong. What's your take on it?

Are you asking for my current read on BCG or Ceph's? I definitely don't feel as strongly that Chungus is scum w their second half of day posts. That's partially why I moved to Alisae wagon (mostly just because e is playing like a shitter rn though)

[SirCakez]

For my read on Ceph ATM - I had a few questions over his more recent posts but he seems v frustrated so I want to give him some space to figure stuff out rn

[SirCakez]

For my read on Ceph ATM - I had a few questions over his more recent posts but he seems v frustrated so I want to give him some space to figure stuff out rn

I can answer questions if you want.

I would be in a better place to show I'm town if I talk about a subject other than BCG tho.

Unrelated, I feel like kawaii's post quality is taking a dive and I'd like to know whether klick finds it significant or thinks this is in line w/ his stuff

Ok aside from BCG - what are ur reads on Alisae, Gamma and Sakura? These are some slots I'm trying to sort rn

[SirCakez]

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

I have to vote this bullshit
VOTE: alisae

this is a wolfclaim from cakez btw.
I know him enough to know this

bruh don't try to psychoanalyze me here when you aren't even playing the game

[SirCakez]

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

I have to vote this bullshit
VOTE: alisae

this is a wolfclaim from cakez btw.
I know him enough to know this

hey everyone this is a wolf claim from Alisae, I know e enough to know this

[SirCakez]

bruh don't try to psychoanalyze me here when you aren't even playing the game

how is calling a post wolfie psychoanalyzing it

I was looking at the "I know him enough to know this" bit. Maybe psychoanalyze isn't the right word but Ali is posting like e knows exactly what I'd do in some scenario but isn't actually explaining why that's scummy...

So e can play the game or I can vote park there

[SirCakez]

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

I have to vote this bullshit
VOTE: alisae

this is a wolfclaim from cakez btw.
I know him enough to know this

bruh don't try to psychoanalyze me here when you aren't even playing the game

you're mafia

Wow u caught me!!!

[SirCakez]

If Ali really knows me so well then e should know this kind of play is going to piss me off regardless of my alignment

[SirCakez]

SR
Cakez - I've pointed out the post that makes Cakez scum but don't want to explain why it does in case I play with him again in the future

I find this to be incredibly obnoxious fyi, Cabd used to do the same thing where he'd go "oh I figured out Cakez' tells but I'm going to keep them secret from him" and it bothered me a lot then too
I already got mad at Ali this game for basically the same thing but at least Ali didn't declare intent to lord it over me for the indefinite future

[SirCakez]

I'm too town for elim and I don't even have to try hard to do it

I have to vote this bullshit
VOTE: alisae

this is a wolfclaim from cakez btw.
I know him enough to know this

Wait what?

no way he believes im mafia

I could be off here but I don't actually see where he called you mafia

Mm hmm but that would actually require Alisae to play the game and read my posts

[SirCakez]

You know what, sure, my vote isnt doing anything and i dont townread Cakez, heck i've gone into scumreading him a couple times but then back to neutral.
VOTE: Cakez

Vote feels bad and nervous

How is this a bad vote? You've been scumreading me like all game

[SirCakez]

I have literally no idea how to read Gamma, but Kyouko, if she's a super confident SR, why would you rather eliminate Cakez first? (Judging by your current vote)

I worry if I die Cakez might get away (not worried about Gamma getting away), and also I think wagoning Cakez will be more productive. I think wagons on both of them will help find 3rd/4th scum.

bruh when have I ever "gotten away" in ANY mafia game as ANY alignment?? I get eliminated in like 90% of my games regardless of if I'm town or scum. This doesn't seem like a real thought process

[SirCakez]

How is this a bad vote? You've been scumreading me like all game

it feels really akward and opportunistic after sakura just defended u

Ya it's awkward but I read the earnestness of it as town, like she didn't dress it up at all she just went fuck it and switched which I find to be townie

[SirCakez]

