Open 643: Kill All Townies! (Game Over)

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: karnos

For making up fake probabilities.

[LicketyQuickety]

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty}
{Bellaphant}
{LicketyQuickety}

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty, Smithereens, Kop, pistachi0n}
{sad}
{Bellaphant, DixC}
{House}
{LicketyQuickety}

Explain these lists, please.

[LicketyQuickety]

Explain these lists, please.

The names at the top of the lists are winners, the names at the bottom are losers.

I didn't ask you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Town read on Chip.

[LicketyQuickety]

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty}
{Bellaphant}
{LicketyQuickety}

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty, Smithereens, Kop, pistachi0n}
{sad}
{Bellaphant, DixC}
{House}
{LicketyQuickety}

Explain these lists, please.

VOTE: LQ

Don't be dumb.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why is he dumb? Why would it be dumb to vote everyone but you?

Don't misrep me.

I made a legit inquiry. I see no reason for someone to vote me for that.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why is he dumb? Why would it be dumb to vote everyone but you?

Don't misrep me.

I made a legit inquiry. I see no reason for someone to vote me for that.

Answer the question, please.

No, not answering to false dichotomies.

[LicketyQuickety]

you are trying to seem useful but aren't

I never actually go into a game saying to myself "I should try to be useful" I don't even know how you got that actually. My main concern is finding Scum. So explain how am I just trying to look like I am being useful. I am trying to get reads and I don't care if you think I am being useful or not.

[LicketyQuickety]

Since I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll ask this question sensitive enough for your thin skin:

"Why is it dumb to vote you?"

IDK. That is a matter of opinion, but I would say the reason the person who voted me did so on false premise.

[LicketyQuickety]

And you didn't think of explaining why it's dumb? When you respond, "Don't be dumb," you're not helping anyone or anything. You're just coming across as bitter.

I explained why it was a bad vote. Why are you not seeing that I am actually giving reasons for my actions?

Look, I said "don't be dumb" and people asked about this (as I thought they should) so I gave me reason why I thought it was a bad vote. What else is there to discuss here?

IIRC I was the first person to say they had a Town read on Chip. No one has disagreed. That is doing something.

[LicketyQuickety]

Since I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll ask this question sensitive enough for your thin skin:

"Why is it dumb to vote you?"

You said it was a false premise. That's it. You're doing something the same way a NASCAR driver going 25 MPH is doing something.

You're not doing good enough.

And at this point, I don't believe you're town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Giving me the benefit of the doubt and yet you switch not 30 min later to say you are scum reading me. I'm not sure I understand. Could you explain the switch?

[LicketyQuickety]

This is a mobile post but long story short, I was hoping your responses could change my mind in voting you. They have not. You are not scum hunting. More than that, you think you are.

This game has 5 pages. When did I say I was hard core Scum hunting? You are putting words in my mouth m8. First it was the false dichotomy and now you are saying I am saying I have been Scum hunting. I have not really been scum hunting, well, not directly. I have been making stances which is a kind of Scum hunting.

[LicketyQuickety]

The problem wasn't that you weren't hardcore scum hunting. The problem was that you weren't basic scum hunting. Im not expecting a sprint, but I sure as hell expect more than a crawl.

You've made ONE stance.

One.

Shall we measure that up your trolly posts?

[LicketyQuickety]

These are all the posts that are not just trolly garbage posts that you have made:

DixC voted me for pretending to be mafia. He never said I was mafia.

Semantics.

Vote: Sad

My first serious vote. He's posting quite a bit, and they appear to have depth, but it comes across to defensive.

Defensiveness isn't always a scum tell. Shoulda just stopped at that he was posting quite a bit and they appear to have depth.

Why is he dumb? Why would it be dumb to vote everyone but you?

Like I said, this is a false dichotomy.

Since I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll ask this question sensitive enough for your thin skin:

"Why is it dumb to vote you?"

Not exactly the best question I've ever seen.

You said it was a false premise. That's it. You're doing something the same way a NASCAR driver going 25 MPH is doing something.

You're not doing good enough.

And at this point, I don't believe you're town.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

Voting me for "not doing good enough" I'd like to know the metric you use for what is good enough at page 5.

The problem wasn't that you weren't hardcore scum hunting. The problem was that you weren't basic scum hunting. Im not expecting a sprint, but I sure as hell expect more than a crawl.

You've made ONE stance.

One.

What is your point? this game has been full of trolly posts. You seriously want me to get reads off that shit? So here's another stance: I think almost is town. When people are serious when everyone else is joking I view that as a more townie thing to do.

[LicketyQuickety]

These are all the posts that are not just trolly garbage posts that you have made:

DixC voted me for pretending to be mafia. He never said I was mafia.

Semantics.

Not semantics when there are opposing scum factions of different varieties.

For example,

why not werewolves?

Why not the generic term, scum? Why specifically "mafia"?

It's a legitimate point.

Because people make mistakes early on when it comes to talking about a game where Mafia are far more common than WW.

[LicketyQuickety]

These are all the posts that are not just trolly garbage posts that you have made:

DixC voted me for pretending to be mafia. He never said I was mafia.

Semantics.

Not semantics when there are opposing scum factions of different varieties.

For example,

why not werewolves?

Why not the generic term, scum? Why specifically "mafia"?

It's a legitimate point.

Because people make mistakes early on when it comes to talking about a game where Mafia are far more common than WW.

Still doesn't address why he chose mafia over scum.

One way to explain that is he knew Kuroi was pretending because he, himself, is mafia.

Mafia pretty much as common as Town in this game. That's another possible explanation.

[LicketyQuickety]

These are all the posts that are not just trolly garbage posts that you have made:

DixC voted me for pretending to be mafia. He never said I was mafia.

Semantics.

Not semantics when there are opposing scum factions of different varieties.

For example,

why not werewolves?

Why not the generic term, scum? Why specifically "mafia"?

It's a legitimate point.

Because people make mistakes early on when it comes to talking about a game where Mafia are far more common than WW.

Still doesn't address why he chose mafia over scum.

One way to explain that is he knew Kuroi was pretending because he, himself, is mafia.

Mafia pretty much as common as Town in this game. That's another possible explanation.

Really? Are there multiple town factions that I somehow missed?

Uhg. Do you really have to make this comment?

I meant in the game of mafia Town faction is just about as common as Mafia faction.

[LicketyQuickety]

These are all the posts that are not just trolly garbage posts that you have made:

DixC voted me for pretending to be mafia. He never said I was mafia.

Semantics.

Not semantics when there are opposing scum factions of different varieties.

For example,

why not werewolves?

Why not the generic term, scum? Why specifically "mafia"?

It's a legitimate point.

Because people make mistakes early on when it comes to talking about a game where Mafia are far more common than WW.

Still doesn't address why he chose mafia over scum.

One way to explain that is he knew Kuroi was pretending because he, himself, is mafia.

Mafia pretty much as common as Town in this game. That's another possible explanation.

Really? Are there multiple town factions that I somehow missed?

Uhg. Do you really have to make this comment?

I meant in the game of mafia Town faction is just about as common as Mafia faction.

And it's pretty much irrelevant considering the discussion is about mafia factions, of which there are more than one in this game.

Not town factions, of which there is only one, period.

Did you have some sort of tangible point to make, or are you arguing just to be difficult?

You yourself in this post refer to Mafia as being two different mafia teams when the correct term to use would be Mafia and Werewolf. See my point now?

I am trying to prevent a possible misconception turning into a supposed slip thereby giving us a possibility of a quick mislynch.

[LicketyQuickety]

Explain these lists, please.

No.

VOTE: LicketyQuickety.

I also know she thinks scum spend more time prodding at them than town

Not so!

There's just town ways to do it, and scum ways to do it.

This way, especially given LicketyQuickety's experience of me, makes me think it was the scum way.

You're going to have to provide some evidence for your read on me m8.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LQ

@Bella the exchange between House and Lickety last page... Scum theatre? By which I mean do you think they could be of the same faction?

Why do you suspect we'd be scum of the same faction, specifically? Is it because neither one of us share your scum PT?

Funny. Because that seemed staged to me. Hence "scum theatre". You weren't the one I was asking, either. If I wanted your snark I would have said something like "hey house find something inane to make a jab at me for".

Good lord. Shading much?

[LicketyQuickety]

Ranger has there been any change in your reads since last time?

One or two.
{karnos, hiplop, Smithereens}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty, Kop, pistachi0n}
{sad}
{Bellaphant, DixC}
{House}
{LicketyQuickety}

You're going to have to provide some evidence for your read on me m8.

I really don't.

Well OK then.

VOTE: Ranger

[LicketyQuickety]

Lol I wish I could vote you twice.

@Ranger can you give me the summary of why smithereens is so high please? Or still too early?

Don't be silly. I haven't seen too many games where people get more than one vote. One will have to do, don't get greedy, other people have to play this game too.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ranger can you give me the summary of why smithereens is so high please? Or still too early?

To be perfectly honest, it's a super-strong sudden gut read that I can't really explain. I can't really put that into words.

If I didn't know any better I would say you are banking an awful lot on your reputation.

[LicketyQuickety]

I would say you are banking an awful lot on your reputation.

I bank on my reputation every game, so explicitly so, yes.
(I mean, burden of proficiency's still a fallacy, but that doesn't mean I refuse to use my reputation to my advantage.)

Well, then I suppose if that's the case I have all the more reason to Scum read you for relying on your reputation to substantiate your incorrect read on me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ever wonder what a contrived answer looks like? One answering for someone else and not themselves even?

I would say you are banking an awful lot on your reputation.

I bank on my reputation every game, so explicitly so, yes.
(I mean, burden of proficiency's still a fallacy, but that doesn't mean I refuse to use my reputation to my advantage.)

Well, then I suppose if that's the case I have all the more reason to Scum read you for relying on your reputation to substantiate your incorrect read on me.

Alright, how's this. I'd say it was originally a mild dislike of your RVS choice. You were the first one to not join the Almost flash-wagon, and instead chose to vote the person who started it. I'm not sure what that indicates, exactly, but it obviously indicated something to Ranger, and I'm inclined to trust her on RVS reads because it's kinda a thing she is good at.

Baseless and NAI. How do you know that is what Ranger was thinking about? Assumption much? And you don't know Rangers alignment (unless you are teamed) so your point about trusting them is completely moot.

I've thought about it multiple times and the only things I can come up with I'm personally not sure mean much either way. Basically, I'm thinking a subconscious thing where you have something to hide so you don't want to join the pile up. I'm not Ranger, but that's my guess as to why you were so low on the list.

This is all sorts of bad. Saying there is something in my subconscious that I am hiding (no idea how you dreamed that one up), role fishing, and again assuming what Ranger thinks.

I doubt it was anything solid and definitely a read where if you were town you

could have

elevated yourself. When you asked about her lists in a scummy as fuck way that showed little more than self preservation I'd say that changed the strength of the read. This was where you pinged me, but I figured it could be nothing, so whatever. Then your reaction to hiplop's vote had me wanting to vote you. 102 reads as "wah I got caught for what I think are the wrong reasons".

Why is it Scummy to ask someone about what looks like a reads list that is vague and uninformative? And I really hate could have arguments because they can be contrived into anything. And what makes you so confident that I am Scum? because I would use that argument that people are reading me based on false premise as either alignment.

Then you proceeded to try to debunk all of Kuroi's scumhunting. Not just on yourself but on others. I don't see a way you're flipping town, mate. You failed the test.

In fact, the back and forth with you and House might even be you trying to stop Dixc from being caught "for the wrong reasons" as your buddy.

Actually, you failed the test for coming up with reasons on why I am scum out of thin air that are not even based on what I said, but your own contrived interpretation of what I said.

I debunked Kurio's Scum hunting.. ok was I misrepping them like you are doing with me?

