Micro 729: C-C9 Mafia | Game Over

[Gorkington]

vote: mykonian

designated day one quicklynch wagon.

[Gorkington]

im not sure if you should talk about the breaking strategy if you rolled scum this game chamber.

[Gorkington]

edo gets to be my FIRST TOWNREAD.

[Gorkington]

=D

the somethingsmart-tell?

[Gorkington]

rude.

[Gorkington]

oh i misread what edo did.
nvm.

[Gorkington]

what exactly is your expectation of my earlygame bella?
because the only thing i'll concede is that im trying not to goof around as much.

[Gorkington]

i really feel like you of all people should understand why i feel like being more serious in this game.
):<

[Gorkington]

VOTE: realeo
him being all concerned about a page one quicklynch on myko and then not unvoting after edo revoted with him makes that initial sentiment seem really fake.

trying to parse the more dense conversations right now, but this stood out to me really hard.

[Gorkington]

It just didn't feel relaxed, but ehhh.

thats a little fair.
im on a good kind of edge atm though.

I think it might have been a tell back in the day, which creates some wifom if Chamber did it because he didnt care or he thought he could get away with it

i think if chamber is scum here he did this more because he had an expectation of having to because we talked about the setup briefly before the game started and had talked about this potential breaking strategy.

i can confirm that we didnt really come to any kind of serious conclusion, but it did genuinely seem kind of broken.

im kind of in a place where i dont want to worry too much it too much on d1 (on a level of i want to actually play a game of dayplay vs nightplay), but that we should 100% be using hypoclaims on d2 if both cops are alive and unclaimed.

If you are town and you have this in the back of your mind, you'd first let people scumhunt, only to drop this bomb on them week two, introduce new thoughts, shake people up, and have a bunch of info to go off further into the game. I think Chamber town would have taken that extra chance to catch scum without a seconds hesitation.

this seems kind of like an idealized version of what a person is actually like.

what you meant/b]

I shouldn't post when this tired.

(;

Gork ruined a bit of my fun

its what im here for!

Also chamber is the real scum here. Where's your RVS vote.

why didnt you RVS or make a real vote here?
whatre your thoughts on realeo right now beyond just you thinking he'll be confident if hes scum?
are you still thinking chamber is scum?
it kind of looks like youre more confident about edo seeming off, but youre not voting there.

[Gorkington]

He's sorry about... what exactly? This makes me feel that I'm being buddied now already just because there's a wagon on me

edo's apology doesnt read like buddying.
it reads more like frustration.

[Gorkington]

To have this question asked.

pooh pooh!

Haven't really noticed a post of his either way.

care to notice them now?
does him not unvoting you in spite of finding l-1 super duper scary mean nothing to you?

If I were to tunnel I'd say his questions are a bit pointless and don't say so much about himself on top of what I talked about before

can you point at specific questions
and point at the specific points youve already made that you feel are good?

The apology was unnecessary

im not sure if this is a language thing
but its common to say "sorry!" in a reflexive, frustrated kind of way.
kind of like if someone prickled at you saying something and you responded with "well, sorry!"
not necessarily sarcastic, more like.. "calm down okay, i didnt mean what you thought i said and im sorry that this was interpreted this way",
rather than "hey friend lets be friends i am sorry about this"
does that make sense?
or is that also the way you were interpreting it and you think that scum is more likely to apologize for you misinterpreting because he should think that youre scum twisting his meaning?

[Gorkington]

technically in this case its the other way around:

"calm down okay, you didnt mean what i thought you said and im sorry that this was interpreted this way"

but the context still more or less stands, no?

[Gorkington]

realeo how would you describe the difference between your scumgame and your towngame?

[Gorkington]

do you have any reads yet?

[Gorkington]

@realeo

, whenabouts can we expect you to start parsing people in the game vs giving them leeway because its early on in the game?
you cant really excuse analyzing the conversations happening after page 2 because its pretty clearly not based on rvs.
if chamber is poking at you wondering why you arent scumhunting and your response is that "well i cant scumhunt rvs" then thats kind of a lame excuse isnt it?

[Gorkington]

I think calling Gork scum early is funny.

im really sad that i didnt realize that this is what you were doing.
):

[Gorkington]

For this game, however, I genuinely don't think anything that another players pointed out is noteworthy and I have lost my momentum to make anything note worthy.

do you think there is value in trying to poke people or exaggerate your feelings on something to try to get a further reaction?
are you someone who usually gets bothered for not being meaningfully involved in the earlygame?
because you trying to be a passive player who analyzes things strikes me as something that people would typically find scummy.

[Gorkington]

You would mistaken a genuine human reaction for something. People can be genuinely pissed off IRL, you know.

oddly enough, i am aware that people can be genuinely pissed off IRL.
im interested to see what you'll call scummy this game if you actually believe this.

[Gorkington]

this conversation seems like its going in boring directions.

[Gorkington]

seems kind of straightforward to me.
myko is saying he isnt looking for a scumteam right now.
nothing in your 2-3 posts would indicate that you are or are not scum with chamber, which makes your questioning seem pretty pointless to me.

[Gorkington]

tenshii am i or am i not scum with btd
this is of utmost importance and i will withold all other thoughts on the game until you address this.

[Gorkington]

thats very kind of you.

i hope youll consider holding it for me a little while longer. ive got some stuff to take care of first before i can decide if i want it or not.

[Gorkington]

hows the distancing going guys?

