Newbie 1815: Prisons [Endgame]

[skitter30]

Hi everyone! I replaced in overnight! I will do things in a few hours!

[skitter30]

skitters i need u to be town because ur a great town.

Aw, thanks!

That being said, this post kinda feels like you're trying to pocket/buddy me. (I'm still not sure what the difference is between those two phrases tbh).

After skimming your ISO (I'll do an in-depth catch up soon), I think you might actually be scum here? Like, I'm just not seeing town!Paul.

That might be because we didn't interact in real time though, so I don't want to make this a firm scumread until we actually like talk with each other; I'm making more of a general observation atm.

So, for now:

FOS: Paul

[skitter30]

(Apologies for walling as I catchup)

Madtatters:
32 - kinda gross tbh. That being said, the explanation in 159 seems like genuine frustrated newb!town who doesn't understand why she's being called out for that post.
48 - Where are you getting your reads from?
73 - I have no idea what you mean by this.
148 - Yeah, I think this is town.
160 - Talk about this later
212 - Town again.
292 - Genuine frustration here.


Osuka:
39 - Dislike this post. Icibalus (who is this now?) was trying to get the game out of RVS, and with this post, you moved the game backwards into shitposting and RVS.
122 - not sure why you think madtatters is so scummy
268 - Better reaction than Paul, who seems to be trying to set up a mislycnh and chain Aphix to the flip.
276 - Genuinely frustrated at the throw. If Osuka was scum, I don't think he'd be *this* frustrated with someone he knows is a gamethrowing townie - after all, a gamethrowing townie certainly helps his wincon.

NTRP:
52 - Were you scumreading osaka here?
72 - And why are you voting Jae here? I don't think they did anything AI up until that point
121 - Not sure why you think madtatters is so scummy
237 - I don't like this. Hard for me to say why exactly, but this post is pinging me.
262 - Pinging me again. Feels like you're taking advantage of a troll comment to push through a mislynch, tbh. You're *way* too confident that MWAP is flipping scum.
263 - Yes, this is incredibly reachy.
264, 266 - Same as 262. Unlike Osuka, I see no genuine frustration here.


Icibalus/Aphix:
147 (Icibalus) - Ick. She clearly hit submit after quoting a post but before typing her thoughts (like see the next post ffs). This is an awful reason to vote her. It actually reminds me fairly strongly of this vote that scum placed on someone for completely BS reasons that were not AI at all.
234 (Aphix) - I guess you're not familiar with the BP strat that was all the rage a few months back lol. I dunno why you think Jae is scum; I still don't really see anything AI from Jae at this point.
239 - Townpoints for pushing DP for his weird Paul read.
265 - Thank you for calling Paul out on that. More townpoints.

DP:
66 - Uh what? Osaka's posts have all been shitposting. He hasn't really offered an opinion on anything up until this point, so it's like impossible for icibalus to be mimicking him.
109 - Ick. Why are you focusing so much on Icibalus' sheep joke vote for the mod. It was clearly a joke vote, and he was playing around. Why is it so much worse that Icibalus sheeped the mod RVS vote than the fact that osaka made one in the first place? And if you have a problem with shitposting, why are you not calling Paul out for it? The BP strat was a thing a few months ago, and it happened in pretty much every game. I don't think the IC talking about it was AI.
212 - I don't get the townread on Jae for things that are fundamentally NAI. Pushing the BP strat is NAI, and when it was a fad, lots of ICs pushed it, regardless of alignment. Paul told you this, so I'm not sure why you're still harping on this? Why aren't you pushing Paul?
284 - I feel the same way about your reaction as I do about Paul's above. You don't actually seem frustrated about what's going on here, but rather seem to be trying to push through a mislynch.

Ciara:
217 - I don't see Icibalus buddying tatters here tbh. And he didn't jump ship off of Tatters? I don't get what you're saying about him like at all.
254 - I realized here that you're pushing MWAP, but aren't really talking about anyone else. Kinda seems like low hanging fruit, going after her at this point. Like, you're going for an easy wagon and aren't trying to sort anyone else.
255 - And you're calling people out on not doing anything when you haven't really done anything either besides tunneling on MWAP.

I'm going to skip Man With A Plan cuz they got lynched. It looks like they were a troll or something, since they've been banned, so I don't think their 'scumslip' really meant anything tbh.

I also realized that I didn't do Jae, but I have like no thoughts on like anything that they said. They're just completely null.

Regarding the setup: I kinda dislike breaking the setup in newbie games. Emphasis should be on learning how to scumhunt, instead of mechanically confirming people. But, since my predecessor claimed already, I

hardclaim 1-shot BP

.

Reads:
Madtatters,
Icibalus/Aphix, osuka
jae ----- null. I dislike the fact that I have no read on jae either way.
ciara
DP
Paul

[skitter30]

awwww. ur wrong already.

This is pinging me a lot. Hard to find the words for it though. It's kinda . . . cocky? False bravado maybe? Patronizing? Like you're telling me I'm wrong without showing me why I'm wrong.

[skitter30]

Okay, so is town paul always this clueless regarding paying attention with what has happened? Because I don't see any sort of actual town making that push.

No, he isn't. I'm actually reasonably certain that this is scum!Paul. And you explained quite clearly why you were voting MWAP, so I'm not sure where he's going with this.

VOTE: Paul

[skitter30]

I'm not familiar with Paul's play so can't comment as to whether or not this is usual town/scum play. I'll have a look at some of his past games later if I have time.

We played both of our newbies together. In 1787, I was scum, and he was painfully obvious newbtown. Still not sure why he got lynched there tbh. In 1797, we were both town, and he was my top townread for most of the game. He did something anti-town in the beginning of the game, and got tunneled for it repeatedly. I spent a ridiculous amount of time talking people out of that tunnel like four times, which led him to become universally townread. I know his towngame. This isn't it.

meta = shit

my meta changes based off players. with this game i'll prob be more active than normal and more aggressive than normal but really depends on how skitters plays.

essentially if there are a lot of strong players i stay in the back and mostly sheep but i get more aggressive if there arent many strong players. i prefer the former over the latter as it ends better.

Paul, you and I both know that I know your meta. I correctly read you in Space based on meta even though I never had to read you before. I'm not scumreading you for your aggressiveness. I'm scumreading you because your tone is off and you're not interacting with me the way town!Paul does. Town!Paul is *very* paranoid of me. Town!Paul sheeps me despite that. Town!Paul does not insta-scumread me after that wallpost.

There's no paranoia here. Instead, you're attempting to buddy me and to discredit what I'm saying (308, 318, 333, 336). Like, you admitted I'm basically conf!town. You admitted I'm good as town, and I know you value the input of town!me. You're just handwaving away everything I say, which is not a thing town!Paul ever does, even when I'm not basically conf!town.

ya if not for the bp claim id sr the slot.

Yeah, I'm calling BS on this. Why?

This isn't town!Paul. I am very happy with my vote.

[skitter30]

I know that Skitter is almost certainly conftow but your reads and reasoning are way off

Yeah, I know I can't really read you based off of meta (Um, sorry about that). But I've explained exactly why I don't like your posts. If you think I'm wrong, tell me why so we can talk about it.

[skitter30]

lol

two and a half all with different playstyles and u know my meta

why would i be paranoid? ur predecessor claimed bp.

oh god skitters start making sense plz

not to mention why do u think i cant tell ur meta based off our time toegther. cant talk about ongoing games but im pretty sure i could tell.

id sr u because ur reads are C. R. A. P.

atleast on me and jae (ya ik u have no read u should imo)

also interacting with u. im not being as nice *shrug* . and i dont sr u i think ur reads are bad (that is their reasoning) and i would had ur slot not claimed bp.

1. I'm very, very, very good with meta for people that I've correctly read as either alignment before. Yes, I know your meta, and I know your towngame. This isn't it.

2. I never said you couldn't meta read me, so you saying 'why do u think i cant tell ur meta based off our time toegther' is a misrep. The very fact that you'd scumread me here when I'm all but conf!town indicates that you can't read me. Also, the fact that you think my reads are bad is not a valid reason to scumread me (if I weren't the sole BP claim and all that jazz) tbh.

i hardwaved because the stuff on me is baaaaad and gut based and the other bit is like 2/3 still rvs

like what the fuxk u want me to respond to. oh ur gut thinks im off? sorry? im town. like there isnt anything to say there. i responded to rest as well.

It isn't bad and gutbased. I explained exactly why I'm scumreading you here, including differences in meta. And the most interesting thing that I called you out on - strange reaction to the MWAP 'scumslip' - you failed to address.

[skitter30]

if i was pushing i might ask osuka to vote. im just tryna force u to explain ur thoughts. i hoped my vote would pressure u. i mean rn i think ur vote on MWAP was the crappiest with madtatters being a close second. DP's wasnt good but its a far third.

This isn't a valid reason for you to push people after you said

everyones next post should include
VOTE: MWAP

[skitter30]

Jae didn't want to be involved in the lynch as it might bring attention to his slot. He's done everything to avoid attention or being involved with anything or making a splash. Whoever replaced in and has a null read on Jae ... That's exactly why I think jae is scum.

Basically this. Like, when I read through the game, there's like nothing there from Jae. Everything is very . . . flat. And safe. And bland. I don't see anything to townread. I don't anything that decent scum would be incapable of faking. Like, I can't point to anything specifically wrong with their posts, but there isn't anything particularly good about them either. I just have no opinion. And the fact that I don't have an opinion after a full day's worth of content is concerning.

[skitter30]

incoming skitters wallpost

<3

(Sorry for the incoming!)

i never said i sred u. i said i would IF u hadnt claimed bp. i said ur play was scummy not that u were scum. gawd skitters

1. ur maybe good with others but ur dead wrong here. my meta changes. if ur areogant enough to tell me what my meta is off two games where i played differently in both odk what to tell u.

2. already addressed above.

3. it is bcuz our votes were different. did u read or are u just tryna discredit me because i said ur reads are bad. if u need me to explain again: i dont like aphix's vote because a page earlier he seemed firmly against an MWAP lynch and then boom with no change in MWAP's behavior and nothing that imo couldve changed his mind he votes him. heck he even said he wouldnt vote MWAP and one page later he does and i dont get why.

I can describe my thoughts about madtatters. Jae already said a bit about dp's vote and i kinda agree. but looking back idk. tbh its kinda wierd jae didnt say the same thing to me bcuz mine was hella similar. so dp's vote isnt too bad rn.

madtatters quoted a pist by osuka that "changed" his mind but it didnt really add up to me based off the content of osuka's post. i'll get into ot more when im done with hw.

@aphix answer me im not going away.

pedit: i'll agree to disagree. im glad u find it concerning atleast. thats something we can both kinda agree on.

1. I never said you scumread me. I'm all but confirmed town, and you acknowledge that. That means that if you'd scumread my slot independently of that, you'd be reading it wrong, since you agree that I'm basically town here for mechanical reasons. And you never explained why my play is scummy. You're calling it scummy, but you're not backing it up. You're not even going with the old 'I get paranoid of skitter because I think her scumgame is good'.

2. I'm not being arrogant. I just know precisely what town!me is or isn't good at. Like, I'm bad with AtE and I get super paranoid that my townreads are pocketing me. And I'm very good with meta reads on someone I've correctly read before. You know this. I literally talked you out of getting mislynched like three times in 1797 for meta reasons. Your argument that I can't meta you is unfounded.

3. You literally said that everyone should be voting MWAP. You don't get to complain that their votes are bad after you asked them to vote that way.

4. Please explain your thoughts about madtatters.

5. Please explain your p-edit. How can you 'agree to disagree with me' about Jae but then agree with me that I find Jae's posting concerning? You're townreading them. Why do you think they're concerning?

the thing was with those votes it wasnt immediate. it felt like town tryna distance from wagon a lot because of the way they voted and "reasons". like MWAP was really against and i dont get why he changed. like he had support in that regard with jae. madtatters i just dont follow the thought process behind him not commenting on the scummy part to seeing osuka's pist and agreeing with it -and voting. like it just didnt add up the way he went from ignoring to sure.

Aphix's change literally came four hours after his initial post on the subject. It wasn't like he spent days hemming and hawing about his opinion. MWAP basically gamethrew in that initial post as either alignment, and I think I'd have voted them there for that. It was trolly and useless. If scum, she ruined the game for her partner. If town, she made town collectively waste a lynch, which is town's greatest resource. You yourself advocated for a policy lynch on them.

After the throw, MWAP turned toxic and started picking fights with people and personally insulting them. They needed to go. Aphix acknowledged that and lynched them for it. That's what changed.

[skitter30]

I would like Aphix to explain what he meant by 'scumslip' as well, but I'm not voting him.

Even ignoring the fact that he's my second strongest townread, the fact that the 5 of you are pushing him right now is quite alarming.

Unless you want to argue that the scumteam is Aphix/Madtatters (it isn't. If you want to make this argument, you need to show me why you think this), at least one scum just expressed interest in pushing him, assuming you believe I'm basically conf!town, which pretty much all of you said you did.

If Aphix is scum, they're trying to distance. I don't think he's done anything so objectively scummy that his partner needs to get him lynched right here, right now. I don't think there's strong enough motivation for scum!Aphix's partner to distance and/or bus him atm. Scum!Aphix's partner should be pushing the Paul counterwagon right now, not pushing Aphix. If Aphix isn't scum, two scum are pushing him right now and are trying to manufacture a counterwagon.

I don't believe scum!Aphix gets that many votes that fast, or experiences a push this strong based on that post. He's Paul's counterwagon.

[skitter30]

I hadn't had coffee yet when I wrote my last post, so I don't think I explained myself that well, and I also missed a possibility, so I'm going to go through that again. The conclusion's the same though.

Five people either voted Aphix (Paul, DP, Ciara) expressed an interest in pushing him (Osuka), or thinks Aphix's scumslip post is BS, and is entertaining the idea that scum!Aphix might be pushing this (Jae).

That means that three people are not pushing Aphix right now: Me, Madtatters, and Aphix himself.

I'm basically conf!town, so I can't be partners with anyone, and I think everyone agrees to this.

Let's look at the possibilities of the alignments of Madtatters/Aphix:

1. Madtatters and Aphix are both scum. I'm independently townreading both of them. I don't think there's anything in their dual ISOs to support this team. If I'm wrong about this, you need to show me why.

2. town!Madtatters and scum!Aphix. This is the possibility I discussed above, so I'm just going to copy-paste: If Aphix is scum, they're trying to distance. I don't think he's done anything so objectively scummy that his partner needs to get him lynched right here, right now. I don't think there's strong enough motivation for scum!Aphix's partner to distance and/or bus him atm. Scum!Aphix's partner should be pushing the Paul counterwagon right now, not pushing Aphix.

3. scum!Madtatters and town!Aphix. This is the possibility I missed by mistake. There's one scum amongst the five of you.

4. Town!madtatters and town!Aphix. This means that two scum are pushing him right now and are trying to manufacture a counterwagon.

Unless you want to argue that we live in the first universe, from my POV (and the rest of you too since I'm mechanically basically confirmed), this push on Aphix is at least partially scum motivated and I will have no part in it. I don't think the current gamestate makes sense in universe 2 either, for what it's worth.

[skitter30]

Oh ffs.

That's L-1. Jae, Osuka, if either of you hammer, I'm taking it as a scumclaim, not that I'm going to be around tomorrow to get make sure you get lynched for it.

Literally *everyone* besides myself and Aphix are pushing him or voting right now.

The only way this push can be town-motivated is if me and aphix are scumpartners.

I'm all but mechnically confirmed town, and I don't think anyone is disputing that. I LITERALLY CAN'T BE SCUM WITH APHIX.

This is scum motivated.

This wagon is bad. This push is bad. All townies on it should feel bad.

[skitter30]

Also, no one unvote me. I want plenty of time to see who comes in and hammers early. It might actually give you a chance to win this game.

If they're both on you already, that might not happen lol.

[skitter30]

I'm actually more tempted to do it now that you threatened to take it badly, just to see how full of shit you are just because you subbed into a role that's confirmed town

It doesn't really matter how I take it, cuz I'm going to be dead.

Tatters gains town points for the display of coherence and cohesion in 380-382

Spoiler:

Aphix, being Icibalus's replacement, is scum to me. Icibalus voted for me for about three rl days until he switched out with Aphix. Aphix then, not even being in the game for maybe two or three rl days, voted for me until then switching over to MWAP.

OMGUS. This isn't a valid reason to scumread the slot. Her stated reason for scumreading her is that the slot voted for her. That's it.

