Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Meuh]

Limitations are so limiting. I love and hate how limiting limits tend to be when it comes to how they limit you. It's very limiting and limit? Post office post limit limit break limit postmodernism, limit limiting limit 125 posts limit limit; maximum ceiling cap limit post restraint brake limit.

Stop limit post 125 curtailment diminution lessening limit post limit post limit. 125 posts limit limiting not more than 125.

Reduction damper upper limit buffer post 125 limitations restrictions tax upper limit dayphase emergency post limit. Vote cap questions limit.
Reserve limit post replace-in 125 posts. Slot dayphase limit!

Entire game keep track limitation post restriction 127 minus 2 game limit.

I like 11, Datisi generally looks good in my eyes. 24 hints at actual scum hunting, which is always nice.

VP's 25 is quite good. It's a jokey statement; but it feels like a joke a townie would come up with more than scum would.

48 has some pretty solid vibes, honestly! 27 reads like having a want to solve. Bit of mindmeld. Overall a bit of a townread on fire.


VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
Definitely want more there

[Meuh]

I’m just sitting here tongue tied. How does one shit post with a mere 150 posts?

The dat’s/baltar thing is interesting.

But not really the main drive this dp I hope.

I’ve seen enough of Baltar and dat’s last games. To where I’d rather see them in the periphery. I sound like FL. /:

*watches*

@tako: easily done.

I don’t have any feelings on the gorilla, sk,

I feel I probably should on fire. Just based on their first posts but eh.

I guess I see generally potential scummy things that have been said before but there’s not much like motivation so much as sentence structure similarities. Context iirrelevant.

Is my post large enough yet?
How about now?

Bolded bits of this post read genuine and actively trying to solve. Feels nuanced in a way hard to emulate, if that makes any sense? Already voicing concern on where we'll be focusing our attention seems well-motivated if actually trying to get scum limmed today.

@Marci what's up with the all caps posting??

[Meuh]

Spoiler:

Limitations are so limiting. I love and hate how limiting limits tend to be when it comes to how they limit you. It's very limiting and limit? Post office post limit limit break limit postmodernism, limit limiting limit 125 posts limit limit; maximum ceiling cap limit post restraint brake limit.

Stop limit post 125 curtailment diminution lessening limit post limit post limit. 125 posts limit limiting not more than 125.

Reduction damper upper limit buffer post 125 limitations restrictions tax upper limit dayphase emergency post limit. Vote cap questions limit.
Reserve limit post replace-in 125 posts. Slot dayphase limit!

Entire game keep track limitation post restriction 127 minus 2 game limit.

I like 11, Datisi generally looks good in my eyes. 24 hints at actual scum hunting, which is always nice.

VP's 25 is quite good. It's a jokey statement; but it feels like a joke a townie would come up with more than scum would.

48 has some pretty solid vibes, honestly! 27 reads like having a want to solve. Bit of mindmeld. Overall a bit of a townread on fire.


VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
Definitely want more there

What do you think of the content after your last referenced posts? We disagree on at least one (but how many, I won't say now) read here, so I'm curious on your perspective of what comes after.

~

Also, I'm stopping posting when I hit 18 for the day. I want to mete out what I say so that I have an even number everyday.

For the record, I had my vote on tako down before fire specifically mentioned them. I also voted them for the same thing Fire pointed out in 48, which is a large part of what made it mind-meldy.

I agree with the first line of Dunnstral's 50 (which is essentially how I was also feeling). No thoughts on the rest of the post as I have no clue how Datisi plays.

Speaking of which I haven't played with 15 of the people here so nice to meet you all!

@Datisi, what reply did you have?

i get wagoned early in the game literally all the time now. i'm awkward at the start of the game because i never know what to do.

i didn't have a response to the votes because nothing good comes from responding to them.

why are they voting me? because i'm awkward. no shit.

getting into an argument about it now would just make me look desperate, and thus, even more awkward. just play the game normally, they'll either see the error of their ways or they're going to have to justify their vote on me once i have actual content out.

do you think me ignoring the votes on me is scummy? why?

I don't like this post form Datisi, especially the bolded part. Attributing that reasoning to votes dropped with little to no explanation seems like a self-serving stretch.
Datisi acting as if it's surprising for people to be critical of him not engaging with the push rubs me the wrong way too.

62 reads like a townie's thought process. I see no reason to feel bad about VP at this point. Related to this I don't appreciate Fire's shade on VP.

\

Hi all. 125 posts per day doesn't seem like too much of a restriction.
I actually like Fey for bandwagoning to Datisi, but don't really have any opinion on the other votes or anyone else rlly

VOTE: Meuh
I feel like you're trying to do too much out of the gate? I mean, if you're town, I don't want to discourage you from solving. But it doesn't feel natural to me at least.

Tbh I'm just excited to actually be solving after just playing a scum game. It's refreshing
(I may or may not also be using this game as means to procrastinate but shhhh)

What feels unnatural about it? The way I'm interacting with others? The reads I'm putting down? My thought process? My way of expressing myself? What in particular irks you?

[Meuh]

Attributing that reasoning to votes dropped with little to no explanation seems like a self-serving stretch.
Datisi acting as if it's surprising for people to be critical of him not engaging with the push rubs me the wrong way too.

i can sense when i am being off beat. i was being off beat in the early game. and it's not like there has been any other content that people could be voting me for.

i didn't say it was surprising. where did you get that idea?

While you never said it, iirc the last phrase in your post gave that impression.

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

[Meuh]

VOTE: Lavar

Sounds good

[Meuh]

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

Do you think it means anything in terms of her alignment this game?