There is no way you can be that confident in your read on me at this stage of the game, try again.

In bold, or, ya know, it could be the reasons I gave, but I don't expect people with confirmation bias to get that.

[LicketyQuickety]

Is rangers reputation really strong enough for the case ur making lq

I don't think it is

Is reputation really strong enough fro her case?

[LicketyQuickety]

I voted you first

Right, and you had shoddy reasons for doing so.

[LicketyQuickety]

Who do you think is scum?

Do you think I am scum?

What do you think my reason for voting you was?

I think Jae is scum and Creature could be Scum as well.

IDK if you are Scum or not. That's the problem with having a Scummy meta is that you can't tell if people are reading you sincerely or not.

I can only guess what your reasons for voting me are, but it looks like you are voting me for asking Ranger to explain her reads, which is pretty shitty if you ask me.

[LicketyQuickety]

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty, Smithereens, Kop, pistachi0n}
{sad}
{Bellaphant, DixC}
{House}
{LicketyQuickety}

I'd like to point out that I had exactly one post when Ranger made this list.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think Jae is scum and Creature could be Scum as well.

Why? What posts, specifically?

Creature has one post, lq. but ranger scum reading you for one post is bad?

wtf?

My read on Creature is I can't talk about ongoing games. Does that make sense? I know what Rangers read is based on but I can't talk about ongoing games so I can't tell you.

It makes sense, but I understand how it looks hypocritical. Its not though. Go through my ISO (site wide) and you might get what I'm talking about.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think Jae is scum and Creature could be Scum as well.

Why? What posts, specifically?

Creature has one post, lq. but ranger scum reading you for one post is bad?

wtf?

My read on Creature is I can't talk about ongoing games. Does that make sense? I know what Rangers read is based on but I can't talk about ongoing games so I can't tell you.

It makes sense, but I understand how it looks hypocritical. Its not though. Go through my ISO (site wide) and you might get what I'm talking about.

That's a huge subversion of the rule... Keep it in the thread.

How would you have handled it?

[LicketyQuickety]

I think Jae has the right answer to this: It's not rocket science to follow a scum partner's lead, even without daytalk. It's not a "stupid" premise, and your calling it such looks like an overreaction. Also, Jae is right to point out that you seemed quick to jump onto his question to Bella to hose this down.

For the sake of argument, let's say that scum CAN stage conversations even without Daytalk. This brings us back to your question about why Jae assumed staging to be between scum of the same faction. If staging IS possible, it is obvious it can only be between scum of the same faction, right?

@Jae: Curious - why did you ask the question about LQ's exchange with House on that page, but not his earlier exchange on the same page with the "other House", aka Kuroi?

I didn't find that exchange to feel off, and didn't have any doubts about it that I felt a second opinion could help with. It felt like a town Kuroi reaching out to LQ in case he was town. Reads town vs scum there. I was already scumreading LQ and the exchange didn't do anything to make me think "huh, he might be town" whereas Kuroi's side seemed pretty town.

My problem with you is that nothing you say is based on verifiable evidence. It can be boiled down to "feels" or "vibes". Hypothesising on why someone is Scum is almost always a secondary way to read people after and only after considering what people have actually done.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ever wonder what a contrived answer looks like? One answering for someone else and not themselves even?

I would say you are banking an awful lot on your reputation.

I bank on my reputation every game, so explicitly so, yes.
(I mean, burden of proficiency's still a fallacy, but that doesn't mean I refuse to use my reputation to my advantage.)

Well, then I suppose if that's the case I have all the more reason to Scum read you for relying on your reputation to substantiate your incorrect read on me.

Alright, how's this. I'd say it was originally a mild dislike of your RVS choice. You were the first one to not join the Almost flash-wagon, and instead chose to vote the person who started it. I'm not sure what that indicates, exactly, but it obviously indicated something to Ranger, and I'm inclined to trust her on RVS reads because it's kinda a thing she is good at.

Baseless and NAI. How do you know that is what Ranger was thinking about? Assumption much? And you don't know Rangers alignment (unless you are teamed) so your point about trusting them is completely moot.

I've thought about it multiple times and the only things I can come up with I'm personally not sure mean much either way. Basically, I'm thinking a subconscious thing where you have something to hide so you don't want to join the pile up. I'm not Ranger, but that's my guess as to why you were so low on the list.

This is all sorts of bad. Saying there is something in my subconscious that I am hiding (no idea how you dreamed that one up), role fishing, and again assuming what Ranger thinks.

I doubt it was anything solid and definitely a read where if you were town you

could have

elevated yourself. When you asked about her lists in a scummy as fuck way that showed little more than self preservation I'd say that changed the strength of the read. This was where you pinged me, but I figured it could be nothing, so whatever. Then your reaction to hiplop's vote had me wanting to vote you. 102 reads as "wah I got caught for what I think are the wrong reasons".

Why is it Scummy to ask someone about what looks like a reads list that is vague and uninformative? And I really hate could have arguments because they can be contrived into anything. And what makes you so confident that I am Scum? because I would use that argument that people are reading me based on false premise as either alignment.

Then you proceeded to try to debunk all of Kuroi's scumhunting. Not just on yourself but on others. I don't see a way you're flipping town, mate. You failed the test.

In fact, the back and forth with you and House might even be you trying to stop Dixc from being caught "for the wrong reasons" as your buddy.

Actually, you failed the test for coming up with reasons on why I am scum out of thin air that are not even based on what I said, but your own contrived interpretation of what I said.

I debunked Kurio's Scum hunting.. ok was I misrepping them like you are doing with me?

There is no way you can be that confident in your read on me at this stage of the game, try again.

In bold, or, ya know, it could be the reasons I gave, but I don't expect people with confirmation bias to get that.

Responding to this is really not a good idea but eh. Might clarify stuff for the rest of the town.

I trust Ranger to nail at least one scumteam unless she's purposely misleading us with the intent to tell her team her true reads tonight (and it has to be tonight because I am sure she is dying tonight regardless of alignment). I'm inclined to think she's not misleading us, given that you've done a pretty good job obv!scumming it up from the moment you asked about her lists in a scummy way. You've reacted poorly to everything from then.

It's not scummy to ask about her lists. In fact, if you were town and asked about it you probably would have gotten bumped up. There are townie and scummy ways to ask Ranger about her lists. If you were town then we wouldn't be having this conversation. You're scum, though, and I believe I read somewhere I shouldn't talk to scum because it makes people stop caring about the lynch, so this will be the last response to you.

Also, not role fishing. You're scum. That's what you tried (and failed) to hide. Don't see how in any universe you could stretch your being scum into me role fishing by saying you were trying to hide it.

I very specifically said it's my guess and I'm not Ranger. I'm nowhere near the scumhunting genius that she is. That said, I know she encourages guessing in order to grow as a player. I'm not doing this for your or even her benefit, I'm doing this for mine and to see how far off the mark I am when/if she does explain it.

There was no misrepping here. There was my interpretation of Ranger's original read on you, and then the acknowledgement that you failed her list test and proceeded to scum it up after that when you got heat for it.

1) If you think the way I questioned the reads list was bad, you really need to identify why that is instead of just saying it was bad. My guess is that you either are not smart enough to do this or you can't come up with anything.

2) You are sheeping someone you don't even know is Town. That is just bad form.

3) Your claim that Ranger is getting NKed tonight for sure is completely baseless. Your argument for this is that Ranger is a good player so that is why they are getting NKed. If Rangers reads are not accurate there is no reason to NK Ranger. You don't even entertain the possibility that Ranger could be wrong (she is wrong about me for one). This is both a Naive and Scummy perspective to have.

My fate is still undecided. The rest applies to you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not only is Jae sheeping, but they are self righteous about it too. I do not like their playstyle at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ is either scum, or one of the least competent Townies I have ever seen. 34 posts in, there is still no sign of genuine scum-hunting. Details:


Initial post 12: I usually don't make a habit of looking at these too hard; if there is anything suspicious about it, it is that LQ places himself apart from the pack by not jumping on the Almost wagon, and the pack is, of course, Town. I don't read much into that myself, given there were already six on that wagon. 66 questions Ranger's list: not too bad if he hasn't played with Ranger before; OTOH, the lists are kinda intuitive, so... 74: unnecessary, and unnecessarily combative. 89: Town reads me with no supporting reasons. Attempted buddying? 94: unnecessary, and unnecessarily combative. Early game, someone naked votes you. Why react, unless you have a guilty secret? Why not scum hunt instead? 96, 98: More useless combat over why he got voted. Overall tone so far is "I didn't say anything wrong to give the game away, why is everyone seeing through me?" 100: says he is trying to find scum, and trying to get reads, but has done zero of either. More obsession with how he is being perceived. Scummy, scummy, scummy.

Continued in part 2...

Look, I know you are Town at this point, but you just don't understand how I play at all. Take for example that I gave you a town read without any reasons given. Why are you so quick to say I am buddying you because of that? I made that comment for a few reasons: 1) I thought you are town and wanted to see who, if anyone would disagree with the read 2) I didn't think anyone would disagree with the read so that would mean you could be added to a Town block 3) I wanted to see what you specifically would say about me giving you a town read for no reason given. I have given Town reads with no reasons given a lot lately and I can link you to some games I have done this in if you don't believe me, games where I was town.

[LicketyQuickety]

Look, I know you are Town at this point, but you just don't understand how I play at all.

How do you "know" that I am Town? Even scum don't know that, since there are two factions. That fact, by the way, is the only thing not making you look incredibly more scummy than you already do by saying this. And you're right: I don't understand the way you play. But it makes sense if you are scum.

Its comments like this that tell me you are Town. I can't say 100% that you are Town and I'm not trying to argue that. But it is obvious that because you fight me so hard on the fact that I read you Town is exactly the kind of mentality that a Town player would have.

Take for example that I gave you a town read without any reasons given. Why are you so quick to say I am buddying you because of that?

The last time someone buddied me for no reason like that, when I had just entered the game, he was scum. I can't remember anyone doing it as Town.

Calling someone Town for no reason can in fact be a reaction test. Basically if I call you town for not reason and if you were to just agree with that read, that could be a Scum tell because Scum would just want to get the Town cred. So while a crafty Scum player could question the read, if they agree with the read it says much more.

I made that comment for a few reasons: 1) I thought you are town and wanted to see who, if anyone would disagree with the read 2) I didn't think anyone would disagree with the read so that would mean you could be added to a Town block 3) I wanted to see what you specifically would say about me giving you a town read for no reason given.

1) Yeah, maaaaybe. 2) Why wouldn't you think anyone would disagree, when it was so early in the game and you didn't give reasons for your read? Also, if you didn't think anyone would disagree, why (1)? 3) Why, if you "knew" I am Town?

1) Yes, glad you at least understand that its a possibility that that is what I was doing.
2) I don't think anyone would disagree for the simple fact that you haven't done anything Scummy. Scum would be warry to just disagree with this when they can't support it at all with evidence. On the off chance someone did disagree that would be good info to have, knowing that they disagree with a read based on nothing. So either people question me that I came up with a read with no evidence or they don't disagree.
3) Because like I said, you questioning the read would be a Townie response.

I have given Town reads with no reasons given a lot lately and I can link you to some games I have done this in if you don't believe me, games where I was town.

Sure, link those, why not?

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/5 ... -mafia-xxi - QuickTwist

http://www.sc2mafia.com/forum/showthrea ... ia-Wars-II Rurouni Kenshin

There, those are two games. There are more, but I think most of them are ongoing.