During D1, Osuka was probably my biggest scum read,

No reason given for why she scumread you.

but I've backed off because 1.) I was suspecting Icibalus as scum with Ciara (reasons now void), but when my count-to-lynch kept shrinking, I started to suspect Osuka, singularly accusing him as scum, and even voting.

She backed off of you because she's doing pre-flip associatives that she didn't explain. She's voting Aphix and apparently has Ciara in her null pool but they aren't scum together because . . . she doesn't say. If they aren't scum together, why isn't Ciara in her townpool? She literally forgot about her. If they are scum together, why are those reasons now void?

She doesn't explain how her wagon relates to you being scum.

So since Aphix replaces Icibalus, I'm seeing them as scum.

Again, her stated reason for scumreading Aphix is the fact that Icibalus voted her early in day1, and Aphix kept the vote on her.

I would say definite town for me are NTRP, Osuka, and Skitter. That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, and Aphix.

With JaeReed, Ciara and DoctorPepper, I have mixed feelings, causing me to be in the middle of the spectrum. JaeReed has me the most conflicted because I hope that they're town. It's hard to explain but I feel like if JaeReed was scum, they'd do a good job in turning the town against each other for a win. And we don't need that right now. For now, I'm just going to wait and see on JaeReed, Ciara, and DoctorPepper.

Correction: "That leaves, for me, DoctorPepper, JaeReed, CIARA, and Aphix

She's voting with people she at best nullreads. Besides for Aphix himself, literally everyone she doesn't think is town is voting or pushing him. That's a huge red flag, both for her that the wagon might be sketchy, and also for the rest of us when trying to sort her.

Also voting NTRP for a mislynch is BS. MWAP was trolling and doing a bunch of stuff, trying to make us think he was scum. Scum or not, he was a toxic player that needed to be gone anyway. Just read MWAP's posts. You'll see what I'm talking about. That vote is total bullshit. Even more reason for me to suspect Aphix.

"Scumslip" give me a break.

She literally explained why Paul's push on Aphix is stupid. Aphix voted for MWAP cuz she was toxic and needed to go. Paul is pushing Aphix for this vote. It's quite apparent that she understands and agrees with Aphix's vote on MWAP . . . and yet is supporting Paul in this push and voting Aphix.

and if you think that at some point in this wagon aphix's partner tried to distance, then you have to consider the possibility of said distancing attempt happening at a bus stop

That still means there's scum on the wagon/push, regardless of Aphix's alignment.

So, let's talk about this, assuming me and Tatters are town.

Let's assume Aphix is scum (scenario 4). His partner must be within {Tatters, Paul, you, DP, Jae, and Ciara}. Who do you think is distancing from him or bussing him here? Someone has to be. Who is it?

Now let's do the other one. Me and Aphix are both town (scenario 2). There must be two scum within {Tatters, Paul, you, DP, Jae, and Ciara}. Who do you think they are?

[skitter30]

@Skitter I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to read your posts but from what I can glean it feels like you're assuming that scum wouldn't bus here. Can you expand on why you think that, please?

Why would scum be bussing here? There's a perfectly viable counterwagon. Why would they not hop onto that? He hasn't done anything to warrant being wagoned that quickly. It's not like scum!Aphix's partner absolutely needs to distance from some awful team-incriminating slip he made or something. I see literally no reason for them to bus him here if they can just hop onto the counterwagon I'm pushing. What do they gain from it? They're losing one half of a two-member team for . . . what exactly?

lack of counterwagon, speed of a wagon, etc dont make it bad

bad reasoning makes a bad wagon imo. aphix coulda dodged this shit had he answered first time i asked but now its l-1 and has yet to answer.

It's a bad wagon/push because scum is guaranteed to be on it. He answered you literally seven posts before this one, so that isn't a true statement. And again, it's dead obvious why he voted her. She was turned toxic in between his two votes, so he wanted to remove her from the game. You asked everyone to vote her. I really don't get why Aphix's vote in particular is getting singled out for being bad.

[skitter30]

K, I'm going to go back to why I think Paul is scum, but I'm going to drop the meta (Paul, if you're interested, I'll talk to you about it after the game or once we're both dead). I'll do it based off of things from this game:

1. He's attempting to buddy me and discredit me. Immediately after he says he thinks I'm great at town and acknowledges that I subbed into a conf!town slot, he's trying to handwave away everything I say instead of considering my opinions.

2. His reaction to MWAP's scumslip was bad and awkward and seemed like scum trying to force through a mislynch. I pointed this out like twice and he's ignored it.

3. After asking for votes on MWAP, he's scumreading Aphix for voting MWAP. This doesn't even make sense.It's dead obvious Aphix voted for her cuz she was a toxic troll. I don't understand why this is scummy or why Aphix in particular is getting flak for it.

4. His tone is weird. I'm getting a lot of false bravado and fake outrage and AtE.

5. The wagon thing.

[skitter30]

VOTE: aphix
this is l-1 again


I don't want the wagon on paul to pick up again because i think he's town

Please reconsider him tomorrow after he undoubtedly hammers Aphix.

[skitter30]

I know people get annoyed when I wall, so I'll spoiler this. It's more of my case against Paul, so I'd appreciate it if people actually read it.

Spoiler: @Paul

Can we stop with the associative tells until we actually lynch scum? Associative tells without a redflip hinge on assumptions we have very limited information on

^^^*^

if i missed it i'll go back and look. ur being voted bcuz u dodged an easy ass question multiple times. i dont see why town ever does that.

im not pushing aphix for voting, it was how he did so that i dont understand.

im leaning newbtown on tatters because i see his logic common to newer ppl. that said its still bad logic behind reads.

What don't you understand about his vote? It was an easy ass question with an obvious answer. Why are you asking him to justify it and not anyone else? He avoided it cuz it had a very obvious answer. Like, what were you looking for him to say already?

oh and i need to explain why right? actually dunno what to say to mwap comment. i thought he legit scumslipped and a comment like that should never really be left alone. like any kind of comment like that from scum or town should be lynched. i didnt see any town motivation for it so i pushed for a wagon there

it

is

poor form to question real life reasons when it comes to the game, but your activity is nonetheless shit, you should've left vla if you knew you weren't gonna have access and you haven't produced any content at all yet, not to mention the last post in which you gamethrew hard (regardless of alignment)

i'd say at least one of those is worst form than questioning rl

Genuinely frustrated. Scum does not get frustrated at a townie gamethrowing. Scum might get frustrated at a partner throwing, but MWAP flipped town, so we don't live in that universe. He's frustrated. Townpoints.

Damn. My wifi is back, finally. It's still day? Thought we'd be going night by now so I can at least get a kill (if my teammate agrees of course).

is this fucking serious?

someone fucking vote this. i swear to god

Welp, this game is going to be another shit show, and that right there is a good indicator I'm not going to be playing with MWAP again.

scumclaim 2? idk maybe its reachy but felt like a thing partner would say bcuz idk why town really posts this

*shrug*

everyones next post should include
VOTE: MWAP

You don't seem geninely frustrated in 262. More of that fake outrage I mentioned before. Like it's over the top and fake. You then took an incredibly reachy oppurtunity to set up the next mislynch. That was not in any way a scumclaim. I honestly don't see how your comment about Aphix making a scumclaim is any different than Aphix's comment about you making a scumslip. Literally no one called you out on this though besides Aphix, but Aphix is getting wagoned for the scumslip comment.

264 sounds like you're trying to force through a mislynch. You don't seem that frustrated about her, and you're asking for votes to be piled on her.

holy fuck im handwaving all the "pinging" me shit.

awwww. ur wrong already.

You started discrediting me here, and I hadn't said anything pinged me yet. In fact, the first thing that pinged me was that line.

i mean when u see scum ur supposed to rally town to lynch em right? like as far as ik thats good play...

You were advocating a policy-lynch.

also bcuz i think ive been a dick sorry skitters. i get rlly annoyed when ppl say "this is pinging me" multiple timesz. like once or twice i find ok but after that it gets annoying when its all from ione person. so i got a bit annoyed and was probably a dick so sawry.

Nah, you're fine. I think all of it AtE anyway lol, but it isn't working on me this time. Sorry for being aggressive! Also, I've explained what I dislike beyond 'pings', and I think I only said it like twice after the catchup lol.

[skitter30]

in an universe where aphix flips town i'm willing to reconsider paul yes

you've made a good case but i'm confident that aphix will flip scum and i'm stubborn enough that i'd take my reads over yours any day. I hope i'm not fucking up here but if I am i'm sorry

If you're town, don't worry about it too much lol; we're playing a game. I think you're wrong, and you think I'm wrong, and we're all good

If you're scum, you're doing exactly what you should be doing lol.

I'm not deluded enough to think that a Paul lynch is likely today, but I'm going to keep pushing it for tomorrow after we get the flips. That being said, I don't think I'm moving to any other wagon either. I'm certainly not moving to Aphix, because I townread him and I think the push/wagon on him is bad. I might be convinced to move to Jae or Ciara or

maybe

DP, but that's probably it.

[skitter30]

Also, I realized I forgot to mention:

@Ali/everyone: I'm always v/la on Shabbat and Jewish holidays

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[skitter30]

Also, I realized I forgot to mention:

@Ali/everyone: I'm always v/la on Shabbat and Jewish holidays

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I will do my best!

[skitter30]

everyones next post should include
VOTE: MWAP

why the fuck does he flip town? do u think he intentionally being a little shit to get mislynched?

yes he got angry but content wise he provided nothing and was keeping with useless townie.

Scumslip.

Welp, this game is going to be another shit show, and that right there is a good indicator I'm not going to be playing with MWAP again.

scumclaim 2? idk maybe its reachy but felt like a thing partner would say bcuz idk why town really posts this

*shrug*

Can we talk about these two comments? How are they different from each other? Why is Aphix getting wagoned for saying Paul scumslipped, but no one besides Aphix called out Paul for saying that Aphix scumclaimed?

[skitter30]

it's a package

everyone in this game without exception has posted bullshit at one point or another. I'm not advocating for an aphix lynch because of 365; in fact, i think that's not super weird or anything - I just called it out because it's just kinda forced since the push doesn't really make a lot of sense

OK, why are you advocating for an aphix lynch?

[skitter30]

Skitters, what I don't get is why you are defending Aphix so hard. What is about his posts that stands out to you as being obviously town? I'm just not seeing it and a practically conftown defending someone who isn't so hard feels weird to me.
Agree with DP about madtatters last post.

Tbh, I feel like I'm playing a totally different game from the rest of you lol, cuz for the life of me, I don't see how anyone is townreading Paul. I am going to do my best to break out of my Paul tunnel though and try to reevaluate both of them, cuz the fact that all of you are so sold on scum!aphix is maybe a signal that I'm missing something.

Can we at least agree that Paul and Aphix aren't scum together?

@Paul, @Aphix: Can both of you talk to me about your reads? And explain why you're scumreading the other one?

UNVOTE: For now.

[skitter30]

Seeing as Aphix only has 1 to lynch, I'm not really as eager to have them lynched. For now, I just want to see if there are any other players jumping out at me as scum (particularly JaeReed, DP, and Ciara). Maybe I'll vote for Aphix in the future, but I want to see if there are any more people who are jumping out to me as scum, maybe even my townreads. I'd rather kill scum correctly to avoid a mislynch, than go into Night 2 because we lynched town about a week into D2 and risk town getting killed by scum in the night.

Just for now
UNVOTE:

Your initial vote on Aphix put him at L-1, so why is the fact that he was at L-1 at the time of this post concerning enough to you that you decided to unvote? What happened in between your initial vote and this unovte?

Who is your top scumread right now, and why? Who is your top townread right now, and why? (Don't answer with me lol).

[skitter30]

swconded^^

tbh skitters i only think ur read of me is bad. i didnt read the rest.

also i might respond to the wall. i might ignore it too. i'll try to get to it though. no promises because i gotta prep for dar ACT this weekend

id sr u because ur reads are C. R. A. P.

Which is it? Are many of my reads bad, or just my read of you? And if many of my reads are bad, which are they and why? IE what are your reads and how do they differ from my own?

Also, good luck with the ACT!

[skitter30]

Aphix was harping on something that wasn't a scumslip and was trying his damndest to convince everyone it was

Where did this happen?

[skitter30]

Tatters wants to distance from a. Town lunch.

Osuka, I can assure you my wagon and everything else this day has done more for town then anything or anyone else this game.

But your SOOo right ... Town in should just so fight their wagon tooth and nail, because it's totally like they are so close to losing if they get lynched..... *eyeroll*

Huh. So osuka thinks I'm scummy because I should be defending myself. Fuck off. I don't need to defend myself at all. There isn't shit to defend myself against. And if there was. Still not going to do it. That's not my job.

Dude, I went out on a limb for you, and posts like these aren't exactly overwhelming me with your towniness. They're all actually giving me very bad vibes.

I was trying to derail your wagon, so work with me here. Why is Paul scum? Who else is scum? Why are you not scum?

[skitter30]

i only read ur read of me and saw u didnt have a read of jae. so only didnt like those two

If you hadn't even fully read my posts, what would the following have been based on?

ya if not for the bp claim id sr the slot.

I'm going to point out that scumreading me because I scumread you is blatant OMGUS, and I don't think that saying I think Jae is a nullread is a valid reason to scumread me either.

[skitter30]

skitters acting normal good.

tatters is worrying me rn cuz idk if he is newbtwon anymore. i think he might be just following his trs tho and my unvote triggered his.

my sr was bcuz i didnt get his change of mind on mwap (now i doooo). then he just kept saying it was obvious when i didnt fucking see it so i thought he was avoiding my question. i think he is tunnelling me a bit, but he is like null for me rn. i remember liking his content b4 mwap's "slip", but ici was really bad. i need to reread this slot.

osuka is town for me. i generally agree with thwir content, and this doesnt remind me of the little bit of his scumgame so that helps.

jae is like leantown. where did he go is my real question rn.

ur conftown obviously.

dp is like gut scum for me whixh i hate bcuz i hate gutreads. need to reread this slot too bcuz something feels off but i cant quite verbalize it. may just be the shorter posts bcuz ik i tend to tr walls.

think thats everyone.

also thabks! back to stufying!...yay?! *cries*

Why is Jae leantown? If DP is gut scum, why aren't you pushing him? Or tatters for that matter? Or even Aphix? You aren't really pushing anyone atm.

[skitter30]

i didnt think he was stupid town D1, i thought he newb scumslipped. in hindsight he is just stupid town.

jae is leantown because he was the only one who gave a shit the first few days besides me and osuka

not pushing cuz irl. got slammed with hw this weekend so trtna focus on that. pushing someone here would require some dedication and me checking into this a bit more so i can actually engage and make thoughts and think of questions and shit. pretty mych dont have time to engage with someone as the questioner. i can answer questions though bcuz ik what i was/am thinking.

already said i dont sr u.like go back to ur initial read of me, and 2 things are rvs shitpists, another 2-3 is "pinging u", then there id a toneread, and lastly one thing that is reachy BUT i literally said its probably reachy in the post. Do u see how i think thats crapoy? Like do u?

That's a bad reason townlean Jae, since activity is NAI and they haven't done like anything since I replaced in. And the stuff they did early in the game is flat and trite and incredibly easy for scum to fake. Remember how I called esires out on being bland in 1797? This is the same thing here.

Fair enough about the IRL stuff.

I didn't say you scumread me.

You

said you would've if I wasn't conftown, and your reasoning that you gave here and elsewhere is basically because you think my read on you was bad. That's basically OMGUS and an awful reason to scumread someone. Like, someone can be town and be mistaken in their reads. Heck, you're arguing that you're town despite pushing through a mislynch on what you say you thought was scum!MWAP.

I still strongly believe that statements like the following were attempts to discredit me:

awwww. ur wrong already.

ya if not for the bp claim id sr the slot.

oh god skitters start making sense plz

id sr u because ur reads are C. R. A. P.

I tried to look at this with an open mind, but I'm still very confident that Paul is flipping scum here.

[skitter30]

VOTE: Paul

This is scum, unfortunately. Sorry Paul

[skitter30]

@Mala/osuka/Paul. Sorry for the wall, but you asked.

Look at my 459.

My argument was as follows:

A. I disagree with Paul that Jae should be a townlean, since activity is NAI and even Jae's early content is not that 'towny'. Note that I never argue that Paul is scum for having a differing read from me. I'm merely responding to his statement that he'd scumread my slot if not for the BP claim because my reads (scumread on Paul, null on Jae) are bad. I'm explaining why I'm null on Jae.

