Mini 1390: Game Over

[JacobSavage]

VOTE: Abaddon
Abaddonment is a very serious issue ....

[JacobSavage]

Im lost does anyone have a map?

[JacobSavage]

@Deltabacon

I'll admit I was just trying to avoid prods, but purley as currently there is nothing i can really add. I have read the thread (all 4 pages of it :O ) about 4/5 times now and still not really getting any sort of reads from anybody. I mean the argument between Cherry and Abaddon could as easily be a simple town on town argument due to a misunderstanding somewhere along the line (again, like i said I am lost, i dont really quite understand where it all started from) all the way through to being two scum hoping to distance each other.

[JacobSavage]

Give me 24 hours, Im gonna have to make a spreadsheet

[JacobSavage]

surprisingly enough this is my Sixth (technically Seven but the first one was abandoned due to mod error) but yeah analysis was never my thing, hence the reason why I have resorted to spreadsheets to organise my thoughts

[JacobSavage]

@Mod Im going away this weekend so if dont post its because of that

[JacobSavage]

@Tommy

You gave me 24 hours and I have a spreadsheet. Unfortunately real life got in the way so i ended up doing some of this rather late at night. After about post 88 i started getting tired so you may have to take things with a pinch of salt.

Also as its late at night, I really CBA to go through my spreadsheet and take my comments out and format it so here's a link to it
The whole spreadsheets there, with my comments. First Row is Name, second Row is my abbreviation for them, Third is scumminess score this is out of 10 with 5 being neutral, 10 being almost certainly town (green) and 1 being defiantly scum (red). Comments are there for major posts / just general observations.The votes coloum shows how close to a lynch they are (purple being hammered) I have myself in just so i can review my own play.

That took far to long to share and post.
Enjoy.

As noted above (Possibly?) V/LA this weekend, so dont expect any replies till sunday evening. If you get them just be happy.

[JacobSavage]

I wouldn't say he was actually, Yes he has the lowest score (I dont actually determine that, it does that automatically from how I read each post) but he has only posted twice at that point so as I found his first post slighly scummy he ended up comming out on top. Most of my reasoning for the score i assigned is given in the comments table.

On the post up to date version Cherry comes out on bottom.

[JacobSavage]

Its a little iffy when people haven't posted much unfourtunatly.
With Cherry it was mainly a general scumish vibe with a few bad posts (eg #44) where it seams he was trying to make a plan exist where there wasn’t one, he just forgot to vote, it happens
And agian, he appears to be making issues look at #65 for his responce to ST perfectly acceptable question about timezones. Other than that most of his posts are neutral leaning slight scum

[JacobSavage]

Firstly I should unvote, I kind of forgot to... so...
UNVOTE:

Secondly this is my reads, with some explanations, mostly taken from the spreadsheet some added later on as people have posted more.

Abaddon

Neutral-ish, 4.6

Really not much to go on, Only #123 and #144 hints at slight scum, but only if Panama was his scum buddy. Lot of neutral posts, occasional personal attacks suggest that maybe he is dishonorable intentions. But there is a large spread of slightly townie and slightly scummy posts. Will need more information in order to build anything substantial.

Toxictapian

Slightly town leaning, 5.2

Very skewed data, I didnt like his #63 at all but much of his later play has been very town leaning attempt at Reaction Testing was a good idea, unfortunately it didnt work, but i gave him town points. Possible buddying with Abaddon (#145 and #102) and to a lesser extend Tommy (#155). Again there is a lot of variation in what he posts, so im not that confident in my read here.

IdiotKing

Slightly town leaning, 5.4

Although he hasnt posted great quanaties, what he has posted has been good (for example #180) but he does seam to be occasionally fishing for opinions (#111). However does seam to be lurking a lot, would like more at some point.

Absta 101

Null

DeltaBacon

Hideously Town, 5.6

Although he has not posted much at all. I have recorded 6 posts in total, some of his posts have been very town leaning. For example in his argument in #92 and the pointing out that why wasnt he included in the list of people. This striked me as a town move as why would scum complain about being below the radar. However he hasnt posted a lot so my read of him is quite likely to change over time.

