Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Mafia - Game Over

[PeregrineV]

Vote: piguyn

What type?

[PeregrineV]

yeah, i don't like the random 3 person same voting thing in the beginning. =P

VOTE: Matirias it is!

Why?

It's the hat.

[PeregrineV]

Hello. Not invested in this game, so will be experimenting with minimalistic posting.

Mastin, I swear I've heard this from you before, and you were scum in that game. I've made a few passes at your mastin2 topics, but can't find it, but I will.

Vote: Mastin

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Natrisha

He is using inside knowledge to vote scum, best to follow him.

[PeregrineV]

To be specific, you're playing Matias against Mastin against deasvail against Doolittle.

Which posts are you claiming this occurred in?

[PeregrineV]

The one I quoted in 210

Sorry, I thought I say a post somewhere else that didn't make sense with your statement. But, now I can't find it.

[PeregrineV]

Oh good, this game isn't moving at a terrifying pace.

I'll read after I'm done watching Breaking Bad.

No spoilers please.

Vote: Majiffy

[PeregrineV]

I disagree with some of your reads but don't feel like arguing now.

Unvote.

[PeregrineV]

@majiffy, like your entrance was any better. =P it took you 4 posts until you actually posted something worthwhile. =P

I don't like the tone of any of your posts but you don't see me posting you as scum. =P

pretty much your whole play this game has been bad. you've played WAY better games.

Levi, do you have any links to your scum games please?

[PeregrineV]

@majiffy, like your entrance was any better. =P it took you 4 posts until you actually posted something worthwhile. =P

I don't like the tone of any of your posts but you don't see me posting you as scum. =P

pretty much your whole play this game has been bad. you've played WAY better games.

Levi, do you have any links to your scum games please?

I don't do links, I already told y'all the scum games that i've had and the ones that i've won. =P

How so Levi? What post can I look at to see that?

[PeregrineV]

btw PeregrineV's active lurking is starting to tick me off = =

on top of that I can't even see any direction in his play. IMO we should wagon him next

Does my posting once a day irritate you?

[PeregrineV]

@Mastin-

I get scumvibes from Mat. You have him as town. Discuss.

[PeregrineV]

Other head checking in. I'm going to try to get this read today, but I have other commitments so might not be until tomorrow,

unless syry yells at me again

Mastin - I think we're okay at it. Nacho was scum in the game that syry just modded and I caught him pretty early. But nacho is well nacho and I don't think I've ever felt really confident in a read on him until about day three unless he glows townie buttons and even then I line up for soft serve at the paranoia station. But, he thinks I'm easy to manipulate so we'll see!

When did you stop being good at reading nacho though?

I would like to encourage signing of each post. Like I think this one is Tammy, but it would help an old dude like me further down the line.

[PeregrineV]

@Mastin-

I get scumvibes from Mat. You have him as town. Discuss.

I have mat as town too, why didnt you ask me about him as well?

I have a strong enough townread on you that I have you more on Observe mode.
Mastin I want on Engage mode.

But we can still chat.

[PeregrineV]

@AGar: I highly doubt Levi will flip scum, js.

Those scum games he said he already gave would sure help by giving a scum baseline for him. (I have a town baseline already).

[PeregrineV]

Could you clarify that? I don't get your last post.

Sure. Levi was town in my games here:
Dark Souls Mafia
Timeshift Mafia
Pikmin Mafia

So, I feel like I can pick up on his town play.

I don't have any games he was scum in.

So I asked for them (323), he said he gave them but not the links (337), so I looked over his posts, but still can't find where he gave them (365), so now I'm encouraging you to pressure him about where this list is (375).

[PeregrineV]

it's that your posts have hardly anything in them. and even after reading all your posts I still can't tell what exactly you're trying to do

I am getting a lot of surface town reads. So, the ones I can I'm digging a little deeper. The ones I can't, I'm watching for now. And I want a Mastin read early so I can either lynch him, or listen to his arguments.

also the fact that you seem satisfied with just "once a day" seems really weird for me = =

It's a good minimum. It keeps me current with the thread, and if I miss weekends, which happens, I'm not too far behind.

[PeregrineV]

Great, and pretty sure I wasn't in that game.

Yeah okay maybe it was a shitty reaction test.

Let me ask you - are you trying to sort me or are you trying to lynch me?

You weren't in that game. But you're behaving in a manner consistent with the scum thought process I had during Open 480. When I see somebody thinking like scum-me, my first thought sure as hell isn't "Well, there's obvtown."

As for sort vs. lynch, I haven't decided yet.

Just want to note that you are stating you have a defined scum-mindset. I find this unusual because the scum mindset is to fake being a townie, and town does some absolutely crazy shit sometimes. If you mean "Hey, I do that as scum." that's a different story. But, that's not what you said.

Not sure where I'm really going with this, except that I sometimes generate townreads because I think a player has the same or similar thought processes. Here, you appear to be calling someone scum for having what you consider "scum thought processes".

[PeregrineV]

I want a Mastin read early so I can either lynch him, or listen to his arguments.

My words currently hold little weight. Don't listen to my arguments until I say to.

I meant my read

on

you, not

from

you. But, good to know you're reading.

[PeregrineV]

Just dropping by, but I haven't caught up on reading. Weekends are not good for me, so will be back later if I can, if not then Monday.

[PeregrineV]

10 pages back. Lots of work to do today, so I'll catch up slowly.

[PeregrineV]

OK, all caught up, for what it's worth.

Town

kanyeknowsbest

pieguyn

AGar

Empking

Pyrotechnics

Sakura Hana
DeasVail

talah

Scum

Belisarius

leviathan93

Matias

Svenskt Stål

Reserving judgement

DrDolittle
waynegg
Majiffy
NachoKoopa
ArcAngel9
mastin2
Kalimar
Natirasha

Bold reads are stronger.

Vote: Belisaurus

[PeregrineV]

OK, all caught up, for what it's worth.

Town

kanyeknowsbest - mostly vibes, and a lack of scumread on him

pieguyn

- actual scumhunting

AGar

- actual scumhunting
Empking- more like "not scum", but for an EmpKing read, that speaks volumes. This will become more refined as the game progresses.

Pyrotechnics

- Both heads have thier head in the game.
Sakura Hana- This was from memory, but early-page posting struck me as town
DeasVail - townvibes. This read will also refine itself.

talah

- obviously town

Scum

Belisarius

- lack of scumhunting, even to trying to find it on his own wagon. Play reminds me of scum-Beli from here.

leviathan93

- 406 + 365 +lack of response to any and all inquiries. Not his town game.

Matias

- Probably started with 12- questioning an obvious RVS vote? Gut, vibes, lack of improvement from that point.
Svenskt Stål - inherited. Before, unKiselike behavoir from Kise.

Reserving judgement

DrDolittle- more depth and detial expected.
waynegg- posting comes across as town, gut makes me put him here.
Majiffy- Refused to be burned again, so he's staying here until I get something strong one way or another
NachoKoopa- We'll see.
ArcAngel9- Mac stuff was not there, we'll see is Angel delivers.
mastin2- Experiment failure, but Walking Deadwas not your best work either. You'll talk, and when you do, I think I'll have a better grasp on scumMastin or townMastin.
Kalimar- replaced in Death's Diner and impressed. Missing that feeling so far this game.
Natirasha- see Kalimar, but play in general.

Bold reads are stronger.

Vote: Belisaurus

PV, talk to me. Explain please. (Preferably all, but at least scumreads.) Am listening.

Short and skinny added.

[PeregrineV]

I sincerly hope thats based on my predecessor and not my actions.

Would it be too obvious to point out that neither you nor your predecessor have any actions at all?

[PeregrineV]

Town

AGar

- actual scumhunting

Pyrotechnics

- Both heads have thier head in the game.
Sakura Hana- This was from memory, but early-page posting struck me as town

Scum

Belisarius

- lack of scumhunting, even to trying to find it on his own wagon. Play reminds me of scum-Beli from here.

leviathan93

- 406 + 365 +lack of response to any and all inquiries. Not his town game.

Reserving judgement

Kalimar- replaced in Death's Diner and impressed. Missing that feeling so far this game.
Natirasha- see Kalimar, but play in general.

Bold reads are stronger.

Vote: Belisaurus

Actual scumhunting not good towntell for vets; easily faked.(Particularly IF multiscum.)

Maybe, but they have to keep it up and are still subject to constant scrutiny. And I would argue the "easily faked" issue, because lots of time scum are caught by lack of scumhunting and faked logic.
As for multi-scum, true. But, that is relevant to mafia theory discussion, not to this game. DO you have reason to believe it's mutli-ball?

Heads don't seem

that

"into the game"; explain?

Interactions on relevant topics. I feel this strongly enough that is you feel evidence exists for scumPyro, I'll need posts & explanations.

Please help me w/ refining Sakura and point out townposting.

OK. Will probably be later, but I think they are there.

Beli looks to have plenty scumhunting.

Do elaborate.

How sure are you on levi?

Not super, but that's my inital feeling. He gave some scum games so might have a look at those later.

Why are these two not scum/town?

Because while not meeting my expectations is not a scumtell, it can become one. Do you think Kalimer=scum, Nat=town?

[PeregrineV]

nacho stop making posts that made me flip flop my read on u ty.

also pv i pretyt much completely and emphatically disagree w. the majority of your scumreads.

Then who are your scumreads?

[PeregrineV]

@ PeregrineV: What part of my play in DD impressed you? I think I had a net zero effect in that game.

@ Empking: What's logical about a purely random vote in a subset of three when statistically it's most likely to hit town? Also, prejudices is quite a strong word, can you expand on what you meant there?
For what it's worth, I don't actually have a problem with Sakura voting in a group of three because scum did this to her in the past - it's pattern seeking, albeit not very robust pattern seeking. This action could make sense from both alignments, so I'm not seeing what you are just on that one post.

@ pieguyn: I don't have a particularly strong opinion on Belisarius' vote for you. Only slight bug is that there's no follow up for it.

You came in with reads and the sources of those reads. You brought up Rifts reads, and since they where a NK, I assume you were looking to see who they had caught. You interacted with all of the players. Even if you were wrong, it was town.

Not seeing that so far this game. Why do you think that is?

[PeregrineV]

@Sakura- you better be right.

Vote: Svenskt Stål

[PeregrineV]

@Mod- Limited Access until Tuesday Oct 15.

[PeregrineV]

Day 1 - Vote Count #39

DrDolittle (0)

-

kanyeknowsbest (0)

-

Belisarius (0)

-

waynegg (0)

-

pieguyn (3)

- AGar, Empking, waynegg

AGar (1)

- Natirasha

PeregrineV (0)

-

leviathan93 (0)

-

Svenskt Stål (2)

- PeregrineV, mastin2

Empking (0)

-

Majiffy (1)

- leviathan93

Pyrotechnics (0)

-

Sakura Hana (1)

- Matias

NachoKoopa (1)

- kanyeknowsbest

DeasVail (1)

- Majiffy

Matias (0)

-

ArcAngel9 (0)

-

talah (1)

- Belisarius

Natirasha (0)

-

mastin2 (0)

-

Kalimar (8)

- talah, pieguyn, DeasVail, NachoKoopa, Svenskt Stål, Sakura Hana, Pyrotechnics, DrDolittle

No lynch (0)

-

Not voting (2)

- ArcAngel9, Kalimar

21 votes available
11 votes needed to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2013-10-18 12:44:27)

V/LA: PeregrineV (10/15), Svenskt Stål (10/16)

Alright, time to throw a spanner in the works of this wagon.
I can pretty much prove I'm town. I'm an x-shot DayVig.

I was contemplating waiting on this because I simply haven't had time to read this game properly. However, I've found mastin's push on me dodgy from the start and I've had a gut bad feeling there all game. I'm usually pretty good at detecting inauthentic pushes.

Avada Kevadra, fire and brimstone, death to all interlopers, etc. etc.

Kill: mastin2

I guess I'm a little confused here. You shot Mastin on gut to throw a spanner into your wagon, which Mastin was not a part of?

[PeregrineV]

pie claimed vig vig. Kalimar claimed 1-shot day vig.

I'm an x-shot DayVig.

Talk to me.

[PeregrineV]

Still on 42 in terms of reading, but skim conclusion is if Kalimar lives through today and the night, then he is leashed and only kills by direction.

[PeregrineV]

Requesting butt smacking.

Vote: ArcAngel

[PeregrineV]

I'm Miriallia Haw, I'm neighbors with Leviathan.

Not sure if that makes sense or not flavorwise, since i've never watched Gundam Seed, but I'll let people who know the flavor help me in the regards to whether this helps find out levi's alignment or not. Tho I don't think I need to explain I've been townreading him from the QT as I've hinted to that in many posts.

I figured this, but you've been protecting him at the mason level.

You better be right.

[PeregrineV]

I'm Miriallia Haw, I'm neighbors with Leviathan.

Not sure if that makes sense or not flavorwise, since i've never watched Gundam Seed, but I'll let people who know the flavor help me in the regards to whether this helps find out levi's alignment or not. Tho I don't think I need to explain I've been townreading him from the QT as I've hinted to that in many posts.

if she came out and claimed this then I confirm that we are neighbors as well.

Then step up your game. We can;t see the QT and you're coming across scummy as hell.

Is Sakura town?

[PeregrineV]

I'm Miriallia Haw, I'm neighbors with Leviathan.

