Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Hello, hopefully I will be able to keep with this gameShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Oh wait we havetwoMiller claims out the gate?
We're going to need some immediate flavor claims.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Catching up. Got a feeling this will be a regular occurrence since I have trouble now following the game during working hours.In post 122, Alchemist21 wrote:In post 105, Wraith wrote:Oh wait we havetwoMiller claims out the gate?
We're going to need some immediate flavor claims.
Which if the two would you rather flavor claim first?In post 106, Nero Cain wrote:^
Wilky, methinksShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Don't like the Hider claim. Not necessarily a fake claim but it was completely unprompted and doesn't seem like a smart move for a town player at all.
It either gives scum an easy target, or helps them narrow down the field of PRs. Or both.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Character name?In post 211, wilky wrote:
The role is Commenwealth Miller with something else too. I didn't really want to full claim but there is more to my role.In post 208, davesaz wrote:
Is yourIn post 193, wilky wrote:Flavour Claim:
One of my abilities is that I am a prototype synth, my win condition is to eliminate the institute but upon investigation I will show as sided with the institute.rolemiller? Or just the investigation results?
Fair's fair. My role is Commonwealth Miller, and for flavor in the "abilities" section I'm a former institute scientist who will investigate as Institute.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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I feel like this entirely depends on personal interpretation of WIFOMIn post 229, Nero Cain wrote:Well, I mean I felt like Dave was scummier than Wilky here and I haven't really changed my mind so....what else do you feel like I should be doing?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Daily catch-up
I agree in that I find it strange that he wanted dave to nameclaim but when I asked the same of him before dave he specifically withheld his own name.In post 282, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Am I the only person here who's SRing Wilky not because of what they claimed but for the way they did it?
However I do find the possibility of a double Miller extremely possible considering this theme.
Feeling the sameIn post 292, Ouroboros wrote:Please be specific on which votes you're referring to?
Sure, that's true, but given all that like we got Willy to l2 almost effortlessly and this Ramcius push has gotten far less traction.
I also feel like this is less a case of rubbing people wrong and more very specific scummy things that he did.
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I tentatively think Maria vs Nero is TvT. More confident in a townread on Maria.
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Keep in mind that if we assume there have been no fakeclaims and that there are 5 scum in this game, then there is only a pool of 10 players that have strong positive PRs.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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ewIn post 312, Tchill13 wrote:
well i TR this slot because i agree with most of these.In post 301, Ouroboros wrote:Townreads
Tchill
Davesaz
Alchemist21
Hebichan
Our slot obvobv
Lazy townreads
DunnstralShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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In post 321, ManWithNoName wrote:VOTE: Kaede
Either she's just trolling, or she's very carefully posting as much as she can which is NAI. Show, don't tell.
Hate this exchange from KaedeIn post 323, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Oh GIF's not around, now that comment ended up being kinda anti climatic.
I guess I'll have to prove my townyness later.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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EBWOP: Yes I'm aware that was an obvious IC softclaim.
Not only do I hate the claim, as it was not only poorly-timed and well after we were generally agreed that no one else should claim, I still echo ManWithNoName's original sentiment that Kaede isIn post 330, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:Ok, since ppl dont seem to get the memo ill just hard claim IC.
There, now you can stop worrying about me.stillall sound and fury rather than substance.
But I suppose I'll find out soon. If she is genuinely an IC this should have waited until a much better moment to drop.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Ugh, just a terrible move.In post 356, GuyInFreezer wrote:Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Okay trying to keep up with my thoughts at the moment.
Assuming no fakeclaims, with the IC confirmation that leaves a 9-player pool for PRs. Since we have an unknown but presumably significant number of VTs in that pool as well, this means either a very weak town or at least one fakeclaim among the Millers and Tchill.
Right now I'm comfortable with wagons on wilky, REALMEN, Tchill, and Ankamius
About to review the latter two.
Spoiler: Ankamius Quotes of Note
Yeah, kill this with fire.
Spoiler: TChill Quotes of Note
This too
Pretty split on this. VOTE: TChill because Ankamius made something resembling an effort just now.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too
Very suspicious postIn post 235, Ventriloquist wrote:Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.
It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Don't see anything in the verylazy wagon whatsoever, they are just lurking and that is NAI on D1Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Almost forgot, might as well elaborate on why I find this post very suspicious, because why notIn post 427, Wraith wrote:Yeah I could get on board with a Vent wagon too
Very suspicious postIn post 235, Ventriloquist wrote:Is it not possible Tchill has a jester role of some sort? Not suggesting an insta win but I don't see how his claim could be helpful to town otherwise.