Tommy

Slightly town leaning, 5.4

I think that tommy is one of the players that i am most sure in my read off. He has constantly been putting pressure on people to post and provide opinions but not so much as to just randomly attacking people without any clear reasons under the pretence of "pressure". I found this in #42 when he was questioning CD but not making him go on the defensive. However I worry slightly that he could be mafia and we are just being led on a merry dance

_Sherlock_

Certainly Looks Scummy,4.4

(Pink because red is the mods colour)
This is my most certain scum read. I mean before the replacement, i had the slot down as neutral but some of the stuff he has said.... Look at#181, you should always have reasons, no matter how vague they are and you should always try and answer questions (#179) In fact nearly all of his posts look like a scum searching for a quick lynch. I may be wrong but for now
VOTE: _Sherlock_

Sable Tip

Maybe Town?,5.3

Not much content to go over, but what she has posted seams good, so yeah i could call her town. It could go either way. Not much more to add, her timezone question was a null point, dont see how much it shows about her alignments.

TheTrollie

Probably Scum,4.4

#166 Rage, again defending CD. I would support a CD lynch in order to get information, if CD turns to be scum PR then lynch TT immediately, as it could be him trying to draw the flack away from his leader? I dont know, that and #196 just deserves to get him lynched.

Major FOS: TheTrollie

Radelle

Neutral-ish, 4.8

Not much here, just a couple of possibly buddies (e.g. AS after #141) and penis references (#135)
That and ambigous gender. Are you a she or a he. Its getting awkward.

CherryDog

Probably Scum,4.6

My major issue with CD is from #44, where he appears to be attempting to make up a plan when there wasn't one and attacking someone not to vote is just silly. That and there is not much else. I owuld say either newb town or scum.

Slandaar

Neutral leaning town, 4.7

A couple of good posts 9 (#45, #90) but other than that he very really adds much to the discussion, possibly scum fishing to see where the next lynch is going to happen? I dont know, possible buddy with Tommy (#114) but yeah not much.

TO SUMMARISE

	Very Sure	Sure	Reasonably Sure	Unsure	Very unsure
Scum			_Sherlock_	TheTrollie	CherryDog
Neutral		Slandaar	Radelle	Absta 101
Town	Tommy		IdiotKing		DeltaBacon, Sable Tip

[JacobSavage]

@DB: My rating system its self determines a crude measure of how scummy a players posts are. However because it is in accurate I look at the Sample Variance as well (for example yours is one of the highest at 1.3, suggesting that perhaps there could be some variation as I get more and more data), that is where i base my uncertainties on.

But I also had to look through the data and see. For example Radelle has a lot of posts and a small varience (0.3) but she has many neutral posts, and because she often does multi-posting i have to experiment with the data a little to get a reasonable compensation. Where as slandaar doesn't post as much but has less neutral posts, and my gut placed him as probably more town than the rest of them. And high numbers indicate townie posts and low numbers indicate scummy posts.

@ Mod

Could you remove my above post, sorry

[JacobSavage]

@Cherry Yes that would be true but I found it very difficult to read parama as it although I found him scummy it could have just been the way he played so i decided in that case to give him the benefit of the doubt and wipe the slate clean in this case. In the case of JasonWazza I kept the values the same

[JacobSavage]

@Jacob

: You have yet to answer the following:

@Jacob: A few things.

1) When you make your notes, are they for yourself or others?
2) Could you link to the game where you used the spreadsheets and got lynched?

Do you have a nonedited version of your spreadsheet somewhere? You used to have comments on more recent things. You had addressed some points between Toxic and I further. You had stuff like, "Toxic refuted comments nothing much here", etc I got a 6 rating for something recent I said too. I like seeing my cell being green.

1. i tend to make them for myself, but here I tried to be slightly more readable as I guessed I would have to post them.
2. I will try and find it but I did a quick search and couldn't find it. note that I was using a slightly different method then.
Also that should be the original version I posted bit when I get home I shall gather all the versions and post them separately. however I don't think I actually edited it since I posted it.
UNVOTE:

[JacobSavage]

EBWOP I am happy with Sherlocks reasons. therefore
VOTE: TheTrollie

[JacobSavage]

Basically Parama made my head hurt. I couldn't work out if his posts were scummy because he was scum or scummy because thats just how he rolls. So in this case his playstyle was affecting my read of his alignment. So by removing him from the equation I can stop my head hurting and make things clearer.

Thus i only had very few actual Absta 101 posts to go on and as such I will wait till a later date to give my read.

