Mini 495 - Mafia on a Plane! GAME OVER! =)

[Korlash]

How Dybeck reacts to his crippled case on dybeck... huh... either thats a typo or I am going to run into some odd shit when I finish reading his novel... Either way... I will try my best to get through it tonight and post something...

[Korlash]

Oh geeze... I think I got up to day two before falling asleep... Man... Long game this is...

I even thought I had taken notes in my little black book... lets see if I can find it...

"Dear Diary,

Today Jenny Logan put a frog down my pan-"

>.>
<.<

wrong book...

Ok I thought I could maybe do a little input by reading from when these Dybeck/Oman bandwagons started, yet... That seems to be like... I don't know... Probably right after day 2 started... So It might take me a bit longer then expected to get up to speed...

Uh... so... theres a small chance I won't be able to actually post my thoughts tonight... Not cause I'm lurking or anything, mostly cause I actually have to get ready for work in the morning and I don't know... sleep... I hope ><

So... yeah... I'll read as much as I can, expect something in the morning or at the latest tomorrow... sorry.. I'm only human ^^' .... I think...

[Korlash]

Ok I'll give a little comment on the goings on right now, still haven't gotten up to snuff with the full thread yet though...

From what I have read/understand theres some big Orig discussion. The way I see it is, if he is mafia, then the actual Vig will kill him tonight. if he is a vig, then he has a chance to kill a mafia tonight. So either way it looks to me a good idea to keep him alive... But I may change my mind come another... 400 posts under my belt... ^^'

[Korlash]

Oh oh oh..

Unvote:

My bad >.>

But my point is that by allowing Orig to live, it allows for an almost certain nonmafia lynch tomorrow (assuming he is SK/Vig). At least that's how I see it. I mean, what do we do tomorrow when he isnt dead, and we have two nks to worry about the next night?

Then again... there is also a possibility come tomorrow there are two less mafia... We could go ahead and lynch the vig meaning we are guaranteed to be short two town and still have the... what is it? Three? Mafia... Its 3 right... I just seems odd to me that anyone would think killing a town power role would be a good choice right now...

[Korlash]

Ok I'm done for the night... Tired and stuff...
But I feel I should give what I have now, that way I A) Don't forget them, and B) You guys can just answer them now instead of waiting until I get to it come page 38 or so...

Big Issue:

As of this very second... I would vote Volkan based on three of his past posts I find/deem weird and/or suspicious. Note that not being caught up means I may be missing something and this should in no way be taken as my official opinion... just my thoughts as of now...

First in Post 487, He lists his "Mafioso list" he goes on to say he leaves off Orig and AlyG because of roleclaims. I can agree with this... What I cannot agree with is him saying "Shaft.ed appears protown so I will not consider him for a lynch" And then follow it up by concluding "So 3 out of the 5 on the list are the mafia!"

I cannot overlook someone trying to push another's innocents by conveniently overlooking them. There is no reason not to suspect Shaft.ed... at least none I see... You may concider him protown, think he is protown, have strong feelings, blah blah blah, but to make a scum list and not put on people you have no PROOF of being town... means you are trying to cover them up in some way...

Result: I find this to be a logical reason to think about a Volkan/Shaft.ed/ (Orig or AlyG) partnership... This by no means is proof of guilt, but I would like some explanation before I start narrowing my whole reread focus on Volkan... That can be way dangerous and I won't hurt us by not being up to full speed ><

Next issue...

Post 544,

I raised the option of an AlyG lynch, as I said, to see what people though. By that, of course, I meant that I was interested to see who supported it. Again, shaft.ed, you have taken the pro-town option, whereas Oman has, again, supported something on a dodgy basis. I have done this also, which was why I raised the AlyG thing, to see the extent of what Oman would support.

The fact that Orig is supporting Dybeck's lynch is a little perturbing to me. If Dybeck is SK, then his death is going to mean the end of Orig.

HELLO? OTHER TOWN PLAYERS? HOW CAN YOU HAVE COMPLETLY OVERLOOKED THIS?

*cries blood*

How can the excuse "I voted player X just to see who would also vote him! Actually voting him is scummy! So lets lynch the person who agreed with me!" fly... How come Volkan is still alive? Why did this last an additional ... 20 odd pages... ???!?!?!?! Is there a logical answer later on? Did I miss something? What?

Now I'm not saying the excuse "I want to see how fast someone would bandwagon" or "I want to see how fast someone would switch votes" or something similar means anything bad, I'm saying the excuse Volkan used in this post seems like something a scum would say to throw a "Bandwagon" he started onto the shoulder's of someone else... It seems like either a frame up, or a cover up...

Also a bit more of that Shaft.ed is town stuff from Volkan... still not anything plausible, but seeing a pattern over and over is something I like to run with...

Last Issue:

Getting tired.. one last thing I would like cleared up...

Post 601,

Yes, I knew what you meant. I don't think he should kill even if he is the vig.

now take post:

...grr.....ahhh.....GAW... finally... Took me a while to find again...

Post: 512

And: If you guys want me to, I could just not kill someone tonight (but only if we misslynch, otherwise there's no reason for me not to)

No; you should kill...just be careful.

... Now... granted... its an 80 post difference... and shafted does make a good case against a vig night kill... It's just that seeing as how I seem to have other cases against him, I feel it best to get answers to any thing I find, and such an obvious contradiction deserves an answer...

Again this proves nothing... But I still think I should get it answered BEFORE I continue reading... Otherwise I may begin limiting my search to Volkan and his actions... which, as previously stated, would mean I come into the game as a disadvantage to the rest of the town...

Also, just a note before I log...

Why do you guys keep doing the 6-3-1, and IF vig blank, if not vig blank, if mafia blank, etc... OVER AND OVER AND OVER... *hour*... AND OVER... I get that knowing odds can help, and knowing all outcomes means we can make better choices, but come on... IF you keep ONLY doing that you don't actually DO anything... and then you find yourself on page 43 with over 1000 posts and no closer to a lynch then when you started...

Ok I will continue my read up again tomorrow... Man I didn't think it would take me so long... *hangs head*

[Korlash]

Cool... Glad I can cross all that off my list... Well back to reading...

And... that was probably the most weird and suspicious thing I have ever read... wait.. don;t think about it.. catch up first.. right...

[Korlash]

Well... I actually wasn't going to read anything right now.. I have all weekend off so tonight/tomorrow morning is all about this game! *Raises flag*

But... I have time.. so into Oman's brain I go!

It smells in here... >.>

Ok role fishing... I see he says that rolefishing is in a sense bad... so far so good... oh... Ok... Well... Being as how I HAVE to look at it as if I said it...

"Well, if he can prove himself, then we let him live. He proves himself to us N1 and we know for sure that he is said powerrole."

seems oddly worded to me for some reason... but I think it means "Come day two, if he has done his job (Whatever it was) And can prove it tomorrow then he lives.)

I don't see why anyone would say that... But, because of the wording, thats all I can think it means...

"No, I don't buy that. Info helps town, no matter what. It might help the mafia to some degree, but most of the time, the town will benefit."

I would have to defend his statement by saying that either A) The info he is talking about is not (Generally) about power roles or B) He is talking about an already claimed role and thus the more info the more likely the town will believe it. I mean once you claim, your pretty much on the mafia hot spot, so your best choice is to prove to the doc you are who you say you are and thus can survive the night... Unless your the doc and then... yeah... night night...

As for "Not feeling" um... that is exactly the type of little tiny worthless info

I

would use to attack someone... So the only way I know how to defend against it is by saying it is worthless/meaningless, everyone uses words, blah blah blah...

If I had to actually think about it... I would say that it could be Oman doing the whole "Skim and paraphrase thing" But that isn't as strong as if I were to say Oman posted first and it was Dybeck who rephrased it... It could be chalked up to the fact that Oman had just read up to that point and the wording was stuck in his head... or something... I don't know...

Next, the Ryan issue... Personally I played a game with him before where he more or less didn't defend himself... although I was one of the mafia that killed him so it might have just been me being awesome! Although, in this instance, Oman does seem to have been confused at what he had said. I agree, Ryan said "Instead of not scum hunting, why don't you do some scum hunting!" and Oman must have misunderstood him.

On a side note: what is the exact meaning of Ad Hominem? I think I tried to look it up in the Wiki once and either didn't find it or have forgot it... I know it means something along the lines of flaming or a personal attack... I just want to know the limitations, and bordering lines to it... also exact definition ><'

And now we get to the point where I reveal... when I began to read this thread I had convinced myself Oman most likely to get my vote when I finished.. and wouldn't you know... I get the PM and bam... I am Oman... great... I agree with you, he has got to be paranoid or something... Cause I personally see no reason he played the way he did... but I will try to create him an excuse.. here we go...

um...

He was stupid?

...

Seriously, two things here. A) He could still be confused about Ryans original statement and thus he sees it as Ryan trying to "lie" about what he said. and B) I personally know for a fact the best way to piss Ryan off into making mistakes is to mess with him... so If I honestly believed him to be mafia I would do anything to get him under pressure... Granted I did not see him as mafia and I do not agree with Oman's actions... just something to think about....

So theres my look into Oman's brain.... I would not be surprised if none of this convinces you about anything, and I would not be against votes based on Oman's actions, but I will right now tell you I am town, and logically, with three vanilla's down... I mean... I think my avy says it all... >.> <.<

what?

I didn't say anything... stop looking at me...

Promise to finish my read ASAP and get into the game as fast as I can... Especially seeing as how the deadline is drawing near...

Disclaimer: Oman takes no credit for the above excuses posted in the preceding. It is the sole right and property of Crap-Logic Korlash and due to his inability to logically get his point across should be ignored. Any advice given by the above named source should be ignored. posts by the above named are illegal in Maine, Wisconsin, Georgia, Europe, and half of the Indian Ocean. If you witness any posts of this nature or know of someone who has you are strongly advised to lock yourself in your room with nothing but a can of Redbull and a bag of Doritos and call your local authorities and tell them "Someone stole my toilet and I have nothing to go on..."

[Korlash]

Oops... Ok well I had completely forgotten that the new rule twelve also included no

SMALL

text I thought it only had no invisible... so:

Disclaimer: Oman takes no credit for the above excuses posted in the preceding. It is the sole right and property of Crap-Logic Korlash and due to his inability to logically get his point across should be ignored. Any advice given by the above named source should be ignored. posts by the above named are illegal in Maine, Wisconsin, Georgia, Europe, and half of the Indian Ocean. If you witness any posts of this nature or know of someone who has you are strongly advised to lock yourself in your room with nothing but a can of Redbull and a bag of Doritos and call your local authorities and tell them "Someone stole my toilet and I have nothing to go on..."

sorry... I need to remember to not take my jokes so far as to actually break rules... Can I just get a warning this time or something? No need to kill me for this right... All fixed now... *hides under bed*

[Korlash]

Actually I said " I didn't say anything... stop looking at me... "

And be careful... I don't think now is a good time to start any sort of role "fishing" now, be it to fish my role, warn me not to say it, or even to try and confuse the mafia by throwing them off the scent... I claimed town, then said I was hungry for ice cream... Leave it at that until I get caught up... Unless your trying to start a WIFOM situation here that only forces me to abandon my reading and instead put all effort into the here and now...

And define Ellipsises... do you mean Parenthesis? Cause if not I have no idea what your talking about... heck even now I still don't...

[Korlash]

Like I care what you think... of how I post...

look, Me claiming town is pretty much the only defense I have for Oman's bad playing, so thats what I did......................................

And claiming vanilla is THE BEST THING i can do as town,

A) I don't have to give up my actual role. (Provided I have one)

B) It means I am less likely to be night killed by the vig and/or mafia, meaning if I actually do have a role it is not in jeopardy.

and C) It is a very hard thing for anyone, town or mafia, to disprove.

And whether you like it or not, you bringing up how me claiming vanilla is bad for town is the first step to make me either actually claim, or admit to having a power role. Take the whole Dr. BS (laughs) thing. He said something, people jumped on it, forcing him to say he doesn't actually claim something, which is then used against him later.

If you were actually protown there vollkan you shouldn't be so worried about someone claiming vanilla. We are down 3 vanilla already, thus, theoretically, every single one of us town left could have a power role. (Provided the mafia also got one) Stop trying to kill off a viable defense for an unknown power role.

Now where was I...

Hmm...

Can't remember...

Look... Dots...

d..o..t..s.. O.o

And just so you know, I'm surprised out of you three Orig is the smartest... really I am... honestly... really... truly... I... am... Although he still is dumb as a rock isn't he... Man... You guys are worse then Streeflo at getting jokes

And if it bothers you guys THAT much I will agree to stop with my trademark dots if you never do another number crunching again. Is it worth it to you? Think carefully here... (Just to piss you off <3)

[Korlash]

Actually I was replacing a guy that all game seemed to me the best choice for a lynch. And, seeing as how Gemelli asked me to try and explain Oman's actions I did. But I cannot speak for him, so I ended it with I am town as my last and only real "explanation" (I sometimes replace this word with defense just so you know Vollkan. I only say this cause I know the next time I do your going to ram it down my throat three or four times that its 'not a viable defense! blah blah blah')

And why would you want me to stop with the dots? They should in no way hinder the game, pressure you, danger town in anyway, make my posts that much more messy. I mean its TWO EXTRA DOTS FOR ****'s sake... <see! In fact it should make it easier to read by putting additional space between sentences allowing your eyes and brain to better take it all in. But to each his own. I told you I am willing to stop if you do, and I doubt it will be to long before you do another number crunch and then its back to dotdotdot every two sentences. Can't wait!

And I shouldn't have to claim anything in the future. (Provided I am just an ordinary towny)

Orig who says I'm lying? Who says I'm telling the truth. I'm not dumb enough to claim ANYTHING other then simple town before I read every post my predecessor made.

And, just because I would rather post then read I will illustrate a few simple scenarios for you.

SCENARIO ONE:

First, I just made an argument about Vollkan's "AlyG blah blah Oman blah blah scum would act blah blah" Excuse he made. Seeing as how his point was against Oman (Me) I feel that me, trying out what he calls a "strategy" against him, would make sense in me understanding the way it worked and if there was any viable claim in its use. If this is the case, I think I would have gotten the exact response I would have wanted, which is Vollkan to respond to it. Now I find this scenario hard to believe, or do I? Who knows. I won't say one way or another.

Main points I expect Vollkan to come back at me over this:

1) "It's nothing like what I did!"
2) "I never called it a strategy, I said 'Technique'! stop putting words in my mouth scum!"
3) "How would you know I would be the one to respond? Your just trying to make an excuse!"
4) "My responce is not scummy! It is blah blah not protown blah blah what you did... etc!"

Prerecorded response to each of these:

1) I could argue similarities and you could argue differences all day, big point, if you just throw this scenario out the window without thinking it over for a second, you prove (TO ME!) that what you did was BS and thus I will not just simply forget about what you did to Oman (Me) and I will not drop my case against you.

2) I swap similar words sometimes, sue me. Defense and excuse can

sometimes

(Key word) mean the same thing. I also think technique and strategy are similar enough to be used to replace each other once. I am not trying to put words in your mouth (even though I am trying to predict the future ^^)

3) How did you know Oman was going to respond? Perhaps it was a trap to catch anyone and you just fell into it. *shrugs*

4) I have not said my views on your actual response (in this post at least) thus I do not claim it to be scummy or pro town.

SCENARIO TWO:

Perhaps, I (as town, call me newb if you want. call me stupid, call me a free thinker, call me on my cell phone) did not think that claiming town was a bad thing. I mean, don't we all claim town, without even saying it? Who would not say they were town? "I'm not town! Don't lynch me!" probably won't fly. Also, Note that I did see claiming vanilla as a not so good thing, thus I did not come right out and say it. I hinted at it, I also hinted at the same time to being a power role, yet you conveniently left that part out. So, all in all, all I did was tell you guys I am town so that you might go easy on me over what Oman did pre-me.

Main points I expect Vollkan to come back at me over this:

1) "How can you not see that claiming vanilla is a bad thing?"
2) "If you thought claiming vanilla was not a good thing why did you do it?"
3) "Where did you claim power role?"
4) "Why even claim anything? You were not in danger/under pressure!"

Prerecorded response to each of these:

1) well, while it may bring pressure towards me and a vote or two, no town would lynch someone for claiming vanilla townie. So by doing it you are mostly guaranteed to not be NKed AND not be lynched. So I think, coming in right now, not being lynched or NKed would benefit me so I can catch up.

2) I didn't do it. I only said "my avy says it all." Where in that sentence do you see the words "I, am, or vanilla townie"?

3) "...and logically, with three vanilla's down..." To me, this should set off red flags. Logically, three VTs down, more chance to be a power role! Does me not claiming a power role incriminate me as much as me not claiming Vanilla townie Vollkan? Should I just go ahead and claim Mafia and let you and your scum partners win? [/sarcasm]

4) I claimed town for two reasons. 1) I had just come from trying to defend/excuse Oman's stupidity. So I wanted to clarify that I was actually town. And 2) it opened up me "not claiming vanilla or power role" leaving me to agree with whatever Oman said he was. (Such as if on page 30 he said he was a vanilla townie I would not have contradicted that, while if he had said he was a power role, hinted he was, or actually claimed something, Doc/Cop/RB/Vig etc, I could continue that.)

And I know someone will bring it up so don't take that as me saying "I am mafia and I needed to know what lie Oman said!!!!"

Don't tell me a vanilla townie wouldn't hint at a power role so he had a chance of being the NK instead of the actual role. At the same time don't tell me a power role would not say vanilla if asked/forced to claim.

Another Scenario?

Perhaps I am just a village idiot as you called me, you moron, (I can take a few insults, but expect them back eventually. You don't make friends by name calling! Tsk tsk!) and made a simple newbie mistake!

No. I am fully confident what I did was in no way anti-town or pro-mafia. It may not be full blown BEST FOR TOWN, but it is a GOOD FOR ME in the end. And, while I care about the town, I am not reading 43 F***ing pages just to be F***ing NKed by the damn Vig.

Main points I expect Vollkan to come back at me over this:

1) "How is this GOOD FOR YOU?"
2) Why would you do anything that was not best for town?"
3) "So you are not afraid to be killed by the mafia?"
4) "How does this make you a sure win for not being lynched?"

Prerecorded response to each of these:

1) Its good on these points:
a) I can confirm whatever Oman said, b) I have officially claimed "Town!" If you tell me how this is bad(As in either a scum tell, or a surefire way to be lynched/NKed) for me I will vote myself. and c) I already told you how I THINK it makes it less likely I am killed.

2) Because, sometimes, it is a lot better to sacrifice the RB/Vig to protect someone else. Not to mention I am modest and think I am best for town being left alive.

3) No. I have no fear that you will kill me tonight Vollkan. I think you would much rather kill off Orig. and if not that, I guarantee you would kill off Shaft.ed just in case the VIg kills one of your partners You look completely innocent tomorrow. Killing me tonight would stop me being a good candidate for a lynch tomorrow.

4) You seem to think its suspicious yet no vote. Orig agrees yet no vote. Elias didn't even comment on it so no vote. See a pattern? This one little detail did not net me a single vote. Thus, no pressure, no fear of a lynch, and above all some active discussion so you all get to know me. I hate unknowns and, even with all of Oman's comments, I am still somewhat unknown to you guys as I play differently, and do not have all the answers he did.

So there you have it... Three very likely scenarios. I left off two that I thought of that involved me being mafia simply because I am not mafia so I personally do not see them as being possible. You are more then welcome to illustrate them yourself and I will post-record a response to it later.

Oh and before you ask, this post was not because I felt pressured. It was all in responce to:

Why bring it up at all? You were in absolutely zero pressure.

I feel I have fully answered his question, Sorta. And, Provided Vollkan does not come at me again with another lame(To me at least) reason/attack against me I will not be posting until I have fully caught up! YAY!

Till then, peace!

[Korlash]

Two things:

1. It does not clarify that you are town in any way shape or form. All you have done is say "I am town".

If it means nothing why did you make such a big deal about it in the first place? Wouldn't it have just been better to ignore it and move on?

So you think I am mafia? With who?