[LicketyQuickety]

QL ISO, Part 2:

102 is a nothing answer to a question from Kuroi. 104 is awful. Among other things, LQ point to his endoresement-without-reasons as evidence that he is doing useful work for Town. In 106 he questions why Kuroi went from giving him the benefit of the doubt to voting him. Obvious answer: because LQ said that the player who voted him was dumb because he voted for on a "false premise". I.e. a nothing defense. 108 gets even worse, with this memorable line: "I have not really been scum hunting, well, not directly. I have been making stances which is a kind of Scum hunting." 110: Snarky. 113: At last, puts a bit of effort into replies to Kuroi. A bit of an improvement here. Says he thinks lmost is Town, and at least gives some sort of reason this time. But WHY give a reason here, given his subsequent defense of his endorsement of me

sans

-reason? And he takes that stance in response to Kuroi pointing out that he has taken only one stance in the game so far. STILL HASN'T DONE ANY SCUMHUNTING. Instead, seems to be Townhunting. 117, 119, 121, 123: Engages in a duelling-handbags argument with House (another suspicious character, btw) over the use of the terms "mafia" and "scum". There is already a discussion about whether this is staged, so I won't address it here.

Continued in Part 3...

I gave a reason for why Almost was Town because Kuroi said I had made only one stance so I thought I would provides some reasoning so that it doesn't look like I am just constantly giving empty Town reads. Read the game I game from TL. You will see part of the reason I was lynched was because I kept giving empty Town reads. I am not doing that this game. I did it once.

As far as lack of Scum hunting goes, I am still providing reads and getting reads. As long as I am doing either making stances or Scum hunting, that should give you information to work with in sorting out my alignment. And what is wrong with Town hunting? I am Town, so I want to know who NOT to lynch. Its a valid way to play this setup.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think I'm pretty much up to here. Hiplop is the wagon I'd like to join the most.

House I'm reading quite high up in the town reads, along with chip butty. Ranger, slight town read, along with almost, bella. Everyone else is pretty much at null till I start looking through ISOs properly.

Scum theatre can be done without actually planning it before hand, but for that to happen, it would actually require the other person to be experienced enough to see out that it's theatre and play along with it. If the other person isn't as experienced enough, it would actually either take a little bit doing to make it less obvious that it's being setup, so I actually don't think it's scum theatre. If House flips scum, then it could be worth while looking back on it, but I have a town read on House, so I don't think it's a case I'll be looking back on.

VOTE: Hiplop

Its a weird game plan of his, and the stance he has took, doesn't necessarily add up. You really need to explain your mindset towards what you've stated, so a better understanding can be met.

you are voting Hilop because you don't understand their play. I am undecided on HipLop, but gun to my head I think they are Town. HipLop is playing on a higher level than you, that is why you are Scum reading them.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: lq

that post was horrible.

What was horrible about it?

[LicketyQuickety]

Kinda agree with the horribleness oh that post, actually.

VOTE: LQ

I repeat myself. What was horrible about it?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: lq

that post was horrible.

Kinda agree with the horribleness oh that post, actually.

VOTE: LQ

Hip is fishing for reactions. If you can't see that IDK what to tell you.

[LicketyQuickety]

V/LA:

Creature until 6/19.
KuroiXHF until 6/20.
Ranger until 6/20.

@Chip he's VLA.

Thanks for pointing this out.

VOTE: Creature

[LicketyQuickety]

V/LA:

Creature until 6/19.
KuroiXHF until 6/20.
Ranger until 6/20.

@Chip he's VLA.

Thanks for pointing this out.

VOTE: Creature

You're voting him because he is V/LA?

He's posting elsewhere on the forum.

[LicketyQuickety]

FFS.

Why am I being lynched?

You all are retarded.

[LicketyQuickety]

I don't see much Town motivation for my wagon. Chip is Town but wrong. The rest of you, especially house, have no excuse.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ranger is Fucking Scum here for not providing a lick of evidence for why I am Scum which lead to my lynch.

[LicketyQuickety]

Hey pista, do you have any other thoughts?

Jae, I've said a bunch of times I'm townreading House. Sadly I'm not as invested in Ranger's reads as you

Ranger is a townread. Creature is shaping up to be a scumread. I'm not wild about you or LQ.

Why? Why the hell is Ranger a Town read for you? WTF, at best Ranger has been NAI, at worst they are Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqmlffA9U9s[/youtube]

I can post videos too.

Clearly you can't.

P-Edit- figure it out yourself newb.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

The noise:content ratio is off the charts. Just looking at his iso, it's either baseless unsupported claims or self-defense.

Bad vote

Okay, I am here.

I am against LQ wagon.

Is that so?

VOTE: LQ

Terrible vote.

[LicketyQuickety]

@LQ: You look really stupid right now
Hate the game not the gamers.

What are you even talking about?

The wagon on me is baseless BS. If you think I don't have any reason to be upset, you are out of your mind.

And if that's all you got as contribution to the thread, then you're not being very helpful to Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Almost
One more push!

VOTE: King of squirrels
He didn't make his claim sound like a joke and more like it's a matter of fact. +Old good guts

Now i understand how Rangers reads also count as reaction tests!
VOTE: LQ
His whole discussion with Ranger seemed scummy as F***. I mean i usually rely on gut, but i don't even want to suppress it right now.

Hip is fishing for reactions. If you can't see that IDK what to tell you.

Fishing for reactions=Reaction test=It's not supposed to be known that it's a reaction test=You hurt town with your statement

Rvs is rvs. When it's over, it's over. Trying to drag the game back into rvs when there is content to discuss is scummy as fuck.

I really disagree with this.

I feel a bit stupid for asking; But did you mean the Rvs is over when it's over, or dragging the game back to rvs? If it's the latter, why do you disagree?

@LQ: You look really stupid right now
Hate the game not the gamers.

this is your ISO. The whole thing. you haven't said a single new thing in the whole game.

[LicketyQuickety]

But LQ, you need to pick up your game. The wagon on your lynch was there for good reason: You have done nothing but be defensive and give largely unsupported oinions, and you have done veritually nothing to genuinely scumhunt.

Its hard to Scum hunt when half the players aren't even taking the game seriously. The first 4 pages were solid BS, scum claims and unsubstantiated reads.

Tell you what, give me some stuff to work with and I'll see what I can do.

[LicketyQuickety]

Terrible vote.

Lol.

Admittedly, its not as bad as if it was a hammer, but its still a pretty bad vote.

P-Edit: K, so it was the hammer. I stand by my statement that it was a terrible vote then.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm pretty sure LQ is already lynched.

I was already on the wagon when I "hammered".

Terrible vote.

Lol.

Admittedly, its not as bad as if it was a hammer, but its still a pretty bad vote.

P-Edit: K, so it was the hammer. I stand by my statement that it was a terrible vote then.

I feel stupid.

[LicketyQuickety]

....can you explain how that was a townie reaction to a hammer?

like, charl looks terrible and is prolly scum, but I'm still down for lynching lq.

If your read on me is based on meta, you don't have enough meta on me. I think last time I played a game with you was in 2015. But if it is based on meta, I'd like to hear your reasons.

[LicketyQuickety]

....can you explain how that was a townie reaction to a hammer?

This. I found some of those unvotes sus as f for this reasoning.

Disagree about Charl, he's a nullish for me right now.

You can't be serious. All you have are hypotheticals on why I am Scum. Nothing tangible at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

like, charl looks terrible and is prolly scum, but I'm still down for lynching lq.

Explain the logic of not voting for prolly scum, but rather for LQ? Or you don't really care who gets lynched?

She's voting definite scum rather than probable scum. She's gotta care who gets lynched no matter her alignment. What you brought up is a null point and a misrep.

Don't think it was intentional, just saying read the posts :p

How?
HOW?!?!
am I definite Scum?

VOTE: Jae

[LicketyQuickety]

Btw, I'm thinking that scum probably don't want to lynch scum at this point but they still want to find them. Scum need to narrow the town pool. Hence the unvotes on LQ.

His anger is NAI from how I'm seeing it. Can't decide if House is scum or bad town.

What have you actually done that is a town agenda? You keep ignoring me. You keep ignoring others to. That is not how this game is played. I seriously hope you eat rope because your self righteous playstyle is infuriating.

[LicketyQuickety]

Town reads:

Almost50
House
Chip Butty
Smithereens
DixC
sad1492

[LicketyQuickety]

How does someone with four posts (Sad) ring you as a town post?

Because of their stance on who they are voting for. Its not set in stone by any means.

[LicketyQuickety]

I don't see scum really get pissed off after a hammer the way LQ was.

I've seen them outraged with excessive swearing and name calling insisting they were town for more than an hour until the thread actually got locked for a VC and a flip.

P.S. "Them" is in reference to scum in general, not particularly LQ, as I've never played with him before.

I did this as Town just today. I don't find the temper display as particularly AI - sometimes it IS intensely frustrating when those Town morons just refuse to see that you are Town too. On the other hand, when the temper display is a first response, it DOES look pretty bad - I think Town will resort to reason first and persist with that for a long while, but might finally get frustrated. LQ's response here was of temper-first variety, and does look scummy. Also, there was about an hour-and-a-half between House's fakehammer and LQ's first response, which means he had plenty of time to plan that response. But who knows? maybe he had just logged in and lashed out when he saw what had happened. He did seem very slow to pick up on the fakehammer when it was revealed following Charl's unvote, but that can be faked too, I guess. So, all-in-all, I don't think LQ's fakehammer response gets him too much in the way of Town credit.

He did do one interesting thing during that episode, though, which was to post Charl's ISO and point out how terrible it was. He's quite right there, and Charl's posts since have not helped (I'll deal with those in a separate post). I'm thinking these guys might be scum from opposing factions. I could prob vote either -overall, LQ does look terrible, and that ISO of Charl just shows he knows what to do to find scum when he needs to. I'll make up my mind who to vote for after looking at Charl's updated ISO again. Charl is a guy who I have read as scummy when he was Town in another game, though (Newbie 1704) - Jae, hiplop: you were in that, too.

I have no idea why you think Town would resort to reason first. I don't know where you are getting that at all. Here's what happened. I woke up and thought I saw a hammer on me for reasons yet to be stated other than "vibes" and concoctions dreamed up by people. I was slow to catch on that the hammer wasn't actually a hammer because I just don't expect people to make that play. The day is early which was another reason why I was furious that I was lynched with so much time on the clock yet.

And you are a Town read because you are not playing like an experienced player plays and inexperienced players are the easiest to read. Just FYI.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have no idea why you think Town would resort to reason first.

Because Town, knowing that they are Town, know that there ARE valid reasons they can produce to convince other Town of their alignment, if only they can articulate those reasons convincingly enough - they start out by being confident the truth will out, and only later become frustrated when their Townmates cannot see it. Scum, OTOH, know that they can only resort to BS, and if they are not confident in their BS-spinning abilities, can get frustrated and lash out.

Town's main concern should not be to prove how Townie they are, nor should this be the #1 priority of Scum. The main priority of Town is to find Scum and lynch them. Do you really think the proper action for town to make is to say to themselves "I am going to really try hard to look town this game"? What do you tell people that just naturally have a Scummy meta? I have a Scummy meta so I know just how hard it can be to convince people that I am Town, so that is why it is not my top priority.

And you are a Town read because you are not playing like an experienced player plays and inexperienced players are the easiest to read. Just FYI.

Um...you haven't actually produced any reasosn for Townreading me there. All you have done is said I am easy to read. Okay, so what have I posted so far that makes you think I am Town?

You are playing like you are an open book, meaning you have a very open thought process. When players do this it is a strong indication that they are Town. I read Almost50 as Town for basically the same thing.

[LicketyQuickety]

Chip, I get you, but you are confirmation biasing me pretty hard right now.

[LicketyQuickety]

You are playing like you are an open book, meaning you have a very open thought process. When players do this it is a strong indication that they are Town. I read Almost50 as Town for basically the same thing.

If you are scum, you are obviously either buddying or trying to give me the

kiss

manly handshake of death in anticipation of being lynched.

the thing is tho, I'm Town. I've just been in enough games to tell you are Town is all.

