Mini 1199 - Plissken's Pit [GAME OVER]

[yabbaguy]

Hi there everyone.

[yabbaguy]

FoS: Rikana

(@IS: are you planning on using an FoS this game yourself? )

Rikana's trying to be cute with this lulzy sort of speech and a) it's driving me up the wall and b) I perceive it as a facade for not getting much done. That said, that lock-on on bristep could be tunnelvisioning which is something that Town does, but I'm not persuaded. Watching him.

@malp: How often do you get lynched...
1) ...ever?
2) ...on Day 1?
3) ...as Town?

If someone has a high mislynch propensity, it absolutely must be taken into account. I refuse to even have a look at malp until I learn that, and he can simply tell me instead of making me do the work to look the meta up myself.

@RandomGuy: Don't do RQS ever again. Ever. It's semantics, and I know I coined the acronym and all, but it's a terrible thing. Just don't.

Vote: smallpeoples343 (Please prod!)

Glance at the ISO, glance at Latest Posts, and you are going to all kick yourselves for a ridiculous oversight.

[yabbaguy]

@Rik: you=alt Y/N?

[yabbaguy]

I'm here.

POST SOMETHING SUBSTANTIVE AND USEFUL, STUPID!

Guys, forget everyone else who squawks "pick me! pick my wagon!". This is such a blindingly obvious good choice that you will see for yourself in two easy searches, guaranteed, or your wasted time refunded.

[yabbaguy]

Ok, smallpeoples is lurking in this game but being active elsewhere but that's not a fo' sho' scum tell is it? There's plenty not participating here (including Rikana, emp, mal, randomguy, myself and others) so why is smallpeoples the scummist lurker of them all? I'm not saying that you're 100% wrong but I really don't want to open the game with a round of 'lynch the lurker'.

Explain. Why would he lurk? Is he bored? Is he scared? Is he forgetting? Is he aware that he's lurking, or is he oblivious? Mafia's all random bullshit, so you just have to lynch scummy players and hope that they are in fact scum. My thought is that his blatant refusal to do anything worthwhile is indicative of scum.

Last time when I saw a player start with active lurking, it was a newbie game and she showed Town. So eh, it's not sure-fire. But there's nothing wrong with threatening to punish someone for doing diddly-squat. I haven't looked at all players thoroughly, nor can I really at this point.

Also I'm still fairly new here, is Rikana being an alt account mean that he's playing under a different name at the same time? Or is there a rule about using alts at the same time as regular accounts?

Rikana has a "main" account which is a username that most of us would probably stand a better chance of recognizing - and probably is at least a year older than the join date suggests. Hence the point of alts, you're trying to play under a less recognizable name so that you can play radically different. Which is probably why he's all lulzy and weird with his avatar and whatnot, he's trying to experiment with being a different person.

Unless perchance he is cheating, Rikana isn't another person in this game at the same time. And although he may have thought my next question was "tell me whose alt you are" (I might be wrong), my next question was "are you Town?" and he said "no". You might be onto something.

[yabbaguy]

I'm "lurking" because I have nothing to say.

We may as well have put a fucking

brick

in your playerslot, and although you have a keyboard, your contribution to the game equals that of the brick. In fact, the brick is probably winning right now.

Do you think that is acceptable? Do you recognize that while you always play minimalistically (as I now realize), that you have actually not said a

single thing

that is any more useful than said fucking brick?

[yabbaguy]

Hi from work. Be back later.

[yabbaguy]

This made me check Smalls.

Peregrine, *I'm* the reason you checked small. It better have been.

Anyway, my vote on small is good again, and I'm elated I don't have to swap just yet. We're L-4 though, so we're going to need some help. Those of you on solitary votes need to squawk really loudly why your person is the best lynch or consider a swap.

FoS Sky

for miscellaneous suspicion, among it the lack of a vote near deadline. What are you doing?

[yabbaguy]

Those of you on solitary votes MUST swap.

Willing to swap to mal seeing as I haven't viewed him too closely, but smallpeoples is failing at minimalism. It's zeroism. Town needs to make a standard pitifully clear. malp's comes from a wording squabble that I just don't get.

If you don't think lurkers are a problem, please note that we have generated 7 pages in 2 weeks. A lurker lynch is needed to regain sanity. Otherwise, Town has no activity standard and WILL fail.

[yabbaguy]

...okay, we're on page 8. See, we're improving, help me out here!

[yabbaguy]

But the 8pages don't have much content. All I basically saw from Malp was bad reactions to being wagoned upon. He isn't looking for scum, just complaining about who's on him. Its a scum trait. Scum get nervous on possible day 1 lynches, townies don't.

IS, you agree with me. Why aren't you trying to make a lynch that tells Town that this inactivity is unacceptable?

I've got to make another possible wagon. There are no reason to vote me that doesn't apply to Small as well. And is ridiculous the way he doesn't answer our questions. Deadline is there.

Vote: smallpeoples

Your content is what has led to your wagon, whereas the lack of content is what's led to smallpeople's wagon. I'd say that they are completely *different* reasons, rather than being the same as you claim.

Agreed with this though. That does put me at ease a bit more about complacency lynching malp - slightly.

I'm back! I seemed to have not declared my V/LA in any of my games in MafiaScum.

You've owed us a post since the beginning of the game. Excuse invalid.

[yabbaguy]

@mod:

y

abbaguy. Seriously, the uppercase Y looks disgusting. Also, since we're playing most votes at deadline = lynch, what happens with a tie? First to attain that quantity of votes?

[yabbaguy]

not everyone capitalizes their username, y'know. ._.

Seriously, I made it when I was 9 on nick.com and never changed it since. Not even inspired by the Flintstones, it just fell into my head.

Anywho... still malp, IS? Because I'm looking at this incident more and more and his willingness to stand up to Empking which set off all these alarms really doesn't look scummy now. I don't think malp was really right to do it, but I don't see the scum intent in that post. I'm thinking malp is just doing things wrong this game.

[yabbaguy]

This is actually really bad. Every single person off the wagons is in lurker-land.

Prod FightingShadow, SomeRandomGuy, and maybe even smallpeoples again if you please?

[yabbaguy]

VOTE: Malps Let's get this over with.

[yabbaguy]

As much as I want to stab smallpeoples with a stick right now, and that was a critical error to punish someone for saying the wrong thing over nothing, I think it's not exactly ingenuous to focus on him now. While he was the worst lurker, he was easily not the only lurker.

At work, more later.

[yabbaguy]

Vote: Emp

Unvote

Vote: Emp

Unvote

Vote: Emp

Unvote

[yabbaguy]

Vote: Internet Stranger

for illogical and reckless wagon push. I don't approve, JAM was not a lurker, he was inactive.

I also think IS is pointing out the lurking for Townpoints, but actually isn't and wasn't doing a hell of a lot to actively solve that problem. Just idly "stop doing it" "I'll wait" "Not my problem, waiting for the dust to settle"

Stuff along those lines.

[yabbaguy]

Two bits:

-JAMFTW's absence of an avatar is curiously the biggest eyesore to me right now. Can you remedy that?
-

@mod:

"yabba

G

uy" now? (All right, all right, fine. You don't have to.)

The game's still too slow - improving, but still too slow. Again, we need, absolutely need, to punish people who are not doing anything to actively contribute to the game. An Internet Stranger lynch has utility as well, I think he's bossing the Town around like I've seen COUNTLESS times in games, but this time not for anything useful. JAM, contrary to his assertion, is the

TOTAL POLAR EXTREME ÜBER OPPOSITE

of coasting.

JAM - let's discuss. I trust you since we're both trying to both be active and scream from a soapbox at a deaf and apathetic Town.

I don't really want smallpeoples around much like you, but I think we need to push elsewhere. I... I don't know about Rikana. It seems like your case only shows him saying a few things that don't really seem to be damning. Or maybe that response made him seem scummier?

[yabbaguy]

It's a smattering, JAM's 2 is the largest. Try actually reading the thread and seeing whose reasoning seems most compelling.

[yabbaguy]

I'm going to try a totally transparent suspect list. I was half-tempted to use Optimize colors from my Mish-Mash game, but I think everyone understands red to green more easily.

Ordering within each color chunk is irrelevant.

›

yabbaguy

- In case you don't know what the green end is.