Marci and I tend to read each other poorly, especially early on in games. A whole lot of inaccurate scumreading.
I still don't think it's unrealistic for Marci to feel neut about me here though.
What does feel off about it is her using this read on me to push back on Datisi. Even if she does feel neutral about me, I don't think she says this:

i also *shocker here* dont agree with meuh feeling off yet, i think she hasnt done much alignment indicative yet and i think ur hating on her for her basic personality

This does not really seem like a way to go after Datisi that I expect town!Marci to do.

Honestly my approach on reading Marci as of late is to just not do it on day 1
It's not worth the effort in forming a read that'll probably be poor and I'd rather spend that time and energy somewhere else.
I think I'm decent at reading Marci later on in the game with flips having happened so I'd rather do it then. (viewtopic.php?p=12746354#p12746354)
There's a need for it here though because of the wagon on her, and while I don't feel great about her, it's not as strong of a feeling as the one on Lavar.

Also I just found out you can highlight a part of a post before quoting it and it'll only quote that part??? That's so useful how did I not know this

[Meuh]

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
Definitely want more there

what is the "more" you are looking for? more content? it was like a few hours into the game when you posted that

More content, more justification for the vote, anything telling of their alignment. I think their vote on Datisi was scummy. I wanted to throw a vote on them for pressure's sake.

[Meuh]

meuh needs to have more scumreads imo

Sircakez looks bad in general but I’m fine with waiting for more content since he’s VLA. Perhaps a clash in thought process but 197 reads very unnatural.

Datisi’s 260 looks pretty bad to me tbh. I’m conflicted on its alignment. His early posting which bothered people didn’t bother me but some of his more recent posting rubs me the wrong way. Still not particularly compelled to push there

I think there’s scum (probably like 2) in tako/Enchant/Lambda/Lavar/RR/Val. I’m getting a lot of townie vibes from the general activity of the game if that makes any sense? and those are the 6 that either haven’t said much or haven’t done that much that stuck to me as indicative of much.

You could also be scum but like I said before, that’s not something I’m particularly keen on figuring out at the moment

Pedit: oh Gorilla’s list is similar to what I’m thinking lol

[Meuh]

I should give some bits of the game a reread because some of it I just don’t really remember or spent much energy on interpreting.
Not that much has been sticking to me thus far.
Dunn/Gorilla/Fire/VB/Lukewarm/Bell probably town here

Also what’s the expected number of scum here? 4? 5? Never played this big of a game on this site.

[Meuh]

Ditto with Fey

I’ll try my best to contribute here but I’ve mostly been lurking a bunch.

Though I do want to get into the groove of things, I was more energetic and productive when I played a few months back.

I think phone posting might unironically be a better way for me to approach this game because it stops me from spending like 20 minutes on a single post…

[Meuh]

I do understand the irony of saying this in a post cap game

I’m not gonna reach the cap ever though, so it’s fine

[Meuh]

Oh and Kovu’s also probably town. I think the slight contradictions and quirks in their posts are getting played up.
They don’t somehow undo the (seemingly town) spewing they’ve put out. Don’t see a compelling reason to feel bad about them

[Meuh]

I should give some bits of the game a reread because some of it I just don’t really remember or spent much energy on interpreting.
Not that much has been sticking to me thus far.
Dunn/Gorilla/Fire/VB/Lukewarm/Bell probably town here

Also what’s the expected number of scum here? 4? 5? Never played this big of a game on this site.

the original game this was based on had 4 mafia, although that feels a bit light for a 20 player game. Possibly the Invictus mechanic is viewed as being scumsided overall even though the net effect is a bunch of extra town-directed kills.

Oh yeah, the original game would be a good place to check!
The mafia team did win that game, so I’d assume Invictus favours scum?
Though I guess it depends on approach. The setup probably rewards deepwolfing and punishes lurking as scum, which is cool

[Meuh]

VOTE: Enchant

[Meuh]

Lavar feels... in his own little world sort of deal. Like the read on Dunnstral of all people as potentially shady feels out there in a world where scum!Lavar probably doesn't need to be right now. Is a weird place to fixate. Just seems like he's doing his own thing.

Fey/Lavar isn’t S/S methinks

[Meuh]

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
sorta sus that nobody has voted this slot yet

63

[Meuh]

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
sorta sus that nobody has voted this slot yet

Are there other slots you’re concerned about not having enough people engage with them?
I feel that way about Enchant, personally.

PEdit: But that was in my opening post… you voted for me afterwards
Did you reflect on it more recently?

[Meuh]

Yeah, there's a couple of unreadable slots right now. I suppose the vig mechanic could be used to sort them, but I don't trust that entirely. For Enchant tho, I feel like he would be doing more as scum.
I unvoted you mostly because I thought takotsubo needed to be voted. But yeah. I did look at your posts and they seem good. The part about you voting for takotsubo contributing to my unvote of you was mostly a joke lol.

Yeah a second after I posted, I realized you were probably just joking

I don’t think Enchant would be doing more as scum. I’m not an expert on reading them but iirc when I’ve played with (town) Enchant, there was some sort of town-indicative scumhunting in their posts. Not seeing any of that here, I could easily see this be scum!Enchant.
The lack of attention to the slot partially makes sense because of the lack of content; but I still was expecting more at this point.
Don’t feel super strongly about their alignment as of yet, though.

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome

I’m willing to sheep you on this and my vote fulfills essentially the same purpose on Enchant than on Tako. I wanna see where this goes and you’ve had good vibes as of late anyways

[Meuh]

Helpful as ever.

[Meuh]

Despite a bunch of shade and mild scumreads, I’ve only gotten 2 votes? Idk I’m kinda expecting more action to have been taken.
Plus both of those votes on me were retracted, one pretty quickly.
Kinda gives me the vibe scum have a more convenient wagon to chill on and I’m just there as a backup if wagons on other townies die down.
This is +town on Marci especially but also Datisi.
Don’t think either of those wagons struck gold from the general circumstances.

Maybe the Bell wagon’s correct but the only thing that’s stuck out to me about them is being mildly infuriating, which sadly isn’t a scumtell.

