A warlock, a werewolf, and a vampire... [Game Over]

[Lady 8]

Shall we, dear Prince?

Getting specific names to stick in my mind is hard. I agreed with bits and pieces that Cat Lady 5 and Seal Lady 6 said. Specifically Cat Lady 5's idea to pair the IC with third towniest and Seal Lady 6 suggesting Scarf Man may be hiding behind setup spec, of which his was the weakest

I think Gent 9 and Lady 3 just fell in love with each others beautiful faces there but I want to say Lady 3 is town

Gent 9 I do not immediately scumread as some have. Maybe he just really wanted that particular dance! My judgment on him will likely wait

[Lady 8]

Gent 9, so your intention is to deny scum information by getting paired off early and not commenting on things? You're probably going to need to elaborate a bit.

[Lady 8]

Likely an earnest attempt to read Gent 9 by Lady 7. i like that

We might have an all town pair here but I cannot be for certain. They do not look bad to me.

pedit: aaaaand they're divorced

[Lady 8]

I want to dance with Sans 1

Pretty please?

[Lady 8]

for real though I have some people saying that optimal play is town should be paired with town and some people saying optimal play is scum should be paired with town and thats getting me confused.

I think the IC specifically shouldnt be paired with the towniest lady. Apart from that, dunno where you got that

[Lady 8]

I don't want G4/L6 together because they'll be my paranoia wolf pairing for the entire game.

I quite like that seal lady 6. I dont know about G4 yet

[Lady 8]

I would like all the Gentleman to say they want to dance with me even if it's a lie.
pedit: Both of you seem very competent and a lot more serious than the rest of the thread and that kind of style always makes me think deepwolf. More a me thing than either of you but I'd probably vote you guys at one point if I ran out of wolf reads. Assuming I am not left to die in the first dance

I can definitely see this. More so with the soccer G4, he gives off strong vibes but I havent gotten any read on it

im not convinced l6 is town even though she's making good posts

Hmm. Perhaps. She does make good posts though.

63 is TMI

Wait hold it, you got a scumread on me from 63 while not realizing that three other people had posted the same thing?

Were you looking at my ISO for this?

Yes

lol

[Lady 8]

Apparently it was a joke but if everyone sheeped and called 1 person town I figured wolves was either TMIing or they were really town since it's unlikely wolves to just be auto towncred

I think if a wolf got townread early because of a strong entrance, the other wolves would also probably join in on the consensus of townreading their wolf buddy.

Disagree because all wolves are scared little cry babies who don't want to look bad on their partner flipping.

Come at me you wolves

Yeah but like, if

everyone

was doing it, then it would hurt them a lot less. I think I agree with soccer g4.

[Lady 8]

I want Gentleman 1 to sweep me off me my feet

[Lady 8]

Hmm. Perhaps. She does make good posts though.

spooky skeletons 8 why do you doubt l6

Just on the basis she seems strong. I think it was lady 1 I agreed with on the point I dont want Lady 6 with someone I also think is strong and hard to read

[Lady 8]

gentleman 8 and lady 8 is a fun pairing

!!!!

[Lady 8]

(I forgot who Gent 8 was so I checked and that's the prince !)

I'd ask you for more explanation but I'm also still secretly hoping I can catch Gent 1s eye

[Lady 8]

that reads to me that you are scum reading l8

Oh

I am less excited now

[Lady 8]

I think it was lady 1 I agreed with on the point I dont want Lady 6 with someone I also think is strong and hard to read

why not, isn't it good to let strong players to figure each other out?

Do you think the private thread is going to make it easier to solve people? I would have first thought it makes it easier to get pocketed, since you already had that initial trust to create the link

No I think I'd just spend the rest of the game being paranoid of them. Just an early prediction!

[Lady 8]

How do we determine who is and isn't a strong player in a game full of secret alts?

feeeeels

Doesnt Gent 4 seem like he means business to you, for example? I am either crazy or am just explaining this poorly. Possibly both

[Lady 8]

Pick whatever you like for my name. I'm not sure what word other players would describe me with.

I want to dance with Sans 1

Pretty please?

Have we met before in a previous life? Is that you, Undyne?

Perhaps! I am a ghost of sorts. No connection to this fish lady you speak of, though

[Lady 8]

How do we determine who is and isn't a strong player in a game full of secret alts?

feeeeels

Doesnt Gent 4 seem like he means business to you, for example? I am either crazy or am just explaining this poorly. Possibly both

Gent 4 is giving me big chad energy, I do agree with you.

I just disagree with the principle of "good players = good reads". Because playing around individual players is not as difficult as what you think no matter how good they are.
Mafia is a game with variance, lots of good tells will only work a certain % of the time. So if you play into someones strong tell and just ignore everyone else knowing it will work you will win most games.

Not like I've made this up, I've spoke to mafia paragons about this.

Hm, you're right about their reads. But in terms of my own capability reading them, my initial impression is still that he'll be tough for me

[Lady 8]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Lady 8]

I'm going to go cry now

Perhaps! I am a ghost of sorts. No connection to this fish lady you speak of, though

I may sweep you off your feet soon, but I imagine it'd be pretty easy with you being a ghost and all.

that is true

Why? I think scum are more likely to lolpropose and accept, given they just don't want to die.

Also... I've made up my mind.

Lady 7, may I have this dance?

i can appreciate the way you did it though ahahaha

[Lady 8]

I think Gentleman 6 is town here too

Agree

Human, nymph, dryad, dwarf, elf, wizard, druid, priest, sorcerer, bard, white knight. Make your pick.

this is a bad post

Is this serious? I agree though, it's missing rogue and warlock

It's still possible for him to propose to someone else.

If Lady 7 knows what's good for her she'll accept

[Lady 8]

The theme is warlock, werewolf and vampire. Gentleman 8 is the prince. There should have other classes we can use.

OH yeah there's warlock already

[Lady 8]

I already made it clear I like gent 1 but it's gut from his misunderstanding of us needing to find one T-T to win. Like he completely forgot there's a NK. It's not huge but also i just like the way he posts so i gut favoured him and would have accepted a proposal from him on the spot. I think his proposal to lady 7 is slight town but also it's just a stupid WIFOM thing!

Gent 6 is actually just town, probably more likely than Gent 1

Gent 4 no opinion as of yet

Gent 9 knows how to make an entrance. I probably have a small townread there but not sure

Gent 2 only says anything about the other players in 2/11 of his posts, where he townreads gent 1 and gent 6. Well I agree but no opinion otherwise

Where have the rest of the men run off to?!

[Lady 8]

hey i actually really like lady 8 now

I am up on Gentleman 9

I don't town read Sans 1 and i don't really get why people are beyond a vague like of his posts

Leave my vague like of his posts alone! I was blinded by the backflip. It was really impressive

I'm moving on now. I'm going to find the best gent out there. And then hope he feels the same way this time

[Lady 8]

It's the faces. I'm calling it.

[Lady 8]

;')

[Lady 8]

I ask Lady 8 to the dance

My reasoning is as follows:

-Having a sample of Lady 8's postings, I believe I'll be able to get a good read on her alignment if we are in a pt together. So far I like them in a nai way but believe that it is possible for them to be mafia.
-To that extent, I disagree with post 312 from Lady 7. I'm not townreading Lady 6 specifically right now. Lady 8 I feel hasn't revealed enough of her heart to be able to tell. I don't know how I feel about Lady 7 as a result of this.
-I intend to put in work this game.

You want to use our dance to get to know me better? And you want me to reveal more of my heart to you? Stop it, ah!!!!

Even if I'm struggling a little bit with keeping track of who's who this time around, I would absolutely love to be in a PT with someone who wants to put some effort in together.

You proposing to me because you think you should be the one the sort me, rather than proposing because you are sure I'm town... it sounds so much more interesting that way.

You've got me all excited now. Oh bother

[Lady 8]

Is it only because he asked Lady 7?

Yes, instead of asking/accepting someone who was already willing, he asked someone who he's trying to read.

Both Lady 7 and Lady 8 wanted to dance with G1 iirc.

This is correct. Lady 7 first wanted to and then me.

He never said why he picked her, although it might've been her reaction to him hinting he might pick me. Or maybe he was planning on picking her all along. I don't know! But I got over it

[Lady 8]

gent 1 has charisma and that seems to be the primary reason for town reading him so far

I want Lady 8 in a strong pairing, that may end up being G5

L8.Ghost is by a good margin the towniest Lady in the game.

I'm gonna be real, I have been mostly just been focusing on the Gents as a way to parse through the game easier. Hopefully the lady reads starting coming to me better.

But on that note, am I really the towniest of us? I find that hard to believe.

Pedit: I really wasn't getting the vibe I was the towniest ?!!?! If that were true I'd approach this dance proposal differently. But I was more getting the idea I was in the null range, and he wanted to be the hero that solves me.

Is this not the case?

[Lady 8]

As scum wouldn't you want to pick your partner on future prospects not how townie they are now?
So to some degree I think scum would like to pair with someone like me, Lady 8, Lady 1.cry.

Emotionally invested players that are likely to put up a fight for the entire duration of the game.
So a more medium invested mid poster who is being widely town read could end up being a worse pairing long term.

I just think L8.Ghost is a clear partner scum would want to pair up with.

I suppose I can see what you mean. Was it clear before Gent 5 proposed that I was going to be pretty invested? Your argument that scum would want a player who is going to not want to go down easy, probably can gets townreads, etc is fair enough

But on the flip side if Gent 5 is really a town player who wants to "go to work"... mmmm I'm so into it

[Lady 8]

Or am I mistaken? I don't remember other people talking about Lady 8, but Gent 4 just said that she was being townread

This was my recollection. Seal Lady 6 quite liked me, but I felt like that was just mostly just coming from her. Whereas I swear others were getting mostly consensus townreads.

Oh, that was mostly at the Gent side I guess. The Gents have been townier thus far

[Lady 8]

The Gents have been townier thus far

Who has?

Gent 1 had a lot of positive reception. Gent 9's early proposal to Lady 3 was taken pretty well from what I recall. Gent 6 I think got a little scumread for being overly mechanical but after the replace has been townread. Gent 4 is a chad as mentioned by someone else (idk what that says about his alignment but i think he's had good posts).

Maybe I have a gentleman bias. Either way I mostly remember the Gents who posted early on getting pretty heavily townread.

[Lady 8]

299 was the post that had me town reading Lady 8 due to the careful consideration in weighing the different gentlemen

it's not actually too necessary for her to do given she'll get an invite no matter what, but I think the effort put into it is genuine and shows she cares about producing a pro-town pairing

"This thread is sorta hard to read through. I'm just gonna ISO the men and find my favourite cause that's more important atm!" <- my exact thought process

I do want the right one but also I felt like i was gonna be overwhelmed if I tried to do a full reread. So I just focused on the picking a mate part. Really I need to consolidate some feelings towards the ladies too.

[Lady 8]

I think Lady 1's LAMIST comment was pretty good, I thought the same thing a little but eh, town could throw away credit like that to be nice. But it is a really obvious LAMIST looking thing. I actually really like her style lol

I have 0 read on Lady 2. I don't know what it is about her posts, there's nothing wrong with them I just don't get much. Same with Lady 5. And Lady 4 (but she just hasn't had the time to play yet)

Lady 3 I'd actually be pretty surprised if she's scum. Feel like she probably would have feigned at least some indecisiveness with a proposal that early on, jeesh. Yeah, I dont think there's scum in that pairing.

Seal Lady 6 I want to put trust in. I love her progression on me but I might be pocketed. I think her Gent indecisiveness is probably not feigned, it'd be quite easy to fake reads on the Gents I feel

I can probably look at Lady 7 objectively now since she's no longer my rival. I think she has approached Gent 5 pretty fairly. I disagree with her scumread take on Scarf 6 but it feels real, unsure how to explain that. I don't know if there's good scum motivation for it.

[Lady 8]

Creepy Lady 8 deserves someone better than caveman gent 5

This is not how I was expecting this proposal to be received ! I didn't think I was townread this game. Silly me then I guess!

If you are genuinely a good gentoolman who wants to sort your partners while in the PT as you say, creepy lady 8 does not seem like a good choice at all, since you admit you town read her, and so does most other players. Her posting style to me seems straightforward, and your phrasing "is a capacity for her to be fooling us in there" is strange.

In particular, there are more interesting enigmatic ladies on the table to potentially sort, such as blue hair lady 7 or seal lady 6 that I would feel the phrase there fits more

I took his phrasing as "I think there's a slightly higher chance Lady 8 is fooling us than Lady 7". Or something like that.

I think if Gent 5 were to have thought at the time that I was a difficult read for the thread, then his posting makes sense. And that's what I was thinking then too!

But I agree with you that the new thread climate seems to not have me in that category anymore

[Lady 8]

If it isn't obvious I intend to go very hard this game.

I plan to beat you on that when I get past this phase

Damn ok this game is going to be quite exciting!

I'm not even gonna try to sort everyone until the player count is down for my own sanity. I think how I'm gonna play this is try to find strong reads and zero in on them.

Very fair, i think. I'm not thinking too too broadly yet either

[Lady 8]

I already have my 3 pairings I want in end game can I get a gg

I’m intrigued. Let’s discuss.

You/me
Lady 8/IC
Lady 4/Gent 5.

Thoughts?

Wouldn't that just get me and him killed? Gent 8 and I wouldn't live to final six.

You/Gent 4 would take some convincing. Actually Lady 4 kind of too, I like Lady 4's posting recently but I wouldn't bet the game on her yet. Gent 5 I like, but why isn't he with me?

Pedit: @470 I like the attempt! Feels somewhat gut-based. I can relate with just getting a bunch of town together and trying to bet the game on them.

[Lady 8]

I still love Lady 1's style. I like Lady 4 too recently

i want to aim to be solvey in my lover and i's PT together. I would like to pick a date who also would like to do some of that with me

Why am I salad

ahahahaha

[Lady 8]

Gent 4 gets all the ladiees

[Lady 8]

I just figured out what the baby seal avatar represents that was brought up earlier.
Doesn't strike me as the person to try and signal who they are though so maybe I am wrong.

What was brought up was that it was someone trying to emulate the feelings that person gives off, not that they are that person.

[Lady 8]

I can probably look at Lady 7 objectively now

since she's no longer my rival.

To me it seems like Ghosty 8 has already decided that they'd be pairing with me at this point.

Post 477 tingles my suspicions; pairing with the IC in Ghosty 8's position would actually be bad if she were mafia, because the general consensus has shifted to think she is town.

The way she talks about me in 408 fuels my suspicion as well. If she is mafia, she's likely decided that she wants to accept my proposal, is what I think... I can see town her feeling 'possessive' I guess, with this post and 477.

@Blue 7 it's your initial reasoning but in reverse, Lady 8 would want to pair with me if they were, mafia, probably...

Am I the only person who is seeing things like this?

Yes and no. In that post I meant I'm no longer fighting her for Gent 1. But I am heavily favouring you at the moment.. and your return to being so interested in solving me just makes me get more and more excited about it

Lady 8, who would you pick to pair with the prince?

Someone lightly townread, I think. I'm under the impression that the IC tends to get killed in the intermission, so I wouldn't want to lose a town blocked player needlessly. But on the flip side if we chose someone scummy, they could just leave the Prince alive to the second dance and get a misexile in the event they're town.

So someone a little bit down the town list. For me, the ladies are a little hard to parse. I lean town to varying degrees on 1/4/6/7. Probably 1 or 4 for me atm, pending more discussion.

[Lady 8]

The fact I can't tell if Lady 7 is joking or now terrifies me

same lol!

I'm getting better and better feels from Princess 1. Scum wouldn't want to be paired with the IC, and while Lady 1 isn't overly excited about it (which I think is understandable), she literally edited her avatar and perpetuated a princess bit which just begs for us to consider her with the IC more

It's worth noting that in the last anonymous dance setup (which can be found in your egoposts, except for gent 9) the mafia paired with the IC and managed to survive all the way to the final 2 pairings before losing

Oh. I was under the impression the IC was always asked to leave the dance

Actually, G3.Collar's posts so far aren't great. Explaining his locktown energy read on me by arguing G1/L7 is less likely to be scum than G1/L8 is really not answering the question. Also, I didn't say or suggest the reasoning in 359. Could be TMI?

I swear we been thru this

The sentiment still reads as pretty genuine to me?

Like even if you think you would do it as town, it's pretty ballsy to insta-accept as scum when you could potentially face heat for it as well as potentially end up with a scummy-looking partner.

Maybe. I see what you mean.

I agree in that I think Lady 3 is more towny for it than not

Pedit: damn

[Lady 8]

I'd love to be paired with Ghosty 8.

ohh~!!!

Fuck I want to be paired with you too

Accept Gent 5

[Lady 8]

lady 8's reason for townreading gentleman 1 is silly. gentleman 1 was obvious discounting the IC pairing when he said 1 T-T pair (otherwise it would have just been "one town player (other than the IC)")

Ya that's a good point. I have no idea how I didnt realize that and I also have no idea why I wasn't corrected on that sooner

I'd love to be paired with Ghosty 8.

ohh~!!!

Fuck I want to be paired with you too

Accept Gent 5

It is my honor

I cant wait!!

[Lady 8]

My apologies that you felt left out Lady Earth 5, I was just speaking with the people who were active at the time I was posting, rather than searching backwards too much. I also focused on the Gents more. It was easier for me that way

idk, maybe I'm wrong, whatever

hey gents, will accept whoever wants to proposition me next at this point

because I feel incredibly disengaged from the game, I'm not having fun, and I hope having a partner might help with that

hmm

I want to townread your frustration, although I probably shouldn't. The feeling of being ignored would suck either way. But I can confirm having a date makes this very exciting!

okay, I suppose I'm back to around neutral on L3, maybe very, very slightly town

More or less where I have her! Maybe a bit higher

Pardon, majesty. It's just my advice to evict Gentleman 4.

This will be interesting

Oh, I dislike gentleman 7’s entrance too

L4 is very null

Agree, in a sense that it's pretty easy to fake. Was just "Who's paired?" -> "I ask this Lady cause I like her the most". Nothing wrong with getting straight to the point I guess if he wants but it is really not helpful for determining his alignment

[Lady 8]

I feel like the incentive should be to partner with someone who is read similarly to you. As in, if you're town but scummy enough to not make it to endgame, you would want to pair up with scum in order to redirect people's scumreads on you somewhere useful. Whereas, if you are townread, you would want to pair up with someone who is both town and towny enough to not drag your pair down.

