Mini Theme 2172: Great Idea Mafia - Game Over

[redcardinal]

VOTE: noraa

it's a very good claim, gravedigger messes with potential trackers. n

[redcardinal]

VOTE: Herta

[redcardinal]

I don't see how this would be a joke?

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it also prevents flexibility for claims later so it's a bad scum move

[redcardinal]

herta's scum, serious vote

[redcardinal]

info, no analysis, very reactive posting

[redcardinal]

I agree with noraa's logic but don't entirely trust atm

[redcardinal]

lots of early game info w/o analysis from there too. difference is noraa isn't as reactive

[redcardinal]

shelly how many games have you played with noraa, ballpark

[redcardinal]

I get the feeling based on the first page (which is admittedly very little) that noraa and shelly have the same alignment

[redcardinal]

that's gut

[redcardinal]

what's up with all the newbs loving preflip associatives

I think efforts to solve each other arent indicative of scumpair if anything. I dont think a town-town interaction is similar to a scumpair interaction at all

I agree the town-town interaction isn't similar to scumpair interaction, I'm just being forthcoming with my thoughts here. also lol I've been playing here since 2015 this is just a new account.

This is a very interesting response to my gut read.

[redcardinal]

And red cardinal. What the hell kind of vote is that? "Serious vote." So when you switched from RVS it wasn't a serious vote? Or that was a second RVS vote? Maybe explain that.

I wanted to see more from noraa under pressure, but no I don't think noraa is scum

[redcardinal]

I forsee a herta lynch today, but if not I will also happily go for shelly and then noraa on a red flip. Obvious distancing.

[redcardinal]

having read through the rest of the thread after my post 220 I scumread noraa

[redcardinal]

I forsee a herta lynch today, but if not I will also happily go for shelly and then noraa on a red flip. Obvious distancing.

is your lynchpool only those two today? ik there's quite a bit of time left, and we have two slots that haven't checked in, but aorn

I'm flexible

[redcardinal]

having read through the rest of the thread after my post 220 I scumread noraa

buhahahahaha u go into such detail as for why. You have some time to explain before I start SRing u for this quick and unexplained shift of opinions that threw shade at me for no apparent reason with nothing to back it up.

I think it's very interesting how both of you immediately have started getting very defensive towards what started as nothing but a gut read

[redcardinal]

yes it's conditional on shelly flipping red

[redcardinal]

shelly and noraa started off the game by talking about nothing in particular, got extremely defensive when I mentioned they might be the same alignment, started doing some weird distancing stuff. my vote is where it is right now for a reason, I sr herta more than either of you combined. stop acting like you're immune from suspicion just because you post a lot.

[redcardinal]

noraa shelly how do you feel about a townbloc

[redcardinal]

herta is pretty obv scum to me at this one, and will provide a lot of good info on a flip whoch is something I'm always looking for d1. I like noraa's response to my proposal for a townblock, I think the scumclaim thing is pointless though, I scumread herta for totally different reasons including this omgussy defensiveness. I also don't like the people who are throwing shade on herta but not joining in, but I buy username's reasoning. going after lurkers is nai for me

[redcardinal]

my logic for reading most of the players today keeps feeling very wifomy, but I have a slight feeling that shelly and noraa are town which makes me think primate is also probably town, even though I get scummy vibes from primate in a vacuum. Herta is still scum, idk about this talk about how herta won't be the lynch, I'm sitting here for now

[redcardinal]

their tone is newbie tone. if shelly is scum like I think she is, then imo here she is just setting up limbait

I agree with shelly on this one, this doesn't read as newbtown, it reads as specifically newb scum

[redcardinal]

noraa why is your vote still on me and not putting herta on l1 please explain

[redcardinal]

So uh

It kind of feels like the day is winding down. I was hoping Herta would convince us to move the wagon but it looks like he won’t.

I don’t know what to do except wait for the prods/replacements to catch up. I’m still willing to hammer herta if it comes to it but I’d like to hear from ico and assemble before that happens.

I don’t have an opinion on shelly v. Noraa, but yikes. Look at shelly’s record and she might make a good policy elim.

