Mini 1504 - Antihero Mafia REBOOT [GAME OVER]

[AngryPidgeon]

/beep-boop-zappity-doop

[AngryPidgeon]

omg majiffy

[AngryPidgeon]

Lets just wagon mollie and AA9 up to L - 1 asap. It'll be fun AND make their alignment obvious.

[AngryPidgeon]

Where the hell is buckwild.

[AngryPidgeon]

I am going to need to watch my back SO carefully at the Reckoning.

[AngryPidgeon]

Wooo, lets do this.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: flying beauties

*ducks*

[AngryPidgeon]

Thats true Grim, you didn't specify if they were good reasons or evil reasons. Could you clarify?

[AngryPidgeon]

Its mostly mollie, but AA9 also has distinguishable town rage.

[AngryPidgeon]

What do you usually do?

[AngryPidgeon]

Your opinion that Varsoon is scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

ssk why are you not voting majiffy

What is the point of this question?

And I don't want any crap about me derailing your line of questioning because this isn't one.

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean the padding in that post is obv. scum garbage.

-Zd.

Its not just scum that waffles, Zd.

[AngryPidgeon]

SSK's 60 comes off townie.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie feels like she is trying to force an emotional response to this imo.

I don't see why she finds this particularly scummy of majiffy, but I'm allowed to wagon her as a legit strategy?

[AngryPidgeon]

you should get your boyfriend to save your ass majiffy!!!

Oh its not HIS ass that is gonna need saving : P

You are asserting that Im not scumhunting (lol) but that isn't factual.

Why are you trying to get me to focus on other people?

[AngryPidgeon]

you should get your boyfriend to save your ass majiffy!!!

Oh its not HIS ass that is gonna need saving : P

You are asserting that Im not scumhunting (lol) but that isn't factual.

Why are you trying to get me to focus on other people?

why were you so focused on us getting lynched before the game even started ap?

Because I learned how to get a grasp on you in GoW mafia and 2.5Friends mafia.

Scum you is way more defensive and way more "apathetic" about early/unsupported pressure on you. Town you is basically post 109.

UNVOTE:

Sorry, I don't think Majiffy is maf though. Call it gut, but I like his presence so far.

VOTE: JKLM

[AngryPidgeon]

Cut the crap majiffy.. Get to the point.
Is your vote serious? if so, why? why do you think we are scum?

Someone's a little paranoid aren't they

VOTE: beauties

I could have sworn I voted them during RVS but I guess it never posted. Huh. That's what I get for usin my phone I suppose~

"Lol beauties are flailing, better hop on dat wagon

Also Im on my phone so excuse any lurking and/or scumposts from my slot"

[AngryPidgeon]

The case on beauties appears to hinge on meta that I haven't experienced

There is no case on beauties. JKLM just kinda snuck on that wagon as if there were.

Help me vote JKLM, thanks.

[AngryPidgeon]

@beauties- Would he really speedlynch you as scum? That seems like a bad trade.

Honestly, I doubt it.

As scum in GoW mafia he mostly pushed other people anyways. I dont see why they think this is scummy on him.

[AngryPidgeon]

If Majiffy is not in your top 3, why are you voting him? And why do you care about his read on me?

[AngryPidgeon]

Yeah I'm kinda feeling that re: JKLM, but there's no way pasch is as dumb as he's acting. I'll get back to you on that one.

Dumb for what? Saying he wants to pressure you? And MafiaSSK just IS that dumb, but pasch agreeing with him is scum?

JKLM just opportunistically joined in our wagon....

You should help me vote him then, majiffy is boring.

what is weird about this posit is that it seems rested on majiffy's and ap's terrible non-existent meta case on us....the most that has been put forth has been ap's "mollie it looks like you are feigning!!!". that's it.

I hadn't seen anything that looked townish from you, what I'm seeing now is more in line with what I was hoping to see.

Lying cat has

proven

their townieness.

Unvote

In the mean time, flying beauties/mollie thinks meta is 100%. It's not. Get over yourself.

Proven their townieness? That sounds awfully certain.

angel looks all over the place. Odd as it seems, I find that telling. Looks town.

I agree, she feels a bit like she did in my modded micro game where she got ran up early D1 (and was town).

4 solid town reads damn town is in a good position.

What? You only mentioned 2. Also I'm town as hell this game which is refreshing.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm told that fact checking is a dead art, but this is ridiculous. How are you going to keep up if you can't be bothered to check something that happened a whole page earlier? That's a special kind of lazy.

This is the only interesting thing I see from Lying Cat. Feels like "you can't PROVE I'm scum, the facts aren't there!!" where a townie would typically respond differently. Although I have seen town do this, so I'll be keeping an eye out to try and understand their playstyle this game (thinking vs feeling).

Pasch feels similarly. He feels off, nothing I can really qualify well, but haven't really seen anything interesting alignment-wise from him. I did like him agreeing with my post about JKLM, but I'm biased.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh also hi Grim! I was p impressed with you in legends of the hidden temples. So Im invoking some burden of proficiency on you

[AngryPidgeon]

ap, why are you subtly discrediting my top 2 town reads?

What were you saying before about having 4 townreads? I only say Flying cat and SSK.

Assuming those are the ones you mean, what do you mean?

I think Lying cat is meh and I I'm willing to work with an SSK townread right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why are you more concerned with my opinion on them than on Pasch/Majiffy?

[AngryPidgeon]

Why are your top two town reads not me and AP?

I don't get why they think we are trying to lynch them, but getting a good reaction was kinda predicated on them thinking it so, shrug.

[AngryPidgeon]

After a quick reread, I might be down to wagon the shit out of buckwild for lolz and win.

[AngryPidgeon]

Why is lying cat town to you?

Re 4 townreads: I'm less concerned, more confused. Why bother saying it if its private infoz anyways. Also its a bit early to be forming townblocks of such magnitude, and if you are trying to form a townblock why keep half ofthe desired members private >.>

1. Yes well we expedited the process, how about that.
8. Wrong.

[AngryPidgeon]

I've been treating majiffy like I would treat majiffy. I dont even remember talking to/about him pregame.

His contribution to the pressure on you gives me a town feel.

Forming a town core is a good idea, just dont be hasty lol. I dont see how anyone could think enough people are probstown to go about doing that right now.

And why are you talking about private townreads if 1) you are trying to get a townblock going and 2) what? Just why even bring it up if yo dont care enough to spill it.

--

Can I get some help on JKLM, his vote on you is the worst by far.

[AngryPidgeon]

[ b ] vote : player[ / b]

or

[ vote ] player [ /vote]

[AngryPidgeon]

Call it a gut scum read. I think town would give more cares about fixing their broken votes.

And who knows, he might not be useful without a little prompting

[AngryPidgeon]

I dunno. Especially given the responses from you and him on the speedlynching thing, I read him as trying to get a read on you rather than trying to get you lynched. I think he easily could have ridden the early emotional bit on you to a lynch, and the fact that he didn't suggests that he didn't know whether you were town or scum at the beginning of the wagon. Jingle doesn't think that indicative, but I've played a shitload more mafia than Jingle and I'm confident.

Is this about me, majiffy, or both?

Zd/Quil, you guys still think Cat is scummy?

[AngryPidgeon]

Call it a gut scum read. I think town would give more cares about fixing their broken votes.

And who knows, he might not be useful without a little prompting

lol

I can't believe you are saying this when you know scum are more careful with their posts than town.

jesus fucking christ

VOTE: ap

I would rather take majiffy out cos he is the more dangerous and ap is way more fun but I am good with this.

Because being careful == making sure your vote tags are correct.

Scum are careful in the things they say as in they filter what they want to express..not ...bbcode.

......

And if BW were a strong scumread Id be voting him.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because being careful == making sure your vote tags are correct.

This was sarcasm in case you missed that.

omg majiffy

Touche, I addressed majiffy on P1. I also apparently was townreading him hard here, unbeknownst to me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Lets just wagon mollie and AA9 up to L - 1 asap. It'll be fun AND make their alignment obvious.

Working with someone in RVS does not mean I think they are town, lol.
I wanted a reaction from you two. I did what was necessary to get it.

[AngryPidgeon]

You are saying that I am treating Majiffy as town as if I 'know' he is town.

yet you think we are scum together but I 'know' hes town? Am I assessing this correctly?

[AngryPidgeon]

^ Fair list, I'd just swap the FnL guys for Splintered. If JKLM is scum and Cat is town especially.

[AngryPidgeon]

Pasch, what do you make of the last Buck post. I actually feel pretty strongly one way about it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya Buckwild is not getting lynched today. The pride hes showing in his recent posts is more often than not from town.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP is a pain in the ass to try and figure out. Makes me want to call him town just to be able and move past the slot, gotta be careful of that.