This is a really good way of looking at it.

Planet 5 seems genuine in her frustrations here

yes... unsure those frustrations are AI however

I guess not but I still like Earth Lady 5 more now

I ask Lady 6 to the dance.

Definitely the cutest, most honorable and townie looking lady.

um I need more from you gorilla boy

You got sass.

Hahahahaha I love it

[Lady 8]

If you guys want me to be completely serious about my pairing with G1.Sans.

I perceived his opening to the game a town slip. I didn't realize he could have easily thought town need one T-T pair to win after the night kill occurs. I do think scum would consider all outcomes such as being able to be paired together especially someone who has apparently never played the setup before.

I still kind of think he is town for entering with that kind of a mistake but I do believe I made a mistake jumping so quickly to make this pair.

Did the same f'n thing blue lady lol

I'm very weirded out by Gentleman 2's pop-in a couple pages ago

especially since given his ISO he seems like one of the best candidates for first eviction

Main thing I'm wondering about it, does scum Gent 2 feel the need to randomly go after Gent 4? My first impression is it's like just some gut read he had. But I'll need him to explain more of course

Much better. This tophat truly represents everything this game means to me.

Anyways, let's talk about how goddamn townie my prior owner's replace out was, shall we?

I like it!

I thought it was decently townie. My gut says he was trying his best at first (Like how he was trying to set up nicknames to make it easier to remember who's who) but he just got overwhelmed. I know scum could have a similar experience but I lean it for town for now

I had the same read of Lady Rosalina 2 as quite a few others for a while. I think she had a slightly slow start but I think she's been getting better recently.

Greetings.

I'd been following along loosely with this game up to a point, although more as an exercise in figuring out the people behind the accounts rather than trying to analyze alignments.

I'll get caught up now.

Hell yeah Gent 3! You were probably my favourite slot to not get a partner though.

[Lady 8]

This might be personal bias, but I don't think Lady 6(Seal) should accept Gentleman 7's offer at this point.

Hehe. Why haven't you proposed yet? Agree though

Quantity is not synonym to alignment. Quality is what matters.

It would be generous to say that your posts have quality. Why do you scumread me?

I'm going to have to agree with Gent 4 on this one as well, while it's true that the contents of posts are more important than the count, I don't have a great read on Gent 2 yet.

Gent 2, did you mean to imply that your posts have been pretty "quality" or pretty towny thus far?

[Lady 8]

Me vs the girl they tell you not to worry about his how I feel about Lady 8

Really?! It's not like that!

299 was the post that had me town reading Ghost (L8) due to the careful consideration in weighing the different gentlemen

it's not actually too necessary for her to do given she'll get an invite no matter what, but I think the effort put into it is genuine and shows she cares about producing a pro-town pairing

I think your interpretation is off. That post doesn't read to me like a careful consideration of options when it comes to gentlemen; I see it more as just a readslist on every gentleman who had posted at the time. That distinction might seem meaningless to you, but I think it matters for the point you're making—a careful consideration of which gentleman would result in the most pro-town pairing I might consider town-indicative, but viewed as a simple readslist that point goes away. In fact, in my experience I've found that readslists structured in a manner that take effort to mention every single player (or at least every player that has posted so far) often come from scum forcing themselves to give reads.

This isn't to say that I take that post as being hugely scum-indicative, or even all that moderately scum-indicative. I just disagree with your interpretation of it as a major point towards Lady 8 being town.

In a way, you are correct. I didn't want to go through the entire thread again, so I prioritized reading the gentlemen because I'm going to get with one eventually.

But that wasn't really a "weigh pros and cons of each partner" as much as just a general readslist, as you said. Although I did pick the Gents rather than Ladies for the partnering reason, my end goal was to find a Gent. I would say you're partially correct

299 was the post that had me town reading Ghost (L8) due to the careful consideration in weighing the different gentlemen

it's not actually too necessary for her to do given she'll get an invite no matter what, but I think the effort put into it is genuine and shows she cares about producing a pro-town pairing

"This thread is sorta hard to read through. I'm just gonna ISO the men and find my favourite cause that's more important atm!" <- my exact thought process

I do want the right one but also I felt like i was gonna be overwhelmed if I tried to do a full reread. So I just focused on the picking a mate part. Really I need to consolidate some feelings towards the ladies too.

It could easily be said that the mindset of finding the best dance partner is plainly more likely to come from scum rather than town, who might be more focused simply on figuring people out and then thinking about dance partners.

Of course, one could easily counter this by saying that Lady 8 talking about this mindset in the first place is towny given that she's being honest about something that might be considered scummy, but that's getting into WIFOM, which I don't care to go too deep into.

Again, not a hige point, just trying to talk more to get myself into the game and because I was asked to elaborate on this scumread.

I said I wanted to find my favourite Gent, and that's because I value being in a PT with someone I fancy pretty heavily (you may have noticed as the game goes on..)

I didn't really view trying to find a favourite partner as a scummy thing at the time of writing that. I guess maybe I would have as scum, and there could have been a whole WIFOM consideration, but my guess is that I wouldn't have viewed finding a nice partner as a scummy thing there either. It's something I want largely for enjoyment reasons!

[Lady 8]

I think it's productive to discuss which of the gentlemen we want to leave behind at this point. I liked Sherlock 3s entrance and I've been town reading teenisg4. Gorilla boy g7 is my least town gentleman read at the moment.

I like his entrance. It starting to feel pretty likely there won't be a Gent below 7 on people's reads. I agree but like it's unfortunate cause I don't dead to rights scumread him, there's just nothing particularly town

That's not to say that it's not entirely relevant to alignments. For instance, it semed likely to me reading through that both Gentleman 9 and Gentleman 5's proposals to their prospective partners were because they recognized (or thought that they recognized) who the Ladies were. What exactly that information means I've yet to come to any conclusion on, but at least the premise seems likely to me at the moment.

I got that feeling a bit as well. Gent 9 I originally thought it was because both he and Lady 3 used emote faces, but looking back those came afterwards. I don't exactly know what prompted it

Gent 5 was very, very quick to the draw with me. And not because he hard townread me either. He makes me feel very special!! But your point is decently likely to be true there, yes.

pedit: SANS NO I DIDN'T SEEEEEEEE THAT

[Lady 8]

Ah, I see Lady 8 is going through the gauntlet as well

Hi love!!!

I am indeed. It's somewhat intimidating but im sure i'll get there

[Lady 8]

I like Cry Lady 1. I assume she wasn't getting proposals cause of the princess bit.

[Lady 8]

I like L4s progression so far and would like to hear more about what people think about Lady 7 because I know I'm obviously wrong on one of her/G1 but they're who I want to vote pretty easily at the moment due to the fact I think they're both wolfy

A lot of people agree that at the very least G1 shouldn't be town read. Where does your Lady 7 scum read stem from? That's the more unpopular take at present

A lot of Lady 7s posting feels planned. At first she said she wasn't going to post in her PT and changed her mind and then made a big deal of 'oh I have paranoia on a lot of these players! Paranoia this and that!' It feels like a way to leave her options open. I also don't like her talking about how scum want to pair with Lady 8 as if to set up a mislynch down the line. There's more to the read but this is based off memory and not iso diving

I like this take a lot but I don't think I agree. Unsure actually, the premise of being over-paranoid of tons of slots is actually something I've observed in scum on occasion.

But I've noticed some people just live in constant fear of their townpool as well.

I think I agree with the idea of scum wanting to be overparanoid to set up suspicions for later. But I don't lean on that's what Lady 7 is doing. Especially when she just started doing the paranoia on demand bit for Cry Lady 1. She's used to being paranoid throughout many of her games, I take it.

[Lady 8]

A pair I'd feel very comfortable about is G6.Seal and G3.Sherlock.

Both strike me as the towniest remaining players.
I think the push on G8.Ghost comes from town a lot more often then it comes from scum trying to do something "frisky". Especially in a setup like this you tend to leave lynches like that later, scum rarely try and set things up long term since that just isn't the natural approach.

Funny how you're thinking about the ideal long-term for scum in an opposite way to Cry Lady 1's thinking. She thinks you may be over paranoiaing to set up late lynches, you think a plan like that is unnatural. I know if that really means anything but it's just interesting.

I do agree that I think I like Gent 3's scumread of me. It's a vast improvement of my prior read on the slot

That's not to say that it's not entirely relevant to alignments. For instance, it semed likely to me reading through that both Gentleman 9 and Gentleman 5's proposals to their prospective partners were because they recognized (or thought that they recognized) who the Ladies were. What exactly that information means I've yet to come to any conclusion on, but at least the premise seems likely to me at the moment.

I have no idea who Ghosty 8 is under the mask.

You just chose me totally off of this game?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! woah!!

[Lady 8]

G4 is probably my pick of the non-confirmed gentlemen, but that depends quite a lot on how much the un-confirmed engage with me over the rest of phase and whether I think they’d make a good partner

I would approve of this pairing. You're both around the same tier for me, maybe you a bit higher than him.

Agree, in a sense that it's pretty easy to fake. Was just "Who's paired?" -> "I ask this Lady cause I like her the most". Nothing wrong with getting straight to the point I guess if he wants but it is really not helpful for determining his alignment

Regarding the last bit, what do you think of it regarding G8’s idea that scum probably have a strategy of some sort in how they’d approach proposals or accepting proposals? Do you think the similarity to G9’s proposal/L3’s acceptance is significant at all?

I think it'd be naive of Gent 7 to think he could mirror that kind of proposal and have it go the same way. I get the feeling Gent 7 hasn't read a lot of the game.

It wasn't in particular (I think it is a LITTLE but I'm sort of biased) but I really hoped people would engage me on it!

You're the second person to do so and the first person (Lady the 8th) has stated that she felt it "Decently townie". Which, while not a bad take, I'd love to hear HER reasons why!

I really feel like it was AI given the lack of meta on the slot

I could see a town slot who is new to the game feeling that way, absolutely, but given the secret alt aspect I also think it would be the sort of thing a player who dislikes scum might say to just nope out of the game immediately

I was very much getting the vibes he was just getting overwhelmed fr. I think that was genuine at the very least. I don't think it was a cop-out cause he disliked his alignment.

It could happen to either alignment, though, regardless. I probably over townread it, but that was what I thought at the time. I still prolly have him above rand for town

[Lady 8]

who I know you to be,

Interesting, we'll see if you're right in the post-game. I think there's a decent chance you're wrong, but wouldn't be surprised if you were right.

I'm unsure if Lady 8 has an idea of who I am, or thinks she has an idea

There's a phrase you used early on that made me feel like I knew who you were. But I figured out I was wrong long before accepting your proposal

I guess we both haven't got a clue, then. I love it!!

[Lady 8]

My role this game is to sort my potential partner, then walk if needed. You know, or not make it to the actual dance and have my otherwise shitty reads come from confirmed dead town.

I feel somewhat inclined to townread this mindset. But it's a stupid WIFOMy thing (cause scum wouldn't leave the dance). Gah!

[G9, G5,]
[G3 G6]
[G4 G7]
[G1, G2]

[L4 L5]
[L6 L8 L3]
[L2, L7]

Oh, this is nice and concise. I don't think G7 should be up a tier, but this is generally pretty good. I could see having G2 at the very bottom instead of G7, but I think I prefer G7 at the moment.

The ladies are way harder for me. I'm starting to foster a paranoia of L6 (boo, ik). I like L1 L5 L4 the most prolly too. I can see scum somewhere below them.

Gentleman 7, you should ask someone else to dance, I don't plan on accepting your invitation

No thanks. I'd rather die than invite anyone else but you.

Oh my. This will be interesting

[Lady 8]

it's impossible to tell anyone's alignment from the pre-dance. Everyone with strong opinions at the moment are either arrogant or lying. I don't plan on focusing on trying to make any sort of claim that I know anything until we can start voting. I thought that was obvious. Or apparently there are some oracles among us.

Part of the early game is puffing up your reads somewhat. Arrogant or lying is a big overstatement. If everyone took this attitude, there wouldn't be any early game at all!

if Lady 6 turns out to be a demonic creature, you can count on me to act decisively. I will stake her myself without hesitation. But until then, I have chosen to join my fate to hers.

Well now I don't know how to feel about you really

Gent 6 and Lady 5 should pair up and whoever is unpaired rn waits for deadline to hit and we all leave together.

I wasn't aware that is a thing that you can do.

Damn now all the Gents are threatening to sacrifice themselves. That's rough for my WIFOMy townread of people being heavily disposed towards leaving

I'm not even close to being caught up..;

[Lady 8]

I rather troll lady 6

that's not very gentlemanly

I heard you didn't favor gentlemanly. I heard you are one for mystery and risk-taking.

Nice save.

Scum wants to pair up as soon as possible. Gent 5 or Gent 9 comes into mind.

That's too surface level for my liking

I just realized the argument Cry lady 1 and Blue Lady 7 were having that I've been glossing over is that exact thing I pointed out a bit ago where they were approaching the scum mindset in opposite ways. Will I read it now? Maybe

I think her posting looks better in places beyond that point. But yes there's room for suspicion, I don't regret my choice though

<3 !!

I think it's productive to discuss which of the gentlemen we want to leave behind at this point. I liked Sherlock 3s entrance and I've been town reading teenisg4. Gorilla boy g7 is my least town gentleman read at the moment.

My take: Gentleman 7 has a good chance of being abrasive town, because the way they're acting isn't conductive to getting a dance partner and perhaps his team would be telling him to do otherwise

Don't think Gent 7 would be the type to listen to his team on this. But I could see abrasive town, sure

[Lady 8]

Gent 4, gent 5 and gent 9. At least one of them should be a hit unless we have three furies ladies.

I like 5 a lot and 9 a bit. Your only justification for them was the aforementioned "Scum want to pair up ASAP" argument (as far as i see). I don't see where you're getting this.

I don't like either one of Gentleman 9 or Lady 3. Neither are overtly all that scummy and I suspect that G9 proposed to L3 more out of recognition than game reasons, but I still don't like either. Sans is the weak point for me in his pairing. I think that earlier I said that I townread him, but I think over time I started to realize that that was more a function of him simply posting a lot and having decent commentary. I don't think he's done anything truly town-indicative. And finally my thoughts on Ghost (L8) I've talked about already. As I'm trying to make clear, these reads aren't strong by any means.

So as for if it's the people or the bond, in the G9-L3 case it is because of both of them, so I suppose the pair itself is fine as I have a similar read on the members. For the other two pairs, however, I would've preferred if L7 and G5 could've been paired with different people.

Suspecting someone in the G9/L3 pair is fair enough I suppose. I weakly townread it early. Your take on G1 Sans is perfect. I'm a little hurt by your read on me but I can handle it

Gent 5 is mine now I would not have this any other way, at all

If you scum read both players in a pair then you should like the pairing

correct

I am incredibly sad about Gent 1 but I saw it in someone's quote earlier first. God damn it

I plan on accepting Gent 3's invite

I might like Gent 3 more than Seal Lady 6 now. I think the pair is fine enough but recently I've been wondering if my Seal Lady 6 townread stemmed too much from her early townread on me.

Sure. What would you like to talk about?

If you’ve gone into depth or substantiated your SR there more fully could you link me to it/quote it? If not, could you run through it for me? My impression of the new G6 has been pretty consistently town and I don’t want him eliminated

My experience towards Gent 6 is much closer to Lady 5's than it is to Gent 3's. I'm not hugely townreading him but I don't think Gent 6 should be the one to leave.

[Lady 8]

Is L1.cry being town even a hot take?
Because I know no one is offering them.

But I really do like them for town right now.

Not at all. I think Lady 1 has gotten to a point where she's towny enough that she isn't wanted to be with the IC. I agree with that heavily. She also seemed like she was very accepting of being with the IC, too, at least to me. All in all i have her as pretty good town

Lady 5 seems pretty pleased with the idea of being with Gent 8. I'm happy for her!

Do you not have access to a private thread with him?

My least favorite part of the setup is you only get the PT for the singular night phase.

Wait what?! I thought the PT is open for the whole game after this phase?

Wait you get the PT for the entire game now?

Well it’s not just for the single night phase, but you still have to wait until pre dance ends.

Oh thank god

One thing I have observed from previous secret alt games is that players still fall back on their common biases. Just as in any regular game, the people who are bad at expressing themselves, the people who are "weird": they tend to be the first to go. People who are well-spoken, funny, or otherwise likeable tend to stick around regardless of the rest of their behavior.

As I've said before, this is part of the reason why I think people may be townreading Gentleman 6, or opposed to his being left out. I personally think he's much better spoken and less abrasive than either Gentleman 2 or Gentleman 7, and I imagine that everyone else would agree.

I myself

have already told him that I enjoy interacting with him more than I do either of the other unpaired Gentleman and would prefer to keep him alive if I had reasons to do so.

It's really easy to convince yourself that someone who isn't great at speaking, who has truly unorthodox thought patterns, or who is otherwise just awkward is scum. It's why the same people get eliminated early game after game. It's very easy to understand what I'm saying, but I think it's a lot harder to truly internalize that we all have biases against getting rid of people we like interacting with and recognize how that might shape your opinions. I don't claim to be much better than anyone else at it, but I think that recognizing it is an important first step.

This is a very impressive post. I think that a bias towards awkward/hard to get posting is real. Not really so sure on that being the sole factor that separates Gent 6 from the others, though. I doubt that's the all of it.

[Lady 8]

she's just one of the few ladies who hasn't engaged with me at all (up until now)

in general I also don't see the value in engaging with the IC unless they have specific questions about/for me

I want to chime in on this-- I agree there isn't a huge reason to talk a lot with the IC. Especially around the time I (and Lady 6 probably) were most active and I didn't see many of Gent 8's posts anyway

[Lady 8]

I might like Gent 3 more than Seal Lady 6 now. I think the pair is fine enough but recently I've been wondering if my Seal Lady 6 townread stemmed too much from her early townread on me.

do you have other reasons to town read me than me town reading you?

