Mini Theme 2330 - A Questionable Almost-Normal Game - Postgame

[Ranger]

VOTE: Doctor Drew
Just to get it out of my system.

[Ranger]

{DKKoba}
{Doctor Drew}
{Laplacian}
{usesPython}
{ketchup777}
{Hu Tao}

P1.

VOTE: DKKoba
lol

[Ranger]

{DKKoba}
{Doctor Drew}
{light_ganski}
{Political Clout}
{Black}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{JacksonVirgo}
{usesPython}
{ketchup777}
{Hu Tao}

VOTE: Hu Tao

Serious vote.

[Ranger]

hi ranger I do not understand how you do the lists so early, pls explain

like is it all just vibes or is there anything more there

It’s vibes!

I’ve played mafia for nearly 20 years and tens of thousands of games (a couple thousand if excluding EM), I developed and internalized a method for reading posts at every stage, past experiences refined, and the end result was a system I don’t remember developing the rules for anymore. I built a machine, forgot how it works, yet still use the end product; vibes!

I think I described it in a 2023 game. The process is I look at my reads, shift them without regards to town/scum (just higher/lower), look at posts, decide if those posts impact the read in a snap judgment call from vibes, and if it does, I adjust the list and repeat the process.

I'll be demonstrating when I’ve the free time. Likely tomorrow.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Hu Tao
Serious vote.

why hu tao?

Vibes.

Why

not

Hu Tao?

[Ranger]

wtf did I do to deserve being on top here

I literally tried to post scummy on purpose to some extent with my 2nd post

Some questions answer themselves.

[Ranger]

Is top of your list most scummy or least scummy?

Which one was accompanied with a declaration of being a serious vote?

[Ranger]

How’s your first scum game going?

I like this fire from JV, vibe it town, and agree.

[Ranger]

Usually vibes come with like a reason. Like did one of my posts come off weird to you?

Yes, all of them.

[Ranger]

After considering it. I decided it was probably my alternative theory of them just being excited.

Disappointing. You had a good thing going.

[Ranger]

ranger becomes derangedr

Alas, that happened to me months ago.

[Ranger]

Why am I town

You're my masonbuddy with usesPython,

obviously

.

[Ranger]

Why am I town

You're my masonbuddy with usesPython,

obviously

.

(This is meant to trigger Dannflor whenever he reads this game as a spectator/replacement.)

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{Political Clout}
{DKKoba}
{Doctor Drew}
{Laplacian}
{light_ganski}
{Black}
{Titus}
{ketchup777}
{usesPython}
{Hu Tao}

P3

[Ranger]

As a warning; I may not finish catching up tonight, it depends on how busy I get and how tired me and my fiance are.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{Political Clout}
{DKKoba}
{Doctor Drew}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{usesPython}
{light_ganski}
{Hu Tao}

P4

[Ranger]

Yoooo wtf I’m never that high

I admit to recency bias; you exceeded my expectations for what I believe scum-you would be capable of.

[Ranger]

Drewpoints can only be redeemed by registered Drewidians, not sure if ketchup qualifies

Drew's to say?

[Ranger]

I see, what have I done to make you think so?

141! Reinforced by vibes earlier.

[Ranger]

I fake claim miller

I fake claim mason with usesPython and Black.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{Political Clout}
{Doctor Drew}
{Black}
{ketchup777}
{DKKoba}
{usesPython}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{light_ganski}
{Hu Tao}

P5

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{Political Clout}
{Doctor Drew}
{Black}
{DKKoba}
{usesPython}
{ketchup777}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{light_ganski}
{Hu Tao}

P6

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{Political Clout}
{Doctor Drew}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{DKKoba}
{usesPython}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{light_ganski}
{Hu Tao}

P7

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{Political Clout}
{Doctor Drew}
{Black}
{ketchup777}
{DKKoba}
{usesPython}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{light_ganski}
{Hu Tao}

P8

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{Political Clout}
{Doctor Drew}
{Black}
{ketchup777}
{DKKoba}
{usesPython}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{light_ganski}
{Hu Tao}

P9

[Ranger]

Ranger gets town points for her joke, well played ma'am

I Drew that a lot.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{Political Clout}
{Doctor Drew}
{Black}
{ketchup777}
{DKKoba}
{usesPython}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{Hu Tao}
{light_ganski}

P10

VOTE: light_ganski

[Ranger]

so you're claiming? /jk

Crumbing, there's a difference!

[Ranger]

Have you explained your lap/titus/ranger solve anywhere

Oh?

I'm in for a treat when I can catch up.

[Ranger]

I'm in for a treat when I can catch up.

Speaking of, may be busy. Had dishwasher explode and ruin $300 of stuff last night. Will try.

[Ranger]

not really but it really boils down to that i think the surrounding players are townier

This does feel like a game of pursuing the least-townie players.

Apologies I've been unable to give mine.

[Ranger]

im operating mainly on vibez rn

My default state.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Laplacian
Still heavy sus on Ranger and Titus but Laplacian also makes it into my top 3 now I think

I'd probably have snarky commentary on this if I were more invested rn.

It seems you arrived at the same spot as Koba though.

[Ranger]

so you're claiming? /jk

Crumbing, there's a difference!

Can someone explain the reference to me

Some entertaining reading

[Ranger]

Oops messed up quoting. that should be it from me now though. Want to vote Ranger but Lap’ll be ok for now

Live a little, pursue your best dreams.

[Ranger]

I think Ranger has conveniently posted a few more lists so she can subtly slip onto the Light wagon, while getting off Hu Tao after getting no support there.

I'm honored you think I'm capable of giving that level of forethought.

Alas.

I don’t think Hu Tao had done nearly enough to warrant being Ranger’s top scum read for 9 pages.

It started as bad vibes of Hu Tao looking like scum putting effort in to look town, although later content made me doubt my scumread there. Hu Tao's no longer a scumread so much as among my least-town slots so far.

The stopping of reads lists after getting to a point where she could vote Lightganski also feels oh so conveeeeeenient

Please do not call into question my real life as the reason I stopped is immediately after I posted my last post my fiance began to panic, noticing leaking soapwater all over the kitchen emanating from our dishwasher.

[Ranger]

A very generic and evasive answer

Yet apt regardless.

The question of why not Hu Tao remains, and I don't think light_ganski ever answered.

[Ranger]

My top two scumreads are the leading wagons. Seems right to me

what makes light ganski scum?

I'd assume other slots being more town.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{Political Clout}
{DKKoba}
{usesPython}
{Doctor Drew}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{Hu Tao}
{light_ganski}

P11

[Ranger]

Scumpoints to Ranger for magical {bracketed lists of mystery} that are backed up by a magical black box of "tens of thousands of games". That's not an argument, that's appeal to authority

Strange interpretation of events.

I don't recall backing up my lists with any reason, yet alone an appeal.

I do remember answering a question I was asked on how I can generate reads.

I don't recall any relation to the reads themselves.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{Political Clout}
{DKKoba}
{usesPython}
{Doctor Drew}
{Titus}
{Hu Tao}
{light_ganski}
{Laplacian}

P12

VOTE: Laplacian

[Ranger]

If anything I expected more of her reads lists so far

So do I.

She must be slacking, I think she's terrible.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{usesPython}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{DKKoba}
{Titus}
{Hu Tao}
{light_ganski}
{Laplacian}

P14

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{usesPython}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{Hu Tao}
{light_ganski}
{Laplacian}

P17

[Ranger]

She has her moments

She sure isn't having them this game, we should hold her to a higher standard imo.

[Ranger]

town python be big srs mode and scum python constantly cracks jokes and has trouble being serious

Interestingly, you generally feel the inverse, and this game feels a serious mode from vibes.

[Ranger]

I thought town!Ranger would be more likely to be more than willing to clarify any confusion over her reads list.

I did!