[Meuh]

Why is it town for Marci and Datisi but not for Bell?

I think the timing of it makes it less town indicative for Bell. The wagon gained momentum later, once I was being less considered (and only had 1 vote on me, from someone scumread by many).
Bell wouldn’t really fulfill the role of the “existing wagon scum are satisfied with” in the same way Marci or Datisi was imo

[Meuh]

I'm at e-4 I think. I don't either either Marci or I are good wagons.

Then do something to make someone else a relevant wagon

[Meuh]

Bell’s recent string of posts is very townie-like and they’re probably my strongest townread rn. Both situationally and based on their own actions they should be town.

I think I was too quick to sort VPB, some of the points made against him were pretty bad imo but that doesn’t somehow clear him either. Haven’t gotten many pings from him.

At this point I’m willing to just throw Gorilla/Bell/Fire into the townbin and assume they have good intentions, I don’t see why not.

Well these votes on me are a little odd, but ok.

I’m heading to try to catch some more zzz’s, but I’ll reply when I’m up.

Bell is for sure town; same with Kovu. Those are my solid top two town reads. I’m very confident in reading them both.

Hopefully I’ll be able to townblock soon & sort the rest of the scum out via PoE.

Okay this post is pretty good!

I’ll go back to
VOTE: Enchant

[Meuh]

Kovu in the townbin too!

[Meuh]

Bell’s recent string of posts is very townie-like and they’re probably my strongest townread rn. Both situationally and based on their own actions they should be town.

Why do you think it's townie?

Their reads just seem to flow naturally, though specifically the progression in those posts looks good.
The switcheroo on the read on me seems hard to naturally emulate for scum but Bell looked genuine.

honestly I'd love to hear more on the Bell TRs, cause this isn't exactly mirroring the bell!town I'm familiar with, this bell isn't doing too much, but it's also like half this freaking table is doing nothing, soooo idk, someone called enchant town right? I'm also really curious on that.... cause enchant is one that still has 0 content

I don’t have any input on Bell’s meta bc I’ve never played with them.
Like I said earlier, being unhelpful at times doesn’t make someone scum, as much as that would be nice.
iirc most arguments made against Bell either
-Revolve around them being mildly unhelpful
-Revolve around their meta
Neither of which are compelling to me.

[Meuh]

Why are you complaining so much this game?

so my bad... I should just sit back and not care about the game right? you have 0 problem with people doing that... like, SO WHAT PEOPLE ARE VLA?? they could've given literally ANYTHING before going V/LA but there's 8 entire slots of nothing...

we have Lavar calling Enchant town for doing nothing, and none of yall said ANYTHING about it, so what's the freaking point of me trying my best here

I responded to that very read. 296
I don't see how it's a scummy read for Lavar to make, even if it's a bad one.

In a scum!Bell world, I'd look at Kovu and Enchant next. Both are making nonsense posts that aren't pushing anyone.

...and how do those reads relate to the prospect of Bell flipping scum?

VOTE: VP Baltar
Why not

[Meuh]

@Meuh - Do you have any more detailed thoughts on VPB atm from his earlier posts? I wouldn't mind hearing 'em if you do.

Meh as I've said before not really. I think some things levied against him early on (like being too careless with posts) didn't really mean much.
I'll have to ISO him probably, a lot of the points against him come down to meta, which I have no knowledge of.
His recent posting is weird and decently scummy. I trust the people on him a good amount and think a wagon on him is preferable to one on Marci or Bell so I'm chilling with it.
I don't really get which way someone can look at the game and come out of it thinking Kovu's scum, even with a scumread on Bell. That confuses me from VPB.

[Meuh]

I think there’s scum (probably like 2) in tako/Enchant/Lambda/Lavar/RR/Val. I’m getting a lot of townie vibes from the general activity of the game if that makes any sense? and those are the 6 that either haven’t said much or haven’t done that much that stuck to me as indicative of much.

i haven't really paid attention to rhyme and reason that much, they aren't completely dead like some of those other names imo but nothing theyve done has really screamed yet, yknow? what do you see wrong with them rn?

I feel about the same as you about them, which is why they're in my POE
This game feels town-led so the slots that aren't involved much feel like they have high scum equity
I feel similar about Val than about RR (though Val has done more I think, it just hasn't stuck to me)

[Meuh]

I don't really get which way someone can look at the game and come out of it thinking Kovu's scum

Why are you townreading Kovu exactly? How much experience do you have with Andante?

I think I played like half a day with Adante before they replaced out of a game, don't remember much from them.
My read is just based on current gameplay. Kovu feels transparent and well-intentioned.
I feel there'd be some sort of tell that they're scum out by now if they were, and there's nothing.

[Meuh]

I'm too paranoid of LLD to ever think they're super townie. They have games like this though. They'll eventually post more.
Usually anyway.

@Enchant: I originally targeted Lavar just as the game started before they even posted and switched it to Sircakez Yesterday.

Wtf I’ve done the exact same thing

[Meuh]

HUH????

[Meuh]

I swear this game is taking years off my life

[Meuh]

I’m confused how you could simultaneously think that dayvig was real while also having the exact same vindictus targets that I had.
Don’t ask why. It would melt your brain if I explained it.

Not asking, then
The idea of someone faking dayvig just did not cross my mind tbh
Especially since it was Enchant doing it

[Meuh]

I don't think it's a good idea to share invictus targets tbh

Probably not incredible, no.
I kinda outed my targets on the spot; because I was surprised Bell had the exact same ones, at the same time

[Meuh]

he has road

I am devastated that I wrote these words with my own two hands.

**He has ridden**

You type with your hands? I prefer using my fingers

[Meuh]

Hi!