I lost my grasp on this game

[SirCakez]

someone just tell me who to vote, Penguin and JJH fuck if I know what alignment they are. I'd like to actually vote for someone's scumread rather than my salty shitter vote on Alisae. Dunn I can never read correctly and Pookys argument with him didn't make me feel good about either of them. I don't know how to read Gamma's emotional posting because I feel bad for her but I know she does it as either alignment. I don't have anyone I strongly find scummy right now because I'm just not with this game rn y'all

[SirCakez]

I guess more helpful is people I wouldn't eliminate - I think Sakura, Klick, Cephrir, Luka, Wheme have felt townie enough to me today. Kyouko and Alisae I feel biased against for obvious reasons. No point eliminating the empty Kawaii slot imo.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: penguin
I read his iso and pengys basically voting any viable wagon to save himself, dude is scum. hes playing to his coasty, low-content scum meta too.

I'm gonna look at some other popular wagon ISOs too

[SirCakez]

I don't think this is a compromise or lurker D1 elimination either, Penguin always enters games like thats just his playstyle

Versus especially JJH feels like a coin flip

[SirCakez]

VOTE: penguin
I read his iso and pengys basically voting any viable wagon to save himself, dude is scum. hes playing to his coasty, low-content scum meta too.

Does everyone in this game have a coasty low-content scum meta this game or what, i feel like i've heard this about others (like jjh and dunn(?)

[Citation Needed]

) as well.

JJJh is always like this, Dunn I can't get a grasp on yet

[SirCakez]

I shall endeavour into the penguin archives to determine this

[SirCakez]

VOTE: penguin
I read his iso and pengys basically voting any viable wagon to save himself, dude is scum. hes playing to his coasty, low-content scum meta too.

Does everyone in this game have a coasty low-content scum meta this game or what, i feel like i've heard this about others (like jjh and dunn(?)

[Citation Needed]

) as well.

JJJh is always like this, Dunn I can't get a grasp on yet

I am not always like this

In what regard

[SirCakez]

firebringer ripped off my saw game!

[SirCakez]

Gamma wolf? That will help me figure some shit out

[SirCakez]

I'm also interested in looking through the Dunn wagon

[SirCakez]

okay actually maybe I can take this game off lmao this game is solving itself

[SirCakez]

Poor Dunn was right

[SirCakez]

This is gonna be boring for a while we have our next three eliminations set I wish we could autopilot the game or something lol

[SirCakez]

Watch Pooky come in here and CC Sakura with some fake ass PR claim bc he has to

[SirCakez]

That's the main thing we need to get as much as we can from luka/Klick/you/StD before scum NKs y'all

[SirCakez]

Pooky has to die before Gamma

Also yes this makes more sense to me

[SirCakez]

However the way Pooky interacted with Klick when he freaked out about "THE UNIT" is more likely Klick's town as well, well i was already townread Klick anyway.

I'm considering both people in the trial/saw trap basically conftown, I think Alisae or penguin said that there's no motivation from scum to go in it from what we can tell and I agree. Ig someone also mentioned that maybe they were forced to put a scum as one of them but I feel like that's a lot less likely?

[SirCakez]

I think Cakez has bussed before
I think Cakez knows how to bus
I'm not writing Cakez off yet

Don't worry I'm sure this game will find some way to eliminate me before the guiltied scums judging from my history

[SirCakez]

Let's firmly talk about who is sorted or very likely sorted to define the rest

jjh927

Gamma Emerald

Sakura Hana

Alisae

pookythemagicalbear

SirCakez

Luka

Klick

Whemestar

Save the Dragons

tired person
Penguinpower
Katsuki
T3

So 2 in 8?

also depends who Cid is

[SirCakez]

we also now have confirmed scum on both of the day one wagons

[SirCakez]

^

[SirCakez]

Pookys probably writing his fake role rn in the scum pt bc he was overconfident and didn't think he'd get caught so early LOL

[SirCakez]

you'd vote park penguin but not gamma?

[SirCakez]

VOTE: penguin
I read his iso and pengys basically voting any viable wagon to save himself, dude is scum. hes playing to his coasty, low-content scum meta too.

