Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[ready2rock]

vote: diddin

For having 3 d's in a name that short.

[ready2rock]

Unvote

Vote: RichardGHP

for being the only one with a post that did not vote.

[ready2rock]

Heh, this takes me back to SH Mafia Day 1, where we were throwing votes around for no reason whatsoever.

Anyway, no vote just yet. Maybe later on today.

The only difference is that that game started with night, so there was something to go on. This is even more of an RVS.

[ready2rock]

@ready2rock and Fugitive - What do you think of malpascp placing a fifth vote on CSL?

I agree with Fugitive that it is a bandwagon vote, and I really don't like someone putting a fifth vote on someone in page 1. He even pretty much says it is a bandwagon vote in his post (at least that's the way I interpreted "Any problem with this vote?"). I also don't like how he said that CSL was at L-2 even though he wasn't, trying to put more pressure on him. CSL hadn't even picked up his role PM, and there are 5 votes on him before even HE knows what his role is.

You were quick to follow ready2rock's vote for me. That SCREAMS bandwagon.

I'm not sure whether he even saw my vote before he posted. 2 minutes is a pretty short gap, and he could have posted without refreshing the page and my vote just happened to be there.

...or I'm wrong and he did see my vote and agreed with me. Either way, I don't think that a 2nd vote on someone is a bandwagon, especially in the RVS. Yes, this means that I don't find your vote of Fugitive suspicious right now. The only 2 things I find suspicious right now are the CSL bandwagon and pman's change of mind about voting during RVS.

Also, as Fugi said, if you don't know what something means, look it up in the wiki. That's what it's there for.

[ready2rock]

I genuinely did not know what RVS was (as in stood for), although I now do. I personally disagree with it but I guess that's the only way to go on Day 1.

I understand that concerning your meta, buy to a lot of people, you saying "I didn't know what that is" comes off as scum trying not to take responsibility for their actions. Therefore, it is in your best interest to know everything you can. At the very least, if you don't know something, look it up on the wiki, that way you won't waste a post being confused as to what a term means.

Unvote

for now because we are starting to come out of RVS. I agree with people who say that we need to hear from the people who have little to no content. It is hard to get a read from everyone when half of the people contribute almost nothing. I would especially like to hear from pie. He has only had one post of real content and I would like to hear his and other people's opinions on how the day has progressed.

[ready2rock]

ohai pie!

I was just about to EBWOP saying the same thing.

[ready2rock]

Here are my thoughts on everyone so far:

curiouskarmadog- posts only to ask where CSL is and doesn't contribute anything else.

Bogre- seems pro-town to me. Posts good content and votes with reason

CSL- replacing out

DizzyIzzyB13- started the CSL wagon and hasn't posted since

DragonsofSummer- has been on BOTH of the large bandwagons. Hasn't posted much else.

danakillsu- hasn't posted yet

Konowa- don't like his style of play (questioning, vote happy), but I can't get a read on whether it is scummy or just the way he plays.

malpascp- has only posted to defend bandwagoning CSL

RichardGHP- seems to be more noob play than scum play to me. I'm keeping my eye on him as the game progresses.

CCARaven4- promised content but hasn't delivered yet

InflatablePie- posts good content, but hasn't posted in a while

sorasgoof- hasn't posted since RVS

ready2rock- obviously has played the best game so far. 100% town

diddin- has only 1 content post, can't really get a reading off him yet

Fugitive- has a very aggresive playing style, but nothing that comes off as scum. Doesn't avoid questions asked to him.

pman5595- seemed unsure of himself on how to start the day, but then did post some good content. However, his posts on page 1 (RVS is stupid, then random voting) still doesn't sit well with me

Nicodemus (bball for pie)- posted only once, but had some good thoughts in that post. btw, what is a "weasly voice"?

NavyCherub- seems pro-town to me. Consistently contributing throughout the entire game with god thoughts

Parama- seems to be contributing well, although I do not like his voting of diddin and dana because I don't think that putting 1 vote on someone pressures them any more than 1 person asking for content.

TheLonging- contradicts himself in post 89 ("No, I haven't found anyone suspicious", "I didn't say there was no one suspicious") as well as (I think) a misuse of a semicolon. . 104 and 105 he tries to take responsibility away from himself. He is highly suspicious in my eyes.

Concerning the CSL wagon: what is more suspicious than the wagon itself is the fact that 3 of the people on that wagon have posted almost nothing since.

Anyway, I'll take Konowa's bait even though I'm not fond of his playing style:

vote: TheLonging

FoS: curiouskarmadog, DragonsofSummer, Konowa, malpascp, RichardGHP, CCARaven4, pman5595

Would like to hear more from:
curiouskarmadog
DizzyIzzyB13
DragonsofSummer
danakillsu
CCARaven4
malpascp
sorasgoof
diddin
Nicodemus

[ready2rock]

That puts TheLonging at L-2

[ready2rock]

@pie: I'm not sure whether that's a contradiction as much as a change of mind. Although that doesn't sit well with me either since he had this sudden change of heart after everyone said it was a bad idea and put suspicion on him for it.

[ready2rock]

NavyCherub- seems pro-town to me. Consistently contributing throughout the entire game with god thoughts

I am in no way trying to attack Navy here, but "Consistently contributing throughout the entire game with go(o)d thoughts" does not necessarily constitute a pro-town player. Someone is the SH game (keeping them anonymous for their sake) did exactly this, and was always considered pro-town. Then they flipped scum. There's no guaranteeing that a similar process will happen in this game, but it's a little early in the game to be making an assessment like that.

/my two cents

FoS: curiouskarmadog, DragonsofSummer, Konowa, malpascp, RichardGHP, CCARaven4, pman5595

I'm not sure I agree with that huge 7-way FoS, but I can see where you're coming from this early in the game. Still, pointing a FoS at 7 people at once is not exactly the most pro-town thing to do at this point.

1. I know what you're saying, but it's really hard to differenciate between the people who are contributing because they are town and the people who are scum trying to act town. I know whom you are referring to, but he was not put under suspicion until much later in the game. I will worry about those people later.

2. I see what you're saying. To a lot of people, there is a large step between no suspicion and a FoS, and a small step between a FoS and a vote. However, to me, it is just the opposite. If they are leaning not-so-pro-town to me, I FoS them. It is mainly my list of possible suspects. However, a vote is a much bigger deal. It is a vote for a lynch, to kill someone, to eliminate them for the rest of the game. This is why I do not like the throwing around of votes.

By the way, that was not a typo. Navy's posts are god-like

Also, TheLonging is at L-1, so let's hear what he has to say before we hammer him.

[ready2rock]

@pie: I don't think that reluctance to vote is scum tell, it's more of a style of play.

@Parama: If you really want me to narrow my list to just a couple, I will, but like I said in my previous post, That is the way I do FoS's

Also, what is the last line of your post supposed to mean, who are you voting for (or lack thereof)?

[ready2rock]

That is to Parama, but if you want a question posed to yourself...

You still haven't addressed my suspicions of you about post 89. You seem to be contradicting yourself and it is one of the reasons I am voting for you. Would you care to clarify that post?

[ready2rock]

@sorasgoof: it's better for you to read his posts and decide for yourself then reading other's opinions. Taking someone's word for something is probably not the best thing to do in Mafia.

@TheLonging: You said earlier in the post that you hadn't found anyone suspicious, which would be contradictory because you DID find someone suspicious.

As to your question, I have posted my thoughts on the CSL wagon earlier in the "day", so I won't post them again (44, 116). Other than them, I do find a couple of other people suspicious for various reasons, but right now you are at the top of my list.

[ready2rock]

pman just jumped on my scumdar for his request for a claim. A few people have posted since he has been at L-1, and none have asked for a claim. I think that it is bad to try to speak for everyone when no one else posting has asked for a claim.

Also, a claim doesn't always solve everything. Take that claim, for example. Claiming VT does almost nothing for me unless you have good evidence. Also, you seemed a little eager to claim for such a small role. For me, your eagerness to claim and your lack of evidence cancels out the desired effect of this claim. Thus, it does nothing in my eyes. I stand by my vote.

[ready2rock]

I'm not unvoting you, but you appear a little less suspicious for at least admitting your mistake instead of trying to pretend it wasn't there.

I will, however, take this into consideration and look through your posts again.

[ready2rock]

OK, I just read that post again, and I see what you were trying to say with your attempt at humor, but you did not phrase it well at all. You now don't come off as scum as much to me now, but I still don't like the way you change your mind when your view becomes disagreeable.

Unvote

for now for the above reasons and because I think it is too early to lynch someone at this point. I still have a

FoS

on you though.

Here is my new FoS list to those who wanted it narrowed down:
DragonsofSummer
Konowa
pman5595
TheLonging

[ready2rock]

@pie: It's mostly, as I said before, his aggressive style of play. He tends to question people over and over again instead of giving his own opinions. As far as something specific he's done, I really didn't like him asking for people to vote on who we think is the most suspicious. I could see it as being a town tactic for getting the game moving, but I could also see it as scum trying to start a wagon (which it did). He also has not posted since then, as if he is just sitting back and let someone get lynched.

