Mini 1597: Runecast Mafia - Day 5

[Ansuz]

Vote: hiplop

[Ansuz]

i only have one vote silly and your avatar is pretty

Let me tell you a story, hiplop. There once was a man playing the game of Mafia with his best friend, who we will call Desperado. His best friend has intuition, a feeling, votes. Now this man sees his best friend's intuition nudging him forward, but also without evidence and also while Osseus's seductive siren call sings him elsewhere. Now, the man is ready to split off into his own, ready to adventure the world as a pioneer, as a trailblazer, but suddenly, Desperado's intuition proves more on point than the man is willing to admit when the target of the intuitive thought busts into the thread screaming "lynch me, lynch me!". The man wants to move, wants to go his own way, but the devil on his shoulder isn't big enough to overpower conscious. Do you understand, hiplop? You're making me do this and it isn't fair

[Ansuz]

Konowa is confused. Can Ansuz explain for the feeble minded?

I think what Nacho was trying to say is that he planned on moving our vote but then hiplop strode in carrying an enormous neon sign that read "I'M A SCUMFUCK" so he can't in good conscious vote for anyone else.

[Ansuz]

yeah we found the scumteam boys its evceryone on my wagon

I think continuing to push this reasoning and do nothing else is scummier than not. I think it sounds awkward and passive: awkward because it's not really jokey or light and passive because you're doing absolutely nothing with it.

[Ansuz]

I see only the Hiplop wagon. It's and RVS wagon so nothing there now.

If I'm speaking in tongues, please ask me to clarify so I can clear up misconceptions like "hiplop wagon is an RVS wagon".

[Ansuz]

VOTE: Kthx
Ugh yeah what's the point of making a vote, removing it and making another vote in one post?

What's scum motivation for making two votes in one post?

[Ansuz]

i'm gonna wait a few pages or so... because right now i have no reads whatsoever

Would you mind voting hiplop while you're waiting?

[Ansuz]

yeah we found the scumteam boys its evceryone on my wagon

I think continuing to push this reasoning and do nothing else is scummier than not. I think it sounds awkward and passive: awkward because it's not really jokey or light and passive because you're doing absolutely nothing with it.

youre right thats definitely not a joke

Who is the scummiest on your wagon? Who is the least scummiest? Why?

[Ansuz]

Holy crap.

Vote: kthxbye

Scum caught.

What did you even scumread in that post?

[Ansuz]

Sorry, got interrupted while catching up yesterday, finishing today.

[Ansuz]

Mantis, my love... why?

cause... dex, my love.. i'm just not seeing anything atm. i only really know you and kthx in this game (though, apparently bert, nacho, and NS are in it??) <- i can work with them too.

but you and kthx haven't said a whole ton that makes me think "town". so was gonna lay back for a bit and see.

i don't think that Osseus pseudotripodis (purely copy-pasted) was justified in voting kthx.

Bert and notscience are tunnel mates, desperado and nacho are in this hydra.

[Ansuz]

Hiplop wagon seems good

VOTE: Hiplop

Why?

[Ansuz]

VOTE: d3x
Your early aggression here doesn't feel like town aggression.

I tend to take aggression as an early sign of sorting out the game: it's usually pretty difficult to get a good read on someone without pushing them a little bit. I also think scum are less likely to be aggressive because being aggressive normally steps on people's toes at worst or makes you the center of attention at best, which is a position most scum players aren't comfortable in taking.

[Ansuz]

No, it was a backhanded dismissal to show everyone else how wrong I am. Listen you can't play that game on me, because I have perfected it.

He's asking what scummy things you've picked up on, which isn't a ridiculous question considering you haven't given anything to work with so far. The tone you're picking up on is there but doesn't really seem all that scum motivated.

[Ansuz]

back off kthnx, Bone, he always is like this.

Hiya UT, Bone still needs to explain his vote on me for my post. I will not let it go as not explaining things is scummy to me.....especially when he goes from 'kthx is caught scum' to 'I agree with caught scum and will follow with a vote because I agree so much with caught scum'.

Can't have it both ways and I want it explained.

This is pretty town.

[Ansuz]

No, actually gameplay vote seems legit

Why?

[Ansuz]

Lynx... I've read this post about three times now and I dint know why you're voting d3x. It seems to me like your main beef with him is that he called you fluffy while ignoring tunnel mates, but in reality it seems like he called both of you fluffy (no where in his posts does he call you fluffier than tunnel, and he's voting gameplay as opposed to either of you), which means that you're voting him because he says you're fluffy and that's it?

[Ansuz]

Okay, well

UNVOTE
VOTE: LYNX

Everything has already been said...

What's been said, exactly?

[Ansuz]

Could you also explain how HighShroomish going after game play in the same fashion would be townier than going after you?

Also, explain the hiplop read because it makes no sense at all.

[Ansuz]

Did you forget my vote was from a while ago? What's wrong with me waiting for other's reactions before making my choice final?

Many have reads and don't vote for them. I can't live my life in a way that makes you happy.

So, are you saying my reasons for finding them scummy aren't legit? Humor me.

A while ago, as in... last page?

[Ansuz]

Wanting mantis to post more. Not seen anything from him to move him away from the scum side of things.
Hiplop should post more
Highshroomish needs to be better.

I cannot see me voting for d3x at all today. If a wagon forms there I won't be on it.

Ossy opportunistically jumped onto a vote on me. I can understand one person voting for me, but the second so quickly meh...

Why is two people voting for you a big deal?

[Ansuz]

Wanting mantis to post more. Not seen anything from him to move him away from the scum side of things.
Hiplop should post more
Highshroomish needs to be better.

I cannot see me voting for d3x at all today. If a wagon forms there I won't be on it.

Ossy opportunistically jumped onto a vote on me. I can understand one person voting for me, but the second so quickly meh...

Are we playing the same game? Because I was the first to vote and am the only vote on you currently.

Holy crap.

Vote: kthxbye

Scum caught.

What did you even scumread in that post?

I didn't like his comments about RVS. I felt that saying "acum have a harder time with RVS' was a ridiculously scummy thing to say. So I poked at it to see what would happen.

yup are right. Sorry. Kthxbye didn't vote for me, just raised strong scum. Suspicions and then you came along and said I agree and voted. There wasn't actually a vote on me when you voted. Sorry
But you did join in with a tiny tiny mini wagon on me very easily.