I'm gonna look at some other popular wagon ISOs too

So first we have “Pengy is voting any popular wagon to save himself”
During this game, people have mentioned that Peng just votes whatever the biggest wagon is
But Cakez then also says that Peng has a lurkscum meta, which is fair

I don't think this is a compromise or lurker D1 elimination either, Penguin always enters games like thats just his playstyle

Versus especially JJH feels like a coin flip

… but then we have Cakez saying that Penguin always lurks as either alignment and it’s just his playstyle

Yeah I get how this was confusing. What I was trying to say that Penguin's playstyle is generally like this and that he is actually playing the game even if it looks lurkery, while JJH was just totally absent for a large period of time as evidenced w two prods

My SR on PP is taken from his pattern of voting and the content of his posts here which like I said look like his scum meta. And now we have the knowledge he was the CW to town which always gives me questions, albeit with caution as Gamma was on board.

[SirCakez]

I cannot see any world where Pooky is town lmao he would actually be trying to do literally anything if he was framed somehow here

[SirCakez]

Seems we are going to have to wait THREE DAY PHASES before dayplay has any stakes and it might genuinely just not have any stakes anyway due to night actions

Ya I have no reason to care about anything for 3 actually day phases.
actually wild.

yup
this is brutal

[SirCakez]

VOTE: luka

[SirCakez]

VOTE: pooky
zzz

[SirCakez]

VOTE: gamma cuz ya nobody should have to replace into a confscum slot

[SirCakez]

So we should just yeet Gamma basically

[SirCakez]

what scum role gets more useful later in the game?

[SirCakez]

I have no idea why I am sleepwalking at night or why my body shows up at crime scenes but i think it fits with the theme of the show tbh

Everyone invite Pooky we were all wrong he's town

[SirCakez]

Unvote*
Autocorrect ruined my joke ;(

[SirCakez]

VOTE: pooky yeah the wagons speak for themselves

[SirCakez]

Poor Dunn had Pooky on lock all of day one just to get eliminated as a thank you

[SirCakez]

what if we eliminated one of the confirmed scum

[SirCakez]

VOTE: party boat

ig that's why Alisae was acting like they were invulnerable day one

[SirCakez]

Wheme should definitely claim

[SirCakez]

mm it's gonna be hard for me to get motivated for scumhunting until we at least finish meeting the confirmed scum tbh

So let's do that!

[SirCakez]

yeeting* not meeting smh

[SirCakez]

tbf I don't disagree with the other two

i do. wheme is very towny, and i don't see how anyone could have a read on me. and i checked before i decided to replace in, cephrir was towny.

Ok so who are your suspects? I thought Klicks PoE pool was solid

[SirCakez]

Wtf is wheme doing on this page

[SirCakez]

Ig Wheme and Klick (moreso Klick) can wait to claim til we finish cleaning out the confscum but I definitely need the full picture here at some point down the line

[SirCakez]

there's also always the small chance that Sakura caught something last night

[SirCakez]

I feel like Penguin is self explanatory at this point

[SirCakez]

I think day one is the only useful day to look for partner interactions with Pooky and Gamma really, they got smoked so fast day two that they would have went into antispew immediately

[SirCakez]

I'm finding it really hard to get engaged today when there's no point voting anyone but Party Boat

[SirCakez]

There is point in voting outside of party boat, actually
If scum are indeed limited to using one of their factional powers per player, then we would be in a better position mechanically if we voted out a different scum player in this day phase

Depends on roles though

But if that's the case we have no idea who has what power and what's the optimal order

[SirCakez]

I really just want to stay on Boat even with some mechanical argument
In terms of day play it would be really really dumb to elim someone else

[SirCakez]

How? If we don't get rid of Boat that's just gonna be a perpetual wagon and it's going to make it hard to solve because anybody can just argue "lol we need to get rid of Boat first"

Which is like WHAT IM DOING NOW so let's get rid of him and be done with it so we can progress the game

[SirCakez]

If we don't get rid of Boat that's just gonna be a perpetual wagon

Oh that's true

VOTE: Party Boat

What kinda reaction is this?