@DragonsofSummer: could you clarify your reasons for suspicion on TheLonging? What about those two posts that you mentioned in your vote post came off as scummy? And why do you find him more scummy now than before?

[ready2rock]

@konowa: I should have clarified that I don't think that it is a strong case against you. If I were to rank the people I listed from most to least suspicious, you would be at the bottom of my list. I even said in my post that I could see your last post from yesterday as coming from a town player. The only reason I made that post was because pie asked me for my case on you.

The only reason I'm not removing you from my FoS list (and I almost did because you made some good points in your defense) is because of the last line

Dizzy calling this out also 176 gives me town vibes.

I find it odd that you would say that someone gives you town vibes because they agree with your point of view and someone comes off as scummy because they disagree with your point of view. This is also demonstrated earlier in the post when you found someone scummy because they did not want to vote for someone which, as I said before, is more a style of play than a scumtell.

I'm keeping a FoS on you, but it's really hard to get a good read on you at this point in the game.

[ready2rock]

Konowa’s opinions:

25: votes for pman for his posts on page 1

30:
doesn’t like the noob play that’s happening

likes Richard’s vote of Fugitive because...(see 42)

35:
too much newbie play

votes for Fugitive because he is avoiding a question

(which I didn’t think he was)

42:
“I agree with his [Richard's] assessment that Fugitive looked a little to eager to follow r2r's vote of Richard. The vote itself was pretty poor, especially considering everything else that was already happening.”

...so he thinks that the vote is good, yet poor?

77:
“unvote;

After thinking about it last night, I think I am getting more of a disconnect from Fugitive rather than a scummy vibe.”

OK. Fair analysis and unvote.

83:
“@Fugitive - I hate the RVS. I think everyone tries to get out of it as soon as possible. So in an attempt to get out of it as quickly as possible I wagon in RVS. I will attach myself to the largest wagon at the time and see how people position themself. There was no real reason for my vote other than that. As far as the CSL wagon goes, I really did not think twice about it. None of the votes of CSL really stood out to me.

@Navy - As said above, there was nothing that really stood out to me about the CSL wagon in and of itself. However, mal's 47 does not sit well with me as it looks like he is trying to project the fourth vote [DoS' vote] as inherently scummier than his.

@TheLonging - So you find nothing scummy so far? I find this a little hard to believe as there have been a few things that have happened so far that multiple people are commenting on. I think that Fugitive vs. me was just a disconnect between what I was looking for and what he thought I was looking. pman's "RVS is stupid", followed by a random vote, followed by a quick unvote initially seemed a little off to me but doing a cursory meta check it seems in line with newbie play. At the moment I find you and mal the scummiest. You so far seem to be just floating through the game without commenting on anything around you. Reasoning for mal is above. I will admit that the reasoning for both of these reads is slight as it is only page four and a number of people have not contributed yet.”

is suspicious of TheLonging because he disagrees with him that there is nothing scummy so far. Says that reasoning for suspicions is slight. Is suspicious of mal because of post 47 which to me is not the scummiest thing that he’s done.

86: clarifies his suspicions of mal

90:
“I am pretty sure that TheLonging is scum.”

This seemed to come out of nowhere to me, seemed like an OMGUS kind of situation.

97:
“What I am thinking is by no mean rock solid. It is, however, more gut than anything else. Before I lay out my thoughts I would like for everyone is who is not voting to vote who they think is the scummiest so far with a brief explanation why. This will help town out immensely.”

This is the post I don’t like. You want everyone to vote and state their reasoning before you do? Why? I will agree that it might help the town. What do you think that the town got out of this?

182:
“Generally when someone thinks along the same lines as me, it gives me town vibes.”

I do not like this at all. Just because someone finds me town or agrees with something I say does not mean that I will find them more pro-town. Likewise, I do not find someone scum just because they voted for me or don’t agree with my gameplay.

Final question to Konowa:

Why do you think TheLonging is scum? You have said it 3 times and haven't really given an explanation.

[ready2rock]

EBWOP to Pie: I meant least suspicious out of those on my list of FoS. Sorry if that wasn't clear

[ready2rock]

Question to everyone with their vote on TheLonging:

Given recent events, including the claim, do you still find TheLonging scum? If so, why?

[ready2rock]

OK Konowa, I think I did misinterpret some of your posts, especially posts 42 and 90, and you also posted some good rebuttals and reasons for the things you have done thus far. You also have posted more opinions throughout the game than I initially thought. Your last post satifies me, so I will remove you from my FoS list, but I am still suspicious of

pman5595, TheLonging, and DragonsofSummer

, but not enough that I can vote for any of them.

[ready2rock]

TheLonging's post comes off a little more town to me because I think that if he were mafia, he would be more eager to put suspicions on other people and put a vote on other people and wouldn't bring attention to him acting suspicious. I'll keep my suspicions on him though because some of his posts just seem a little bit off.

To Annachie: sorry about the bold. I will use italics in a post like that from now on.

[ready2rock]

ready2rock - there was a lot of misrep in 184, not liking it at all. Plus, Konowa has stated earlier why he thinks TL is scum.

1. I already stated that I misinterpreted his posts and when he clarified for me, I removed my FoS on him.

2. Where did he state that? After he said "I'm pretty sure TheLonging is scum" (90) he didn't really give a good explanation, although he has now.

Anyway, I agree with doing something about the stretching of the page.

[ready2rock]

Is there anyone else you found suspicious in your reading through the thread?

[ready2rock]

@r2r: Any chance you will respond to the things I have said to you? If not I will stop caring that you have an fos on me because really it means nothing if you are going to fos me but ignore me.

I did in post 175.

Thoughts on Richard other than what other people have already posted:

His post concerning it not being easy to defend himself:
There are 2 reasons that it would be hard for you to say that you are town:
1. You are not town
2. Poor play on your part
Neither of these two things are our fault, so don't blame the fact that we made a strong case against you.

His claim:
This solidified it for me for 2 reasons:
1. You didn't back this up with any evidence as to why we should believe you, like a softclaim in your earlier posts (look it up if you don't know what it is).

2. Where is your promised defense of yourself about why you are town?

I am forced to conclude that you strove to pick out the most powerful town role you could find so that people will be reluctant to vote for you. I will not be so reluctant and I will

vote: RichardGHP

until you give a proper defense of yourself.

To other people who have been on the site longer than I have: How common is a Jack of all Trades in a normal game like this?

OK, concerning noobclaiming and why it's not good:
You have been saying a lot of things such as "It's not my fault that I don't know what x means" or "I'm not as experienced as the rest of you" these are all forms of noobclaiming, no matter how much you want to deny it. I'm going to go back to what I said earlier about your noobclaiming:

you saying "I didn't know what that is" comes off as scum trying not to take responsibility for their actions. Therefore, it is in your best interest to know everything you can. At the very least, if you don't know something, look it up on the wiki, that way you won't waste a post being confused as to what a term means.

[ready2rock]

no, Fugitive is right, you are being condescending. all you said in the post you quoted is that you don't really have suspicions and then proceeded to insult Fugitive's gameplay. He then responds to you with a good case against you, and you respond by insulting him more without addressing any of the points he brings up? I don't like it at all.

FoS: EtherealCookie.

Also, DragonsofSummer, I already said this 2 posts before you but I'll say it again:

LOOK AT MY POST 175

.

[ready2rock]

@DragonsofSummer: I think that you kind of piggybacked off of other people in your suspicions of him.

I find it strange that in 237, you attacked me for not responding to your post 156 and yet respond to my question in 175 in the same post.

Also, about your post 156, there is a difference between giving reasons for a vote with logic and "relentless spamming of a thread".

@curiouskarmadog: his claim is not the only reason that I voted, but it solidified my vote. Also, I said the most powerful town role

he could find

.

Also, there are 3 PBP analysis on RichardGHP and his claim of Jack of all Trades and you have no comment on it at all?

@EthernalCookie: If it is such a terrible case then you should easily be able to go through his post and prove how terrible it is, yet all you seem to do is to insult him. If his case is terrible, then I must be an idiot because it has convinced me.

[ready2rock]

concerning TheLonging wagon:
I gave my reasoning for voting for him, questioned him on why he said a specific thing, found his answer satisfactory, and unvoted. I would also like to point out that I was one of the first to unvote.

[ready2rock]

It's not fair to automatically assume that I should know the various acronyms and such

Yes it is. when you are playing a non-newbie game on this site, it is assumed that you at least know the basics of how to play/theory/etc. This is why your noobclaiming is exhausting everyone so much.

[ready2rock]

Then look it up in the wiki (link is also at the top of the page). For example, I had to look up commuter because I had never heard of it. That's how I and many others have learned the game.

[ready2rock]

@RichardGHP: the thing that still doesn't sit well with me is what you posted about NavyCherub. See TheLonging's post about this topic if you don't know what I'm talking about.

[ready2rock]

EBWOP: 298 is the post I'm talking about.

[ready2rock]

I'm not just referring to that post. Here is a list of things you have said about NavyCherub:

It could be because he wants to make the right choice when killing someone tonight.

