Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Gimli]

forst

[Gimli]

I agree with dial, vi and sheeple

[Gimli]

Wow, I was gonna come RVS vote Gimli because I have good information that he's Kira, but apparently I need to figure out setup stuff instead?

How is figuring setup stopping you from rvs voting

let me help there
VOTE: Gimli

as for dreams I think I like the slide one, sheep people one and car one

hello all. been a while

hey shifty

im townreading your entrance, is that too horrible?

[Gimli]

ok we're towning

what do you think of DE?

[Gimli]

I'm also locktowning DE

[Gimli]

NO ONE locktown. malice only

are you fearing the townbloc, ydrasse?

or maybe you want to join?

[Gimli]

I'm also locktowning DE

<3

Let's try not to repeat what happened in the last fferyllt game

I have no idea what happened in the last fferyllt game, wanna tell?

[Gimli]

I mean the one where I hammered you

oh, right

fun times all the same and I think I outed VT in that game so it was a fine d1 flip

[Gimli]

*pretends to understand*

oh okay

wait, do we need to get MAJ + 2 to eliminate?

[Gimli]

okay so we know what not to pick

[Gimli]

I don't think 11-12 has anything to do with reviving a player

it has to do with increasing the power of something, which is why its turning a dial, its a movement to accelerate, to increase, or whatever

[Gimli]

VOTE: Von Payne

[Gimli]

VOTE: Von Payne

That's not very nice Kira

~B

I thought you'd have reads and not just dream speculation even in your first point, and I find your subsequent reliance on it to be rather like a convenient way to appear towny

[Gimli]

I think we should probably claim our dream choices out loud, in case that can be valuable information later on, you know, to spot liars

[Gimli]

Why do you think they would have reads? Show your thought process.

I expect black as a townie to speculate not only on mech but also on people

having black's entrance being solely agreeable mech talk (and I agree with maria on the futility of these conversations in a broad sense even tho I will partake them), did not feel like a towny entrance, hence my vote.

[Gimli]

I'm fine with black's latter posting and I think rejoining the game to post some more after saying you're gonna leave points to town

I can see why I'm ticking so hard as town to DE as I'm doing something very different this game - its not on purpose, of course, it's just a mood. I don't know if it's terribly alignment indicative - I can see why maria wants to kill me for 'trying to flow and failing', to take an opposite stance - but his read is right and I think he genuinely believes it so this is all fine.

I like prism's mech talk, and I understand what alisae is talking about - I think they're both making sense. I'll take the nice looking dreams over the known bad thing myself though.

[Gimli]

I can see why I'm ticking so hard as town to DE as I'm doing something very different this game - its not on purpose, of course, it's just a mood. I don't know if it's terribly alignment indicative

I think the read on you is pretty bad. He didn't even really seem interested when I pointed out that there are other games where you!scum fake solve and push early

I think town probably reevaluates the read after that. Scum that is trying to pocket a townie or scum that doesn't want to budge on a buddy yet probably holds firm here

~B

you think there's a decent likelihood the interaction between me and DE is SvS? does scum locktown their buddies early like this?

also, why do you expect DE to reevaluate? he played with me plenty, I think more than your experience playing with me. I think its reasonable to stick with his read and agree to disagree with your read.

[Gimli]

let's all just agree that everyone is playing very different than usual this game and we can ignore meta completely

unshackle yourselves from the burden of past expectations and past lives. forget everything you knew. release the weight from your shoulders. join me and together we can experience mafia in its purest form. no past. no future. only dreams.

I get meta'd in every game I play in and it's already happened this game so while I appreciate your movement and would love to join, I lack faith that we can change the world

~B

are you suggesting that my expectation that you provide reads was me meta'ing you?

I didn't want to go over my early posts at you further since you started to engage, but I disliked your entrance not just for being much dream speculation but for being too agreeable on top of it. its not meta the same way you're discussing my meta with DE. my read wasn't robotic the way you took for anyway.

[Gimli]

Do you think his meta read on you is accurate?

~B

I think he believes it genuinely and isn't faking it. I don't think I have a strict meta other than posting saturday night and not concentrating on watching a dude reacting to another dude reviewing chicken wings on a restaurant (I'm vegetarian and don't know why I like it)

[Gimli]

@SR: not a meta read specific for black, no. I expect it from black cause I expect it from most reasonable players I know to scumhunt or at least take a stance that's not agreeing with random guesses on unknown dreams, hence the vote. you had asked me to show my thought process, and it involves me knowing black from playing with her in the past. I never said meta. I never talked about previous games. having to talk and talk about this so much makes what was a completely reasonable early push to be dried down to logical processes that don't amount to much.

[Gimli]

Like Gimli I don't think you understand that this is still a meta read. You judged my behavior based on your image of me from previous games we've played together. You're not taking into account setup, IRL stuff, and all the other things that could affect my posting

~B

no, you're turning it into a meta read. either this, or every read is a meta read, as long as it relates even minimally to the player posting.

what I saw was you in page 4 of a game with a lot of alignment indicative content, focusing on what I feel is the most uninteresting/unsolvable aspects of the thread. you said it was because you wouldn't have time and because

this is what these 24 hours are for

. Fine with the first part, of course, but this isn't a 'non-scumhunting' phase.

[Gimli]

Like Gimli I don't think you understand that this is still a meta read. You judged my behavior based on your image of me from previous games we've played together. You're not taking into account setup, IRL stuff, and all the other things that could affect my posting

~B

no, you're turning it into a meta read. either this, or every read is a meta read, as long as it relates even minimally to the player posting.

what I saw was you in page 4 of a game with a lot of alignment indicative content, focusing on what I feel is the most uninteresting/unsolvable aspects of the thread. you said it was because you wouldn't have time and because

this is what these 24 hours are for

. Fine with the first part, of course, but this isn't a 'non-scumhunting' phase.

What do you think of 189? I also think you are using meta.

Ive said enough on the subject and had responded to your post already.

[Gimli]

I knew you were scumreading me

Yeah it didn't seem very well-disguised which is why I'm going for the upfront backup plan

DE is bleeding town tho?

[Gimli]

ActionDan - IDK, null?
Gimli - just listen to dragoneater
Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra) - my initial impression on black's posting isn't good. I can see how DE can look over the top fake or whatever, but I was expecting her to see past the early eager leans as not a scummy thing. I don't like her insistence on saying DE should drop the townread on me given *evidence*, and that *failure* to do so makes him scum pocketing me or, whats even more egregious, SvS.
DragonEater70 - town
Kyoko Kirigiri - still town to me
Klick - never saw klick scumming but he says he hates it. underwhelming so far might fit that bill.
Hu Tao - hu taoing.
Prism - prisming.
Aureal - I can see the scumreads, but idk. playing a little different but not trying to appear towny like death note, could be town and still getting into the game.
Catgirl Chipotle (Alisae/MariaR hydra) - I think they are town.
Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra) - I don't know. I think some of dunn's exaggeration might be scum indicative.
Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra) - I don't know but fireisred seems like typical fireisred to me?
Ydrasse - ydrassing.

[Gimli]

Gimli, explain Dunn read?

he said I was being disingenuous about

what is meta

and that it was evidence of me being scum

I felt that even if my statements about it were contradictory (not trying to get into it again as I agree with fireisred its a pointless convo to have) they couldn't possibly be alignment indicative (from my standpoint anyway), and that dunn trying to push an apparent contradiction as a scummy thing was an artifice and not a real thought.

I felt similar about black's push on you: she notices you're townreading me when I wrote absolutely nothing worth anything, but overplays it as if she never saw an early soulread before and declares it scummy.

[Gimli]

after much thinking it through, I have klick as probtown and aureal as maybescum

I don't know if klick goes on to scumread DE in this point in the game, who I think is particularly difficult to miselim and does not look scummy or pushable to scum. looks like a town perspective. maybe I should be using this to also townread black but her logic didn't go down well with me.

aureal doesn't feel comfortable making her reads. I think its possible that playing as a follower in the death note game gave her liberty to be more brazen and energetic as scum. this so far is not looking like her town game, which iirc is a very towny one.

[Gimli]

maybe I should be using this to also townread black but her logic didn't go down well with me

What do you not like about my logic?

~B

lets talk about premature reads for a second

I got an early gut townlock read by DE. everyone else disagreed with it, fine. now the first question is, how likely is the overtly premature overtly confident read something that comes from scum? isn't the brazen overflowing confidence a towny thing? isn't it towny specifically for DE?

on the other hand, let's take your interpretation of it, to highlight the kind of premature read that I think is scummy. you said he was more likely scum pocketing me or SvS. I mentioned before how much I disliked it. to interpret that as pocketing - on page 4 of pre day 1 of a 10 day gameday - is premature. also, how likely is it that townreading me like that is gonna get heat from elsewhere, even if it pockets me? why is this a scum strategy to you?

[Gimli]

I have a horrible headache this evening, so you probably wont see much me today. but I will do my best to catch up tomorrow

[Gimli]

I did vi, sheeple and 11-12

[Gimli]

so people are literally choosing slide for a botched mechanical reason?

[Gimli]

so people are literally choosing slide for a botched mechanical reason?

rule 8 of the setup: unchosen dream that aren't discarded or revealed may appear again.

that implies a revealed dream DOES NOT appear again, we dont need to 'play it out early' for whatever reason

klick and alisae and maria are all wrong

or am I wrong? IDK, you tell me. but from everything I read this makes no sense.