You, Orig, and either Shaft.ed or dybeck. still deciding on the third... Shaft.ed seems to have the links, but Dybeck has the distancing factor working with his obvious scumminess. hmmm, I would rather Lynch the most likely mafia, Orig, today, take you out tomorrow, and hope either shaft.ed or Dybeck are Nked or gain new evidence for/against them by day four.

Note that this may change when I have fully finished reading.

On a side note I enjoyed that equation, I needed the laugh!

[Korlash]

Yeah. I think...

I guess your not much of a joke person there Vollkan. This could be damaging to me later on seeing as half the stuff I say are jokes.

Also whats FTR? And while I'm at it.. is HoS the same as FoS?

[Korlash]

Really. Seems odd to me to have so many XoSs and only one actual Vote! shouldn't there be like a stronger version of vote?

(Psst... that was a joke BTW!)

[Korlash]

Wow... Thats pretty odd.

I won't try and defend myself, your claims are justified. Just try putting yourself in my position. In the 30 odd pages I did read before posting that, Oman had been playing very shitty in my opinion. I have no idea what the hell he might have said. For all you know I could be the Doc and there might have been a false claim day two that Oman spoke up about. For all I know he may have let something slip about being a vanilla towny in a post that was overlooked. He may have even claimed to be the Vig at some point. I didn't mean to say he might have lied about his role, I meant to imply I didn't know if he had claimed yet, and if he didn't I don't want to claim it either. So I tried to be as vague as possible.

And for the last time I did not claim vanilla... I hinted at it and the fact that two of my top three suspects are hounding me on it seems to make me think I am on the right path.

[Korlash]

Ok first things first, the comment about lynching Orig has changed a bit since I posted it. The reason for which I originally thought it has changed, and I no longer think that way. (I already told you guys I have not been fully caught up yet)

That being said I think he is either the Vig or mafia and I won't say which i think is more likely.

Now to the good part.

*clears throat*

If you guys can find me one post where I said "I am claiming vanilla in this post 100% right here!!!" or something to that degree of claim then by golly you might be on to something. But unless you can do that, My theory of a Vollkan, Shaft.ed, Dybeck trio is embedded in my mind.

You guys quickly come off of Oman's leave by taking a false statement against me and attacking me with it over and over and over and over...

EBWOP: And I really enjoyed the part about NK'ing me or dybeck. Especially when we've discussed ad nauseum about how likely orig is to be NK'd today. Do you have any reason to belive me or dybeck are likely to be NK'd?

Hello? i thought you were smarter then that. My sentence clearly showed I was counting Orig as the lynch, thus there was no way in HELL he could have been NKed. And at that time I was assuming Vollkan was mafia and you two were town, killing you guys (The ones I consider his most ally like) would throw all suspicion off of him. So, to answer your question, no. Unless Orig is left alive I have no fear you or dybeck will be NKed because your my pick for scum.

And yeah, an hour of reading your guy's crap can change a lot thank you very much.

I have already answered as to why i never actually said it, it's not my fault you don't agree with me. It is your fault you keep ignoring the fact I never actually said it though...

And my statement about how claiming vanilla was best for me in no ways proves I claimed it. It does give you a reason why i hinted at it so strongly, so if you got the impression I claimed it then yay it worked! However I do not see townies pushing this hard on something like this, especially seeing as how your claim is false. So I would much rather ask you why you three think it's such a good idea to make up lies about me this late in the game?

And I am 100% sure the town (Not you three) will regret my death. But hey, I am willing to die today. When you guys see I'm town, one of you gets NKed from the Vig and we still have a good chance of winning. I just don't think my death is necessary when we could take one of you out today and be done with it tomorrow.

As for not having seen Oman claim anything THANK YOU! That would be so helpful if you save me the god **** trouble and just say stuff like that. I mean if I say something like "I am going to read 1100 posts to see if a guy ever said this!" all you guys have to do is say "nope he never said it" and we could move on... But nooo... you have to make up lies about me instead.

So in general, I hinted at vanilla, you guys said claiming vanilla was bad, I explained that I believed claiming vanilla would be good for me (Note didn't actually do it), and you guys continue your obvious lies! I admit, my "not claim" may have been unneeded. But I felt it was an easy way to sum up "Don't kill me because of Oman! I may be vanilla but I may also be a role!"

And as for "huge scumtell in itself. " can you blame me for wanting to live after reading all this shit? I mean I come in read 1000 posts and am then lynched... do you think I would ever replace in a game again? I don't... thats totally gay...

[Korlash]

Man... Am I the only one who sees this? This cannot be another towny twisting my words so much...

First,

Ok first things first, the comment about lynching Orig has changed a bit since I posted it. The reason for which I originally thought it has changed, and I no longer think that way. (I already told you guys I have not been fully caught up yet)

So, since you state originality is mafia if scum, please explain how lynching originality is an efficient use of the town's lynch today.

I TOLD YOU I HAVE CHANGED MY GOD **** OPINION ABOUT LYNCHING ORIG! Stop ignoring what I say and trying to attack me with arguments like that. I hope to God that when the other townies actually put in some new input they can see through your scheme here. And if you use the argument "i just wanted to judge your reaction" I might just quit like Oman did. I am reacting just like anyone would, by getting pissed at how badly your twisting my words.

As for this same thing you keep bringing up, I gave you my explanation of just hinting at it. If you really were a good townie you would have accepted that I either made a mistake or whatever you think claiming vanilla would be and let it go. But noooo, you have to ignore all my reasons and keep pushing that "I claimed without reason!" I had reason, explained it, I did not claim, explained it, and yet you ignore my explanations, scummy thing to do.

Vote: Shaft.ed

i never voted Vollkan because I felt it seemed to OMGUSish, not to mention i had not been fully set on you three being the scum. Now that I am I feel we get rid of you, hope Orig is smart enough to kill one of the actual Mafia, and lynch the last one tomorrow. But... Because I am pissed off, and thus biased, I am willing to hear from a player I think is town on their opinion of your actions, and my reactions. I would hate to either be wrong/be lynched today with my vote based (even jsut a little) on my feelings toward the player I am voting.

*tries to calm down*

[Korlash]

because I did not claim. I tried to hide the fact I was in fact a power role and you three seem bent on trying to "weed out" weather I really an vanilla or not. Have fun with that. I could care less if I die tonight or not, we already have the three mafia so this game should be a town win.

[Korlash]

Wow.. you voted me twice in one post... nice...

And I have pointed out where your guy's arguments about me are false, and where you are throwing out (I guess they are not so much lies as they are misinterpretations you will not accept my reasons for) those things that I no longer feel the need or have the energy to do it again. If the real town cannot see through your facade then we have no hope.

And wooooo... yet again I did not-"claim" my feelings on Orig and so you twist my words into saying "I am unconvinced if Orig is vig or mafia!" *sigh* if your not going to actually read a full sentence I type just tell me now and I will periodically leave words out of so that you wont have to read and it will make better to you. < that was a joke.. I know you cannot fathom them so I feel the need to point that out.

Going through the lists of reasons why your vote against me is bogus:

Your first vote was placed on me after you claimed "I was undecided on how I feel about orig" Because of that I assume you placed the vote because that piece of evidence threw me into vote range. So I will disprove that bit and assume it should throw me back into "Not so much vote range"

That being said I think he is either the Vig or mafia and

I won't say which i think is more likely.

You kinda skipped the fact I hinted here that I felt one of them more likely to be then the other. Care to take a guess on which side I was leaning? No? i felt not. Wouldn't want you to see how dumb you are. Moving on...

False claims: (This list is probably incomplete because I am tired... but here we go.. in no specific order also...)

Korlash himself contradicts this because he himself is unconvinced as to whether Orig is vig or mafia.

So, since you state originality is mafia if scum, please explain how lynching originality is an efficient use of the town's lynch today.

Your avatar says "100% vanilla". 'Nuff said.

But Korlash's subsequent comments have made it clear that he was trying to claim vanilla:

So you're in a position where you suspect Oman may have claimed something that is not your role. Is it me or does the most logical conclusion stemming from this statement seem to be that you are mafia?

Why on earth did you just claim vanilla?!

Korlash, it is not role-fishing for me to tell you not to claim vanilla. Any player with a grain of sense would do exactly the same thing.

You claimed vanilla. I don't care if it is genuine or not and I have no intention of pursuing any further, but you should know that claiming vanilla when you are not under pressure of lynch is incredibly anti-town.

And if you don't have a role it means that the scum are more likely to hit a power role.

a) If you are vanilla, it means that the scum know that you are safe not to NK and have a higher likelihood of hitting a power role.
b) If you are a power role, it draws attention onto yourself which can result in suspicion which can result in forced claim, which just flags you to the scum.

Why bring it up at all? You were in absolutely zero pressure.

No. I knew precisely what you meant. My point is that it is no defence/explanation/excuse/justification/whatever word you want to use to simply claim vanilla and then suggest we all move on.

It is inherently anti-town when done prematurely (as yours was).

Claiming a power role would be idiotic, but it would not be incriminating. I would be pissed as all hell if you did that, because that can only help the scum, but it would not incriminate you.

The fact remains that you had no reason to claim vanilla.

Surely you realise that your priority should be helping the town, not ensuring your own survival.

b) It is bad for town if you are telling the truth about being vanilla because:
I) Scum will NK elsewhere and will likely hit a powerrole
II) You may have now drawn suspicion onto yourself and not onto scum

2) I would prefer to keep a RB/Vig over a modest vanilla you any day.

Those are my biggest issue ATM... Each one has a small part, or a large part, or the whole thing that I disagree with. Please do not point out which of these is obviously not false, or try and put words into my mouth here. If you want to know why i disagree with a specific one ask, and then I will explain. Then, you will be able to point out where I may be mistaken, and where My argument may have a flaw in it.

I also want to point out two more pieces here and explain now:

I never tried to weed out whether or not you're a powerrole.

This was actually my biggest issue over half of the time we have been arguing, yet I never remembered to bring it up. and I feel like saying it now won't help my case, but it may explain why I have been so adamant in my defense/attack.

I am town, It means nothing to you, it proves nothing, but to me it means I am 100% sure I am town. So, when I "hint," or even 'semi-claim" if you want, at any role (Mafia, vanilla, power role) the mafia can in no way know what I am talking about. So, when a person or persons push me up against the wall saying my claim hurt the town, it made me feel like those people were trying to either get me to admit I had a role, or to further admit I was vanilla. If the mafia knew either of these then of course your arguments made sense. If they were sure I was vanilla they would know who to hit for a cop/doc likeliness. So I found it scummy you guys kept pushing my "claim" no matter how many times I tried to defend myself/ say I did not claim. Thus I called it role fishing earlier and just recently said you were trying to weed me out. Whether or not this was your intention you cannot deny that the more we talked about it the more likelihood that I actually claimed and thus gave the mafia info. As of right now I am still pretty much an unknown and thus still a gamble for a NK. Could be good, could be bad. keep pushing and I know it will be bad.

Secondly:

it's distracting from scum hunting.

You have hurt us by distracting from scum hunting.

I feel I have been scum hunting the whole time. And I also think I may have found three scum. So, while you seem to want to make it very clear I am the one keeping us from scum hunting, You yourself could very much go on and question others and me at the same time. I mean I cannot be held responsible the others are not posting. I find it odd Originality and Elias and AllyG and Lucienne and Gemelli are not actively participating in this. So it is not totally my fault no "scum hunting" is being done aside from what I am doing. Perhaps if you focused more on them and the same on me (or even less... But you don't have too) some additional hunting would get done.

Theres a little bit of a summary of my thoughts. All put together. I should in fact go back and highlight my own too, but I feel some of what I said no longer applies (Due to reread) plus I hate incriminating myself..so, ehh... you guys can if you want.

[Korlash]

Wow that was totally great... good job in not telling me which ones are not false and where I was wrong. Thanks for not putting words in my mouth. Real brilliant.

Oh and a numbers crunching nice...

Well I don;t have the time to point out the follies or my opinions right now, i will after work. until then do try and not be an asshole... thanks...

[Korlash]

Ok, now that I finally have some time to sit down...

First things first,

What bothers me about this post, though, is that you seem unwilling to discuss vollkan/shaft.ed's basic premise, which is that a premature vanilla hint or claim is bad for the town.

I am pretty sure I told you guys that at the time I posted my "claim" I did not see it as being bad for town. I personally do not see how a vanilla claim should bring suspicion on me (at least I didn't then, I do now.) So when people began to say that I was being bad for town I took it as if they were using a BS case against me. After the 2 or so pages of talk I see their point, and so I feel no more need to discuss it. I was wrong to say it and now that I know I will be more careful in future games. And because I know I was wrong discussing it only puts me more and more into scum zone.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have limited access on weekends (see my sig). The fact that this weekend ran three days was unplanned. Sorry about that.

And I am ok with that. I just don't like people to say it's my fault no scum hunting is being done when I feel I am doing my part, yet no one else seems to be. Again, I am a person without as much background knowledge you guys have s everything that just happened was my first real read at Shaft.ed and Vollkan, which is why I think of myself actively scum hunting.

@ Dybeck: Do you plan on ever posting anything of substance or are you just hoping everyone will forget about whatever was going on before I came here? I can understand your vote on me, but I would like some reason as to why.

@ Lucienne: I honestly cannot rememeber the last time you posted... well... anything at all. With the deadline coming up I would hope you could make time, but I a not fully aware of your circumstances so I could be sounding like an Ass right now. I would just appreciate some input so I am not just going in circles with the same two guys all the time.

This sets off red flags for me. Pro-town players should be willing to sacrifice themselves if doing so advances the town's win condition. Granted, with three town players down, ANY town death is a bad thing, but I still see your tactics as motivated by self-interest.

Lets say, hypothetically, I am the Doc. How would my death in anyway help the town's win condition? I could save one of the two known roles we have seen today from a NK. My death today could actually spell town's defeat. (Sorta. Depends on the Vig here.)

Now lets say I am the Cop. Being the cop I would of course be a valuble asset on day three. (Two people known. Provided they are still alive.) again, seeing as how there is no real chance of me being NKed from the mafia (Because two others are already claimed) how can my death today benefit town? (sure we will still have the Doc, but it's still kind bad for town.)

Now say I am a vanilla towny. If we lynch me, we lose a town and the mafia do not lose anyone, if I am NKed by vig we of course loose two townies tonight. and if I am NKed by mafia well... Then it is pretty much a sure thing every other towny has a role and so it could very well lead to a he said she said claim-a-thon tomorrow.

So in no way is my death going to help the town's win condition (Unless I am mafia. Which I am not, but it is th other possibility.)

You can also get in to the fact I could very well be the vig or tracker and have chosen not to speak up about it. But if that is the case then I wouldn't mind dying to disprove their claim. So I suppose you can almost safely say I am not one of those.

Personally, I don't buy the scumShaft.ed scenario, either. From what I've been able to find, your primary argument against him seems to be that Vollkan considers him likely pro-town.

My argument with him has very little to do with that. It stems from that small window of opportunity of a trio I saw before, but now it gets into the fact that he more or less said many of the things Vollkan said, which I thought were all non-sense. After working my ass off for the last two days strait I have had nothing to do but go over this game in my head a few times I can can see their side a bit more then I did before and I am starting to believe I did overreact to a lot. I was so paranoid everyone woudl come after me for what Oman did I was quick to get the fact I am not mafia out there. Now that I have come to terms with how bad that is I really don't know what to do. There are a few arguments I made I will defend, and a few of them I now fully disagree with myself about so eh...

I suppose the only real thing I can do is continue to try and clarify your thoughts and hope we someone get a break before the deadline.

I do not think either of them makes sense as a lynch candidate today; there are at least three players I find more suspicious than vollkan as of today.

I know me (Oman) is one of them but can I ask who the others are and why? Easier to do this then go back and try to read through it again.

First, you've just finished a reread of Oman's post history in response to my questions. Are you saying that you don't know what he's posted in this game?

I have yet to finish his history. In fact, things have been so busy on this end I have not had time to read back anyways at all. I do not even know the reason he quit. Did he stop posting or have an actual reason to leave?

And to answer your questions I basically just only looked at your post and made assumptions on what could have been.

As for the breadcrumb false role claim thing it's basically what just happened now. Perhaps at some point he just claimed vanilla for some reason. I would hate to claim my actual role if everyone already assumed I was vanilla. Which is why I wanted to be sure before I (in my mind) started to claim. And that is a big reason I felt so strongly on my "No claim" thing. I did not want to admit I had claimed vanilla in anyway until I was sure Oman had not done something else. Otherwise it brings up a full contradiction and thus a good scum attack on me. now that i more or less know he did not claim I am able to stop insisting my claim was not that.

Yes, I wanted to make everyone think I was vanilla. Like I said, I did not at the time see how this was harmful, so I thought it ok. I thought it would be a great way to not be NKed because two other power roles have been claimed already. I stick to my "selfish" reason, mostly because if I am a power role that reason is less likely to get me NKed and if I am a vanilla towny then... well Hopefully I have not read 35 pages for nothing ^^

Also a side note, this late in the game I feel any town death is going to cause us to be that closer to defeat so I can see how me not wanting to die is also a good pro-town thing. I won't push it because I agree every towny should be willing to die to win, but two more townies dead by tomorrow leave us little hope don't you think?

The other quotes from the list seem to boil down to semantics or subjective interpretation, and are not "true" or "false" in any meaningful way. I want the last 30 minutes of my life back

I am sorry about that. Each of those quotes I felt I needed to explain my thinking on, but I did not want to spend 8 hours doing so so I posted them to see which of them you guys wanted me to most explain. And instead of doing that you mostly just say they are all bad and leave it at that. I admit not all of them are "false" as I said, some of them just have a side thing I wanted to talk about. But as I said, after two days of hard labor and game mulling I no longer agree with half my thoughts and so Explaining what I thought then will do us no good.

Since this change in your view towards myself going from town likely to be NK'd to scum aligned with vollkan came before any of my posts following the vanilla incident, I have to assume that you found me scummy during your reread. Please provide the evidence that lead you towards this conclusion.

Yeah I was mostly taking my top suspect, Vollkan, and placing him in league with the most likely partner I found ( I think I illustrated that point a long time ago in my questions for Vollkan thing.) and my second choice and pushing them together as a trio. At the same time I was juggling the idea that Vollkan and two people I had not heard were the scum, and if so You and Dybeck (the ones I most suspected as his partners) would be a good NK choice to throw all heat off of him. I more or less disagree with this now as I see all my own flaws. I still admit you and Vollkan have a few things linking you, but no more then any player-to-player links you gain during a 45 page game. As for a Vollkan-Dybeck link, I admit the degree of distancing that would require is pretty unnecessary so I also find myself different minded on that one.

From personal experience, I know that Vollkan has a way of getting contradictions out of people, perhaps even if they didnt make them.

If this is true then I am slightly less inclined to think he is scum. If he has in fact been playing this way all game (I may not have noticed it on my read) then The fact he seemed to come at me like he did doesn't seem as scummy as it did earlier. I admit this right here is a good reason some of my suspicion on Vollkan has dropped (among other things) and so if what he said is false I woudl like someone to mention it. Or even say how true it is. It would save me a lot of reread time.

I addressed this with my numbers thing. His whole notion of sacrificing himself revolves around 100% certainty about shaft.ed, dybeck. Orig and myself, which is just ridiculous at the best of times. Isn't this immediately rendered dubious by the fact that he has even some uncertainty as to whether or not Orig is mafia?

I do not think it requires %100 certainty on all of you, seeing as how one of those four has a good chance of being mafia no matter how you look at it. It actually only requires a mafia vig kill. One mafia death gives us some leeway, and so losing a towny for a lynch will not be as bad. (Still bad, but not game losing)

And if you really want me to tell you my feeling's on Orig fine. I just did not feel it that important to go into. I will say I am leaning about %70 or so- %30 or so one way or the other, an overwhelming majority on one of them. And so I do not feel I am that uncertain as to what I feel about him. Just careful not to overlook a possibility.

Also I see you more or less said Elias was telling the truth so yay. That answers my question.