Why single me out over anyone else?

Elaborate on why I am?

[AngryPidgeon]

/confirmity

Try doing the literal specs it gives you for the avatar (200 or 600 pixels or something? It's really tiny, I had to hand draw it)
That was the only way my image got trough during this avatar mess of thigs

Totally gonna wagon. I

fear

him.

Cut the crap majiffy.. Get to the point.
Is your vote serious? if so, why? why do you think we are scum?

Someone's a little paranoid aren't they

VOTE: beauties

I could have sworn I voted them during RVS but I guess it never posted. Huh. That's what I get for usin my phone I suppose~

we're all making it very easy for scum to lurk right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Darthe - ok I guess. You _did_ single me out by saying I'm hard to read. I'm trying to figure out why town-you would think to say that. I mean you aren't calling ALL your null-reads "hard to read". Its an excuse for takinga stance and it isn't necessarily scummy, but it is something I see scum do, especially with loud/weird players.

I really don't want to lynch Buck today.

So although I am pretty offended at the remarks

, this is my 3rd or fourth game only and I have not played in 10 months... I'm trying here though.

This is incredibly town. I don't put as much stock in this for older players, but newer players who express pride in their play are almost always town. The last bit of the quote is an excuse which is whatever, but newish-scum doesn't get offended when you accuse them of being useless; they get omgusy.

This is town and the wagon is shit. Someone supporting it is probably scum (Pasch/Splintered).

--

Spoiler:

Anti-heroes (town):
Buckwild
Beauties

Anti-sidekicks (sort atown)
Majiffy
MafiaSSK

IGMEOU
Darthe
Varsoon

Probably a scum in: Splintered, Pasch

Anti-villains (scum):
JKLM

Who are these people:
Grim
Cat
FnL

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie you are voting probable town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie can we compromise somewhere?

Somewhere that is not Buckwild or Majiffy?

[AngryPidgeon]

I would have expected him to try and flip pressure onto his accusers if he were scum, but thats irrelevant.

Him going out of his way to say he is offended is not something new scum feeling all guilty about having rolled scum will typically do. Ever.

[AngryPidgeon]

If Buck gets lynched and flips town today you will never hear the end of it from me. Heads up.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also Im a little offended that you think Majiffy is more dangerous scum than me

Im not flashy but I know how to get 'er done.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie can we compromise somewhere?

Somewhere that is not Buckwild or Majiffy?

no

Why are you even voting Buck? If its for being useless, can I interest you in wagoning actual lurk scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

Meh, not seeing JKLM as lurking scum, if he wanted to lurk he'd just lurk and not call any attention to it like he did in 185. I just don't see the motivation for that if he was scum.

Ok, why does town-JKLM think that scum are lurking. And who exactly does he think is doing that? Why isn't he trying to vote someone in that group if that is the case?

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie, whats your gut say about Groovey Kid atm?

[AngryPidgeon]

How do you feel about AP,

Ok, so Varsoon isn't reading the thread.

[AngryPidgeon]

How do you feel about AP,

Ok, so Varsoon isn't reading the thread.

Don't you cut me off when I ask a direct question,
And don't you discredit me like that again.


VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[AngryPidgeon]

Well that might be because you are asking questions that are pretty publicly answered already and revoting people you were already previously voting.

[AngryPidgeon]

Well that might be because you are asking questions that are pretty publicly answered already and revoting scum you were already previously voting.

Fuck I need to stop scumslipping so much.

[AngryPidgeon]

Fuck, why did I even post in here?

I think it was so you could figure out how Mollie approaches the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

Eesh a lot of posts over night.

FnL: Splintered explicitly called Cat scummy for disappearing after going under pressure. The other 2 (SSK/Pasch) just voted him for pressure but said nothing about why or why not he is scummy when they did. I don't see how you are making the leap to say that they ALSO read Cat's post but think his lurking is scummy?

Also, MafiaSSK implicates himself of the same thing here

SSK and Pasch just said they want pressure on him. Splintered was the only one to call them out on ducking the thread after getting pressured.

Why SSK over Splintered? (Pasch is definitely contributing the most, sure).

I don't disagree that JKLM is also a good choice

, especially looking back now and seeing a complete lack of anything useful. But I'd rather lynch people for what they do say than what they don't say this early in the game.

That said, JKLM, your ice is getting thinner. We won't wait forever.

This reeks of scum-scum interaction.
Especially the bolded part. Don't think there's a more roundabout way to express an opinion on someone.

GG

Sorry

I kind of agree, but I'd still much rather lynch JKLM than Pasch. He sounds awfully hesitant to take a firm stance on JKLM. There is acknowledging that JKLM is scummy without outright saying it and an excuse to not vote him at the same time. Really weird. Not even proposing people who are better alternatives.

he never follows my votes, ever

So you think Majiffy intentionally avoids voting with you? Its not possible that 1/12 times he will happen to think the same person is scum and vote it with you?

Thinking Darthe is town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Wow, speaking of overreactions
Grim you are asking a lot of pointed questions to Pasch but it seems like you've kind of decided hes scum and are just rolling with that.

It's not a method I persue. It occured naturally.

Why is this important? Pasch doesn't like your playstyle, so what. This feels a bit over defensive. You are clarifying that you aren't INTENTIONALLY doing what Pasch considers bad/scummy as if that is a valid defense?

Your sentiment feels genuine but also I dont get the relevance. Scum upset at being called out for the wrong reasons?

I don't actually think that pride is a town-tell like he does,

Dunno if this is Quil or Zd, but let me tell you. I don't subscribe to heuristics nearly as much as most people. But this one is one that has never failed me that I can recall. Its certainly fakeable, but new players won't because its not something they are aware of.

[AngryPidgeon]

Then why are you antagonizing him, lol.

[AngryPidgeon]

Are we roleplaying the whole antihero thing?

Im town aligned, but I don't express typical town-aligned qualities you'd expect from a townie.

[AngryPidgeon]

You talk like scum

. And like a

little bitch/b], for that matter. Almost sounds so... defensive? Beligirent?
What do you even know about my mannerisms? We've never even played a game together.

Ok Team Grim, can you guys tell me then what about Pasch the underlined is about? And why do you still think he is town despite seeing scummy qualities?

[AngryPidgeon]

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't see how an overreaction on Pasch's part makes him a little bitch, especially if you are maintaining that his overreaction is some form of scum-flail.

Pasch did address his vote switch in part by saying that reads at this stage of the game should not be very firm. It is at least in line with his behavior so far, whether or not hes full of it remains to be seen.

Ok, well either actively or subconsciously you are still looking for and acquiring townreads. I dont see why the distinction is incredibly important.

By calling out I meant Paschendale talking about you in general in 273 which you responded to. He did point out some aspects of your posting that he didn't like, although looking back his stance on you is ultimately pretty wishy-washy.

--

Best information lynch: Paschendale.

Best scum lynch: JKLM

Best policy lynch: Varsoon

Not to be lynched today: Beauties, Majiffy, Buck, Darthe, FnL

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm not mentally able to process that wall right now, I'll get back after work.

[AngryPidgeon]

If you're pulling it out of your ass I'd appreciate it if you shove it back up there.

The butterfly that comes to rest on your shoulder is more beautiful than the one pinned down on a cushion in a little glass cage.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, I can't read that wall right now - gotta focus. I'll be back after work.

Also I wish you had said "poetic justice" so I could reference that justice is buldermar

Fun fact, if you type define:buldermar into google, its like the 6th hit or so oO. Even google knows that buldermar is synonymous with justice.

[AngryPidgeon]

Do you think avoidance of the thread is a scumtactic?

I don't think its intentional, but some people are definitely 'ashamed' of being scum. Have you ever played scum before?

[AngryPidgeon]

Let me correct that. Have you ever played scum in any COMPLETED games?

[AngryPidgeon]

@Majiffy: I'm staring at 273 but really don't see what's so town about it. All it is is a discrediting of my views through a subtle mix of misrep through selective referal to arguments and emo-play on the personal level. Tell me what you see.

Fucks sake, you've both accused each other of misrepping.

And there is nothing particularly interesting about Pasch saying your opinion aren't backed up well. You did mostly quote a lot of things and say either 'agree' or 'disagree' which is ez for scum to do in a catchup.

[AngryPidgeon]

in other news, aa and mollie continue to be wrong.

@Grim: I'm not asking so I can look it up. Have you not ever felt -reluctant- to post as scum? Some people will post as town whenever they are around but feel _ashamed_ or otherwise _unmotivated_ as scum.

I'm curious why you asked Beauties:

Do you think avoidance of the thread is a scumtactic?

