Mini 1522: AA - MFA (Game Over!)

[geists]

hi guys

[geists]

vote Mac

You haven't jumped on anything yet. :/

[geists]

Or nati hasn't posted yet.

p sure you know how much I interfere with my hydra partners' rvs play.

[geists]

Lack of self vote says geists is scum; or ffery threatened nati.

I'm just a poor innocent ghost director and she's a big meanie

VOTE: geists

[geists]

oh no I've been caught

my only hope is to OMGUS

but then I can't keep RVS bussing my scumbuddy

what do @_@

You could claim scum and save us all a lot of trouble.

[geists]

Did he scumslip or are people just being dumb?

[geists]

Probably because post 23 disagrees completely with his vote he has down.

I'm not really seeing it. He defends his Mac vote as well.

[geists]

Why sheep Marquis and not glorious ffery/Nat hydra?

[geists]

Also before everyone Mac thinks he can ignore it, I would like to mention that even though my vote was obv-RVS, the accusation is still some level of serious. RVS is hard enough since people do the exact same thing every time so people physically can't look at their play and say that it is independent of their alignment. All copying other's mannerisms does is drags the process on.

i don't know what you are accusing me of.

trolling ffery is bad? copying ffery is bad?

that i'm delibrately trying to draw out rvs in post 7?

if you can tell me what you're getting at, i can answer.

It's terrible. It's the worst thing ever. And it's an international sport. :/

pieguy's posts so far seem very forced and awkward.

indeed.

was a bit baffled by cabd's #16, but i think i can move past it.

It was a nod to Nati's habitual opening post.

[geists]

Oh also

Unvote
Vote: KA

Hey Sakura.

The fact Cabd and us aren't on this wagon should be a sign.

PEDIT: Oh hey ffery, I'll be home in a little bit.

[geists]

@Cabd, TNE: what are your thoughts on Sakura so far?

She's rather pink, feeling like it's a festive christmas season, and obviously things at work are going better given the tone of her posting. Oh, you meant in relation to the game?

Why ask me and TNE as opposed to somebody on your scumteam like ffery?

Probably because I'm bussing him.

[geists]

Guize fferynati and Cabd aren't on the wagon so we're obviously badposting mmk?

Well stop being bad.

[geists]

Well stop being opaque.

It's obvious, though.

[geists]

Guize fferynati and Cabd aren't on the wagon so we're obviously badposting mmk?

How about either of you pony up a reason why this wagon is bad? I'm not a big fan of the whole "look at the children play, aren't they cute?" vibe I'm getting from the two(three) of you.

I don't recall opining about the wagon one way or another.

KA is my first tentative townread, though, so there's that!

[geists]

So I just got done with a series of fun skypegames and pegged the fuck out of fferyscum (and called her partner day one wheee) so I feel like if she's scum I can peg her again. We'll see what time holds for us.

Well, the good news is you get a week to figure her out before I come back and make a smokescreen again.

[geists]

And Kaze is my second.

[geists]

The question is, if you are going to post, why do the single most useless thing you can possibly do? Yes it's RVS and there hasn't been anything that you can react to so far, why not try to start something instead of continue the trend of uselessness?

My post wasn't useless, btw.

[geists]

@Cabd, TNE: what are your thoughts on Sakura so far?

This lacks the verve you usually bring to the game.

[geists]

indeed.

I blame this new RVS strategy. I'm not too sure on how to do it right so that probably explains why some things seem forced @_@

What is this new strategy and why did you change?

[geists]

What about that vote is defensive?

the fact that it was a RV. it's natural people are going to RV with weird reasons, so IMO it's defensive because you seem to be really taking it seriously. 0.0

not sure what you mean by reasoning, if that doesn't explain it can you elaborate plz?

what's your opinion on Kaze?

What strategy, and what was it's objective exactly?

wagon hopping. note how I hopped on Mac's wagon and then sheeped Marquis on his KA vote. it's objective is just like any other RVS strategy, to make shit happen to advance the game and make information pop up. I chose this strategy cause I wanna try out smth new for once

the fact that you're interested in this means you agree my posts seem forced, right?

what's your thoughts on TNE so far?

nm found it.

What is YOUR opinion on Kaze?

[geists]

You're not the type to spam the thread just to make it look like you're really active, are you?

Four pages of data and this is the most cogent question you can come up with?

[geists]

You're not the type to spam the thread just to make it look like you're really active, are you?

Four pages of data and this is the most cogent question you can come up with?

Just one simple question, and this is the answer you come up with?

Indeed. Your question has highlighted the on-the-sidelines nature of your participation in the game so far. So has your follow-up.

[geists]

That was pretty unlucky, I was responding like 3 pages ago and site went down and stayed down until I went to sleep, then when I woke up it was still down, but apparently it was up sometime while I was sleeping. Anyway

ffery: Nat said that he and Cabd not voting KA should've been a sign, but i'm not seeing it yet, could you explain that to me?

There was a perceived(?) contradiction in post 24, I think. I didn't see it the way it was apparently read. OTOH part of the wagon may have been spontaneous and not primarily driven by that post.

Also so far all I see from pieguy is pieguy being pieguy nothing alignment indicative, on the other hand i got a slight town lean on ffery/Nat, Cabd will prob take 3-5 more pages to figure out. Also got a slight scum lean on KA and Kaze.

He seems a little less driven and focused to me. Could be that I just don't have a handle on the variations in his day-start approaches yet.

Though your reaction to it was very real! You seem a bit bothered, eh? :3

This felt fake for example.[/quote]

I have two completed games with him - one town and one scum - and I've meta'd all his games that were completed at the time of those two games (which were ongoing at the same time). He's a lot more assertive as town IME. There are other behaviors I associate with town, but it's a little early to be seeing them, and I'm about to head out the door for the next several hours, so I'm not going into detail just yet.

Right now, I have him as town.

[geists]

Hi guys

Interesting

I'm eating food, a Caesar salad

I look forward to finding the right mafia cravat (sp?) today

Hi guys

Gravitas

Hi guys

I food tell a lot - hummus wrap anyone?

/end first impression

I had lunch at an awesome greek restaurant on the beach today!

My post wasn't useless, btw.

What was its use, then?

Random votes are not the only way to jumpstart content at the start of a game.

In a player list where not everyone knows me and my quirks, it usually generates reactions, some of which help me and others develop reads. Even when my quirks are known it usually generates reactions. It used to be that I'd often draw votes during RVS due to not voting in my first post. That was sometimes quite useful. The novelty has worn off, and the sorts of reactions have evolved, but they are still useful.

You're not the type to spam the thread just to make it look like you're really active, are you?

Four pages of data and this is the most cogent question you can come up with?

why haven't you answered the question, instead of deflecting away from it?

Your question is almost as bad as his is. In fact maybe it's worse. Would you trust a yes/no answer to this, or would you want independent verification? Would you ask a question like this in the first place?

[geists]

also, why do you think Brian's play here is similar to Stack the Deck?

I don't have an opinion about his play in Stack the Deck. I didn't play the game and haven't meta'd it.

[geists]

Ah. It was under a quote of my post, so I thought it was for me.

[geists]

Probably, anyway i went through KA's ISO again and I think I may be making a mistake here due to his interactions with Mac, so im gonna follow the Nacho method for the time being and move my vote here instead.

Unvote
Vote: Kalimar

I should make nacho join my slot this game just so you have to unvote and sheep him onto not voting wagon.

This not voting thing is kinda recent, I think. What's the impetus for it?

[geists]

Did you miss my question?

[geists]

Your question is almost as bad as his is. In fact maybe it's worse. Would you trust a yes/no answer to this, or would you want independent verification? Would you ask a question like this in the first place?

well yeah. i'd expect you to say "check for yourself and come back to me" not snarking straight from the off at slimer for asking a simple question. it's funny how he brought it up and the way you replied as such, reminds me of xenoblade.

It wasn't a simple question. It read as something close to the "have you stopped beating your wife" fallacy, which is why I took exception to it.

[geists]

Prod dodge ~ content in a few hours.

And?

[geists]

was that ffery or Nati

ffery.

Does it matter?

[geists]

ohi
answer this plz

@ffery:

you haven't been as much of a presence in this game as I'm used to. what's going on? 0.0

Missed that. Vacation/Holiday. My activity has been lower than usual across the board since Tuesday. Nati's on vacation as well.

I evidently didn't add drunkposting to my online trail of terror last night. Pity, really.

[geists]

what do you think about TNE?

how do you like the chance of Sakura + TNE team?

I don't care? TNE is gone. The slot is freshly null again until its predecessor starts posting. At least, that's how I go about things.

lol

[geists]

Sorry, the portion where I back-and-forth with scum is over. The lynching portion is now in effect. You may take your pitiful attempts at defense and straw man fallacies and shove them in the orifice of your choosing. Thanks. <3

Everyone not named pieguyn, please weigh in the last few posts.

I think it looks like town v town white noise.

[geists]

Oh, and there's something odd about the fferyllt head of geists and Cabd not interacting much so far. As I've played with their morph the cat hydra before, I would have thought they would want to sort each other out fairly early on.

I'm quite curious to see how Cabd answers this.

[geists]

I think it looks like town v town white noise.

so you don't think it's alignment indicative how he said lurker votes are bad, but apparently had nothing to say about Sakura's vote on Kalimar?

also I'm gonna try to use this term plz forgive me if I fk it up. IMO his trajectory seemed fake as fuck. I don't see how the hell he went to the point where he would do a fake vote reaction test thing via my post 273. I'm trying to figure out what he could see in there, since he sure as hell didn't point out anything. and I don't buy how my 276 solidified my read on him. the only thing he pointed out was OMGUS and it seems fake. 0.0 notice how when I tried to find out his reasons behind all this he wouldn't even answer me.