I feel like I’ll know more after a flip, and night actions start flying. That will allow us at least to count the scum factions, maybe

VOTE: Rannygazoo

There's plenty to do and read, this is an attempt to stuff the town and act as if nothing's happening today, extremely scum motivated. obviously sees shelly as lynch bait but doesn't want to bite the line normally, also I hate policy elims. Herta's posts above satisfy me with that slot for now.

[redcardinal]

I was not aware that rannygazoo was the biggest wagon. I was under the impression that herta was. yknow, the wagon that I started. would you prefer that I explain less? get on titus for that.

[redcardinal]

there are plenty of posts from everyone to analyze. Sure there aren't any overarching grand solves to be making, but you could easily be looking at individual posts and commenting on them rather than making quiet remarks on how the day seems to be winding down, the only reason to make that comment is scum motivated

[redcardinal]

why mention her being a good policy elim then if you're not serious? rolling scum often has zero bearing on being scummy, you seem to be copying noraa without understanding the core of her argument

[redcardinal]

also yikes, rereading that one post I did come off pretty aggressive. I meant that to be more casually sarcastic than rude. I do think that overexplaining is good for town though.

[redcardinal]

and on that same note, I don't like titus just jumping right on there with no explanation

[redcardinal]

why mention her being a good policy elim then if you're not serious?

Just remarking and generating content. Isn’t that what day 1 is for?

claiming the game is slowing down does the opposite of content generation

[redcardinal]

also alternatively you could have just said you suspect shelly instead of mentioning this policy elim thing

[redcardinal]

I thought about that but yes, your vote was firmly in rvs.

What was the point of your policy elim statement in the first place if it wasn't to throw shade on shelly? It certainly meant to cause us to question a townread on her.

[redcardinal]

Their 1v1 reads as town v town to me, I don't think scum explains good versus bad play as politely or correctly as shelly did to noraa, and I'm back to townreading noraa based on her reaction to my proposal for a townblock.

[redcardinal]

something

something

hahahaahaaa

[redcardinal]

I dont see the point in bringing a lot of attention a conftown slot(at least rn they are conftown)?

Garbage opinion. No one is conftown.

idk my rolepm says town so I guess I'm in the clear

seriously though I think you're missing the point on purpose. npom is not a good slot to be throwing shade on, pick someone else

[redcardinal]

I've been accused of having short posts but I think that's a good thing and not a bad thing.

Just a side question, why? I think the only faction with a motivation to post short and sparse is scum because it gives town less to read them off of.

[redcardinal]

In my opinion people aren't as likely to read a long post and it's harder to figure out what your intention is sometimes.

that makes sense if you presuppose that the other townies aren't trying, which given that this is a forum and not town of salem or among us or something I've come to expect at least the effort of reading the game

[redcardinal]

anyways npom I don't really have a reason to ask you anything relevant to the game since you're voting rannygazoo so thanks

[redcardinal]

It probably has something to do with redcardinal’s policy of deciding which slots to scumread and then picking reasons later as he explained to me in 463

she

what you're going for here is ridiculous and if you were town you'd see that. when I said pick a different target, I thought it was fairly obvious that it was a joke about me scumreading you, since that's what scum do

[redcardinal]

something about primate's interaction with noraa and shelly put me off but I can't remember what

[redcardinal]

echovision's post stokes town talking and yours doesn't ranny, my vote's gonna stay here I don't want to have to tunnel someone the whole game

[redcardinal]

I think that might've been my problem earlier when I scumread you lol

[redcardinal]

something primate said bothered me because I was scumreading you

[redcardinal]

it doesn't matter though I don't think it means anything

[redcardinal]

Im still not clear. u have flip flopped so much I don't even know anymore. u scum reading me or no?

sorry about that, no I'm not scumreading you rn

[redcardinal]

I didn’t even vote you because I thought you were scum. It was a pressure vote to get you to straighten up. If I have to say that, it didn’t work, so: UNVOTE:

But you kept at it, and that’s what I don’t get.