Curious why you are questioning Mollie's pressure on JKLM here. Did it just not occur to you that scum may have more reason to not post than town? Or do you not believe this is a valid tell? (If not why not outright say it instead of asking mollie about a fairly commonplace belief)

I ask if you've been scum before because I know I had purposely not posted as scum before despite thinking I _should_ or will have to.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie might need to be policy lynched.

omg majiffy you wouldn't post that if you were town this game

this is so opportunistic

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie you really need to take a step back and think without bias.

I think you are interpreting banter as scummy when its really usually the opposite.

[AngryPidgeon]

Huh, Darthe might actually be a jklm buddy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh. This post. It feels really strange that he categorized the lynches this way. It just doesn't seem like a town mindset. Plus, it gives him a post he can reference if he gets a chance to lynch one of these three (Pasch is very town by the way so back off).

Why mention me and not Grim who is...actually the guy trying to get Pasch lynched?

Im just saying if Pasch is scum, Grim is very probably town. Also hes just interacted with a lot of people which is good. I'm not advocating lynching him, just making a note of what came to my head.

I'll be around in a bit to catchup.

[AngryPidgeon]

Are we roleplaying the whole antihero thing?

Im town aligned, but I don't express typical town-aligned qualities you'd expect from a townie.

Also, this post is far too vague for my liking. Obviously in an antihero game a townie won't have town-aligned qualities. At best this is awkwardly worded. At worst you're crumbing traitor.

Seriously guys, look at my above post and help me lynch this scumbag.

Pedit:

-Stup

This was a sarcastic joke, poking at Guyett for saying Pasch was town yest antagonizing and voting him. Although apparently they mispoke about thinking hes town. Context is key.

[AngryPidgeon]

Then there's his scummy attempt to derail any legitimate questioning about himself.

Mollie had already give her opinion on me many times. Varsoon was askingfor something that had already been stated many times. There was no line of 'legitimate questioning' about me. Varsoon asked beauties a vague question about me which served no discernible purpose and their reaction "We think AP is scum" was already a well-known opinion of theirs. Sooo.....What 'legitimate questioing' got derailed. Varsoon didn't go anywhere after they DID respond to him.

Not really. Your calling it opportunistic is much more opportunistic.

I was impersonating and anticipating Mollie's reaction to that Majiffy post. I disagree that PLing Mollie is a good idea, but I dont think Majiffy was all that serious about it anyways and was just trying to get them to shape up.

Majiffy is still probstown.

Throwing weak suspicion that could serve if he needs to vote Darthe. How about you explain your reasoning here, AP? And I thought he was in your "not to be lynched today" pile?

I don't want to lynch Darthe today.

Read that post - hes saying "I hope you aren't a PR"..the fuck is darthe speculating on JKLMs role for. It reads like coaching "Hey JKLM, a PR claim likely wont be believable here" is basically what was said which...I don't see why Darthe bothered to alert him to unless he wanted JKLM to make a smarter claim. If JKLM flips maf, look at Darthe. If not, then I got nothing on him.

To summarize, he has made a lot of fluff posts that I feel have only been to make him appear active. The extreme Buck defense, the bad deflection, and other quotes above should be sufficient to prove that AP is the best lynch for today. Who's in?

lmao. In your opinion, has Majiffy been fluffing at all or is it just me this game? ^^ This quote is eyebrow raising levels of terrible posting.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'll disagree with 389. Playing bait is a really easy way to kickstart reactions, but that is definitively different from intentionally posting bad content. Thus, 1 is accurate but 2 is meh imo.

Problem is we sort of have to lynch to find out if the player is blowing smoke..

Have fun with the suicide play, hope you aren't a PR because you just boned any chance of a safe claim.

This is the quote of Darthe's.

1) We _have_ to lynch JKLM to confirm/deny his gambit? You don't lynch someone for that reason, you lynch them if you think they are scum, but Darthe is avoiding taking a hard stance on JKLM's alignment by saying we have to lynch to confirm his gambit? Thats just weird thinking.

2) Re the underlined: Why is darthe saying JKLM boned any chance of a "safeclaim"..... If JKLM is town, he isn't safeclaiming anything... And if JKLM is mafia, Darthe basically just told him that he should avoid claiming PR because it wont be credible. The fuck?

[AngryPidgeon]

To Splintered:

You think Varsoon's questioning of me was "legitimate". In your mind, where was he going with it if not just asking them for an opinion they had already stated? Why didn't he go anywhere with it after they DID respond?

Why do YOU think Majiffy is town?

What caused you to change your scumread on Cat to null?

[AngryPidgeon]

Terrible misrep by AP there, I didn't say safeclaim. I saod safe claim.

At first I was like :

Spoiler:

but then I was like:

Spoiler:

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh wait, yeah, I -do- feel good about this.

Vote: The Grim Reaper

I'm pretty busy now, but I'll try to post something worthwhile later today.

@flying Grim wouldn't be opposed to a AP lynch, I need to do an ISO on him before making up my own mind.
~G

You guys aren't just panicking over Varsoon voting you are you?

Because your stance on me makes no sense.

What discussions have I abandoned that don't suit me? And really elaborate on that. Im going to talk about what Im interested in with my time in the thread and not things I dont care about..much like what everyone does ever.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok, to be fair I haven't read your wall yet >.>

I find it difficult to get on after work when FF is sponging all my time.

But I haven't forgotten.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP: Does anyone panic when I vote them?

Ehhh?

I dunno, its odd that you opt to switch from me to them and all of a sudden Guyett is all "Ya we would lynch AP, ok lets do that" from nowhere.

I realize though that I did never get back to them on that one post and I can kinda see them finding that scummy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Pasch if you had to vote someone other than Buckwild, who would it be.

Because hes not getting lynched today.

[AngryPidgeon]

Lying Cat, you also need a better use of your vote. Where else would you vote?

[AngryPidgeon]

this isn't you!!
You always read stuff and have very strong cases and assumptions on players. there is whole lot of town you is missing from you in this game. I am going to have chat with mollie about this. I am leaning scum on you...

I'll pick it up by Tomorrow to be sure.

Also I can say now that I was partly avoiding posting at night because I was scum in NY 165 (which just ended) and was site-lurking a bit to avoid having to post in it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Are you kidding AP, why would anyone can get panic over Varsoon votes. Does he ever had any real case in this game so far on his votes?
are you trying back up Varson dumb play by chance?

I already explained this...

GG/G showed no interest in me really until Varsoon unvotes *ME* and votes *THEM* and Guyett immediately swoops in to say something that looks an awful lot like they are trying to get Varsoon off of them and back on to me? Its weird.

Varsoon I have never played with before. Where he is placing his attention seems consistent and makes sense to me. I would lynch him as a compromise today but I'm really only interested in JKLM or Splintered as wagons that would not be compromises for me right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

I can't recall a singular Belisaious post other than him talking about my use or disuse of contractions which I can't fathom is all that interesting, but it seems like the sort of uninteresting that scum are unlikely to waste everyone's time with.

[AngryPidgeon]

My lynchpool for today: Paschendale, Splintered Cell, JKLM and well, I'd hop along for a Belisarius-lynch as well. Never liked MafiaSSK either.

I could lynch Shadow as well.

But then Angry Pidgeon gives me pause. He's been pushing for a JKLM-lynch hard, a reason why I was actually liking Pidgeon. But on the other hand he's been actively supporting Paschendale by interfering in my discussions with him in the most unhelpful way imaginable

I have a townlean on Pasch. I still am not really satisfied with your reasons for finding him scummy. You said arounf this point that all of your scumreads are lurkers and not contributing much....But that ain't Pasch. Pasch is applying himself and stating opinions even if unpopular; hes putting himself out there. I'm a little wary about his townread on me, but I don't see why you think he's scummy other than a few buzzwords you threw around and lets be honest - discrediting is not a scum tell.

Lynch me please if it means you will listen to me.

There's a lot of cross accusing going on, so much so that at some point everybody thinks everyone is scum and everyone is town.

There is no clear scum here from people's arguments

, so the third scum was tricky. Although I can narrow it down:

This is still scum trying to appear useful. "Lynch me plz" is not a towntell and the underlined is just a ridiculous refusal to take a stance on things. He then tries to prove his worth to the town by being very explicit about narrowing down scum but his list is just waffles and IIoA.

VARSOON: I don't want to touch this because of all the emotion. While it seems to clear up, if life has ya down, subbing for your own sake may be good. I've done it before, mafia can be violent a frustrating at times. If it's all an act than it's just blatant ATE and should be voted as scum, but I'm willing to give him time to work that all out.

This is smoke. This is not him explaining reasons for why Varsoon is in his scumpile that he is pitching. This is a scummy who can't think of anything to say about a weird player so he is just going to give us some IIoA instead.

[AngryPidgeon]

soooooo what do you think of majiffy calling for a pl on us?