[LicketyQuickety]

You are playing like you are an open book, meaning you have a very open thought process. When players do this it is a strong indication that they are Town. I read Almost50 as Town for basically the same thing.

If you are scum, you are obviously either buddying or trying to give me the

kiss

manly handshake of death in anticipation of being lynched.

the thing is tho, I'm Town. I've just been in enough games to tell you are Town is all.

Can you please link to a completed game in which you were Town? And one in which you were scum?

Sure, why not.

Just for this site we have:

Most recent completed Town game I believe:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=64506

Most recent completed Scum game I believe:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=63765

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

Reviewing.

@LQ who else did I apparently ignore?

You said you wanted to hear from anyone but a few people, did you not?

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

Reviewing.

@LQ who else did I apparently ignore?

You said you wanted to hear from anyone but a few people, did you not?

Oh, that was regarding that particular question, as it is a direct question

about

those people. I have my own reads on those people and the situation, but want others to weigh in so I can read the other people better.

I'm going to be honest here, I don't like the way you play.

[LicketyQuickety]

I read his Micro 558. There's really nothing different about his game play from game to game imho. Certainly nothing obvious.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Jaereed

I sense massive inconsistency in this player. In post 130 he started that scum theatre hypothesis that went on for a while, and voted LQ for it. this scum theatre view implicated house and LQ, however his behaviour from then onwards only condemns LQ. He even defends House in post 151 and explicitly draws attention away from house back to LQ. I won't pretend to know the motives behind it, save for the fact that it appears contrived and allows Jae have a legitimate reason to join the wagon on LQ.

Later on he reveals that Bellaphant convinced him that House isn't scum sided with LQ, however puzzlingly he scum reads Bellaphant and says

"I really want to respond to you as a person but I can't because I don't know for sure you're the same alignment as me"

post 200 For context, in the previous post he is clearly looking for reasons to call Bell suss post 192 even if he's trying to appeal to Ranger to do it. Talking about ranger, he's been ass kissing her this entire game. It's gets painfully overt here: post 188

Something not adding up about this player imo.

you are starting to be one of my favorite players, you know that?

[LicketyQuickety]

Here is a Scum game I was in that ended like an hour ago: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=66845

[LicketyQuickety]

reads LQ? I get the feeling you're an easy wagon target because you post a lot of unhelpful material.

I just gave a Town read list. I don't really have anything nailed down except for Chip.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm really liking Chip Buddy and Smithereens as town.

What do you think of Jae?

[LicketyQuickety]

KuroiXHF, Ranger, JaeReed, Charloux, Bellaphant, House, Karnos, ChipButty

The wagon. At some point everyone here except for Ranger has been scum read. Charloux probably has the most scum reads, and for good reason imo. I'm thinking Chip leans town due to the fake hammer incident as a genuine form of scum hunting, but he didn't follow it up with much for what I would have expected a strong town to do. Everyone from Jaereed to Karnos are good lynch targets. So out of 5 players, I'd wager there's at most 2-3 townies amongst them. In order of preference for lynch I'd put them as:
Jaereed
Charloux
House
Karnos
Bellaphant.

I'm confused, what are you talking about when you say "I'm thinking Chip leans town due to the fake hammer incident as a genuine form of scum hunting"? It was House who did the fake hammer.

And I'm not sure I would be confident LQ is town yet.

I've seen enough scum continue to fake after hammer, and in this case the delay was long enough it could have been a rehearsed response.

I think it's unlikely that more than 1 scum of each faction was on the wagon, so 1 or maybe 2 scum. If LQ is scum, the L-1 vote could be a partner busing, that would be Chip, but Chip also provided a lot of initial fuel for the lynch when busing wouldn't be as likely, so scratch that. Except... immediately after the "hammer", LQ says something about how Chip is town but wrong- more bus theory evidence? I think the idea is too tinfoil, but crazier things do happen occasionally. Obviously all of the above is only relevant if LQ is scum.

Anyway, I don't know if LQ is town or not for sure. I don't think there was more than 1, maybe 2 scum on his wagon, which would be 12.5% to 25% of the wagon- which is a worse chance than just randomly picking a scum out from the list of all unknown players 6/16, or 37.5% chance of randomly hitting scum by simply lynching a random player.

But why pick randomly when there are better methods?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8021473

Scum iso. If LQ is town, this is obvious trying for town cred by opposing the wagon before it goes through.

VOTE: creature

Links or it didn't happen.

[LicketyQuickety]

Links or it didn't happen.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8023311

One lousy link is the best you could do, huh? Not buying it with one game. You implied multiple games you have see this, unless you are just really new to this game and think one game means something.

Let's lynch Jae, if he flips guilty then Karnos is guilty with him.

Based on what exactly? Sorry I'm not going to blindly sheep you, that doesn't mean I think Jae is obv town. I just think Creature has a far worse iso, and despite the above he isn't inactive anymore.

You both make decent points against each other here. I'm starting to think it could be SvS.

I'm just going to say that I believe you picked out a random from this list:
Almost50
Ranger
KuroiXHF
Charloux
JaeReed
Bellaphant
karnos
Kop
House
Chip Butty
Creature
Smithereens
LicketyQuickety
DixC
pistachi0n
sad1492
hiplop

and then ran with it. Most players are being unhelpful, and creature is agreeably the least helpful. I don't equate lack of participation with being scum however, so it's probably best for us to recommend he get replaced instead of killing him. The thing that pings me though is not the fact that you're after creature, but the fact that you've actively trying to distance yourself and others from the LQ wagon by picking on a player who you know is unlikely to defend himself. Reeks of fish if you ask me.

Players like Almost50 have been posting nothing but fluff and you don't care, so I'm suspicious that you single out the least active player to divert attention towards. Would you prefer to lynch creature over a player from the LQ wagon?

I got on Jae's case for doing hypothetcal analysis and you are doing the same here. Its not the kind of thing I usually see from you. For that reason, I think people should take a good look at your ISO Day 2.

"His posts have no useful content, but he is posting..."

I could use your reasoning to fabricate a case against nearly every player in this game. Makes me confident that you really are trying to distance from the LQ wagon = scum theory, which makes me more confident that the LQ wagon does indeed contain a large number of the scum in this game.

This is going to sound weird, but I don't like that you double posted here. Its like you are pretty confident that he is Scum. This is hypothetical, but a possible interpretation is that you are getting excited that you found someone from the other Scum faction that you think you have a good case against.

"His posts have no useful content, but he is posting..."

I could use your reasoning to fabricate a case against nearly every player in this game. Makes me confident that you really are trying to distance from the LQ wagon = scum theory, which makes me more confident that the LQ wagon does indeed contain a large number of the scum in this game.

My reasoning isn't the only criteria for fabricating a case

, my reasoning was explaining how you are blatantly wrong when you try to claim creature is inactive.

And while other posts might be equally unhelpful, I find creature's last post to be very scummy. It's like he knew LQ would flip town and wanted to go for the last second town cred.

Going to have to ask other people what they think about this, but it looks like he is admitting to fabricating a case here.

so it's probably best for us to recommend he get replaced instead of killing him.

I don't think that is how it works. If he is posting content at least once every 48 hours, and getting no prods, he shouldn't be replaced. You can't just have a player replaced because they aren't providing high quality posts. What you can do, is lynch that player.

VOTE: creature

Good vote. I don't see you on the same faction as Creature (who I think is Scum), but you very well could be part of the other Scum team. Im my last game that just ended, Creature admitted to lurking as Scum.

Alright, you go do your thing. I'm not too surprised that you refuse to credit a proposition that implicates your guilt so meh.

I'm Feeling like Smith doesn't want to look at Creature or karnos points on lynching a lurker.

P-Edit: Why do you think my response is contrived? What tells you that?

[LicketyQuickety]

@Pista, have you read any of LQ's games/played with him before?
Also Ranger is V/LA and the fact you didn't know this means you haven't even read this game...

@LQ, I don't disagree with his Creature read, however my view is that creature is just a side show to avoid drawing attention to your wagon which imo demonstrates guilty knowledge.

You are starting to slip. You are making assumptions.

[LicketyQuickety]

"You both make decent points against each other here. I'm starting to think it could be SvS."

I lol'ed. XD you must have a really low opinion of townies.

What makes you I think I have a low opinion of townies?

[LicketyQuickety]

@Pista, have you read any of LQ's games/played with him before?
Also Ranger is V/LA and the fact you didn't know this means you haven't even read this game...

@LQ, I don't disagree with his Creature read, however my view is that creature is just a side show to avoid drawing attention to your wagon which imo demonstrates guilty knowledge.

You are starting to slip. You are making assumptions.

? I don't quite follow. What assumption do you refer to?

That the Creature vote is a distraction.
That Pista isn't reading the game.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm going to bed. See you tomorrow.

[LicketyQuickety]

Here's my read on a back and forth from earlier:

Town morons just refuse to see that you are Town too.

I see this as chip is trying to insinuate that LQ should take hint: "I'm (pretending to be) town morons, other people (pretending to be town) should take the hint".

Then LQ responds:

And you are a Town read because you are not playing like an experienced player plays and inexperienced players are the easiest to read. Just FYI.

I see this as LQ trying to insinuate "You are a (pretend) town player because you are bad at playing and I can read what you are saying like an open book.

Then,

Have you ever noticed that those little guys roll their eyes in unison? How freaky is that?

As though to say "hey, i'm with scum" Chip insinuates himself as being linked with the only person near LQ on ranger's list: House.

Finally,

Chip, I get you, but you are confirmation biasing me pretty hard right now.

LQ gets frustrated with how blatant Chip is being and even says "hey, shut up about being scum before you get us both caught".

Baseless. Whith someone of your experience I expect more from you.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ you must not have known that Ranger was V/LA either... :\

ugh..

I did in fact know that Ranger was V/LA. What is your point?

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm really starting to thins Ranger could be Scum here. I think it might be a freudian slip when she says we've never been the same alignment.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why is the biggest wagon only 4 votes in a 17 player game?

Obviously, it is because Town is divided and Scum are not taking advantage of that.

[LicketyQuickety]

karnos: Post 409 (Though, I think you're different from Open 638 where you were scum.)

I didn't really look too much into JaeReed, but his posts ping town, I don't know what word I can use for how his posts look like.

I am getting a totally different vibe from Creature this game compared to the one that I just finished with him where I was Scum and he was Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

What's that different vibe?

You are not setting traps or being active or being confident in your towniness.

[LicketyQuickety]

You are not setting traps

Harder to do here.

or being active

I wanted to see this going on for a while.

or being confident in your towniness.

I am confident but I don't need to post every post I am town.

Now you are poking holes in my arguments which you didn't do once in the Newbie game, you just sorta stated things there because you knew you were Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

You are not setting traps

Harder to do here.

or being active

I wanted to see this going on for a while.

or being confident in your towniness.

I am confident but I don't need to post every post I am town.

Now you are poking holes in my arguments which you didn't do once in the Newbie game, you just sorta stated things there because you knew you were Town.

In the newbie game, is this newbie?

Explain the difference. Why should methods change from a newbie to a game like this?

[LicketyQuickety]

You are not setting traps

Harder to do here.

or being active

I wanted to see this going on for a while.

or being confident in your towniness.

I am confident but I don't need to post every post I am town.

Now you are poking holes in my arguments which you didn't do once in the Newbie game, you just sorta stated things there because you knew you were Town.

In the newbie game, is this newbie?

Explain the difference. Why should methods change from a newbie to a game like this?

Most of my methods hasn't changed, but this is a 17-player game rather than 9-player game, so some of my methods must've changed.

See this quote block here? This kind of thing never happened with you in the newbie game.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Pista,
What are your thoughts on Jae?

Also, it's well worth reading up on LQ. I had this feeling that the wagon was too opportunistic to be genuine and I've reached the belief that there isn't anything noticeably different about LQ from game to game. Certainly not enough for everyone to be scum reading him for it.