So? By your definition of easy, every wagon formed is easy but I haven't seen you criticizing too many of them at all.

[Ansuz]

I think kthx is probably town for the angles he's been taking so far, particularly how he bothered Osseus as much as he did about the scum caught post. I also think that kthx as scum tends to be pretty tunnely while he's been all over the place this game, so I'm pretty sure he's town here. D3x aggression is looking good, gameplay seems so incredulous that people are scumreading him that it's hard to see him being scum, Lynx's logic is too fucked up to gauge whether he's scum playing reactively badly or just flailing about trying to figure out what's going on, geriantim seems pretty scunmy for how he's treating the vote on him, hiplop's still not doing shit, everyone else is being uninteresting (EVEN NOTSCIENCE AND BERT).

VOTE: geriantim

[Ansuz]

Wanting mantis to post more. Not seen anything from him to move him away from the scum side of things.
Hiplop should post more
Highshroomish needs to be better.

I cannot see me voting for d3x at all today. If a wagon forms there I won't be on it.

Ossy opportunistically jumped onto a vote on me. I can understand one person voting for me, but the second so quickly meh...

Are we playing the same game? Because I was the first to vote and am the only vote on you currently.

Holy crap.

Vote: kthxbye

Scum caught.

What did you even scumread in that post?

I didn't like his comments about RVS. I felt that saying "acum have a harder time with RVS' was a ridiculously scummy thing to say. So I poked at it to see what would happen.

yup are right. Sorry. Kthxbye didn't vote for me, just raised strong scum. Suspicions and then you came along and said I agree and voted. There wasn't actually a vote on me when you voted. Sorry
But you did join in with a tiny tiny mini wagon on me very easily.

So? By your definition of easy, every wagon formed is easy but I haven't seen you criticizing too many of them at all.

It was post 97 from ozzy. He just said "I agree with this and would like to raise you a...."

And voted for me. I thought it was ozzy voting for me very easily (just agreeing with someone else's reasoning).
Wagons are fine, but I tend to notice when someone voted for me. I was confused though and forgot it was actually only the one vote on me. I've said sorry for that.

Osseus posted "I raise you a vote" when voting you. He posted "scum caught when voting kthx", and and I'm fairly confident this has been a pattern early game despite not being as up on the game as I should have (Mantis votes silently, kthx votes silently). Why didn't you pick up on any of those if you dislike wagons?

[Ansuz]

In reply to mantis 192

Konowa - at the time hadn't written anything that made me dislike them so I had them ahead of some other people

You - it was because you hadn't mentioned high shroom before you voted for him

Ansuz - I believe it was his post 49.
Didn't like the way they had asked for response from someone else, trying to get them to give away stuff about themselves without contributing themselves. I think that is a way of scum acting (you are in the game, posting, but you give no one else anything to go on for you but let others run up their own rope)
If they continued to do that style of post, I would consider them scum.
Post 154 is similar
And 172
And 174 is again trying to get someone to write more

And 176 (just a why)
And 177 is again asking for someone to explain themselves more, for the benefit of him understand them better.
Oh, 178 is the same
And 179, asking hi plop to give a read
And 181
And 182
We actually have to get to post 183 before I can really see them giving any thoughts of their own

I said in my first read through that I disliked their style of posting (as I think it is a way of scum coasting through, being present but getting others to post enough to make them the center of attention) and as since they have continued doing nothing but

VOTE: vote ansuz

It's pretty a pretty bullshit tactic to look at a cluster of posting that I've done in one sitting, notice the majority of the posting lacks analysis, and attack me for it. If you were reading my posts behind the line, you'd notice that I consistently take more positions than you do, and I take stronger positions than you do. You'll notice that I've been more aggressive than you this entire game and will continue to be more aggressive than you because my questions aren't simply geared to get people to post more: making more people post as scum in counter intuitive since every post a town player makes means that player is that much more invested in the game and thus has more chances to recognize and be recognized as town and to recognize scum and give them more places to hide. What I'm actually doing is taking people's stances and ripping then apart so I know where they're coming from and seeing if that makes sense from a town mindset.

[Ansuz]

we're on page 9 that sprang up while im sick! give me a break kthxbai

why so anti-lurker?

I'm not at all surprised this post is hiplop content for the week.

[Ansuz]

Kk go all on me. Waiting to be put on L-1. Once that happens you may start believing me.

I take your threat and raise you a...

Vote: gameplay506

lol guys we'll be sorry

You're tunneling him because he thinks you're threatening your manhood and you're not good at scumhunting when you're scumhunting with your dick

[Ansuz]

Or defending your dick with scumhunting or whatever

[Ansuz]

FUCK YES LAPTOP ACCESS

[Ansuz]

@Osseus: What I wanted to say with regards to gameplay was that I thought you were more bothered by gameplay threats than you were looking at scum motivation behind his plays. Yes, it makes sense that scum would threaten to be a god mode role in order to avoid the lynch, but it makes less sense that he would make this threat as newb (not good scum, newb scum) and then follow it up with his roleclaim of "oh I'll die the next day". And you say ffery gives fakeclaims and maybe she did, but here's the scum PT from a game of hers that just ended and gameplay coming up with what he's come up in thread would have to be some pretty impressive imagineering I don't think he's capable of, him honestly claiming his role as scum (and the benefits of the role as scum seems most advantageous when bringing about an early LyLo which is quite frankly retarded), or some OP scum partner coaching.

His play outside of that is obnoxious, yeah, but still seems pretty town otherwise. He's been lazy as of late, which makes sense from scum motivation, but he's also still been active, posting, participating. His logic is fucked pretty royally but everything he says is said with a pretty decent amount of conviction which is generally a town tell (look at the "I can't believe you'd lynch a PR" lines in particular, can't really see anyone being as aggressive with that for as long as he did with absolutely no one backing him up unless he actually believed it), plus the "go ahead and lynch me, look at these people after I die and flip exactly what I said I would" anger, plus early game conviction when dealing with lynx+d3x. I can get into why those specific things are town if you'd like (with quotes since I have a laptop!), but I think that addresses most of it.