I disagree that PLing Mollie is a good idea, but I dont think Majiffy was all that serious about it anyways and was just trying to get them to shape up.

[AngryPidgeon]

Townish: Beauties, Majiffy, Buck
Lean town: Beli, FnL, Pasch

Scum: JKLM, Splintered

I have some ideas about the rest, but Im not confident enough to throw them out in a formal list.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im going to feel dumb as bricks if ^ that ends up being a scumpost.

P-edit: ninjad

[AngryPidgeon]

I was impressed but I would never admit it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Beauties, summarize your read on Darthe for me.

[AngryPidgeon]

Majiffy, if we call Mollie town more, maybe she'll get NKd and we WONT have to PL her

[AngryPidgeon]

I would rather lynch Varsoon than Belisaurius if people aren't willing to lynch obvious scum today.

[AngryPidgeon]

Majiffy, read on FnL?

[AngryPidgeon]

JKLM did you go into this game wanting to try this gambit? If not, when/why did you think to do it?

[AngryPidgeon]

Not buying it, sorry if you were town.

UNVOTE: Especially the Lies
VOTE: JKLM

[AngryPidgeon]

Lol, well I guess that actually is the hammer.

[AngryPidgeon]

You should vote from the GG account.
I mean. Just remove any ambivalence so AH doesnt have to hurr durr about whether it counted.

[AngryPidgeon]

(and by GG account I mean hydra account, I need coffee).

[AngryPidgeon]

But I guess I just intentionally lied about where my prev vote was so WHATEVER.

[AngryPidgeon]

[AngryPidgeon]

Regardless of what happens, please look into ETL tomorrow - thats a scum slot.

If JKLM flips maf, Darthe should be vig'd/investigated/we

[AngryPidgeon]

^ That might be scum.

Arguing the technicality of the term rather than defending the decision.

[AngryPidgeon]

I cant even tell if JKLM has been hammered tbh. Id check VCs but Im

scum lazy

partying with Majiffy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok I counted its Me, Majiffy, Beli, Buck, Pasch L - 2.

At this point, JKLM is mafia and needs to die. And this game is becoming such a cluster that it really is time to rally and take the plunge because we are on the verge of posh mafia'ing up this game if the day drags much more.

[AngryPidgeon]

majiffy, dunno, depends how jklm flips. a jklm scum flip make us reevaluate.

Right ok, but not me. Got it.

Glad to know you have any intentions of working with me this game Mollie.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie the fact of the matter is that I strongly disagree with most of your reads this game. Yo have been scumreading me since P1 so you and AA asserting that is because "Im not scumhunting" is really just not factual. At best you are just suffering from confirmation bias and cant think of any concrete reason for your belief that Im scum so we get this vague generalization from you that even attempts to discredit my reads which you asked for.

Im just going to do this live then - what did you make of my reads list since you asked for it? Do you seriously think Majiffy was supporting a PL on you? You are an emotional player, I think you'll find the tone of his post to obviously not be indicative of that. Instead of realizing obvious shit that is going on around you, you won't let it go and instead are trying to pin my (lack of) response to it as scummy when I DID address it immediately in a humorous way to and later clarified that all that happened WAS humor.

Like nothing you are doing is asking me to dialogue about any player. All I get from you is that Im butt buddies with Majiffy and that buck is a partner. Like when Varsoon asked you about reads you frantically go off about that and plead for his assistance? I can take so much chanting "ap is scum ap is scum ap is scum" before deciding its just better to tune it out to prevent lolposhmafia from happening again with anti-town bullshit abound because you wont even stop to follow up on things you ask from me.

[AngryPidgeon]

And now you are totally ready to buddy up to Majiffy after this JKLM flip and the guy who has been shoving this harder than anyone is still scum.

Like I would expect scum you to posture about the JKLM flip wrt my alignment at least, you just not even acknowledging that I have a huge part in it but giving Majiffy olive branches and towncred over it is...

tl;dr

[AngryPidgeon]

and yes, I know how both of you work as scum and I could totally see you

2 ballsing it up and powering your way through

What am I even powering through?

You and AA JUST finished asserting that Im not doing anything and therefore am scummy.

What the hell happened to make you think the underlined was happening? And if you DO believe that then surely a JKLM maf flip would make you reconsider but clearly not.

Oh and ETL is buddying up to me since I've correctly id'd her slots alignment. GG no re.

[AngryPidgeon]

Some interesting reactions...

If you are going to advertise that you were fishing for reactions without actually saying it, then you sohuld probably say what you got out of those reactions. Im sure glad you found anything that happened in the last page interesting cause Im still stuck on JKLM=scum, majiffy = town, mollie = herpdederpderpdo.

[AngryPidgeon]

it isn't confirmation bias, scum just like to discredit town's reads that way by calling it that.

Fact: You have been calling me scum all game since I suggested wagoning you.

Fiction: You have any reason to believe Im not scumhunting. The irony here is that I did that to get a read on you and I did and you have been scumreading me for doing that......and now Im just not scumhunting. Ok mollie.

If you were paying attention this game, Im fairly content with my reads for today and would like to avoid crap DL lynches and "omg AP" wall wars like what is now happening.

Paranoia about being NKd? What the fuck are you expecting me to post "OMG Im defo going to die tonight" in every other post? Its Day 1. I know that I might get NKd. Im not going to waste everyones time complaining about it. And given the moderate suspicion on me, I don't think its EXTREMELY likely. My ego really isnt that big; I just fake it sometimes.

"you don't bait a bear and get to wonder why the bear tries to rip your throat out afterwards. sorry."
I dont even have words for this.

"I told you people that uber goober was scum in posh"
Good for you! And I told everyone that Vifam ws scum all game but no one would lynch that shit because of all the spam and anti-town bullshit largely coming from town players.

I've been tuning you out because you have brought nothing to the table for me to work with and I am telling yo precisely why I believe you are town and honoring your requests as you make them, so no. Im not ignoring you.

P-edit: Mollie I hope you reevaluate your life choices after this game.

[AngryPidgeon]

last post I am going to make for a while unless ap bothers to respond

wow, subtle implication that Im avoiding posting. Ok Mollie.

I would expect you to leave a stronger trail cos you know that some people will look back on it.

Horseshit. I have been very explicitly eliminating people from the lynch pool today as I go. I even got shit over "omg AP is defending Buck so hard they are buddies etc"

Re town reads: Actually I wouldn't mind talking about Lying Cat. Gun to my head, its a town slot, but I can't really pull anything I find interesting out of their posting to back that thought up.

[AngryPidgeon]

Jiffy and AP, let's talk about something other than Mollie. Unless you actually want to lynch her, let's talk about who we should lynch.

I was like just now begging people to hammer JKLM so we can move on from this crap that Mollie is stirring up with me.

If mollie wasn't obvious town I'd call her goading me into wall wars an excellent scumtactic from her.

So posh.

Would lynch ETL for splintered being an opportunistic lurkbutt and ETL trying to sound eager to help by asking people to avoid hammering and giving way too many bothers about how her posts are received:

Probably premature but checking in. Continuing my reading now (lunch break).

I'm on page 5 or something. Useless caca so far. Or at least I cant get anything useful out of it.

I mean come on. She apparently has some reads from it but we get this general assertion that is all crap anyways?
Scum poasting at its finest.

[AngryPidgeon]

UNVOTE: ;

VOTE: Varsoon

Your predictions about JKLM flipping town and the wagon being all scum are simply fascinating. I'm sure all the scum are clumped on this singular ML.

And your last post is the emptiest most vapid pretense of being helpful I've ever encountered.

JKLM's reaction to being 'hammered' is null as fuck and was ruined by all the surrounding crap involved anyways.
Grim is scummier for it because?

And a snooty rhetorical question over why you arent voting JKLM; lovely.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie I'm sking you nicely. Explain what is town about LC for me like I'm 5. I told you that they are a gut read that I feel a little uncomfortable about. I'm looking for some reassurance. Also I have a hard time believing you are less interested in that than my Varsoon vote.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie I'm sking you nicely

Oops, dat SK slip.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie: You aren't reaching out!! What do you think of our town reads??
AP: Actually ya talk to me about LC.
Mollie: You clearly aren't reading!!!!!!

If I have a killing power then I am policy vig'ing Mollie tonight. Officially over it. SO over it.

P-edit: Oh shit

[AngryPidgeon]

Wow Varsoon, that is some awfully contrived posting there. The entire JKLM wagon couldnt have been scum with 6 people on it and you definitely do maintain that all 3 scum were on it.

Focusing on the technicalities of language is a very scummy defense to make.

I'm told that fact checking is a dead art, but this is ridiculous. How are you going to keep up if you can't be bothered to check something that happened a whole page earlier? That's a special kind of lazy.