@Radellee

What is currently linked was exactly what was posted at 3.18 am, however I did update it later at 1.30pm later that day. I changed it back to the orginal version in order to preserve it and now have a copy of the slighly updated one

here

[JacobSavage]

@Jacob:

(1) I don't get ur spreadsheet thing very much but I will ISO you tonight and see if I can understand. I know you've been answering questions about it so idk if its just that I am not paying enough attention or if I still have unanswered questions
(2) your read on me does not make logical sense. You think I am likely scum because you think I'm defending CD because CD and I are buddies, yet you have

a stronger scum-read on me than of CD

. see how that doesn't make sense?

@Jacob: ISOd you. was focusing only on understanding your chart. If you are going to use this system to determine your reads I want to understand it fully. ill start with a few questions:
(

3

) do you rate the scummyness of each post by a player and then like average it or something? that is my best guess but I see no explicit explanation of your process.
(

4

) is there a formula or like are there certain behaviors that = point values (i.e. do you have some formula where backtracking = X scumpoints, scumslip = Y scumpoints)?
(

5

) is each post given a score, or are posts binary (scum/not scum)? Does each post count just as much as any other, or does your system allow you to give certain posts more weight?
(

6

) if each post does get a score, is that score just a rating of scummyness from 1-10 (like the final scores are) or do you rate those differently?
(

7

) how many times have u used this method?

(

8

)@jacob: one more issue I have with understanding your reads (which you can address when explaining your method):

How does the scale work? You have a 10-point scale but you seem to be making very strong claims based on differences in tenths of a point. how large of a difference is there in a 4.6 read and a 4.7 read?

i am realizing that i actually just have no idea how to go about understanding your system. i really need a comprehensive explanation of your system otherwise i have no way of understanding your reads at all

First off I renumbered your questions just to make it easier for me that is all.
(2) First off it wasn't totally based off the fact that CD and you were buddies. It was also based off that and some of your other posts. (#196 I think)
(3) Yes, I assign a score of 1-10 for scumminess and then it works out an average and i can also track how that changes over time (although that's in another sheet)
(4) And no, unfortunatly, that would be clever, but instead it is purley based on what I think of that post, and if I want to make a specific comment about a certain post I stick it in the Comments coloum for future reference.
(5) Yes its just 1-10, which explains why the scores are so close. Because they're a very few posts that are at either end of the spectrum most of the scores are clustered around the 5 mark. So the tiny differences are very important.
(7) only once or twice
(8) My reads are not strictly based on peoples posts but the numbers are used as a guide for me to make my own judgement.

Does that help?

@absata

I am more than happy to explain my method because it helps people understand where I am comming from.

[JacobSavage]

@TheTrollie. Fair enough, I would love to hear your opinion on how to improve it afterwards. (Just to clarify that is a genuine statement not passive aggression)

@kwill, hi welcome thanks for coming at such short notice. hugs all around.

@all did we ever get a consensus on whether to address radelle as a male or female.

UNVOTE:
Trollies recent additions I feel are slightly more town motivated and as such I think my previous read may of been off.

[JacobSavage]

I personally think we should keep CD around for a few more days just until we get a better case on him and have more infomation.
However my opionion on how to lynch is currently no one, but that will change soon I hope.

[JacobSavage]

I am afraid I am inclinded to side with you absta in this case,
That post seamed lazy and just taking various points that he has read and just posting them. Seeing as I am currently not voting,
VOTE: kwll
On the other hand well done

IdiotKing

, Your post was good and though many the townpoints to you, however would you mind saying who you would most like a lynch on today and any reasons why you choose them over someone else?

[JacobSavage]

As in I would like to be able to add something more to the discussion rather just hoping along with your case, but in this case i couldn't find anything more to add, hence why "afraid"

[JacobSavage]

@trollie. Its a combination of two things, 1 I found his play similar to the game when he was scum. 2 he just gets me all rubbing in all the wrong ways.

[JacobSavage]

this is getting scary guys...deadline is 2 days...

No really its not. 2 days is not scary at all. there's still time, you tend to get more poare closer to the end of the day. Also as it approaches people tend to hop off smaller wagons onto the larger ones because in most cases everyone wants to see a lynch.