[Gimli]

i don't know if we're choosing slide or not but i think that if it is chosen that it really isn't that bad

have you read setup with attention?

explain to me where I'm wrong.

[Gimli]

Someone has had a revelation!

This slide never seems to end...

It's a water slide! It goes on and on and on! What's not to like?

---

The day deadline is extended by 3 days. All players become loved, negating the first two votes on them. At deadline, if no elimination has been achieved, there is a plurality elimination instead. Ties in plurality are resolved by the

Bad Dream

team's selection in twilight.

Every single negative consequence of this dream can be negated by us just all agreeing that it should be negated and playing accordingly. (Assuming we all agree that the impact of these is negative)

We agree that we're ending the day by the usual deadline. We also agree that when someone reaches majority, we collapse onto them regardless of our reads.

I

think this dream is neutral in earlier days, and negative-utility as we approach ELo. Which probably makes it a good early choice

I think bolded is wrong

who started reading the setup like this? was it alisae?

[Gimli]

we can just discard slide and it will not appear again

STOP VOTING FOR SLIDE WHAT ARE YOU DOING

thanks

[Gimli]

this is wrong and this is scum motivated imo

im looking at maria and klick

[Gimli]

and black

[Gimli]

dream quality is irrelevant here.
promoting revealed dream is always correct here.

Revealed Dream
Unrevealed Dream
Unrevealed Dream

Wolves discard revealed dream? Great, we don't have to deal w/ it. TBH I think we will have to deal w/ that dream eventually? Plurality isn't even that bad, we all should be competent enough to prevent a tie and if a tie does happen then that's informative as well.
Wolves discard unrevealed Dream? That's also fine. Dreamer has 2 revealed dreams to work w/.

unchosen revealed dream is discarded if not picked

have you even read the setup mate

[Gimli]

this is wrong and this is scum motivated imo

im looking at maria and klick

and black

Weren't you JUST tring Klick...

Like yeah slide sucks but the good news is, WE DON'T HAVE TO PICK IT. Because the dreamer gets to choose between the three dreams. Or I guess two because scum can discard one.

But anyway, here's a PSA to everyone:

IF YOU DON'T WANT SLIDE TO HAPPEN ON LATER DAYS, JUST DON'T VOTE FOR IT AND IT WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE GAME.

I aint townreading anyone whose first message in the game is leading us to where scum would prefer

I'll townread klick when he is towny. meanwhile I'm suspecting everyone who stood behind voting for slide

[Gimli]

DE is locktown and haters are gonna deal with it

[Gimli]

DE is locktown and haters are gonna deal with it

Curious what prompted this btw

well, I finally read the setup

[Gimli]

are you reading my posts? I'm calling the slide thing scum motivated. I want everyone on the slide bandwagon flipped. this is how bad I think this is.

[Gimli]

I am reading your posts. I dislike Slide. I just wrote an anti-Slide wallpost.

Are you towning me for being a Slide hater? Because if that's the case that wasn't very clear.

if you were scum, why would be the one caring about slide? to look towny?

don't worry about how I'm reading you. you were right on page 4, stick with it.

[Gimli]

I only voted for slide
Stay mad I suppose

its fine its just the most negative utility you could possibly go with your vote

maybe now other people won't do that

[Gimli]

despite my burning desire for the slide i did not vote for the slide. you can thank me.

thank you ydra you just slided to my towncore

[Gimli]

I'm also the only person that's blatantly advocating pro-slide so like where is this idea that a pro-slide movement is being suggested by wolves even coming from

you, klick and then also black

I named all three of you

[Gimli]

I quoted your post advocating for it
I quoted klick's post advocating for it
the very page I'm doing these things has black saying she voted for slide because dr drew agrees with klick

[Gimli]

I'm also the only person that's blatantly advocating pro-slide so like where is this idea that a pro-slide movement is being suggested by wolves even coming from

you, klick and then also black

I named all three of you

KLICK JUST EXPLAINED HOW TO PLAY WITH THE OPTION!
That doesn't particularly mean he's for against it, it just means that it's a neutral dream.
You said it's a BAD dream. Neutral is not bad.

klick was so neutral about it that dr drew submitted slide because he agreed with klick

[Gimli]

Black apparently picked slide because she was not aware that if it was just not picked we wouldn't see it again. That's different. Klick I think is also under that impression as well.

I've read and I still stand by that even if Slide were to be discarded if not picked, that I want to proceed by using the neutral dream to scout an unknown one safely. To me, starting neutral is just as fine as getting a positive dream. I am okay with neutral dreams, I am also okay with good ones. I don't want bad ones.

I don't think anyone else would agree with what you're saying if they knew we can just not play the goddamn slide and it will go away

and I don't think you understood it either at first and this is mental gymnastics. either this, or you're lying, because when you first advocated for slide you also said something about having to deal with it later.

[Gimli]

This is a fun take

How much influence do you think I estimated 126 to have?

can we just agree to vote on other things?

[Gimli]

Okay Gimli can ypu please go back to townreading Klick now that we know he's not voting Slide?

okay

is the verdict on aureal that she is scum?

[Gimli]

Ydrasse gives me that town feeling
What do you think Gims

I agree

[Gimli]

this page is definitely interesting

[Gimli]

this page is definitely interesting

Honestly it's probably the most embarrassing moment in my history on this site.

I am deeply sorry for my behavior here. PLEASE forget about it.

haha its fine dw about it

fingers crossed for nice dreams d1

[Gimli]

VOTE: actiondan

[Gimli]

I'll make this my one organized post with reads from last game phase. I suggest we make a combined effort to not waste a single post more than we should for thoughts, as other people will surely do that and make d1 even more asfixiating than it already is. while this will feel very 'correspondence mafia', it's not unplayable and I'm sure most people can do that. there are 13 of us and only 100 posts, so that means each player has 7 posts to make on average. if you're going over that, you're removing the chance that someone else can speak up, so try not to if you care, I guess.

I took the time to re-read parts of the game thread while the game was locked, and am gonna do my best to provide content on each player later, but its really late so I'm just gonna post a few thoughts that I had.

Silver Ravens: I like the early mechanical talk cause dunn (I think?) took his time to read the setup before providing advice. in real time I didn't like dunn's push on me, but both heads of the hydra seem to have towny energy. I like GIF's #422 pushing hutao, and also #352 has a light aureal push that I agree with, re: long posts with not a lot of meaningful content in them. I also think that between hutao and aureal there's probably, hopefully, at least one scum, since a bunch of other slots feel towny and they don't. as we can't interact in real time in a super meaningful way anymore, Silver Ravens is definitely safe for d1 as far as I'm concerned. Happy to put it on a townpile.

AD: I don't think we had anything from AD that's particularly telling of his alignment, other than I felt his #200 catch up is overtly critical of content people are posting in a way that I'm not convinced is leading AD to discern alignments, so I get the impression he could be potentially faking the scumhunt instead of genuinely doing so. it has become my go to safe flipping place for this gameday as he is more or less indiscernable/nullscum, but I might change my mind as thoughts progresses.

ali+mariar: I think they're town, I expect maria to scumread me when she is town and I think I expect alisae to be stubborn about mechanics.

aureal: aureal is just very, very different in this game. almost unrecognizably so. she said she changed her style somewhat and isn't doing the things she was doing to avoid getting into tvt battles, and I get that. but she isn't really flowing at all and I felt her interaction with DE was somewhat exaggerated on her end, like she was trying to make him feel guilty for the scumread.

hu tao: just as GIF described, seems to be taking a LAMIST 'I don't know anything' style to the gamethread that feels artificial and might point to scum acting up on being clueless for easy townleans. we just finished a game where hu tao was the d1 miselim and I understand the player's style makes her wagonable, but I also have the feeling that hu tao was kinda towny in death note, which had equally complicated mechanics.

so anyway those are some thoughts before hitting the sack.

[Gimli]

VOTE: hu tao

[Gimli]

UNVOTE:

[Gimli]

VOTE: kyoko kirigiri

[Gimli]

Writing another big text and hoping to find my footing in this game.

I think I should have a strong townread on Prism. I consider how early and often Prism was right on mechanics and their eagerness to parse out alignments as indicative of just a townie player trying to win. I agree with actiondan: it's a townie doing everything a townie should do, unlike us mortals. I do understand their scumread on DE because DE probably does look scummy in this game from an outside perspective, and so I'm fine with #84 being a town early read on the game.

I think #49 is something DE can only write if he is a townie. he noticed I was openly assessing kirigiri and already working with her in real time to get a better grasp of the game. he knows when I'm towning. everyone who found it weird skimmed a real time interaction that was meaningful and probably correct t^t^t between me, kirigiri and DE (yes I'm voting her, I'll change that in a bit - kirigiri come play), botched what the meaning of it was and then showed up complaining that 'nothing happened how can these townleans exist'. but they are clearly there, and for me they're a very important piece of how I'm gonna find where the scum are.

ydra is towny energy af, everyone noticed it so its probably true

kirigiri is almost definitely a townie, flowing very naturally like normal kyoko. every single post I read of her was gut town to me.

I am concerned about the awkwardness coming from aureal. 'something towny' was kind of a defensive joke response to DE's demand, as in if aureal is scum then 'say something towny' puts her on a highlight very early. I don't think town!aureal would be concerned about it, but if aureal is scum, then 'something towny' happened because the question threw aureal out of character.

or something idk im no psychologist

. but Silver Ravens first instinct here is just right in #38. I do think that points to aureal scum, considering how she played the entire moon phase.