It wouldn't surprise me if Wilky has done research and is relying on the miller claim because he realises the host has done this before, especially since he chose to highlight that it wasn't far fetched for there to be 2 millers again. As Alchemist said though, this is relying on some pretty niche assumptions so I'm not buying it just yet.
He uses some ratherabsurdleaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.
What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.
Simultaneously, he attempts to cast suspicion on Wilky with a similarly absurd leap. What's more likely? That Wilky is claiming Miller truthfully in a game run by a mod who apparently has a habit of these kinds of setup quirks? Or that Wilky is deliberately playing off mod meta to mount a roundabout fakeclaim gambit, with a claim that is by its nature instantly considered suspect by default?
I don't like that whatsoever. And after we get the VC I might consider switching my vote right now.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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I'll stay where I am for now but I'm definitely down to switch to a Vent wagon if it gains traction compared to a TChill wagon.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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My problem is more the dichotomy between the player he is respectively defending and attempting to cast suspicion upon. TChill's claim was, at least IMO, unquestionably more suspicious than wilky's. Yet he is really stretching to find reasons to excuse TChill while suspecting wilky.In post 433, Dunnstral wrote:
Scum players don't play up scumhunting on day 1? I disagree., I don't think the explanation for your read is a good one.In post 430, hebichan wrote:I'm not scum reading manwithnoname that hard right now, he seems to be scumhunting, which I don't think many scum players try to play up this early day one.
In post 431, Wraith wrote:He uses some rather absurd leaps in logic in two separate cases to paint a narrative picture about these two players, deliberately ignoring Occam's Razor in favor of stirring up WIFOM.
What is more likely? That TChill is running a Jester gambit? Or that TChill is fakeclaiming? TChill's was by far the least believable claim so far, and the most awkward (considering Kaede is mod-confirmed). By bringing up some a longshot possiblity, Vent is indirectly mounting a soft defense of TChill.
Absurd leaps in logic aren't more likely to come from scum than town. If anything it's the opposite. While you may be correct, I don't think you make a good point here. Town is allowed to soft defend people too, by the way.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Speculating 5 scum (or more accurately, 5 anti-town) based on the size of the game. But as Dunn pointed out, I might be overestimating, I haven't played in a while so I'm rusty with the typical ratio of scum:town.In post 452, Ramcius wrote:
why assume no fakeclaims and 5 scums?In post 412, Wraith wrote:
Keep in mind that if we assume there have been no fakeclaims and that there are 5 scum in this game, then there is only a pool of 10 players that have strong positive PRs.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Impossibear if you read my post there and those were the questions you felt were unanswered in it, I really don't know what to say. I really don't care to break down every little aspect of my grammar and syntax.
And also when I made the post GIF was editing in the VC. It was up after I submittedShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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JFC stop blowing up the thread with five pages of dick-waggling while I'm at work
VOTE: VentShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Really don't understand the players fixated on a D1 lurker lynchShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Oh, so it's gonna be one of those games
AKA, literally every game I'm inShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Bunch of bullshit really. Lots of "I'm the better player." "No, I'M the better player."In post 683, Alchemist21 wrote:Catching up now. What happened to add 8 pages to this game?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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You know it's a good sign for the town when players are more concerned with figuring out hydra/alt identities than scum.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Come at me like I'm fucking Baron NashorShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Yeah, there's only so much I care to comment uponIn post 707, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
Are you even reading the same game?In post 703, Wraith wrote:You know it's a good sign for the town when players are more concerned with figuring out hydra/alt identities than scum.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Oh, I don't care if I get lynched.In post 738, Ventriloquist wrote:You're reading me as scum but you think this whole don't lynch me because I always get lynched card isn't dubious?
Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Not really sure why but I don't see Impossibear as particularly scummy and I think Ouro's fixation on them right now is unhealthy.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Isn't it extremely reckless to start hardcore finger-pointing at scumbuddies before a flip?In post 765, Ouroboros wrote:I don't have a fixation on them? They seem to have a fixation on me though.
I make it a 'policy' of lynching people who are very strong players who hard defend scum flips that I feel like ought to have been obvious.