Also I'm happy where I am now, tthat just post especially sounds like scum trying yo hard to be viewed as town. that and I tend to view people posting multiple posts on multiple occasions as more of a scum tell as to me it smacks of scum trying to look more active than they are. x

[JacobSavage]

@Mod, can I ask whats happening with the deadline / whether it is staying where it is, as I may not be able to get on tomorrow. Sorry to bug you

First things first I trollie is maybe a lynch for another day, but as the kwell wagon doens't look like it is going anywhere and with the deadline only a day away, its to time to file that for another day, so:
UNVOTE:
Fuck. Of the two biggest wagons I currently hold both as town. I think that might be an issue...
So it comes down to who I think is going to provide the most information. Now that i don't know, I mean Trollie has made lots of posts on people , but Panama's early posts could be an interesting re-read with a flip...

GAHAHAHAH TOO MUCH TO CHOOSE FROM!!!
VOTE: Kwell RETREAT!

[JacobSavage]

of the two I think that absta is most likely scum, Trollie looks much like I do when I am about to get D1 lynched. so
UNVOTE:
VOTE: absta

[JacobSavage]

@absta
1. not a day one lynch but I replaced in there https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=13332
2. Okay my be was I was an SK that game but sssh https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14128
3. Finally this one D1, VT (yes I know, I was a terrible player then) https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=13625

But yes any protective roles really should be on Trollie tonight now but other than that I think not wasting it until its needed is best although it would be a good test of his claim.

[JacobSavage]

can I ask trollie why the change from slaander must be looked at?

[JacobSavage]

not for the first half of the first night, I kind of forgot to check but other than that...

[JacobSavage]

What/where you applying to? [/offtopic]
Anyway in my humble opinion Trollie should be considered a invalid lynch target for the rest of the day, I mean there is little point arguing over whether Trollie is an SK/Vig/2nd Scum team when we could be focusing on finding the other scum, we can control his kills in order to make sure its not too harmful to town.

Also I would say yes to mass claim but thats just me

[JacobSavage]

Also V/LA Sunday and Monday by the way. thanks

[JacobSavage]

Sland, what case are you trying to make?

My case is basically; When I read some of your posts I feel like I am at the theater.

I'm going to go ahead and call Slandar town. No scum would even risk being that audacious (although I'd admit you raise a good point)

[JacobSavage]

Opps sorry mod Prodded

[JacobSavage]

@kwell , Im pretty sure I did respond. just in case i didnt

I am a neighbour with IdiotKing

Also looking at the recent interactions between Thor, Kinetic and Toxic I think that given the interactions between them it is highly likely that at least one of the threesome is scum. Probably Thor, mainly because I dont like players who are over assertive. it focuses the game on them and everything else becomes less of an issue. Currently I dont have enough to place a vote down but will probably look futher on thursfday.

[JacobSavage]

Not nesciarly scummy but it means that I am more suspicous of them . its just a personal thing.

also this is my 7th I believe I took a few years out inbetween.

[JacobSavage]

@slandaar it still does. hasnt been updated in a while

@Thor I should have said suspicous, I mean that ill pay much closer attention to you

[JacobSavage]

Pretty much. Except that its more I'll take what you say slightly less seriously.

[JacobSavage]

@Slandaar it is in exactly the same condition as before, there have been no changes, I realised it wasn't the most efficent way, instead I have just been Scrawling notes down on paper.
Also maybe _Sherlock_ is JasonWazza..... [conspiracy face]

@Idoit... but both of them have more posts than I do though....

@Thor, most likely to be scum is still kwell, his posts i don't like, will probably make a more detailed case after thursday. Slaander definatly seams slippery and you concern me.

[JacobSavage]

@Mod

Forgot to mention I'm LA til Wednesday sorry.

[JacobSavage]

Mod: Is there like, any way I could bribe you to extend the deadline?

Maybe. But for a large potion of this game day, there was extremely low activity. I see no reason to extend a deadline if the majority of players wont even make use of it, and it will just cause the game to drag on.

What about if we all asked very nicely and we all promised to step up our activity

[JacobSavage]

Hello all, Im back in the game.
First thoughts; 1, it is so odd that both Kinetic and Thor have been at L-1 for quite some time. Personally I think that Thor is the more likley of the two to be scum.
Firstly he has refused to claim. I know this has been mentioned over and over agian (at the time I was half considering claiming intent to hammer just because).
Secondly most of what he has been doing is attacking and trying to redirect the lynch onto others, which I find scummy.

