[Mini 1835] - Everything Is A Lie Mafia 4 (Abandoned)
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I'd refrain from voting the IC. I agree the confirm town message by the mod is suspicious, but lynching him probably won't help the town. In the first game of this series the IC was a Jester, and in the second it was a Lyncher target.-
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In post 25, SirCakez wrote:Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lyingSo you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?
VOTE: SirCakez-
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"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.
Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.-
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Let's see if this is trueIn post 42, The Counsel wrote:or to follow any voting restriction players decide.
The Counsel must vote itself at once-
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Let me rephrase: Apparently means that he did not stop to consider that his role could be a lie.In post 48, Leather and Lace wrote:
How do you know what he means?In post 47, BNL wrote:"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.
Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.
Are you inside his head?
Why would you assume that without asking for clarification?
~Leather
I admit this is a weak point, as I can see the arguement for it meaning "its what I'm told and know, but may not be true". My vote isn't completely serious; I don't have really strong reads, and it's early game, so I RVS on really weak reasoning. This is why I voted without clarifying.-
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Okay, now I'm confused.
I assumed by clarification, you meant with the poster (SirCakez), and not anyone else (Flames).-
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Why is it icky?In post 63, Rylai and Lina wrote:BNL voting a double hated claim and asking the proxy slot to vote himself seems Icky
Ircher who is your lynch target?
~Lina
1. Lynch threshold is 8, double hated means it's 6 for SirCakez, and if we have the same thing from last game we have 5. Even then, 1 vote is still very far from a lynch.
2. That was obviously a joke.-
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Dayvig isn't a negative utility
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What do you think of 44?In post 70, SirCakez wrote:
By apparently, I meant that my role says I am, but I'm not sure if I actually am or not.In post 47, BNL wrote:"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.
Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.
This should have been obvious, others noted it too.
VOTE: xyzzy
This is confscum-
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Um, what?In post 78, SirCakez wrote:
I don't think it's a good reason not to lynch himIn post 76, BNL wrote:
What do you think of 44?In post 70, SirCakez wrote:
By apparently, I meant that my role says I am, but I'm not sure if I actually am or not.In post 47, BNL wrote:"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.
Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.
This should have been obvious, others noted it too.
VOTE: xyzzy
This is confscum
They'll have to go at some point
Did you even read my post? In both previous games lynching the IC would lead to a 3P win.-
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First was a jester, second was a death miller (real) IC which was also the lyncher's target. I have no idea what you define as scum.In post 85, SirCakez wrote:
I mean that's possible but the IC being real doesn't fit the game theme at all.In post 82, Rylai and Lina wrote:
Your 95% chance has been heard and thrown at the nearest garbage can. its a new Everything is a Lie game. maybe he is fucking with you to think that is a lie like this games meta.In post 81, SirCakez wrote:Considering how ridiculously bastard this game is, I don't really see an issue with Vedith not pushing Yume over the miller claims
You have to remember that wgeurts is trying to fuck with us
P-edit: I think it's more like 95% chance he's scum. ICs have never been legit in Everything is a Lie games.
It was still a scum lynch, no?In post 83, BNL wrote:
Um, what?In post 78, SirCakez wrote:
I don't think it's a good reason not to lynch himIn post 76, BNL wrote:
What do you think of 44?In post 70, SirCakez wrote:
By apparently, I meant that my role says I am, but I'm not sure if I actually am or not.In post 47, BNL wrote:"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.
Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.
This should have been obvious, others noted it too.
VOTE: xyzzy
This is confscum
They'll have to go at some point
Did you even read my post? In both previous games lynching the IC would lead to a 3P win.
Who cares if a 3P wins as long as scum gets lynched-
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No, I do not control any part of the Counsel, or at least I don't know if I do. I definitely don't have a private ability to do so.