I used it to make sure that people didn't misinterperate my post as to think that I want Navy gone, which I don't, at least not yet.

Who knows if he wanted opinions to help him choose his NK?

I'm not ruling out the possibility that he has a killing role of some sort. At least not yet.

Yet you say you find him pro-town?

[ready2rock]

no. only a FoS

[ready2rock]

8. You're at L-3.

[ready2rock]

Unvote

Vote: curiouskarmadog

Now, before you say OMGUS, let me explain myself

1st 7 pages: posts nothing except things about CSL.

page 8 post (186): Says that the wagon is "as good a wagon as any", but suspects 3 people for being on the wagon, including Richard.

page 13 post (320): votes pie (without bolding, so it didn't count) for riding the wagon, even though he was the 2nd (3rd if you want to count NavyCherub's vote that didn't count) to vote for him. Says this: "if I had to chose at this point in the game who was scum....think it would be here.". Also asks about Richard's claim

332: bolds his vote. Clarifies his question about Richard's claim. Doesn't bring up pie again.

334: votes me for reasons I have already defended in 342.

389: talks about the claim. Finds it believable even though it isn't in green font, and questions everyone else for not believing it.

390: says that everyone should vote for me without even acknowledging my defense or giving any further reasoning.

In short, he has only addressed the wagon on someone and uses the person's claim as to why he is not voting for them. He has not looked at the actual case that people use against someone. He also voted for pie, calling him the scummiest player, and hasn't mentioned him since. Therefore, before I even think about taking my vote off of you, you need to answer these two questions:

1. As I said in 342, there are 3 PBP analysis and now a defense from RichardGHP that he asked people for opinions on. What do you think of RichardGHP's play? NOT his claim, NOT the wagon on him (you addressed both of those in 389), but his play in general. Do you find it suspicious?

2. Do you have any reasoning as to why I'm such a good wagon other than the reasons I have defended in 342?

[ready2rock]

By the way, I have no idea what to think of Richard at this point, so I am now off of his wagon. Now all I need to do is to make my claim in green font at some point and ckd won't suspect me anymore. [/sarcasm]

Also here is my FoS list at this point:
DragonsofSummer
RichardGHP

I might give my thoughts on every player a little later, but not now.

[ready2rock]

Only about ckd. I seriously have a huge ??? on Richard at this point.

[ready2rock]

Richard seems the lynch for today so far, but the deadline is in three weeks. I think Richard is a good wagon and Ill move vote to him if needed, but maybe some extra talk before ending the day can be useful.

unvote

I dont really have scum reads on anyone else. Scum needs to screw up a bit more.

FoS malpascp

until he comes up with more content. There is almost 15 pages of material you have missed. I really hope that's not all you have to say.

[ready2rock]

OK, this is a different kind of voting record that shows who each person has voted for so far today in order. Bold indicates their current vote. Let me know if there are any mistakes.

curiouskarmadog: CSL, CSL, InflatablePie,

ready2rock

Bogre: RichardGHP,

TheLonging

Annachie: TheLonging
DizzyIzzyB13:

CSL (Annachie)

DragonsofSummer: CSL, TheLonging, RichardGHP,

sorasgoof

EtherealCookie: CCARaven4,

Konowa

Konowa: CSL, pman5595, Fugitive,

TheLonging

malpascp: CSL
RichardGHP: Fugitive,

TheLonging

CCARaven4:

RichardGHP

InflatablePie: Fugitive, TheLonging,

RichardGHP

sorasgoof: curiouskarmadog,

RichardGHP

ready2rock: diddin, RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP,

curiouskarmadog

diddin: TheLonging, No Lynch,

RichardGHP

Fugitive: NavyCherub, RichardGHP, RichardGHP
pman5595: everyone, sorasgoof, Fugitive, TheLonging, malpascp
Nicodemus: InflatablePie, pman5595,

RichardGHP

NavyCherub: Fugitive, RichardGHP, TheLonging,

RichardGHP

Parama: curiouskarmadog, diddin, danakillsu, TheLonging,

DragonsofSummer

TheLonging: NavyCherub, RichardGHP, Konowa,

RichardGHP

Not Voting: Annachie, malpascp, Fugitive, pman5595

@DragonsofSummer: care to explain why you voted for sorasgoof?

[ready2rock]

In short, he has only addressed the wagon on someone and uses the person's claim as to why he is not voting for them.

So I am scum who doesn’t a.) want to get a quick lynch, and b.) wants the day to go longer to get more information? Nice.

Where did I say that you wanted a quick lynch? The conclusion I am drawing (that you didn't quote by the way) is that " He has not looked at the actual case that people use against someone." In other words, you didn't address the reasons why, for example, you didn't vote for TheLonging other than saying "Oh, he claimed VT and it's in GREEN FONT, so he must be telling the truth and x amount of people on the wagon must be scum.

He also voted for pie, calling him the scummiest player, and hasn't mentioned him since.

Wait wait, no I am scummy because I opinion changed? I think you are the scummiest player now, funny how you didn’t have a problem with my stance when I said it about Pie.

Again, not the point I was trying to make. You called him the scummiest player and all of a sudden, you unvote the really scummy player with no reasoning or any views on him such as "his last few posts have seemed a lot more pro-town to me". It's as if once I made my post, pie just went away and I'm positive that if I hadn't voted for you, I would have too. I don't like it.

Do you find it suspicious?

Meh, not really….think I have already stated who I find or have found suspicious.

Really, where? I went through all your posts and did not find anything about a list of suspicious people.

Also, I will clarify my question. WHY do you not find RichardGHP suspicious (outside of his claim)?

Do you have any reasoning as to why I'm such a good wagon other than the reasons I have defended in 342?

I am an expert scum hunter…LOL…how about this…your timing of both the main wagons you have been on. Day 1..not much to go on….I find things that people (especially newer people) argue are scummy day 1 are not indeed scummy, but scum trying to push something to get a quick Day 1 lynch.

...So all arguments on day 1 are invalid? That would make your argument against me invalid and anyone who has posted any opinions today on suspicions scum. Also, I can't help the timing of my votes. What do you want me to do, scumhunt and post in my sleep? Make sure that I'm the first to vote for someone? I guarantee that that will not get anyone anywhere.

R2R, why did you not address my reasons I don’t like a Richard lynch? You scared?

Again, point out these above reasons, because I can't find them. Also, AtE.

also, R2R is a much better wagon.....

Bullshit, I don't see how R2R is a much better wagon than RichardGHP. How do you think he is?

LOL, wasnt R2R on your wagon at one point? Interesting connection.

I was, but so were about half of the other players. What are you trying to imply?

please comment on why I dont think richard is a good lynch today...then explain to me WHY richard is a better lynch? Why do you think that statement is bullshit? Why did you not address the post directly before that statement?

He has already made his case against Richard, a case, like all of the other ones except mine, that you just ignored, but I'll let TheLonging speak for himself.

---

Hey Richard….you understand that if you are not the lynch today…you are going to have to use your investigation ability tonight…I don’t want any bullshit, like I forgot..or didn’t see your post..or any of that. Do you have a problem with that? IF so why?

See Fugitive's post on this subject.

Oh, and if your investigation is blocked, we'll really be in a pickle. I'm not sure I'd believe you if you come back with a blocked investigation. That'd be too easy to make up, you know?

whoa whoa whoa...what? Who said anything about a RB? do you know something we dont? If he is blocked, he is blocked and we will deal with it tomorrow. Considering you didnt unvote with this posts leads me to believe you dont even want an attempt to see if he is lying..or see if he is blocked. Welcome to my scum list, bub.

Unvote, vote sorasgoof

this post (and lack of an unvote) screams inside knowledge and fear.

again, I will let sorasgoof address this.

oh oh , guess what R2R, I think Soras is now scummier...does that make me scummier?

See above about pie.

I'm not really comfortable believing RichardGHP's claim still. Sure it seems beyond his capability to look it up and try to fake it... but I wouldn't put it completely beyond him.

I suggest you do use your investigation tonight, Richard. Someone better protect you, though, or it won't matter one way or the other. If you aren't mafia, I'll bet the mafia targets you tonight.

You slipping up a bit there sorasgoof?

FoS: sorasgoof

so let me get this straight. You dont believe Richard's claim, and as "town" dont want an attempt to see an investigation?

Again, see Fugitive's post

Furthermore, you think that sora might have "slipped", but it only deserves an "fos" over someone who might or might not have an investigation?....interesting...can you please confirm this is your stance.

Actually, it's not his stance. His stance is that it deserves a FoS over someone that is LYING about having an investigative role.

Responses in

italics.

[ready2rock]

-I changed my opinion. I have also mentioned other people I think are scummy…why not mentioned “I haven’t said anything about them”?

You keep saying that you have mentioned other people, but WHERE (outside of a post you made 10 pages ago)?

“why do I not find Richard suspicious”…well, I never said I didn’t…

Do you find [Richard's play] suspicious?

Meh, not really

no not all arguments Day 1 is scummy. But a lot are suspicious.

What arguments are suspicious? I feel that I have stated my reasoning quite clearly and have provided original content about the person I am voting for. If not, please find somewhere (outside of RVS) where I haven't.