[Meuh]

meh, alright, i'll let you live for now

This post reads like something Shadow the Hedgehog would say

[Meuh]

Val is probably town, I don’t think scum can synthesize the whole argument about how putting out reads is bad bc of Invictus. I disagree with it, but it’s probably genuine.

More sircakez votes. Please and thank you.

VOTE: SirCakez

RR/Dwlee/LLD/SirCakez/Enchant sound like the best options to me.

[Meuh]

UNVOTE:

[Meuh]

I’m willing to sheep you on this and my vote fulfills essentially the same purpose on Enchant than on Tako. I wanna see where this goes and you’ve had good vibes as of late anyways

why sheep Lavar here? that's such an odd pick to follow of all people this game

I wanted to see where it went and he had good vibes as of that time anyways

okay my brain is hurting I don't want to post anymore

I want to kill one of these people (baltar, val, rhyme and reason, dwlee, tako/mala, marci)
these people are in my townbin (kovu, lavar, gamma, gorilla, luke, dunn)
everyone else whatever

Why not kill me?

VOTE: Rhyme and Reason

Cakez is still like a fine lim I guess, but not what I'd prefer really

Also deadline is closer than I thought, we have under 3 days till day ends

[Meuh]

actually tho bell whys cakez scummier than the rest?

This is a good post from Marci imo

I have not read the game entire, yet it
Is thought by me — the wagon Bell attracts
Quite good may be. I cast our vote for him;
He has not here his normal tone he seems
To me to lack conviction that, when town
He has achieved in role PM, he with
Swift, easy facility presents in game


VOTE: Bell

My friend still stays with me in fair Madrid
No posts shall here forthcome until the morn
~Reason

this could definitely be a Bell scumbuddy
there's zero conviction in this vote and it feels like distancing IMO

Is your perception of RR entirely based on equity with Bell?

I should give some bits of the game a reread because some of it I just don’t really remember or spent much energy on interpreting.
Not that much has been sticking to me thus far.
Dunn/Gorilla/Fire/VB/Lukewarm/Bell probably town here

Also what’s the expected number of scum here? 4? 5? Never played this big of a game on this site.

these reads suck how could you have VP and Bell as town? and what has Gorilla done really?

329
Gorilla good vibes!

Cakez is kinda weird for me to read rn because his vibes are good but some of his reads (especially on Bell) are a bit perplexing.
Either way there's enough town pings for me to not really feel great about limming him today

[Meuh]

646 especially really looks good to me for some reason

[Meuh]

I'm aware, either way I see no reason to scumread Bell.
But also I have little experience with Bell so ig I can't really pretend I have more ground to stand on than those who do.

[Meuh]

Is your perception of RR entirely based on equity with Bell?

No I think they are also scummy in a vacuum

why were u still shadjng him tho?

Cuz the claim isn't proven yet and also he's pissing me off lol

lmao that's fair

Bell was pissing me off for a while until he actually started sharing reads

also you should sheep my vote, trust me my reads are always on point

[Meuh]

okay here's the thing

the people i do not want to murder on day one are:
bell, fire, luke, dunn, gamma, kovu, baltar, gorilla.

everyone else i could probably be talked into yeeting.

Val is probably town, I don’t think scum can synthesize the whole argument about how putting out reads is bad bc of Invictus. I disagree with it, but it’s probably genuine.

VOTE: meuh

i wanna murder in the val/marci/meuh circle. i feel like it has the highest odd of flipping a wolf somewhere in it and it would shed light on other people.

i wanna try voting meuh because i have a very very hard time believing the thing i quoted above is a real thought.

What
Do you think scum are particularly likely to come up with the whole concept of sharing reads being bad bc of invictus and decide to share it?
To me it sounds like something more likely for a townie to naturally come up with than scum
Like the paranoia over invictus targets being too obvious isn't really something I expect scum to engage in

[Meuh]

Spoiler:

I’m willing to sheep you on this and my vote fulfills essentially the same purpose on Enchant than on Tako. I wanna see where this goes and you’ve had good vibes as of late anyways

why sheep Lavar here? that's such an odd pick to follow of all people this game

I wanted to see where it went and he had good vibes as of that time anyways

okay my brain is hurting I don't want to post anymore

I want to kill one of these people (baltar, val, rhyme and reason, dwlee, tako/mala, marci)
these people are in my townbin (kovu, lavar, gamma, gorilla, luke, dunn)
everyone else whatever

Why not kill me?

VOTE: Rhyme and Reason

Cakez is still like a fine lim I guess, but not what I'd prefer really

Also deadline is closer than I thought, we have under 3 days till day ends

This post screams scum claim to me, that vote on RR with 0 explanation, 0 acknowledgement. 0 attempt to talk to RR, that vote is SO BAD

RR's in this weird spot where basically everyone has neutral to meh vibes about them, but nothing's being done. No votes, little pressure, barely any analysis...
(I'm not pretending this doesn't apply to me, but I want to do something about it)
I think the posting quirk makes engaging with them harder, but regardless it gives me the impression they're more likely scum.
Feels like scum would've taken advantage of it by then if RR was town.
This could be a bad way to look at the game but RR's general position in the game is a strange one and I'm interested in pushing there.

Don't like the vote on Bell, either.

@RR

why is your vote still there?

[Meuh]

Okay, let me ISO RR to see what sticks out about them. Not much stuck to me as of yet

The point about Bell getting the wrong postcount Reason makes in 120 is interesting and tbh feels kinda good for RR.
Though I'm curious; what changed between then and the vote in 316?

(Feel free to answer this, RR)

Was the post count stuff weaker than the tonal read?
That being the progression on the Bell read with no mention in between is a bit odd.

622 is hard to read tbh, the first instance of the gimmick actually being annoying.

It looks like they weren't pushed before they gave
The major reason (him ignoring votes).
The push came only after, then they said
that's not the first real reason that they had.
Before this post, I don't believe they said
what that first reason was. I guess they should.

This does not read well at all.