›

PeregrineV

- Is posting a trifle too little, really needs to contribute more. But is also, like me, trying to scream at the Town and taking direct action against people who don't play the game in a Town manner. I'm focusing on activity, he's focusing on transparent reasons for votes. I'm going to ignore that opaque Empking vote for now.

›

JAMFTW

- Is getting pressured for reasons that are very baseless, honestly. It's a bunch of half-assery that is somehow adding up to a scum case on him and I just don't see it.

›

SomeRandomGuy

- I get the sense of him being genuine, but is playing too slow. I really would like to have him suspect or vote someone at this time.

›

Rikana

- Is starting to sound more and more Town, but needs to remain in the neutral zone until I hear more persuasive efforts to be Town and actively try to find scum in this game.

›

Swiftstrike

- Sounded Town and contributes well - but the remark about smallpeoples' hammer being scummy is totally out of place when he thought he was going to be hammering himself. It's a nitpick, so he stays in the green.

›

FightingShadow

- Not going out of orange zone until I hear more.

›

smallpeoples343

- When someone simply refuses to play the game as he has, I basically have to table him until everyone else in the orange flips.

›

Empking

- not doing enough. His last philosophical-sounding remark to me is no excuse from him not trying to genuinely find scum.

›

Internet Stranger

- Perhaps the worst contributor to the inactivity problem, pointing it out, yet doing nothing active to do anything with it. Still my current vote.

›

Sky

- Extremely shady, while part of this was possibly due to inactivity, is essentially taking WAY too much of a laid-back approach for me to feel comfortable having him in the game. While to his credit, he's stayed consistent to malp, I just don't think his style is Town - he's really just launching darts to the wall hoping they stick and lucky him, the malp wagon stuck.

[yabbaguy]

Why is this game filled with so much garbage? All this does is help the scum hide.

Where the fuck did everybody go?

I have finished re-reading the thread. Its still full of crap and garbage. Luckily, im still ok with a Malp lynch, so lets make it happen.

This is bullshit. Seven pages of posts and only about 1/2 a page of actual content. I'm going to lynch Malp for the fuck of it. If Malp is scum, I'm going after anyone not on the wagon. If he flips town, I'm going after everyone on the wagon.

So what's to going to be? Get your thumbs out of your ass and start voting.

But the 8pages don't have much content.

That chain of posts quoted above acknowledges that there is a serious activity and content problem, yet fails to do anything to solve the problem, other than just trying to shove the malp wagon along. That's sort of this false white-knighting that I believe you're accusing me of now. While I admit that I believe that "pot kettle black" inherently succumbs to the "tu quoques" fallacy, I contest I haven't been dishonest while your efforts are dissatisfactory. Show me otherwise.

Are you genuinely trying to rectify this solution, contrary to my claim? If no, then the vote is deserved. Am I not genuinely trying to rectify this situation, contrary to my claim? If no, then your suspicion on me is invalid.

[yabbaguy]

Addendum: why is my list bullshit?

[yabbaguy]

Fair. I also have to admit that "throwing darts at the wall" - my way of saying that someone keeps trying on suspicions until one finally catches on, THEN committing, is harder to tell when only one of these "darts" has been thrown.

My other problem though is that you've started D2 as well with fluff. It's been 1) "where is FS?" and 2) some post which I'm guessing is somehow meant to stealthily throw a giant dagger at PV, which I think won't even happen.

I mean, I just don't know if you're scumhunting. You're waking up now at least, but there is a serious issue of you basically contributing to this atmosphere where the malp wagon was basically along the lines of "well he said something weird" "eh, what the hell" and there we were at deadline basically going along with it. That's why I pegged you red on my Scum-Finder 9000- okay, whatever, it's a scumlist. At the moment, you're on pace to let Town do the exact same thing.

Can you name

one

person you suspect?

[yabbaguy]

I'm not sure what to make of JamFTW at the moment, Rikana is leaning town mostly down to gut and his general aggressiveness, he just seems to be genuine, IS i'm also unsure of, I noticed previously the 'this game is full of junk' style comments and was waiting for something from him that would drag it out of that stage which doesn't seem to have came, I'm not willing to vote on him just yet based solely on that but it is suspect in my mind.

There's far too much fencesitting here. You're not sure of this, you're not sure of that, maybe you should bleed onto the wagon, it sorta makes you suspicious.

FoS: SomeRandomGuy

because of the scum convenience involved. (Nobody says "scumvenience" anymore, do they?)

Also, FS, be careful. Tunneling is something Town does when they're thinking "come on, somehow this bastard's gotta be scum" and they keep pestering them over contrived details. If the IS-scum theory checks out, this isn't true, he knows whether or not he's pushing on Town or scum.

[yabbaguy]

Or perhaps after my V/LA i don't feel as caught up as I'd like to be and need a proper read through again and some more information to go on.

Nah. The problem's been going on longer than that.

Very happy with my vote now. That last post looks like scum catch up (its length though not being insightful). His vote also looks convenient.

Shadow is being opportunistic, its like a shark smelling blood in the water.

Out of order. You need to show how our IS-scum rationale is wrong first.

[yabbaguy]

Mod: Empking is voting FightingShadow, not the other way around. Emp's still on L-3, I believe.

Thanks, corrected

The most painful move I think I've ever made, but

Unvote

.

Internet Stranger a) was willing to engage and b) has

such

a terrible case on JAMFTW and me that goes all sorts of different directions and is desperately trying to connect dots with so little of the puzzle filled in, but it's looking much more like a tunnel vision case - I've been there and done that too. Town tend to want to "win" battles much more, scum not so much. I can't really put my finger on the reason, but that said, IS has shown he's willing to fight it out.

I've told you already how JAM is a poor choice to lynch. Empking... again, he's sort of in that orange zone, that's an acceptable lynch if it comes down to it, but I wonder if he's going to suddenly spring into action - it's also the smallpeoples dilemma for me. Sky sounds significantly more Town.

Vote: SomeRandomGuy

- I believe he's avoiding the game out of fear. You can just tell from his

really

cautious wording to the fact that he hasn't actually voted seriously - he RV'd Empking, then didn't actually want to vote malp. You can't even give him much credit for voicing much suspicion, I guess he was onto malp, but then sorta sat on his ass and didn't even vote to L-1. Obscuring this is the fact he genuinely went V/LA - but not on the 7th, he actually declared it on the 12th, and not here. Also, maybe there's scum on the malp wagon, but odds on there's one OFF as well.

@SRG:
1. Why did you lurk?
2. Who are your biggest suspicions in the game?

[yabbaguy]

Both quotes SRG.

What I'd say for you is to look at the other game i'm in (Newbie 1117) the inactive periods here will match up there, including the time i hadn't posted my V/LA.

I can't agree with that. I think it was between the 7th and the 10th that you had gone repeatedly for a game other than this one. Maybe it was whilst you were V/LA, but the fact is that when you went to mafiascum, you were more eager to go to another game over this one. Granted, this game was started in rather disinteresting fashion, but the fact is that you avoided this game. Out of fear. It's harder to say the right thing in a scum game whereas there are no wrong things to say in a Town game. Yet you proved yourself capable of coming to this game, and you didn't. There was a lot of support for malp - why ruin a perfectly good thing by making a reckless post from a state of vacation?

It's that and the caution in your voice. You're exercising so much caution in this game. Everything's going just fine, we're going all the wrong directions. You don't need to do a thing.

I had been a little suspious of FS, this is why i asked about his dropping of Empking as one of his scum reads, it seemed a little odd, he's explained it fairly well and so that has cleared it up mostly for me.

That was SUCH a nitpicky question. I mean, it's a question scum would ask really - trying to probe at some inconsistency that just really isn't all that scummy, yet you wish it were.

I don't think the way you're approaching scumhunting is actually someone trying to solve a puzzle.

[yabbaguy]

@Mod: Please prod smallpeoples again.

Done.

Replacement on standby just in case.

I'm deliberating reporting him if this doesn't improve, honestly. He knows he's gumming up the slot on purpose, and I'm sick of it. I don't want to play with him ever again if he refuses to do

anything

that contributes to the game other than a few dodgy votes.

[yabbaguy]

yummy WIFOM

Okay, okay. I'm here almost daily, reading. No one's bothered to ask me a question so far and other than that, there's not much to say in my opinion.

On your way out the door, let me just say that you have it all wrong, assuming good faith. Your aim is to be proactive and to find scum, or even if you are scum, to be proactive. If you give us nothing, we ask you nothing, and then we all get inwardly annoyed. If this isn't intuitive to you, and I don't mean this insultingly, go back and try another Newbie game. So long.