[SirCakez]

Wow we can finally play the game today!
Wheme needs to claim today idc about hiding the role cough it up or get yeeted

[SirCakez]

VOTE: penguin
Starting here as my #1 suspect today otherwise

[SirCakez]

I’m not claiming until someone has a good reason for me to

We will eliminate you if you don't claim
How's that reason

[SirCakez]

I don't find JJH to be that scummy, I read the Boat defense yesterday as coming from a legitimate place of trying to find an optimal town strat vs some kind of scum save attempt

[SirCakez]

I want to eliminate someone today, no elim can come down on the line or even might not be necessary if we manage to snipe them all quick. Until it's needed I feel like it's better to have more town voices in thread and not just giving them a free NK on someone highly TRed

[SirCakez]

VOTE: whemestar
I said we would yeet wheme if there wasn't a claim so this is now happening

[SirCakez]

why did we go from everyone wanting a Wheme claim to suddenly everybody saying it's a bad idea and he shouldn't claim

[SirCakez]

T3 or Penguin seems to be the way to go today, I personally think Penguin has been incredibly scummy all game vs T3 having moments of towniness and scumminess but it seems like a lot of people want T3 and I can see the arguments

I have to say I am still harboring suspicions of Wheme but whatever that claim will have to come out eventually and we can analyze it then

VOTE: penguin for now

[SirCakez]

me coming back in time to see hammer

[SirCakez]

I hate this part of the game I don't trust anybody except Sakura

[SirCakez]

I feel like I should throw out my reads and look at people again in a vacuum

[SirCakez]

I think I'm starting today with tired person and JJH main suspects
I agree with TP's assertion that Penguin and T3's interactions don't make sense as S/S

It's probably just JJH
VOTE: jjh

[SirCakez]

I think T3 had to 180 on Penguin because of him being the viable CW
This is more evidence for PP town imo

[SirCakez]

nobody should be getting overlooked at this point, there's only 5 other slots besides yourself

[SirCakez]

With the knowledge that T3 did indeed receive that neighborhood courtesy of Wheme's redirection i find it harder to justify neighborizing a partner making jjh less likely scum, of course it could also be some sort of mastermind plan by Pooky, so if at all i'd prefer to ignore the neighborhood entirely, but Wheme's and T3's flips make that harder. But overall i'm not sure his play matches what i remember from Anything Upick.
SirCakez is a hard sort for me because if he's scum that means Pooky crossbussed with 2 teammates early on, however i know this is possible for SirCakez to do, and apparently it's something Pooky is capable of doing as well. It's just a matter of in that gamestate if that's really what happened.
jjh i've had gut scum pings throughout majority of the game, i specially disliked the "T3 is solving in the neighborhood so he's town", however my issue here is that may have been T3's goal, coz as it's usually said, it's easier to fool 1 person than... however many townies alive were at the time.
PP i've had the opposite, i've had gut town pings, but the play seems more scummy than towny.
TP is someone i have a hard time placing by play, but by predecesor i find it hard to believe Gamma vs Ceph was SvS and T3 seemed interested in dismantling that notion so im inclined to believe i'm right on this.
Bingle i'm not sure how to read so i'm just placing him as town because of the Kawaii meta that Klick provided us.

So with that in mind
jjh > PP > Cakez > TP > Bingle

Scummiest to Towniest is where i stand right now.

You still think PP is scummy despite EOD yesterday?

[SirCakez]

sakura, i agree that gut pings say pp is town but his play is scummy. that's why he's still in my pool. but do you have any reason to town read sircakes? because i don't, and that's what's making me think it's him. he's less scummy than pp and jjh, but he's also not towny at all, and i think that's what makes him scum.

but anyway i agree we're in autowin probably.

I don't understand this post, you're saying JJH and PP are scummier than me but I'm less towny then JJH and PP? How does that compute

[SirCakez]

Bingle why have you been so quiet?

[SirCakez]

ok actually where tf is everyone

[SirCakez]

ok all this "waiting for someone else to do something first" stuff is not giving me town vibes from any of you, it seems like TP is the only one actually trying to solve here

[SirCakez]

oh there was hammer that works too!