I'm not one to speak regarding being unclear, though.
The fact the biggest "chunk" of that post is focused on responding to my 274 is interesting.

I’m getting a lot of townie vibes from the general activity of the game if that makes any sense?

It does, and it is almost always wrong.
I've done this, trust me. Usually it means
that you are more inclined to call things town
so people who post more, get townread more.

"Let's kill the lurkers" means that something's wrong--
It's not to say that lurking isn't bad,
But just that active scum can safely hide
And no one wants to try and hunt them out.
The proper answer is to try and force
The lurking ones to say some AI things
So you can read them better than before.

If we're talking about fake content, I think that could be some.
It's largely an NAI point to make that comes down to general thoughts on certain gamestates than something specific to this game.
I don't like that.

that was a pretty bad post.

The latest post? It seems okay to me...
I also was annoyed by Kovu's gripes.
Although it's hard to tell from looking back
It seemed like stuff was going on, and that
She got annoyed it wasn't what she wants.

I think Gorilla was referring to VPB's most recent post, not the most recent post overall.

PEDIT: oh, fun

[Meuh]

Spoiler:

I’m willing to sheep you on this and my vote fulfills essentially the same purpose on Enchant than on Tako. I wanna see where this goes and you’ve had good vibes as of late anyways

why sheep Lavar here? that's such an odd pick to follow of all people this game

I wanted to see where it went and he had good vibes as of that time anyways

okay my brain is hurting I don't want to post anymore

I want to kill one of these people (baltar, val, rhyme and reason, dwlee, tako/mala, marci)
these people are in my townbin (kovu, lavar, gamma, gorilla, luke, dunn)
everyone else whatever

Why not kill me?

VOTE: Rhyme and Reason

Cakez is still like a fine lim I guess, but not what I'd prefer really

Also deadline is closer than I thought, we have under 3 days till day ends

This post screams scum claim to me, that vote on RR with 0 explanation, 0 acknowledgement. 0 attempt to talk to RR, that vote is SO BAD

RR's in this weird spot where basically everyone has neutral to meh vibes about them, but nothing's being done. No votes, little pressure, barely any analysis...
(I'm not pretending this doesn't apply to me, but I want to do something about it)
I think the posting quirk makes engaging with them harder, but regardless it gives me the impression they're more likely scum.
Feels like scum would've taken advantage of it by then if RR was town.
This could be a bad way to look at the game but RR's general position in the game is a strange one and I'm interested in pushing there.

Don't like the vote on Bell, either.

@RR

why is your vote still there?

ok now you explain.. why did you vote earlier though? like, here I put all the reasoning on the table to SS, why are you basing RR scum off how people are treating the slot? like, "if they were town scum would take advantage" do you really believe that? no one has pushed a genuine wagon all game, there's been no conviction behind anything anyone has done, like, "scum would've pushed the hydra!!!" makes no sense, hydra of 2 people who can be strong players.. yeah no, scum is gonna pick like bell or anyone else instead for that "easy lim"

I don't really like your response to this either.

> I think the posting quirk makes engaging with them harder, but regardless it gives me the impression they're more likely scum.
How does gimmick automatically make someone scum? At least SS speaks english in the hydra? like you CAN understand it.. you say this too, but you have yet to try interacting at all with RR. Anytime I say something to them, they respond.

> Feels like scum would've taken advantage of it by then if RR was town.
I mean, isn't that what you're doing now? multiple people have said we're not opposed to yeeting RR.. among other names, but you picked RR to push, even though you haven't given thoughts on the slot yourself, nor have you TRIED to interact with them

> This could be a bad way to look at the game but RR's general position in the game is a strange one and I'm interested in pushing there.
Strange position? So I get yelled at that it was memorial day, and that I should be mindful people were busy ALL weekend... what if SS and Mena were just busy all weekend? Like, Why are you pushing there without trying to even talk to them? Waiting till asked to go "here's my reasoning to SR them!!"



VOTE: Meuh


this just screams scum. I'd love a wagon on Meuh, I'm not arguing RR is town, I believe they'll start giving actual stuff soon, I asked questions, I know they'll answer them, I'm giving RR time, but until then, I don't believe Meuh's push is coming from a town mindset here

This post is confusing. Kovu I believe you're town so I'm just gonna assume paranoia and misinterpretation lead you to the worst possible idea of me

"ok now you explain.. why did you vote earlier though?"

I thought my vote should be on RR, so I placed it there. That was my thought process. Probably would've been more productive to articulate with my vote, though.

"here I put all the reasoning on the table to SS, why are you basing RR scum off how people are treating the slot?"

idk what you're referring to before the comma. Yeah, maybe that's not something you like but I often base my reads on players off of the general gamestate and way they've been treated by others. I get paranoid about that sort of stuff, especially for players whose content hasn't stuck to me, like RR's.

"'if they were town scum would take advantage' do you really believe that?"

Yeah, I think it's likely

"no one has pushed a genuine wagon all game, there's been no conviction behind anything anyone has done"

I guess there's been less conviction than usual? This feels tangentially relevant to my point about scum taking advantage of RR's position if town but I ultimately don't see what you're trying to say with this.

"'scum would've pushed the hydra!!!' makes no sense, hydra of 2 people who can be strong players.."

Huh? This isn't a stance I've taken. RR being a hydra hasn't affected the way I've considered them and I haven't mentioned it. Why are you assuming I'm making that conclusion? I also have no prior experience with either player in the hydra so I don't particularly care for that.
You can make this as a point in defence of RR. However, I don't understand how that makes the stance I'm taking less likely. I think you're projecting your view of the game onto my own thought process and that doesn't work.

"scum is gonna pick like bell or anyone else instead for that 'easy lim'"

Bell literally claimed confirmable PR

"How does gimmick automatically make someone scum?"