Not sure if that makes sense or not flavorwise, since i've never watched Gundam Seed, but I'll let people who know the flavor help me in the regards to whether this helps find out levi's alignment or not. Tho I don't think I need to explain I've been townreading him from the QT as I've hinted to that in many posts.

if she came out and claimed this then I confirm that we are neighbors as well.

Then step up your game. We can;t see the QT and you're coming across scummy as hell.

Is Sakura town?

I have a huge town read on her regardless of the qt and the qt really backs it up. I really think this is a town on town neighborhood. unless she's way more deviant of a player than I've anticipated which currently I don't believe. so town it is.

So what are you saying in the QT that we are missing out here?

[PeregrineV]

Um, Wake, it's common for mods to give specific fake claims to scum players for the distinct purpose OF claiming.

In almost six years of playing I've never heard of something so stupid. Mods shouldn't give Scum something to work with when fake-claiming. That may be the case here but I doubt it. What I do know from my PM is that I have a very specific name, and a very specific suit/mode and, looking at it now, a ship I pilot. Looks like a damned red lion unicorn thing with two turrets on it. What a badass motherfucker that thing is.

Welcome to the game PeregrineV! You are

Solaire of Astora: Encoder

, member of the

Dark Souls mafia.

Solaire is a cheerful and extremely strong warrior who came to Lordran in search of his own sun. Throughout Solaire offers his assistance and often words of wisdom to the chosen undead as they trek though the world. Solaire is always on hand when he is needed the most, providing some jolly co-operation to take down some of the toughest aberrations in Lordran. There is speculation that Solaire is in fact the first born of Lord Gywn but if you were to ask this kind hearted Knight he would offer you no answer. He is just focused on finding his very own sunlight and providing all the help he can to others along the way.

• You are part of the Dark souls mafia with
  Empking
  and
  Human Destroyer
  
  
• Here is your mafia quicktopic. Feel free to post as much or as little as you like there.

• Active ability: Warrior of sunlight.
  
  + Each day you may attempt to blend in by voting with the rest of the town.
  
• Passive ability: Jolly co-operation!
  
  + While you live you and your team will be able to talk during the day as well as at night.
  + Should you ever die during the game the quick topic will be closed during the day.
  
• Your fake claim is
  Taurus demon
  and the following is your fake role pm:

Spoiler: Taurus demon fake claim

Welcome to the game PeregrineV! You are the

Taurus demon

, a member of the

Dark Souls town.

The Taurus demon is a large demon found in the undead burg. Something can be said of it's wit as it will stage an ambush along a very narrow bridge were it would be easy for it to knock it's prey off and to their deaths. The Taurus is a big early challenge to the undead who hunt the souls. It is seen as the first line of defense, turning away many would be warriors.

• Active ability: Ambush.
  
  +Each day you may attempt to weed out the invaders with your vote.
  
• You win when all of the mafia members are dead.
  
• Please PM your character name as confirmation
  
• Game thread is here

• You win when you and your buddies make up half the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.
  
• Please PM your character name as confirmation
  
• Game thread is here

[PeregrineV]

Would rather use Pie's killing as controlled vig. Let scum kill him, or lynch him further down the line.

Vote: DrDoolittle

PieKill: ArcAngel9 or Sven

[PeregrineV]

Would rather use Pie's killing as controlled vig. Let scum kill him, or lynch him further down the line.

Vote: DrDoolittle

PieKill: ArcAngel9 or Sven

you know you look extremely bad if either of those two turn up town right? even those three!

Well, if not DrD, then it'll probably be a No lynch.

And if Arc or Sven show up town, then fine, I'll look bad.

[PeregrineV]

No. We should not try to use the SK. We likely will not agree on a target. The SK, using common sense, would shoot the most town looking out of the targets and then claim it was an option. It is anti town to let a scum live.

Why would he shoot the most town looking out of the targets? And who looks more town out of ArcAngel and Sven?

[PeregrineV]

Well then let the SK kill whoever the fuck they want, if they want to win they have to take out mafia at some point and from experience they usually want to they them out BEFORE they take out town, and at that point we can just lynch him anyways, worst case scenario we lynch him BEFORE lylo is inminent. It's like... you arent even giving him a chance to shoot scum.

P-Edit: You didnt see the size of AA9 wagon before the SK claim?

LOL- since this is what will happen anyway. I think if Pie hits scum, we'll be more inclined to let him live another day, and he knows it. So he'll be motivated to shoot them, and they will block/kill/lynch him as much as they can.

[PeregrineV]

PV, Pie has more votes. You should move to the Pie wagon. Period.

Sakura, no I did not see the size of the wagon before the SK claim. When I saw Majiffy saying there was an SK claim, I read backwards to verify. Then I turned to the start of the game. I'm on about page 9.

PV, the SK cannot live against a town target. If he breaks the town's organization, he can then shoot just enough scum to where the town MUST keep him alive at the end. In a 1 town v 1 mafia v 1 SK, we would then give the SK the win because they were working with us the entire time. That would be his objective. Right now, shooting mafia only hastens the SK's death. The logical play if the SK's gambit works is to shoot town that only looks scummy. Eg: The playstyle lynch candidate.

If he shoots the scum we don't lynch, then we lynch him. He knows this, but would like to continue to the thrill of hunting scum (1881).

I'm ignoring the "while posting elsewhere" as it is a statement that cannot be refuted or denied without discussing ongoing games. The proper response is to prod AA9. Also, the post you quoted had 9 votes for AA9. It would not have made sense for an SK to claim at that point.

The most recent votecount has 7 v 7 for AA9 and Piegun. Your argument was very suggestive and poor. You get scum points for it.

Actually, it's acceptable, and a good point.
Subject: Discussion of Ongoing Mafia Games is Not Allowed

Discussion of Ongoing Mafia Games is Not Allowed

Discussions about Activity

Players may discuss activity in other games in a general sense, including counting how many games a player is alive in. However, this may not mention ANYTHING of substance.

OKAY:

"Zoraster is alive in 4 games and is posting in those games, but he hasn't posted here in 3 days.

"

NOT OKAY:

"Zoraster is alive in 4 games where he's posting lengthy posts. <The violation here is mentioning that the posts are LONG. This is a substantive statement.>

In addition, Post 2003 shows 7 for Pie and 3 for Angel, so perhaps you should recheck the VC you used.

[PeregrineV]

No. We should not try to use the SK. We likely will not agree on a target. The SK, using common sense, would shoot the most town looking out of the targets and then claim it was an option. It is anti town to let a scum live.

Why would he shoot the most town looking out of the targets? And who looks more town out of ArcAngel and Sven?

IAnd I didn't see an answer to these questions.

[PeregrineV]

If he is SK, chances are he's going to hit more town than scum being guided by an uninformed majority.

This is exactly the process by which town lynches scum. Are you going to press for a no lynch after Pie's death?

[PeregrineV]

Sven Stal is scum. AA9 is likely overwhelmed. That statement is not meant as alignment indicative.

Good news. If we don't lynch Pie today, and you still hate him tomorrow, you can shoot him.

And based on your other posts, are you voting Stal?

[PeregrineV]

This is exactly the process by which town lynches scum. Are you going to press for a no lynch after Pie's death?

Do you always press to lynch possible-not-scum and kill possible-not-scum whilst keeping claimed-scum alive? Or is this just an exception?

Actually, it depends on the circumstances.

Tammy was a dayvig SK one game, and we needed to keep her because we dictated her kill.
Somone else was a powerful SK in another game, but was slimy as shit so was killed swiftly.
I read pie as scumhunting early on, not hiding or coasting. Plus, it's day1, so getting a couple or anti-mafia shots off, as well as absorbing a possible NK/RB, is worth it at this point. He may not be able to win, but this early claim makes it a better chance for us to win.

[PeregrineV]

Moonlogic?

Then explain it to me. Why is it good to keep claimed scum alive when we have no idea what

factions

are in the game?

DV seems pretty town to me on my readthrough, so why would we lynch him Majiffy? The fact is we are not organized when we cannot even lynch claimed scum.

21 players with a claimed SK. 5 mafia is standard in 20 player game, so how many factions do you think there are?

[PeregrineV]

If you aren't voting Pie, refute my arguments. Immediately.

Gladly.

1) It's a very risky maneuver to claim SK as scum, because if for some reason your lynchpool is full of scum, or for some reason your only target is scum, you'd be found out, and if you're still alive after several days you'll be found out too.

2) It's more likely for an SK to claim Vig than Scum to claim Vig, since then scum cannot explain the lack of a second kill, while an SK will be the source of a second kill.

3) SK is a Neutral/Third Party role... NOT scum, scum HAVE to get rid of him as much as we do since he cant joint, but he can help town until scum undoubtedly NKs him.

4) Leaving a leashed SK alive maximizes our chances at killing scum per day due to having 2 kills a day, while scum STILL can only kill once a day.

5) Eventually if he's not dead when reaching LyLo he has to be lynched before then.

Expanding on #3 obviously if he doesnt follow our advice, we lynch him.

My only correction to this is 3 kills a day (Pie, Titus, Lynch).

[PeregrineV]

vote dv

ill accept the drd lynch over a pie lynch if literally no one else in this entire game wants to lynch dv :<

Seriously, this town can just go fuck themselves for jerking themselves to the levi - sakura scum mason claim.

It was neighbors.

[PeregrineV]

Refute the logic, Majiffy.

To a scum faction, any town is an optimal kill. Any kill that isn't their faction is optimal. Because it brings them closer to parity.

Let's clarify.
Will Pie ever win this game as SK?

If we direct the kill onto a factional scum, and SK claim IS factional scum, SK claim will claim roleblocked or any other number of reasons why the kill didn't go through.

So one less kill overnight. How is this bad?

If we direct the kill onto a factional scum, and the SK claim is SK, either the factional group will defend via roleblock or any other number of ways kills can be stopped, or kill the SK.

How is this bad? If they are RBing SK and Nking SK, they ain't RBing or NKing town.

So basically the best possible net result we can get is a dead SK

and every other option helps scum more than it helps town.

I agree with the bolded, now explain how the two happenings above help scum.

[PeregrineV]

And if there are any scum redirectors or busdrivers we're giving scum two kills by keeping him alive.

exactly why I wanted more choicse for WIFOM

That's only if there are multiple factions. Are you confirming multiple factions?

lol wow stop reaching

multiball seems like a pretty decent assumption that's all

Who are you scumreads?
And nullreads?

[PeregrineV]

Let's clarify.
Will Pie ever win this game as SK?

No. Is that even relevant to what I'm arguing?

You trying to convince me to lynch Pie. Aside from staing the obvious, what's the point of your first sentence?
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p5402280

So one less kill overnight. How is this bad?

Busdriver? Redirector? Absorber?

Yes, we should fear these possible roles.

How is this bad? If they are RBing SK and Nking SK, they ain't RBing or NKing town.

Yes lets argue in favor of a plan because there's a possibility we

won't

be screwing ourselves!

Lost me with this.

I agree with the bolded, now explain how the two happenings above help scum.

All other possibilities result in dead townies ergo help scum reach parity faster.

You mean, the game, designed with this in mind, will play out, but instead of the single SK trying to catch scum, we have the whole town providing input?
Color me "not scared of this outcome."

[PeregrineV]

A town-chained SK popping off townies is not a threat to a scum faction, it's a help.

it functions just like an extra lynch

Except scum can't do anything to stop a lynch.

My point is that had Pie not claimed, and shot who he thought was scum, then the game was exactly balanced for that possibility.
Now, we are directing Pie to shoot scummier players, which, by definition of not being included in the game design, gives the benefit to town.

[PeregrineV]

Pie did as asked.

Yes, it's unfortunate AA9 was town. But as for a good vig shot? It still was.

But, to honor her fallen memory, all Pie voters can comb AA9's posts, find her scumreads, and we will go lynch them.

Until then, I only left Levi alone because Sakura asked. But, what' she's asking for now feels so much better.

Vote: Levi

[PeregrineV]

that'd be a good idea but I don't even think she had any scumreads ;w;

That was kind of my point but would rather the whiners busy themselves then pushing your lynch today.

[PeregrineV]

The lack of more than one NK last night could be for multiple things. Since an RB didn't declare a target, then we can hope for a doc, or that mafia tried to NK Pie and he's got some BP protection.

And if that's the case (and even if not), scum would rather see the SK lynched than taking him out themselves. Why would they want to waste one of their plays which move them towards their wincon when they can use the town's lynch to do so?

So, I see

A WHOLE LOT

more scum motivation to push Pie's lynch hardcore for scum than I see for town. We know we're fighting an uphill battle, but frankly a mislynch and NK is normal mafia, so I don't even feel we are behind. As a matter of fact, we are actually ahead because we caught the SK, and they are usually pains in the asses to find and catch.

And we are doubly ahead, since the SK is acting as the town vig and cleaning up the fringes. Since there will be scum in the fringes, this will work.

With that said, aside from Wake and Majiffy pushing the Pie lynch, there are going to be the "silent" partners. They are going for the SK lynch lynch because hey, it ain't them, but they will also not risk all the scumteam on pushing for the SK lynch.

So, first I'll look at that and the other dissolving wagons of day1 and day2.

[PeregrineV]

And what's the defense of Levi again?

His neighbor comes in the thread calling him scum and he says nothing?