[Ranger]

@Ranger readslist please

{JacksonVirgo}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{usesPython}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{Hu Tao}
{light_ganski}
{Laplacian}

P18

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo}
{ketchup777}
{usesPython}
{Black}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Titus}
{Hu Tao}
{DKKoba}
{light_ganski}
{Laplacian}

P19

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, ketchup777}
{usesPython}
{Black}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Titus, Hu Tao}
{DKKoba}
{light_ganski}
{Laplacian}

P20

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, ketchup777}
{usesPython, Black}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout, Hu Tao}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{light_ganski}
{Laplacian}

P21

[Ranger]

should I keep going are any of you going to actually read this?

It'd help me.

[Ranger]

Ranger can you link a scum game of yours that's not the one that just ended

Several, although in the last year, I've only the one.

I was gone for seven years, meta before then likely isn't very useful. (I can track them down if need be.) I took a life hiatus even after my 2023 play, so I'm not even sure the one is useful.

I wish I could be more help; life/system changes shift a lot.

[Ranger]

Ranger is Hu Tao getting townier in that list or is it just everyone else getting scummier?

Townier!

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, ketchup777}
{usesPython, Black}
{Political Clout, Hu Tao}
{Doctor Drew}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{light_ganski}
{Laplacian}

P26

[Ranger]

Damn, who needs drugs when u got this

Mafia is the drug tbh.

[Ranger]

goodnight chat

Streamer brain!

I need to build mine away from being a viewer.

[Ranger]

None of these people posted on page 21, what prompted the change?

P21 made me realize I had Hu Tao too low from my last readslist, I corrected it.

[Ranger]

Like just the read percolating or did something in specific make you realize it

Hu Tao was in the conversation, the post which pinged as +town was the bottom of the last page, and when I realized I hadn't properly bumped Hu Tao up, I remedied the mistake.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, ketchup777}
{usesPython, Black}
{Political Clout, Hu Tao}
{Doctor Drew}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{Laplacian}
{light_ganski}

P33

[Ranger]

It'd be really funny if everyone disappeared over the weekend so that we spend the entire phase active when no one else is on

This was a joke not an invitation

V/LA this weekend /hj

[Ranger]

you seem pretty competent to me, and using these reads lists must be a familiar enough format for you that you’ve generated some ideas on how to best manipulate them as scum. I’m sure you would know how to do something like what I suggested

Oh certainly. I'm capable of it.

I tend to be given credit I don't deserve, and lack it when it's warranted.

It feels very unbacked up/ shovelling it all onto vibes

Unless otherwise stated, all reads are vibes. I can certainly try to explain a vibe in many cases, yet the only reasons to are if I'm trying to convince someone or trying to demonstrate my thoughts to help them read me. I've a need for neither yet.

and very convenient in being able to take the read 1 way or the other depending on what best suits you at the time. Methinks.[/color]Being too rigid in reads is a disease. Of course I'm flexible in which way I take my reads. There's good reason I usually don't label them with varying degrees of town/null/scum; those are tools which have a time, yet are not the solution for every situation.

you can see where I’m coming from though, no?

I really cannot. If I were fully caught up and a swap occurred, then sure, I'd follow and that'd be genuine.

If I suddenly stop anywhere and vanish after having warned life meant I may not catch up, it means life interfered. Nothing more or less, ever.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, usesPython}
{Political Clout, Hu Tao}
{Black}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{light_ganski}

P34, although I'm not quite satisfied with the reads from Laplacian below.

[Ranger]

Yes, it's content lurking.

That's the idea. Refer to sig.

Throw in that appeal to authority

Although I'll freely coast, I'll not let the slander stand about a nonexistent appeal. I've made none.

[Ranger]

That's the idea. Refer to sig.

Casual tryhard = lazy. Putting in the minimum amount of effort while still seriously trying.

I'm certainly

capable

of more, I choose not to as I've far more important things in life than an online mafia game.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, usesPython}
{Political Clout, Hu Tao}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{Doctor Drew}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{light_ganski}

P35

[Ranger]

I think she’s remaining very fluid on who to vote

Rigidity in votes is a disease. Fluidity in reads and votes is the entire reason I developed my playstyle. To remain unbiased, and open to any change.

Refusal to pivot is never conductive to eliminating scum. Certainly, letting a vote stay and pushing can provide useful information; rigidity to attached reads stops being useful past a point.

her response was not ‘no i wasn’t doing that' but(paraphrasing) 'I would not be capable of doing that'.

Your paraphrase is wrong as I never said anything of the sort.

[Ranger]

The lists are NAI for Ranger. If you're voting her because of the lists then it's a waste of time

But that’s like 3/4 of her posts

You're certainly capable of engaging me on any list I post, particularly the shifts in the lists. There's always a reason and I'm usually able to explain. It could be 'vibes off of their posts', yet that still gives you the information of which posts vibed the change.

[Ranger]

@Ranger

can you elaborate on your town-read on me further than just stuff from pages 1-3. I was hoping to ask after you're fully caught up but I don't think it's going to change anything

I've seen your play in both my recent games. Your scumgame was entirely different than your towngame and comparing the two, this is by far the town of the two. I admit the sample size is small. Still, this would be a vast improvement from the scumgame I saw previously in a drastically short timeframe.

It's certainly possible my metric's biased, if your Marathon Setup play was a vast underperformance, and you're capable of this as scum.

I get good vibes overall with all your posts so I stand by it.

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, usesPython}
{Political Clout, Hu Tao}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{Doctor Drew}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{light_ganski}

P35

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, usesPython}
{Political Clout, Hu Tao}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{Doctor Drew}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{DKKoba}
{light_ganski}

P36

*fixed

[Ranger]

{JacksonVirgo, usesPython}
{Hu Tao}
{ketchup777}
{Black}
{Political Clout, Doctor Drew}
{Laplacian}
{Titus}
{light_ganski}
{DKKoba}

P37

[Ranger]

What did I do? I've literally done nothing

You were doing something on the pages you went up. Posting.

[Ranger]

you'd think someone who has misread me embarassingly twice in the past as town would have more care about me being at the bottom again, but then again i think ranger is just scum by POE anyways, and theyre just trying to ignore my towny points intentionally to paint me as a possible scumread. somehow going from top early on to bottom do be wild

This feels highly disingenuous.

I didn’t vibe with some of your recent postings. I’m not even voting you. I don’t truly scumread you. In that snapshot, I have everyone as more town, yet by razor thin margins.

You seem oddly defensive, especially for someone who literally asked why you weren’t being scumread.

Perhaps you’d like to explain the discrepancy in attitudes?

[Ranger]

you'd think someone who has misread me embarassingly twice in the past as town would have more care about me being at the bottom again, but then again i think ranger is just scum by POE anyways, and theyre just trying to ignore my towny points intentionally to paint me as a possible scumread. somehow going from top early on to bottom do be wild

This feels highly disingenuous.

I didn’t vibe with some of your recent postings. I’m not even voting you. I don’t truly scumread you. In that snapshot, I have everyone as more town, yet by razor thin margins.

You seem oddly defensive, especially for someone who literally asked why you weren’t being scumread.

Perhaps you’d like to explain the discrepancy in attitudes?

For example, I certainly haven’t Downplayed anything about Koba being town. I have made no efforts to push Koba. I’ve even engaged Koba. I specified I wasn’t happy with the bottom reads (including Koba), and never said I had become happy; that Koba is at the bottom is something which is explicitly dissatisfactory.

Yet the moment Koba drops to the bottom, once, they instantly react aggressively to it, despite the highly fluid nature of my reads and all prior reasons. It’s odd.

[Ranger]

you'd think someone who has misread me embarassingly twice in the past as town would have more care about me being at the bottom again, but then again i think ranger is just scum by POE anyways, and theyre just trying to ignore my towny points intentionally to paint me as a possible scumread. somehow going from top early on to bottom do be wild

This feels highly disingenuous.