I've bought this argument before but I don't buy it here, from you. Doesn't read as genuine to me

[redcardinal]

I have seen scum get elimmed day 1 several times, it's not as rare as you're implying. also wow *this* seems genuine to you?

[redcardinal]

please use a bit of occam's razor here, if they sound fake it's probably because they are. even if you don't buy that, at least voting ranny will remove a big question mark. I don't want to end up with ranny at the end, do you?

[redcardinal]

I am genuinely frustrated but I’m also out here trying not to take it personally when I get misrepresented, so read as much sarcasm as you need to into my “woe is me”s so it doesn’t sound too dumb.

It’s just a game! We’re having fun! I’m not mad at any of you! It’s probably best if I go cool down for a few hours, though.

Hey I like this thoough this is nice, have a nice few hours

[redcardinal]

The main reason is 463. She can say it’s a joke all she wants, but I was doing some completely harmless digging, not even accusing NPOM of being scum, just exploring their behavior, and for her shut it down like that is scum-motivated. I can iso dive and build a more thorough case.

i don't really think its shutting it down. red thinks npom is town for the claim, the claim is likely town.

feels like trying to solve for the cameras vs. genuine townie solving imo.

this, it's not natural analysis, it's analyzing because oh shit people are pressuring me gotta look town

[redcardinal]

it's not needed right now keep pushing herta

[redcardinal]

ohhh my god herta it's hard to believe lmfao that's so specific

[redcardinal]

I don't know why tou would do that though so whatevs

[redcardinal]

username is a tr for me right now. lots of changing votes, I agree with him on stuff, little jncomfortable that he seems to be jumping on wagons as they form but it seems fine

[redcardinal]

natural versus unnatural analysis depends on context and tone, it's kind of bard for me to explain much further than that but based on the context of ranny getting pressured, for him to start swinging at random seems scummy to me

[redcardinal]

I don't really know what is going to convince you noraa other than rereading the game

[redcardinal]

I'm leaning a bit town for shelly right now, but not committed to that

[redcardinal]

I'm leaning a bit town for shelly right now, but not committed to that

Can you explain what I am seeing in 581 if shelly is town?

nope, I have no idea why town shelly wouldn't vote ranny here

[redcardinal]

if ranny flips town shelly is suspicious as hell

[redcardinal]

if ranny flips town shelly is suspicious as hell

why? you are TRing her bc she's on ranny but ur saying if ranny is green .... she is red?

she's not on ranny rn lol, also read what me and others have said about ranny

[redcardinal]

@Noraa, My scum read is gut based off posts like this one.

I didn’t even vote you because I thought you were scum. It was a pressure vote to get you to straighten up. If I have to say that, it didn’t work, so: UNVOTE:

But you kept at it, and that’s what I don’t get.

uh what

imagine your reaction test didn't succeed in generating AI content
why do you back off
don't you want to solve titus

If shelley thinks, Rannygazoo is scum, where is her vote? If she doesn't think he's scum, then why post like this implying he's scum not sorting?

The posting is particularly bad if Rannygazoo flips town because Rannygazoo could have seen his reaction test failed.

I'm leaning a bit town for shelly right now, but not committed to that

Can you explain what I am seeing in 581 if shelly is town?

I'm leaning a bit town for shelly right now, but not committed to that

Can you explain what I am seeing in 581 if shelly is town?

nope, I have no idea why town shelly wouldn't vote ranny here

if ranny flips town shelly is suspicious as hell

[redcardinal]

lmfao it wasn't even my idea

[redcardinal]

can you read 581 and try to think about how I may have come to the same conclusion as titus?

[redcardinal]

like if you agree then you already should understand why I would think so lol

[redcardinal]

noraa I love your profile pic

I don't really care about anything happening between you and shelly at this point it's just getting hard to read. I do generally buy shelly's explanation for maintaining a herta vote. want to see something from titus about this.

[redcardinal]

@Noraa, My scum read is gut based off posts like this one.

Can I also get SRs from titus? Ranked if you don't mind? Everything south of null would be great, just a line of reasoning if you want

what does this do for your read of titus/otherwise?