Why? There's nothing wrong with your vote there's something wrong with FS. Sheeping reasonable reasons doesn't make one town.

I'm quite sure this was basic scum opportunism you were accusing FightingShadow of - scum trying to hop on a popular Town wagon. Either that or FS is bussing. I believe you were thinking scum-on-Town just then, hence why I demanded you explain to me why this wasn't Town-on-scum instead.

@Sky: You being Town is a hunch by the way you're approaching this game. Am I wrong?

@PeregrineV: I had you pegged as Town, but your lurking is costing you points. Why are you posting in other games and not here?

I still don't believe SRG. Let me see if I can pinpoint anything particular in my next post - but it's more the absence of anything that explains it away.

[yabbaguy]

Translation- "I overlurked as scum but don't want screw over my buddies, so I'm leaving."

Try: "Geez, people are going to want me lynched and I'm afraid of that." This nullifies and speculatively Town-tilts my read on him, personally. I agree that a) he knows he really fucked up his slot b) his internal thought is that he might get lynched for it - but I don't see how that's scum indicative. He is a detriment to whatever faction he's affiliated with, ergo, it's null.

---

I mean, with SRG, it's what I thought, it's more the

absence

of anything Town in content. The V/LA. which I think is legitimately being thrown into question, is how he's explaining away all his mushiness.

---

I wonder if I can chart the game out. VCA

[yabbaguy]

...as the fucking submit button goes off on me. What the fucking fuck.

No, I don't know if VCA says much. We can't even analyze it until we have a scum flip.

[yabbaguy]

Shadow, a White Knight is those assholes that sit on their white horse and act like they are the the most confirmed townie of the bunch. They use arrogance and patronization to get their point across on all the lowlives because they believe that they are beyond reproach. They enjoy commanding others and getting the townies to follow them along like sheep; sheep who never suspect Sir White Knight of being scum. As if they commanded some extra respect from the rest. Those bastards always turn out to be scum and I make it a mission to ensure that they dont fuck the town over by endgame.

You're just jealous.

*gallops in on my trusty white horse, majestic music plays*

*through mask, in a gallant, manly voice*

IT IS I! I BRING TO YOU JUSTICE AND THREATS OF DEATH TO THOSE WHO LURK! LONG LIVE ACTIVE GAMES! DEATH TO MINIMALISM! WE SHALL OVERCOME!

So

*points sword at SRG*

...

...can you give a layman's summary as to why Sir Estranged One of the Internet is scum? To my understanding, you don't like this "blanket statement" of his and you find the others "trustworthy". Is that all?

[yabbaguy]

My favorite pasttime: calling this obv masculine person LoLa.

"It seems that I've gotten everyone to hate me, despite the fact that

some of them didn't care

. This is all biased against me anyways, so if you guys want me out, then good-bye."

Wait Peregrine - doesn't this suggest he's trying to say scum don't care, they just want him mislynched? For someone who's replacing out and is now detached from the result, that is a wicked Town thing to say.

I think you're reading this through blinders. Don't marry yourself to the possibility that he's scumslipped, I've had some abusive relationships with false scumslips in the past. If anything - I think that is uberTown.

[yabbaguy]

The biggest allegation against you is that the bulk of your posts are useless.

Empking - use your splash attack!

vote:Empking[/vote]

lol used the 2 different tags.. VOTE: empking

This is acceptable.

47 POSTS, 2 DAYS LATER

Aye tis me, was it the auron avatar that gave it away or my buggering up of the vote tags? I hope it's the former, the latter only points to me being identifyable through my idiocy which actually hurts my feelings a wee bit :p Oh and happy birthday dear boy, i'd be all cliche and give you the gift of a vote but i think it's already been done

Bandwagon hopping had happened at this point. Chooses not to participate. Not everyone did though.

It's quite a small group, i'm not sure whether being 2nd favourite is a compliment or not, though i guess so long as Orlando Jordan isn't number 1 i'm not too fussed , but aye chris stone indeed.

Don't know how you guys feel about RQS but i kind of like it, if only to get a feel for how people formulate answers and of course getting to know people here just a tad better.

1) How many games of Mafia have you played?
2) Do you prefer to play as scum or town?

I feel a bit lonely only knowing 2 other players here

1) I think i've played around 4 or 5 mostly being on another site only one (ongoing game) here.
2) I like playing town, working out power roles has never been as fun to me as scouting for the bad guys, though a game i recently played (and was scum) with 2 scum teams and a member of each scum team and 1 member of town being in an inner council was great too, i had the extremely dangerous to me town IC member to try and find... Shame that the same night i killed him the other mafia team thought they'd pop me off to help their faction and the IC

RQS is dumbassery after the game has already begun. But that's null too.

18 POSTS, 1 DAY LATER

smallpeople wrote:
2) I actually prefer the scum role cult, because how long you survive (cult leader) depends on so many variable because you actually have to find who is scum who will lead to life or death.


Scum hunting to avoid recruiting scum sounds like fun tbh, I've not tried it but it does sound like a fun role

1) What is your favorite role?


I mentioned in the answer to my own question the time that i played as scum with and Inner council, i found this role to be really fun, i was the Godfather of the scum. Essentially I had to try to gain as much info from my scum buddy as possible, we were told an IC existed as it was an open game or semi open, i forget. My aims were to obviously do the usual scum thing whilst trying to find the town IC member - if i hit the oppisite sides scum IC it would have been bad the info the town ic would give out would suck for my team. This was a really great role because i felt like i was in a fairly unique situation the other IC scum was the other teams godfather (which i had some suspicion of thanks to my scum buddy) and so i was the only one who could safely make a night kill on the town ic.
Other than that, I tend to like the VT role, on the site i play i always end up eating a night kill and so it's about the best role i can be there to be pro-town I've not yet had a third party role, which i believe i'd also love to play.

So he's still wallowing in RQS but not seemingly retrieving any useful information.

I asked the random questions a while ago, i wouldn't say they've killed the game though - the only thing that was truly going on has still been going on along side them

I answered the question as the guy who posted the questions, if you'd like to disregard my answer and wait for swift to give you the exact same one be my guest.

well, in the first post you feel that your vote means 'something' why is it before that you said what's going on is 'not much'.

I actaully agree that asking people to remove their votes is a

wee bit scummy

, but it's not necessarily a scum tell but the fact that you made that post and then made the case that it's 'not much' later seems a wee bit scummy too. You explained that your vote isn't JUST rvs motivated yet down play the case later... what's going through your mind? it seems

a little hipocritical

but hey, i'm not 100% sober...

i could be reading it wrong

.

Drunk or not, it's cautious operating. I thought alcohol was supposed to relax people a bit more? Why so inhibited?

AFTER JULY 4 WEEKEND

Well the weekend is done with so we really ought to get things moving again. I'm not really sure what there is to latch on to at the moment. Rikana's response to Bristep is something that will be interesting to see but how much substance there is in the whole argument i'm unsure, still though some of the reactions seem a wee bit odd. One thing I don't usually like however is people asking for votes to be removed, especially so early in the game where the chance of being hammered is low to say the least, over defensiveness never does anything to help me trust somebody.

"interesting" "not really sure". Weasel words. This is not characteristic of you, I know it.

20 POSTS, 3 DAYS LATER

don't like Malp's reason of asking for the vote to removed, simply because that reason was not followed up and jumping to say 'well i was reaction fishing' seems a little defensive and it completely underminds the reason. If you make scum aware of what you're doing, they're likely going to avoid it like the plague or use it in a way to look good.

Also, at this point in time i find Bristeps posts to be aggressive, i've seen him play like this as town and thus he's leaning town to me, so I don't think the wagon (at least in the beginning) is / was scum motivated - which in general makes me feel happier with it.

I'm not willing to take this to L-1 just yet, I don't want the possibility of a self hammer since the thread has been quite quiet and we don't have much more going on:

FoS malp

It's just too long. Posts were being in plentiful quantities elsewhere, but you're avoiding this game. You're EXTREMELY hesitant to actually do crap with your suspicions, only then did you take arguably still indecisive action against malp.

START OF D2, JULY 15

Right, extremely sorry for my inactivity toward the end of the last day, it seems i neglected to pay my internet bill and could only leech on my partners macbook at an unsecure connection. I'm going to be reading the game through properly tonight and will post what i feel at that point.