[Gorkington]

Even gork who either buddied me or actually is town is being lazy.

if you think it was me buddying you there you have a very strange perspective of things.

im also not being lazy by not voting tenshii.
its not exactly difficult for me to type out tags and a person's name.

[Gorkington]

strongly considering it.
i'll let you know on page 10.

[Gorkington]

myko why do you seem so on edge

[Gorkington]

oh it looks like myko's only got 2 votes now
i should fix this

vote: myko

[Gorkington]

So, do you want to talk about Tenshii's vote? I think there's some interesting parts to that post, not just related to his vote.

okay myko lets talk.
what are the interesting parts of his last post that you wanted to talk about?
youre still voting him so im assuming you still find him scummy, you probably should be outlining why. especially since you apparently have so many good options for people to vote right now.

did you really think that tenshii had nothing going on behind the scenes with his original few posts?

[Gorkington]

it sounds like tenshii is pretty familiar with hypoclaiming.
it comes across as much more likely that hes just pointing out what he sees as exploitable aspects to a strategy that he thinks is weaker than playing the game in a straightforward manner?

[Gorkington]

like, what would have been the town way to go about that?
would town him have gone through all of the pros and cons of what town would do vs scum would do? why is it not just him taking a step back and thinking "what will scum do to fuck with whats going on?"?
are you actually confident that scum is more likely to do that than town or are you just spitballing here?

[Gorkington]

i mean, if we're going by unnatural, i feel like most of your posts feel kind of unnatural
youre getting a little bit of a botd until i can metadive and get a better feel for your towngame, but it feels like youre stretching so hard with every post to get to a conclusion.
and im also kind of struggling to hear your voice in your posts which is also not great.
:/

in terms of tenshii, like, okay?
i just think its a really big stretch, and its kind of uncomfortable that you think it should be obvious or convincing to a serious degree.
have you ever caught someone on a similar angle before?
=============================================

also ive been thinking more about how good no lynch is,
and im not as sure it would be worth it.

considering 9 players, 2 scum, scum has a pool of 7 to shoot from, scum can shoot the cop, scum can shoot the cop's target, cops could both target the same person.

with only 9 people i dont think the benefits of no lynching and potentially avoiding lynching a cop are worth the very slight odds of a hypoclaim actually working out in the off chance that we dont lose a cop and both cops get results on living people. we're also trading away a day one lynch which is one of town's best weapons, especially being able to go back and see how people voted and why.

it doesnt really seem like its that gamebreaking of a strategy when the playerlist is so small and copshit is so likely to get messed with.
i think we're better off trying our best to read people and lynch people and hopefully 1-2 cop results along the way will give us something extra to work with.
ie: if we lynch scum today, we've basically got this in the bag and im cocky and think we can do it, so.
(and we should probably be hypoclaiming if we lynch scum today, or full on claiming if we lose a cop? i think?)

if im being stupid here people can hit me but i feel semi-justified in going about my business of getting people murdered on d1 atm

[Gorkington]

benefit of the doubt.
cant keep up with the millenial slang can you dad?
p-edit: wow.

[Gorkington]

i always deserve town credits.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: Mykonian

[Gorkington]

see myko part of the problem is that i feel like you dont actually believe anything youre pushing.
the jumping from person to person while also pushing a level of conviction there feels weird and then these people dont do anything to alleviate your read on them and your response is to fold to pressure and move on to someone else.
it really just kind of feels like youre searching for something that sticks more than actually trying to find scum here.
:/

[Gorkington]

can you rank your scumreads? the ones youre most confident in to the least.

[Gorkington]

UNVOTE:
my vote is for sale
i want to hear some good offers for it

[Gorkington]

im looking for a wide variety of offers before i sell.
if i act too soon i could get less than what my vote is worth!!
):

[Gorkington]

it can be hard to keep up in this current meta.

[Gorkington]

he was fine when he started and now he isnt here.
pretty big bummer.

[Gorkington]

if youre upset about us not doing the no lynch strategy we could lynch you so that you dont have to look at the game anymore?

[Gorkington]

omg right sorry its that i havent read anything thats making me make the decisions im making. thanks for informing me of my mistake.

[Gorkington]

i remember a game when someone told me to do something and we did the thing and then bad things happened.
you should probably read that game btd.

[Gorkington]

except the hypoclaims arent necessarily useful if cops target the same person, or if a cop dies or if a cop target dies or if a cop target dies the night after. youre also taking away town's strongest tool in the game by not lynching twice in a row. if you want me to consider doing that put the fucking math in and prove to me that its actually WAY BETTER/actually broken because from where im standing if we lynch scum on d1 its actually way more broken for this setup than no lynching and hoping that things work out ideally which they probably wont.

[Gorkington]

like dont come in here like a fucking elitist telling me what i should or shouldnt do when youre a) not convincing and b) arent even proving why its broken. dont tell me that because in one game you got ignored you somehow suddenly become worth listening to. i really cant be fucked to prove your own value as a player. convince me that i should be going with no lynch hypoclaiming. dont tell me that i should listen to you just because. because i wont.

[Gorkington]

Either way, we are No Lynching today and tomorrow.

[Gorkington]

its putting the power of both of those deaths into scum's hands.

[Gorkington]

@chamber

can you skim myko in these and tell me what you think?
viewtopic.php?f=52&t=64215
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=69509

[Gorkington]

can you like.. briefly reference what you feel is similar play or different play from his town/scumgame?
i thought the verbosity of the towngame/overreachy thoughts looked similar to here and his scumgame looked a lot more limp.