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It seems that some people misunderstood this post. The first point was for "voting a double hated claim" only and point 2 was for "asking counsel to vote itself" only.In post 72, BNL wrote:
Why is it icky?In post 63, Rylai and Lina wrote:BNL voting a double hated claim and asking the proxy slot to vote himself seems Icky
Ircher who is your lynch target?
~Lina
1. Lynch threshold is 8, double hated means it's 6 for SirCakez, and if we have the same thing from last game we have 5. Even then, 1 vote is still very far from a lynch.
2. That was obviously a joke.-
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Huh? L&L was talking about something NAI, so why would it be a LAMIST tone?In post 157, Ircher wrote:
Wow, this sounds kinda like a LAMIST tone.....In post 152, Leather and Lace wrote:Because me signing these posts are about as ridiculous as me signing posts under main account.
~Leather-
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No you did not...In post 158, Leather and Lace wrote:
Didn't I just tell you I don't care about your assumption on the scum's nk?In post 155, Ircher wrote:
Didn't I just explain why not to dayvig the IC? Pay attention; lets not screw ourselves, 'kay?In post 153, Leather and Lace wrote:
If The Counsel can be day vigged, I'm cool with that.In post 151, Ircher wrote:Don't dayvig the IC.
If the IC is not on the same team as mafia, mafia will prob. attempt to shoot them.
The IC should live for a day.
If they can't, xyzzy needs to go.
~Leather
~Leather-
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How do you know you can be "added" to the Counsel?In post 228, Leather and Lace wrote:As far as I'm concerned, we are at an impasse.
There are two conclusions from my perspective... add me to the counsel so I can judge it for myself since I am the one demanding answers, or kill it.
I don't care which.
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Ah OK, I missed that.
I'm pretty sure the Counsel is comprised of all dead players plus Wgeurts himself. This is what happened in the previous games of the series.
So if you want to join the Counsel, you have to die (That's my theory, anyway)-
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Vote for the towniest players -> they get lynched -> they get into the dead thread (make livings join Counsel) -> they control the Counsel -> they get Counsel's voting powerIn post 209, The Counsel wrote:The counsel can semi prove that its vote won't be a problem like the way your describing it starting day 2 forward.
Vote for the tawniest players in game (or choose a pool or other ways for that if you can) and I will hand over the voting power to them as well - (I don't know if this works completely in the way I'm talking about it) But I can make other livings join the counsel.
Stop being so tunneled vision, please.-
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UNVOTE: SirCakez
VOTE: shos
Since the owner of the Counsel manipulator vote didn't claim, they're likely scum. I think that shos' recent posting regarding the Counsel (363 and 422) is just faked confusion/faked "I'm not involved", as his reveal by the counsel was already hammered.
In light of this, 117 also suggests Shos' possession of the double vote.-
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If not for the Counsel reveal, Ircher would be my strongest scumread.
Firstly, he has changed his vote too much for my liking.
Next, 311-312 seems like a potential scumslip
Third, 333 case on L&L is extremely weak. Of twelve points, only one is scum, and almost all are null.
Fourth, 348 and 362 vote an anti-town townie? Why would you vote someone who you believe to be lynchbait than actually scum? (I know Ircher has elaborated this in later posts; I don't buy them)-
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Ircher, answer this please.In post 258, BNL wrote:
Huh? L&L was talking about something NAI, so why would it be a LAMIST tone?In post 157, Ircher wrote:
Wow, this sounds kinda like a LAMIST tone.....In post 152, Leather and Lace wrote:Because me signing these posts are about as ridiculous as me signing posts under main account.
~Leather-
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What don't you like about my posts?
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That's obviously implied; what's scummy about my posts?In post 433, KuroiXHF wrote:They're scummy as fuck.
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Your "Counsel voting Counsel is suspicious" looked you were setting me up for a mislynch and feels linked to the possession of the manipulator vote.In post 488, shos wrote:seeing 437, I'm thinking the counsel is probably managed by townies after all.