There was some opportunism in the LQ wagon, but it's Day 1 and multiball.

I don't like how Jae is being so weird about Ranger (first puts blind faith in her, then votes her because she disagrees with some of her lists, then unvotes her because "she's dead tonight anyway." I can't tell if that's fumbling scum or confused newbie town, though.

Huh.. I thought the opportunism to the LQ wagon was about me...

Don't worry it still is.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm playing like shit this game sorry

That you are. A couple things you can do to fix this are:

1) Explain more
2) Post more.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ok. I have noted the history and I still dislike your interaction with Ranger.

That's fine, dislike away.

lazy, but not incorrect. If we can nail obv!scum today, we can do the harder stuff when the huge amount of scum has thinned a bit

I could also vote pista still. That question to ranger is super counter productive.

@hippy, what do you need?

It is indeed incorrect. This isn't a scum Charl, I think. I also believe that you should know that. It looks like you want to thin town, not scum. You're feeling out support for mislynches and it feels scummy.

I also think pista is town. The question was bad, yes, but the question is whether that makes her scum or not. Why do you believe she's more likely to ask that question as scum rather than town?

I'll be honest here, it seems like you're not even really trying to actually scumhunt. It's all shallow from what I've seen the past few days. I know you can do better than this.

Why is it optimal strategy for Scum to mislynch? I don't think you have answered that so it is not a given.

How does pista's question make them look Town?

YOU are not really Scum hunting either. I can prolly count on one hand the actual questions you have asked people.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why is it optimal strategy for Scum to mislynch? I don't think you have answered that so it is not a given.

How does pista's question make them look Town?

YOU are not really Scum hunting either. I can prolly count on one hand the actual questions you have asked people.

Because there's more town than scum so they want to thin town before night killing each other?

That question doesn't. It also doesn't make them look scum, when the rest of their ISO seems town to me. Ergo, still townreading despite a bad question that doesn't make her look scum.

I don't care if you don't think I'm scumhunting. I'm doing my own analysis and asking questions when I need to. I think Bella isn't analyzing what's in the thread properly, ergo, shallow scumhunting. Which is not really scumhunting.

That is a very shallow answer. If you want to be good at this game, you are going to have to do better than this.

Then why do you have pista as Town? You haven't answered this. What about the ISO makes them look Town?

Don't try to push this off on other people. Take some responsibility and actually Scum hunt.

The reason I want YOU to explain what you are doing is because I don't want you to just state things as given when they are not. I have problems with the way you play the game because you go off on these tangents that are in all likelihood, not very probable.

[LicketyQuickety]

Hi, sorry I haven't been very active there is a big game I am playing in that is taking my time away from this one that is off site.

I'll try and reread some stuff.

[LicketyQuickety]

Are you still convinced you're going to die tonight?

I don't recall saying I would.

But in my experience, my rate of mortality is directly correlated to my rate of annoyance to the scum. So it really depends on just how annoying I am to them.

There's some stuff in your iso like in 373. Looking back, you didn't specify tonight--still, why are you so emphatic that you're dead?

It's a gambit.

I'm satisfied with Jae and Ranger's responses: not satisfied with LQ's he should have pegged me for the poorly defended town-read on him.

I get your point.. I do. I just have a lot of games going on and I didn't get around to your crazy bug huge letter thing.

[LicketyQuickety]

Are you still convinced you're going to die tonight?

I don't recall saying I would.

But in my experience, my rate of mortality is directly correlated to my rate of annoyance to the scum. So it really depends on just how annoying I am to them.

There's some stuff in your iso like in 373. Looking back, you didn't specify tonight--still, why are you so emphatic that you're dead?

It's a gambit.

I'm satisfied with Jae and Ranger's responses: not satisfied with LQ's he should have pegged me for the poorly defended town-read on him.

I get your point.. I do. I just have a lot of games going on and I didn't get around to your crazy bug huge letter thing.

And I didn't follow up with Jae like I wanted to either.

[LicketyQuickety]

Here's my

would

lynch pile:

KuroiXHF
Charloux
JaeReed
karnos
House
Creature
pistachi0n

[LicketyQuickety]

Here's my

would

lynch pile:

KuroiXHF
Charloux
JaeReed
karnos
House
Creature
pistachi0n

And I'm on the top of this list. Yeah, boy!

The order means nothing. I just went down the list.

[LicketyQuickety]

Votes are way too spread out.. don't like that. We need to start consolidating BW's now.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: DixC

Just a big nothing vote; cute.

LQ doesn't consolidation make it easier for a bad kill to happen?

I don't follow. Possibly, but its better for Town to see eye to eye IMO. Town can't win without lynching Scum.. If everyone does what I do, its easier to decide who is Scummiest. Will bad night kills happen because of this? IDK. What's stopping bad NKs from happening if we don't consolidate?

[LicketyQuickety]

Here's my

would

lynch pile:

KuroiXHF
Charloux
JaeReed
karnos
House
Creature
pistachi0n

This list... Has the players i generally like and would want to see in D2 at least. Well no comment on House and pista though.
But i think LQ is just 100% emotional and is just holding a grudge on your ex-wagon. Liking him as townish.
@Almost: Is your first priority in the game to have fun or to win?

Kuroi is someone I wouldn't miss being around - they are not a stellar player
Charloux hasn't really had any new contribution that can't be easily faked as Scum
Jae is one of my Scum reads and someone I wouldn't mind seeing gone because they don't support their reads with anything tangible
Karnos I have been Scum reading all game
House I am Scum reading for trying to flip the tables on people one too many times
Creature I am Scum reading because they haven't played like I know them to play as Town.
pistachi0n is just a gut read that I think I could play without them in the game.

[LicketyQuickety]

Here's my

would

lynch pile:

KuroiXHF
Charloux
JaeReed
karnos
House
Creature
pistachi0n

This list... Has the players i generally like and would want to see in D2 at least. Well no comment on House and pista though.
But i think LQ is just 100% emotional and is just holding a grudge on your ex-wagon. Liking him as townish.
@Almost: Is your first priority in the game to have fun or to win?

Kuroi is someone I wouldn't miss being around - they are not a stellar player
Charloux hasn't really had any new contribution that can't be easily faked as Scum
Jae is one of my Scum reads and someone I wouldn't mind seeing gone because they don't support their reads with anything tangible
Karnos I have been Scum reading all game
House I am Scum reading for trying to flip the tables on people one too many times
Creature I am Scum reading because they haven't played like I know them to play as Town.
pistachi0n is just a gut read that I think I could play without them in the game.

Your reads are shit and your reasonings are shit. Ask me about any of my reads and I'll tell you my reasoning. You hating my playstyle is NAI.

Note that ranger is not on this list, who he has been touting as scum.

Plus this list is mostly ppl I'm townreading.

I asked you many times to substantiate your reads with something and you never delivered. Am I wrong on that?

[LicketyQuickety]

Vote: Sad

My first serious vote. He's posting quite a bit, and they appear to have depth, but it comes across to defensive.

Defensiveness isn't always a scum tell. Shoulda just stopped at that he was posting quite a bit and they appear to have depth.

God damn, this must be the reason I was Scum read so hard. I admit I can see how this makes me look Scummy. Only defense I can offer is that I wasn't really paying attention to what was happening in the thread, was just arguing with Kuroi stupidly because I didn't think they were being a troll face.

[LicketyQuickety]

Here's my

would

lynch pile:

KuroiXHF
Charloux
JaeReed
karnos
House
Creature
pistachi0n

This list... Has the players i generally like and would want to see in D2 at least. Well no comment on House and pista though.
But i think LQ is just 100% emotional and is just holding a grudge on your ex-wagon. Liking him as townish.
@Almost: Is your first priority in the game to have fun or to win?

Kuroi is someone I wouldn't miss being around - they are not a stellar player
Charloux hasn't really had any new contribution that can't be easily faked as Scum
Jae is one of my Scum reads and someone I wouldn't mind seeing gone because they don't support their reads with anything tangible
Karnos I have been Scum reading all game
House I am Scum reading for trying to flip the tables on people one too many times
Creature I am Scum reading because they haven't played like I know them to play as Town.
pistachi0n is just a gut read that I think I could play without them in the game.

Your reads are shit and your reasonings are shit. Ask me about any of my reads and I'll tell you my reasoning. You hating my playstyle is NAI.

Note that ranger is not on this list, who he has been touting as scum.

Plus this list is mostly ppl I'm townreading.

I asked you many times to substantiate your reads with something and you never delivered. Am I wrong on that?

As far as I know this was only regarding my scumread of you? That's one read. I can accommodate if that's what you want but there was no point earlier to me since I can't convince scum why they're scum. At least that's the theory I was running off, which is stated in the wiki.

Not explaining your reads is reserved for people who are far and above superior at reading people.. those kinds of people always die early because their reads are always on the mark. You are not in the same caliber as them, I'm afraid.

But going to look at your wiki now.

[LicketyQuickety]

Vote: Sad

My first serious vote. He's posting quite a bit, and they appear to have depth, but it comes across to defensive.

Defensiveness isn't always a scum tell. Shoulda just stopped at that he was posting quite a bit and they appear to have depth.

God damn, this must be the reason I was Scum read so hard. I admit I can see how this makes me look Scummy. Only defense I can offer is that I wasn't really paying attention to what was happening in the thread, was just arguing with Kuroi stupidly because I didn't think they were being a troll face.

This is one of the things that makes you look scum to me. You're less concerned with finding scum than looking through your own iso to guess at how you're not looking town.

Town doesn't need to do that because they know they'll flip town. It feels self preservationist which is more likely to come from a minority mindset imo.

I wasn't reading my ISO, I was rereading the thread.

[LicketyQuickety]

Errr my wiki has nothing? I'm new. I read the wiki before my first game.

Some people do it by the book
But I prefer to go by feel, tell me



I can tell you right now I have more experience than you do playing this game. Mafia is about learning how YOU play, not something that you can just get good at by reading about it. So while you can learn how to play by reading the wiki, you are never going to be a top tier player playing based on what is on the wiki. You can get pretty good, granted you can execute, but the top tier players are the ones who are writing those articles on optimal play. How much more do you think they know that they don't bother to make into an article?

I'll be the first to admit I am a lazy player, and its my downfall because I make mistakes that are so obvious, but when I am paying attention I am actually pretty dangerous to Scum.

I should also drop this now rather than later but I've seen a lot of different looks and different playstyles. Doesn't make me good at the game, but it tells that I have experience. I am basically a donkey - and experienced player who isn't very good. Another way of putting it is that I would be like your pro football player who has been in the game a while but is just not top tier material.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LQ

@Bella the exchange between House and Lickety last page... Scum theatre? By which I mean do you think they could be of the same faction?

Why do you suspect we'd be scum of the same faction, specifically? Is it because neither one of us share your scum PT?

This worries me a bit. Obviously, only scum from the same faction could stage theater, since scum from different factions would be unknown to each other at this point. Sketchy attempt to throw shade on Jae?

Obviously I couldn't stage theatre with anyone even if I

were

scum, considering I replaced in after the game started.

So yes, I'm throwing Jae's accusation back in their face because it was a stupid premise.

I think Jae has the right answer to this: It's not rocket science to follow a scum partner's lead, even without daytalk. It's not a "stupid" premise, and your calling it such looks like an overreaction. Also, Jae is right to point out that you seemed quick to jump onto his question to Bella to hose this down.

For the sake of argument, let's say that scum CAN stage conversations even without Daytalk. This brings us back to your question about why Jae assumed staging to be between scum of the same faction. If staging IS possible, it is obvious it can only be between scum of the same faction, right?

@Jae: Curious - why did you ask the question about LQ's exchange with House on that page, but not his earlier exchange on the same page with the "other House", aka Kuroi?