I still very much dislike Von Payne's entrance and I'm surprised black started the game like this, but I guess I'll keep reading. in #96 she is talking about thinking it was a 11p, maybe I shouldn't read into it cause faking not knowing anything about the setup is a tired scum move. Don't care much about her replies to me either. This is the slot I need to parse out the most.

I don't think maria wastes her time talking down an early townread like #102. that's a scummy filler post and I think she is scum for it. #112 was bad mech directions that fits well with the rest of her bad and scummy entrance posts. I'll add that maria is hanging onto that one scumread on me from page 3 and has added nothing of value to the game. that's not her towngame, she is scum, let's flip it.

sunflower is a townie, right? I think so. I really liked fireisred's posting today, especially his scumread on me. it makes perfect sense to think I'm scum cause I'm 'talking to a crowd'. that's just how I play mafia, and what he identifies as my scum tells are me replicating my town self as scum. since he played with scum!me a whole lot, he can't find me when I'm town easily. it's definitely comprehensible, + the hydra dissonance between their evaluations of me make is almost certainly a genuine interaction between hydra townies.

townies:

kirigiri
DE
Prism
GIF+dunn
jupiter+fire
ydrasse

probtown?

klick

2 scum in
AD
hu tao
Von Payne
aureal

1 scum in
ali+maria

[Gimli]

VOTE: catgirl chipotle

[Gimli]

VOTE: hu tao

[Gimli]

Okay. So actually I have a theory based on the mod post.

This might be dumb, but scum likely asked if just unvoting would count toward the post count, and scum likely knew before mod posted here that it would. So it got me to look at who did so.

Gimli based on last death note game I just checked never really used unvote before, he would just vote his next person without doing unvote. The only time he actually posted unvote was when he was about to win anyway at the very end of the game.

So yeah, it's probably silly but I think gimli could be scum. Based off that. Dragon do you think I'm looking into that too much? You don't have to reply to this directly, just reply on your next big post you make I suppose.

VOTE: Gimli

I feel like this deserves a response on its own, and I'm sorry for using 4 posts already. I'll try to put up another wall of text today or tomorrow, and then I'll stop using them, hopefully.

in my first post in this gameday that wasn't a vote, I said how important it was for us to not be wasteful with our posts, how many each of us had if we divided it equally, etc. I've been keeping it tight myself, and I see most townies doing the same. I did not know that 'unvote' would count as an extra post. unfortunately I unvoted hu tao. the reason? she was self voting and other people were voting her - I did not want the gameday to end unexpectedly, and since we're getting no votecounts and I didn't want to count, I had no idea how many votes she had. It's my bad, but in my defense I couldn't know 'unvote' counted as a post.

I have, with this one and with the unvote one, made 4 posts this moonphase. hu tao, the person saying I'm scum for sneaking that one filthy post in, made 8. 4 of those 8 posts are him asking what does a VT look like in this game,

complaining that ain't no one answering her

- a piece of information that's in the very first page - and another one of her posts that counted is a self vote. She is already posting more than her fair share. her first (?) content post the whole game is this scumcase against me,

asking dragon's permission to make it

on top of it.

if this player is genuinely thinking these things as a townie then I really can't read her. For me the entire thing is fake busywork, doing bad things for the sake of it as a scum player, and I'm never rescinding this.

I think its hu tao/chipotle/????

could be aureal, could be AD, could be black+drew. gun to my head? I think its just aureal.

[Gimli]

I have a terribly busy day tomorrow so I'm gonna try to make my big post tonight and see if I can reduce the current POE to something more accurate.

I'm going back to black's defense against my initial push in #114. She is saying there that if she is "understanding correctly we should all be talking about dreams for 24 hours" (Payne, p. 5, #114). Black is acting here as if, just because we weren't flipping anyone on previous moonphase, the we also shouldn't be scumhunting. As with many other posts black made this game, I have a hard time believing the sincerity of this. Her next post goes "I'm not a robot (...) if a setup calls for a 24 hour period where we talk about mech then I'm gonna do my best to participate" (idem, #115). This is not however a setup that calls for it. We'll discuss mechanics throughout the game. We'll discuss reads throughout the game.

black's #136 is also a post I disliked: "At first I was thinking scum are more likely to do what Gimli is doing with the aggressive push and eagerness to openly solve during Moonlight because it seems townie and scum want to seem townie. Then I thought about it and realized that there are some town benefits to pushing people even if we can't fade anyone yet" (idem, p. 6, #136). This is entirely filler read with no organicity to it, and I doubt what black thinks when black thinks about mafia has any of this rigidity. She is saying nothing about the quality of my push nor anything that could actually parse out towny from scummy. She is just saying: gimli is pushing me, that can be scummy cause *benefits of scum pushing* or that can be towny cause *benefits of town pushing*.

Again in #145, #165 and #172 these reads on both me and dragon just feel way too weak. #170 complaining that she was 'meta'd in every game and it's already happening this game' reads like black found an opportunity to complain about being scumread and to repackage that as 'meta', as if I was saying she posts more as town or something and not that I think her posting in this game is scummy. #186 is also a bad and lazy post, just picking up my stuff in isolation to suggest DE's read is fake. I see this whole thing as scum who tried pointing out that things that could logically look scummy, instead of a townie trying to work out alignments genuinely.

I like catgirl's #180, I decided I may also scumread maria and alisae for reasons that aren't their alignment. I decided not to get tunnely with that slot today.

anyway my eyes are starting to gaze over stuff, this is not good.

I think (von payne, hu tao, AD) is a solid guess at a scumteam. and if any of them is town then aureal is scum. might still wanna read more maria+ali things, and I need more klick to consolidate on my townread. the rest of the game I wrote off as townies.

and this is my last content post, I'll leave the rest to just vote around unless something egregious comes up. xoxo

[Gimli]

VOTE: Von Payne

[Gimli]

VOTE: ActionDan

[Gimli]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Gimli]

klick, welcome to my locktowns.

I have re-read AD's only content post with attention now and agree he is probably a townie. There are a few good hints of it, once you get over his initial spiteful responses to everybody. first of all the ydrasse townread (also in #229), which I doubt is worded like that if he is scum. second of all the 'this seals prism towniness to me' comment, which I think is just a genuine townie-finds-another-townie moment where AD is excited about towny posting (after seeing so many scummy things he disliked by me, kiri and DE). His opinions on dreams are quite solid and I think they all come from a towny mindset, especially the part where he advises against global effect-looking dreams. we should've listened to AD! sheep people did look like global effects.

So I agree with you, klick. on AD. I really don't think its prism. Maybe it can be catgirl, maybe aureal, but I sure hope its hu tao regardless. and I think kyoko absolutely dunked on scum with her post there.

so we have a catgirl/aureal/hu tao/Von Payne POE, except you are townreading Von Payne. I want you to walk me through it or change your mind, otherwise black will endgame you all.

I think its hu tao and von payne and one of catgirl or aureal after considering your leans and reviewing what I feel should be reviewed. I don't think I can decide on catgirl or aureal being scum or town in this gameday.

this is all townies:
me
klick
kyoko
DE
sunflower
AD
ravens
prism
and if we're lucky, ydra.

[Gimli]

VOTE: aureal

[Gimli]

ofc I'm wasting another post to talk to klick

so, what if you're right about hu tao? I agree that what she is doing here could be a townie. that would leave my scumteam at, I guess you'd say (prism, catgirl, aureal) and I'd say (von payne, catgirl, aureal). that got me thinking of a weird thing I think maria said at the beginning of this moonphase:

Also if ur name is "DragonEater70" "JupiterXV" "Black" or "Aureal" please limit your posting to 0-3 posts a day. 100 posts is manageable but every post matters. A response is not required nor recommended. Thank you for your cooperation.

As other people mentioned, aureal has not posted much at all. but what if she did, just not here? what if she did it in their scumhood, and catgirl did a classic slip of sharing a hood with aureal? it's not that farfetched.

so right in this page catgirl is taking their POE of (hu tao, AD, aureal) but picking the first two over aureal. that immediately made me vote for aureal, because I think now they have enough s^s between them for me to think its either not hu tao or not von payne.

I will take a look at prism with more attention but I want you to also look at von payne. I think both heads are scummy now that I also read the whole lot of nothing drew did this game.

sorry for overposting I promise to stop (please shoot me if I don't)

[Gimli]

Gim's, is the 'whole lotta nothing' scummy from me? Or are you tunneled so much on Black that you will just ignore me all together? I am trying to navigate this day phase when I basically can only post now when on my laptop(I hate switching off of my main when phone posting since my phone hates to remember passwords to this damn site lol)......and when I do post at this time I don't get the engagement I am looking for, which I basically am begging for lol.....which is how I normally get myself into a game and form reads.

All that being said, I agree with you on Hu, after thinking about her some more this feels much less like the town version of her.

I also want more out of Aureal, since she exposes herself as town the more she posts, but she seems to have made like no impression on me, I could go that direction as well.

I do agree with you on Klick as well, probably the first time in awhile I am town reading Klick this early......or even at all lol

And ftr, I do lean town on you Gim's.......there is this bit of 'town leader' vibe that you are putting out that I remember from a game a few moon's ago

So again, lonely late night Drew is here if you want to keep me company

-Drew

okay, drew, I trust you. I think I was barking up the wrong tree with you two. I'm also thinking you're probably not scumming with catgirl, so my solve wasn't good anyway.

but also I want to push through the aureal flip now because I'm much more confident that aureal is scum in relation with hu tao. klick and DE are two townies who I think can read aureal very well, and we've all seen no reason to townread her yet - a player who is a locktownread on page 3 in most games - so that's where the flip goes. hu tao, in comparison, is someone that everyone that knows her is saying this is totally a possible route for town!hu tao to make. so we're not going there.

are you two with me? do you wish the join a wagon that has me, klick AND dragoneater?

also @kyoko: come to aureal with me and lets flip her today. we solve hu tao later. you trust me in this game, yes?