That is in no way a town reaction.

[PeregrineV]

And what's the defense of Levi again?

His neighbor comes in the thread calling him scum and he says nothing?

That is in no way a town reaction.

sorry for being lazy but can you link this

Well I just skimmed, and I think Nacho might be scum, also thinking my neighborhood partner might be scum considering he almost ignored me all night.

be back when my V/LA is over.

There's like 0 chance scum and pie crosskilled on a regular scenario, there's no reason for scum to kill AA9 unless they wanted to try to crosskill with pie, however, they didn't know exactly who would pie kill i think? unless we/he made it too obvious.

Now, on my neighborhood I commented on the flip making me shift towards Nacho and my partner stayed silent for almost all night, and he only replied when I posted my V/LA on the nighborhood why would he avoid talking in the nighborhood, makes me wonder wether he has another QT, like... a scum QT. I'd think a town neighbor would be more likely to share his opinions with their partner in case either is NK'd.

Also after Noon my time (in 2 hours) im gonna be completely V/LA until Monday, until then it's just LA.

People on my lynch pool today in order of want most, to want least.

leviathan, Nacho, pieguy.

If we leash pieguy again I want him to NK levi if we dont lynch him. At this point, i could care less if we lynch pie or not, but I want that WIFOM gone.

Implication, is Nacho your neighbor Sakura?

No, it's Levi.

I'm suspecting Nacho because of the sudden push on DrD shifting from AA9 yesterday and DrD flipped town, before Nacho pushed him yesterday DrD was suspecting Nacho.

I'm suspecting levi because of him going MIA during the Night on our Neighborhood.

[PeregrineV]

And what's the defense of Levi again?

His neighbor comes in the thread calling him scum and he says nothing?

That is in no way a town reaction.

sorry for being lazy but can you link this

And in the interest of fair and balanced reporting, Levi response: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p5413916

[PeregrineV]

i can buy levi´s explanation, why cant you?

Same reason I don't often buy it when a town claims PR but "forgets" thier action. It happens, but town not using what they have is extra damaging. Levi was scummy day1, and his answer coming in looks like he doesn't care all that much.

[PeregrineV]

The lack of more than one NK last night could be for multiple things. Since an RB didn't declare a target, then we can hope for a doc, or that mafia tried to NK Pie and he's got some BP protection.

And if that's the case (and even if not), scum would rather see the SK lynched than taking him out themselves. Why would they want to waste one of their plays which move them towards their wincon when they can use the town's lynch to do so?

So, I see

A WHOLE LOT

more scum motivation to push Pie's lynch hardcore for scum than I see for town. We know we're fighting an uphill battle, but frankly a mislynch and NK is normal mafia, so I don't even feel we are behind. As a matter of fact, we are actually ahead because we caught the SK, and they are usually pains in the asses to find and catch.

And we are doubly ahead, since the SK is acting as the town vig and cleaning up the fringes. Since there will be scum in the fringes, this will work.

With that said, aside from Wake and Majiffy pushing the Pie lynch, there are going to be the "silent" partners. They are going for the SK lynch lynch because hey, it ain't them, but they will also not risk all the scumteam on pushing for the SK lynch.

So, first I'll look at that and the other dissolving wagons of day1 and day2.

I like this.

UNVOTE:

But we need to have a list by end of day, posted by someone that is town in almost everyones eyes, that pie has to follow.

This is one of the few times I've actually gotten angry in a game.

I am the Town Tracker, and I am perceived by more than a few as Town.

If I cannot get enough leverage to lynch the supposed Serial Killer, then I should be the one to control him. I already foresee select suspects disagreeing with it. Let me control him, and I will make sure we have more-than-made-up our minds to use him. We also need to decide when we should lynch him, too.

OK, then besides you wanting to the lynch the SK as the anti-Christ, do you think there is any scum on his wagon?

[PeregrineV]

Sakura

, Pie's response was self preservationist because she pretty much said to me, "I will

shoot

within one target but I would rather have a pool so I can always hit town."

Wake

? You don't trust the SK at all but you trust him enough to be the one to leash him. What the fuck? Either you trust him

or

you don't.

Stal's wagon sucks sorry.

Nati

is a much better wagon if you are not in favor of leashing the SK. Nati votes anyone but confscum. She has to reaction test others but knows the SK is fine without reaction testing.

No one

should believe that.

I will catch up on the rest later.

Don't misunderstand.

I want the SK dead, but if I can't because you won't let me, then aloow me to shackle him and keep a damned good eye on him. I don't trust him, but can't get him lynched so easily with bad-Town, so let me have him as my prisoner.

Does this mean you intend to track him?

[PeregrineV]

i can buy levi´s explanation, why cant you?

Same reason I don't often buy it when a town claims PR but "forgets" thier action. It happens, but town not using what they have is extra damaging. Levi was scummy day1, and his answer coming in looks like he doesn't care all that much.

understood. but why cant he just have been busy?

That's what he said. Do you believe him?

[PeregrineV]

pedit then get back on the wagon Sven and stop derping out!

exactly why sven is scum :>

First Majiffy is scum for pushing you (catching you out actually)

Then I am (and now you're trying to appeal to me)

Then Titus is (even though that's the most conftown slot in the game)

Then Sven is

You know what? I see a pattern here.

@Wayne- just wanted to let you know that I think Pie is the SK. I don't see a point to your arguing with him about whatever it is your arguing about, and am starting to think it's become your substitute for sucmhunting.
In case I can't find your old reads list, can you update who you think is scum and who you think is town?

[PeregrineV]

And you're wrong. You do t let known scum live. It's bad logic. We let known scum live yesterday and lynched town now we're down 3 town to no scum with known scum on D1. You're either stupid or scum to think it's not beneficial to lynch known scum. I don't think you're stupid...

And you don't get to state that everyone sees him as scum and then turn around and differentiate him being SK. you don't get to sit that fence. And when he flips factional scum, whatcha gonna say then?

You are saying that Pie is mafiascum not SK.

And you think that the mislynch yesterday was to avoid Pie being lynched.

Examine the Doolittle wagon and find all of Pie's teammates and point them out to us.

Day 1 - Vote Count #65

DrDolittle (11)

- Sakura Hana, Natirasha, leviathan93, pieguyn, talah, Belisarius, PeregrineV, NachoKoopa, kanyeknowsbest, Titus, Pyrotechnics

pieguyn (7)

- Empking, Majiffy, AGar, waynegg, DrDolittle, ArcAngel9, Wake88
[

Empking (1)

- DeasVail

ArcAngel9 (1)

- Svenskt Stål

Not voting (0)

-

[PeregrineV]

That makes total sense.

In any game town will suspect townies

Pie, if scum, knows who is not on his scum team

Pie picks a "town friendly" target

Pie kills the "town friendly" target

Nothing of this should make you think that pie is town friendly

Pie is 100% not town and is likely scum, he needs to die for town to win.

Damn that Pie. He killed a town friendly target.

Day 1 - Vote Count #65

ArcAngel9 (1)

- Svenskt Stål

[PeregrineV]

I, too, am considering replacing out.

Kdub's game is wonderful. However, noob/bad/stupid "Town," who keep making excuses to not lynch the supposed SK, is beyong aggravating. Not kdub's fault. They'll likely lynch another Townie, and another Townie will likely get killed by SK.

One should never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Who are the other non-Pie scum?

[PeregrineV]

At this point all of the D2 discussion is "Yuh-uh"ing and "Nuh-uh"ing about lynching pie and abso-fucking-lutely nothing is happening that might catch scum instead.

This distraction from scumhunting needs to be eliminated.

VOTE: pie

So the car is at fault, not the drivers?

[PeregrineV]

Sheep me on this guys, this is the guy along with waynegg that have been causing all this noise in the thread when the SK has already been leashed by us, once he's dead we will have glorious days of scumhunting with all that noise gone.

Also FoSing: Sven, Waynegg and Wake.

P-Edit: I trust pie because he's bound to us.

Your giving a list of scumreads? How can you do such a thing when we have an SK?



Yes, you, in the back.

"She's town!"

That is correct!

[PeregrineV]

peregrinev,

if you want to call me out on something you point to the fact that i asked everyone to unvote pie... like 5 pages ago

I'm just reading up. if I happen to point out something you said back when you said it, the good news is you still said it.

The even better news would be if you have new information and/or new opinions.

But, I have to read them first.

[PeregrineV]

You know we would have found scum already if you pulled your heads out of your asses and started scumhunting instead of trying to get a leashed SK lynched.

You know I already found scum if you'd pull your head out of your ass and vote it.

Unless you think the game is 20 town vs 1 sK, you still got work to do.

[PeregrineV]

Majiffy is the most town looking of Wake/Stal/Jiffy. A stal or Wake wagon is more likely. Given Pie is at L minus 1, you will need a fast wagon.

Nati, why kill one of the people on the wagon if Pie is the SK? Woyldn't those likely be null for reasons we have already discussed?

Catching the SK earns you no town credit in the game of mafia.

What you do afterwards is where it's at. I see 3 more pages to read. Let's see if Majiffy tries to look for mafia by the time I reach the last one.

[PeregrineV]

Nati, why kill one of the people on the wagon if Pie is the SK? Woyldn't those likely be null for reasons we have already discussed?

It is trying to figure out who has the

least

reason to vote for pie. Empking silently hopped on the wagon, I think he's mostly using it as an excuse to not contribute more than he was. Svenskt is, well, look at him.

Beli falls into that category too.

[PeregrineV]

lol. haha "yeah, I agree" =) well, i pretty much lost all my "real" reads on people due to this stupid argument over Pie which is why I want him dead already so I can finally think. at that point I was just agreeing with everything you said because it seemed reasonable to me. I always went back and checked what you meant and if you were correct to feel the way you were and for the most part you were.

So, with more people posting and putting information out there, your ability to read people based on what they post has just vanished?

[PeregrineV]

scum actually does not, they only have to reach parity

You might have a point. What's the sucm wincon again?

[PeregrineV]

PV, point ou the scum is fair. Why do you assume All of Pie's hypothetical scumbuddies didn't bus? That's a neon flag. I would expect one or two on the Pie wagon. Point out all of the scum is intellectually unfair.

My point is more that I disagree that Pie is mafia.

Wayne thinks Pie is mafia, but has done nothing to "use" that knowledge to find out which of Pie's buddies were voting him or voting Dolittle.

That makes me lean towards the fact he doesn't think that, but switched to the "Pie is mafia" argument because the "Pie is SK" argument didn't work.

[PeregrineV]

Also to answer your question directed towards wayne; COUNTERWAGON: yourself, one of {Nati/Sakura}, levi // BUSSING: {Empking/Wake} // OFF: DV

Rather than argue about some of your logic, instead I'm taking this and using it.

OK, I will argue.

You think Wake, whom you are using as the source for the validity of your claim in the same post, is bussing Pie on day1?

You could please to explain that.

Meanwhile,

Majiffy vote for vig pool is EmpKing, Levi, DV.

(I disagree with the DV read, the Wake read is contradictory, I super strongly disagree witht eh Nati, Sakura read, and I'm not scum).

[PeregrineV]

...as Non-consecutive Town Tracker, my goal is to see Scum dead. We have a player who claimed Serial Killer. He may be Mafia masquerading as SK, and I've seen riskier gambits during my time in Mafia. The extreme division between Town over the fate of the SK is unhealthy, and detracts us from Scumhunting. We should lynch the SK, then calm don and regroup our thoughts, and get back to the hunt. Tonight I'm dead in the water without my ability; there's the chance Scum will kill me tonight, and if not, likely on Night 3. It's really tough to form reads on people with this disturbing SK business, and more than a handful of people are being super-suspicious in their own ways. They can't all be conspicuous Scum, so likely there's some wrong-headed Townies in the mix. COmbined with work and 9 other games going on, it's tough to allocate time here... and this game gets priority over others, lol.

Guess I just wanted my fix of playing Mafia before I starting doing what I've been doing for years (on Nov 3rd): hosting games.

...I get frustrated like every other human, and act badly during those times. I apologize for that, and I'll try to bolster my patience and bite my tongue. Try.

tl;dr.

If you want me to buy that Kdub gave a

Mafia faction player a fakeclaim of vig, complete with flavor,

then show me where that has been done in at least 10 other MS games.
Otherwise, while you have a pot to piss in, it is currently overflowing, so your piss makes no difference.

[PeregrineV]

Majiffy's 1-shot watcher tho.

And that doesnt mean he can't be scum.

Talah one-shot tracker?

Majiffy one-shot watcher?

Wake Odd night whatever, even night the other?

I can see that as a potential set-up, so leaving it as null at this point.

[PeregrineV]

If you want me to buy that Kdub gave a

Mafia faction player a fakeclaim of vig, complete with flavor,

then show me where that has been done in at least 10 other MS games.
Otherwise, while you have a pot to piss in, it is currently overflowing, so your piss makes no difference.

That's a bullshit claim of proficiency. Show me in 10 other MS games where Kdub has given any single specific PR fakeclaim to scum complete with flavor.

Kdub doesn't have to be the mod.

Any 10 MS games by any mods. Any size too.

[PeregrineV]

i wanna lynch wake.

Wake can PR even other night.

Who do you want the SK to shoot?

[PeregrineV]

Majiffy vote for vig pool is EmpKing, Levi, DV.