[SirCakez]

VOTE: no elim

[SirCakez]

fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

I hate LiLo so much

[SirCakez]

I'm gonna have to do some rereading
I have reasons to think both of you are townie and scummy
I really thought it was Bingle after the hammer so I have to throw everything out...again

[SirCakez]

it would be nice if you guys vote each other because i don't like having to explain why i am town, and also i am obviously town for a bunch of reasons.

i still think it's probably sircakes but the fact that klick was correct on t3 and katsuki makes me think he could be right on sircakes and penguin as well. and also i expected sircakes to kill me, so being alive makes me think i might be wrong.

Or you are alive because you weren't going to kill yourself

[SirCakez]

I know Pooky is watching with glee in the dead thread rn
He's ruined LiLo for me forever

[SirCakez]

Ok we all have interactions with dead scum that look town, Penguin hammered T3 when that elimination wasn't even guaranteed and multiple dead town have said that my interactions with Pooky couldn't be scum. I don't like that you're trying to assert yourself as clear here based on IMO less strong objective evidence then what I see from a neutral PoV on Penguin and myself.

[SirCakez]

And I think it's weird that you're more concerned with clearing yourself first off the bat rather then thinking about who is the scum here

[SirCakez]

I'm not voting anyone for quite a while, I'm gonna be thinking about this a lot

[SirCakez]

and again, you don't have reasons for me to be scum other than that you don't like the fact i'm playing to my win condition as town by attempting to increase the ev from 1/3 to 1/2 by clearing myself. which happened specifically after sakura cleared me and then pointed out how t3 tried to unclear me. it's not that i just randomly came up with the idea.

if i were scum you could actually find valid reasons to see me as scum instead of these silly "oh no you are trying to clear yourself" and "everyone else is cleared more than you are" (which isn't even true, objectively).

I haven't even done ISOs and rereading yet
My posts so far today have been solely based on what's getting posted, I'm not making a serious argument one way or the other yet til I can actually do some analysis

[SirCakez]

it looks like the end of day 1 Dunn wagon was almost all town, only Pooky and Penguin (who is TBD) on there everyone else is flipped town
Gamma and TP were on Penguin who was the CW

hmm

[SirCakez]

i still feel like vca past day one is gonna be absolutely trashed because of all the fuckery with the trial and two guilties
might be worth looking around day five and the T3 wagon

[SirCakez]

My point on that wagon was that everybody except for two or maybe only one slots was town, so the vca is kinda wacky and I think it doesn't necessarily make you scum even though it looks bad at surface level since you were the D1 CW to Dunn. But it really does seem like town mostly just shat itself day one which I mean typical day one large theme

T3 was solo voting Alisae so that doesn't tell us much either

[SirCakez]

this day phase i was both tempted to just lolvote penguin at one point because i liked sircakes entrance and because i was left alive, and later tempted to lolvote sircakes because he's just straight up ignoring the clearing evidence of me being town which penguin pointed out:

what does give me pause is your play around t3's wagon because you easily could have gotten me pushed out that day since sakura was equally willing to vote either me or t3 and only voted t3 because he was the larger wagon.

and i also thought that penguin going after me at day start didn't make sense from scum since why would sircakes go after me (when he voted penguin over t3 earlier meaning he was scumreading penguin), but luckily i reread sircakes iso and i guess he does express later that he suspects me more than penguin.

so i'm back to leaning penguin but i have a few questions to sircakes:
1. what do you think of the above quote? if penguin is town why didn't i push him over t3, considering i was basically the one who made sakura go for t3?
2. what objective evidence do you see that clears you? and what evidence clears penguin other than voting t3 when it was him or t3 on the chopping block?

1. how did you get sakura to vote t3? i don't see where that happened day 5. and you were pushing on penguin before the t3 wagon started adding up so i don't get the second question here
2. when i say objective im talking about the reads all of the dead conftown have stated on me, klick, sakura and bingle all had me as town and we know they were town. that seems pretty cut and dry to me.
the penguin evidence is less clearing sure, i still think that hammer would have been a weird choice as scum there because the elimination was definitely not inevitably t3 or penguin, there was still a week left on deadline and people were already talking about jjh as a potential wagon day five, why not try to pivot there versus giving up and yeeting t3?