I think you misunderstood the point I was making. I worded it poorly though so I can't fault you.
I mentioned the gimmick as a reason why engaging with them is harder to do.
...Which would be justification for the lack of interaction. That makes them more likely to be town.
So TLDR: I think the gimmick actually makes the case for RR town a bit more likely. The opposite of what you're interpreting here.

"you say this too, but you have yet to try interacting at all with RR."

Fair! That's something I've brought up myself and am currently making an attempt to remedy. I'm interested in what RR has to say and I've just thrown them a few questions.

"I mean, isn't that what you're doing now? multiple people have said we're not opposed to yeeting RR.. among other names, but you picked RR to push,"

Note the word "quintessential" I mentioned earlier. Yes, there are multiple people in a similar situation to RR, but RR is the most extreme case of such. That's why they were my pick.

"Strange position? So I get yelled at that it was memorial day, and that I should be mindful people were busy ALL weekend... what if SS and Mena were just busy all weekend? Like, Why are you pushing there without trying to even talk to them? Waiting till asked to go 'here's my reasoning to SR them!!'"

I genuinely have no clue what point is being made here.

[Meuh]

ty for pressuring me Kobu because that legitimately just gave me a bunch of energy

[Meuh]

but baltar, it's because i'm the devil, why would she unvote me

so true bestie

Marci ur so funny

[Meuh]

718 is just meh

Like it feels very easy to fake

idk if I've played with you before but this is kinda my thing. I do not post with a specific goal in mind, I give my honest thoughts even if they're not conclusive or particularly productive. Once again I must underscore that I am happy to look into any particular questions people want me to check out, I think this is helpful for both parties, but it's way too rarely done in my mind.

This bit is something I would see myself post as scum tbh

[Meuh]

bruhh I write walls.. sorry I'm not responding to that wall if there's something I need to respond to... uhhh might wanna point it out, but seems fine enough for now.

BACK TO LAVA!!!! This slot is just not great, I'm not a fan
VOTE: Lavar

Is this response to my post? If so I’d say you should read it before proposing me as a lim
It’s a literal response to your case against me.
Also why do you keep both complaining about not enough content and also complaining whenever people make walls???
Like that was my highest energy post the entire game. For you to respond to it saying you’re not reading it and then complaining that people (including me) have not done enough is just irritating

[Meuh]

718 is just meh

Like it feels very easy to fake

you sure about that? like, why does scum!RR not just call me town? like I think everyone else has? obviously I want more, but I thought 718 was a good start, like, compare 718 to a cakez wall, I like 718 more. you sure you're not just tunneled on RR now?

I don’t think a single atypical read on you is enough to make that post feel natural, no.
Also I like Cakez’s posts more mostly because of good vibes. I’m not getting good vibes from RR.
I don’t think it’s out of the question that I’m tunneling but RR hasn’t really done anything that particularly town pinged me and has been iffy so far

[Meuh]

VOTE: LavarManos

WOOO FLASHWAGON LAVAR!! E-something

Marci lim is bad so this is fun

[Meuh]

My tinfoil is that Datisi and Marci are partners. Marci tried to bus Datisi early and could not justify it.

Oh okay, I guess Lavar’s scum. That post alone convinces me
The *gamestate becoming bad for the scum team* to *proposing an insane tinfoil theory* pipeline is real…

inb4 Mathblade/Titus S/S

I did the same thing in my last game where I was scum. Right after things suddenly got way worse for the mafia team.

[Meuh]

Okay yeah Lukewarm’s town

[Meuh]

718 is just meh

Like it feels very easy to fake

you sure about that? like, why does scum!RR not just call me town?

like I think everyone else has? obviously I want more, but I thought 718 was a good start, like, compare 718 to a cakez wall, I like 718 more. you sure you're not just tunneled on RR now?

Disagree, that seems well within her scum wheelhouse.

you seem convinced I'm not town tbh, might actually mean you're scum..

usually you just like ignore me in games, yet here's the 2nd time you're like "Kovu can definitely be scum" like, what?

VOTE: RR

What happened here?

[Meuh]

I'm baffled that nobody seems to think how fast the votes accumulated on me as suspicious. Additionally, there is no effort from anybody voting me to actually explain why I am scum. The confusing thing is that I think this wagon has been driven by town. I don't really get it lol

Do you think the later votes are particularly scummy? The votes with little to no explanation? What really makes it suspicious?

[Meuh]

This is a townie.

Stuff like this is why people think you're 100% certain about your reads

[Meuh]

It depends if that’s Mena or S_S. S_S is fine with giving away some mechanics knowledge for friendly reads. They’ve done it before.

It's signed as a Reason (S_S) post

[Meuh]

That was just short form for:

"I believe that this behavior is statistically more likely to come from a townie then from a dirty scum bag, there for I am of the opinion that this slot is statistically more likely to be a townie then a dirty scum bag. "

This is a townie is just easier to type out

I'm aware, just poking fun!

[Meuh]

This is a townie.

Stuff like this is why people think you're 100% certain about your reads

TMI. Gottem’
*snore*

Have you looked at the signature at the bottom of their posts? There's links to the account of each respective person

[Meuh]

This is a townie.

Stuff like this is why people think you're 100% certain about your reads

TMI. Gottem’
*snore*

Have you looked at the signature at the bottom of their posts? There's links to the account of each respective person

Wait that's not the post you were responding to, either way yeah

[Meuh]

Val's last 3 posts look really good to me.

[Meuh]

Marci lim is bad so this is fun

why do you think my elim is bad meuh? last i heard u didnt wanna try to read me?

Because I actually think I’m decent at sorting you later in the game with more concrete information in play, it’s more day 1 that’s an issue…
So if you stay around I think I could actually figure you out. Instead of dropping a low-confidence vote on you rn

Also fwiw I think your confidence this time around doesn’t feel similar to the game you were scum we played together… you were very passive there iirc
So I have good enough vibes on you to feel iffy about limming you.