Consider it a mix of burden of proficiencying the both of them and having specific issues with the manner of the defense, feeling like they were deliberately using untruths in the defense, etc. Is it literally impossible that they decided to confbias and derptowntunnel them? No. I don't think that either of them are incompetent enough as scum to ever make a play that I can look to and say yeah this is never going to flip town. But I think that in a bigger picture point of view I have more than enough to go on in terms of thinking that scum ventrilo -> scum bear.
You said we were done talking, I'm done talking, I'm not making a case for your benefit.
The answer is yesShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Wilky with some good takes there
Yeah MWNN has been slipping fairly quickly in my eyes for a while now, too.In post 773, wilky wrote:I still want to lynch Ram. MWNN comes a close second in here and if MWNN flips scum then I think that implicates ventriloquist.
In post 441, ManWithNoName wrote:I got tired of following a town read rather than pursuing my own reads, especially when the Ventriloquist read came down to "He's inactive".
Just because you're obvtown, doesn't mean you are always right, RC. You should have learned that by now.In post 448, ManWithNoName wrote:I agree Ventriloquist needs to start posting, that being said, I think Realmen's posting has been to the point where he is just avoiding posting anything that can be AI. The last time I voted off of someone that was doing that, I got burned, that's why I am pushing Realmen.
Ventriloquist has enough votes without me to pressure him into voting, anyway.
Like, fuck, this is a large anyway, if I were scum with Ventriloquist, why wouldn't I vote him for the town cred anyway?In post 546, ManWithNoName wrote:Fine, whatever.
VOTE: Ventriloquist
I don't like being a leader anyway
This sequence of posts is really bad, especially when you consider that his chief scumread, verylazy isIn post 555, ManWithNoName wrote:Lynch pool
Ventriloquist is not my top choice, but I could see him as scum. I'm pretty much just giving up on my stand to try and be assertive by voting him.
Verylazy, as explained earlier, I see scum motivation in posts where this slot is not sorting but looking to lynch TChill and Wilky.
Nero is a gut scumread, and I'd still lynch there.
Ramcius is also an outlier right now and I feel like I had a reason to scumlean on him, but I need to go back tonight and reread to see what was there thaat I would want to lynch.
After thought, I am still not a fan of trying to sort out miller claims here, and if Ourobouros is town reading Tchill, I'm not going to be enough of a force to really push that. So, that's why I switched off of them.lessactive than Vent, and his scumread on him is pretty much entirely based on one post early in the game.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Both. I have an uncanny ability to get a player or two to tunnel me D1 based off something completely innocuous and unexpected, no matter what my alignment is.In post 780, Ouroboros wrote:
Got some of these vibes from multiple town games now: going to go see if this comes up as scum.Wraith wrote:I don't know. I really don't care, literally anything I do on D1 gets me killed eventually, so why bother?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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I'm pretty god-awful D1, I get better as the field narrows and I can base deductions on concrete flips.In post 784, Ouroboros wrote:I tentatively very slightly read Wraith as town but I've seen him perform in town games in ways that I would never misread him and he hasn't performed near to that level yet.
Which is another way of saying do more Wraith.
Yeah, Vent is scummy as shit. But your read on verylazy is based on practically nothing, and even when I reread his ISO she actually came off asManWithNoName wrote:If one post is scummy, it's scummy. I mean, I base my reads on what is here. If someone is not posting much, I base it on what they have posted.
I did not like the posts from Vent earlier today, so if my vote wasn't there they would be now.
The way I read it, he's saying the Ouroboros, Realmen and I are a scum team because we voted together. I'm the only one he even bothered to do a half-assed case on.
If it takes me getting lynched for people to actually lynch Ventriloquist and verylazy, so be it. I don't have an ego too big to take a mislynch day 1.morefavorable to me than before. The only remotely suspicious thing in there is that verylazy expressed belief that there could plausibly be two Millers and later expressed willingness to wagon wilky. But since I'm also guilty of that, that's NAI.