[Ansuz]

Meanwhile, hiplop wagon is fucking gorgeous.

Scum: Lynx #381 was absolutely terrible. And as OS pointed out shes seemingly flailing despite having any pressure. Seems nervous.
HighShroomish

For me its a dillemma. GP is being annoying as fuck and harmful to town, unfortunately I think hes aligned with town. Is it better to get rid of an anti-town town player (who may be scum) or a IMO better chance at a scum player? I'm going with #2 but it is difficult.

This is pretty much his catchup post in his entirety after he doesn't provide shit for 10 days and doesn't attempt to provide shit for 10 days. It takes the two flavors of the day (gameplay and Lynx) and leaves himself avenues to vote either way that the tide turns: if he wants to vote gameplay, than gameplay is simply being too destructive to town in order to be left alive while Lynch is scum because a post was terrible and she's flailing without any pressure (vague reasonings, just sheeping OS).

I was caught up in those games and could easily catch up.

The first time you posted in this game when you were sick, it was page 6. The second time you posted, it was page 9. Neither of those seem a horribly large mountain of posting to catch up and there's no reason you couldn't have said that you were sick or at least made some small effort to catch up (I'm sure the catchup post you made recently took you what, 10 minutes at most?).

I mean you can believe I was sick and not wanting to catch up on a game or you can believe i'm lying across the entire site. I would persuade you by saying I love mafia far too much to ever do that.

I'm also pretty sure that people (d3x if no one else) have pointed out more things than just selective posting, and yet this is the only part of the case against you that you've cared to address.

[Ansuz]

plenty have given scum reads without voting for those reads.

When people say that you are scummy because you aren't getting votes, they're pointing precisely to the fact that people are calling you scummy without voting you.

[Ansuz]

I had previously said I disliked the way you were posting, and then when I next went through your posts they were all in the same style. It is pretty clever of me to say I thought you were appearing scummy and force you to post 20 times in the exact same way.

The point is that when I post from my phone especially, there are a lot of small posts made in rapid succession. You act like all I've done is ask questions and refuse to give analysis the entire game by stating "look at all of these posts with nothing but questions!", while in my posting flurries, I ask questions and give analysis. This is either you not noticing the time stamps are all clustered together or you willfully ignoring that fact in order to fuel your shit case.

[Ansuz]

I had previously said I disliked the way you were posting, and then when I next went through your posts they were all in the same style. It is pretty clever of me to say I thought you were appearing scummy and force you to post 20 times in the exact same way.

The point is that when I post from my phone especially, there are a lot of small posts made in rapid succession. You act like all I've done is ask questions and refuse to give analysis the entire game by stating "look at all of these posts with nothing but questions!", while in my posting flurries, I ask questions and give analysis. This is either you not noticing the time stamps are all clustered together or you willfully ignoring that fact in order to fuel your shit case.

It's also a line of attack I don't understand coming from you: the only two times you've provided analysis this game is early game when you gave comments on a few people, and your case on me. Everything else has been either questions in the same style my questions have carried, or responses to questions other people have asked you. How has my content/question ratio been different than yours?

[Ansuz]

Konowa thanks gameplay506 for at least acknowledging Konowa.

Vote: HighShroomish

i'm not so sure i like this vote, that came right after oss's

Why did you make the comment on this vote as opposed to the hiplop wave of votes?

[Ansuz]

I also have every intention of hammering hiplop if his next string of posts are as horrible as the last string of posts.

[Ansuz]

@d3x Two other votes, as I put mine back on HighShroomish.

[Ansuz]

Why?

[Ansuz]

Vote: hiplop

[Ansuz]

And I thought you wanted to wait until hiplop's next posts?

Never said that I didn't.
I don't think that voting HighShroomish means that you're more likely to hear his thoughts, and I don't think not voting him will mean he will hold back more thoughts than he would otherwise.

[Ansuz]

Some of hiplop's vote just seem too casual. If its a wagon for reactions; that's one thing. But this is turning into a mob.

I'm not wagoning for reactions, and I don't think other people are either. I think there's enough on the table to lynch him and I'd like to see him lynched.

[Ansuz]

Especially when this is his reaction to being lynched. If I were town and someone declared intent to hammer after my next string of posts and then LOLhammered immediately afterwards, I'd have a much more poignant reaction than "ugh". And, we know he's around. We know he's reading. Why hasn't he popped up with a post yet?

[Ansuz]

But it won't be MY vote hammering, that's for sure.

Why? You still think that he's scum.
You agree nothing that he's done looks mildly townish.
Are you just afraid to hammer? I can unvote if that's the case.

[Ansuz]

Then there's the fact that hiplop (while not contributing much) is doing less harm than others. Sure he's running a smear campaign on me, attempting to feed and stoke the flames that a few others craved (personally that's scum motivation)

"I mean sure, look at this list of scummy shit that he did, but he's not doing THAT much harm!"
What the hell is this? Why would you back off hiplop when you're still not satisfied that hiplop is town? Is your method really to interrogate and get a reaction out of every player regardless of what their reaction is? Sure, some players are getting less pressure than others, but it seems like you're not going to be able to pressure every single player at the same time and whenever you're pressuring one player, you're letting others get away.

4) If he's scum, then that makes me prime suspect, doesn't it? But if he's town and I lynch, it'll look bad on my part. I'm not putting myself in that position.

You look scummier based on your treatment of the wagon regardless of hiplop's alignment.

[Ansuz]

???
now why did you hammer?

[Ansuz]

lynx you're kinda batshit insane but i kind of like it

[Ansuz]

I MADE IT

[Ansuz]

I read my prod today and I was like :fuck i better post" and now i'm posting so fucking come at me

[Ansuz]

(1) Ansuz knows that lurking/lack of effort aren't scumtells.

and yet so many times lurking/lack of effort equal scumtells because for so many people being active and showing effort and acting like they know what to do prove to be towntells. this isn't the only time i've pushed on a lurker before.

[Ansuz]

A: I can help you by unvoting.

Lynx seemed to be afraid to hammer for god knows what reason.
I offered to hammer because I don't care where on the wagon I end up when a scum suspect is dying.

