Micro 66 - Robo's F11 (Game Over)

[Cheery Dog]

I'm not going to bother answering rqs since I'm on my phone, you can imagine I gave boring answers if you like though.

And now I don't even remember who is in this game with a name I can write easily on the phone so I may have to skip rvs as well

[Cheery Dog]

I can say stuff of less significance if you'd rather. (such as answering your RQS)

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: Why was the RQS insignificant, and why did you choose to say that you couldn't do the RQS (because you were on your phone) rather than you wouldn't (because it was insignificant)?

Because I was on my phone, I have found all RQS's to be insignificant from the times I have answered, however this is first time it has been used that I haven't given any answers.
I probably would have bothered answering had I been on my computer when the game started, but being on my phone I decided not to answer them. I didn't even bother reading them at that stage, they may have actually magically gained (I seriously doubt it) some significance by the time I came onto a computer.

The second sentence was also there because I wanted to write a full username out of a player for a first vote, and I couldn't remember if there were any players here that had full english words as their username - I guess the closest is PM, but I'd end up having a space in his name because my phone operates with a swype keyboard. riggs was also close but I'd end up with spaces instead of underscores. Maybe I should have just selfvoted since my name works well.

[Cheery Dog]

So, Cheery, I take it you're on a computer now. How about some votes or reads?

You trying to make me do work here, how am I meant to be a lazy member of the town if I have to work?

Tentative townreads on Taz, PM & GNR.
Even more tentativie town on you and Tracey.

Thus currently I believe the scum team is Commie & Mala.
VOTE: Malakittens

[Cheery Dog]

and I have no idea where Klick is, must also be part of the scumteam, but I don't know how that works.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm just not confident in them yet, so I voted the read that hadn't got any votes yet.

[Cheery Dog]

That sounds like it should be useful, though I'm not entirely sure why, I'll have to revoke my tentative townread on him because I can see a glimmer of logic about not talking about jiggypuff yet.
(and I can't explain it either because it would indeed ruin what was happening by doing it - but me agreeing or whatever has likely ruined anyway duh)

[Cheery Dog]

For CheeryDog:

- exactly why are Commie and I a scum team.

- singleton votes are really not useful so not really seeing a reason to drop one.

Because I was seeing everyone else as town atm, whereas you and commie were sitting at null
so was kilick, but he was so far null that I forgot to mention him in that post.
this is known as PoE to most viewers. I am by no means 100% on you two being the scumteam as it is quite possible one (or two) of my so called town reads is currently doing a good job hiding amongst the town.

A singleton vote does more than not having any votes.

[Cheery Dog]

Probably, that's why I don't have faith in my current reads. I think RQS plays with how well I am able to read people on page 2, either that or it's because I don't actually see anyone as scummy as of yet.

[Cheery Dog]

This probably won't help me, but I said I didn't have any names remembered that were easy to write on the phone.
I did actually remember who some of the players were.
(i think it was klick and taz that I had forgotten.

[Cheery Dog]

Let's assume you want to eventually vote to get rid of a person who questions you, he being Mitilos, and a person who asks good questions, she being Tracey.

I only want to get rid of them if they turn out to be scum, right nw I'd like them to continue to stay and ask the questions they're asking, because I'm having trouble finding my own questions to be asking.

and the boring question everyone asks, how will these so called partner tells relate when I flip town?

[Cheery Dog]

Not necessary, but I'm currently happy with my vote.

Klick has taken over my secondary suspicion spot, but my reads all currently based on the individual's postings.

[Cheery Dog]

Are you purposefully looking for reasons to steal?

(it's a better reason to vote mala than the one I've used)

[Cheery Dog]

In post 118, Cheery Dog wrote:
and the boring question everyone asks, how will these so called partner tells relate when I flip town?

From my experience, scum tend to like to state in thread that they are town. How do you feel about this?

So does town, noone is going to state they are scum during the first day (and also practically never during other days)

In post 120, Cheery Dog wrote:
Klick has taken over my secondary suspicion spot, but my reads all currently based on the individual's postings.

Why? For Klick, I mean.

Because Commie had moved down on my list since I had seen town motivation from within the posts after the vote on me.

[Cheery Dog]

@Anyone and everyone: What do you think of Klick's insistence on not mentioning PMyst's meta, his vote on Mala and his subsequent unvote? What do you think of Mala's claim about PMyst's meta being too easy for scum to attack? Is either of those scummy? Both? Neither? I'd ask for thoughts on Riggs' lack of content too, but he said he won't be back until today, so that's another stalled place.

PM being easy to read is true, however only once you get to know what he plays like. I've completed one game with him, and had mostly read him wrongly.
Although I haven't played with him where he hs been scum yet, I believe based on his meta and what people have told me about it, he acts completely differently from the two alignments. (although I think he has caught onto this since he has managed to win some games as scum recently)
I felt like Klick's plan of not talking about his meta may have been able to draw him out of the woodwork to actually chat (and pretend we don't actually know his playstyle)

I find both of the PM talk about meta to be in the null territory, though I didn't like Klick's vote and then unvote. (or Taz trying to make it out as if that was an actual case)

[Cheery Dog]

Would PMysterious be consider-able, in the light of common knowledge, as a policy lynch?

Considerable, yes.
Going to happen, no.

[Cheery Dog]

I hope GNR is able to come around to not be on V/LA soon, otherwise I'm going to have to go with him being scum because of all the lurking I've seen him do as scum in games I've halfread.
(although I haven't actually read any of his town games at all yet)

[Cheery Dog]

@Klick: You seem to be saying that because you can't find evidence of Tracey being town, she's scum. Either that's sloppy reasoning, or I'm missing something.

That would be how townhunting works, which I believe is how Klick likes to find scum. Do you not agree that hunting town is capable of working?

[Cheery Dog]

But we want to listen to your sweet sweet typing.

Actually I'm going to go reread this game again now, I'm too out of it. Unlikely I will have anything to add, but the game as a whole is too much stalled.

[Cheery Dog]

I got bored halfway through reading, but I feel happy with where my vote is - the way in which Mala is talking about PM's meta is like she wants to be able to leave his lynch on the table, and from the one game I've played with both PM and Mala, the readability of PM was brought up there as well, and I believe Mala should actually have gained a read already on PM based on the few posts PM has made and his meta.

