Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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p sure I caught one already VOTE: alianna
always scum"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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also lol get pagetopped"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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you're caught up right?In post 91, Andante wrote:also like, alianna isn't even talking?? how did you catch alianna?
I like how skitter/invis commented on what I was saying, but mena just ignored my takes"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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also hi skitt, hi drew! I'm reading the first couple of pages now"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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umlaut, I also have a regular weekend V/LA pls"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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In post 165, skitter30 wrote: i can kinda see andante/alianna scum together
I don't see alianna scum yetIn post 166, implosion wrote: I can also see where Alianna-scum is coming from."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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if you're caught up then I feel it should be fairly easy to understand my vote without me needing to spell it outIn post 106, Andante wrote:
yeah? what up? I have all the rvs locked in my brain!In post 97, Menalque wrote:
you're caught up right?In post 91, Andante wrote:also like, alianna isn't even talking?? how did you catch alianna?
I like how skitter/invis commented on what I was saying, but mena just ignored my takes
I fully believe that town!andante would believe that she is obvtown here fwiwIn post 122, skitter30 wrote:
You think you're obviously town here?In post 118, Andante wrote: sorry I'm just like, people saying I'm town and meta in the same sentence? I'm calling it out cause you can literally find any kind of game from me to prove whatever "meta" you're trying to prove.. plus I'm like obviously town here so... no free passes to tr me!"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Because talking a lot does not a townie make. You have like 2 votes and are barely a wagon, there is no particular reason that people should comment on that or on any given wagon. Sometimes people comment on shit, sometimes not, often they do it own their own timeline if they want toIn post 176, Andante wrote:
I mean, how am I not obv town? it shouldn't even have to be "if town X" like yo... I been the only one talking, me talking created this random wagon on me, that no one wants to talk about, yet they were happy to discuss other wagons that alone should scream I'm town, and that's not even talking about how I've been the most active generating original reads... just sayinIn post 171, Menalque wrote: I fully believe that town!andante would believe that she is obvtown here fwiw
Lack of comment so far means nothing given how small the wagon is
I had no idea how many votes alianna had and also I’d def also make that comment if I were scumIn post 182, Andante wrote:
I thought mena tossed the wagon on e-1, it was technically e-2... I almost joined right before it and yeah, but mena is chill kinda was like "even though I SR andante (or whatever).." and still stood up for me with the comment from skitterIn post 181, Alianna wrote:
I'm not sure if you're implying anything with this post, but no, I am not intending to make a certain mistake twice.In post 86, Andante wrote: like mena, did you just toss alianna on e-1? and not say anything to speed hammer this? cause all I see are lots of votes there already...
lmao please tell me this doesn’t mean you accidentally self-hammered alianna??In post 181, Alianna wrote:
I'm not sure if you're implying anything with this post, but no, I am not intending to make a certain mistake twice.In post 86, Andante wrote: like mena, did you just toss alianna on e-1? and not say anything to speed hammer this? cause all I see are lots of votes there already..."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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will catch up later today, busy weekend"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I was coming round to going elsewhere maybe, but then you pointed this out and now I’m on “definitely an excellent option”In post 459, Andante wrote: bros… how do I have like 5 times the posts as the rest yall… wtf? and yall think voting out the person actually posting is a good move???"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Bruh
"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Lol yeah I think viz is town which also makes me feel better about skitter who felt weird a couple of pages ago (will quote where and say why in a sec)
Andy could be scum and is still a solid equity lim, then aisa isn’t a vote I hate but she’s also had some maybe solving? And the enchant replace is just *french kiss* for a slot that’s a good candidate if there’s no-one looking really actively scummy by EoD
Oh, also maybe this is the first game where I think dunn is actually town?
Sheep probably town, csf maybe town, implo, woo both very null, and finally cephrir… is in this game apparently?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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If I’m putting that in a more popular and easily digestible format I guess it would look something like this:
Town?