[redcardinal]

Spoiler:

ok username effort to sort ranny is prob!town

noraa is gut-town

I don't think I've ever seen u TR me straight off the bat before

so now im more clear about your play across various games, I have a good ~vibe~ from them, they claimed town and I think it's real lol
answer to titus redas geniune

*reads

also noraa is often explicitly *confused* and if they were in a scum PT I think they would have more direction on how to approach this rather than being confused about the factions

shelly didn't I play the ~confused~ card hard in doggos tho? :3

the key is tone. this is proooobably your first ever theme or something

see the reactions towards me giving you a gut-TR, it's trying to doubt me / point out logical flaws. scum upon TR'd doesnt do that

I do not fucking accept free town passes. this is the way scum shelly pockets. I'll bet you post game the scum pt will say something like "I can pocket Noraa"

noraa's locktown I won't have it otherwise, scumnoraa doesn't post this kind of paranoia

[redcardinal]

I don't like lhf args to back off from wagons preflip

[redcardinal]

I like murdercat's logic for voting npom would be okay doing that today

[redcardinal]

Frankly embarrassed for town that it took us so long to realize that there’s a scum gravedigger

lol you obviously don't consider yourself part of the town

[redcardinal]

I actually agree with ranny on this point, giving town credit before a flip looks really bad, esp because of the likely multi setup

[redcardinal]

okay I skimmed the past few pages and saw the IC so UNVOTE: rannygazoo I have some work to do tonight but tomorrow I'll read through what's going on and form some new reads, at this point will probably go herta

[redcardinal]

Why not just place the vote? Why do you need to place intent? It's like you're trying to gauge reaction from everyone before doing so.

bc I hadn't read up the game for a while and I have no idea what you might have posted before?

[redcardinal]

VOTE: Italiano

there's still time cmon, I don't see a reason scum!username would be defending me while we both looked potential wagons. looking at the wagon on ranny tells me there's probably scum in one of those last three, and I think it's most likely shelly's slot at this point, v likely shelly figured ranny was going to go through without her vote and wanted to throw shade to fuel the wagon without the consequences of voting for a towny. I still think noraa's town, so I'm abandoning my gut earlier that shelly/noraa were same alignment. Italiano's been suspicious of me for what I think are bad reasons, being one of the people who voted ranny later on and then moving to username, who I townread, then me, and apparently he doesn't care whether I'm going to show up, just agreeing with ranny, who is just bad town at this point.

[redcardinal]

I don't buy voting ranny and then sheeping him as soon as the IC happens, I think genuine rannyvoters would just see ranny as bad/misdirected town like I do at this point.

[redcardinal]

herta is still a scumread but I'd rather go here today than herta at this point

[redcardinal]

For what it’s worth, username’s 1180 is convincing me enough not to compromise to him. I still don’t think Herta is scum. I could be wrong though; that whole scumslip thing is getting misinterpreted imo and I’m not townreading redcardinal, but that’s a lot to go through. Still could be anti-town being pro town.

oh my god again, I never scumread herta over that scumflip stuff

[redcardinal]

*scumslip

[redcardinal]

I also just generally don't feel like there's a lot of substance in italiano though I know that's probably not going to convince anyone

[redcardinal]

Yeah, yeah blame it someone else. If he flips town it’s because you KNOW he’s town.

And don’t want to be on wagon.

stop throwing shade at all my townreads smh

[redcardinal]

primate get on this wagon, italiano is so obvious

[redcardinal]

I'm also really sus of plus

unless he joins the italiano wagon then maybe he can be forgiven

[redcardinal]

murdercat you know it's true

[redcardinal]

primate get on this wagon, italiano is so obvious

Yuck

oh cmon, don't shade me like this murder, do something productive and vote italiano

[redcardinal]

primate get on this wagon, italiano is so obvious

Yuck

oh cmon, don't shade me like this murder, do something productive and vote italiano

Are you trying to execute shelly/Italiano or to save username?

both

[redcardinal]

To be clear, I'm not saying we have to go username, I'm saying username is infinitely better than a no elim. I think drunk titus may have read it wrong, but on a second read it's not super clear

italiano is also better than a no elim

[redcardinal]

Because scum kills the obv towns for free. Mis elim now is better than later, plus any % chance of scum is better than 0% with no elim. If we don't elim {username, red, herta, italiano} today we are basically saying we don't want to ever elim them. As scum elims obv towns, we need to be eliming elimbait (even if we can't hit scum). If we knew that no elim gives us another day then maybe I see it, but we don't know setup so we don't know that.