My problem with you is that you were reluctant to vote for the very scummy Vent compared to verylazy and made some pretty weak excuses for that reluctance, and only switched to Vent when pressured by Ouro. Vent, of all people, actually made a good point in the following post before going off into a scumtastic finger-pointing direction:
In post 737, Ventriloquist wrote:
You're literally like a broken record - how rudimentary is this logic? Impossibear doesn't agree with you so Impossibear must be scum? In what world would a mafia aligned player defend another mafia aligned player so damn hard, knowing that they would both go down together?In post 521, Ouroboros wrote:Okay so I'm locking in here
Ventriloquist is lockscum
Impossibear is lockscum
MWNN is probably scum
VOTE: Ventriloquist
MWNN has not given substantial reasons for any of his votes, he has simply changed it several times and given some vague reasoning which never really materialises - once more he always changes his vote back to whatever Ouroboros is going with, despite voting elsewhere briefly (to create the illusion of actually having his own voice)- Given the way in which MWNN and REALMEN instantly rallied around you, it wouldn't surprise me if you're all scum together. Ouroboros 'probably' reading MWNN makes perfect sense here, making it seem like MWNN is on his radar as a bad guy (thus distancing himself) yet never putting him at the top, therefore not having to consider lynching him.
Taking the saying of the best defense is a good offense to a whole new level.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Also yeah that OMGUS is fuckingawfuland this is from someone who has been practically ignoring Ramcius so far.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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lolIn post 979, Ouroboros wrote: Wraith: The post that they made about not making preflip associatives is almost certainly a scumclaim in a Ventrilo!town universeShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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JFCIn post 923, Ankamius wrote:I think day 1 scumlynches are a net negative for town unless they're way ahead of where they're supposed to be relative to the amount of information they have.
This is not that type of situation at all because this Vent-push has drowned out 80% of the game. Even if Vent does flip scum, where does that get us, exactly? Limited information based on associations towards that slot and very little else directly, and less indirect information because this push was brute forced through.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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There is never a situation where a scumflip is bad.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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The scumflip was not the thing that was bad, but the town's later play.
Frankly, suggesting we not lynch a particular person because "Day 1 scumlynches are bad for the town" ismassively suspiciousShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Are weIn post 1065, Ramcius wrote:guys, if you want PL lurker, lynch Wraith/Tchill, Dunn/very is just daed weight and not much info to gain from themreallystill going to fucking call me scum after that Vent flip? Fucking really?
And frankly while I'm certain Ouro is town now it's rather bizarre behavior that they pushed so hard for a Vent lynch and then once they finally got itimmediatelyturned against the people who had pushed for it with them the most.
VOTE: Ank
This or TChill. But Ank's insistence that town should not lynch Vent because "D1 scumlynches are bad" is insanely suspicious.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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And if we want to engineer a wagon where Impossibear can fulfill the quest requirements, I'm down for that too. Just tell me what to do.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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I am not on board with a wilky lynch at allShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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You seriously SR wilky over TChill?In post 1166, Ouroboros wrote:i tr 3/3 of your scumreads wraith
Also I need to ISO Dunn when I'm less angry and take care of business, he might be a wagon I can get on.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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I don't like Dunn's votes or his hostility to Ouro, but other than that there's not much to go on.
Reviewing hebichan too because IIRC her votes have been pretty bad. I'll review wilky too to see if Ouro is right.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Maybe I'm getting tunnel vision, but considering Ank did come back with a flood of posts about an hour and a half after this one from Alchemist gives me more bad vibes about Ank.In post 396, Alchemist21 wrote:The train of thought from Impossibear on Wilky and Ram is a lot like my own. Can you talk to me more about the Maria/Nero interaction? Because we're seeing opposite things there.
I'm giving Ank a few hours to deliver on that promise for content and if they don't I'm moving my vote back there.
Agree with the Alchemist TR as wellShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Yeah I have had bad vibes about hebichan for a while now. Really bad voting.
In post 149, hebichan wrote:
You can confirm scum if you hide correctly.In post 121, Tchill13 wrote:
correct. So its useless as far as helping town goes from what i can tell.In post 117, Alchemist21 wrote:@RCWhat did you think was actually scummy about Wilky's reactions?
Claims aside I don't see where he's actually been scummy and I don't know why people are wagoning him beyond the claim.
@TchillSo you're saying you don't die if you hide behind scum?
Anyhow, moving on.
VOTE: alchemist
I don't like you fishing for tests.In post 202, hebichan wrote:In post 179, Ouroboros wrote:I'm derailing wagons that aren't necessarily on scum, yeah, I guess?
Also I'm shifting gears, Hebichan scumgame in Play The Hits was not quite what I was expecting and this game is just weak from her regardless of alignment.
It's no longer something explicitly in her scum meta fmpov so I'm going to put Ramcius as my #2 pick for scum and just say Hebichan is still null and needs to do more.