Viz
Dunn
Town??
Sheep
Town???
Skitt
Csf
Various shades of null
Implo
Woo
Ceph
Scum??
Aisa
Scum?
Andy
Enchant"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Skitt, why did you say the wagon comp was great here?In post 435, skitter30 wrote:
I think the wagon comp is great, that's partially why i like itIn post 431, Andante wrote:
this wagon composition is wild..In post 425, Umlaut wrote: Andante (3): skitter30, Menalque, Invisibility"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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no, this is where you felt weird and now I feel better about itIn post 514, skitter30 wrote:
B/c it's me + vizzy (who i townread p strongly) and i didnt hate that u were on it.In post 510, Menalque wrote:
Skitt, why did you say the wagon comp was great here?In post 435, skitter30 wrote:
I think the wagon comp is great, that's partially why i like itIn post 431, Andante wrote:
this wagon composition is wild..In post 425, Umlaut wrote: Andante (3): skitter30, Menalque, Invisibility
Where did i feel weird?
I thought I was included in the wagon comp being great vs just not hating me joining and I didn't think I'd done anything yet that would make you read me as strong town enough for you to be like, actively happy with me being there
I knew you were reading viz as town already so that made sense"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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man it's so hard to get into games when nobody is ever live with me"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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oh wow there's a person here
skitter is, imo, a player who is easier to read as time goes on and generally the best approach is to treat her with good faith and to see where she's trying to steer the game -- if you're working with her and you land on town a couple of days in a row there is a good shout she's scum. this has been my default mode to approach her for I think years(?) now, but despite that I've been making slightly more effort to actually read her instead of just townbinning her until D3
for the slight lean town it's that I like that she voted Andy when she did and for the reasons she did
and I like that she thinks viz town because I also think viz town
I feel like we're maybe not mind melding yet, but on the same page, and that's enough for her to be a townlean"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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that's easy: was calling the Andy wagon good but not joining, unvoted enchant!slot because of the rep out/in when that doesn't have any effect on the alignment of the slot itselfIn post 556, sheepsaysmeep wrote: and Woo vote"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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sheep could you give me an overall reads list?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Andy wagon is dying, I don't think enchant wagon is productive atm, woo is the third and I don't have reasons to think town plus after looking at ISO there are reasons he could be scum"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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why don't you like them? that's not rly game relevant but I'm curiousIn post 566, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
I dont rly like theseIn post 561, Menalque wrote: sheep could you give me an overall reads list?
sheep
implosion, andante
alianna, invisibility trending up
cephrir
menalque/Dunnstral
aisa/skitter/maybe woo
dr-enchant
game wise, why is ceph where he is? also why is andante near the top, is it play, PR claim, or something else?
you have experience with enchant right? I think wagoning enchant is similar to wagoning N_M -- often a good idea, but unlikely to lead to anything very telling from himIn post 567, skitter30 wrote: Why do u not think enchant is productive rn ?