--------------------

as per who the third scum is, I'm starting to like the scumcase against sunflower. on re-read I see a whole lot of bad posting from both heads and it could be scum, but we'll deal with them later.

aureal > catgirl > sunflower would be my solve rn

[Gimli]

VOTE: sunflower

[Gimli]

VOTE: hu tao

[Gimli]

omg hii

I thought flipping hu tao was better than let the gameday drag and it would be pointless to defend her

[Gimli]

I protest I need more twilight time than this

12 hours minimum!

[Gimli]

give town more time

[Gimli]

THANK YOU GIMLI

YOU ARE A HERO

I doubt you're scum after that last post, btw

[Gimli]

CW to hu tao is all townies I think

I think one of the scum has to be sunflower now

[Gimli]

my heart was correct in the end
this is a victory for the ydrasse

I bow to your superior wisdom

you're always welcome in the town core ms lonely wolf

[Gimli]

yeah ok I can see it being catgirl/sunflower/????

aureal's last post while restricted was overflowing with genuine emotions and I don't think some of what she said there are possible if she is scum. particularly the part about wanting to play, needing time, not liking post restriction. I understand scum can feel these things, but not the way she wrote it. I felt it from here.

klick, DE, kyoko, ydra are def townies

I think I'll put silver/ad/aureal on a lower still p town tier

then there's von payne, who I think could be scum but I felt drew was a townie talking to me yesterday. and prism who I can see being scum.

and then catgirl and sunflower are POE'd down scum imo

[Gimli]

if I die tonight I suggest flipping sunflower first

[Gimli]

if I die tonight I suggest flipping sunflower first

i litrrally townread you, what?????

Ignoring Gimli is +EV dw

me and my team of townies will defeat you!!!

[Gimli]

back to towning on prism

[Gimli]

I think its just catgirl/sunflower/von payne at this point

this is a really strong team and we're gonna have a very hard time beating them if I'm right

I want to speak mostly with my towncore (klick DE kyoko ydra), and I really won't waste much of my time talking to the people I'm positive are not playing this game in good townie faith (catgirl and sunflower). getting into a 1v1 with catgirl will be particularly bad, so I'm not replying.

klick where you at

[Gimli]

CW to hu tao is all townies I think

I think one of the scum has to be sunflower now

Hmm, looking at the wagon comp I feel like Catgirl is the most likely scum on Hu, I think it's likely all of us who got on after are town. I'm... not sure of Kyoko yet, it feels kinda bold for scum to so strongly push a town wagon but she'd make sense partnered with Dan and trying to push away from that, or Prism maybe. Von Payne is not quite there in the green block with us yet, I was getting a bit of weird vibes from Drew and his talk about wanting more interaction, like he was trying to hint maybe he didn't even realize there was a post restriction? Like I can almost believe he wouldn't, even in a hydra where his partner should definitely be talking about it with him, because I recently did hydra with him and he uh maybe didn't pay that much attention to me at times

I dunno about the cw and their towniness, I really need more from 2 of them and need to look closer at Ravens.

Pedit: oh wow people are posting a lot, I'm so slow on phone x.x

yes

ok I like what you're posting here aureal, I really want to INVITE YOU TO MY TOWNCORE, but I guess we need more

I think kyoko just legitimately thought hu tao had to be scum for sure. no scum would need to go too hard on it to push it through so I don't think it's something she'd really put herself through just to get townread or whatever. the case made sense and her later dunking on hu tao shows me she was legitimately passionate about the read.

[Gimli]

black: be towny and I'll townread you

[Gimli]

I'm not gonna lie I haven't read any of Aureal's posts

They were big and I did a lot of skimming over the weekend. I've been too busy this week to look at certain people and posts more closely

I have time to check her ISO real quick though

~B

Aureal hates it when I find out she is town lol

Stop ignoring me in our chat and I will explain

-Drew

who do you think is scum, drew?

[Gimli]

@black, catgirl is scum and is pocketing you

figure it out

also figure out who's the third in the catgirl/sunflower/???? team idk who it is

[Gimli]

@black, catgirl is scum and is pocketing you

figure it out

also figure out who's the third in the catgirl/sunflower/???? team idk who it is

I have literally said that both Maria and Ali are both capable of trying(and potentially succeeding) in pocketing me.......and yes if they are they are focusing their efforts on me, not Black

For that reason I could be convinced they are scum, but that is also a shitty reason by itself to think they are scum

Maria might just still feel bad after last game lol

Also Gim's, don't act like I am lock towning you here.....Black is more than capable as a player(really hot take I know lol), so I definitely will not discount her read on you......and like I said, my read on you was from a game awhile ago so who knows if the meta is still viable.

I don't really see Sunflower as scum, but kinda need some time really focusing on them and picking through the fluff that Jupiter has been posting lol

tl:dr.......I am having trouble after Hu's flip and figuring out Aureal is town to have a solid scum read

-Drew

yes I realised she was town, maybe with not the same strength but the same way you did and for the same reasons

the mindmeld is real

there aren't many people who COULD be scum, if we discount each other and we discount aureal. its like (ad, prism, chipotle, sunflower)? do you think silver could be scum?

[Gimli]

@black, catgirl is scum and is pocketing you

figure it out

also figure out who's the third in the catgirl/sunflower/???? team idk who it is

Sunflower is so townie it hurts

Can you explain in detail why you scumread them

~B

mostly I'm townreading everyone else that's not them and not chipotle at some level

a lot of their posts are just pretty bad though, I feel. I expected a lot more depth from fireisred in particular.

why are you townreading them?

[Gimli]

there aren't many people who COULD be scum

There is no way this is a real townie thought

~B

this is a real townie thought though

[Gimli]

time to white knight

i think that it's dangerous to play like gimli's playing right now as a wolf even if it's not particularly "good" town play because boxing yourself in can be a hard thing to get out of. it's a bit shallow at times and more vibes and confidence than maybe deserved but i struggle to see the wolf that does this. i will also hedge on THIS opinion and say i could be wrong but i don't feel like there's malice.

thank you knightie

[Gimli]

there aren't many people who COULD be scum

There is no way this is a real townie thought

~B

this is a real townie thought though

Also Gim's, are you trying to pocket me know?

Speaking to me directly, accusing Chipotle of pocketing us, asking me about who is scum, claiming to mindmeld with me

You a suss boy right now

-Drew

no im trying to solve in the little window of opportunity we have before I hit the sack and this gets closed

we spent one day talking about dreams

we spent a bullshit d1 not talking at all

if my reads are changing rapidly is because I'm always reevaluating in real time giving new information, that's how we win

and yes I have a large towncore. I doubt I'm wrong in anyone inside of it and I will add both you and aureal to it and you will like it. and that's not pocketing, I'm simply playing to town wincon.

[Gimli]

a lot of their posts are just pretty bad though, I feel. I expected a lot more depth from fireisred in particular.

What posts? And what kind of depth are you expecting from fire that you haven't gotten?

why are you townreading them?

Tone and vibes mostly. I disagree with you about fire. I think his thoughts have seemed pretty natural and it feels like he's thinking about the game on a deeper-than-surface level. 624 and 668 in particular

~B

I think those have pretty bad things in them that could come from scum

[Gimli]

if my reads are changing rapidly is because I'm always reevaluating in real time giving new information, that's how we win

Explain how you went from thinking catgirls and I don't make sense as scum to putting us in a solve together

~B

I put you in a team with catgirls first, then I saw that drew made some comment about maria dunking on him as scum against town drew, I felt the phrasing would be awkward if they were scumming together. THEN he appeared towny to me, something you never did (but if you're town thats my fault ofc), and I said you didn't make sense.

but then POE POE POE POE, figuring out hu tao could easily not be scum and working up a team without her, and then in twilight realising it might not be aureal and then trying to make a team work without her. and I always end up trying to solve the entire thing, I'll get close I'll get far I'll find it and lose it and find it again, it's just how it is if you actually try to solve.

I don't expect anyone to follow anything I'm doing but I do expect you to understand its probably a townie

[Gimli]

a lot of their posts are just pretty bad though, I feel. I expected a lot more depth from fireisred in particular.

What posts? And what kind of depth are you expecting from fire that you haven't gotten?

why are you townreading them?

Tone and vibes mostly. I disagree with you about fire. I think his thoughts have seemed pretty natural and it feels like he's thinking about the game on a deeper-than-surface level. 624 and 668 in particular

~B

I think those have pretty bad things in them that could come from scum

Can you answer my top two questions and the one I just asked you

~B

fire is really good and I haven't read anything that spiked my interest. the posts are long but I don't care about the content in them. I guess thats pretty subjective. I'm townreading other people first.

[Gimli]

also @black: isn't this exactly like gimli in the first death note? you know, the one you wanted to kill?

you have the exact meta to townlock me in this game

[Gimli]

there aren't many people who COULD be scum

There is no way this is a real townie thought

~B

this is a real townie thought though

Also Gim's, are you trying to pocket me know?