VOTE: L&L
for now. BNL's posts look like shit, lol. At gamestart he seemed to cause the counsel to selfvote, and now he's trying to say my posts fit as counsel control, which I reaelllly don't see. I'll give him the option to explain.
still reading up-
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Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.
If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former. The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.
@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:What do you disagree about this?-
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The Counsel is likely controlled by scum (if shos is town), so we reduce the scum's voting power?-
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^The Counsel lying about Shos manipulator vote-
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Hmmm...In post 531, Rylai and Lina wrote:Why should a proxy account which is getting yelled at to die because of all of the old bad memories give out a false information which will be the doom for it?\
Why should it lie if its in hands of scum?
Good question I did not think about that.-
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What motivation do scum have to fakeclaim, instead of claiming most of their role and snipping out the scummy parts of their role?In post 543, SirCakez wrote:
What he did claim sounds fakeIn post 520, Leather and Lace wrote:
You are aware he's not full-claiming, yes?In post 519, SirCakez wrote:
The abilitiesIn post 506, Leather and Lace wrote:
Which part? The abilities or last sentence? Or both?In post 505, SirCakez wrote:I mean I don't have any hard evidence that it's fake but it just sounds fake
The quote everyone has, I know
I have a REALLY bizarre role and "tracker with a few 1-shots" doesn't compare at all.
So anything that I say is wrong because you think I'm scum? Did you bother reading the rest of the post at all?
That you're scumIn post 522, BNL wrote:Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.
If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former. The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.
@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:What do you disagree about this?-
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I did consider the possibility:In post 596, Ircher wrote:VOTE: BNL
Shos is being scummy as can be, but BNL is playing scummy and lining up lynches w/o considering the poss. that shos was framed by the mod.
My Shos v Counsel thing is also independent of my Shos scumread.In post 522, BNL wrote:Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.
If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former.The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.
@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:What do you disagree about this?-
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But this was my RVS vote, so...?In post 600, Ircher wrote:
This is just super nitpickey, to the point of unnecessarily so.In post 45, BNL wrote:In post 25, SirCakez wrote:Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lyingSo you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?
VOTE: SirCakez
What makes you think that the Counsel vote is submitted publicly?
This triggered the zero weight vote on The Counsel.In post 49, BNL wrote:
Let's see if this is trueIn post 42, The Counsel wrote:or to follow any voting restriction players decide.
The Counsel must vote itself at once-
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This isn't a false dilemma. IIn post 605, Ircher wrote:
False Dilemna --> We dont have to lynch in those 2.In post 522, BNL wrote:Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.
If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former. The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.
@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:What do you disagree about this?proposedlynching in Shos/The Counsel, and personally picked Shos; never said that they were the only lynch options.-
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That's funny because this possibility never occurred to me until you mentioned it; only possibilities for me were you lying, Counsel lying and Mod lying.In post 622, shos wrote:Btw re: your guys discussion on occams razor
I bet the counsel answers no to my question. Occams razor applied here would simply be a scum messenger. That is so easy.-
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Don't exactly have a third scumread, but I'll just say that I believe my wagon is heavily pushed by scum.
Of the five people,THREEof them are lurkers whose only game related content is their vote on me (except Davsto, and even then, no other reads or even pushes). Ircher is a top scumread.
SirCakez is the only one I have mixed feelings on (getting townvibes and scumvibes): On one hand, he seems to be legitimately scumhunting and making pushes; on the other hand, some of his thought processes aren't smooth (no, not the "apparently" thing, I've gotten over that; there are other problems)-
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Occam's razor means simplest explanation so requires the least thinking; but your suggestion of scum messenger did not come across me, which is definitely not simple in my opinion.In post 633, shos wrote:How is that funny?-
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Are you even reading the game?In post 636, shos wrote: Also which five(?!) are against you? I only remember like 2,not including me-
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Lack of empathy is scummy?In post 655, Ircher wrote:
I'm not surprised. Zero empathy coming from this slot.In post 632, BNL wrote:Top two scumreads are Shos and Ircher
You need to reply to 629.-
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Why not? Wifom?In post 656, Ircher wrote:
Ok, why would shos move the vote onto themselvrs?In post 647, The Counsel wrote:We saw shos changing the vote again and the vote is now on himself ...