I didn’t vibe with some of your recent postings. I’m not even voting you. I don’t truly scumread you. In that snapshot, I have everyone as more town, yet by razor thin margins.

You seem oddly defensive, especially for someone who literally asked why you weren’t being scumread.

Perhaps you’d like to explain the discrepancy in attitudes?

"oddly defensive" - how so?

For a slot who literally asked why you weren’t being scumread, you seem to have an overreaction to even the potential I

could

scumread you, despite you literally asking what made you town and believing there wasn’t anything.

[Ranger]

Man. I was about to come into today upset at koba. Because Lap's claim sounded like it was there to find miller's. But I was also going to say koba was probably town for it because of Lap's role. But now I'm shook. Also why would scum even kill the Miller claim.

If I had to guess, probably thought Disloyal Cop meant Koba would be conftown.

Which is awkward considering I suspected Koba and am going to rapidly find myself in a Deja Vu situation it seems.

[Ranger]

If it helps, my innocent was on Koba.

Thus my statement.

[Ranger]

I feel like the game can be nearly entirely broken by looking at the current claims compared to End of Day actions, as well as looking for the pre-heavy-cop play.

I’ll be busy today, yet plan to investigate tomorrow.

[Ranger]

Ranger,if you're a cop, what was your result?

I targeted Koba last night.

Yes, really, despite the Miller claim.

I had my reasons.

[Ranger]

Ranger,if you're a cop, what was your result?

I targeted Koba last night.

Yes, really, despite the Miller claim.

I had my reasons.

To be explicit, I’m not an unmodified straight Town Cop.

I don’t see the benefits in claiming my role. That I targeted Koba despite the Miller claim should be sufficient for now.

[Ranger]

I feel like the game can be nearly entirely broken by looking at the current claims compared to End of Day actions, as well as looking for the pre-heavy-cop play.

I’ll be busy today, yet plan to investigate tomorrow.

For now, I’ll say I’m sure Enchant is town.

I'd prefer to not specify why at this time. I believe it very strongly; he tops my town charts for good reason.

[Ranger]

You probably shouldn't have outed this

I felt the need to.

I couldn’t exactly lie about targeting Koba.

I can keep scum in the dark as to why.

[Ranger]

it's supposed to be a troll game so I expected either like 7 millers or just be uncc as a names townie

In hindsight, this is the funniest post in the game because Koba came

this close

to identifying the central mechanic on

page four

.

Substitute Miller for Cop, and that’s the

actual setup

.

Alianna must have been laughing.

[Ranger]

Also we probably shouldn't have outed our results. I doubt we only had 1 cop to find scum.

Results are fine, we just shouldn't be outing modifiers

Disloyal Cops should be claiming innos on no results, Loyal Cops should be coming out if they have a no result, etc. Everything else just gives the useful cops cover to post their results

Also applies for Simple/Complex/Weak.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Titus
Gut.
I believe a town-Titus would handle my slot nearly identically to how Titus did if planning to investigate me. A Ranger N1 copcheck fits her mindset perfectly.

However, pending review, my mental memory of Titus's D1 has a slight mistake from a pre-planned scum narrative to mimic her townplay.

A scum-Titus would know she would need to mimic her town-cop mindset and would be playing attempting to mimic it.

I believe she made a slight mistake, and did something she wouldn’t have if actually town.

It’s weak, and she could just be a cop. I want to place the vote for now, pending review and investigation.

[Ranger]

There’s something I want to air out after everyone has checked in and given results.

I may not have the time to review the game until tomorrow, yet I want to explore an idea and theorize the implications of what I’ll air out.

I will reiterate;
Enchant is town.
I very weakly believe Titus

slightly

deviated from what an actual town-Titus would have. It’s a way she wouldn’t have caught. She definitely would cop me as a town Cop. I think she would have done one thing slightly differently, and that betrays an accidental divergence from the town-Titus-cop methodology and mindset.

When I can verify, I’ll explain. (This requires rereading, soonest tomorrow.)

[Ranger]

Lap should have been the only real cop anyone making allusions to that should probably be voted

I shall not comment beyond stating it would make sense if I claimed.

You are incorrect about Lap being the only nonstandard cop role in the game. I agree Lap was a real Cop. I also agree there is a limited number of "real" Cops.

I didn’t know the setup last night and targeted Koba believing I would get a useful result.

I don’t believe we should be massclaiming any modifiers. Were we to, your hypothesis would immediately be proven wrong.


I’ll say no more.

[Ranger]

Hipgun firing a team of
{Titus, Doctor Drew, +1}, with the final being among {usesPython, light_ganski, JacksonVirgo}.

Titus I believe slipped not being a genuine uninformed cop.
Doctor Drew, I believe slipped not being a genuine uninformed cop around his earlypage Koba Miller claim interactions.

The third is Gut guesswork.
UsesPython looks town to me yet they always do even when scum; objectively they

may

have made a similar non-uninformed Cop slip.
Light_ganski looks like scum and also may have.
JacksonVirgo has been town to me, yet gut pings as possibly not uninformed Cop.

Enchant is town.
Political Clout I’m fairly sure is town.

{Black, ketchup777, Hu Tao} are technically unsorted, yet vibe as genuine and town to me.

All of this is pending review.

[Ranger]

I feel like the game can be nearly entirely broken by looking at the current claims compared to End of Day actions, as well as looking for the pre-heavy-cop play.

I’ll be busy today, yet plan to investigate tomorrow.

yeah we absolutely cannot rush today

On that note; I’m at l-3. Your vote + Enchant + PC.

I believe you’re all town, which leaves me theoretically within scum pile on hammer range.

Please take caution.

[Ranger]

Ranger our problem with you this game is that we can't track your progression on a few key players. How is Hu Tao's early game different enough from her later posting to go from vibing scummiest to vibing genuine and town? Why is PC town?

Political Clout feels identical to the game we just played where he was town. Additionally, despite his take being wrong, we genuinely believe he thinks it’s true, which would spew him town.

Hu Tao's early game had a more stilted forced feeling; we thought she was trying too hard. Her later posts felt more natural. I saw more light-hearted content and a sense of casual solving. Not strongly enough to lock her as town; strong enough to not push her. On D2, I just haven’t felt she’s shown the trait I’m looking for; scum who knew about the cop-heavy nature of the game. It’s far from impossible to mask said trait, or for me to miss it, yet I get neutral to positive vibes from what I’ve seen.

Why ask this now rather than D1?

[Ranger]

yet gut pings as possibly not uninformed Cop.

Clarify this please

With the Cop reveal D2, we now know that there’s presumably 1-3 Godfathers among a slough of Cops.

Every Town Cop on D1 believed they were the only cop. As Uninformed, they didn’t know.

Every scum on D1 knew. On D1, they would have to fake believing they are the only Cop.

Not-Uninformed-Cop is thus the sign of scum.

[Ranger]

After consideration, I’ve moved Titus from gut scum off a possible scum indicator to definitive scum from a smoking gun.

Look here.

Ranger's not scum.

There's got to be a catch. No fewer than 3 cops in a game. Wtf

Read every post prior on D2. It’s the page before.

Read every day two post,

closely

, then look at Titus's post.

Notice something?

[Ranger]

After consideration, I’ve moved Titus from gut scum off a possible scum indicator to definitive scum from a smoking gun.

Look here.

Ranger's not scum.

There's got to be a catch. No fewer than 3 cops in a game. Wtf

Read every post prior on D2. It’s the page before.

Read every day two post,

closely

, then look at Titus's post.

Notice something?

I’ll let you figure it out for a bit.

It’s a separate giveaway to the prior, and builds on top of the other slip, yet this one is by far the bigger.

Think about it for a while.

Think what a town cop would be thinking.
With two flipped cops, yet no indication there’s more than three.

Can you see what I saw?