[Ansuz]

B: Wait, why did you hammer? what kind of mangling is this

i'm pretty sure no one actually expected lynx to immediately hammer
if they did, please tell me why because normally when people are like "i refuse to lynch this person they are too town" they don't turn around three seconds later and go "okay! die!" unless their names are bert or lynx apparently.

[Ansuz]

Really? Are people blind to Osseus vs Lynx?

i'm not blind, just don't care

[Ansuz]

Right now I can think of three scenarios for that

I can think of three scenarios?
I can think of more maybe?
I don't know how that helps and I don't know how my response to this would help but hey look at us taking risks for another's benefit!

[Ansuz]

Are you scum?

nope!
your attack just didn't make me hard

[Ansuz]

my sus list:
ansuz

[Ansuz]

[Ansuz]

Because as TM pointed out you alluded to drawing conclusions about the flip BEFORE the flip.

plenty of times, actually
and still we kept pushing because we...
a) didn't care what you thought if hiplop flipped town
b) didn't think he would flip town

[Ansuz]

distinction between hiplop and HighShroomish equals a big fat zero.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=44900
i had two reads that game
hiplop was scum. bnb was town.
hiplop played here like he did there. i thought he was much more active as town versus highshroomish who doesn't say shit regardless of alignment

[Ansuz]

Are you scum?

nope!
your attack just didn't make me hard

Because I haven't attacked you really, and that quote above was addressed to Lynx not to you. Unless....

YOU ARE LYNX /conspiracy

DUN DUN DUN

[Ansuz]

FUCK I WAS GONNA RESPOND TO THAT WITH "WAIT I CAN DO THIS"

[Ansuz]

Osseus, I find it awfully strange how you are attempting to lead the lynch mob against me, yet another innocent, after you already led it against hiplop instead of looking at scummier players such as Ansuz and HighShroomish.

[Ansuz]

But for real I don't even know what you're arguing because A) I wasn't addressing you and B) we thought hiplop was going to flip scum which is why we pushed that lynch.

wtf i was agreeing with you i thought you were asking me why i responded to you asking me if i'm scum

[Ansuz]

no there i was pretending to be lynx =(

[Ansuz]

osseus baby sometimes i feel like you don't understand me

[Ansuz]

Ansuz pushed my hammer, and Osseus was all for the wagon. Having hiplop flip town puts them at the top of the suspect list.

Great! We pushed a mislynch! We're scum! Anything else? Because as TM pointed out you alluded to drawing conclusions about the flip BEFORE the flip.

Because as TM pointed out you alluded to drawing conclusions about the flip BEFORE the flip.

plenty of times, actually
and still we kept pushing because we...
a) didn't care what you thought if hiplop flipped town
b) didn't think he would flip town

pedit: fuck you my logic still makes sense

[Ansuz]

also i am home

[Ansuz]

as in "lynx, you drew allusions to putting us on the top of your suspect list if hiplop flipped town and we saw that but kept pushing because A & B"

[Ansuz]

Oh ansuz wagon looks good

VOTE: Ansuz

Why is one of OP and LK scum GP? (:D)

content sucks so far, please try again baby doll

[Ansuz]

So Konowa is being lazy and likes either Ansuz or HighShroomish votes since Konowa thinks the likelihood of Ansuz and HighShroomish being scum together is high.

Vote: Ansuz

For posterity, building on Tunnel's earlier post about Ansuz, distinction between hiplop and HighShroomish equals a big fat zero.

last time i remember responding to this post i posted the link to graveyard shift, challenged you to find the differences, and then said highshroomish is always useless as hell or something

[Ansuz]

Okay that meebe makes more sense (but only maybe). Lynx started the day with a vote on my slot, but already drew the conclusion that scum was pushing the hiplop wagon before hiplop had a chance to be so kind and die. So that's bad logic or scum logic.

To me, his reasoning went "if hiplop is scum, I will look bad but if he's town all these people are scummy but i think he's likelier town than scum so i'm willing to take the risk of him flipping scum"

[Ansuz]

although i will admit him pushing people for being on hiplop is kind of sketchy
i mean i did pressure him obviously because i wanted hiplop blood but it reminds me of that movie where there was a wendy's or something and that caller made the female employee suck the boss's boyfriend's dick or something?
weird fucking movie

[Ansuz]

holy fuck

vote: geriantim

[Ansuz]

vote: geraintm

[Ansuz]

To summertime what I know

Hiplop was town
I am town

I believe gameplay to be down
These three things make me think the following about ozzy.

539 - the switch to hiplop. Remember hiplop is going to turn up town.

702 - a vote for me. In my eyes, almost all of ozzy's votes are on townies.

BERT
DEAR BERT
can you please tell me what about this case, based on the quotes I've selected, is bullshit?

[Ansuz]

or bullcrap, if you prefer

[Ansuz]

Routine post of intrigue.

I hammered hiplop because we were getting nowhere, fast. We had four days left to get wagon reactions, yet certain folk were against playing detective.

I'm all for wagons. Whereas Ansuz, d3x, Burning_Earth and Osseus were all for blood (even though Ansuz first stated he'd wait for more content from hiplop before voting him). In the end, being willing to risk lynching town isn't as pro-town as trying to get a better read on others.

But Konowa insisted on badgering gameplay506, even after changing votes.
HighShroomish was comfortably under the radar.
Burning_Earth was happy with hopping onto wagons.
TM was doing his D1 Idgaf routine.
Can't forget geraintm and Mantis!

tl;dr - Town was clearly settling for sitting around and having someone dead, regardless.

Its ironic that the ones under suspicion are now having a nice conversation. Keep it up, my interest is piqued.

I said that I would hammer hiplop if his next series of posts were as bad as the last series of posts (they were). I would have voted him immediately if I knew that it wouldn't be a hammer when I voted him, hence my vote after d3x's post. You blaming your hammer on the rest of the town is bad: I assume that you have the mental capacity to make your own decisions, and I assume you know that if you want someone alive you don't kill them. There was no reason you couldn't do your detective work when people wanted hiplop dead. It's not like the undivided participation of the town is needed to ask questions, no? You could also be doing detective work now with the lynch candidates who are talking, but instead all you are doing is talking about what went wrong yesterday (which, believe it or not, helps us approximately not at all today). Why is that?

[Ansuz]

Ansuz. You make no sense. Plz stop.

