Mini 1806 : DotA Mafia [Round 1 - SD] (Game Over ?!)

[Ircher]

VOTE: Nos

[Ircher]

The Dire neighborhood is dead silent

[Ircher]

VOTE: Shiro

Obviously isn't reading.

[Ircher]

Fire, what's your reasoning behind outing one of your discards? What was your goal with that? Because in our pt I felt you were town because of your hands-on approach of this game, but seeing you claim that discard, and then checking out what it is, makes me think you want us to think you are town a little too much. Do you want everybody to claim 1 discard? If not, what makes it so important that you share a discard and the rest does not?

I would like to know too, BUT

@Mod - Don't the Single Draft rules state you will show all the discarded heroes, but not who discarded them?

[Ircher]

But its parts of the rules is what I'm saying.

[Ircher]

Clan PT

[Ircher]

Before we get too far along, I'd like to politely request that the Survivor come forward. You don't have to if you're scared, but I see no reason why either side should kill a Survivor.

And scum: don't even think about faking. I will find out, and you will be lynched.

Thats a horrible suggestion -- Doing so is against their win con since survivor cant win with town or mafia

[Ircher]

VOTE: Shiro

Obviously isn't reading.

Nah man, I am reading

This is Shiro's first post in the thread. What made you think they weren't reading Ircher?

Clan PT

I asked in the PT what they thought about Fure's discard claim. Shiro's response was along the lines of "Who Cares?", so I took that as not having read the main thread and why these circumstances makes Fire's attempt to get us massclaim discards a bit sketchy.

[Ircher]

Scratch that, Survivor wins with either alignment.

Ok, you're suggestion is fine.

[Ircher]

Scratch that, Survivor wins with either alignment.

Ok, you're suggestion is fine.

No, it isn't.
Survivor should 100% not claim.

Please explain. Survivor can win with either faction, so I think it's ok for them to claim.

[Ircher]

Fair enough.

[Ircher]

It is however to the survivors win con to claim, since the survivor must actually be alive

[Ircher]

It is however to the survivors win con to claim, since the survivor must actually be alive

If they claim I will 100% push them.

If thr claim is true, then you're basically giving mafia an extra night to kill.

[Ircher]

It is however to the survivors win con to claim, since the survivor must actually be alive

If they claim I will 100% push them.

If thr claim is true, then you're basically giving mafia an extra night to kill.

Where do you come up with this kind of logic if I may ask?
If we mislynch we gave scum an extra night kill with this own logic.

Exactly.

The survivor is begnign 3p that can win with either alignment.

Therefore, lynching it as either alignment is a mislynch for both town and mafia, but it helps the mafia more so cuz town wasted a lynch on a player who could possibly win with them.

[Ircher]

I will 100% oppose a Survivor lynch.

They could be a swing vote in lylo that may very well save this Town
Granted they could just as easily end us, but having them alive would give us that chance at surviving a critically low Town population.

They'd be kingmaker except they win regardless in that situation.

[Ircher]

Basically, Survivor ends up in LyLo regardless.

If mafia decides to kill the aSurvivor, it really doesn't benefit them much unless the Survivor is more interested in helping town then Mafia.

Which, if that's the case, then the survivor isn't really playing to win con, as they are asking for the mafia to nk them.

[Ircher]

Survivor can win with mafia. Therefore I don't even consider it a mislynch

It can win with town too, and mafia gain more from lynching the survivor than town does.

[Ircher]

Really, @Frozen's Future Reference, I think the Survivor is rather broken as it's almost bound to get in LyLo, be kingmaker, and have an almost guaranteed win.

Mafia could fakeclaim, but it isn't worth it in the long run esp. since the survivor can win with them.

Town lynching the Survivor is an utterly stupid idea that is worse than No Lynch since you're 1) Lynching someone confirmed to be not against you and 2) You're giving mafia a free kill basically.

[Ircher]

Survivor can win with mafia. Therefore I don't even consider it a mislynch

Considering that this was a even a debate , this is the exact attitude to take.
The fact that Ircher doesn't like the idea of pushing a lynch on a claimed Survivor instead of letting them live to LyLo is crazy.

Doesn't mean that either Fire or Dunnstral get town credit for thinking this way, as scum will always be happy to lynch a claimed survivor over the risk of themselves.
This just really goes against Ircher imo.

They can win with town too. Why would you give mafia an extra night to kill townies?

[Ircher]

Really, @Frozen's Future Reference, I think the Survivor is rather broken as it's almost bound to get in LyLo, be kingmaker, and have an almost guaranteed win.

Mafia could fakeclaim, but it isn't worth it in the long run esp. since the survivor can win with them.

Town lynching the Survivor is an utterly stupid idea that is worse than No Lynch since you're 1) Lynching someone confirmed to be not against you and 2) You're giving mafia a free kill basically.

We aren't going to put into a huge argument or spend anymore of this day on talking about whether to lynch survivors because its 1) Policy talk 2) Not scummhunting.

So I am leaving that talk about this.
Now about the setup thing you complain about. This setup has been in development for several months. Before it was in signups and before then the division of numbers of scum-survivor-town were already implemented. To complain about it now seems absurd to me. To complain at all, and say "Just so you know". It just irks me. As a setup developer who has put out games as semi-open when people only complain about the game during the game. Its the most annoying thing in the world.

1) I knew about the setup thread, but I never really looked closely til recently (when I decided to join)
2) It may be annoying, but 90% of it is how you view it.
3) There's a reason this is an experiment/test run.