Also what is the exact definition of a soft claim? I don;t want to do any comment about it if I do not fully understand it.

@ AlyG: I have pretty much stopped that now. I admit I more or less claimed, and I feel I have fully answered as to my feelings about the subject.

Only two things I want to point out from Vollkan's big post on the last page.

Korlash, DON'T CLAIM DOC! Was that role-fishing?

No, under most circumstances that is in no way rolefishing. However, if I was someone who had jsut said "I feel like I need to role claim, what do you think?" And you say that. It makes me feel like your either trying to see if I just ) Do not claim at all or B) Actually say "well it's fine I am not the Doc then."

To me Rolefishing can be played a numerous amount of ways. Take this example (My claim that is) To me, it seems logical a mafia will attack my vanilla claim to see if it was a false claim (and I am a role) or if it was true (And thus they know not to attack me) This is why I was so defensive about having not claimed. So I would not have to slip up and then give the mafia more reason to think one way or the other. As you said before, just saying town proves nothing, as just saying your vanilla does not prove you to be, so in my paranoid mind I say you as trying to weed out my true role. Now that I understand how bad my actions were I am less inclined to think this and so I do apologize. But I think my reasonings at the time seemed ok.

]Huh?!?! I thought shaft.ed/dybeck/myself were the 3 obvious 100% scum. As such, why should you even care what we do?

That last sentence...it's just brilliant.

I think we've hooked one.

I already said that I felt Shaft.ed blaming me for any non-scum hunting going on was pretty harsh. No one person can stop scum hunting and so I said that to either A) Try and get to to scum hunt (Although I feel you guys have been scuming me this whole time and so I cannot see why Shaft.ed woudl say this.) and B) Further improve my attacks on Shaft.ed who, we all agree, is pretty much more or less pro-town looking. In fact, that statement, about me hindering scum hunting, is the only thing that remains in my mind about him after my "change of heart."

And how is that sentence just brilliant? (I take that as sarcasm) I think if you guy's want to do scum hunting you cannot blame me you aren't. I cannot stop you from making points at other players, I cannot force them to post back, and I sure as hell cannot see how all that shit we just went through cannot be called "scum hunting" in some form.

I want to comment on all those "false" quotes I listed and your comments on them but I have more or less said I have different views and I see no point in rehashing an old subject. If you want me too I will gladly explain why I felt them false but if not I am willing to leave it at I was overreacting on most of them.

Ok thats my up-to-date views post. I will have the entire thread read come 5-6 days before deadline. Hopefully the game will not get that far because I hate when a day dies because of a deadline and a towny is short lynched killed. Especially if it's me ><

Edit before post: I normally preview my stuff before posting, but today I just don't feel like rereading it. I apologize in advance for any misspellings, grammatical errors, or sentences that are unclear as I may or may not have fixed them in a preview. sorry for the inconvenience!

[Korlash]

You are a God mod...

sorry I meant good mod >.> <.<

... yeah... that is what I meant...

[Korlash]

Well It's nice that we can talk to each other now without all the bang heading... *looks at hole in desk* Very nice indeed...

Supposing, unbeknown to yourself, Oman had claimed cop on page 20. Your avatar-claim thing would then make you look odd and contradictory.

and that is why I also put that little tiny logical-powerrole hint. When I posted that, the contradictory point was just hovering on the tip of my mind, thus I had only a tiny bit of fear of it happening. I figured I would be able to finish reading without anything big happening. Apparently I was wrong and so I had to keep pushing I did not claim so I could catch up. In a sense that made me look a lot more scummy then a simple contradiction. (Even though its a big contradiction...)

Scum are always more likely to target claimed power roles over unclaimed townies, unless they are playing wifom or going anti-player. You did not improve your survival chances by claiming vanilla.

It was more for the vig actually. Because Oman was playing poorly I did not know if the Vig (Who you all say we shoudl keep alive, thus I am sure he will be here tonight) would target him for any past actions. So I claimed town in hopes he would not target me. (Even though a claim is not proof, I had hoped it would help.)

I wasn't so worried about the mafia, although I am always in fear of them having a power role in these big games, like tracker or RB or something. And they may find it useful to leave the Vig alive and go after a more useful role (I.e. Cop, doc, etc...) and thus would hit an unknown towny.

"Top suspect"? If you are now accepting my comments regarding the vanilla claim, then what is your case against me?

I meant my "top suspect then" not top suspect now. Simple misunderstanding ^^

I didn't even notice you had a title... wow... Cool I want one =D Maybe... Crap-logic Korlash, The impenetrable wall, Mr. Mundane.... The rock!

*skips the number part*

I still hope Dybeck says something more useful then "I am not the most likely lynch now yay!" (Summed up, he did not actually say that...)

Also I still want to know exactly how it was my fault the scum hunting was held up... Thats the only part of your guy's attacks on me I cannot see... Perhaps you can help me out there Vollkan...

[Korlash]

Basically the "vanilla incident" didn't need to happen and it was a distraction. And if you are town, it's drawn a lot of suspicion your way that didn't need to be there.

Actually, because I am a replacement I am more or less an unknown, so I think all the discussion involving me was very much needed. This way, come day 3, if I am still alive we all now have things to go on. Also, I gained a lot of knowledge about you guys (mostly Vollkan and Shaft.ed but some of Gem too.) So overall, while it is not good to put me in that much "danger" it is very much needed for me to "talk." So having some subject, my claim as it were, that involved me is, in my opinion, a good thing. Granted i did not have to go that far, and I didn't HAVE to actually make myself so suspicious (as I said I did not think it would go over like that ><) But i still feel, even if it does not look like we got anywhere, you all now have readings on me, and I now have first hand knowledge of you. This close to a deadline it may seem unhelpful, but I still appreciate it.

Orig has been ordered not to NK, punishable by his own lynching. He won't NK. Thus, I don't get why you would be concerned about Orig.

No offense but if someone "ordered" me to not do a night action it wouldn't automatically mean I won't do it. You are basically saying "If you NK we will automatically lose this game." Because you are saying you will lynch a towny tomorrow if he NKs and thus I think we lose. So if I were him I would not take you seriously. Also, If I have a strong suspicion of someone I would NK them as vig anyways. If I hit town, then we go to lynch or lose. But if I hit mafia then we have a chance. It's a gamble, but some people may see it as a good move. Plus I do not see Originality as the best person to put my trust in keeping his word. So yeah, I am afraid he is going to NK. And I will be afraid no matter what he says.

I'll summarise it: your "plan" would, at best, put us in LYLO and at it's VERY likely worst cause us to lose. It is horribly anti-town.

Well it's true lynching me would put us close to LYLO seeing as how two townies will die. But I have already told you I no longer think the same I did before. So I see no reason to defend my "plan" at all. Your right, my death would not benefit the town. Thus... My reason for wanting to live! =D (This is all more of a joke and I am not trying to defend my "selfish" acts here. But I do truly believe my plan to suck and thus will not defend it anymore.)

I can see your point then about the Scum hunting. Thanks that was eating away at my head like all day at work and I think I messed up three orders because of it... Huh... I really need to do more with my life...

Still, I stand by my reasoning. I may not like how the info we got makes me look, but I am glad I can now say I "know" some of you guys firsthand, and not just with back posts.

The downside is now I really have nothing to go on but my suspicions of Dybeck... ;_; so I am back where I started!

Also I forgot to do this last post so

Unvote:

><

[Korlash]

Korlash, I have a question: If, hypothetically, I was lynched today and came up town, who should Orig vig tonight?

Well the obvious answer would be me wouldn't it. Just based on all my bad attacks on you. But if your asking for my most likely scum, Dybeck is top right now(Not that he is anywhere near vote worthy yet, he is just top of a really small list)

I'm puzzled that you don't even consider a no kill.

I don't see the advantages of claiming either.

Really not liking the vollkan hate from Korlash either. It seems a bit OMGUS. Nor shaft.ed. Seriously, what HAVE they done that is remotely anti-town (in a large way)?

I already said my opinions about the Vig actions tonight. Point of the matter is the quote you used is not how I think anymore. Besides, the point I was making was only about whether we should or should not keep him alive and that had nothing to do with a kill or not kill action. It merely had to do with a "chance of hitting a mafia."

Also the Shaft.ed/Vollkan "hate" as you put it stemmed from a small bit of paranoia and a big misunderstanding I blew out of proportion. I have already commented on that too.

Why not an SK? I don't see at all why that's discluded.

It has always been my problem when it comes to a night killing role I tend to lean towards the town side.(especially when they claim Vig) I consider an SK in the "mafia" side of my quote. The only thing I didn't see then is if there is an SK then there is most likely no Vig and thus my quote is incomplete.

No. Oman existed.

Yes,

Oman

existed. But as Gem pointed out I cannot speak for him. You can say "Oman was scummy when he did this this and this! Answer why he did those!" All I can say is "Um... I have no idea..." and thus your stuck. So even though you have a lot to go on, you had nothing on me personally. I mean if I had acted %100 pro-town it wouldn't even matter how Oman had been playing because you would have no evidence against me. So I always think a replacement needs to get heard.

[Korlash]

Wait I thought Vollkan unvoted... Did he revote me? How did I miss that? o.O

[Korlash]

NKed by the vig? Hmmm... Dybeck. It's not much of a question. It's pretty much "who do you most suspect as mafia?" and I have already told you that.

But if your question was merely to prod me to see if I actually want someone NKed then the answer is yes. I feel if we have a Vig we need to use him. But that is just my opinion. I suppose it's a good thing I am not the vig here huh? lolz... >.> <.<

[Korlash]

Oh mod.. I hate to double post especially just for this.. but...

Korlash (1) - vollkan

It should be "Korlash (1)- Dybeck"... I think...

Thanks!

Also it is five to lynch yes? so I am not putting a L-1 vote here so

Vote: Dybeck

Please explain your vote on me with specific details, and stop just posting worthless stuff. I would appreciate some real posts out of you for a change. (At least while I have been playing. Maybe he used to post good stuff.)

[Korlash]

*is confused*

define "stream of consciousness", "divorce yourself from Oman's actions.", and "unique style of posting."

Also, I am in no way trying to tell Orig what to do. I am merely pointing out that there is absolutly no way you can stop him form a kill other then "Do not do it!" I mean take your senario:

We lynch town, Mafia NK's town, Orig kills town= 3 town dead. If you lynch Orig tomorrow it is game over. so obviously either you would rather lose then have a pretty good chance of killing a mafia, Or your a mafia trying to stop the vig from killing a mafia.

Now take We lynch town, Mafia NK town, Orig kills mafia. Would you lynch him for that? i mean he took out a mafia. I find it hard to believe you would sacrifice two more townies just because he did something protown.

Now we come to we lynch mafia, Mafia NKs town, Orig NK's mafia. We just turned the tables on the mafia. Would you waste day three killing a known towny when there is only one mafia left?

Ok, now is when I think it wise to point out I keep hearing you say Orig is likely to be NKed anyways... If I was going to be NKed I would want to tat least try and take out a scum... Threatening to lynch him in no way stops him if he is convinced he will be NKed...

Lastly, if we do lynch mafia, they Nk town, and Orig nks town. Then we are not totally in LYLO I think... maybe not... Point is, we would not want to waste our possibly last lynch killing a "known" towny right? So I do not see how threatening to lynch him for a Nk is suppose to keep him from NKing... And that is why I am considering the possibility he may NK someone.

And what I meant with my bolded sentence is that your claim to "lynch if he NKs" seems to me a very anti-town thing, if you actually plan to follow it up. I could definitely see that as a mafia way to prevent a nk from a vig. Then again I can also see it as a towny thing to say, I just do not see a towny actually letting 5 townies die this late in the game.


That is about all I can comment on until I fully understand all your... weird things...

Oh and before I forget, seeing as how you like numbers:

8 members alive tonight, 3 mafia (unless we lynch one of them today.) 2 already known town, so it comes down to a 3-3 chance of hitting a scum if you are the vig. pretty good odds in my book. Granted if we lynch maifa there is less reason to Nk. But I still find it odd you are so sure he wont Nk someone. I mean at least harbor the idea in your mind that he will choose to do his own thing and not listen to you. I'm not saying lynch him, but be ready for tomorrow to come and have 2 dead players is all.

[Korlash]

Why are you so concerned about not being the one to drop the L-1 vote? That indicates that you have concern about the ramifications of the lynch.

I do not feel the reasons I have given to be enough to put at L-1. If I wanted to do that I would at least want to name specific examples, quotes, reasons I am voting, etc. Right now I am merely trying to show him we have not forgotten him and he still needs to be active.

[Korlash]

No no i am not missing the fact that if he misses we lose, I am merely saying that he may think it worth the risk and thus we cannot automatically assume he will not NK. I agree, that the Vig Nk is a big risk, and I can see exactly why we as town do not want it. (Again I state my personal views of use it or lose it on the vig note. My personal opinon is if we lynch a towny, no kill, if we lynch a mafia, kill!!!! *angry eyes!* but my personal feelings should take a side step for what is in towns best interest so I suppose I will agree with you and take a stand against a Vig kill. I said this only to help explain my obvious contradiction before when I said I would like the vig to kill, and then here I say I will stand against that. This game is special when it comes to my specific thinking and thus my thinking has to change for it... Perhpas that is not the best way to explain it... oh well I am tired...)

Also, I think it odd after my last statement you would just post a L-1 vote on dybeck without any stated reasons. Why do you feel Dybeck is worth a L-1 vote? And why did you bold "see something"?

[Korlash]

Dude... I can see where your going with that... But it's a little one sided... You can't predict how I will play. No matter how many games you have been in, no matter how much you have played this game, there is no way you can chalk up how others play this game.

To be honest with you the fact that it was your vote to put him at L-1 i kinda figured it would only be on him like an hour at the most. You post even more then I do, and you come up with some pretty iffy "traps" in my opinion. Now, if you had provided any sorta viable reasoning for your vote on him I would have unvoted. I wouldn't have gave you a FoS or anything, but I wouldn't keep my vote on someone that close to a lynch without my own reasons.

In closing I think your trap needs a bit of work. I can see the flaws in it as it can just as easily catch both the type of person you were looking for and the type you weren't.

besides there is no way anyone would have hammered him after that. I mean vote dybeck, vote dybeck, hammer dybeck just screams scum in my opinion. And no one is that stupid. So while you may think this trap of yours worked, (which is a sense it did, yet it still feels kinda lacking) I can hardly say it implies what your saying it does.

[Korlash]

First off I forgot to do it this morning,

Unvote:

I am finding it hard to believe his claim, but I am not going to leave my vote on the "cop" without a reason...

I would argue, though, that townies would react with a significant degree of alarm to someone randomly throwing a L-1 vote.
...
Interesting. You figured I would not do something anti-town.

and I (sorta) did. I questioned as to why you did it. not as much alarmed as shocked. I couldn't believe you had suddenly turned stupid on us. Glad to see that's not the case. ^^'

And yes, I did not think you would do something as anti-town as that. You play too damn carefully.

You were happy to keep your vote on him when I did not explain myself, but you say you would not do so if I did explain myself.

The obvious difference is that if I explained myself I would look more serious, however, I don't see why that difference should alter your own actions. There is still as much chance of someone hammering if I am serious as if I am doing it for other reasons.

More importantly, you asked me for my reasons that I felt dybeck was worth a L-1 vote. In other words, at the time you thought my vote was a serious one, which goes entirely against what you are saying now.

I put my vote on him in order to have him clear something up, I didn't want to remove my vote until he cleared that up. So yes I was ok with leaving it on when you put him at L-1, I saw no quick hammer coming and I felt the extra pressure would be beneficial to my cause. Apparently it was too much... >.> <.<

however, if you had made your vote appear to be more then you did, such as had a logical reason, evidence, points, attacks, etc... I would have felt more likely that another player would agree and maybe hammer. Especially if they didn't know it was at L-1 (i have seen that happen before... First hand...) So by making your vote appear to be no more then a random pressure thing I felt no danger on Dybeck.

And thus I asked you for reasons, if you had some then it changed that in my mind. and depending on what reasons you had it may have altered my thoughts.

Oh for sure, a hammerer would be obv scum. I don't see why this is relevant here though. You are talking about things happening quickly and ignoring a more prolonged hammer.

I was not ignoring the more prolonged hammer, that was exactly why I left my vote on him. It would do no harm, and still get my question answered... (WHICH STILL ISN'T! AHHHHHHH!!!!!!)

I have to say I'm very surprised that you seem so certain that Orig is a vig. You're assumption is quite obvious throughout this post.
I also have a problem with the "listen to you." This may be nit-picky, but in this back and forth you make it seem as though vollkan is somehow single-handedly controlling orig's NK actions. In fact, prior vollkan was lobbying the hardest to maintain orig's possibility of NK'ing. I don't want to speak for the town, but it's quite obvious we have all chosen to prevent an extra NK tonight.

I meant "you" as a more general term in that quote. So i could seem to be talking first person to each reader. It was like saying "When you climb mountains, you have to wear shoes." The "you" is not a specific person.

Also, if it is still unclear, I have joined you all in the "Against a NK" thing. So, I will not be lobbying for the Vig to kill anymore.

as for me... I half hoped the claims would counter each other but they don't... Well other then the cop counters vig is all...

We have "vig" killing player X, Tracker saw that. So it could be mafia or vig. Then Cop says he is mafia. So both other claims "kinda" point to mafia/sk. I wouldn't base this on my attack but it would make sense.

And with he possibility of Miller Vig killed we know one of them to be lying... so... *sigh* this means i have to reread...

[Korlash]

Right, I would hate to make you mad

... I was being serious there....
>.>
<.<

Anyways, I mainly want to know the reason he investigated Orig personally. It seems a bit... Coincidental in my opinion.

Also, I am not one to talk about claiming without pressure here, but I think it was an honest mistake about the L-1/claim thing... Although it was a 2 hour difference... He may have just missed the unvote... Eh... I am just not ready to rule anything out.

[Korlash]

There is not really a "townie way to act".

Then... why even bring it up? this seems like more of that "I know exactly how you should be playing and your not doing it right!" crap you seem to enjoy.

I should have worded it more clearly, but I think you see what I meant.

you meant he did something either a town or mafia might have done in the same situation. Good... that helps us out a lot. Thanks for that. Any more useful observations you might want to add here? The sky is blue perhaps. The sun is hot? This is a sentence?

I really hate this point of the game. We argue over and over about who may or may not be telling the truth. Going on and on and on until we hit that deadline. *sighs* I guess it's time for that reread huh... Fine... Page... 2...

I really hate having to be so cryptic.

Well that just makes me want to pass out... I'll be up all night trying to make heads or tails out of that... Lets see... take the first letter of each word... take the next letter in the alphabet... rearrange according to number of letters separating each vowel.... Combine with the third and fourth word in every line... and... you get...

"Cake is yummy!"

hmm... Thats great advice... i think I will have some cake...

seriously I will get back to you after I reread some of Origs/dybecks posts...

[Korlash]

Yes; why ever would we need to debate who is more likely to be lying? That's just pointless

I meant that all of our remaining time will boil down to a he said he said thing about who could "possibly" be lying and thus come deadline it will basically come down to each towny picking a side and crossing their fingers... I guess I did word it pretty vague didn't I... My bad...

Also what is wrong with being funny? Huh does it get you scared? worried i will crack your puzzle? Your crip-ti-quote? Huh? Out with it? It's a word scramble isn't it! I will find and circle all the words in your last post!!!! HA HA! Theres a you... and a funny... and a cake... man I rock at this game! =D

On a serious note... Shouldn't Dybeck I don't know... Vote Orig? Am I just seeing this wrong because his vote is on me, or does it seem weird to you guys too?

[Korlash]

Based on Orig's behaviour it seems most likely he is the SK, however there is still room to doubt dybeck's investigation. We know one of them is lying. Who do you want to lynch at this point?

when I first read that my answer was Dybeck because he had not explained his things/ voted for Orig. Now that he has I find my most likely lynch to be Lucienne. I mean all she has done for the past... i don't know how long is come in with a two-three sentence something and not give us anything to go on. I think Elias is second in that regards.