*insert simile I think I remember Mala using for PM's readability once*

[Cheery Dog]

THat's the only {completed} game I've played with PM, and going by that meta (and bits of other games I've read), I feel he is probably town this game. (I also hope he doesn't respond to that prod and we get someone who will actually play in that slot).

I haven't played with GNR yet, so I can't really comment on his lurking skills, the games I have halfread of his were both scum where he lurked a lot.

[Cheery Dog]

but do you want him in LyLo

Np, I doesn't don't want to have to policy lynch him so he isn't in LYLO.

[Cheery Dog]

what the heck was I doing at that start of that sentence :s
It's not meant to have a double negative there.

@PM it may be easier to remember if you ask and answer questions and actually attempt to get into the game. Wouldn't you agree that getting into the game would be logical?

[Cheery Dog]

Cheery, I usually give them a chance on D1, but it's not until D2 ill go after them for a lynch. They usually always turn out to be scum.

If that is the case, then why do you let him slide day 1?
Their alignment doesn't change during the night.

[Cheery Dog]

So in the mean time, if you have any questions for the slot I replaced, please ask them, and I'll get to them after I give my evaluation.

Why are you going to answer questions that are based on what a predecessor did?

[Cheery Dog]

but it's beginning to look like a play style thing rather than a scummy thing.

Have you read his other games to establish that or just because it's continued here?

[Cheery Dog]

I plan to change that.

Did I actually luck out enough to get to play a game with you where you're scum? THIS IS SO EXCITING.

Would you like to care where you know them from, or why

this

is so exciting?

[Cheery Dog]

yay you can read cheery-mistakes.

[Cheery Dog]

Obviously we're a lazy old newbie game.

and I'm not going to actually help it with this post.
OI SCUM POST SOMETHING SCUMMIER SO I CAN ACTUALLY ATTACK AND OTHER STUFF WHICH MAKES ME FEEL USEFUL!

[Cheery Dog]

I like where my vote is. Klick is posting in other games, but not posting here.

.

How does someone not posting in a particular game mean they are scum in said game?
And why aren't I scum for the same reason?

[Cheery Dog]

People tend to start disappearing when wall wars happen, when neither of you are in my current scumreadlist, the whole thing just goes over the top.
I still don't think either of you are scum.

[Cheery Dog]

All I'm saying is that it drains my supply of motivation to participate in the game as such., if I saw either Tracey or Violet as scum then I;'d be fine with it, however I'm not seeing them as scum at the moment, and that means I think it's probably a town on town battle, which ends up making me taking me closer to lynching another town which I don't want (unless my reads are off which is quite possible)

[Cheery Dog]

This isn't a newbie game myst.
Walls themselves I find better than multipost arguments as they're contained within the one post and not spread acrosmultiple pages which means only the one quote is needed. (although if you're on a non-computer device then the multipost argument is probably better for quote purposes.
(hi im being useless to the game state again)

[Cheery Dog]

Vio is going to be active - you could tell that from the beginning.

Why would an active scum consider it a smart idea to attack one person and ignore everyone who is lurking?

It might

benefit

them alignment-wise, but I'd be very suspicious of an active player not caring about the inactivity of the rest of the game. This might be a more notable, townish thing in a more active game, but it's not an active game. Not to mention this is the quote I assume you're referring to:

I have a neutral read on everyone else. I'd love to see more discussion, but until that happens, my reads are going to be incomplete.

He did nothing in his post to start discussion other than attacking the most active player in the game. I'm not saying that he's scum for not asking everyone several questions - it

was

his first content post. What I am saying is he had a null read on several people, said he'd "love to see more discussion", and then said his reads would remain incomplete otherwise. While not a particularly bad quote in and of itself, you saying it was good was a bit off the margin as well. He did nothing to start a discussion. He basically said he had null reads and left it open to keep the null reads. I don't know if I'm explaining my thoughts on this effectively, but meh. It's one of my more insignificant points, anyways.

That bolded question, doesn't that mean Violet would be town? Because if Violet is scum, then you're calling him not smart for doing what he has done. Are you saying he is a dumb scum?
If so, what makes it a "dumb" scum move to be just attacking the most active person?

[Cheery Dog]

oh thank GOD PM is scum

Unvote, Vote: PMysterious

he's such an easy lynch there better not be any resistance.
whoever's alive out of me/thor can catch the other one tomorrow.
for now, do plenty of good posting and all that jazz.

What makes pm scum?
I still have a useless town read on him.

[Cheery Dog]

PM lynch is bad. Stop it. He's a better deadline lynch if we need one.

I'll attempt to for you,, I spy a better lynch option. (I can't understand how Thor's offhand joke about them needing to be on a scum team is scummy - unless everything that produces WIFOM is scummy of course)

UNVOTE: Mala
VOTE: Tracey

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: Explain.

My vote on you is because I can't understand why that sentence Thor (which I read as a offhand joke) is scummy in any way.
Vio was winning the wall war with you in my opinion, which meant if it continued I would be finding you more scummy than Vio. I know it has stopped for the moment since we've had Thor and Nacho come in, but when you go out and label something as crazy as a offhand joke as something scummy and practically label Thor scum because of it when you had town from his slot, it just doesn't sit right.

You should explain how Thor's post was scummy.

[Cheery Dog]

I thought by brackets saying I didn't explain it meant that I needed it explained to me, do I have to put everyone in way of a question to have people notice it?

[Cheery Dog]

I was asking why you didn't ask me before voting.

Because you wanted the pm voting to stop, and I couldn't really do that by staying with a vote I had out since page 2.

[Cheery Dog]

What would we gain from the PM lynch on day one?

What would we gain from lynching PM day 2?

Exactly the same information as if it were day 1, unless PM actually starts playing the game after a night has been (which going by his meta, he doesn't), if we're going to lynch him, then we'd get the same information from him whenever he dies.

Why should we risk lynching a possible town in a game so small?
I rather lynch scum then accidentally mislynch due to connections.

Everyone is possible town, why should we be lynching at all?

[Cheery Dog]

Sorry, I love to poke holes in theories. I even poke holes in my own after I find them. xD.

Sounds like I made the right decision in unvoting you, unless the theory concerns you our a scum buddy, I can't see scum making this post. And since I still believe myst to be useless town this game, you get town points here.