For who in particular?if Tchill is town, and wilky scum this is pretty telling tbh.
I think Ramcius for sure, a few others are maybes
I literally haven't been able to post this game much because of work, please wait for me to actually get in this game more. geezus.
I'm actually invested in this game and looking about.
I don't think tchill is scum, and I don't like how alchemist was fishing for roles.
I don't see scum unprompted claiming hider.
Weak as hell reasoning for the initial Alchemist vote, then hopped onto a Ramcius wagon growing in popularity with no stated reason. But it comes later and is also weak as hell:In post 204, hebichan wrote:VOTE: Ramicus
After the catchup, yes.
Though tbh last game I played with ram he gladiated town.
---In post 228, hebichan wrote:
Shoulda said after my catch up, sorry.In post 207, ManWithNoName wrote:
Who's catchup?In post 204, hebichan wrote:VOTE: Ramicus
After the catchup, yes.
Though tbh last game I played with ram he gladiated town.
I still think ram voting himself was scum waffling.
EwIn post 399, hebichan wrote:I'm following my day one sheep nature.
I don't have the will to be a town voice.
What are you contributing though?
Extremely bad look getting cold feet on what eventually was a scumflip wagon. She parked on dave the rest of the day:In post 679, hebichan wrote:UNVOTE:
Why did you join on the same wagon with real men, man with no name.
She's voting Impossibear right now, which I think is an extremely opportunistic attack on an easy target.
VOTE: hebichanShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Switching off Ank for the time being because this was a fair enough point to put a seed of doubt in my mind that has been bothering me:
I'll probably revisit Ank's end-of-day play later.In post 1071, Dunnstral wrote:
That's not something scum says about their partnersIn post 1069, Wraith wrote:Ank's insistence that town should not lynch Vent because "D1 scumlynches are bad" is insanely suspicious.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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1. Good shot even if it didn't pan out, MWNN would have been one of my top suspects going into this day had he been alive.In post 1236, Impossibear wrote:One more thing, before I check out of the thread for the day.
I don't think we were shot last night, which means that there is probably a full protective in the thread. Whoever that is should not claim today. They should target between Jungle, Kaede and RC tonight.
This is because we are a bulletproof gated vig. Talking about the specific gating of our vig is not useful for town, but we shot MWNN yesterday. Additionally, our role PM STRONGLY implies the existence of a scum protective/kill evasion role. Hence, Tchill is probably scum.
Sorry for claiming without permission, ETL, but I really don't think we were the nightkill last night. In any case where we weren't this is crazy high positive utility for town.
2. So we are trying to engineer a Ramcius wagon to L-1 now and then back off? Do you want me on this wagon? Just say the word.
3. Totally down with lynching TChill today.
4. You being a major PR also really intensifies my scumread of hebichan, as that vote on you from her looks even worse now.
VOTE: TChillShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Did you read Impossibear's last post?In post 1241, Ouroboros wrote:like tchill I'm explicitly not locktowning but there's so many better lynches here dear lord
And if your question about townreading wilky was directed at me, it's because I believe the claim, distrust the early wagon that went on him, and his recent interactions today.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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It's truly baffling that you're still scumreading me and as long as you do you will have a grossly distorted view of this game.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Frankly is a plausible possibility but I'm not willing to lynch wilky based on that at this time. Until I know TChill's alignment - which I strongly believe is scum - I'm not willing to move on wilky. If TChill is scum then that IMO makes it very likely wilky is town, as I see no reason for two scum to fakeclaim back-to-back right out of the gate. If TChill is town,thenI will strongly consider lynching wilky.
PREDIT: I'm gradually carrying that out right now.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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EBWOPIn post 1248, Wraith wrote:Franklyscum with Miller fakeclaimis a plausible possibility but I'm not willing to lynch wilky based on that at this time. Until I know TChill's alignment - which I strongly believe is scum - I'm not willing to move on wilky. If TChill is scum then that IMO makes it very likely wilky is town, as I see no reason for two scum to fakeclaim back-to-back right out of the gate. If TChill is town,thenI will strongly consider lynching wilky.
PREDIT: I'm gradually carrying that out right now.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Okay let's bring up some observations from re-reading wilky.