As you and Orig (just recently) pointed out, you all had a long conversation about how lynching Orig is bad. So I am basing a lot of my thinking on that. Although I am not sure if a Guilty investigation will change anything.

So thats my take... Have I failed yet another one of your traps? Do I really care? Does anyone know all the answers?

[Korlash]

Sorry... >< I wasn't even thinking...

[Korlash]

I find it kinda odd you would FoS Gem for doing something and then FoS me for doing the exact opposite... Thats about all the input I have ATM... Have to go do some things tonight... I should check back in a bit later with a more detailed post...

[Korlash]

Fence sitting? How is that? All I did was ask if a guilty investigation in anyway effected your numbers. I can not fathom that you would have already added that into one of your giant numerical posts. From your response I take that as a no and thus I sit with my original answer of Lucienne.

You need to stop over reacting to every thing i say when most of it can be cleared up with a simple yes or no response man... I mean I can see why you think I am very suspicious, but not EVERYTHING i say is meant to be scummy or is trying to frame you in anyway. Stop being so paranoid.

[Korlash]

In fact, if you had omitted that last sentence I would actually be quite pleased with you.

great, from now on when I am unsure of something I will not even mention it and blindly continue on. As long as you are pleased I could care less if I am clear on the issues! [/sarcasm]

So what...only SOME of what you say is scummy and attempting to frame me?

Yes!
>.> <.<

[Korlash]

The sentence "Not everything I say is _____" is more of a cliche thing to say to someone who keeps taking everything thing you say to mean as something specific. Such as if you go to church and someone tries to equate everything you say to the bible you can say to them "Not everything I say is about the bible" or if you are a fisher and someone tries to link your words to fishing terms or something...

It just seems to me you take every single thing I say and automatically assume the Scum way of thinking about it. Such as instead of seeing a towny asking for clarification, you see a scum trying to frame you. Or instead of a joke you may see a big anti-town move. I don't think it is wrong to question potential scum moves but to automatically assume everything a person says is scum makes it hard for them to prove/explain they are town.

I hope that answers your question...

[Korlash]

Damnit I forgot... If Orig is so sure Dybeck is lying I still find it odd he would Switch his vote. It makes me feel he is not set on the fact Dybeck is lying and is more interested in taking the pressure off of himself and forcing it on to another. I am not saying we lynch him here, but I find it odd that someone who is %100 certain someone is fake-claiming cop would take their vote off of that person.

[Korlash]

... *bangheaddesk*

Also what other point besides "Lurking'/little content" and "Wanting to lynch Orig" do you guys have against Lucienne? I too feel the need for her to talk more but the same can be said about Elias sometimes.

this is just so I do not have to go back and reread form the start of day two. A simple explanations of any past scummyness/ reasons to vote would just be nice to catch me up! Thanks in advance!!!

[Korlash]

Cool... see my only problem with her has been that I have not seen her Post anything useful lately. So I wasn't sure if you guys had seen something earlier that i should be aware of.

[Korlash]

Well he did semi-claim it with the vig thing... That could be him trying to sugar coat being the sk... Why would he claim Vig if he knew the actual Vig/Sk was out there?

Other then that I have no opinion on Dybeck's claim. Yet... that I want to voice. I'm more interested in Lucienne and Elias then him and Orig. At least for now.

Lucienne has been against Oman rather strongly,

are you trying to use this as evidence of distancing, reasons why we are probably not partners, or just stating the facts? Don't want to jump to conclusions right now you know. (a... jump to conclusions mat... *laughs*)

Also, just because I laughed...

:good posting:

seriously? Come on was that a joke or do you just like to be maddeningly unhelpful? Seriously post more... >.> <.<

[Korlash]

You're doing my cryptic thing, I see. The problem here, though, is that I cannot really see any reason why your opinion on dybeck's claim is something which has an advantage being kept under wraps.

No offense but you always seem to attack whatever I say. So I do not want to worry about my answer making you go into some unknown trap/attack on me before I clear up what I am trying to first.. such as additional posts form Elias and Lucienne.

But to be honest, I too see no reason to doubt his claim, but at the same time the fact he would go after me like he did with a guilty investigation on Orig seems odd. For now put me down as undecided, I will not blindly believe him because he has not "acted cop" like I would think someone would do, but I have already said no one should pretend to know how they act and so I cannot count out the fact he is just a different kind of player then me.

As for my scum list... Your all on it. Plain and simple... No matter how "pro-town" you are I have no proof of your affiliation and so I will not be stupid and not consider you possible scum. A few of you are "less likely" and a few are "more likely" but to have a list with anyone you are not %100 certain is town on it seems kinda dumb... Again I will not pretend to know how you should or are playing so... to each his own...

[Korlash]

Cool, I will do that first thing in the morning. For now it's night night time... Stupid getting up early and going into work...

[Korlash]

Ok, had a nice little tiny amount of sleep and boy am I tired...

Lets see... what to begin with... I suppose I can give my input on a few things then give my "scumdar" thing...

A major, unsubstantiated assertion here. "The scum are the most vocal"?

Well, I assume you are including me in that.

I'd love to know who else is scummy on the basis of activity.
...
A pro-town cop should simply NOT be talking like this. HoS: dybeck

No offense here Vollkan, but if Dybeck is really the cop I think he should more or less be telling you to go F*** your numbers. I mean if I was the cop I would push for a guilty investigation lynch all day until either I am the one dead or my target is. And anyone defending my target would obviously get flagged as potential scum buddies.

Granted, I have seen your numbers, and I fully understand your logic. But I think counting on your fingers and toes pales in comparison to actual hard evidence. And no matter how much you try to predict the odds of how people act, 9 times out of 10 your wrong. I have already seen this proved this game, mostly with your so called "traps" against me.

waste our lynch on someone who will be NKed anyway and then expose ourselves to the risk of a random NK (if Orig = mafia).

To be honest here, the more you talk about it, the less likely I am thinking he would be NKed if he were mafia. The only person I see NKing him would be a Vig. However, I would think the SK may leave him alive to try and make him a scapegoat tomorrow. Honestly, if the entire town kept confirming the fact that player X is going to be NKed anyways, why Nk him? It just sounds so... Well... stupid...

But this point really does not matter, because if he survives the night he gets lynched tomorrow right? so either way he dies... However, if he is not the SK/Vig then thats an additional two more deaths we have to worry about. I have been weighing the possibility of both Sk and Vig in my mind. I mean we are on a plain that has a killer on board. That of course would point to an Sk right there. Yet in many plain/hijacking situations there is usually someone who fights back, or in this case a vig. I could honestly see them both because if Orig is the Scum, then that woudl mean Vig killed whats his name... spurgistan. And I will admit when I did my reread he was another of my likely scum people. So I have always been harboring the fact that perhaps Orig is not the supposed Vig/Sk.

Again I am not pushing for his lynch here or anything. Just more of my crappy thoughts for you to attack. I will say it is kinda hard for me to agree that pushing so hard for your guilty investigation is not "pro-town cop" material... I mean that is actually one of the main focus points I have in believing a cop claim. But I still cannot ignore all the times he Didn't do that in the past. And so I still do not fully believe his claim.

All right that out of the way...

My scum list (In order of "scumminess")

1)Lucienne-Roughly %60
1)Elias-Roughly %60
~They both seem a bit to inactive at this point when their opinion really matters here. So I have them set kinda high because I really want to get more out of them.

2)Originality- %55
~ either Vig or Sk, already killed a towny, has guilty investigation. All signs point to bad for town in some way. Vollkan has made good points about keeping him alive, but there is always a possibility those two are the scum buddies and would mean it would be bad to listen to Vollkan. Either way I do not want to lynch him now. Especially without Elias's or Lucienne's input.

3) Vollkan- Even %50
~Personal Feelings aside, I think he is one of the best players I have ever seen so I respect a lot he has been saying and tend to agree with him about certain stuff. Some things look pro town to me, while others seem a bit more... I don't know... (I would laugh my head off if he turned out to be the Vig/Sk XD)

4) Dybeck- %45
~Do not fully believe his claim because of a few things, did not immediately switch vote after claiming guilty investigation, seemed to waver a bit from his original target. But he seems more or less sticking with his "lynch Orig" policy now even with Vollkan repeatedly attacking him for it. I can see both sides ATM but am finding it hard to agree with Dybeck mostly because he does not have that "posting flair" Vollkan does.

5)AlyG-About %30
5)Gem-About %30
~These two just haven't really set any alarms off in my head. Apparently I missed something about Gem somewhere but I keep seeing his name under "likely scum" with like me or dybeck as his partner or something... Crazy... I like the way Gem posts things personally. And much like Vollkan, I can see his side 9 times out of 10.

6)Shaft.ed- A good %25
~I really do not have much to go on here. I agree he seems likely pro-town. Any things I had on him seem to be cleared up. I only see him as mafia under one condition, and that is as Vollkan's partner and as unlikely as that sounds I cannot count it out. So while I agree he is one of the most likely Townies, there is always that shot is is just that good as a mafia.

7) Korlash- Roughly %10
~This guy is simply an Asshole... He stole my lunch the other day and now he is putting words in my mouth. I have nothing to go on but a Role pm I got so it is only a hunch... but I think he is town...

Alright time for work... see you guys in another 10 or so hours...

[Korlash]

wow a couple things to talk on.. Cool...

Firstly... My ever favorite Vollkan comments... woopy!

Does this mean that you oppose lynching SK-Orig? By the sounds of it, your sole concern is the prospect of me being scum with Orig.

Yes I am against lynching orig. I would like to hear back from Dybeck first, but right now he is my top pick for a lynch.

Use of the word "crazy" is interesting, because it is not "crazy". In fact, I think it is a legitimate suggestion.

Oh I think it is a legitimate suggestion. It's just that I clearly remember one of the first posts I read of Gem's when I got back was "Don't take what I have been saying personally" or something like that and it made me laugh this morning. That crazy thing is more of a joke really.

@ shaft.ed: sweet... That saves me a lot of reread ^^

you realize this is a scum list right? not a list of people who you want to pressure?

Do you honestly feel that me and lucienne are the most likely scum based on the fact that we've posted the least?

If so, thats ridiculous.

Further, I havent even been that inactive lately. I've been keeping up and posting my opinion where needed. It's starting to get kind of irritating how the latest cool thing to do is go "hmm, i cant think of anything to say, hey lucienne and elias! post something!"

Anyways, Shafted makes some good points on the Dybeck claim, many that I missed, mainly because I was in my official out of game stage. Now that the these things are pointed out to me, they definately add up. So Dybeck just moved up several spots on my LoS.

Well with posts like these I cant imagine how I could think your not contributing useful stuff... [/sarcasm]

I mean seriously with all the talk on Dybeck and orig you cannot say more then "Hmm, interesting post Shaft.ed! Dybeck has just moved up a bit!" I am glad you went into more detail in yoru next post and for all intensive purposes I did list Lucienne first for a reason.

Secondly, I do find any sort of lurking right before a deadline very scummy. In my mind I see you two as trying to stay out of the radar for the rest of the day while giving us very little to go on tomorrow. So yes, I consider you two the most needed responses/posts out of and if I have to call you scum to get it so be it.

Now I am not saying I would lynch either of you two right now or anything... But a little more detailed stuff then you have been giving would be very nice man.

Ok thats about all the stuff facing me at this moment I think...

[Korlash]

Wow... I never thought that would go like it did... Gotta be careful not to let personal feelings get into this post...

As much as I hate to kick a dead horse here it goes...

At this point, I see your insistence that I dont post enough content as a personal attack. I responded both to your posts, naming two lurkers the two top scum, as well as responded to Shafteds case, the two most important posts. Furhter, its ridiculous of you to attack my response to shafteds post. Shall we compare it to yours?

And I see your reaction to me naming you in my top two scum pick as a little bit over the top.

Yeah, my post was definately the one that added nothing to the discussion.

Yes it was... Glad you can admit that. Mine on the other hand addressed three real points while yours barely addressed one. I think the scale is in my favor there.

You dont understand my point. Although I believe that lurking is a completely and utterly STUPID scum tell, (as I do it all the time as town and scum, depending on time constraints, how into the game I am, and other factors) my point is not that you have no basis for suspecting me. The point is that you made a list of scum, not a list of people that needed to be more active. If in fact, you just put us up there to get us to talk,

No shit sherlock... Did the fact I said I put you guys up there to get you to talk have anything to do with this breakthrough here? Also I find the fact that your talking now to be... I don't know... my point! I too agree lurking is not a scum tell, I hardly think ANYTHING can be defined as a "scum tell" that word is so god damn overused in this game... HOWEVER! When a deadline is posed and a player repeatedly uses an excuse not to post, or repeatedly posts very little it makes me think he or she is trying to skirt under the radar. I don;t see why you are reacting so badly to me asking you to post a bit more then you are. I don't see Lucienne acting so rash... That was a joke in case your as slow as you seem...

who ARE your top suspects?

An hour ago, Dybeck, right now, you and Dybeck...

I have already shown who I want lynched, my opinion on Dy and Orig, and my top suspects. Now, how have I not provided enough info for tomorrow?

How do you feel on Gem? Whats your biggest issues with me? How about Lucienne? Vollkan? Shaft.ed? There is going to be a fucking mafia NK here... and I would either like to know what your issues are with the person going to die, or if you die what your issues are with your supposed killers. Also if I am the one to die perhaps it may lead to my killer being found. I don't really know, but we have like a week + until deadline... use it stupid...

Opinion on Orig? undecided on whether he is vig or SK.

I believe I was undecided on whether he was Sk or Mafia... I could be wrong... I do have a bad memory XD

What exactly do you mean by detailed? I've given you my opinions, and why. As far as I can tell, most of your content comes from being attacked by Vollkan, and some OMGUS on shafted. So I'd advise you to get off my fucking case on "not enough content".

that seems a little over the top... I mean... If you are posting content, detailed and useful, don't you think that it would backfire on me? And that the other players would see that? Why are you so afraid to be in the spotlight right now? A simple "I think I am posting enough" would be enough on your part and would probably end up making me look like the bad guy. Yet you choose to react pretty defensive... I don't get it... It doesn't make sense...

This post you just made was so full of content. A baseless attack on my contribution. Nice one.

My post also contained two answers to things Vollkan said. A thank you to Shaft.ed for doing something nice( I have mentioned before how helpful you guys can be to me in this regards.), and 2, count them two issues against you. Thats a total of 5 points in my post. Stop trying to make me seem just as useless as you are...

You say you don't like Korlash, what are your thoughts on Gemelli?

What he asked...

I still hold to waiting until Dybeck answers some things. After that I will place my vote... Until then I will keep poking Elias as it seems to be having some effect... *poke poke poke*

(Guess I didn't do a good job of keeping personal feelings out of the post eh? )

[Korlash]

...

*twitch*

The only thing I can think to say to that is wow... Then make a joke... so here it goes...

Wow...

Also:

Based on the relationships I've been able to track here, if Vollkan *does* come up scum, I would consider his most likely scumbuddies to be Lucienne and Korlash.

Well as much as I would love to get closer to Lucienne... *Rowl* I find it hard to imagine me and Vollkan as buddies... Just because of how hard we fought in the beginning... I mean distancing can only go so far right? Did you actually point out these "relationships" in the huge thing or do i have to ask for them? I will look later when I have time but I feel asking might get it fast..

*Scoots closer to Lucienne*

So... I hear we make good buddies...

[Korlash]

I have more to say but I'm pointing this one out now so i don't forget...

I don;t see why you are reacting so badly to me asking you to post a bit more then you are. I don't see Lucienne acting so rash... That was a joke in case your as slow as you seem...

It's not a joke when we're this close to deadline and you were asked seriously who tops you scumlist, and also never clarified in the post who your actual top person was. At this point in the game, I have no choice but to defend myself even with the possibility that you were joking. And if you havent noticed, Lucienne isnt acting this rash because SHE HASNT POSTED YET, for one, and two, now youve said (3 posts later) that is was a joke and theres no reason for her to. Anyways, seeing as Shafted responded in seriousness, I think its pretty clear that that part of your post was not easily distinguished as a joke.

Um... so you are that slow... Ok... Sorry... I was under the impression you actually had a positive IQ here... Sorry... I will clearly spell it out right now... Are you ready... I'll try to do it slowly!

I don't see why you are reacting so badly to me asking you to post a bit more then you are. [/real sentence]

I don't see Lucienne acting so rash...

[/joke]
That was a joke in case your as slow as you seem... [/trying to show joke]

As for my top two... I just told you, you! And Dybeck, with Lucienne as a third. My reasons for putting you and her up there may not be enough for you, but I stand by what I posted.

More to come in a second =D

[Korlash]

Through clever editting, you left out the part of my post where I compared the info we'd provided.

I never posted my actual statement yes, I find it too difficult to go back in and requote my shit. But I did address your statements before and after. I thought that good enough.

I wondor if you think youre clever when you ignore obvious sarcasm.

The same can be said about you... *Cough*

If you hadnt noticed, I've been talking the whole game. The reason I'm writing more now is because you've really pissed me off by yelling "you have no content" when I've said all there is to be said.
...
Thats what I was asking for. And you think youve pressured me into providing info. Anyways, what exactly makes you think I'm scum? That I'm pissed off? Ask yourself: do townies get pissed off when theyre wrongly accused? Hell yes they do. Again, youre just making a bad move, placing me at the top of your scumlist for being pissed off.

To be fair I will try and see it from your side here... *looks*
Nope still don't get it...

Ok heres my thing. First, Let's say you are mafia. As town I see you as still an unkown. I could care less about yoru posts before I replaced. I won;t look at them. I don;t give a rat's ass about them. I do care about any posts you have made sense I have been here. And, personally, I do not remember much of you AlyG, or Lucienne. (On a side note AlyG needs to post like.. today... Kinda hard to rank him to high seeing as how he is claimed power role but...) So I want all the yummy info on you I can get my hands on... mmmm... Infoy goodness!

Now lets pretend I am mafia and you are town. I would love the fact your getting pissed off right now! I would keep pushing it as hard as I could to get you to either slip up or maybe get stuff to use tomorrow. So telling me you are getting pissed won't get me to stop. However, if this was the case, I could see you saying "Screw you Korlash I post enough." And leaving it at that. I could possibly accept that...

Lastly, perhaps we are both town. I see your reactions as a little to defensive. Like I said, if you feel you have honestly posted enough just say "I feel I have posted enough and it will take more then just you to get me to post more." And leave it at that instead of actually proving my point and posting more... Whether you like it or not my simple posts at you have made you repost a lot of (semi-useless yes) content. So in my mind I am happy! Yay! Party time is now!

What does the amount posted in any given post have to do with skimming under the radar? I've given definitive opinions on what people have asked of me and other issues. Why is the fact that I dont post 300 words have to do with me "skirting under the radar" You're ridiculous.

It's not that you don't post a lot, it's that you don;t seem to post that often. There are a lot of excuses for that, and I can accept most of them. But while this deadline is in effect I personally feel the same person should post every 6-8 posts. So roughly 3 times a day would be nice. Again, Some people only have access certain times, or have so many other games, and that is a good excuse. But I wont stop pressing them to post more because of it.

Attacking my intelligence will make everything better. First of all, I've already said that I'm undecided on Gemelli. Second of all, what the hell do you mean, "biggest issues"? Lucienne is a lurker, Vollkan and Shafted I have no problems with. My biggest issue with you is your refusal to accept that I have been contributing, and the fact that youre continually using it as a fallback thing when you have nothing better to say. "Hmm, elias should post, lol"

Ok become decided, comment on something new about him, say you will do a reread.. theres a million different ways to contribute even if your "undecided." Tell me why. Illustrate both sides. Say reasons he MIGHT be this or that.

And there has to be something else on me then that. I mean half the people here hate me for reasons not even contributed to this game, surely you can find one other thing to mention.

Lucienne is a lurker... Nice... Do you have any feelings on the few posts she did make? Do you think of here one way or the other? Do you plan on helping get her to talk?

You have NO PROBLEMS with either of them? None at all? Even after Gem's huge Vollkan thing? Come on... Stop trying to convince me you post enough when this is all you can fucking say about people. I mean God, is it really that big of a deal whether I think you have posted enough? No. Should you be making such a big deal over it? no. Should you post more? Hell yes.