B. I had an early scumread on Paul, and that is the reason he gave at the time (early day2) for saying he'd scumread me if I wasn't conf!town. I argue that disagreeing with someone's reads is not a valid reason to scumread them.

C. I move on to say that I believe that the statements he made like 'if not for the bp claim I'd scumread the slot' were attempts to discredit me since he has no backing for these statements (as said in B, the only reasons he gave for 'scumreading' me here is disagreeing with my reads).

Now let's go through his response:

skitters u ignored the why. i literally outlined why ur read of me was bad. if ur read of me was based of decent stuff then mebbe but i just pointed out why i think it was so bad and u ignored that part.

Misrep/sidestepping of my point. He's responding to the argument 'skitter doesn't understand why paul thinks her scumread of him is bad', and not to 'skitter thinks paul is scum because he's discrediting conf!town by announcing her reads are bad with no backing'.

I *do* understand why Paul thinks my scumread on him is bad - he thinks my scumread on him is bad because he thinks it's based on pings and RVS stuff. He's ignoring all my other reasons for scumreading him, most of it based on day2 stuff, which I've said multiple times and even laid out in non-wall form in 403. He still never explains why my 'bad' read on him would be worth scumreading me for if I wasn't conf!town, or how that statement wasn't an attempt to discredit me.

as far as har ik its not great reason to tr himi its why he is a fucking town lean not a solid town. it wasnt even so much he gave a shit but he was asking questions and tryna get ppl to do stuff and i liked it. rn im waiting for him to actually do shit and convince me he is town.

Activity is inherently NAI. That's not a reason to townlean anyone. Again misrep. I never said that Paul said they were a solid townread. Paul doesn't explain how asking questions or trying to get people to do stuff is AI in general, or how in this particular instance it differs from Jae-the-IC trying to kickstart the game. Paul even admits early that much of Jae's early content - the BP thing - is NAI.

He can't give me a concrete reason to townread Jae here, and thus can't refute my argument that Jae is null to me, and thus can't argue that he'd scumread me for having bad reads when he can't show me why I'm wrong. Thus, saying he'd scumread me for my reads is a bad, unfounded argument, and makes me think he was just trying to discredit me.

He's ignoring my major reasons for scumreading him, and is instead responding to things I never said or is just plain making up reasoning that we both know is bad.

[skitter30]

VOTE: Paul

This is scum, unfortunately. Sorry Paul

You don't sound so apologetic. Not really seeing the scum here.

I am apologetic, cuz I like playing with Paul

Seeing as Aphix only has 1 to lynch, I'm not really as eager to have them lynched. For now, I just want to see if there are any other players jumping out at me as scum (particularly JaeReed, DP, and Ciara). Maybe I'll vote for Aphix in the future, but I want to see if there are any more people who are jumping out to me as scum, maybe even my townreads. I'd rather kill scum correctly to avoid a mislynch, than go into Night 2 because we lynched town about a week into D2 and risk town getting killed by scum in the night.

Just for now
UNVOTE:

Your initial vote on Aphix put him at L-1, so why is the fact that he was at L-1 at the time of this post concerning enough to you that you decided to unvote? What happened in between your initial vote and this unovte?

Who is your top scumread right now, and why? Who is your top townread right now, and why? (Don't answer with me lol).

Can you please respond to the above?

[skitter30]

^

(I'm a she btw).

This is a major problem I'm having with Paul right now. Yes, you can think I'm wrong. That's fine. But my perspective is basically guaranteed to be town here, and instead of trying to work with me, you're discrediting me. Instead of showing me why I'm wrong, you're just telling me I'm wrong.

im feeling a bit under the weather rn. ya ik timing is shit.. if u think im scum tryna get out of skitters' trap ur a dick.

Nah, you're fine. I hope you feel better! I actually have the flu Fever broke, so progress.

like ive tred ppl who sr me in the past, i dont fuxking omgus everyone who srs me.

Irrelevant misrep.

okay i wanna know something. if someone srs u and ur town are u supposed to not discredit them? like am i supposed to prop u up so that i get lynched? like should i say ur reads are good? like dafuq do u want?

K. I'm confirmed town here, right? So, no, you don't discredit

me

. You say you think my reads are wrong and that you're going to try to show me why. No, you aren't supposed to prop me up if you think I'm wrong. But there's a big difference between disagreeing with me over a read and trying to discredit me.

The following are attempts to discredit me and my perspective in general, and not just my read on you.

awwww. ur wrong already.

The 'awwww' is condescending, and the 'already' implies that I'll be wrong in the future, in addition to just being wrong about you now.

ya if not for the bp claim id sr the slot.

Baseless shadethrowing where you insinuate that my thought-processes are scummy and thus not credible.

not much too respond to in skitters points. i mean, seems she thinks im not genuine or some gut feeling? i mean sorry ur gut is off?

Implying that my points aren't valid and unworthy of responding to. Reducing my argument to gut.

Like, I can go on if you want, but I don't think anyone is actually going to read this lololol.

I think me/Paul is just going to continue going around in circles, so I'm willing to stop pushing it if Paul wants me to, but I'm not changing my vote.

Right now, I want to hear from DP/Jae/Ciara/Mad, because I don't think I have enough content from them or interaction with them directly to sort them properly.

[skitter30]

@Jae: I kinda feel like you're ignoring the me/Paul/aphix thing. The only stance you've given on the topic is that Aphix is townish because he's being stubborn and doesn't seem to be trying to appeal to others to get out of the lynch. I kinda feel like you're avoiding talking about Paul; the only time you've talked to him or about this entire day is when you said you weren't sure what he was looking for when he asked you if you are scum. I'm also not sure why you're bringing up the 'is-BP-talk-AI-or-not' convo at this time.

@Mad: It's time to play 'Explain Your Reads - Why Addition'!!!

Why is Aphix your top scumread? Why isn't he as scummy as earlier? Why is Osuka your biggest townread? Why is he townie because of MWAP?

Bonus points if you explain your reasoning by pointing to specific posts!

Also, I know you're not voting right now - in an ideal universe, who would you want to lynch today, and why?

[skitter30]

I think I'm townreading Tatters' last post, even though I'm not certain I understand it.

@DP:

DP, could you point me to the posts where you suspect aphix again, please? I want to review that when I get home as well as his reaction to his wagon.

My main point is the insistence that NTRP scumslipped

Where did this happen?

Aphix was harping on something that wasn't a scumslip and was trying his damndest to convince everyone it was

Where did this happen?

@Jae:

3) Yes, I'm avoiding talking about Paul. That ties into the "not certain how to put into words" bit.

When you figure out how to put it into words, please share!

I have more to say here, but I'm going to give you a bit to try to figure out your Paul stance.


@Ciara:

My one issue with voting him is that he's acting like newbscum when he clearly isn't newbscum.

In what way is he acting like newbscum?

because I'm not seeing scummy enough activity elsewhere to move it.

Really? I have like 2.5 townreads right now, (ie two I'm confident on, and one that I'm kinda iffy on) and everyone else is looking rather scummy. Since they can't *all* be scum, I'm kinda having trouble figuring out how to sort the slots that I'm uncertain about.

Can you tell me what you think about everyone that isn't Aphix?

[skitter30]

I agree with basically everything you've said above (although I don't think I've contributed to the inactivity).

That post is town. Aphix is town.

Can we all do something more productive and try to like lynch someone you think is scum? Even Aphix pushes, which are bad cuz he's town, would help the game state.

I could lynch Jae. Paul is still scum, but that might get more traction.

[skitter30]

@DP:

Aphix was harping on something that wasn't a scumslip and was trying his damndest to convince everyone it was

Where did this happen?

Yes, I'm reading the thread.

At the time of the above, the *only* two posts where Aphix talked about the scumslip were the two below. I'm trying to understand why you wrote the above when he hadn't 'harped on' it or 'tr[ied] his damndest to convince everyone it was'. If you think he had done either of those two things, I want you to point out to me where he did it, cuz I don't see that at all. The two posts below do not fit the accusation you're making. If anything, in the second post, he degrades Paul's actions from being a 'scumslip' into being a 'clear disconnect in that thinking'.

I don't think you're accurately representing what happened, which is why I'm poking at this. At best, I think you're being confbiased and are misreading the thread in an attempt to support your POV. At worst, you're scum who is misrepping him in order to push through a mislynch.

everyones next post should include
VOTE: MWAP

why the fuck does he flip town? do u think he intentionally being a little shit to get mislynched?

yes he got angry but content wise he provided nothing and was keeping with useless townie.

Scumslip.

Alright. One there is something there. You notice he says there is NO way MWAP flips town. Now, he's saying that MWAP wasn't providing any content and was "keeping with useless townie".

There is a clear disconnect in that thinking there.

[skitter30]

@Paul:

Yeah, that SE was tunneling you, but *I'm* the one who talked him out of mislynching you like three times. I spent pages arguing that you couldn't be scum there, and I did a good enough job explaining my townread that you became universally townread and became the nightkill even though *we had living conftown*. This isn't a baseless tunnel, and I'm not wasting my time.

You aren't being inactive in the sense of not-posting, but you're kinda fluffposting. Like, you have a high post count, but a lot of it is shitposting or defending yourself. Very little of it today has been attempts to move the game forward by pushing people.

What do you think? Should we lynch Jae?

[skitter30]

jae is like leantown. where did he go is my real question rn.

jae is leantown because he was the only one who gave a shit the first few days besides me and osuka

as far as har ik its not great reason to tr himi its why he is a fucking town lean not a solid town. it wasnt even so much he gave a shit but he was asking questions and tryna get ppl to do stuff and i liked it. rn im waiting for him to actually do shit and convince me he is town.

as far as jae, i thought u should have a read on him. he has done stuff that is AI. he has given thoughts on things. i leaned town because his questions (which i thought was implied) seemed to be gamesolving. he seemed to be trying to understand people's reasoning so he could get a read of them.

In regards to your earlier Jae vote:

@tatters it was to get jae's attention tatters. did its job.

ya its fair im not doing much. tbh this game is kinda a blur since i unvoted aphix. idrk whats been said.

VOTE: jae

We had a huge thing about how I'm nullreading Jae and you're townleaning them. Now you're voting them.

You don't get to use things that happened *after* they voted you to justify your vote. His vote on you (I'm taking that to be why you think they're scumreaing you) and his statement on Aphix happened after you voted.

jae's reads changed minute he was voted

aphix went from town trying to gamesolve to maybe town but if yes stupid town.

i went from tred to sred correct me if im wrong but jae hasnt talked about me since his last readlist rlly. and i was a top tr there...

@Jae/Paul: I'm assuming that it wasn't a no-kill, but that I got shot last night. I believe that scum!Paul shoots me always there, even if I weren't BP.

Tatters kinda reminds me of Dunkers, I guess, except they're wordier.

[skitter30]

Aphix was never scummy and I still don't get why he was wagoned in the first place. His last few posts (especially 506) are incredibly townie. His wagon has collapsed because I spent like a week and a half harping on this and because I said I was open to lynching Jae.

I've changed my mind on Jae. I don't want to lynch them today. I'm not convinced they're town, but I'm not convinced they're scum either.

I want to lynch Paul. Since I apparently can't get that to happen, I'm willing to lynch DP or Ciara. These are the only people I'm willing to lynch today.

Aphix
Osuka
Jae, Tatters
DP, Ciara ---- willing to lynch here and below
Paul

[skitter30]

@Ali: Since Ciara hasn't posted for more than 24 hours since she's been prodded, will she be replaced?

[skitter30]

I want to lynch Paul. I don't think I can get that to happen since the people I need to convince to vote him aren't posting. 4 people got prodded in 48 hours, Jae is due for another prod, and DP is on v/la till tomorrow.

The only people who haven't needed a prod over the last few days are me and Paul lol. (And DP on v/la).

I'm not even sure I can get *anyone* lynched tbh given the lurking.

@Osuka/tatters: why is Paul a townread, and why won't you lynch him? Osuka, meta isn't a good answer - I'm not using meta for my scumread of him. I need reasons from this game on why Paul is town. Tbh, your hard townread of Paul is making me more paranoid of you.

@Ali: I think Jae is due for another prod as well.

[skitter30]

I'm slightly concerned that Paul's last post and their votes on each other are distancing attempts.

[skitter30]

@Paul:

I think you're trying to use AtE on me cuz we both know I'm susceptible to that, and it worked in 1797.

I think you're trying to find any lynch that isn't you today because

I'm most likely not freaking going to be alive tomorrow to push for your lynch

. If I can't get you lynched today, it almost for sure isn't going to happen on a later day.

I don't know why you keep on saying that if you're dead, I'll get my head out of my ass and move on to someone else tomorrow when I'm probably not going to be alive for that.

[skitter30]

@Osuka/tatters: why is Paul a townread, and why won't you lynch him? Osuka, meta isn't a good answer - I'm not using meta for my scumread of him. I need reasons from this game on why Paul is town. Tbh, your hard townread of Paul is making me more paranoid of you.

[skitter30]

I was scumhunting early on.
I've been thinking about my reads all fucking d2 while working and shit. Like, come on man

Yeah, but we haven't seen like any of that. You haven't shown us any of those reads. Best I got out of you today is a weird flip-flop on Paul. You think he made the kill, but you were reluctant to share that for most of the day, you threw shade on my defense of Aphix, you wouldn't discuss Paul for most of the day, and now you want to vote Tatters, conveniently right after Paul brings the idea up.

think if jae flips scum, tatters should be lynched next and then aphix.

VOTE: Madtatters
Don't know where I stand so just voting who I don't want in lylo at this stage.

Like,this is a freaking awful vote on someone who I'm sure you know quite well is never getting lynched today. Do you really think you can get Tatters lynched in the next 48 hours? That's not a thing that's happening in this gamestate. This vote is a copout and you're basically avoiding giving a stance on any of the major wagons.

[skitter30]

@skitter: paul feels genuine in the way only he does and it's normal for town paul to do things that are normally weird, like the vote shenanigans he's been pulling in the last two pages or so - so most of those things, that would normally be a tell, are actually nai for him


pedit: nice misrep aphix
paul meant there was no kill on night 1. Skitters is the obvious nk tonight (assuming she was shot - that's a very safe assumption to make)

Again, without meta. What did he do in *this* game that makes you think he's town.

[skitter30]

@Paul:

I can't freaking get you lynched and I've been trying for two weeks. If it doesn't happen today it doesn't happen. That's why I've been trying so hard.

And you're misrepping me. I've never said that acting like you don't want to be lynched is scummy. I'm saying that you're pulling this 'So just fuckign lynch me' bullshit as an AtE ploy on me because you know it's worked on me in the past.

@Jae: Go enjoy your date

[skitter30]

Yay Blackvoid! Let's not misread each other this time lolol

[skitter30]

@skitter: paul feels genuine in the way only he does and it's normal for town paul to do things that are normally weird, like the vote shenanigans he's been pulling in the last two pages or so - so most of those things, that would normally be a tell, are actually nai for him


pedit: nice misrep aphix
paul meant there was no kill on night 1. Skitters is the obvious nk tonight (assuming she was shot - that's a very safe assumption to make)

Again, without meta. What did he do in *this* game that makes you think he's town.

that's a shitty proposition yeah

you know how you read people and then nobody goes "but yeah without [something] what about it"
well I don't fucking know how to pick something that I can read without any meta. I know it's paul, so naturally i'm gonna judge whether it's towny or not based on my view of paul's game. I am innately biased because I like to think i know how he plays, so there is zero point in pretending i can pick some part of his game and go "this is towny and would be universally so", because that's bullshit - so i might as well drop the veil right now and tell you that it is very much a meta read but it's a strong one because his game has been very consistently towny (albeit in his way). I'm 90-10 confident that he'll flip town

Fine. So my counter-argument is that based on my meta with him, there's no freaking way he's town here. Town!Paul doesn't interact with me that way. He's paranoid of me and sheeps me despite that. He does *not* immediately try to discredit me. He doesn't do this fake bravado BS that he's been doing for the entire day. I can literally point to posts where he's said that.

[skitter30]

Lol, like the one thing I'm confident about this game is that he's scum. Almost everyone else is sketchy to me atm.

@Paul: Please don't replace out. Sorry I'm being so aggressive . . . I have a tendency to do that when I think I found something, and I was getting frustrated because I couldn't really get anyone to talk to me and the game kinda stalled.

[skitter30]

I can't be scum here. You believe that Yukko was town - what motivation would he have about lying about his role?

I'm willing to re-evaluate on Paul (again), so I'm waiting for what BV has to say. I think Aphix is town though. I'm willing to vote Jae again.