[Gorkington]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gorkington]

This is essentially asking "Do you think you are being scummy?" The question doesn't help figure out alignment and instead comes off to me as trying to put shade on the post.

it doesnt seem like youre trying very hard to seriously parse chamber from this.
have you read his whole ISO?
because this really isnt what happened here.

[Gorkington]

this is the gorkshow.
you are just a participant in me running the gorkshow.
get used to it.

[Gorkington]

i would need a lot more convincing to lynch chamber today.

youre telling me hes obscure and im telling you thats probably the least compelling evidence you could throw at my face for him being scum.
theres a difference between having a positive outlook on someone and defending someone against attacks you feel are unfair.
i would defend nullreads if i think the pushes on them suck. it doesnt strike me as unlikely that chamber would too.

[Gorkington]

VOTE: tenshii
okay i think we should lynch tenshii while hes on VLA so he cant defend himself.

[Gorkington]

theres no where in those posts that chamber calls him townie.

[Gorkington]

myko you should stop overselling your reads if youre town here.

because the reasoning youre pushing is consistently lukewarm at best and dishonest at worst and it leaves me wondering how you could possibly be this confident that someone is scum from what youre pushing.

pushing stuff like "chamber is buddying btd" isnt really compelling because chamber doesnt really have any reason to buddy btd. btd isnt a threat in this game. you could argue that zito is buddying me right now, but i dont really think that buddying is a great general tell?

like, you could argue that chamber is whiteknighting btd to generate content, i could at least understand where youre coming from on that. but this buddying angle just.. sucks?

p-edit: youre comparing him defending a nullread against attacks he perceives as bad (by people hes generally scumreading?) and poking him to try to get him to generate content that isnt theorycrafting vs him talking about people who are scumreading him and poking him. the difference is pretty clearly contextual and im pretty sure you should understand that difference.

[Gorkington]

btd has theorycrafted and thats it.

tenshii has been calling chamber scum every post and has been pushing it kind of awkwardly/badly.
youve been calling chamber scum every post and have been kind of pushing it in a kind of unfair way.

its not really shocking to me that the treatment you two get vs btd is different.
i imagine if someone made a bad push on me or zito right now, chamber would probably also respond by picking at it.

[Gorkington]

Not a single word is said about it by chamber when I asked repeated, he posts about btd, but avoids the critical bit time after time

[quote="mykonian"[Only if he believes your particular brand (mind you, terribly oldfashioned, texas justice/assassins in the palace inspired), and btd is a newbie. You could happily play the nightgame similar and still actually discuss the game if you thought that cops were less likely to give themselves away than scum, something which is way more natural to me. The only discussion of the actual game at hand that btd has done, is defending himself by discussing you.

And this specific choice of topic doesn't bother you at all.[/quote]his response to this was that he didnt understand what you meant.

I'm bothered that he doesn't discuss people in the game. You aren't, you applaud that he doesn't (or at least this I infer). you are wrong, but whatever. However, he doesnt follow this through: he does discuss one interaction, a breach of your intended strategy. Now why would he do that... Well he discusses you and defends you that you were supposed to talk theory: the very thing he himself is being attacked on by Zito.

You cannot be oblivious to the ulterior motive, it should stick out to you like a sore thumb as he deviates from what you would consider ideal play.

like just because something stands out to you, doesnt mean it does to anyone else?
if you made this post at me, i would probably have missed your so-called "smoking gun" that youre now claiming that chamber is ignoring intentionally because its apparently damning for both of them?
its just such an abstract angle to be pushing to say that hes scum.
are you saying him and btd are scum together and chamber is trying to avoid what you think should be an obvious scumtell by btd that he agreed with chamber because it allowed him to defend himself?
or are you saying that chamber is scum on his own because he didnt address you saying that?
or are you saying that btd is scum on his own because he asserted you were scummier than chamber because it was self-serving?
or are you just saying that both of them are scummy for being self-serving with what they chose to engage here?

why is this so unbelievably likely to you to be coming from scum?
i just dont get it?
like this is the sort of thing that MAYBE means something, but how in the world could you be confident about it when there are so many factors that could be at play here? so many different possibilities for why someone chooses to act on something? especially with someone who is so intentionally obscure with his thought process.
it really just reads like youre picking at the slightest thing and blowing it up into something bigger than it actually is and its kind of frustrating?

[Gorkington]

oh god formatting why.

[Gorkington]

like i really struggle to believe that you dont understand that context matters with how people react to certain players and in this case OMGUS is clearly a thing and OMGUS is not something AI at all.

[Gorkington]

its mostly myko's fault for creating such a complex and inaccessible set of conditions for his super confident damning reads on chamber/btd
while also expecting that it should be obvious to anyone else following along. :/

[Gorkington]

it sounded like he didnt get it?
ie: he said he didnt get it?

youre acting like chamber poking at YOUR PUSH. YOURS. AS IN YOU. as in the person he thinks is scum. on someone. is going to get the same terms of parsing as someone who comes in, calls chamber scum a bunch for weak reasons and then says hes not going to be around anymore. sorry. your context is wrong.

[Gorkington]

do you think im calling chamber town right now?

[Gorkington]

quilford is third person now?

[Gorkington]

gorkington smash

[Gorkington]

if myko is scum realeo is a great possible scumbud.

[Gorkington]

i promise to stop posting.

[Gorkington]

if you think people here are too good to be caught by obvious means, why are you so confident that you are good enough to catch them on little things?

[Gorkington]

but zito.
sweet.
delicious.
flashwagon.

[Gorkington]

i suspect that with a deadline crunch a mykowagon will happen.