Scum theatre is a little more complicated than this. In this game there is only one goon per Scum faction so Scum have to be careful not to over expose themselves as PR. If Scum are to do Scum theatre its going to have to have some kind of structure to it so that things don't go awry. I expect Scum theatre in this game considering there is a GF and Alpha, however.

[LicketyQuickety]

(and it has to be tonight because I am sure she is dying tonight regardless of alignment).

Well, I am gonna die tonight since there's no town doctor, but devil's advocate, the only way I'd die N1 as scum is if we lynched my faction's doctor or if I was in fact my faction's doctor.

But this is true enough. Last multiball game, I nailed both scum and for my trouble ate the N1 nightkill as scum.

I have to admit, I've placed you in my top-tier for town, but I'm not absolutely sure you're town. It's more like you have

such

a good grasp of me, and where I'm coming from, that you'd be breaking my heart if you were scum.

...Also, pretty sure you'd get nightkilled too.

I'm doing this for mine and to see how far off the mark I am when/if she does explain it.

As hinted above, you're scarily close.

@Ranger when you get back... What did you think of these parts of Bella's post?

Well, Bella's still low on my list. I think she's not the highest-priority lynch. She seems to have some content which is good and looks to be scumhunting, but I think there is a very significant chance she's scum.

WIFOM extravaganza here. No mention that its possible Ranger could be Scum Doc here. And some pretty hard core buddying with Jae on top of it.

[LicketyQuickety]

Lets try something else.

VOTE: Smithereens

[LicketyQuickety]

Ranger seems a bit different here to games we've played in where she was Town, or where I think she is Town. Not sure yet, but this is some of what is standing out to me a bit...

(and it has to be tonight because I am sure she is dying tonight regardless of alignment).

Well, I am gonna die tonight

since there's no town doctor, but devil's advocate, the only way I'd die N1 as scum is if we lynched my faction's doctor or if I was in fact my faction's doctor.

But this is true enough. Last multiball game, I nailed both scum and for my trouble ate the N1 nightkill as scum.

I don't remember Ranger making this kind of coded "I am Town" statement before. Seems to be laying the groundwork for why she might survive N1 as scum.

Ranger's posts have been completely null to me.

It's multiball.

Multiball

.

You don't need to read me.

Like, at all.

I'm dead.

Like, no matter what,

I'm a corpse before the end of the game

.

The story has changed a bit. Now she is predicting she will die by the end of the game, not N1...

Are you still convinced you're going to die tonight?

I don't recall saying I would

.

But in my experience, my rate of mortality is directly correlated to my rate of annoyance to the scum. So it really depends on just how annoying I am to them.

It is not like Ranger to "forget" something she has said fairly emphatically...
By my calculation, your average NK death is on night 2.05. Do you keep statistics for multiball specifically?

still, why are you so emphatic that you're dead?

I dunno, it's a subject in the thread so it's a subject I talked about?

I'm pretty sure I wasn't the one who started the discussion.

Evasive answer. Sure, it was a topic in the thread, and something valid to talk about. But why not answer the question?
And yes, Jae seems to have been the first to raise the topic afaics, so there's that - but what was the point of pointing that out?

Not a lot, but enough to raise doubts in my mind about Ranger's Towniness. I need to finish doing my own reads before I make an assessment of hers. I have found that, when we are both Town, are reads line up to a large degree. However, I expect that to happen when I am Town and Ranger is scum, but with an anomaly or two (someone I scumread getting a high tier from Ranger, or someone I Townread getting a low tier). o far I haven't spotted anything really obvious, but I'll be in a better position to assess that when I've completed my reads and reread LQ.

Great post.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LQ

@Bella the exchange between House and Lickety last page... Scum theatre? By which I mean do you think they could be of the same faction?

Why do you suspect we'd be scum of the same faction, specifically? Is it because neither one of us share your scum PT?

This worries me a bit. Obviously, only scum from the same faction could stage theater, since scum from different factions would be unknown to each other at this point. Sketchy attempt to throw shade on Jae?

Obviously I couldn't stage theatre with anyone even if I

were

scum, considering I replaced in after the game started.

So yes, I'm throwing Jae's accusation back in their face because it was a stupid premise.

I think Jae has the right answer to this: It's not rocket science to follow a scum partner's lead, even without daytalk. It's not a "stupid" premise, and your calling it such looks like an overreaction. Also, Jae is right to point out that you seemed quick to jump onto his question to Bella to hose this down.

For the sake of argument, let's say that scum CAN stage conversations even without Daytalk. This brings us back to your question about why Jae assumed staging to be between scum of the same faction. If staging IS possible, it is obvious it can only be between scum of the same faction, right?

@Jae: Curious - why did you ask the question about LQ's exchange with House on that page, but not his earlier exchange on the same page with the "other House", aka Kuroi?

Scum theatre is a little more complicated than this. In this game there is only one goon per Scum faction so Scum have to be careful not to over expose themselves as PR. If Scum are to do Scum theatre its going to have to have some kind of structure to it so that things don't go awry. I expect Scum theatre in this game considering there is a GF and Alpha, however.

Why does a GF and Alpha mean scum theatre is more likely?

I mean Chip summed up a lot of my thoughts surrounding the scum theatre talk and I'm thinking he's town for it. It could be buddying but I doubt it'd be that close and unprompted. Plus I'm hardly an ideal person to buddy. I'd imagine scum would want to buddy either someone dangerous to them or someone widely townread.

Regardless, I don't get how more complicated scum theatre can be. It's staged to look like you're not partners, and so long as your partner isn't a complete newb and catches on to what you're doing I can't see a need to have pre planned?

Let me put it to you this way: What makes GF and ALPHA a powerful role? You know this I know you do, your just not getting it because its me saying it. Basically the dynamic with GF is different because they can be way more lenient with their Town reads on their buddies. So really GF has the option of either buddying up to people and hinting like they want a check on them, and/or they can give all their Scum buddies big Townie points if they thing they will make it far into the game (through getting a check on them) and they can engage in dialog almost openly with their Scum buddies itt because once they get checked people will be none the wise. So basically there is not as much reason to distance if you are GF. But GF can play a lot of different ways depending on the team - its a very flexible role. As Town what we want to do is just like any other game which is my biggest tell for catching Scum which I wont say cuz I don't want to give too much away.

[LicketyQuickety]

I can tell you right now I have more experience than you do playing this game. Mafia is about learning how YOU play, not something that you can just get good at by reading about it. So while you can learn how to play by reading the wiki, you are never going to be a top tier player playing based on what is on the wiki. You can get pretty good, granted you can execute, but the top tier players are the ones who are writing those articles on optimal play. How much more do you think they know that they don't bother to make into an article?

I'll be the first to admit I am a lazy player, and its my downfall because I make mistakes that are so obvious, but when I am paying attention I am actually pretty dangerous to Scum.

I should also drop this now rather than later but I've seen a lot of different looks and different playstyles. Doesn't make me good at the game, but it tells that I have experience. I am basically a donkey - and experienced player who isn't very good. Another way of putting it is that I would be like your pro football player who has been in the game a while but is just not top tier material.

I know you do. Most people have more experience than me. That's a part of what makes playing in opens particularly hard for me.

I'm still trying to learn how to play. This is my first multiball for example. I've read them but never played them. The only way I'm going to figure shit out is by playing. I do my research then I try it out.

I apparently always play terribly either A) in opens, or B) in games with Ranger.

I appreciate the advice. I am trying. It's frustrating that in my newbies I never got a non scrum IC. Out of 3 games. One game I was dubbed obvtown and I don't even really know why aside from some kind of expectation of posting activity which I'm thinking was bs because it came from scum IC.

I shouldn't even be posting right now tbh since I'm drunk and ppl bitch about drunk posters.

To sum this up, I am not a role model on how to play.. I have funky reasoning that no one gets, I don't play by the book and I miss a lot of really obvious stuff that causes a lot of heat on me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ok jae, more like that and I'll be able to read you.

LQ, I didn't mind your initial scum list (house and jae might be town, pista prolly isn't, charl prolly isn't) I'm curious as to why you moved your vote to smithereens? I'm pretty sure they are town and their preceding post wasn't anything scummy?

My vote on Smith has to do with my reread.

[LicketyQuickety]

(house and jae might be town

You've been town leaning me for a long time, but I don't recall you ever saying why.

Enlighten me?

You are you always around when I am around?

[LicketyQuickety]

@house, interactions with hippy, the fake hammer thing (tbf I don't see it much: bbt does it some as town), prodding at pista, response to pressure over the setup thing.

@lq...that's super unhelpful. Try again?

In short, Smith is White knighting me.

[LicketyQuickety]

(house and jae might be town

You've been town leaning me for a long time, but I don't recall you ever saying why.

Enlighten me?

You are you always around when I am around?

What is this about?

you have made a post directly after me many times in this game. I can't help but feel you may be doing this on purpose. Why would you do that?

[LicketyQuickety]

@Almost: Is your first priority in the game to have fun or to win?

As simple as it may look, that's a tough one, tbh. I do hate to lose alright, but if I'm not having fun what IS the point of playing the game in the first place?

OK, let me try to take a peek into my own mind: I start the game with a -somewhat- humorous/sarcastic approach, then when things start to shape up i get a little bit more serious. I do aim to win, but I sometimes wait for that magical moment where I get a revelation out of thin air and follow it.

I don't think I making much sense with this answer either, but it's as an honest response as I could give one.

You should really interact with me sometime.

[LicketyQuickety]

(house and jae might be town

You've been town leaning me for a long time, but I don't recall you ever saying why.

Enlighten me?

You are you always around when I am around?

What is this about?

you have made a post directly after me many times in this game. I can't help but feel you may be doing this on purpose. Why would you do that?

Clearly, I'm stalking you.

You should consider getting a restraining order.

No, I'm not taking this lightly. Why are you posting immediately after me?

[LicketyQuickety]

Fuck this.

No game is worth this amount of retardation and wall bashing.

Stop ignoring my fucking posts or I'll just rep out because I can't deal with your bullshit

Bro, relax, drink some ice tea or something.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

I've come full circle.

OK, lets here it. Why am I Scum?

[LicketyQuickety]

For one, there is this:

Let me put it to you this way: What makes GF and ALPHA a powerful role? You know this I know you do, your just not getting it because its me saying it. Basically the dynamic with GF is different because they can be way more lenient with their Town reads on their buddies. So really GF has the option of either buddying up to people and hinting like they want a check on them, and/or they can give all their Scum buddies big Townie points if they thing they will make it far into the game (through getting a check on them) and they can engage in dialog almost openly with their Scum buddies itt because once they get checked people will be none the wise. So basically there is not as much reason to distance if you are GF. But GF can play a lot of different ways depending on the team - its a very flexible role. As Town what we want to do is just like any other game which is my biggest tell for catching Scum which I wont say cuz I don't want to give too much away.

A green check doesn't mean shit in this game, and not just because of Alpha and GF roles. Cop investigates someone, gets a not-mafia result, who cares? The investigate could still be a wolf. Seer & Cop can't coordinate, so there is no such thing as a cop-vouched townie in this game. Only guaranteed scum and maybe-not-scum.

I don't have time for your piss poor argument right now. I might address this later if you're lucky.

[LicketyQuickety]

For one, there is this:
A green check doesn't mean shit in this game, and not just because of Alpha and GF roles. Cop investigates someone, gets a not-mafia result, who cares? The investigate could still be a wolf. Seer & Cop can't coordinate, so there is no such thing as a cop-vouched townie in this game. Only guaranteed scum and maybe-not-scum.

I don't have time for your piss poor argument right now. I migh address this later if you're lucky.

It was a good argument? I bet you wrote something like this because you know he is right, but you don't want to admit it. Too bad i can't see your face...