Speaking to me directly, accusing Chipotle of pocketing us, asking me about who is scum, claiming to mindmeld with me

You a suss boy right now

-Drew

no im trying to solve in the little window of opportunity we have before I hit the sack and this gets closed

we spent one day talking about dreams

we spent a bullshit d1 not talking at all

if my reads are changing rapidly is because I'm always reevaluating in real time giving new information, that's how we win

and yes I have a large towncore. I doubt I'm wrong in anyone inside of it and I will add both you and aureal to it and you will like it. and that's not pocketing, I'm simply playing to town wincon.

Oh I missed this

I kinda get what Ydrasse is saying now, this seems like such scum bullshit that it can't come from scum

But, nah son.....this ain't it......just coming off as bullshit

-Drew

sorry but why would I even try to pocket you?

since you're calling my posts and reasoning bullshit, let me ask you: have you read my progression on aureal, have you read yours? did you noticed I called aureal town BEFORE you've done so? do you not think me realising aureal's alignment won't also affect how I'm reading everything else?

it's like you need this dumbed down so hard to even begin to understand easy things. I miss klick and DE, y'all just hard to work with. there.

[Gimli]

it's like you need this dumbed down so hard to even begin to understand easy things. I miss klick and DE, y'all just hard to work with. there.

why so mean.

as mean as drew was to me calling my reasoning bullshit, twice

[Gimli]

there aren't many people who COULD be scum

There is no way this is a real townie thought

~B

this is a real townie thought though

Also Gim's, are you trying to pocket me know?

Speaking to me directly, accusing Chipotle of pocketing us, asking me about who is scum, claiming to mindmeld with me

You a suss boy right now

-Drew

no im trying to solve in the little window of opportunity we have before I hit the sack and this gets closed

we spent one day talking about dreams

we spent a bullshit d1 not talking at all

if my reads are changing rapidly is because I'm always reevaluating in real time giving new information, that's how we win

and yes I have a large towncore. I doubt I'm wrong in anyone inside of it and I will add both you and aureal to it and you will like it. and that's not pocketing, I'm simply playing to town wincon.

Oh I missed this

I kinda get what Ydrasse is saying now, this seems like such scum bullshit that it can't come from scum

But, nah son.....this ain't it......just coming off as bullshit

-Drew

sorry but why would I even try to pocket you?

since you're calling my posts and reasoning bullshit, let me ask you: have you read my progression on aureal, have you read yours? did you noticed I called aureal town BEFORE you've done so? do you not think me realising aureal's alignment won't also affect how I'm reading everything else?

it's like you need this dumbed down so hard to even begin to understand easy things. I miss klick and DE, y'all just hard to work with. there.

I will answer in order:
Why are you speaking directly to me to appeal to me then?

No
No(my town read on Aureal is based of one very telling post)
Why does that matter?
Again, how does this matter?

it's like you need this dumbed down so hard to even begin to understand easy things. I miss klick and DE, y'all just hard to work with. there.

why so mean.

as mean as drew was to me calling my reasoning bullshit, twice

I am a vibe reader my man, I never said any of your reasoning is bullshit......I am just not buying what you are selling at the moment.

I am not worried about the specifics of what you have done, but why you have done them

-Drew

I'm not selling anything, I'm solving, and now I'm gone, goodnight

[Gimli]

first and also NO NO NO WHAT THE HELL THEY KILLED MY ONLY FRIENDS

[Gimli]

its catgirl and prism + 1

n1 was hilariously poor, the 4 of you put almost no solve in

I'm amazed how many hours fireisred managed to metadive me and still get the wrong conclusion

spending three real life days being tunneled without answering was so annoying

[Gimli]

fire: you don't have to metadive if all you're gonna do is reinforce your own conclusion no matter what you read, you know

[Gimli]

you can flip me at will but flip catgirl next, and then prism

we're still gonna lose anyway

[Gimli]

prism was townreading catgirl for disagreeing on mechanics which is a horrible reason to townread catgirl or anyone for that matter

prism's early tunnel on DE was artificial and very poor, if she is a good and seasoned player none of that happens. also the read on hu tao was so perfect that feels exactly like TMI.

I think the last scum can actually be AD because the way he ultra townreads prism early, could be a scum buddy cheerleading on a partner's good looking posting.

I feel lonely and friendless in this game.

[Gimli]

prism was townreading catgirl for disagreeing on mechanics which is a horrible reason to townread catgirl or anyone for that matter

prism's early tunnel on DE was artificial and very poor, if she is a good and seasoned player none of that happens. also the read on hu tao was so perfect that feels exactly like TMI.

I think the last scum can actually be AD because the way he ultra townreads prism early, could be a scum buddy cheerleading on a partner's good looking posting.

I feel lonely and friendless in this game.

you are making shit up as u play
It is actually crazy

There is a gap between my top 2 and the rest. 4-8 are pretty interchangeable. I am for now taking the townreads on Gimli for granted.

Catgirl Chipotle is my only townread because I don't think Alisae would continue to disagree with Dunnstral and I mechanically as scum

. (Well, maybe if Ravens is scum too, but not going there)

say what again, catgirl?
say what again, prism? oversimplified, huh?

[Gimli]

It’s actually criminal what drew got left alive with the role he has
Actually crazy

that is true but you favoured the players with the good reads instead of the players with the good role

[Gimli]

Hi gimli do you want to be friends

yes I really do actually

[Gimli]

its catgirl and prism + 1

n1 was hilariously poor, the 4 of you put almost no solve in

I'm amazed how many hours fireisred managed to metadive me and still get the wrong conclusion

spending three real life days being tunneled without answering was so annoying

ok cry about it im allowed to do what i want during the three-day long night phase and i shouldn’t have to be solving during the night phase -

brilliant

can we make a deal that if we flip one of the people I'm pretty sure are scum (catgirl, prism) then von payne will add me to night phase so I can put proper work in? it'll be last last week of being able to play some mafia and I'd like to try solving this

[Gimli]

gimli you low key piss em off like idk im more willing to treat fire’s read on you with a grain of salt because meta is not always accurate but like dude you’re just
Ugh

listen, alisae is right

you had IMMENSE power

what you did with it was not great, I'm sorry

now you can flip me cause I piss you off or you can flip scum instead idk you do you

[Gimli]

stop calling me crazy, alisae, thanks

[Gimli]

Before anything let's try to look for who DE hid behind shall we? If klick that would suck. I'm going to iso now.

Ten bucks it’s Gimli

ten bucks it was just klick

occam's razor and all that

[Gimli]

Is that out of line

yes

[Gimli]

oh god thanks AD

that's... that's good, I think he actually did go ahead and hide behind aureal

[Gimli]

klick kill also makes the most sense when aureal is scum

[Gimli]

so we're back to aureal/catgirl/? which I think should be prism anyway

okay I can be in peace with this game now

[Gimli]

ofc I'm wasting another post to talk to klick

so, what if you're right about hu tao? I agree that what she is doing here could be a townie. that would leave my scumteam at, I guess you'd say (prism, catgirl, aureal) and I'd say (von payne, catgirl, aureal). that got me thinking of a weird thing I think maria said at the beginning of this moonphase:

Also if ur name is "DragonEater70" "JupiterXV" "Black" or "Aureal" please limit your posting to 0-3 posts a day. 100 posts is manageable but every post matters. A response is not required nor recommended. Thank you for your cooperation.

As other people mentioned, aureal has not posted much at all. but what if she did, just not here? what if she did it in their scumhood, and catgirl did a classic slip of sharing a hood with aureal? it's not that farfetched.

so right in this page catgirl is taking their POE of (hu tao, AD, aureal) but picking the first two over aureal. that immediately made me vote for aureal, because I think now they have enough s^s between them for me to think its either not hu tao or not von payne.

I'm reposting this cause I think it's a good theory on aureal/catgirl s^s

also @GIF cause he probably skipped this post

[Gimli]

Also is it dirty if I nigh-locktown AD just for finding that hider crumb first and sharing it lmao

lock that townie in

[Gimli]

gimli can you explain what changed your mind on Aureal the last phase?

she pocketed me

[Gimli]

gimli can you explain what changed your mind on Aureal the last phase?

she pocketed me

can you elaborate

like take a mental pic of your progression there and show me how it changed and what changed it? if you can

yes

the bottom line is that I started to feel bad because her last post before I hammered hu tao felt really emotional and I felt it at a personal level, especially the part of her saying she wants to play the game, she wants to play with this lineup but the post restriction isn't allowing her to. I have debated over this with myself in my personal PT (that I made to mostly scream at von payne and sunflower like an opossum).

so it was basically this: she just appeared to have pretty genuine emotions before I hammered her. and I think the fact that she was townlocking me in that post, even though the reasoning was the worst, got me wanting to have her by my side and wanting to townread her. and then, twilight was super chaotic, and I was really sleepy, and grumpy, so my thoughts were rushed in and not that elaborated.

I did come into today not having aureal in my near solve though, so that's really bad and totally on me.

[Gimli]

Can I just say how ironic this is considering you openly said you're going to "not talk to any of your wolfreads and ignore them?" I'm not as sold as my hydra partner is on you being a wolf Gimli but when your reads change entirely overly irl days with barely any posts in-between in some instances to justify those flips it's odd. Then to have the confidence to go "My wolfreads are so correct that I'm going to ignore them!" Like, to me you have to be a wolf making this up or this is a new level of egotistical delusion that I haven't seen before.

Let's not forget if I remember correctly a lot of this was made during the first moon phase.