@Knowa or who ever asked. There isnt much discussion in the QT. One thing that does make me think that IK is town is that when i Didn't respond for a while he was like Damn it, are you scum disccusing whether or not to Nightkill him. To me very townie response

[JacobSavage]

The town response would be to try and defend himself from the accusations and/or explain the intentions behind what is percieved to be scummy.

Also by the end I was starting to warm to the idea of Radelle town. Also its a lot easier just to respond to people that it is to build a case against some one, so I believe Kinetic to be honest.

VOTE: Thor665
Will you just claim please...

[JacobSavage]

I have been following it, I don't have a case as such, most of what i say are bits of pieces that are sort of stuck in my head.
That was my gut reaction bascially, one of Thor/Kinetic is scum, to me Thor seams more likely, Trollie shoo the other one if he flips town

[JacobSavage]

You could argue that. I kind of just want a claim from him before the night phase.
My view is that thor is more scummy and has stronger links.
Also do you have anyway of knowing his alignment i.e. are you neighbours / masons?w

[JacobSavage]

I know this is going to sound stupid but what is comfimation bias?

[JacobSavage]

WE ARE NOT LYNCHING ANYONE UNTIL THOR HAS CLAIMED
Its just silly, Trollie will probably shoot the other tonight so...

[JacobSavage]

I shouldnt have to ask really. when your on L-1 you claim, that is standard I can understand if it was a quickwagon D1 or something but when half the town wants you to claim. You claim.

[JacobSavage]

@Idoit

. Do your neighbour a favour and claim intent to hammer on thor please... If you get a claim out of him i might be convinced to come and join you on Kinetic

[JacobSavage]

I agree, he's been obvscum all game
UNVOTE:
VOTE: JacobSavagr

[JacobSavage]

Slightly more that I would like unfourtuantly
The number of times I've witnessed massive arguments between two players where I was sure one of them was scum and they both flipped town is ridiculous.

[JacobSavage]

I have my reasons: 1. the way Toxic and Thor were acting makes it seams like they had some way of knowing each others alignment, and I just want to check that there wasn't other reasons behind it.the I mean Thor should claim anyway (Just a point I have always seen claiming on L-1 in every game I have been it, and none of those have been newbies).

Also to me the mass claim seemed a good idea, sorry if you disagree with it

[JacobSavage]

VOTE: ThorSorry hold on.

[JacobSavage]

Yep now thats an intent to hammer

[JacobSavage]

Sorry Trollie

[JacobSavage]

Can I ask would it bee a good idea to get everyone to post their reads, just so we have something to work off?

[JacobSavage]

UNVOTE:

It seams silly to even think about lynching a protective role claim at this stage. I believe a quick wagon is the way to go..

VOTE: Slandaar

[JacobSavage]

And i always thought it was, especially for cops and what not

[JacobSavage]

Yes he may be lying but is now really the time to even think about lynching a possible protective role, whatever happens it means that Trollie will definatly get one more shot.
If Trollie dies tonight we lynch Thor, If Thor dies tonight then Trollie will probably die that night

[JacobSavage]

I'd be more happy to lynch Slandaar without a claim that either lynch a claimed Bodyguard or a person who I have a town read on (Kinetic)

[JacobSavage]

Why do you see Kinetic as town?

Its a more of a general feeling than anything else. Theres a couple of things I think, but really i dont have that much time right this second.

[JacobSavage]

@Thor i think what trollie is saying is that by not protecting him your effectivly protecting yourself

[JacobSavage]

I will probably update it overnight and post it in the QT

[JacobSavage]

Yep, everyones made some sort of comment, still waiting on the feedback on Slandaars claim

[JacobSavage]

With the deadline 3 hours away, A mass claim is all but impossible (although there is only 4 left to claim...) Anyway, I think that its going to have to be one of Thor / Kinetic and I don't want to lynch Thor so
VOTE: (mv^2)/2

Also Thor if you don't protect Trollie tonight, so help me God.

[JacobSavage]

The change comes about because of the claim, I cant imagine that 1. he'll survive to the morning. 2. if he does and you don't then we lynch him. 3. you both survive and yay everyone's happy

its for kinetic

[JacobSavage]

Well that was the hammer Me thinks

[JacobSavage]

I believe so. so kwell what do you think of the day?