[Ranger]

I fail to see how that answers my question

Every actual town Cop believed they were the only Cop on D1.

The scum clearly knew there was more than one Cop in the game, because they clearly have pre-planned Cop fakeclaims heading into D2. They had information we didn’t.

This information would be reflected in play, because every town player plays differently as a Cop thinking they’re the only Cop compared to how they would knowing the truth.

I believe it will be easy to inadvertently spot the scum TMI, where their cover slipped, and instead of playing as if they’re the only Cop, they accidentally showed they knew there were multiple cops.

I found a gigantic sign from Titus of this, as well as suspected signs elsewhere.

[Ranger]

For everybody you're calling likely informed, can you elaborate on

Titus was originally her D1 Ranger read. I’ve since spotted something far more condemning.

Drew was Miller interactions with Koba.

You, usesPython, and light_ganski are similarly Maybes, along with your D2 opener potentially being primed for the reveal in advance.

Since I’m working off memory of interactions, all but the Titus tell need to be verified by reading back.

[Ranger]

Why ask this now rather than D1?

Lap got quickhammered, why do you think?

Not until well after my last post. My reads were far from new at my last post, too. Why wait and not immediately ask?

[Ranger]

As for the Titus reveal.

Perhaps ask this.

Why is it we know everyone is a Cop?

We only have two Cop flips.

Yet everyone has claimed Cop, and results.

What started it?

[Ranger]

Counterpoint: scum figured out everyone's a cop after Drew and JV vagueposting/Titus claimed 3rd cop and scum are just people with bad cop equity like PC

The vagueposting gave no indication of a Cop setup.

Titus was explicitly claiming Cop.

Do you see the issue with an explicitly unprompted third Cop claim?

[Ranger]

I’m going to be busy most of today, so can’t type out the details of the slip.

So for the next 26 - 30 hours, let me leave with this:

Why do we know there’s more than three Cops?

Why wasn’t it possible to have Copx3 + 7VT?
Or something similar?

What made it impossible to you?

Or more importantly, what made it impossible to

Titus

?

What made it not just suspect shenanigans? What confirmed there were?

[Ranger]

As soon as Koba flipped I knew what we were dealing with, it's obvious is it not? Drew caught it, as did I and Titus did too hence their claim.

Was it?

That’s the issue.

What made it all cops, not just three or four?

It wasn’t obvious to me.
It isn’t something which is clearly the case, just from two different Cop flips.

Yes, everyone looking would suspect shenanigans via knowing they are a third Cop.

What

confirmed

it was shenanigans, and what made it not worth sitting on?

For instance, you and Drew remained ambiguous. When reading, I didn’t know you were referring to Cop shenanigans. "Notice something?" Could have meant anything. You didn’t hint at an innocent and neither did Drew. Neither of you indicated you had investigated.

Why didn’t Titus do similarly?

Why did she get explicit and not leave things vague?

Especially given it’s

Titus

, whose modus operandi is vagueness in claims?

[Ranger]

Especially given it’s

Titus

, whose modus operandi is vagueness in claims?

For those unfamiliar with Titus's meta;
Titus is infamous for trying to coordinate inthread with other townies and attempt to lay traps for scum.

To communicate secretly with players using code words, off of an understood connection.

I can think of many, and link at least one in 30 hours.

So, if you assume Titus did see the JV-Drew interaction,

why didn’t she try to lay a trap for scum?

Why didn’t she try to work with JV and Drew?
Why did she explicitly claim, rather than remain vague and see from others if her suspicion was correct?

She didn’t act like a third Cop trying to scope out the setup.

She acted like she knew everyone was a Cop and there was no point in laying a trap.

[Ranger]

I have juicy battle plans for after light is here I promise

I also have thoughts to give when I can.

[Ranger]

I was so excited for this game since I was finally cop and now I got tricked I feel deflated today ngl :lol:

saaaaaaame you should’ve seen the absolute ENTHUSIASM in my response to the role PM but hey this is fun too (:

Perhaps curb talk about your role, as to protect any variants.

[Ranger]

I tried reading some of the spec talk and Ranger vs. Titus but my eyes started to glaze over

I will plainly restate it to you later.

[Ranger]

It only went badly because Ranger mysteriously not-so-cryptically claimed to not be a normal cop, so now we might be completely screwed PRwise.

In my defense, I felt I had to.

It was public knowledge by that point we were dealing with all cops. I targeted a Miller claim who died N1.
Not exactly something I wanted to out.

[Ranger]

Enchant is conftown because they're the only Vanilla Townie

I wasn’t going to explicitly spell this out. It makes Enchant the defacto N2 kill, and since he's conftown, I didn’t want him dead N1.

But, I can vouch for this.

Enchant is very very obviously the obligatory VT in this game, which means he's always town.

[Ranger]

I feel like the game can be nearly entirely broken by looking at the current claims compared to End of Day actions, as well as looking for the pre-heavy-cop play.

I’ll be busy today, yet plan to investigate tomorrow.

For now, I’ll say I’m sure Enchant is town.

I'd prefer to not specify why at this time. I believe it very strongly; he tops my town charts for good reason.

The reason being I didn’t want him dead.

[Ranger]

I feel like the game can be nearly entirely broken by looking at the current claims compared to End of Day actions, as well as looking for the pre-heavy-cop play.

I’ll be busy today, yet plan to investigate tomorrow.

are we thinking massclaim? because I think not, if we get another night of results I think this becomes more realistic

No, not massclaim. Actually the opposite.

Assume:
Scum have 1-3 Godfathers, unannounced being the broken Normal rule;
Scum knew or otherwise deduced the setup was nearly entirely cops;
Every actual Town Cop believed they were the only Cop on D1;
Scum, knowing this, would try to fake a perspective of being the only Cop, yet at some point likely slipped in knowing there’s more;
Check if investigations line up with perspectives above.

Assume everyone who has claimed is a normal Cop until proven otherwise, as to avoid a need for massclaim.

Just in case there’s limited Godfathers, cross-reference checks to see viable teams with 1 Godfather and 2. (3 is anyone and everyone can be paired.)

However, since we don’t know the number of Godfathers, don’t limit eliminations to assuming so.

[Ranger]

Ranger a lot of your ISO seems like "raising hypotheticals that all lead to titus"

Yes, perhaps read why.

I believe I have caught a Perspective Slip from Titus (actually two, yet the D2 one by far the bigger), which gives away she’s Scum who knew this was an all-Cops game before any other player.

The hypotheticals as you label them are me trying to guide you through the slip until such a time as I can explain clearly what it was.

[Ranger]

{Enchant}
---
{Political Clout}
{ketchup777}
{Hu Tao}
{Black}
{UsesPython}
{JacksonVirgo}
{light_ganski}
{Doctor Drew}
---
{Titus}

This is where I’m at rn.

Enchant conftown via being our obligatory VT, Titus hardscum from her perspective slip.

[Ranger]

In my heart of hearts, I fear a {Titus, Doctor Drew, usesPython} team is the most likely team, but I hold out hope of Python being town and the third scum being among the others.

[Ranger]

Then you can explain these so called slips like I'm 5. Now, it looks like panic.

It seems to me you’re the one panicking as you can’t figure out why you got caught and see I am getting support.

[Ranger]

In my heart of hearts, I fear a {Titus, Doctor Drew, usesPython} team is the most likely team, but I hold out hope of Python being town and the third scum being among the others.

This team doesn't make sense with your reads. You completely skip over Jackson and light.

You know better than to correlate a readslist with an exact team solve. The two are entirely separate. They

often

match; there’s no

requirement

they do.

I have usesPython as more town than JacksonVirgo or light_ganski. I also believe with Titus + Drew as scum, usesPython is the most likely third, despite independently being the towniest of the three.

[Ranger]

@mod would no VTs violate normal regulations?