So, while you have some basis, I think you took the comment way over-the-top.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Yume

I can clearly tell you've been elsewhere on the site.Why are you avoiding this thread?

[Ircher]

VOTE: Yume

I can clearly tell you've been elsewhere on the site.Why are you avoiding this thread?

Actually, I rescind this statement, but the vote stays as encouragement to participate more.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Yume

I can clearly tell you've been elsewhere on the site.Why are you avoiding this thread?

Actually, I rescind this statement, but the vote stays as encouragement to participate more.

What makes you rescind that statement?

Yume made only 1 post during the weekend, and it was a few minutes ago.

So, I might have misguagwd (some people do become V/LA for weekends)

[Ircher]

Yes, I made the post before checking its validity under faulty assumptions.

[Ircher]

Probably.

[Ircher]

Both of you are being stubborn....

[Ircher]

I assume that your account is boosted.
Here's a few things that you need to know.
1 - Scum know who their partner are
2 - Scum get a night kill
3 - If scum know who Survivor is, then they will not attack that person
4 - % of Town being killed rises from Survivor saying their role.

You are welcome.

True (and why them outing is bad for town) BUT

Earth is just saying that having scum dead is better than having town dead. Earth could've worded it better, but the meaning is still clear.

[Ircher]

lolololol you actually think giving scum a target is helpful to town? lolololol

Literally... A target, whom we give... For free... Without any scum drive... Clean and simple kill... NO INFORMATION TO BE GIVEN TO TOWN... IS ACTUALLY PRO-TOWN?

Check your head for a second there

Scum wouldn't kill a Survivor until we get closer to LyLo.

[Ircher]

>Account boosted

What lol

^

[Ircher]

Also:

VOTE: Snarky

Useless in PT; useless here (literally posts "Hi!" and leaves); Obvscum

[Ircher]

lolololol you actually think giving scum a target is helpful to town? lolololol

Literally... A target, whom we give... For free... Without any scum drive... Clean and simple kill... NO INFORMATION TO BE GIVEN TO TOWN... IS ACTUALLY PRO-TOWN?

Check your head for a second there

Scum wouldn't kill a Survivor until we get closer to LyLo.

THAT'S ALL THE MORE REASON SURVIVOR IS ANTI-TOWN THEN HOLY FUCK

The reason being that Survivor is auto-win kingmaker in LyLo and might not be good to have around.

[Ircher]

Earth is just saying that having scum dead is better than having town dead. Earth could've worded it better, but the meaning is still clear.

So explain when I said that I don't want scum lynched, or even remotely said it's a bad idea for her to come up with that theory. I'm pretty sure she didn't mean that, other wise she would not have voted me for something that she also agrees with (assume from what you said).
I see it as a quick try to push focus from the people under the spot light, example - Radical.
It can be pretty common for scum team mates to follow their team mate votes.

P-edit

TNE, you won't ever get it. Just carry on with your vote and day.

You never did, but that was my original take.

Perhaps I've misjudged, but consider the other side's argument first (even if they're wrong) so you can clear up confusion better.

[Ircher]

Its means 2 things

1) Survivor has reason to help scum
2) Scum have reason to stay away from survivor, literally pitting all the kills against town.

And if you actually give them a target to kill that's FREE then you're out of your mind

Number 1 is false, but number 2 is fair and just.

[Ircher]

I assume that your account is boosted.
Here's a few things that you need to know.
1 - Scum know who their partner are
2 - Scum get a night kill
3 - If scum know who Survivor is, then they will not attack that person
4 - % of Town being killed rises from Survivor saying their role.

You are welcome.

I felt like I was the only one who realized this.

Then you're not reading closely

[Ircher]

Players who need to talk more: Yume, SnarkySnowman
Players who need to engage with more and say more in their posts: Dunnstral and Shiro

I have a small town lean on Vedith as of now, but I don't know if I like that.
His reasoning and thinking seems aligned with me, but that doesn't mean same alignment, and he could easily be piggybacking off anyone else. Meh, town right now.

Lets wagon Snarky who literally came in just to say hi.

[Ircher]

I'm here hi

And dorsnt follow up or nothing. Just "Hi".

(Also: Check the PT)

[Ircher]

I just saw.

Anyway, either wagon is fine, but I think there's more merit to the Snarky wagon rn.

Pedot: Never did I mention policy lynching.

[Ircher]

Problem is we also have Yume, but given her track record of replacing out of games. That will solve itself.

Yume looked a bit better than you know who....

[Ircher]

Who do you think is mafia in the active players?

Probably Fire, but I feel both of them are inactive.

[Ircher]

Cuz I think both of them are inactive; I just said that

[Ircher]

Cuz I think both of them are inactive; I just said that

View on Shiro speaking in the Dire forum and not here?

I'm not sure. The talk in the Dire neighborhood so far has been unhelpful and Yume might not be scum. And, Shiro did stop talking when you called Shiro out.

I'd prob. put Snarky as #1 scumread then Shiro then Yume then Fire right now.

[Ircher]

Why dont we share what's going on in the neighborhoods?

[Ircher]

(By we, I mean

*ALL*1/b] of us; everyone should give a recap of what's happened so far in the clan PT regardless if someone else has already done so from the same clan.)