Also check out my post 7, Kon asked who I felt was scummy.

OK, do you stand by those suspicions? Has that list changed? if so, to whom?

I'll try this question one more time. What do you think of RichardGHP's play throughout the game? Do you think that the people who have voted for him, especially the people who have given a PBP analysis on him, have a legitimate case against him? WHY OR WHY NOT?

And I don’t think you are understanding what I mean by timing…it isn’t the time of day…it is your position on the wagon itself..

see above.

please read my post 11, I explain why Richard is not a good lynch for the town

1. what is this part in response to?
2. Please use post subjects instead of your format (i.e. post 389 instead of my post 11), it makes it easier to find for me.

Also, I apologize to TheLonging in trying to speak for you. I thought that, given your previous posts on the subject, that that was reasonable to infer. However, if you feel annoyed by it, I won't do it again.

[ready2rock]

And as for someone role-blocking you, I actually didn't think of that. I'll admit I made a mistake there.

Wait, What? Wasn't that the point that you were trying to make, that he could claim that someone had role-blocked him?

That seems like a contradictory statement,

FoS sorasgoof

.

[ready2rock]

OK. Sorry I haven't posted in a while, I just do not know what to think at this point. I'm going to go through the entire thread again today.

I'm going to promise the following (otherwise I'll get lazy and not do it):
thoughts on each player
scum list
possible change in vote (especially if ckd answers some of those questions well that I posed to him a few pages ago)
updated voting history

Expect this by the end of the day.

[ready2rock]

I'm pushing my content post until tomorrow. School is resuming for me and I need to stay on top of things, which means I will be a little less active than I have been and won't be on except for weeknights and weekends. Just a heads-up.

[ready2rock]

Thoughts on each player pending, but for now, please enjoy this voting history:

curiouskarmadog: CSL, CSL, InflatablePie, ready2rock, sorasgoof
Bogre: RichardGHP, TheLonging.

pman5595

Annachie: TheLonging,

malpascp

DizzyIzzyB13:

CSL (Annachie)

DragonsofSummer: CSL, TheLonging, RichardGHP,

sorasgoof

EtherealCookie: CCARaven4, Konowa,

sorasgoof*

Konowa: CSL, pman5595, Fugitive,

TheLonging

malpascp: CSL
RichardGHP: Fugitive, TheLonging,

sorasgoof

CCARaven4: RichardGHP,

TheLonging

InflatablePie: Fugitive, TheLonging, RichardGHP, diddin, sorasgoof
sorasgoof: curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP,

pman5595

ready2rock: diddin, RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP,

curiouskarmadog

diddin: TheLonging, No Lynch, RichardGHP,

sorasgoof

Fugitive: NavyCherub, RichardGHP, RichardGHP
pman5595: everyone, sorasgoof, Fugitive, TheLonging, malpascp, malpascp,

sorasgoof*

Nicodemus: InflatablePie, pman5595, RichardGHP, malpascp,

sorasgoof

NavyCherub: Fugitive, RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP, diddin,

sorasgoof

Parama: curiouskarmadog, diddin, danakillsu, TheLonging, DragonsofSummer, pman5595,

sorasgoof

TheLonging: NavyCherub, RichardGHP, Konowa, RichardGHP,

sorasgoof

Not voting:

curiouskarmadog, malpascp, InflatablePie, Fugitive
*I did not see an unvote from you, but the mod is counting it in his totals so I will too.

sorasgoof is indeed at L-2

[ready2rock]

Still going through everyone's post. I'm not going to be done tonight, but I will at least pose the questions I have so far:

@DizzyIzzyB13: Why is your vote still on CSL? Why not unvote? It seems like it is doing nothing where it's at.

@ckd: see post 432

@RichardGHP: WHY do you find sorasgoof scummy?

[ready2rock]

@ckd: I asked you to answer those questions from 10 pages ago because you have avoided them for 10 pages and I think that most of those questions are still important now.

Also, did you read the post that it was in? I said that I have this thing now that I am involved in again called SCHOOL, meaning I am not home most of the day. I said that my content was COMING SOON and I will start working on it now.

[ready2rock]

More than half of the players done. I cannot get it all done tonight, but if you want me to post what I have so far, I will.

[ready2rock]

curiouskarmadog: I think you guys know my views on him, but my vote is doing NOTHING where it’s at, so I will

unvote

for now. Also, if you could answer my questions from 432, that would be great.

Bogre: Getting pro-town vibes from him. Posts good content

Annachie: posts aren’t very in depth, but does bring up some good points. Neutral.

DizzyIzzyB13: Why is your vote still on CSL? Why not unvote? Lurking. Only posts when asked something and doesn’t contribute much.

DragonsofSummer: I don’t like 394 (about not posting content and gut feelings) “If I don't feel like it I never have to give a reason for anything” and he hasn’t. I also don’t like his condescending tone

EtherealCookie: I’m not liking his “I’ve done nothing scummy” claim (450). See above. These 2 have very similar play that I don’t like at all. (I typed this up before he was getting replace and I think that Nicodemus made a good point)

Konowa: awaiting his thoughts on the events of today

malpascp: POST SOMETHING ALREADY!!!

RichardGHP: I think that this calls for an ¯\(°_o)/¯

CCARaven4: Lurking. Has posted ZERO original content in the thread. I also don’t like how in his post 82, he said that his reasoning for TheLonging wasn’t enough to act on, yet after a wagon had formed on TheLonging, he said that he would have voted for him for the exact same reasoning as post 82 if it wasn’t for his claim, saying that he would have been “completely confident in a hammer” (153). Has not posted for a while.

InflatablePie: Side note: managed to call Fugitive “fugi”, “fuji”, and “fuigi” in the same paragraph (45). Seems to post good content and ask good questions to people. Has been suspicious of sorasgoof for a while.

Also, in general, I'm getting sick of people saying that they have posted the answer to a question already. Either just answer it again or link to where you said it because obviously I either didn't see your answer or didn't think it was good enough.[/rant]

[ready2rock]

About Richard: it's not that I don't have an opinion on him, it's that I am very confused about him at this point.

I will go and look at Dizzy's posts again tomorrow and (hopefully) finish up with the analysis of each player. The problem is that I keep getting pressured into posting content as quickly as possible, so I go as fast as I can. As a result, I might miss something or not get something right, then people call me out for missing something or not being thorough or careful enough.

Also, I just found where I can do a PBP analysis way faster, so this shouldn't take as long now. Will respond to ckd later.

[ready2rock]

OK, here is the rest of the list:

sorasgoof: Definitely playing kind of out there, but nothing I think is actually “scum”. The quote that makes me think the most that he is not scum is this: “Basically, though I really don't want to be lynched, I'd be willing to die if it would help the town.” Now what possible reason would scum have to make that post (of course, that might be what he wants me to think, but I don’t want to get into WIFOM)? I think that he is a pro-town player that misunderstands things and gets misrepresented.

ready2rock: obv town.

diddin: Something seems off about him, but I just can’t place it. I especially don’t like this quote “even though the wagon on him fell apart, he's still semi-suspicious”. So other people getting off the wagon changes your opinion of them? That is blatant wagoning. Also, I find it strange that in your scum list (730), you did not list pman even though he is one of 2 people (Richard being the second) that you have consistently found suspicious throughout the entire game. In fact, I really don’t like that post in general.

Fugitive: see Bogre.

pman5595: things I don’t like about his play:
RVS actions (already been explained many times)
Voting Fugitive for the exact same reasons as Konowa (trying to get a wagon going?)
post 459 (puts suspicions on the 4 people that have gotten the most votes)
post 551 (really weak reasoning on voting for sorasgoof, some misrepresentation in his summary)
post 567 (REALLY? He is pretty much admitting that it is a wagon vote and that he was summarizing everyone else’s points to make it look like he was contributing something
I’m thinking that he is scum who gets on wagons and reposts everyone else’s reasons to appear as if he is contributing.

Nicodemus: see Bogre

NavyCherub: makes some good points, but doesn’t post too often (not necessarily a bad thing). Neutral read.

Parama: see above. I’m waiting for the weekend when I hope he will give a content post.

TheLonging: Neutral. He seems to be going back and forth between Richard and sorasgoof and thinks that both are scum.

Also, I apologize to Dizzy. I looked at the posts again and the only thing that seemed off was keeping the vote of CSL.

My top 3 scum (in no particular order):
CCARaven4
diddin
pman5595

Vote: pman5595

[ready2rock]

I have 2 things to add on concerning ckd:

1. I realize that Konowa asked you about that, but like I said in the question, that was 10 pages beforehand. You did give an answer that satisfied me though.

2. That vote is not OMGUS for 2 reasons:
a. I provided reasoning
b. I didn't do it right after he voted for me, that might be OMGUS. I did it after he said that I was the better wagon while providing no reasoning. He also was trying to control the town by trying to convince them to start a wagon on me which, as someone pointed out earlier, is not the most pro-town thing to do.

At this point, I find you neutral. You have made your defenses fairly well and there are people acting much scummier at this point.