In those posts of mine I said my reads may have been completely off. People calling completely null stuff scummy like tracey did where I voted her give off so many scum points it's not funny. Especially when they can't actually repletion it any better than it places WIFOM into the game. - practically everything us a form of wifom and reasons should not depend on the one thing alone.

[Cheery Dog]

unvote

I still want more content from GNR and PMyst before a lynch actually goes through.

[Cheery Dog]

I still want more content from their slots whether they're replaced or not, because if one of them is scum with Tracey, then there isn't enough information to base association tells on. Especially in the case of riggs who noone has even talked that much about.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm not inclined to believe you'll get it. PMyst hasn't posted content all game, and GNR has been absent since the beginning.

Yeah I doubt I'm going to get it as well, but it's always possible.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm not aware of me sheeping you, I may have said you were winning the wall war with tracey, but that didn't mean I was sheeping you. You may have pointed out some of the points on a Tracey scum, but it alone wasn't clinching my thoughts to make me go vote Tracey. (as Mala correctly pointed out I still had town reads on the pair of you while you were battling out in the wall war.

My hunger for information I don't have means I want a no-lynch? no I don't think so, there will be a lynch today even if we need to make it PM.

[Cheery Dog]

You've provided no reads or thoughts of your own, only what's already been said. You switched to Tracey over something very minor.

Feel free to explain how any of your last posts increase the flow of information. I see more stunting of information than anything else. Waiting for a lynch at this point isn't very productive and puts us in danger of a no-lynch.

They were all posted because I wanted to understand people's perspectives on the issues and why they work. People are still capable of answering questions given to them even if I have asked a question back at the person that asked the question.
I fail to see how they're not helpful, I certainly got information I wanted out of most of them. (except where they didn't respond to the rhetoric question)
We still have 5 days of this day, and with two slots not providing answers to questions, both of them could be scum for what I know. (though I still doubt PM's chances) If it gets to 3 and they're still not giving information then I'll probably get frustrated with waiting and have people at L-1, but while we still have time, I'd like to try and get input from them.

As far as I can see most of this game wants to lynch PM over being a useless sack of nonhelpfulness. Based on how I perceive PM's play, that's a worse call than what I've flipped onto Tracey scum with. (which I think was very scum motivated)

Sorry for the inactivity, got swamped with school work. I don't have a whole lot of time now, but will later tonight.

I'll be expecting something good then.
You should ignore you school work and just play this.

Yeah I doubt I'm going to get it as well, but it's always possible.

I agree with Vio on this. This feels like you're trying to stall a lynch from happening (or, more likely, stall it so it becomes a deadline frenzy). You unvoted so you could wait for two people who have yet to respond to anything... Respond?

I still remember that this is a 9 player game, and I'd like to not be playing it with only 7 players.
since you're not on L-1 anymore, I'm happy to place my vote while we await content from the 2 lurksacks possibly coming. (I'm always hopeful something will trigger them to actually pay attention to the game)
VOTE: Tracey

[Cheery Dog]

Then, I hope you guys will see what happens when you vote lurkers. (Trust me, its bad.)

You know what's worse?

lurking and not pushing on anything.

[Cheery Dog]

CheeryDog - Leanin Scum

Spoiler: Here's why

I noticed a good bit of fence sitting.

I only want to get rid of them if they turn out to be scum, right nw I'd like them to continue to stay and ask the questions they're asking, because I'm having trouble finding my own questions to be asking.

and the boring question everyone asks, how will these so called partner tells relate when I flip town?

Like here

@Anyone and everyone: What do you think of Klick's insistence on not mentioning PMyst's meta, his vote on Mala and his subsequent unvote? What do you think of Mala's claim about PMyst's meta being too easy for scum to attack? Is either of those scummy? Both? Neither? I'd ask for thoughts on Riggs' lack of content too, but he said he won't be back until today, so that's another stalled place.

PM being easy to read is true, however only once you get to know what he plays like. I've completed one game with him, and had mostly read him wrongly.
Although I haven't played with him where he hs been scum yet, I believe based on his meta and what people have told me about it, he acts completely differently from the two alignments. (although I think he has caught onto this since he has managed to win some games as scum recently)
I felt like Klick's plan of not talking about his meta may have been able to draw him out of the woodwork to actually chat (and pretend we don't actually know his playstyle)

I find both of the PM talk about meta to be in the null territory, though I didn't like Klick's vote and then unvote. (or Taz trying to make it out as if that was an actual case)

And here

This isn't a newbie game myst.
Walls themselves I find better than multipost arguments as they're contained within the one post and not spread acrosmultiple pages which means only the one quote is needed. (although if you're on a non-computer device then the multipost argument is probably better for quote purposes.
(hi im being useless to the game state again)

Also, Cheery will often post, just to post. Admitting to not adding thing to the thread. Almost like saying "Hey guys! I'm here, being active, so yeah, I'm not scum)

My town read on both of those I'm apparently fence-sitting on hasn't wavered since those posts. (actually Mit's might have a little, but it's come back strongly)
and Why I've been posting for the sake of posting a fair few times is to see who would call me out on it when other people are being accused of lurking.

Also did you find out why you voted Taz earlier in the day?

[Cheery Dog]

and in his next post he said he forgot why he voted Taz.

Since taz wasn't included in any of his reread, I was trying to work out what had happened to that read to be replaced by Violet being solid town.

[Cheery Dog]

Shouldn't in be 8!/2!(8-2)! if you're in the game since you know yourself to be town?

[Cheery Dog]

Oh wait, I looked, Cheery the useless lackwit is voting NOBODY.

That's AWESOME town play big guy, you should tell me more about math!

I AM OFFICIALLY WILLING TO HELP LYNCH CHEERY UNLESS HE VOTES IN HIS NEXT POST.
IN FACT, IM WILLING TO HELP LYNCH ANYONE WHO IS NON-VOTING WHO DOESN'T VOTE IN THEIR NEXT POST. I DON'T CARE WHO, ANYONE CAN ASK FOR MY SHEEP AND WILL HAVE IT IMMEDIATELY

Is Tracey a nonbody because she wasn't voting at this time?

...well, somewhat forgiven then., he was derping prior to that.
Also, let's be honest, Tracy with an 'e' looks town and isn't being lynched today, so he's wasting his vote and should move it anyway.