[Ircher]

Ircher's Summary of Dire Chat

:

1. I begin asking if they're town (since it's my words, I can state them directly: "Are you guys town?")
2. Shiro and Yume basically say "Hi".
3. We talk about scumhunting in the neighborhood and I mention it is theoretically possible for neither of the mafia to be in Dire clan.
4. Snarky asks if we're all town or scum.
5. The rest of pg 1 is pretty much filled with posts from Nos (who got replaced for some reason by Vedith)

6. I ask the neighborhood what they think about Fire's discard claim.
7. Shiro, missing the point completely (hence my not reading comment) responds with a "Who cares?" statement
8. Vedith says it's useless to claim discards without majority consent.
9. Vedith also quotes Snarky's earlier question and asks how we all of us can be scum if Snarky is town.
10. The conversation shifts to talking about lynching the other faction and pros/cons.
11. Shiro states Fire is town.
12. Vedith states that it is more likely from their point of view for the Radiant Clan to be scum.
13. Vedith recovers when questioned by me by stating he was only thinking of Radical Rat (I guess typo?) Also throws shade on Shiro's comment that Radiant is Dire's enemy.

[Ircher]

I'm worried about putting Snarky at L-1, because he's not here.

Well, she's been in PT tonight. So it's more of a personal choice to not post here.

[Ircher]

Wait a minute



Snarky doesn't intend to catch up, do they....

Tonight? Nah, too tired. Tomorrow probably though.

That beetlejuice

^

You promised tonight

[Ircher]

Masq is town for the Fire-Masq interactions.

Fire/Vedith I'm kinda divided on -- Fire's entrance was meh, but his content seems to have gotten better. Vedith seems like he's scumhunting, but it also seems he's being a bit nitpicky.

Snarky/Shiro/Yume -- There's probably at least 1 scum in that group.

Radical -- Not sure tbh. Same for Earth.

Dunn is also town imo based on his content.

[Ircher]

Shiro, you have given a townread on Fire and mild town on Vedith. What about the rest?

Take w lucky guess if they aren't mentioned as town reads or called put as scum.

Take w lucky guess?
Also, I don't guess. I make players state their reads and if they can't they are scummy.

^

[Ircher]

Masq is town for the Fire-Masq interactions.

Fire/Vedith I'm kinda divided on -- Fire's entrance was meh, but his content seems to have gotten better. Vedith seems like he's scumhunting, but it also seems he's being a bit nitpicky.

Snarky/Shiro/Yume -- There's probably at least 1 scum in that group.

Radical -- Not sure tbh. Same for Earth.

Dunn is also town imo based on his content.

Where da others at?

[Ircher]

@Vedith -- Why'd you bring Radical to L-1?

L-2 is ok, but L-1 can be dangerous.

[Ircher]

It's a problem cuz there's always those people who lolhammer as either alignment.

[Ircher]

It's a problem cuz there's always those people who lolhammer as either alignment.

And those people are anti town regardless and need dealing with.
I've not seen it in any games I've read up on recently. Not to say it won't happen though.

Some of them are decent even if they are a pain in the neck. It's more common than you think.

[Ircher]

How ironic is that a survivor is survivor hunting.

Bzzt

Am I missing some context here? What you referring to?

Same

[Ircher]

Tbh, I think Radical just claimed to be Survivor.....

Out of those choices, I'd lynch Shiro first.

[Ircher]

why would you lynch a non threat?

Because its not my alignment and thats a threat

VOTE: Earth

[Ircher]

why would you lynch a non threat?

Because its not my alignment and thats a threat

VOTE: Earth

This^

Probably not productive though.... Let's wagon Snarky

VOTE: Snark

[Ircher]

Yeah that wasn't productive and I don't get why you want to eliminate players who are survivor haters over you know, scumhunting.
Unless you had a scum read on tenewarth

Sounded more like mafia wanting to get town to waste a lynch.

[Ircher]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

L-1 boys

I approve this message.

[Ircher]

@Fire

Can we lynch Snarky? I realky dont think Radical is mafia.

[Ircher]

Huh?

[Ircher]

Thanks @Fire and this game did come to a standstill.

[Ircher]

Also, everyone should not visit Fire tonight.

[Ircher]

You just happened to appear when you got lynched though?
Convenient.

Like stated in the Dire PT; Snarky was actively avoiding the main thread yet was doing a few posts in the neighborhood.

[Ircher]

Theres possibly twilight abilities.

[Ircher]

No it wasn't, it was to progress this game that has stalemated.
Snarky is also likely survivor or mafia so I am feeling better about the more he doesn't say or comment on the fact he got lynched beyond "nice job"
Could have said "I was town" or some variation, but didn't.

If he was also town I would expect him to give us the discards too.

I might be just conf bias the conclusion I reached, but it all tells me this was right thing to do.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Radical

[Ircher]

First, let me just say: Totally called it.

That aside, look through my ISO, and all my preaching about letting the Survivor live, and tell me I either killed, or allowed a kill, on them.
If that isn't enough, consider all that everyone else has said about Mafia not killing the Survivor.

If I knew who the Survivor was, and I did, my Mafia would never had made that kill. So the only conclusion is: I'm not Mafia.

No, you survivor-claimed several times.

[Ircher]

Technically, I did hit L-1, and I said I would claim. I worry this will get me NKed, but if I get lynched that won't matter anyway.

I'm Town Bane, with current abilities Enfeeble and Brain Sap, both of which allow me to mess with the votes. Enfeeble will let me remove someone's voting ability, and Brain Sap will let me redirect votes off of me.