[JacobSavage]

trollie what decided who ypu shot last nigh / who you did shoot

[JacobSavage]

Well that's probably the best outcome of the night.
Lets take a look at things as they are, we have eight players, Trollie I want you to claim your target last night, did you not kill or did you target Slaandar?
I think we should discuss a mass claim at some point today. That is all for now

Also one thing I must say about you, mod, is that your always prompt. I like that.

[JacobSavage]

I am not counter claiming you (obviously)

,
I would assume Idiot won't either.

[JacobSavage]

kwll do you care to state a counterclaim or not?

[JacobSavage]

@Sherlock, how would you propose going about it? Popcorn style?

[JacobSavage]

Yep post #537

[JacobSavage]

To be fair at this stage I don't think its that much of an issue wheter Trollie is a Serial Killer, if we lynch him we will probably lose anyway.

[JacobSavage]

This is all lovely and what not, but shouldn't we wait for Trollie to report in first? Tell us what he knows....

[JacobSavage]

Actually that's are fair point. What made you choose to investigate slandaar? Did you not read the links the Mod has in his signature. In particular this one?

[JacobSavage]

My view on bullet-proofness is that its a passive ability not an active one.
As in like a vanilla he just sits through the night twiddling his thumbs, and only if he gets hit does anyone see any different

[JacobSavage]

Okay we have 8 players. Trollie is cleared until three scum are gone (baring some weird mafia with extra kill and slandaar being his willing buddy that first role goes against the normality rules so we'll scrap that.

ONE OF SHERLOCK / SLANDAAR MUST BE SCUM
That leaves two out of 5 of us. Tommy had suspicions on kwll and Kinetic early on. So

FOS: Kwll

Scum are rarly bullet proof which leads me to believe that he is either NK immune (something normally associated with the Godfather) Sherlock guilty disproves this.

Our of the four of us left, toxic is them most likely scum. notice how much of yesterday was spent stirring the argument.

If we go down the Lynch one vig the other I'd prefere a slandaar lynch 1. Miller 2. Possible NK immune

[JacobSavage]

Can I just remind everyone that looking at the opening post's by the Mod you'll see this game is modular. i.e. speculation about possible set up seams unlikely given the roles are determined by random.

But I think

Town

Cop
BG
Vig
Neighbours

Scum

1 Shot BP
Godfather (?)

Is just as likely.

@Whoever Asked it

I have no special powers other than having someone to chat to at night.
Also do Neighbours really count as a PR, I mean masons yes defiantly. They're confirmable and

[JacobSavage]

But Neighbours, all they do is provide some sort of company during the night.

[JacobSavage]

Ahhhh okay, sorry. I miss-understood.

[JacobSavage]

Even if you are cop and your results are correct. There is always a chance of roles that would make your investigations usless. For example a Godfather would make your result on Konowa usless.

[JacobSavage]

If he flips scum then your not off the hook yet though.

[JacobSavage]

Fair enough if slandaar flips miller (do millers get told their millers?) then what?
Its unlikely but what would Trollie do then?

[JacobSavage]

I am going to laugh if IK and Jacob are a scum team team that has duped town. If one of them died....we would one of two things...The Whole scum team....

slandaar and them 2 if one of them flipped scum

...or if one flipped neighbor we have a CONFIRMED townie...which would aid us greatly in Lylo.

Just another angle to look at it from.

Notice how he just skips the point completely about _Sherlock_ and instead just assumes that Slandaar is guilty. Great, I wasn't up to lynching Slandaar yet but if Sherlock flips scum we have the second right here

[JacobSavage]

Okay that effectively confirms that the scum have a method for stopping kills. I'm going to assume role-blocker.
Secondly we can't either assume that Thor was good to his word and saved Trollie (but role-blocking and killing, seems a little excessive, wouldn't their kill stop Trollie's kill)

For this play to make sense scum must of been planning to push the idea of him being SK, which would kind of clear Idiot to me, in our QT he made no mention of pushing Trollie as SK so it wouldn't make sense from a scum perspective. Instead we should look at the people who have been pushing the SK idea the most)
Or Thor wen't crazy and decided to protect someone else (Sherlock possibly?) would mean that they wouldn't have a RB.
Maybe they just shot Thor ....
Don't know may make a tree diagram at some point

[JacobSavage]

Actually it could just be:
Thor on Sherlock
Trollie shooting Sherlock
Scum shooting Thor

[JacobSavage]

If it emerges that Sherlock is telling the truth,

You just shot the Sheriff...