[skitter30]

K, but you listed a possibility where you're considering me as scum with Aphix? Like, I wasn't even the person who claimed - you townread Yukko and he claimed, which means you should trust it. I don't get why you think scum!me is a possibility to you here.

And are you really trying to say that you're willing to lynch me?

I'll come back to JaeReed & Skitter30 D3, if nobody switches to them first haha.

I honestly believe you as town, but not town I want around as long as JaeReed and Aphix are scum

Also, I don't see Aphix/Jae being a team like at all here. Why does Jae being a low-lying player make them a good partner for Aphix? Why does scum!Aphix repeatedly call his partner out on that? Like, the way you wrote the second option, it sounds almost like you think Aphix *chose* Jae as a partner because it would balance out his playstyle?

By that I mean that they aren't aware that Aphix and JaeReed are scum,

And this is just bizarre, because of course I don't

know

who scum is. I'm very aware of the possibility that either of them might be, and I've even considered the fact that I may have been pocketed by Aphix. But his frustration at the lynch and the fact that *his lynch stalled and that we won't even gain much useful info from it* makes me think he's town. Jae could be scum though.

[skitter30]

I can't tell if that post was written by newbtown or newbscum tbh.

[skitter30]

Skitters why do u think a wagon stalling is a sign if town? Do u think both scum were on aphix wagon? If so who (other than me bcuz i assume u still sr me)

I'm assuming the first question is a response to the following:

But his frustration at the lynch and

at

the fact that *his lynch stalled and that we won't even gain much useful info from it* makes me think he's town.

I realized after I hit submit that I missed a crucial word here, added in bold above. I'll rephrase: I'm townreading him for his frustration at the lynch and for his frustration at the fact that his lynch stalled so we won't even gain much useful info from it. The townread doesn't really have much to do with the fact that the wagon stalled.

Since literally everyone besides for me and him either pushed Aphix or wagoned him, scum had to be involved involved in the Aphix push/wagon, which is why I wouldn't touch it. I still don't see why scum!Aphhix's partner would be bussing him there. Since I'm townreading him, both scum had to have been involved. I don't know who the other one is atm.

[skitter30]

Paul, I hope everything is going OK for you IRL!

BV, I'm around now. I'll address your questions, but I'm going to need to write a wall for that; give me a bit

I'm leaning town on BV:

Aphix
osuka/BV
tatters
DP --- willing to lynch here and below
Jae
Paul

Null is between tatters and DP.

We have like a day, so we need to figure this out.

[skitter30]

Highlights through that point of the game is in 403. I'll expand on those.

If you have other questions for me, let me know!

Spoiler: 1.

Attempts to buddy and then discredit me.

skitters i need u to be town because ur a great town.

First post of day 2. I take this to be a buddying attempt.

After I say that (317), he responds with

awwww. ur wrong already.

There's a disconnect between 318 and 308. In 308, he's implying he values my opinion/reads and that he wants to work with me. 318 is slightly condescending and implies that I'm not only wrong on him, but that

I'll be wrong in the future as well

(from 'already'). The only thing that happened in between is that I said I had a scumlean in between, and suddenly, he's expecting me to be wrong.

I laid at some more of the discrediting at the end of 479. The one I have the biggest problem with is the following:

ya if not for the bp claim id sr the slot.

He's implying that my thought process is scummy and thus not credible, even though he's not *actually* saying I'm scum.

I pushed him on this several times (339, 367) because I wanted to know where this not!scumread came from. I finally got out of him that he'd scumread me because

id sr u because ur reads are C. R. A. P.

atleast on me and jae (ya ik u have no read u should imo)

he thinks my scumread on him is bad and because he thinks I should have had a read on Jae at that time (I was nullreading them, he was townleaning them).

I addressed both of these points in 459 and 468 at length. The tldr is that he couldn't explain the Jae townlean, and he couldn't explain why my read was bad. He'd scumread me for having bad reads, but he can't explain why they're bad.

Spoiler: 2/3

His vote on MWAP was very odd. I don't get any real frustration there, rather it seems to me like he's trying to push through the lynch. He took the scumclaim seriously, alleged that she was scum, and then argued a policy lynch. But nowhere does he actually seem *annoyed* with her for doing it. His reaction just doesn't seem genuine. I had pointed this out a few times, and he ignored me a few times, and only answered me after I pointed this out like twice.

He then started off Day2 by pushing Aphix for voting MWAP when he asked everyone to vote her. I don't get why that push makes any sort of sense at all. When I defended Aphix, he flip-flopped away, but *never* actually pushed anyone besides Aphix. Then he has a weird vote on Jae that came out of nowhere despite them being a townlean before, and then he goes back to Aphix as a gut!scum read. There's no other pushes there.

Spoiler: 4

His tone is just really off. I'm not sure I can explain this one properly. Like, it just feels kinda fake. False bravado might be the right word? I'm not sure. Like his reaction to the MWAP things just seems off. I don't see any real frustration there. Like 262 just seems fake. 341 and 342 as well. I don't have the words to explain why these posts bother me. They just seem off. There's a lot of posts like 341/342 that just seem tonally weird. Like he's trying to be overly confident? That might be it.

The way he's interacting with me is also off. Like, he claims he thinks I'm 'great town', but then he immediately starts shading my reads, but can't explain why I'm wrong. There isn't any 'you're wrong about your reads. Let me show you why so we can solve the game together'. It's been 'you're wrong about your reads. Your reads are just bad. I'm just going to post to tell you you're wrong without actually doing anything to show you why I'm town'

Other assorted things in 417.

[skitter30]

@BV:

1. Fair enough. I think it was part of the tone thing that was bothering me, which I didn't figure out/wasn't able to articulate until much later. Like, it pinged me immediately, but I didn't figure out it the 'already' until I went back a week later to try to dissect it. It just seemed off.

2.Yeah, that's basically it. He isn't acting the way I'd expect town!Paul to act around me. I'm conf!town. I'm behaving *exactly* the way he said he expects me to as town, based on how he correctly townread me in 1797. Like, he nailed the difference between my towngame and scumgame there in a way that I was never able to articulate. He even got you to townread me for a bit before we got into that thing. And yet . . . I'd be scumread here for reasons that have nothing to do with that. It doesn't feel right.

3. The reads he said were bad were specifically the Paul scumread and the Jae nullread. I don't think he ever actually said he had a problem with the Aphix townread. In fact, when I pushed him on his scumlean, he eventually retracted it and stopped pushing it for a while because he claimed he didn't understand the context of Aphix's vote (which he had asked for). He said he may have been wrong and he'd need to reread. (I can find the posts if you need me too). He then moved onto Jae, said he'd sheep me into lynching himself (?) and then moved back to Aphix as gutscum. His progression on Aphix just seems weird and flipfloppy and unnatural.

4-5. Agree basically. I don't have much to say here.

6. Yeah. I don't know what the right words are. Like, overly confident or overly aggressive in a way that doesn't seem natural. Something like that? Like, he keeps on doing it, but then apologizing for being a dick to me as he does it. (@Paul, you're fine and I don't think you need to apologize; nothing you've said bothers me).

Aphix - town. He seems incredibly frustrated at the gamestate, and at the fact that his lynch won't even give town that much info. Like he seemed fine with getting lynched so long as it helped town. He also is like actually willing to engage with people, and seems to respond to what other people are saying, which is a plus in this game where people have been kinda bad about following up with their thoughts. I also don't think he can be scum for gamestate reasons; that push on him was based on nothing and the fact that *everyone* went along really bothers me.

Osuka - it's mainly for the reaction at MWAP's throw. He seemed genuinely frustrated at the way she behaved, in a way that I don't think scum would be behaving when they're handed a free mislynch. Like, I could see scum being that frustrated if it was their partner. I don't see scum knowing that this is a townflip reacting that way. That's pretty much why I think he's town. Besides for that, he'd be null or maybe even null-scum

You - Ciara was null-scum because she wasn't really paying much attention, and wasn't really doing anything. Like I felt like she may have been lurking pas tthe me/Aphix/Paul thing. She also misrepresented some things, but I also felt like she wasn't actually reading. I feel *much* better about you. I'm not 100% sold yet that you're town, but this seems very similar to town!you from 1797. Don't want to lynch you today. If Jae flipped town I would look at you more.

Tatters - lean town. Definitely newb. A few of her (early) posts I just don't see coming from newbscum though, so townlean.

DP - I don't know how to read him, and he's been lurking a bit and hasn't really been responding to me, so it's hard to read someone who doesn't interact with you. null-scum basically because I can't really get anything out of him.

Jae - Started off the day as just null. Literally nothing they did day1 seemed AI to me, despite posting a fair amount. I didn't get the townreads here. As more time went on and there was just *nothing* that I could read from them despite them producing content, I started to lean scum. Like they felt like they were deliberately trying not to say anything too controversial or weighty. I feel like their reads are kinda arbitrary. They wouldn't give me an opinion on Paul for most of the day despite townleaning him day1. Eventually their scumlean on Paul came because of the nightkill only, which was kinda reachy, but wouldn't really respond or interact with anything else I said about Paul. Then out of nowhere they kinda haphazardly voted Paul. Then unvoted him (you said you don't see them as a team . . . i could see their votes/unvotes on each other as distancing attempts). Then starts a non-viable vanity wagon just before deadline (before it got extended) and hasn't even tried to push it? Like, it feels like they're trying to avoid giving a stance on the Paul/Aphix thing.

Paul - discussed.

I feel like they could be a team for *exactly* the reaosn you discussed - they decided to try to lead the town by townreading each other. Their interactions are just plain weird tbh. Neither of them can really explain their reads on the other. Random votes on each other. Like, it's just weird.

[skitter30]

@Jae: I kinda feel like how you arrived at Aphix/Paul town is kinda wonky and doesn't really progress naturally.

Aphix was initially 'could be scum, but dunno', 'kinda wanna lynch him to spite skitter,' 'let's hold off the lynch for a bit but i don't know why scum wouldn't be bussing here' (this is the bit that I find incredibly strange because I literally don't see a reason why scum *would* be bussing there and you never responded to this when I said that) 'wait, he's town now'

Then, after that, you moved on to Paul: 'townlean because you don't think he could be that genuine/free-flowing as scum' (at the end of day1), 'partial to shitposters and his interactions with Osuka early day1 seem genuine', literally no mention of them until halfway through day2 despite being the major topic of conversation, 'yes I'm ignoring paul because I don't know how to put my read of him into words,' 'vote Paul w/e,' 'Paul is the only one who could have made that night-kill (reachy imo)', 'he's town again because he asked to be lynched'

Then: 'vote Madtatters' as a liability lynch close to deadline but didn't try to push it.

Like, nothing here seems natural. It all seems kinda disingenuous. The things you're doing don't seem to match your reads or your stances, and your reads just kinda change and I'm not really seeing why.

Like, I'll drop it if it's making you frustrated, but this is why you're sketchy to me, and why you're my compromise lynch atm.

[skitter30]

@BV: I'll try, but no promises. If not I'll be around tomorrow.

[skitter30]

'let's hold off the lynch for a bit but i don't know why scum wouldn't be bussing here' (this is the bit that I find incredibly strange because I literally don't see a reason why scum *would* be bussing there and you never responded to this when I said that)

uhh remind me where I said this please? hard to remember this without context but I remember thinking that scum HAD to be on that wagon at one point.

@Skitter I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to read your posts but from what I can glean it feels like you're assuming that scum wouldn't bus here. Can you expand on why you think that, please?

Why would scum be bussing here? There's a perfectly viable counterwagon. Why would they not hop onto that? He hasn't done anything to warrant being wagoned that quickly. It's not like scum!Aphix's partner absolutely needs to distance from some awful team-incriminating slip he made or something. I see literally no reason for them to bus him here if they can just hop onto the counterwagon I'm pushing. What do they gain from it? They're losing one half of a two-member team for . . . what exactly?

[skitter30]

Like, nothing here seems natural. It all seems kinda disingenuous. The things you're doing don't seem to match your reads or your stances, and your reads just kinda change and I'm not really seeing why.

I mean my read on Paul was up in the air after the nightkill for the reasons I eventually shared where I was thinking about the stuff about PRs and nk choice.

I know. From my POV, it looks like you avoided talking to/about him for the first part of the day, and again, the temporary scumread was based solely on nk choice and not on anything he said/did at any point throughout the day. It felt like you were ignoring the major topic at hand.

[skitter30]

If Jae flipped town I would look at you more.

Also this was @BV and I want to ask why you have this view because I think BV is pretty town.

BV is fairly town, and based on meta I feel reasonably confidant in town!BV.

Before he replaced in, my understanding of the game was: scum!Paul + one of {Ciara slot/you/DP}. He's pretty quickly removed himself out of that pool, so right now it's scum!Paul + one of {you/DP}. DP I think is in that pool because I don't have enough content to read him; it isn't a strong scumread, it's just that no one else really fits in that slot. If I'm wrong about you, I have to reevaluate who makes sense there, and the fact that BV came into the game targetting town!you would make me suspect him more than anyone else then.

[skitter30]

If I'm wrong about you, I have to reevaluate who makes sense there, and the fact that BV came into the game targetting town!you would make me suspect him more than anyone else then.

I think this isn't a very strong point. Town can be wrong, and considering you suspect me I have to assume town have valid reasons to suspect me, and BV has laid out those reasons and I don't think he's being particularly disingenuous about his read here.
What are your reads if Paul is town here? I think you're focusing a lot on a Paul!scum world, which is great if he is scum, but if he's town I feel like you've spent too much time tunneling on one worldview and would rather have your thoughts there in the open before the next day phase.
Why is osuka or tatters not suspect if I flip town?

Fair enough. You apparently see the game through night kill analysis, and I tend to see it in terms of the gamestate and relationships players have with each other (see: why I don't think Aphix is scum, and certainly never scum with Paul). I think I keep a running list in my head of what pairings could make sense, and cross them off or add them to the list as things happen. I usually don't explicitly think through all the pairings, as much as sort of have a feel for what I think could make sense based on what relationships I'm seeing. Someone might get promoted/demoted in my reads because of PoE and because I need to put two people as scum in a six person game even though I'm not confident that my lowest reads are scum *together*.

My reads in a town!Jae world are as follows:
Town!Jae flip:
osuka/Aphix
tatters,BV
DP
Paul


Osuka is still a townread because the read is mostly independent of you/Paul/Aphix. I'm townreading him for his reaction to MWAP's gamethrow. Tatters' read is also independent of the three of you, so your townflip won't really affect anything. Tatters' is a townlean mostly because a few of their posts I just don't see newbscum saying. It's not that BV is no longer a townread, it's just that he gets demoted a bit because I'm not confident that Paul/DP are a team, and I need to consider how two scum can possibly fit amongst these six players. Me saying I want to look at him more is a PoE thing telling me that I shouldn't forget about him, not an explicit scumread. Like, I'd consider BV and tatters in the same sense here, even though they're both townleans.

Scum!Jae flip:
Aphix
Osuka/BV
Tatters
DP
Paul

I am willing to admit I might be tunneling Paul, which is why I keep on trying to take a step back and reevaluate my read of him. However, he keeps on doing things that are *very* hard for me to townread him, so my scumread keeps on coming back.

Scum Paul flip reads:
Aphix
osuka/BV
tatters
DP
You


But, to be thorough, my reads upon a town!Paul flip would look something like this:
osuka
Aphix/BV
tatters/DP
you

Osuka, again, is independent of you/Jae/Paul. Part of the Aphix townread is because he doesn't make sense with Paul. If Paul is town, Aphix's townread becomes less strong. Tatters moves down as part of PoE, because two of the six of you is scum, and I'm not confident in scum!DP here. You're progression on Paul is strange whatever his alignment. His flip doesn't really change that. BV and Aphix would also be considered, but sort of secondarily after tatters/dp/you.

Tatters is always in the middle because they're a townlean that isn't really affected by these flips, and I'm having trouble seeing them paired with anyone. DP a scumlean because their read isn't really affected by these flips. Osuka is towards the top because of MWAP.

[skitter30]

Town!Jae and town!Paul

Honestly, I'm having a really tough time seeing that universe, especially because I'd need to see how the first flip played out, but something like this:
Osuaka
BV/Aphix
DP/tatters

But I don't see DP/tatters together really? Like, there's nothing to rule it out, but nothing to back it either. And the differences between the rows is kinda small, and it's hard for me to arrange this to feel 'right'. Osuka could go down a level, BV/Aphix could go up together or independently. BV could also be on another level between Aphix and DP/tatters. And Aphix could go between BV and DP/tatters oddly enough.