Good job ignoring my point. I just showed how I've actually given a much clearer depiction of my opinions then you have of yours, and you ignore it. Nice one.

Kinda like how you keep ignoring me asking you to post more useful stuff... I see it as a fair trade off. I'll gladly do a recap of every single on of my feelings on every single player after you do that same.

Oh yes, the fact that I said "fucking" means that I went over the top. Listen, just because I used a swears doesnt mean you can ignore my points. You know why I didnt just say "I think I am posting enough"? I dont believe in making random assertions. I like to back up what I say. Thats what that post did. The fat that I was a little angry when I wrote it is not a reason to ignore its logic.

You can say anything you damn well please as long as it is not some personal attack (i.e. your mom is a F... etc etc etc...) I get mad too.. trust me go check out Treestump mafia... Or whatever it is called...

I just think telling me to "get off your case" is a little over the top... its a game of Mafia man... The whole point is to

BE ON SOMEONES CASE!

Stop saying "get off my case" do something about it. You know a simple summary of all your feelings right after I originally said it might have been enough for me to move on. And I don't, and if you had already done one that still stood at that time a simple quote or link to that would have been enough. But nooo...

Um yeah, as I said. The first point I had made previously, and you should have also, since it was brought up ages ago. That point hurts you more then helps you. The second response to Vollkan is hardly relevant. You said you joked. The thank you to Shafted is a terrible point! You didnt even address his post! The two issues with me are ridiculous, because I have been posting enough, and with content.

Firstly to explain where I was joking and where I was not can lead to some bad misunderstandings being avoided. Already you have taken a joke I said a little to seriously and thus have proved why me explaining my jokes are not a "bad point"

Secondly while I did not add anything to or about Shaft.ed posts my thank you for him was again, because of a previous misunderstanding that has now been avoided. Unlike you, he seems to want the town all on an equal foot here. And if I show my appreciation for it so be it. (See was it that hard? Did you honestly have to take all my comments as personal attacks when you could have easily cleared them up like I just did?)

As for my points against you, While you may think you post enough I don't. So bringing that up is not "ridiculous" in the least. At least not to me. I could care less if your happy with how often/much you post, if I am not I'm going to fucking tell you about it.

]Ive already stated that I am undecided on Gemelli. I have a neutral opinion of him currently. I dont know how else to put that. As for poking me, all youre doing is further angering me. Angering me simply gets me to swear a lot, which wont help the town much. If you think thats the best way that you can help the town now, then I think your no one to be telling me theres something wrong with my late day play.

Again, you can illustrate why he is neutral. There has to be something either kinda town or kinda scummy he said. His posts against Vollkan have to have somethings you can comment on, there has to be something you can say. Come on man, Saying "I think he is neutral" in no way tells me anything. How can you blame me for not considering that a helpful or content..y... post?

Also me continuing to poke one of my top three does seem like a good play for town... I will keep it up until there is a majority consensus for me to stop or you drop from my radar... *poke poke poke* or until my fingers get tired... *poke poke poke*

I myself will be posting something on the Vollkan/Gem posts tonight hopefully. I have business to attend to first but I ill try and read through all those jumbles... and.. long... ass posts... son of a... This site needs spoiler tags or something... Also A redo of my scum list, a few more Dybeck insights I think, and a couple prods to Lucienne and AlyG are soon to follow... Until then...

Oh and Elias... Take a Chill pill or something... If this is getting you pissed off there has got to be something wrong with you... Cause this is nothing... If you want me to break into my crap logic and stubbornness chest I will. I might even be able to create an equal Swear to real words ratio from you... But that of course woudl not help so I would rather you just calmed down! ^^

Oh and as for your newest posts I could care less if you think they are funny or not. Blatantly taking something I admitted was a joke and trying to use it against me will not help get me to stop focusing on you. Also, I should try and not insult what little intelligence you have... I'll try from now on...

Also I did not proof read this thing.. have to go... Sorry in advance for any mistakes... And for any personal attacks i would have deleted... >.> <.<

[Korlash]

I find it funny you keep ignoring what me and Elias are doing.. I would feel you would want to say something, one side or the other... I mean either tell me I am over pushing it, or he is over reacting... Or a combination of both... don't ignore it... *Angry face*

[Korlash]

Ok I have read up pretty much all of the Gem/Vollkan debate. Kinda dozed off in the middle... Woke up someone in Denmark.. how the hell did I get there? Anyways...

i found a few points Gem brought up that I specifically looked for a response from Vollkan simply because I wanted to see what he would say, but I couldn't find any. I don't want to bring most of them up seeing as how they hold no grounds on the case, and I don't want to seem like I am trying to use weak based attacks on anyone more then I already have.... I'll say one and see how you take it...

Sorry? Where did I say Orig was 100% confirmed scum.

If you want percentages (0% = obv town, 100% = obv scum)
AlyG = 0%
shaft.ed = 20%
Elias = 55%
Gemelli = 60%}
Korlash = 65%} Not tied, but the above was more based on specific reactions to lynching Orig. On overall perception, Korlash is scummier.
Lucienne = 70%
dybeck = 75%

Orig = 100%

Please explain how it is possible to read that post otherwise. This should be good.

I combine it with the quote:

I would have been perfectly happy if you'd actually come out from time to time and admitted that you had made mistakes.

And I see a valid (Non proof of town/mafia in anyway) argument that makes me wonder just how many times you have made mistakes.

You see now why I hate big, long, hour to read posts... I tend to find one little thing and stick with it the whooooooole time...

Also on a more serious discussion note... Can Vollkan please define "Misrepresentation" in his own words. He used it enough in his defense that I figure if I want to take his statements to their full meaning I should get his exact meaning down pact. I could look it up, but that doesn't necessarily mean that is the definition he meant, if you see where I am going here... if not I am not asking for the definition, I am asking Vollkan to define it... So I don't need like Shaft.ed to define it or something... I'll stop talking now...

Ok a new list for y'all to see...

Scum list (Lynch/vote oriented)

1) Dybeck- Claim has many faults and snags in it. Was keen on jumping on me in a somewhat... scummy way... Most of his posts seem to lack content and he does seem to avoid a lot fo the more direct statements at him. I already said i will give him one defense post before voting but if he waits too much longer I may vote anyways.

2) Orig- Naturally he must follow Dybeck. One of them is lying. Plain and simple. Vig should come up towny when investigated so I feel their claims counteract. Insane cop seems like to much to hope for(So to speak) and so I have more or less ruled it out.

3) Elias- simply because I feel he overreacted to my simple statement... No chance of me voting him because I know one of the above two will turn out to be scum. Still feel I would like him to participate a bit more in active discussions and so I am looking forward to his post tomorrow! ^^

4) Vollkan- I cannot ignore my gut feelings I got through my read up. But it is true his play style is something I am not used to. I like how in depth he is with posts, his way of thinking, and how aggressive yet to the point he can seem. I cannot look past the "Following Shaft.ed" angle, or the fact that Gem has made a few good points I agree with.

5) Gem- I find his "posting style" a bit more like able then some of Vollkans and I do not know exactly why. Perhaps the bolding thing... Something subtle that just draws me into them... I think it may be his tiny bit of humor I keep seeing now and then... Back on point, Some of his "attacks" if that is what you want to call them on Vollkan stem into the beginning of Day 2, and "throughout day 2" and so I am unable to fully appreciate those. I feel Vollkan has more or less defended himself nicely provided he has a good definition for "Misrepresentation." I also realize I have basically summarized my thoughts on his post and not on his affiliation meaning I must not have a lot to go on him... interesting...

6) Shaft.ed- Almost forgot him. He is a hard guy to figure out. I like him, I like his posts, and I like his way of thinking/seeing things. Unless somethign very bad happens I do not see myself going up against him again.

7) AlyG/Lucienne- As Elias pointed out just their lurkerness is no reason to label them as "Scum" so I will post them at the bottom here. I think AlyG's claim holds up so he is obviously town. However I feel there is very little (For me at least) to go on Lucienne and that is why I am so interested in getting her to post... So I can get to know her better >.> <.< Favorite color... Movie genera... Flower... Dinner at 8?... *cough*

Scum list (Pressure/reaction/scum hunting/ info gathering oriented)

1) Lucienne - I said I have nothing to go on her and so day three will be difficult for me.

2) Elias- Again I feel there is little for ME to go on. I personally see him as unknown and that is why I would like more from him. His recent posts (while more or less no info for the ton as a whole) I felt I got to know him more or less as the player/poster he is. These bonds are important to me because if I cannot understand your ways of thinking, posting style, and personal feelings about things I cannot really feel i know you enough to begin really scum hunting you. I'm sorry for the personal attacks I used, those were uncalled for and lame.

3) Vollkan- While I dread any future long ass posts from you I feel you can really narrow things down to this or that, your numbers while I don't read them seem to be good tools for other players (Gem and Shaft.ed at least), and overall I feel you have taught me in my newbiness a lot this game.

4) Dybeck- I only rank him this low because i am only looking for one post from him. Be it a very in depth post that answers a lot... I kinda feel my feelings on him are set in stone because I cannot convince myself he can even come up with a use able excuse... But I give him the benefit of the doubt... Cop claim, be it most likely false or not, merits a bit of leeway...

5-8) The rest of us....

Um I have other feelings here... I secretly believe Vollkan would make a good SK this game... Would explain a few things in my mind... Like... Why he felt keeping Orig alive was a good thing... and why he was so convinced Orig would be NKed... needless to say that can also be explained as him being town but still... It is a thought.

Ok thats all I can manage ATM...

[Korlash]

A) My bad then... I didn't see where you did so just forget I mentioned it...

B) Nothing is ever obviously anything man... No matter how clear you make it someone will always somehow manage to misinterpret it. As for the Quote nearby thing... I could be missing it because I am not going to go back and check that all his info is correct but the few times I remember he basically used a post-by-post attack and thus would regard the quotes around it.

c) I will get to this first thing in the morning... Most likely.. worst case scenario first thing after work tomorrow... Not enough time right now... sorry... ><

d) In my mind, if I was SK i would love to NK a mafia... to help make town think I was vig.. so if you know he is mafia because you are SK he seems a good NK choice for you... That is mostly all I am basing this on... I know it is not a formidable attack and I am in no way implying you ARE the sk... it is just a suggestion so I can do an "I told you so" thing in he event you are the Sk... Yeah... I like to rub it in the faces of people when the game is over... ^^

[Korlash]

After the amount of content the rest of us are putting it, it's the very least you can do.

Lolz... sorry it's funny when you think of Lucienne here... Ok I'll shut up and go to work now....

[Korlash]

Damn... I have to study to become a manager tonight... Sigh... lesson one... store Operations... *falls asleep*...

Ok I think I will take a break and go over a few things here.. Post back in a second...

[Korlash]

Ok... A lot of the things I was going to comment on are just a waste of time and would only make me look worse for slowing the game up...

Big thing I saw:

Korlash: Leaning towards Dybeck or Elias

I believe I am leaning towards Dybeck or Orig. Which I know to be kinda contradictory, but I know one of them is lying and so if I should choose to believe Dybeck's claim I would vote with him, thus Orig. I have no intention of voting/lynching/leaning Elias at all... I thought I made hat clear when I posted my two different scumdars.. Guess not..

Um... what else...

Gemelli, 50% is my default position. I gave you a mere 5% extra.

So if you say someone is 5% town you mean they are very likely town?... interesting...

However, it doesn't matter if the cat is white or black, so long as it catches mice.

Nice metaphor... especially on today... Still I would rather you have a white cat then a black cat... If at all possible... If the cat is too black he might get lost outside at night!... Wow... it's amazing how much that saying might actually work in a game of mafia... weird... XD go me!

Uhhhggg... Guess it's time to go back to studying... No need to refute most of the Vollkan arguments Gem made seeing as how you two have pretty much come to a decision on most of them. I will try to reread and see if any of my original points still stand out and then ask about them.

Oh and I believe it is time to

Vote: Dybeck

... Stop, not, being, helpful! Or else you end up like me ><

[Korlash]

Self-preservation prevails again, Korlash. You don't want to post because it might have negative ramifications for yourself.

No, I do not want to post because it would spiral us into another one of our "pointless" discussions and I could be accused of hindering scum hunting again... Wait... that is what you said.. nevermind...

@ Korlash: Even if you DID believe dybeck's claim, why would you want to lynch Orig? You are ignoring the numbers of the situation and not explaining the reasoning behind your position. For that, FoS: Korlash

I have on more then one occasion explained my views on Orig... You just seem so convinced you are right that you choose to shoot down any points we make against him. I don't have to give my god damn opinions on why I want the fucking SK dead moron... I agree he is not the best lynch, but if he did get an honest to god scum investigation I am more inclined to believe he is mafia and thus more inclined to agree he is an acceptable lynch. As of right now I have no intention of lynching him and no intention of spiraling us back into the fucking 800 pages of useless god damn same exact post after the other... God man are you that full of yourself that you are the best god damn mafia player in the world that you have to be right even if proven that your trying to protect a known mafia? God damnit man... This gets me so pissed off that... gaw.. ahhhh... I wana go out and punch little kids tricker treating now..

WOW THAT FELT AWESOME! I now see why people do it... god.. wow... I feel great... Probably going to get lynched.. but man... still feel great...

A ranking of 5% would equate to near certainty that person was town.

It just seems odd to me... But to each his own. I can work with that...

You have given no rationale for this vote. Moreover, why on earth is this "time" ripe for voting dybeck?

...

dybeck has NOT given a "defence post" yet and it has not even been a full day since you made this "I will give him..." post.

Explain.

I don't need to fucking explain this to you. (Ehh.. not as good anymore...)

Seriously though, I have told him on more then one occasion that if he does not quit not helping, does not contribute, and that after one post if I am not satisfied I will vote him. He could have easily said "SOMETHING" in his last post.. but instead he took the easy way out and killed another two days of the deadline time. He deserves my vote. Crap cop claim that he won't even try to back up, combined with the fact he just plain wanted to lynch me for no reason, I have more then enough reason to put my vote on him and if you cannot see that then why don't you fucking unvote before trying to weaken my vote on him. (Ok I lied.. it still feels good ^^)

And yeah.. While I have no reason to unvote, I also see no reason to lynch without a truly, very detailed, very substantial, post from him. However, if he chooses to keep ignoring us, he will see his actions backfire come deadline.

Also, because I can clearly see this post as my "damning" piece of evidence, I want to say this now. Most of your "numbers" are based on him being the SK. And the numbers you have for him being mafia all point to his likeliness of being NKEd.. I don't know about you But I am not the kind of person to cross my fingers and hope a mafia is killed instead of just... KILLING HIM NOW! We kill a mafia, end of story, great lynch, good day, point for us! If Dybeck is telling the truth I think a 100% mafia lynch is better then listening to your numbers and losing come tomorrow... As it stands I feel Dybeck is lying... So it all really doesn't matter...

*Worthless Disclaimer: Please excuse all the above foul language and personal attacks. Korlash is under a lot of pressure at work and has been undergoing a lot of stress. While it does make him feel good to lash out it will probably only lead to him becoming an alcoholic. And I do not have the money to spend on beer! In short.. can I borrow $5?

[Korlash]

I make a point of not being offended by foul language. I expect people to tolerate rudeness from me if ever I get pissed, and I extend them the same courtesy in kind. If nobody got offended, nothing would be considered rude and the world would be so much happier.

You can be so wise sometimes... ;_; *Claps*

But more on the thing... I just did a pretty decent post I think but my laptop died so I will try to recreate it...

Your basis of why lynching Orig is bad seems to hang on the Sk Nking him. Again, stop assuming you know every move a person will make. I clearly remember you saying at one point and time that if Orig NKs we lynch him tomorrow... So logically, the real Sk would set him up by NKing someone else (Maybe me >< Ahhhh!!!!) In my mind that kills two birds with one stone, he can frame Orig and get rid of the tracker!

Now on the other hand, while you only seem to look at the worst case scenario, I like the best case one myself, that tomorrow sees us at 4-1-1... A much better situation then we are in now don't you think? You keep saying the SK's job is to eliminate mafia, then why don't you think the SK will hit a mafia tonight? Because you may be wrong? Oh thats brilliant... "Guys! I could be wrong! So listen to me here!" No... Unless you bring me a good solid reason why lynching a 100% known to be mafia is bad for the town that does not involve what the NK could/would be, I may drop Orig on my list... The way I see it, we lynch a mafia, we did a good job, great day, point for us, good thing!

Also I keep seeing that you are worried about a mislynch. If I believe Dybeck's claim, then I would be sure Orig was mafia, and thus we would not mislynch. And that will more or less prevent half of your bad scenarios right there! It all seems to be a win-win in my mind here...

Also on a side note: Do you see why I did not get into my other crap logic arguments? I mean I clearly outlined a case against the argument of "Cherry-picking" posts based solely on the fact you guys talked about it..... I would hate to hear what the discussion that came of of that sounds like... O.o

Dang my post had something else in it too...

Oh yeah! If the odds become the same either way, why not not take the risk of the SK not doing what you think he should, when we can play it safe and eliminate a mafia today without fuss? It seems kinda anti-town to see a mafia member, tell the SK to kill him, then randomly lynch another player!

And the last thing...

Right! I still rank Dybeck higher and so there is very little chance of me even Voting Orig so all this is a moo point... ^^ moooo... mooooo! (Yeah I know there is a "t" there... It's my post... leave me alone... )

Also you never said if you would lend me $5 or not...

[Korlash]

Sorry about that... I will be posting up to date stuff later tonight! No worries there. If someone does hammer before I get back and the thread is locked I will word up any reply I woulda made today and post it at the beginning of day two. Just so it doesn't look like I was trying to pass today off without content. Sorry.. very busy and what not...

[Korlash]

Hey I got my post coming... I will proabbly need about an hour to fully get all the past few days in... so if Stree gets on before I post it perhaps he can find it in his heart to hold up a second?

[Korlash]

My read is this: Orig is at 100% because we now know Orig is a rival killing faction to dybeck. shaft.ed is at 80% because shaft.ed is a very useful townie who dybeck wants dead. Lucienne is at 70% possibly, as Orig said, as distancing; I am unsure of this. Elias is at 30% so that he appears reasonably pro-town, without being imperiled. I am at 20% is a shameless effort to buddy up and Gemelli is at 10% as an effort to embroil a townie should dybeck turn up scum.

You completely ignored me here! Man I feel left out T_T


... So we did have a cop... that sucks... I need to reread his posts to see i he let any of his investigations slip... *sigh*

[Korlash]

A whole cookie?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? o.O

....

T_T Happy days are here!!!!!

[Korlash]

Ok I checked "some" of the thread... did not see anything that looked like any sort of investigation clues from Shaft.ed...

As for my feelings on Orig and AlyG... They may have been afraid of a Doc... Which could explain why AlyG is alive. And they may have been baning on Orig listening to us and not NKing... So in my mind both their claims could still be true. One question.. why would an SK not kill? Doesn't this further help his Vig case?

And I don't fully understand this Elias case you have Vollkan. I have to reread and see what in fact makes him a possible mafia all of a sudden. Comment back on it later...

[Korlash]

He's always been a "possible mafia". He has the strongest links with dybeck and I intend to debate him on this.

Like I said I plan on rereading everything you two have said today and even a bit from yesterday. I want to hold off commenting on the case until I am up to speed and understand both sides. I should have my own views then tomorrow.

Preparing for a debate tournament tomorrow.

Hey I never even thought of that. I guess this game (mafia in general, not this particualar game that is...) Must make some good practice for debating... I have always wondered why I play it, I suppose I just like to argue

[Korlash]

Ok... But FYI this is still without my reread of current events.. this list is primarily based on yesterday...

1) Vollkan
2) Gemelli
3) Eias
4) Lucienne

Things will change come reread time...

[Korlash]

If I remember correctly I only ranked him so high because at that time I was trying to get him to post more and I did not like his reactions to what I said. I really have not seen any connections to Dybeck form him. I have yet to do my reread! Had to do stuff today... T_T

To answer your question...