[Gorkington]

day one is the best day to take your time.
if i still think tenshii is an unknown in the game by end of d1 i wont be sad if he gets lynched.
i think its healthy to use time if its going to get used effectively and im not particularly worried about dumb useless noise in this game.

[Gorkington]

nope.

i do think that a second wind is coming for this game though.
tenshii wagon could be a good start for that, especially if scum feels comfortable right now.

[Gorkington]

i suspect that with a deadline crunch a mykowagon will happen.

Yup. What are you going to do about it?

are you expecting that i want that to not be the case?
i still dont really think youre town.

cheet is letting things happen to him and is ok with it. He shouldn't be.

what does this mean?

Mykonwagon looks like old news.

do you want it to be old news? or are you still liking your vote there?

Man Realeo I'm feeling so much pressure right now I'm squeezing diamonds out of my ass this is amazing.

i imagine btd would feel similarly if he were here right now.

In other news, @town we ain't winning this if we don't start getting some participation soon just FYI.

two of the ??? slots are VLA and should be back tomorrow.

[Gorkington]

i) i actually think those last minute votes are easier to parse.

ii) youre also being pretty blatantly obtuse about what i want to do right now.
every time you make these "grrrr wow im so mad at you gork"-posts for shitty reasons it feels like youre just redirecting anger at me for thinking youre scum.

[Gorkington]

Literally what makes you scumread me is that I try to scumhunt, explain every move along the way twice, while you voteparked and lurked. Fuck that.

oh yeah true this is a good summary of how both of us are playing this game.

[Gorkington]

myko the honest hard truth is that i stopped voting you because i wasnt getting anything from anything you were saying in response to what i was doing other than noise, because the responses you gave and the pushes youre making are just outright noise to me.

theres literally nothing about your chamber push that resonates with me.
and theres a big part of me thats hoping that youre just scum and are struggling to push a case on someone that doesnt come across as really fake.

i started voting elsewhere because i figured maybe, just maybe i could get something else from this game other than "myko injects more and more not really useful noise into the game that i cant really read".
and i realized just yesterday that tenshii is VLA
and ive been busy
and ive been not in the best state of mind.

so if you want to fuck with me and give me shit for not being the most active and hardcore player in the game for 2-3 days, by all means, come the fuck at me, but the end result is probably going to be me making you not alive in this game anymore.

[Gorkington]

k if myko is town i dont even care anymore
VOTE: myko

[Gorkington]

it is pretty funny how terrible that vote was!

[Gorkington]

do explain your vote myko.
because youre literally about to get lynched if your explanation doesnt convince me that im scum.

[Gorkington]

k yeah.

prepare your will and testament.

[Gorkington]

i started voting elsewhere because i figured maybe, just maybe i could get something else from this game other than "myko injects more and more not really useful noise into the game that i cant really read".
and i realized just yesterday that tenshii is VLA
and ive been busy
and ive been not in the best state of mind.

like do you think people cant read the post you lifted that from?

[Gorkington]

free townread to the person who gives intent

[Gorkington]

so basically everyone is scum.

[Gorkington]

lmao fuck off myko.
i literally explained that im in a bad way right now and have been busy.
how you can still push this dumb as fuck angle of me lurking on a tenshii vote is beyond me

[Gorkington]

like, you take one out of three reasons for me potentially coming across as lurky, push it as though its the entire reason for me being relatively inactive and then when i point this out you still push it?
thats fucking ridiculous.

[Gorkington]

even get upset that I dare argue that you should join a wagon

what wagon
what vote should i have made?
on chamber?
who im townreading?

i didnt realize that tenshii was vla, otherwise maybe i would have voted somewhere else, but literally the only other vote i can think of that i would remotely have been happy with at the time would have been on zito.
and even then my scumread on you eclipses my reads on tenshii/zito tenfold
is it really so shocking that im having a hard time pushing anywhere else when im so stuck on how hard to believe your play is this game, when i have had less free time this week because ive been busy and most of the biggest question marks are either VLA or inactive other than zito?

maybe a zito vote would have been better.
to be quite honest i really wasnt thinking that hard about it.
hence why i didnt check whether my vote was on someone here or not.

its shit like this that makes it so fucking hard for me to believe youre seriously trying to parse anything right now.

[Gorkington]

quilford no pressure but please be my shining star right now
if you feel that way about myko can you word at me why

[Gorkington]

lmao fuck off myko.
i literally explained that im in a bad way right now and have been busy.
how you can still push this dumb as fuck angle of me lurking on a tenshii vote is beyond me

i understand why i was upset when i was making this post
but it doesnt really excuse me being a shitter.

its also pretty lame to bring up out of game stuff as justification for me not playing at 100% in this game.

even if i think you could be scum twisting things to an agenda that doesnt justify me being an ass.
so.
sorry.
will try to do better from here.

[Gorkington]

i guess i thought better of my intentions when i voted you.

realistically i guess it was more a lame attempt to get myself out of just focusing on myko.

[Gorkington]

i dont really know yet?

[Gorkington]

i probably need to sit and reread things and its probably not happening tonight.

until im reinvested im probably not going to be particularly useful.

[Gorkington]

i suppose this is a bad time to mention i've been kinda cooling a bit on a myko lynch lol

vote: quilford

this kind of feels like having your cake and eating it too.
especially with the follow-up.

i also feel like you would be a little bit stronger on the catch-up than this as town?

[Gorkington]

why?

[Gorkington]

is it luv?