@Kalimar:

above question is open for you too ~

reaction test votes usually are kinda sketchy in terms of trajectory and reasoning. That's sort of the point, usually.

Kaze will probably be insulted (again) but his town play tends to look more chaotic than his scum play from what I've seen.

You are a very logic-driven player. Not everybody approaches the game that way. And even players that depend on logic sometimes make intuitive leaps (with varying degrees of grace and accuracy).

[geists]

@ffery: Why do i have a feeling that you're hardly involved in this game and all the time you keep mentioning theory or what certain people do as scum and town, or defending your townreads, do you have any scumreads so far? you haven't voted anyone since the start of the game and that's depriving town of needed info.

I was thinking about my lack of scumreads earlier, and I'm wondering if most or all scum aren't very active atm. Nati is supposed to be online tonight. I figured I'll talk through my thoughts with him and then dump them in the game thread.

As usual, I'll vote when I'm ready to vote.

[geists]

Oh, and there's something odd about the fferyllt head of geists and Cabd not interacting much so far. As I've played with their morph the cat hydra before, I would have thought they would want to sort each other out fairly early on.

I'm quite curious to see how Cabd answers this.

I'm too lazy to sort you right now. Please insert another quarter for more.

I'm quite curious this got ignored!

By me?

I may try out-apathy-ing you this game just to see if I can.

[geists]

I at least have the reason of being pretty much assuredly dead fucking AGAIN at random.

It's probably just me, but I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

[geists]

Borkgame. Morph. Fucking again.

Really? Ugh.

[geists]

You want to talk about this?

[geists]

Borkgame. Morph. Fucking again.

Really? Ugh.

I don't understand.

We were a unidirectional unrequited lover in Bork's touhou game. If our scum lover died, we died with him. If we died, the scum player continued to be alive and kicking.

[geists]

Cabd, Nati is asking for a case #.

[geists]

Borkgame. Morph. Fucking again.

Really? Ugh.

I don't understand.

We were a unidirectional unrequited lover in Bork's touhou game. If our scum lover died, we died with him. If we died, the scum player continued to be alive and kicking.

And Cabd is insinuating this is the case again...?

Not precisely the same, but something similar.

[geists]

Something similar to that. I'm not gonna go into details. Just assume i'll be dead before lylo and go from there.

Willing to cough up enough flavor for Nati to make something of it? he's phone posting in gtalk, but can't be assed to actually log in and post here.

[geists]

@ffery:

can you answer my question plz. I am confused as hell right now as to whether I'm terribly wrong or if my points are valid. especially when he won't provide any argument against my points and instead handwaves all of them away, which incidentally is the same shit he accused Sakura of doing.

I'll come back to this when I'm not channeling Nati.

[geists]

Something similar to that. I'm not gonna go into details. Just assume i'll be dead before lylo and go from there.

Willing to cough up enough flavor for Nati to make something of it? he's phone posting in gtalk, but can't be assed to actually log in and post here.

I think that would actually give out info that right now scum does not have. I'll probably explain more come day 2 twilight.

Maybe you and Nati can talk above everyone else's heads about the most esoteric of minor details when he's at a keyboard.

[geists]

like holy shit there's a shitton of angles you could have pushed to try to refute that case, but that's not one of them

Come on, now. Get off the conf bias train and think.

Did you unvote?

[geists]

like holy shit there's a shitton of angles you could have pushed to try to refute that case, but that's not one of them

Come on, now. Get off the conf bias train and think.

Did you unvote?

Why would I? I'm still trying to meta pie.

because "Get off the conf bias train and think" isn't usually something people tell their scum reads.

[geists]

Kaze is town.

Can we move on?

We are entertaining the possibility that Brian Skies is scum. One of us will post some reasons why in a bit.

[geists]

Brian Skies

Spoiler: QuoteWall ahead

I have a fair amount of experiential meta with Brian, and Nati was on Brian's scum team in the Cash Cabd mini normal game. My impression from that game (and from his two town games that we played) is that Brian tends to start games a little weakly no matter what his alignment. He seemed to try hard to get along as scum, and I didn't see that in his town games.

VOTE: Cabd

Before he nightkills me.

^^ I liked this post at the time it hit the thread, though I did get a slight sense of buddying from it. But, Cabd seems like an odd choice of player for newish scum to buddy.

Ohai.

VOTE: Brian Skies

There was a clear RVS wagon forming and you avoided it masterfully.

Was continuing a discussion from the sign-up thread.

This vote be srs bsnz, brah.

That's cool.

What have you learned?

Note my lack of vote on the KA wagon.

Hai. Why does this post contradict what you just said previously?

^^ Stuff I didn't like.

1. Seriously defending his rvs vote.

2. Taking the vote on himself seriously "What have you learned?"

I did like that he questioned Cabd, but the contradiction was nonexistant.

this seems really weird. why are you being so defensive about an RVS vote? mb as a not-so-serious post in RVS itself it'd be fine, but you seem to be seriously defending it. scared much?

What about that vote is defensive?

It wasn't really serious. I thought the wording was indicative of that.

Though your reaction to it was very real! You seem a bit bothered, eh? :3

My initial reaction was your vote giving me the warm fuzzies.

Now that I have learned the truth, not so much.

^^ The "What about that vote is defensive?" question feels pretty perfunctory and sort of continues the wrong-feelingness of his reaction to Kaze's vote. Same with his response to Kaze. It just doesn't feel like a town reaction to a vote, and it's a very noncommital reaction to people reacting to his reaction.

the fact that it was a RV. it's natural people are going to RV with weird reasons, so IMO it's defensive because you seem to be really taking it seriously. 0.0

not sure what you mean by reasoning, if that doesn't explain it can you elaborate plz?

I didn't really care that he voted me. I was just giving him my reasoning for my RVS because what he said wasn't true.

what's your opinion on Kaze?

He likes wagons. He's pretty much doing what I'd expect from him.

More low-key "nothing to see here" feeling reaction.

So, you scum?

I'm town. You?

Such a lack of engagement.

exactly why I think you're being defensive. his vote was a RV just like any other, so why do you feel the need to say it's not true? it's not a serious accusation. 0.0

So you're saying I can't respond to it?

are you initially leaning town or scum on Kaze?

Right now, probably town.

Look at all the questions so far in this quote wall. They are not scumhunting questions. They are attention deflecting questions.

Start off by telling me who you're looking at for scum thus far.

Nothing jumps out at me. Maybe Cabd.

Try again later.

Finally! Scumhunting! Oh wait. "Try again later".

also, what's your opinion on KA?

Okay, so I misread this the first time around and thought you were referring to Kaze. KA's early push against Mac makes me laugh and I think that a push against either you or Marquis would have been more interesting. He already explained his reasoning for not pushing Marquis though.

What about his reply here didn't give you the 'warm fuzzies'?

Was hoping it was a serious vote that had the intention of moving the game forward and be something I could use to sort people.

Alas, the RVS stage continues to disappoint me.

What do you think of the KA wagon?

Useless. The lack of counterwagon bothers me.

nothing's really fkin happened yet. wait till something big happens and then I'll show up :>

This sounds like something I would say.

what's your opinion on Sakura?

:shrugs: Sakura's in this little pocket of people that I don't like to read.

atm he's leaning scum for the reason I pointed out previously.

I don't have an opinion about his play in Stack the Deck. I didn't play the game and haven't meta'd it.

If you want to see strong townreads get mislynched for stupid reasons, it's an interesting read.

in mismatched and stacking the deck he played differently but the vibes i get this game is more of stacking the deck.

Those games are like polar opposites in terms of my seriousness level.

also, Nacho isn't even in this game and there's no votes on Kalimar. can you elaborate plz

Probably something to do with lurker prejudice and attacking anything not moving enough.

why didn't you call me out for keeping my vote on KA while scumreading you?

Wondering if this is also related to me somehow.

I was scumreading her all the way till endgame and that was one of my reasons, so I dunno if this is alignment indicative for her

Was I not fighting the wagon hard enough that game?

Meta just gets in the way of accurate reads

I agree.

Ok, so this quote wall. I thought there would probably be something in here that would give a sense of what he's thinking about other players. The highlights are that RVS continues to disappoint him because it's not giving him anything to build reads from. And I have to ask...well, why not do something more? Interactions? Questions? Observations? No. It's all been reactions to stuff posted by others.

KA wagon is useless because no counterwagon. Aaand...where's his vote? Be the counterwagon you wish to see.

He passes on the opportunity to post something about Sakura.

Some comments about his play in other games, and I get no sense how they are supposed to illuminate his play in this game.

And something sort of dismissive of pressure on lurkers? I wonder why?

And a dismissal of meta.

Here's an ISO from the mismatching flavors micro game, to give you reasons why Brian's play so far feels incredibly bland, unemotional, disengaged and above all, scummy.

VOTE: Brian Skies

[geists]

So much for out-apathy-ing me.

I'll try for a relapse.

[geists]

Brian Skies

Spoiler: QuoteWall ahead

I have a fair amount of experiential meta with Brian, and Nati was on Brian's scum team in the Cash Cabd mini normal game. My impression from that game (and from his two town games that we played) is that Brian tends to start games a little weakly no matter what his alignment. He seemed to try hard to get along as scum, and I didn't see that in his town games.