This quote still bothers me from LC's iso. Its very pointed and kinda lacks a followup opinion on Splintered which given that Lc is bothering to bring him up is odd.

@mollie
I have grim as probtown. His play matches the game we played together, even if that was only half a day phase.

Also this is very vague and I can easily see LC simply asserting that Grim is town for 'meta' as scum if he knows Grim is town because Grim likely bother to question why.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also this is very vague and I can easily see LC simply asserting that Grim is town for 'meta' as scum if he knows Grim is town because Grim likely

[won't]

bother to question why.

accidentally a word.

[AngryPidgeon]

Especially in this case, where his vote for me betrayed inconsistencies and false accusations, some of which make it seem as though he knows the result of JKLM's flip prematurely.

I believe there is a better than not chance you are white-knighting JKLM.

There was absolutely zero reason to believe his reaction to the 'hammer' meant nothing when there is no clear indication he believed he was hammered at all.

Re wagon: ok. So there is basically 1 scummy person shoving that wagon which makes JKLM probstown to you.

What did you make of his 'gambit'?

[AngryPidgeon]

I wrote that my biggest scum-read

s

are pushing it the hardest.

Grim is no really pushing it and only vaguely votes it, clearly caring more about Pasch/Beli or whatever.

Beauties isnt touching it probably cause Majiffy and I are on it which is hilariously dumb.

Im really the onl read of yours shoving it, so the bolded is kinda not true.

[AngryPidgeon]

I misunderstood that one sentence.

The point still stnads that he is claiming that JKLM is town because his top scumreadS are pushing it when really only I am.

And he thinks JKLM's reaction to the hammer was townish which is completely absurd. There is zero reason for Varsoon to be so sure of JKLM over this; hes posturing on it because I am on the wagon. Either hes trying to pain the wagon scummy for after JKLM flips or is just trying to save JKLM. Place your bets now.

[AngryPidgeon]

It's interesting to see that, after I've made my accusations and held my ground, you lost a good bit of the venom and furor that your earlier posts had.

There is no actual way you believe this statement.

Lol Buddy Molly harder Varsoon.

Why is Grim scummy for the fake hammer?

P-edit: Im explaining your motives that explain your irrational and unjustified defense over JKLM. It is a conclusion I have drawn from the nature of your JKLM defense and your reported reasons for townreading him.

[AngryPidgeon]

Grim's antagonistic, puts too much weight on certain pieces of evidence, is trying to become a dominant town-voice, and has already played the card of being opposed to but still capable of supporting policy lynches and low-info lynches.

All of that rings as scum for me.

This is your entire case on Grim.

Trying to become a dominant town voice is something townies usually do.
Who did he support PLs on? They've been making enormous cases on Pasch and Beli IIRC.
Supporting low-info lynches is certainly not scummy and is incredibly subjective in the first place to the point of being ridiculous.

[AngryPidgeon]

The actuality is that you can't believe that I believe in something.

Well if I were scum and you were town then I would believe you, so?

How about you actually justify a singular read in this game.

Read #1: Grim.

Go.

[AngryPidgeon]

Mollie is probably so excited right now she cant even type proper.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey Mollie, you do realize that two of the people you've wanted to lynch and have been QQing about all game are voting each other.

Thought you'd like to help us 1v1 each other.

[AngryPidgeon]

You weren't even voting me until I commented on your JKLM stance and voted you over it.

Your reaction is not making my vote feel misplaced.

I'll talk about who and what I want to talk about.

All I've heard from you is that I misrepped you and I attempted to discredit you. Do you focus on anyone other than yourself?

[AngryPidgeon]

All I've heard from you is that I misrepped you and I attempted to discredit you. Do you focus on anyone other than yourself?

In fact, before this just recent bout- the only thing you said about your top scumread is that I discredited your question to Mollie. And you never followed up on that Q when they did respond, so I was correct in predicting that you weren't going anywhere with it.

And you have not provided any actual content towards determining lynches or clearing townies.

Everyone that's okay with a Varsoon lynch better explain why they are.

Because you guys are pretty damn scummy for all just saying "Yeah Varsoon would be a mighty fine lynch" without articulating why, or putting votes there.

So lets talk about this. I want to know why you think Grim is scummy, particularly over the fake-hammer.

You are pretty damn scummy for just saying "Yeah Grim/AP would be a mighty fine lynch" without articulating why.

--

Saying that I misrepped you is a cop out reason for this suspicion and I admit that I misinterpreted your post. You are still scummy for a myriad of reasons that you are actively refusing to address.

P-edit: .....................................................................

Obviously I meant that you were not voting me WHEN I VOTED YOU.

[AngryPidgeon]

Im not accusing him of omgus.

[AngryPidgeon]

Besides, I've spent the last hour justifying my read and vote on you, AP.

Don't try to put the pressure elsewhere, or direct this someplace else.

Hes spent no time justifying his vote on anything, certainly not me.

And his vote is only currently on me because I voted him which is undeniably true.

Pre-edit: Would lynch ETL

[AngryPidgeon]

676 ruins a chance at further reaction from JKLM.
693 adds nothing, but makes it look like Grim is doing something.

Actually on reread, I sort of agree.

I interpreted the QH post to be calling the hammer not "quick" rather a "normal" hammer, but I see your point. I did have to stop and think at that point about what was going on and whether or not there was a hammer.

I actually got fake hammered as scum recently and my reaction was essentially what JKLM did - don't bother to check VCs and assert that I was telling the truth all along. So I don't trust his reaction to it at all.

I definitely agree that Grim's followup served no purpose and I want to know exactly what he glistened from the reactions that prompted him to say that.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm happy to elaborate if you like, but its a waste of time to provide in depth reasoning on a townread.

Not really? If you want to convince people not to lynch a townread of yours it makes sense to explain it. Even if they aren't under immediate pressure. Plus it makes your view of the thread easier to understnad and you easier to read if you explain your townreads.

I guess your reaction felt off re Splintered, but I don't see it as a major point so ok. If misinformation is not an interesting tell either way to you then your response makes sense.

I don't know where AP from ten pages ago is, but whoever replaced him is fast climbing the list. More on that later.

[AngryPidgeon]

Majiffy, you aren't scum with the derp sisters are you?

Have to check.

[AngryPidgeon]

What are you waiting for from Mollie?

But ok

[AngryPidgeon]

ETL chooses me because we already have a QT together describing ways Majiffy can go fuck himself

Damn, you're good. Chose you without even seeing this.

Update: I'm on page 15 (every fuckin time I get a few more pages further yall post 10 more). Also angrybird, lay off my style. If my bubbly helpful nature is all you can come up with to scumread me when I was all of 4 pages in then I suggest you go back to the newbie queue. <3

Ok, so as of page 14ish or whatever, Grim Reaper's post are really bugging me something fierce. Consider him my top suspect at the moment. I'll clarify and post full reads list as soon as I finish catching up tonight.

On Majiffy v. Flying Beauties: I get good feels from mollie's posts and they remind me of her town games. At first, I was pretty willing to trust her read on Majiffy (and honestly, going in, if she didn't give me scum vibes, I was hoping to get a peg on jiffy from her), except now I kind of feel like she's been tunneling. As far as his alignment goes, I have no fucking clue, but if one of him and angrybird is scum, I think the other would be town only because I don't see scum so openly buddying a partner, and the buddy buddy shit between the two of them is strange to say the least. Both could be town but I

don't

think both could be scum.

Ummmm what else.... that's all for now off the top of my head and I'll have more later.

This is a p suspicious post there, EtL.

A justification for not posting very much..failing to realize that I thought Splintered was scum before you replaced him and trying to start something petty with me by telling me to go back to the newbie Q (I cried a lot just now, its very distressing).

I dont see where you get this (Majiffy v Beauties) dichotomy from when really its just been Beauties calling me/majiffy scum all game and me/majiffy getting annoyed at them.

Why were you willing to trust Mollie's read on majiffy and what made you decide she was not credible in this particular game?

[AngryPidgeon]

Also, I never said she wasn't credible, I said I got the feeling that she has been tunneling, because after about page 9 or so, it didn't seem like she was willing to consider any other possibility.

Yes you did. By tunneling you are saying that she is not impartially reading him well which is to say she is biased and not a credible source of Majiffy reads.

But I'm thinking I was wrong about this EtL read

Half the people here are making probtown posts and the other half are just kinda around.

Thinking JKLM/Varsoon + {Grim/Darthe/Pasche/EtL?/Cat??}

[AngryPidgeon]

I sort of town read you when you said ap might be scum but looking back there is a distinct lack of conviction that you actually believe this.

lmfao.

I cant think of a more fitting end to this day.