I feel like that should be your answer

Pretty sure I do. Or did. Oops. That was one thing I remember but I feel there was definitely more. It's likely a recency bias because I've liked a lot of what Lady 1, Lady 5, Lady 7 have said in recent memory and I'm starting to forget some early game things

[Lady 8]

Can someone remind me who started spreading paranoia on L8ghost scum

I myself do not know the answer to this question and I just reread WHAT THE FUCK

NO I know. Gent 3 has a particularly strong negative opinion on me, although he has mostly just explained why my townreads are wrong. From my understanding he promises to get more serious about hunting me in the next phase though

[Lady 8]

G5 Skyrim man you haven't answered me, other than selfish motives, is there a benefit to partnering with someone you get along

Like a mechanical benefit? No, but I'll find it easier to read Lady 8.

As I said, when I mentioned that I would get along with 8, that was me trying to defend myself against Lady 7's accusations, it wasn't the reasoning I led with when proposing the pairing

Like today we seem to be having the same thoughts on things pretty consistently

What is it that makes you feel like you can solve me so well? Your proposal mentioned that using a sample of my postings, you figured you could solve me if we were to dance together. Which incorrectly somewhat led me to believe you had an idea of who I was.

Or don't answer that actually. That might actually ruin the whole point of solving me if you say it.

[Lady 8]

If there is a scum scum pairing I highly suspect it is G3 and L6

What about G4/L2?

Disclaimer: I feel like I'm probably being unfair to these two, but I just haven't really gotten a townread on either from reading through.

[Lady 8]

If there is a scum scum pairing I highly suspect it is G3 and L6

What about G4/L2?

Disclaimer: I feel like I'm probably being unfair to these two, but I just haven't really gotten a townread on either from reading through.

Oh I just noticed you said "scum scum". Kind of disregard that. I don't think BOTH G4 and L2 are scum. I see your point a lot better now

[Lady 8]

Because I feel like I'd work best with you out of all the ladies, and so I feel that I'd produce one of the most confident reads I can, or at least a read I feel good about.

Today in your catch up you were saying the same things as I was thinking/saying today to the extent that at the time I suspected that she was looking at my catch up and parroting me in an attempt to buddy.

I'm pretty sure that is not the case now

! !

That was indeed not the case so that's really exciting!

If there is a scum scum pairing I highly suspect it is G3 and L6

What about G4/L2?

Disclaimer: I feel like I'm probably being unfair to these two, but I just haven't really gotten a townread on either from reading through.

Weren't there a lot of people townreading Gent 4? Including Lady 7

Think so. I don't have a read on him really though. Maybe partnering with Lady 2 would be a poor move for scum actually since she's had a tendency to garner scumreads for...

@ghostly lady 8, I don't see any indications of them being scummy together, and I suspect lady 2 Rosa is mostly scum read due to play style

Her playstyle. Fair enough.

[Lady 8]

I objected!

You didn't really suggest an alternative though :X and you seemed to be okay with it with your posts just now.

Anyway one of the main reasons I was holding out was if the IC decided he wanted to pair with me and/or direct my pairing. At this point I wouldn't have wanted to pair with G2 or G7 anyway.

This is a pretty good post.

I'd rather leave out G2.chad, since G7.monkey has the ability to toggle if he truly thinks this is some kind of shit posting phase.
G2 is going to continue to play exactly the way he has been so far which is sub par play that will make him leave the dance.

As far as alignments are concerned I don't particularly like either I guess, if someone talks to me about it I'd be willing to dive them more in depth.

Im leaning this way also

Lady 2 has decent way of looking at it. I don't think one is townier than the other, either.

[Lady 8]

This sucks no matter what because whoever survives between the two will probably die pretty early and that means I go with them
I was enjoying this game q.q

I think Gent 7 has the potential to start playing. You never know what might happen during the dance!

[Lady 8]

I'm noticing a lot of the game isn't townreading my slot as much as it deserves, but I think g9.bananas is kind of scummy, so it's not the shame it would otherwise be. It's a shame this pairing occurred at all, though.

I'm willing to bet I missed the towntell-y post Lady 3 did early. In any case I townread Lady 3's replacement catchup

He has 67 posts and I nullread 67 of them

me

Lady 1, Lady 3, Lady 5, Lady 7, Lady 8
Gent 3, Gent 9

Lady 2, Lady 6
Gent 1, Gent 7

Lady 4
Gent 2, Gent 4, Gent 6

This is how I'm feeling right now

I think I'm at Lady 5>7=1>3 for the top of my townreads. Huh, I guess there are a lot of towny ladies compared to Gents. Cause I don't really dislike any of Lady 2, 6, and 4 really. I think probably Lady 4 or Lady 6 would be the most likely candidates for scum, but even then..

I think I'd have Gent 9 lower. I want to soulread Gent 1 upwards but I can't really elaborate on that much. I think out of the bottom of the Gents I like Gent 6 the most but I give him some room to be fooling me so he's in the middle.

[Lady 8]

I don't understand why L4.salad is so widely townread

complaining that the game was too long to read was not town indicative, the way she dressed it as changing the structure of how she would solve only takes a modicum of scum competency to layer onto the frustration she'd have as both alignments with the readability of the game.
I can't remember anything else people tried to towncase her with just everyone is saying the slot is town

Fair enough.. I did like Lady 4 for that stretch of posts but realistically, it's not much.

Actually I'm not sure if I've townread an l5 post. Low quantity at any rate.

For some reason from L5 the void feels less nerfarious

Pedit: I hard ship this pairing

Do not fear miss worldwide 5. I almost would bet the game on her being town at this point. I think her actively seeking out the IC was a plan with a very low success chance for scum. Like, who was going to oppose that pairing? At least that's how the gamestate felt to me when she started trying to get him to propose.

Unless scum is actually okay with getting paired with the IC, in which case my assumptions are off.

[Lady 8]

wait, lady 8 is a ghost?

i thought it was like a disfigured tree or something

WHAT

I'm wearing a mask and dress and curtseying in the spotlight. My clothes and hair are really messy lookin though so I look like a ghost.

A disfigured tree..... i didn't think i looked that bad

[Lady 8]

I'm noticing a lot of the game isn't townreading my slot as much as it deserves, but I think g9.bananas is kind of scummy, so it's not the shame it would otherwise be. It's a shame this pairing occurred at all, though.

This is scummy on so many levels.

No it's not. Well, I'd be open to hearing why I guess. But how is that your only comment?

I feel obligated to point out that Lady 8 has hedged on a lot of her catchup thoughts.
@G8 I can see what you're saying, but it was more of me equally preferring L6/L2 and not knowing which one I wanted. Since G3 is with L6, that made my choice a lot easier.

.__.

I get the vibe from reading over my thoughts, whenever I don't townread someone, I'm like "Aaa I don't townread you but idk why I'd think you're scum". I do this to like, Lady 6, Lady 2, and Gent 4 at least. So I guess I see what you mean but I'm not the type to get scumreads early much. I give a lot of people benefit of the doubt like a lot cause I am not confident at finding scum, espec day one

Is that what you're referring to?

I'm going to expel you first in dance1 because you didn't tell me if you've watched corpse bride

Did I get to that part and skipped over it, or am i not there yet? I'm SORRY !!!

I've seen it. It was a really long time ago, though

[Lady 8]

could i get an idea of 2 non-me pairs people want to see live until endgame btw?

even if you've recently stated it and even if it might change pending flips/first dance/etc, just looking for a rough idea of the consensus at the moment

maybe i needed larger rainbow text to draw more attention

hmm

this was a general question for everyone if it weren't apparent

I like Gent 9/Lady 3 >> Gent 6/Lady 1 as my favourite pairings besides my own. The ladies are carrying it more than the gents, though.

Pedit: I absolutely like my own pairing the most though! I am very enamoured with Gent 5 atm

[Lady 8]

I was trying to ask who you disagreed with.
G1: Pretty sure my read of him playing the game differently is wrong because he was doing it as a gimmick.
G2: Don't townread his mostly one liner posting calling people town/scum.
G3: Heavy analysis based, but there's nothing scum couldn't fake in his iso.
G6: Once again, nothing a experienced scum player can't fake but with less overall gamesolving than G3

L1: Can't read her right now.
L5: Not sure why I should townread her.
L8: Some of the posts feel a little fake to me. I dunno about her being obv town.

Maybe lots of criteria that I'm using here fits for my townreads, but my townreads also have the benefit of my gut. If these are just blatantly bad, I'll reconsider though.

I agree Gent 6 could be faked. I wouldn't bet the game on Lady 1/Gent 6 yet.

Lady 5's attitude towards the IC slot makes me feel she's probably my strongest town.

I could see betting on my own pair with Gent 9/Lady 3 as top two.

[Lady 8]

L8.haunter is adorbs

ahh!!! ^m^

[Lady 8]

I am extremely impressed by the poems. They're all quite nice!

ps: triple leave would achieve nothing over, i dunno, leaving if you really want to in any of the dance phases?

Oh yeah thats right lol. Please don't wait over this.

man you boys rather die than take salad girl's hand

This made me laugh really hard the first time I read it, ty for this

Gent 2 and 7's end of day behaviour doesn't scream scum to me I guess. If I were in salad ladies shoes I might slightly favour Gent 2.

Gent 7 feels nothing in the game really matters, Gent 2 also is similar but is at least trying to point out all that town needs to do to win (like pairs and stuff). I know earlier I was thinking Gent 7 could change but I get the vibe he might just get too annoyed to play in the next phase too (1416)

[Lady 8]

I am not worried about that tbh, he either comes in and I catch scum.
Or he comes in and I get a T/T pair.

I'll make it work.

that's the spirit!

[Lady 8]

I am still pretty sure you are town!
Ghost girl kinda fell off the grid after getting a strong pairing which is exactly how i expect scum to react.

But I guess I'll see during dance 1.

I'm sorry i have been around less!! That's usually a good scumtell for me, but this time it's more I've been prioritzing doing other stuff as of late.

I'm also not quite as excited to play because i dont have my PT still and I'm not super interested in the Gent2/7 stuff

[Lady 8]

wow my pairing really being snubbed. I hope the plan isn't just to mutually decide on endgame pairs and just vote everyone else out.

That would be really boring but also might technically be a good strategy. Idk, I guess if there's a deepwolf pair we'd be completely screwed because the scum would just okay that one through to the end.

I am still pretty sure you are town!
Ghost girl kinda fell off the grid after getting a strong pairing which is exactly how i expect scum to react.

But I guess I'll see during dance 1.

You think so? I think Ghosty 8 has had pretty good posts.

!! <33

[Lady 8]

My main takeaway recently is that Lady 7 is town and I trust her to evaluate Sans' successor. Her reaction to being put at the bottom of Gent 9's list was quite good

Lady 3 still town.. my decision on the pair pends on Gent 9 who I lean town more than scum but definitely need better reasoning

I have complete faith in my partner from how my reads are consistently very close to his. How he knew we'd vibe together so well within his first three posts, I do not know, but I am certainly not complaining

[Lady 8]

t's a bit late and I would love to do this later.
Generally, I am just in the patch of trying to sort my null pile.

What made you go from questioning L8.Ghost and trying to pair up with her to sort her.
To have her as a pretty solid town read, assuming that's your current read.

She fell off the grid so I am not sure what changed unless you took old information and reanalyzed it.

I agree with almost everything she is saying, to the point where I'd be making the same points (or have/do later)
That makes it very hard for me to see her as scum. I've been liking all of her recent posting.

You're probably paranoid of me because you think I'd be defending my dance partner as scum here.

As of right now, If I had to draw a hard line for my top 3 townreads, it's You, Lady 8, and Lady 3 - that is the level of confidence I am at currently. I'm still keeping her in consideration - that's my duty to do so, and I don't think she'd appreciate if I didn't put in effort to solve her

that's right, I love it when you solve me!!

He always radiated newb town energy, which is why I wanted to pair up with him.
I can see how other people wouldn't trust that, but pretending to be a newb and needing to stay consistent with that just sounds like an insufferable way to play so I never questioned it.

I don't think Gent 1 was a newb. Newb to this setup, perhaps, though. Or is that what you meant?

I believe pretty heavily that Lady 7 is being genuine with her argument on this page in any case

I'm so outclassed by all the players, maybe even by Lady1

Haha, well certainly not by me. A buncha people have been playing hard recently, I agree.

[Lady 8]

I don't want to hard defend someone all game and end up being wrong when people are telling me not to do it. It isn't making me think he is scum but it's making me think I should just depend on another pair and leave at some point so I can feel guilt free regarding this games result.

Unfortunately, if everyone feels this way it's not much of a game, now is it?

Damn I really felt that Lady 7. It's like when you're in a XYLO scenario and you know where what the dead town would want you to vote, but your heart is elsewhere. But you don't want to upset them if you're wrong

Hi Lady 8!

Can you talk about your read on me please? Looking through your ISO you've hedged a lot on my slot and I'm curious if you have any significant thoughts about my slot / my pairing

Hi Seal Lady 6! Yup I'm in full uncertainty mode on you. I don't have much of a read on your more recent posting, im sorry I dont have much

I think your endgame pair picks (G9/L3 + G1/L7) are decent, although i think I like my own pairing and possibly L1/G6 for consideration as well, I don't quite have G9 and G1 as high as you I take it

[Lady 8]

i can't wait to see how the Lady 1 Gent 6 relationship develops

[Lady 8]

Hi Seal Lady 6! Yup I'm in full uncertainty mode on you. I don't have much of a read on your more recent posting, im sorry I dont have muchI think your endgame pair picks (G9/L3 + G1/L7) are decent, although i think I like my own pairing and possibly L1/G6 for consideration as well, I don't quite have G9 and G1 as high as you I take it

That's fine! I wouldn't expect you to have much of a read on my more recent stuff. I think most of my AI stuff was earlier in the game. I was just curious if anything had developed on me.

I like L1/G6 decent enough, my only problem is sorting out G6. His tone is pleasant enough; I just get queasy whenever I try to town bin him. Do you have specific reasons for town reading him?

I also almost included you and G5 in my end game pairs, but you are the slot that holds me back on that. Scrolling through your ISO, I find it very hard to figure out what your opinions are on things. Your posts are pleasant enough to read on their own but the way you state your reads is incredibly hedgey and non-comital. Without going through your posts again, I can't really remember what your strongest reads are besides the ones you just mentioned. I don't mean that so much as an attack because it could totally just be a me thing not absorbing your posts in the right way, and your style might just be hedgey in general. But I'm struggling to find much town about your hedginess even though your tone makes me want to believe you're town.

What would you say are your strongest takes/reads as of right now? I don't need you to make anything up if you don't have much I just want to know what is at the top of your mind when you think about this game.

Also, why are you in full uncertainty mode about me? Is it like a "there's town and scum here" or a "nothing AI here" deal?

Lady 1 is indeed the one I favour in that pair. At some points I had her just about at the top of my reads. Gent 6 I quite like in general too but I recall there being something of his I townread, I just do not exactly remember what. Oh! Gent 6 is scarf man! I townread scarfy. I know I townread something of Chaos Gent 6 but I cannot find it

That's okay. Gent 5 is very towny. I think my posts come off that way because I myself am not totally for certain on things. I townread probably too many and nullread where I should have scumreads. I would probably say I'd be more deliberate as scum (but I know that is impossible for others to know in the case of this game). It's not an issue with how you read my posts, though, that's for certain

The strongest reads I can muster, incoming!! Number one, Earth Lady 5 is town. I think she did not have to gun for the IC, but she did, and I don't see any scum motivation in that. From what I can recall she wasn't being pressured into it at all and she had other options, but she reached out to Gent 8 herself. Lady 1 I also extend this read to quite a bit -- she even edited her avatar for the occasion.

I get quite good feels from Lady 1 independent of that -- even the repeated openwolfy comments. I think the only scum possibly in her pairing would be Gent 6, I don't believe it'd be a duel scum pairing

Lady 3 replacement's entrance to the thread I felt was really good, she feels quite towny. I think the first Lady 3's side of the early game proposal was townier than Gent 9's side, but I overall lean town on it regardless.

Kind of in the midway of the game I started glossing over some of Lady 7's longer posts cause I already decided out of her pairing she is definitely town. The last few pages have done nothing to change my mind on that. I think her excessive paranoia takes from way earlier were genuine, same with like her recent thoughts on her own pairing (like 1731)

Gent 3, I get where people are coming from where they say if he were following the game before joining, he could make some real-looking takes with ease. I still like him but I don't really know how to put into words why. Previously I thought there wasn't any scum motivation at all to lead with a big, new scumread on me. Though i guess it'd be helpful if the scumteam needs to cut out an additional pair like ours before XYLO, but that isnt how I read into it

The takes are getting weaker! Gent 5 is town. Gent 9 i lean town but need more -- Gent 9 and Gent 1 hover slightly over the rest

As for you, it's more just I don't have anything. I feel dumb but I like a lot of your takes but don't particularly know if you're town yet. I will say I quite appreciate you taking an interest in getting me to elaborate more, it's helping me out a lot too. Sorry if this wall is a bit weak to justify the size of it, though

I realized I was just supposed to put the strongest takes. I'm strongest on the L5/L7/L1/L3/G5 reads.

[Lady 8]

AAHhhh! Vampire!!

I think in scum!Lady 4's shoes, I'd have picked Gent 2. There was no good reason to pick Gent 7, and I think she may as well try to grab some towncred to keep herself alive. Like if she took Gent 7 and they paired up as a 2 scum pairing, there's no way they make it far and that's 2 scum down. At least this way she has somewhat of a bus under her belt.

That being said, I don't think I lean on her being scum I don't think. Will have to look back and stuff

[Lady 8]

L8, I had a question for you from before the end of pre-dance, if you’d be so kind

Oh, yes

I don't think it makes sense to target the IC as scum. From my recollection you weren't consensus town at the time nor really are now although I feel you should be. i just don't see what makes scum want to target the IC out of the blue.

I did see Gent 4's comment that there was a scum paired with the IC last time who lost in XYLO. I did read a bit of the end of the game, it did not feel like a favourable position for that player, at all

[Lady 8]

AAHhhh! Vampire!!

I think in scum!Lady 4's shoes, I'd have picked Gent 2. There was no good reason to pick Gent 7, and I think she may as well try to grab some towncred to keep herself alive. Like if she took Gent 7 and they paired up as a 2 scum pairing, there's no way they make it far and that's 2 scum down. At least this way she has somewhat of a bus under her belt.