@Shos No messenger is involved. The result is related to the voice of counsel.
Thanks for changing the vote cause its now proven that mod pre-planned framing "Shos" by lying to the voice of counsel whenever the real one who controls that vote change it or Shos is really involved in this.-
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In post 652, SirCakez wrote:
I remember playing with BNL a while ago and he was lynchbait-y, yeah.In post 629, BNL wrote:
But this was my RVS vote, so...?In post 600, Ircher wrote:
This is just super nitpickey, to the point of unnecessarily so.In post 45, BNL wrote:In post 25, SirCakez wrote:Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lyingSo you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?
VOTE: SirCakezRVS means random.
How is a vote with reasons given random?In post 639, Leather and Lace wrote:Not really wanting to lynch BNL because he just strikes me as a kneejerk scumread, which usually winds up flipping town.
I could really go for some shos blood, though.
The above post reallly sucks though.What made you change your read? I hadn't posted in between.
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Then why would Farside plan her dayvig shot, as in 499? Definitely not an RVS-only thing.In post 685, The MM wrote:That post is old, like, random-posting-stage old.
And here we go: everything is a lie, proven true again. If the players get in on this, how's town supposed to win, huh?-
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But you and Farside are the same slot... Do you seriously think that the mod will give different information to you and your predecessor???In post 689, The MM wrote:
I don't recall saying it was limited to this game. Besides, wgeurts lies, that's what he does. He's the liar of MafiaScum. WGEURTS LIES LOLIn post 687, Rylai and Lina wrote:
where was this proven before in this game?In post 685, The MM wrote:again
Could I fathom? I'm not farside. Ask them -- oh wait, discussion about ongoing games is forbidden.In post 686, Rylai and Lina wrote:Why would anyone lie about being a day vig in that manner?
My personal idea would be some sort of mod lie (aka fake role) that got to farside, but not me.-
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No opinion on the MM?
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1) Ok, it's not a completely RVS vote, it's one whose reasoning is semi-serious but not 100% serious and very weak, hence fit for RVSIn post 691, Ircher wrote:
1) Didnt feel like an rvs voteIn post 629, BNL wrote:
But this was my RVS vote, so...?In post 600, Ircher wrote:
This is just super nitpickey, to the point of unnecessarily so.In post 45, BNL wrote:In post 25, SirCakez wrote:Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lyingSo you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?
VOTE: SirCakez
What makes you think that the Counsel vote is submitted publicly?
This triggered the zero weight vote on The Counsel.In post 49, BNL wrote:
Let's see if this is trueIn post 42, The Counsel wrote:or to follow any voting restriction players decide.
The Counsel must vote itself at once
2) Anythings possible.
2) I guess I'll forgive you on that point; you weren't in the previous EIAL game to know that the controlled Counsel vote was submitted privately-
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I'm assuming NL = BNL?In post 692, shos wrote:I dodnt think farside was a dayvig to begin with lol.
D1 shit like that happens all the time.
Since flames wagon doesnt seem to be viable, and same withL&L, im joining the NL wagon. This is L-1.
VOTE: bnl.
This is not a counterwagon-ahoy vote, in case youd think that.
If this isn't a counterwagon vote, then what is it?
No opinion on the MM either?-
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Huge scumread on the MM.
MM is certainly not a town dayvig, otherwise he wouldn't have responded in that manner. The only way he could be town is if farside was lying, which I heavily doubt; that's a really far-fetched gambit for town (or even scum) to fakeclaim dayvig for just a single reaction.