What didn't make sense? If you need me to, I can hold your hand through my logic.

[Ansuz]

Do you think I am scummy or something?

...duh?...

But if that is the case, why isn't he voting for me?

He is...? And even if he wasn't, I don't see an issue of having two suspects and voting one instead of both.

[Ansuz]

To summertime what I know

Hiplop was town
I am town

I believe gameplay to be down
These three things make me think the following about ozzy.

539 - the switch to hiplop. Remember hiplop is going to turn up town.

702 - a vote for me. In my eyes, almost all of ozzy's votes are on townies.

BERT
DEAR BERT
can you please tell me what about this case, based on the quotes I've selected, is bullshit?

Explain to me. I know the alignment of two people ly, myself and hiplop. I have a strong lean on gameplay. I am basing my voting on how I interpret the actions of others.
I realise none of you can go through the same logical process as myself as none of you know I am town, but am I meant to play this game thinking I am scum or something?

Pleas,e, please explain where my reasoning for my own vote breaks down.

I grasp your logic perfectly, and will happily explain why it is scum logic as soon as Bert responds to my question, since I didn't ask him for absolutely no reason.

[Ansuz]

Vote: Burning Earth

[Ansuz]

Hiplop was town
I am town

I believe gameplay to be down
These three things make me think the following about ozzy.

I said in post 150 I thought ozzy was very quick to follow some one else's lead to vote for me.
Post 247 vote gameplay, someone I think is town
Post 253, to me looks like setting up to lynch someone no matter their claim.
Ditto 255

His post 510 said "Maybe a Vig can be so kind as to test his claim. "
This to me, knowing I believe gameplay to be town, is a scum trying to get a vig to waste their shot on someone the scum knows to be town, also making sure no scum is targeted.

Also in post 510 we get "Players I want more out of are Geraintm, Shroomish, and hiplop."

2 of these are town. It makes me very suspicious that once ozzy's alignment is known that shroom will be the scum partner they have tossed into his scum team to make it look credible.

526 - still pushing for the lunch of gameplay


539 - the switch to hiplop. Remember hiplop is going to turn up town.

702 - a vote for me. In my eyes, almost all of ozzy's votes are on townies.

My biggest problem with your case is that it is so shallow and boils down to "I think ozzy voted townies" and that's it.
Your problem with his post 150 is that he was jumping too quick on a vote for you who you know is town.
Your problem with 253 and 255 is that he's setting up gameplay, who you believe to be town, as scum.
Your problem with 510 is that he's asking for a vig to shoot gameplay, who you believe is town, and that he calls out you and gameplay.
526, 539, 702... your entire case is that he's voting for townies, and that's it. So, when we knock down your entire case because it's based on A) criticizing a read on hiplop you didn't hold yourself, and B) criticizing a read that is greatly bolstered by inside information, we're not cherry picking your case: we're addressing legitimately all of it.

[Ansuz]

BE vote is pretty straightforward: the only wagon that he's shown any resistance or dislike towards is Lynx's for some unexplainable reason, he hasn't put any thought into any of his actions and is generally happy contradicting previous positions for little or no reason (and somehow coincidentally sees scumminess in the flavor of the day whenever the wagon builds up, but not a moment beforehand and not a moment after).

[Ansuz]

@Ansuz: why did you ignore ^that? If geraintm is town and a vig, this kinda means you are dead tonight..... I'd also like to note you DIDN'T vote for Ozzy nor can I find any posts from you where you talk to them directly....

Logic follows that I don't believe that he's town and a vig, but I'm willing to give him a night to test his claim because it's retarded not to do so otherwise. I also doubt that I'd be able to convince him not to shoot me since he certainly wouldn't be able to convince me not to shoot him if our positions were reversed.

But ozzie wasn't going through the whole post. He was picking on one tiny bit.
You, you kept.sayijg my post was bs but wouldn't explain why till a third party joined in.

He picked on a tiny bit of your post which ended up being the point that you made repeatedly throughout the whole thing.
I hoped to get tunnelmates input on your post since they've just been sitting back and uncharacteristically not doing shit this entire game, but I eventually got bored.

[Ansuz]

tl;dr the unexpected changes, a lot of it feels like intentionally giving off the vibe of something truly impressive, when in reality it's just pursuing something other than a vote park.

So I'm trying to give off the impression of dazzling everyone with magical god cases? Where?
I don't understand the second part at all.

[Ansuz]

[Ansuz]

ansuz, what are your thoughts on konowa?

I think that Konowa looks town. I'd describe him as "active" and "aggressive", which are points that I normally don't use to describe him in general but even less so when he's scum. In particular, this post looks like the "not caring town" you seem to have magically found in BE because it comes after a lot of patient digging and prodding found in #86 and #270.

and i just iso'ed burning earth.. he kind of seems like non caring town.

How does saying "and I still don't care?" translate to noncaring town? Is it just town because he claims not to care?

Konowa doesn't remember anything of Burning_Earth's play at all?

(sounds like a pretty good reason to vote him to me?)

that and i think nacho usually has better reads..... (his vote on geraintm for one)... and i shouldn't talk since i placed a vote on him as well, but it really was more for pressure :/

I don't think I was wrong with geraintm, but we can open that discussion tomorrow when his vig somehow doesn't go through and he somehow doesn't have it anymore.

and today the trend has continued with his voting timelines where he is just a follower of Ansuz's voting patterns. Too credulous.

He voted Burning_Earth, who I voted later. He in no way just followed my voting patterns.

So I'm trying to give off the impression of dazzling everyone with magical god cases? Where?

Everywhere.

Put some makeup on and straighten on your hair or some shit because your inner beauty is lacking right now =(

[Ansuz]

Still available for sheeping, but, yeah, if no one else knows what the hell they're doing they should sheep me.

BE vote is pretty straightforward: the only wagon that he's shown any resistance or dislike towards is Lynx's for some unexplainable reason, he hasn't put any thought into any of his actions and is generally happy contradicting previous positions for little or no reason (and somehow coincidentally sees scumminess in the flavor of the day whenever the wagon builds up, but not a moment beforehand and not a moment after).

Sheep.
If you need to be talked through the vote, let me know because my horoscope says I'm feeling extra helpful today so I'm more than willing to hold your hand through this the entire way.