[Gorkington]

The part where you create a false dichotomy between me and myko?

do you think thats something that town doesnt have a tendency to do?
or is there something specific about the way hes presenting this that you dont like? seems kind of easy to dismiss all of what hes saying as just problematic on the basis of it being a dichotomy, especially since it could just be a feeling.

[Gorkington]

@Mars - Yes, I think one is scum, more likely myko.

can you talk a little more about where your head at is on myko?
why specifically do you feel like hes more likely scum than not?
is it literally just wagon momentum?

I'm not really the kind of player who stifles his doubts as town.

if you were having doubts why not unvote or try to poke at things more?
youre not really giving me the impression of someone who feels worried and it kind of makes me feel like the thought was entirely throwaway in a weird way?

a bunch of "seedy" players have come off vla and have done some other stuff.
do you have updated thoughts on them?
can you rank them from most "seedy" to least "seedy"?

[Gorkington]

realize that town on town attacks happen all of the time, and that it's a very convenient thing to create false dichotomies between them

do you never get that feeling that an interaction between two slots is weird in a way that makes you feel like theres scum in one of the two slots?
even if it can be town on town, that doesnt detract from the feeling you might get if that makes sense?
i feel like this isnt a particularly good point (especially since ive played towngames recently where i had similar thoughts).

Finally I feel like if he were reading the game for the first time in 2 days he'd have been more likely to quote a post he found interesting, or respond to a specific point. His summation suggests hes been keeping up the whole time but just not posting. I think passive observation like that is also a scum tell.

this is kind of resonant though.

Also chamber doesn't like to vote early and often, which I'm sure he'll say before I can actually post this.

youve played with chamber before then based on this yes?
can you talk a little about why youre feeling like his play is weirding you out?

Unless BTD comes up with his numbers and reads in his next post, I'd be fine compromising there. I kinda want a flip more than anything else at the moment, particularly in chamber/myko to get that sorted out.

it sounded like BTD was like.. one of your strongest townreads? can you talk about why youre okay with this now? are you really that apathetic with the gamestate?

Anybody who thinks BTD is scum looks bad for it in my eyes. I don't see scum motivation for what he's doing when he's continually receiving flack for it. If he was scum, he would've dropped it already.

mars mentioned that BTD's scumgame is equally theorycraft-focused, does that change your feelings about his slot in general?
if its something that hes comfortable with doing as scum, would he abandon it under a little pressure?

[Gorkington]

last quote probably isnt worth addressing tbh @edo.

[Gorkington]

would rather talk more about this once ive poked edos a little more tbh.

[Gorkington]

btd if youre town here you need to get your shit together.
im not particularly inclined to defend you if you promise shit and arent following through on it, especially when the stuff youve been promising for ages is the same stuff youre using as an excuse to not actually scumhunt.

[Gorkington]

actually lets make this into a game because games are fun!
its called "btd if you make one more post saying "oh man these numbers are looking good" without actually posting the numbers and without actually pushing any reads then you get to die"-the-game.
sounds fun right?

[Gorkington]

Busy day, sorry. Be here tomorrow

i cannot forgive you. especially since you have outstanding questions to answer from me and my questions are frankly more important than your life.

I'm willing to one up this. I don't want to see one or the other at this point. I want both.

show-off.

[Gorkington]

ive had strong townreads a few times during the game, not so much at the moment.
i can go over some generalities of townreads ive had over the course of the game if you want?

[Gorkington]

i can give added oomph by making him dead if his next post sucks.

[Gorkington]

I would become the clear influential Town voice

lol

[Gorkington]

btd is scumChamber your only read right now?

[Gorkington]

are you actually confident that btd is scum here or is this just on principle of him being annoying?

[Gorkington]

we could no lynch and if a cop dies we can lynch him and if he flips town then its at least hilarious?

[Gorkington]

ive always wanted to let someone's dreams play out, crash and then burn horribly.

[Gorkington]

i am ready for the sweet delicious tears.

[Gorkington]

can i be annoyed with him and not vote him?

[Gorkington]

shes saying that she doesnt think him being lazy with his reads is particularly AI.

[Gorkington]

chamber
does it make you uncomfortable how much it seems like myko wants this?

[Gorkington]

goddamnit cheet. Can you not.

i dont think you understand the point of my question.

Hadn't crossed my mind, still doesn't bother me now that it has prompted by you.

can you talk about why?

[Gorkington]

are you sure he wont just spend the rest of the game complaining about people ignoring him? even if we lynch scum?

[Gorkington]

@quil, i liked your big catch-up post-response-thing. i probably wouldnt lynch you today if that makes you feel better.

[Gorkington]

keep being town then.
(:

[Gorkington]

quil can you hit my face with reasons why youre in love with your sudden tenshii vote that you think would make me also fall in love with it? bonus points for condensed reasons that arent that youre poeing the rest of the playerlist as town unless you can create convincing towncases on everyone else thats alive and doing things

p-edit: its a mix of barking and har like laughing. harkharkhark.

[Gorkington]

is someone saying my name?

[Gorkington]

hark the herald angels sing glory to the newborn king. peace on earth and mercy mild god and sinners reconciled joyful all ye nations rise join the triumph of the skies with the angelic host proclaim christ is born in bethlehem harkharhahrharharhahrharhahrharhar

is someone saying my name?

teehee

It's not approach, it's just I'm not understanding anything you're doing.

Like I don't understand how you can half agree with BTD. Recall the whole basis of BTD's play is he has "broken the setup" and we should therefore blindly follow him and The Plan to a nice happy win with a bow on top. There's 0 nuance involved, it's all very cold and calculated. If his math is good then his conclusions must be correct right? If his conclusions are correct then scumreads don't matter right?

mars just said that btd is equally as cold about giving reads over providing setup spec in his towngame. does that not make sense to you/not give you pause?