Your opinion can differentiate from mine all it likes, but I find Tracey currently looking most scum, followed by GNR.

Just because I might have you on a leaning town currently, doesn't mean I need to listen.

[Cheery Dog]

@CD: Is PMyst a town, null or scum read to you? If town or null, why? If scum, care to restore the L-1 pressure that Nacho removed, so that PMyst might see it and maybe react?

I've had a town read on Pmyst all game, have you not seen that?
Why is because if I believe I understand PM's meta correctly, he is being the useless town which he almost always is when town.

Your opinion can differentiate from mine all it likes, but I find Tracey currently looking most scum, followed by GNR.

Remind me what your case is.
Hopefully in 3 sentences or less.

What do I want a case for?
That post I voted her for originally, which I believe has a huge pilee of scum motivation behind it.
Otherwise there is Klick's earlier call of her having no town motivation in her posts, which reading her ISO does actually seem mostly true.

[Cheery Dog]

eww I haven't posted here for over a day.

Tracey is still the only current wagon I can see possibly leading to scum, I am willing to move to a GNR wagon if there are enough others also happy to do so.

@MOd, we need prods on PMysterious and Guy_Named_Riggs again

(or preferably replacements who will actually give us substance)

[Cheery Dog]

I don't want either of those, both those wagons are heavy town reads of mine.
(reading through ISO's it was mainly because of Taz that Vio is a town read)

I'm happy to attempt to start one on the other lurker though as I don't think Tracey will end up lynched.

UNVOTE: VOTE: GNR

pedit @Mod, is the deadline still tomorrow then?

[Cheery Dog]

I'll tell you why, if we're lynching lurkers, that I rather a GNR one rather than a PM one after the game finishes, but the reason right now is anti-town to be saying it.
(I feel that's it's antitown to even be saying this much, but the reason is entirely contained within PM's first post)

[Cheery Dog]

COME ON. I PUT ALL THAT TIME INTO THAT. I'D LIKE SOMEONE TO ACTUALLY RESPOND TO IT. SUDEIRBRIRBVURJV

I don't have any issues with the post, and therefore I don't know which parts I should be responding towards.
It may also be that my mind it's calling you scum and that I ignored half of it.
Anyway nothing in that post is making me reverse my town read out violet

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: You said you ignored half of it and heavily implied that the parts you did read was masked by your confirmation bias. Of course your town read on Vio wouldn't change.

I did actually read the whole post, it just may have gone straight through my head because of the possible confirmation bias.

Anyway I'm going to share that http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23318 is the reason I still have my town read on PM. (by PM's first post in it only, haven't read any other parts of it) + another game where he voted undecided where he has flipped vig but it is still ongoing.

[Cheery Dog]

It's based off 2 posts in different games and PM's playstyle being vastly different when he is scum as far as I'm aware.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: Notice how in the game you linked, he started with more activity and then when he wasn't active, he asked to be replaced. Note how this is not the case this time. The case against PMyst is not simply that he didn't vote during RVS. There's far more to it.

I did say I hadn't read into the game, I only looked at it as I was trying to work out what him voting undecided was most likely to mean.

[Cheery Dog]

If you felt it was anti-town to say it, why did you say it at all? We know you have a town-read on PM, it wouldn't be a surpirse if you didn't vote PM.
Then he posts why PM is a town read (and I've already covered that part)

I said it to try and explain why I have the town read on PM.
I then linked the post because I still don't want PM lynched today, and just speculating that I have a reason that I believe to be anti-town is less anti-town than having him lynched if what I believe is true.
But we do need a claim out of him.

[Cheery Dog]

I still think you made a bad choice.

[Cheery Dog]

I still think you made a bad choice.

Well duh. But better than a no lynch. Or were you thinking otherwise?

I do agree we needed a lynch today, however I believe it was a bad choice to be doing it with PM. We'll have to wait and see until the flip if I've read him right though.

[Cheery Dog]

No I read that, and hoped it would somehow change. If neccary I would have ended up hammering him myself 2 hours after your post.
I was just hoping we'd end up going elsewhere.

[Cheery Dog]

The whole thing is telling me thor knows pm will flip town, and this is acting town.
Possibly a thor nacho team. I have no evidence or actual reasoning for this, but it sort of looks like it faille be true.

[Cheery Dog]

Bloody knew it.

[Cheery Dog]

That is how derp phases start.

@Cheery - whut?

I was going to leave it as if the game ha been locked, but okay.
Look at the link I posted, it wasn't just to do with his alignment from that game.

@Cheery - brief thoughts on Mala, Nacho, GNR, and Milquetoast?

Mala is I don't know what, but probably town.
Nacho is town unless scum with you.
GNR is still probably lurker scum.
Mit is town for now.

[Cheery Dog]

Mit is town for now.

That is, leaning town for those that don't understand me using the terminology of

for now

.

[Cheery Dog]

I believe that makes Thor more obvtown than he already was, and if we work off Nacho's suspects, we arrive at GNR and Vio.

I was going to leave it as if the game ha

been locked, but okay.

Robo didn't lock the thread, and he didn't say "please stop posting", so why would you stop posting? We have the full cast of players and the flip results, this is the best possible situation for discussion because tomorrow two of us will be silenced. Now I'll ask again, why on earth would you intentionally stop posting?

Because Robo had declared computer trouble the day before, and was taking his post there to be the lock, we'd already passed deadline, so obviously it was meant to be a lock, and I thought it would be nice of us to not post after the mod had technically ended the day, but forgot to lock it.
His post was telling me "locking thread", even though the action itself didn't occur.

[Cheery Dog]

Why do you assume the scum were trying to kill off people who suspected them? Why not PRs? Why not based on experience? Why not to cause confusion or WIFOM? Why not randomly? Why not for shits and giggles? Etc., etc. Night analysis cannot be trusted; don't use it.

Why is Thor obvtown?

Also, why no vote?

If you believe that either GNR or Vio are scum based off Nacho's posts why aren't you voting them?

Because I don't think the nightkill was just because of that, they're just details that came out of it, and I posted what was there so I could sleep on it, though it hasn't become much clearer to me since then, I doubt they are the scum pair, but my read from yesterday is that GNR is probscum.
VOTE: GNR

Thor is obvtown because he would probably have kept Nacho alive if he were scum to make use of that "case" he had made during twilight.