[JacobSavage]

Because he wanted to slow the game down.

Also my opion on Sherlock being confirmed town is if Slandaar flips miller. anything else is open to Wifom and scum information.

[JacobSavage]

I think its a case of that it might be the best play now but is it the best play in the future sort of thing.
Also Sherlock mods signature post - I'm terrible in LYLO.

[JacobSavage]

Okay he's my plan. Everyone invite then go, don't post here for 36 hours.
Calm down, stop being emotional. When you have done that go through and analyse every possibly cause of action.
Think things through re-read the thread look into players meta (I have one alt "Fe" it has a completed scum game look at it if you like)
There's no point in getting all worked up, this is the time for reasoned judgements not getting ourselves wrapped up with fear and worry that we can't act effectively.
X

[JacobSavage]

EWODP: Unvote

[JacobSavage]

How crazy would a Sherlock, Slandaar and Konowa scum team be?

[JacobSavage]

Umm guys would you mind like unvoting. ...

Actually shoot whoever hammers that should stop them....

[JacobSavage]

....

That was clever

[JacobSavage]

Okay you make a pretty convincing argument. If he is scum who would you say are his likely partners. Kwll what about you. ..

[JacobSavage]

Okay no matter what Trollie isn't Mafia, that's a given.

Lets think about this, we don't know much
If Slandaar's town Sherlocks scum and vice versa
If I'm scum, Idiot's town and vice versa

Those two are pretty much guaranteed.
If Konowas a goon, Sherlocks scum
If Sherlocks cop then konowas a possible clear

[JacobSavage]

Okay no matter what Trollie isn't Mafia, that's a given.

Lets think about this, we don't know much
If Slandaar's town Sherlocks scum and vice versa
If I'm scum, Idiot's town and vice versa

Those two are pretty much guaranteed.
If Konowas a goon, Sherlocks scum
If Sherlocks cop then konowas a possible clear

[JacobSavage]

Well that was clever...
And I don't know possibly Sherlock but then we could be hammering a nail into our coffin

[JacobSavage]

The one thing I just can't get rid off is that it seams so convenient.
If Slandaar is bulletproof that really messes with Scums chances of winning, it will upset the this being mylo

[JacobSavage]

It takes 2 NKs to get rid of him

[JacobSavage]

or

we

could just lynch him

Lets see assuming nobody hits him tonight they won't be able to lynch him tommorrow (3 v 3)...

But after that they win

[JacobSavage]

Pretty much, Kell are you going to explain that we statement?

[JacobSavage]

I'm lost about this current conversation.

I want to say scum disappearing when they know their screwed but on the other hand...
Where is Slandaar?

[JacobSavage]

Here's a fun fact there are only three players that haven't been prodded: Trollie, Konowa and amazingly Slandaar....

[JacobSavage]

move: e4

[JacobSavage]

Second fun fact, it would be possible to get through this game with only 17 posts without being prodded...

[JacobSavage]

knight c3

Basically now were waiting for

Godot

Sherlock. Its an interesting point about Slandaar is that it's almost like he's deliberately trying to keep a low profile, I mean the fact that he's still barley posting despite the fact that he's been fingered as scum seems like a very town like reaction. Scum would be desperately trying to cover their backs in order to stop them being lynched (Cough Sherlock cough) bit instead his attitude points to more of a townie mentality

[JacobSavage]

I think the issue with follow the cop is that until scum find the Doc they can't kill the cop . With a vig, cop and bg the cop can get a maximum of one result before he dies (assuming sensible scum that is).

As it is even without any scum powers I'd say it's balanced.

[JacobSavage]

Okay and what about tommorrow who then?
If he flips scum who are his buddies
if he's town who are his buddies. ...
(also is that L-1?)

[JacobSavage]

or

we could just lynch

him

Does no one else find this a little dodgy? or is this just me?