[AngryPidgeon]

Keep on, keep on towning on through the night, Mollie

VOTE: JKLM

[AngryPidgeon]

If I call Majiffy scum in my next post will you town read me?

[AngryPidgeon]

Angry is scum because look at who he thinks is scum: me, varsoon, and NEARLY EVERYONE ELSE. Scum trying to leave mislynched open.

It really just that I have moderate to strong townreads on everyone not listed there.

I also sort of thing EtL and Cat are town but not strongly enough to be ok not thinking about them.

[AngryPidgeon]

its*
think*

[AngryPidgeon]

Basically this:

Town: Beauties, Majiffy, FnL, Buck, Beli
Lean town: Cat, FtL

Thats all I got. Everyone else isn't really doing anything obviously townie. Im thinking JKLM actually was town based on his post.

[AngryPidgeon]

That is v interesting.

[AngryPidgeon]

I did not know JKLM was town all along.
I've been especially adamant on expressing this.
I've SINCERELY THOUGHT that JKLM was VERY LIKELY town since his claim, which was genuine.

It wasn't and I'm glad you have been adamant about this, makes me feel much better about your good intentions.

[AngryPidgeon]

Antihero, I refuse to play this game with people who don't have reading comprehension.
Please replace me out of the game.

Wow,really? After actively refusing to justify any opinions you hold? Bye.

[AngryPidgeon]

I want content from AP and beli immediately.

Hi mom.

You can hear from me when my heads not swimming from other distractions and general need of sleep.

Why did you call out Beli in bold after stating this and not me?

[AngryPidgeon]

Varsoon feels like scum mad at being caught for the NK spec.

[AngryPidgeon]

How is it taking you this long to read the thread?!?

Some people play at a slower pace...its not alignment indicative so why ask?

So, either he's extremely inconsiderate and selfish town, or he's scum using "RL" to excuse his blatant uselessness.

Ok, you don't sound very convinced that Varsoon is scum here. Why do you think its the latter and not the former?

Except at the time of the above post here, the JKLM wagon was gonna go through, and you knew that. So, better change tune, right? "JKLM is scum!"

I don't really read that the same? It sounded like he was saying that those people were going to get lynched (for being useless, scumy, w/e) and that town would lose if they were all MLs.

I dislike the AtF from him here, but you hinging a case on this is a bit weird/forced. I never got the impression that Varsoon seriously thought JKLM was scum.

I'm actually slightly relieved to know about FnL. I had gut problems with him. All sorts of conflicting reads.

Who did you expect to die then?

I do find it suspicious that he both pushed and distanced himself from the wagon at numerous times.

Why don't I remember Varsoon pushing JKLM at all?

I remember him howling about me being scum and howling about Grim being scum and thats all.

[ur;=http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p5403044]853[/url] is terrible. Varsoon is extremely self conscious about his appearance here and providing selfmeta that doesn't have direct relevance to what is going on other than to discredit his town play and reads? Doesn't add up to the confidence he's exuding elsewhere and this post feels out of place in general.

Anyway, it's clear that the kill was made to leverage a wagon against at least one of the people F&L wrongly thought was scum.

WTH? There is no way Varsoon thinks this over thinking that FnL was killed because they mentioned supporting me. He is seriously going to play a victim card here and imply the FnL death was a setup? No.

[AngryPidgeon]

WHEN THE FUCK DID I VOTE FOR JKLM?

Jesus, get your story straight before you go around trying to smear shit in everyone's ears, why don't you?

This is more what I was getting at, Grim. I hadn't really read this page when I posted, I saw mollie's list of people that FnL suspected and saw Varsoon flipping out after Mollie voted him.
But this is not a town motivated attitude. This is somebody playing a victim card and throwing (probably genuine) emotion around to dissuade votes. Scum upset at being caught for the wrong reason.

[AngryPidgeon]

OF COURSE YOU WOULD FUCKING CALL MY VOTE AN OMGUS VOTE TO DISCREDIT IT, YOU MISREPRESENTING SACK OF LIES.

Things varsoon dislikes about EtL.
-Her case and ESPECIALLY the lies.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh, and Vars, don't start with the level shit again. I'll vote you on principle if you pull the same crap you did in Diffusion.

This is not scum with Varsoon. I strongly doubt Pasch-scum would forget about Varsoon being on/off the lynch wagon and I strongly doubt Pasc-scum would take such a waffly stance on a buddy like that.

879 is a good post. EtL feels honest here and a bit genuinely stunned by Varsoon's reaction to her case and her gut-reaction is to reinforce that her case is concrete and try to understand what she perceives as an overreaction. Strongly doubt this is scum with Varsoon or, lesser extent, at all.

WHO SUMMONS ME?

Did anybody else get a Warcraft II throwback when reading this?

[AngryPidgeon]

Nachomamma8 replaces Varsoon, effective immediately.

Welcome!

Heh. Well Nacho is very useful as town - if you are town, please tryhard for a while Nacho. This game and your slot is in the fast lane.

[AngryPidgeon]

Town: Beauties, Majiffy, EtL, Pasch, Buck

Scum: Nacho

Mollie, I'd still like to talk to yo about Lying Cat. I can't shake this post. Call it gut, but I feel like LC is trying to hedge a scumread on me. He even opens today by calling out me/Beli (FnL suspects) and it just feels like fishing for which ML has the most support.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh and I figured out what about EtL feels good. If you look at her posts today, her train of thought makes sense. On top of that, it feels like she is suffering from some confirmation bias on Varsoon, but he probably is scum so meh. Still her push feels incredibly genuine.

Nacho get the hell in here. Im only not voting you because you are too valuable to mislynch on the offchance you are town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Angry Pidgeon, you are here? Can we interact?

Speak quickly outlander. (I really need to actually do some work while Im at work >.>)

[AngryPidgeon]

To get things started: Why are we not present in your reads list?

Unsure what to make of you right now.

I'm having a hard time resolving some dissonance. Like that wallpost you made about Pasch feels like too much effort and... too much lightheartedness? to come from scum if I apply Occam's razor.

But I don't see Pasch as lolobvscum and your push on him feels off. Also Varsoon/you is not a team I have ruled out at all.

Truth be told, I really need to pay more attention to you, pasch, and darthe. Kinda murky middle of people I don't know what to make of.

What is your opinion on LC since you are here?

[AngryPidgeon]

Why is Paschendale among your townreads in 901, while shortly after admitting you haven't been paying attention to him and restricting yourself to calling him "not lolobvscum"?

Because you are calling him lolobvscum; I find the intensity of your push to be disturbing which is what I was trying to make known there. I can understand not thinking hes town, but I really don't see what he has done to earn death-tunneling from you. Explain what pings you about him briefly? Not a case, just whatcaught your eye about him.

I don't think Pasch is scum with Varsoon based on his treatment of him today and I think Varsoon is scum, so. Pasch is somebody I'm not feeling very town from on his own accord though.

P-edit: Thats exactly what I was saying - his rage feels fake. Everybody? apologized for any factual misrep about him being on the wagon I think. EtL was defensive about it in a very genuine way in 879 and Varsoon won'teven meet her half way to acknowledge the rest of her case?

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm fully aware. Its not a read I'm super comfortable with, but I like his interactions with Varsoon today.

[AngryPidgeon]

Fair enough. I'll keep that in mind when I'm ISO skimming later. Cases are flashy and decorated. Trying to understand what made people want to make them is where the truth lies.

I feel a burden of proficiency on myself - and I take most pride in having accurate townlists. No sure if that will help you understand where I'm coming from with my paranoia, but there it is.

[AngryPidgeon]

To that end, why is Cat town to you?

[AngryPidgeon]

Angry Pidgeon, to be frank, your inconsistnecy in that read on PAschendale I find unexplained, because it's unexplainable. I think you have slipped. To add I have to add the feeling you're treating me as town, while you say you don't consider me town.

Ok. I'm talking to you like you are town, because that is the protown thing to do when trying to figure out someone's alignment.

I explained my Pasch read perfectly and I can't help you if you don't/refuse to see it.

[AngryPidgeon]

To that end, why is Cat town to you?

There are overlaps in our opinions, without either of us sheeping one another. Sometimes they say something I agree with, something we say something we agree with. I think these overlaps show that we have a similar mindset: the one of a scumhunter.

GG

Eh, I'll say this. Be careful about townreading someone for having similar opinions. Its not too difficult for a reasonably skilled scum player to still express how they would see the game if they were town or even outright buddy players.

In case anybody's not super clear on this, I want pasch dead. I'm not flooding the thread with cases because Grim's doing a pretty good job, but if he gets tired and I have time I might.

Things that are interesting to someone will be independent of alignment. I have definitely used this as a reason to townread someone before in the past and have been both right and wrong in the past.