The rules definitely don’t say there is at least one VT, however i am curious as to whether this would count as the one thing breaking the rules or not (obviously it might not be applicable but worth checking)

We know there’s one, and

exactly

one, rule break.

One VT is still required, even in Complex games. If there were none, that would be the rule break.

If there are unannounced Godfathers, that would be the rule break.

Since Enchant has been triple-cleared, he cannot be scum without being a Godfather.

Yet as the VT he is town.

[Ranger]

Interesting, I got a wave of scummy vibe from Black just now. Not sure if that's because I feel that was a silly argument to make, or if they're scum but worth noting

It’s possible.

I believe Town Cop v Scum Panic is detectable, yet Black's analysis certainly isn’t how to.

[Ranger]

Why am I town

You're my masonbuddy with usesPython,

obviously

.

But we're masons #jealous. Don't go break my heart tonight.

Here's a subtle crumb. Ranger's town unless she breaks my heart (by being a scum check).

That’s the issue.

You were acting as if you knew you needed to be seen as a Town Cop.

[Ranger]

I'll explain in about 12 hours if exhaustion doesn’t claim me. (It may, as per the last two days.)

[Ranger]

I'm wary of voting light because of titus and python on the wagon but maybe I should step on the gas and find out which pairing makes most sense...

I’ll give you a hint.

If a team feels wrong, it is.

There’s also no rush.

I’ve promised to explain why Titus is spewed scum here.

Exhaustion delayed delivery, yet the promise remains.

I certainly am willing to vote light, and have been the whole game (perhaps a hint as to how valid the idea I'd be paired with him is), yet I see no reason to settle for possible scum when I’ve found definitive scum.

[Ranger]

VOTE: ranger

interesting.

Quite. It demonstrates to me light has no interest in self-preservation despite his claim of nonstandard cop. He’s not going to dissolve his wagon or get momentum on a counterwagon by voting me.

The above, I’m certain about. What this translates into for alignment, I make no final judgment yet. I can see town pursuing their reads not caring, I can see scum making a strategic decision to not save themselves. Which of the two, I am pondering; I lean scum.

[Ranger]

Can someone mechanically explain why Enchant is confTown again?(this isn't snark, I want to dot the I's and cross the T's here)

We're mechanically guaranteed a VT, and Enchant is the VT.

He must therefore be town.

[Ranger]

Where’s the consolidation wagon? I’m not doing Titus

I'm not budging from Titus when she is spewed scum.

[Ranger]

VOTE: Black

I want it put on the record Black could be scum.

I’m skeptical she is, and regardless see no reason to abandon pursuing the much more likely scum, Titus.

[Ranger]

Also why are people looking for consolidation wagons when there's 7 days until the deadline

An excellent question.

[Ranger]

Notably, while none of their posting is objectively scummy, vibecheck wise I hard scumread usesPython for page 67.

[Ranger]

We don't want Drew or Black here

Then from your perspective, you should be looking at Titus and light.

Unless you believe I fail the vibecheck, I would be town.
Enchant would be town.

That limits your options to {JV, PC, Titus, light_ganski, Hu Tao, ketchup777}.

Unless you believe a team of {Hu Tao, ketchup777, PC}, one of Titus or light must be scum.

[Ranger]

Vibewise I’m feeling usesPython is scum with Titus, although I don’t actually think Drew would be the third. I’m figuring it out as I go. The easy answer is light_ganski; easy isn’t always correct.

I’m certainly hoping I’m wrong. If usesPython is town, I want to work with them. Yet it bears mentioning I do think their vibes are off, as it feels their actions don’t match their perspective.

[Ranger]

Is there a PoE solve yet? Python/JV/Drew/Enchant, 11 alive so need 6 townies

feels odd to class these as definitely out of the picture, even if you feel confident they’re town

The greater concern is usesPython's actions not matching this perspective.

If they are confident Black, JV, Drew, and Enchant are all town, then adding themselves, they have 5/11 town.

Unless they think I am scum, I would be the sixth town.

That would leave three scum in {ketchup777, Hu Tao, Political Clout, light_ganski, Titus}.

Voting you out of those options rather than any of {PC, light_ganski, Titus} is an odd choice, as there’s no support for it and nobody usesPython believes town suspected you.

If usesPython were sheeping, they would be Voting light_ganski or Titus. Maybe PC. Even if independent, a push on you seems worthless, whereas pressuring the others could be worthwhile.

I struggle to see how a town usesPython arrives with a ketchup777 vote while staying consistent in mindset.

[Ranger]

Where’s the consolidation wagon? I’m not doing Titus

I'm not budging from Titus when she is spewed scum.

I think Titus is scummy but I would prefer it if you explained why instead of just repeating that she's spewed scum

I’ve repeatedly stated why.

She’s at least twice slipped knowledge of an all cops vs Godfathers game, despite as town how she wouldn’t have.

What I haven’t done is show my work and explain why her posts have done so, yet I’ve pointed in the key areas.

Titus was treating D1 as if she were going to join the other cops in claiming, not as if she were the only Cop.

Her opening to today gave this away in a more definitive fashion.

There’s a difference between suspecting shenanigans and claiming outright a result which should have been kept private.

Why did Titus open today explicitly stating I am town? Why not hide the result and just breadcrumb it? Why claim investigative rather than state something is suspect and leave it vague?

You can look for yourself how Titus's actions don’t align with that of a town cop going into today.

[Ranger]

Ranger idk where you're getting the idea we townread you, we've been pretty clear about not townreading you

You voted Titus, and haven’t voted us. In fact, you've defended me.

Your actions say you are treating us as town.

[Ranger]

We never voted titus and I don't remember us defending you d2 this game

Strange, I could've sworn I saw you on the Titus wagon voting there at some point; it's not showing. Similarly, I could've sworn there was posts where you indicated you saw my viewpoint and where I was coming from, along with commenting on my claim. I found neither when looking, yet remember both from you.

[Ranger]

Ranger what's your read on ketchup

In the mess of players my read most changes on, at the top for being the most town of them.

Current thoughts;
{Enchant}
{Political Clout}
{Doctor Drew, JacksonVirgo} (depending on how much stock I put in JV+Drew's D2 interaction being towntelling combined with scum suspects having antipartner equity rn)
{ketchup777}
{Black, Hu Tao}
{Doctor Drew, JacksonVirgo} (depending on how much stock I put in JV+Drew's D2 interaction being towntelling combined with scum suspects having antipartner equity rn)
{light_ganski}
{usesPython}
{Titus}

[Ranger]

Ooh I just had another thought; what if scum were informed to some degree? So they didn’t get caught out in a massclaim? Seems plausible. Like they are informed that the majority of town players are cops.

My scumread on Titus is based around this, and her having shown she knew it in advance.

[Ranger]

Mmhmm. I'm getting somewhat of an informed vibe from their reads on Drew and I. If python is scum I think Drew is probably spewed town

I agree, and extend that to you as well.

I believe usesPython-scum spews all of {JacksonVirgo, Doctor Drew, Black} as town, potentially ketchup777 too.

[Ranger]

anyone feeling anti-serpentine enough to accompany me to the departure of Python?

Only if I can't get Titus or light through.

[Ranger]

Ranger could have figured it out D2. She was late to the party and claimed to not be a normal cop, which is odd considering she only had one vote on her at this point.

In my defense, I felt I had to.

As much as I love fakeclaiming, I need inspiration to fakeclaim, as well as time to craft it.

If I had more time to think it through, I could've figured out something to justify, yet in the moment, I couldn't think of anything. What was I supposed to do? Claim I'm a normal Cop who thought Koba was lying about being a Miller? Claim I'm a normal Cop who forgot Koba claimed Miller and investigated them not remembering it? Lie about my target which could have disastrous consequences?

Despite my skills at fakeclaiming, sometimes I can't do anything except tell the truth. I'm not a vanilla Town Cop. I'm something which thought a useful result would come from copping Koba. That's as much as I will say.