Even though he thought PM was "town" he wasn't really defending him as much. He didn't try to change the direction of the lynch, he didn't make an actual case on his scum reads nor did he try. His counterwagon to PM was to vote Tracey who was his town read before that.

People who don't post content are almost impossible to defend, and my town read of PM was all pretty much from one

post

, and I'm fairly sure I was trying to defend by means of that one post.

[Cheery Dog]

Yes, but I felt as if you shared it a little too late. >.>

I'd rather of had not to share it at all.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: Explain further, please.

That's all there is too explain about my statement made at the start of today, other than that, there was Klick's postings and how he came into the game just seemed very town.

[Cheery Dog]

I've seen a scumThor leave a claimed JK alive because he had made a 'case' on them during Day 1, I assume he would have proceeded to do the same thing here. Though I guess I among others had brought into the case, but I feel it is still relatively the same. (though the same thing wasn't noticeable in the other game I've played where Thor was scum, but I guess that was because he did get the mislynch of me down day 1 so he wouldn't have needed to have kept me alive to push on again the next day)
link for reference if you need it

[Cheery Dog]

PEdit: I read some of Riggs' games on both sides. You don't have to play with someone to know their meta. Riggs as scum is ultra-active and making cases like crazy. Riggs as town is lurky with occasional list-posts (posts listing his reads by player).

Can you link those games?

The ones I've seen of his scum play (though I will note I have only skimmed through them), he was just as lurky as he is here.

[Cheery Dog]

ebwdp; had you looked at PM's meta yesterday?

OK, firstly, @Cheery: No, it doesn't make Thor obv-town. I already gave a counter to his "if PMyst is town, lynch Nacho" thing. If anything, Thor should be put under more scrutiny, because the only player he seems to have any respect for was Nacho.

Then put him under more scrutiny then, but it's made my read of him continue to be town. If you want to be different, then so be it.

[Cheery Dog]

Just because this is now becoming a 'thing' I will add - I'm actually pretty sure in the game Cheery linked that I was not the scum who suggested not killing the PR, I was just okay with doing it. Whether that affects anything is up to the individual reader.

No?

Serious thought: let's not shoot Kimor.

It doesn't really matter anyway, my townread of you is probably going to stay unless you do something very derp.

[Cheery Dog]

I seriously just read all of the completed games in his wiki. There are five, most are short. Have fun.

I don't see that much difference in the games I just looked at from there.
Also those games are fairly old and therefore useless for meta purposes. Also one scum game means next to nothing.
You would be better looking at more recent games to see if that is the case.
say one of these scum games or one of his newer town games

(note in the first 1 linked he was replaced by ChaosOmega)

[Cheery Dog]

@CD: Why, does it seem, you will only defend/attack players in this game based on meta? You defended PM yesterday because of 1 post he made was similar to another post he made in a different game. You're going after Thor now because of what he did in a previous game. Why can't you focus only on the game and not use meta since it isn't always the most accurate thing to use?

Because that's all I've been able to do to get reads on you and PM due to your lack of content.

and I'm defending my townread with use of the Thor meta, not going after him. The only way I saw Thor being scum was with Nacho doing weak bussing during twilight, otherwise he has been town during this game.
If you do actually start giving us more content, I'll be able to get a read of you from what you have posted, but currently the only thing worth noting was your reads list yesterday. (which I found to be scummy). and I guess this new post now which doesn't really give off a vibe.

[Cheery Dog]

Dunno - don't hunt scumpartners.
It would be someone on the wagon though - that's relatively certain.

So you're clearing me and yourself, that's nice. I do agree that if it was one-on, one-off, Vio would be the off-the-wagon-scum. I believe it more likely that both were on the wagon though.
(but you never can tell with deadline lynches)

[Cheery Dog]

It doesn't really matter anyway, my townread of you is probably going to stay unless you do something very derp.

Was there a reason in pointing this out?

Not really, I guess to show that my town read was still strong even though I had just found a lie by Thor.

@Cheery: How is Thor clearing himself? He sort of voted for PMyst, after the hammer, so he is on the wagon too, in a sense.

Well I guess more on the wagon than either Violet or my claims to maybe hammer at some point. (Violet before the lynch and me after)
Still off the official wagon though, and that's what I class as "on the wagon" - if it's not visible in a votecount someplace, I don't count it as being on the wagon. (though it does count as a vote if I'm going through the player's ISO).
You can use different terms for what the wagon is in your own mind, but that's how it sits with me.

[Cheery Dog]

What makes it necessary for Thor to be scrutinised is that Nacho died and is the only player Thor seems to respect

You're still not scrutinising him yourself, why should everyone else have to this for you?
When none of us believe he needs scrutinised more because of it, looks like you want town to start attacking him while leaving yourself out of the attack, even if you're the one wanting it.

UNVOTE: gnr
VOTE: Mit

[Cheery Dog]

Let's see now...

Spoiler:

OK, firstly, @Cheery: No, it doesn't make Thor obv-town. I already gave a counter to his "if PMyst is town, lynch Nacho" thing. If anything, Thor should be put under more scrutiny, because the only player he seems to have any respect for was Nacho.

NK analysis can sometimes be helpful. In this case, I think it might not be, since anyone could have easily been behind the kill, for whatever reason. I agree with Thor though, that the main reason for scum killing someone is that they're so town they won't be lynched. Of course, then they can do the WIFOM thing and let them live so that people will suspect them of being too townie to be alive and so on.

As for me "avoiding the thread", would I pull a PMyst like that, after attacking him so much for avoiding the thread throughout day 1? Don't be silly. I just didn't know we started and I always look for my games thread by thread. I thought this one had not started yet.

However, I am surprised you guys didn't lynch me yet, for leading that mislynch. I'm guessing that the mafia team felt that they could let someone else start a wagon on me first (e.g Mala) and then jump in, or that I might lead another mislynch. Oh well.

Anyway, had PMyst flipped scum, my main suspects now would have been Tracey and Mala. As he didn't, I don't know whom to suspect.
@Thor: Should I sheep you? If so, why? If not, whom should I sheep?
@Tracey: Who are your second and third scummiest reads, excluding me, and why?
@Mala: Even if I was avoiding the thread, how would that have been scummy?
@Violet: weren't you also calling it yesterday, as well? Nothing much seems to have changed in your arguments.

p-edit: @Violet: On the other hand, Nacho

did

suspect you. It's far less likely, I think, that only the mafia team "suspects" one townie, than one of the team giving suspicions on two.