Let me compile some discussion points on them and run them by you later. I'm not comfortable with anybody having Cat as obvious town in this game because really they aren't.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'll admit that I felt Cat was the most universally townread slot going into the night and them still being around is adding to my suspicion of the slot.

[AngryPidgeon]

because for some batshit reason both pasch and varsoon can't be town

I never said that. And I would describe my attitude to you as "polite" today because I'm learning that rage walls are anti-town recently.

You trying to paint that as me knowing you to be town is pretty bizarre.

[AngryPidgeon]

@AP Lol no

F&L, FB and LC were part of a town block so one had to go

. I imagine F&L went as they were the most likely of the 3 to have a PR or something. Also if LC is the towniest of the 3 they're prob most likely to be protected if there is a doc
~G

Re underlined: That is incredibly faulty logic, Guyett. What if one of those 3 is scum? There are plenty of reasons to kill someone. Assuming that scum was desperately trying to get rid off a self-proclaimed townblock is extremely shortsighted. Why was F&L likely to be a PR? I never got any impression from them that they were more likely to be any role than another. And the Doc comment is some pretty big reaching to justify LC being around.

I'm not saying that LC is obv scum for being alive. Its just a point I wanted to bring up because it is on my mind. Why are you trying to defend them so hard from what was admitted to be a weak reason for reading them as scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

YEY NACHO.

Also angelmollie: reason?

The worry in EtL's quivering voice is clear, yet she makes a point of making this worry only a secondary element, after the welcoming of a player who replaces in (or didn't).

This reaction has led me to now investigate EtL's ISO.

BRB

GG

894 is not very alignment telling or interesting at all. Both town and scum cheer when friends enter a game.

[AngryPidgeon]

This boils down to you townreading Paschendale because you don't see him as a possible scumbuddy of Varsoon

I've said as much directly in the thread. I confess that this is my belief. I also said I want a chance to reread Pasch.

[AngryPidgeon]

About you treating us as town: this is more than you just being polite (though that is also much appreciated, manners are underrated these days ). You treat us as town through the way you want "to run things by us". The way you want to explain to us why you considered Varsoon's reaction a scummy one. These are just a few examples, but the feeling I have is undeniable: you think we're town, yet for some reason you don't state it.

Trying to work with people is pro-town. Reads are easier to develop on people you are discussing with than the people being discussed.

P-edit: Hi Thor

[AngryPidgeon]

I hope you won't consider this a misrep!

Im not a scatman. >.>

Also I'm feeling strangely peaceful today.

I can see finding the reaction to Mollie scummy, but I still wouldn't read anything into it. Yet another thing that comes from town and scum indiscriminately most of the time. At least she isn't afraid to address it.

[AngryPidgeon]

EtL, no comment on me standing up for you aggressively?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ugh did it have to be Thor. Hes scum and I'm never gonna get him lynched because hes Thor >.>

@EtL: Your bad behavior? What are you talking about?

[AngryPidgeon]

Could you do me a solid and click any links in your role PM and tell us who is posting in them?

[AngryPidgeon]

Half the reason I hate this ^ is because I know you do it as town. But I suspect that you could also easily do it as scum to invalidate my read on you or otherwise discourage me from changing my read on you.

But I feel a need to respond positively to your feedback on my playstyle, so maybe I'm just unfairly thinking you are trying to exploit that as well : S

Opinion on Grim or Lying Cat? I don't really have a recommendation for your vote (shocker), but I'm looking at those 2 atm.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ninja'd. Meant to say you commenting on my changing reads a lot. I'll get over it, I'll admit your entry post was amusing.

[AngryPidgeon]

Grim/Pasch/Cat would make a lot of sense as a scumteam.

Thor do something to convince me you aren't scum aligned. Thor will always be scum to me since 1347

[AngryPidgeon]

I thought splintered was scummy, but I don't recall anyone else sharing that opinion with me.

GG, if you are scum then good job. If you are town, then you haven't figured out how I operate. I'm curious - do you think my play is comparable to Hidden Temple at all?

[AngryPidgeon]

I really need to limit myself to one game at a time.

AP I have a slight scum vibe off of since he actually didn't preach about his reads, which on Day 2 feels rather off from him.

Well my only good scumread was on your slot and Im certainly not going to waste your time preaching to you about you being scum.

Verily doth yon saucy maiden protest too much. Forsooth, i shalt quaff mine mead and ravish thee anon!

Annnd, this is still probably scum. This is just like Thor from mini 1393.

Don't make me lynch your sorry ass due to bullshit reasoning like this as I will get even more disappointed with the so called elite members on this site :/

Lol. This is so scummy. Why are you apologizing to Thor about having to lynch him? This is the slot you guys have been siding with (and are still) siding with. Inb4 hydra dissonance.

Look Thor I want you to ISO Pasch and give me and Grim a good reason based on his play as to why he is scum. It shouldn't be too difficult.

Thor hasn't read anything yet. Why should Thor necessarily find Pasch scummy after reading his slot? Like the fact that you guys are OBSESSED with this Pasch read feels a lot like bussing.

Thor v Grim is terrible in general actually, both propagating shitty arguments over Pasch that don't actually go anywhere. I thought that Grim was very sure Varsoon was town and they certainly didn't antagonize him this way. Suddenly Thor replace in and we get all this crap and "omg Thor needs to pass burden of proficiency or hes scum".

Mollie, what is your read on Thor v Grim?

Go home Guyett, you're drunk. (though you make a good point about this overlap-thing)

Implying hydra dissonance on the Thor matter right when the interaction of these slots is looking terrible.

I will go to church with you, print out fliers about how bad and anti-town this is, and distribute them around town.
That said...have you ever played with AP before?

Grim did in a scumgame of mine recently. I'd link it but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess you dont care.

[AngryPidgeon]

Right and suddenly in 992 Thor is ok with just putting Pasch at L - 1 after this scummy herpaderp with Grim.

994 is distinctly lacking a claim which Im not sure how I feel about. Town are more likely to freak out and drop a claim if they are getting turbo wagoned.

Making her, as usual, a good policy death.

Lets not start this, thanks.

If you are town you know this sort of crap is going to result in a repeat of mykonian's game.

I never said it was a conclusion, did I?

Then what were you saying? This post is so useless, but I know I was scumreading Thor for propagating crap with Mollie in Patator and that was a crap read as it turned out. sadlkfjaskfj

If pasch flips scum who is your next favourite for a lynch Thor?

You. I'm not letting you buy any townpoints whatsoever from a Pasch flip.

EBWOP: Oh, and Brothers Grim: What the fuck happened to your scumread on me?

This is still probably town for involving himself in the discussion when he could be coasting.

Thor, am I correct in my understanding that you have no intention of actually reading the thread, ISOing anyone, or making any cases? I'm not convinced by your cocky attitude and my suspicion has not changed just because you make a lot of (empty) posts.

This is a good post and while not reading the thread is null for Thor, nothing he has done is towny, least of all putting Pasch At L - 1 which is certainly not what I'd expect from town Thor.

VOTE: Thor

Thor and Darthe and definitely scum. Lying Cat might be. Grim has been so full of confirmation bias the whole game and just has it out for me. Majiffy is ???.

Why Darthe? Why not Grim exactly?

P-edit holy crap

[AngryPidgeon]

Took me a minute to understand what the fuck Thor was saying here. What don't understand is how this makes pasch (a good town read of mine) scum. (To be honest, I do not recall any convincing cases from either AP or Grim on pasch, or perhaps I might feel differently).

I have weird feels that Grim is trying to milk towncred from this. I could easily see Thor/Grim/Pasch bussing here out of desperation.

I really don't see why they are so sure about this Pasch read and Grim is making no effort to explain it today. TO the contrary their arguments with Thor feel forced and anti-town.

[AngryPidgeon]

So you think a lynch should happen before I catch up?

If you really feel this way, why are you placing an L - 1 vote on Pasch you scummy butt???

Guys, we need to lynch Thor today. Varsoon was scum. Thor is still scum. This doesn't get more obvious.

[AngryPidgeon]

So two scum reads, a possible scum read, a...confirmation bias read, and a 'I dunno' read.
I'm guessing this means you think Majiffy and Grim are town - or are you expecting more than 3 scum on your wagon right now?

What is the point of posting this? What is wrong with Pasch finding yo and Darthe scummy on his wagon? He explicitly said he thinks Grim is just conf-biasing here. He never proposed more than 3 scum being on his wagon and hes not OMGUSing, but it feels like you are trying to imply he is w/o saying it.

--

Nobody should have a scumread on EtL after 1032. That sort of indignance is way more often from town.

Grim is

townscum

. My read on him has changed about 100 times while reading this game.

Although what is the underlined supposed to be?

Well my only good scumread was on your slot and Im certainly not going to waste your time preaching to you about you being scum.

that's a fair point, but it still seems drastically underperforming from you.
Am I wrong?