It would really depend on who get flipped first, who ended up on the wagon, and how the second wagon progressed. I don't really have enough info to give you a concrete answer to that one.

[skitter30]

If DP were scum who is most likely his partner?
Why do you have trouble seeing tatters with anyone? Specially Aphix/DP.

Paul is DP's most likely partner, but it doesn't go the other way. You're Paul's most likely partner.

DP's partners look something like this, from most to least likely, but this is kinda fuzzy because he hasn't interacted with a lot of these people. Like, I'm kinda working around him, making this list based on other things (like I think Paul is scum, Osuka is town regardless of DP, etc) instead of what he said/did with regards to another player.

Paul
you/tatters
Aphix/BV --- here and above is at least worth considering to some degree or another
Osuka

I don't have a strong enough read/feel for DP or tatters in this game to give strong opinions on them. They're both somewhere around null because I don't feel confident on my read of the two of them, and they haven't interacted enough with like half the game for me to try to map the relationships. That's why I can't see tatters with like anyone, because she hasn't really interacted with anyone, so I can't really explain how my reads are affected in different scenarios. I don't have enough information to extrapolate what a particular universe would look like.

[skitter30]

@Jae: Since you're townreading yourself/Paul/Aphix, where's scum?

[skitter30]

I don't have a strong enough read/feel for DP or tatters in this game to give strong opinions on them. They're both somewhere around null because I don't feel confident on my read of the two of them, and they haven't interacted enough with like half the game for me to try to map the relationships. That's why I can't see tatters with like anyone, because she hasn't really interacted with anyone, so I can't really explain how my reads are affected in different scenarios. I don't have enough information to extrapolate what a particular universe would look like.

This is kind of the place I imagine scum would be fine being in.

Thing is that I don't think tatters is doing it on purpose, and DP did the same thing in another game I played with him (micro 730). I was a dayvig there and long story short needed to vig someone to prove myself. He was in my {willing to vig} pool there for similar reasons why he's in my {willing to lynch} pool now - because I didn't have a proper read on him and had at least sorted most other people. I vigged him, he flipped town, and I don't see anything substantially different between his play there and his play here for me to actually *scumread* him for it. He's kinda null, slight scumlean but only because I feel like I should have more of a read on him by now. Like I was saying before, he becomes a greater focus upon certain flips (especially townflips).

Why is DP your top scumread atm?

[skitter30]

Okay Im really sorry I thought id have time tonight but things didnt go as planned and I have a shitton of hw I thought i wouldnt have as well as test. Was gonna drop an AP class but counselor was like nah so now im stuck and have to make la bunh flashcards and cram for a test by Friday.

I really wanna respond though. If BV/Skitters could give me like 2-3 questions each that my answer would help most, I can probably do it on my ride to school tommorrow.

Idk if anyone asked but my reads are like

Skitters, BV
What the fuck.

So yea. Idk what the fuck to do. Osuka is more towny than the rest but he kinda stopped and so that isnt even set in stone. Like Jae and aphix im kinda gut scumreading. I feel like aphix has really stopped pushing me. Like i feel as town if im still his top sr he should be pushing me. That said, who am I to say he stopped pushing? *shrug*

@BV One question I can answer is I orefer being scum more. Like to know whatsup

Um, please prioritize your classes/tests/HW lol. You have a test already, gosh. Good luck! Which AP(s) you taking? I don't start for another couple of weeks and my summer job ended last week, so I have free time atm lol.

Questions (when you have time; please concentrate on your homework/test )
1. Who is your ideal lynch today and why?

2. Who would you compromise lynch today and why?

[skitter30]

Why is DP your top scumread atm?

Because bv reminded me of what I didn't like about him D1 and I agree with his read of it being an easy vote for scum to make this day on aphix

Hmm, ok.

Tbh, I kinda feel the same way about this DP read. It's safe, since you're sheeping BV, and I still have trouble seeing how you're townreading both Paul and Aphix atm. It feels a bit like you have to find *someone* to scumread, so you're picking a safe third option, especially since myself and Osuka said we'd be willing to compromise lynch there.

I think I'm going to ISO DP at some point tonight.

[skitter30]

I don't want to lynch osuka. I agree with basically everything he just said, especially his points about Tatters and DP. I think both slots are low info lynches, and I don't really want to lynch them when there's Jae/Paul to look at first, especially if Tatters is going to be replaced.

Also, osuka, you're hilarious And I hope the move went well, and good luck with your classes!

@BV: I'm going to be up for a bit more. If I notice you around before I go to sleep, we can talk; if not, I'll be around tomorrow morning.

@Ali:

1. Was the scum PT open during pre-game?

2. Since tatters is being replaced and there's a deadline tomorrow, will there be a deadline extension?

Thanks!

[skitter30]

Besides it's not that hard to not town read Skitter right now. Honestly, if you weren't conf town, I'd push for you

Why?

[skitter30]

@BV: DP early on had a scumread on Paul that he never did anything about. Today, he's remained staunchly on Aphix throughout the day, and has misrepped Aphix. When I pointed that out, or tried to find out more why he thought Aphix was scummy, I never got an answer. He also seems to be ignoring the Paul side of the Aphix/me/Paul thing, and there's a few comments from Paul that I can see coming from a partner without daychat, especially the following:

@dp get off the scumslip trash. he barely mentioned it. ya ik others have mentioned but idc i wanna say it too cuz its getting annoyibg

Which came immediately after I questioned DP's misrep of saying Aphix was 'harping' on Paul's alleged scumslip (514).

That's why I can seem him as scum *with* Paul.

[skitter30]

VOTE: Jae

I don't think I can get Paul, and there's a deadline in like four hours. This is my compromise.

I dislike that Paul/Jae voted each other a few pages ago, but now neither are in each others' lynch pools. I don't understand how or why that happened.

[skitter30]

Jae sorting me is useless, because we all know I'm town. Like, I appreciate the effort, but it's kinda silly to spend the night before a lynch trying to sort the conf!town instead of the people you're thinking about lynching.

The fact that my top two scumreads are willing to lynch DP makes me wary of a DP lynch. I feel like they know there's support there (you, me, osuka), especially on Paul's part. Like, it's very weird that they were voting each other earlier, but now neither wants a lynch on the other, but DP is in both of their lynch pools. This is a new thing, like within the past couple of days, and it feels kinda sketchy.

Thing with DP is that I'm not confident I can read him, and off the cuff, he seems very similar to town!DP in a micro I played with him where I kinda dayvigged him basically because I couldn't read him. I got goaded into the shot there because I was trying to compromise vig, and I feel like the same thing is happening here. It would be a compromise lynch that I don't really want.

I want to reskim his ISO there, but off the cuff, it's pretty similar to this game.

p-editUNVOTE:

[skitter30]

@Jae: You were one of the two people I had pegged as the other PR early on, and why I wasn't pushing you that hard for being null early; I thought you might be trying to stay under the radar for that reason. The less you contributed the more sketchy I found you. But I find this believable enough to not lynch you today.

Tatters was the other one, which is why they were consistently a townlean. They go down a considerable amount now.

Why did you track Ciara night1?

@BV: You're like pretty blatantly town. The townread on you isn't weird at all.

[skitter30]

I missed that. Makes sense then.

Still want Paul. I wanna read DP's ISO in that other game. Tatters is now a possibility I think, although I fucking hate lynching slots that don't have people behind them. Especially if I think that's where the cc is, if it even exists.

[skitter30]

His ISO is here (micro 730).

He did like nothing early day1, thus putting him into my vig pool. His reaction to that is actually rather different than his reaction to getting lynched here. He didn't have a problem with getting vigged if it would advance the game. Here, he seems kinda indifferent to his lynch. Like, his reaction there was kinda similar to Aphix's reaction to his wagon there, and I should've townread him for it (spoiler: he got vigged). But here, he's been talked about as a tertiary scurmead, and he's been in people's lynchpools for a few days, and he just seems indifferent. He isn't responding, he isn't trying to get as much info out of his lynch as possible, he isn't trying to sort the people pushing him.

He actually seems different.

Paul
DP
Tatters

[skitter30]

@Jae: I hope you feel better.

Off the cuff, Paul/DP makes sense to me. I have to think through the other ones, but give me like half an hour to do stuff. I'll be back.

[skitter30]

I think the 'overreaction' thing is a playstyle thing for him, tbh.

The oddest thing I see about Osuka is that Paul is a strong townread, and I can't get him to elaborate on why. He also hasn't really been engaging in like any of my points on why I think Paul is scum (that's why I'm having trouble narrowing it down; people haven't really been interacting with me).

I think it was 276, but I'm not getting the same town!vibes now as I did the first time I read it. He hasn't really done anything alignment indicative this whole game besides for that for much of the game.

His case on Aphix was awful (I think I wrote a wall ripping it apart that I never posted), but so was everyone else's, so I can't really single him out for that.

I don't know if DP/Osuka makes sense, because of 414; DP has been in his scumpool for ages. However, he never really pushed him. That's the thing. People weren't really pushing anyone, so it's hard to read people.

One thing that slightly bothers me is

Tatters gains town points for the display of coherence and cohesion in 380-382

Those posts weren't coherent or cohesive at all, and I actually did the take the time to show why. This may have been a pocketing attempt, and he recently very much dislikes tatters, but doesn't even list her in his 'willing to lynch post'.

I guess Paul is still scum to me, Aphix is still town, I'm willing to believe Jae for now so I don't want to lynch there, and I don't really know how to differentiate between Osuka/DP/Tatters because I don't think they've interacted enough for me to sort them properly (which I've been saying for like a week now, sigh).

[skitter30]

Based on whose online, I don't even know if we have the votes to logistically pull off a lynch tbh. Aphix could go threw logistically, but all the people I don't like are on it, and I think he's town, and I don't want to vote there. I don't think the other wagons are logistically possible with only me/Jae/BV/Osuka online.

[skitter30]

That was what I was referencing with my rvs vote and has me harboring a fair amount of paranoia when someone says osuka's reactions are good because I know he can fake that.

Interesting. OK. Then my townread has kinda degraded, because that's the one thing he was town for; he was null independently of that. I need to ISO him now.

[skitter30]

@osuka: I don't understand what you're trying to say about 388? The aphix wagon? So you weren't actually townreading her, but just said that to make his wagon look better? Why would you want to throw that wagon into overdrive? It was already at L-1?

And I'm very familiar with town!Paul, and have played with him twice, once as town and once as scum. He got mislynched for the sheepiness in my scum game, and I correctly townread him in the town game to the point where I got him universally townread and talked other people out of mislynching him like three times after he proposed doing something anti-town. I'm saying I can differentiate it, and this isn't it.

He especially isn't acting the way I'd expect him to act around town!me. Like look at viewtopic.php?f=50&t=71874&user_select% ... &start=200, cntrl + F my name and see what he thinks of town!me. I'd pull quotes, but there's too many of them. Especially 232, 486, 1189, 1224, and 1228. He isn't interacting the same way here, and it's just really off.

[skitter30]

@BV: I just read his ISO around the TB policylynch in 1810 and the way he interacted around MWAP. Jae's right. He was more aggressive there. It's toned down here around MWAP than around TB in 1810. It feels different. He was hyper-pushing it there. The two situations aren't quite the same, as there he was pushing a PL on town!TB who has a known meta of lurking as scum, and here he was dealing with someone who is throwing. I'm still having a slightly difficult time seeing his reaction to MWAP as being from scum who knows she's flipping town. I dunno.

[skitter30]

VOTE: Docter Pepper

[skitter30]

@Paul: The townread of Aphix is for gamestate reasons (scum was either bussing him or both scum were on him - more likely imo) + frustration at town not getting info out of his lynch.

I dunno. Maybe I'm tunneling Paul and it's just DP/Tatters.

[skitter30]

Why is scum!DP so resistant to a Paul lynch?

[skitter30]

That's L-1.

DP, if you're around, a claim is nice, but since we know the PRs already, I don't think it matters too much.

Assuming no ccs to Jae:

ScumDP flip:
Jae
BV/aphix
tatters/osuka ---- viable partners here and below
Paul

Town!DP, assuming Jae is not cc'd:
Jae
BV
aphix --- viable scumteam here and below
osuka/tatters
paul

paul most likely, aphix least likely. if you don't want to think about scum!paul, then aphix has to be considered, but i'm pretty confident on town!aphix

[skitter30]

K, why doesn't the game have a tracker exactly?

[skitter30]

I know. I find this about twenty thousand times less likely than Jae being tracker though.

[skitter30]

But at least we apparently have confirmed scum in {Jae/DP}, so yay.

[skitter30]

Note to self: read around the post where jae talks about the nightkill. Might be interesting.

DP/Tatters is worth another look.

DP/Paul still very viable.

[skitter30]

It's at least *semi* plausible, as it partially explains why he absolutely wouldn't consider scum!Paul today, kinda how like Jae is working in a town!BV universe.

Still less likely than Jae. I don't really feel that bad either way, because if DP flips town, Jae is 100% tomorrow's lynch. Like, do not let them try to talk you out of it.

[skitter30]

Yeah, but DP isn't hammering himself, and if Paul doesn't get online, we don't have the numbers. I'm not counting on Aphix (who I think might be in Europe even?) and tatters is getting replaced.

[skitter30]

Paul's in PDT like us; he's said things like 'I have to go to sleep now, it's 1am by me' when it's 1am for me.

I'm trying to do that. If there's a no-lynch, I'm getting killed here 100% of the time. One of DP or Jae *must* be lynched tomorrow, since scum is guaranteed to be in that pair. I think DP is more likely scum here, and would push for that. I still think Paul is scum. He's viable with DP.

DP partners: Paul, then tatters/osuka, then Aphix, with Aphix being exceedingly less likely.

I think DP not considering Paul as scum is indicative of possible partners.

@everyone, I trust BV, and he's probably my biggest townread atm. (lol after misreading you last game. Your game's too similar to that one). Trust him.

[skitter30]

@Paul: I've suspected Jae's null-ness was because they were trying to lie low because they were a PR. That's why I didn't push them on it so much at the beginning of the day. That's pretty much what I was thinking about them as soon as I read through the game and caught up. They stayed null for most of the day and I got sketchy on them, but it matches what I was thinking at the start of the day.

I never got PR vibes from DP.

[skitter30]

Other assorted thoughts, kinda rambly/stream of consciousness-y.

Osuka I'm still townleaning on because of the way he reacted to MWAP; I just don't see scum knowing she would flip town react that way. I don't remember if I ever said it, but DP's reaction to MWAP kinda bothered me the same way Paul's did. DP may have been trying to pocket tatters; look at the DP/tatters interactions. Aphix is still likely town. He's never scum with Paul; I don't think scum Paul starts the day pushing scum!Aphix and keeps on circling back to that.

tatters I don't have a strong read on, and is the only place I realistically expected a PR cc from; Jae/tatters were the two people I was thinking could be PRs. There's a line in my catchup alluding to the fact that I might have more to say about tatters later; I got PR vibes from that post. DP doesn't really make much sense as a PR to me.

If we no-lynch here, I think tomorrow is 6-player MYLO? I haven't thought through the numbers yet, but I think if we mislynch there, we lose.

That's it for now, but I'll post things as I think them before deadline.

[skitter30]

Things happened lol.

Kinda weird that Paul was willing to hammer DP here. Could have very easily gotten away with a nolynch.

[skitter30]

@BV: I don't know if I have time to think through implications of 783 before the thread locks, but look at that.

[skitter30]

They aren't both town. They can't both be telling the truth. I know I'm BP. One or the other exists. They both cannot.

Town!DP Jae stays alive. Scum!DP Jae is dead. No-lynch, I'm dead.

MYLO tomorrow was only if we had a nolynch today. Never mind, numbers are hard. No-lynch takes us to seven players tomorrow. You no-lynching applied to a scenario that doens't exist because I can't count. I think. I still want BV to look at your hammer.

@BV: Try to think if scum!Paul makes sense if we have a scumflip given the fact that he hammered here. (I'm thinking of like 80 different things and I'm trying to get them down before the thread locks, sorry if I'm not as coherent as usual).

Town!DP, powerlynch Jae tomorrow.

[skitter30]

@BV: Try to think if scum!Paul makes sense if we have a scumflip given the fact that he hammered here.

Given the fact that he hammered here when he could have very easily allowed a no-lynch to happen and force the DP/Jae thing another day.