[Ansuz]

It might be better than voting a one-shot vig claim, which is almost comparable to voting a one-shot friendly neighbor claim.

[Ansuz]

you seemed so certain that he was scum.

This part is generally the part that confuses me.
He seemed to hold conviction over one thing HighShroomish said being scummy, but that doesn't necessarily translate into a strong conviction of HighShroomish being scum as you're saying it did, unless I'm misunderstanding you.

[Ansuz]

When has Konowa played with either of these heads?

You were in my first newbie, modded by Zu_Faul. We've also played together on several other occasions and I read FakeGod's recent Alice game where Vi got angry

[Ansuz]

I guess Konowa holds a more special place in Nacho's heart than Nacho does in Konowa's.

[Ansuz]

</3

[Ansuz]

!

[Ansuz]

Funny how Ansuz gets heat for lots of his content. I'm compelled to vote him. Time to read D2 again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfWlot6h_JM

[Ansuz]

Osseus, I find it awfully strange how you are attempting to lead the lynch mob against me, yet another innocent, after you already led it against hiplop instead of looking at scummier players such as Ansuz and HighShroomish.

It's crap like this which needs to be lynched.

"I'm just going to vaguely cast suspicion over you because you voted a dead townie and now you're voting me and you led the lynch of the dead townie but not HS or me but WAIT I voted on the dead townie's wagon shuddup also yeah you should have been looking at me but also I just said I'm suspicious of you for voting me before "

VOTE: Ansuz

no there i was pretending to be lynx =(

you're voting me for a post i made while i was pretending to be lynx
additionally, you're voting me for that post about 200 posts too late
right after i voted you.
it's almost like... you're finding reasons to try to vote me and failing horribly? correct me if i'm wrong!

[Ansuz]

I definitely think Lynx is scummy, and I feel like Lynx flipping scum is the only thing that is going to prove I'm town at this point. So he gets my vote this DP, you and BurningEarth are close seconds.

there's no way in hell lynx or konowa is ever getting lynched, so i'd recommend skipping through whatever process you planned on going through and voting burning earth now.

[Ansuz]

Explain why the bold is scummy and I'd love it.

i find it artificial, like he decided to white knight exactly one townie and jump on the lynch of everyone else. i don't find it natural because if he was a "devil may care" type of player, it makes no sense for him to suddenly and instantly such a powerfully strong townread. if he was the type of player who got those type of reads normally, it makes no sense for him to not attempt to explain it/not form anything close to that read in an additional 40 or however many extra pages of content.

[Ansuz]

That's just... gross

now you know how i felt when i read your post

[Ansuz]

i don't want off the top of your head, i want you to bring him in focus for once

[Ansuz]

Josh B saying "I don't know why I said that, I was tired" is scummy. Saying that he wanted a lynch because it would make him look town is scummy. I'm just gonna vote him now, because ansuz doesn't seem to be getting any votes

VOTE: Josh B.

You don't have anything to say about #1013?

[Ansuz]

I'm going to vote BE too. He was my first scum read in the game. But not until I get this issue resolved with Konowa.

what the fuck does konowa have to do with burning earth?
when you're voting lynx?

[Ansuz]

and the stuff he has done.. ie. suspicion on you.. i like and get it.

his suspicion on me is based on taking my #774 seriously, where i was pretending to be lynx. aka the only reason you like him is because he's voting me.

[Ansuz]

and if you thought that i magically conjured something.. why are you not pushing on me?

because i think you're horribly wrong as opposed to horribly scummy

[Ansuz]

it's cause lynx is probably town. do not sheep, thor

this has absolutely nothing to do with my point.

[Ansuz]

Yeah sheep us instead Thorey man

you know someone's bound to jump on this post^

i thought the josh jump was scummier but hey that's just me

[Ansuz]

i do really think ansuz will flip as scum. if that's desp and nacho... come on. they are normally obv town. and i'm not trying to make excuses... just i haven't seen a hint of towny-ness from them

and you've been willfully ignoring it

[Ansuz]

I am fairly sure at this point at least one of Ansuz and ozzy is scum. With me stating ages ago that I would shoot the other who wasn't lynched, if scum weren't either of those two then scum would have found a way by now to get one of them lynched and the other shot by me.

As this hasn't happened, it can only lead me to believe that it is because at least one is scum.

if we're both town and scum lynch another townie, they can still pretty reasonably believe you'll shoot within us.
thus there's literally no reason to push a mislynch on either of us for any reason.

[Ansuz]

If both you and ozzy are town then scum could get both of you killed today, kill a third townie overnight and have me set up as an obvious lynch target tomorrow. That just seems such an easy play to me, so easy....

Or they could get a different townie + one of ozzy/me killed today, kill a third townie overnight and have you set up as an obvious lynch target tomorrow.

[Ansuz]

What are your reads?

[Ansuz]

I feel like I should ask this, particularly to kthx and mantisdreamz. What were your cases for Highshroomish as scum?

After post 135 people calling HS scum just kind of seemed to take off. He didn't explain himself very well, he didn't even try. I come in, and I see that yea lynx is probably scum, but I'm trying to explain it more. I guess, I'm not doing a very good job of it.
I'm going to vote BE too. He was my first scum read in the game. But not until I get this issue resolved with Konowa.

i had no case for HS as scum! there wasn't enough said on his part.

why was BE your first scum read?

He was doing a lot of coaching (asking others for their opinions without really giving his). When I was reading, I felt like I knew where most others players stood in the game except for him.

(then vote him)

[Ansuz]

I feel like I should ask this, particularly to kthx and mantisdreamz. What were your cases for Highshroomish as scum?

After post 135 people calling HS scum just kind of seemed to take off. He didn't explain himself very well, he didn't even try. I come in, and I see that yea lynx is probably scum, but I'm trying to explain it more. I guess, I'm not doing a very good job of it.
I'm going to vote BE too. He was my first scum read in the game. But not until I get this issue resolved with Konowa.

i had no case for HS as scum! there wasn't enough said on his part.

why was BE your first scum read?

He was doing a lot of coaching (asking others for their opinions without really giving his). When I was reading, I felt like I knew where most others players stood in the game except for him.