Korlash, on what basis have Gemelli and myself moved to the top of your suspicion list?

I did a huge post of current events and more or less ruled Elias out right before the thread was locked.. 4 minutes late!!! Freaking 2 hours out of my life... gone...

I think I had a new list in there too correcting the one you made for me... In fact the list you quoted was YOUR list for me, not my own... Interesting... your not trying to set me up are you? o.O Or is it another trap?

Hmmm...

[Korlash]

What page did I post it on? I looked and couldn't find it

[Korlash]

So in other words 4 pages ago... 3 pages before I was suppose to update my list. So yeah... My views changed in those 3 pages. I find it more or less unnecessary to go over it again as I am about to create a new list once I reread. So unless you find it absolutely essential to know what placed you on top of this list mere posts before I give you a completely new list I think I will just move on.

Not trying to be a jerk you see, just trying to avoid any unnecessary attacks or statements I may or may not be pulling once I get my new list up. ^^

And thank you for finding it... I missed it when I looked. Thanks again!

[Korlash]

Ok both A and B from line 2:

*Cough*

He posted more...

Ok Done... On with the reread!

[Korlash]

Take it how you will... You more or less called it... what did you say... A "Pissing match"

If you cannot even realize you justed called any case I had on him a "pissing match" and am now expecting to hold me to it, you are seriously whacked up in the head man...

So far in my reread I either disagree with Vollkan's points or agree with Elias's defense in some way. I do not feel like quoting every little thing as I am super tired so I only point out a few things...

1) Your "Post 541" Thing does make a good reason to suspect Elias. But it is more or less a bad attack. It could in fact prove a partnership between them, and so yes I think putting Elias on the chopping block right now is more or less a worthwhile ting, however. You cannot prove anything off of it as the person who said it is dead. So any attack you base off this quote is worthless.

Do I think Elias COULD be mafia= yes, have I seen any attack against him that makes me think he is vote worthy= no

the other thing is your post 1127 thing. I also find it odd that he would not mention Dybeck at all. I can agree with his excuse, as he was only going off your list, however he says "Cop or mafia" but int he post says the three mafia are "ME, gem, and Lucienne" and so his excuse kinda contradicts his post.

Still not enough to vote but more or less a greater reason to suspect him!

Also, I would be more inclined to trust your cases Vollkan if you stopped assuming you know what everyone woudl do. You said something about "Knowing how scum would act" in a certain situation which more or less made any point you had just made worthless to me. I am getting a bit annoyed at having to argue my cases only to have you think you are GOD and know everything about everyone...

Thats about all I have to say right now... I am still waiting for you to "Get to Gem" as you mentioned earlier...

Also is it possible Orig is an SK who just didn't NK to try and look Vig? I saw you ranked him at 65% and said it was because you still had feelings he was an SK but what would the odds be of an SK not killing to look like a vig? Also would it still be bad to not lynch him if he is the Sk? Just a question. All I want is an honest answer here...

[Korlash]

Moreover, I called it a pissing match in 1301, which was before you ranked Elias #3. Thus, if my dismissal of the case was really the reason that you chose to drop Elias back (and make me most suspicious, which is odd given that you allegedly were prepared to accept my criticism of the case on Elias) then makes absolutely no sense that you still held Elias under such suspicion.

A) Way back when I asked if my case against Elias was justified or a waste of time, YOU said it was a waste of time long before post 1301.

2) How is it odd I accept your criticism on the case on Elias? Does that even make sense to anyone else? I can barely follow that one... Was it an attack at me? Is it the current case or the previous case? What the heck are you talking about?

and lastly) I only held him under suspicion because I clearly saw you had some kind of case going on him and thus he HAD to have something suspicious about him if it was worth a full page of discussion. I hadn't read it yet so I did not know exactly HOW high I should rank him and so I went with the safe bet of assuming it was not that much at the time.

Korlash, the statements of dead mafioso are tremendously valuable.

In one theme game (ongoing unfortunately), the majority of the scum were eliminated purely by virtue of tiny little slips like dybeck's in 541.

The hardest part of this game (mafia generally) is lynching the first member of a scumgroup. Once that is done, a wealth of knowledge is opened up.

Agreed, the dead mafia do open up new doorways... Am I wrong when I remember you using Dybeck's list of putting Elias at 30% as an attack? Didn't you also mention something about Dybeck calling you town at some point? Couldn't one then use the same argument against you that you are currently using against Elias?

My main point on this matter, is that you more or less took the fact Elias tried to answer it and claimed he was "reaching" when in fact his answer sounded perfectly logical to me. Granted you came back with a not so bad counter attack by mentioning how little he posted but overall I still feel claiming him to be reaching at that point a bit extreme.

Our current situation is most likely 4:2:1 or 5:2.

Pardon my French, but no shit!

As for your numbers I am finally glad to admit I read them for a change XD

The only thing is, you completely skipped the lynching a town today scenario...

Let me see...

Lynching town puts us at
3:2:1
Mafia NK: 2:2:1
Orig town kill: 1:2:1 (Mafia win)
Orig mafia Kill: 2:1:1 (Not a bad scenario)

I think I did that right...

Also... If we kill all the mafia but still let the SK live we still win right? So I totally get leaving Orig alive... Ok... So we scratch him off the list...

And while i find AlyG still alive I can accept a WIFOM Doc thing... So for now (And most likely forever) I scratch him off the list...

Leaving me with Gem, Lucienne, Elias, and you Vollkan...

So my new list...
1) Vollkan (You still seem to base too much of your case on hat you believe they should or will do. It makes me doubt most of the stuff you bring to the table. While I believe I can learn a lot from you i feel you try to hard to sway people by voicing what you believe a scum woudl do in certain situations.)
2) Elias (While I do not agree with at least half of Vollkan's case I believe there is enough evidence to suggest a partnership with Dybeck. Further proof will be required but I would not be against more pressure/discussion on the matter.)
3) Gem (While I do not remember much of him Advocating Dybeck the fact he brings it up means it happened somewhere. Vollkan said he would get to it and has yet too... Avoiding pressuring your scum partner?:P )
4) Lucienne (Cannot remember the last time I heard her speak... Got a no result from AlyG, could be she never sent in any target, could be she got RBed, could be she is vanilla. Would appreciate some input ASAP)

So knowing I am town, assuming AlyG is town, and Assuming Orig is "not mafia" I am left with 4 people... so a 50% chance to hit scum... Not enough to vote any of you! So... i shall keep reading!

[Korlash]

This furthers exactly what I was saying about me having dismissed your case against Elias.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND! First you critisize me because I dropped Elias down a couple slots, now you think you need to Further kill my case against him.. What.. Do you want me to put him last? Seriously... Pick a side of your attack and stick to it... I am not debating you killed my case, that only proves why he dropped so much! God...

Now, if I am your biggest suspect (ie. most likely mafioso) and I am criticising your case for Elias being mafia, that would logically suggest that you should have some level of skepticism about my criticism. And yet, you take my criticism on board and have yet to even posit the possibility.

what possibility? I have skepticism about YOUR case on Elias.. why would I then have skepticism about MY case on Elias... I had doubts about my case yesterday and so you agreeing with me does not require me to analyze it any further then that.

You make no mention of me having a case against him and, moreover, you JUST SAID that I had said that the case against him was doubtful.

I meant the case today... go read your last three posts on the last page.. you more or less outline a big case on Elais.. and furthermore your case was so good it was worth a vote... so yes... MY case against him YESTERDAY was bad, but apparently there is a NEW case against him TODAY!

nice to see you are so convinced that there are 2 mafia remaining. I was unsure as to whether there was 1 or 2, given Orig could be SK, but you seem convinced that we have 3 mafia. I wonder why you are so sure....

Yeah I am pretty sure there are 2 mafia as currently I see more evidence pointing towards vig then SK... Even with an Sk I would still assume three total mafia... Unless the Sk is pro-mafia... Either way your numbers never seem to be anything other then 2 mafia so don't try to force this type of attack on me without realizing it is easily thrown back at you...

I was determining our best course of action. Thus, lynching a townie was not something within my scope of reasoning.

Really? I seem to remember you focusing on WCSs yesterday.. why the sudden change in heart?

No, not bad at all. Having to rely on scum cross-kills to have a hope of winning is no big deal /sarcasm

I no speak English well.. explain to me this "Scum Cross-kills"...

You know, you still haven't explained why you think I am scummy. I've told you that I am not assuming anything as prima facie fact, but I make assumptions to prompt reasoning.

Oh I think I went into great deal as to why I think your scummy yesterday... Adding onto that your constant basing of attacks on how you feel the person should and IS playing, Plus the fact you keep saying lynching Orig is a bad idea because he will just be NKed anyways yet the mere fact he is alive does not change anything COULD< key word, imply that you two are the last scum. I feel that is more then enough to explain why you are number 1. Now, if I had voted you I would have outlined a full case citing examples.. and the like... but until then my list is based on personal feelings and not so much hard evidence.

And what evidence have I given against Gem? Seriously... Or Elias for that matter... Other then one or two points I have pretty much left Elias alone, and have barely mentioned Gem today...

As for Prima facie.. You were quick to put a vote on someone day 3... Now I am not so sure about this... we have what... 6 players? no 7 players... So what.. 4 to lynch... granted not so much a fear of a quick lynch yet.. but I still find a vote this early a little odd... Again nothing vote worthy but enough to further my reason for why I deem you #1 material.

[Korlash]

If my criticism had really meant anything to you, you would have commented on it in your scumdar. You didn't.

*sigh* this is getting old... stop trying to say you know how the hell I play.

That you made a massive post ruling him out. I'd love to see what "rules Elias out"

Yeah I should probably post that eh... I think I saved it somewhere... Also to clarify in the post I more or less focused on dybeck and my reasons to vote him and more or less ignored Elias so at the end where I made my new list I had moved him down mostly because I was ignoring him. So I suppose "ruled out" was the wrong vocabulary to use there. My bad.

You suggested it was so blindly obvious that I should not have bothered.

You never have.. the entire game.. looked at any situation involving only 2 mafia! NEVER! So when you , once again, come in and say "Oh guys I think our situation is still X:X:X or X:X:X just like i have said in my last 100 posts!" I of course reply with a snappy comeback because I hate when people say the same things over and over and over... *Hours later* ... mmmm chili... oh yeah!

Christ on a cracker! I just answered this. Lynching a townie is BAD. Thus, I need not contemplate it in terms of our best outcome. I was comparing lynching mafia to lynching Orig, because that was what YOU had asked me to do.

Ok that I can accept...

If mafia kill SK and SK kills mafia, they cross-kill. It just means where scum take out each other and no townie gets hurt.

Ok then show me where in my post I gave you the opportunity to be sarcastic about this situation then. Making fun of my numbers... Jerk...

Oh I think I would love to know which posts establish this

There is no one post... Go back and read any scumdar I ever made with sentences about the people, review the whole Vanilla town incident, and check out any posts I have ever made that gave connections between you and shaft.ed... I know I kept laying out evidence all day yesterday... But until i feel like voting you can go find it yourself...

2) For this to be the case, Orig would need to be mafia with dybeck (HIGHLY UNLIKELY in the EXTREME) and so would I (Even objectively, you are alleging some seriously extreme bussing).

Yeah... I don;t really believe it too much either.. but I am always paranoid of anyone who keeps insisting not to lynch player X. (And I am not saying I do not agree with you. Just paranoid. Notice no vote, no pressing a case, just mentioning it in hopes to lower my paranoia.)

Good. I'll remember that, at this point in time, your suspicions are based on nothing more than what appears to be your dislike of my playstyle.

More specifically my dislike of how you present your cases.. and so in my mind most of your cases, while very well thought out and explained, seem more or less BS once you begin to "tell how you think people should play" and to explain that means nothing to me I'm sorry. If you keep doing it, I will keep ignoring a lot of your better points because I feel they are baseless. And in so doing that I then feel you do not have enough on Elias to be attacking him, and in doing that I assume you are scum trying to push BS cases on people...

See it is all a domino effect to me. You say "I think this is how someone will play in this situation!" and then vote or press that attack a lot. So then I think "Oh this is BS" I post against it, you get on me, I reply back, we keep getting further and further away. And before you know it in your mind "I saved Elias" and in my mind "You just came at me with a fully BS case!"

see I think a lot of my feelings against you are mainly for that reason and no matter why you do it, as long as you do it I will feel the same... But if thats how you are going to play I will try to get over it...

I don't know, what evidence have you given against Gem that gives him the #2 position?

Um no... you answer this first:

And what evidence have I given against Gem? Seriously... Or Elias for that matter... Other then one or two points I have pretty much left Elias alone, and have barely mentioned Gem today...

Don't say something like:

In fact, you actually give more evidence against Elias and Gemelli than you do against me.

If you cannot back it up...

What I am seeing here, is that Korlash has arbitrarily shuffled his suspicion list to plant me at the top and to move Elias out of the way.

Or it could be I saw through your mafia ploy to mislynch Elias and actually foudn a real scum. Who knows right? (Oh you do don't you... thats right...)

It doesn't "further" your reasons; it basically is your reason. Despite how stupid a reason it is to suspect me, it is the only tangible point you have presented against me beyond mere gut feeling.

No I have made plenty of reasons.. none of which are worth a vote... but all of them make you more suspicious then the lurker, the supposed dybeck supporter (Which I do not see) and the pissing match guy... Sorry that is life...

As an aside, I would really like AlyG, Lucienne and Gemelli to comment on this debate with Korlash and what you think it may suggest. As I have been saying, I have a theory but I need to see whether anyone else reaches the same conclusions without me influencing their thoughts by posting it.

Anyone else find it odd Vollkan can never give his own reasons or theories before he hears them from us first? I mean take the example i this post.. I ask him a question, he asked me to answer it first because he has no answer to it. Now take this, he could give a theory. Who cares if it influences you guys, that is what this game is about. Yet instead he asks you guys for them first...

Ohhh... Tsk tsk... I could honestly see this as you sitting there without any theory at all hoping someone else has one you can jump behind and support. Normally I wouldn't automatically assume this but I find you do it quit a lot... (And yeah this is when you ask me to "Give examples" or whatever you do.. And trust me I will have a list when and IF i vote you.. no worries there...)

oh and I almost forgot;

My haste to pass a vote makes me suspicious when, as you say, there is no risk of a quick lynch. I have already said that one more vote will cause me to jump off.

I personally find voting in the first post of the day a little strange... But each player has his own play style (Even if yours is wacky...) So I do not label this a "Scumtell" and yes, I have no fear of a quick lynch. But at the same time I wonder why you would even say "I will unvote if another player votes!"

WHY EVEN VOTE? Can you answer this one... It has been bugging me ever sence you first said it a couple posts ago...

[Korlash]

Hey what happens to all the dead bodies? Do we throw them out the door or try to flush them down the toilet? >.>

I mean wouldn't it be kinda weird to stay on a plain with like... all those dead people on it... *shudders*

[Korlash]

Well if you both insist it then there has to be something on this Elias thing... He honestly never suspected him at all? That could change a few things...

Then again it could have been him trying to buddy up with someone... Dang I guess I will look over this PBPA thing you got and check it out myself...

Also let's say Elias is the second scum, who would most likely be the third then?

[Korlash]

Hmm... You know that doesn't sound half bad... Of course I disagree with the parts about me... Could explain Lucienne... Cant agree more about AlyG or Orig...

So to me it is between Vollkan, Gem, and Elias... So if you BOTH assume Elias is likely scum I have to take it as a good bussing from one of you, or you two ganging up on a suspicious towny...

So if I am a little bit... what is the word... critical, of your cases it is because you are obviously in my top three. (That is of course directed at all three of you)

I really didn't feel I was wishy washy on Dybeck... I gave him a chance to defend and he didn't... Don't think I can explain it any better then that...

Moreover, his scumdar is what I would have expected of him if he was pro-town.

Can I ask you what you mean by this? I mean if he said I was probably town, and you say I am probably mafia... Ehh... I just don't get what your saying here... How is his scumdar most likely from a pro-town?

[Korlash]

My suspicions of you... You more or less just said that out of my three candidates it is unlikely Vollkan is scum.. so I am left with you and Elias...

That is about it...

I'm not much of a case maker so I just try to put everyone else's together...

I'm willing to go along with (1) for now, which -- as you point out -- puts Korlash a little farther under the microscope.

I'm not making the connection here.. how does her being an investigated innocent put me further under the microscope? Is it just that you have eliminated one of your suspicions and so the rest get more suspicious? If so thats cool. That is more or less all I have done lately.

Right now I am in a moral delimah(sp). I Know I have to pick at least one side to either trust/support here based on the evidence... I mean you cant all three be mafia...

But I promise to actually review this so called Dybeck-Gem link I keep hearing you talk about. I didn't see it at first glance and so it requires a full on reread going back.. is 10 pages enough? Would it take more then that?

Unfortunately I have to be up early so it is bed time for me... *yawn*

Just don't lynch me till I get back tomorrow (That was a joke...)

dangit a post form Vollkan.. I guess bed can wait... post again in a second...

[Korlash]

If he was scum, I would have expected myself to be in a higher position than at least one of Elias and Korlash.

While that sounds a lot more arrogant then I think a town player should be I am going to assume it is because you know you are town...

Not much I can say about the links thing... especially the things Oman did... But I do want to mention two things:

a)

He maintains this bizarre Vollkan/shaft.ed/dybeck line for some posts

So you see I did have some kind of case on you yesterday, whether you think it was BS or not.

and
B)

THIS is extremely interesting and scummy as all hell.

Why? This was way back when I believed Orig to be most likely mafia and not the Vig/Sk... I thought we already went through this...

[Korlash]

Ok... Anyone else feeling some kind of Deja Vu going on here?... Anyone else feeling that? I know I am...

[Korlash]

You have never, EVER presented a case against me.

Actually my first... third? Anyways.. one of my first posts was me mentioning three separate occasions during the day you tipped my radar. That can be argued to have been a case.

But simple semantics aside, you have been on top of my list ever since those "Traps" of yours. Any playstyle that allows you to slip out of any "Bad play" simply by claiming it a trap is something I cannot condone. And while I may or may not have "repudiated all the earlier stuff from the vanilla debate" your post 1436 clearly shows you are still willing to hang me for that case. So either agree that I have dropped it or continually press it. I don't care which one. You just need to stop playing both sides...

And because I clearly cannot trust you I will do my own reread and find any case I brought against you yesterday. If I find one I suppose that will more or less make you my vote of the day.(Seeing as how you just plainly said I NEVER had one and that would be more or less a lie) But does that make it more likely Gem or Elais is your partner.. that one I may have to think about...

Anywho, Vote me or don't. It's up to you. I do not feel I have anything to explain. So I won't bother. I will just say Good night all! (Town only. I hope all the scum have evil bad nightmares!!!)

And

FoS: Vollkan

for thinking Bolding the "this close" makes any difference online... =D
(that was a joke... Yeah I know you didn't know that which is why I just told you. Yes I do think you are that slow. No I am not reading your mind. Yes you should go outside now.)

[Korlash]

Nope... Not until my reread...

Random ellipse to piss you off...

...


And this one too...

><...

[Korlash]

It is a scumtell. He is holding suspicion of me for arbitrary reasons and no substantive case. What do you think of this theory: If Korlash is scum, he and his partner were hoping that getting rid of shaft.ed would cause you (Gemelli) to attack me more. That might explain Korlash's baseless suspicion of me from the start of this day and his vague support for your case.

I need to say something before this goes to far because this happened to me in the last game I was in and it took me forever to get back out of it.

To me any list that I do not put the word "scum, lynch, or vote" on it is more of my suspicions list. To me, suspicious =/= scummy.

see, I label anyone whom I agree with a lot/ listen to their cases/ seem to sway me via their opinion, suspicious. I do this so that I will try to look at their things differently, maybe find ways to attack them, etc. etc. etc... If that person defends himself well I become more inclined to believe him/his case. And so by attacking/suspecting the person whom I most listen too I find I am less label to be swayed by weak case or attacks. And thus Gem and Vollkan (The two I most listen too/ agree with) take the top of my day 2 list.