That being said, I don't think I lean on her being scum I don't think. Will have to look back and stuff

I'm not quite sure about this, even if I might agree with you on the conclusion. If we assume Lady 4 is scum and Gentleman 2 is town, picking G7 (thus leaving G2 out) and immediately getting eliminated is the same number of town and scum dead as picking G2 and leaving G7 out, but with the added benefit that scum doesn't immediately flip, denying a lot of information to town. Thus, I might say that if Lady 4 were scum, she would have a lot of incentive to pick Gentleman 7; and that's not even mentioning that I believe many people were prepared to townread Gentleman 7 if he started putting more effort in.

I don't think the idea of bussing here is a strong one; I think that this choice points to Lady 4 town.

Hm, I see your point. I suppose I'm thinking more of a trying to survive perspective for Lady 4, which I feel I would probably take.

I think we can agree on the conclusion though, yeah

[Lady 8]

If we assume Lady 4 is scum and Gentleman 2 is town, picking G7 (thus leaving G2 out) and immediately getting eliminated is the same number of town and scum dead as picking G2 and leaving G7 out, but with the added benefit that scum doesn't immediately flip, denying a lot of information to town.

I think I wasn't as clear as I could've been here, so let me elaborate. Assume that Lady 4 is scum and whoever she's paired with will always be the first to go. Regardless of whether she picks Gentleman 2 or Gentleman 7, one town will end up dead and two scum will. The difference is that by picking Gentleman 7 she would deny town the immediate scumflip, and if we no longer assume that she is

always

the first to go, I think that a decent argument could be made that Gentleman 7 could have turned his slot around. Thus, I think Lady 4 would be incentivized as scum to pick Gentleman 7, and thus I don't think she's scum.

I didn't in the first place, but Gentleman 7's flip I would say is even more evidence in favor of her being town.

Gent 7 potentially turning around the slot is a good point, but I don't think he would've

I myself thought Gent 7 might turn up to play and at first favoured him, but when he continued to make frustrated comments (like "Yay we're seeing who can die first on the next day") I figured he was never gonna change. He might have even pushed for Lady 4 to get rid of him in the scum PT in that case

I don't know why I'm tin foiling this when I don't even believe in it though. You make valid points and I think objectively not bussing was probably a better play since a decent amount of people from what i remember were thinking both the remaining Gents were town

[Lady 8]

It really does feel like G7 was apathetic in the last 24 hours.

If there was a "turn and burn, give up and bus" time, it was probably around then.

Yeah this is what I was feeling. I think it is objectively better to not bus in theory, but with someone who would be unwilling to play, probably not so much.

[Lady 8]

L7 ur great and amazing and u did a fantastic job <3

ヽ(＾Д＾)ﾉ

There is approximately a 0% chance Lady 7 is scum. Here's to hoping Gent Nagito 1 is too

pedit: Always with the Gent 6 suspicions, Sherlock Gent 3!!

I forgot who exactly was defending Vampire Gent 7. Your theory is plausible although I really like Lady 1......

[Lady 8]

I will be in hysterics if Lady 1's every other page open wolfy comments turn out to be actually real

i also didn't like l1's princess crown stuff it felt like she was trying way too hard to pair with the prince g8

Why would scum Cry Lady 1 want to get with the prince?

[Lady 8]

I like you more too Seal Lady 6!

[Lady 8]

I am not saying scum will always play optimally, if they did this game would be trivially easy.
But I just don't see how wanting to pair up with the IC isn't a very strong point in favor of L1.

I think the only case where I'd consider pairing with the IC as scum is if I feel like I'm "sleeper obvtown" or something. Like if there were some confidence you could be extremely obvtown endgame, yet not obvtown early cause then why didn't you get nightkilled? it's a huge risk and I don't see why Cry Lady 1 (But especially Worldwide Lady 5) would want that as scum.

[Lady 8]

I think it's actually relatively townie?

That is a good sequence for Lady 2, yeah

I'm starting to not get Gent 9's takes much.

[Lady 8]

I’m really null on both L8 and G5, like individually and as a pair, and I’d like to speak to you both more during this phase

Hi Miss Worldwide!

I'm not sure I agree with Lady 7 that scum are more likely to take the route of "You're wrong so I'm not listening". If I had to pick between Lady 1 and Gent 9 though, I think I lean towards Gent 9 being scum

So why is my pair being voted? I'm pretty sure you can look at me telling you guys to let G2 talk as a positive for not being scum with G7.

PoE maybe. I don't really want your pair either, I think there's a good chance Lady 2 was scumread for NAI things

[Lady 8]

I think it's actually relatively townie?

That sequence looks pretty forced imo.

Really? Hm. Lady 2 simultaneously calls you town and says your take on Gent 7 being our locktown is garbage. What makes it seem forced?

[Lady 8]

I think it's actually relatively townie?

That sequence looks pretty forced imo.

Really? Hm. Lady 2 simultaneously calls you town and says your take on Gent 7 being our locktown is garbage. What makes it seem forced?

It's garbage

what

You understand me.

Huh? I thought you were saying Lady 2's posts seemed forced.

I do believe Lady 7's case is coming from a good place, and she might incidentally be correct, but I don't see what she is seeing about Gent 9's progression on Gent 7

[Lady 8]

I don’t think Lady 3 is terribly hurt by Gent 7’s flip. I’m pretty much on her side in 1965.

G7 wasn't a player the wolf team was ever going to expect to make end game. So obviously they were prepared for his death and probably tried to make themselves look regardless if he got a partner or not. If it was a highly contested slot that might be another story but I think we can all agree about G7.

I agree. I think Gent 7 towards the end of the day seemed pretty unsaveable, even if he were to go on a day. I think the way people perceived his initial entrance to the thread should be more telling for this reason. Allow me to check..

Would he extend an invitation to his scum partner out of the blue, just to have her reject him pretty quickly? Lady Seal 6 also advocated for saving Gent 2 over Gent 7 at the end of the day.

Oh, I dislike gentleman 7’s entrance too

It's, uh, it's definitely an entrance.

Lady 5 rather disliked his entrance. I already TR Lady 5 so that seems to be a good sign. Lady 2 asks him to explain why he didn't like her a couple posts after this.

I like Seal Lady 6 and Gent 7's interactions on page 27. I would be impressed if they were theatreing.

Including G7?

No I put him in same basket as G2

Lady 4 calls Gent 2 below other Gents. Lady 2 asks "Even G7?", and Lady 4 says they're the same.

Eh that wasn't terribly helpful. Gent 7 doesn't get talked about for a while. He has the stretch of posts that make him seem kind of frustrated with people having reads so early, more stuff about wanting Seal Lady 6...

Spoiler: Gent 7 and Lady 1

Lady 1. Strongly held opinions with flimsy reason to be convinced. Overcompensating for rolling scum or bad at mafia.

The fact I can't tell if Lady 7 is joking or now terrifies me

This post pings me negatively.

Not going to be my dance partner!

A) Wasn't gonna dance with you anyway
B) Super ironic

Bless your heart, my lady.

I will be very sad if you are a wolf Gent 7. You do not have my heart but you do have my support

I will be very sad if you are a wolf Gent 7. You do not have my heart but you do have my support

Then please grant me one favor, my lady 1, and let lady 6 know that she may risk an interesting dance with me, of course, but that I will never let her reputation be soiled should she accept my earnest and well-intentioned invitation.

Lady 6 don't break my friend Gent 7s heart. You should dance with him

I unironically support this btw

These interactions feel decent for Lady 1 being town.

If she isn't though, the openwolfing has been incredible from her. Vocally advocating for Gent 7 to be paired off with not much reason.

Spoiler: More Lady 1

You're right. It's between G2/G7

Oh god they both suck so much.

I would not be surprised if both were town tbh.

To some degree maybe?
Which one in particular do you think we should leave out. I'd have to analyze both to figure it out.

Depends on if Gent 7 is going to stick with his gimmick or not because on a town Gent 2 flip I would probably suspect Gent 4 a lot more. But if Gent 7 is gonna just do this all game we can leave him alone even though I'm pretty confident on him being town

Killing number 7 is a huge mistake
doing so would make my heart ache
All you need to do is look at the signs
and you'll realize his posts are fine
In time you'll find the real fake

Had Gent 7 lived through that first phase and gone down later, I really think Cry Lady 1 would have ended up screwing herself as scum with all the hard defending without much reasoning.

i know it's too wolfy to be a wolf! I just would expect scum to take a way different approach to Gent 7.

Like if you're going to defend him, I wouldn't expect them to place him above Gent 2 ?? And write poems advocating for him? I'd expect them to be on equal ground reads-wise, but maybe give some contrived technical reason why Gent 7 is technically slightly better. That way you can't be held accountable

[Lady 8]

since I'm going to oppose my own exile regardless of degree.

Err

Why?

I envision this game having lots of universe where I leave g9 in f4 but if he can somehow show a town alignment in a way that outweighs his sins my pair can maybe potentially be final pair.

It's kind of hard to clearly explain my own views of the strategy of the setup and how that layers across how I'm reading g9.bananas, but to what extent it makes me sound scummy, that's less a shame because my pairing getting voted out isn't

bad

maybe that's why this game is so fun for me, it's like even lower stakes than a VT game, I feel about 30% jester. It's like something even more carefree on the spectrum from godfather>goon>doctor>vt->misty

This is nuts haha i love it

pedit: Gent 5 !!!!!!!!

[Lady 8]

G1.Nagito I made you a pokedex to summarize the game

Spoiler:

I love your entry for me. Gent 5's could use some work. A great recap though!

Yeah L1 doesn’t look good to me at all. Seemed really agenda-driven pre dance, and seems to be attempting damage control now

Really? I'm curious about the damage control part..?

I'd pull up quotes if I townread my partner but this is a bit silly to me so I'll go back to calling the others wolfy and making open wolf posts because that makes people mad for some reason

Never change Cry Lady 1

I’m not saying you’re playing damage control for defending them, I’m saying you’re playing it for your questionable progression on them. For have them on your second-from-the-bottom read tier you seemed a little too unwilling to let him go. I don’t think it’s the unwillingness itself that’s bad, but that combined with his placement.

I didn't see the part you are talking about here. Cry Lady 1 used phrases like "I'm pretty sure he's town" referring to Gent 7, usually. Where did she have him at the second-bottom? My apologies if I'm being dumb and just missing it

For have them on your second-from-the-bottom read tier you seemed a little too unwilling to let him go. I don’t think it’s the unwillingness itself that’s bad, but that combined with his placement.

Who do you think I'm gonna vouch for to stay? The guy at the bottom of my list or the one above it who I thought was getting townier? And if you read the rest of my iso you'll see I was pushing for G4 to leave cause I found both G2/G7 townie

Sound about right

[Lady 8]

[G9, G5,]
[G3 G6]
[G4 G7]
[G1, G2]

[L4 L5]
[L6 L8 L3]
[L2, L7]

This is where I’m seeing G7 being second-from-the-bottom, referring to the tiers

Though it might have been developed past this point, even with that I’m still skeptical about why G7 was getting poetry saying not to eliminate him versus G4 if G4 was really more of a townread.

AH i remember now. Sorry about that.

I see what you're getting at, then. The poetry was while it was just down to Gent 2 and Gent 7 though. There was a point where it was Gent 2/7/6/4 alive, and I take it Lady 1 chose 4 out of them to be the one left behind.

I don't really know what motivated Lady 1 to suddenly have such confidence in Gent 7 being town over Gent 2 towards the late stages of the day. But it just seems like a poor idea if she's scum. He had a great chance of dying there and her poetry realistically wasn't going to do anything

[Lady 8]

well G7 flipped mafia, kinda would be a point for L2?

Why would that be a point for L2?

why would scum just leave their partner out to dry just like that? It seems rather foolish, do you think the mafia would have been hurt more by them pairing than losing a number immediately?

Gent 7 was kinda in give-up mode towards the end of the predance. I don't think he'd have lasted long in this phase. It makes sense for scum to disown him more than it does for them to try and keep him alive, since he was going to die sooner or later, imo.

There's an argument that maybe he would've tried to turn around and start playing, but he wasn't really giving me those vibes. I think he was going to stay unhappy with the game and would probably be encouraging his teammates to bus at this point-- see 1416.

[Lady 8]

reachy maybe but
If G7.bandana was anticipating expressing disinterest in pre-dance and leaving pre-dance, how likely would he be to go to the trouble of modifying his avatar.
Maybe he was anticipating LAMISTing into dance 1 instead?

I think this reaction to Gent 7's LAMIST is particularly good. I would expect her to lay back on that as scum, she didn't have to point that out at all

Of those, I like gent 9's response the least. It was a soft reaction and came after Lady 7's very hard "I want him to die for that"

His is probably the weakest, yeah

Gent 4's I could see coming from scum but I actually don't mind too much. I don't think scum goes so far as he did to interact with Gent 7, telling him "Don't rush it dude" and defending him with "I don't think it's AtE".

Lady 7 was the best but we already know she's the best

[Lady 8]

Like in a bad way?

I like her rationale towards trusting Gent 4, as town that's something that would probably be at the top of her mind. I don't hate her point that he hasn't played in a way that 'tryhards' getting to end game, with his choice of lady and general playstyle

[Lady 8]

I still don't exactly town read Lady 8.ghost myself.
But she also is constantly giving me positive reinforcement and I really appreciate that.

I still love u Blue Lady 7!!

I feel like the discussion over whether I would have picked G7 as scum or not is pretty useless due to insane amounts of WIFOM
And really getting associatives off of him from the last ~24 hours is potentially really misleading.
I'm more interested in the earlier stuff before he gave up

Hey me too that's what i tried a little ways back! He talked way less than I remembered though and it wasn't extremely helpful. I think it makes Lady 1 and Lady 5 town, and likely Lady 6 town although I'm still bouncing around the idea of randomly proposing to your scum partner and having them deny you.

I decided I think it sounds like a terrible, terrible plan.

[Lady 8]

My thing on G2 before I forget to post it and him saying G7 and L4 should be an end game pair.
That is almost certainly a town mistake and not wolf posturing?

I agree, that would be an incredibly weird plan for scum G2. If he is scum with G2, I'd expect him to fight hard against G7 so one of them can be spewed "town" upon the other's flip.

good sir gentleman 2,

could you please talk about what you were thinking when you made these two posts?

How do you all feel about a triple leave?

If I am going down this phase, G7/L4 should be our winning pair.

First post: I don't like lone townflips. If one of us had to flip town, it's better we all just flip town together.

Second post: G7, L4 and me were all leftovers. I assumed we should all just be town who wolves left behind for their amusement.

This thinking does make me feel pretty good about G2. Additionally there's the gambling fallacy of us actually managing to leave 2 scum gentleman as the leftovers.

I'm just gonna sit on the only pair I feel some amount of confidence in even if no one will join me
VOTE: Gent 3/Lady 6
pedit: Okay

I think Seal Lady 6 is pretty clearly town in this pair. Gent 3 I like over a lot of other Gents as well. I like this pair a lot :C

[Lady 8]

I agree with Seal Lady 6 placing Gent 3 and Gent 2 high up.

I still think I'd have rejected Gent 7 in scum!Lady 4's shoes. Regardless I agree lean town on her, though.

Yup that Lady 2 post towards Gent 2 calling a garbage take of his towny seems like a really good point in her favour

Also this is a hot take

It's a garbage take.

Garbage takes are generally towny unless they serve a transparently scum agenda, which this doesn't.

Lady 8, I've been feeling much better about recently, which is why I would love to get a better handle on G5.

I keep a close watch over my man, do not worry!! We actively discuss whatever he's probing in the thread and come to conclusions together! He also makes comments on things that coincide with my first thoughts on them, as well

Gent 1 and 6 are slots we're very curious about as well, in addition to Gent 4

I agree that philosophy wise I agree with a lot of Gent 9's arguments... but he's taking that disagreement with people a step further kind of in determining their alignments. I think Gent 3 is town and there's a fairly good chance there's scum on the other side attacking him, but I don't think it's Lady 1-- my first guess would be Gent 9. Agree Lady 3 is town

Pedit: @Gent 8 Well for starters, you can check the her interactions with Gent 7. I think that scum wouldn't want to be partnered together. So that means that for Gent 7 to propose to his scum partner, he'd have to purposefully throw himself under the bus to give her a reason to reject her. What an awful plan that you get almost nothing out of, and it might end up backfiring

[Lady 8]

You've asked a few people what they about G7 asking me out early in the game. What is your conclusion about that?

If it helps, I've reached my conclusion when I asked Lady 8 about it in my PT. Me asking other people is to see if anyone disagrees/so they can see what I'm seeing

a man after my own heart

the proper way to abuse neighbourhoods

<3 !!

Why would scum Cry Lady 1 want to get with the prince?

safest partner + this prince reads very kind and doesn't feel like would leave his own ball

This don't make sense

Spoiler: Gent 9

His insistence that G3 is scummy for being unhappy that his town reads weren't pairing with his town reads is... a logical argument I do not follow. I also didn't really think his attack on Gentleman 5 earlier in the game was very believable. Like I don't think it takes a lot of legwork to understand why G5 might've thought L8 was someone he could A. sort well, B. get along with, C. have some doubts about, and D. value that criteria enough to make a proposal when he did

This game is not standard mafia in which pairing matters a whole ton compared. Understanding why 5 would want to pair with 8 is critical. And I think G3 is a good player to understand the nuance of town scum matches are not necessarily bad, but he's lumping them all trivially in the same bucket

The fact that you are just blanketing over seems incredibly disengenuous.
VOTE: L6-g3

No way you're voting Lady 6 with a straight face! Not to mention I don't even understand the reason!

See like-- I agree that Gent 5's reasoning for linking up with me makes sense and I disagree with Gent 3's evaluation of it. But I don't know how you're taking it to a scumread. And also now you're calling Lady 6 disingenuous, so you dislike them both now?

Pedit: I can vibe with just about all her thoughts she poured out into the game in her wall. It wasn't full of filler, just pretty much good reads. I think beyond that I didn't townread Lady 6 especially hard during the pre-dance. I find it very hard to believe both A.) Gent 7 proposes to his partner and busses himself, and B.) Lady 6 has such good thoughts are happening if Lady 6 is scum

Peditpedit: On the fifth page?! Wow!

Still, in this case they didn't want to be partnered together, as Lady 6 rejected him pretty much immediately.

[Lady 8]

Okay L8 I think I’m ready to talk to you please hit me up next time you’re around!

hi!!