I think I might be cool with a Violet wagon, but I don't want to rush like yesterday and cause another mislynch.

This is where you first said he should have been more scutinising, you asked him whether you should sheep him, this indicates a townread here and not scrutiny.

@Mala: I set no trap. I expected people to have voted for me already. They didn't. That was that. Also, I might be cool with a Violet wagon, because I think he might be scum. I don't know whether or not he will be a mislynch, or even a lynch, because I don't know his alignment. Which is why I don't want to rush into voting him. Perhaps it would have been clearer if I said "potentially cause another mislynch".
If you want it more clearly: My read on Violet right now is null leaning scum.

@Cheery: Well, I asked him (and others) a couple of questions. I am waiting for his answers.

p-edits start here.

@Thor: It happened to be right above another thread I'm playing. Also, I meant should I be voting Violet? If so, why? What is your case on him?

@Violet: I didn't ignore it. I just pointed out a counter-point. But the fact remains that, if Tracey and Thor are scumbuddies, they're working together to attack you, with not much support from the town. Wouldn't that be a rather bold move? Wouldn't they be more likely to have one person push and another hold back until the wagon got some steam? Because right now they'd needlessly be putting themselves in too weak a position, particularly if you were lynched and flipped town.

Still indicating a probable town read here.

@Mala: For protecting him too much. But since he was town, it's moot.

@Violet: You know Tracey. From your knowledge of her, is this how she generally behaves? Would she be jumping between accusing you and me yesterday if she is scum?

@Thor: No, you shouldn't. (Unless you're scum. Then you should totally vote me.) But I could see how I might have been an easy mislynch target today. I'm not entirely sure what you're asking there with the PMyst wagon. Could you clarify? And I don't think I will sheep you at this time, but at least now I'm more convinced you are town.

@Violet: If Thor is town, is Tracey still scum? If Tracey is town, is Thor still scum? Why or why not? If neither is scum, who is your next biggest scumread?

@GNR: Now that you're back and more active, who is scum?

I guess that question could technically count as scrutinising him by having him clarify something, but it's not any more scuntiny than what is given to everyone else, which you say should have been given.

@Thor: The PMyst wagon wasn't scummy, but it was on a PR. People don't always decide who is scum by their actions, but by the results from them. In this case, the result of the wagon was that we lost our doctor. I would have expected both scum and town to attack me for the PMyst wagon, not because of its motivation, but because of its result.

@Mala: Not towards the end, but early on. Or at least I was under the impression you did. Maybe I was mistaken, but it makes little difference now.

This is a response from Thor scrutinising you, not the other way around.

I didn't say the result was scummy. I said the result would be an excuse for others to attack me. And town wouldn't necessarily attack me immediately, but there had been quite a few posts between the day starting and me actually getting here. In any case, I wasn't attacked, which is good, since it means the town cares more about motivations than other things. But you can't deny that this isn't the case with all players and that some players would, in fact, have attacked me, given PMyst's flip.
Think of it like Nacho's statement that he'd expect one of you and himself to be killed overnight (which was accurate). My expectation was not accurate, which is a good thing in this case, but it was a possibility.

More of you being scrutinised yourself.

No thanks, I'm good. You say Violet is scum. If he is, who is his most likely scumpartner and why?

Seriously how are these types of questions scrutinising him?

@Tracey: Way to misrepresent, yet again. What makes it necessary for Thor to be scrutinised is that Nacho died and is the only player Thor seems to respect. If Thor were scum, he'd go for Nacho first. My read on Violet changed because of the various posts between the two you list. Which should be fairly obvious. Riggs is still leaning scum, because of his lurkiness. And I already said why I was not sheeping the wagon. An additional reason is that I think you might be scum, trying to get a second mislynch and put us in LyLo.

I have town reads on Thor, Mala and Cheery. I think that the mafia team is in Tracey, Violet, Riggs. In both cases, reads are in descending order of strength. The latest bout with Thor, about being on the wagon and so on doesn't sit right with me.

@Thor: Is Tracey town, null or scum? Why?

@Cheery: How is Thor clearing himself? He sort of voted for PMyst, after the hammer, so he is on the wagon too, in a sense.

@Mala: You seem to be saying that I am scum. If so, why, and who is my partner? If not, who is scum and why aren't you voting them, instead?

This post I just quoted before, you have said that it was necessary for Thor to be scrutinised in it, the only scruntinising here is asking about what his reads are, which with someone as experienced as Thor won't make any scumslips if he were scum from them.

@Cheery: Except I did ask him questions and I think he's town, from his answers. How is that not scrutinising?

because your questions were from a perspective where you were already reading him as town.

While I could be misunderstanding what you mean by scrutinise, I don't see you as having scrutinised Thor any more than everyone else, and barely scrutinised him for anything about how he is scum. What you have done is ask a lot of people for reads, which I don't even see how that works as a front for attack.

@Tracey: You misrepresented what I said about Thor. See the answer for the explanation. And if Thor had been scum, he'd be more worried about Nacho than the rest of us. Nacho's reads could change; just because he thought Thor was town doesn't mean he wouldn't at some point read him as scum instead. As for Violet, he keeps repeating the same things, which don't seem to constitute a good enough case, to my mind, at least. For Riggs, just because it's potentially just posting style doesn't make it non-scummy. He has posted, but his posts haven't been too helpful, I think. The reason I'm not sheeping came much earlier. Look further back in my ISO. The bout with Thor didn't sit right with me, in terms of Violet's alignment; not Thor's.

Why would a Thor-scum be more worried about Nacho than everyone else? We are all capable players of being able to identify a Thor-scum (well I assume we are, none of us are in our first game, so we should be able to work out the scum tells from the town tells) and all of our reads may change throughout the game, not just Nacho's read of Thor.
I believe Thor is also respecting Tracey this game, if it's because he was sheeping her, it's about normal for what Thor does when replacing into a game.

I also don't understand your last point here, how does talking about sheeping someone onto one of your own scumreads, give you doubt about that suspects alignment?