Okay, yes, genuinely need the reread. But he was around up until the 10th, and I was entering the game at this point and screaming "smallpeoples [LoLa], you're a fucking brick".

*crickets*

Nothing.

No other votes were down when he actually went V/LA, to his credit. But there were shenanigans and he should've come over here at least once. He could've.

@JAM

In all fairness to rikana what would the point of defending the person who is to be lynched by calling another player scum who he then proceeds to night kill and have both flip town be?

I'd find that much more suspect if Bristep hadn't have died in the night and was being set up for a day 2 lynch. I actually find because of that scenario that my read on Rikana is leaning town.

Why is it that you find it to be so suspect?

The one thing about Rikana's posts there is that they're quite conclusive, leave no room for backing out of the opinions easily.

TOO. SLOW. TOO. SLOW.

2 DAYS, 24 POSTS LATER

Yeah FS, i was aware it was quite WIFOM something i try to avoid for the most part but i just didn't see how that particular situation painted Rikana badly and just wanted to mention it as the flips were seemingly being pushed against him which seemed to lack logic.

I'm not sure what to make of JamFTW at the moment, Rikana is leaning town mostly down to gut and his general aggressiveness, he just seems to be genuine, IS i'm also unsure of, I noticed previously the 'this game is full of junk' style comments and was waiting for something from him that would drag it out of that stage which doesn't seem to have came, I'm not willing to vote on him just yet based solely on that but it is suspect in my mind.

FS, what do you now think of Emp? It seemed day 1 you had a bit of a hardon for him and he's not been mentioned in this most recent post. Just wondering what your thought s on him are now.

unsure unsure sorta suspect unsure. I've been over this.

@me

Or perhaps after my V/LA i don't feel as caught up as I'd like to be and need a proper read through again and some more information to go on. I'm still not caught up as much as i'd like and would like the chance to go through some ISO's and fully develop reads before showing a commitment to something just because others seem in some cases fairly certain. I'd also like to hear more from FS because he hasn't had a lot of posts for me to read back on and Emp seemed to be his previous scum read who he has now not mentioned, trying to work out if his motives for the case against IS that he presented are clear would be quite a big thing with my reads.

Nah.

What I'd say for you is to look at the other game i'm in (Newbie 1117) the inactive periods here will match up there, including the time i hadn't posted my V/LA. I had hoped my internet would be up much quicker than it was, the reason my posts slowed up before finally the v/la is because i was leeching internet across the road, the connection there got quite bad to the point of being unable to connect most of the time and my only real access to the net from then was walking to another street with my partners macbook which i did once or twice to prod dodge / say i'll be back soon. This was the reason i didn't place a vote onto Malp I had put an FoS in place i didn't want to take it to L-1 real early and by the time i got back to this game again the day had ended.

The inactivity has left me sort of treading water, both in my reads and post content - something which will shorlty be rectified.

As for my suspicions: I had been a little suspious of FS, this is why i asked about his dropping of Empking as one of his scum reads, it seemed a little odd, he's explained it fairly well and so that has cleared it up mostly for me. IS seems to be the most likely candidate to me: I find myself trusting 2 of the people on the wagon, I find that his commenting on lack of content yet adding little is as detrimental to town as lurkers yet also putting himself out there in good light, if FS seems oppertunistic to him, that seems oppertunistic to me.

VOTE: Internet Stranger

So now the IS vote comes down at long last - took him 4 days. The inactive periods did NOT match though, you had the ability to come to this game and you didn't. You just didn't want to play this game for some reason.

It's been SUCH a problem throughout the whole game. You just aren't scumhunting actively, you're taking such a laid back approach to the game and watching ourselves fuck up. You should get lynched just for letting us fuck up anyway due to your wishy-washiness and the times when your lack of activity had no excuse.

[yabbaguy]

I might do myself a favor by at least mentioning that all of the above was SomeRandomGuy.

[yabbaguy]

There's still very little for me to answer to in that post Yabba.

Inactivity cases are hard to explain away. It's a case of you acting extraordinarily anti-Town, and I think it's alignment-based, not speed-of-game based, contrary to your assertation.

Though I disagree with him, Locke gives me a town vibe.

You can't even do lazy wagonning properly - you have a solitary vote yet you're clinging to it. What the fuck are you doing?

[yabbaguy]

I'm not convinced by the SRG case (mainly in reference to Yabba's case). I don't see much to differentiate between antitown and scummy in regard to SRG's play. How exactly does his play indicate scum over antitown?

There's a rift in what he's capable of doing and what he is doing in this game - unlike smallpeoples, it's actually moreso that this not being his typical playstyle. If it were, then yes, then it's just an anti-Town playstyle. SRG asserts his lurking was because he was simply disinterested and the game wasn't going much of anywhere. I claim he was deliberately allowing this game to go to the gutter.

Unvote, Vote: PeregrineV

So it's all because of this?

You're calling the player scum, not the slot. This is horrendous.

This is why you're scum.

Apparently this is a blindingly obvious scumtell, but I don't get it. 'splainy? You need to convince us

very

strongly to swap, because we're T-6 from deadline and you're on a solitary vote. I despise solitary votes late in the Day unless someone's willing to be provocative and boisterous about why their vote is the numero uno choice.

[yabbaguy]

JAM, what's being referenced is a warning that looks like this (if I recall it correctly)

At least one user has made a reply to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this.

If someone posts in the interim, even if the Submit button is hit, the post does not go through and instead that warning is shown along with the "interfering" post.

[yabbaguy]

IS, what's Rikana's alignment do you reckon? I'm banking on noobTown.

[yabbaguy]

From iPhone,

I don't agree. I think that FoS suggests that he's saying the slot is scummy, which is right. That FoS carries down through any player who occupies that scummy slot.

Also, noob is not an alignment, so I'm being ridiculous. Sorry.

[yabbaguy]

That's actually L-1 since

LoLa's vote on SRG was overlooked.

[yabbaguy]

Oh shit, that's right - Peregrine somehow found scumminess in Rikana. X_X

[yabbaguy]

T-4 days.

Peregrine, hackjob posts such as the one you've just done have

absolutely zero

value when it comes to persuading us to follow your wagon. I think Rikana's Town and your post reeks of tunnelvisioning.

[yabbaguy]

I agree, I just wish he'd give us a more transparent means of showing that Rikana's scum if he is at all. You know just as well as me that that's a newbish post that does no good for anyone.

but there isnt a clear consensus on whos the lynchbait today yet.

That's interesting you mention it - WHY isn't there more urgency to make a competing wagon? Town and scum alike - nobody's moving. That means scum are playing pretty hands-off right now - is the game going the right way without their intervention?! The trajectory's pretty well towards SRG, I'm thinking, and I really hope they don't like that.

This thought is suddenly crawling into my head and I wish it would get out.

[yabbaguy]

I DON'T LIKE IT HERE. THIS IS NOT FUNNY.

[yabbaguy]

We've had hundreds of three man wagons today. Though if you worry translates in voting FS I'm down with that.

Nah. I'm good now.

[yabbaguy]

JAM, could you not be arsed to hear SRG's claim first?

[yabbaguy]

SRG, Snake's nowhere to be found. Lynched players should really be trying to player-by-player the game as quickly as possible. Who else other than JAM?

[yabbaguy]

So why did you go for IS so much, SRG? You're only sure of JAM, really?

[yabbaguy]

I knew this the whole time. I can't inhibit it further with the time press we have.

SomeRandomGuy (L-1): [yabbaguy][Internet Stranger][Locke Lamora][Empking][JAMFTW]

[???]

Unvote

- I mean, now SRG was up at

1 AM

and is plunging out analyses. That's a radical contrast. I really hope that his reaction genuinely was on the presumption that he was done.

Vote: JAMFTW

for a terrible attempt to crash another Town player. That is a MASSIVE pro-scum action if it's 3 v 8, and the reaction about an NK that I'm highly confident was never headed his way is

really

weird. It could be a genuine error and still could be a scum's vote - it's happened before, I've seen it already.

Massprod? (as soon as you're not sleepy from the sleepy stuff?)