Gent 9, you crazy. It felt like you were flailing against Lady Seal 6 in 2223, and also started flailing against my man by accusing him out of the blue in 2227 and 2229. Yesterday you had us at the top but today you dropped us because you think he's attacking you in bad faith and townread me too quickly. :I

But! Apparently you misunderstood the setup though. Am i understanding this right that is what caused you to suspect Gent 3 and Gent 5? Or am i misunderstanding

[Lady 8]

What I'm not understanding about Gent 9 is, even if he thought we only had one execution and thought leaving was the main mechanism, I don't see how that puts extreme emphasis on sorting your partner

I've been assuming we were going to vote people up and when they get close, someone in the pair leaves. So leaving is the main mechanism, but the burden isn't 100% on that person

I think he misunderstood how the setup works for real and it screwed how he was reading people. But could u explain how the misunderstanding confirms Gent 9 as town to me like i'm five, Seal Lady 6? pretty please?

[Lady 8]

What I'm not understanding about Gent 9 is, even if he thought we only had one execution and thought leaving was the main mechanism, I don't see how that puts extreme emphasis on sorting your partner

If leaving is the main mechanism, our win condition is based almost entirely on pairs being able to sort each other accurately. Even if consensus is that someone in a pair is scum, if that scum read's partner doesn't think so, the game suddenly becomes nearly impossible to win.

I don't think Gentleman 9 is confirmed as town. However, I do think that such a misunderstanding of the setup would have been corrected by his teammates (as scum) long before now. It tracks with his previous arguments and pushes on people. His sudden realization now of his misunderstanding also doesn't strike me as planned or faked. Could it be? Uh maybe. But I read it as genuine and I just highly doubt he's scum with how long he's carried that misunderstanding and played true to it.

That is a good point that if he were scum he'd have a higher chance of making that mistake while discussing their plans and having it corrected. And it's really unlikely to me that the misunderstanding realization was planned. He definitely played true to it.

I don't know if it's impossible he could genuinely misunderstand the setup as scum too, but I agree it makes him look better for it. Especially when some of what I disliked about him gets explained by him just genuinely not reading the game right

[Lady 8]

i think it's a safe assumption that gentleman 7 is not talking much in the scum PT, yeah

Damn that's true LOL

I'm nervous about this townslip thing. if the scum pt is pretty quiet it could just not come up? G7.bandana wouldn't be talking that much

He's posted in the PT in a way not inconsistent with that misunderstanding and has been more interested in posting about the relative probabilities of us leaving eachother rather than discussing other pairs

I guess it just erases my reasons for scum reading him in that most of his earlier pushes seemed nonsensical. I can actually see the town motivation behind his posts better now.

Thinking about it that way, it makes a lot more sense now. I don't know why I wasn't getting that before. Obviously his pushes that seemed like weird stretches can be explained by the misunderstanding rather than a scummy mindset, I see

I'll be back later tonight, Miss Worldwide 5!

Pedit: gENT 5 HI and see you another time !!

[Lady 8]

I think it was probably jumping the gun calling Gent 9 an endgame pair for that.

But at the same time I sort of want to forgive his sins for some of his pushes I didn't understand

Okay L8 I think I’m ready to talk to you please hit me up next time you’re around!

hi!!

Gent 9, you crazy. It felt like you were flailing against Lady Seal 6 in 2223, and also started flailing against my man by accusing him out of the blue in 2227 and 2229. Yesterday you had us at the top but today you dropped us because you think he's attacking you in bad faith and townread me too quickly. :I

But! Apparently you misunderstood the setup though. Am i understanding this right that is what caused you to suspect Gent 3 and Gent 5? Or am i misunderstanding

But like, I don't really know if that absolves how his playstyle today has been coming off as somewhat flail-y/accuse-y to me.

His suspicion towards Seal Lady 6 / Gent 3 seemed to be rooted in that misunderstanding, so I think I forgive that

The fact that you are just blanketing over seems incredibly disengenuous.
VOTE: L6-g3

Even if I have 0 idea what this means.

His insistence that G3 is scummy for being unhappy that his town reads weren't pairing with his town reads is... a logical argument I do not follow. I also didn't really think his attack on Gentleman 5 earlier in the game was very believable. Like I don't think it takes a lot of legwork to understand why G5 might've thought L8 was someone he could A. sort well, B. get along with, C. have some doubts about, and D. value that criteria enough to make a proposal when he did

This game is not standard mafia in which pairing matters a whole ton compared. Understanding why 5 would want to pair with 8 is critical. And I think G3 is a good player to understand the nuance of town scum matches are not necessarily bad, but he's lumping them all trivially in the same bucket

Eeeeeeeee the misunderstanding explains why he hounded Gent 5 and Gent 3. Which I wasn't really liking much. I don't know, I suppose it's a net positive for him but I'm unsure who my favourite elim would be instead.

[Lady 8]

Why would scum go out of their way to correct that?
Unless you think that's something they would have brought up in the scum PT, which I just disagree with you on.
I just don't see scum playeres correcting scum buddies who make mistakes in thread inside their PTs, unless the mistake hurts the team overall.

That's a good point. They wouldn't go out of their way to correct it unless it was a PT convo. And regarding whether or not it'd be brought up in the PT..

The misunderstanding as I'm.. understanding it is as such: "I thought only one pair could be eliminated in each vote phase, so I thought leaving was the main mechanism of catching mafia."

Is there something scum would discuss sometime during the game in private where he would have the opportunity to show he has this misunderstanding. I kinda.. don't know. It doesn't change a lot of conversations, people still get eliminated, there's still two dances, he gets all of that right. He'd have to go out of his way to say to mention there's only one elimination. Don't know how likely it'd be

And then he might not even get corrected, either by scum not noticing or not caring. I seriously doubt Gent 7 would have been around much to talk, so depends on the other player. Maybe they would notice/care to, maybe not

[Lady 8]

Meanwhile G3 already has figured out my credit card information and is forging my passport as we speak.

Gent 3, do you think you have a decent idea of who I am?

This is mostly because I'm curious but I also want to know if, in that case, did you know who I was before your scumread on me?

[Lady 8]

I like Gent 1's replacement, Nagito. I get the feeling he's trying his best to help solve the game.

I think given the information he had, he made a fair scumread on Lady 1, even though he had the timeframe off. Once I corrected him on the timeframe he agreed that there wasn't really an agenda like he thought there was.

Maybe as scum he doesn't try to push someone immediately without being certain he got the facts straight. Eh, it's not a lot. I liked Sans alright too though. It'd be quite handy if Nagito ends up being an obvious townie to match Lady 7

Chaos Gent 6 still unsure on. Soccer gent 4 same. Really wish Gent 9's "townslip" could have been an actual thing so he could've matched Lady 3 to make a great obvtown pair. I think had that been true, they would have made for possibly the very best endgame pair like Lady 6 jumped to believe

[Lady 8]

i just want someone to be scummy so I can have at least one scumread

[Lady 8]

i just want someone to be scummy so I can have at least one scumread

Do you ever play a game about lies and deception, but you struggle because you assume everyone acts out of good faith?
I feel you ghost, I feel you.

;'(

I feel like whenever I have scumreads it's just me looking at the two out of thirty people that I don't townread and imagining what they're doing if they're scum, and then kinda accusing them of doing that when in reality I'm just conf biased cause I started with the premise of them being scum rather than looking at it objectively

it's total bull, I tell you!!

At least, early game scumreads are like that anyway. Lategame stuff usually clicks better.

[Lady 8]

I keep a close watch over my man, do not worry!! We actively discuss whatever he's probing in the thread and come to conclusions together! He also makes comments on things that coincide with my first thoughts on them, as well

Gent 1 and 6 are slots we're very curious about as well, in addition to Gent 4

I agree that philosophy wise I agree with a lot of Gent 9's arguments... but he's taking that disagreement with people a step further kind of in determining their alignments. I think Gent 3 is town and there's a fairly good chance there's scum on the other side attacking him, but I don't think it's Lady 1-- my first guess would be Gent 9. Agree Lady 3 is town

hi two comments

1 - Is this your way of saying that you suspect the three gentlemen? Or that you have discussed them

2 - did you misunderstand the setup as well until I pointed out/at any point? I don't see why you would agree with my arguments otherwise. This is not consistent with L6 and L7 and L3 in which they forcefully pointed out that they don't agree with me at all. And if you agree with my arguments then why do you gradually scumread me more and more as the day went on?

Those three are at the bottom of my PoE-- we've discussed them though yeah

I understood dance 1 ends when there's 12 players left. The philosophy of yours I agreed with was that Gent 5's reasoning for wanting to pair with me was valid when you were arguing that against Gent 3. Your carrying that over into suspecting Gent 3, your somewhat OMGUS of Gent 5, and your "blanket" comment on Seal Lady 6 are all things I disagreed with.

No way you're voting Lady 6 with a straight face! Not to mention I don't even understand the reason!

Blanketing over I mean like turn a blind eye towards and making generalizations when it doesn't apply to a specific case. I don't understand why voting her is strange

What's the basis on your town read on L6?

Gent 7 interactions. I think in her pair the only potential scum is Gent 3. Her wall was good (as in i agree with the large majority of it). I think her jumping to call you confirmed town from that "slip" has no obvious scum benefit to her, at all, unless you're scum together.

She's also very cute!

[Lady 8]

Coloring townblock vs not Green vs Blue gives me...

Gentleman 9 - Lady 3

Gentleman 5

-

Lady 8

Gentleman 1

-

Lady 7

Gentleman 8 - Lady 5

Gentleman 3

-

Lady 6

Gentleman 6

-

Lady 1
Gentleman 4 - Lady 2
Gentleman 2 - Lady 4

As such, I believe 9-3 and 8-5 should be two of the three endgame pairings.

Ideally, we need one more SOLID pairing though. Time to start digging into specifics....

Sell me on Gent 9! Already agree with Ladies 5 and 7

[Lady 8]

Okay, I buy it. G6/L1 is now my favorite pair.

I buy 2501 being town, not your crackpot theory lol

It's certainly plausible and it would explain why G2 and G7 were acting so weird. But I wouldn't say it's especially likely.

Hmm, I think i like these thoughts for Lady 2 town, I'm not sure if it benefits scum Lady 2 to locktown Gent 6/Lady 1.

Get it? Because- well actually, I don't believe her avatar depicts a ghost or a spirit, but I'm too far gone to change my ways now. And I like the macabre vibe in any case. I think that she believes that this is a good first pair elimination

It's a fine pair to eliminate because I don't see wanting them in the endgame. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility one flips scum and if they are going to I'd rather we learn that now than later

i LOVE Gent 5 and 6's meme posts. ok

i dislike G6's readslist esp his self-towncase based on replacement (which is ???)

i have too many scumreads ugh
but they're all confined to three pairs which is nice

We think really differently in that case. I find it less likely scum Gent Chaos 6 decides to towncase the replacement

i understand why our pair is being voted and it pisses me off cuz I like this game but whatever
G2 can't be allowed to live to endgame

Ugh I'm unhappy it worked out like that for you

[Lady 8]

You want to talk to me about Gent 9's 'towntell'? I don't think it was one although I'm inclined to think he actually did have that misunderstanding as it explains his fixation on reasons for people partnering with each other

I think if it is a scum gambit, I'm not sure he could have reasonably expected him to gain much towncred from it. I didn't have the reaction Seal Lady 6 had, and I didn't understand why she had hers until i had her explain it to me

[Lady 8]

hi I read everyone's* isos

*i didnt read Ladies 3/4/7

Spoiler: Gent 5

I like Gent 5’s justification for proposing to me. It wasn’t fully rooted in gameplay but also because he fancied me. I do not believe there was any scum motivation to propose to me then, I was a hard nullread for most of the thread at that time. Gent 5 slightly townread me, liked me, and decided we would work well together -- or that he could catch me if I was deceiving him.

Posts like 441 and especially 497 made me feel he was always thinking about the possibility of me being scum. He still reevaluates me and lets me know what he finds on me in the PT

Our thoughts line up a lot and I’m certain that’s not something he’s doing intentionally. If either of us were to be purposefully trying to pocket the other, it’d likely be me, but I’m not. (See my 1136 and his 1736)

I love my man!!!!

Spoiler: Gent 3 // Lady 6

I have no idea what Gent 3 finds so scummy about me. That being said, Gent 5 also felt a scum tone coming off from my 168 / 197 like Gent 3 did so I’m willing to believe it’s a real thing. I’m not put off by his scumread of me at least.

I don’t have a huge opinion on Gent 3’s day 2. I disagree with his confidence in Gent 9 being town (when he agreed with Seal Lady 6 in 2436). Lady 6 believes there is a large chance Gent 3 is town from their PT as outlined in her wall post, and I'm willing to trust her on that

-

I believe Lady 6’s interactions with Gent 7 point to her being much more likely town than not. I don’t *think* both scum are paired together, and if this is so, the only potential scum in this pairing is Gent 3 for me. I quite like her thoughts she pours out in her wall. Outside of her wall, I still tend to agree with her reads at the time she made them. Like Lady 5 strong town yesterday (1144) and this list of suspects (1170) to name a couple i see

1406 and 1531 are decent interactions with Gent 7 that aren’t related to him pairing with her

Her jumping to call Gent 9 town from his slip (where she was previously heavily suspecting him) was good, I don’t think scum!Lady 6 benefits from that.

Spoiler: Gent 6 // Lady 1

I still lightly like Gent 6’s replaceout but I wont focus much on that. Gent 6 has a lot of charisma, the thread has that right! I somewhat like his line of approach to Lady 1 (For example, he said he’ll yeet her if he doesnt like her -> she urges him to propose -> he says he townreads Lady 1 for wanting to be with him despite proclaiming he’ll yeet her. Decent interaction imo).

His comments on wanting G2 over G7 are somewhat good in hindsight (1650/1651), but only slightly. He supports Gent 2 moving on, but this comes after G7’s last real post. It’s possible Gent 7 had given up in the scum PT before this point and he was directed to support G2. I somewhat wonder why the flippant attitude argument applied to G2 but not G7.

Gent 6 points out that scum might want to give up on Gent 7 and bus him in those last hours. Which is interesting considering he would be one of those players, but I agree with him on it.

I have the same locktown ladies as him in his readslist. I am highly curious why he places Gent 9 in the towny tier. And I’m in that tier too! I can’t wait to hear about it

-

Lady 1 plays pretty loose and just kinda says reads as she goes even if there’s not a lot behind them. Like she out of the blue locktown pairs early in the game (450). I townread her kind of style of play.

I think the editing of her avatar to include the crown along with her mindset towards pairing w/ the IC in 529 is decently towny. She was somewhat suggested to be with the IC, and she took that and ran. At that point in the game after she did that I thought it was really likely she’d be paired with the IC, and I want to say she did too.

I think she hard defended Gent 7 too hard end of day to be scum with him. Had he survived past that day, and been killed off later, I think we would’ve looked back and criticized Lady 1 harder for that decision. It certainly would look bad in an end game scenario -- I’d expect scum to call both Gent 2 and 7 equal, but maybe give a tiny reason for one or the other. Not a hard pull to save 7, as there certainly wasn’t any good reason for doing that. I lean much more that it was just a random town gutread moment

Nothing about Lady 1 today bothers me

Spoiler: Gent 1 // Lady 7

I jumped the gun early game thinking Gent 1 Sans townslipped forgetting there’s a NK. I still vaguely like Sans but not for a lot of reasoning, he was mostly joking around or giving short reads.

I like Nagito’s first push on Lady 1, I think from the information he had it wasn’t a bad read. And he reevaluated when I corrected him on it. He feels alright to me so far

-

I’ve felt pretty town from Lady 7 all game. I think in her case, the extremely high effort is town indicative. I don’t think this is really this read is controversial so I’m not ISOing her, I am 100% convinced the only possible scum in this pairing would be Gent 1 Nagito

Spoiler: Gent 9 // Lady 3

I don’t have much of an opinion on Gent 9’s early D1. I think his misunderstanding of the setup explains why he was so interested in Gent 5’s join up with me. His only interaction with Gent 7 that I see is he preferred Lady 4 pair with him in his poem.

I disagree with a lot of his takes today, namely thinking it’s obviously Lady 1 (1877), thinking her princess crown stuff was bad (1884), and i didnt like his negative response towards Gent 5 and Seal Lady 6 suspecting him. Like yesterday he had me and Gent 5 at the top, but he turned that around on a dime cause he suspected Gent 5 cleared me too quickly. Which does make more sense given his misunderstanding though I guess

At first I was just starting to suspect him because I never agreed with any of his takes, now I’m not really putting any weight into that. I’m kinda in limbo with him but he’s not a pick I prefer over some other Gents

-

Lady 3 I feel really good about being town.. the early accept, the catchup from the slot, and several other moments felt like they screamed town to me. Definitely not the scum in this pair if there is any. Like lady 7 i didnt reISO her

Spoiler: Gent 4 // Lady 2

Not a lot of stuff I find AI about Gent 4’s early game.

Does not include Gent 7 in his “could be scum pool” (1579), but includes Gent 2. The Gent 7 / Lady 4 potential pair was in his “maybe” to endgame, as well, because he didnt think either were scum. I don’t know how to feel about this exactly, I don’t really see what his argument for Gent 7 was.

It does feel kind of like a random town gutread (since he scumread Gent 2, he would probably assume the other is town). I would expect him to include Gent 7 in his scumpool as scum. This isn’t really super strong but it feels like scum would be more aware that he's omitting his partner for not much reason there

-

There’s nothing bad about Lady 2 imo. I agree with her a healthy amount, I think her very short posting playstyle was probably confused for being scummy earlier in the game

She vaguely suggests a G7 flip could be more informational given his proposal to L6 in 1365. She agrees with Lady 7 reasoning on wanting him dead in 1445, which probably played a decent role in sealing his fate. I quite like her justification for picking Gent 4 in 2122, I think her point that Gent 4 doesn’t seem to be playing for the long term holds water.

I lightly like Lady 2 having L1/G6 as her favourite pair in 2519, I’m not sure there’s a good reason for scum to want to hard town block those two for something as ‘small’ as G6’s 2501.

Spoiler: Gent 2 // Lady 4

Gent 2 wanting Gent 6 and Lady 5 to pair up, and then nuke the rest of the players who are unpaired (which includes Gent 7) seems like a point in his favour.