VOTE: Cabd

Before he nightkills me.

^^ I liked this post at the time it hit the thread, though I did get a slight sense of buddying from it. But, Cabd seems like an odd choice of player for newish scum to buddy.

Ohai.

VOTE: Brian Skies

There was a clear RVS wagon forming and you avoided it masterfully.

Was continuing a discussion from the sign-up thread.

This vote be srs bsnz, brah.

That's cool.

What have you learned?

Note my lack of vote on the KA wagon.

Hai. Why does this post contradict what you just said previously?

^^ Stuff I didn't like.

1. Seriously defending his rvs vote.

2. Taking the vote on himself seriously "What have you learned?"

I did like that he questioned Cabd, but the contradiction was nonexistant.

this seems really weird. why are you being so defensive about an RVS vote? mb as a not-so-serious post in RVS itself it'd be fine, but you seem to be seriously defending it. scared much?

What about that vote is defensive?

It wasn't really serious. I thought the wording was indicative of that.

Though your reaction to it was very real! You seem a bit bothered, eh? :3

My initial reaction was your vote giving me the warm fuzzies.

Now that I have learned the truth, not so much.

^^ The "What about that vote is defensive?" question feels pretty perfunctory and sort of continues the wrong-feelingness of his reaction to Kaze's vote. Same with his response to Kaze. It just doesn't feel like a town reaction to a vote, and it's a very noncommital reaction to people reacting to his reaction.

the fact that it was a RV. it's natural people are going to RV with weird reasons, so IMO it's defensive because you seem to be really taking it seriously. 0.0

not sure what you mean by reasoning, if that doesn't explain it can you elaborate plz?

I didn't really care that he voted me. I was just giving him my reasoning for my RVS because what he said wasn't true.

what's your opinion on Kaze?

He likes wagons. He's pretty much doing what I'd expect from him.

More low-key "nothing to see here" feeling reaction.

So, you scum?

I'm town. You?

Such a lack of engagement.

exactly why I think you're being defensive. his vote was a RV just like any other, so why do you feel the need to say it's not true? it's not a serious accusation. 0.0

So you're saying I can't respond to it?

are you initially leaning town or scum on Kaze?

Right now, probably town.

Look at all the questions so far in this quote wall. They are not scumhunting questions. They are attention deflecting questions.

Start off by telling me who you're looking at for scum thus far.

Nothing jumps out at me. Maybe Cabd.

Try again later.

Finally! Scumhunting! Oh wait. "Try again later".

also, what's your opinion on KA?

Okay, so I misread this the first time around and thought you were referring to Kaze. KA's early push against Mac makes me laugh and I think that a push against either you or Marquis would have been more interesting. He already explained his reasoning for not pushing Marquis though.

What about his reply here didn't give you the 'warm fuzzies'?

Was hoping it was a serious vote that had the intention of moving the game forward and be something I could use to sort people.

Alas, the RVS stage continues to disappoint me.

What do you think of the KA wagon?

Useless. The lack of counterwagon bothers me.

nothing's really fkin happened yet. wait till something big happens and then I'll show up :>

This sounds like something I would say.

what's your opinion on Sakura?

:shrugs: Sakura's in this little pocket of people that I don't like to read.

atm he's leaning scum for the reason I pointed out previously.

I don't have an opinion about his play in Stack the Deck. I didn't play the game and haven't meta'd it.

If you want to see strong townreads get mislynched for stupid reasons, it's an interesting read.

in mismatched and stacking the deck he played differently but the vibes i get this game is more of stacking the deck.

Those games are like polar opposites in terms of my seriousness level.

also, Nacho isn't even in this game and there's no votes on Kalimar. can you elaborate plz

Probably something to do with lurker prejudice and attacking anything not moving enough.

why didn't you call me out for keeping my vote on KA while scumreading you?

Wondering if this is also related to me somehow.

I was scumreading her all the way till endgame and that was one of my reasons, so I dunno if this is alignment indicative for her

Was I not fighting the wagon hard enough that game?

Meta just gets in the way of accurate reads

I agree.

Ok, so this quote wall. I thought there would probably be something in here that would give a sense of what he's thinking about other players. The highlights are that RVS continues to disappoint him because it's not giving him anything to build reads from. And I have to ask...well, why not do something more? Interactions? Questions? Observations? No. It's all been reactions to stuff posted by others.

KA wagon is useless because no counterwagon. Aaand...where's his vote? Be the counterwagon you wish to see.

He passes on the opportunity to post something about Sakura.

Some comments about his play in other games, and I get no sense how they are supposed to illuminate his play in this game.

And something sort of dismissive of pressure on lurkers? I wonder why?

And a dismissal of meta.

Here's an ISO from the mismatching flavors micro game, to give you reasons why Brian's play so far feels incredibly bland, unemotional, disengaged and above all, scummy.

VOTE: Brian Skies

Though his posts this game have been leaving much to be desired, they can easily be attributed to a lack of interest. I also don't quite see the strong parallels you apparently see between this game and the ISO you provided. In Mismatched, he's not only non-committal and lacking effort, but he was downright fluffy and almost whimsical.(e.g. opining about his hatred of dancing and blatantly buddying Bert for no apparent reason.)

Basically I'm saying his play here is indeed poor but it doesn't look identical to his provided scumplay examples to me.

No, you're entirely missing the point of his ISO in the mismatching game. In that game, even though he was picking up votes and FoSes and being challenged, he

cared

and he scumhunted, and he wound up a strong town read to most of the players as a result. His reactions to RVS shark-in-the-water activities in this game don't answer suspicions, they deflect them.

[geists]

No, I'm just here raising cain...

I mean...RAISING A CANE......*twirls cane*

If this is a legitimate softclaim I should lynch you right now.

oh wait I'm not in this game right nvm

You got some stiff competition in the form of the God-King of Lurking, MafiaSSK.

Now Cabd I'm kinda tired and delirious, but I think you're fakeclaiming and the reason you refuse to disclose flavor details is that you know I'll see through them. I find any sort of 1-sided deaths sketchy from GIF, especially in a theme so...vogue as Ace Attorney.

Sakura, why are you sheeping Pie? I find it suspicious.

SSK, I need you to be on-point this game and your first quest is to give me a reads list so I can see if you fell for the bait.

[geists]

Not fakeclaiming, sorry to disappoint you. I could soft my character name but aren't there others that would get it? And it would require me to be sure you were town. Oh, and also, it's not one sided. All I'm saying though.

Okay, this is my little diatribe, but why are people so afraid to flavorclaim? So few games actually care about flavor nowadays. I mean, I've softed my rolename thrice in my like five posts this game. Moreover, you specifically being resistant is curious especially since you know how I work.

[geists]

Because I find his case on Kaze quite convincing and you case on Brian unconvincing.

Speaking of flavor claims i've already softed a long time ago, but prob. only someone with good flavor knowledge like Nat will get it.

What is unconvincing about it? I'm still really confused to the kaze wagon, he's clearly just being obstinate.

Also your claim was p good and p believable.

[geists]

how could that even be a softclaim?

Quercus Alba.

And who has the English degree and who is the analyst in this hydra?

[geists]

I could direct you to gif's avatar being a hottie (bitches with green hair etc), but let's keep this game relevant, shall we?

I never understood GIF. Or Sakura. Purple's clearly the best hair color on your qt3.14.

[geists]

who in the world is that *goes to Google*

Um.... I wasn't referrign to either of you about the english major thing but

I'll go with you FFERY as your answer, mostly because you are done with school! <3

Tee hee hee.

[geists]

who in the world is that *goes to Google*

Um.... I wasn't referrign to either of you about the english major thing but

I'll go with you FFERY as your answer, mostly because you are done with school! <3

That was Nati.

[geists]

I'm extending you two a bit of a reach. Nati can translate. If you're scum, well, so be it.

We're town.

Nati's p much down for the count after the road trip. He'll have to translate tomorrow.

[geists]

Whew. That took way longer than I thought or needed it to take.

READS LIST:
Scum: Sakura, geists, one of (Kalimar, pieguy)
Null: Brian Skies, Bert
Town: Mac, KA, Kaze, slimer

And what was up with Kalimar's random vote on me?

I'm letting Nati sort you this time, because I default to scumreading you.

Why do you have slimer as town?

[geists]

You'd think me blatantly voting someone ffery had pegged as town and even asking me to sheep them on Brian would've done something, why did you ignore such a vote?

Nacho at least knows when to listen to me.

[geists]

Whew. That took way longer than I thought or needed it to take.

READS LIST:
Scum: Sakura, geists, one of (Kalimar, pieguy)
Null: Brian Skies, Bert
Town: Mac, KA, Kaze, slimer

And what was up with Kalimar's random vote on me?

<---am I chopped liver?

You surprise me.

[geists]

Cabd has asked you to sheep him?

[geists]

Cabd has asked you to sheep him?

I should make nacho join my slot this game just so you have to unvote and sheep him onto not voting wagon.

I'm pretty sure that was a joke.

I'll be happy for others to join me in voting Brian.

[geists]

I mean, seriously i find it awkward that you guys keep asking me to sheep you, so I'm doing exactly what you guys not want.

And this is kind of dumb. If you're town, you should do what you think is good town play regardless of who else is or isn't voting the same way, and regardless of whether you're asked or not.

[geists]

I'll be happy for others to join me in voting Brian.

Well dont expect me to follow you there until im more certain of your alignment.

I never ask anyone to follow me unless I feel I've made my alignment crystal clear and demonstrated good judgement/reads as well.