[SirCakez]

let me explain my whole thought process yeah


i thought penguin was unlikely to be scum at first because of his cross vote with t3 on day 5. then i didn't die so i decided maybe it wasn't sircakes. then up until post 2964 it looked like sircakes was trying to solve and penguin was trying to go for the easy mislim so i thought it was penguin. then penguing posted 2974 and i thought maybe he wasn't going for the easy mislim and i re-evaluated, and at that point i forgot that sircakes was suspecting me day 6 and townreading penguin, so i thought it'd be easier for a scum penguin to vote sircakes (who i was already scumreading and who i thought was scumreading him) rather than me, so therefore suspecting me was a town move on penguin's part and sircakes later also expressing suspicion of me was scum taking the easy route. but then i remembered that sircakes did express suspicion of me day 6 and did tr penguin day 6 so i'm back to thinking penguin could be scum just going for the easy mislim on me.

but i'm still wary of sircakes because i don't really understand why anybody is clearing him and especially find his comment that he and penguin are more objectively cleared than myself extremely weird, so that's why i asked him what he means by that.

i am finding it really weird today how you are consistently both appealing to me that you are town and still also repeating suspicions that i am scum. it feels to me like you are trying to keep your options open, and the repeated assertions that you are obviously town are not helping.

like i'll be straight up right now, i'm feeling somewhere in the 75-80% chance that you are the scum here because penguin is playing how i'd expect town pengy to be dealing with this while your motivations look very scummy to me

[SirCakez]

i will say that obviously my slot is town so i know ur wrong about it being theater.5 and if you are town then it's crazy to me that you think i'm scum for "distancing" but sircakes isn't.

let me explain my whole thought process yeah

-snip-

but then i remembered that sircakes did express suspicion of me day 6 and did tr penguin day 6 so i'm back to thinking penguin could be scum just going for the easy mislim on me.

how do you go from your slot being obviously town to being an easy mislim in two posts?

[SirCakez]

why cakez over me? I thought you were leaning me?

He had to, it was his only choice left after you voted him. Again, all of his posts and moves here just look like made up stuff to try to save his position.
See;

you are scumreading me for playstyle and it's annoying.

again...no i'm not.

u can say that but it doesn't change the fact that u r. i asked several times and u can't name any reason to scumread me except that cephrir's play could've been scum theater, which again applies to sircakes as well, and then you decide u wanna vote me because i am saying i am clearly town and it's annoying u, which is clearly a playstyle point.

but ok, go read sircakes iso.

let me explain my whole thought process yeah


i thought penguin was unlikely to be scum at first because of his cross vote with t3 on day 5. then i didn't die so i decided maybe it wasn't sircakes. then up until post 2964 it looked like sircakes was trying to solve and penguin was trying to go for the easy mislim so i thought it was penguin. then penguing posted 2974 and i thought maybe he wasn't going for the easy mislim and i re-evaluated, and at that point i forgot that sircakes was suspecting me day 6 and townreading penguin, so i thought it'd be easier for a scum penguin to vote sircakes (who i was already scumreading and who i thought was scumreading him) rather than me, so therefore suspecting me was a town move on penguin's part and sircakes later also expressing suspicion of me was scum taking the easy route. but then i remembered that sircakes did express suspicion of me day 6 and did tr penguin day 6 so i'm back to thinking penguin could be scum just going for the easy mislim on me.

but i'm still wary of sircakes because i don't really understand why anybody is clearing him and especially find his comment that he and penguin are more objectively cleared than myself extremely weird, so that's why i asked him what he means by that.

i am finding it really weird today how you are consistently both appealing to me that you are town and still also repeating suspicions that i am scum. it feels to me like you are trying to keep your options open, and the repeated assertions that you are obviously town are not helping.

like i'll be straight up right now, i'm feeling somewhere in the 75-80% chance that you are the scum here because penguin is playing how i'd expect town pengy to be dealing with this while your motivations look very scummy to me

i am not appealing to u, i am trying to make sense of your reads because they are bad reads and i'm tempted to call u scum for these reads, but if u are town then i want to understand how come u have them.

Here he's trying to talk to me and "understand my reads" but then Peng votes him and:

VOTE: sircakes

u can still unvote.