968 makes no sense at all as an argument for Gent 6 being in the final endgame pair. Not sure what that says.

Gent 2 calls Gent 7 / Lady 4 the game-winning pair, which Lady 7 pointed out is an odd thing to do if he’s scum with Gent 7 / Lady 4 -- but it’s not impossible he wanted to WIFOM us, i suppose. I guess it’s plausible he figured only town Gents were left, although idk why

I agree with Gent 5 that Gent 2 isn’t really saying much of anything today.

-

I'm tired of writing and I think if scum flips in this pair it'd be Gent 2

Town -> Cry Lady 1, Misty Lady 3, Salad Lady 4 (?), Seal Lady 6, Blue Lady 7, Skyrim Gent 5
----------
Slight Favour -> Nagito Gent 1, Sherlock Gent 3, Chaos Gent 6
Unsure -> Rosalina Lady 2, Glasses Gent 2, Soccer Gent 4, Anime Gent 9

I can still think of reasons to like everyone in the bottom tiers just not as much as everyone else. Maybe not Gent 9. I feel dumb. Let me know which of my townread reasons are terrible

[Lady 8]

The thread is going so fast I had to press submit like four times

[Lady 8]

L8 do you have any actual scumreads?

no.

Well. Gent 9, maybe cause I have read things from Lady 2 / Gent 2 / Gent 4 that I felt seemed town, but not from him as far as i can recall

[Lady 8]

No, him attacking the weakest link of our pair.

Is there scum motivation behind pushing for your elimination? Or was there something about how he did it in particular

[Lady 8]

No, him attacking the weakest link of our pair.

Is there scum motivation behind pushing for your elimination? Or was there something about how he did it in particular

There's definitely motivation if the next in line is their buddy, which could be inside the G4/L2 pair.

I guess. Maybe if they flipped town/town and he started advocating for not eliminating G4/L2 that could hold weight

I don't see why the order would matter if he'll just go along with consensus and attack G4/L2 next in line, anyway, though, which is what I would expect to happen

[Lady 8]

Hey L8 wanna vote for G2-L4?

I kinda wish I was more excited about it. Although I was considering it until Lady 6 said this

I don't think we should move forward on any elimination before G3 pops in because he strongly town reads L4/G2 iirc and I'm interesting in what he has to say

[Lady 8]

Where would you look next if our pair flipped town-town?

Likely Gent 9. I think I'd also have to make sure Gent 5 is town (don't tell him tho it's very confidential)

Gent 4 / Lady 2 is possible as well but again, I'm not excited about them either

L8 did you go from I want to see L3-G9 as the endgame pair to G9 is the scummiest player on your readlist

I said I wanted L3/G9 to be the endgame pair?

I probably like Seal Lady 6 / Sherlock 3 the best, but a ton of the pairs are just split unevenly for me which is really frustrating. Maybe Chaos Gent 6 / Cry Lady 1 as well pending him finishing his reads

[Lady 8]

here's two posts

Spoiler:

could i get an idea of 2 non-me pairs people want to see live until endgame btw?

even if you've recently stated it and even if it might change pending flips/first dance/etc, just looking for a rough idea of the consensus at the moment

maybe i needed larger rainbow text to draw more attention

hmm

this was a general question for everyone if it weren't apparent

I like Gent 9/Lady 3 >> Gent 6/Lady 1 as my favourite pairings besides my own. The ladies are carrying it more than the gents, though.

Pedit: I absolutely like my own pairing the most though! I am very enamoured with Gent 5 atm

I don't want to hard defend someone all game and end up being wrong when people are telling me not to do it. It isn't making me think he is scum but it's making me think I should just depend on another pair and leave at some point so I can feel guilt free regarding this games result.

Unfortunately, if everyone feels this way it's not much of a game, now is it?

Damn I really felt that Lady 7. It's like when you're in a XYLO scenario and you know where what the dead town would want you to vote, but your heart is elsewhere. But you don't want to upset them if you're wrong

Hi Lady 8!

Can you talk about your read on me please? Looking through your ISO you've hedged a lot on my slot and I'm curious if you have any significant thoughts about my slot / my pairing

Hi Seal Lady 6! Yup I'm in full uncertainty mode on you. I don't have much of a read on your more recent posting, im sorry I dont have much

I think your endgame pair picks (G9/L3 + G1/L7) are decent, although i think I like my own pairing and possibly L1/G6 for consideration as well, I don't quite have G9 and G1 as high as you I take it

You find that inconsistent? I don't townread you in either of those posts. I still don't townread you, but I find stuff about L4/G4/G2 that i like on occasion, I guess. You calling yourself the "scummiest player on my readslist" is technically correct although it's not really a big chasm betwn you and the others

Do you see scummy motivation behind me considering you being scum, beyond it being inconsistent in your eyes?

[Lady 8]

Ok you seem to not be passionate about any scumread or push...

I'm only passionate about who I don't want. Who is most likely scum, not so much. I feel dumb but I don't know what I can do after reading through every ISO

[Lady 8]

i find it hard to believe that you would place a pair as your "favorite pair" if you don't townread one of the two.

on the motivation front? It's a strategy to just OwO the way through this game with a smitten partner, while being nice and friendly and happy with everyone to make it to endgame. this involves only weakly scumreading people who are under heat at the moment, which is something that I feel like you are doing. Now another explanation is that you are easily swayed by the excellent opinions by the participants of this ball, but your reads and posts themselves seem more consensus driven than any other player in the lobby

I was excluding my own pair / the IC pair i assume. There was no pair outside of those two where I hard townread both as far as i can remember. I really dont remember why i townread you up a bit higher than the other gents

I have the benefit of reading through everyone's ISOs and finding who I like the most in hindsight now, like Gent 4 / Lady 2 i found things i somewhat like that relate to Gent 7's flip

i don't do the cuteness stuff as a strategy ;-; I guess having weak reads that mostly stay around consensus is a good point. I'm unhappy about not finding scum but I'm not super surprised i didnt

[Lady 8]

Lady 8, if I leave and flip town, are you willing to leave the dance right next?

I mean.. i wouldn't mind getting out of here with him...

But in other words, do I think you being town equals Gent 5 being scum? No. I dont see the scum motivation to push you before Gent 4/Lady 2 that you see

I wouldnt leave the dance unless a large consensus voted for us (like X-2 X-1 range) and convinced me or at least decently shows why Gent 5 could be scum. Otherwise i dont really see why id use the leave mechanic

[Lady 8]

Shouldn't endgame:

Gentleman 9 - Lady 3
Gentleman 5 - Lady 8
Gentleman 4 - Lady 2

these suck

Eh. That leaves:

Gent 1 / Lady 7
Gent 3 / Lady 6
Gent 6 / Lady 1
(IC Pair)

All three of those ladies are town, and I think we're hitting at least one scum in the pairs he left out.

[Lady 8]

His actions right now seem oriented towards keeping an antitown status quo. We barely gain info on anything and so we don't get a solid pair for endgame.

By virtue of pushing for your elimination? Or is there more? I dont take issue with eliminating your pair.

I don't see what town loses eliminating your pair first, compared to what town gains eliminating a different one first.

[Lady 8]

His actions right now seem oriented towards keeping an antitown status quo. We barely gain info on anything and so we don't get a solid pair for endgame.

By virtue of pushing for your elimination? Or is there more? I dont take issue with eliminating your pair.

Town doesn't gain anything either because scum didn't leave their comfort zone.

But you agree you were going to be eliminated at some point. Why would we delay till later rather than get the flips now?

I guess I see what you're saying, you think we should have had people push for less consensus reads, see where people were inclined to go first before doing the LHFish elims.

I still dont see the scum motivation for Gent 5, given after a town flip from you, we'll go to that phase seeing who people are willing to push anyway. Just in a different order. I just don't see why the order is important for a scum Gent 5 to go for you first.

We have your flips in this scenario to work with as well so we dont have to constantly wonder if we're looking for 1 or 2 scum, if Gent 7 / Gent 2 are both scum, and whatever else. It seems like a better way of going about it to me.

[Lady 8]

Every hang after yours will be a nontrivial decision and it's hard for me to read into the motivations of G5 because I feel like your pair was always going to be pushed by town and scum.

That's pretty much why I'm not reading it. It was a foregone conclusion and I dont see why scum would favour pushing it early over town. Its not a move to save Gent 5's mate in another pair, cause this wagon would happen regardless of what other pairs are voted today (Which is a theory I recall gent 2 having)

[Lady 8]

Every hang after yours will be a nontrivial decision and it's hard for me to read into the motivations of G5 because I feel like your pair was always going to be pushed by town and scum.

That's pretty much why I'm not reading it. It was a foregone conclusion and I dont see why scum would favour pushing it early over town. Its not a move to save Gent 5's mate in another pair, cause this wagon would happen regardless of what other pairs are voted today (Which is a theory I recall gent 2 having)

Don't you think it is antitown for a wagon to be unreadable?

I guess it's less useful than a wagon that is readable, yeah? That doesnt change how the wagon has to happen, and there will be more helpful wagons following it.

How is it more pro-town to avoid flipping you till the very end of the day? If you are the preferred wagon, I dont see how its helpful to ignore you and push less preferred, but also less consensus wagons first, rather than the other way around.

If anything, Gent 5 somewhat reading you as scummy and aggressively pushing your wagon comes off as better to me since theres no reason for scum to do anything more than be "Meh" on it, assuming you're town.

[Lady 8]

If you're town and you're doing nothing, am I really scummy for pushing you?

I don't know. Looks like Gent 5 is somehow trying to mine cred.

That more or less just looked like challenging your read as being just a weak OMGUS, I dont think he was suggesting he's town for it

I think what Gent 2 is hoping for is for somebody to come in and say that his reaction is really towny and for the wagon to fall apart

This is the worst post I have read in regards to this wagon.

I'm willing to hear more abt this

[Lady 8]

If you're town and you're doing nothing, am I really scummy for pushing you?

I don't know. Looks like Gent 5 is somehow trying to mine cred.

That more or less just looked like challenging your read as being just a weak OMGUS, I dont think he was suggesting he's town for it

Falselu saying I did nothing and coming off with better cred for bothering to push a mislynch. The kind of false confidence I see scum build lately in games.

Hm, maybe scum builds up a ton of confidence in miselims to seem towny, sure

2694 is one of his big posts against you. I don't disagree with any of it, I wouldn't say it's false. Essentially you were making vague statements about how the game isn't as easy as just you being scum, but there isn't any reason to believe that over the game being harder. It doesn't prove you're scum but he doesnt claim that

He explicitly says he's not convinced you're scum in 2911 but doesn't see why your response can't be from scum, and he doesn't townread you

And in 2913 he says your read on him is shallow and he isn't scummy for pushing you like you seem to believe

I still don't see this as a grab for towncred

[Lady 8]

After we flip, G4-L2 is going to be next, right?

If the totem pole remains the same and we follow it, probably.

I thought you wanted us to do G9 or G5 and avoid following consensus, though. Wouldn't your argument against those wagoning you then, in turn, apply to those who go after G4/L2 next?

[Lady 8]

I don't want to act like town can't have some fun or make posts that aren't game advancing. Town does quite a bit, but G1 has quite a volume of fluff compared to the other posts he's made. And when he does make game observations, they just seem milque-toast? His town reads are L7 and L5. And he scum reads L1. He's also shaded G4. He also seems perfectly happy with this level of understanding. Despite the wagon on Lady 4/Gent 2 ramping up, he's taken no interest in understanding it or offering an opinion on it. Like, I'd expect a townie to see the VC and at least be like "Okay guys what's the case on this pair?" but he's content to just post a few times about random stuff and then disappear, presumably waiting for the wagon to go through and then he can push more on G4 or something.

I think your summary of Gent 1 is fine and fair, although I'm not sure it's distinctly scummy over just being town not terribly involved with the game.

Spoiler: Gent the 9th

I think most of what I have for town reading this slot has been covered by prior posts of mine, so don't mind me lazily quoting them back in here...

You want to talk to me about Gent 9's 'towntell'?

Yeah, actually.

I am approaching from a "What would I do if I were scum in this setup" and if I were going to misread-the-setup gambit I'd sure as hell not have done it this way.

There's quite a bit of potential downside to misreading the setup ploys. If you are going to use it, you want to use it early, cash some towncred within the first phase (pre-dance) and use that to gain a partner. Making "scumreads" based upon it seems like incredibly high risk... and I'm not a risk adverse gambiter by any means, but there's no upside here. The potential gains form this gambit is entry to the dance if you expected not to make it. However, he was literally in the dance by page 5. Why continue this gambit with no new upsides for nearly another 90 pages of fast-paced content?


As for the "Well, what if he's scum and just flat out misread the setup" then to believe that reality, you have to go along that:

A: The other scum never discussed optimal play for this setup
B: Guy the 9th never planed for optimal play in the setup in his scum PT
C: Guy the 9th never asked about the setup spec the town was doing in the PT


I just don't buy A B and C happening simultaneously this far into the game, even though we flipped a total lurksack in guy the 7th. If for some reason this is true, the third hypothetical partner would also be a lurksack, or flying under the radar/coasting, in Guy the 3rd, Guy the 2nd, or something of the like. And I get the feeling guy the 3rd could be ruled out as a partner here because a scumteam with guy the 3rd on it has a university master's thesis paper on playing the setup optimally on it the day he replaced in.

There are a few minor other points in favor of townreading Sir the 9th. One of the most recent was this post:

G6 are you intentionally changing styling up so ctrl - fing your iso would be harder

Which is what I got instead of any sort of acknowledgement of the towncase I'd just made (see above) for him. If you're scum and somebody is advocating for you hard, do you really poke them on minor technicality bullshit?

I don't think it's a gambit at all. He misread the setup and pursued sort of weird angles on Gent 5/3 because of it. I don't think anyone else thinks it's a gambit either from what I remember. As for your second half:

Spoiler: A/B

I think it's agiven Gent 7 didn't discuss optimal play in the scum PT. However, ignoring that, here's the specific misunderstanding:

"I thought there was only one voted elimination per dance, and the rest of eliminations were done by pairs leaving."

From this misunderstanding, Gent 9 would likely put a lot of emphasis on picking the right partner in his advice/discussing with other scum, I'd imagine. However-- would that interfere with optimal play discussions?

I'm guessing that scum wants a partner who will A.) get townread and B.) will townread the scum. I don't see how Gent 9's misunderstanding would pop up in that conversation-- those things are true regardless of the elimination method because leaving is a thing in his misunderstanding world and in reality.

What I'm trying to say is, I think it's possible an opportunity to correct him could arise, but it's easily possible it didn't. It doesn't take 3 separate things aligning, I think all three of your points are very similar

As for C, what do you mean by setup spec the town is doing? Was there a moment in the game where we discussed how eliminations work, and if so, why would he ask about it in the PT?

Your last point is fair enough lol

[Lady 8]

I'm in total agony trying to read this game. It's like trying to find a needle in huuge haystack

4. I don't think post 650 happens as partners with Guy the 7th. Not when you could easily go back and "I like the recent posts from guy the 7th, and now accept"

I think I'm inclined to agree as long as there's at least one scum in the first 3 pairs (which rn I think there's one tops).

This doesn't mean 0 scum there makes L6 scum, I want to establish this now just so it doesn't get taken this way after my death.

I just feel like the specific thing G6 is saying in the quoted part is reliant on that being the case.

The bolded here sticks out as gut towny to me, I quite like the mindset to ensure his reads aren't taken the wrong way post mortem

I'm really sorry I'm not getting decent scumreads. I'm usually not great with getting them early on but there being so few scum with this many people is just making it worse.

Nothing I read is super useful for changing my townreads either, I just kind of have the same people in the townblock as i have had and am *fine* with pairs I don't townread but I can't point to who I think would be more likely to flip scum in Gent 4 / Lady 2, for example

[Lady 8]

What did you expect me to say as town?

Lady 5 is still town.

Lady 7 is my top townread and Gent 1 looks good actually.

Gent 6 is pretty alright and Lady 1 seemed villagery.

I don't feel paranoid enough about Lady 6 yet and I'm willing to trust them on Gent 3 if they're town.

Lady 4 seemed willing to die by expressing a scumread on me.

That leaves exactly the three pairs I always mentioned:
Gentleman 9 - Lady 3
Gentleman 5 - Lady 8
Gentleman 4 - Lady 2

Plenty of these players have the potential to flip scum. I think the game should end with these lynches. Hence I'm willing to vote any of them.

Lady 8's deal was unexpected because I fear losing credibility if I am wrong

My deal?

But in any case I don't hate those reads at all. If I could blow up those 3 pairs I would. Lady 5/7 are town, I can handle Gent 6/1 pretty good, and that is literally the same way I approach Lady 6 / Gent 3.

I'd swap my pair with yours, but if I assume your pair is town, those reads are perfect.

If we cut out those three pairs, and also your own pair, we'd be left with:

Gent 8 - Lady 5

Gent 1 - Lady 7
Gent 6 - Lady 1
Gent 3 - Lady 6

I am nearly certain 1 scum is taken out, but also a good chance of both. If there's still 1 scum left in this endgame, I think there's a huge chance it's one of the Gents who has just played pretty well and we just need one of the town Gents to obvtown, remove the rest, and we win.

[Lady 8]

also i've been mulling over why you made lady 8 that offer and really the only conclusion i came to is that you never expected her to say yes so you never had to worry about it and you were just saying it to look like you were willing to sacrifice your life over your beliefs

i've been trying to think about whether you'd have said that as town, especially after all your stuff about how we should vote out instead of leaving, and i just can't reconcile your supposed willingness to leave with other things you've said about it, ergo i think it was just an act

That would be a serious misread of me on his part, I was practically fainting at the offer when i first read it

[Lady 8]

also i've been mulling over why you made lady 8 that offer and really the only conclusion i came to is that you never expected her to say yes so you never had to worry about it and you were just saying it to look like you were willing to sacrifice your life over your beliefs

i've been trying to think about whether you'd have said that as town, especially after all your stuff about how we should vote out instead of leaving, and i just can't reconcile your supposed willingness to leave with other things you've said about it, ergo i think it was just an act

That would be a serious misread of me on his part, I was practically fainting at the offer when i first read it

He's talking about Gent 2, not me

Oh duh. I just asked a question about his deal, too. Sigh

I will read more carefully

[Lady 8]

we just need one of the town Gents to obvtown, remove the rest, and we win.