[PeregrineV]

For the vig pool, would prefer-

EmpKing
Beli
Levi

Wake and Sven should be removed from the vig pool.

A town PR will give info or be shot by scum. Sven will either prove himself town or swing by the neck until dead.

Honorary mention (let's discuss more):
Pyro
Nacho
Agar

[PeregrineV]

@DV- Who, me?

[PeregrineV]

K

[PeregrineV]

I want someone(preferably kanye or Peregrine) to sell me on Nacho-scum. Empking definitely needs rope though.

I'm looking at that myself. He has 20 more posts than me, but for the life of me I can't recall having an opinion on him nor any of his opinions.

Can you, without looking back?

[PeregrineV]

Pretty sure Majiffy hasn't either and you're misrepping him the same way, or did I miss something?

He answered a question which I asked you.

His answer indicated who he thought was scum.

I took out the obvtown, leaving him with 3. He can correct it at any time.

[PeregrineV]

Why We Should Lynch the Serial Killer

1) It is in Town's win condition to kill Scum.
2) Town does not need help from Scum.
3) The existence of claimed SK has caused much division and drama.
4) Claimed SK can hit and kill Townies at Night.
5) It has done so last Night.
6) We can end up lynching Townies over SK.
7) Game does not say if dead Townies has PRs; we could have lost PRs.
8) Claimed SK could be Mafia Goon.
9) If fakeclaiming Goon, it could be using fakeclaim material provided by mod.
10) Two Townies with possible PRs have already been lost.
11) Another Town (PR?) can be lynched/Shot before it.
12) It could kill Cop, Doc, Tracker, Watcher, Neighbor, etc.
13) Town is hopelessly divided over its fate.

Your scum-list includes Titus, Sakura, Natrisha, and yourself. Given those reads, and your obsession/fixation/tunnleing on the SK, I'm starting to wonder if you are actually town.

[PeregrineV]

PV, would you consider voting for Pie today?

Not really. If you read his early posts, he was scumhunting more than most of the people voting him.

[PeregrineV]

I am aware. The SK has to kill everyone so the SKs ISO should have scumhunting.

Do you trust Pie not to kill town if given the option?

The goal is for us to give him options that are scum. I trust he will shoot within those options.

[PeregrineV]

Ok. Then I guess I am not persuading you. Why do you trust Pie? If town is too far ahead, I fear the backstab.

You will need to coalesce on a wagon if your goal is to use the SK. If people are frustrated with the day, they'll vote Pie.

He can't really backstab, as he has to be lynched, it's just when not if.

Might move to EmpKing, but with 17 days until deadline I don't see a need to quicklynch. Especially since we don't have vig targets (aka scumreads) from everyone.

[PeregrineV]

@Titus- Your Wake scumread is based on what? Did you read his claim?

[PeregrineV]

Of course my opinion doesn't speak for the majority. However, unless there is a magical guilty on Sakura, I don't see anyone but you voting Sakura ever. She is taking initative and leading. It is pretty obvious she is the town leader.

If my saying something spoke for the majority, Pie would be dead. I can state the obvious. Stop the mudslining. You are getting more on yourself han me.

If you are searching, why aren't ou asking more questions pf players trying to sort them?


Now, I am the first to ask that. Stal copied and now you.

Point out exactly where the mudslinging is, because I'm getting a pretty strong sense that you're fabricating BS right now.

I, too, have spear-headed an endeavor to shackle and control the Serial Killer. Also, I have taken more than enough initiative. You may think she is the Town leader, but I disagree vehemently with

any

notion of

anyone

being a Town leader, because that, too, causes controversy.

Your constant questions meant to shake my attention from lynching the SK is more than aggravating, Titus. I will not refuse to accomplish my win condition, and will continue trying to either lynch or shackle the SK even if it gets me lynched. Should you do as I expect and you two succeed in a wagon against me, you will both have signed your death warrants once I flip as the Tracker/pilot of the LaGOWE.

It's so confounding. The more Townies and more Days we have, PLUS the death of the SK, gives us a hell of a lot more leverage in favor of a Town win. If we keep up with this SK nonsense we'll likely burn even more Townies and thus more Days to work with. Each Day is worth OVER 15 real-life days!! Lynching Dr. DoLittle over SK and losing Town AA9 has cost us at least 30 days to work with.

Pie did as asked.

Yes, it's unfortunate AA9 was town. But as for a good vig shot? It still was.

But, to honor her fallen memory, all Pie voters can comb AA9's posts, find her scumreads, and we will go lynch them.

OK, you can leave yourself in the vig pool. Your anti-town attitude has clearly shown through. And you and EmpKing continue to wail about ArcAngel being shot. Well, at this point you are providing the same amount of additional content (zero) while spending every post screaming the same thing over and over again.

And if you didn't know, Titus has claimed vig also. Perhaps you should rant about he is the 2nd SK and should also be lynched.

Or you could beg her to shoot Pie and get it all over with.

But you haven't done any of that.

[PeregrineV]

I, too, have spear-headed an endeavor to shackle and control the Serial Killer. Also, I have taken more than enough initiative. You may think she is the Town leader, but I disagree vehemently with any notion of anyone being a Town leader, because that, too, causes controversy.

This is already done. Pie thinks so, town thinks so, so it's done.

Move on.

[PeregrineV]

Which part of my post were you responding to, Peregrine?

The SK is doing as requested. He shot as requested last night. I don't see a reason for him not to do so tonight.

[PeregrineV]

The reason I'm upset about AA9 being shot is because we lost a Townie, and regardless of what your drama is with AA9, all Townies are important because numbers are important. You go ahead and debate me on this.

OK, I will. Chat time go.

We know we are not all townies by the definition of the game of mafia.

How do you locate the townies that you want to keep?

[PeregrineV]

But, PV

he could be groupscum

!!!!

Hmmm. I'll think on this. I think I'll have clearer thoughts on day3.

[PeregrineV]

Which part of my post were you responding to, Peregrine?

The SK is doing as requested. He shot as requested last night. I don't see a reason for him not to do so tonight.

But, PV

he could be groupscum

!!!!

And now I'm going to deal with you two.

Do you deny the possibility that pie could be Goon fake-claiming helpful SK? I've seen some incredibly sneaky BS in my experience, so I'm not taking anything off my table just yet.

He could be. If that is the case, you now believe that scum wanted AA dead just as much as town did, and that rather than kill off a town player that could be effective, they instead stuffed all their desire to win in a hole to instead fully support Goon-Pie's bid for fake SK.

I want him dead, but if that won't happen I'll be the one to control him.

You may say this, but it doesn't make it true. You have no more power over him that the rest of us. Your "lynch pool" is just collecting our input. He'll look at the 3 scummiest players, shoot one, and then based on night actions, we decide tomorrow if he stays another day or dies.

Adjacently, I'll be the one to contend and observe people's intentions as they try to maneuver and manipulate who gets put into the pool and shot.

But, you haven't done this. Like at all.
I want to see you pressure the non-contributing players as much as you are pushing to lynch the SK.

Pie could be groupscum. At least you two should admit the possibility.

I did mention this, here:

If you want me to buy a Mafia faction player a fakeclaim of vig, complete with flavor, then show me where that has been done in at least 10 other MS games.

[PeregrineV]

We know we are not all townies by the definition of the game of mafia.

Wrong. Everybody is part of the town, even Mafia, by the definition. Ergo every person could be reasonably assumed to be townies. They just may be of an opposing alignment to you.

TLDR don't pull mafia theory/definitions out of your bum!

OK.

Spoiler: Definition for Wayne only

Townie is defined as a player with a town win condition. Town, as the collective noun, is defined as all players in the game. Townie does not mean all members of the town. If you wish townies to mean all members of the town, you may instead use the words "town members".

[PeregrineV]

The reason I'm upset about AA9 being shot is because we lost a Townie, and regardless of what your drama is with AA9, all Townies are important because numbers are important. You go ahead and debate me on this.

OK, I will. Chat time go.

We know we are not all townies by the definition of the game of mafia.

How do you locate the townies that you want to keep?

Wrong response.

We DON'T know exactly who is who, but when we have claimed Scum, we lynch that person instead of someone who may be Town/TownPR.

Let's focus.

The question was, "How do you locate the members of the town with the town win condition from amoung all the members of the town?"

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, I mean if there continue to be single NKs he might be fakeclaiming , but at the moment I find it more likely scum ran afoul a BP or a doctor.

It's a much higher probability that Pie is lying. Roughly 55% chance of that vs a little less than 6% that mafia was somehow blocked. Play the numbers. Math doesn't lie.

Mathematically,
So you want a day off? Let’s take a look at what you are asking for!
There are 365 days this year.
There are 52 weeks per year in which you already have 2 days off per week, leaving 261 days available for work.
Since you spend 16 hours each day away from work, you have used up 170 days, leaving only 91 days available.
You spend 30 minutes each day on coffee break. That accounts for 23 days each year, leaving only 68 days available.
With a one hour lunch period each day, you have used up another 46 days, leaving only 22 days available for work.
You normally spend 2 days per year on sick leave. This leaves you only 20 days available for work.
We are off for 5 holidays per year, so your available working time is down to 15 days.
We generously give you 14 days vacation per year which leaves only one day available for work and I’ll be damned if you’re going to take that day off!

[PeregrineV]

do I have to read the last 10 pages or can I be lazy

Nah, just update your latest reads list. And don't claim anything.

[PeregrineV]

PV, are you fine with lynching Empking?

Yes, unless he gives more than he has. Then we'll see.

[PeregrineV]

So I'm Mayura Labatt and I pilot the M1 Astray.

Town aligned and only a suit ability which is 1-Shot Flight Rotor Shrike.

In night phases I can target another player and I'll be told if that player currently has the ability to kill another player (if successful).

Win with at least one townie, etc.

So that's kind of a modified gunsmith and has me trying to wrap my brain around its relationship with x-shot killing roles. Or odd/even killing roles. Because of the inclusion of

currently

.

Anyway, I still most likely won't use this tonight. We'll see.

ed: Titus I claimed in the first 10 seconds of Day 1 because I remembered this as tracker and thought it was a pretty weak PR and my best bet was to force scum to waste an NK on me (among other considerations). When I checked back later I was hesitant about actually clarifying because tracking, which might get a lucky hit on one player if they perform an action, is a different proposition from a gunsmith who has what - five times the chance?
So my main concerns now are redirection which would waste the one shot, and if I get jailkept and make the shot does it use it up or do I get a second chance. I haven't asked dub about that but will do before the end of Night. Not that I'd make the shot tonight anyway.

Going to assume you did not use it yet?

[PeregrineV]

So I'm Mayura Labatt and I pilot the M1 Astray.

Town aligned and only a suit ability which is 1-Shot Flight Rotor Shrike.

In night phases I can target another player and I'll be told if that player currently has the ability to kill another player (if successful).

Win with at least one townie, etc.

So that's kind of a modified gunsmith and has me trying to wrap my brain around its relationship with x-shot killing roles. Or odd/even killing roles. Because of the inclusion of

currently

.

Anyway, I still most likely won't use this tonight. We'll see.

ed: Titus I claimed in the first 10 seconds of Day 1 because I remembered this as tracker and thought it was a pretty weak PR and my best bet was to force scum to waste an NK on me (among other considerations). When I checked back later I was hesitant about actually clarifying because tracking, which might get a lucky hit on one player if they perform an action, is a different proposition from a gunsmith who has what - five times the chance?
So my main concerns now are redirection which would waste the one shot, and if I get jailkept and make the shot does it use it up or do I get a second chance. I haven't asked dub about that but will do before the end of Night. Not that I'd make the shot tonight anyway.

Going to assume you did not use it yet?

NM.

If/when you use it, don't bother checking Pie or Titus.


Do check with the mod, and paraphrasing his response, ask him which roles from the wiki would return a "positive" to your investigation.

[PeregrineV]

Wake, Pyro has essentially shown us that Pie is the SK and not groupscum. Please don't use the possibility of him being groupscum to support your arguments.

I also don't see much point in waiting for a lynch at this stage except for getting a claim/anything else that's obvious.

My reads are looking something like this:

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

Go with null in the middle, and I could approve this almost exactly.

[PeregrineV]

Is there any chance Natirasha that I can convince you to lynch Pie?

Lynch Empking with me today and I'll lynch pie tomorrow. Deal?

So lynch another town today for a scum that'll definitely be lynched tomorrow anyhow when only one kill pops up from the night...yeah...pass. Opposite order.

Why is EmpKing town?

[PeregrineV]

The reason I'm upset about AA9 being shot is because we lost a Townie, and regardless of what your drama is with AA9, all Townies are important because numbers are important. You go ahead and debate me on this.

OK, I will. Chat time go.

We know we are not all townies by the definition of the game of mafia.

How do you locate the townies that you want to keep?

Wrong response.

We DON'T know exactly who is who, but when we have claimed Scum, we lynch that person instead of someone who may be Town/TownPR.

Let's focus.

The question was, "How do you locate the members of the town with the town win condition from amoung all the members of the town?"

@Wake:
How do you locate the members of the town with the town win condition from amoung all the members of the town?

[PeregrineV]

It's simple.

Wake and wayne already know he's town.

But I want them to tell me why. If they want to say they are masons with him, then fine.

[PeregrineV]

Well, Sakura is manipulative Scum based on her deliberate feigning of ignorance. Yet again, Sakura, a motivation for Scum to join the AA9 wagon is because it seemed to be an easy lynch according to general opinion (not mine).