[Ranger]

titus usespython lightganski I think this might be the team.

That's my current solve as well, although the only one I'm super-confident on is Titus.

[Ranger]

Also if anyone actually thinks Ranger isn't fakeclaiming like always we've got a bridge to sell you

Alas. Fakeclaiming would have been smart. We sadly aren't.

[Ranger]

quote=usesPython post_id=14115920 post_num=1930 time=1709848361 user_id=36963]Also if anyone actually thinks Ranger isn't fakeclaiming like always we've got a bridge to sell you

what?

Ranger fakeclaims like every game regardless of alignment[/quote]The biggest surprise will be when people realize I told the truth.

[Ranger]

aaaaaaaaaaaaah I dont knowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww who it isssssssssss

Try Titus.

[Ranger]

Are you keeping up with the thread while at work or what?

Most of my posts come from work.

[Ranger]

oops I didn’t realise you were implying informed in that way

I believe if there's more than one Godfather, it need not strictly be

informed

informed; it's definitely scum knowledge of a Cop-heavy setup. (If you're scum and see Godfather x 3 is your team comp, wouldn't you assume cop-heavy and assume cop claims are needed?)

[Ranger]

Ranger do you ever unvote? (not vote for anyone at some point?)

When there's reason to.

Lylo, speed unvote (to prevent hammers), voting mechanics, having a requirement to wait, vote thresholds being dangerously low, no idea where to, need to remove the vote with absolutely no idea where to place it, etc.

Otherwise, I see no reason to. You're given two universal tools, wasting the vote is as wasteful as not voicing.

My reads are fluid, I don't need to vote my strongest scumread in the moment to still see the value of voting.

[Ranger]

I still don't understand why light was unvoted

"too easy" combined with paranoia and self-doubt. Which is fair, I'm not remotely confident light flips scum.

[Ranger]

If I were to embrace my inner Ranger:
{Jackson, Enchant, me}
{Black}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{LightGanski}
{Political Clout, Ranger, Titus, Doctor Drew}

Almost top tier, although your PC/Ranger/Drew reads imo are

tier

ably placed.

[Ranger]

@ranger when you get here if you could answer #1989 that;'d be great (ik Python kind of answered for u but i'd be specifically interested in how often you unvote as town as well and why you would/wouldn't unvote)

I unvote with no revote if there's a need for speed of the unvote and no time to think of a good replacement.

[Ranger]

are

tier

ably placed.

VOTE: Ranger

Silly jokes are a defining trait of mine, although I sadly display it far less often than I used to. Glad I could entertain. o7

[Ranger]

Got no idea how close anybody is, shouldn't risk those types of jokes on a whim oops

But JV, you posted this directly under a VC, how could you not know the votes???

:P

[Ranger]

(For those looking at this from the future refer to the timestamps of the edited votecount for when it was given.)

[Ranger]

Also for those curious;
I did ask Alianna if an unannounced Godfather would violate Normal guidelines; the answer was yes.
I asked the followthrough question if two Godfathers would count as one violation or two; the answer is one, so there can be 2 - 3.

[Ranger]

Got no idea how close anybody is, shouldn't risk those types of jokes on a whim oops

But JV, you posted this directly under a VC, how could you not know the votes???

VOTE: Ranger

When given the chance, I love to be a gremlin and troll. <3

[Ranger]

Also for those curious;
I did ask Alianna if an unannounced Godfather would violate Normal guidelines; the answer was yes.
I asked the followthrough question if two Godfathers would count as one violation or two; the answer is one, so there can be 2 - 3.

I additionally asked if no Vanilla Townie would count as a violation; Alianna confirmed.

Therefore, by the power of Askus Moderatus, we have confirmation; if we have a Godfather or Godfathers, there must be a Vanilla Townie.

[Ranger]

quote=ketchup777 post_id=14116758 post_num=2005 time=1709916451 user_id=37327]If I were to embrace my inner Ranger:
{Jackson, Enchant, me}
{Black}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{LightGanski}
{Political Clout, Ranger, Titus, Doctor Drew}

Almost top tier, although your PC/Ranger/Drew reads imo are

tier

ably placed.

I certainly disagree how he

drew

it up[/quote]

Drew

bad. Such a shame.

[Ranger]

I was curious about how you had Laplacian as only your 4th highest scum read yet didnt unvote or vote for anyone you deemed scummier, when previously you had immediately switched to voting your new top scumreads when they got to the top of your list?

When there's no serious wagons, I've every reason to vote my strongest scumread, as moving my vote doesn't impact anything already there, and can shift the game.

When there's serious wagons, I've every reason to vote the scumread of mine with the most support, usually in the form of most votes.

My serious choices D1 were Laplacian and light. I scumread both and both wagons were loosely equal. Laplacian had

slightly

more, so I kept my vote there.

[Ranger]

be wary of the shrike

It shrikes when you least expect,

[Ranger]

You said you weren’t very confident in your reads tho, in fact were dissatisfied with them. Didn’t you fear wagoning so quickly?

Dissatisfaction with reads is no reason to not vote. It certainly means I'm more willing to switch my vote. I see no reason to unvote from dissatisfaction when a vote swap can accomplish the same. I had no fear of wagoning Laplacian. I was content with my vote. I'm not going to rewrite history and say differently about my stance. I was satisfied leaving my vote on Laplacian and thought Lap had a good chance of being scum. Had I been around to see Lap claim, I wouldn't have believed the claim and would've insisted it was fake, calling for those unvoting to revote.

[Ranger]

Preamble:

Spoiler: This is every D2 post prior to Titus' entrance

@Enchant, any first words?

Man. I was about to come into today upset at koba. Because Lap's claim sounded like it was there to find miller's. But I was also going to say koba was probably town for it because of Lap's role. But now I'm shook. Also why would scum even kill the Miller claim.

@Enchant, any first words?

Any last words?

Man. I was about to come into today upset at koba. Because Lap's claim sounded like it was there to find miller's. But I was also going to say koba was probably town for it because of Lap's role. But now I'm shook. Also why would scum even kill the Miller claim.

I got no time for shook ones #mobbdeep

Man. I was about to come into today upset at koba. Because Lap's claim sounded like it was there to find miller's. But I was also going to say koba was probably town for it because of Lap's role. But now I'm shook. Also why would scum even kill the Miller claim.

I'm upset Lap went out but it is what it is. I think Drew is town from that, so at least there's that.

VOTE: Ganski
For good measure

Scum is probably somewhere on the wagon. I'd say I like PCs vote the best out of all. So he's prob town.

I think Ranger and Ganski both look bad given that flip

@Enchant, any first words?

Any last words?

Of course, my last words are

Spoiler: Last Words

Drew, you catch what I caught?

Yes I think so

Special;

Quite an interesting setup

Drew, you catch what I caught?

[Ranger]

With the preamble established, let's look at this Titus post. You know every post in D2 before this one, and this was Titus's first post of the day.

Ranger's not scum.
There's got to be a catch.

No fewer than 3 cops

in a game. Wtf

Titus

immediately

claimed third cop, and said there must be a catch, claiming an innocent on me.

Why would

Titus

, infamous for keeping cards close to her chest unless absolutely necessary, claim Cop

unprompted

, and out her innocent with zero pressure on

either her or her target

? She had no votes, I had no votes, both were under minimal suspicion.

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why couldn't this have been a valid setup?

Spoiler: Hypothetical Setup

This is a Valid Normal setup

Town Disloyal Cop
Town Cop
Town Cop
Vanilla Townie x 7

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon x2

Titus has played Normal Games where every town role was the same.

There's Normal Games like this which feature three investigatives.

What stopped the game from being a Normal game with 3 cops, maybe some extra TPRs, and some mafia PRs against them?