Immediate desperation vote. If TP is town here nothing has happened that should have suddenly motivated this vote other then needing Penguin to back off. If Penguin was scum then from TP's perspective he just threw the game away. Doesn't make any sense

Also obviously
VOTE: tired person

[SirCakez]

penguin can u give me like an hour to build a big case on sircakes?

And now he suddenly has this big case he's going to build to try to convince you, because he knows he's scum and knows how scummy he looks right now

[SirCakez]

i can't believe I actually had the right person for scum in lilo for once
this never happens

[SirCakez]

I honestly feel like the most incriminating evidence of all for TP from the whole game has been his play today. I've never seen any town do this insane whiplash in claimed reads and stances so transparently based on self-preservation in LiLo ever

[SirCakez]

How do you have a case on me when two hours ago you weren't even sure I was the scum yet? That's the better question

[SirCakez]

cakez - help me understand the motivation for scum!tp to hop on t3's wagon instead of me?

here lets look at the timeline:

VOTE: penguin

finally can continue vote-parking penguin

bye

TP has a self-proclaimed vote park on you here
note that there were obviously not teeth on this push and that it would be easy to disengage as needed (which I now think was intentional)

Well it's looking like it's gonna be impossible to eliminate either jjh or T3 today huh

Sakura is already expressing suspicion of T3 here - scum!TP would be aware that he might need to bus at some point today, but obviously a miselim on Penguin would be better so he's there for now.

VOTE: T3

a T3 vote comes through

Oh yeah, we're at evens
VOTE: No Elimination

Sakura says she wants no elim but starts to get talked out of it by JJH and T3

Let’s see what this button does.

VOTE: T3

another T3 vote comes through

whemestar should never claim here.

i'm fine with voting either t3 or penguin. no limming when we have a confirmed town is a bad idea since all it does is get rid of the confirmed town. in fact our highest ev play here is to just sheep sakura on whomever she thinks is scum, since that guarantees we're not sheeping scum.

continues to express suspicion of you as well as T3 mention. also conspiciously locks himself into a sakura sheep here.

i doubt scum would willingly increase town ev by killing anybody except you.

(lim today > we hit scum 2/7 times. no lim and scum kills you > we hit scum 2/7 times tomorrow. no lim and scum kills another town > we hit scum 2/6 times tomorrow).

who do you want to kill?

this question from TP looking to give him an out on who to vote

They still got Wheme's role to deal with, if i die over that then that's fine lol.
As for who i want to kill, im not confident in anyone right now, i'd say T3 but even that's a long shot.

sakura says T3 again. at this point TP is stuck, he has to vote T3, he asked Sakura who she wanted and he already said the best play for town today was to sheep Sakura.

so the conclusion is TP moved to T3 because he had to. there was absolutely zero traction on the penguin wagon, the only other alternative was wheme which also got no traction because some players decided they didn't want his claim at that point. TP backed himself into a corner and had to vote T3 to keep up appearances or risk ending up off-wagon or in a bad position should he get eliminated (as he did). that's why we're now questioning why he did that today. if he hadn't we probably would have won the game already by yeeting him since that seems to be a major point of contention for you for why he could be town.

[SirCakez]

I know I have a few more T3 posts to look at and that's what tipped me off initially but are the T3 voters looking at the posts in thread and not seeing a very self-consistent narrative that is backed by a reasonable thought process

i am literally sheeping two confirmed towns: klick and sakura.
i also don't really have a read on t3 while i do have a townread on several people.

can u towncase t3? other than by saying he is clearly town.

and look at this here he even fished for JJH to give him a offwagon

i don't normally defend myself, but since my lack of defense recently resulted in my miselimination and lost town a virtually solved game, i guess i'm going to have to make this post.