[yabbaguy]

Firstly - drop Peregrine. This is a horrific losing battle between you two - and it doesn't seem like scum on Town or the other way around the way that you both are just having to dive down to the sentence and the letter to prove each other wrong - and it comes as a gigantic opaque smokescreen of nothingness that we can't see past, again, I've seen it done, I've done it myself, and I have NEVER seen it be a scum-town battle. If it's scum-scum, good on you.

IS is screaming for JAM's lynch. If you think it's bussing, you go for JAM first. Always. And if you don't think that reaction and that hammer from JAM was scummy, I am eager to hear it.

Rikana - did you know that was a false lynch? In fact @all who were posting after the "hammer" - did you know?

[yabbaguy]

Well, you're white knighting me from SRG. I'm not calling you scum 'cause it's simply not a scumtell.

The opinions of one player don't help scum anyway, but secondly, I asked SRG to player-by-player to see if his head was actually in it. From what I glean:

a) he really thought he was hanged

and

b) he really, really, really is trying to scumhunt, not screw us up. HAD he either ignored or just given something wishy-washy, that player-by-player list might've been an indicator to his buddies.

Town strategy. And I don't see how you're calling me a white knight when you

swoop in to stop SRG from my supposedly evil clutches

. If I have my definition straight, does that make it a scumtell for me to be doing this? Is it a crime to be wrong several times?

[yabbaguy]

RandomGuy sucked enough to be lynchbait, why should his opinion matter at any point?

Why shouldn't it?

Also - you haven't mentioned JAM now once ever since this cascade from the falsehammer. Now I am yelling at the top of my lungs that he is committed something so heinously scummy and you've now omitted all mention of him and what he just did and gone straight for me.

What changed?

[yabbaguy]

Actually, I'm wrong you mention him once - as a possible scumbuddy of mine? Where the hell does that come from amidst this mess?

[yabbaguy]

If JAM shows scum - someone, not everyone, but someone who is trying to JAM up the works is scum. I really hope this goes through and that the flip shows scum, because we could be on the cusp of drilling someone who is trying to directly commit sabotage.

That was a terrible hammer and he knows it. You CANNOT let this slide any further - and I don't care how bossy you think I am because I know I'm right here. You CANNOT let this WIFOM through any more. Even if he shuffled the deadlines, he didnt let SRG claim. Although now, SRG just got a massive break by being able to show how Town he is.

As for the scum advantage gained - massive. If that had happened, then even on a subsequent lynch of JAM, scum would be on 5 v 2 - again presuming we are 8 v 3 now. Have a look at my yGDB in my sig and Ctrl+F Zinive, a scumbuddy of mine in a Newbie where he got TWO chances to quickhammer and it paid off massively even though he got dispensed with later.

I think, presuming my new theory checks out, if JAM hadn't bollocksed that up, that would've been brilliant.

[yabbaguy]

^Is that a genuine action?

[yabbaguy]

I mean Peregrine, you're doing only half the battle - and that's losing the war. You're making it no secret that you think there's Rikana scum, but the problem is that none of

us

understand. a) I think Rikana's meta is blatantly obvTown, and you're going to see this more and more with people who decide to be reckless when they post. b) your case has dwindled down to starting scrappy fights and trying to piece his words into scummy-sounding bits.

And I appreciate your attempt to paraphrase your post-by-post analysis, but what I got out of it is that you're upset he didn't see your post. I don't think he ignored it. You're just being difficult with each other.

So again, at least Rikana is deliberately rejecting the notion, but you haven't squawked once about ANY of the events that have happened. JAM unknowingly falsehammers in what I contest is in scummy fashion, Rikana's yelling, IS is yelling, I'm probing SRG and then going haha, it was L-1, what do you make of all that? Any of that? That was such a game shaking event and your focus on Rikana is blotting out your ability to give a flying fuck about any of the real shenanigans.

It's an abysmal lack of focus. What are you doing? What are you trying to win?

[yabbaguy]

A scummy ass white knight will use the goodwill of a town flip to go after the dead man's suspects knowing its a good way to railroad another mislynch.

IS, surely you of all people haven't been deprived the chance to see a fakehammer gambit in action. I mean, this is a classic, Town doesn't actually get lynched, then I reaction-fish, NOT really suspect-fishing - that would be obvious to me with enough reading. Reaction-fish tells whether or not they're a bummed Town or a "you got me" scum.

How do you manage to not have a fucking clue what I've done there?

[yabbaguy]

No response to my query then, knave?

[yabbaguy]

From the way JAM is explaining it, he clearly never knew such a role existed before the game began - but I'm also going to point out that this could've been fed to him in a scum QT. Mafia RB has the blocking aspect and Mafia inherently controls the killing aspect, also, so jailkeep claims have that scum convenience about them.

N1 action, JAM?

[yabbaguy]

Super extremely relevant?

[yabbaguy]

Who's scum, JAM? You?

[yabbaguy]

I think that's a scum error - that simplified the game for me.

So now...

›

yabbaguy - hello!

›

Internet Stranger - As much as I went to fencesit, I just know that he's Town. Why would he start, arguably, the first major squabble of the game when nothing was going on if he was scum? Also, inkling that he's telling the truth and that he wouldn't have let Empking be the kill.

›

SomeRandomGuy - Why isn't he dead? But I'd like to believe that he genuinely thought he was lynched, that was super convincing that he just stayed online well into midnight for him and blathered on.

›

PeregrineV - obviously Town-tunneling. Classic symptoms.

›

FightingShadow

- enter the WIFOM - this was Emp's favorite person to wagon on. But I think when he makes attacks on other players, it's really more to just attack and point out what they're doing wrong, but I don't see him really hunting.

›

Rikana - obviously Town-tunneling. Classic symptoms.

›

Swiftstrike

- Feels off somehow. Maybe it's just that his scumhunting aggression is sub-par.

›

Locke Lamora

- gigantic question mark.

›

Sky

- gigantic question mark.

No vote yet.

[yabbaguy]

›

Empking

- gigantic question mark.

Why do you want to know?

[yabbaguy]

The activity is awful again!

@Mod

: Massprod everyone who hasn't posted yet and I request a massprod at the start of each subsequent Day.

[yabbaguy]

Remember that my previous list had shades of red - but here I'm showing uncertainty. If you show scum, on the other hand, you've just indicated a big impatience for me to just get on with advocating for the lynch of all four of those people.

Mind you, that orange block includes yourself, but if I'm right and you show scum, it's a massive indicator that I've just tightened my dragnet too much. (i.e. I cleared too many - a black name should really go orange)

There is some information to be gleaned from this lynch unless Swift can adequately explain why he was in such a hurry to press me on that issue.

Vote: Swiftstrike

I do, however, wish to

FoS: Sky

. Even if LoLa is scum-bussing here with that, he makes some pretty darn good points - my favorites being the "mislynch" potential slip and the flagging of Sky's constant seesaw on JAM.

However, I don't think LoLa had a stance on JAM at all though - so I don't know what to make of that. I guess implicit indifference is less scummy? Maybe? /:|

[yabbaguy]

Why no vote yet yabbaguy

? If you have it narrowed down to an group of 4 players to hold the scum in then

why not vote now

. Let's say you voted for me and got the mislynch then if scum are certain in the rest of the group of 4 then you still can just lynch off the rest of the players in the remaining days, (under the assumption it is 3 scum game). So I can't understand that if your town with a good certainty as to where the scum is

what is the hesitation

?

But that is my point,

your net seems extremely to tight

and strangely only included lower posters if we are to believe scum come from the orange group you highlighted, then it means that town have been driving wagons that have lead to the lynch of town. Now that is possible but if you look at the people who got lynched and killed it seems weird that most of them have been lower posters too. (with the exception of bristep). This just seems not right so I wanted to see why you where

narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push

.

You've now completely changed the intent of that question. You asked me in that last post that I had four names in the orange that could've all been lynched, and had I contained the scumteam, it would've been all over. You were not at any point asking me whether I was tightening my dragnet too much. You asked me in the first post "you're confident enough - why not have a go?" and in the second "you're too confident - doesn't that seem unlikely?"

You are lying to me right now.

You are lying very poorly to me right now, and you've just outed yourself as obvious scum.

[yabbaguy]

^This is a super-super scummy lie that I've just outlined. Please read those posts carefully, and if you can tell that there's a blindingly obvious difference between "why are you holding back" and "don't you think you have it wrong", you really should be voting him now.

[yabbaguy]

And to selfishly triple post...

narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push.

This belongs in the already-scummy first post, even. Now I know why that phrase gives me a headache, he reversed back as he went.