[ready2rock]

post 567 (REALLY? He is pretty much admitting that it is a wagon vote and that he was summarizing everyone else’s points to make it look like he was contributing something
I’m thinking that he is scum who gets on wagons and reposts everyone else’s reasons to appear as if he is contributing.

I explained this in that post and I will re-explain it here. I voted for sorasgoof because I thought he was scum. I had been convinced by the arguments of others.

Answer please: Is there a problem with voting who one thinks is scum?

No, but there is a problem with trying to appear helpful for the sake of appearing helpful. That is scummy. You could have just quoted other people's posts you agreed with if they said it so well and maybe added a sentence or two of your thoughts and voted. Instead, you provided false information, misinterpreted his posts, and provided very faulty logic overall that sorasgoof easily defended in your vote.

[ready2rock]

I need to go to bed now, and I'll reply to other people tomorrow, but I have a question for Konowa in his analysis of me:

Without using a WIFOM argument, explain why I would put CCARaven4 on my scum list if we are both scum. You cannot say that it is bandwagoning because there were exactly 0 votes on him at that point.

[ready2rock]

I believe I mentioned this also. Imagine the outbreak if I voted with no individual reasoning. I would be lynched in 2 minutes.

1. I didn't say no reasoning. I said quote them and add on a couple of sentences of your own thoughts.

2. There are plenty of people that have played this way so far that have gotten only 1 or 0 votes.

Also, I provided a top 3 already, but here it is in order:
1. pman5595
2. CCARaven4
3. diddin

[ready2rock]

Just a side note, diddin and CCARaven are on everyone's list so far.

[ready2rock]

EBWOP: Not CCARaven because he is not on pman's list, but diddin still stands.

[ready2rock]

I'll wait to hear from DoS before I vote for him, but that is a very convincing case you made against him Parama. If he wants to not be lynched today, then he is going to have to have a really solid defense. I didn't like his play from the beginning, but I didn't think that he should be lynched today because he wasn't going to convince anyone in the town to do anything anyway. But, when you put it that way, I guess that any scum is good for day 1.

The only reason I am not voting for him is because I want to hear from him before we rush into a lynch.

[ready2rock]

I see it now. Back to skimming

Yeah, you won't have to explain what he did much because he didn't do anything.

btw, still waiting on Konowa's content post.

[ready2rock]

It will tell us plenty, as there will be at least one death the next day and the identity of that person to go off of. Also, if DoS is scum, than that makes Richard most likely innocent since DoS wanted to lynch him so badly.

What "whole ton of information" could we get from a sorasgoof lynch?

[ready2rock]

I predict that flare will also give Konowa more things to *headdesk* about.

Also, while you're here CCARaven, perhaps you can address what I pointed out in post 745 concerning your posts 82 and 153.

[ready2rock]

@pman: read my post 886. I point out what we could get from a DoS list.

@bogre: Let me clarify what I meant. Let's say I have 2 people that I'm suspicious of:
person A- 70% sure that they're scum, posting what seems to be content on the surface that might misdirect the town's actions at some point in the day.
person B- 70% sure that they're scum, posting almost no content and not directing anyone's actions in any way.

Person A in this case happens to be pman, who I put on the top of my scum list in post 861. Person B is DoS. After Parama made his case, my % of DoS rose to 95%, so I decided that it would be better to lynch the person that I was almost sure was scum than the person that I was pretty sure was scum that was contributing more.

Part 2 of my post: These wagons have tended to form so quickly in this game that it can get to L-2 or L-1 before someone even can make a case for themselves. This is the reason I wanted to wait to vote, to see if he would defend himself. Now that he has pretty much refused to defend himself, I have no problem with voting for him.

Vote: DragonsofSummer

@RichardGHP: you are right this time. If you looked it up and could not find it, then that is not noobclaiming (side note: I couldn't even find noobclaiming on the wiki, so I don't know where it came from).

@Konowa: Where did you go?

[ready2rock]

Let me try that again since I realized that I still had my vote on pman.

Unvote

Vote: DragonsofSummer

[ready2rock]

@Parama: OK, but I do want to get into the habit of doing so for future games with different mods.

[ready2rock]

In response to Konowa:

what do you gather from that? that they are scummy or easy? What was the point of this post?

It was more of an informational post. The point of these lists was for the town to come to a concensus, and this was the closest to a consensus that we reached.

Voting chart is scummy busy work

OK, would you rather I not post them then? I make those as much for my reference as for the town’s, but if you think that posting what I keep in my word document for reference is scummy, I’m not going to change your mind on that one.

(iso post 16) Waffles on me; says it could be a town move, but it could be a scum move too. If you thought I was scum for suggesting this [everyone vote who they thought was scum] why no comment on it at the time and why did you follow my suggestion?

Look at my iso post 23. I admit that it wasn’t the strongest case and that you were #4 on my list of suspicious people, I removed you from the list once you provided a satisfactory defense, and I never even voted for you. I now find you to be aggressive town.

Quoted this because there are a few things I do find scummy. First, reasons given for voting Richard are thin. The first reason listed is horrible; you are voting him because he did not softclaim, thus it is not believable? Second reason listed has nothing to do with his claim. Then the whole "vote till you defend yourself" stance is scummy. This is nothing but scum voting for someone while leaving a backdoor out at the same time. Asking about how common joat's are furthers this point in my view. The entire post looks very thin and stretched in an attempt to look town.

1. You didn’t quote my whole post. This is misrep from my point of view. First of all, I say that this is the reasoning OTHER THAN what other people have posted. Second of all, I provided another reason of my own as well concerning him saying that people are making it hard for him to defend himself.

2. On my first reason: it was the fact that saying that he was JoaT was enough to convince people after THREE PBPA of him saying that he was scum (see below).

3. On my second reason: This was because in 278, he pretty much admitted that his defense was subpar and refused to give it. Then in 281, after being called out on this post, he promised a defense the next day. The next day, after two more PBPA came in on him, is defense was “I claim Jack of all Trades” instead of giving the defense he said he was going to give. That is why I asked where his promised defense was.

4. On my asking about JoaT: I didn’t know how common they were and wanted to see if it was plausible that he could be that role in this sort of game. I wasn’t the only one to ask about the role. Many people questioned the absence of a one shot kill.

5. If the “entire post” was so scummy, then why didn’t you quote the entire post?

Hesitation to vote DoS is making me twitch. I am really having trouble believing that you were being careful (no caution shown with earlier votes). To me it is more likely that you were waiting to see if the wagon actual gathered any momentum.

There was a difference between DoS and Richard (which I assume is what you’re referring to). With Richard, he had already posted pretty much refusing to provide a defense. DoS hadn’t posted yet since Parama had voted for him, so I was waiting to hear from him. Once I saw that he provided zero defense, I voted for him.

Also, you still haven’t answered my question. If CCARaven is my scum buddy, why would I put him on my scum list?

I'll post additional thoughts in a little bit since I didn't participate at all in day 2.

[ready2rock]

By the way, the first vote was concerning my post where I pointed out that diddin was on everyone's top 3 scum list.

First off, I believe Richard's claim and Dizzy's claim now.

I was very surprised to see that Parama and DragonsofSummer were both town. They seemed to be targeting each other quite often.

The only thing that I can think of to do is to take a look at the voting records and see where that gets us.

curiouskarmadog: CSL, CSL, InflatablePie, ready2rock, sorasgoof, RichardGHP,

diddin

Bogre: RichardGHP, TheLonging.

pman5595

DedicatedScribe: TheLonging, malpascp,

diddin

DizzyIzzyB13: CSL,

NavyCherub

,
DragonsofSummer: CSL, TheLonging, RichardGHP,

sorasgoof

CryMeARiver: CCARaven4, Konowa, sorasgoof
Konowa: CSL, pman5595, Fugitive, TheLonging,

NavyCherub

,
Flareonage: CSL,

diddin

RichardGHP: Fugitive, TheLonging, sorasgoof, DragonsofSummer, diddin,

diddin

CCARaven4: RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP
InflatablePie: Fugitive, TheLonging, RichardGHP, diddin, sorasgoof, CCARaven4,

diddin

sorasgoof: curiouskarmadog, RichardGHP, pman5595,

DragonsofSummer

ready2rock: diddin, RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP, curiouskarmadog, pman5595,

DragonsofSummer

diddin: TheLonging, No Lynch, RichardGHP, sorasgoof,

Nicodemus

Fugitive: NavyCherub, RichardGHP, RichardGHP,

diddin

pman5595: everyone, sorasgoof, Fugitive, TheLonging, malpascp, malpascp, sorasgoof,

diddin

Nicodemus: InflatablePie, pman5595, RichardGHP, malpascp, sorasgoof,

diddin

NavyCherub: Fugitive, RichardGHP, TheLonging, RichardGHP, diddin, sorasgoof, diddin
Parama: curiouskarmadog, diddin, danakillsu, TheLonging, DragonsofSummer, pman5595, sorasgoof, RichardGHP, DragonsofSummer,

diddin

TheLonging: NavyCherub, RichardGHP, Konowa, RichardGHP, sorasgoof, RichardGHP, sorasgoof, diddin, DragonsofSummer,

diddin

Not voting: CCARaven4, CryMeARiver

[ready2rock]

Actually, I'm not sure how useful that will be since everyone pretty much voted for everyone, there were a lot of bandwagons, and I think Parama's record is the scummiest there, and he's a confirmed townie.