I don't know how much more I gotta do on this.

I'm TRYING but this game is trying to kill me, my sleep is suffering to effort post.

<3

You're not bad at all but that prooobably means almost nothing coming from me

[Lady 8]

lady 3 always looks so happy and i can't help but smile when i see her post

then lady 1 posts and... ... ...

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN

bahahahaha

[Lady 8]

I get the sense from Gent 2's posting recently that he's trying to solve the game-- what I mean about that is, I think it's a mostly foregone conclusion that Gent 2 is flipping soon. I think Gent 2 knows that as well.

Detailing plans for who should and shouldnt be in the endgame, trying to strike a deal with me, stuff like that feels unnecessary if he's just about to flip red. And also could potentially be hurting his partner too giving so much extra info. It's sort of like in a regular game when someone is at L-1 and they're obviously going to die-- scum would probably favour giving up to not expose anything to help us find their partner, town will try to dictate what we should do next

In Gent 7's case it was kind of LAMISTy/WIFOMy to save himself (it was just a 1v1), whereas here I don't get the feeling Gent 2 is trying to save himself by WIFOMing us out. I don't think he can and I dont think he thinks he can either. He'd have to push so many miselims, whereas in Gent 1's case he just had to beat out one person.

I also am pretty much fine with his picks for the endgame, if I assume his pair is T/T.

I don't know if that all makes sense. Lady 4 I also think is town i believe.

I have much less strong feelings on G4/L2. Some things by Gent 4 I vaguely like on occasion but it's not big things. Lady 2 I feel I'm being unfair to, especially now that she's V/LA atm.

But I'm much not enjoying this current gamestate where it kind of feels like we're playing as if we only have one shot, where in reality we can knock out like 90% of the players. I know this is my fault too for not deciding on my favourite flavour of ice cream or whatever, im very sorry for that. It's vanilla tho btw

VOTE: Gent 4 / Lady 2

[Lady 8]

I think Lady 3 disagrees with me that theres no scum benefit to trying to stay alive just a little bit longer as Gent 2 does (all while giving a whole host of analysis and interactions). Personally I think that's hurting scum Gent 2 and looks more like town Gent 2 trying to win after death, but I suppose it's not solid. I get the point that scums job is to stay alive at all costs and WIFOMing us out is one way

In any case, if the prince votes Gent 2 I will join him to seal it. Up to him!

[Lady 8]

How is G2 different from G7?

G7 just had to beat out G2 using some spur of the moment LAMIST self sacrificey talk. Also the closer he got to dying, the more he started complaining more than anything. He didn't have any reasoning for why he wanted certain people to endgame, he just kept giving one-liners about how he was annoyed or simple statements like "This post pings me negatively." or "The 5-8 pairings look lile the best candidates".

Whereas I think G2 is dying here no matter what, so there's really no benefit to posts like 3414 (where he lays out his reads on the entire game) or that post where he tries to strike a deal with me to leave after he leaves. I don't think scum Gent 2 is gaining anything because he can't save himself by making these posts.

And yeah there's the possibility that's just what scum Gent 2 wants us to think. Well played on him but also he's still going to die so I don't know what the point was. All of the posts lose credibility after he flips red (obviously) and we can use them to find his partner easier. I don't feel like there's a benefit to staying alive for just a little bit longer for scum Gent 2, whereas it makes sense if he's town

Granted, some of his posts are kind of in that same feel as Gent 7 wifom. Like this one:

After we flip, G4-L2 is going to be next, right?

This seems like something Gent 2 would say as an obvious wifom tactic, and I didn't really get where it came from. So I'm not convinced in this read but it's enough for me to have him go second, sure.

[Lady 8]

I find the whole WIFOM argument quite circular.
VOTE: G2/L4

Yeah probably

Lady the 8th, it is time to eat your ice cream.

Hold on lemme psych myself up

[Lady 8]

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if I'm wrong on him

We don't care about waiting for Sherlock's input anymore, do we? Gent 5 I know is okay with it and I assume Gent 8 is from his last couple posts

pedit: thank u gent 9

[Lady 8]

Being a kitten isn't so bad

[Lady 8]

That being said

VOTE: Gent 2 / Lady 4

[Lady 8]

I.. meant to do that

[Lady 8]

;_;

[Lady 8]

Gent 4's sort of reversal on Gent 5 makes me wonder if he is in fact trying to solve the game. I would have thought the obvious move for scum!Gent 4 is to attack Gent 5, saying Gent 5 is getting better in his reads recently is very interesting to me considering I think Gent 4 was the one to implicate Gent 5 first

I don't like the people who seemed complacent with 4-2 hangs after pre dance.

is this largely why you don't like L1?

sort of, and the open wolfing posts don't help at all.
G5 has also sorta open wolfed with his meme posts wanting to get G2/L4 hanged.

The L1 open-wolfing posts are.. definitely something.

Earlier when you said that Gent 5 seemed like he was cocky scum making meme posts about eliminating G2/L4-- what about them makes you want to attach scum to them? I didn't get what made it more likely for scum to get cocky and post memes on a miselim, rather than just town memeing. Especially considering we were having so much difficulty getting an elimination off.

[Lady 8]

Gent 4's sort of reversal on Gent 5

has this happened or is my reading comprehension bad

yup

G4's biggest thing is he comes up with reasons live not overtime.

Learn the wolfy difference

I think I would be more careful as a wolf instead of doing stuff like this, just saying. Also, my read on G5 didn’t really come up on the spot I was suspicious of him since maybe two days ago, and I also never really townread L8. It’s unfair to say that it came out of the blue.
To be honest, I’m less confident in scumreading G5 after last night, but I do think I could justify the initial scum read given some time. I don’t really think this would be helpful though because I would then be wanting to look for reasons G5 was scum instead of actually giving him a real evaluation.
I am considering compiling reads, but I really don’t think it matters too much. Also, you want me to leave the dance because you can’t read me? Well that’s sorta dumb, and the only scenario where I ever leave the dance is when/if you guys convince me that Lady 2 is scum.
Bottom line is that I think what I did with G5 was just a bad mafia habit which is getting reads in my head but never really able to justify them(but I do believe in the reads). Like I would say I’m leaning town on G9 right now, but I couldn’t tell you why. The thing is, I don’t really see myself doing such a thing where I put out reads I can’t exactly explain as mafia, but it’s up to you to believe that.

I'm not sure how much I agree with that vote even though I was scumreading him. His iso seems ok upon a glance, and you might be conf biased with G1 tbh. What were the bad interactions with G7?

[Lady 8]

This game feels very tough in its own unique way. I find Gent 4's behaviour yesterday really good.

It wasn't "survivalist" because survivalism would mean G4 votes for his counter wagon or goes for a target where there is more interest like G3 or G9. and like I would argue scum generally are very careful about making sure they can justify all of their reads (a common newb scum tell is that they over justify every single read) instead of just making random gut pushes

I agree with this

I think Gent 4 is voting who he actually thinks has the best chance of flipping scum at whatever given moment in time even if he can't explain it. His switch to Lady 1 today feels good

I still don't know anything about Lady 2 which sucks though

At this moment in time, I am not sure who I want. I feel there's now a sizable chance the two pairs being considered atm (Gent 4 / Lady 2 + Gent 5 / Lady 8) are both all town, assuming Lady 2 is town. That's not great

Gent 5 shared this feeling with me in our PT at the same time I had it too.

[Lady 8]

Also I townread Chaos Gent 6's previous few pages of posts. He's great

[Lady 8]

Also I townread Chaos Gent 6's previous few pages of posts. He's great

I kneejerk react to blatant toenreads of myself with "why is this person able to do so" and tend to suspect.

I clearly need to remember that self esteem is for everyone. Even chaosgents.

I just realized I think the team is exactly G1/G5

I really wanted it to be Guy the 2nd and Guy the 3rd for major ego.

But town guy the 2nd blows that theory up....

Hope your hubby comes home soon... it doesn't take THAT long to go to the corner store for cigs and a pint of milk.

this is the main one that townpinged me. The somewhat certainty in a Gent 2 scumflip + The reveal of exactly who you thought the scumteam was prior to the flip feels good

I think if we can prove Lady 1 is town we can make L1/G6 endgame. Obviously same with Gent 1 in G1/L7 but I have less strong feelings about him

[Lady 8]

@L8
why am I town instead of scum who was caught over extending on G5?

You didn't have reasons lined up for suspecting Gent 5 much-- like the meme thing was kind of more of a gut/pingy reason, I'd expect better justification than that.

I think you could have kept suspecting Gent 5 just fine as well, plenty of people do. It's somewhat odd that you wouldn't, you could have gotten away just fine without saying you reconsidered the read after reading more of his posts. It just pings me that you are trying to find scum, as you being flipped green while still suspecting G5 likely leads into his elimination, and you want to be sure that's actually your first pick

Over-extending scum, I don't know though. I don't see why you'd need to pull back when no one was really calling you wrong.

I think if we can prove Lady 1 is town we can make L1/G6 endgame.

Why is Lady 1 town?

That is the question I'd like to answer, yes.

[Lady 8]

I already thought Lady 1 is town but she's lower than a couple other ladies. My theory on her was that she defended Gent 7 too hard, and I generally don't take issue with her posting

After the predance I forget a lot of what she's done so far. I know she's supported the removal of both 2/4's but I don't know if that says anything yet

[Lady 8]

That is the question I'd like to answer, yes.

It was more directed at you. She's a top town read of yours, no?

Yeah but I don't think my read of hers has updated since the beginning of today and I prefer Ladies 3/5/7 over her

[Lady 8]

I probably prefer you too. Yeah that's quite annoying but I townread probably nearly every lady.

I'm going to read her posts, find something vaguely towny, and get confused now

[Lady 8]

G4 can you leave now so I don't have to pretend I'm interested in reading your slot anymore. I've resigned to the fact you're going so just get it over with for me and make a read wall or something and accept it thanks.
pedit: Thank you G5 my god tier reads won't fail you

This is a mood-- it seems like a lot of her posts are just being exasperated we can't get an elim, so that's probably why she voted interchangeably betw the 2/4 pairs.

If I were going somewhat less effort due to not enjoying or for whatever other reason, I'd probably do that too. Doesn't help me much getting a read though

I just remembered someone asked me a question about Gent 5 and my PT

Gent 5 shared this feeling with me in our PT at the same time I had it too.

Has anything in the PT affected your read of G5? If so can you paraphrase or summarize what it was specifically?

Spoiler: pt recap

Coming into the first day we had a burst where we discussed where our reads stood. We agreed Gents 1, 6, and 9 were good targets to try and read so they can match their ladies in towniness.

Gent 5 asked me about the odds Gent 7 and Lady 6 orchestrated that fake proposal, I gave him my analysis of it, and he agreed with me and incorporated it into his reads

We constantly bounce back and forth on all the priority Gents, for example there are a few times Gent 4 says something kinda good that makes us not want to go for 4/2. Lady 2 said something he liked as well once. That is very likely why Gent 5 was so targeted on Gent 2/Lady 4 yesterday

Gent 5 said he checked over me talking about Gent 7 before his flip, and said it looked town to him. There's one post of mine I saw that I think Gent 5 got that read from (probably 1608), so I think he said that genuinely

This isn't an AI thing but he made me feel better when I was getting frustrated about not having strong reads on the PoE pool and said it reflected the game decently ^m^

He asked me who I prefer between the 2/4 pairs and encouraged me to not worry about being wrong, also said he'd vote where I do. We discussed my reasoning for liking Gent 2 a bit. He still thought Gent 2 could be WIFOMing but was willing to vote with me anyway

And just now he has expressed he's not sure where to vote because he doesn't think he wants Gent 4, which happened as I thought the same thing

Summary: Our reads are quite similar and I have the same thoughts as him before I see what he says. He cares about what my reads are and we change our reads using our discussions. He keeps an eye over me to an extent but we hard townread each other for the most part.

Additionally I think his proposal to me was good and we were seeing eye to eye on things long before we got the PT.

eh I've yet to really hear a convincing reason for why L1 is scummy

would you like to

yes

[Lady 8]

Lol at G9/L3's domestic dispute. I think Lady 3 is locktown and if I can get there on Gent 9 that's neat

I now get why Lady 6 wants them to endgame given she thinks Gent 9's townslip is semi valid

[Lady 8]

Here's your two posts where you substantially advocate for voting out where both halves look like scum.

I strongly think the best way to play dance1 is to vote out pairs where both halves of the pairing seem more likely than null to flip scum. I think this is much more effective than voting pairs where one player seems very, very scummy, and the other partner is nullish or townish. Two guess are just much stronger than one and read confidence is this weird emotional thing that doesn't correlate well to the actual percentages, when it is 3:7 someone who is 34% likely to be scum due to your reads feels twice as exciting as someone who is 33% likely to be scum, and stuff. Which works fine for setting up a PoE order in Normal queue but is bad in this setup and closely interlinked with leave-your-partner-gamethrows that have happened when this setup was run in the past.

It might sound convenient for me to say since some people townread my slot, but I think it's not that convenient since no one hard scumreads my partner except l7.blue (and maybe me lol).

It's not pairs that just aren't going to end game, it's pairs most likely to produce a redflip to work with because they have two halves that feel like they can flip scum instead of one. Human reads are bad and human reads that feel really better than other reads are actually only slightly better so two scumreads ideally or a scumread and a nullread have a quantity that outweighs the quality of an intense scumread. And "ignoring the intensity" of a scumread doesn't impact associative play that much, you'll be looking at the votes and what was actually caused to flip. If anything forcing players to discuss both halves is really good because bussing a scumpartner with a bunch of truth telling probably looks more authentic than shade on the town half

Yes, this logic is definitely right in a vacuum from a town!you perspective, but its also very beneficial for scum!you perspective if you were the partner of L7 or G3. In the latter case, I think its a high likelihood that town straight out loses the game. At F4 with no red corpses, this aforementioned case starts to have greater probability that it true, so I thought about hedging the game by straight out leaving. I don't want to do it in F3, because a mistake could straight up be a loss and its no longer hedging

Unsure if scum Gent 9 really has the idea to tinfoil Lady 3 for f4 in their PT. Especially considering Lady 3 is widely townread by everyone else

[Lady 8]

The vote proxying seems eyebrows if the L2G4 pairing includes scum while the L4G2 pair didn't. Deciding whether to bus is stressful

Hm, okay. He agreed with me on Lady 4 being town, had a suspicion of Gent 2, and had much less strong feelings on Gent 4/Lady 2. Prior to this he did the whole meme posting against Gent 2/Lady 4's pair, I know he somewhat preferred it but not a lot

Do you think Gent 5 as scum tries to delay Gent 4/Lady 2's flip if he's scum with one? Currently we're reconsidering Gent 4 being scum but are undecided on Lady 2

[Lady 8]

Not seal lady too. ARe you serious

[Lady 8]

@Nagito's L1 Case

I think the two scumreads in RVS were jokes. Her threatening to cry makes sense given the avatar. You are probably confirm biased towards her beginning

A lot of what you're saying later is fair enough. I think it's possible she hides behind the openwolfy posts sure, and perhaps the defense of G7 was a screw-up. I find it somewhat odd that scum would go so far as to say G7 is confidently town.

At least it suggests a perfect complement to L8 yay power couple

the pokemon is wrong though

i am very happy with how that turned out!

[Lady 8]

Not bothering to detail how her reads progress feels somewhat like it's just indicative of the amount of she's putting in, and maybe even slightly towny. It's tricky.

I can see town L1 just making spur of the moment statements over and over, like "G7 is surely town", "Don't leave Nagito he's town!", "G2 is null" (when she had him town earlier) and all those things u mentioned. If I were playing lower effort then i could see just saying how i stand a bunch without really elaborating

At the same time like, scum can do that too just as easily. So I suppose it's not really a smart idea for me to townread it.

You're right. It's between G2/G7

Oh god they both suck so much.

I would not be surprised if both were town tbh.

To some degree maybe?
Which one in particular do you think we should leave out. I'd have to analyze both to figure it out.

Depends on if Gent 7 is going to stick with his gimmick or not because on a town Gent 2 flip I would probably suspect Gent 4 a lot more. But if Gent 7 is gonna just do this all game we can leave him alone even though I'm pretty confident on him being town

What I find hard to believe about scum Lady 1, is that there really was no reason to say Gent 7 was confidently town, to make a poem in G7's favour, stuff like that. He was barely any different from G2, there wasn't really much reason at all to call him a better choice. And she didn't really give much of one. Trying to keep him alive longer was only going to hurt her in the long run

I guess she does suggest leaving Gent 7 behind while also calling him town in this post though, I hadn't considered that. It's somewhat hedgey I suppose

+ yeah, the openwolfy posts are unnecessary and somewhat awkward at times, I agree. I can see why it comes off as disingenuous to you

[Lady 8]

I think you could have kept suspecting Gent 5 just fine as well, plenty of people do. It's somewhat odd that you wouldn't, you could have gotten away just fine without saying you reconsidered the read after reading more of his posts. It just pings me that you are trying to find scum, as you being flipped green while still suspecting G5 likely leads into his elimination

This is fair, but G5 was questioning me pretty hard on why I was scumreading him so that would be a reason for me to pull back.

That's true, I suppose. At worst that's NAI to me cause it still seemed like a somewhat pingy spur of the moment scumread. Which is at least slightly towny to me

I don't really wanna vote G4/L2, unless maybe I find Lady 2 scummy. I don't want Gent 5, either..

Mm I'm just gonna keep discussing L1/G6 then

this is the main one that townpinged me. The somewhat certainty in a Gent 2 scumflip + The reveal of exactly who you thought the scumteam was prior to the flip feels good

This isn't townie though. In normal games, after scum NKs someone or mishangs someone, it's not uncommon to see them say stuff like "RIP I was so sure they were scum..." The main thing I townread him for is when he started to compile his reads because that felt good to me.

Fair enough but I was more thinking about the part where he says his running theory prior to the flip was Gent 2 / Gent 3. As far as i can tell I don't see anywhere he expresses that theory prior to this point, which suggests that it's something that's been on his mind. Maybe scum doesn't think to fake that. It's weak though ya

I think his posting around the end of the wagon (pushing me to get it done) was pro-town and somewhat towny pingy as well-- thats why i said i liked that bunch of posts

3 days left! G4/L2 should give final reads if they're here but I know L2 is afk at the moment. That way the smoke screens are gone or we get another wolf it's a positive for everyone involved. Wooo team!