(then vote him)

(i don't know why this process is so difficult)

[Ansuz]

I'm going to vote BE too. He was my first scum read in the game. But not until I get this issue resolved with Konowa.

what the fuck does konowa have to do with burning earth?
when you're voting lynx?

This was a reply to 1014 Sorry I didn't post it directly.

p edit
VOTE: Burning Earth

I still want to talk to Konowa.

I still don't understand where the BE & Konowa connection comes from.

[Ansuz]

sorry, i got a holiday work other commitments punch will be back soon

[Ansuz]

@ Ansuz - Who's reads? Mine?

Yes, I wanted you to expand upon your reads. You had a lot of excitement early game, a very strong albeit not very concentrated push to gamesolve and I loved that from your slot, and yet it's stopped pretty much completely. Show your life again, little one.

and that's the thing again.. your choice of wording. if you think it's willful.. wouldn't you think it's scummy?

Not necessarily, no. I think you formed an early scumread on me based on whatever and have maintained that read for me the rest of the game as opposed to actually reading anything that I'm writing (I feel that way a lot between you/Bert). I'm pretty confident if you can see towniness in B_E you can see towniness in pretty much anyone.

Maybe because fferyllt wanted to design a fun game? You really are deep in some outguessing the mod, Konowa can't tell if it's scum or just badTown.

This is probably the skeeviest timing I've ever seen in my entire life.
That being said, I don't mind holding off and testing tomorrow because I don't really see a problem with waiting a single day to do so and while it's kind of hard to believe in one herp derp coincidence, Konowa's railroaded himself into this possition pretty powerfully.

Would anyone fake it?
Why would anyone fake it?

People fake post restrictions for the same reasons they fake claims.

"Nacho and Desp wouldn't do" whatever it is that they are doing and it stuck with me.

The quote is from mantis and she said that we would be obvtown if we were town.
Do you agree with that?

ffs, you say you have ansuz in the wanting to lynch category, and that you don't like the players on his bw? yet you vote lynx..someone who isn't on the ansuz bw. wtf?

He thinks I'm scummy, but he acknowledges that it's not likely I would be bussed and the people on my wagon are scummy as hell. He ends up voting Lynx who is a stronger scumread than I am (I'd also wager that geraintm is a stronger scumread for him as well).

Doesn't matter at this point, there is at least two D2 so I will force it at this point and say third there just to clear this entire situation up.

unvote;
Vote: Konowa

To make sure vote change occurs after third slip.

konowa, please don't .

remove the vote (pls)

His vote doesn't count so I don't think it's that big of a deal, love.

@Ansuz- There's a post or two on page 40 that I'd be interested in hearing your responses. I think they're specifically aimed at you, so I'm not sure if you just missed them or...?

I'd go back and look, but I'm blitzing a catchup right now. I'll glance back later.

[Ansuz]

Or, since that wasn't that bad, I'll look back now.

[Ansuz]

I don't think I was wrong with geraintm, but we can open that discussion tomorrow when his vig somehow doesn't go through and he somehow doesn't have (

Do you not believe my claim?

No, not at all.
I have a good feeling about it becoming incredibly obvious when the sun comes up though!

[Ansuz]

[Ansuz]

I'm still trying to understand why.
The alternative doesn't look bad at all, though.

[Ansuz]

Talk me through your reads,

Mantis is selling me on her paranoia of you currently.

[Ansuz]

Why am I even initiating this conversation? Do you already have me sorted?

you replaced obvious town, so yes

[Ansuz]

I'm blitzing a catchup right now.

(my goal for today is to get current on games and go to sleep by 10 minutes ago. if you're looking for a pow wow, you'll have to wait.)

[Ansuz]

but short form:
osseus, thor, mantis, +2 confirmed town are town
lean town on tunnel & konowa
lean scum on josh, maybe lean scum on lynx
burning earth & geraintm scum

[Ansuz]

I shot geraintm last night.
I'm a one-shot vig, and I have no caveats whatsoever to my ability.
Discuss.

[Ansuz]

You speak like a pirate, talk like a pirate and run like a pirate.

Because he claimed vig, there was no reason for me not to shoot him during the night as opposed to counterclaiming him in public. People voting him was useless that day because there was no reason he ever should have been lynched without a chance to prove himself without a counterclaim, and even then, bullets are the hardest form of proof.

Ansuz - So you're claiming a role that's already been used?

Yes.

Vote: Ansuz

Talk me through what you think happened last night.

@Lynx -

Currently, working theory is that he shot OP but OP is bulletproof.

Was Ansuz insistent that Ger was scum yesterday AFTER Ger claimed Vig?

I don't think I was wrong with geraintm, but we can open that discussion tomorrow when his vig somehow doesn't go through and he somehow doesn't have (

Do you not believe my claim?

No, not at all.
I have a good feeling about it becoming incredibly obvious when the sun comes up though!

[Ansuz]

Do you understand why people are voting Konowa?

[Ansuz]

Currently, working theory is that he shot OP but OP is bulletproof.

Did you ask a question that wasn't answered by this?

[Ansuz]

Burning_Earth is almost certainly getting lynched today unless something happens with Konowa so it's bad to check status before he's on the wagon since he could conceivably quickhammer if he's off it.

[Ansuz]

So your working theory is that scum shot Mantis?

Yes.

[Ansuz]

I think it's approximately 1000x more likely than geraintm shooting mantis.

[Ansuz]

Why do you think scum shot Mantis? I would consider that a sub-optimal shot for them at this stage.

I could see scum shooting mantis because of a positive PR result on mantis.
I could see scum passing up shooting the more obvious targets (d3x) because of protection worries and in turn shooting someone who seemed pretty town.
What is your working theory for what happened last night?

[Ansuz]

Why do you think scum shot Mantis? I would consider that a sub-optimal shot for them at this stage.

I could see scum shooting mantis because of a positive PR result on mantis.
I could see scum passing up shooting the more obvious targets (d3x) because of protection worries and in turn shooting someone who seemed pretty town.
What is your working theory for what happened last night?

I can see a couple of possibilities and consider the entire thing very strange - which is why I'm questioning people who seem to feel it's very obvious.
I would say the one that concerns you the most is the idea that you are the scum kill being passed off as a Vig kill and that the Mantis kill was Ger's kill and/or Ger was prevented by a scum Doc/BP.