I don't think anyone on my wagon is lynch-worthy (

Lynching Survivor is a dick move imo

, and I feel like actual Scum is either Yume, Snarky, or both ), and while removing a vote is tempting, I'd rather the votes on me be moved somewhere useful.

So why were you talking about someone else being a survivor so much?

[Ircher]

New subject: Who all visited Fire last night?

[Ircher]

Fire Assassin......

[Ircher]

Isn't this literally rolefishing right now?

No.

[Ircher]

Oh, and if it wasn't obvious, I definitely visited Fire last night.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Fire

[Ircher]

There are two fires in the game now, Ircher

When and where. Just cuz Fire altslips doesn't mean FB is a new player

[Ircher]

Fire/Radical scumteam; simple as that.

That being said, Dunn has some kind of guilty on you, so we're lynching you first.

[Ircher]

While we're waiting on people to show up and either vote or argue, shall we discuss our respective PTs?

Radiant was mostly quiet, with a bit of discussion of Shiro's action yesterDay, and whether the role choice is alignment indicative. We didn't really come to any real conclusions though.

Speaking of Shiro...
Have you and Snarky anything relevant to report?

The thread is dead.

[Ircher]

Snarky died Radical......

Shiro has a PT with Snarky now.

And how do you know that?

[Ircher]

Ah, ok.

[Ircher]

No, the clan thread is 100% dead without Vedith.

[Ircher]

I dunno for some reason I feel you are town fake claiming this because you are certain fire is scum

I am pretty sure its scum fake claiming this for a few points:
1) I don't believe their is a cop ability in this setup at all (Not that I dived extremely into it)
2) I didn't visit anyone last night because all of my abilities are passive.

So how he can have a guilty at all, let alone any form of guilty is laughable at best.
This setup has no guilties and Masq joining that for this reason makes me want to reexamine her.

You DID get roleblocked yesterday anyway.

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:

[Ircher]

Actually, if Dunn got a Cop guilty on Fire last night, then he's lying.

Because, I roleblocked Fire and anyone who targeted Fire last night.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Dunn

[Ircher]

Fire doesn't need to claim because it's impossible save a redirection for anyone to have gotten a guilty last night, and he prob. didn't execute the faction kill last night either since it still went through.

[Ircher]

I didnt see any cop guilties. Regardless, it's impossible unless I got redirected for Dunn to have any sort of result on Fire.

[Ircher]

I didnt see any cop guilties. Regardless, it's impossible unless I got redirected for Dunn to have any sort of result on Fire.

Plus this....

[Ircher]

Didn't think about it til this morning.

[Ircher]

I mean, I knew how the role worked but I wasn't thinking in terms of Dunn having to actually visit Fire to get a guilty.

Silly, but often how it works.

[Ircher]

So

Dun and Ircher for scum?

Ircher desperate last moment bussing for cred?

Considering the Fire lynch nearly went through, why would scum!Ircher with scum!Dunn decide to suddenly derail the wagon on town!Fire to divert it to my scum partner scum!Dunn?

[Ircher]

Cause dun was done for the moment I said I don't remember a character that can cop. It was a matter of time after that.

Town cred abundant by being one of the first to jump over.

Not really considering Fire was L-1 with earth having intent to hammer.

[Ircher]

Imo, yes, earth would've prob. lolhammered.

[Ircher]

Okay I went to check if factional kill counts as the only ability that scum can do:

Mafia have a factional kill as well , which is counting like other non-passive skills with 1 cycle cooldown.

So its possible for that theory to be true and if someone tried to do some sort of check on me would fail due to Ircher blocking me.
I guess thats +1 to you guys for that theory.

That makes that impossible.

If I visited Fire to roleblock him (assuming Fire and I are scum), then I cannot perform the factional kill, as all active abilities are exclusive of each other. And Fire couldn't execute the kill cuz the kill would be blocked.

So no, occam's razor suggests that scum!Ircher + scum!Fire team is almost impossible.

[Ircher]

Anyway, I did breadcrumb my action during twilight.

Mafia have a factional kill as well , which is counting like

other non-passive skills

with 1 cycle cooldown.

[Ircher]

Also, everyone should not visit Fire tonight.

^^^^^^

[Ircher]

@Ircher

If you roleblocked everyone who visited FA, why did you ask who they were?
When you first asked I thought you must have been some kind of Watcher, looking to catch people lying about their visits... but as a roleblocker, I don't see what you gain from knowing that.

Cuz of my twilight breadcrumb. Those who targeted you are semi-clear unless you are ascetic (and they also don't pay attn which again, is more indicative of town). On the other hand, it's not too much credit to Fire cuz as scum, he or his partner is likely to piece together what my ability is and having Fire execute the kill with that breadcrumb is silly.

[Ircher]

I am curious on why he voted me when he had blocked me and a kill still happened, I am not saying that 100% clears me, but it ensures that I didn't perform the kill so makes it less likely I am scum....

Simply because I breadcrumbed it, so mafia wouldn't have you perform the kill nor would they target you at risk of getting roleblocked or caught.

[Ircher]

I made it clear that I never visited fire.

I don't have a guilty. I was pretty sure Ircher was fake claiming one. I made it clear I never visited fire.

Kill ircher after this, I don't know what he was doing.

Kill Masq too if he quickhammers

Either Fire or me dies today.