[skitter30]

So, here's where I'm at:

BV is town by play

Aphix is likely town - frustration at yesterday's wagon + I don't think DP's push on him makes sense as a bus.

Osuka - nulltown. I still don't think their reaction to MWAP comes from scum who knows she's flipping town

Tatters/RM - nullscum. I had her as a town lean because I thought she was a possible PR, but that is no longer a thing. Dunno. Don't have much of a read on this slot tbh. Wanna hear from RM since I don't have a good read here.

Paul - still scum

I think that it's most likely Paul, then RM, with an outside chance of osuka.

[skitter30]

Good luck with school, Paul! (School's like a billion times more important than this, so if this is distracting you, maybe replace out?)

im still scum? u mean me deciding to end the jk/tracker debate and hammer my partner when i had an ez out is what scum!me does?

i thought id be atleast a little cleared for that but *shrug*

like deadline was in a few hours i think and i coulda let it slide but instead i hammered. i had a reason not to be there and stuff too

right at spot partner would be to try to get some towncred out of it *smirk*

Tbh, statements like these are making me think you did it to get the towncred.

[skitter30]

The third statement was a joke *facepalm* why i added a smirk at the end

Tbh, the smirk at the end is what's bothering me. I could see scum saying that and lampshading their own attempt to get towncred. Like, I do that sort of thing as scum *all the time* (offsite) because I think it's funny, especially if I think I won't be called out on it.

the first two were kinda serious but i see how u'd see scum!me saying it. I mean I was just explaining why scum!me doesnt really hammer.

I'm actually not sure if you had thought through the possibility of no-lynching.

I'm getting that from here:

why tf would i nolynch? its a guaranteed scum lynch today or tommorrow. if no lynch we lose a conftown and are in same situation

Like it doesn't seem like you'd even considered no-lynching.

So when you say that scum!you doesn't even hammer because a no-lynch is better, I"m not sure if I believe that, because I don't know if you even thought about that option. Like you saying that scum!you would have taken a better option is not such a good defense when I'm not sure you had considered that option at the time.

Also, I kinda accidentally told you what your talking points about the hammer should be, so I'm not sure how convinced I am by it.

Also, this whole conversation is super WIFOM-y lol.

(I hope this post makes sense - I have the flu and currently feel like I'm thinking through a haze of throbbing, spiky cotton balls lol. If it didn't make sense, I'll try again in the morning after I hopefully sleep.)

[skitter30]

Why was tatters scummy?

[skitter30]

I haven't been able to sort your slot properly because she didn't really interact with people. Like, she'd post occasionally and then disappear and never really respond to questions. I don't know if that's per se scummy, or more indicative of the fact that she was new. I mean, she also flaked, so yeah.

Tbh, I'm not sure how to take the fact that you think your predecessor is scummy.

[skitter30]

Lol ik skitters. Its all WIFOM at this point. In all honesty i hadnt really considered nolynching (bcuz im town but ik that wont satisfy you).

Like the reason i never considered it bcuz its absolute shit situation for town. Like if im scum, I woulda considered I think, but town!me doesnt cuz its absolutely down the shitter play as town.

aokay enough of this WIFOM. My final statement is that I never considered a nolynch cuz its simply horrid play and hurts town (aka me). Beleive it or not it doesnt matter.

For the record, I still don't believe this.

I'm lynching within {Paul/RM} today, outside shot of osuka.

I don't like RM so far, but I want to see the rest of his catchup. Still want Paul the most.

[skitter30]

Yay, stalled game.

I'm going to try to get some discussion started:

@RM: Have you read the game yet? Who do you want to lynch and why?

@BV: Have you reread yet? What do you think about Paul atm? How about osuka?

@Osuka: What are you thinking about Paul now? Who do you think is a viable partner for DP?

@Aphix: Who are you scumreading? What do you think about osuka and RM/tatters?

@Paul: Who is in your lynch pool today and why? Who do you think makes the most sense as a partner for DP?

[skitter30]

@Aphix: Is BV in your lynchpool today? I actually think he's like blatantly town and is my biggest townread atm, although I would like to hear more from him.

Would you be willing to lynch Paul?

I'm kinda with you on Osuka. I have a townlean, but I keep getting paranoid about it. It mostly comes from the way he reacted to MWAP (which I wasn't even there for); most of what he said has been kinda NAIf for me tbh.

RM has gone down a lot for me. I think Tatters is either the second or third most likely DP partner based on interactions, and I haven't been overly impressed by RM thus far.

And yeah, I'm dying tonight most likely, so we won't get that much info that way. If we mislynch today, tomorrow is MYLO; I think no-lynching may actually be a viable option at that point, and would probably recommend that.

@Osuka: I actually think DP interacted with/about Paul the most (I have a post about this that I'm in middle of, and I'll post it eventually, probably not till the weekend). They have quite a few sketchy interactions. From what I'm up to so far, you and tatters do as well, and I haven't figured out which of you looks worse through that lens yet. I don't think Paul/DP is PoE at all; there's several things that indicate they may be partners. (Again, in middle of this, will post when I have a chance)

I'm not lynching BV today. My lynchpool is Paul/RM, with an outside chance of you.

I *really* don't think Aphix makes sense as a partner. If you want me to buy this, you need to explain why DP was pushing the slot for most of day 1 and was trying to bus Aphix day 2.

And yeah, there isn't *that* much in his ISO, but I think it's still worth looking at, and I'll post what I have within the next day or two.

[skitter30]

VOTE: RandomMidget

[skitter30]

@Skitter, I got the chance to skim through the game where you and Paul were partners. How would you characterize his scumgame there? Did you think he was more aggressive in pushing mislynches, how did he interact with partners, etc. I skimmed quickly but firsthand information would be more useful here. Also, do you think the things I liked about Paul's play are things he's capable of doing as scum?

Right, that game ended and I can talk about it now. Part of the reason why I feel like he's interacting kinda weirdly around me is because of the following, which he said in the maf thread for that game when discussing the difference between my town and scum games, which I couldn't talk about until now:

Subject: Mini Normal 1931 | Mafia PT

there is a marked difference in ur play between the two games. Like at points last game I got kinda worried cuz u were really pushing me with endless questions and I kinda felt backed up against the wall. You cant just ask questions and be kinda nice about it I guess.

He said this about Space when we were both *town*. I was worrying him there when he was *town* because of how I was pushing him. I don't see *any* of that here. Instead I'm getting a lot of false bravado and fake confidence out of him. I'm not getting any sort of worry or nervousness or paranoia or anything about me. I saw that in Space, and he acknowledged that's how he feels about town!me, and I'm not seeing any of that here.

When I said this in the beginning of day 2, that I wasn't getting any sort of paranoia or anxiety about my slot, he said it was because I was conf!town, so duh he isn't worrying about me, and that's what you (BV) said as well. But that isn't what I was talking about; I wasn't saying I thought he should be paranoid about my alignment. I was saying I thought he should be worried about me pushing him or tunneling him. Like, as town, I can go full-fledged tunnel, and I can win 1v1s. I wasn't getting any sort of paranoia about my tunneling, or fear that I might out 1v1 him and get him lynched. Instead of getting worry about the tunneling/aggression towards his slot, there's been this sort of fake confidence from him, like a false sort of aggression, kinda like he's going out of his way to not seem like he's worried about me, when I know that *does* get worried about town!me, even when he's town. This is absolutely something I can see scum!him doing in an attempt to handle me. He's been interacting just very, very oddly around me, given the above quote.

I think his aggression depends on who else is in the game. I don't think that's perse a reason to scumread him. I don't think anything he's done in this game is out of his scumrange. I haven't read your walls yet, but I'll respond to them as I read through them.

[skitter30]

I'll try to reread tommorrow evening. Im taking the ACT in the morning and may have plans for afternoon and IDK when I'll get time. I have homework to do as well, enough that I may not get a chance all weekend. I shall try thoigh.

Im considering replacing out but id like to see this game through. I didnt expect all this homework though, which is why I originally planned to reread this weekend.

I hope the ACT went well <3

Those tests are annoying and evil, and I hope you did well enough that you don't have to take it again

[skitter30]

@BV, regarding your Paul points.

I kinda want to hold off on talking about Aphix/Osuka/RM until they respond to you first, and I'll do DP after this post tonight or tomorrow.

(I'm doing a BV style post! You've inspired me! Yes, this is scum!me trying to pocket you! lolololol <3)

209, 227 - I think these are weird. I don't know why there's a townlean, and I don't know why Paul's suddenly OK with lynching him. I think the fact that DP is in Paul's lynchpool is actually partner indicative - distancing by claiming that he scumreads him/ is willing to lynch him, but never actually follows up on it in any way.
237 - I don't think this is weird to say to a partner, especially if the partner is trying to dissolve townblocs. Like, I don't think this is weird, and I don't think this is not-weird. It just kinda is, and doesn't really point either to or away from partners to me.
244- I don't think the townreads that you like scum!Paul would find particularly difficult to fake. I think scum!Paul here could be trying to explain to his partner (in a game without daychat) that he doesn't need to scumread him, as he's relatively widely townread.
251- this
263- I feel like this is him trying to set up a mislynch on Aphix after MWAP, especially given how he started on Aphix right out of the gate day 2.
280-281- I don't think these are alignment indicative, but instead are just him getting annoyed at the general gamestate. I think he'd say something similar as either alignment.
315- I still don't see how Paul managed to miss how toxic MWAP became, or why Aphix would want to policy-lynch her for it. To me, the Aphix push seems like Paul is trying to capitalize on Aphix's change of mind about MWAP. Paul's push only makes sense to me and could seem genuine if he isn't aware of the context, and I just don't see how he could have done that; he's the person who seems to be following the game the most besides for myself.
332, 405, 430- I counter with this, this, and this. And for 430, how does DP know what town!Paul would respond to?
361- I think the fact that DP is always in the background of his lynchpool is distancing. Like, he's wiling to lynch him, they aren't partners, right? But he never actually acts on it. And I think scum!Paul is fully capable of making up that Aphix read.
406 - I think he doesn't really know how to respond to me, so he's just resorting to, 'You're wrong. I don't know what else to say besides for you're wrong' because he can't really refute what I'm saying. I think this is an example of that fake bravado I was talking about above.
470- I think he's trying to distract me with AtE because he knows I'm susceptible to that. And I think he's a nice dude (<3) which is why he keeps on apologizing for it.

[skitter30]

@Aphix: I actually think that last post of Paul's was NAI for him; he said similar things in 1797 when he was town.

@Paul: Um, sorry *winces*. Yeah, me and BV I guess kinda bounce ideas off of each other this way. We're kinda negotiating over our reads of you atm. The second wall is directed at BV, and I don't need anything from you there. The first wall on this page has a quote from the maf chat of that mini we were partners in. You said my playstyle was making you worried in Space (when you were town). Why don't/didn't you seem worried about my questions/aggressiveness here?

Also, how did the ACT go?

@BV: if you ever wanna hydra, I'd be interested

[skitter30]

I'm slightly worried (again) that I'm tunneling Paul. He just feels very off to me though.

Osuka is kinda a blank. I have a townlean from MWAP, but that's kinda it. Like, nothing else he's said or done has been particularly AI to me, and I feel like I should have more of a read on him at this point.

UNVOTE:

I dunno. I feel kinda lost atm. I have a scumpool of three, but we only have two mislynches, so I'm not sure how we're going to narrow it down. I want Osuka/RM to post more (I know Osuka is on v/la . . . but that's almost through the deadline I think)

FOS: Paul, RM, Osuka

[skitter30]

Goodbye Paul! I totally understand <3 School is like three thousand times more important than this!

Shoot me a PM when you get back though, so we can play together again

[skitter30]

K, I need more from RM, Osuka, and Paul's slot, but RM's said like nothing since he replaced in, Osuka is v/la till Friday, and Paul just replaced out.

[skitter30]

@RM:

What do you think about Osuka and Paul on pages 11-12 (the MWAP lynch)?

[skitter30]

Sweet! Hi Archwing!!!

Are you scum?

@BV: Besides for the MWAP thing, Osuka's like null for me. Nothing he's said or done seemed particularly AI. I'm going to reread him now I think.

[skitter30]

I'm townleaning RM for 909 and 910 but I don't know why, especially since I disagree with like all the reads.

@RM: What do you think about Paul at the beginning of day2, like where I replaced in? What about Paul and Osuka after Jae claimed tracker (713) through the end of day2?

[skitter30]

Oh, also, would you ever consider lynching BV today?

Archwing, I'd like it if you can answer those questions as well.

[skitter30]

Oh hey. I'm on too lol. I'm going through DP's interactions now, going to go through the you/osuka after if I don't get too tired tonight.

[skitter30]

K, I'm actually reading DP now, which I promised days ago, apologies. I'll look at BV's analysis of DP after.

66 - It seems unlikely to me that DP would start right out of the gate with scumreading ici (aphix), staying on them for most of the day until the MWAP thing happens, and then pushing them day 2. I just don't see why he's hardbussing his partner like that. Seems to me more like he thought this was a viable mislynch. I just don't see Aphix as a partner for DP here.
109- again, going for the aphix slot lynch. I don't like the FOS on Osuka for shitposting; it's kinda NAI at that stage of the game. Could be doing this to distance himself from him. Tatters is a low-effort push. Could be setting up for a mislynch?
136- weird thing to say to a partner, tbh
212- Getting the same vibes here as 109 regarding partners. I don't think hardbussing aphix slot makes much sense. The repeated link between osuka/aphix is kinda funky. I don't like the fact that he called out Paul as being scummy, but then didn't pursue it like anywhere
372- again, if aphix is his partner, he *really* wants to bus him. He's also attacking the person attacking Paul. It did effectively divert attention from the 'skitter is tunneling paul' thing.
393- again, defending Paul
397- Conflicted. This sounds really coach-y, but it's done in such a way to undermine her scumread on him. She also didn't say anything about DP himself. Could be trying to divert pressure off of himself while trying to pocket a newb townie, or could be coaching his scumpartner to make better reads. Not sure.
428- Comes out of the woodwork to defend Paul again. He keeps on doing that . . .
433- Distancing? Tbh, I feel like this is more him setting up his next mislynch.
614- Now defending tatters. Kinda feel like pocketing maybe?
649- Same as above. I feel like this was a pocketing attempt.
699- Weird thing to say about a partner, tbh
768- Not sure what to make of the fact that he 'JK' Paul.

Honestly, there isn't much here. I'm leaning more towards DP pocketing Tatters than partners. There's very little interaction with Osuka. I feel like DP popped in to defend Paul and his weird scumread of Paul is never pursued.

I'm kinda at Paul (archwing) > Osuka >> Tatters (RM), but I'm feeling paranoid about Tatters.

---

Response to BV's version in 849/859/897.

K, actually reading it, I was thinking kinda similar thoughts as you for much of this; I'll comment when I have something of note to say beyond what I said above.

109- Tbh, it's kinda reminding me of how in Space Drixx was proposing esires/HS but went after HS.
212- the fact that Paul kinda undermines townblocs in 237 is also kinda weird for me; could be trying to defend DPs stance.
372- really disagree, especially since he was going for an aphix slot lynch for much of day 1. I think aphix was his mislynch.
393/498- Tbh, this is the most convincing argument anyone's made for town!Paul. But I guess my question is *why* was he definding Paul so hard? Was it to get to the Aphix mislynch, or to defend his partner? I can't shake off the feeling it was to defend his partner, especially since he popped in later to defend Paul when I started questioning some of his posts as well. He also was misrepping Aphix in order to make Paul look better. But this is actually a really good point and I need to think about it some more.
428/429- Dunno. The fact that he showed up here to defend Paul is kinda weirding me out tbh. He's also discrediting me here. Why is he defending Paul so much?
614- Dunno, I think this might be pocketing.

---

For people who want a tldr: I'm kinda at Paul > Osuka >> Tatters based on DP interactions, but BV's point about post 393 is actually very convincing and I need to think about it some more.

I also want to interact with Archwing/RM more.

Only people I'm not considering lynching today are BV and Aphix. I'm leaning towards Osuka atm.

[skitter30]

I'm gut townreading RM atm, but I don't have the words to explain why; I'll try to see if I can figure it out. I think his reads are kinda bad in general (I wasn't seriously proposing a BV lynch, but more probing where RM's reads were at), but I don't think they per se come from scum.

I read osuka's ISO in cosmos, one of his newbie scumgames. I kinda felt like he was more . . . forceful there, I guess. Like trying to direct the game. I don't really see that here as much, but he doesn't seem to have an onsite towngame to compare too.