I absolutely agree with this I just don't think that username is really that elim bait. like, I've heard people say that italiano is some kind of settle, but I honestly don't see much substance going after username. I mean I don't buy the wagon so perhaps I'm biased, but I really think people should be thinking about whether username is someone we want to go for.

[redcardinal]

italiano's two votes from elimination today ranny, vote and murder will hammer, and then I'm down to talk about username based on the flip

[redcardinal]

I'm also really sus of plus

unless he joins the italiano wagon then maybe he can be forgiven

It gives me the creeps how red keeps trying to manipulate town like this

ranny if you vote italiano I'll townread you too

[redcardinal]

like titus pointed out a while ago, shelly threw a lot of shade on you without ever putting her vote where her mouth was, and I never bought the explanation for that. now that you're confirmed town I took a different perspective on shelly, shedded a couple ideas about shelly/noraa I had, and then started reading italiano's posts.

And wow has nearly everything italiano has said given me bad vibes. Starting from the vote on you that put you at l2, he can claim he had a scumread before then but he wasn't around before you started gaining pressure. putting you, me, and user into his scumreads list wasn't just unoriginal, it was leaving open all potential wagons that from my perspective, are town. Like noraa mentioned, it's sheeping consensus reads, and I don't have a problem with sheeping on principle but when you look at this context the agenda is obvious.

Additionally, the stuff earlier about your language, the whole "if I flip green" thing is a load of crap and you should see that better than anyone else. It's just so bad faith. I cannot believe that italiano genuinely voted you for that, it seems way more likely he voted you because he wanted a townie dead than because that of all things was some kind of tipping point.

Italiano also never explained his scumread of me. Like, at all. He mentioned something about weirdness with my shelly/noraa alignment read but that was about it and again, that reads less as a real read and more as a "I can say I scumread cardinal before the train picked up" setup thing. I really think a town player should care about whether a scumread is going to show up before a vote clears too.

the shade on murdercat, one of my other townreads, is also kinda ridiculous, murdercat's reasoning for voting username is in fact the only one I can say I understand.

[redcardinal]

relavent posts for above wall

The ones who I’m townleaning at the moment are: Titus, Noraa, Echo, Herta

Null: PlusJOYED, ico, MURDERCAT,

Scum or Anti-town: Ranny, red, username, NPOM

if ranny flips town shelly is suspicious as hell

I find this really damning. What she's doing here is trying to chain miselims.

If I flip green

, she'll try to hurry you along to this other elim that may turn out green too. There's just, like, a complete lack of interest in actually solving the game, all throughout her posts.

If you flip green?


VOTE: Ranny

I am an Innocent Child

Rannygazoo is confirmed to be aligned with the Town!

Okay then, who’s next?

VOTE: Redcardinal

Yeah ok that plus iso was a lot worse than I remembered

UNVOTE: username

VOTE: redcardinal

To force red into the thread. I wish Ranny was leading instead of me

What are you doing? Who cares if Red shows up or not. I agree with Ranny.

Bruh.

Still willing to go back onto username, but we might as well use the time

Nah, not buying that. That was a goofy move,

Yeah, yeah blame it someone else. If he flips town it’s because you KNOW he’s town.

Yeah, yeah blame it someone else. If he flips town it’s because you KNOW he’s town.

And don’t want to be on wagon.

BS, I started the whole wagon even before ranny was outed

And yet you didn’t want to be on the wagon this late. Gotta see it through. You were so convinced. It strange how a Plus iso, which gives you nothing is enough to jump off.