[Meuh]

Val's last 3 posts look really good to me.

ngl Val is turning out to be one of those players whose posts I just can't bring myself to read, it's really weird and I don't know why this happens. Might have to do with the structuring of the posts? After forcing myself to read them I agree with this take though.

I feel the same about Val tbh…
I’ve read his posts, but they just went into one ear and out the other. (Or one side of the brain and out the other? No clue what it would be for text )
Those 3 posts stuck out though, and I like them!

[Meuh]

I'm reversing my read on marci. Everyone wanting to wagon for the sake of having dueling wagons should explain why?
VOTE: Datisi as a placeholder

This makes 0 sense if Lavar is scum like c'mon

How come? I don’t think it does anything to clear Lavar here

[Meuh]

Datisi (2) marcistar (19), LavarManos (950)

Look at this y'all
Marci is still on her page 1 vote and day 1 is almost over
She is not even really scumhunting

Marci is stingy with her votes, I don’t think it’s scum indicative for her.

[Meuh]

Because if Lavar is scum why does he leave the counter wagon to him and his best shot of surviving?

The Marci wagon pretty clearly has much less momentum that the Lavar one. I could see the vote just be a last-ditch attempt from Lavar to save themselves.

[Meuh]

We should stick to Lavar. The info we get from it, the people behind the push and the nature of it being a flashwagon all point to it being a better wagon than Dwlee.
Dwlee not being around much sucks, but from what I’ve seen in the past they’ll likely pick up activity at some point later on.

[Meuh]

No elimination has been achieved. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-03 13:48:00).[/color][/size][/font]

Spoiler: Postcount Tracker

Player	Daystart postcount	Reserves
Fey	0	10
fireisredsir	0	10
Lady Lambdadelta	0	10
Malakittens	0	10
Lukewarm	0	10
Dunnstral	0	10
Rhyme and Reason	0	10
Meuh	0	10
Val89	0	10
marcistar	0	10
Dwlee99	0	10
Gammagooey	0	10
Kovu	0	10
VP Baltar	0	10
Datisi	0	10
LavarManos	0	10
Enchant	0	10
SirCakez	0	10
gorilla	0	10

Posts are capped at 125 posts per slot per dayphase. Please see the Ruleset and FAQ for more information and tips on tracking your postcount.

Hello friends, it is time for things to happen.

Please consolidate onto Lava.

Lava should probably claim in their next post, or for ever hold their peace tbh

+1

[Meuh]

The info we get from it, the people behind the push and the nature of it being a flashwagon all point to it being a better wagon than Dwlee.

I don't think so. How are any of the factors you mentioned different between my wagon and the dwlee wagon?

(gorilla, Lukewarm, fireisredsir, Val89, Meuh, Dwlee99, Datisi, Bell) are the Lavar voters.
(Kovu, Fey, Lady Lambdadelta, Gammagooey, VP Baltar, SirCakez) are the Dwlee voters.

Now that's from Lukewarm's votecount and it was different at the time you asked, but the general idea stays the same. People I generally townread more and trust their judgement more on Lavar than on Dwlee.

I guess the Dwlee wagon was kind of a flashwagon? Though it seemed less fast, and is less good in response to another flashwagon if that makes any sense

People have more clearly defined their positions regarding you than regarding Dwlee. Thus, it gives more information.

[Meuh]

I'd prefer for Lavar to just vote Dwlee and go "this is better than me getting limmed" than keeping the door open but not committing to it. The way they chose to.

Maybe playstyle is a part of it... but it seems like an attempt to make a later vote on Dwlee look "read motivated" more than "not getting killed" motivated.
That doesn't seem like something a townie getting wagoned would be worried about?

Like if Lavar is town here, why wouldn't they be like "hey, I'm a town member, I'll take this chance to stop my death from happening" instead of what looks like a weird "smoother" transition to a Dwlee vote.

[Meuh]

SNIPE

[Meuh]

Marci...

Playing 20 questions is gonna run me out of posts. I am getting kinda close lol

He is at e-2

Send me psychic waves with your thoughts and I'll communicate them for you, dw

PEdit: ooh who’s getting the hammer??

[Meuh]

I kinda like the way my 1097’s been picked up, the vibes are nice

[Meuh]

Tbh I forgot Enchant existed so I didn’t think about that

Gn!

[Meuh]

Marci you should hammer and get all the glory

[Meuh]

…what ever the opposite of hated is.

It's called loved, apparently

[Meuh]

I think I might just number my posts tomorrow so I have an easier time keeping track

[Meuh]

Welp. At least no prs died, that’s like the one upside

[Meuh]

VOTE: Fey

[Meuh]

VOTE: Fey

Why?

I think scum was on the Dwlee wagon

[Meuh]

Val, I'd like to hear more of your thoughts now that Datisi is dead.

Same for you marci, since you both kind of tunneled there to the exclusion of a lot else yesterday.

Oh ok, you’re scum

[Meuh]

Baltar immediately taking advantage of the death to shade other people

[Meuh]

VOTE: Fey

Why?

I think scum was on the Dwlee wagon

why? not sure what about that wagon would be suspicious

i mean it could have been if lavar was scum but they weren't

If Dwlee is town, which is the impression I’m getting; why would scum not jump on a last second wagon to get some juicy juicy towncred after Lavar flips?

[Meuh]

Them defending me as an interesting development though I'll say that

Yea relooking at this I think the defense is weird with the amount of shade they're also putting on me. It doesn't make sense to defend me at all given everything they've actually said is that I've done scummy things

And I don't know your personal "busyness" so idk maybe that's normal for you on Thursday, just a note that the dip in activity seems uncharacteristic of your other posting habits.

The dip is what's scum indicative. It doesn't matter if they've had more presence than me, which no shit they do because I've been busy. What matters is that they were around and then, as fire pointed out, they left once more reasoning was provided.