like: if enchant is scum, cool, partners might bus or might just stall out plus I'm not likely to get anything from him. if enchant is town, cool, scum might back the wagon or they might let it stall out because they want to keep him around as a later game lim instead of burning the lim D1
this is not me shitting on enchant but again, similar to N_M, he's limbait and regardless of alignment I don't think the wagons on him are likely to be that productive or to spur other people into having interesting reactions or to do things that are revealing of alignment whereas a wagon elsewhere is more likely to lead to those things imo"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I mean yes but also no? I think that's more often when someone is voting a slot for inactivity/lurking and there's a rep vs when you actually SR the slot -- or alternatively if you're worried about the lim going through but drew wagon was like e-3 so that wouldn't have been a concernIn post 569, implosion wrote:
I feel like unvoting when there's a replacement is a pretty normal thing to do? I mean I don't disagree that I'd rather the vote have stayed (though for me it's because it's the wagon I want to push) but like, people unvote to see what the replacement's gonna do like, all the time.In post 558, Menalque wrote:
that's easy: was calling the Andy wagon good but not joining, unvoted enchant!slot because of the rep out/in when that doesn't have any effect on the alignment of the slot itselfIn post 556, sheepsaysmeep wrote: and Woo vote"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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note: not "into this game" but "into games". it's just that I have fairly limited time for MS (I like to play but it's p close to last on list of priorities) and feel I'm much more productive both at producing and at deducing when I'm interacting either live or close to it. I used to have a v bad habit of sitting around for ages refreshing (or playing 4-5 games at a time so at least one would have content) -- anyway if I log in and post and don't see a reply within like 5 mins then I'm likely to go do something else even if I'm free to be around and play, and that makes it hard to get into games. I think nobody was around right after my brief catch up posts for instance, even though I could have played longer potentially at that pointIn post 573, Aisa wrote:
I'm curious where this came from. The game has been going for 6 days and you have been V/LA for like half of this time.In post 553, Menalque wrote: man it's so hard to get into games when nobody is ever live with me
(If you're town I'm sure your feelings are valid!! But it's like :hmm: how did you come to the conclusion that nobody is ever online at your same time)
No I haven't looked back at Andante yet yes that's next on my list"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Serious question: you think I would burn my chances of endgaming by trying to divert from enchant if we were partnered?
"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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(1) I have more to say on this but I’ll say it either later today or tomorrowIn post 624, skitter30 wrote: I don't think it was 'diverting', it was a little more subtle than that. And yeah i think you could have at that time. Enchant gained a lot more steam imo *after* your vote;your woo vote did look partner-yand iircit was the biggest wagon that wasnt on someone you already said you werent voting
(2) this is accurate, yeah, and relevant but not in the way you’re thinking rn"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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As for the first bit… I think it’s reasonable to believe that and if you don’t think it was diverting (or it was more subtle than to be called that, same difference imo) I can see why you would see it as partnery
For the record, I probably would sometimes and wouldn’t at other times, but enchant is someone I’d be less likely to try and do it for (much as I like him and enjoy having him in games)"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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YesIn post 630, skitter30 wrote:
So do u get why i think this?In post 623, Menalque wrote:Serious question: you think I would burn my chances of endgaming by trying to divert from enchant if we were partnered?
I mean, ofc I know you’re wrong in this particular case about what I’m actually doing, but I do now get how you’re thinking it and why"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Skitter what do you think of andante atp?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Aisa, andante, enchant: what do each of you think about woo?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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GuerillaWoo
He has an iso, look at it, tell me what you think"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Are you caught up?
Pedit: at andy"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Sheep, what do you think of skitt’s idea that I make sense as an enchant partner?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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This is an odd line to take. Do you think I’m scum then? Would I be asking different questions if I were town?In post 667, Andante wrote: mena seems to be asking questions to just “look busy”
Okay, I think this is a fair take, was curious bc you weren’t particularly against woo when I floated that as a good place for a wagon but you’re also voting enchantIn post 674, sheepsaysmeep wrote:
uhh I don't rlly think anything meaningful lolIn post 662, Menalque wrote: Sheep, what do you think of skitt’s idea that I make sense as an enchant partner?
I remember reading it and being like "that makes lots of sense, I see that" and giving skitter a couple townpoints
I think u explaining "enchant is a player unlikely to respond differently to a wagon" or whatever also made enough sense
I havent read the exchange between u two in enough detail"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I think the game is like two thirds solved lol
No I will not elaborate at this point"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Alianna, when you’re able to — why this vote at this point?In post 587, Alianna wrote: VOTE: Enchant
Yeet. This may be all the content I can muster today, but yeet."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Lastly I think I want to hear more from dunn/woo/CSF, mostly the latter two"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I think shooting invisibility would be a good enough reason to lim someone all by itself"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Okay am interested to hear what your thoughts are on the game once you’re up-to-dateIn post 686, GuerillaWoo wrote:
I wanted to be polite though.In post 558, Menalque wrote:
unvoted enchant!slot because of the rep out/in when that doesn't have any effect on the alignment of the slot itselfIn post 556, sheepsaysmeep wrote: and Woo vote
This game slowed down for a while then quickly blew up over the last day, I'll be in later to catch up.