[ready2rock]

The Voyeur is an informative role that can target a player at night and learn what was done to them that night (but not who did it).

[ready2rock]

I also posted a case against pman, but I will only put a FoS on him because he was so quick to vote for NavyCherub yesterday.

[ready2rock]

EBWOP: @bogre: why do you think he is a good lynch? What information do you think can be gained from it?

[ready2rock]

@ckd: I have no idea. I'm so shocked that both Parama and DoS flipped town that I'm gonna have to do a re-evaluation. I may just read the whole thread again when I find the time and see what I can find.

Meantime, I would like to hear from these people who (I believe) haven't posted yet today:
CCARaven4
DedicatedScribe
InflatablePie
Konowa
Sorasgoof

[ready2rock]

OK, let me try a little experiment that I was thinking about the other day. Let's assume that TheLonging did break the rules and copy-pasted his role from his PM and got away with it. Would it still show up as green? As a sample, I will copy-paste a piece of text from the OP (Flareonage being sliced) which includes red, bold, and strikethrough text. Let's see how much of it shows up!

Drumroll!

malpascp Flareonage, Mafia Doctor, sliced Night 1

Well what do you know, no bold, no color, just plain text. Therefore, I am forced to conclude that he lied about the copy-paste from the PM. For this and other reasons pointed out by CMAR and Richard including contradictory statements and backtracking, I have no choice but to

Vote: TheLonging

@mod: is Konowa up for a prod?

Lastly, I want to defend Richard for a second concerning his not trying to defend Navy post. He was saying that in response to me saying that Navy was contributing frequently and looked more town because of it. Therefore, I can see why he would feel the need to put the disclaimer in there because it was concerning Navy.

FoS ckd

for tunneling throughout the entire game. I'm getting sick of it.

@CMAR: What makes you think I am scum?

[ready2rock]

EBWOP TheLonging fails, as requested by soras.

By the way, that was a hammer.

[ready2rock]

I'm back and will respond to everything later today. Right now, I have homework to do.

[ready2rock]

OK, I'm going to try and respond to as much as I can. If I miss anything, let me know.

EBWOP TheLonging fails, as requested by soras.

By the way, that was a hammer.

Not a hammer...

I was referring to the linked post (TheLonging's vote) being a hammer on NavyCherub, not my vote on TheLonging.

you are giving me an FoS because I think you are scummy...well join the fucking club with Sora...both you decided to bitch about that on the same page....explain to me what is scummy about me thinking you could be scum? Maybe if your play improved or you did something that was pro town, my opinion might change.

I was giving you a FoS not because you thought we were scummy, but because you always seem to draw everything back to the people you are suspicious of instead of actually commenting on what other people have said. As I said, it's tunneling and I'm getting tired of it. In every post, you seem to mention me or soras even if we haven't posted. You will say stuff like "@x person: don't you think that r2r and soras are being really scummy right now?"

lol, why are you so afraid to repost it? maybe it has something to do with you are trying to push a case that you posted in 510..and we are at post 1200? I will check out these posts….but for someone who is supposedly trying to find scum and if you really think that pman is scum, you should be REALLY advocating his lynch. I ask for a case, you should repost it immediately…maybe even give some current insight on him. When you say look it up yourself, if tells me that you really dont want my vote on pman. It tells me you dont really feel like your case is a good one to repost and actively talk about it. This just stinks of someone who is not really scum hunting. Why would anyone who thought someone was scum, not want to repost a case they believe in? Why are you not asking people's opinion of pman? If you think he is scum, wouldnt you want to know people's stances on him. So what you posted it before(in day 1), I ask you to repost it today (day 3)…but you are being dodgey instead. Why the fuck is someone who is protown so dodgey? Welcome to the top 3 of my scum list. You are not scum hunting, only trying to look like you are.

Interesting how you found a way to do the same thing bogre is doing now on day 1 when I was asking you the same thing.

Also check out my post 7, Kon asked who I felt was scummy.

Also, after that I asked where he had posted a scum list OUTSIDE of that post, and he responded in post 759 still referring to that same post.

-I (as you have stated) haven’t posted that much, so I don’t know why you are having such a hard time finding information in them….please read my post 11, I explain why Richard is not a good lynch for the town (actually the first person in this entire game to use this reasoning)…now that you have found please address.

concerning TL:
@TheLonging: Interesting. You never said anything about quoting and paraphrasing originally when someone asked you why the color was green. You just said this in post 192:

@longing, why did you use the green font? Why not just say vanilla. did you copy and paste? if so from where?

I copy and pasted it from my role PM. Which is why I used the green font.

This is what I was trying to prove in my previous post. If you had copy-pasted it as you said you did, there would not be green font.

Also, this is the SECOND time in the game that people have said that this was the only reason I voted when I put:

For this and other reasons pointed out by CMAR and Richard including contradictory statements and backtracking, I have no choice but to Vote: TheLonging

This also happened when I voted on Richard and it was the initial reason ckd voted for me.

@soras, ready2rock, TheLonging: How do you feel about how you've played this game so far?

This is the first time that I have said this all game, but this is the first game of mafia I have participated in. I have followed threads of other mafia games and read on the wiki quite a bit, so I felt confident enough in my abilities to be able to skip the newbie phase. However, I discovered that there are certain things that you can only learn by playing in a game, and I made quite a few mistakes early on (see: my 7-way FoS at the beginning of the game). I am trying the best I can to eliminate scum and play a good game.

So, in summary, I think that I have played a good game so far for my first game, but there were some curve balls thrown at me that I wasn't expecting. I hope that answers your question.

On me "pushing the diddin lynch" and yet avoiding it, I have already explained the post you are referring to at the beginning of the day in post 1145.

It was more of an informational post. The point of these lists was for the town to come to a concensus, and this was the closest to a consensus that we reached.

Speaking of that post, you STILL haven't answered the question I posed to you day 1. How are CCARaven and I (me?) a scumteam?

I don't know, I think he could go either way. I haven't played a game where there was a serial killer though so I don't know what SK's usually play as, and thus can't tell if he is a SK. I'm thinking he's probably more mafia than SK.

LFE was a SK in Scorehero Mafia 1.

*runs*

Just kidding, I know what you're saying.

Since TheLonging is L-1, I will reveal myself as the fourth neighbor. Thoughts?

ckd is scum between you two.

/wall of text

[ready2rock]

EBWOP: I forgot to add something to the part concerning diddin. I was not on the lynch because I was not online at the time. By the time I actually got to the thread, it was night 1. The day 2 lynch also happened really fast.

[ready2rock]

@TheLonging: You never paraphrased anything though. You are backtracking. You are saying different things every time when I ask you this.

Concerning my reasoning to vote: read the VERY NEXT LINE of that post.

[ready2rock]

r2r, i have expressed suspicion of Sora, YOU, and Bog..and i am scummy for tunneling on all 3?...bullshit...perhaps you dont know the meaning of tunneling.

you have yet to explain WHY I am scummy...if you think i am scum, put a case together...push it..get others to comment on it, force players to make stances on me...you are not scum hunting (either, like bog)...

1. Here is what I think tunneling is: focusing on one player to the extent that that is almost solely what you focus on. This is what you seem to be doing and what I acused you of the 1st case against you. You voted pie saying he was the scummiest, but then after I made a suspicious post, you forgot all about him and focused almost exclusively on me. Then once soras posted something suspicious, you probably would have posted almost exclusively against him had I not voiced my suspicions of you. Then, in almost every post, you try to get the town to lynch us.

examples:

also, R2R is a much better wagon.....

I think a diddin or an R2R lynch is so much better……

sora, you are in all types of shit tomorrow!

also I havent forgotten sora's "what about a mafia RB, before we had any knowledge of any type of RB yet" post either...

cry what has sora done you deem town?

OK, maybe "tunneling" isn't exactly right in this situation, but you do seem to try to draw everything back to soras and I more than every other player.

2. I have explained my case on you multiple times. Look in my iso and control-F your name, and I'm sure you'll find the reason why I'm calling you scummy and had a vote on you for a long time on day 1.

If you really want me to, I will find the points that are still relevant later, but right now, I need to do more homework.

[ready2rock]

@Amished: Is that why he has "This space for rant" under his name?

Also, there is one vote for me to state my case and one vote for me to drop it, so I'll compromise and wait until tomorrow (day 4 tomorrow). Right now, I believe TheLonging is the best lynch.

[ready2rock]

@ckd: I addressed the tunneling issue in 1299.

I really don't know what to think of the Amished/Richard argument that happened. I think I find Richard misguided town and Amished as frustrated town.

This does not mean that I don't find TheLonging scum. I do, and I also think that we will gain a lot of information from it.

By the way, where is pman? He said something about not posting until Sunday afternoon, and it is now Monday evening. I want to hear his thoughts on what has been happening.