And I don't plan on dying

That said pretty sure we're just waiting on people who haven't showed up

No I just got a sudden premonition that fire is mafia, you should sheep me

You call the last 2 quotes not a cop guilty soft-claim? I think you're backtracking now.

[Ircher]

During each cycle (day--twilight--night),

you can only execute 1 non-passive skill.

Mafia have a factional kill as well , which is

counting like other non-passive skills

with 1 cycle cooldown.

Stop misinterpreting and learn to comprehend; it clearly states that players may execute only 1 active ability each cycle, and the factional kill counts as an active ability and therefore cannot be used at the same time.

[Ircher]

Dunnstral already said he thought you had a guilty, and tried claiming it to take the kill for you. Which sounds both plausible, and extremely pro-town.

Either this is Town vs. Town or you're the scum in Town vs. Scum.

Why cant Dunn be scum? Why cant Dunn be the one who is backtracking and making stuff up as he goes?

Town tend to be more careless than scum.

[Ircher]

During each cycle (day--twilight--night),

you can only execute 1 non-passive skill.

Mafia have a factional kill as well , which is

counting like other non-passive skills

with 1 cycle cooldown.

Stop misinterpreting and learn to comprehend; it clearly states that players may execute only 1 active ability each cycle, and the factional kill counts as an active ability and therefore cannot be used at the same time.

No...

Mafia A gets to use an active ability
Mafia B gets to use an active ability

And they both share a FACTIONAL kill ability, independent of their own abilities

Do you not understand the meaning of factional kill? In every game I played, even though it's called a factional kill, that doesn't mean they all perform it at once; they designate a target to execute it. Therefore, the factional kill DOES count as an active ability that cannot be executed at the same time as another active ability performed by the same player.

Regarding ascetic/commuter type roles -- That would make my ability be useless to use as the ability is basically blocked by being untargetable.

[Ircher]

Okay I went to check if factional kill counts as the only ability that scum can do:

Mafia have a factional kill as well , which is counting like other non-passive skills with 1 cycle cooldown.

So its possible for that theory to be true and if someone tried to do some sort of check on me would fail due to Ircher blocking me.
I guess thats +1 to you guys for that theory.

That makes that impossible.

If I visited Fire to roleblock him (assuming Fire and I are scum), then I cannot perform the factional kill, as all active abilities are exclusive of each other. And Fire couldn't execute the kill cuz the kill would be blocked.

So no, occam's razor suggests that scum!Ircher + scum!Fire team is almost impossible.

Nope. First of all there are abilities that block or evade a roleblock. Second, there are abilities that make you able to perform 2 abilities in one night. So even IF scum can perform their factional kill while also performing an ability doesn't matter.

Ircher, you didn't answer this earlier but why did you target Fire?

Reasons. I thought Radical was survivor; I townread Vedith. Shiro and Yume are... just out there. And Fire was being fairly suspicious as it was.

Dunnstral already said he thought you had a guilty, and tried claiming it to take the kill for you. Which sounds both plausible, and extremely pro-town.

Either this is Town vs. Town or you're the scum in Town vs. Scum.

Why cant Dunn be scum? Why cant Dunn be the one who is backtracking and making stuff up as he goes?

Town tend to be more careless than scum.

So tell me again - why am I scum? Because I claimed a guilty and you say it would have been roleblocked?

You are avoiding my point which is you are implicitly implying it is impossible for you to be scum, which clearly isn't the case.

[Ircher]

TL;DR

Ircher is lying, trying to bus his teammate
FA is trying not to acknowledge this and trying so hard to ignore ircher for some god awful reason

SHIRO IS STILL VI, GOD DAMMIT SHIRO DUNN WAS BEING SARCASTIC WITH THE GUILTY CLAIM, love you though <3

P.S.

Why hasn't anyone noticed that Masquerade is only here for the L-1'ing and the Hammering?

This is sketchy imo.

I will take Dunn at his word for now, but I never did state I had a Cop guilty (and probably would've been more direct if I did...)

VOTE: Earth

The first problem I have is Earth is only here to hammer; the exact same thing Earth accuses Masq in this post. Calls Shiro a VI because..... Shiro conceded that I had a point? What else....

Knows

I am lying and bussing and

knows

that Fire is playing along and trying to ignore me? What the heck even! Occam's razor applies here which is Dunn misinterpreted what I said as a Cop guilty crumb and was trying to take the bullet, I sheeped Dunn cuz I thought he claimed a Cop guilty, and the entire encounter is TvT. Not that this is some crazy gambit being played by scum, etc.

This is just an attempt to cast suspicion everywhere possible.

[Ircher]

Not a misrep; regarding the Fire lynch, you were only here to hammer and nothing more. You are barely doing anything except sheeping the biggest wagon.

[Ircher]

Anyway, I invite all of you to lynch me.

[Ircher]

If only to show that you (all) can be ridiculous and wrong some times.

[Frozen Angel]

V/LA July 10-18 and July 25-29

8 days total vanishment is unacceptable. I'll expect one post at least each 4 days.

[Ircher]

Shiro was voting Dunn last VC.

[Ircher]

Screw this playerlist; all the players are currently impossible to read.....

[Ircher]

who do you scumread Fire?

[Ircher]

Why Dunn?

[Ircher]

I'm only asking cuz you haven't articulated your reasons there but have for Masq.

[Ircher]

I'm gonna sheep Fire on Masq before I go, but realize that I cannot really get a good read on anyone rn tbh.

VOTE: Masq

[Ircher]

VOTE: Radical

Will catch up when I have time.