* References to the structure and wording of the Role PM is NAI, but the fact that wilky was emphasizing it as a way of proving his claim gave me bad vibes and still does
* Again, being so reticent about his nameclaim while demanding a nameclaim from dave is very odd
* He's been fixated on Ramcius throughout the game and it derives from an OMGUS, which is bad. I also think his later reasons for suspecting Ramcius are very weak and reaching. Generally I am leaning town for Ramcius, especially since he was targeted early by Vent.
* Weird flip-flopping on Ank between D1 and D2. At the end of D1 he was saying Ank had collapsed under a small amount of pressure, but D2 he is defending Ank. Significantly, he is defending Ank firstly from Ramcius.
* It is exceedingly obvious which character wilky is claiming to be now, which makes me question why he has been so reticent to just nameclaim. While that character is very recognizable and would be a go-to Miller claim, it is weird that, if scum, wilky would not simply nameclaim. It's a believable character for a fakeclaim, and I don't really see an advantage for scum!wilky to withhold it. Additionally, since I am now locktown on Impossibear and they clearly know something I don't related to wilky's flavor, this is a significant reason why I am hesitant to lynch wilky today, even in the wake of a re-read that has worsened my opinion of him.
So yeah, my opinion on wilky has worsened and I no longer view a wilky lynch as completely out of the question, but I still prefer to lynch TChill.
@Dave: Nameclaim please?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Trying to sort my reads. Green = locktown, Blue = lean town, Red = lean scum, None = Null
- Wilky
- hebichan
- Kaede Akamatsu
- MariaR
- Ramcius
- Ankamius
- Ouroboros (AnonymousGhost + RadiantCowbells)
- Tchill13
- Dunnstral
- verylazy
- Impossibear (EspeciallyTheLies + Jingle)
- davesaz
- Alchemist21
- Nero Cain
- REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE
Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Yeah, pretty confident in townreading Ramcius.
Rethinking my Ank scumread. Now that I think about it, defending a scumbuddy so blatantly, especially when they proceeded to hammer later, seems out of character for a scum player. It would guarantee suspicion on them the next day, and they would know it.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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@Ram: ThisIn post 1296, Impossibear wrote:@Ram - I think you've misunderstood those quotes. It reads to me like Wraith is saying he's assuming none of the claims made at the time were false, not that the mod failed to provide safeclaims at all.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Just a heads-up why I've disappeared and probably will be low-activity until Monday, this week has been pretty hellish and I'm chronically exhausted right nowShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Oh come on, I'm more fucking expendable than Ram. Pretty sure literally no one in this game townreads me.In post 1466, Impossibear wrote:
I'm really very sorry, but you are. If it helps sooth your ego, I'd be arguing we should use me if I wasn't a PR.In post 1432, Ramcius wrote:i was thinking, i really don't like this "Ram is expendable" attitude,
If scum decides to lynch you to prevent the cop on me, the positive equity is fucking insane for town. You haven't obvtowned by any means and you're not on anyone's I've got a hard-on for this lynch list (unlike Wilky), so there's no one who could conceivably weasel out of the quickhammer.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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Oh for fuck's sake, what the fuck happened last night
Did you guys seriously add 15 fucking pages in four hours?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
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- Joined: May 29, 2010
- Location: Central Party-Ruining Committee
Well since the first five pages of what I missed is basically RC throwing a tantrum and inexplicably going against literally the entire rest of the player base, I'm really not in the mood to continue that, and I'm going to assume there's nothing I need to care about between 60-75.
Am I right or am I wrong?Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4168
- Joined: May 29, 2010
- Location: Central Party-Ruining Committee
But I want to actually lynch TChillIn post 1933, Kaede Akamatsu wrote:
it is now the tchill thing.In post 1932, Kokichi Oma wrote:So are we doing the ram thing or noShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4168
- Joined: May 29, 2010
- Location: Central Party-Ruining Committee
Holy mother of god why have you accumulated 40 pages in like three daysShow"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4168
- Joined: May 29, 2010
- Location: Central Party-Ruining Committee
Holy shit you guys are moving this way too fast for me to keep up.
Are we lynching me now? Have fun with that, completely forgetting that I was up Vent's ass through most of D1. Yeah, totally went from zero to hardcore bus in no time at all.
Makes sense.Show"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a communist." -Helder Camara
"For myself, I want no advantage over my fellow man, and if he is weaker than I, all the more is it my duty to help him." -Eugene Debs
"Our demands most modest are - we only want the earth!" -James Connolly-
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Wraith Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 4168
- Joined: May 29, 2010
- Location: Central Party-Ruining Committee