Its discussing Mafia Theory which is almost always NAI.

[LicketyQuickety]

Three days left?

VOTE: DixC

Yeah, no shit.

We have to start thinking about BW's now, like seriously. Votes are spread all over the place. We need to start thinking about maybe three people to lynch.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: DixC

[LicketyQuickety]

Vote LicketyQuickety for lynch, 2016. Make Town great again!

To sum this up, I am not a role model on how to play.. I have funky reasoning that no one gets, I don't play by the book and I miss a lot of really obvious stuff that causes a lot of heat on me.

This. Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or serious. Either way it's a common scum tell.

Scum constantly acts sarcastic in the thread so that when he makes an actual scum slip he can just call it "OBVIOUS SARCASM".

In the alternate universe where LQ is being serious, he is basically saying he acts like scum all the time, so if you read him as scum it's really just his town game that looks like scum. Yeah sure dude, nice cover.

Please, I'm not stupid. I am prepared to link MORE games to prove my point, but you didn't ask about that because you are Scum trying to shade me. Consider the context here.. I was being serious. Jae went on and on about how they idolize Ranger, so I was simply pointing out that I am not someone to be idolized.

Here's my

would

lynch pile:

KuroiXHF
Charloux
JaeReed
karnos
House
Creature
pistachi0n

Seven names and you would happy to lynch any of them. I guess it would be too obvious if you listed everyone outside of your scum team, so you had to draw the line somewhere, right? I just find this odd. Usually you try to find scum, and then lynch the most likely scum. I don't think I have ever seen a towny before say he was willing to lynch any of SEVEN different "scum".

Again, you lack context because you are trying to provide a case on me as Scum. Its day 1, which means we have prolly the worst chance at our reads being correct at this time. I am not only stating here what people I thinki are Scum, but what people will also have a good chance at being problematic going forward in this game. Furthermore these are old reads and mine have changed since.. specifically since rereading the thread.

Links or it didn't happen.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8023311

One lousy link is the best you could do, huh? Not buying it with one game. You implied multiple games you have see this, unless you are just really new to this game and think one game means something.

This is incredibly telling to me. You complain about it just being a single link, but you obviously didn't even click on it. I linked back to this very game, it's not another game's example. You aren't trying to solve the game, you are just trying to respond and look like you are busy without doing the work.

Believe it or not this makes you look more guilty than me.. What is one game going to tell me? A lot of crazy shit happens in a game once. You implied this happened multiple times and that it was a pattern that you have noticed. The fact that you can't back this up properly is what is really telling IMO. I called you out on this saying you are lying if you couldn't provide more than one link and you STILL have yet to do that.



Let me ask you something: how well do you think you are doing this game?

[LicketyQuickety]

Karnos, I visited you link and it seems you can't even provide one game where Scum have acted like they were not Scum after a lynch. If you can't even provide one lousy link, then I am going to do this:

VOTE: Karnos

[LicketyQuickety]

There's no disagreeing with it any more, VOTE: JaeReed for Mafia (and/or Werewolf, or, whatever scum-species indeterminate term is preferred; or not). I agree LQ & Jae are playing like different factions, so one gives a great deal of tell on the other.

Its funny that you say this cuz I was actually starting to come around to the idea that Jae could be Town here.

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel like I want to vote NM.. Hmm

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel like I want to vote NM.. Hmm

Why? I don't feel like that lynch will give us any information since I haven't really seen much of note from him yet. Preferably D1 we want a strong chance of flipping scum while also being informative, I think. Do you disagree with my theory?

I don't but a few things to add.

1) NM has been prodded twice now and said they would catch up and be a good little player and participate which they have failed to do.

DixC wagon is awful

Rereading. This is correct.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: A50

This is actually a better wagon. Based off what I'm seeing in my reread and my analysis of my own wagon.

His entry to the game would have been townish if not for the whole thing about being at L3 before even posting and being good at obv!towning. Then when kuroi claimed scum he made this big deal about fosing but not voting that just reads really weird and like he doesn't want to get flak for it.

When kuroi claimed the three of them were scum with house he ran this "who else???" Comment instead of running with the onvious joke. It seems really disingenuous.

In retrospect (and I can't believe I forgot this) "slips" such as using mafia when you meant to say town and such are said on the wiki to not read too far into. I would assume this applies to dixC's use of mafia instead of scum and seer instead of investigative/cop/cop or seer. What he was getting at with the first appears to be just a vote for claiming scum, and the second questioning whether alpha/godfather. I still need to read more in this reread to figure out if i still think he's scum, but my slips mean Jack shit.

2) I actually like the DixC wagon because by their own admission they are #2 on the list to lynch. Seems like a decent lynch to me since it is kinda by way of default fulfilling criteria #1 as lightly admitting to be Scum through being on the #2 list.

I also haven't at all liked the stances that DixC has taken or the methods they used to get reads.

3) I don't at all like that you are viewing things from the POV of your own wagon. Its just not at all solid and something that can be fabricated since no one really knows if you are Scum or not.

DixC wagon is awful, JR is definitely scum. I've been spectating, but I am going to re read now.

For now
VOTE: JR

DixC wagon is awful

Rereading. This is correct.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: A50

Wait, Shotty replaces in (Welcome aboard!) and says the Dix wagon is awful, and doesn't give reasons. Right away you agree and take your vote off Dix, ostensibly after rereading?

BUT you ignore the second thing he said ("JR is definitely scum") and his vote on you.

Could you walk us through that please?

For the record, I'm nullscum or worse on Dix atm, but I like my vote on the House slot. Will change to avoid a no-lynch. More likely to Dix than to Jae at this point, but Dix hasn't really posted enough for me to get a very clear read on him.

Yeah I decided to do a reread while shotty was for a fresh perspective and final thoughts and analysis. It's the least I can do at this stage along with analyzing my own wagon and going out voting my top scumread. I unvoted when I reached the point that I was remembering as a slip. I realized it wasn't a slip. LQ was correct with his back and forth with House over that.

I can't sort shotty based off that one post. I don't know if I think he's misreading me as town or misreading me as scum. That's another reason a reread at this point in the game is a good thing. I'll have more of an idea where his mind is at to sort him.

4) This I don't like at all. Not only is it an incomplete answer, but Chip made some good points here that I am considering as well.

So out of curiosity what's this magical case you guys have? I wanna see it so I know which of you is dumb and which is scum.

I've already said that I don't like your interactions with Ranger. You also have the same overvigilant thing going on that House does.

This is a really weak reason. Town buddy just as often as scum. What you need to look at there is what each of us were trying to achieve with that, if anything.

You seem to me to just want to lynch the noisy players. Why do you dislike hyper vigilantism? Why do you feel that's a scum trait? Why do you want to remove the players who are putting the most content in to the thread?

I don't want to lynch the noisy players--like Almost, or Kurio. Ranger hasn't been very noisy this game (especially compared to other games I've played with her) and I'm scumreading her. I dislike the something out of nothing reads--I'm not sure how to elaborate or explain what I'm talking about, because I'm not very good with words, but I mean like "there are 6 scum and you only have 4 scumreads, why?"

And with this I am back to Scum reading Jae. TBH I can see a world where this back and forth is SvS.

FoS Jae.

[LicketyQuickety]

Jae,

if what you say is true, I have to say I really expect and ISO case on Almost50 at this point. Almost is like one of my top Town reads so I don't think I will be voting them today without some really strong evidence to back it up.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: KuroiXHF

For pretending to be Mafia.

This feel super scum

Why? Doesn't look like that particular post is too scummy from my angle.

[LicketyQuickety]

Vote Count #1.13:

JaeReed:

Kop, hiplop, Smithereens, Almost50, DixC, pistachi0n, drmyshottyizsik (7)

DixC:

Not_Mafia, Vedith, Bellaphant, Ranger (4)

Almost50:

JaeReed, KuroiXHF, Charloux (3)

LicketyQuickety:

karnos (1)

karnos:

LicketyQuickety (1)

Vedith:

Chip Butty (1)

Not Voting:

None.

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-06-30 18:20:00)

I thought my vote was on DixC?

VOTE: DixC

[LicketyQuickety]

Also,
VOTE: LicketyQuickety.

Why? Why are you doing this?

[LicketyQuickety]

Also,
VOTE: LicketyQuickety.

Why? Why are you doing this?

You've been saying that since:

Also,
VOTE: LicketyQuickety.

Why? Why are you doing this?

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty}
{Bellaphant}
{LicketyQuickety}

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty, Smithereens, Kop, pistachi0n}
{sad}
{Bellaphant, DixC}
{House}
{LicketyQuickety}

Explain these lists, please.

Yeah, and I'll keep asking until I actually get an answer, even if I have to ask after the game is over.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also,
VOTE: LicketyQuickety.

Why? Why are you doing this?

You've been saying that since:

Also,
VOTE: LicketyQuickety.

Why? Why are you doing this?

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty}
{Bellaphant}
{LicketyQuickety}

{karnos, hiplop}
{JaeReed, Charloux, Kuroi}
{Creature, Almost50}
{Chip Butty, Smithereens, Kop, pistachi0n}
{sad}
{Bellaphant, DixC}
{House}
{LicketyQuickety}

Explain these lists, please.

Yeah, and I'll keep asking until I actually get an answer, even if I have to ask after the game is over.

Let's be honest here: that's really fair.

IDK if you're trying to buddy me or pocket me or whatever other term you use where you come from, but believe me when I tell you it won't have and effect on the way I read your slot.

[LicketyQuickety]

Can we lynch Not_Mafia? Like what have they really done for us?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[LicketyQuickety]

Can we lynch Not_Mafia? Like what have they really done for us?

About as much as the next man.

That is to say, your reasons for voting Not_Mafia are clearly not motivated by the desire to kill scum.

FYI, we're going to run out of townies very soon, please think before you vote.

What are you even talking about? NM replaced sad who was yet another lurk sack. In what world is what NM is doing pro-Town?

[LicketyQuickety]

Replacing drmyshottyizsik due to a site ban unrelated to this game.

That's great. That's just GREAT! How am I 9or anyone) supposed to get a read on a slot that has been occupied by 3 different players already and we're only at the start of D2??

VOTE: almost 50

I get the vote there, that was pretty bad Almost. I don't think I like bella not poking Almost50 more before the vote though.

[LicketyQuickety]

I get the vote there, that was pretty bad Almost. I don't think I like bella not poking Almost50 more before the vote though.

What was bad? me expressing discontent with 3 players swapping a single slot between them?? How would you like me to replace out now and then someone comes in my place only to get banned a few hours later and someone NEW subs in for them?? Would that help you get a better read on my slot either way??

Don't give me that line, please. What you said was over the top and I know scum to do that more often than Town. As far as what the comment actually said, its a bit short sighted considering its only day 2. Along with that your comment really provides no scum hunting or analysis or anything that I can even consider pro-town. In short, you are acting like the game is basically over because one slot replaced a couple times early in the game. Saying it like this really puts it in perspective doesn't it?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Ranger

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm voting Ranger because they think I have to be Alpha WW.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm voting Ranger because they think I have to be Alpha WW.

Why alpha specifically?

Because she is Scum and tripped up saying I couldn't be Mafia.

[LicketyQuickety]

OTOH, I still don't trust LQ enough to vote with him, so maybe hiplop is the better vote for now. We can watch how the Ranger v LQ thing develops, and go from there.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: hiplop

That's better. I think BOTH hiplop & LQ are connected. I'm not sure which side they would belong to (the seer would get a clear on Mafia still), but I had it down here earlier that these two were on the same side and I thought Jae was on the other side (which was -obviously- a wrong read).

I would rather LQ though to confirm whether this link is more likely. If LQ flips wolf then YES, plus either Chalroux or Titus. If he flips Mafia though the bond with hiplop is less likely (but still possible) since it will be ONE of hiplop/Charloux/Titus.