In a town-Titus perspective,

at the time she claimed

, it was fully possible

she was the only living investigative left

. What if there were only 3 Cops in the entire game? Titus recklessly would have outed herself on D2 with a single result in her

first post

.

This makes no sense in a town-Titus world, especially as I believe she specified she hadn't read the prior content (although I can't find that in her iso). She'd have no reason to hand the scum free kills on myself and herself and prevent herself from generating any read. Especially because it's

Titus

. These actions wouldn't fit for

any

player; they are extra egregious from Titus.

This makes sense in a scum-Titus world, as she would know the Cop-heavy nature of the setup either through explicit information or Scum Godfathers deduction, inferring it from the scum roles. She would know her claim would trigger a chain-reaction of Cop claims, revealing the all-Cop setup on D2.

A town-Titus would hold her role close to her chest. She may have implied it with a sentence like "I smell shenanigans", left unexplained.

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

That's the perspective slip.

[Ranger]

Oh oh, what's gonna drop

Without the fluff, as succinctly as I can,

this was Titus's first post of the day.

Ranger's not scum.
There's got to be a catch.

No fewer than 3 cops

in a game. Wtf

Titus

immediately

claimed third cop, and said there must be a catch, claiming an innocent on me.

Why would

Titus

, infamous for keeping cards close to her chest unless absolutely necessary, claim Cop

unprompted

, and out her innocent with zero pressure on

either her or her target

? She had no votes, I had no votes, both were under minimal suspicion.

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why (out)?

At the time she claimed

, it was fully possible

she was the only living investigative left

.

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

That's the perspective slip.

[Ranger]

this was Titus's first post of the day.

Ranger's not scum.
There's got to be a catch.

No fewer than 3 cops

in a game. Wtf

Titus

immediately

claimed third cop, and said there must be a catch, claiming an innocent on me.

Why would

Titus

, infamous for keeping cards close to her chest unless absolutely necessary, claim Cop

unprompted

, and out her innocent with zero pressure on

either her or her target

? She had no votes, I had no votes, both were under minimal suspicion.

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why (out)?

At the time she claimed

, it was fully possible

she was the only living investigative left

.

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

That's the perspective slip.

This is the heart of it.

[Ranger]

I'm fine with light or Jackson

Perhaps consider;

this was Titus's first post of the day.

Ranger's not scum.
There's got to be a catch.

No fewer than 3 cops

in a game. Wtf

Titus

immediately

claimed third cop, and said there must be a catch, claiming an innocent on me.

Why would

Titus

, infamous for keeping cards close to her chest unless absolutely necessary, claim Cop

unprompted

, and out her innocent with zero pressure on

either her or her target

? She had no votes, I had no votes, both were under minimal suspicion.

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why (out)?

At the time she claimed

, it was fully possible

she was the only living investigative left

.

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

That's the perspective slip.

[Ranger]

i'm not saying no right now because titus is up there as a potential partner to them

If Titus is potential scum to you, perhaps listen;

this was Titus's first post of the day.

Ranger's not scum.
There's got to be a catch.

No fewer than 3 cops

in a game. Wtf

Titus

immediately

claimed third cop, and said there must be a catch, claiming an innocent on me.

Why would

Titus

, infamous for keeping cards close to her chest unless absolutely necessary, claim Cop

unprompted

, and out her innocent with zero pressure on

either her or her target

? She had no votes, I had no votes, both were under minimal suspicion.

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why (out)?

At the time she claimed

, it was fully possible

she was the only living investigative left

.

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

That's the perspective slip.

[Ranger]

Before I add my thoughts, why make a special section for my two posts about the setup when u didn’t use them for anything? Lol

It also was meant to have the Drew section there. The 'special' part of it was merely highlighting how they weren't hinting at being a Cop. You and Drew said

nothing

in your "notice something?" exchange. Noticing something could've been a shared read. Noticing something could've been a thought about scum killing Koba. Noticing something could've been spotting a suspect interaction at the end of D1. There was nothing which, even if Titus

did

read it, would have told her you were Cops.

[Ranger]

titus usespython lightganski I think this might be the team.

Join me on Titus please?

I want her at l-2 minimum. We can continue discussing if need be and not place her higher if there's value in continued talks. If you're satisfied though, Titus should get 5 - 6 votes.

[Ranger]

consider my vote on Titus for now but also I would never do her like that while she’s ill (I totally would but whatever)

Please return to voting her when you feel it's safe to. Though we need not end the day, she should be the lim today.

[Ranger]

And my question to Titus about how would they act as town cop......well, I still would prefer a reponse from her, then we can examine her response

I still owe you this, to subsidize this;

this was Titus's first post of the day.

Ranger's not scum.
There's got to be a catch.

No fewer than 3 cops

in a game. Wtf

Titus

immediately

claimed third cop, and said there must be a catch, claiming an innocent on me.

Why would

Titus

, infamous for keeping cards close to her chest unless absolutely necessary, claim Cop

unprompted

, and out her innocent with zero pressure on

either her or her target

? She had no votes, I had no votes, both were under minimal suspicion.

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why (out)?

At the time she claimed

, it was fully possible

she was the only living investigative left

.

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

That's the perspective slip.

This is Titus's first D2 post as a 1x Cop, specifically a JOAT. One of her JOAT powers was a protective, and this is how she hinted at it.

That's not the best example.
This is a much better one. Look at how subtle her breadcrumb is. This is her hint as to being an investigative. She was a cop activated N3 onwards, and her first post of D3 gave a

subtle

result, with her promising to break the game.

As a cop-adjacent role, Titus gave this as her opener to D2. I realize nonconsecutive Tracker/Follower isn't a Cop, yet in

Titus's

perspective, she would see it as so, and treat it appropriately powerfully. She further hinted in her next posts. Not explicit, yet still implied.

It's tedious to track down every instance of Titus receiving a cop or cop-like role. These should be sufficient to show the trait.

[Ranger]

Just to nail importance, not hammering.

You can hammer Titus instead. <3

[Ranger]

the rest is awesome but can you just explain the 'no fewer than' vs 'at least' bit in more words

"at least three" as a wording places focus on three with the possibility of more;
"no fewer than" as a wording places focus on the possibility of more with the three being the minimum.

Language usage matters.
"at least 3" would imply 3 with the

possibility

of more (where Titus could be the potential last Cop);

By stating 'no fewer than', Titus is implying there's

far more than

3.

That difference translates into the implication of the statement.

[Ranger]

A scum-Titus gave it away with the bolded part, the true key. "no fewer than 3 cops".

Why did Titus assume there were

no fewer than

three cops, instead of

at least

three

?

Those statements are logically identical.
No fewer than three = three or more
At least three = three or more

Word usage translates to different implied meaning. You can state the same thing in two different ways and convey entirely different meanings despite the thing not changing. You can say "I townread everyone except 3 players" and "I don't see town in 3 players". The two are technically conveying the same information, yet the way they are conveyed carries a different implication.

At least 3 would've left more than 3 as the possibility, not a guarantee;
No fewer than 3 equates to an implication of

far more than

, which gives away Titus knew there were far more than 3.

[Ranger]

At the risk of doing the same thing I accused ketchup of doing: because that'd still bare minimum generate one hard clear a day assuming perfect roleblocks, more realistically two+ clears a day which mechanically locks the game by d3 if scum get unlucky with checks and kills

You are focusing on the specific setup example provided rather than the actual issue.

Titus as town would have no way of knowing the setup. Titus as town would have no way of knowing she wasn't the last living investigative. There's thousands, millions, of possible setups Alianna could create where there's precisely three Cops, facing a scumteam which has answers to it.

Why did Titus out despite the risk she was the last investigative

? Especially given Titus has a strong habit of dealing in subtleties, her claim indicates she knew there were more Cops.

[Ranger]

From the perspective of a town-Titus

, why couldn't this have been a valid setup?