[geists]

Except i dont think Brian's scum?

In that case, don't vote him, and convince me I'm wrong.

[geists]

I suggest that you look back at that ISO and see what he posted that wasn't reactive. And look for questions that would help him discern someone's alignment.

And go back and look at some of his town games and see how he scumhunted in them.

[geists]

^^ Stuff I didn't like.

1. Seriously defending his rvs vote.

2. Taking the vote on himself seriously "What have you learned?"

I like the RVS stage.

So do I! I learn a lot from the transition from RVS to serious play.

KA wagon is useless because no counterwagon. Aaand...where's his vote? Be the counterwagon you wish to see.

Do you not know my voting tendencies?

What are your voting tendencies? I have 3 games with you - 2 town (one of which you were miller in, which made reactions to you and by you pretty non-predictive) and one scum. I haven't tried to compare this game to the miller game because I don't think it would be a fair comparison.

And something sort of dismissive of pressure on lurkers? I wonder why?

Where? And since when do I do this?

Here:

Probably something to do with lurker prejudice and attacking anything not moving enough.

If I'm misinterpreting that, then explain what it actually means.

And a dismissal of meta.

Since when do I like meta?

You commented pretty favorably on my meta analysis of Kaze in the On a Boat game. And also on Empire's meta reads. I almost linked to that, but I do realize that your opinion of meta isn't completely favorable. But, given the above, your rather strongly worded dismissal looks off kilter.

Here's an ISO from the mismatching flavors micro game, to give you reasons why Brian's play so far feels incredibly bland, unemotional, disengaged and above all, scummy.

I love how when people meta me, they always use my first completed game to do it (and you played in two other games with me, what's the deal?). And I've had to deal with this game for the past month. So much apathy.

All of our games together inform my impression of you. But, like I said, I didn't think the miller game was as predictive.

Also, holiday season.

True.

If I was scum, I'd be pushing a mislynch by now. You're not trying hard enough Ffery, and it's making me sad.

In the Cash Cabd game you went along with whatever town wanted to push during the first few days of that game. I commented on how agreeable you seemed. I didn't expect you to play this game exactly the same if you're scum. In some ways your play in this game is more generically scum looking and less like that one. This game you seem much more defensive, like you never got off the back foot.

His reactions to RVS shark-in-the-water activities in this game don't answer suspicions, they deflect them.

What do you want from me? You're calling me being defensive over that post, but no one is saying how I was supposed to respond.

No one wants to give you a road map to getting town-read if you're scum. But, there are plenty of hints about what's been missing in your play. it's impossible to post a case without describing what's missing.

Nacho at least knows when to listen to me.

Your vote sucks and I'm disappointed in you. Did you draw scum this game?

Read your own ISO and say that again with a straight face.

You had no trouble at all convincing me you were town in the On a Boat game.

[geists]

Neither. I'm saying note how she approaches making the meta case in that scenario vs here on you. It's not a golden bullet of townieness, but it makes me not scumread her.

I'm still surprised at your lack of reaction to something btw.

[geists]

That's not what surprises me.

[geists]

Oh, then i'm missing something so meh. If it's not something super sekrit feel free to point it out.

Post 406. I talked about why in NY 165.

[geists]

What are your voting tendencies? I have 3 games with you - 2 town (one of which you were miller in, which made reactions to you and by you pretty non-predictive) and one scum. I haven't tried to compare this game to the miller game because I don't think it would be a fair comparison.

My vote almost never moves unless I'm trying to lynch somebody.

If I'm misinterpreting that, then explain what it actually means.

Sakura already picked up on this earlier. I was describing what about Nacho she was trying to emulate.

You commented pretty favorably on my meta analysis of Kaze in the On a Boat game. And also on Empire's meta reads. I almost linked to that, but I do realize that your opinion of meta isn't completely favorable. But, given the above, your rather strongly worded dismissal looks off kilter.

I did like your meta-dive in We're on a Boat because I thought it was impressive. But I don't actually like meta or meta-diving myself.

In the Cash Cabd game you went along with whatever town wanted to push during the first few days of that game. I commented on how agreeable you seemed. I didn't expect you to play this game exactly the same if you're scum. In some ways your play in this game is more generically scum looking and less like that one. This game you seem much more defensive, like you never got off the back foot.

People think I'm being defensive over some post. Is it defensive? If it is, how should I have responded? I respond to things in games for no reason. You should know this.

No one wants to give you a road map to getting town-read if you're scum. But, there are plenty of hints about what's been missing in your play. it's impossible to post a case without describing what's missing.

No, you're calling my post defensive. And it's not.

Read your own ISO and say that again with a straight face.

The game's been open for five days. I'm in other games. Holidays. Apathy. I don't really care.

You had no trouble at all convincing me you were town in the On a Boat game.

Yeah, like I can just turn that shit on like a light switch.

But apparently you scumread me too without interacting with me to try and figure that out more, so hey.

?

Consider this an invitation to turn that shit on. I don't post cases and ignore what I get back.

[geists]

Oh, then i'm missing something so meh. If it's not something super sekrit feel free to point it out.

Post 406. I talked about why in NY 165.

Oh, also meh. You're not tammying the thread up so IDGAF

No, I'm not. Pretty sure my motivation was something different.

[geists]

here's where I'm at. someone ask me smth. I hate this. I feel like I'm standing on a field, the game state is the moon and normally I can see it clearly but all of a sudden smth is covering it up. somebody save me plz > <

town
6. Marquis
11. pieguyn
12. Kalimar
13. KingdomAces Image

Agree on KA. Marquis is null-town due to lack of content/staleness. Kalimar hasn't posted enough for me to have much of a read.

null-town
5. Cabd Image
10. Mac Image

I'm liking Cabd for town right now. Nati I think has some reservations. Hopefully we'll get that sorted out tomorrow.

null
2. Bert SleepyKrew
3. Sakura Hana
4. Geists (fferyllt + Natirasha)
8. theslimer3

I'd move Sakura up. I'm a little surprised we are null, but w/e.

scum
1. Kazekirimaru
7. MafiaSSK thenewearth
9. Brian Skies

Kaze is town. I personally have him in my top town group.

[geists]

I thought you are scumreading me.

[geists]

Sakura, I am leaving that read to Nati. Post 412

[geists]

I'm talking to somebody whose alignment I don't know. I just got out of a game where F-16 was tunneling me all game and we were both town.

I had a look at this game since you mentioned it. I thought that maybe seeing how you reacted to tunneling in that game would shed some light on your reactions here.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

I'm not completely done reading this game, but I'm seeing:

- genuine scumhunting prior to f-16 glomming on to you, and after that point as well.

- much stronger pushback from you re f-16's case.

You're complaining that people aren't telling you why they're scumreading you (at least that's how I interpret some of your remarks). It's really quite simple - your posts have almost all been reactions to questions and FoSes - you did very little scumhunting. And your reactions have been opaque, defensive and deflective. By comparison, your defense in the game with F-16 was very direct, and you kept scumhunting in and around the mutual tunnelling.

[geists]

You're mostly gut. Geists read is based off of playing with Nat too much.

I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

You really think I'm scum. Do explain, ffery.

SSK-bro, I'm gonna level with you: the way you post is super scummy by default, even ignoring the lurking. Thankfully, I can read you pretty well and I've told ffery to let me worry about you. I like that you're keeping me at arm's reach, but I also don't know how you think I'm scum.

[geists]

in the meantime, wanna explain Kaze town? especially given those two posts you made after Sakura jumped on him, I don't understand.

My two posts were mostly a wake-up call to Kaze to check in with his gut. I see this all the time in games, and often catch myself doing the same after the fact. There has been a sea change in how I'm viewing a player, and my first conscious awareness of the change is when I read a post of mine and see that I'm talking to the person like they are town. I usually post again right afterwards and say something to the effect that oh look, my gut has made a decision.

With me, it's probably more difficult to catch that sort of change externally because one of my scum/town-hunting techniques is to talk to a player I suspect as though I see them as town in an exchange, and see what sorts of echoes I get back. I usually don't do that while I have a vote down on the person, though. It tends to confuse them.

[geists]

Good job. You've finally made a nearly convincing vote. Still reactionary for the most part, but now it has a solid meta reason behind it.

I also like that we're coming to similar conclusions separately.

[geists]

You usually put forth more effort by this point, Nat. You've usually given a few reads with reasons. I ain't seeing it from you.

Um, hello? You should know damn well I've been out of town.

[geists]

scum
1. Kazekirimaru
7. MafiaSSK thenewearth
9. Brian Skies

Kaze is town. I personally have him in my top town group.

You really think I'm scum. Do explain, ffery.

I already told you I was leaving you to Nati. One of the things I'm hoping to pick up via hydraing with Nati is how to read you better.

He and I talked for a bit earlier and he thinks you're town. I want to let him explain why.

[geists]

You usually put forth more effort by this point, Nat. You've usually given a few reads with reasons. I ain't seeing it from you.

Um, hello? You should know damn well I've been out of town.

Like seriously I just gotta squote this again because it's like the worst thing I've ever heard.

[geists]

And yet you've managed to post anyways.

Okay I gotta shut this down before we get too much into ongoing games, and I'm really annoyed I can't lay the smack-down.

[geists]

And yet you've managed to post anyways.

Okay I gotta shut this down before we get too much into ongoing games, and I'm really annoyed I can't lay the smack-down.

I'm not even talking about other ongoing games. Your VLA lasted until today and yet 388 which I'm presuming is you, was posted yesterday.