Natirasha, if Empking flips Scum, then ok. Only pie is confScum, and everyone else is an unknown.

Titus, it sure as hell doesn't sound like you want him lynched based on your constant attacks and distractions towards those who want pie LYNCHED. If you want him lynched so badly, put your feet to the fire and actually show some damned conviction about it.

Peregrine, please paraphrase your question because I don't know what the hell you're asking me.

In general,

When playing the game of mafia, how do you locate the members of the town with the town win condition from amoung all the members of the town?

What method do you use to determine whether a player is town or mafia?

[PeregrineV]

Shoot: Beli or Levi

I'll give EmpKing until in the morning (~10 hours to claim).

[PeregrineV]

{Levi, Sven, wayne, Wake}

Not Wake. If he's a PR scum will take care of that, or we will rope him during the day.

wayne- meh

Beli should be there.

pedit- you mean inside?

[PeregrineV]

is this how insane that game is that people are forgetting stuff like that

877 938 941

Lack of followup.

[PeregrineV]

I can read both of your posts, and Titus is not speaking in code or being unlcear. Continuing to not understand the simple questions I think it some sort of crappy new scum trait that is hitting the site.

Vote: Sven

Am I giving EmpKing more time to claim, or do we end the day?

[PeregrineV]

As much as I want to say end it, Levi should get 24 hours from your intent post.

Pere, can you make a list similar to what Stal and I did. Do you think Wake is town?

Not sure what his list is, but I'm pretty onbboard with DV's: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p5423707

I think Wake, based on role and obstinateness, can be town, but his diametrically opposed town/scum reads and his obsession with lynching SK really does smack of frustrated scum that wasted their shot against him last night and don't want to possibly waste another.

I would rather scum shoot him, or the cop investigate him, or wait and see what he does tomorrrow (day 3).

[PeregrineV]

Pere, you are in my place. Shoot or no shoot. Why? Who?

Wayne, as a general rule I agree. That suggests Talah/Wake scum. I don't think Empking's wagon was easy though. Shouting doesn't make your point more effective.

Shoot. Or not.

Scum doesn't want town PRs around. X-shots become confirmed town when they run out, and scum don't want them around either. With that said, they will kill you for getting close to them before any of the other reasons.

You should shoot so that town gets to use the shot before you are killed.
You should not shoot tonight because you might be roleblocked. (and of course check with the mod- does being blocked use up your shot Y/N?)

Who?
Since we are collectively giving a list, I recommend you shoot a player you suspect is scum, but will probably never get lynched because they appear "just town enough". That will keep scum guessing.

[PeregrineV]

You theoretically may have had the ability to neuter the SK an you didn't ask. What the fuck?

There's many things wrong with the claim, and this is one of them. It actually sounds like a scum ability that was given to counter the SK, but they decided to save it and lynch him instead.

[PeregrineV]

Brief stop before work, but did we determine what happened to Titus shot last night?

[PeregrineV]

Also want to hear from Especially the Lies about Levi read from QT, and results of QT activity last night.

[PeregrineV]

I saw three claims for coordinators. Are those all of them, or do we have more? And is there any natural claims?

Would especially like to hear from the "linked" couple if they have that in their PMs.

[PeregrineV]

Sorry about being away for a while guys.

I'm sorry about not joining you on Sakura, talah. I actually forgot about it, but I'd rather not move off Majiffy at this time.

Nacho, does Mac ever not do this? I'm not really up to trying to find my past games with him right now, but this doesn't deviate from my general impression of him.

~~

Townreads:

kanyeknowsbest
Belisarius
waynegg
AGar
leviathan93
talah
Natirasha

mastin2

Town with reservations:

DrDolittle

Pieguyn

PeregrineV

NachoKoopa
Wake88

Leftover:

Sven

Empking

Majiffy
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana

AA9

Titus

~~

I'm worried about the leftover group being so small, but I feel pretty good about the townreads, and I think I'm actually being conservative with them if anything. A couple from the weak town group could probably even be in the higher one.

Things of note:

I agree with what Nacho (I think?) said about Belisarius not claiming the multiball thing as scum. It's just such an awkward thing for scum to do that I really think they'd avoid it. I also think his early game posting is pretty natural and not really caring about what people think of him.

Pie, look at AGar as scum in this game. Is it possible that their alignments are the same? I really don't think so.

Favoured targets at the moment would probably be Sakura and Majiffy. I don't know how to describe Sakura, but she just feels flat to me and I don't get the impression that she's actually scumhunting. Although I completely disagree with wayne's scumread on talah, I know he's kind of weird sometimes (I love you wayne!) and he seems to believe it, but just don't feel that Sakura does? I don't know.

The main person I want to talk to you about though is Majiffy! Don't let those stylish eyebrows and inquisitive bedroom eyes deceive you. They are actually a distraction from the headset used to communicate with his buddies in broad daylight! Didn't notice it before? Well now that I've discovered his mastermind plan, you shall be in the dark no longer! If that's not enough for you though:

The general thing I've been finding about Majiffy is that whenever someone says something possibly incriminating about him, he dismisses it and insists that it can't be the case, and this has happened to the extent where I actually think it's very likely that he's not being genuine.

The first thing that comes to mind is my mention of the fact that I buddied talah much more in response to Majiffy finding me scummy for buddying Natirasha. The fact that he did this in the first place was odd, possibly slightly scummy, but how he responds to it is much more scummy. First, in 336, he makes this comment about me admitting to being scum buddying, ignoring the possible conflict that I present. And when I actually properly confront him about it, in 363 he says that it wasn't worth noticing (he's calling me scum for buddying and what I said to talah was as buddy-buddy as buddying gets, so of course it was worth noticing if he considers it a scumtell). I feel that town here would have some sort of reason for thinking my buddying of talah was irrelevant (I have no idea what though), or would say something along the lines of 'hey! you're scum for that too!', while I think this would be awkward for scum. I don't like the comment afterwards either, but I'm not sure if that's scummy or just me.

Similar to this is his response to my 303, using the fact that my reason sucked as a reason for why he thought that people were voting him for his lack of posts. Much more likely things imo would be that he just looked at the vote count and didn't read reasons for the votes, or just skimmed or something, but if town thinks that someone's reason sucked, they say it sucked, so this would not be a reason why someone would act confused as to why they were being voted for.

I also think the part about how I'm buddying being a scumtell is just a bad attempt to make his scumread more sophisticated.

PEdit: No tammy.

Guess gonna start with DV reads list.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, my role didn't say anything about my Natural/Coordinator status, but I googled it.

Do you recall the claims?

[PeregrineV]

You should lynch Wake too just to be safe, but I really have a feeling he's town.

The people who have a really good chance of being Deas's partners are Nacho and Levi. I still think Majiffy is pretty town, BUT I don't like that he wasn't actually willing to lynch Deasvail on day one when they had their showdown. I also don't like that he didn't watch me last night. I was quite obviously a good target for a night kill last night to anyone who was paying attention, so the fact that he held onto it is suspect. Also, I don't know why he thinks he's going to live to use it later if he's town.

Still think Talah, kanye and Nat are town. Those are my strongest town reads. Titus, Agar and Belisarius are all probs town.

I don't think much of Peregrine or Svenst though.

My reads are looking something like this:

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

Here are Deasvail's last reads. I really really doubt he put more than one partner if at all in his super town reads. Of those I'd look the most at Peregrine or Wake, but I'd lean more towards Peregrine.

In the nulls I'd go for Svenst and Nacho but it could also be Majiffy and Agar just having a good game. I'd say Agar is more likely town, but it could just be that he annoys me the least.

And in that scum list I'd go for Leviathan over Wayne.

I like that we had the same idea. Not sure why you went for the later version rather the earlier one. I think the earlier one might have more (trying to lead) than the later version, which probably has more (which way is the wind blowing) in it.

Although, now that there are two, maybe a comparison to see what reasons where given for why people moved/stayed in place?

[PeregrineV]

9 pages back. Reading starting now.

[PeregrineV]

so here's another theory: DV was trying to bus Majiffy

just look at it. from my experience, most of the time when scum make such a massive push on someone, it ends up being that they're trying to bus a teammate. and it was on D1 which is the most common time for bussing. and he was flip flopping 293487239847 times during the interaction between Majiffy and me. he continually accused Majiffy throughout the course of D1, and kept bring it up over and over again, and I don't see scum doing that against town.

thoughts?

I haven;t looked back but will assume you have.

If DV was pushing Majiffy, at any point in the day1 did she stop pushing Majiffy and push you?

[PeregrineV]

I saw three claims for coordinators. Are those all of them, or do we have more? And is there any natural claims?

I claimed Natural, but I'm not giving out my name, role, or whether or not I pilot a mobile suit.

How do you know you are natural?

[PeregrineV]

Seriously why Pie isn't served on a platter by now is beyond me.

He's pretty obviously factional PR and his scumbuddies may very well include Nati and Levi.

Beli and Kanye are probably two derp townies but the convenience of setting up FacScumPie for a way out of the inevitable lynch should be looked at if they approach LYLO alive.

So you think there are two scum teams?

[PeregrineV]

If someone has more logical reasons for somebody else to be lynched, LOGICAL reasons, enumerate them. Otherwise just be done with this. Pie hitting scum last night is NOT a logical reason. It's an emotional one.

Actually, it is logical.

We are not lynching scum. Pie is shooting scum. He is the tool by which we are reducing the scum numbers though an effective doubleday mechanic.

Logically speaking.

[PeregrineV]

Can we stop the scums from punking us please? Wake, talah, Stal and Wayne are the scums. Their behavior is obvious scumteam behavior.

Can you tie them to DV? Because without that, I think Wake and talah are probtown. I'd lynch Stal, and still trying to figure out Wayne.

[PeregrineV]

This wagon on me makes no sense. I've wanted to do my job by lynching the confScum, but that doesn't deserve a lynch. If you lynch my PR slot, you will have killed yet another Townie over SK.

PRETEND HE IS ALREADY LYNCHED. NOW FIND OTHER SCUM!!!!!

PRETEND HE IS ALREADY LYNCHED. NOW FIND OTHER SCUM!!!!!

PRETEND HE IS ALREADY LYNCHED. NOW FIND OTHER SCUM!!!!!

PRETEND HE IS ALREADY LYNCHED. NOW FIND OTHER SCUM!!!!!

PRETEND HE IS ALREADY LYNCHED. NOW FIND OTHER SCUM!!!!!

PRETEND HE IS ALREADY LYNCHED. NOW FIND OTHER SCUM!!!!!

[PeregrineV]

I'm being useless because I don't have the time on my hands that I normally have and am getting swamped by incredibly useless information constantly. So now, I'm ignoring 40 pages and winging it. The concept of a redirector is dumb because pieguy was supposed to shoot AA9, shot AA9. Next, pieguy is supposed to shoot someone in his pool, so then he shoots DeasVail? Why would a redirector redirect him onto DeasVail? If scum, why wouldn't they take out a bigger threat? If town, why wouldn't they claim they redirected him?

Most people don't mod games like that, and speculation of things like that should be pretty much eradicated when the evidence of them doesn't show up where it should.

[PeregrineV]

Town: Nati, talah, Matias, Sakura, Pyro, Levi, Beli
Null-town: kayne, PV, Nacho, DV
Null: DrD, Sven, AA9, mastin
Scum: Majiffy, Empking, Kalimar, waynegg, AGar *
* I seriously doubt AGar x Majiffy is scum vs. scum, so this is impossible unless multiball. not too sure yet on exactly who else it would be in that case (from DrD, Sven, AA9, mastin)

townlean

my best guesses besides the 5 I posted would be any of my null reads: DrD, PV, Sven, DV, Wake. probably Sven, then DV, then DrD as the top 3

suspicion increases on Deas somewhere near the end of D1

Makes sense that suspicion would increase during Deas's absence D2.

Hopefully he followed this:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5425972

[PeregrineV]

And I'm saying the only reason Pie killed scum was because his faction has an informative role that told him DV was part of the other scum faction.
There is no world where Pie doesn't kill me over DV without that kind of information.

Pie is going to kill the strongest PR we have as soon as he has no more options to survive (namely, tonight).

So we should pre-emptively lynch him now so that we can catch his little buddies.

So, before we end the day, you need to provide two lists and lots of info:

Pie's scumteam list, and reasons.
Why Pie's scumteam wanted AA9 dead, given the overall target rich environment.
Pie's team, according to you, found DV night1. By that logic, instead of wasting a kill on him, they would try to lynch him first. Pie's scumteam needs to include DV hate day2, or reasons why not.

DV's scumteam list, and reasons.
Why DV's team failed to kill night1.
Why DV's team failed to kill night2.

Holy shit, I found reasons for Majiffy to post and play besides being Wake88 Jr.

[PeregrineV]

At this point, caught up but the urge to repeat myself is overwhelming (almost). Consider all my posts above to be double posts.

[PeregrineV]

So, in other news PV may be scum.

Ok, go with that and tell me which team I'm on.