[Frozen Angel]

Alright, so I'd really like to see Earth and Dunn's flips.

I townread them both. But my townread on Earth is... A strange one. Almost dependent on my townread on Dunnstral.
And that... Is suspicious.

Dunnstral is a real, proper townread. But his devotion, insistence that Earth is Town, when she's posted very little at all, let alone to help the Town...

These two are either Town together or Scum together. And there's only one way to find out which.

VOTE: thenewearth
My vote lies with the less active, and therefore less useful, of the two.

I will not be moving this vote.

I agree that this post is odd and more likely to come from scum fluffing.

@Mod - Apologies for the short notice. Still, I'm back and I won't be on any further trips that are so long anytime soon. Seeing as my name is still in the vc, I'm assuming I haven't been replaced yet.

Yes your not replaced yet <3 . please look at the new rule added to general rules of the game about long V/LA's.

[Ircher]

Maybe I'm just biased here, but based on all of the facts we have, I'm actually the most likely person to be Town here.

I know my logic is strange, and I wish I could express it better, but I am more confident in this than I have been in anything all game.

Just humor me today. You can lynch me tomorrow if you must.

Confident in what? You said tne and I are town together or maf together and you're townreading both of us but want to lynch tne anyway, it's dumb

[Ircher]

guys can we kick some activity into this game or?

Your slot has posted the least.

Instead of attacking me:

Someone give me a catchup. i'm going to read back but help a guy build some momentum

I am surprised nobody called you out on calling me conftown.

I considered it friendly banter (not to mention vla) and didnt think much of it.

[Ircher]

Ill give yoi rat today, you give me dunn tomorrow?

I'll accept that if you explain why you want Dunn.

[Ircher]

My vote was L-1 UNLESS Radical is strength-based.

[Ircher]

I would like to hear hiplop's Dunn case before any hammers occur. I would also appreciate an elaboration on why Hiplop's posts have been ringing as scum-aligned; however, I do see that a case is there and am willing to compromise there also.

[Ircher]

....What was that response for?

Now I like the Hiplop wagon better....

VOTE: Hiplop

[Ircher]

We're not lynching Radical today because of Hiplop.

I want a Hiplop lynch and I can do a Dunn lynch.

[Ircher]

Considering that Enfeeble was used during the day, and the kill is a night ability, Rat could still perform the nk.

[Ircher]

Has been awful.

[Ircher]

Yume did literally nothing and all you have done is claim to be confirmed town, state that you think Dunn is scum too, yet tells me to **** off when I ask for reasons and then hop on to me when you see there is resistance to the Rat wagon.

I'm going to ask you again : Where did your scumread of Dunn go and why did you scumread Dunn in the first place?

[Ircher]

Outline your case; you've quoted only 1 post that you said was a scumclaim.

[Ircher]

I'm here

Waiting for people to do things

I've given my stance

hiplop is probably scum for coasting

scumclaim

This is your case, Hiplop.

Ok, not the towniest post in the world, but how is this post scum-motivated rather than apathy motivated? The game reached a standstill with very split opinions as can be seen by the vcs, and while simply saying "I'm here" isn't necessarily town-motivated, given the game state, I wouldn't call it scum-motivated.

The only other thing you could have that is an issue with this post is Dunn's scumread on you. If that's the case, why are you omgusing Dunn? Your slot truly has done nothing so far and its obvious that you dont intend to change that. Yume did jack squat. All you've done so far is 1) Make friendly banter with Shiro (null) 2) Stall and complain about the game state while doing nothing to change it (Scum) 3) Claim you are confirmed town based on play (Scum) and 4) Attack anyone who isn't you, especially if they cast suspicion on you/vote you/etc. (Scum) -- You OMGUS'd Dunn and whenever he calls you scum, you state thats a scum claim. When I asked for your Dunn case, you simply tell me to **** off which is in itself an omgus attack. You are happy to hop to whatever wagon seems viable, yet when someone asks for your reasoning, you simply omgus / ignore them in return.

Explain to me how the above is town-motivated, much less confirms you as town.

[Ircher]

For those who would like to see the full iso of Yume/Hiplop:

Spoiler: Hiplop ISO

Hi. I am sorry, but I felt ill yesterday. Will talk more later.

Stalling and pretty much null.

I am here.

More stalling. Again, pretty much null.

Will catch scum after my nap

Useless post that is null.

Welcome, New Yume!

This is pretty rude. Hiplop is no yume.

I have awoken.

did we claim discards or

Weird question to ask; what made you think about discards at that moment? That said, benefit of the doubt that you haven't looked at the thread much yet so nullish.

im literally the worst dota hero wtf yume

Soft-claim perhaps; again, null.

Hi hiplop, that's quite the nap you are taking! I'm looking forward to reading your thoughts.

dude I can sleep for days.

Sorry, little bit of a delay. Probably tonight I'll catch the scum

Stalling. I guess null....

Hiiiii

shiro is conftown from this

Friendly banter/joking/playing, so pretty null.

has the survivor claimed?

Now asking about the survivor whos dead.... Posts are starting to become borderline fluff at this point (which is scum motivated)

guys can we kick some activity into this game or?

Says the one who is just stalling, asking stupid Qs, not reading the thread, and otherwise doing nothing useful. Scum trying to look townish by seeming to care about the game state, yet doing nothing to improve it.

guys can we kick some activity into this game or?

Your slot has posted the least.