[redcardinal]

Honestly red people were way too quick to jump off username and I don't think a lady second wagon like that hits scum too often

all that said, this does scare me. despite my townread, I really don't like the way that wagon dissolved under very little force. keeping this in mind for later analysis

[redcardinal]

no way that was a vig, titus and noraa were too obviously town

[redcardinal]

what we have here is three/four murder factions at start, with either two/three alive rn depending on a cross kill. I haven't done the math exactly but a guestimate tells me there's a low likelyhood of there being another maf

[redcardinal]

ranny, username, murdercat, myself, and npom are all clear from my pov

[redcardinal]

sheeping murdercat VOTE: Plusjoyed

[redcardinal]

welcome to my townreads primate

[redcardinal]

sheeping murdercat VOTE: Plusjoyed

This is bold considering yesterday

wdym?

[redcardinal]

eh, I don't see a point on townreading people based on whether they were actually right or not, town has very little information to work with

[redcardinal]

hell I might be wrong about townreading you, I do have my doubts, but plus is a good target for today

[redcardinal]

do remember that any anti-town factions that still exist are *probably* not mafia and thus wouldn't have a clue who the other anti-town factions are.

[redcardinal]

but that's assuming we even have 2+ of any anti-town faction

[redcardinal]

p sure I qualify as both caring a lot about yesterday's elim and having pushed italiano

[redcardinal]

herta you did see ranny's inno child right?

[redcardinal]

herta still very scummy

[redcardinal]

echo if you want to go that direction today we can go herta instead of plus, I'm inclined to believe the hero claim as well

[redcardinal]

I'm also really sus of plus

unless he joins the italiano wagon then maybe he can be forgiven

It gives me the creeps how red keeps trying to manipulate town like this

ranny if you vote italiano I'll townread you too

A couple of posts from end of Day 1 I wanted to get back to. I'm not sure how they fit in yet.

This is one. I hated this post. At first I thought it was redcardinal being cute, but ranny's follow-up made me think it was sincere.

I think it was sincere in that since red couldn’t mis-elim me, she could only discredit me instead so town doesn’t pay attention to my reads. This was her saying that she’ll stop trying to do that if I sheep her.

For the record I just thought it would be funny to say the thing

[redcardinal]

if you read some of my other posts at the time they were all similarly off the cuff, I didn't know whether I was going to actually be able to get an italiano elim so I just got a bit silly with it

[redcardinal]

I'm not voting npom and after an iso dive and this I'm scumreading username

[redcardinal]

He’s either a werewolf playing dumb or he’s incapable of reading anything except the posts right above and below his

And I’m not too sure about the one below

lmao

[redcardinal]

VOTE: herta

much rather go here than plus today tbh

[redcardinal]

if I was buddies with npom I would have bussed hard day 1 no question

[redcardinal]

nothing against npom

[redcardinal]

What the f*** red I thought we were friends I am so offended LOL

I'm sorry npom, it's not you, it's me ;P

[redcardinal]

the early hero claim is growing on me. It just doesn't feel right. I also don't buy that ranny's response to my joke somehow made you think I was serious, or at least that I had some kind of agenda. I don't think town would look at that and go yes, gonna throw some shade here

[redcardinal]

also herta just

scummy

[redcardinal]

it's more than just an omgus. I don't believe you're actually scumreading me for real because I don't think your reasoning seems genuine for it. I haven't done anything different today than I did yesterday so I fail to see how genuine town could be getting scum pings like this.

[redcardinal]

and don't think I don't see the "coincidence" of you being suspicious of perhaps the most vocal player who scumreads you herta.

[redcardinal]

herta still very scummy

also herta just

scummy

Posts like this make me doubt your sincerity.

iso me yesterday and see what I said about italiano

[redcardinal]

rather be in elo with joyed than herta

[redcardinal]

I don't understand the naked votes though.

wjo

[redcardinal]

*Who

[redcardinal]

I'm kicking myself right now because I really don't want to lose because plus decided not to play the game

[redcardinal]

because I would have chosen to get off the herta wagon for this

[redcardinal]

there's a message that didn't send between 1605 and 1606: from my pov, I think it's very possible the hero claim might be real, and if it is and I voted plus I'd be very very sad

[redcardinal]

nice job everyone, especially murdercat and npom