[Cheery Dog]

@mit the questions you asked may work if you've just replaced in and not reading, but when you've been in the game from the start, you should have reads on all players. Asking whether you should sheep someone personally and/or who you should sheep just doesn't look like something sensible to a possible scum read you're scrutinizing.

The last point I was talking about was the last sentence of the quote I placed outside the spoiler. I asked it in theory terms so you may have been able to explain how it would be a good idea to do it without writing the circumstances in which it opportunity happened in this game. (to then see if it lined up with what has happened) but it you need names.
How did you bout with thor give you doubt on violet's alignment?

[Cheery Dog]

What scum games have you seen of mine? I

[Cheery Dog]

I feel like we were in a Newbie together where you were scum.

You were the one that was scum in a newbie game we've had together.

[Cheery Dog]

I'm quite worried about Mit's word choice in general lately. He's been making a lot of those posts. Not sure, but it's giving me a feeling that he's hiding something, to be quite honest.

How long have you been feeling that? I take it that's why you're voting him (since he isn't avoiding the thread like the plague anymore)

[Cheery Dog]

Your question seemed to be making an insinuation. It suggested that I was saying that Thor was scum for not having as much respect for the other players as for Nacho. Which was not what I was saying. I took that to be a scummy thing for you to do

Since I got the same thing out of your post in that you were indicating that you though that the NK made Thor scummy, how am I obvtown with it which Tracey is probscum?

[Cheery Dog]

I'm accepting from Violet and Tracey that they know each other well, so at least one of them is making a good case.

How does them knowing each other outside the game mean that they are making a good case on the other? I don't believe they've actually played mafia together before this, so it's almost the same as someone you've gone and read a game to understand a playstyle.

I've personally put them back as town v town currently, because their argument just keeps continuing and going in circles. (though I may have started not actually paying attention to the points they're making on each other). I can also see that it might be possible that one of them is scum because of points other people have made, but reading them myself, I can't really place that connection. (other than my attack on Tracey yesterday)

[Cheery Dog]

(The same goes for Cheery)

Haven't you noticed the by what I've been pushing today?
I have scum reads on you and GNR, though with your vote on him, I'm not entirely sure about it. I don't really have a read on Mala at the moment, possibly under the radar scum, but then her sitting on your wagon all day makes you probably not scumbuddies with her.

which makes me want to go back this direction.
UNVOTE: ; VOTE: Guy_Named_Riggs

(also note we have a change of wagon on L-1)

[Cheery Dog]

It only spiked once, but he was at L-1. Point granted.

GNR has only just been placed on L-1 now, how do you grant the point by means of something that hasn't happened before?

[Cheery Dog]

I believe the mit wagon still has a chance of happening, but yes it does need more work done for it as do any wagons pre lynch
The violet wagon that happened early today seems to have disappeared with the ease it started with, it our making wine if my read that way us correct and that someone may have been bussing.

[Cheery Dog]

I have not been scum often on this site (Less than 10, maybe less than 5, I don't know off hand). Most of those times were from when I first started playing the site, so I didn't know any better. Any other time, I'm lynched Day 1. Or I decide on a random kill, that may or may not land on someone who pushed for my lynch. What I'm saying here is that I don't over think my night kills as scum. They usually occur on a whim. Keep in mind, that when I am scum, we decided on a kill together and therefore, I don't really care who we kill because I don't often draw scum so what do I know?

You've been scum more often than I have been (well you have been here a year longer I guess), but being limited in the amount of scum games you've played means nothing.
and even if you are on this on a whim scum player, it doesn't mean you did kill Tracey or if your partner wanted to protect you from it and you followed along.

I don't do TL;DR versions because they're crappy and don't get the point across.

Only if you make them crappy are they unable to get the point across.
Huge walls get the point so far across that it bounces back.

Is there anything in particular you dislike about the riggs wagon?

I feel silly asking this

What makes you feel silly by asking it?

[Cheery Dog]

Explain to me how I killed Tracey if she is still quite alive

because I didn't think about it, I just had Tracey in my head and typed.
Clearly I meant to be saying Nacho.

[Cheery Dog]

And you just asked her the same question >.>

yes, but I didn't feel silly about asking it. (well I did kind of after you ninja'd me with your one, but I was too lazy to remove it from my post).

[Cheery Dog]

I think you might be
We should pinch someone to make out close to bring true.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: If Riggs is scum, who is his partner? If he's not, who is scum?

You and/or Mala

[Cheery Dog]

I don't see any points you made agaisn't me there? Were you referring to another post?

I believe it might be this part he was talking about. vv

Better than any three of those points is the fact that GNR had a town read on Mit until he had two votes on him.

And this:

Thor665 - Town

First off, he's Thor.

I have to assume he's town or I get nightkilled.

Also, his playstyle

does not seem scummy at all

Thor's post read town as well.

Nothing I saw suggests scum or anti-town at all

Bolded for emphasis. He recognizes you're a strong player and then states you're not scum

at all

. The first sentence makes a lot more sense as a statement if you replace "nightkill" with "lynched by him" which is probably what he meant.

Though I personally think those are weaker than Thor's points against you. Having a town read until they're suspected doesn't mean you're opportunistic.

That first sentence of the quoted seems weird. (in that it reads as if you wanted to actually call him scum, and then you're afraid of the nightkill if you did, why is that?)
I'm not sure what Violet was getting at when bolding the other two lines (or why he edited the quote to remove you talking about Klick's play in the second line and making it as if you were talking about Thor's playstyle there (which while it is generally true for Thor, I read that in the actual post as relating to Klick's playstyle) Actually how does the playstyle (the bits that would be similar as either alignment) even make someone a town read?)
The third bolded means absolutely nothing in terms of your alignment.

Actually after rereading that attack, my Violet town read has lessened a lot.

I don't like the Riggs wagon because I don't have strong reason to believe Riggs is scum. He has a weird playstyle, but that's all I'm seeing it as currently. I'm not seeing the scum motive behind [most of] his posts. Who is on the wagon has nothing to do with it. However, I don't like how ready people are to jump on the wagon.

I thought that was probably the case, but I wanted to see if you had seen a towntell I had missed as to why you didn't like the wagon, but if it's just you don't personally suspect him, then I see no problem with it remaining.
The votes onto the wagons you yourself have been supporting, I feel were made with about the same level of ease though.