It was Nati. He made the post last night after he got home from his road trip, and we talked a bit about the game on gtalk before he crashed. Enough to confirm that we're both thinking that Brian is scum, and to kick around Cabd's partial claim. Post 388 was mostly to kick-start the process of getting a read on you.

[geists]

Hey Bert,

When are you going to start playing this game?

[geists]

Kaze - pieguyn and "scumpaint" in a town game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p5454112

[geists]

So, yeah. Sakura, Brian, and pie. That order. I'll happily lynch one of these today.

Put Kalimar/Marquis in for pie and this list is probably correct.

[geists]

I'm not as sure about Sakura, especially a Sakura/Brian/?? team. The timing of the first sign of a change of heart re Brian seems a little early for a bus, especially given how little traction my case initially garnered.

The Kaze vote reaction test timing, though. Maybe.

[geists]

I don't really follow the conventional wisdom that there's always one lurkscum in a scumgroup.

Unless you had some other reason?

I don't either, but pie/SSK/KA are all pretty town. Bert I'm gutting as town, Cabd could be fakeclaiming scum. That leaves slimer, Marquis, Mac, and Kalimar to sort for final scum(I kinda forgot Mac & slimer were in this game).

[geists]

In case you're wondering, no ffery or I won't sign posts and yes we're gonna keep posting like this to confuse people.

[geists]

I'm extending you two a bit of a reach. Nati can translate. If you're scum, well, so be it.

Hush you.

[geists]

Some flavor expert you are.

We disagree on you atm. Whodathunk I'd be the one with the tentative townread.

[geists]

In case you're wondering, no ffery or I won't sign posts and yes we're gonna keep posting like this to confuse people.

I'll accept you as one entity for the time being.

I don't see how you(or anyone) could have a solid townread on KA at this point, by the way.

I developed that read on roughly the same set of posts that led to my initial townread of you.

[geists]

I have nothing to say other than AA is like double A batteries.

Good posting.

Gotcha. His lurkiness doesn't affect your read at all, eh?

His lurking is not game-centric.

[geists]

cabd/ffery, what is going down with you two? i see very little pushing from either of you. it worries me.

Cabd's apathy-mode doesn't give me a lot to work with, but I'm leaning town based on what I've got. And what I've got increased exponentially over the last 24 hours or so.

Nati isn't townreading him. We'll get to a consensus at some point.

I'm not going to play a certain way just because it makes you or other players more comfortable. I'm going to play the way that makes sense to me based on the game state, the players I need to sort, and my townreads. The overriding factor is my shelf-life.

That said, I don't feel that I've been particularly ambiguous so far.

[geists]

How does it feel riding the confirmation bias train, pie? Pretty good?

If you're going to shittunnel me at least couple it with a vote in my direction.

Or you could put your vote on the Brian wagon.

[geists]

In fact, Kaze look back at that post. Pie's responding mostly to your points abut his play, not attacking your play.

[geists]

Pie's not just saying I'm wrong, though. He's saying I'm bad, this is bad, I don't see the town motivation here, etc. There's a difference between disagreeing and calling every point someone makes scummy. You can be wrong without being scum.

I'm not getting nearly so much of a "you're scum" vibe from it as from earlier posts. His viewpoint is extremely self/alignment-centric. If he's town, and feels he's obviously town then it's hard to see attacks as town-motivated.

I seriously wish you'd both give it a rest and look elsewhere for a while, though.

[geists]

meh
honestly this whole thing feels like a massive personality clash.

Yeees YEEEEESSS

[geists]

Your misrep of the cases that have been presented on you is noted.

The thumbnail:

- not scumhunting
- almost completely reactive posting
- obfuscatory, deflective replies

[geists]

Deflective questions, Deflective answers (bolded), Contradictory statements blue.

Spoiler: huge wall

this seems really weird. why are you being so defensive about an RVS vote? mb as a not-so-serious post in RVS itself it'd be fine, but you seem to be seriously defending it. scared much?

What about that vote is defensive?

It wasn't really serious. I thought the wording was indicative of that.

Though your reaction to it was very real! You seem a bit bothered, eh? :3

My initial reaction was your vote giving me the warm fuzzies.

Now that I have learned the truth, not so much.

exactly why I think you're being defensive. his vote was a RV just like any other, so why do you feel the need to say it's not true? it's not a serious accusation. 0.0

So you're saying I can't respond to it?

are you initially leaning town or scum on Kaze?

Right now, probably town.

also, what's your opinion on KA?

Okay, so I misread this the first time around and thought you were referring to Kaze. KA's early push against Mac makes me laugh and I think that a push against either you or Marquis would have been more interesting. He already explained his reasoning for not pushing Marquis though.

What about his reply here didn't give you the 'warm fuzzies'?

Was hoping it was a serious vote that had the intention of moving the game forward and be something I could use to sort people.

Alas, the RVS stage continues to disappoint me.

What do you think of the KA wagon?

Useless. The lack of counterwagon bothers me.

nothing's really fkin happened yet. wait till something big happens and then I'll show up :>

This sounds like something I would say.

what's your opinion on Sakura?

:shrugs: Sakura's in this little pocket of people that I don't like to read.

atm he's leaning scum for the reason I pointed out previously.

I don't have an opinion about his play in Stack the Deck. I didn't play the game and haven't meta'd it.

If you want to see strong townreads get mislynched for stupid reasons, it's an interesting read.

in mismatched and stacking the deck he played differently but the vibes i get this game is more of stacking the deck.

Those games are like polar opposites in terms of my seriousness level.

also, Nacho isn't even in this game and there's no votes on Kalimar. can you elaborate plz

Probably something to do with lurker prejudice and attacking anything not moving enough.

why didn't you call me out for keeping my vote on KA while scumreading you?

Wondering if this is also related to me somehow.

I was scumreading her all the way till endgame and that was one of my reasons, so I dunno if this is alignment indicative for her

Was I not fighting the wagon hard enough that game?

Meta just gets in the way of accurate reads

I agree.

if you think my reason is incorrect why didn't you refute it? you just answered my question on KA but didn't respond to why I was scumreading you. 0.0

Aren't you scum-reading me because you thought I was being defensive? I don't really know what you want from me.

I was thinking about posting in this thread and then I realized I'm not an English major

I got an A in my English course, and I tend to argue about semantics, but these guys make my head hurt.

^^ Stuff I didn't like.

1. Seriously defending his rvs vote.

2. Taking the vote on himself seriously "What have you learned?"

I like the RVS stage.

KA wagon is useless because no counterwagon. Aaand...where's his vote? Be the counterwagon you wish to see.

Do you not know my voting tendencies?

And something sort of dismissive of pressure on lurkers? I wonder why?

Where? And since when do I do this?

And a dismissal of meta.

Since when do I like meta?

Here's an ISO from the mismatching flavors micro game, to give you reasons why Brian's play so far feels incredibly bland, unemotional, disengaged and above all, scummy.

I love how when people meta me, they always use my first completed game to do it (and you played in two other games with me, what's the deal?). And I've had to deal with this game for the past month. So much apathy.

Also, holiday season.

If I was scum, I'd be pushing a mislynch by now. You're not trying hard enough Ffery, and it's making me sad.

His reactions to RVS shark-in-the-water activities in this game don't answer suspicions, they deflect them.

What do you want from me? You're calling me being defensive over that post, but no one is saying how I was supposed to respond.

Whew. That took way longer than I thought or needed it to take.

READS LIST:
Scum: Sakura, geists, one of (Kalimar, pieguy)
Null: Brian Skies, Bert
Town: Mac, KA, Kaze, slimer

And what was up with Kalimar's random vote on me?

Oh and in case the mod removed tne's vote

Vote Sakura Hana

because she is literally leaking scum.

Really? I was townreading her earlier?

And I understand Slimer is being Slimer, but a townread?

Nacho at least knows when to listen to me.

Your vote sucks and I'm disappointed in you. Did you draw scum this game?

You townread fferynati due to sakura-pie-kaze clusterfuck?

What? I'm townreading Sakura.

I'm scumreading Ffery

.

And my vote is an RVS vote.

Start off by telling me who you're looking at for scum thus far.

Nothing jumps out at me. Maybe Cabd.

Try again later.

You claiming that was still RVS?

You claiming that's a scumread?

So we're now on page 21 and your vote is still on your RVS instead of a scumread... why, exactly?

Because I feel like it and I'm not convinced anyone else is scum right now.

You're not being wagoned, so why should I care that my vote is on you?

I thought you are scumreading me.

Your push could be town motivated and I wasn't convinced you're scum.

Since you guys are so concerned about my vote, you should take a look at this game.

I made a total of three votes that game. Not a single one of those was on F-16, who I thought was scummy/suspicious the entire game. And it was because I was never convinced.

Brian you really smell like scum trying to move in lockstep with town that is back pedaling when caught on the wrong foot.

And what wrong foot would that be?

Kaze asked you who your scumreads were. I don't get why the hell you'd bring Cabd into this if you weren't scumreading him. like if someone asks you who your scumreads are why would you point out someone who just randomly jumped out for some completely unrelated reason? I don't understand your thought process here.

Cabd was somebody I was interested in sorting. I commented on something.

He gave me a pretty good response.

what the fuck kind of question is this

I get the feeling you're just trolling 0.0

I'm not trolling. I just don't understand what I'm getting pushed for. I'm telling you guys the truth, you guys just either don't believe any of it or you're trying to make me look like scum.