[PeregrineV]

The only way I would forego pushing for pie's lynch is if I'm promised that he will be lynched if he (she?) hits Town. We've already lost too much and I'd prefer we cut our losses, but something tells me there's little chance of persuading certain people. This wagon on me because of my desire to lynch confScum, however, is laughable. Sorry, it is. We're supposed to find Scum, and then kill it. We've found it, now we kill it. But, this game, that doesn't seem to be happening. I only hope my biggest fears aren't realized, that there are indeed two Mafia factions and that pieguyn is part of one. If that is true, by the time others catch up it will likely be too late.

Too late?

Oh no!

Too late!!

...


For what?

[PeregrineV]

Too late as in costing us too many Townies over confScum.

Majiffy says there are two teams. Discuss.

[PeregrineV]

I actually don't mind the idea of having everyone nominate three people. It was something we always did way back on my old site, and it worked quite well. I don't know if we'll manage to do it though.

Empking,

Pyro

, Wayne

PEdit: Titus, yeah you did, but I don't think I've ever seen scum do that, and usually when I've seen something that's too strange to come from town or scum, it's from town.

Wake, Pyro has essentially shown us that Pie is the SK and not groupscum. Please don't use the possibility of him being groupscum to support your arguments.

I also don't see much point in waiting for a lynch at this stage except for getting a claim/anything else that's obvious.

My reads are looking something like this:

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV

Pyrotechnics

Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

And this series bolsters my case on Pyro.

If you show us possible reasons why that switched in 460 posts (or not), it would lend weight to what you are saying.

[PeregrineV]

Too late as in costing us too many Townies over confScum.

Majiffy says there are two teams. Discuss.

*Scratches head*

...well, it's possible and even plausible. We have 21 players in this game. It's big enough to allow not just two Mafia factions, but also an SK.

With Multiball + SK, the Mafia teams could either be comprised of two or three members each. However, that'd be 7 Scum total. Still, it may be possible.

That, or there are two Mafia factions and no SK. It's possible. The reason I suspect two Mafia factions is that there's a Blue group, which lends credence to an alternate Red group.

Blue and Red Mafia and an SK is possible...

...but if so the NKs put everything into question. If three Scum factions, why so few kills?

Therein lies the crux of why I can't jump on the "Pie is the other mafia" bandwagon.

[PeregrineV]

So, before we end the day, you need to provide two lists and lots of info:

Pie's scumteam list, and reasons.
Why Pie's scumteam wanted AA9 dead, given the overall target rich environment.
Pie's team, according to you, found DV night1. By that logic, instead of wasting a kill on him, they would try to lynch him first. Pie's scumteam needs to include DV hate day2, or reasons why not.

PieFactional -> Nati, {Beli/Kanye}, +/- Levi
AA9 died n1 because Pie had to play along to stay alive.
Makes more sense to kill him. Fits into the PieSK-HelpingTown narrative - which, if he is a PR as I strongly believe - they want to keep him around as long as possible.

Herp derp read my posts, already said all of this before.

I don't consider bathing in old sewage to be the best thing. I'd rather have new sewage, thank you!

Are all of these associative tells with unflipped Pie?

DV's scumteam list, and reasons.
Why DV's team failed to kill night1.
Why DV's team failed to kill night2.

Don't know, don't care, Pie's information is richer and more pivotal at the moment.

Actually, DV already flipped and so provides us more real information than your assumption of Pie as another mafia team which, while you think is true, is not confirmed. DV, however, has already flipped.

So, would like to see who you think is on the same team with an actual scumflip, not a theorteical scum/SK flip.


Besdies, at this time, Pie's enitre scumteam is under our control and we are using it to kill the other scumteam (according to Majiffy).

Holy shit, I found reasons for Majiffy to post and play besides being Wake88 Jr.

Holy shit, PV clearly is a fucking genius!

Seriously, thank you for joining this game! You significantly increased town's chances to win!

I have called out 2 confirmed scum and town has failed to lynch them. As far as I'm concerned, I should be getting awards right now and some fresh new rolls of toilet paper!

Why, thank you, I do appreciate the kind words.

[PeregrineV]

PV, let's suppose (arguendo, with no evidence) that

1) Night 1 kills are as follows

a) Pie is factional scum and killed AA9.
b) 2nd factional scum killed AA9 OR ran into a doctor/healer or some other role protecting said target.

I'll allow 1a, if Pie is faking it then scum1 team has to do it.
1b- first part, no, makes no sense. 2nd part, maybe. In that case, very lucky doc, but possible.

2) Night 2 kills are as follows

a) Pie's non-blue scum kills DV. (Most likely scenario, but not certain).
b) Blue scum tried to shoot Pyro/Talah or ran into another healer ish type character and Pyro is assuming the BP shot went on him. (I've never heard of a "loud" BP on this site [meaning notification received when vest lost].)

2a- DV is dead, so granted that Pie killed DV.
2b- So then DV's team is just super bad at mafia? They've hit protected targets twice, haven't shot the faking-Pie and haven't shot any PRs or VTs. Nor have they blocked Pie to make him look bad in order to get him lynched faster.
So, maybe once I can agree to the possibility. Twice, no.

Plus the existence of an SK. Is there one?

I have just set up a scenario where multiball is possible.

Would it be highly implausible that

a) Blue Scum Wake wanted to lynch Pie to ensure none of his team got lynched

or

b) Non-Blue Scum Wake wanted to get Pie lynched so his faction could have control over his kill?

a. Then Blue scum Wake could have shot Pie n1 when he wasn't lynched the first time, or Blue scum wake could have shot Pie last night.
b. Red-Scum Wake would either be scum with Pie (Majiffy theory) or Redscum Wake knows Pie is really SK, in which you are missing an additional NK from each night.

The thing is we are not looking for what is possible, but for what is probable.



===========

Now let's take a more likely scenario, one scum team.

Would it be plausible for you that Scum Wake would want to push to have Pie lynched to have total control over his faction's kill?

Not sure I get this. There is no way Wake is having total control over Pie's kill. Just like we wouldn't give him total control over your kill.

But, maybe you are saying Pie and Wake are on the same team. Wake is mad at Pie for faking SK claim, and now wants to bus Pie to take control back over of their scumteam's kill. Is that what you mean?

If it is, I find that even less likely.

Given game size, I think there are 5 mafia and one SK. If there is not an SK, then there were 3 other players that would mediate the Pie-Wake debacle in the QT. Being of lesser numbers, they would continue to shoot town until Pie made the ultimate sacrifice and got lynched.
But, with the Pie killing of DV, I don't think they are all on one team.

Look at Wake's actions as a whole... lynch confscum = trying to play for towncred without actually scumhunting, benefit == get control of kill after teammate slipped and required bussing. He tries to insist on his own pool to ensure that those his faction wants dead CAN be killed. Look at his noms as more evidence this is his motivation.

If you're going to seriously put for Wake town, I'm going to need a lot at this point.

Being arrogant and thinking you are right is not the same as being scum. Besides, 4800 looks like he might resign himself to a few more days of Pie and may be putting effort into the game.

[PeregrineV]

AGar, it's quite likely that scum were unable to 'deal' with pie last night.

The reasons for lynching pie are still pretty bad, but I can't be bothered arguing anymore.

I think this tells us that night1 they tried to kill him.

[PeregrineV]

Yes. I am suggesting Wake is angry at Pie for claiming SK and trying to bus Pie so his team can actually kill quality town reads. Why do you find this unlikely?

That scenario only requires two factions (or one scum plus sk not being Pie). If you buy 5 scum plus sk, just move Pie to factionscum.

I basically know Wake's game and know he's scum. So much so that

intent to vig Wake

.


@Waynegg, Pie has utility.

If you can kill me today, then do so. I find you to be stubborn, reckless, and stupid if Town. Otherwise, you're Scum pulling off one hell of a gamble.

Once I flip, it will cost you, and if you kill me tonight you will have burnt my tracker results.

this is a Very Scum Post

Why? I find it absolutely null.

[PeregrineV]

459:

Townreads:

kanyeknowsbest
Belisarius
waynegg
AGar
leviathan93
talah
Natirasha
mastin2

Town with reservations:

DrDolittle
Pieguyn
PeregrineV
NachoKoopa
Matias

Leftover:

Kise
Empking
Majiffy
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Mac
Kalimar

Spoiler: Full text of 459

Sorry about being away for a while guys.

I'm sorry about not joining you on Sakura, talah. I actually forgot about it, but I'd rather not move off Majiffy at this time.

Nacho, does Mac ever not do this? I'm not really up to trying to find my past games with him right now, but this doesn't deviate from my general impression of him.

~~

Townreads:

kanyeknowsbest
Belisarius
waynegg
AGar
leviathan93
talah
Natirasha
mastin2

Town with reservations:

DrDolittle
Pieguyn
PeregrineV
NachoKoopa
Matias

Leftover:

Kise
Empking
Majiffy
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Mac
Kalimar

~~

I'm worried about the leftover group being so small, but I feel pretty good about the townreads, and I think I'm actually being conservative with them if anything. A couple from the weak town group could probably even be in the higher one.

Things of note:

I agree with what Nacho (I think?) said about Belisarius not claiming the multiball thing as scum. It's just such an awkward thing for scum to do that I really think they'd avoid it. I also think his early game posting is pretty natural and not really caring about what people think of him.

Pie, look at AGar as scum in this game. Is it possible that their alignments are the same? I really don't think so.

Favoured targets at the moment would probably be Sakura and Majiffy. I don't know how to describe Sakura, but she just feels flat to me and I don't get the impression that she's actually scumhunting. Although I completely disagree with wayne's scumread on talah, I know he's kind of weird sometimes (I love you wayne!) and he seems to believe it, but just don't feel that Sakura does? I don't know.

The main person I want to talk to you about though is Majiffy! Don't let those stylish eyebrows and inquisitive bedroom eyes deceive you. They are actually a distraction from the headset used to communicate with his buddies in broad daylight! Didn't notice it before? Well now that I've discovered his mastermind plan, you shall be in the dark no longer! If that's not enough for you though:

The general thing I've been finding about Majiffy is that whenever someone says something possibly incriminating about him, he dismisses it and insists that it can't be the case, and this has happened to the extent where I actually think it's very likely that he's not being genuine.

The first thing that comes to mind is my mention of the fact that I buddied talah much more in response to Majiffy finding me scummy for buddying Natirasha. The fact that he did this in the first place was odd, possibly slightly scummy, but how he responds to it is much more scummy. First, in 336, he makes this comment about me admitting to being scum buddying, ignoring the possible conflict that I present. And when I actually properly confront him about it, in 363 he says that it wasn't worth noticing (he's calling me scum for buddying and what I said to talah was as buddy-buddy as buddying gets, so of course it was worth noticing if he considers it a scumtell). I feel that town here would have some sort of reason for thinking my buddying of talah was irrelevant (I have no idea what though), or would say something along the lines of 'hey! you're scum for that too!', while I think this would be awkward for scum. I don't like the comment afterwards either, but I'm not sure if that's scummy or just me.

Similar to this is his response to my 303, using the fact that my reason sucked as a reason for why he thought that people were voting him for his lack of posts. Much more likely things imo would be that he just looked at the vote count and didn't read reasons for the votes, or just skimmed or something, but if town thinks that someone's reason sucked, they say it sucked, so this would not be a reason why someone would act confused as to why they were being voted for.

I also think the part about how I'm buddying being a scumtell is just a bad attempt to make his scumread more sophisticated.

PEdit: No tammy.

2438

Town/Not wanting to lynch any time soon:

Belisarius
Pieguyn
AGar
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

Weaker town but still not that interested in lynching:

Kanye
PeregrineV
leviathan93
NachoKoopa
Majiffy*

*Probably in the list below if Nacho changes.

Leftover/scummy:

Wayne
Svenskt
Empking
Pyrotechnics

Spoiler: Full text of 2438

I'm still not for lynching Pie. He probably killed AA, so he's not the big bad meanie that people thought he was going to be, and if he's scum (I really don't think so though), well.. I don't really mind if it means his faction's going to keep killing who we tell them to? Also, the SK doesn't actually know who the mafia are any more than we do, so they can't actively not kill scum.

And I want an explanation from Majiffy as to why he didn't use his supposed ability Night 1. You'd think he'd use it if he could, and if he's Town I don't see why the Hell not.

If you had this concern, why were you so against Majiffy being lynched today?

~~

Town/Not wanting to lynch any time soon:

Belisarius
Pieguyn
AGar
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

Weaker town but still not that interested in lynching:

Kanye
PeregrineV
leviathan93
NachoKoopa
Majiffy*

*Probably in the list below if Nacho changes.

Leftover/scummy:

Wayne
Svenskt
Empking
Pyrotechnics

I actually still need to read Wayne properly, but he's a mixture of town-looking and scummy, and after a quick skim and think about things just now and I'm leaning towards the scummy side of things. Svenskt is just there. I don't think he's overly scummy, but he's not town either so I wouldn't be upset with his lynch. Empking is probably my favourite choice for lynch because while he is usually minimal with his posting, it usually achieves much more than is occurring here. Pyro is just really underwhelming, but I think Tammy at least is pretty obvious as town, so I'll wait a little.

Vote: Empking

3599

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

Spoiler: full text of 3599

]

Wake, Pyro has essentially shown us that Pie is the SK and not groupscum. Please don't use the possibility of him being groupscum to support your arguments.

I also don't see much point in waiting for a lynch at this stage except for getting a claim/anything else that's obvious.

My reads are looking something like this:

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

[PeregrineV]

AGar, it's quite likely that scum were unable to 'deal' with pie last night.