[JacobSavage]

I'm not really arguing anything.
I just want to get an opinion on what everyone else thinks.
Chances are I'm going to be alive tommorrow and I'm terrible at reads

[JacobSavage]

vote sland /

Ahhh right okay fair enough. I was like wait what but that makes sense

[JacobSavage]

I think we still should. but we shouldn't end the day too soon

[JacobSavage]

It terms of night kill actions I'm guessing that scum thought that he wasn't going to protect Trollie so took a pot shoy

[JacobSavage]

pawn d6

[JacobSavage]

Wait damn it missed a row..

move: Ne2

Just for referance

e4 c5 Nc3 d6 Ne2

[JacobSavage]

To be honest, the fact that kwll is more than happy to engage in a game of chess to me seams townish, scum don't want to make a wrong move. You on the other hand seem to be just trying to make an easy win. Given that I know that I am town, and think that kwll and Idiot are town it leaves two out of {Slandaar/Konowa/Sherlock} and You (I'll re evaluate if Sherlock flips cop obviously)

Code: Select all

[chess][/chess] 

(Pawn d3)

[JacobSavage]

The only thing that hadn't be mentioned is that wanted either kwll or slandaar dead N2 (last nigh)

[JacobSavage]

I should have pointed out that was what idiot thoughts were...

[JacobSavage]

No.

[JacobSavage]

Okay we have one scum left, this means we have 1 mislynch.

Therefore Konowa is either a godfather or town.

[JacobSavage]

Hey Sherlock I thought you were supposed to be looking into someone suspicious not the person everyone thinks is town...

[JacobSavage]

Or you die and it's a 3 way LYLO...

[JacobSavage]

Hmmm I guess. ...

Couldn't Konowa be a godfather still?

[JacobSavage]

Wait what?

[JacobSavage]

@Mod: How many abilities can one person have?

And hhmmm.... If you mean that Konowa might be a gf that's not that great if your referring to paranoia then there's already quite a enough.

[JacobSavage]

Ahhh okay thank you Mod How would you deal with passive abilities? For example would a bulletproof miller be possible?

[JacobSavage]

And who would that be. to be Its


kwll > Sherlock > Konowa > Idiot in terms of scummyness

[JacobSavage]

that be should be a me

[JacobSavage]

So assuming your last statement is correct, then that leaves Kwll and Konowa (You're probably town, scum wouldnt put that much effort in and also wouldn't want to be seen changing their reads this late. Coupled with that bussing Slandar in LYLO would be a terrible move.)
Kwll is the more obvious target. He got very upset when I suggested I wanted him dead.Something that strikes of scum motivations.

Also he beat me in our chess game so he's obviously scum


VOTE: Kwll

Just out of interest for anyone:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p4493258

[JacobSavage]

Ahhh fair enough. That makes sense

[JacobSavage]

Yeah I must admit that I thought you were town up until it was me against you.I mean I thought Sherlock was scum over you at one point. The scum team did really well. the fact that it wasn't until D3 that any scum died kind its showed it.

[JacobSavage]

I know although I did work out that he posted more than he had to. you needed about 18 posts to avoid the prod.
And you should, your scum game is great. I mean some of the things you said were just so towny it was ridiculous. Its just unlucky that Sherlock got his guilty when he did.

[JacobSavage]

Actually Kwll did you have any powers?

[JacobSavage]

I hope to see you in the future kwll, maybe next time we can be on the same side
To be honest there is no one here i would never play again with. I want to also say congratulations to Nhammen for running this. It was really smoothly operated and its definatly a good set up?
Can I ask how do your modular roles work?

[JacobSavage]

That was quite funny, luckily nothing he said we hadn't worked out beforehand as that's alright. Was that why you went for Trollie?

[JacobSavage]

Horrah if Idiot or the Mod doesn't mind I'll post the Neighbourhood QT

[JacobSavage]

Neighbourhood

[JacobSavage]

I kind of missed you Thor, it wasn't the same without your witty insults...
And I find how funny it was that N1 is was a possible kill for scum and by the end of the game Kwll wanted me alive for the miss lynch...

[JacobSavage]

It does. It was sad

[JacobSavage]

At one point me and King (idiot sounds mean) thought you were scum....
To be honest town won through luck and Kings hammers

[JacobSavage]

I couldn't agree more, I was expecting Idiot to turn around at one point and be like lol I was scum all along and we just won. We had a lucky break basically.