[Gorkington]

work is a thing but im here i guess.
whatsup.

[Gorkington]

Gork I am not happy.

i dont know what i did
or didnt do
but i hope at some point you can forgive me.
D:

VOTE: No Lynch

It's impossible for a cop to die by the time cops out (D3) because of hypoing. It would only be possible because of a cop read or a lucky random night kill.

im really befaffled that tenshii's got a wagon growing on him/is being pushed and this is the only thing he pops in to mention. im trying to make heads or tails of it and i just dont understand why town or scum would do this.
>.>

i feel like im partially considering voting people based on who i would feel least guilty about being wrong over.
and thats probably stupid.
someone call me stupid.

[Gorkington]

quilford are you townreading myko.
mars are you townreading myko.
words why if so please.

i'll try to really bite into thinking about tenshii and btd tonight.
i'll have like 5 more minutes of lunchtime to look things over after i get food.
if youve got something important to poke my face over that you need an answer to before 4 hours from now, now's the time.

[Gorkington]

im kind of almost halfway to thinking that tenshii's play this game is almost too on the face awful to be scum.
like do you think it makes sense for lurkingScum to try and pitch someone else as being a viable lynch because theyre lurking? its such a lame contradictory thought that i kind of feel like generally scum cares more about how that looks?

i dont really know if i see anything particularly strong in the first three points youre making.

his thoughts being disjointed looks bad but like, i feel like its even easier for scum to generally just follow a singular train of thought, rather than jump around.
admittedly most of my thoughts here are kind of lame, but like, i dont really think what youre pushing there really scratches any kind of surface of genuine scumminess for me
):

on that note.

BTD

.
i appreciate all the work you put into the math, but its not really enough for me to townread you.
and as much as i kind of hate the idea of you being town, putting in that much work and then getting lynched for it, im not going to not follow my reads out of guilt.
if i dont see a post from you parsing people in the game to any reasonable capacity in the next 12 hours im going to be the weight that pushes the momentum onto you.

Vote: myko

i prefer myko/BTD counterwagons atm.
fight me if you want tenshii.

[Gorkington]

mars/quilford are both town.
chamber is hopefully town.
edos is hopefully town.

zito is maybe possibly townish?

tenshii isnt really scummy to me/maybe kind of townish.
idfk.

myko/btd are whats left.
myko's probably more likely scum.
needs to be more momentum there for it to be a thing

i dont like the idea of a lurkerfest lategame but im going with my heart and if its right then weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee chamber/me townParty all the way to the bank
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[Gorkington]

also chamber if youre hiding a scumread on me:

Spoiler: private message for chamber

you suck.

back to hating my life at work.

will be around tonight to suffer in this game and hopefully get some shit done.

[Gorkington]

you could hit me in the face more and i might end up agreeing?
im just going by shitty seat of my pants garbage at this point so if you want to convince me to be your cheerleader then you just have to make me feel stupid for disagreeing with you. also i lied im still reading along because i dont want to be at work.

[Gorkington]

its not hard to make me feel stupid. usually all it takes is pointing and laughing.

[Gorkington]

idk the god dammit cheet made me reread mykos tone a lot

why is myko not frustrated scum

[Gorkington]

myko looks like town whos stubbornly pushing something it looks like he geniunely believes in

do you think he genuinely believed i was scum when i voted me

[Gorkington]

when he voted me
RIP.

[Gorkington]

i might be biased but ive just kind of assumed who mars is.

honestly think our hand is more or less forced. if mars/zito arent going to vote myko then we basically have a stalemate.
especially when btd is never going to vote someone.

[Gorkington]

I don't support a myko lynch today.

is this purely based on practical reasons?
or are you townleaning him?

[Gorkington]

I don't support a myko lynch today.

is this purely based on practical reasons?
or are you townleaning him?

[Gorkington]

ive decided that we will only lynch active players. all ye who disagree can stuff yourselves because i have decreed that we are only doing one thing and one thing only and should you ask me to explain myself on anything then ye can stuff yourselves.

[Gorkington]

i signed up for this game specifically to try to find the most inactive players, rather than scum, so really this is an ideal situation.

[Gorkington]

i could understand that logic in a setup that isnt this setup.

[Gorkington]

BTD can have his one burst of activity at L-1 just to show he really means it as town. And people buy that shit!? That's literally the one thing that killed that wagon. But kill it it did.

literally no one has called btd town. the closest to that was edos iirc and he changed his mind.

[Gorkington]

fine whatever. if either of zito/myko is scum here gj.

vote: btd

we're not going to get a claim otherwise.
mars isnt going to flip a gutread, zito isnt going to stop wanting this, btd isnt going to vote anyone and the rest of the players in the game arent active enough to guarantee that theyre even going to read the game anytime in the near future.
and there's really nothing town about anything hes done in any serious capacity.
im bored.
lets get a claim.

[Gorkington]

idk why you think talking about that is a good idea.

[Gorkington]

yeah i guess claims might be bad based on how people would react to them.

[Gorkington]

could give him a chance to give final reads even though he'll likely just complain that we're stupid for lynching him.

[Gorkington]

zzzzz
i guess just lynch him really?

woah look its me giving you permission to lamehammer @scum.

[Gorkington]

is it not 5 with your vote right now?

[Gorkington]

mars please vote for btd so chamber can hammer or chamber please vote for btd so mars can hammer.