I actually thought 754 was kinda bad in retrospect. The morning of deadline, only osuka was voting Jae. I wanted to ensure a lynch went through to get information, and I didn't support the Aphix lynch, and I was scumleaning Jae, so I went on Jae as well. BV followed me, and Jae claimed before deadline.

Me, Jae, and BV were discussing our next best option, and we decided to move to DP. Aphix/tatters wasn't around. Osuka followed us there. I kinda feel like he didn't have to vote there either? Like, he could've forced a no-lynch as well. He also seemed to understand what I was talking about when I was talking about no-lynching, could be he thought of it.

DP's claim was blatantly an attempt to get out of the lynch. It's kinda odd that he unvoted there. Especially since the excuse was 'so nobody quickhammers'. Tatters/Aphix were clearly not around, and I think he knows Paul well enough that scum!Paul wouldn't have quickhammered town!DP there. Also, the claim was just really bad, so the fact that the claim prompted an unvote is kinda weird. Could be he was trying to see if he could get people off of it?

And the beginning part of that post kinda feels like scum!osuka was setting up town!paul's mislynch after dp's flip.

@Arch/Aphix, we were either lynching DP at that point or no lynching. After Jae's claim, Jae wasn't an option for day 2. And if DP had flipped town, Jae would have been powerlynched today.

@Osuka: Ciara/BV was never a major lynch candidate day 2. And you pretty obviously unvoted because he claimed while you were writing a post; you unvoted in a p-edit just after the claim. You then kinda hedged a bit on him for a bit until BV pointed out you needed to vote if we wanted a lynch at all.

[skitter30]

I only read his ISO there, but I'm thinking about reading yours next. He had a similar vibe in super vanilla or whatever that game was called. Like, he aggressively pushed through mislynches, and here, he just isn't.

Sorry, I missed your other post. Yeah, you're correct. It doesn't indicate anything about BV's (ciara's) alignment. If she was scum, it means she didn't perform the kill. If she's town, she also didn't perform the kill. All we know is that BV slot didn't perform the kill n1.

[skitter30]

Um, I think it means defending someone? I'm still not sure tbh. Like, I've seen the term thrown around, but I'm still don't exactly get when to use it.

(I'm an SE in this game, but I haven't played *that* much on site)

Osuka was scum in both of those games, and was aggressively pushing mislynches. I don't have a town game to compare this one too, so I dunno. I wasn't actually in any either of those games, and this is just by reading the ISOs after the fact; I'm a lot better with meta that I have personal experience with.

(I have more to say, but I gotta go atm. I'll be back later tonight at some point).

[skitter30]

So skitters, DP also had a scum read on Osuka, but votes someone sheeping osuka, then preceeds to NEVER interact with osuka for the rest of the game. Do you think DP is that good at the game that he decides to set up someone by poorly interacting with them then failing to interact with them the rest of the game? Not to mention it's made worse by Osuka not providing any content this game, which do you think he anticipated that as well?

He had an FOS on Osuka for shitposting in his second post of the game, and interacted with him like once for the rest of the game.

What about Ciara? He literally mentions her *twice* incidentally in his entire ISO? Is he setting her up badly?

[skitter30]

@Archwing.

When I replaced in, I had a meta/tone scumread on Paul, and I found quite a lot about his play incredibly scummy. I'm trying *really* hard not to tunnel the slot thought, so I stepped back a few times and tried to look at the situation objectively. I'm trying to kinda reset with you as well and look at your slot afresh.

But tbh, I'm finding you kinda scummy as well.

My reaction reading NTRP playing was like, really crazy. I would get 2 or 3 posts into a scumlean, and then realize that's me now. I cannot advocate for how he played the game, but it is not how I intend to play the game. He came off much more aggressive and is obviously very emotional and, as he said, "vomiting thoughts on the keyboard." That said, I believe it is good to get out in the open, and let your thoughts be known, which he did. Filling his town slot, I can relate to where he was coming from.

This is kinda pinging me. You're agreeing with the scumlean on your own slot . . .

He's very aggressive and emotional and stream-of-consciousness-y, but that wasn't the problem I was having with him. His tone was incredibly off, like full of false bravado, and he was trying to discredit me, and he wasn't interacting with me the way I'd expect town!Paul to interact with town!me.

Your read of osuka is kinda wonky, and the progression seems to follow
mine.

I'm null on Osuka in 899, you're townleaning him in 915, I go through DP's interactions and think that he's DP's second-most likely partner after yourself (928), you retract the townlean in 931, discrediting the metaread and suddenly he's your biggest scumread with RM, I say he seems kinda different from his scum!meta in 945, and suddenly he's your second-highest townread after myself based on meta in 950.

Can you explain your progression a bit more? Like, can you articulate why he seems different here than in your game? And can you point out some things from *this* game that make you townread him?

And 933 kinda bothers me as well. Like you kinda feel overly defensive of your slot that's been called out as scummy? Like you aren't Paul, but you feel the need to defend the interactions that you weren't even here for. Like, it feels overly defensive I guess?

I think DP saw the wagon forming against him and tried to push it along. makes for a easy mislynch, good on scum.

Who's 'he' in this?

As for his "JK" claim on me, I think this supports my role as town... is dp/ntrp were s/s this would lose the game right here. sure, you can argue WIFOM I suppose but I think that would draw way too much attention to a potential partner.

I dunno if it does. I think DP may have been trying to either distance (imply he was scumreading his partner) or try to promote a townread on him by indicating that he wanted to protect.

DP was also hungover at the time, so I dunno how logical he was being then, or how much he thought that claim through; he may not have been playing optimally.

And you then try to promote the idea that DP has a history of distancing from partners - kinda setting up the idea that he may have been doing the same thing with Osuka.

[skitter30]

@BV: Yeah, basically. His two scumgames seem kinda similar, and I'm not really seeing it here so much.

[skitter30]

Like, maybe I'm just incredibly tunneled on Paul, but both replacements think he's scummy too?

[skitter30]

(Sorry for multiposting, I"m just thinking aloud here).

@RM: What are you thinking of Archwing so far? Who do you think makes more sense as partners with DP? Paul slot or osuka? Who is your ideal lynch atm?

[skitter30]

Spoilered cuz I write a lot.

Spoiler: @BV

: I get what you're saying about DP/Paul, but I dunno. I think we're just seeing that interaction fundamentally differently. Like, you see it as DP utilizing town!Paul's push on town!Aphix to get an Aphix mislynch, and I see DP pushing town!Aphix in an attempt to distract from my push on scum!Paul. I dunno if we'll ever be able to reconcile these views.

I can see where you are coming from with Randomidget. I think his reads are just so different from popular concensus, it didn't seem like he came into the game with any sort of agenda. If scum, he could potentially win by lynching Paul/Archwing and Osuka and didn't need to push against you/me/aphix townreading each other. But then he pushes against aphix which feels more like clueless town.

These are basically the words I didn't have for RM. Like, townreading osuka here is kinda silly for scum!RM to do. I don't want a RM lynch today, I think. I'm basically at the point where I think scum is in {Archwing/Osuka}, and we have two lynches left. I think the likelihood of finding scum in Archwing/Osuka is much higher than RM being scum. Like, pushing aphix here is just a really weird thing for him to do.

and his play around the DP lynch was scummy. I'm talking more about how he tried to deflect the lynch from DP, suggested compromise-lynching my slot, and pushed JaeReed, and basically did anything he could to avert a DP lynch despite having DP in his lynchpool

Still need to work on rereading him, but it will happen, hopefully later tonight

Spoiler: @Archwing

I'm agreeing as to why people would scumlean my slot, given NTRP's play. And to answer BV, this is why I am acknowledging Paul's play. I know that I was accepting a role that was being scumleaned, and I see why. I know to myself that I am conftown, but it is now my job to make you all believe that too, and I think that starts by acknowledging what my predecessor has done, and what I intend to do. I want to make my actions open, and I want to easily be read. Like you said, it's not how town!Paul would interact with you? Well, I do not know how that play would be, although you have given examples earlier, but I want to be able to work with you as town. Since you have never played with me, you do not know how I play, or vice versa. Since my previous slot was filled by someone you were scum reading, I just don't want that around I guess.

Eh, fair enough

If my read on Osuka is wonky, and it follows yours, then your read is wonky too?

As BV said, my problem was less that the read changed and more that it was mimicking mine.

Also, my read hadn't changed that drastically at any point. Throughout the day it's always been:

BV --- strong townread
Aphix ---- townlean
RM --- nulltown
Osuka/Paul ---- these two slots keep on switching places with each other, and my preferred lynch keeps flipping between the two of them.

But the two slots never really move more than a slot up or down. They're always in the bottom two.

In the space of around 50 posts, he goes from townlean -> biggest scumread along with RM -> biggest townread after myself. And the reads change a few posts after I say something about osuka.

I also show my work and explain why my opinion is changing. Viewed through the lens of DP-interactions, osuka looks kinda bad (and you follow this by scumreading him). Viewed through the lens of meta, he looks better (and you immediately follow this by making him your biggest townread).

So, I don't think my read is wonky at all, as I'm explaining why I'm conflicted whether or not osuka is the final scum; he certainly never becomes a major town read for me. In contrast, you just kinda repeat whatever I say.

well, Osuka's 730 735 seem a little more genuine townie to me. it's more of an overall gut feeling I suppose. In my game with him, he was being more aggressive and more forward, blunt. Here he is more dosile, a little more go with the flow, unsure of his decisions...
in cosmos, he was sure about all his decisions. now he lacks confidence. I'm definitely flip flopping on his slot the most.

Noting that the two posts you quote happen to be ones where he's advocating town!paul . . .

my 933, I still think makes sense. Like, DP was trying to pocket ntrp. he found his townie that was was piggy backing. and when jae did the tracker claim, DP was as sure as dead. So, his dying last effort was to claim JK. by doing that, he had to call out who he would have JK'd. why not his townie buddy ntrp? Had my slot been his scum partner, I feel like this would be a terrible play by DP. Thus, I believe this to be a town tell. DP is smarter than that. And sure, he was hungover... but I feel like if my slot was scum, then it would be more instinctively to avoid mention of a scum partner at all, incase of a hangover-induced slip.

Like BV said, you're kinda mimicking him too, which is kinda odd. Like, it's the exact same reaosning BV gave. I still don't get why it's a bad idea for scum!DP to do this to scum!Paul. Like I can think of a few reasons why this would make sense. Kinda bad that you're pushing this as a towntell, tbh. I don't really drink, and certainly not enough to get hungover, so I dunno if that assessment is accurate. I feel like he was just saying the first thing that popped into his head, and it was quite clear he wasn't in any sort of state to explain anything.

My interpretation of DP separating from partners actually more implies a buddy with Ciara (now BV), based on d1 game play. But I need to read into this more. I'm not comfortable making any pushes on this, because of that fact alone.

I mean, the play you're referencing in 951 more closely matches Osuka his interactions with Osuka- he pushes levio early in the game, and FOS'ed Osuka for being a shitposter. He literally doesn't interact with Ciara at all. So, it wasn't an unreasonable to assume that you were comparing it to Osuka's interactions with him.

My reads are more than likely going to be slightly more objective and less sheepish by construction.

This is kinda bad considering that your blatantly sheeping my osuka read. Also 'by construction' is kinda bad, implies that you're constructing them, and that they aren't natural.

I dunno. I'm trying *incredibly* hard not to be tunneled and to look for things that would point to town!Paul/Archwing, but I just don't see it.

[skitter30]

I think the deadline is on Monday, but like at 4:30am for me, and I'm not going to be here Friday afternoon - late Saturday night, so I kinda want to start coming to a consensus.

My preferred lynch is Archwing (sorry ). I'll probably compromise on osuka if I have to, but I'm not really feeling it. If osuka does end up getting lynched and flips town, please note that my dying read is that Archwing is scum.

VOTE: Archwing

[skitter30]

Hey, happy cake day

I think I explained where I'm at in my last two posts, but if you wanna talk to me about any of it, go for it.

[skitter30]

@BV:

I just reread day2, focusing on Osuka, and these are my thoughts, and I think I kinda agree with you?

I don't see why pressuring Pepper for content was a bad idea when it apparently wasn't a bad idea to bully MWAP into posting content.

This is kinda ick tbh.

I think it's weird as heck that he's fine lynching two people that I know to be town in his lynchpool (JaeReed and Ciara) but not fine lynching the one person who we know is scum (Pepper).

Tbf, he was 'fine' lynching Pepper, and was on that wagon; the lynch would not have happened without him. I'd characterize his interaction with the DP wagon more as 'reluctant' than 'not fine'. That being said, out of Jae, MWAP, Ciara, and DP, he is noticeably more reluctant to lynch DP than the rest.

MWAP- 229 is incredibly weird given his read on MWAP in 225.
Jae - advocated for their lynch for much of day 2
Ciara - Like, I don't get why Ciara/DP are on different levels in 544, and I don't know why Ciara in 572 was his compromise lynch instead of Dp.

Osuka's posts around the Jae / DP claim were kinda weird:

693- again, reluctant fora DP lynch because of lack of content, but willing to lynch Ciara for similar reasons
696/730- your placement on this list is kinda weird tbh. I don't like the justification that it's becauase you replaced Ciara. The strong townread on Paul still puzzles me
747- I guess who was his preferred lynch at this point, given Jae claimed tracker?
748- This bothered me at the time, but I didn't have a chance to discuss it given the deadline. Kinda undermining my question about scum!DP, because obviously town!DP is townreading Paul and doesn't want to lynch him.
754- really, really ick, which I talked about already in 945
761- Again, that reluctance to vote.


However, given all that, I note that Paul did very similar things:

DP is always on the periphery of his lynchpool/suspect pool, but never the main lynch candidate/suspect (227, 349, 447, 562- he literally put himself in his lynchpool over DP, leaves DP out of his lynchpool in 618, suddenly remembers DP is a thing again 737, doesn't get why we believe Jae over DP in 775, implies he can't be DP's partner because he put him in his lynch pool a few posts earlier in 778 )

It's literally like he forgot he needed to consider DP for much of the game, but in 778, argues that he shouldn't be considered DP's scumpartner because he was in his lynchpool out of nowhere 50 posts before.

---

Other assorted things:

[*] I think Osuka's strong townread on Paul is kinda weird but makes sense if he was trying to pocket him
[*] I think Paul/DP could have been arguing the 'skitter's reads are crap after her catchup post' thing because I put them both in the bottom of my readslist
[*]921 - 924 are all kinda ick and trying to undermine you
[*]943 - kinda ick because we were never close to lynching ciara there. However, I'm also thinking that this indicates that he has some sort of bias against Ciara, which is why he was more willing to lynch her way back when. second paragraph is kinda gross because it feels like he knows the unvote was a big mistake and has to defend it.
[*]Osuka's town might be different this game because of v/la, although it looks like cosmos also occured during a period of v/la.

I feel like there's more, but I don't remember what else I was thinking atm. I'll make another post if I remember.

I don't really have any reasons for why he might be town beyond the MWAP thing, which isn't all that convincing really. He looks bad. I just think slightly less so than Archwing's slot.

I am in no means opposed to an osuka lynch today, but I'd prefer Paul's slot. That's basically where I'm at. If Osuka happens, I think Archwing should always be tomorrow's lynch.

Also, I think osuka comes back from v/la today, so we can talk to him.

[skitter30]

@archwing:

I'm just quoting your replies to make this more manageable. In response to 980

i reread my iso regarding osuka. I guess that makes sense, like i see what you're saying about how my osuka read has been flopping around, coincidentally aligning with yours. so, my first read came after my first check in of the game, after reading like maybe through d1? That's where my meta read came in. When I finished reading, I came back and said I retract that townlean because I don't think it was justified to townlean him on that info alone. I have still argued that as a point, to try to have people understand the difference in his tone, but I don't townread him on that alone, and after going through all of d2 and now d3, he lost townpoints for me.
again, i see the concern about sheeping the conftowns read and honestly didn't clue in until now that that's how it was playing out.

Can you explain why he's suddenly a townread again? Like, how did he go from 'losing townpoints' to being your biggest townread?

so, fair point about osukas 730 735, where he advocates for town!paul. not why i picked them, but it's there and I can't ignore it. however almost any post of osuka's that has some content also contains town!paul. like osuka was pauls biggest support here. so I don't think I can post an objective quote from osuka to show a "tone" without it have town!paul in it.