[ready2rock]

Why are you not willing to hammer now but you would be willing to hammer later? What's the difference? It seems like you're saying "I'm scum with TheLonging, so I won't hammer him unless I have to in order to deflect suspicion off of me.

FoS pman5595

[ready2rock]

Because Konowa and ckd both wanted thoughts from other players and that's why they did not hammer. pman seems to not be hammering because he just doesn't want to hammer.

[ready2rock]

The 2 people I have been suspicious of all game are ckd and pman. If TL flips town, I will have to take a look back through their posts to see if I still find my case against them legitimate.

[ready2rock]

OK then, I'm calling town on both soras and CCARaven4.

soras because pie put much suspicion on him and because he didn't do anything, matching his VT claim.

CCARaven because he is the one player that both pie and amished voted for.

@Amished (why I didn't press my case on pie and ckd): I had posted earlier that I would post those cases tomorrow as I found TheLonging scum and wanted him lynched ( ) and found that presenting another case would only distract the town.

I will TRY to have a case up later today, but I can make no promises.

I'm trying to figure out who/what role the slicer is. Whoever it is, keep doing what you're doing.

@Richard: Did you do anything last night?

[ready2rock]

@Konowa: you said yesterday that you thought that either soras or Raven was scum. Do you stand by that? Why or why not? If so, which one of the two do you believe to be scum?

btw, going only by voting, pman looks a lot worse than ckd. ckd voted for both pie and navy while pman only voted for navy after Dizzy's claim.

Still no promises on a full case today, but I will try.

[ready2rock]

@ckd: I should have said that CCARaven is not SCUM. You have a good point that he might be the SK. I might look through his posts too (still no promises, etc.).

[ready2rock]

pman only voted for navy after Dizzy's claim.

The same can be said for most people that voted Navy that day, I don't like you singling out pman here.

Look at my post again. I said that between 2 people I was suspicious of, one of their voting records was more scummy That's not singling 1 person out. If you don't believe me, look at pman's voting record compared to ckd.

By the way, ckd has posted twice as much as bogre has.

This is the stuff on my to do list (note: I am not saying that all of these will get done by the end of the "day", this is more for me):
Whether bogre or ckd has posted more CONTENT
iso readings of: CCARaven4, pman5595, and ckd

I SHOULD have a post up tomorrow night with some of these things included.

[ready2rock]

R2R, your thoughts on that post?

what, the Dec 30 post that doc quoted?

It was page 5, is anyone going to get that much right on page 5?

For reference, all you had done at that point was post about CSL, diddin had 2 posts, and TheLonging was convincing us about random lynch and why it's such a good idea.

You are honestly telling me that I should have gotten a scum read on malp, who only had 2 posts that were both about RVS?

[ready2rock]

@ckd: 2 questions:
1. Since when did Doc become a neighbor?

2. Why do you not believe Richard/Dizzy's claim?

Other than that, I think I will remove you off of my scum list. I guess, looking back, that I mistook aggressive play for scummy play (that goes for ckd, EC, and Konowa).

In the future, I will look through people's meta before voting them for their aggressive style of play.

[ready2rock]

Sorry for triple posts and such, but I am posting from a crappy laptop because our computer is having problems.

Vote: CCARaven4

He needs to post something, I don't think I've seen him post all day. The things he has done to warrant this vote include lurking, relying on "gut feelings", finding every claim fake, talking about a "real JoaT" (iso 8), and voting based on one of their posts. He also never voted for anyone that flipped scum nor found them suspicious.

Also, to anyone who says I'm contradicting myself, I'm pretty much starting from scratch because I had no idea what else to do.

[ready2rock]

vote ready2rock

FoS: ckd


...just kidding.

On the first point, I misread your post, I apologize.

On dizzy, I thought you didn't believe it because of the part of iso 98 where you add on the "If you believe dizzy", but I see what you're saying in 102, although is it a little bit of a stretch to think that dizzy would do something like that that early in the game, especially since a mafia player had just been killed the previous night.

You still have not explained why you are not sold on Richard's claim. By the way, I am aware that you have stated other reasons before, but do you stand by those reasons? why or why not?

@CCARaven: 3 things:
1. I said in my post that I was starting from scratch
2. On TheLonging: True, but you said later that you would have hammered if you had the opportunity again. (iso 6)
3. Who do you think is scum and why?

[ready2rock]

@doc: what are these "links" that you are talking about?

[ready2rock]

Just the way you seemed to place Pie and Cherub in a positive light during day 1. Such as the quote above. Also a little voteing (Though a computer crash lost my coloured votals chart, so I have to rebuild it.)
You're not the only one of course, I had Pie as fairly town for a large part of day 1.

I'll learn more when I start on day 2.

Dizzy, you should look at all the wagons that got to around L-2 or so. Richard, for example, is on four of the five. (Actually six, but I can understand Richard not being on his own wagon)

1. For the second time, that post was on page 5.

2. I definitely was not the only one that found these two town on day 1

3. With the amount of voting that happened, I probably voted in common with everyone in the game as did TheLonging and Parama.

4. THAT POST WAS ON PAGE FIVE!

5. give me the post where I dried to "distract with info overload". The only post I can think of is the long post that I made because I missed the last part of day 1 and day 2 and needed to catch up.

@Richard: Thanks for ignoring me.

[ready2rock]

1145

1147

Posts you yourself described as useless.

re that post on page 5.

Seems to post good content and ask good questions to people.

Positive statement.

Not that it matters because it was an early thing I noticed as I was re-reading the game and catching up.
What matters is that you seem so keen to defend yourself on it, that you missed your second positive reference, and aparently missed that I also found Pie town on D1.


Why did you bring it back up anyway? Why did you quote that original post (#1450) again, and answer it again when I didn't mention it except to answer your specific question about it? I looked at the early D3 posts by people who aren't confirmed as town or scum. Has something happened between page 52 and now to confirm you that I don't know about yet?

1. I wouldn't call those useless.

1145: My catching up post (a post Konowa never responded to, by the way)
1147: I looked at the voting records, hoping that they would help, before realizing that we were never going to catch scum just by looking at their voting records. I wouldn't call them totally useless. You yourself were looking for voting records day 1, there they are.

2. I want to defend myself because you suspect me and seem be pushing a case on me. What am I supposed to be doing?

3. Again? I quoted it once. Please clarify if you mean something else.

4. Nothing "confirms" me as town, not even a claim. Nothing confirms me as scum, either.

Anyway, I don't think that finding a scum player town on day 1 makes me scum. In post 532, Fugitive found Navy and pie pro-town while finding diddin, TheLonging, and Parama scummy, yet he flipped town.

[ready2rock]

Actually, I'm not sure how useful that will be

Read my last post concerning 1147 and you'll see why I made that post.

@Konowa: As a follow-up to Richard's question, why do you think that Bogre is a better lynch today than CCARaven4?

[ready2rock]

not game related: anyone else on scorehero having trouble getting on right now?

[ready2rock]

Aggressive much?

I believe he is currently at L-2.

I understand that the game is moving slowly, but you seem like you just want to get the day over with quickly so that you're not lynched.

FoS: pman5595

[ready2rock]

Game Related: MOVE FASTER! POST MORE! KILL RAVEN MORE! GOGOGO

You seem to be very eager. Too eager. If Raven is lynched and he flips townie, I'd say you're the lynch for tomorrow.

seriously? You need to understand when things are jokes.

I'm not laughing.

[ready2rock]

Let me make this clear for you:

EVERYTHING in this game will be taken seriously unless you make it very clear in that specific post that it is a joke (i.e. using an smiley). You are therefore responsible for everything you say in this game, including telling everyone to hurry up and lynch Raven without really meaning it and saying that RVS is a waste of time then voting during RVS because you're bored.

Sorry, but I think that this is the third time this game that you have done this and I'm getting tired of it.

[ready2rock]

OK, I see.

Still, keep the jokes to a minimum. We're trying to play a serious game.

[ready2rock]

Vote: CCARaven4

He needs to post something, I don't think I've seen him post all day. The things he has done to warrant this vote include lurking, relying on "gut feelings", finding every claim fake, talking about a "real JoaT" (iso 8), and voting based on one of their posts. He also never voted for anyone that flipped scum nor found them suspicious.

Elaboration on the "finding claims fake": When both Richard and TL claimed, he went through this long post in both cases about how this claim would be so easy for scum to fake. Of course scum "could" fake a claim, but I see no reason not to believe these people's claims.

If you want something more, let me know.

[ready2rock]

EBWOP:

Much worse that R2R's interactions with known scum

Wait, what? First I'm "linked" with them because I, like most people, found them town on day one, now I'm interacting with them?

There are two options in your case:
I am scum lying that I find them town because I don't want them lynched

I am town that honestly found them town on day 1 and was proven incorrect.

In short: this is a NULLTELL.

Please define 'interacting" in the way you're using it and show me examples of where I have done so. This game is, in its most basic form, a conversation. It's almost impossible NOT to interact with people.

[ready2rock]

Wow R2R, are you over defensive or what. I mean, wow.

In one post you both dispute that you interacted with the known scum, then claim it is impossible for you not to have interacted with them.

I've seen contradictions but in the same post? Wow.

wow.