[yabbaguy]

@yabba I did not change the intent of the question, I revealed exactly what I was looking to get an answer from you from that question.

You revealed a lie! There was absolutely NOTHING in that post that suggested that was the intent - you clearly wanted me to be more AGGRESSIVE with my list, not RECONSIDERING it!

You get no reply to any of your blathering that I'm scum until this gets cleared up. You told a scummy lie, and you got caught.

[yabbaguy]

When you ask me "why no vote" and "why the hesitation", how does that lead to its polar opposite of "good thing you're hesitating - I think your list is wrong?"

[yabbaguy]

Why Swiftstrike?

1. Swiftstrike quickly asks me "
   if you think you're right
   about those 4, then you can lynch them all,
   why not vote
   ?" This is scummy because it suggests impatience, wanting me to just vote all those people in the orange.
   
2. When probed, Swiftstrike replies that the post was meant to convey "I see Town amongst the orange,
   I don't think that list is right [a vote would be wrong]
   " - a direct contradiction to the previous which said, "come on, if you think you're right, vote!" Why would he backtrack?
   
3. Ergo, a scummy post and a scummy reversal.

[yabbaguy]

I feel my best route at this point to persuade you to go my way is to be as simple as possible. That's why I'm not engaging in Swift's labyrinth of logic, otherwise this will become a whirlwind of words that will drown a perfectly good standalone tell. Unless someone else votes me and agrees with him, I am inclined to believe that the lie I've flagged on him is far more concrete and obvious.

That's why I keep instructing Town to just look at the damn bolded words.

[yabbaguy]

I'm getting excited, sorry. I've never had so confident a tell in my life.

@1 - no. Think of scum motives for a second - if Swift notices I've got a scum who I've stupidly cleared, then if I were to just say "what the hell, let's just blast that chunk of orange and be done with it", it's a Mafia win. He gave me a nudge in the wrong direction, I claim, to go through with that losing strategy.

[yabbaguy]

I don't know who I'd back up with. Everything's conditional on this flip.

[yabbaguy]

Let's establish priorities here.

What I have here is an absolute 100% scumtell right here. Strike said something that I thought was scummy, and by backtracking now and saying completely the opposite, it has affirmed this. There is still no valid explanation out there from you that this was not done and why this isn't a 100% massive super numero uno scumtell. So yeah, I'm saying this multiple times because it is the truth. You can paint it as a lie all you'd like, but your first two posts of this Day were a scummy remark followed by a backtrack from said scummy statement. This still has no explanation.

None of what you say has Town intent and deserves an answer until you can refute this away. And I will be up the wall in fury and rage if Town overlooks my pleading and screaming and winds up passing over a super-numero-uno scumtell.

Your case points out a niggling inconsistency in my thought pattern which isn't even scummy, and isn't even true - I simply threw the list together as a mass of uncertainty really, I put Town names in there because they were based on Towntells I had seen before or what makes sense. Saying IS is Town is HARD after all the malarkey he's done this game, so it's more me trying to convince myself.

My super-primo-scumtells/slips supercede your blathering and niggling inconsistency flagging. I do hope Town has it the right way around.

[yabbaguy]

I'm going to look at this Swift yabba debate going on tomorrow, it's too much too wrap my head around right now.

No, it's not. I have the most obvious scumslip in the world as clearly demonstrated at the top of the page. Swift only wishes it was a confusing logic debate.

[yabbaguy]

You typed Swift's very contradiction that is scummy and you're calling me scummier. This demands an explanation.

And since this has become an issue, I think the consensus among myself and the Town is that I've been too BOLD, not too passive. What am I, a white knight who's valiantly leading the Town to all the wrong places, or am I too passive? I think I may have put the malp wagon into the murky "complacency lynch" territory, but JAM I was adamant wasn't scum until the dodgy hammer vote came down. I have been so transparent about everything this game, calling me passive and sitting back and watching mislynches happen is asinine.

So that's why I had orange-names-only (which I admit was obscure) and no vote.

I have stated my super-numero-uno case several times IS, and there still fails to come an explanation as to why this my case is false. If none comes, then the only proper thing to do is to vote Swift. I demand either an explanation as to how you can dismiss my super-numero-uno case or I demand a vote on Swift.

[yabbaguy]

Even if Swift's intent was to call me scum from the word go, same issue: am I too passive, or am I too sure? He said both in the span of two posts, and the first was scummy because he wanted me to vote the block and lose the game consequently. That's what makes the backtrack scummy.

[yabbaguy]

Why no vote yet yabbaguy

? If you have it narrowed down to an group of 4 players to hold the scum in then

why not vote now

. Let's say you voted for me and got the mislynch then if scum are certain in the rest of the group of 4 then you still can just lynch off the rest of the players in the remaining days, (under the assumption it is 3 scum game). So I can't understand that if your town with a good certainty as to where the scum is

what is the hesitation

?

But that is my point,

your net seems extremely to tight

and strangely only included lower posters if we are to believe scum come from the orange group you highlighted, then it means that town have been driving wagons that have lead to the lynch of town. Now that is possible but if you look at the people who got lynched and killed it seems weird that most of them have been lower posters too. (with the exception of bristep). This just seems not right so I wanted to see why you where

narrowing down a list so far but holding back on the push

.

You've now completely changed the intent of that question. You asked me in that last post that I had four names in the orange that could've all been lynched, and had I contained the scumteam, it would've been all over. You were not at any point asking me whether I was tightening my dragnet too much. You asked me in the first post "you're confident enough - why not have a go?" and in the second "you're too confident - doesn't that seem unlikely?"

You are lying to me right now.

You are lying very poorly to me right now, and you've just outed yourself as obvious scum.

The first post states I should really be voting if I were Town. The second post states I really ought to reconsider who I'm about to vote.

How can the first post be doing what the second post claims it's doing?

[yabbaguy]

I made a list with uncertainty. I made an error in not saying that the orange corresponded to the "I'm not sure - but they're probably scum" side of it. As to the "charge" of me saying that I was declaring obvTown, why should I rush it? I lost a Newbie game because I said "I've called one SUPER-DUPER-OBVIOUS Town, I'll just blast the other two and the other scum will drop". Oops, the towniest one was the scum. Realizing that I'm scumhunting worse than a random monkey all over again, I won't scream as loudly as I did last Day. (It's the newbie game with Paws and foilist, I forget which #, check the yGDB if you'd like - but I can link the incident when I get home) That's why even though I say "oh yeah, of course he's Town, I still don't follow it". This is why I decided not to vote. And besides that, a vote also is a game mechanic that declares interest in ending the Day, and I didn't want the Day to end seeing as I really wasn't sure. It's actually mental uncertainty, it's like "I just know he's Town, I just have that feeling". Peregrine and Rikana I still believe to be obvTown, IS and SRG are the ones I expressed doubts about.

Internet Stranger - As much as I went to fencesit, I just know that he's Town. Why would he start, arguably, the first major squabble of the game when nothing was going on if he was scum? Also, inkling that he's telling the truth and that he wouldn't have let Empking be the kill.

I mean, this is me wanting to be unsure, and then I decide to commit to a stance just thinking that's true. But I want to see what others think. There is NO CRIME for wanting to seek a second opinion. If anything, I'm being charged for wanting to be the leading opinion.

Secondly is that I did this thinking that it would make myself LESS intrusive to the game. I mean, this was me having screamed at the top of my lungs for a JAM lynch and having it fail. Therefore, what I wanted to do was

non-intrusively

state what I felt and then start the debate from there. Where was I taking the lead? I was taking a more passive role, this ISN'T me ringleading until Swift lies to my face, so to speak. What is so wrong with a Day where everyone just talks before they vote, presuming everyone actually gets involved (nope)? I take firm stances, but I expect Town to disagree with me.

Then Swift lies and I immediately discard the strategy of being passive. Yup.

Again, am I too aggressive or am I too passive? On one hand, you're saying I'm squawking too much and saying "hey guys, let's mislynch this guy wheeeeee" or am I being too passive and should be taking more decisive action with my vote?

What makes this list say "YOU GUYS SHOULD DO THIS TOO"? It's not my fault that you guys are abysmal at being more outright with your opinions. There is NOTHING wrong with just stating a player-by-player and allowing the dialogue to go towards "what do you think?" more than "DO THIS DO THIS". I did not do any direct action, hence it's "what do you think?". I was being open, I was trying to contribute to a Town game. What is the proper Town thing to do in this stance,

was I supposed to vote? Then I'm accused of ringleading the Town and it becomes "nice try yabb, trying to mislynch Townies again?" What is the proper Town play there?