LOL. And if I flip Town?

[LicketyQuickety]

Why should I think even about the possibility of you flipping town when I'm convinced you're scum??

Because I'm Town, duh. Not even going to entertain the possibility? That's beyond sloppy.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm going to entertain the possibility when I do see it. If I had a realistic probability of you flipping town I would not have voted you. Your arguments are getting sillier by the post btw.

But you know what?? Humour me. Who do you think is scum and why. How come you want the town seer lynched?

Because I don't believe she is the Town seer. Its a BS claim that I have seen Ranger do before. Honestly I think Ranger is just seeing what they can get away with.

What's silly about my argument? I said you had a shitty comment and people agreed. Now you are acting like you are confident of you Scum read. I find this a "derp" account of actions I am seeing from you. When questioned of your confidence you double down and try and turn the tables on me.

What makes you believe the claim of Ranger?

I will have to reread some things to get a list of who I think is Scum.. my heart is just not in this game currently so I am just commenting on things as they come up.

[LicketyQuickety]

What makes you believe the claim of Ranger?

Well, the fact there IS a seer in the setup with no CC or even a hint of one for starters. Then my knowledge of Ranger as I don't think she would risk being CC'd for no apparent reason. She was not at L-1 or L-2. She just came out of the blue to claim she checked on you, and -even more- that she did NOT get a guilty, thus deducing you must be the Alpha Wolf.

Now I do realize the last part is speculative and you could indeed be either town or Mafia, but it's not about that. I'm addressing the issue of why I do believe Ranger's claim to be the seer.

So, me scum reading you does coincide with Ranger's (or anyone else's) promotion for your lynch, which is apparently why I'm voting you. Two separate issues: My read of you as "scum" and my belief of Ranger's claim to be the seer should now be clear to you.

Ask yourself why Seer should out themselves because of Rangers claim. Its a claim that they investigated me and I came up innocent, but Ranger was still convinced I was Alpha WW with no reason given for that particular read. What does Seer have to gain from outing themselves? I'll tell you.. they gain a lynch on Ranger who appears to be making a bogus claim while ensuring their own death by NK.

[LicketyQuickety]

They are joking about the rolecop, which means they didn't really answer my question though.

Nonetheless, my statement was accurate. LicketyQuickety will flip Alpha Werewolf.

WRONG!

K, so I'm willing to flip myself if it means Ranger is the next lynch.

Because she is Scum and tripped up saying I couldn't be Mafia.

This would be valid on D1 with no flips.
It's not D1.

I haven't fully diverged my scumreads into scumteams yet, but I can start today.
And you, my friend, are a werewolf, and more specifically, the investigation-immune alpha werewolf.

You make me sick Ranger.


OK, so lets make this a proper 1v1. Either myself or Ranger is getting voted off today. Fair?

[LicketyQuickety]

Ranger, if you really are Seer and actually think I am Alpha WW, I might just be blacklisting you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ranger--since you are not claiming an investigation, why are you sure that LQ is the alpha werewolf specifically?

I'll tell you after he's lynched if it's that important for you to know.

Until then, I don't see how revealing why I know would do any good.

The only way you could know

for sure

who the alpha werewolf is is if you are a werewolf. Otherwise, you can have a

strong suspicion

, but you are not certain.

So, I think you're full of shit.

Huh.. this is weird. I mean, its not totally out of the norm for a Scum person to defend someone, but the tone of this post is pretty telling. Gunna have to reevaluate Pistachi0n.

[LicketyQuickety]

It's posts like that ^ which explain why Ranger is the source of so much attention.

Indeed they are.

It's called "scum don't like that I'm right about them and am refusing explain how I nailed them".

Lets get this straight: you've done very little to prove your townieness. This is something not to be overlooked.

[LicketyQuickety]

you've done very little to prove your townieness.

I've no need for that.

Plus, MY record speaks for itself.
I was adamant JaeReed was town.
karnos was in that same top-tier town.
Kuroi not far below.
I also had House as my second-strongest scumread, second only to you.

What's yours say?

My reads say I'm willing to reevaluate my reads on people, unlike yourself. Also, way easier to get accurate reads when you are Scum in this setup. That said, you read on me is dead wrong. Also, you can simply give someone a Town read knowing you are going to NK them that night.

[LicketyQuickety]

My reads say I'm willing to reevaluate my reads on people, unlike yourself.

What's there to reevaluate?
My reads have been RIGHT.

I will continue treating them as right until I see something that suggests they are wrong.

Nothing I have seen thusfar has suggested as such.

Well, it was pretty bad to say I was Alpha WW without any backing. I am guessing this was a reaction test (if you're not WW) that I passed, so why not reevaluate your read on me?

[LicketyQuickety]

I've decided I do want to sheep Ranger on this. She has been spot on thus far in this game, so she might as well be right on this one (but you'll need to explain this one either way, my friend).

VOTE: LQ

Explain what exactly? What is there to explain? Ranger said I was Alpha WW because they investigated me innocent.

[LicketyQuickety]

(but you'll need to explain this one either way, my friend).

I promise I will.

I'm operating under a very specific view of the game right now.

But I absolutely need that LicketyQuickety lynch before I can say anything further.

Why? What possible reason could there be for not explaining you read on me? How has my play this game been pushing a Scum agenda?

[LicketyQuickety]

What possible reason could there be for not explaining you read on me? How has my play this game been pushing a Scum agenda?

I actually do feel bad for pushing this, believe it or not.

But instead of this being a case where I can answer and am choosing to flat-out not do so, this is a case where it would be extremely detrimental for me to answer so I cannot.

Remember, and this is to everyone:

We have a double-day.

After the first lynch, we get a second.
Which means, after we get the flip of the first player, we have time and the ability to flip a second. And this is why I want an LQ lynch as soon as possible. I can explain everything after the first lynch.

See, my fear here is that you know that I will flip Town and have already planned out what you are going to say so that you don't look so bad after my flip. Regardless, I expect a full explanation on why you are pushing me like this after the game is over if you do succeed in getting me lynched.

In the mean time, LicketyQuickety, a quick tip:

Some Town players about to be lynched do what JaeReed did and try to give FULL reads on ALL the players.

FTFY

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, hiplop and DixC are both not mafia.

This is as much as I'll be revealing before we get a lynch, though.
You already know my scumreads are within the pile {Kop, DixC, LicketyQuickety, Bellaphant, Not_Mafia, Titus}.
I've stated Kop's mafia, and LQ as alpha werewolf, plus the above nugget of information.
The full hand I'm holding back can wait until after a lynch.

Tell me the world in which I am teamed with Kop and DixC. Must I remind the class that I prefered a DixC lynch over Jae?

[LicketyQuickety]

Tell me the world in which I am teamed with Kop and DixC.

What I said was that you aren't with DixC, period.

Your two posts you made when I made my post didn't register for some weird unknown reason. How long have you known I was Town?

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm liking Ranger a lot better for Town now. Telling that her Scum reads all the sudden have a lot to say about it. Bella is the only one who I think has a good response here.

[LicketyQuickety]

Telling that her Scum reads all the sudden have a lot to say about it.

And Chip Butty, but I'm not letting him get mislynched just like I'm not letting hiplop get mislynched. (Or Almost50 for that matter. Who else is mislynch-bait this game I need to shut down?)

ME!!! I am lynch bait like you wouldn't believe. Don't know why you don't know this about me. *mumbles something incoherently*

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah. Ranger is scum. So what if she said Jae was town? That doesn't mean much.

Make a case. Ranger is making a case on their Scum reads later. I expect the same from you. I may be willing to reevaluate my read on you, but that doesn't mean I am giving you a pass.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Smithereens: Don't you think Ranger is looking scummy?

No.

You're basically calling her scum for switching her vote around haphazardly. Not only is this not completely non-AI, it is closely consistent with the conclusions she is reaching. You should be reading town from that behaviour.

Reading scum of those who do things that town would never do makes sense, i.e. Seer/cop hunting, reading town from something Mafia wouldn't do makes no sense because Mafia has reason to act not-Mafia while town had no reason to act scum.

And you call yourself an experienced player??? Sorry, but playing as Scum is hardly about acting Townie.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ranger, you could've just written 'pre flip associatives' all over that and had the same impact with a hell of a lot less words.

I'm almost ready to 1v1 you so that if I get lynched my town flip will stop the nonsense.

Err... we have had flips, so its not pre-flip anymore.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: DixC

[LicketyQuickety]

Ranger will sort itself out.. If Ranger is correct in their reads, then they will be NKed. If they are not NKed then Ranger is likely Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Titus,

am I Town?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Time to make the change.

[LicketyQuickety]

Vote Count #2.6:

DixC:

Charloux, LicketyQuickety, Ranger, Almost50, Not_Mafia (5)

Ranger:

pistachi0n, Titus, Bellaphant, DixC (4)

Mirhawk:

pirate mollie (1)

Not Voting:

Mirhawk, Smithereens, Chip Butty

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2016-07-20 20:00:00)

Prodge

hi not_mafia

wassup

Hi, a hammer on DixC?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Time to make the change.

Wait, you're voting Dix, and so is NM. Now NM has called for a hammer on Dix and you put your vote on him? Could you please walk me through that?

Simple. Based on Titus last few posts I believer NM is the best bet for lynching Scum today.

[LicketyQuickety]

Huh? Pretty sure I have said nothing there, since they have said nothing since I got here...

So why are my posts persuasive for voting NM?

Bacause the way I see it, what you say and what Ranger say are both plausible, so that means somewhere along the line someone is making shit up. The reason I switched is because NM is my biggest Scum read currently and I was hoping I could get both you and Ranger to vote NM.

[LicketyQuickety]

I also think LicketyQuickety is almost certainly scum-aligned.

Uh-huh, why is that?

[LicketyQuickety]

Yuck...Ranger's not posting in all her games just to avoid claiming here Mirhawk?

I'm pretty sure this is not a known fact, titus.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not liking how fast the mirhawk wagon started.

I'm putting my vote back on DixC since it looks like NM isn't getting any traction.

VOTE: DixC

[LicketyQuickety]

OK,

WE are lynching one of Rangers Scumspecs, without doubt.

[LicketyQuickety]

mollie and mirhawk could be opposing factions

OK, like what is this post really saying? Not really anything at all that's what.

[LicketyQuickety]

OK,

WE are lynching one of Rangers Scumspecs, without doubt.

or we cld lynch this 1

and by lynching this 1 I mean LQ

LOL.. you're funny. You realize that there is a really good chance that Ranger was prolly high and away right on a high majority of what they said based on their flip right?

[LicketyQuickety]

OK,

WE are lynching one of Rangers Scumspecs, without doubt.

or we cld lynch this 1

and by lynching this 1 I mean LQ

LOL.. you're funny. You realize that there is a really good chance that Ranger was prolly high and away right on a high majority of what they said based on their flip right?

did you read my post 1254?

cos that is my approach

mirhawk is still scum btw!

You'll forgive me if I don't just take your word for it.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: pirate mollie

Don't at all like what this new person in the slot is doing.

[LicketyQuickety]

Titus is obv scum,
NM is obv scum,
Bella is obvscum.

Lets lynch one of these.

[LicketyQuickety]

Why was I NKed by both teams??? I have no idea why I was such a target. Someone explain this to me.

[LicketyQuickety]

I don't think I was a good NK. The only thing I really had going for me was that I was Town read and that close to the end of the game in multiball I can only assume there were better choices. I was prolly not going to get any Scum lynched, should have killed someone else I played very poorly. Only thing I can think of is that Scum basically controlled who got lynched, but then it would've been easy enough to just lynch me and send the game to the dice of what Scum kills what Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

yeah, you had me. Well don chip.

[LicketyQuickety]

Consider this a public apology to Ranger for threatening to blacklist her. That shit was just wrong.