I mean, osuka has 135 posts. I open his ISO and ctrl+f for 'paul', and I get 83 hits. That implies that at least some of his posts are not about Paul. So, I dunno if this is such a valid argument. I did however glance through his ISO with this argument in mind, and you are correct that quite a few of his serious posts *were* about Paul, but I wouldn't say that 'almost any post of osuka's that has some content also contains town!paul'. That's a bit of an exaggeration imo.

we clearly have different opinions on the fake JK claim from dp onto ntrp. you cannot see how i view it as s/t, i can't see it as a s/s play. i've tried to walk you through my reasoning, but you and BV don't see it. I don't know how else to explain it. Like, it just blatantly is calling out a partnership.

OK I guess? I don't really see any reasons that it wouldn't be the case. You just say it doesn't make sense but aren't saying *why*.

my "by construction" explanation comes from me being a physics student, and it's terminology that gets used alot. it has made its way into my speech now. literally, i understand why that now sounds fucky. sorry, that was bad.

Sweet. I was a physics major until partially through my sophomore year; I switched to applied math at that point because the physics professors kept on handwaving the math I'm starting my senior year in like a week

But yeah, it sounds bad. I agree. It could be an idiom that you use just because of your major, but it could also be an unconscious slip because you're scum who has to construct artificial reads. I don't think we'll actually be able to determine which of those it was though

[skitter30]

@ali

In the incredibly unlikely event that I survive the night,

v/la wednesday - sunday

.

[skitter30]

@BV: I'm basically at:

You and aphix are town. RM is likely town. I'm not sold on it, but considering we have two lynches and Archwing/osuka to deal with, I don't wanna lynch them. I'm OK with either osuka or Archwing, would prefer Archwing. If one of them townflips, I believe the other one should always be the lynch tomorrow.

I dunno. Both of them look incredibly bad atm. Even just from there posts on this page. I want to lynch both.

[skitter30]

@archwing:

Again, just quoting your replies in 991 to keep this manageable:

Primarily, he's a townread due to meta points. You, Aphix, and iirc, BV have pointed out to me that meta points aren't exactly valuable. So, forgive me, and let me come back into this objectively. I will re read MWAP and DP lynch moments, and see what comes of it. But, nothing specifically from this game alone shouts town!osuka, but it's this game in the context of other games.

I get that, but this doesn't look so good when you initially townlean him on meta, move him down to a scumread after reading this game, and then move him back up to a strong townread after I say he doesn't look that bad based on meta, but you can't point to anything specifically from this game.

I mean, osuka has 135 posts. I open his ISO and ctrl+f for 'paul', and I get 83 hits. That implies that at least some of his posts are not about Paul. So, I dunno if this is such a valid argument. I did however glance through his ISO with this argument in mind, and you are correct that quite a few of his serious posts *were* about Paul, but I wouldn't say that 'almost any post of osuka's that has some content also contains town!paul'. That's a bit of an exaggeration imo.

Fair, and honestly it probably comes from a place of laziness. let me look into this as I re-read osuka. I'll try to come back in a day-ish with a better read.

KK. I'm always going to go back and check claims like that though

as for the JK claim, I feel like I have said why. I think that DPvNTRP is SvT because of the implications if it were SvS. I suppose a proof by contradiction scenario? I look at it via were I scum, how would this situation play out? pretty bad. Since DP knows that I am not scum, he can make this play. This would not be a play to his scum partner, because it puts that partnership out in the open, in a reference-able post. I've never been scum before, but I feel like this would be a terrible play, by putting a paper trail on that partnership.

I mean, it's basically WIFOM on our end, and can be looked at either way. The fact that you were pushing it as a towntell earlier is kinda what's bothering me here tbh.

@skitter applied math? wtf is wrong with you. i should vote you based on that alone ffs. lol. Math is what is kicking my ass... quantum, EM... the math just sucks.

Math is the fun part :p Quantum was evil and kicked my ass, but I somehow managed to pull a decent grade out of that class. Still not sure how I did that lol.

p-edit: Hi BV

[skitter30]

Aphix is kinda abrasive and his posts are kinda meh too. But he's never scum with DP so he isn't scum here. This is kinda like how I was saying Paul was town because he couldn't be scum with Drixx. Aphix isn't a DP partner so he isn't scum.

Osuka kinda seems out of it, and seems kinda obsessed with your slot, I don't know why. I do think he feels different than his scum meta, but he looks kinda bad regardless of that. He was just kinda floating along for a lot of the game, and his retalitory attack against you is kinda bad. I don't remember in the ISOs I read if he ever actually was attacked as scum, so I dunno if his natural reaction is to lash out at the person scumreading him. It's kinda OMGUS. He might just be town and annoyed and thinks that you are actually misrepping him here, I dunno.

And I agree with you on Archwing, except that he actually played in one of those games lol. The RM push is bad. The 'I can't quote town!osuka without pulling quotes that promote town!paul' is bad. The 'I'm town because of DP's fake JK thing' is bad.

I'm feeling kinda conf-biased with Archwing tbh too, which is why I kept on trying to step back, but every time I did, Paul/Archwing posted something sketchy :/

[skitter30]

Me? I said that's what I want to do like ten times lol, even as recently as 998. I'm just slightly worried that it won't happen that way, especially since I'm almost for sure the night-kill here and I won't be around to push that.

That's why I'm pushing Archwing first. But if I really can't get people to follow me to Archwing, I'm OK with osuka, so long as people *strongly* consider archwing tomorrow.

And yeah, I'm gong to asleep at deadline lol, but I'll be around for much of tomorrow.

[skitter30]

And part of the reason is that I expect Osuka to be more likely than Archwing to slip away in 3-way lylo if I'm dead after you considering his winrate as scum so far.

You and aphix think he's scum. You'd just need to convince RM, and I don't think osuka can convince RM to no-lynch there.

I guess I'd feel better about it if I knew exactly what RM's reads are.

@RM: Can you give us a readslist please?

I've been trying to get Paul slot lynched since I replaced in so I'm not confident it will happen without me tbh.

[skitter30]

Do you think my points in 1003 make sense?

Yeah, I actually agree with you. I couldn't really find an analogue for that post in that mini. I don't think a post like that is outside of his scumrange though, and it doesn't really outweigh like everything else his slot has done.

I thought Paul's Aphix push was really bad actually, and kinda felt like scum!paul felt like he could take the initiative to lead pushes given the activity in this game, especially since his partner was kinda lurking.

[skitter30]

Going to asleep now lol. I'll check it out tom.

[skitter30]

@osuka: I'm sorry to hear that you aren't enjoying this I liked playing with you!

I actually think those last few posts come from town. There's like zero motivation for scum!osuka to start a BV thing here when he can just go along with Archwing and push RM tomorrow.

I strongly disagree with you about BV tbh.

[skitter30]

I think, atm, the vc looks like this:

osuka: Aphix, BV
Archwing: me, RM
BV: osuka

Not voting: Archwing.

I would vote osuka over a no-lynch, would prefer archwing. I'm not voting BV here ever.

We have ten hours.

[skitter30]

I don't think that's a viable endgame plan for scum!osuka though. Why does he push BV instead of RM here? I don't think BV is ever getting lynched, so this isn't helping him, even if he forces a no-lynch.

[skitter30]

I think RM is much more lynchable than BV is.

His last post, the way he just kinda went 'fuck it, I'm voting BV' kinda makes me think town who is voting for their scumread and doesn't care how it makes them look.

Or it can be a scum AtE thing and I'm bad at reading that.

But I think that makes him look really bad. I'm having a hard time seeing scum!him do something that is just so obviously bad when it doesn't really get him anything? I'm having trouble seeing what scum!osuka gains from that, but it makes sense to me as frustrated!town.

Like, I'm kinda seeing it as a last hurrah from town voting a scumread before they replace out.

Also, I saw archwing online earlier but he didn't post.

Also, you're not in a NA timezone, right?

[skitter30]

Huh, thats three of us lol. I thought you were in Europe or something.

Yeah, I'm going to be asleep at deadline, but I'll change to Osuka before I head to sleep if I have to. That's still only three votes.

It doesn't seem like osuka will be around. Archwing I'm not sure but I wanna say EST. Wherever he is, he was definitely online before and hasn't posted and hasn't voted. RM is not in NA (UK maybe?) and I dunno if he'll be around before then.

[skitter30]

I don't know if a lynch is possible given the current votes and people's likelihood to be online depending on their timezone.

[skitter30]

skitter, it's not that i'm not enjoying the game - it's that i'm swamped with work and school and life, and I just don't have the energy i'd like to put to make this game what it could be. I also really enjoyed it while i had the time, and i don't plan on leaving ms anytime soon

i am going to be around but i think archwing is town so i'm not willing to lynch that slot. A no lynch isn't catastrophic, considering mafia didn't get a kill n1 because of 1bp. A mislynch is prob worse but feel free to talk me out of that

First paragraph: I hope real life calms down for you

Second paragraph: really kinda scummy. Why is archwing town? Why aren't you willing to lynch him? A no-lynch is bad. The only thing it accomplishes is getting me dead, and everyone alive is in the exact same spot tomorrow minus a confirmed townie. My death doesn't even give any useful info since I'm the obvious night-kill here. Why are you willing to no-lynch instead of mislynching?

P-edit: go to sleep and feel better!

[skitter30]

*Thinking*

I think, given the current gamestate and reads, 5 player day 4 is a lot more advantageous for scum!osuka than 4 way mylo.

4 way mylo kinda forces scum!osuka to go against BV (I don't think he wins this though . . .), or scum!archwing to go against RM, depending on the lynch. At least the choice is kinda clear; it'll set up an obvious conflict and kinda force two slots against each other. If osuka flips town, I think attention turns to archwing/RM. If archwing flips town, attention turns to osuka/BV/RM. But it makes the lynchpool smaller at least.

5 way, without clearing one of osuka/archwing by flipping them, leaves all the sketchy people alive. Like, no one's lynchpools get smaller, and we're basically in the same position as today. Still way too many scummy people to deal with, and the osuka/BV thing will fester, as will the archwing/RM thing, and we won't have enough time to lynch everyone.

I don't really see a way that benefits town, tbh, but I see it benefiting scum.

[skitter30]

I don't really get why town is pushing a no-lynch here tbh

[skitter30]

Why? Paul's meta is something me and skitter discussed pretty extensively so "Paul is town based on meta" sort of ignores all of that. What of Paul's game comes across as his towngame to you? Because right now I have it down to either you or Archwing so you're either wrong or you are scum that knows he's town and I'm trying to figure out which it is.

The truth doesn’t happen to agree with what you “have down”, so you might want to reevaluate that

Also, I didn’t just say Paul’s read was meta. Nice misrep though
He was genuine and made good points to advance the game in kind of a reckless way that’s very telling of town Paul

You seem to be full of shit and that’s the last thing I’ll say before I go to sleep

And this post is kinda weird?

If Osuka is town, and so is Archwing, than who is scum? According to osuka, BV is. That first line is a rather odd thing to say to someone you think is scum. You don't tell scum to reevaluate? Town needs to reevaluate. Scum doesn't have anything to evaluate.

First line feels more like someone trying to convince someone else (a townie) that their reads are off, and is less like someone telling someone else that they're scum pushing a false narrative. It doesn't really match with the fact that he's pushing scum!BV.

I'm not sure if that made sense though. I can try explaining that again if necessary.

Second part is saying that Paul's read isn't based solely on meta, but the next line is basically a meta read.

[skitter30]

BV, what do you think about what I said in 1045? Does that make sense?

[skitter30]

Yeah, it kinda annoys me too.

VOTE: osuka

If a lynch happens and this flips town, my dying read is archwing.

[skitter30]

Also, we haven't had a vote count in like three days, but I'm pretty sure that was L-1.

[skitter30]

This is around the time where I worry I got pocketed. I'm *pretty* sure scum!you didn't pocket me here, but I'm getting kinda paranoid now. i'm pretty sure this is town!you after I misread you last time, but I have a tendency to get paranoid of my townreads.

p-edit: this was incredibly ironic given the post above this one lolololol.

but yeah that's kinda strange too.

[skitter30]

Yeah, that's basically what I think too. Even last time, I read a couple of your scumgames, and I started second-guessing it cuz you're more involved as town and I don't know if you can fake the analysis you're doing.

So, like I said, *pretty* sure not pocketed here.

[skitter30]

You said you read through Osuka's scumgame. Did you read Archwing's town ISO in it? I'm curious to hear whether you thought his play here is different?

Also, just for the record, he feels different too. He was more . . . inquisitive there I guess is the right word? I dunno. More analytic? More probing? He doesn't feel the same as town!him in that game, but I have trouble putting these differences in words sometimes. Neither of them match the respective metas we have.

I don't think the archwing here feels the same as his town!meta.

I'm not confident that osuka matches his scum!meta.

I will note that I was in neither game, and I"m a lot better with meta I have first hand . . . .

But it is kinda weird that neither seems to match tbh.

I'm still not confident osuka's flipping scum here.

[skitter30]

Good game everyone!

@Paul, if you read this: Sorry for tunneling you

@BV: Town MVP, you were awesome I really, really like playing with you, and love the way you analyze the game, let me know if you wanna hydra at some point

@osuka: you were really great. I really wasn't considering you until close to the end of this last day. I hope you feel better and that things calm down for you.

@ali: I like the FOS thing. It lets me indicate I'm suspicious of people without having to vote them; I tend to take forever to figure out who I wanna vote for. It also enables me to single out more than one person; a vote is limited to one person.

@archwing: I'm going to answer you in a separate post

[skitter30]

@archwing:

skitter, if you are still alive, do you mind elaborating?

Also, I'm getting confused with all this meta. Like, you guys make paul reads based on meta. then I make an osuka read based on meta. and it feels like at some point it's a good read, and at other points its a shit read. all this meta shit seems really inconsistent.

The truth doesn’t happen to agree with what you “have down”, so you might want to reevaluate that

Sometimes I see something, but I don't have the words to explain what I'm thinking, so it gets kinda jumbled, apologies. So I'll try again

Basically, this line was what finally convinced me to just go with the osuka lynch. It just didn't seem to come from a townie mindset. If I'm town, and I think you're scum, and you're pushing me, I would be thinking that you're scum trying to push a mislynch. ie If I'm town, and I know I'm town, and you're pushing me and I think you're scum, I'd be thinking you're pushing a bullshit narrative in order to further your agenda. I wouldn't tell you to reevaluate your reads, because I'd be thinking that you fabricated them. You can't reevalute things that you fabricated.

In contrast, osuka was trying to say that he was town and that BV was scum. He was telling BV to reevaluate his reads, but town!osuka shouldn't be expecting scum!BV to reevaluate his reads, because he's pushing him as a mislynch. Like he was trying to negotiate over BV's read (because BV caught him as scum), instead of saying that BV was scum pushing a mislynch (if he really was town who believed that).

Like, he was acting like he knew that BV was wrong about Paul (only scum would know that) and he was telling BV to reevaluate his read, which is the wrong reaction for town to have when they think scum is pushing a mislynch on them. Does that kinda make sense?

And yeah. I'm pretty decent with meta, but I really messed up with Paul (um, sorry Paul), which I was why I was stuck on your slot. Meta reads aren't that great, especially when I don't have first hand experience. That's why I wasn't that confident in the you/osuka metareads. I guess it should be used to supplemant a read, instead of forming the basis for it (like I did with Paul). Like, BV was town by play first and foremost, and it helped that I knew that this is how he plays his towngame.

I thought you played really well, and that you did a good job defending yourself and your slot You were very good at explaining yourself and following up with people, and I appreciated that you made the game more active I hope I get to play with you again!

[skitter30]

REally glad this lynch went through. No lynch or a mislynch today probably means I get lynched before end of game. So good work guys.

I don't think you would have gotten mislynched, actually. I wasn't letting it happen while I was alive, and I was pretty sure that after I died, BV would stick with the {Osuka/Archwing, small chance of RM} thing.

Okay I did things all of the pts and actions are out

Thanks

hi gg

sorry i suck

You didn't suck. You were awesome and played really well

Skitter, gamesolving with you was awesome. Beats the hell out of tunneling each other any day! You really made it difficult for scum to get mislynches through by stopping the Aphix mislynch D2 and then continuing to defend Aphix and townreading me even when Osuka was pushing back. That made it difficult for him to get a foothold and gave me space to push my scumread. Game would have gone down very differently if you weren't here. And we should definitely hydra sometime soon!

Thanks! I never really doubted my townread of you. I got minorly paranoid last night, but I wasn't taking it seriously because you were town here like 99% of the time. And I'll PM you

I dunno. I find larger games intimidating. I like 9 player games, and I think minis are just about the biggest gamesize I can handle right now.