The reasons for lynching pie are still pretty bad, but I can't be bothered arguing anymore.

I think this tells us that night1 they tried to kill him.

That means

Pie kills AA9.
DV faction either heals Pie with a third faction killing Pie or DVs faction tried to kill Pie and a doctor healed Pue.

Either way, it makes sense for frustrated scum to tunnel who they cannot kill at night right.

We did mention that as SK, Pie may or may not have BP-ness to some or no degree. I suspect he did/does, and that DV's group tried to take him out but failed. I think normally they would let the SK take some extra shots at town, but him being leashed is probably not what they wanted.

I also don't think the entire scumteam would push for Pie's lynch. There is no reason for all of them to mislynch a townie, so there would be no reason for all of them to join in the SK push.

[PeregrineV]

that appeal~

I think, based on all his other posting, that it can be attributed to his playstyle.

[PeregrineV]

I also don't think the entire scumteam would push for Pie's lynch. There is no reason for all of them to mislynch a townie, so there would be no reason for all of them to join in the SK push.

Oh that subtle scum=townie right there.

I can't tell, are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?

[PeregrineV]

459:

Townreads:

kanyeknowsbest
Belisarius
waynegg
AGar
leviathan93
talah
Natirasha
mastin2

Town with reservations:

DrDolittle
Pieguyn
PeregrineV
NachoKoopa
Matias

Leftover:

Kise
Empking
Majiffy
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Mac
Kalimar

Spoiler: Full text of 459

Sorry about being away for a while guys.

I'm sorry about not joining you on Sakura, talah. I actually forgot about it, but I'd rather not move off Majiffy at this time.

Nacho, does Mac ever not do this? I'm not really up to trying to find my past games with him right now, but this doesn't deviate from my general impression of him.

~~

Townreads:

kanyeknowsbest
Belisarius
waynegg
AGar
leviathan93
talah
Natirasha
mastin2

Town with reservations:

DrDolittle
Pieguyn
PeregrineV
NachoKoopa
Matias

Leftover:

Kise
Empking
Majiffy
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Mac
Kalimar

~~

I'm worried about the leftover group being so small, but I feel pretty good about the townreads, and I think I'm actually being conservative with them if anything. A couple from the weak town group could probably even be in the higher one.

Things of note:

I agree with what Nacho (I think?) said about Belisarius not claiming the multiball thing as scum. It's just such an awkward thing for scum to do that I really think they'd avoid it. I also think his early game posting is pretty natural and not really caring about what people think of him.

Pie, look at AGar as scum in this game. Is it possible that their alignments are the same? I really don't think so.

Favoured targets at the moment would probably be Sakura and Majiffy. I don't know how to describe Sakura, but she just feels flat to me and I don't get the impression that she's actually scumhunting. Although I completely disagree with wayne's scumread on talah, I know he's kind of weird sometimes (I love you wayne!) and he seems to believe it, but just don't feel that Sakura does? I don't know.

The main person I want to talk to you about though is Majiffy! Don't let those stylish eyebrows and inquisitive bedroom eyes deceive you. They are actually a distraction from the headset used to communicate with his buddies in broad daylight! Didn't notice it before? Well now that I've discovered his mastermind plan, you shall be in the dark no longer! If that's not enough for you though:

The general thing I've been finding about Majiffy is that whenever someone says something possibly incriminating about him, he dismisses it and insists that it can't be the case, and this has happened to the extent where I actually think it's very likely that he's not being genuine.

The first thing that comes to mind is my mention of the fact that I buddied talah much more in response to Majiffy finding me scummy for buddying Natirasha. The fact that he did this in the first place was odd, possibly slightly scummy, but how he responds to it is much more scummy. First, in 336, he makes this comment about me admitting to being scum buddying, ignoring the possible conflict that I present. And when I actually properly confront him about it, in 363 he says that it wasn't worth noticing (he's calling me scum for buddying and what I said to talah was as buddy-buddy as buddying gets, so of course it was worth noticing if he considers it a scumtell). I feel that town here would have some sort of reason for thinking my buddying of talah was irrelevant (I have no idea what though), or would say something along the lines of 'hey! you're scum for that too!', while I think this would be awkward for scum. I don't like the comment afterwards either, but I'm not sure if that's scummy or just me.

Similar to this is his response to my 303, using the fact that my reason sucked as a reason for why he thought that people were voting him for his lack of posts. Much more likely things imo would be that he just looked at the vote count and didn't read reasons for the votes, or just skimmed or something, but if town thinks that someone's reason sucked, they say it sucked, so this would not be a reason why someone would act confused as to why they were being voted for.

I also think the part about how I'm buddying being a scumtell is just a bad attempt to make his scumread more sophisticated.

PEdit: No tammy.

2438

Town/Not wanting to lynch any time soon:

Belisarius
Pieguyn
AGar
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

Weaker town but still not that interested in lynching:

Kanye
PeregrineV
leviathan93
NachoKoopa
Majiffy*

*Probably in the list below if Nacho changes.

Leftover/scummy:

Wayne
Svenskt
Empking
Pyrotechnics

Spoiler: Full text of 2438

I'm still not for lynching Pie. He probably killed AA, so he's not the big bad meanie that people thought he was going to be, and if he's scum (I really don't think so though), well.. I don't really mind if it means his faction's going to keep killing who we tell them to? Also, the SK doesn't actually know who the mafia are any more than we do, so they can't actively not kill scum.

And I want an explanation from Majiffy as to why he didn't use his supposed ability Night 1. You'd think he'd use it if he could, and if he's Town I don't see why the Hell not.

If you had this concern, why were you so against Majiffy being lynched today?

~~

Town/Not wanting to lynch any time soon:

Belisarius
Pieguyn
AGar
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

Weaker town but still not that interested in lynching:

Kanye
PeregrineV
leviathan93
NachoKoopa
Majiffy*

*Probably in the list below if Nacho changes.

Leftover/scummy:

Wayne
Svenskt
Empking
Pyrotechnics

I actually still need to read Wayne properly, but he's a mixture of town-looking and scummy, and after a quick skim and think about things just now and I'm leaning towards the scummy side of things. Svenskt is just there. I don't think he's overly scummy, but he's not town either so I wouldn't be upset with his lynch. Empking is probably my favourite choice for lynch because while he is usually minimal with his posting, it usually achieves much more than is occurring here. Pyro is just really underwhelming, but I think Tammy at least is pretty obvious as town, so I'll wait a little.

Vote: Empking

3599

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

Spoiler: full text of 3599

]

Wake, Pyro has essentially shown us that Pie is the SK and not groupscum. Please don't use the possibility of him being groupscum to support your arguments.

I also don't see much point in waiting for a lynch at this stage except for getting a claim/anything else that's obvious.

My reads are looking something like this:

Super town:

Kanye
PeregrineV
Pyrotechnics
Sakura Hana
Wake88
Talah
Natirasha
Titus

(I actually think this would be a pretty great townblock, but somehow I don't think people would want me in it, so...)

Then I've got a group of people who are kind of town, but I could still see as scum:

Belisarius (Probably should be in the group above, but I'm worried about his lack of posting lately)
AGar
Svenskt
Majiffy
Nacho

And then there's:

Wayne
Empking
Leviathan

Kayne- town-weaktown-supertown
Beli- town, town, kind of town
Wayne- town, scummy, scummy
AGar- town, town, kind of town
Levi- town, weaktown, scummy
talah- town-town-supertown
Natirasha- town-town-supertown

Mastin

-town

DoLittle-

-weaktown
Pie- weaktown, town, no read
Peregrine- weaktown, weaktown, supertown
NachoKoopa- weaktown, weaktown, kind of town
Wake- wekatown, town, supertown
Sven- scummy, scummy, kind of town

EmpKing-

scummy, scummy, scummy
Majiffy- scummy, weaktown, kind of town
Pyro- scummy, scummy, supertown
EsptheLies-scummy, town, supertown

AA9

- scummy
Titus- scummy, town, supertown

Reads evolving for DV.

[PeregrineV]

@Talah- My tired old eyes....

I can't seem to find any concrete scmreads for you in your last 75 posts. Can you tell me your reads and reasons please?

[PeregrineV]

Titus, Wake, Majiffy, DV scumteam of the year 2013

???

so here's another theory: DV was trying to bus Majiffy

just look at it. from my experience, most of the time when scum make such a massive push on someone, it ends up being that they're trying to bus a teammate. and it was on D1 which is the most common time for bussing. and he was flip flopping 293487239847 times during the interaction between Majiffy and me. he continually accused Majiffy throughout the course of D1, and kept bring it up over and over again, and I don't see scum doing that against town.

thoughts?

I haven;t looked back but will assume you have.

If DV was pushing Majiffy, at any point in the day1 did she stop pushing Majiffy and push you?

[PeregrineV]

Hello, just checking in. I will not read the whole game now, so any tipps, what is really important (Except the Iso of dead scum)?
I only skimmed certain thinks, pieguyn is a claimed SK, right?
Why are you trying to lynch Wake, can someone give me the points about the case.
More later, just read my Role PM and before that skimmed the game abit before replacing in.
Yeah, returning to mafiascum.

Welcome back!!

Pie is claimed SK. Majiffy and others (maybe one) think Pie is member of another scumteam that is not Deasvail's scumteam.

Wake is mostly getting a wagon for his failure to do anything except push for Pie's lynch. He is a claimed every-other night something.

Who did you replace?

[PeregrineV]

Titus is one of my major Scum reads. Like the persistent sharpshooter who keeps firing her bullets hoping to find that one quarter-sized chink in my armor, she keeps trying to use anything and everything to get me lynched. I don't think Town would go that far down the rabbit hole. Do you?

Natirasha, AGar, and Kanye have all been boorish here and there, and their votes belie their lack of reasoning.

Those I have an eye on and pegged as careful and trying to blend in are Belisarius, ETL, and Nacho.

The rest I am getting too tired to think about, though I do respond better to very direct questions. The more the better.

Dragged out of you, but this is what I was looking for.

[PeregrineV]

Hello, just checking in. I will not read the whole game now, so any tipps, what is really important (Except the Iso of dead scum)?
I only skimmed certain thinks, pieguyn is a claimed SK, right?
Why are you trying to lynch Wake, can someone give me the points about the case.
More later, just read my Role PM and before that skimmed the game abit before replacing in.
Yeah, returning to mafiascum.

Welcome back!!

Pie is claimed SK. Majiffy and others (maybe one) think Pie is member of another scumteam that is not Deasvail's scumteam.

Wake is mostly getting a wagon for his failure to do anything except push for Pie's lynch. He is a claimed every-other night something.

Who did you replace?

Just saw it was Sven. He was a borderline scumread.

[PeregrineV]

Might as well get it started back up, since it needs to be done.

Vote: Levi

[PeregrineV]

Stefan, as long as pie remains alive this debate will rage on. Lynching me will add fuel to that fire. If we lynch pie, it all ends, and we can all get back to finding the rest of Scum. That's been my goal since Day 1. Please, help us lynch confirmed Scum.

Please don't make the mistake of lynching a claimed PR with an ability tonight instead of lynching Scum. This path has cost Town too much already.

If he flips SK and you don't track a scum kill tonight, then we will spend the entirety of day4 lynching you, every. single. post. and every. single. page.

Thoughts on this catch-22?

Because frankly, your tunnelvision on the guy claiming SK is making you "conveniently blind" to the existence of the entire mafia team. Now, unless you are 12 and not yet able to fully grasp how an SK could possibly help town, then you do grasp it and are vehemently arguing for the SK's lynch because you are scum.

[PeregrineV]

And this SK crap seems to be the new "thing" right now. See through it. And if he really is SK, great! One less chance for town to die at night.

Just like last night, when he shot town-DV. Did that piss you off?

Oh, that's right,

DeasVail was Shani Andras, pilot of the Forbidden Gundam and aligned with the Blue Cosmos Mafia, killed Night 2.

[PeregrineV]

Stefan, as long as pie remains alive this debate will rage on. Lynching me will add fuel to that fire. If we lynch pie, it all ends, and we can all get back to finding the rest of Scum. That's been my goal since Day 1. Please, help us lynch confirmed Scum.

Please don't make the mistake of lynching a claimed PR with an ability tonight instead of lynching Scum. This path has cost Town too much already.

If he flips SK and you don't track a scum kill tonight, then we will spend the entirety of day4 lynching you, every. single. post. and every. single. page.

Thoughts on this catch-22?

So be it? Who gives a rats ass? How does that matter RIGHT NOW? A few thoughts that came to mind immediately.

Deal with situations as they come up, not as they come up for some uncertain future in your head. There's the chance Wake is exactly what he says he is and he may track to scum. Him tracking to scum isn't a prerequisite to him being town. How often have you hit scum as Tracker? 25% chance of a non town flip.

With Pie, we get confirmed scum. The cherry on top will be if he flips factional. Either way, there are no drawbacks. Town eliminates scum. Town gains cohesion. Town gives itself a chance to win. 100% chance of a non town flip.

A known SK is less of a threat to town than the scumteam is to town. It is more of a threat to the scumteam than it is to town.

The situation right now is he shot scum. I want a repeat performance of that. And if the scum wincon is anything like the ones I create, scum can't win until SK is dead.

[PeregrineV]

Neither is DV flipping. Here I'll prove that. I'm a JOAT and used my shot to kill DV. Prove otherwise.