This is an impossible case. The proper Town play was to sit back, state a few stances, and see where the conversation went. I adamantly assert that it is Town motivated. What is scummy? What would yabb-Town have done differently?

[yabbaguy]

Unvote

since everyone's telling me to try again.

But Swift, I still don't have the answer as to what the first post is intended to convey though. Okay, you asked why I'm not voting. That

conveys

then the opinion that you wanted me to vote, yes?

[yabbaguy]

"uncertainty lie/you're contradicting yourself" - I explained that already. Peregrine and Rikana are super-Town, IS and SRG are of lesser certainty (yes, with IS I was trying to assure myself there), then I have my renowned orange block.
"I see Town in that block of orange" - k.
"your list only includes lower posters" - It's a game with an activity crisis involved. But even there, you weren't even that inactive, more unsubstantive until you suddenly lit up and exploded. SRG is still being a useless blob, but at least I thought he was Towntelling by trying to give analyses upon his "death". That's that.

[yabbaguy]

@Rikana:

A) please acknowledge "being wrong" is Town and "deliberately misguiding" is scummy. I thought my logic made perfect sense, so I claim I'm wrong. I may not even be wrong about Swift-scum for other reasons, but I'm reconsidering after everyone's saying "no yabb, you blew it" and Swift's sudden surge of confidence as he went on a raging caps crash course to prove me a liar.
B) have you read the thread yet? If not, esp. read 551, and especially especially the bit where I assert that I'm being stretched in multiple directions - one time I should really back my stance with a vote, the next that I'm saying "HEY TOWN, CHECK OUT THIS COOL (mis)LYNCH!"

[yabbaguy]

So barring any sudden dramatics...

> SRG
> Peregrine
> Shadow
> Rikana
> Swift
> LoLa

...is my concrete suspect list. Now it's bracket two Town and sack the rest.

That is, if I've understood you correctly, Sky? N1 you got "No Result" and N2 you got something like "No Gun"?

Ninjaposts: Oh come on. Are you lot reading what I'm saying?

[yabbaguy]

Every Mafioso has a gun I'd imagine, I've never heard of a Gunless Mafia or whatever you'd call it, and it doesn't sound Normal.

Would a jailkeeper possess a gun?

[yabbaguy]

@Yabba- please point me in the direction of three of Rikana's town vibe posts

It's not really so much that what he's made certain posts that make him Town so much as his overall approach and attitude to the game. I mean, Rikana's been one of the more extroverted personalities in this game - anyone who takes the stance of "fuck you, you're ruining this game" is usually genuinely mad about things not going that way.

In a game where things aren't going the right way (you can use IS' and, for whatever it's worth, my stated frustration as a barometer for this), people who are mimicking the mood of the game accurately like Rikana show Town to me.

I think he just had a brain fart when it came to the claim.

---

That said, I'm feeling rather optimistic to be honest. We just got two more Town cleared in concrete fashion. The trouble is I'm overclearing here. Rikana/Peregrine got in a tunnel war, SRG acted all "damn, dead Townie", Swift was hell-bent on proving me a liar, and smallpeoples' quitting abruptly looked Town.

Help anyone? Which of those isn't actually a Towntell?

I'll just go for the one that isn't muddied up in this way.

Vote: FightingShadow

While he's inactive, why isn't he stating his activity in this game? I seriously want to know what's up with people who make it a point of telling one game they're busy and not the other. smallpeoples, likewise. Is it telling one way or the other?

Other qualms are his minimalism and his "oh hey, hammer"

*walk away*

reaction to the JAM hammer.

Announcer: This is yabb's sole opinion. You follow this vote at your own risk, and while yabb acknowledges responsibility in the event, you are not in any way obligated or expected to follow this opinion. Accusing yabb over trying to ringlead the Town, especially considering how much of a floundering idiot he's been, is strictly prohibited.

[yabbaguy]

The case you make though for ruling people out doesn't rule yourself out either, you're in the same situation as FS in terms of being 'on that isn't muddied up in this way'. Should people be considering you in that way?

Are you accusing me or no? I don't get why you're asking me this question.

[yabbaguy]

Locke, are we talking about the same thing? I'm talking about the L-1 oopsie-daisy incident where SomeRandomGuy thought he was lynched.

[yabbaguy]

SRG, don't you see how Yabba is manipulating you?

[citations needed]

[yabbaguy]

Snake, are you searching for an FS replacement?

[yabbaguy]

To be honest, I'm failing to see how FightingShadow is scum. I think I'm going on severely speculative scumtells (such as him posting V/LA in another game and not here) that don't mean a single thing here, so with that I'd like to

Unvote

at this time.

and

Vote: Locke Lamora

* Ever since his Sky case collapsed due to the claim, LoLa has done not a whole lot of productive stuff (and while it's null moreso - that vote is pointless and stupid). He was simply inactive in the gap between the 3rd and the 6th, mind you, but when he came back, he's sort of flung a lazy suspicion onto SRG. I'm not sure what this attempts to accomplish.
* I'm looking back at what smallpeoples said when he opted out, and I'm realizing where I may have called it uberTown by accident. He mentions "despite the fact that some didn't care" more in the sense of the fact that some players generally were of the opinion that he wasn't doing much wrong. Take for example Bristep, who I believe said "that's not really a fo sho scumtell, is it?" I think here he references moreso the fact that players were saying "lurking's more anti-Town than scummy". That's why I'm reversing back on this stupid Towntell I had, and it's interesting how LoLa veered out of his way to persuade me another one was wrong.
* With that out of the way, I think the fact that smallpeoples said ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of any significance is atypical for even his minimalistic style and I think that difference is telling. smallpeoples seems to be a player in good faith, but I think he played radically different in this game, and while there's the potential confounding variable that the game's activity was lower than average, I think the fact that his contribution style was different (i.e. the total absence of it) was just that.
* The scumhunting approach of Locke, with the Sky case anyway, essentially zooms in on one post and tries to nitpick at it. I think he's nitpicking much more at anti-Town play over scummy play, and firing at someone solely over one post doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Essentially, it's plus points for starting a bold, new innovative wagon, but minus points for the approach as it didn't really encapsulate scumminess so much as nitpicky anti-Town play. (fencesitting mostly)

What I find peculiar is the fact that smalls wasn't even brought up in the front game. Usually scum love to point out the fact that this sort of lurking is scummy when it's a Town player doing it. Here, it passed completely (almost completely?) without mention until I entered.

[yabbaguy]

IS has likely degenerated to gut feeling in regards to my scumminess, I should point out. At this point, all I can do is hope everyone at least acknowledges that, unless I'm missing something (tell me please?), there are no scummy points on me that I haven't explained away. (Sorry for the obnoxious, although slightly necessary, nesting and interfering parenthetical statements)

Locke's statement wasn't satisfactory to me, personally. Locke, you were here on the 3rd and 6th - consistent with when you've logged on, yes. But you had both of those days to actually do something useful, you even admitted that there may have been reasonable possibility that Sky's claim was valid. Why are you still clinging to the vote? The perception I have is that you're sitting on your ass and not scumhunting right now - scummy esp. in the late Day when the wagon's not on you. (note to self: not on a buddy either?)

@Swift:

Day 1 - Final VoteCount

JAMFTW - L6 (FightingShadow)
malpascp - LYNCHED (

Internet stranger, JAMFTW, Bristep123, Empking, Sky

, Swiftstrike, Smallpeople343)
smallpeoples343 (Locke) L-3

(

yabbaguy, PereguineV, Rikana,

malpascp

)

Empking - L6 (SomeRandomGuy)

Currently, I think this is a totally Town-driven wagon. I've already told people how I feel Peregrine and Rikana are two of the Towniest players in the game. While I admit I've seen Town merrily go on their way to self-conducting a mislynch bandwagon, this amplifies the likelihood significantly that Locke would show scum, in fact.

Whatever, I don't even know what the word "wooly" means. I'm Town-clearing too many as I've mentioned previously, and esp. after jumping off a plane from London, I'm scatterbrained. But you bringing that wagon analysis up actually makes me believe more and more that Locke is most likely to show scum.