Spoiler: Hypothetical Setup

This is a Valid Normal setup

Town Disloyal Cop
Town Cop
Town Cop
Vanilla Townie x 7

Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Goon x2

At the risk of doing the same thing I accused ketchup of doing: because that'd still bare minimum generate one hard clear a day assuming perfect roleblocks, more realistically two+ clears a day which mechanically locks the game by d3 if scum get unlucky with checks and kills

this one I can get behind, however it’s possible they had 2 ascetic mafia or something vs 3 cops

with some ascetic townies thrown in for good measure

Again, try not to miss the issue of criticizing the exact setup I proposed and go on a pipeline of hypothetical extra setups.

The point isn't Titus claimed despite the possibility of

(specific hypothetical setup ADFBGEGDP)

;
The point is Titus claimed despite how

there were countless setups where she could have been outing as the last investigative

.

We know now those countless hypothetical setups don't exist, with hindsight of knowing the setup.

How did Titus,

at the time she claimed

, know those countless hypotheticals didn't exist?

You can have any number of setups with only 3 Cops; a town-Titus

wouldn't know the setup

enough to know we weren't in a 3-Cop setup.

[Ranger]

Ranger was just waiting for people to start seeing me as town.

You know better than to conflate life circumstances with strategic planning. I've been planning to deliver on this slip from the moment I spotted it; life prevented me until now.

[Ranger]

hi I have a guilty on ranger

VOTE: ranger

I sincerely doubt it, given I’m the only role which there’s zero possible guilties for.

I accidentally hard-slipped yesterday and scrambled to cover up I spewed my true role by revealing I was the only player in the game to not know we were in an all-Cop setup.

My fake claim was going to be a cheeky noncombined nonmultitasking Vigilante Tracker who tracked Koba N1; I was forced to pivot when I realized I was the only conftown in the game.

[Ranger]

Like if Ranger is actually a good cop quickhammering will be disastrous

Worse. I’m the VT, so quick hammering me is eliminating the only conftown in the entire setup.

Again, I did slip this hard-core at the beginning of yesterday. I had to scramble to try and disguise myself as a bluffing Cop, despite accidentally slipping VT.

Props to Enchant for going along with me framing him as the IC.

[Ranger]

Enchant still alive that's pretty funny

My theory; scum were banking on 1 town player buying the guilty, piling on, and banking on Enchant hammering.

That would give them N3 to auto kill the perceived VT, and a free pass to lylo with at least one town player who could be mislimmed.

Light was always going down; going down by taking out the perceived power role then killing the perceived VT would be a good deal.

[Ranger]

For what it’s worth;
UsesPython does look town to me, both from accurately predicting I was fake claiming and from going at me in the way they did.

However, I can also see it as possible UsesPython was setting up for things as scum assuming I was a vanilla Cop, and figured their antics would look good after light flipped scum today or tomorrow, depending on the direction of today.

I’ve absolutely no idea who's maf with light. I’ll look when I can.

[Ranger]

obvs I think that they are out of order because you and at least one other mafia buddy came together in the night to find anti Light posts, then you just went to the scum PT today, selected multiple quotes and job done

I can guarantee this wrong, yet think this only comes from town.

Enchant still tops my town charts; ketchup777 is second highest.

That leaves two scum in {Black, usesPython, Hu Tao, Doctor Drew, Political Clout}.

I’m still figuring that pile out.

[Ranger]

My hip gun vibe callout would be {light_ganski, Doctor Drew, Black}; I’ve no backing for it.

[Ranger]

My hip gun vibe callout would be {light_ganski, Doctor Drew, Black}; I’ve no backing for it.

It may be {light_ganski, Black, usesPython}.

The way Doctor Drew acted both end of D1 and beginning of D2 seems genuinely town. It also seems strange to kill JacksonVirgo when JV and Drew are being buddy buddy.

It’s certainly possible for Drew to be scum (his D3 play has been terrible); it seems unlikely.

I still townread Enchant, and I am townreading ketchup777.

I don’t think ketchup777 is correct about the solve being {light_ganski, Black, Political Clout}, which would leave usesPython as scum with one of the two.

I do think Black is likely scum, in part specifically because the strength of her conviction behind opposing light_ganski. There’s also the question of if not her, then who?

However, a great many things are needed. A review of D1, D2, rereading events today, and considering if the kills were simply off the players' reads. I need to see Koba's stances and review JV's to see if their kills were thanks to getting too close to something, rather than rolehunting as previously assumed.

[Ranger]

ketchup777
usesPython
Doctor Drew
JacksonVirgo
Political Clout
Hu Tao
light_ganski
Black
Titus
Laplacian
Ranger
Arko*

this is generally where I'm at right now

Hmm, unless Enchant is scum with Black or maybe Hu Tao, it doesn’t seem like Koba was killed for reads.

It’s certainly still possible, yet doubtful. I’m sure Koba will have words with me when I join them.

[Ranger]

Speaking of

VOTE: Black

If Black is scum, it feels this alone justifies the JV kill.

[Ranger]

Drew is just... unbelievably town. I don't get any scum-read on him, I just cannot understand how anybody cannot see it

To reiterate, it’s certainly possible for a team with Doctor Drew to kill JV; it seems unlikely.

[Ranger]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

Approximately where I’m at.

Political Clout is certainly possible scum, yet doesn’t feel like it.

Hu Tao is largely null, and if my solve is off, I'd put her as the replacement scum.

[Ranger]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

Approximately where I’m at.

Political Clout is certainly possible scum, yet doesn’t feel like it.

Hu Tao is largely null, and if my solve is off, I'd put her as the replacement scum.

It may actually be {light_ganski, Black, Hu Tao}, as both Hu Tao and Black were late to the copclaim fest on D2, and neither seemed like they were playing as a cop on D1 the way Drew and JV did.

[Ranger]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

Approximately where I’m at.

Political Clout is certainly possible scum, yet doesn’t feel like it.

Hu Tao is largely null, and if my solve is off, I'd put her as the replacement scum.

I guess you've known all along that Enchant might not be VT and previously might have wanted to pretend Enchant was top townread. Now there's nothing to hide, aren't you even a little bit concerned Enchant is maf?

A little bit? Sure. He's possibly scum. I think his going along with the VT plan strongly indicates he's town, along with his doubts about three players investigating him.

[Ranger]

I still think it's probably Drew and python.

Though possible scum piled on, I've my doubts.

I want to have a final look at the light wagons on D1 and D2, as those could reflect who has TMI about light being scum.

However, people can hammer light at any time should they feel the need to.

[Ranger]

We'll let Ranger check in one last time before we drop the E-1

Been sick, tryin to recover; I don't think I'll find anything groundbreaking by looking at the light suspicion through the game, yet if I can I want to.

[Ranger]

{Enchant}
{ketchup777}
{Doctor Drew}
{Political Clout}
{Hu Tao}
{UsesPython}
{Black}
---
{Light_ganski}

huh

[Ranger]

Ranger fake claiming? I'm shocked

I've been looking for a good summary of that aspect of my play to sig; I think I just found it.

[Ranger]

RANGER IS GONNA KILL US ALL

The solution to me killing scum is for scum to kill me first.

[Ranger]

Oh my god, Black and Python are scum AGAIN???

I believe I said something to this effect early-on, on D1 or D2; I certainly thought it, yet dismissed it.

Whoops!

[Ranger]

Also I'm loving the fact that Ranger is a VT because she's OBVIOUSLY going to fake claim.

When you're right, you're right.

[Ranger]

Wanted max thread control for lights 1v1 and misread Rangers fakeclaim as Town Cop instead of VT

Just as planned. :P

[Ranger]

Enchant rolling VT won town the game I think

Ranger not Enchant

No I'm pretty sure Enchant was the VT, I said as much D2.

[Ranger]

shame none of us realised ranger was the VT

Glad I could lead you astray. <3

[Ranger]

Shame I got killed for being a VT.