[Cheery Dog]

However, that doesn't mean you can just up and fly away, all i ask is to keep me up to date on where your activity will be.

I believe I am going limited access during what will probably day 3 (I think the 22nd to the 31st, but not sure on the start date yet - it's going to happen between Christmas and New Years Day at the very least (and my access then will depend on how much data I still have available on my phone and how often I can get on the one computer that will be present where I'm staying).

Darn it, Cheery! I was going to point this out, but I totally forgot

It's just as well I went back and reread the post and what was happening in said post then.
--
Mit might if I hammer you much?
It'll probably happen after mala posts next if you're still on L-1.

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: Are you asking if I mind? Yes, I do mind. We've had one mislynch already; a second one will put us in LyLo. If you must, I'll at least tell you now that I'm a Townie (as in, not a PR).

I was asking much much you minded, and I am now pausing slightly in doing it since you have claimed.
Plus it wasn't going to happen anyway, but it is giving me thoughts about it.
I'm probably still going to be done with it.

[Cheery Dog]

There's still time to be able ton convince me I want to change my mind

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: To convince you that I am town? If you want to change your mind, just ISO me. In any case, why would I have killed Nacho? What would my motivation, as scum, be? ISO him, as well.

I'll oblige by reading ISOs, but that probably won't make me want to change my mind by it's self. Seeing as your posts convinced me you were probscum in the first place.
Your motivation for killing Nacho would be the same as everyone elses in that he is a good player. If there is a roleblocker on the scum team, you may have been cop hunting. (since you would know one exists if that is the case).
Your personal reasons may or may not have included that Nacho was PM's loudest defender and you thought he would attack back hardest after PM flipped doctor.
I probably should have been louder myself since I had read him as a PR, but I had thought we may have been able to get someone else lynched and PM may have managed to be useful afterall.
(do note I haven't actually read Mit's ISO, I started with Nacho's and his read of Violet wanted me to reread it.

[Cheery Dog]

That ISO did get boring to read, and it confirms some of my thoughts, though I guess some were put in their place, whatever it was that happened my vote is still going to remain on riggs for now.

@Cheery: It's exactly as Thor said. If I were scum, my choice would have been Thor, instead of Nacho. Beyond that, I can't offer you anything else.

Why that choice other than him being arguable the most experienced?

[Cheery Dog]

Why Thor? Because Nacho was calling me town. Not just calling me town. Remember what he said to Tracey (if I remember correctly) about needing to unblock my vote from PMyst. That means he was pretty convinced I was town. If I were scum, I'd absolutely want him around, supporting me. The relative experience of Thor and Nacho is irrelevant; they are both more experienced than the rest of us, as far as I can tell. Basically, I'd kill pretty much anyone over Nacho, at that point, if I were mafia.

Which would mean you either did it for IWFOM or because your partner was heavily suspected and you'd rather a partner than a town town-reading you.
(or you didn't do it as you claim, this is still a possibility)

[Cheery Dog]

@Cheery: But if it was because of "my partner" being heavily suspected, then he'd have to be Riggs. Look at where my vote is. Also, I think mafia would be less interested in keeping their partner by day, than consolidating their own position. And if it's WIFOM, then anyone could be scum, so you might as well throw that out the window.

...or Violet.

"but look where my vote was earlier!"

and I still have a scumread on you, so yes you can be scum.

[Cheery Dog]

Unless there's a mistake with 877 then I don't see the error.

You might want to look again then, there's a hell of a lot of mistakes in 907.
(it appears to have been updated from #826 and not #877)

Upon further investigation (not on my phone), I see you're right! Should be fixed now. ~ Robo

[Cheery Dog]

If you think it might be a GNR/mit team, why is your vote still on tracey?

[Cheery Dog]

From your post I assumed you thought they were the probable scum team, if only one is scum, then e don't know if they've left their partner the opportunity to claim cop.

[Cheery Dog]

I agree that any remaining scum (it had better be just one) are in {Mit/Mala/Vio}

[Cheery Dog]

*insert generic sheep noise + h here*

[Cheery Dog]

Thor how dare you make me read you wrong again. just as I was thinking I might have actually been able to read you correctly you go and pull some bluff on me here. Thanks for trying to correct my theory on you being town though.

and I'm still annoyed you all went and lynched PMysterious, but I guess I could have done something better about defending someone who I believed was a PR - I just had no idea how to do that correctly. (I can link to the other game where he was a vig that voted undecided now if that helps)

Mala why you no quickhammer?

and now I know why Robo laughed at me guessing a Vio/Tracey scumteam halfway through day 3 (before any of you lazy buggers actually voted)

[Cheery Dog]

Reason why no quickhammer:

Phone doesn't like vote tags. I seriously will and always have booched them when off my phone. I was rushed out the door to dinner after being woke up so I couldn't get to my computer. :s

I've figured that if I type after pressing the vote tags button, it will usually go in the right spot on my phone. (though oddly it doesn't work with font colour)

I usually end up manually typing them now anything since I found how how to access the square brackets - but then your phone probably is different to mine.

[Cheery Dog]

CD also had me for a while, but backed off. >.>

Yeah but I didn't actually know why, I don't think I ever actually put a case together on you.

[Cheery Dog]

@All you newer players that never played this as a Newbie: What did you think of the setup?

Well considering we lost the doc day 1, I'd say it was about the same as if it were the mountainous version. I was happy with it, except for the lurkers, but they haunt all setups.

[Cheery Dog]

Lemme know how I can do better, please.

I thought you were meant to be the IC here

[Cheery Dog]

Wasn't sure cause of CD's comment

I pmed him to ask if that was the scumteam.

Actually that was after Viole voted Thor I did that, so my comment wasn't even true there.

@Robo, I think you would be able to get some more players, I'd possibly play it again.

[Cheery Dog]

Still waiting for comments and criticisms, incidentally. Come on you guys, I was the newbie of this game, I need to get better at this.

Don't do whatever it was I was attacking you for in day 2. I don't actually remember what that was or why, but don't do it.

[Cheery Dog]

What, no love for Robo?

Don't be a lazy mod just because people aren't voting in 5p LYLO

[Cheery Dog]

I'm a lazy mod all the time. Lol people will eventually grip this.

I'm aware of this, you did the same thing when it got to LYLO in futurama. (you were almost as absent as the two players that flaked)