[Gorkington]

i guess we will run down the clock and eventually lynch btd then.

[Gorkington]

i really dont get what youre suggesting.
if i thought i could convince mars to vote someone, i would still be pushing for you right now.

[Gorkington]

i would have hoped if you had strongly disagreed with my assessment of tenshii you would have told me why i was being a silly goose quil.
:c

[Gorkington]

It's really hard for me to be bothered at this stage

if it makes you feel better im pretty upset we're not lynching mykonian anymore.

I mean, you yourself identified a perfectly good reason why scum tend to jump around more than town in one of your points against mykonian, but apparently a different set of laws apply to Tenshii. Overall you seem to be crediting him with a higher level of scum play than I think is warranted. Maybe you know more about him than me, I dunno.

this is what i meant by "please call me stupid if im being stupid".
i dont have any experience with tenshii.
im willing to be convinced to vote there even though we're getting fucking close to the wire here.
its frankly a lot easier for me to parse mykonian's play and be confident about what im seeing because i know him better and hes said a lot more things, where it feels like tenshii's absence and my unfamiliarity with him makes it harder.

the difference in my mind between tenshii jumping from point to point is that it seems like hes probably coming into the game with nothing every time he comes in.
where myko is clearly invested and knows whats going on and is instead acting with 0 conviction (or at least i dont believe any level of the conviction hes pushing at any point) with anything hes pushing.
when he jumps around a bunch pushing a level of confidence it feels really really forced to me.
when tenshii jumps around a bunch it seems like he has no idea what hes talking about.
and thats my lazy assessment of his play.

i had a 2 hour nap and am feeling a little bit energetic so i can try to parse tenshii's ISO with a little more patience, but thats where my head is currently at.

[Gorkington]

okay i skimmed through tenshii's ISO and i feel even stronger than before that your point isnt super great about him being hypocritical about calling BTD a lurker while he was also saying calling him a lurker was unfair as reasoning for him being scum.
he was calling BTD an active lurker, where he was being called out for avoiding posting.
kind of different no?

i also literally just remembered that i was poking edos a while back and then he disappeared.
that was pretty rude of him.

[Gorkington]

I feel like Tenshii is also trying to invest his posts with a level of confidence that feels forced

if thats what he was trying to do why play tentative with my contradiction?

[Gorkington]

he was saying that BTD was active lurking before he provided his math post:

Theres no way in hell we should end he day with a lynch given that BTD hasn't made a stance all game.

I like the idea of him pushing for an optimal gamebreaking strategy but he isn't actually doing that. By his next post, he should fully convince why we should follow the strat or he should post stances.

Atm, it just comes off as active lurkng. Highly scum motivated btw.

BTD either

As town: Managed to take basically a whole 2 weeks to post about a game breaking strat
As scum: Managed to lurk through a whole 2 weeks.

I'm inclined to believe in the latter but I'm giving him the BOTD

which is a pretty valid POV to have?
i still feel like BTD has pretty actively avoided making any kind of conclusion on anyone in the game besides calling chamber scummy for really weak surface level reasons.
tenshii has taken stances on things beyond just the theorycrafting.
just because he hasnt been here much doesnt mean hes done the same level of nothing in terms of scumhunting that BTD has. i know youve told me before that you think that genuine scumhunting is something that scum cant do, why doesnt that make you uneasy with BTD?

[Gorkington]

VOTE: myko

[Gorkington]

are you sure about that?

[Gorkington]

that i have to do anything but get you lynched?

[Gorkington]

Great lynch guys, really happy with how that one turned out.

could have been worse.
we havent lost either cop yet.

phoneposting until tonight so i will be sparse until then.

[Gorkington]

Edosurist, Tenshii

if either of you could start seriously playing the game i would appreciate it.

[Gorkington]

guilty on zito.
popcorn edos.

[Gorkington]

oh yeah true i guess my content level has been exactly the same as edos and tenshii good call myko.

[Gorkington]

just because you disagree or dislike reasoning i push doesnt mean there isnt any and that i havent been active and doing things this game.
its ridiculous that youre implying otherwise here.

[Gorkington]

please try to lynch me.
itll be funny.

[Gorkington]

what

[Gorkington]

okay hbd you get the popcorn now. tenshii hypoclaim.

[Gorkington]

i want to start lynching myko and i cant if we're doing hypoclaims.

hypoclaim.

and explain whatever the hell that shit with 24 hours being a townslip was.

[Gorkington]

wow.

[Gorkington]

oh yeah for sure lets lynch him before we get all of the hypoclaims out because tenshii doesnt feel like it.
if youre town please consider flipping your brain switch from off to on.

[Gorkington]

well with great arguments like he seems fine and he can keep track of time so hes town i guess i should just throw my read in the trash.
who are we lynching then?
me?
can it be me?

lets lynch me.

like myko is acting like nobody has given a single concrete reason that hes scum and he knows that hes full of shit. he knows it. to act like chamber and i have been waving our arms around pushing no specific points is fucking absurd. and the lack of engagement on those points from anyone else in the game is frustrating as fuck. if you guys want to drive the game, be my guest. but dont mind me when im pretty fucking sour when myko flips scum and everyone let him get away for gutreasons while pushing nothing concrete about anyone else other than "welp they werent talking much".

[Gorkington]

It's snark and no content.

like this is so bad.
i cant believe youre townreading him when hes saying shit like this.
lol.