IS just exploded on Xanatos, I'm not buying the scumminess. I think this is based on tells that might need some research on past games - and that's on IS to do in my opinion. For example, the "Hi there! Ask me anything and I'll dutifully answer them!" scumtell that IS flagged out-front: is this actually something that statistically shows scum often?

[yabbaguy]

From the MS Wiki:

Variations

Some Jailkeepers not only protect their target from all kills, but also render its target untargetable by all other actions during that Night. This variant is also known as Alien.

Okay, so Xanatos actually has a serious point here. BUT, I'm still inclined to believe that that variant may actually have been Sky's role. I know the Wiki suggests it's called something else, but Plissken may have switchy-switchied it around - don't think that's a terribly abNormal thing to do, if you get the drift. I've seen weirder crap show up in Normal setups, such as Mafia "taking turns" doing the kill according to a mod-set batting order. That came from a rookie mod.

Xanatos, what do you think of Sky's assertation that "he didn't know No Result =/= No Gun?" My thought is, yes, it's an honest and human error he made. Well, I guess I know what you think then, but why?

[yabbaguy]

To be clear, the Wiki therefore acknowledges that only Kill actions on the target are nullified by default.

[yabbaguy]

Whoa, deadline blindsided me.

This becomes supremely a Town-favored game if IS and Sky are cleared right here and now. I think scum are balking at this - and it's one or both of Locke/Xanatos therefore. This is how I operated as serial killer in that very game with the scum "batting order" I was mentioning - when it came down to me potentially running out of mislynches due to powerclaims, I started balking and crying out "well it could be this farfetched possibility!" out of desperation.

I really wish it was Locke instead of David getting lynched - esp. considering they may be disjointly aligned with Locke's "I think he's legit" remark, but I feel I have no choice.

Unvote, Vote: David Xanatos

[yabbaguy]

I just don't think it's implausible for one that the jailkeeper could completely incapacitate its target, but secondly, there's a roleblocking potential. Since scum RB is a MASSIVELY popular role in Normals, it could've easily happened to Sky.

I find Sky's claim very believable, and that scum are trying to jerrymander with it. There is very likely an Investigative-class role in the game, the way I see it. I don't see a counterclaim, so I'm assuming it's true, like Swift.

[yabbaguy]

This is MyLo if this is 3-scum, yes?

Xanatos' googley-eye expression and the "why exactly are you voting me?" is really dodgy - and I think it's more a guilt anxiety as well. Just is what I would go for at this point. Maybe he could've been genuine about pointing out the flawed mechanics on another game, but in this game, I think it's scumminess.

What's irking me still is Locke. Locke Lamora basically also balked at the Sky claim and did nothing. The trouble is that I'm not sure if two scum would simultaneously want to stick out awkwardly and want to both scream at the other Town to go back on the wagon. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Not a sure-fire tell, but that's my hunch.

[yabbaguy]

@Mod can we get confirmation if we are at mylo or not?

This question is seldom, if ever, answered outside of an Open. Why are you asking this?

[yabbaguy]

Sorry, thought I was in a rush. Basically, there are instances when scum ask this question to claim naïvete of the setup, but from a Town vantage, it's a really dumb and pointless question and thus gains nothing for the Town players.

[yabbaguy]

Exactly. That's what I'm saying - absolutely pointless question.

[yabbaguy]

Allow me to take this Q+ button for a spin as I point all this out:

I feel rather bad about having doubted the claim now.. although I do want to see the specifics of the JK role afterwards...

Will need to review with this information in mind I guess. :/

Wait. Why exactly are you voting me? o_0

Are you saying that my pointing out that standard Jailkeeper would not block a Gunsmith result as he claimed was wrong?

Just to be clear that your basis of suspecting me is that I looked at the wiki?

Sorry, I read that as "rarely asked outside an Open". Misread you, my apologies.

This is a lot of scum talk, in my experience. I don't have an explanation as to why each one is scummy, but this is what I've felt comes from scum more often than not.

• "Why exactly" is a phrase that usually eminates a guilty vibe, "why, umm, exactly are you accusing me?" The weirded-out face doesn't really match, I think he knows why he's being accused, it's not like it was sudden.
  
• Trying to laugh off accusations.
  
• Apologizing excessively.

[yabbaguy]

Little things like this make me want you dead...so much -___-;

Why?

[yabbaguy]

And IS is 100% Town because he has no gun. Mafia essentially ALWAYS have a gun as your bolded excerpt pointed out.

You're making absolutely not one iota of sense right now, and that is frightening. The one thing that makes me most scared and angry is the [possibility, in this case] of getting accused over absolute nonsense.

Why do you hate your predecessor Rikana?

[yabbaguy]

Re: your question - if David falls Town, then odds on it's gg, so I don't care. If he's scum though - I'm going to fire at Swift initially considering how conversational this post sounded when Swift asked the moronic question:

Surely the Mod would never confirm that anyway? That'd be revealing the number of Scum in the setup by default really, which I'm fairly sure would be a pretty heavy effect on the game.

Again, it's a hunch - I think that's sort of buddy-buddy conversation. I've seen a super-chain of posts I just perceive as scummy from David. Essentially every single one has something about it that just pings scum.

Personal policy is that I never make votes past my bed time, but I think I'm just about there, to be honest.

[yabbaguy]

Swift, I had forgotten that, but this is different. Mine actually served to remind the Town that we were at MyLo - a fact that everyone either was keeping implicit or hadn't known. That is actually helpful - although I phrased it as a question and said "if", it gains value.

Your question actually gains NOTHING because it's utterly useless - no way the mod actually tells you, and YOU KNEW THAT. Yours is basically a way to gain Towncred because it's a question that says "I don't know how many scum there are" by asking a USELESS question. Ergo, it's fakey baloney. And I've done it before as scum in another game. That's the difference - my question helped, and yours was hollow.

And hey, I thought FS was Town initially, but I've changed my mind. I'm allowed to do that, and I'm doing it now.

Vote: David Xanatos

[yabbaguy]

@Swift: Have you played all Open/Semi-Open games until now?

[yabbaguy]

I had absolutely no chance. It was more scum playing well than Town bollocksing it up, although it was a bit of both.

[yabbaguy]

Oh I was supposed to rage? I mean I could've gone on about how Peregrine was so fucking obvTown that this exemplified the fact that Mafia is all just random bullshit. That and the fact that SRG stayed up at fucking midnight to produce reads on players that were so damn genuine that I thought there was no way he couldn't be scum. And the fact that had people actually listened to my Swift case, even if for some reason it was actually inaccurate, it would've lynched scum. I had Swift-scum nailed, even, but that's really all I can claim. I could've gone on about how either IS or I had kept our mouths shut just a little bit, things might've actually been better. But I don't need to go on about how this was all just another session of bullshit, because that's how I feel bad in the end. I actually feel quite bad despite getting shafted pretty badly.

The problem I have is this - if I suddenly STOP being active, then it suddenly becomes a matter of "wait, where the fuck is yabb when it actually matters?" So I can't really stop being a loudmouth, but that said, I have to remember that I am absolutely rubbish at hunting and need to shut up more from the start.

It was kinda necessary though with the way Day 1 went.

Also miffed that the 2-shot vig never got both shots off. We shouldn't have no lynched that one Day, but we were really all over the map. Unlucky the replacement had to happen.

@Snake: Thanks, it was a fun game. You should be more frequent with votecounts and actually have a set inactivity interval for prods instead of having the players ask or you putting a subjective parameter on it. The game ran very smoothly though and it was good.

[yabbaguy]

So you were crumbing?

[yabbaguy]

I actually feel quite bad despite getting shafted pretty badly.

Quite good*, by the way.

[yabbaguy]

I still don't get how I was ever called scummy. "White knight" succumbed to what I personally call the BBQ Fallacy - trying to use a meaningless acronym or buzzword in an attempt to explain everything when it explains nothing. I'm glad a lynch never went through, because the only cases on me were impossible ones.

You know, this is why I feel Mafia is all random bullshit. One game a tell was right, the next it steers you hopelessly the wrong way, such as SRG's genuine-sounding fake-out at L-1. And since there's never a damn indication one way or the other, one always gets it hopelessly wrong. But I find Deal or No Deal really fun, so I like this as well.

[yabbaguy]

yGDB updated. Wish I knew one thing, ant's claiming 3-shot, but Snake's said 2-shot twice now.