I think the idea geraintm shot Mantis is a little silly.

[Ansuz]

@Ansuz: why did you save your shot N1

I think it's a good idea when you're town with a one-shot vig in a mini to hold your shot until the game goes to evens or you have a good shot that you can take of someone who's already claimed. When you're taking a shot on odds, you're taking a mislynch away from the rest of the town: I'd rather not take that mislynch away without complete information (aka a claim).

[Ansuz]

Limited Access until Monday

sorry for no V/LA earlier, wasn't expecting work to kick my ass quite so hard

[Ansuz]

Bodyguard + Hider + Doctor seems like too many opportunities for scum missed kills, even with two one-shot vigs.
N2 doesn't really make sense unless geraintm shot bulletproof OP: I see no reason for him to lie about his shot and shoot his strongest scumread.
d3x not dying doesn't really make sense unless A) d3x is scum (doesn't make sense with flipped aesthetic), or B) scum was leaving him alive to prep for a fakeclaim.
OP posting things like this:

@Kthx, I'll be confirmed town when Ger anti-town kills me, yes.

Doesn't really make sense if he was a doctor: why not just claim instead of accept death?

[Ansuz]

It was Thor665 defending B_E, rather that Thor665 was arguing pretty heavily for a OP lynch based on mechanics. Never said Thor was defending B_E.

My understanding of what I was saying was arguing that both were proven scum, and acting curious that people didn't seem to notice the one over the other.
So, again, considering yesterday, what exactly did I gain out of bothering to advance one over the other? There is no particular gain besides maybe fear of a Tracker/Watcher/Jailer.
So there was no reason to lynch in any particular order.
So what is your scumtell on me again?

I agree with the fact that it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for Thor to stick his neck out protecting a scumbuddy that's likely dead anyways and a mislynch that's 90% cemented anyways. I want to do rereading if I can manage, but I don't think this is a particularly strong point against him.

[Ansuz]

But I'm thinking scum night kill = 'killing' ability. You forget that one scum does the killing, and when its down to last scum, they get that ability.

Are you volunteering as last scum, Thor? You seem to be the odd one out right now. Why ask me to investigate Konowa and then insist on waiting for my results just to think I'm scum? Better - care to actually explain why you think I'm scum? Words are good.

d3x's ISO and hate against Ansuz seems right to me.

Last scum should also have an additional ability as opposed to scum setup being goon+goon+aesthetic, so if I was the last scum, I probably would have investigated as something else. I'm also having difficulty believing that somehow "ability cop" translates to 'one word translation of complicated roles": vote altering doesn't even make sense as a descriptor word for what Konowa does (he affects threshold mostly), and I can't really see how you'd sum up Thor's ability either.

[Ansuz]

4 alive. 3 town, 1 scum... Isn't this lylo? Why would you be trying so hard to make sense of things but not cooperate? Your arguments are all about roles, yet you're hiding yours. The only reason gameplay lived was because his power role claimed made things tricky for us. Strange that he was never night killed though. I'd think that's a role scum would want gone... Hm.

Vote: Thor665

That's staying there until you comply. Role, abilities, caveats. Nothing worse than refusing to do the easiest thing ever.

Also... What's the deal with Ansuz? *knocks on screen* Mod Lady? Anyone? I'm getting tired of reading Thor's rabble.

Why would scum want a bulletproof ish role gone?
You do realize that slot has already claimed and you could conceivably read back and find said claim?

[Ansuz]

I can't really see Konowa having the power he has as final scum: he would have to have some additional power on top of what he had already and I don't see multipower investigating as the relatively harmless one when there's already and aesthetic immune to investigation and a good that presumably investigates as killing along with two one shot vigs.

[Ansuz]

So you cleared Thor665 and Konowa here. And I only get *one* result (hence the one-word statement) on someone, regardless of their abilities.

Vote: Ansuz

That's my final answer.

What prompted this vote, exactly?

[Ansuz]

3) The only explanation for the extra kill would be the Inventor handing someone a gun. Perhaps obtained the gun and shot someone, then claimed vig (not sure why that seems like a good play, but you're teasing the fact that we all made terrible plays, so...)

I'm not really sure how I would get away with receiving a vig from Tunnelmates and claiming it as my full role while he was still alive.

[Ansuz]

Nacho has access to a laptop and will stop playing like shit.

[Ansuz]

So, as far as role-relating scumhunting goes:

I am not told who shot me. I am told I was shot. Then instead of dying right away during the night, I die in the end of the day. Simple as that. It isn't actually a safe scum claim cus if someone really hits me I will obviously die. So. Yeah push me more scums.

This makes a lot of sense to me in a game with an expected (funny it didn't happen that way, but still expected) three deaths N1. There are a lot of roles that make that high death rate a little more painless (hider, doctor, bodyguard) and this role seems a nice addition if ffery's trying to go with a mostly power role setup with positive town utility but not town utility that scum can't deal with. Considering gameplay wasn't fed this fakeclaim, it would be a pretty impressive fakeclaim.

[Ansuz]

Konowa's role as scum has him having the vote-altering god abilities in addition to a redirecting ability which is possible in this setup sure but that's strange and fucked up but it makes most sense to function as a negative utility role for town.

[Ansuz]

Universal backup fits in a mostly vanillaless game but is also swingy as fuck when it seems most power roles are either A) useless or B) strong as fuck. It makes less sense in a game with a hider who should die pretty early if they are playing well: doctor/bodyguard getting backed up is also stupidly strong as well.

[Ansuz]

What holds me back from voting Lynx is Lynx's Day 1 play and Lynx's Day 1 play alone. I was reading it as pretty strongly town when it happened although that town cred has been pretty much been burned to the ground based on Lynx's later play, which I legitimately hate.

[Ansuz]

VOTE: LynxKuroneko

[Ansuz]

Don't hate the players, hate the game

[Ansuz]

I don't think anyone did anything stupid all game, we were just really OP once everyone claimed

[Ansuz]

So you did have a redirect power then? That an ability cop couldn't detect?
Because otherwise I hate the players.

Yes and I guess so? We probably showed as killing because she didn't investigate us until we were the last one remaining

[Ansuz]

No it was pretty OP. We made Ger shoot himself and redirected kthx to ourselves