Yeah, thisIn post 691, implosion wrote: your vote has no power when no one agrees with you."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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That’s an odd thing to say when enchant is at e-2 with no competing wagonIn post 693, Andante wrote: I mean, wouldn't you want my vote to go towards limming your sr? cause it doesn't seem like people are really agreeing anywhere"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I mean there are 5 people who disagree with you and there’s nothing else gaining traction so kinda regardless of your perception I don’t think it’s a joke wagonIn post 699, Andante wrote:
well enchant is town, and I haven't seen a solid case in favor of enchant!scum so sorry to say it, but that wagon just seems like a joke wagon to me.. "oh haha enchant is an easy lim!!"In post 696, Menalque wrote:
That’s an odd thing to say when enchant is at e-2 with no competing wagonIn post 693, Andante wrote: I mean, wouldn't you want my vote to go towards limming your sr? cause it doesn't seem like people are really agreeing anywhere"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I will answer this but I want to hear from woo/dunn first -- see 625 and 679In post 716, skitter30 wrote:
So ig my issue is: why do u think i was thinking that if you were a partner you were burning all of your bridges?In post 640, Menalque wrote:
YesIn post 630, skitter30 wrote:
So do u get why i think this?In post 623, Menalque wrote:Serious question: you think I would burn my chances of endgaming by trying to divert from enchant if we were partnered?
I mean, ofc I know you’re wrong in this particular case about what I’m actually doing, but I do now get how you’re thinking it and why
Like this question is a bit weird to me in how it's framed b/c i don't know why you would think i thought you were doing that"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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can someone please unvote enchant temporarily because he can currently self-hammer if scum and I don't want day to end just yet
also @enchant you should probably be claiming here"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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simply, I feel least confident in my reads on you three and would like to boost that somewhat before EoD1In post 724, Cat Scratch Fever wrote: I didn't like Dunnstral's entrance, and I'm interested to see where he goes when he comes back
@Mena, I'm actually kinda curious why you said you wanted to hear from me/Woo/Dunn because I think both Woo and Dunn are scummy
now, questions!
(1) why didn't you like Dunn's entrance?
(2) what do you like about Alianna?
(3) have you played much with enchant?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I would rather you just claim tbhIn post 729, Enchant wrote: If you want me to post random.org readlist i can always do that but pfft.
I have better things to do actually."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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I think I'd still prefer the claim now actually"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Thank you btwIn post 739, Invisibility wrote: Mena told me to
I know deadline is approaching but I would still really like to see what both dunn and woo think of current gamestate before day ends"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Yet you continue to just say this instead of casing or canvassing for votes on any of me, implo, viz, aisa (which I understand to be your scumreads unless I’m missing something?)In post 741, Andante wrote: I really don’t see enchant flipping scum here…"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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VOTE: dunn
@aisa, have you played much with enchant?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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To those asking why I voted dunn — I’m holding off a little more on this until I hear from woo
I will get to it in due course"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Aisa, I have more questions for you —
(1) you’ve played with enchant before then — can you tell me why you think his reaction here to being wagoned is towny for him? How does it differ from his reaction to being wagoned when scum in your opinion?