Where was this "good response" and why didn't you indicate as such?

Note my lack of vote on the KA wagon.

Hai. Why does this post contradict what you just said previously?

Because I felt like it? Somebody asked for the reason people were voting KA. I provided what i perceived as the reason, while noting I didn't agree it was worthy of a vote.

Nothing about that statement was town or scummy for me. I don't have a working read on you right now.

So what the fuck did you mean by pretty good response; if not that it gave you a townread?

I asked you a question. It wasn't scummy. It wasn't townie either. I moved on. :shrugs:

This is also the only game I've seen you as an individual player (mismatched doesn't count), so I don't know what I'm looking for. You haven't really done anything alignment indicative for me.

Does sorting me require using meta and personal tells on me?

No, it doesn't. Unless I'm looking for something specific, I only use meta I'm familiar with. I also don't treat all players equally (I'm extremely prejudiced).

But you're not really doing much this game. And I think you can at least acknowledge that.

I mean, I can sit here and give you guys superficial reads like I usually do, but that's not going to help me in any way

.

But you're not really doing much this game. And I think you can at least acknowledge that.

Ten pages ago I would have agreed. Not currently.

Your opinion, not mine.

So why the fuck isn't your vote there if that's a scumread?

Because you're obviously bothered by my vote on you and I'm leaving it there to spite you.

This is almost a textbook of stuff to look for in scumposts.

Brian, I thought you might step things up with some pressure/negative feedback. You haven't.

I'm going to stop beating you over the head with this stuff every time you post and try to give you room to go about doing town stuff if you're town.

That's pretty much the extent of the slack I'm willing to offer.

oops

[geists]

at least I don't slip intentionally.

[geists]

Man ffery sucks at that whole hydra thing

My secret is I set my main account to mafSepia so all my hydras have a different theme by default.

[geists]

Although apparently natirasha didn't get the memo.

What's your Sakura read?

[geists]

town
5. Cabd Image <- i dunno if Cabd gets apathetic as scum, but it didn't seem faked. that plus the role he claimed gives me a solid townread on him for now.
6. Marquis
11. pieguyn
13. KingdomAces Image

null-town
1. Kazekirimaru
7. MafiaSSK thenewearth <- I liked his entrance a lot. mostly cause I connected with what he was saying about Sakura. looking back on my TNE read I know TNE derps around a lot, so not sure atm

null
2. Bert SleepyKrew
3. Sakura Hana
4. Geists (fferyllt + Natirasha) <- I know I heard ffery strongly prefers playing as town, but I don't know what she's capable of as scum. in the one completed game I have with her (as morph the cat) she obvtowned it up somewhere and she hasn't done that yet. might just be paranoia but I don't wanna make any hasty decisions
10. Mac Image
12. Kalimar <- looking back on it, I don't think his entrance is alignment indicative. I connected with his point on ffery/Cabd but on second thought I don't think it'd be very difficult to come up with smth like that as scum

scum
8. theslimer3
9. Brian Skies
.
ftr my townreads that I eliminated were geists/Kalimar. my first pick for 3rd scum atm is Sakura.

It amuses me that you're worried about what I'm capable of as scum while calmly writing Cabd off as town.

If the specter of my scum game is all that worrisome why aren't you doing more to refine your read?

[geists]

I didn't have to click the apathetic scum link to know which game that was.

The Mismatching Flavor micro is another apathetic-scum-Cabd game, or at least day 1 scum-apathy.

About 30-40 percent of my own MS scum meta is contained in those links, I think.

[geists]

@ffery:

why is it you seem to be surprised I'm not townreading you? 0.0 like both reads lists I've posted at this point you've made some comment about how your position seems out of place

It's out of lockstep. We think you'd have a stronger reaction since we've been playing peacekeeper with you & Kaze and we also

single-handedly

created the primary wagon at the moment, in

direct opposition

to your stated wagon. We've also been here, ready to engage, and you've not done that. It just seems really odd for you to have such little read on us after the last ~15 pages.

also, what do you think about theslimer?

Lurker. Not worth dealing with over Brian/Sakura.

@SSK:

can you explain geists town plz?

I'm going to pre-empt here and say that SSK and I are like at like, the highest levels of readability with each other. The fact we're both townreading is a very good sign.

ALSO: I want to lynch today before page 30, so get to it.

[geists]

>

Brian Skies (L-3):

giest | pieguyn | Sakura Hana | Kazekirimaru

Rule of Three.

[geists]

@ffery:

why is it you seem to be surprised I'm not townreading you? 0.0 like both reads lists I've posted at this point you've made some comment about how your position seems out of place

also, what do you think about theslimer?

@SSK:

can you explain geists town plz?

The surprise is not that you are not townreading me. The surprise is that you are not doing more to sort me. So far, the bulk of your questions to me have been of the form "What do you think of Kaze?" and "Do you agree with me about Kaze?".

Now,

If Kaze turns out to be scum, then you could certainly argue that I might be his scum-partner defending the fuck out of him, and indeed even blatantly and obviously starting up a counterwagon on poor, hapless Brian.

There's a metric shitton of my scum meta that suggests that even if I were scum, I wouldn't make that sort of play, but that's a minor hurdle that needs clearing only if Kaze turns out to be scum, and Brian turns out to be town. Or Kaze turns out to be a godlike scum PR and Brian turns out to be a goon, maybe, but that would still be the most needless epic bus of all time given other players I could potentially manufacture a case on.

I seriously doubt that the geists alignment will be at all questionable by the time those possibilities can become facts in evidence. And that's the only reason anyone in this game should offer up for not bothering to work on sorting me on day 1.

I also seriously doubt that Kaze will flip scum.

Re TheSlimer, he's scheduled for a meta dive. I've played 2 games with TheSlimer (he was town in both), and I'm pretty sure he was force-replaced from both due to lack of posting. His posting so far in this game really isn't enough for me to form a read.

[geists]

he's scheduled for a meta dive

hi

You have experiential meta?

[geists]

I skimmed castle, mostly focused on bert's posts because I was looking for your nonexistant smoking gun.

[geists]

I skimmed castle, mostly focused on bert's posts because I was looking for your nonexistant smoking gun.

I still don't regret doing that to you one bit, for the record.

Oddly enough, I don't have any regrets about that game either.

[geists]

Post 651 was made by Nati.

[geists]

I'm going to pre-empt here and say that SSK and I are like at like, the highest levels of readability with each other. The fact we're both townreading is a very good sign.

I thought his read on you was based off Nati, but ok o-o

I'm kind of not sure how to engage you atm, since I know you like to keep some things hidden. I don't wanna risk asking you things that might fk up your agenda if you're town. so I had a lot of trouble figuring out what I could ask you before just deciding to be lazy and leave it for later. mb it wasn't the best idea but oh well

I'm not shy about saying "I'm not gonna answer that right now".

also I'm p sure you noticed but I'm really off this game. I get the feeling I missed a lot of shit since I was just tunneling on Kaze the whole time. I had you as town before I reworked my reads, which I did cause I had so many townreads that I'm almost positive I fked one of them up. you, Kalimar, and more recently Bert were all gut townreads and there's no way in hell I'm correctly reading 9/13 players as town, so when redoing my reads I wanted to make sure I had a specific base instead of just overall feeling. I think I ought to reread the thread and look at shit again > <

p sure I called you on being off on page 3 or 4 or thereabouts. You seemed to recover, though.

do you think theslimer's play so far is similar to Brian's? it seems like the same kind of reactive and deflective playing for me

It kinda does maybe a little bit, though he has shaken a couple trees, including mine.

what motivation do you think Cabd might have for claiming a role that'll die or otherwise be explained on D3? if it's fake, when it gets to D3 it'll just be outed as a fakeclaim.

Plots within plots. He could be town and fake-claiming for a variety of reasons. And most of those reasons would work quite well as the plot-within-a-plot of a scum-based claim.

Right now, I have Cabd as town, but it's not due to the shelf-life aspect of his claim.

what's your read on Mac?

More data needed. I like that he showed immediate paranoia about me getting snarky over a spam insinuation.

[geists]

Oh, and there's something odd about the fferyllt head of geists and Cabd not interacting much so far. As I've played with their morph the cat hydra before, I would have thought they would want to sort each other out fairly early on.

This comment gives me weird vibes, and so far you're pretty scummy because for one reason you haven't really done anything other than ask questions that really you haven't followed up on at all.

But you're not really doing much this game. And I think you can at least acknowledge that.

I mean, I can sit here and give you guys superficial reads like I usually do, but that's not going to help me in any way.

This rings alarm bells in my head YOU KNOW WHY??? Because YOU DONT USUALLY GIVE SUPERFICIAL READS!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHA please don't do this to me!!!!

Well, you sorting me isn't the same as me sorting you. Should I just give you a townread because you're interacting with me? I mean, a lot of the things you're pushing me for aren't exactly difficult things to push.

You are pushing back to Cabd's reach out, and then you put a visibly reluctant reads list that is full of even more nonchalance than ever before. HOWEVER, I give you a BIT of lenience because you've beenb usy as heck lately. But still this is not promising!! I know you can do better than this!!!!!

You're one to talk about fence-sitting. :/

For me, wrt to Cabd, this is as decisive as I'm likely to get without at least a couple apathetic-town-cabd games completed. Right now, I'm making inferences about apathetic-town-Cabd without recourse to meta. It's a model without data, just inferences. I'm willing to do that - go out on a limb - but I don't want to be dead on day 2 or something, and leave him with an ringing endorsement that doesn't get scrutinized.