...Anyway, to you, I'm getting over-defensive. To me, however, you are pushing your case on me. This point is a matter of perspective, however, and we won't be able to convince each other that one of us is right, so I'm not going to push this point.

To clarify: a synonym of interact is "communicate". This is a game of communication by definition, so it is unavoidable that I communicate with everyone in this game.

However, you seem to be implying that I am doing more than that, such as scheming or something. I'm not quite sure what you meant by that, hence why I asked you what you meant by that statement in my previous post.

[ready2rock]

What I don't understand is why you are singling me out as the one that is suspicious for something that 5 other people did. I may have been on a wagon that a confirmed scum was on, but so were many other people, otherwise it wouldn't be a wagon. Why aren't they suspicious for the same reasons?

What about the soras wagon are you trying to point out?

I really hope I'm misinterpreting your previous post. It seems like you're saying that if I say or do anything to anyone ever in this game, it's interacting with scum and therefore makes me suspicious. That's just unreasonable.

[ready2rock]

I'm still here, I just haven't had too much to say.

I will look at Konowa's case and see what I can find.

[ready2rock]

I don't like the people that Bogre found suspicious, but I like my vote where it's at, so I will leave it for now.

[ready2rock]

Vote: CCARaven4

If this comes as a surprise, then you haven't been paying attention.

@Konowa, ckd: Have you claimed your roles in your QT? If so, do you believe the other person's claim? (note: I am not asking you to claim)

@Richard: did you do anything last night?

[ready2rock]

@Richard: why did you choose to block me?

[ready2rock]

@r2r - I blocked you because I thought you could be the SK. Of course the same could be true for anyone, but something about you stuck out in my mind.

On that note: Since we have yet to see a town cop flip, I suggest he claims RIGHT NOW if he has a guilty who is still in the game. To not have one in the game would be the height of irritiating bastard moddery, and Tar doesn't read for me like that.
So cop(s), I suggest you claim if you have a guilty.

So, anyway, I think that some roles left are:

2 Neighbours (ckd and Kon, IIRC?)
1 Jack of all Trades (me)
1 Town Roleblocker
1 Town Cop
1 Vanilla Townie
1 Mafia (Cop, if I had to guess).

Thoughts?

You left out SK

What "stuck out in your mind" about me?

@cop: please claim ONLY if you have a guilty.

@Richard: why do you think there is a town RB? We already have a scum RB and a 1 shot block from you. Also, the neighbors can have more than just neighbor as their role (see: Fugitive). One of them might even be scum (although I don't think so at this point).

[ready2rock]

I ISO'd pman posthumously, and I was able to find this little gem:

Game Related: MOVE FASTER! POST MORE! KILL RAVEN MORE! GOGOGO

With pman flipping scum, I am now 90% sure Raven is town.

Unvote

.

Scum - especially newb scum - wouldn't bus like this, and pman trying to pass it off as a joke is so obvious looking back. I think Raven is misguided town more than anything now, not scum. Add to that the improbability of 5 scum in a game of this size, I don't think Raven is scum anymore.

I think he's the SK, which is why my vote stays on Raven.

Also, if you're going to say that I'm the SK, at least give some reasoning. I'll claim if you REALLY want me to, but I'd rather not.

[ready2rock]

Fine, I'll claim.

I'm an even night vig. I popped DoS night 2 because he was the most suspicious in my eyes (thanks a lot Parama) and I tried to kill CCARaven4 last night and that failed. Obviously I fully believe Richard's claim at this point.

I didn't want to claim because I think that I'll get killed tonight, but I guess if it stops them from killing the cop or doctor...

@soras: I don't think you have found me suspicious all game, and now I'm the most suspicious player in the game out of nowhere? That's a wagon vote.

FoS: soras

[ready2rock]

EBWOP @soras: WHY do you think I'm so suspicious. You haven't given any reasoning for your vote other than "I think he's really suspicious".

btw, if there is a mafia left, I don't think it's a cop. That would make 1 mafia goon out of 5, a doctor, a cop a RB, and a godfather. That would be a very powerful mafia group.

[ready2rock]

I was far more confident in you being anti-town than anyone else, and since I think that there is just a SK left, I thought you were the SK, and thus tried to kill you.

[ready2rock]

EBWOP: although I suppose there could be 1 more mafia goon. As I said before, I doubt very much that we have a cop.

If this is the case, then I think we have our SK right here:

I TOTALLY CALLED PMAN.

[ready2rock]

OK soras, that's good enough for me.

un-FoS: soras

[ready2rock]

Well, I don't like the way that ckd or Konowa plays, but they haven't done anything suspicious.

All Doc has done (at least in my eyes) is suspect me. However, didn't Konowa say something about DedicatedScribe having an anti-town role? And the one that disliked the idea the most (Amished) was scum.

I've already given my thoughts on Raven, and I'm sticking with my vote.

[ready2rock]

Richard, WHY don't you believe my claim and what other reason do you have for voting for me?

I say we lynch one of {Raven, DP} today and then look into the neighbors tomorrow.

My vote is staying on Raven for now.

[ready2rock]

OK, there are 7 players left, one of which is the SK.

me: vig
Richard: JoaT
DP: I have a feeling that if he were the SK, I would be dead by now
ckd: see above
soras: impossible, as already explained

That leaves Kon and Raven. Right now I'm leaning towards Raven. This is what I found in skimming through the thread

Day 3: Kon was the one that wanted an Amished lynch the most, yet in the end he began to find him more town and said he stated that in the QT.

On day 4, however, Kon's top 2 suspects (as far as I could tell) were Bogre and soras. Raven was one of the people that most wanted a pman lynch and was one of the people to vote for him. This is why I believe Raven is our SK.

@ckd: that was a little harsh.

also @ckd: has Kon said anything about people that ended up being dead that night in your QT that would lead you to believe that he was the SK?

Same question to Kon about ckd if he ever gets back.

@everyone: Who do you think is most likely to be the SK and why?

[ready2rock]

@Konowa: pman was sliced, not dizzy.

[ready2rock]

Why would you bring up dizzy if he wasn't sliced? I guess I'm not seeing the connection between them.

[ready2rock]

Yeah, I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying.

[ready2rock]

I'll give you one though. Nico's D1 voting pattern kinda looks a little like scum bussing. RVS vote for scum for example. (Though I didn't see that until after I came back into the game.

So you're saying that as a pro-town killer, you would have killed nico out of everybody based on an RVS vote? No one was suspicious of him except perhaps Pie, who flipped scum. There were far more suspicious people at that time. When I went to make my decision on who to kill, nico never even crossed my mind.

Now for blatant WIFOM. Who did I originally replace, and do you think he would have given up an SK role?

Maybe.

You never answered my question. Who do you think is the SK and why?

[ready2rock]

After yourself, and we'll know more about that tommorow, I would lean towards the neighbours.
Two power roles in the neighbourhood is interesting, and I would have expected one of scum, SK, or vig in there as well.

R2R, I'm not saying I would have done it, but with 20:20 hindsight I can see where someone might have.

What I find hard to understand is why an SK would target scum so much.

Why will we know more about me tomorrow? Why do you think I'm the SK right now?

Agreed on the neighbor thing.

I can't see a vig even considering shooting Nico.

Agreed about them targeting scum so much, but it sure helps us. Maybe they're just getting lucky.

@ckd: why do you think Raven is more likely to be an SK than DP? I'm personally torn on these two.

...Wow, we are at a stalemate right now. On the other hand, we have a little over a week to make a decision.

[ready2rock]

Night Kills will bring more information. Hell you said yourself that you're now a target.

As I said before, I suspect that the pop is the SK, ...

I know that night kills bring more information, but what information could it bring about whether I'm the SK or not?

Why do you think that the popper (me) is not a vig and the slicer not a SK?

[ready2rock]

@ckd: added to the fact that, as I said before, he was one of the people most advocating a pman lynch yesterday.

As for people's suspicions of the neighbors, they already said that they don't suspect each other. I said that Konowa didn't even mention pman the night he was sliced. Also, I think that soras and I would be dead by now if ckd was the SK.

I'm OK with a massclaim, but then again I've already claimed.

@ckd: you never answered Richard's question about a massclaim.

[ready2rock]

Well, since you bring it up, here is the only person still alive to vote for malp/flare day 1 (correct me if I'm wrong):

Vote Malp

[ready2rock]

That the first day was kind of nuts, really long (longer than anything else in this game combined), and was a day of a LOT of voting. Probably not the best day to look at voting patterns.

...but I did misread what you said. My bad.

[ready2rock]

Dang, I wanted to hammer!

Oh well, props to ckd for his play last night.

[ready2rock]

As long as Parama isn't in the game.

[ready2rock]

Wow, we actually won! That was quite an interesting game. Thanks to everyone for putting up with me and all of the other noobs in this game.

Any suggestions on how I can improve my playing, especially on day 1 when I didn't know what I was doing?

[ready2rock]

@nico: wow, clever.

It looks like the only one I got right was pman. I'm not sure whether I would have believed a cop claim, but it would have depended on when you had claimed it.

[ready2rock]

Triple post time!

Can we see the neighbor QT?