Spoiler: some of my PT work

trying an experiment here to see if I survive day 2

I'm ISOing a random guess at a scum team: klick, catgirl and actiondan

catgirl: post #91 is very strange commentary post. I do not believe maria cares this much about people "talking about dreams so much" that she has to make any comment on it. *note to self: one post in and I'm already tunneling this slot*
#100 is bad mech as we all know
#102 is another comment that I just don't see maria feeling the need to make when she is a townie. it's clear that kyoko is either towning or emulating a towny perspective on dream guesses: yes the dream guesses are supposedly NAI, but can't there be towny ways to do that? I see no reason why they COULDN'T, and I see no point in maria talking down an early townlean like that unless she has reasons to either scumread the player or to scumread kyoko. again, filler commentary that sucks.
#112 is bad mech again

then klick finally shows up... repeating catgirl's bad mech reasoning. it's kind of a bad post, kinda awkward idk. post #126

AD shows up with #200. I remember seeing towny things in this post, but are they there really? it starts really bad with spitey comments that don't say anything about anything. I do kinda like the post, though. let's see how this goes.

catgirls #212: still scum. #215 is how scum townreads a towny. I should maybe bring this up tomorrow.

AD's #229: yeah I don't think AD is scum.

ok so like, catgirl is scum. but who is it scum with? my first impression is NOT with AD

and if both AD and hu tao are townies, then either klick went full TMI on d1, or klick is just a townie with good impressions.

I think the best defense for town!klick is that he tried a counterwagon to town!hu tao and also to maybe town!AD

he did go to aureal but I think it makes sense and I'm not so sure if aureal is indeed town or if she just pocketed me really hard.

I have to find other partners for catgirl anyway. I wonder if prism fits the bill.

yeah I don't think its aureal either

so prism, there's a lot of hmmmm stuff about her, isn't there? should be worth exploring

I don't hink #84 is such an organic thought on re-read. it feels just too much like posturing and making logical sounding posts that don't amount to much.

catgirl and prism are having a little disagreement on mechanics but it does NOT mean absolutely anything wrt their alignments, of course. what's worse is that prism used this later on to justify having a townread on the hydra because she 'doesnt think alisae would disagree with me on mechanics'. I'll catch that post and put here when I find it.

#158 also doesnt feel like a real thought and if prism is a townie and this is what she does as a townie then im not impressed at all and I think she is just not a very good scumhunter (in before scum dragoneater)

I will also note that the townread on hu tao could easily be TMI on her part. and that's because all the possible wagons were lending on townies anyway, so posturing with a defense of hu tao gives you townpoints.

#195 also just sounds like bullshit and not a real read.

I have to really case prism if I wanna put this through though.

I'll note that catgirl's #212 "I find Dragon's posting towny and I don't understand the townread's on Prism's slot.
There posting is very well written like reading a royal script, but I would've come to expect that as either alignment. If any of the people townreading them wish to expand more on why that would mean a lot" I once again have a problem with maria/ali having a problem with people's reads that don't talk about anyone specifically and that don't have a read on prism or anything like that. again, this is filler, this isn't solving.

#215-#216 is a whole lot of awkwardness from these players. I think they have high svs equity and I hope to god I'm right and getting somewhere with this.

I think its prism/catgirl and then, lets see...

I think AD townreading prism like that happens when he is a townie and she is scum or whatever but not when they're scum together, I don't think. or maybe? idk

I'll trust that ydra is town. I think I'll trust that klick is town.

goddammit I don't think its sunflower man. maybe its aureal after all? shit.

[Gimli]

I do wanna talk to fireisred at some point

[Gimli]

I do wanna talk to fireisred at some point

he's not here today
he's doing normal person things like birdwatching with friends instead of fueling his hopeless mafia addiction

lets birdwatch from here!

let me show you an amazing bird

[Gimli]

THEYRE SO CUTE. SCHJDSHJDSH

meet the common waxbill! there's a whole lot of nests of these where I live, I'll take a pic and send over if I find them and am still alive in this game

[Gimli]

blasts you. this is the mourning dove and they have no thoughts in their head

omg his belly looks like cotton

beautiful

also I don't think you were mean, its a game where we get upset with each other, its fine

[Gimli]

I'm voting for Superman, DND, and Parts.

Noticed Gimli's 1050 when I scrolled back through. Perhaps a bit too over the top for town, but I'm unfamiliar with his meta. Plenty of town players do this. I'm still not very worried about it today.

I'll vote these same things, as I think those have less odds of being universal effects like the d1 one was

[Gimli]

Von Payne's role can go either way in reality, but my first instinct was that it was a scum role.

There are two good design dynamics for it. The first is as a town PR that puts pressure on scum to break into the block. This is a scattered and incohesive dynamic when you throw in the dream mechanics on top of it. The second one is a scum PR that enables a good deal of strategic deepwolfing and thread control. I need to know more about the setup to make a reliable guess, but my instinctive one is the second.

I kinda dig the idea of von payne as a scum role but I think they've been pretty town in different moments of the game

I should probably revisit this read later

[Gimli]

thread control is everything

[Gimli]

@jupiter: for instance I felt like I was condenmed coming into this gameday, especially with the only players I feel can actually read me gone from the gamethread

having 3 full days of just watching people progressively scumreading me with no antithesis to it was pretty unnerving. this role in scum hands is just as powerful as in town hands, I think.

[Gimli]

@aureal: what did dragon do in death note? I think I forgot

[Gimli]

gimli town, may revisit

[Gimli]

everybody knew who the detective was, aureal. DE didn't misplay anywhere near as badly as you're suggesting here and it feels like you're just throwing a narrative to try escaping the implications of his death

I also sincerely believe now after re-reading and remembering dragon's d1 that he would hide behind you and expect us to know what it meant if he woke up dead

[Gimli]

everybody knew who the detective was, aureal. DE didn't misplay anywhere near as badly as you're suggesting here and it feels like you're just throwing a narrative to try escaping the implications of his death

You mean

after

Dan told them not to wagon him? Four townies voted the detective in quick succession there, and Klick even made it clear the next day that he still hadn't figured out who the detective was in spite of all that.

You can say it's a narrative all you like, I don't blame you for it. I'm just frustrated with Dragon here and I can't even really talk to

him

about it now. You're just gonna have to see my flip to accept my reasoning on what happened, I expect, which is disappointing but I'll try to do what I can in the meanwhile.

you're giving me pause rn

if you're town it would be absolutely horrible to flip you

I'll keep an open mind

also @AD: consider yourself a double voter. I'll sheep you for the rest of game. you wanna flip sunflower, lets flip sunflower. clearly you have the better grasp of this thing.

[Gimli]

also @AD: consider yourself a double voter. I'll sheep you for the rest of game. you wanna flip sunflower, lets flip sunflower. clearly you have the better grasp of this thing.

do you even scumread me

no but I don't have my partners in crime (DE and klick) to ping pong reads with me, which means I'm a much weaker townie now than on d1. if kyoko wasn't busy I'd have kyoko. I'm confident AD is town and has a better grasp of this game than I have, if he has a solve that's countering thread flow I want to support that.

I guess that's really annoying to you and I sympathize with it but also I had to endure n1.

[Gimli]

I think jupiter is really towny tbh (and yes I'm still sheeping dan push comes to shove)

@drew: it was late, I was trying to use twilight to talk things through and generate reads while you were saying I was reeking of bullshit or whatever, while you yourself was cosplaying as a potato the entire d1. I didn't *storm off*, I simply went to bed cause it was late. I was a little appalled that you thought that looked like an appeal to emotion. and that this is still something that's crossing your mind or affecting your read on me. I don't know if I can parse out bad play from scum with the two of you (you and black), but from black I expect a lot more.

[Gimli]

scum fearkilling the best townie in the game makes sense, especially if aureal is scum since klick was already onto her d1

+ if I'm right about chipotle then the kill just makes perfect sense

[Gimli]

scum fearkilling the best townie in the game makes sense, especially if aureal is scum since klick was already onto her d1

+ if I'm right about chipotle then the kill just makes perfect sense

i love klick and his approach to the game but i don't think he's particularly close to the scariest townie here. there's a lot of louder/stronger voices that will drown him out and some of them have to be town

if catgirl and aureal are both scum, then klick was on both of them throughout d1

he also had precise townreads on hu tao and, to me at least, probably AD as well

he also had a townread on me that would be inconvenient for scum as it appears, to me at least, that scum wanted to push through my flip d2, as chipotle's posts at the beginning of the day make clear.

[Gimli]

i am as ever too tired to do this Immediately in the moment but everytime i read a sunflower post i feel like i am confused by the route that they're going or like the conclusions they're making about stuff it doesn't feel natural. maybe in my head i have already flipped the slot as wolf and therefore am not giving them enough space to like be towny to my brain but i feel like the things that they care about and talk about really are not... good? productive?

like idk the klick comments just now seem off to me. i think maybe i am unhappy because there was a lot of meta talk and a lot of just random talk too when there could have been a lot more actually going on in the night neighborhood but it was kind of squandered. i think me feeling like it was wolf theatre probably stems from it not doing a lot for me even though i don't really have a basis of what would be "enough" atm.

yeah I agree with this as well, talking shit about the scum NK is a bit nonsensical as it leads nowhere, as opposed to anything else e.g. reading klick's posts to take in the perspective of a townie who was likely to have >rand good reads in the game.