Annnd, this is still probably scum. This is just like Thor from mini 1393.

You should be specific about how it is the same.

Thor v Grim is terrible in general actually, both propagating shitty arguments over Pasch that don't actually go anywhere. I thought that Grim was very sure Varsoon was town and they certainly didn't antagonize him this way. Suddenly Thor replace in and we get all this crap and "omg Thor needs to pass burden of proficiency or hes scum".

That would tend to indicate they see me as a threat and are scum - but only if I am town...which you are saying I am not.
Clarify?

Grim did in a scumgame of mine recently. I'd link it but Im gonna go out on a limb and guess you dont care.

Not really, it was a question for him.
Let's be serious, you know my attitude towards anyone pointing out your fluctuating reads and calling it a scumtell.

What is the point in asking me this? Oh right there is none. Just smoke.

I'll explain when Im not in a time crunch.

I think its scummy on rim to be sure. A slot they've been cozy with replaces out and all of a sudden we get spam wars with you and them and forced dissonance? So ok, mostly a point against them. You are scummy on your own accord anyhow.

A scumtell for me specifically? I mean obviously its wrong. I couldnt even tell you if my reads 'fluctuated' similarly to my town meta in that game. But why beat around the bush if you don't care - tell them that there read is crap and move on.

Right and suddenly in 992 Thor is ok with just putting Pasch at L - 1 after this scummy herpaderp with Grim.

Because up till then I'd been opposed to it...?

Lets not start this, thanks.

If you are town you know this sort of crap is going to result in a repeat of mykonian's game.

Since she makes up meta on me and tries to lynch me as town - I don't really care.

Then what were you saying? This post is so useless, but I know I was scumreading Thor for propagating crap with Mollie in Patator and that was a crap read as it turned out. sadlkfjaskfj

What?
Go read what she actually asked me that I was answering - and then tell me why this even remotely matters to you.

least of all putting Pasch At L - 1 which is certainly not what I'd expect from town Thor.

Oh my gawd, you till have no concept of my meta and still choose to talk like you do.
I am an open and strong advocate of early L-1 and even preach it in Newbies as the IC.
Derpa-derp AP, this is fething terrible. Why do you do this gak?

What changed your mind? And I don't like that you are trying to play a "Oh don't you want me to read before the hammer?" card and also putting Pasch in hammer range. That is not town motivated thinking.

Ok. Stop doing blatantly anti-town things ans just ignore her then.

You are being obtuse instead of saying what you meant. Stop.

Why is Pasch scum then or are you just trolling Grim?

[AngryPidgeon]

Quickhammer Pasch, it'll be worth it.

Such a RUSH.

Was mollie right about you all along?

[AngryPidgeon]

Can you defend the Buck and Grim town positions?

Buck is town because he is largely apathetic about how his posts come across. Also he expressed a lot of pride in his play which is more often from town by a longshot.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also, as far as Grim goes, I think AP has a point about the odd dissonance, as I picked up on that too, albeit I sort of thought it was due to the

'lulz, drunk' thing

. But is that a first, or have they done that in the past, and if so why do you still like their pushes?

How is that even remotely a valid excuse?

[AngryPidgeon]

Lol. This is so scummy. Why are you apologizing to Thor about having to lynch him? This is the slot you guys have been siding with (and are still) siding with. Inb4 hydra dissonance.

What's your problem with hydra dissonance?

Nothing. Guyett ruffling his feathers at a slot you both have been townreading is mindboggling. Care to tell me why hes doing it?

[AngryPidgeon]

Really want to delve into Angry Pidgeon right now, in the most non-sexual way imaginable

Cat, I'm super excited about this totally awesome revelation you've had about me. Get off the fence and spill it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh and hi mastin. I'm glad you replaced into probtown.

[AngryPidgeon]

1. I've been having a hard time selling my townread on Varsoon to Guyett. He never was fully convinced of it, but did agree on us having other priorities right now (you and Paschendale).

Ok, I need to reread you guys then.

It felt scummy to me that Guyett was having pointless (my perspective) wars with Thor and more sitrring the pot instead of trying to actually accomplish anything (once again, my perspective).

All I know is that I remember your slot being uninterested in Varsoon and I apparently forgot that Guyett was interested in him at all. I certainly never got the feeling that anyone other than me was interested in Varsoon (other than Mollie and she was taking his side anyways)

--

Varsoon was scummy on his own accord and Thor has not changed that so logic demands that I vote Thor. You and Pasch are less certain and Thor has actual support to go through right now.

And I was never voting Pasch at all this game iirc.

Thor and Darthe and definitely scum. Lying Cat might be. Grim has been so full of confirmation bias the whole game and just has it out for me. Majiffy is ???.

Mmm, could see this as either alignment. I want to know why his read on you is what it is since Darthe and Thor got sent indiscriminately to the scumheap. I like that he is willing to look at LC when there has been no support there at all (why do it as scum then?).

Please, players who are not scum or retarded, speak out against this godawful wagon.

Try to figure out why anything I've done actually looks like it's scum-motivated

. Notice how the people on it besides Grim have not even bothered to delve into why they are voting for me.

AtE is not a scumtell. I make appeals like this all the time when I'm frustrated town.

This wagon is obviously helped by scum and obviously a mislynch. I would happily be refuting whatever reasons the players besides Grim have given for targeting me... except there are none. The closest anyone came is Thor listening to Grim bitch about me and then nodding his head as he looks at his scum role PM and hops on Grim's idiot wagon.

Still the main thing bothering me here is why you are assuredly town and just biased.

Don't be stupid. Kill obvscum Thor right now.

He is refusing to catch up on the thread, so missing out on a lot of information.

This way he can not have to own up for Varsoon's scummy acts, and distance himself from our reads on Varsoon, which were becoming unilaterally scumleans. Varsoon was caught scum and fled. That slot is still caught, even though it's Thor now and not Varsoon. Don't let Thor make you forget.

Underlined is a valid point if not really applicable to Thor (but I wouldnt expect Pasch to know that). Varsoon's replace out was scummy as shit and Pasch bringing that up protown if he is town.

[AngryPidgeon]

2. Voting someone for being on a wagon that AP was on himself before moving vote to Thor (hypocrite).

I was never voting Paschendale???? I don;'t think Ive voted him the entire game.

lmao, you are just blatantly assigning scum motivation to everything I say.

And yes Im allowed to be upset at Thor for "OMG don't you want me to finish reading before we lynch him??" When he is on the wagon. I dont give two shits about Pasch's alignment in this scenario, its an inconsistency of Thor's.

[AngryPidgeon]

And also re 2: I'm not voting Thor for voting Pasch. You are blatantly misrepping everything I've done and assigning scum motive to it.

P-edit: My read on Pasch? Let me shake my magic 8 ball for a sec and get back to you.

[AngryPidgeon]

And also re 2: I'm not voting Thor for voting Pasch. You are blatantly misrepping everything I've done and assigning scum motive to it.

Before your vote on Thor you said this:

This is a good post and while not reading the thread is null for Thor, nothing he has done is towny,

least of all putting Pasch At L - 1

which is certainly not what I'd expect from town Thor.

Please explain my blatant misrep.

GG

You said I voted Pasch? Or am I misunderstanding you.

[AngryPidgeon]

1. Sheeping someone else before voting.
2. Voting someone for being on a wagon that AP was on himself before moving vote to Thor (hypocrite).
3. MAking a fuss about an L-1 wagon on a player who did not get further than an AtE in his ultimate defense.

1) Don't care. EtL is town and I have posted resaons in the thread for Varsoon being scum. Why are you pretending that never happened?
2) I was never on the Pasch wagon
3) Context is everything; Thor has barely read and he also offhandedly mentioned that it would be good for him to have more time before a hammer. Yet he is putting Pasch in hammer range. Pasch defending himself with AtE is a boring point to bring up.

[AngryPidgeon]

You made really good points in Legends but you feel desperate here - like you are walling for the sake of walling.

[AngryPidgeon]

Yes, buddy up to the unwtting inactive-fest tha tis Belisarius, that should get you a far way.

There is nothing I can say to this. But Im glad you think my scumplay is subpar.

[AngryPidgeon]

Grim, ignoring the fact that Thor is voting your fav scumpick - what is your impression of him so far? Give me some points that you feel about him.

[AngryPidgeon]

If I had to sum up your push on me in a word it would be : convenient. You are tying me to Paschendale and very vocally encouraging us to be lynched back 2 back.

Would Pasch flipping town change your opinion on me or have you even considered that possibility?

[AngryPidgeon]

Oh this is a secret bastard setup. Im a Jester. Im hoping my stance on Pasch will get me turbolynched after he flips mafia.