At the same time I also find playstyles I do not argee with to be suspicious. Such as the "Trap" move you do.

So yes, I put you at my #1 for "arbitrary reasons and no substantive case." simply because I do not feel I need a case until I am ready to vote. I merely need suspicions so I can get a better read on things. (Such as the Elias case...)

Now believe me or don't. I will still be doing my reread tonight. I will still be commenting on the Elias/Gem things I see/ have been said. And I will continue to play the exact same way as I have been.

(I'm thinking next game I get stuff like this out earlier so as to prevent this from happening a third time XD)

But yeah more later.. WAIT! NO!

It is extremely common to have a godfather in three-scum groups. The fact we have a cop, a tracker and a vig suggests that the scum might have a godfather, or a mafia roleblocker. Hmm...what if Orig was RBed last night?

man two games in a row I hear Mafia RB.. weird... I need to look up these roles I think...

Anyways from what I keep hearing is people are linking Godfather to Lucienne and some sort of RB mafia thing... In this situation I find it impossible for Lucienne to be the Godfather and for Orig to have been RBed... See, The tracker(alyG) went after Lucienne and got no result. So that means she did not RB, or do any night killings. So either A) We have two other mafia or B) The other Mafia did both the RB and the Killing, which I believe is impossible. Or is it? Not sure as I have literally never heard of a mafia RB before...

So in other words Orig being RBed by mafia, and lucienne being the Godfather is only possible if we have 3 mafia...

Plus I find it more likely that if the scum had a RB they would have targeted AlyG.

this I can see... They target AlyG to RB.. and have Lucienne do the kill... That seems possible. But it puts a lot of faith in Orig doesn't it?

Still when I think about it that theory is possible... Then again it is possible that Lucienne isn't the Godfather, but someone else is. It is also possible there is no mafia RB and so Lucienne as the God father did not do the killing, the other one did...

Or that is my take on it.

[Korlash]

Um... Night lasted about a week... so technically she hasn't actually been gone that whole time...

[Korlash]

Ohh... still... She COULDN't have shown up during night...Well... Unless she was scum and she never showed up to talk to her partner... (Looks sideways at Vollkan0 Interesting...

So technically she has only been missing sense day 2 started.. so...

Sun- Nov 11- Mon Nov 12.. One day... more accurately 32 hours... I will not be against prodding the known lurker just in case she really is gone... But I still find it odd you count night as time she has been missing...

[Korlash]

Hey guys I just realized it's a Monday night o.O

I have stuff to do so I might not actually get to my reread tonight >< Sorry... No excuse tomorrow though I promise...

[Korlash]

(2) A strong argument for why another player is a MORE LIKELY candidate than Elias for being scum with Dybeck.

Um... Not to make myself the proverbial Sitting duck here but... I believe I have more evidence connecting me to Dybeck. Or that is what I saw when I scanned Vollkan's earlier posts.

Anyways I will be doing my reread tonight *woot* I figure I will try to outline all case I have ever used against Vollkan, if only to disprove the "NEVER" he used before... then comment on the Elias thing.. and maybe a quick snack... then insult Gem by calling him names >.> <.< (Kidding... jerk... =D)

[Korlash]

Korlash: In response to post 1453, I don't think anyone is suggesting that the mafia has both a Godfather AND a roleblocker. I was simply pointing out that there is a possibility that one of those roles exists on the mafia side.

Couldn't they have both through? is seems like a likely possibility if we also have a doc....

Also is there some other type of power role they could have?

[Korlash]

I read that as you saying that you didn't think it likely that we had both a Godfather and a mafia RB unless there are three mafia remaining in the game. What's made you change your mind?

No I said it was unlikely that Lucienne was the Godfather, and that the RB had blocked Orig. cause that would indicate three mafia and that would suck! But there is still other possibilities, the RB blocked someone else, Lucienne is not the Godfather, etc...

All I was saying in my original post is that if there IS a Godfather, the cop would have gotten an innocent result from investigating that player. The Godfather typically sends the mafia's night choices to the mod -- which mafioso will make the kill, and which player they are killing -- but sending in a choice to the mod wouldn't trigger the Tracker ability, would it?

Hmmm... Ok... what about this then... Vollkan says Lucienne hasn't posted in X amount of time... So how can she be the Godfather? Question I would like Vollkan to explain seeing as how he "Knows" Lucienne hasn't been around for so long... seems like something worth investigating.

Also, no I doubt sending in the thing to the mod would trigger it, however if the Godfather says he/she will do the killing/RB/whatever they do then I think that WOULD trigger it...

and yeah I read that, but do you guys think any of those are likely? Or more likely/just as likely as the RB?

[Korlash]

Ehhh I figured as much.. it just seemed like you all ran with the idea of a RB pretty quickly and didn't mention anything else... I thought it was a little weird...

How rare/common are the mafia power roles in these mini games?

[Korlash]

Fair enough...

OH OH I'll replace! i'll do it! Pick me pick me!!!!

(Anyone but adel.. anyone but adel... *crosses fingers*)

Also I hear the replacement thing is backed up anyways... so I don;t think it's gunna happen...

We should just lynch her and be done with it! =P Joke.. joking... Gem put the noose down.. that's a good boy...

[Korlash]

no... well more to your question's point yes, I have yet to finish my reread.. fell asleep yesterday.. that was odd.. today I was working on my managetorial stuff. Tomorrow I should be getting off early so I SHOULD be able to finish.

Besides last time I did it you took it way out of proportion. So no, I refuse your question until I finish actually making the list. Fair to you?

On to gem's thingy...

And no offense man... but:

Post 1443:

Something that occurred to me this morning as I struggled out of bed: we've identified three possible/likely power roles for town in this game (Tracker, Cop, Vig), as well as any other power roles that have yet to be revealed. If we only have three scum, is this a bit overpowered in favor of the town? Does this increase the possibility that there is a Godfather among the scum, or possibly even a scum power role?

You can say I am trying to look innocent all you want.. you brought it up... not me...

[Korlash]

Hey guys sorry I still haven't gotten to it... And FYI Vollkan insulting me won't get me to do it any faster.. just a heads up...

I was using my time to get through two other games for the last two days.

DONT REFERENCE ONGOING GAMES!

Man I feel so much less stressed now that I am not saving my neck in three games at once... whew...

So yeah... Again I cannot apologize enough for all this...

[Korlash]

Ok... I have finally done my long awaited, ever needed, and most dreaded read up of Day 2!

First off... My new "scumdar" More accurately termed "Suspiciondar"

1) Lucienne- I suspect her simply because all of day 2 she has not posted anything and just recently she comes in with a little "I'm still here but haven't read up yet" thing. Personally I feel her views is very much needed right now. Also i think it is dangerous for her to keep "lurking" like this.

2) AlyG- I cannot remember the last post I read from him... I would think he person everyone considers to be town would give his views/opinions about current events a bit more then he has been. I would like to hear his views on things also.

3) Vollkan- Note: I do not think Vollkan is scum. I too cannot fathom him and Dybeck being a scum pair. However I find players like Vollkan (People who base most or many of their attacks on people based on what they think "Scum should do/would do") tend to go overboard if they are not kept in line. So I find it necessary to list him high in my suspicions list even while I have no intention of Voting/lynching him.

4) Gem- I really don't knwo what to think about him. He has commented on all current discussions. He has laid ok cases sometimes. And he sounds almost as convincing as vollkan does most of the time. The fact he tried to bring up something about me "trying to play innocent" kinda got under my skin. But other then that I am only mildly suspicious because I think he is a strong player.

5) Elias- I think most of Vollkan's case relied on what Dybeck did and not so much what Elias himself did. Also I think the "links to Dybeck" case is better used against myself hen against him. And seeing as how I am town I tend to feel Elias is town too and Dybeck has just been trying to frame us up.

6) Orig- I am still operating under the impression he is the Sk. However his willingness to not kill last night means 1 of four things. He either is the vig, he is the sk who wants to look as much like a vig as possible, he is the Sk who got roleblocked or his target was doc protected, or he is mafia. No matter which is which I still find him the least of our worries ATM, and he is most likely going to be dealt with during the night sooner or later.

Note this is not my "scum list" It is the list of people I would like to hear more from or the people I am most likely to analyze very carefully what they say.

I cannot actually post a scum list I am afraid. Right now I am slightly biased because I have heard nothing from Lucienne... and so I would rank her very high just because of that, also as a method of self preservation I would rank Elias high too simply because I would rather he be attacked them me. And because I do not want to post a list that I do not fully believe in, or am not fully committed to, I will have to respectfully decline to post it ATM.

I believe once Lucienne has posted more and after we have debated your cases against me for a while I will be more likely to be able to give an accurate list. So for now I think we should move on with your cases against me, so I can hear your guy's side and I can give my own. And hopefully Lucienne will join us soon!

I very much hope that at least satisfies Vollkan for now because I do not want to argue with him over why I have not given my scumdar...

Anyways, on to my stuff! YAY I'M NOTICED!

That being said, I will now add to the Korlash case:
does anyone think the way that Korlash came into the game seemed a little suspicious? His first real post in the game, 1087 I think (4th actual post if youre using the parser) he makes absolutely NO mention of any cases on Dybeck, but simply comes into the game with all guns firing at Vollkan. Am I the only one who is reads this as a big fat distraction? He makes mention of Orig also, a smaller issue, but ignores Dybeck all the way up until his 11th post, post 1125. Thats a damn long time. And even then, he only mentions him as a possibility of being Vollkans second scumbuddy. He continues to hole this opinion for some time, without ever really backing it up. In his 48th post, 1267, he lists Dybeck as only 45% chance of being scum, despite considering him an almost certain third member of the scumteam for some time. In post 1279, suddenly Dybeck is listed as his top suspect (with me alongside). Wait, I thought a second ago you just werent completely certain on his claim, and had him at 45%? Also, in 55, 1310, suddenly shafted is rated near last on his LoS, and several players below Dybeck on his LoS he lists stronger reasons for suspecting them. In his 59th, 1334, he finally votes Dybeck, for being unhelpful. Wow. Thats all for now, but does anyone else see a completely unexplained shift over to Dybeck being #1 as the town began to feel that way?

I have already noted my feelings on Vollkan, as for how I began the game... I replaced into it at page... what? 42... Damn right i went after someone very hard. I wanted to come into this game as a strong voiced player and I wanted to help move things along. I saw a few things I didn't like and I mentioned them. As for the Vollkan partner thing, I gave my theories as who I felt his partners could be. The way I play, if I suspect someone I throwout names of who may or may not be their partner. However, I do not use that as the basis for hem being scum on their own. So while I may see a connection to someone I think is scum, I do not automatically list that player as scum themselves. Point of the matter is, the longer the day went, the less I liked Dybeck.

As for my shift over to dybeck.. DUH! Are you stupid? When the town keeps giving case after case of evidence against someone and he does not defend himself.. of course I am going to shift to him.. The more you guys show me he is scum, the more I believe it. I mean that is the whole point of this game. Player A gives evidence against player B. Player C supports it, and player D, seeing this, believe this, and adding it to his own suspicions, then ranks Player B accordingly.

I believe that more or less covers it.

I thought I saw something Gem asked me before too.. but other then the Roles thing I cannot find it... If you will be so kind as to point out anything you asked me before I would be glad to answer it. I just wanted to let you know I am not intentionally ignoring anything. Thanks in advance...

For now, I am eagerly awaiting Korlash's next post, containing scumdar and responses to the accusations levelled against him (bolded because people avoiding things pisses me off).

As much as i would love to piss you off right now... I think I more or less covered the big thing. If i missed anything please kindly enlighten me to it. If not... I eagerly await how you plan on condemning me today...

Well The more I think about the more I am coming to believe Elias is pushing my case simply to get the heat off himself. But I also realize today we all need to be looked over. I am actually looking forward to being in the limelight so I can clear whatever suspicions you have on me. I will continue to try and formulate an accurate scumdar but until we hear from Lucienne don;t hold your breath.

[Korlash]

I really don't like the way you worded this. Townies should be thinking of win condition first, self-preservation second. And there's no way you should be putting someone high on your suspectdar OR scumdar if you don't actually have a strong reason to believe they are Mafia. FoS: Korlash

I am thinking of the town here. If I am lynched, then that is one more town down. This gives Orig a greater incentive to NK. Meaning we could lose two more town tonight. And that is a loss. Now this is not ironclad what will happen. But I will fight tooth and nail to live today because I do not want us to lynch another town right now.

I figure he was just waiting for Korlash to show up. I'll post tomorrow with responses and such.

I pretty much thought this too. That is why I was not so surprised he hasn't posted...

I'll save you the trouble; you can argue with me instead

Ok, here we go!

That's great, but why couldn't you provide a scumdar as well? It doesn't have to be ironclad, and you don't have to be "committed" to it; feel free to annotate it all you like with caveats, rationale, and open questions. But it would be really helpful to see who's topping your current most-likely-to-be-mafia list.

No, the last time I made a scum list based solely on my person feelings Vollkan rammed it down my throat. Sure, I agree that is a great form of scum hunting and what not. But because of that I refuse to post any scumdar that implies vote/lynch candidates until I actually have reasons for it.

Um. That does beg the question, "why the heck are you preparing this list, then?" What are we supposed to do with this information if it doesn't reflect people you suspect to be scum?

*shrugs* Do whatever you want. Until I hear form Lucienne I won't be posting an actual scumdar. So sorry.

What Elias pointed out is that when you replaced in, there were two major bandwagons in place vs. Oman (yourself) and Dybeck. You state in 1071 that you're going to read up on those cases, so you were definitely aware that Dybeck was a main suspect. But your first major post in 1087 dives right into Vollkan; you don't say anything about Dybeck at all.

You respond a bit to the case against you in 1105, and keep going on about how Vollkan and shaft.ed look scummy (and defending yourself from various suspicions). But you don't mention Dybeck at all until 1163, and that's mostly because you want to hear him explain his vote on you, in spite of the fact that you've acknowledged that he is a major suspect. Elias calls that suspicious, and I'm inclined to agree.

Don't get me wrong, you seem like a nice enough guy, but nice guys can carry tommy guns in violin cases just as easily as the jerks.

Well my post 1071 and 1087 were posted before I had finished my reread. At the time, I still found Vollkan the most likely scum in my opinion. After playing the game with him for this long I realize most of the things I felt at the time I no longer feel the same way. I didn't say anything about Dybeck because when I first joined in I thought I had a bandwagon on me at the time. I only later foudn out i didn't and Dybeck did. Personally i did not see anything to comment on at the time, and when I finished my reread it all blended into his vote on me/ his defense at the time.

Unfortunately, I am very bad at multi tasking. And I really think I need to have a grasp on each player when we are this far along. And so when I first joined in I could only really focus on one player at a time, I picked Vollkan first, and then more or less moved on to Dybeck. Because of that I probably didn't say much about Dybeck at the time. Although I didn't say much about you, or Elias, or Lucienne, or what not either. Granted you were not at the time major suspects, I still saw no reason to stop focusing on Vollkan.

Oh and thanks... I actually carry my tommy gun in a tuba case... that way I have room to hide the bodies afterwards... *whistles*

Nope, I just wanted you to post (1) a scumdar, and (2) responses to Elias's issues along the lines of what I posted above. And you're going to make both of those things a priority in your next post, right?

Nope... I hate refusing your guy's requests over and over but I feel i need more from Lucienne right now.

[Korlash]

Woohoo! Yay for the Mod!

>.>
<.<

relevance?

None at all

[Korlash]

Fine...

Scum would probably be Elias and Gem.. You want reasons go screw yourself... But counting Lucienne, vollkan, AlyG, and Orig out of the picture I am left with them. Happy now?

[Korlash]

No idea... Didn;t I read somethign that a godfather is immune to ALL night actions? Wouldn't then that mean both the Cop would get innocent, and the tracker get no result?

[Korlash]

You missed my point. In your post, you said that you were undecided on Elias's alignment. But then you said that you would list him as a suspect in order to prevent your own lynch. THAT'S what I find dubious -- going after someone who you don't have a solid reason to believe is scum just to keep yourself from dying.

Other people have laid out good case (I don't agree with all of them) But they still appear to be good cases. So knowing I am town, And process of elimination. I find Elias's death highly more likely to garner a scum death then my own.

OK. "Does not play well with others" *scribble scribble*

Lolz...

It's OK.

Vote: Korlash

No hard feelings

None at all... I Have been going over just how much of an ass I would be if I hammered myself.. we still wouldn't lose... what we would learn? If I am proven town.. what does that make Elias? Or Gem for that matter/ Or lucienne? Or Vollkan?

Hmmm... But then I would be labeled an ass for a self-lynch... Hmm I proabbly wouldn't do it.. I'm too full of talk...

Given the responses from others, I dont think I need to post a response to Kor's rebuttal. That being said, I'd like a votecount

... O..k... That is not weird at all... But I accept it...

Like I said I woudl rather lynch Elias then me so

Vote: Elias

Oh and Vote count:

Korlash: 1 (Gem)
Elais: 1 (Korlash)

Fairly simple...

[Korlash]

... bad... I am not Vollkan... Stree PHAILS!

[Korlash]

No...

[Korlash]

dang computer... messed up again...

No...

unless you force Orig, AlyG, and even to a lesser extent Elias to post another scumdar... I see no reason why i should not wait... I have already told you I am biased on Elais and Lucienne. And that will create a false and meaningless Scumdar. Also it will give you more reason to attack me and it will just overall piss me off. I would rather self lynch just to end this then have to try and defend a false scumdar.

That is what I meant to say...

Plain and simple: I would rather die today to prove I am town, then have to deal with anymore crap from Vollkan. Sorry. But I am just too tired to have to try and defend a false scumdar. If you cannot accept that, fine vote me and I will hammer. At least then you won't have to deal with my crap tomorrow right

[Korlash]

* If Orig and Elias posted updated scumdars, would you post one? AlyG hasn't posted on MS at all in 11 days or so. If your issue is that you feel singled out, would you at least play ball if everyone was being asked to do the same thing?

Sure I was actually calculating numbers in my head today at work.. I think I have people in a sort of order. All I need is to find where I place Lucienne (and that is a major issue with me...)

So far I have:

Elias
Gem
Orig
Vollkan
AlyG

With Lucienne hovering in the top spot, but I could overlook lurkiness as "family emergency" and place her after Gem.

That is a semi-Scumdar that I pieced together at work today. So... Happy or not, there you go.

On a side note:

MOD:

[b/]

I have a friend of mine who is like me and is stupid enough to replace into long games. Want I should see if he would be willing to replace?

* Also, in your Elias-vote post, you didn't respond to the point I raised on you: specifically, that you have made inconsistent explanations for why you didn't look at Dybeck until late in the game. Did you have anything to say in response?

No. i really cannot say anything but the truth. i was a little bit overwhelmed with Vollkan and my replacement reread. I know its sketchy but that is what happened, or how i remembering it happening...

* If you ARE town, I can appreciate your frustration, but please don't hammer yourself. Suck it up and play the game! Convince us not to lynch you, or make a stronger case on another player! Don't put the town in a bad spot because you're getting frustrated dealing with our suspicions ... suspicions and rebuttals are what the game is all about, after all

I wasn't really going to hammer. I am not that much of an asshole. I wanted to se if Elias would put me at L-1 just to "take up my offer" I know, stupid right? But i figured it was worth a try.

The more I think about it, the more I think I would garner a vote from Orig, alyG, lucienne, or maybe Vollkan just for saying it. So I figured I better not continue with that plan... Yikes...

So yeah... Takes on replacement? i'll tell him to give you a pm or something...

[Korlash]

Hey... quick point out... Perhaps the mafia didn't kill Orig last night because they knew he wouldn't kill because we spent half the day telling him not too... Perhaps it is best to not keep reiterating it quite as much today...

Just a thought...

[Korlash]

Thank you for posting that. Just to be clear, is this a prioritized list of Mafia suspects, or anti-town players?

Like I said.. process of elimination leaves me with only two suspects, and so yeah. it is a list of "Mafia most likely" Lucienne is still an unknown, and so I have no idea where to put her yet...