[Gorkington]

can you just hypoclaim so we can get this fucking over with? jesus. like it wasnt bad enough you peaced out at deadline when we needed votes and now youre acting indignant when it was partially your fault that btd got lynched because you werent here to push a counter to it.




hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Gorkington]

and if you leave for five days again after edos hypoclaims?

[Gorkington]

Wtf do you mean wth

why is this happening

I already strongarmed a lynch on someone who was being uncooperative.

I ain't scared to do it again.

did you forget how to scumhunt?

[Gorkington]

i) myko's read progressions make no sense. theres no legwork
its just "this person is town"
or "this person is scum"
there are no questions
no sorting
he just gets to the answer and it doesnt seem real.

ii) myko has played UNBELIEVABLY obtuse about so many points people have made.
he did the same thing with chamber that hes doing with me, where hes basically throwing all of his effort into character assassinating us and redirecting the conversation every time we bring up a point that might be difficult
to attack directly.

iii) myko has basically been willing to wagon anyone thats been in the consensus scumpile.

iv) nobody wants to vote for myko.
at best this means that scum wants to keep him alive to make noise and carry him to lategame lynch.
but man has it ever been like pulling fucking teeth to get 3 votes on myko at any given point this game.

v) chamber has told me that he very rarely gets confident about reads and when he does, theyre almost always right.
he was very confident about myko.
chamber is dead.
scum kills people theyre afraid of.
im sure chamber being a huge threat played into the reasoning scum used for the kill (and yes i can already hear people crying about how scum is cophunting, scum would only believe chamber is a cop if theyre afraid
of him because he was playing in a manner that would essentially mean as town he was trying to trick them out of killing someone else)

vi) myko's vote on me was god awful yesterday and his subsequent reaction to me pushing him on it was even worse.
he doesnt believe the things hes pushing.

if you want to ignore all of this and let myko pretend like ive got nothing here when this is the meat and potatoes of everything chamber and i have been pushing all game
then by all means.

just tell me who we should lynch first on the quest to losing the game faster.

[Gorkington]

were you townreading tenshii at the time? the answer is no. what motivation do you have as scum to vote tenshii when you have a perfectly fine btd wagon going, the clock running down and no chance of a counterwagon forming on you? excuse me while i say bull fucking shit back at you.

chamber is pretty much the only serious push youve made this whole game which hasnt reeked of you trying to get an easy lynch and even then it mostly just came off as survivalistic in the same way that your vote on me did.

[Gorkington]

vote: zito

[Gorkington]

why did you disappear and not vote him yesterday then.

[Gorkington]

unvote

[Gorkington]

i believe the general idea is that if we dont have the cops claim now, if we mislynch today then scum has room to counterclaim and muddle with who is conftown or not tomorrow when all they would have to do is trick one person to win at that point.

[Gorkington]

would want to move down the line from most suspect to least suspect people.

Also, make my day, we need that edo wagon too. It'll be christmas come early!

you want that more than a zito wagon?

[Gorkington]

edos was on earlier.

guess who i want to lynch especially after their really awkward entry for today.

[Gorkington]

i think we should wait until chamber claims before we do anything else in this game.
edos would be my vote if that wasnt clear.

[Gorkington]

but i also dont hate the idea of myko just claiming first i guess.

[Gorkington]

was actually expecting it tbh.

[Gorkington]

oh.
ohhhh.
okay.
yeah we're probably lynching edos or zito.

[Gorkington]

ruh roh.

[Gorkington]

might be easier to try 1v1ing tenshii myko
if youre looking for advice here

[Gorkington]

I claim cop.

Gork, you're lucky last.

not a cop.
time for myko vs tenshii showdown of justice!

[Gorkington]

if quilford/mars is the scumteam then congrats,
but no thanks i'd rather lose than throw out my two strongest townreads.

im leaning really hard on edos/myko being the scumteam atm.

[Gorkington]

He's confirmed scum from my point of view. Nothing to do with my read on him anymore.

doesnt really seem like hes confirmed scum from your POV? couldnt tenshii be scum? was his claim really so believable that you completely tossed a read that you were seemingly refusing to budge on before this?

[Gorkington]

quilford thinks he has a guilty and is widely townread/thus likely nightkill bait, tenshii thinks he doesnt, is lynchbait and cant imagine getting nightkilled.
which has more drive to want to claim here?

[Gorkington]

we should lynch mars.

[Gorkington]

see zito that would be a good idea if mars was being scummy and if we wouldnt be going into lylo if we mislynch here.
what do you reckon the odds are that myko isnt just scum here?
cause im going to vote who i think is scum over whats optimal in this situation 10/10 times.

[Gorkington]

theres also that lynching mars doesnt confirm who is scum in the cop pool. we still have no idea who would be scum between the three of them.

[Gorkington]

*assuming mars is town

p-edit: uh? yeah? why is she scum instead of confused town?
if myko is scum (which he frankly probably is) then mars is literally conftown if we lynch him.

pp-edit: :')

[Gorkington]

you think the scumteam is mars and quilford.

[Gorkington]

zito.
youre killing my poor little heart.

[Gorkington]

if mars flips town it doesnt confirm anything.

[Gorkington]

can you just say that youre scumreading mars instead of trying to frame it as being mechanically optimal when it clearly isnt?

[Gorkington]

i think we should lynch in the copclaims for 100% confirmed scum either today or tomorrow, with worst case of 3 player lylo vs lynching outside the copclaims and having to sort through them during LyLo.

[Gorkington]

zito wants to sort tenshii though. in the event that zito is town i think its fair to stay out of his way and let him try to do what he wants to do here.