Lady 1, had you not read through the thread yet before posting this, or were you consciously not acknowledging the pressure on you?

[Lady 8]

VOTE: G4/L2

Can we flip the pair that probably has a higher chance of scum being in it and now just G2/L4 ty

Just kill G4/L2 and G3/L6 and we'll see what we're left with.

for the record I would flip g3/L6 over G2/L4 but I know that won't happen. I just want bragging rights post game

Lady 1 not wanting to kill G2/L4, and instead advocating for G4/L2 and even G3/L6 over them feels somewhat important in the event Lady 1 is scum or there's scum in those pairs. This is probably too early for that though

As I said earlier, Lady 1's play today is mostly just being exasperated we're not taking out the 2/4 pairs quicker, as no one really had them townread enough to consider putting them in the endgame. Like, there's nothing wrong with that really I suppose. Recently she has also elected to mostly ignore the pressure on her, like G1's case. It's in character, at least but hard to read

I can't wait to vote for Gent 3 and Lady 6 after whatever the first lynch is and get totally ignored
pedit:
VOTE: Lady 4

Did your mind change on voting out G3/L6 between here and now?

[Lady 8]

My question for Lady 1

Who is your biggest scumread aside from G4 or L2 and why?

Is this the part you're not understanding? I never said scum have to be in the 2-4 pairs if they all flipped town I would shrug my shoulders and go oh well and look more closely at the remaining pairs because that would be the part where I need to look for the next scum. I really wish you didn't ask this question because I don't want to pull focus away from 2-4 who should still be the lynch today regardless. I even told my partner I was gonna make the scum case next dance

posts like this are ones that reinforce my belief that you're trying to chain town eliminations with the 2-4 pairs

I really don't think it's scummy to just want to remove both 2-4 pairs (at least at the beginning of today). If the consensus was never going to townread them for endgame, there wasn't a whole lot of reason to delay.

I suppose it's easy as scum to just support that and not read into things further, sure. But I can also see taking a lower effort path and just removing the main consensus not townread parties first and foremost

I think the way Lady 6 is trying to go about finding scum via the last wagon is a genuine attempt by her but I am unsure she will find much. Scum probably wouldn't feel more inclined to push the wagon as they would to not push it. Mayyyybe if there's scum in G4/L2 it's telling that we were swerved onto that wagon, but at the same time, I'm liking Gent 4 more and he says Lady 2 is town

Gent 1 Nagito is a tougher read these past couple pages. I think he's attacking Lady 1 for things that are true ("You aren't explaining your read changes", "You're trying to [mis?]elim the 2/4 pairs") but I don't know if she's necessarily scummy over being somewhat anti-town for them. Yes yes im a broken record not finding things scummy I'll go off and sit by myself now

[Lady 8]

If you scumread both halves of G4L2 and townread L4 strongly, why didn't you try to get town to flip Rosalina is the Best Character In Mario Tennis first??

ugh you're so exhausting. I'm gonna go get an ice cream
pedit: I DID.

i mean, she did yeah

Spoiler: mor lady 1 stuff

My question for Lady 1

Who is your biggest scumread aside from G4 or L2 and why?

Is this the part you're not understanding? I never said scum have to be in the 2-4 pairs if they all flipped town I would shrug my shoulders and go oh well and look more closely at the remaining pairs because that would be the part where I need to look for the next scum. I really wish you didn't ask this question because I don't want to pull focus away from 2-4 who should still be the lynch today regardless. I even told my partner I was gonna make the scum case next dance

If you really want me to answer that question in the next 3 days I will but I rather you changed it because I'm gonna make the answer to that real quick during dance 2.

I find it hard to scumread this mindset. Upon being asked for her main scumread, she replies "Idfk kill 2/4 then we'll figure it out." I'd expect scum lady 1 to at least point back to her prior quotes where she shows she wanted L6/G3, or show something, anything. Instead she takes this route:

If you really want me to answer that question in the next 3 days I will but I rather you changed it because I'm gonna make the answer to that real quick during dance 2.

Why not now?

Because people will be more willing to listen when your pair is dead. Along with the fact I plan on leaving the dance if I'm wrong.

Threatening to sacrifice her pair in the event G4/L2 flip all town. Hm. If G4/L2 is all town and Lady 1 is scum, she's sacrificing her own endgame. For no reason-- G4/L2 were very unlikely to endgame as it was, Lady 1 didn't really need to do anything

I don't see any advantage for scum to adopt the mindset of "Just kill the 4/2 pairs omfg we'll figure it out later I'll sacrifice myself anyway for you if this is wrong"

(This is the part where someone points out "BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT YOU TO THINK")

Yeah well I got that response last time when I decided Gent 2 was likely town. Maybe you're right and I'm thinking too small, I guess. It just seems odd to me. Gent 7 didn't trip me up like Gent 2 did / Lady 1 is, as far as I can remember. I'm not trying to townread every person who does the self sacrifice bit-- Gent 7's was definitely lower effort and not for no potential gain like I feel Gent 2 / Lady 1's play is. Gent 7 just acted LAMIST because he needed to look better than one person. Both Gent 2 and Lady 1 aren't gaining anything nor are they really trying to.

I don't think the potential of tripping up people with WIFOM justifies it either, do you see anything responding positively to the WIFOMy gambits (aside from me)? Gent 2's self sacrificial behaviour just played a part in getting him killed

Gent 2 gave out a huge plan for what we should do after his death, he tried to make a pact with me to go down after him, etc. which was very unnecessary if he was just going to die and flip red and lose credibility. Gent 2 was never going to save himself by doing it, and I think he knew that, so it would only serve to assist us in finding his scummate after his death

Now for my theory on Lady 1, she's sacrificing her townread status from yesterday by today essentially just taking the strategy of "Just kill both LHF we'll figure it out after that" today. She's not bothering to explain a lot of her read changes and stuff like that. She's going as far as threatening to sacrifice her own pair in the event there's no scum in G4/L2 (which, if Lady 1 is scum, I'm gonna say there very likely isn't.) This is all to take out the slot that was most likely to die anyway.

What I find to be decently more likely than scum Lady 1 giving up on the game is just a somewhat lower effort, somewhat fed up Lady 1 just wanting to remove the pairs no one townreads. Clearly she isn't particularly worried how we view her from this. And all that just to try and eliminate Gent 4/Lady 2 who weren't in endgame consideration anyway. What's the point?

I also still townread her interactions with Gent 7. She hard pulled for him to get a partner with little reason. But I know nobody seems to really dig my theory on that

If people seriously think our pair is more likely to have scum over yours after doing a direct check between posts I will laugh in the gy happy to not have to deal with this game anymore.

Is it possible this is all an act and I'm being completely played by Lady 1 faking being fed up and shit and in reality she's just a really low effort scum? ;-;

hope not. Is that the more likely scenario though? I don't think so

Oh but if I'm not voting Lady 1, and Gent 4 is growing on me.. ummmmm how much time is there left? 2 days okay

So it'd be Lady 2 v. Gent 6 if I had to stick to the two current wagons, and I'd say I like Gent 6 better although that's not exactly fair given I've been reading a lot of Gent 6 recently and none of Lady 2

Gent 9 grew on me from what I recall, Gent 3 unknown, Gent 1 unknownish but above Gent 3.

If I were to guess I'd say there's scum in the town reads that I am totally blind to atm + one in [L2, G1, G3, outer chance of G6]. There's potential for both scum to be in there but I think I'd probably find the second by using the flip of the first

There's two ways i can see to approach voting within my PoE, I can either pick the person who collectively with their partner have the least towny status, or I can just pick who I think is the scummiest in the PoE, ignoring the partner.

As i've been playing so far this game I've actively avoiding voting any pairing with someone I feel really good about being town in it. I'm gonna say that's probably making it quite tricky to vote out scum. That combined with how I can't get like an active scumread on someone outside my town pool, so I can't pick a favourite anyway. It's a total bother really. I'll figure this out tomorrow when it's not 3 am, hopefully

[Lady 8]

Both Gent 9 / Lady 3 and Gent 6 / Lady 1 should endgame, I think -- I find it extremely hard to believe Lady 1 is scum

Pairs beyond that to endgame are probably dependent on the next red flip, maybe. I only have strong feelings about half of many pairs

Lady 8 is scummier than rand because she doesn't have scumreads
I also don't have any scumreads
I think we should vote her
if you don't understand please ctrl f my posts for "deluxe oil" ty

For me, having scumreads makes me more likely to be scum than rand, cause I'm clueless much more often as town. As scum I notice small things about people that are towny and ignore them because I can, but as town I end up noticing something good about many many people and get screwed.

Gent 4's Lady 2 towncase isn't the worst. I'm feeling pretty sure Gent 4 is town at this point, he's not forcing the case to be strong, it feels more objective-- but as a result a lot of it is NAI rather than towny. I would vote 2/4 over 1/6 by a longshot still. I be interested in voting Gent 1 or 3 as well although probably not as much as Lady 2

[Lady 8]

Anyone around to chat?

In terms of updates I can't think of many to give. I mentioned it to the old Miss Seal in our PT, but I haven't been scumreading Lady 8 for a bit. I feel as though something about reading her posts in real-time rather than as I was catching up made them better. That sounds a little ridiculous, I know, but it is true—it's possible that it might just be a difference in the older posts themselves versus newer posts. Regardless, I had planned (and still plan) to do a review of her posts just in case the real-time versus catch-up distinction actually was real, because I'm hesitant to turn around quickly on something that was one of my stronger reads when it's hurt me in the past.

Wait really? I look forward to it then! Something tells me I'm next in line to be in the spotlight sometime soon

Something I wanted to ask earlier -- Do you think you have a decent chance of knowing my identity, and if so, was that before your original scumread on me? I'm curious

[Lady 8]

What did L3 and G9 argue about?

I think G9 scumslipped but dannflor didn't think it was a scumslip and now dannflor is gonebyebye

Can you run me through what you think the scumslip was pls?

He suggested us leaving the dance, talking about it as though it were an act of teamwork. But it doesn't work like that, he should be thinking of me as an opponent if he were considering leaving the dance.

L1ghost has done almost the same thing in the game thread now
it seems like a perspective slip while LAMISTing to me

I would give my partner adequate warning before leaving, because even if I think they're scum, odds are, there's a good chance they're not. I'd feel bad if I left out of the blue, just for it to be wrong and then I screwed them over. That's not a perspective slip, do not leave him for that reason

[Lady 8]

Neither of you seem like you are looking for LastPair

................

locktown
Lady 7
Lady 3
Lady 1
-
hightown
Gent 5, Lady 6
Gent 9
-
leantown
Gent 4
Gent 6
-
?
Gent 1
Gent 3, Lady 2

Lady 5, Gent 8

Lady 3, Gent 9
Lady 1, Gent 6[?]
Lady 7, Gent 1[?]
Late Game Line -------------
Gent 5, Lady 8
Gent 3, Lady 6
Gent 4, Lady 2

Unresolved: Gent 8 - Lady 5

[Lady 8]

Gent 5's readpost of me makes me feel pretty assured I'm not being pocketed

I think you're off-track suspecting Seal Lady 6, Lady 3. Unless you already decided that I'm not sure

Also I swear you're probably the pair I collectively feel the best about so perhaps reconsider the Gent 9 stuff. Maybe I'm wrong and dumb I guess though, idk. Dann Seal Lady seemed to agree

[Lady 8]

ahh oki

[Lady 8]

Are you still considering leaving him? My very best bet for the game is chopping out every player but you and him. I can share the blame with Dann if u like

[Lady 8]

I don't even find those two close

The gyst of it is that Gent 9 suspects Lady 3 and has been discussing plans to leave with her. This was before people wanted them to endgame, as far as I remember, but Lady 3 was top three towniest players. The combination of Gent 9 suspecting his consensus TR partner and throwing away his chance at endgaming with her seems really really strange to me.

Dann puts stock into the "townslip", I don't, but it's there. That was something that happened

There's also the way they partnered up which could come from scum but I'm going to say at least its less likely scum would throw away picking a partner tactically to instead just do it as a joke.

If one of them leaves prematurely and they flip T/T I would probably cry a little for not being able to prove this better.

I think barring Gent 9 doing something scummy you should 100% be taking this pair far and possibly the last one. My opinion probably isn't super valuable but perhaps combined with Dann's it holds more weight.

As long as this is right, everything else is irrelevant. And if it is right, scum is going to try very hard to stop this from being consensus somewhere down the line.

[Lady 8]

Oh um Gent 1 Nagito. He's fine I suppose. I go back and forth somewhat if I like Gent 1 or Gent 6 better a bit. I don't believe Lady 1 is scum but he pretty fervently does. Wonder how that develops. He could potentially be scum tunneling on one area but town can do that too. I think he should look elsewhere but I do say that a lot

It's a shame given I'm probably 98% on Lady 7 being town

[Lady 8]

VOTE: G4 / L2

G5 / L8 ->
G4 / L2 ->
G3 / L6 ->
--
G1 / L7 ->
G6 / L1 ->
G9 / L3

And do whatever seems right for the IC pair

I forgot scum can kill a pair during the intermission so I may have fucked up pushing G9/L3 as town so hard. We actually don't win locktowning them. Sorry about that

Mmm I can see a somewhat decent chance this game goes down to maybe G6 vs. G1, one is scum one isn't, in XYLO. I should compare them later today I think so I can finally pick a side there

But best case scenario you're taking out 1-2 scum above the line and don't need to worry about that. I'm guessing there's 1 above the line and I screwed up putting one in G1/G6 higher up in my reads OR a townread Lady tricked all of us and it's already lost

If there's no scum above the line, um, sorry

[Lady 8]

You can be certain you're not being manipulated in just a little bit. I think Gent 5 and I are gonna get out of here in a few ^w^

Then you just need to figure out if you can trust me actually to be right, which is definitely the bigger issue

I am in love with my pokemon chart by the way. I wouldn't have it any other way!

[Lady 8]

There's a decent chance I'll do a big burst later tonight in hopes of getting as close to solving as I can. I will try to answer anything/everything even if the answer is just going to be "gut" or something. A lot of times I get put off cause I can't find the words to explain, but tbh I'm past that at this point

I want one shot at saying who I think scum is

[Lady 8]

I agree Gent 4 is town in his pairing I believe

[Lady 8]

G5 / L8 ->
G4 / L2 ->
G3 / L6 ->
--
G6 / L1 ->
G1 / L7 ->
G9 / L3

I'm gonna switch the G6 / L1 and G1 / L7 pairs to this in case I've been thoroughly tricked by Lady 1's uncaring style and overconfidence townreading Gent 7. Lady 7 I am mostly confident is not tricking me so may as well.

You can be certain you're not being manipulated in just a little bit. I think Gent 5 and I are gonna get out of here in a few ^w^

I'd prefer any "I'm leaving so you can trust me!" bullshit doesn't happen. I'd settle for it not happening until post intermission, though.

Oups that wasn't my intention. I'm not leaving unless the thread votes me out, which I assumed they are atm

[Lady 8]

Don't use the G2/L4 wagon analysis for scumhunting, I don't think that will be helpful. For example I didn't want them but I was still on that wagon. Gent 5 wanted Gent 2 but wasn't on. Maybe you could check who wanted G4/L2 instead I guess idk. Regardless nearly the entire game was on the wagon and it was kinda agiven to happen, there is no real big wagon vs. wagon analysis to use there

i'm not motivated right now but I'll look at my PoE a little later tonight and make my guess. If im taking too long dw about it though

[Lady 8]

I think it’s p unlikely that scum were both off on the G2-L4 wagon but I’m also not convinced they were both on.

Why

There are only 3 slots off, (G5, G3, L2). I’d like to just flip them one by one until scum turns up,

if it doesn’t then it means scum were both on and whoever is left can try to figure out the exact implications of that.

That accidentally gets rid of the couples I want anyway, so okay then.

The bolded though-- the implications are nothing. The wagon-- it means nothing. This strategy makes no sense to me unless there's a reason to assume the amount of scum on that wagon. Probability would say there's 1-2 on wagon, but outside of probability I don't see any particular reason for scum to be on/off, especially when the votes were more votes to continue the game, less votes to kill G2/L4

[Lady 8]

Why did she vote for herself?

I'm somewhat less concerned with Lady 5's reasons for scumreading Gent 5 as the implications it could have on the game-- the wagon isn't indicative of anything in my opinion. Regardless, I want both 2/4 and 3/6 removed anyway, so I suppose it's fine.

But really.. you want to vote out everyone who wasn't on wagon, and if there's no scum off the wagon.. that means..... scum was on the wagon? Okay then

[Lady 8]

Isis was Lady 3 and is being force-replaced.

this is heartbreaking

[Lady 8]

Why did she vote for herself?

She scumreads Gent 9

Gahhh!!!!!!!!

But really.. you want to vote out everyone who wasn't on wagon, and if there's no scum off the wagon.. that means..... scum was on the wagon? Okay then

*shrug* i'm not saying it makes sense, it is what it is

I would be absolutely livid if I were scum getting voted out indirectly for that reasoning lol

But instead I just can't rlly argue. It's not like I have a scumcase on someone

[Lady 8]

Please for the love of god don't let Lady 3's third replacement leave Gent 9. If they're around in second intermission I'm like 90% sure that scum needs to make them leave to win

[Lady 8]

Hi Lady 3 #3.

it's nice to meet you again

[Lady 8]

I somewhat like Gent 1's effort post more than Gent 6's effort posts, I want to say the tunnelyness is harder to fake than Gent 6 mostly giving uncontroversial reads. It isn't bad posting by either but I think I could probably fake Gent 6's easier as scum

But I still flip flop on that. At the same time, Gent 6 has posts that make me like him for town. Smh

Regardling Gent 4 / Lady 2, I think Gent 4 is more likely to be the town in his pair with Lady 2 possibly being scum. I don't have a scumcase though. They're collectively the lowest pair in my reads (4068) and Lady 2 is one of three players at the bottom

Lady 2 was here for the first 2/3rds of the game but not the last 1/3rd. I don't have a read on her. Gent 4 is below some other Gents but not all.