It is sketchy, but you do get some points for neither trying to weasel out of it, nor for attacking me in response. Sadly I have to debit your account for calling me "Dybeck" in the quote.

What? prove he didn't say it

Seriously... I lost my Debit card.. will you take a check? I can pay you in Canadian monies... Heres a 100... that is about roughly.. 12 cents right...

And boy, do I hope that we don't really have two players AWOL at this point in the game

I count three... Lucienne, AlyG, and Orig...

[Korlash]

Well all the lists look almost identical... If you substitute names that is...

Me personally, I am half and half on the Nk thing. Like I said I don't want to talk about it a lot cause I don't want to give the mafia too much to go on. But Orig, Are you saying you would Nk if we mislynched? You know if you are wrong we lose right?

[Korlash]

Um... Well he is actually at 4 once you put Lucienne back in...

And because I tend to rank the Sk Higher then people I think are town. He is below all my unknowns but gets ranked higher then people I think are town.

Oh, and Korlash, could you please explain what happened to your case against me?

Do you mean my cases from yesterday? I started my reread and got bored. I don't think there is any reason to bring them back up. I would rather do what I had planned and just keep you in my suspicions so I can subsequently attack and analyze your future posts in greater detail. I don't believe I had a "Current" case on you other then saying I had "Past" cases on you.

I really see no point in making a "case" as you put it against you as it will seem even worse for me to just be attacking you. I also find it quite hard to believe you and Dybeck are both mafia together. So those two together give you the look of"Obvious town" in my mind.

As for the list thing... Man... People hate me don't they? T_T All I ever wanted was to be loved!!!!

[Korlash]

Fine put her at three then...

[Korlash]

Naw...

Elias
Gem
Lucienne
Orig
Vollkan
Korlash
AlyG



Yeah... I have to be weird like that...

>.>
<.<

=D

[Korlash]

Ahh you too huh? i had to single handedly put th truck away at work today. No different then any other delivery day other then it came a day early... So we were short staffed.. and i had to put it away, invoice it, AND prep stuff.. I know how you feel. My back is killing me.... Luckily all I have to do is make food tomorrow... Let's see... Instructions.. take out of box, put directly in toilet... What? o.O

[Korlash]

Well I suspect Elias over Gem because I think we can tell a lot more about Gem's alignment if we lynch Elias, then we can Elias's alignment if we lynch Gem. I could be wrong of course and if my thinking is flawed let me know. I explain it in greater detail later on.

As for scum buddies, yeah. Like I said for the millonethic time... They are the only two people I am left with after you told me to write Lucenne off as vanilla. So as of this second they HAVE to be the scum pair in my mind. But... I still don't think Lucienne is automatically vanilla cause it is all just speculation about what Shat.ed may or may not have implied at times.

Also, I think if Elias turns out scum, Gem is most likely his buddy. My big reasoning here: Earlier today Gem seemed to be afraid we were all going to jump on him for Advocating Dybeck. But after he sees Vollkan going after Elias, he goes after him hard, then when Vollkan switches to me, he quickly drops Elias and comes after me hard too, even places a vote on me. To me, this makes me think he had decided to bus his partner today in order to keep pressure off himself, then he switched to me because I was an easy town lynch. However, if Elias turns out town I am left at a crossroads. If that is the case then I can see Gem doing the same Self-Preservation thing I am known for. And in order to keep the discussion off himself he went along with the group. And if that is the case I am left with Lucienne. The only person I can even think to tie in with Lucienne is Orig and I know how bad that would blow over for me.

In short. I feel if we find out Elias's alignment it will give me at least a better scope on Lucienne. At the same time I feel if I am lynched then we are in the same exact place tomorrow. Suspecting Elias Gem and Lucienne.

Well that's my twelve cents...

[Korlash]

yeah you too pilot!

[Korlash]

Why not vote me now? seems if you are so sure I am scum that you don't feel the need to post, you might as well make it official and vote me.

[Korlash]

I'm sorry. I don;t have a lot of time right now... I really feel like I am going to pass out or throw up or something... blarg...

Quick questions:
1) "This was what I was referring to by*" < corrected right? It took me forever to figure out what you meant here. Just making sure I'm not mistaken...

2)

Now, I'm utterly gobsmacked by this, but Krap Logik has actually stumbled upon an excellent point.

.. gee... That kinda makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...

I'll see about commenting on the rest tomorrow... I have to be up early and go into work.. man it will be hell... Stupid early sales crap... *banghead*

[Korlash]

Anyways, if me and Gemelli both have eachother as number two, why should you be concerned with our link? Tomorrow one of us would be lynched anyways, so you'd get scum.

Perhaps... But you never know with the way Oig has been talking.. Let's say you and Gem are scum together. You guys lynch me, Mafia NK lets say Orig, he NKs Lucienne... Town loses. So we would not have a tomorrow. Personally I would very much like to hit scum today.

although I am not so worried about Orig NKing tonight actually. But you can never say for sure what someone will do right.


And that is my take on it...

[Korlash]

Why does it give orig a greater incentive to NK?

Like I said You can never tell for sure what someone will do. For all I know Orig could be the gambling type who would rather take a chance then be put at LYLO tomorrow. I admit "Greater Incentive" is not the exact right wording for this.

You mean you have no suspicions?

No, I mean if I made a list I would do it based soley off my suspicions and have no valid reasons behind it. Then I would have Vollkan over here going "Why did you rank me here, her here and him here? Answer now or I will vote you!" and I'll be like "WTF man..."

*Complete dramatization*

>.>
<.<

Korlash was really saving his butt with the Elias vote. Also - process of elimination - useful or a failure?

Pretty much. I still think we will find out more by Elias's affiliation then my own. But I guess I am a bit Biased here aren't I? XD

Process of Elimination is a failure as in order for it to work I had to count you in at vanilla.

and "writing off" of people.

The only people I have wrote off are you and Vollkan. Almost everyone else seems to have done the same to Vollkan and I was only giving you the benefit of the doubt until you posted more.

Anyways off to work...

[Korlash]

Woohoo! I'm first again! wait.. thats bad isn't it? *sad panda*

Well I have tomorrow off so tonight I guess i will be putting my two cents in again. I will proabbly say something really damning and be lynched for it but that is a risk I will have to take! ... After some food >.> <.<

[Korlash]

Oman dropped out before he got a chance to respond to my points, and I was not convinced by Korlash's attempts to rationalize the issues.

Fair enough. I can understand your whole "Sins of the father" thing with Oman and me. I cannot speak for him, but what he did cannot be ignored either... I will say, while I think he went about it badly, I believe I know why he acted like he did.

"I'm always worried about mafia RBs" to "gosh, Mafia RB? I need to look up these roles"

This same tactic just got me lynched in another game. I like the whole noob/idiot look I get so I push it as often as i can. As you see I clearly create a few contradictions in doing it. I have more or less scratched this play out of my book for later games. And I also admit it is a good piece of evidence. However my only defense is I have played this same "innocent" card as both town and scum. Take it how you will I suppose...

stating that he knew about the Dybeck bandwagon in 1071, and planned to comment on it, and then in 1518(?) stating "I didn't say anything about Dybeck because when I first joined in I thought I had a bandwagon on me at the time. I only later foudn out i didn't and Dybeck did.

I'm tired of trying to find a suitable answer for this. I figure i am best left with the truth, that I was in fact too busy with replacement issues at the time. I went after Dybeck as soon as I saw a reason too.

I voted him in 1182, why? because as a replacement(actually as a player in general) I wanted to find out WHY I was being voted. He then promptly claimed Cop. Meaning I then had to unvote him. So your case here is I did a full 100 posts without commenting on him then? Is that it?

And the "contradiction" cannot forget about that I suppose...

The fact that those two posts come back to back like that may be a slip on their parts. If both are scum, they NEED to start making a strong case on me or Lucienne (the only remaining viable suspects).

Like I would be dumb enough to let a slip happen with my "partner" if and when I am mafia. I may seem dumb, act like an idiot, and have the IQ of a buffalo on Crack but I know how to protect my allies. I suppose Elias is trying to bus you by saying it, and I just happened to call the truth. Or perhaps we have all be hoodwinked by Orig and Lucienne? Anything is possible I suppose... 'Cept for maybe Vollkan being scum...

Hopefully the above clears that up a little. All in all, I think you've raised some good points, and I hope you keep asking me questions until you've made up your mind on me one way or the other. I do encourage you to read through all of my contributions to the game to date, though -- from my admittedly biased perspective, I have tried my best to help the town after replacing into a bad situation. And I've tried to be as explicit as possible about my thinking as the game's proceeded.

No fair! He is a better player then me... Why does he get to use the excuse "I tried to help after replacing into a bad situation" and I get stuck with "a provably untrue statement" *Hides under bed and cries* T_T

[Korlash]

Um... One for me Vollkan, 3 for elias... Unless I am mistaken... Nice that you assumed it would be me...

I have some personal life crisis events right now. i will be posting back either tomorrow, or the next day.

sorry ><

[Korlash]

Um... Vollkan... What do you expect me to do? Claim doc? Mason? Sk? What? Are you seriously forgetting that whole big.. Korlash claimed for no reason thing we had ten weeks ago? I only see you asking me to claim as some weird trap thing and I am really afraid to say anything... I'm serious here... last time I "sorta claimed" I got my head chewed off.
Like I said, more tomorrow. We have the regional something vice somethings in for annual inspection, have to get to work at like 6 in the morning so it's off to bed.

[Korlash]

Well the only difference I see is your baiting me to see if I claim other then vanilla. After my "Velvety soft luscious and almost milky white silk claim" claiming anything BUT vanilla would, logically, put a bullseye on my back yes? Forgive me for being a bit skeptical to succumb to a claim right now.

Now, should you provide a reasonable explanation as to why my "claim" is urgent and has to be done now, I may find it in my heart to once again utter those words my avy so longs to say! Until then, only allusions will you get! *Nods*

Is allusions the right word here?

[Korlash]

Well, since I am no longer under the delusion that you are at 2 votes, there is no longer any reason for you to claim, at least for now.

For now, I would like Korlash to officially claim, even though he has been "claimed" for a long time now.

I hate to be a bore... but... why the sudden change of heart?

[Korlash]

Thats fair enough i think. But I hope you will indulge me in one more question as your constant traps have made me very paranoid.

Lets say, hypothetically, I am the Doc. Do you honestly feel there is reason enough for me to claim right now?

I have nothing against claiming, I will in my next post, but I would like to see what you say first.

[Korlash]

Ok.

I am a strawberry town! i live free and happy on a hill outside my house. Together me and my brothers once ate a full grown watermelon mason. It was delicious.

But enough about me...

[Korlash]

BTW: Means I claim Vanilla.

[Korlash]

... Don't take this too hard Gem. I understand you. I really do. But after all that a Gem/Lucienne pairing is sounding a whole lot more plausible.

But enough on that.

If your plan did not revolve around lynching a maybe town and a town *Thus two mislynches* I would think it was good too. And so from your perspective, where both players are unknown (Right? ) this plan seems a lot more reasonable then it will to either me or Elias (Right ). So, please pardon any future comments where I in someway doubt the benefit of this plan.

Next... i really see no reason why me and Elias should be linked together. I mean if I was going to bus someone I would not base it on process of elimination/self-survival. But this is too WIFOM and so I know it won't help.

I really hate how both Lucienne and AlyG are not here... And I also hate how I cannot remember the last time I saw Orig post... Come on guys...

[Korlash]

On what basis?

He says he wants us to lynch me then Elais or vica versa. We lose with two mislynches, and thus it is the perfect plan for a lucienne/Gem setup.

Maybe "highly likely" is an overstatement. But I find it notable that neither of them is taking the position of "if player X is scum, that means that either Gemelli or Lucienne is scum." They're both zeroing in on me specifically. It just looks to me like a concerted effort to move me into the #2 spot on the suspicion list.

Now you know why I wanted to hear from Lucienne. Her lack of activity hurts us here... Thus... we are more prone to go after you.

[Korlash]

Oh... Man that sucks... T_T'

[Korlash]

I don't follow you ... I'm more suspicious than Lucienne because I'm posting regularly, and she isn't? If you believe that her lack of activity is hurting the town, why the heck does that make you more inclined to go after me?

because I have things to go off of you. I can take what you say and apply my thining towards whether I think it comes from a scum or from a town. I can see a partnership between you and people you talk about. I can see if and when you ever "jump" on people unnecessarily. I can see your opinions and deduce if they are pro-town or anti-town.

I cannot with Lucienne. Because we have a strong possibility of being at LYLO tomorrow I cannot afford to only be suspicius of a lurker, or to let that affect my thinking of others.

Personally, my thinking is attacking a lurker gets the town nowhere. They do not answer and our time is wasted. Thus, I am "More prone" to go after an active player in order to get the proverbial "reactions".

i hope that answers yoru question...

[Korlash]

hey all just got home. Expect a read up and post later!

[Korlash]

Eek I got like halfway and was like "Hold the phone! No way I can do this in 45 minutes! O.o WTFBBQ!"

However I see Vollkan said he will vote me in like 24 hours... so... Jeeze... I don't have time to not post do I? Man... Damn you deadline, once again you have snuck up on me and kicked me in the shin then T-bagged me! Oh what a cruel game of Halo we play...

Anyway, please go back and review my posts from D2. I stayed pretty focused on Oman as a prime suspect from the moment I entered the game. And I kept after Korlash after he replaced in, though I treated him differently as he has a different posting style. If you look at the whole game, I am pretty damn sure that there's more evidence AGAINST the Gemelli/Korlash pairing in this thread than there is FOR it.

Hmmm... I mean scum would never focus on each other as a prime suspect... *rolls eyes* If I were scum I would so totally think you were too...

that is about all I have time for... weird... random quote ftw! Seriously... Don't hammer me until at least Friday so I can get my thoughts in first. Let me try to force a scum-pair evidence onto AlyG! =D *Joking...*

Perhaps jokes are not the best thing right now... *sighs*

[Korlash]

I'll do my best in the morning... ^^ At least I get to see Elias burn tonight! Orig your my hero! >.-

[Korlash]

Actually I have decided my post does not actually matter anymore. The way I see it, I will get lynched today and bam it's game over for me. Tomorrow the town lynches Orig, and then it's like.. 2: 1 and I could care less who wins anymore...

I will say this who ever has freaking saved Orig's ass the last two nights needs to be shot. I mean I am seriously under the impression the mafia have a doc or something...I mean the first time I just thought Oman had gotten RBed or something, but not twice.. I mean come on... So yeah... Watch out for that...

Anyways... GL town I guess... My vote would go for Elias being Orig's partner. I only say that because I am trying to survive and of course saying I think the guy who can hammer me is likely scum is kinda dumb... Besides that I am getting serious town vibes from Gem *Puppy eyes* He is sooo awesome... I <3 him sooo much...

>.>

So yeah... You guys have fun in LYLO... ^^'

Oh yeah,

Unvote:, Vote: Orig

That was a nice move making me claim again there Vollkan. I stared at the screen like... for 15 min going.. ok... I wana claim vig but that is kinda dumb at this point... blah blah blah...

Oh and FYI, Spurg.. Sorry about the NK way back when. Even though it was Oman that did it, I still feel like it was me

[Korlash]

Im not the vig I'm the freaking Sk... There is no vig... If there is then the mafia did not kill night one...

First of all, you pretend to be surprised that Orig was apparently protected, or that you were RBed twice. Your reasoning here is pitiful. It is now D3. There were 2 NKs on N1. How the heck could a vigging by yourself have failed if there were 2 NKs? The only way that would work is if there was mafia, SK and a vig. That's way overdoing the killing roles and means that if the game opened at 9:2:1, it would be possible for it to be reduced to 5:2:1 after just 1 mislynch.

um... Oman killed Spurg, mafia killed carrot... Did not fail night one... I failed last night in killing Orig... Yeah I think i somehow felt there has been three nights... Weird...

I had this whole thing planned from the start... I claim vig tomorrow, assuming I am still alive and assuming I failed in my kill on Orig yet again. I tired to leave a trail way back when where I supported the Vig a lot, while always trying to place Orig high on my lists. This way tomorrow, I could guarantee a mafia death. (either tonight or tomorrow) thus giving me more room to win. When I claimed just now this plan stuck in my mind thus giving me the thought I failed twice to kill Orig, and as i only remember doing it once I assumed Oman had passed another night.

Any pity points I hoped to win are now forgot, but oh well. Orig still dies tomorrow. You town just remember I gave you the chance to not be in lylo...

Secondly, you were on the dybeck lynch wagon. He was the claimed cop. If you were vig, you would KNOW Orig to be mafia. Thus, you would know that dybeck could not be mafia (because he had been so fervent on Orig to the point of claiming cop and risking himself - which would out two scum). Thus, it would make no sense for you to sit in silence and let the cop be lynched.

Sk man... Cop death = good thing... thank you and good night...

Liked how it worked out though... Cop dead and a mafia lynch.. nice... Good job on that one Orig... As I assume you once again made the kill seeing as how I somehow got blocked... doc I tell you... stupid...

Fifth, you and Oman should have been fighting tooth and nail against Orig.

Dude... Come on.. and out myself? are you nuts? I wanted to just kill him at night, as I feel Oman did too. Why bother? man... I thought you were a better player then this... Oh wait.. You thought I meant Vig.. ok... Never mind... That is my bad then...

Sixth, your scenario requires dybeck and Orig to be partners.

More likely then you and Dybeck that is for sure... But hey, what can i say? it is what it is... Perhaps that was Dybecks plan the entie time, either gain fame by looking like a good cop, saving his partner, or outing the real cop. Kinda win-semi win- win.

On balance I am definitely more inclined to believe Orig than you. Thus, my vote remains where it is.

Fine with me. I'm really hoping you guys lose in the second LYLO you come too as I will just laugh in your faces...

I'll do my best in the morning... ^^ At least I get to see Elias burn tonight! Orig your my hero! >.-

Part joke, part trying to get the RB off my ass should that be the case. Trying to throw my "support for Orig" in just in case I get my chance to kill him tonight...

[Korlash]

Fine with me then..

Unvote:, Vote Korlash

[b/]

Good game suckers. Good luck in LYLO.

Also Vollkan I find it odd you would say this:


"Moreover, I don't even know if you would be stupid enough to concoct such an idiotic plan. Outing yourself as the SK = suicide; it doesn't make it any more likely you would win. In fact, it makes it less likely since you've gone from an unknown "SK" (note the inverted commas) to a known.
"

When i seem o remember a time when you suggested the SK out themselves... Maybe it was Gem but I am fairly sure it was you... I may just go on a scavenger hunt to find out...

Anyways, good luck to Orig's partner. All I can say...

And when AlyG tracked him, why didn't he claim RB instead of Vig (thereby painting a target on himself for the SK)?

I'm telling you they have a doc... Either that or our doc is pretty stupid...

[Korlash]

ha ha ha ha ha ha...

Ahhh... i love it when a plan comes together... i'll see you in the deadzone tomorrow Orig... Didn't actually see you being dumb enough to kill yourself off like that but oh well... I suppose getting rid of the Sk and a towny was worth it eh?

Good luck town, you will need it...

[Korlash]

No Orig.. you need to kill... kill... Kill... Um... Kill Vollkan... Why not he has to be scum with Dybeck... No wait... kill gem! He needs to die cause he is scum... No kill Lucienne.. lurkers = scum!.. no Kill Elias... he is obviously your scum partner... Or kill yourself as you are scum...

[Korlash]

No your crazy talk...

[Korlash]

Well i still think I was awesome in Narrowing the cop down... kinda hate myself for thinking Volkan was a doc... stupid not killing AlyG when I could...

*grrs*

And this celebrates my first loss... let's all have a moment of silence...


<.<

>.>

Well that was a waste of my time...

ABR, why me last night over alyg/spurgistan? Just curious.

I'm wondering that myself... I was planning on killing vollkan... Interesting choice...

[Korlash]

*nods* I was worried about that night ... what was it... 2... Ended up having to hope Orig would keep his word and had to RB alyG instead. Worked out I think...