[Gimli]

Gim's, is the 'whole lotta nothing' scummy from me? Or are you tunneled so much on Black that you will just ignore me all together? I am trying to navigate this day phase when I basically can only post now when on my laptop(I hate switching off of my main when phone posting since my phone hates to remember passwords to this damn site lol)......and when I do post at this time I don't get the engagement I am looking for, which I basically am begging for lol.....which is how I normally get myself into a game and form reads.

All that being said, I agree with you on Hu, after thinking about her some more this feels much less like the town version of her.

I also want more out of Aureal, since she exposes herself as town the more she posts, but she seems to have made like no impression on me, I could go that direction as well.

I do agree with you on Klick as well, probably the first time in awhile I am town reading Klick this early......or even at all lol

And ftr, I do lean town on you Gim's.......there is this bit of 'town leader' vibe that you are putting out that I remember from a game a few moon's ago

So again, lonely late night Drew is here if you want to keep me company

-Drew

okay, drew, I trust you. I think I was barking up the wrong tree with you two. I'm also thinking you're probably not scumming with catgirl, so my solve wasn't good anyway.

but also I want to push through the aureal flip now because I'm much more confident that aureal is scum in relation with hu tao. klick and DE are two townies who I think can read aureal very well, and we've all seen no reason to townread her yet - a player who is a locktownread on page 3 in most games - so that's where the flip goes. hu tao, in comparison, is someone that everyone that knows her is saying this is totally a possible route for town!hu tao to make. so we're not going there.

are you two with me? do you wish the join a wagon that has me, klick AND dragoneater?

also @kyoko: come to aureal with me and lets flip her today. we solve hu tao later. you trust me in this game, yes?

--------------------

as per who the third scum is, I'm starting to like the scumcase against sunflower. on re-read I see a whole lot of bad posting from both heads and it could be scum, but we'll deal with them later.

aureal > catgirl > sunflower would be my solve rn

this is me trying to convince a bunch of people to move from hu tao onto aureal

according to alisae thats me being 'obviously svs' with aureal

a fake read from scum

aureal is doing a good job of maybe convincing me she aint scum but alisae is doing an even better job at spewing her

[Gimli]

Ok, throwing away your eod1 post, this is what makes me think you are townier than Black thinks.

I still lean more town on Aureal than you(at least if I am understanding your words here), but I could see a Chipotle scum world........and I still think one if not both of their heads are pocketing me, I know they won't admit it(and I am trying not to make it a part of my read on them, but I can't shake that feeling.

I feel like D1 me(and maybe Black?) would have considered moving if it wasn't onto Aureal

I'm close to rescinding my townlean on you two, idk. neither of you is playing your town games. I have to revisit.

I have to revisit so much of this game.

I do feel, however, that prism is goodposting enough in this gameday to be a townie and I think I cleared everyone else. I'm now convinced aureal and catgirl are just scum. I think aureal's d2 has been kinda poor, all in all, and not how she'd approach the game as a townie, especially when it comes to defending herself from the hider thing. and that last response to ali was very awkward and the nail to the coffin for me wrt that read on both slots. its just a gigaton of svs stuff.

[Gimli]

yeah I agree with this as well, talking shit about the scum NK is a bit nonsensical as it leads nowhere, as opposed to anything else e.g. reading klick's posts to take in the perspective of a townie who was likely to have >rand good reads in the game.

unless im an idiot which is always possible there's a mechanical chance that klick wasn't the nightkill (and i thought that seemed more likely at first, although i get now that it's a small chance) and i wanted to make sure that was resolved. that was my reason for bringing it up

yes, I get it.

I don't think its a good idea to have any townie claiming the klick kill cause better keep our TPR hidden.

either way I suppose I'm convinced enough that jupiter is a townie that I'm no longer interested in poking at you two, but that ydrasse post resonates strongly with me regardless in that I think there's no benefit in downplaying the klick kill as 'odd'. maybe you think it was a bad kill, prism agrees, but that's entirely subjective and the likelihood of it being scum is just too high. I don't see the point in not taking it at face value anyway.

[Gimli]

maybe I could give prism townpoints for disliking the kill cause klick isn't such a strong voice and is pushable, meaning it was other slots that did it. I can see her never agreeing to go ahead with that n1 kill. but anyway that's not a very strong read or anything.

its getting late ig.

[Gimli]

I kind of adore you, maria, too bad you're annoying af scum this game

[Gimli]

ActionDan

Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra)
Kyoko Kirigiri
Prism
Aureal
Catgirl Chipotle (Alisae/MariaR hydra)

Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra)

Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra)

Ydrasse

dis where I'm at, I guess I need more kyoko

@maria: yeah, I'd say I could townread you if you were a townie but that just proves I am tunneling you from your very first posts so its a waste of saliva for everyone involved

[Gimli]

[Gimli]

thats some pagetop

[Gimli]

Actually this will be my last post for awhile

Hu Tao

(7): Kyoko Kirigiri,

Von Payne, Catgirl Chipotle

,

Aureal

,

DragonEater70, Hu Tao, Gimli

Sunflower

(3):

Silver Ravens, ActionDan

, Ydrasse

Aureal

(1):

Klick
Gimli (1): Sunflower
Silver Ravens (1): Prism

2 wolves on wagon makes sense to me. Von Payne is inno. Gimli could be 3 but I'm only going back there once Ydra and/or Kyoko flip villager.
Ydra is TMI'ing through the entire game so it makes sense for her as a wolf to want to be offwagon.
The other vanity votes are likely things that are just coming from town in this gamestate.

idunno, I really think it just has to be Kyoko + Ydra + Aureal but if I color in our reads with that last votecount, we have something which is very much so just realistic.

This is a horrible read list and your reasons here are pretty garbage too. You're setting up miselims back to back from what I see

ActionDan
- Maria townread, go ask her about it.
- Pointing out the hide target does point towards them being town but its something a wolf could and should consider doing.

Gimli
- 1133 is bizarre enough to want to kill other things
- the conclusion I can therefore come to is wolf asset

Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra)
- fellow slide supporter
- very much so just doing their own thing
- op role

Prism
- has pretty much mostly been doing their own thing and doesn't seem like they're doing anything that is aimed towards a wolf gameplan.

Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra)
- Maria Townread, go ask her about it
- Nothing they've done makes me think they could be suspect.

Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra)
- to me when I see them post I just see obvtown

Aureal
- an outed wolf

Ydrasse
- Has been TMI'ing throughout the entire game.
- Reasons to townread are not as good as the reasons for everyone else. This is just an objective fact.
- Self-declared "Deepwolf"

Kyoko Kirigiri
- Interesting how Ydra has been TMI'ing Hu Tao as town while Kyoko is on the wagon w/ Aureal.
- Aside from that I don't rly got much of anything.

like what is this even. you calling a bunch of slots just town for not even stating your reasons for them. I cant even follow a single read here, (maybe but the one on ydresse that I need to recheck after) and then you say get my POE and then flip gimli after? Your entire "scumread" on me is based on a poe that then you check the vc to make sense of it that way? this is such a lazy alisae scum hunt that if you're town here I tell you that you're worng on me and you need to put in better work there and if you're scum, its a pretty shallow build up to this and I'm not sure why no one else called on it.

I've been calling them scum since forever

I didn't reply to that specific post cause there's no point in me repeating myself, I guess. but I do agree with everything you said here.

[Gimli]

Thank you for being our first guests and for taking your shoes off before you came in

I kinda want to recruit Aureal tomorrow. Not only is she probably town but I think she'll keep the vibes mellow ya know

~B

Oh crap what if I killed Aureal by saying this

Quick somebody scumread Aureal

also is it just me that is alarmed by this? this to me feels like scum setting up to invite scum with their "looks very towny" neighborizing/ night talk enabling role.

I called (von payne, aureal, catgirl) on d1, btw. atm, considering how you and prism are posting, I think that is the scum team.

[Gimli]

ActionDan

Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra)
Kyoko Kirigiri
Prism
Aureal
Catgirl Chipotle (Alisae/MariaR hydra)

Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra)

Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra)

Ydrasse

dis where I'm at, I guess I need more kyoko

@maria: yeah, I'd say I could townread you if you were a townie but that just proves I am tunneling you from your very first posts so its a waste of saliva for everyone involved

let me update this

ActionDan

Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra)

Kyoko Kirigiri
Prism

Aureal
Catgirl Chipotle (Alisae/MariaR hydra)

Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra)

Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra)

Ydrasse

and that's the game and thanks for playing

[Gimli]

[Gimli]

Last few pages makes me like all slots more and catgirl and von even less.

hiiiiiii

and yes those are the scums

[Gimli]

ydra is obvtown and whoever thinks otherwise is not paying attention

[Gimli]

VOTE: aureal

lets speedrun through aureal and catgirl and von payne tyvm

[Gimli]

i feel like every mafia game i play people get worse at identifying what a wolf would actually do in a situation when they present a scumread

so true bestie

[Gimli]

I would flip catgirl first cause they're more obviously mafia than aureal via posting

von payne voting ydrasse reeks of desperation and they forming a wagon on her feels like we just got this

days will be long in the scum PT, friends

[Gimli]

von payne voting ydrasse reeks of desperation and they forming a wagon on her feels like we just got this

You're wrong. I didn't even know about the Dragon/Aureal thing when I was pushing her

I'm down to fade Aureal. I think we wait for a claim and Drew and I also need to figure out who we're neighborizing

neighborize ydra cause its her last day alive in this game, if you're a townie that is which I doubt strongly at this point

[Gimli]

reading through some things i kind of feel like if aureal is a wolf von payne is one too based off of earlier defending. the hider thing is enough for me to be fine with aureal dying i think but i’m meh about her flipping wolf. is more of a “i hope so” than an i know so.

also i think that the in thread neighborhood role feels more elegant in my heart to be a wolf role. seems more in line with the game design i would expect for this game than it being town

I will flip catgirl this gameday if thats your preference btw

[Gimli]

OK. So I am circling back to thinking it is possible that what you described is correct but you are mafia and somebody has a role that allows for this to happen, and you unintentionally let this slip.

this is a possibility

I'll say also that if von payne is a townie, then sunflower is the most likely scum partner to aureal/catgirl

I hope we have time to flip everyone we need to flip in order to win this

[Gimli]

10er

flip aureal - scum NK

8er

flip catgirl - scum nk

6er

this is bad because we cant flip the three possible scum partners to this, which is von payne, prism and sunflower. game could get really hard.

also if von payne is a townie they need to wake up and start solving and paying attention to the game. not knowing the implications we have on aureal means black just isn't even reading the game at all.