I don't have to. If you did that, then what do you think happened to Pie's shot?

[PeregrineV]

Okay, I am reareading Maj and Pyro at the moment.
Maj: I trust you enough to

Unvote

:
I see the problem and I don't believe that it will solve itself if we lynch Wake (and than Wayne is shoot)
What next lynch Maj who is also against leaving the SK alive?
I am tyred so don't exspect me to post so much today.
But it is better to lynch the SK than someone I think is town.
(Yes I am still calling pie the SK, not decieded what he is)
From the kills I am sure that we either have 2 scumgroups or 1 scumgroup and 1 SK.

Who are your scumreads besides the SK?

[PeregrineV]

Then vote Pie and see how it resolves? I don't think any clear connections can be drawn until the object of dissension is removed.

The point is he is only an object of dissension because you are insisting he is an object of dissension.

He apparently has paralyzed any other play from

Wake88
Majiffy
waynegg

who all demand he be lynched NOW!!

The rest of us know he will be lynched in a few days, but apparently have to spend day after day arguing with the 3 paralyzed players who are too busy to look for DeasVail's partners, but have plenty of time to scream up the thread.

[PeregrineV]

It's basic rule of mafia. As town you don't keep known scum alive. You definitely don't convince yourself they'll help you. I'll berate and make fun of you at end game though. Right now we just need to kill scum. Not town.

So if Pie had stuck to his vig claim, then we wouldn't be having this conversation?

Because if he lived, he would still have to be lynched within a few days, to prove he wasn't the SK.

[PeregrineV]

It's basic rule of mafia. As town you don't keep known scum alive. You definitely don't convince yourself they'll help you. I'll berate and make fun of you at end game though. Right now we just need to kill scum. Not town.

So if Pie had stuck to his vig claim, then we wouldn't be having this conversation?

Because if he lived, he would still have to be lynched within a few days, to prove he wasn't the SK.

We'd still be having this conversation right now because of the lack of night kills to backup his claim two nights in a row. D1 it would have died down eventually. D2 it would have most likely been nonexistent.

Why? He would claim to shoot AA9 and DV.

[PeregrineV]

MY SOUL FOR A HAMMER PV

MY SOUL

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh- no.

[PeregrineV]

He buys Pie=Factionscum afair

I'll thank you not to answer questions for me in the future.

I'm voting pie because
a)

he's fucking well claimed scum

b) I think Wake is town and pie is the only counterwagon that's had a chance to save Wake so far, and
c) third, a

distant

third, he could be factional scum instead of SK. That would just be the whipped cream on the breasts, though.

With 8 days left, and saving Pie to shoot again, and not lynching Wake, who are your top 4 scum candidates?

[PeregrineV]

I'm working on my patience. It is not easy.

If you give me time, I can provide my Scumreads other than pie. However, I still want pie dead, and

am afraid my blunt reads will net retaliatory votes.

Today I've worked 17 hours. Tomorrow, 14. Day after, 16. Thank God for overtime.

You shouldn't fear that or care.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Belisarius

Although I thought there was a reason I liked him for town early game. I'll go back and check it.

[PeregrineV]

do you really think any reasonable player is going to listen to that post

I think it would have been cooler if the snake let me go because he had already eaten the wife and 47 kids.


Talk about IRONY!!

[PeregrineV]

I didn't agree to any deal that didn't involve lynching pie immediately on d1 like we should have on d1.

GET THE HINT?

So your saying day1 lynch Pie.
Night1 you die (because they don't have to shoot Pie, and you are megascumhunterman)
Day2 we lynch EmpKing
Night2 DV doesn't die, but some town player does.
Day3 we are where we are now but have 4 dead town, one dead SK, and no dead mafia.

Whereas now we have 4 dead town, a dead mafia, and an SK on the hook.

The 2nd one is better, because you are alive in it.

[PeregrineV]

Vote: Levi

7 more days to make people see things my way.

[PeregrineV]

i hope you learned the lesson that you shouldnt attempt a shitty gambit when youre this inexperienced at mafia.

I have many years of play, and in spite of your garbage I know how to play this game.

You may not believe it, but anti-Town majorities do exist.

You killed off FOUR Townies to protect an anti-Town unit. This town is hijacked. More Townies will keep dying and more discord will be sowed because NO ONE WILL LYNCH THE CONFSCUM BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

If you had lynched Scum Day 1 when he revealed himself we'd have a better advantage.

No.

I didn't agree to any deal that didn't involve lynching pie immediately on d1 like we should have on d1.

GET THE HINT?

So your saying day1 lynch Pie.
Night1 you die (because they don't have to shoot Pie, and you are megascumhunterman)
Day2 we lynch EmpKing
Night2 DV doesn't die, but some town player does.
Day3 we are where we are now but have 4 dead town, one dead SK, and no dead mafia.

Whereas now we have 4 dead town, a dead mafia, and an SK on the hook.

The 2nd one is better, because you are alive in it.

[PeregrineV]

Explain yourself PV.

Say in your own words how I'm wrong, point by point. And if I have enough time I'll respond to them.

This, in bold below (summary- not better off):

i hope you learned the lesson that you shouldnt attempt a shitty gambit when youre this inexperienced at mafia.

I have many years of play, and in spite of your garbage I know how to play this game.

You may not believe it, but anti-Town majorities do exist.

You killed off FOUR Townies to protect an anti-Town unit. This town is hijacked. More Townies will keep dying and more discord will be sowed because NO ONE WILL LYNCH THE CONFSCUM BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE.

If you had lynched Scum Day 1 when he revealed himself we'd have a better advantage

.

No.

I didn't agree to any deal that didn't involve lynching pie immediately on d1 like we should have on d1.

GET THE HINT?

So your saying day1 lynch Pie.
Night1 you die (because they don't have to shoot Pie, and you are megascumhunterman)
Day2 we lynch EmpKing
Night2 DV doesn't die, but some town player does.

IF WE HAD LYNCHED PIE DAY1:Day3 we are where we are now but have 4 dead town, one dead SK, and no dead mafia.

WHERE WE ARE NOW: Whereas now we have 4 dead town, a dead mafia, and an SK on the hook.

The 2nd one is better, because you are alive in it.

[PeregrineV]

Town only needs itself to root out and kill Scum.

I didn't count, but if you were hammered, then there is scum on your wagon.

Unless you flip scum.

[PeregrineV]

@pie- wayne was a bad shot in terms of killing a town player. I know he was annoying as shit and sounded like a broken record, but you should have ignored that.

@Titus- Talah was an atrocious shot. claimed gunsmith and very obvious town.

In other news, if SK killed and vig killed, then where did the scum kill go?

Vote: Natrisha

I jailkept him last night, and I sincerely doubt he was the scum NK target.

[PeregrineV]

Pere - serious question. Did you read the thread from day start to here?

And that's a bad vote.

Nat - how many scum roleblockers are there? Because I think we may have just found one.

VOTE: pere

Yes, but let's review.

Pie (sk) shot wayne
Titus (vig) shot talah

If you think I protected Natrisha instead of blocking her, then tell me why you think that.

[PeregrineV]

Mine was a once-per-game power I received n2.

[PeregrineV]

Pere - serious question. Did you read the thread from day start to here?

And that's a bad vote.

Nat - how many scum roleblockers are there? Because I think we may have just found one.

VOTE: pere

Yes, but let's review.

Pie (sk) shot wayne
Titus (vig) shot talah

If you think I protected Natrisha instead of blocking her, then tell me why you think that.

And I'm alive. I protected talah last night. That means one of two things happened. They used strongman or roleblocked me. Titus is claiming that's a VIG shot, and if so then I was roleblocked not strong manned because I would have been shot by Titus.

If you were roleblocked, how is that relevant that Natrisha was blocked from performing the scum nighkill?

[PeregrineV]

Role block preventer. Anyone I target cannot be role blocked. I've been on Pie every night.

Except last night.

[PeregrineV]

if i didnt know that majiffy was so stubborn about bad decisions id swear he was scum at this point.

+1

[PeregrineV]

And I was very close to protecting talah since she was one of my strongest townreads, but if she was going to use gunsmith I was hoping the doc would stay on her instead.

So, would also hear how Titus decided gunsmith was fakeclaim and why.

[PeregrineV]

Except last night.

Are you seriously not considering any other explanations? Peregrine? Are you on Nacho and Titus's scumteam?

Actually, I'm merely pointing out that you were jailkept last night, so went no where and did nothing to no one.

Y u so mad?

[PeregrineV]

Actually, I'm merely pointing out that you were jailkept last night, so went no where and did nothing to no one.

Y u so mad?

You tell me with a straight face you weren't implying something else.

Actually, at this point, no.

Another game we played I was the doc and gave someone towncred when there was NK that night. Turned out scum forgot, and the scum RBer blocked the SK.

So, I was right about my target being town, but my logic was wrong.

I'm willing to think the opposite, but then the existence of only 2 NKs needs to be explained.

Also hard to see your role as "makes target unblockable" as a strictly or even mostly town role.

But, that's all I meant at the time.

[PeregrineV]

if i didnt know that majiffy was so stubborn about bad decisions id swear he was scum at this point.

If I didn't know you were a complete idiot I'd swear you were scum, too.

PV actually

is

scum so I won't bother pointing out his scumbutt-ness.

You can point it out. We'd all liek to hear it. Especailly me.

[PeregrineV]

Rest I don't have much of a read on.

StefanB, Pyrotechnics, EspeciallyTheLies, NachoKoopa

These are people you don't have much of a read on?

2 are replacements, so you have no read on them or the peoples before them?

And have you no read on 2 hydras?

[PeregrineV]

Don't give me that bullshit face. Nacho has been an entire non-entity and Pyro has been sitting on both sides of the nullfence all game.

Actually, Nacho has been posting less than I comfortable with, but the posts that are out there are very town.

Pyro claimed BP bodyguard. So in addition to their play being null, you also have no opinion on their role?

And no cases until Pie flips?

Sounds like a hostage situation....

[PeregrineV]

Pere: You have a townread on Nacho!!!!??????????

Actually, there were posts of his that were relevant and timely that came up day2 or day3 and really said "Town!" to me in the context of the other posting that day. I can't find them in ISO, and the ISO looks worse than I'd like. But I'll look again.

[PeregrineV]

If someone could kill Levi during the night that'd be great.

How about during the day?

Vote: Levi

[PeregrineV]

Not Nacho. If Levi is scum, that makes Nacho town.

Speaking of which,

VOTE: Leviathan

If someone could kill Levi during the night that'd be great.

How about during the day?

Vote: Levi

Scum flashwagon? You decide!

Interesting speculation based on 2 votes. Is the wagon on scum, or are me and Beli scum together than said "Let's lynch Levi!"?

[PeregrineV]

Prod dodge.

[PeregrineV]

Also, Peregrine and nacho are placed in the perfect partner position in DV's lists. And he danced limp wristed about Nacho whenever he talked about him.

The only thing with Levi is the way DV talked me off of him day one, but then ended up putting him in his scum list when he had to rearrange things.

Talk more about DV's "lists" and your interpretation of it.

I brought this up 50 pages ago, but let's talk more about it.

[PeregrineV]

Based on Especially's posts about the neighborhood, Levi a definitely better lynch now than before.

[PeregrineV]

Sunday check-in, but Monday is when any real actions happens.

[PeregrineV]

dunno why naxcho isnt lynched yet

what has Nacho said about it?

Why not Levi first?

Probably both scum at this point.

[PeregrineV]

Levi would be a better lynch over Nacho.

If Nacho is town, he has another day to show it.

If he's not, then he can be lynched tomorrow.

Levi has been anti-town from the first day, and has further convinced his neighbor (and replacement neighbor, for that matter) that he is scum.

[PeregrineV]

nacho has had 5 days to show it.

Do you think they are both scum?

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Titus

Now that we know that Pie-SK was truefax, Titus' claim plus the missing scumkills seem too fucking weird to me.

D1 he kills during the day, N1 only one kill comes through.
N2 Pie shoots DV, no scumkill goes through (Pyro claims to eat a shot N2 though), no claim from Titus
N3 Pie shoots Wayne, Titus claims to kill Talah (Pyro is also conveniently blocked this night)
N4 Majiffy is shot. Titus claims no shot.

There's an awkward symmetry there that I don't like. Throw in Titus' awful justification for the Talah shot and general behavior and I'm completely high on this lynch.

Let's table your Titus feelings.

Levi and Nacho feelings are all the rage at this point.

[PeregrineV]

Do you think they are both scum?

COuld be, but I'm more confident in Nacho-scum than Levi-scum.

I don't want to debate the source of the strength of your scumreads on each player at this point, but three reinforced bullet points for the "why" on each player (Levi & Nacho) would be appreciated.

[PeregrineV]

yes, titus is still scum.

No, Levi and Nacho.

[PeregrineV]

I don't want to debate the source of the strength of your scumreads on each player at this point, but three reinforced bullet points for the "why" on each player (Levi & Nacho) would be appreciated.

It comes down to them both being useless fucks, but where Levi has a meta excuse, Nacho really doesn't.

Is this why they are scum?

[PeregrineV]

Sorry, no time at work today, will have to try later from home.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: Titus

I cannot let you live to the night.

Interesting.

Is this because you think Titus is scum, or because you think he is a "bad town vig"?