(2) I’ve read and am digesting your Woo post, thanks for that. I’m now wondering where your head is at on dunn. You’re back to a TL on andy, do you think her case is convincing?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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Thats cool, I’m the last person to complain about irl stuff delaying ability to play lolIn post 832, GuerillaWoo wrote:
Yeah I dunno what to tell ya. it's gonna be a little late, had some irl stuff. I'm reading through the pages rn and nothing feels like it changed for me. Enchant and Andante still my biggest scumreads. Invis and Skitter still my TRs. Rest various shades of null.In post 830, Menalque wrote: To those asking why I voted dunn — I’m holding off a little more on this until I hear from woo
Can you explain a bit more why enchant and moreso andy are your biggest SRs and why skitt and viz are your biggest townreads?"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I will explain what I’ve been thinking/doing in just over an hour once I finish work, for anyone who has been asking
Pls no hammer before"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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okay I'm here please let me write"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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So, let me come out and say this:I think the team is exactly Andy+enchant + 1 with the +1 probably being CSFbut possibly being alianna/aisa.
I've been thinking enchant is scum since shortly after his rep in and think Implo's case is very solid. This was solidified by Andy's constant attempts to move the wagon off/defend/generate doubt that enchant was scum or should be limmed today. I think her active resistance and defence of enchant is very partner-y.
But wait, I hear you cry, didn't you do that exact same thing, Mena? Well, yes and no. I have been slightly but not entirely disingenuous. I don't scumread woo or dunn, and when I was asked about woo I looked for two things I thought could plausibly justify a vote there and said those. I actually think woo is pretty solidly town. But I was being serious when I said much earlier that an enchant wagon was bad for game state because if enchant was scum and had just sailed through unopposed it would've been potentially much harder to find the remaining scum.
We would've ended up in a debate of did they bus, or not. A lot of useful information would have been removed and there would have been a lack of ability to look back at peoples' positioning on D1 on later days. So I decided to deliberately try to cultivate a CW under the assumption that scum would try to at least somewhat try to save Enchant if possible rather than just let a buddy get flipped. So my strat was just to vote whichever wagon was second largest to see if anyone else would jump on. Woo didn't really get traction, so I switched to dunn and lo and behold, CSF also moved over. This, combined with 724 is why I think CSF is best bet for third scum -- the woo and dunn reads both seemed really thin there and her later justifications in 850 seem like they're reaching to me. The elaborations on Alianna are also broadly quite empty imo (no offence intended if you're town CSF but there's quite a lot of "good post" as an explanation with nothing more).
Aisa joining on woo + flip flopping on Andy is why I think she could be scum if CSF isn't. However, compare her shift onto woo in 804 to CSF's move onto Dunn in 849 (and reasoning in the posts already referenced. I think this looks much more like someone really reconsidering a slot and working through it in stages, showing what they're thinking about and reaching the conclusion he could be scum vs looking for things to justify making a vote.
Alianna was the weakest vote on Enchant, so if neither of the other two are scum I could see her bussing.
Hopefully it doesn't matter because if it is Enchant + Andy then hopefully unless we're in a super vanilla setup then PRs should be able to round the game out from there.
Okay,intentbut I'm holding off a bit in case anyone wants to ask questions."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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I propose flipping in the exact order of
Enchant --> Andy --> CSF --> Alianna --> Aisa --> Skitt
(mostly because I think the early wagon votes are probably all town provided Enchant scum and if it's Andy+Enchant and none of the likely partners are scum it's probably someone good at scum and also skitter surviving 5 nights would be very sun imo)
I hope that my explaining what I've been doing makes sense and there's a calculated risk there because I know I also look partner-y for attempting to divert the wagon. Skitt -- this is why I asked about diverting when I did, because that was exactly what I was trying to do to see if anyone would join. If I need to die on like D4 if CSF isn't scum that's fine, but I think that provided I'm right on Enchant + Andy then the game is probably won like 80-90% of the time."we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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@viz this is why I asked you to unvote before lol
"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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remember folks -- don't leave scum at E-1 because self-hammers hurt town"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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two minutes after I post and invite any questions, this is 100% flipping scum"we knew everything... And we knew nothing."-
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Menalque he/himSurvivorhe/him
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