Instead of attacking me:

Someone give me a catchup. i'm going to read back but help a guy build some momentum

More stalling, and having been called out for hypocrisy, attempts to cover it up and blame it on everyone else. It's a team effort, yes, but EVERYONE must play their parts. Your catchup for such a small thread should not require the support of others.

VOTE: dunnstral

OMGUS vote? (See below)

I'm here

Waiting for people to do things

I've given my stance

hiplop is probably scum for coasting

scumclaim

Flimsy case thats either an OMGUS or an attempt to use the game state to paint someone as scum. Null motivation for this particular post.

Ill give yoi rat today, you give me dunn tomorrow?

Leads one to believe it's Hiplop/Dunn with Hiplop trying to bus Dunn. Still, the post is kinda nullish.

VOTE: rat

Unexplained vote, but I imagine another OMGUS attack. The OMGUS doesnt feel like paranoia, but more like deliberate and desperate.

enfeeble?

Null.

also trust if i was scum you wouldnt catch me

AtE and meta usage. Not buying it.

fuck off ircher

Another OMGUS attack -- It is in response to when I said I want to hear the Dunn case. Ok, maybe I should've dbl-checked before asking, but still, you could at least just quote the case rather than resort to flaming and trying to avoid the subject completely. Very anti-town response, and I really don't see town playing this way at all; aka, this is scum trying to avoid being caught. Again, suggests Dunn/Hiplop team.

im literally confirmed town

Cannot prove the claim; I guess null tho?

im not gonna die dw

vote rat with me?

Why wont you die today? The wording strikes me as scum rather than town-motivated.

VOTE: rat

Trying to ressurect the wagon.

VOTE: irchrr

Why not

Compromise vote? Meh.

im literally confirmed town

How, exactly?

my play

Absolutely not. Nullish I guess.

dunnstral is scum. We get him tomorrow.

I'm a bad lynch today. I find scum or bus them. Either way I'll give you dead mafiosos

Good to know that if you flip scum (which you probably will), Dunn is likely your partner.

it was pretty self evident

Not really, and it's very weak too (for one to suggest a lynch there)

^ scumclaim

Another OMGUS attack.

[Ircher]

Associative case.

That said, the case for Hiplop is better and Hiplop should be lynched first.

[Ircher]

if u want to be called mean names in the dead thread by me go ahead lynch me

Please lynch this. Thanks.

[Ircher]

Also, at least my case *ahem* is more extensive than your case on Dunn.... So.....

Not to mention, you seem to keep flip-flopping your read there.....

[Ircher]

Why are you trying to paint me as his partner...?

Because he's pushing on me? Your case is flimsy too and I want you dead after hiplop

goodpoint.

He might be very well trying to connect us.



you know what? Yea, this is lining up lynches. Ircher is scum trying to set a dialogue or narrative of sorts for the following day. Tomorrow his plan would be "lynch dunnstral because connection to hiplop OR lynch dunnstral because hiplop thought he was scum"

either way, you're scum

BYE BYE IRCHER?

Somewhat fair, but you keep flip-flopping your stance on Dunn.

Why, and what factors resulted in the scumread in the first place? One post does not cut it; a case to lynch should be built on multiple posts for a player who isn't Yume (aka, they actually post occassionally rather than lurk 24/7)

[Ircher]

yeah the difference is im always right oops

Hahaha! Nice try.

[Ircher]

because I fucking love the scum alignmentf

and am undefeated at it this year idk

I kind of want to lynch you just because you are bragging about this, this is exactly something i have seen RC do to my face as scum.

"I am undefeatable as scum, you couldn't catch me if it was scum", then goes to win as scum because I thought those posts were braggy town.

Stop it, or I will shove a lynch down you.

Is Hiplop always like this? (And yes, this play does remind me of RC).

[Ircher]

Maybe we should no lynch considering we're at even numbers?

[Ircher]

I already told Shiro that in the clan pt.

[Ircher]

ircher should know that

scum want no lynch zz

1) It was a suggestion
2) It's not a scumtell to ask people to consider a certain course of action given a decent reason. Win chances are significantly lower in evens.

[Ircher]

Anyway, if you are going to lynch me: Lynch Hiplop and Radical

Also, why is everyone picking on Dire clan

[Ircher]

*Dunn, not Radical.

[Ircher]

I basically claimed already, but I am a strength hero (Earthshatter I think, too lazy to check) and I used Fissure N1 on Fire which rbs and reflexively rbs all players who target that player.

[Ircher]

Shiro/Snarky are prob. just tunneling me for practically no good reason ; I think it's town-motivated confirmation bias.

Hiplop is being as scummy as can be and I've already outlined why. Hiplop isn't trying to help town in any way and keeps changing reads for no reason besides OMGUS.

Fire is town prob. cuz he got RB'd and his behavior D2.

Radical is likely town cuz of Hiplop's shenanigans.

Dunn's interactions today were ok up until Hiplop came in. Dunn is scum if Hiplop is; else, I would give the benefit of the doubt.

Masq and Earth ought to contribute more.

[Ircher]

Also, Dunn, if you hammer without fully explaining yourself, I will take that as a scumclaim.

[Ircher]

Yeah, so.....

It seems we're at a standstill currently...

[Ircher]

Masq, Fire --> Reasons you dont support the Hiplop wagon?

[Ircher]

You're just stalling for time. Just waiting for the deadline to approach where there is no other option except my lynch.

Try doing something useful for once.