Very much feels like they're trying to appear to be doing more than they are doing

this case on me is an extreme stretch. i've made pretty clear that i have a possible elimination pool of jjh, t3, penguinpower, sircakez. i removed sircakez from my elimination pool because of klick's last will. nothing else that happened has made me feel any different about that elimination pool, so i am "not doing anything". but saying i'm trying to look like i'm doing something is incorrect. if anything, i should be findable as town for not making any effort to look towny.

and again he still had three town in his elimination pool here too

TP is making it out like he was one of the main drivers of getting T3 eliminated over you Penguin when he basically did the minimum of voting T3 and very little else

[SirCakez]

With regards to Ceph, he had a weird vote and unvote on Gamma at one point, but I also don't think it really makes sense for him being scum because I can't see a clear scum motivation for making the vote in the first place. On balance that vote/unvote is scummy tho

and if we're gonna talk about T3's iso just look at this post, this is exactly what scum say as distancing to keep them open to be able to vote them later without necessarily adding pressure

[SirCakez]

the pool of Penguin/Wheme/TP definitely has a scum in it lol

[SirCakez]

oh another point on it being sircakes.

kyoko posted this then got nightkilled:

Working on a {Gamma, Cakez, T3?, ???} solve rn. I was just reading Gamma's ISO as some recent posts pinged me and I realize now she's scum

confident in scum!Gamma
somewhat confident in scum!Cakez
Mostly pre-flipping T3 into this team based on scum!Gamma's interactions with/around the slot combined with the fact T3 posted that Klick meta for me unprompted. This could be town even with scum!Gamma but I feel like the way Gamma's played around this slot TMIs a buddy

i'll leave the weighing of this up to you.

how does this even mean anything? obviously scum would have had motivation to NK her, two flipped scum are in that pool

[SirCakez]

just look at bingle's will pengy

Spoiler:

Bingle left a last will:

I guess I have to play the game now that I am dead and I only have one more post.


Night Kill Analysis:

If Sir Cakez is mafia he shoots tired person because tired person wants to kill him.
If Penguin is mafia he shoots me so tired person votes Cakez or tired person to get me to vote for Cakez.
If tired person is mafia he shoots me because nobody will vote for me and nobody suspects him.

>> This was not actually useful for much other than ruling out Sir Cakez.


Rereading the game:

I wanted to do more rereading but I got lazy and didn't really do it. I did skim some of the conversations between Cephrir and Pooky and day one and it feels closer to scum theater than a genuine interaction. I don't think Cephrir really tried to kill Pooky at any point during day one. He didn't try to be persuasive and Pooky made no real effort to persuade him or shut him down like he did with Klick or Dunnstral.

Some of Penguin's interactions with Pooky feel almost too bold to be scum and scum? Pooky does like to live in boldness so maybe they are willing to openwolf together. I don't know.

Pooky pushing Cakez did not feel like scum on scum, from what I know of Pooky he likes to have his pushes on teammates be accompanied by theater such as how he talked with Gamma while pushing him. I agree with Sakura & Klick that the interactions between Pooky and Cakez largely clear Cakez of being a potential Pooky partner.


According to Klick's last will: never eliminate Sir Cakez or Katsuki(me) > do kill T3 and Penguin.

According to Sakura's last will: clear Sir Cakez and TP > Last scum is within jjh/PP/Wheme


>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I also think Sir Cakez should be clear but I don't think it is clear Penguin should be the elimination. Rereading the game I think we may have given Cephrir/Tired Person too much of an easy pass into the endgame, I did not like how they changed their mind from cakez to jjh on the other day and I did not like their last post about treating them as confirmed town and claiming they would likely be killed if we no-elimmed while adding me in as maybe confirmed.

If I had to bet I would bet on tired person over penguin being mafia but it is close. I kind of want to vote out Penguin in the end because it would be bad if Klick had the right solve all along and we just forgot about it.

he has the game solved

[SirCakez]

gg all
pooky coached me SO HARD. the credit for like 98% of what I did should go to him lol. the bingle will was a masterstroke, we were leaning to the obvious TP kill until Pooky suggested it.
also big ups to Party Boat for replacing into a doomed slot

[SirCakez]

i am hating myself because when i saw cakez point to the will in my p-edit and remembered pooky could still be active my immediate thought was "it's cakez and I'm being fucked with"

but then i hit submit again...

haha that's definitely not exactly what happened...

[SirCakez]

yes haha TP you were all over me, you deserve plenty of credit

[SirCakez]

Yeah Kyouko you had to go ASAP after that post, lol. You were just too good this game!!!