[geists]

Bert, do your part in ending this day before page 30 and vote Brian!

[geists]

Is that a media advertisement and how do you plan on selling your product to me?

Read our ISO.

Cabd, get in here too. And one more person to hammer. Free towncred!

[geists]

Wait he only has four votes so what's the point in voting Brian right now

18 posts left. We can get him lynched in that time. Cmon, Bert.

[geists]

You read my ISO and you missed my cases? The 2nd one had

bolded

and

blue

formatting along with my incisive and insightful commentary. They are both in spoiler tags because they are looooooong.

[geists]

shut up

[geists]

Oh, I saw some similarities, but the gamestates were so different between day 1 with nothing known here and the later days of that game. I preferred to keep my comparisons closer to this gamestate - day 1.

[geists]

@Kaze: At least you aren't placing me early and saying "you are my only solid townread and I agree with your thought processes" like you did last game. People who comment like that about my thought processes tend to be scum haha

what do you think of SSK and geists townreading each other?

any specific read on Cabd?

Cabd's play is in this grey area because he's apathetic as both alignments, so I can't tell.

In response to SSK and Geist townreading each other, which is news to me (sorry I'm still getting into this game) --> SSK is really scummy so far, so I don't get geist's townread on SSK at all. Also, I don't understand how SSK arrived at a townread on geist beacuse SSK tends to post one-liner questions/statements which makes him/her hard to follow logically.

Nati and SSK know each other well, and have been playing mafia with each other for years. Those reads are pretty much entirely their mutual reads. Nati telling me what to look for will make SSK easier to read in future games I hope.

[geists]

Any questions for me?

[geists]

#LYNCHBY30

I'm not shy about saying "I'm not gonna answer that right now".

yeah, but I get the feeling that sometimes if you even so much as point out you're keeping smth hidden it kind of messes it up a bit anyway, even if you don't say exactly what it is. though thinking about it again I'm not sure that's correct. as I said, it was probably bad idea but oh well

You may be right, but it happens so often that I don't get too irritable about it any more unless a player just won't accept a warn-off.

how does your scumpool compare with {Brian, Kalimar, Mac, Sakura, theslimer}? I'm currently leaning Brian x Sakura x theslimer. everyone else is looking too fkin town for various reasons, but that seems way too easy so I'm convinced one of my townreads is incorrect @_@ do you agree?

I'm leaning town on Mac. Sakura I'm not sure about and Nati has her in his scumpile last we talked. He hydras with her, so maybe that's provided some extra insight. Not enough data on the others, but I do think theslimer has contributed a little more scumhunting than kalimar has.

also, explain your townread on Cabd? that's a good point about his claim and I'm not sure how the hell I missed that possibility earlier, but I wanna know if we're seeing the same thing outside his claim 0.0

I think apathy bother's Cabd more as scum. He prides himself on his scum game. There's an idgaf attitude to his apathy when he's town, I think, that I have not seen when he's been apathetic scum. In one game where he was feeling really apathetic as scum (and also was pretty badly timecrunched), he asked me if I'd replace in as our hydra. I haven't seen him do something that as town, at least not yet.

[geists]

Yeah, I think slimer is scum too. She's way more serious here and some sentences she posted, I couldn't believe they were coming from her, having seen her as town twice.

I still haven't meta'd theslimer.

Will try to do that during the night phase, but may say fuck it because N1K sucks.

[geists]

I do think theslimer has contributed a little more scumhunting than kalimar has.

Since when does slimer openly scumhunt seriously as a town player?

hellifino. that's why I need to meta slimer.

Also re: Cabd - he's not going to make that a pattern with asking someone to replace in with him such as in Mismatched, that would raise serious red flags.

In this player list for sure. My point was more that Cabd's been smugly apathetic and I don't think that's how he'd feel as scum.

Also, his level of energy in the game took a sharp uptick with the formation of Brian's wagon.

[geists]

Yeah...that does suck. :/

KingdomAces is pretty capable as town/scum from what Ree said back in the day, and so it's hard to get a read for me.

Funny ffery that you don't often mention the possibility of you being a N1 kill in my past games. But I understand that it's valid though.

The frequency with which I mention it is proportional to the frequency with which it happens.

It also seems to vary based on different hydra, which is kinda weird, but w/e.

[geists]

Don't make me look back to see who your townreads are.

[geists]

town
5. Cabd Image <- i dunno if Cabd gets apathetic as scum, but it didn't seem faked. that plus the role he claimed gives me a solid townread on him for now.
6. Marquis
11. pieguyn
13. KingdomAces Image

null-town
1. Kazekirimaru
7. MafiaSSK thenewearth <- I liked his entrance a lot. mostly cause I connected with what he was saying about Sakura. looking back on my TNE read I know TNE derps around a lot, so not sure atm

null
2. Bert SleepyKrew
3. Sakura Hana
4. Geists (fferyllt + Natirasha) <- I know I heard ffery strongly prefers playing as town, but I don't know what she's capable of as scum. in the one completed game I have with her (as morph the cat) she obvtowned it up somewhere and she hasn't done that yet. might just be paranoia but I don't wanna make any hasty decisions
10. Mac Image
12. Kalimar <- looking back on it, I don't think his entrance is alignment indicative. I connected with his point on ffery/Cabd but on second thought I don't think it'd be very difficult to come up with smth like that as scum

scum
8. theslimer3
9. Brian Skies

ftr my townreads that I eliminated were geists/Kalimar. my first pick for 3rd scum atm is Sakura.

Is this your most recent? Of marquis, Kingdom Aces and Cabd, I'm the least sure of marquis. But, I don't have a completed game with KA so wtf do I know? I just think he's town. And, Cabd is Cabd. I think I've mostly banished baseless paranoia wrt him, but I can't even guess how I'd feel about him on day 3 of a mini game.

[geists]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Slimer

Let's act like one of the players voting actually has no vote~

Trickster.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Slimer

[geists]

can someone remind me why slimer is being voted?

also i feel like gambit king for helping

Well not really because brian is fucking dead as dead can be afaik, but hey.

I am hearing popping noises inside my skull.

[geists]

Kaze is town.

I also seriously doubt that Kaze will flip scum.

Kaze will probably be insulted (again) but his town play tends to look more chaotic than his scum play from what I've seen.

This easy of a read for her, huh.... Hmm.

I've played 2 completed games with him, one where we were both town and one where we were both scum. I meta'd him for the town game because it was our first game together and he was getting run up.

I handwaved over that meta for the scum game and gave him a totally bogus "leaning town" read from it. But, if anyone had really read his ISO in the context of one of his town games they would have known in an instant that he was scum in that game.

I feel confident that he's town in this game based on partnering with scum-him in the newbie game, and based on spotting him as town in our first game.

[geists]

Grant motion for appeal

That one actually fits the flavor.

[geists]

Lol if Ffery is scum this game, we are in deep shit again because literally no one suspects them

You must be reading some other game.

[geists]

If the second kill was by a vig, then oh my god you suck.

If there's another two kill night then for fuck sake assume it's an SK. The on a boat mini had an SK who won the game because it was a 10-2-1 setup and town assumed 9-3-1 once they finally realized the "vig" wasn't a vig.

I would bet cash money that Kaze was the scumkill. Cabd do you agree? and who (besides me/Nati and probably you) would have spotted him yesterday? Sakura? Kalimar probably could as well. Maybe Mac but of those 3 he's most townward to me.

[geists]

From the cardflips:

Conditional IC-rizer can use his ability whenever someone other than himself is at L-1. If the target is town, the votes reset and the target is declared as town by mod. If the target is not town, the IC-rizer dies and the day ends.

[geists]

Oh I missed that.

Who do you have as scum?

[geists]

SSK is town. So sayeth Nati, thus it must be.

[geists]

SSK, Slimer, 1 of Mac/KA (don't think they could be scum together), and Kalimar.

why does one of us have to be scum at all?

What are your reads?

[geists]

I wanna massclaim today.

[geists]

Why the fuck is that, exactly?

So hostile. Struck a nerve?

Because I think this game can be broken given the current flips.

[geists]

Lastly, that move by Ffery to have us hammer Brian was so bold, that's part of why I have her as town. Unless there is some aspect of planning and I'm underestimating Ffery's ability. Maybe she was trying to take out a strong town player at his weakest point, and shoving that down our throats, but I seriously doubt it. Also, I need to look at what I posted yesterday to refresh myself on why all of my gut feelings are/were what they are/were. My fear is that the nulls are scraping by and I'm overlooking one of them.

All the posts page 29-30 were me. That change anything?

[geists]

Also, once again, I want a massclaim starting with Sakura and popcorning.

[geists]

SSK, Slimer, 1 of Mac/KA (don't think they could be scum together), and Kalimar.

why does one of us have to be scum at all?

What are your reads?

townreading cabd like crazy. the sad thing is that's my only strong townread which is annoying the fuck out of me :/

SSK is a strong townread for Nati. I'm leaning town on you though I had a flash of ohshit no no no not scum when you pretended to unvote Brian.

leaning town on kingdomaces i think. + marquis. possibly you, but you still haven't been towntelling hard like you normally do. and it's throwing me a little.

I remember stuff about KA having a more difficult scum game to catch than maybe I'd think during twilight.

I can't help you with the lack of towntelling. AFAIAC I'm playing the game as hard as I usually do. Maybe a little harder because shiny new hydra, no scratches no dents.

scumreading sakura. and bert.

not sure about bertscum. I need to think about this game when I have less sleep deficit.

kalimar, slimer and SSK need to get more fucking involved. possible scum in there.