[Ircher]

Masq, Fire --> Reasons you dont support the Hiplop wagon?

Your reasons for wanting a hiplop lynch are basically because he hasn't done anything, yet he just joined the game. What kind of grand expectations do you have for that slot?

Like thats the crux of your argument. He hasn't done much, which is weak.

If hiplop is scum, id much rather lynch him tomorrow instead of today because "he isn't doing anything!".

Like you want two snarky lynches in a row?

No, its he's done nothing and he thinks that he should be allowed to get away with doing nothing.

[Ircher]

guys can we kick some activity into this game or?

guys can we kick some activity into this game or?

Your slot has posted the least.

Instead of attacking me:

Someone give me a catchup. i'm going to read back but help a guy build some momentum

im literally confirmed town

im literally confirmed town

How, exactly?

my play

........Not a townie mindset; instead of trying to contribute something, Hiplop is trying to find reasons to coast by while barely doing anything.

[Ircher]

Also, 1 last thing @Fire:

My "grand" expectations for Hiplop is to actually play the game and explain some of his reads rather than trying to bandwagon on the largest or most viable wagon at the time.

[Ircher]

I understand that, but if you didn't notice by Hiplop's "confirmed town by play" comment, it's quite obvious that Hiplop thinks doing nothing should give him a free pass for some reason..... What makes him so special that allows him to do absolutely nothing useful? (Bandwagoning, OMGUS, and otherwise randomly pointing fingers is by no means useful; it shows scum intent versus town intent when used so much as it is being used right now).

Pedit: At least 1 scum is probably in Dunn/Hiplop imo. If not both, the other is probably in Masq/Earth imo.

Pedit2: He did give an explanation... Even if I do disagree with it....

[Ircher]

Shiro, as I said earlier, is probably guilty of confirmation bias. Radical would be my 5th choice, but Hiplop's play has made me decide he's prob. town. Fire is showing a town mindset right now imo, so he's prob. town.

[Ircher]

Why are you tunneled onto me, Ircher?

Cuz your play is suspicious.

[Ircher]

If Hiplop is town, you can just ignore my reads and lynch me.

If Hiplop is scum, then I think I'm probably on the right track.

[Ircher]

As to choosing strength -- It was practically the only hero choice I got that wasn't practically all vote manipulation abilities. Plus, I tend to get mislynched.... A lot, so being loved helps with that.

[Ircher]

Shiro, Masq, and Earth need to come in here and explain their other reads.

I fear there isn't enough support for another wagon besides me.

[Ircher]

(I might self-hammer if thats the case for a variety of reasons: 1) To keep this game moving; too much of D2 has been spent at a very split gamestate that isn't changing. Apathy is slowly starting to creep into this game; in fact, it probably has. 2) My lynch is more beneficial than no lynch cuz pf the info)

That said, I prob. won't hammer myself if I think there's a decent chance I won't be lynched, but to determine that, I must guage interest in other wagons, primarily Hiplop and Dunn, and for that, I need Shiro to stop tunnelling, and Masq/Earth to start giving out and explaining reads.

[Ircher]

Note: hiplop put Ircher into my hammer range

Actually beyond that: he voted him into a place where if he wasn't a strength hero he'd be dead by now

Shiro, would you consider voting hiplop?

ircher is prob just weaktown

Then why were you trying to lynch him?

These ^

Anyway, we're going to need 1 of {Shiro, Masq, Earth} to vote elsewhere if we are going to lynch Hiplop or Dunn. Personally, I prefer the Hiplop lynch.

[Ircher]

Reads @Earth?

[Ircher]

Join Hiplop pls.

[Ircher]

Unless there is particular reason why not....

[Ircher]

Thats L-1 btw

[Ircher]

I will do a Dunn wagon, but I'm not going to dismantle a viable wagon this close to deadline unless I am guaranteed enough support on the other wagon.

[Ircher]

12h; we should decide now.

[Ircher]

Fire? Shiro? Masq?

[Ircher]

If Hiplop is town, then by all means, you may lynch me and proceed to MyLo.

[Ircher]

???

What do you mean @Rat?

[Ircher]

I do wish we had a protect role right now that's town

I can use fissure again tonight.

I'm tempted to say we do no lynch and see if we can gain more info rather than lynch wrong.

Also, I believe I'm the only one of Dire remaining.......

[Ircher]

V/LA 7/25 to 7/29; I will try my best to post at least once each day.

noted! ~FA

[Ircher]

This wait seems scum motivated, but we will wait and see.....

I would like to note that Dunn is a common scumread shared by the majority of the game, including the recently deceased Hiplop.

[Ircher]

No, my point is you are universally scumread likely because you are scum.

[Ircher]

No I'm trying to work out who Ircher's buddy

is because that vote on Radical makes me doubt my scumread there. And I've been fooled by scum before; the person I was never going to lynch on game ended up being scum (Nahdia). You are that person to me this game, I want to make absolutely damn sure I'm right about you.

How do you know, for a fact, I am scum? I must point out that such black and white thinking is more scum-motivated than town-motivated, and I don't see this as confirmation bias.

[Ircher]

Masq/Dunn probably.

But we should no lynch as no one is confirmed or close to it right now.

[Ircher]

VOTE: No Lynch

[Ircher]

poor dires they really were suspicious of each other even in their full clear pt.

I really feel bad for them

I did lose access to that thread (prob. when my initial vla begun), but since nothing useful really happened there, I just ignored it.