On the other hand, MM scum makes a lot of sense; what I feel is that he's scum with only daykill ability, and he's trying to deny it but farside took a different approach with it. Farside's dayvig claim had issues too: she was blindly following all the neg util players to claim their role in their first post, but dayvig isn't a role that you want to claim in your first post. Trying to use this to cover up for your shots makes sense.-
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Actually, is MM Jester possible? After all, he's said to have been following the game (which I feel is an OOC true thing), so he would have seen Farside's claim. Furthermore, the last line of 689 is just too ridiculous.-
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That's out of the point, the point is that the dayvig claim wasn't an RVS only thing.
Same slot gets same info. Period. There is nothing to argue about.@698: We're the same slot, not the same person. Farside was likely trying to scare scum, but I'm not playing to other people's gambits, even if I'm replacing into their slots. Also, since it's Everything Is A Lie, there might be shenanigans of the sort. I'm not putting anything out of wgeurts's reach.You were so blatantly scummy that I find it suspicious when people just ignore your posts. I mean, you claimed differently from your own slot.
Farside claimed otherwise. The gambit by neither town nor scum means it probably didn't happen, and you're lying. Convince me farside lied.@703: You seem to conclude I'm not town, just because I said I'm not a dayvig? You know that's opposite to what I said. Besides, if that gambit was farfetched even by scum standards, why are you slapping that on me?
Your shot is publicFor your daykill-scum hypothesis: if that was the case, any semi-intelligent scum would have done the kill fast (as in RVS-fast) as to lower the chances of being identified.
So maybe you're not a Jester after all... so you're scum?@704: I've been reading the game once, kind of as a pastime, because I was ready to replace on short notice for [our dearest / that damn] mod wgeurts, but not expecting or willing to enter the game biased. I wasn't playing on the sidelines and taking notes, much less keeping tracks on every claim.-
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BNL Micro Madness
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Setup spec? Role ishing? What?In post 707, shos wrote:Whats with all thsetup specs,bnl? What sort of rolefishing is that lol
I never take dayvig claims seriously
And currently no real read on that slot, farside was reallinactive and i didnt read the post above me
If Farsides claim isn't serious, why did she persist it?-
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BNL Micro Madness
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Okay, maybe you're scum.
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BNL Micro Madness
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So you admit you weren't reading the game?In post 723, SirCakez wrote:
yesIn post 716, Rylai and Lina wrote:
siriously?In post 715, SirCakez wrote:Did MM do something I missed?
qq-
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BNL Micro Madness
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There's like 2 days left to deadline?
Why the hurry to achieve a lynch?-
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BNL Micro Madness
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Why didn't you post post-hammer and only wait for a mod post (which was very likely a lock)?In post 748, xyzzy wrote:oh-
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BNL Micro Madness
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Now that I've some breathing room...
In post 666, Leather and Lace wrote:Why couldn't you keep your mouth shut for a few hours?
Notice how this sequence of events is very similar to L&L's recent hammer on me?In post 667, Leather and Lace wrote:
Likewise.In post 665, Flames682 wrote:I would still prefer shos
VOTE: shos
In retrospect, I think that 666 was fake and 664 was intended to be a real hammer on me, but when it failed it was painted as a reaction test.-
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BNL Micro Madness
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VOTE: The MM
We have slightly more than one day left, can we swing a wagon here?-
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BNL Micro Madness
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Looking at the context of the posts it was obvious that it was a reaction test. Not claiming that it was a RT doesn't change anything.In post 760, Leather and Lace wrote:
I never claimed it was a reaction test.In post 757, BNL wrote:Now that I've some breathing room...
In post 666, Leather and Lace wrote:Why couldn't you keep your mouth shut for a few hours?
Notice how this sequence of events is very similar to L&L's recent hammer on me?In post 667, Leather and Lace wrote:
Likewise.In post 665, Flames682 wrote:I would still prefer shos
VOTE: shos
In retrospect, I think that 666 was fake and 664 was intended to be a real hammer on me, but when it failed it was painted as a reaction test.
If you get another vote, I'll try again.-
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BNL Micro Madness
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