Agree. I'm looking at kalimar and slimer.

[geists]

I'm not entirely sure which was the scumkill. I certainly didn't pick up on anything from kaze but I'm horrible at crumb/hint finding.

It wasn't crumbs. It was pure PR attitude. "I'm not getting lynched."

[geists]

go on?

That would defeat the purpose.

Sakura should claim regardless.

Also my phone died ffery so if you wanna chat hit me on site chat.

[geists]

Is this a flavor massclaim, a role massclaim, or both, here?

Something in between. I can likely guess role from flavor, if needed.

And did you get what I told you yesterday? You should see why I am adverse to the idea.

Your crumb was 2deep4me. I think I get what you're getting at but I'm not confident in the slightest.

Why do I have a feeling that even if people refuse to the massclaim you're gonna make me claim anyways...

Because you're the primary scum today.

possibly. i honestly can't point out what it is yet. i don't even know if i'm just being a paranoid fuck or what.

It's probably just me. I never learned how to be obvtown.

[geists]

Your smiler worries are being held under sakura?

I've thought Sakura was scum before it was cool. I don't usually think Sakura is scum ever too.

[geists]

Also, once again, I want a massclaim starting with Sakura and popcorning.

I disagree with this as a massclaim in general, for the record.

Then I want this to stop here and now unless/until you and Nati agree whether it makes sense to proceed.

[geists]

i think most of the time i townread you im right. and most of the time i scumread you, im right.

why did you ignore the first part of that post?

lol. They'll never understand, ffery.

Well unless you guys have a day neighborize, I'm not exactly sure how we'd go about doing that.

Just talk to me here. I'm willing to concede to ffery at the moment, but I'm just saying my setup hunch is hunching.

[geists]

ohshit no no no not scum when you pretended to unvote Brian.

...? never happened, unless im just forgetting.

I can't help you with the lack of towntelling. AFAIAC I'm playing the game as hard as I usually do. Maybe a little harder because shiny new hydra, no scratches no dents.

possibly. i honestly can't point out what it is yet. i don't even know if i'm just being a paranoid fuck or what.

You're being a paranoid fuck.

[geists]

because town has no reason to softclaim their name or role.

I softclaimed my role name.

Also that settles it, I want a mass flavorclaim at the least. Thoughts, Cabd?

[geists]

am i miissing an inside joke?

People just can't figure out who's who in this hydra.

[geists]

It's probably just me. I never learned how to be obvtown.

i think most of the time i townread you im right. and most of the time i scumread you, im right.

why did you ignore the first part of that post?

That was Nati.

I just went back to check and I'm hallucinating about the why, but I do remember an ohshit moment in the page 29-33 range.

Three hours sleep wasn't enough. :/ I

[geists]

Three hours sleep wasn't enough. :/ I

Go sleep, Lady ffery, I'll handle this for now.

[geists]

do you often softclaim ffery?

i see no reason for town to softclaim at all.

I pretty much never softclaim.

I didn't even know that "we" had softclaimed until Nati said something about it.

[geists]

Flavorclaim is something I'll accept but don't be suprised when it gives us nothing to work with. Gif isn't a mod that would let mass flavorclaim defeat him.

Even the best mod can fall prey to that particular Siren's Call.

[geists]

You can take those doubts you have on me, Ffery, and shove them down the drain. No but seriously, I'm gonna leave this thread until tonight before I spam it up by accident. Lol.

Also reads list incoming tonight in spurts. Breakfast time grr. Gotta swipe meal card before 4:30 or waste lunch.

My job is to notice you towning it up.

[geists]

And no to the flavor claim. Something tells me that all it will end up doing is outing the PR's. Just look at the flips so far: PhoenixPR and Lotta/Oldbag VT's. If we are doing a flavor claim, then we might as well fullclaim, since we might as well be giving the same information to the scum. Now is also way too early for a fullclaim.

This is true and part of the reason I want to flavorclaim.

[geists]

What town benefit could there possibly be to outing the PR's?

What town benefit could there be in not outing the PRs?

[geists]

This is Ace Attorney, KA, you gotta turn your thinking around.

[geists]

They get killed by scum before they actually get to use their role, and then we're playing mountainous. No amount of turning your thinking around will make that a good idea.

This is a very shallow thought process.

[geists]

Moe? With an ability? I had you pinned as Edgeworth, Sakura.

[geists]

I really think that burden of proof is on you here, since if we massclaim now and get nothing from it, which I think would be far more likely to happen, then we are just giving scum the win.

I think roles coincide with flavor and I think flavor is abusable this game. ie I think I can figure out which are the fakeclaims/scumclaims.

[quot]I also should mention that we already lost a free mislynch in the form of Kaze's role. There's no way something that strong is going unchecked by anything other than the chance they get killed before they use it. We are already incredibly behind, there's no reason to risk losing on the spot.[/quote]
Kaze obviously misplayed his role by not using it on Brian & not fullclaiming it at d1 start.

[geists]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU FUCKING CLAIM?

In fairness she's been put under a lot of pressure to do just that.

[geists]

Sakura's learning how to fakeclaim for the best, straight up.

[geists]

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU FUCKING CLAIM?

Maybe i am claiming, maybe im not, cabd/ffery/bert know there's no way to tell for certain

We can always lynch you and find out that way.

[geists]

But hey what a coincidence, I target Cabd last night with an ability, then say this at thread start:

Anyway my townread on Cabd has increased to exponential levels now.

And suddenly ffery/nat pursue me to claim, SUCH A COINCIDENCE!

Is this a FoS?

[geists]

Ok but when i flip Town PR lynch SSK for me tomorrow.

Target Cabd->Suspicion on us->SSK is scum from flip? Whaa?

[geists]

The parallels to that newbie game appear once more.

I'm seeing more tangents and reverse images personally.

[geists]

And I'm not trying to avoid tripping over crumbs and fake claims. I don't give a fuck. I just want to find scum.

What are you thinking about Sakura, Cabd?

[geists]

Sakura seems to be proving your point better than you are, because that makes absolutely no sense. But anyway, why would you think scum would fakeclaim a PR? They're ahead, so they wouldn't need to do something like that.

Then we have confirmed town by that logic.

NOOOOOOOOO!

Anyways, I think Sakura needs to fullclaim no matter what at this point.

[geists]

High-risk, High-reward, Sakura.

[geists]

Why not roll the dice?

[geists]

I gotta step out for a bit, but we can continue this later, Sakura-chan.

[geists]

goddamnit

Nati and I talked about how much we hoped the doc was paying attention yesterday. And wished we'd drawn that role. :/

Should have known it would be someone who doesn't read PR fucking tells. Not that it would have mattered because jailkeep.

We're working on this, Morph.

[geists]

ALSO SETUP SPEC HAS LED TO TOWN LYNCHES/LOSSES IN TOO MANY OF MY RECENT GAMES.

I'm not ruling out the game having both a JK and a Doc.

[geists]

Something similar to that. I'm not gonna go into details. Just assume i'll be dead before lylo and go from there.

I could

direct

you to gif's avatar being a

hottie

(bitches with green hair etc), but let's keep this game relevant, shall we?

ugh.

[geists]

Something similar to that. I'm not gonna go into details. Just assume i'll be dead before lylo and go from there.

I could

direct

you to gif's avatar being a

hottie

(bitches with green hair etc), but let's keep this game relevant, shall we?

ugh.

Ugh what. Ugh you missed it?

scoured character lists for someone with green fucking hair.

[geists]

It wasn't a pr tell. I knew there was a crumb in that statement. Couldn't figure out what it was.

[geists]

That's confirmable, so moving on.

[geists]

SSK is town.

Slimer or Kalimar would be my choice, I think. Will update my thoughts before we close up day 2.

[geists]

massclaim stalled out. Mac choose who goes next.

[geists]

So glad Maya is something fully confirmable this time around. Last time, she was secretly Dahlia Hawthorne.

[geists]

Since we almost 100% have an SK, JK+Doc is fine. Now, I find scum JK a thing that could happen as well though.

[geists]

We're Sal Manella, not claiming role yet though.

[geists]

I'll claim after geists claim their role. But man, my feet are sticky.

Step it up, SSK-dono.

We're VT. That line up with what you got?

[geists]

@MOD: Is there any bastard elements to this game

[geists]

Just watch Ffery claim Treestump or whatever she had in Feirei's game

I am still mourning that role.

Though morbid townie was probably the most appropriate role for me ever.

[geists]

Who did you target last night Cabd?

[geists]

You.

Damn. CPR Doc spec failed

[geists]

Who did you target last night Cabd?

You.

pedit

jesus christ

I'd give free pr-spotting lessons but you guys would use them when you're scum too.

[geists]

Bert-Maya Fey, 1 shot channeler
Sakura Hana-Moe, Jailkeeper
Cabd-Director Hottie, Doctor
SSK-Gumshoe, Tracker
geists-Sal Manella, VT
Mac-Winston Payne, VT
Kalimar-
Slimer-
KingdomAces-
Marquis-

Kazekirimaru-Phoenix Wright, IC-er
pieguyn-Lotta Hart, VT
Brian Skies-Wendy Oldbag, VT

I think I got this down, but we'll see.

[geists]

i need y'all to claim before i do

Tough shit. You're here. Claim.

[geists]

i need y'all to claim before i do

Like you're on my short list of scum, so I refuse to let you claim last.

[geists]

Yupyup

VOTE: Marquis