[Gimli]

also if von payne is a townie they need to wake up and start solving and paying attention to the game. not knowing the implications we have on aureal means black just isn't even reading the game at all.

Don't you think a scum partner would get the fact that their partner has a soft guilty on them?

yes, that's the problem I have with my solve rn, which may point to sunflower or prism instead.

[Gimli]

if we discover that scum has a mechanical ability that reveals dreams to them, I think sunflower should be flipped before von payne at any rate

[Gimli]

I did a scumslip like this in the death note game, its not farfetched that jupiter just spoke a whole lot more than he should've.

[Gimli]

Shouldn't you start looking at worlds when we're a villager? It doesn't hurt considering you are so locked on us being a wolf that looking at worlds with us being a villager can prepare you in advance.

I'm saying this more for your sake than our own but if you want to ignore the advice feel free.

I think I'm past the point, I'm just convinced you're scum. to even entertain the possibility of different worlds gave me a bit of a headache lol. it's just not gonna happen with me at least.

[Gimli]

Shouldn't you start looking at worlds when we're a villager? It doesn't hurt considering you are so locked on us being a wolf that looking at worlds with us being a villager can prepare you in advance.

I'm saying this more for your sake than our own but if you want to ignore the advice feel free.

I think I'm past the point, I'm just convinced you're scum. to even entertain the possibility of different worlds gave me a bit of a headache lol. it's just not gonna happen with me at least.

you were convinced both of us individually were wolves here and look what happened

I remember.

[Gimli]

I think that was the only game I misread alisae, btw. but they were scum in the other 3 games I played with them. I know I'm biased, but alisae's posts are just super bad, the solve is backwards, there's a whole lot of TMI over aureal and svs interactions with aureal and it wouldn't be reasonable for me to think of a different route atm

if you're town I'm sorry I suck at this IG

[Gimli]

also if von payne is a townie they need to wake up and start solving and paying attention to the game. not knowing the implications we have on aureal means black just isn't even reading the game at all

Politely, fuck off. I've got a lot on my plate and my hydra games typically take a backseat when that happens. I'm doing the best I can

hey did you know I also got a lot on my plate? did you know I'm also doing the best I can? did you know after this week I probably can't play mafia until december?

we all got shit to do, I work, often endless shifts, and am a postgraduate student on top of it so I can make ends meet. you're two players and you're not getting the most basic conversation we had throughout the entire last gamephase. and you're having this broken influence in the game because of your role.

[Gimli]

anyway I should stop posting.

[Gimli]

I've got time to do a more general breakdown+individualized notes, but they'll be broken up.

Before I get into individualized commentary, it might help to collect my global mechanical commentary in one post. We made many fumbles here and they are all simple fixes. The explanations are abbreviated, so don't expect completeness.

1. Even if she was universally scumread, Kyoko should have never been voted. This is because she had a third invention to give out. Town gets more power and information at a very low cost by waiting to vote her until Day 4.

2. Ravens should have been voted out Day 4 almost instantly. This was findable in many different ways.

(a) Ravens claimed to intentionally pass over a watcher shot for an unknown. This bet makes little sense as town given the prior dream power reveals.
(b) Ravens claimed the existence of a fourth scum dream selection mechanic (Flipped scum can dream, Vi mechanic, public hijack, claimed private hijack). This is very implausible: town will get a chance to play the game. I was already skeptical of three, but with three confirmed a fourth would be absolutely terrible and unfathomable game design.
(c) Ravens' claimed private hijack differed from the public hijack. This would be a bizarre duplicative powersplit to give to the scumteam, and no town player claimed responsibility for it.
(d) The late claim to the reporter shot from Enchant.

Some of these are sufficient alone, others merely strongly indicative, but all in conjunction are overwhelming. Sifting through the mechanics took a bit of time and effort, but at the end of the day none of the above points were very hidden or especially difficult to spot. Catgirl was my top scumread before the cc, but, still unspoiled, I became very sure the dayplay should be thrown in the trash as each point clicked.

3. Reading your role PM and voting for dreams remains undefeated in 2024, RIP. This is also (part of) why other players need to ask for full role details instead of leaving them a black box if the person looks town.

First 5 comments:

Spoiler: ActionDan

Obviously you are experienced, well-rounded, and a bit old-school in a way that I find both comforting and paradoxically refreshing. I don't have many substantive comments: I think you played the game correctly up until the Kyoko vote. I empathize with putting some trust in the person who gave you a watcher shot, compromising, and not dying on every hill. But compromising is negotiation, not capitulation. Catgirl possessed no special mechanical indicator of Kyoko's alignment, and I think there were clear signs it wasn't a read made with rigor and a level head.

Even putting aside all of the Alisae dynamic, the second Kyoko claimed to still have an invention to hand out, the choice to leash it is clear. I think you were in an ideal position to intervene and lay out the mechanically optimal play.

Spoiler: Enchant

When you replaced in, I joked that we needed divine intervention. I wasn't actually worried about anything and thought you a fine replacement, I just figured you'd get a kick out of it.

What I didn't expect was for you to be the most mechanically competent and well-rounded town player in the game, alive or dead. It was very impressive, and I thought about how rapidly you'd grown since Iceland. Then I realized it wasn't fast at all: that game was already three years ago. Compared to my first five years of playing, the last nine really flied.

It was a cool experience to watch you grow into a well-rounded and very capable player, especially one that still has light-hearted fun and enjoys the game. Thank you.

Spoiler: Gimli

You were pleasant while you were around and gave the game enthusiasm and passion that made it fun, like I was missing out when I was stuck elsewhere. I think the blowup with Black was unfortunate, in that I agreed with you, but forum mafia investment levels are always going to range greatly.

Unfortunately I can't say more about your gameplay: most of it was on the periphery of my focus. Obviously you are too quick and confident in your reads, but it's difficult to get more granular about where without rereading from scratch. Any one townread is likely to be right, but as the bloc grows the chance of error skyrockets and there's probably a benefit to raising the bar of entry.

As a last matter, I concurred with morph and the scum PT posts that quoting your PT was out of bounds. I was already leaning that you were town, but it solidified it. The issue is that if you were drafting those posts in the PT as scum, morph would have intervened and shut it down. It was only because they were genuine note thoughts, not explicitly fake drafts, that morph was never worried about it before it happened. (confirmed by their lock)

Spoiler: Black

I've been wanting to play with you for awhile after loosely spectating some of the Newbie games. I think this was a bad start for a few reasons, several of them my fault.

First, I didn't spend enough time reading you on Day 1. This procrastination compounded on Day 2 and I was convinced I'd need to meta you to get anything conclusive. In hindsight I should have engaged earlier, and we probably could have meaningfully connected if I started early.
Second, while I didn't like Gimli's phrasing, I did take his side on the blowup. Forums games have a range of investment, and it's natural to be upset when someone isn't putting in as much effort as another. Almost all of us are busy and sacrificing things for the game. I wasn't thrilled with Gimli's response, but I don't think either of you really navigated that correctly, and it made for an unpleasant phase.
Third, I was overly harsh in the dead PT around the last few days. Part of being town is being sure of yourself and unsure of others, but I felt you overcombative and unempathetic, needing to at least acknowledge why other players felt certain ways without your role PM in hand. I liked your final day posting significantly more and appreciated the effort, so I'm sorry for being so harsh in the spec PT.

I know you said you were averse and bad at it, but you should spend more time on the mechanics. I went over why the Ravens vote shouldn't have happened from a few different angles, and it is very frustrating to get no dream votes. Depending on the powers that might have instantly lost the game, which would in turn wast dozens of hours of town effort because of simple negligence.

Spoiler: Doctor Drew

I really didn't engage with you much, so I don't have too much to say, but you're just a pleasant player to be around. You never seem to take scumreads or disagreements too harshly or personally, and it makes it easy to stay civil. Thanks for always trying to spice things up and keep it fun.

Hi prism, thank you for the kind words and for the much appreciated feedback. you were great to play with and I look forward to joining other games with you!

[Gimli]

thanks morph for modding! <3

congrats scum! you definitely earned this win

[Gimli]

@black: I apologise for the harsh comments and upsetting you. I was also playing under very upsetting circumstances and trying to make the best of it, so I didn't take your original response @ me lightly.

I was also probably much harsher than I could've been in dead thread, because the game was a constant frustrating thought I kept having. that's also @ drew and @ alisae, sorry folks.

as I told you privately, I like you and I like playing with you. from where I stand we're fine, and I hope you can forgive my upsetting personality while playing mafia games. I promise its never ever personal.

here is a heartie <3