I'm really satisfied with a lavar flip. The dip after pressure is characteristic of caught scum

Who is RR and why am I partnered with them

Messed up the chronological order but whatever, Dwlee reads like town here

[Meuh]

LLD!

Read over these marci posts and tell me what you think

Spoiler: marci posts

i don't really think this is an accurate assessment of datisi as scum at all. have you read datisi scum games at all, and if not what made you come to this conclusion?

i havent seen datisi as scum at all and im not gonna meta read

i came to the conclusion because thats just how i think hes like, he gives very much vibes like hes doubtful in his abilities all the time to do stuff, am i wrong? i thought i remembered a game where he kept doubting his reads and going back and forth on them, but am i remembeing the wrong person?

@Marci what's up with the all caps posting??

i think i did that because i felt rushed, i know one of the posts i made at work and the other one while i was crossing the street

i imagine you very timid as scum

lol.

i- i- i-
go away.....
stop bullying me...
im not timid as scum... its just when i roll scum its always against people im scared of...
tbh i just generally play timid...
BUT THATS NOT MY POINT

i actually do think ur scum, and i actually do have reasons, but tbh a magician never reveals their secrets unless people ask

I actually like Fey for bandwagoning to Datisi, but don't really have any opinion on the other votes or anyone else rlly

I like fey as well, she keeps asking questions and it seems like those questions are her trying to push the game forward so i think shes towny

and like ok fine you don't have the same meta read as i do thats not scummy, but... i also don't quite get it cause like... you're saying that you think he lacks confidence as town and that you think his mafia game is similar... so why is him not responding to votes more likely to come from scum than town? like whats the difference there that you expect to see?

it sounds like you're saying "you're like this as town" -> "i expect you to be like this as mafia too" -> ??? -> "so the way you acted makes you scum"

and i don't get what the missing step there is

I don't really see why it has to be

so, so, so

hard for you to understand what im seeing... but okay!

datisi being town just seems more unlikely, i think theres more benefits for scum him to ignore the votes on him.. whats so hard to understand about it???

VOTE: marcistar

bell - scummy because he doesn't feel like he actually wants to be here
dunn - can be slight town for 50, feels nuanced *enough*
dwlee99 - lack of presence and the quickness of 118 is town.
enchant - dead null.
fey - i think slightly scummy because the convo with me felt more like posting for posting's sake but i am not married to this read
fireisredsir - town.
gammagooey - like both of the votes they've made. don't think they're trying to give off an impression that their posts are more useful than they are. slight town.
gorilla - townie for 92.
kovu - slightly townie for 81 because i don't expect scum!them to enter like that but we'll see how this progresses.
lady lambdadelta - null.
lavarmanos - slightly scummy maybe? my eyes are glazing over reading these posts. idk jury's still out.
lukewarm - mostly doesn't make my stomach turn so can be town for now. 101 is slightly sus but otherwise all ok.
marcistar - lol scum
meuh - 63 felt too tryhardy, the points on me in 79 feel off, and the "haha i am glad to be town!! and solving!!" is forced
rhyme and reason - 120 feels kinda townie idk why call it vibes. i wanna see mena freak out that i'm townreading his slot for nonsense ok.
sircakez - slightly SLIGHTLY townie for 13 because i like the tone but it's like. 0,01% more townie than random.
takotsubo syndrome - i feel like voting someone then plain unvoting because hurr durr reaction test is not very likely to come from scum? like scum would have some sorta bigger trajectory there. can be town for now.
val89 - my eyes glazed over 131 so into the scumbin you go
vp baltar - deadass no clue what to think here, ask me later

town (from towniest to least townie): fire, dwlee99, luke, gamma, gorilla, takotsubo, rnr, kovu, dunn, sircakez
void (no order): enchant, ladyld, vpb
scum (from scummiest to least scummy): marci, bell, meuh, val89, fey, lavar

cheers

I do not really like datisis reads!!
i dont think fey seemed scummy, i like what she posted so far she looks like shes trying to solve
i dont think gammagooey is "slight town", i dont think the posts theyve made is really like super helpful yet.
his read on me is i think datisis like the devil rn since hes not really trying to make me see the light of things (if im wrong), and instead hes just saying its scummy. i think hes trying to shut me down because its easy and he doesnt want his haters around.. it seems like more hes trying to convince everyone else instead of trying to collaborate with me...
i also *shocker here* dont agree with meuh feeling off yet, i think she hasnt done much alignment indicative yet and i think ur hating on her for her basic personality
i dont really agree with sircakez being slightly townie either..

^^ dismissing fire for not understanding a point you did not explain well, at best

how was that dismissing i was trying to talk it out

i'm not inviting, no. but i said what i find to be scummy posts from you and it's on you to try to change my view. i don't plan on begging you to explain yourself to me because i don't think you're approaching me in good faith at all.

where have you pointed something of mine out and specifically said "thats scummy"? all I can find is you responding to stuff of mine by asking shading it, but you've never specifically said its suspicious.
i think ur just trying to skirt around the truth that im the most innocent angel to ever grace this planet...

"why arent you trying to point out proof of why i have to be wrong instead?" your reasons for scumreading me are (1) i voted someone fire voted and (2) weird speculation about my personality. i have yno way to respond to (1) because that's not why i voted vpb but i'm obviously going to say that. and there are a shit-ton of other reasons why someone would vote someone in rvs to the point i don't believe that to actually be a genuine read from you. and (2), i asked you why you came to the conclusions you did about my personality and translated it into a scumread? you ignored it?

Are you just trying to make me feel small by outyelling me..? Is that ur goal devil datisi..?
why cant it be a genuine read from me? my vote was like page one, i just explained my reasons later so whats so impossible of those being actual genuine reasons? I think you just want to shade me and get me miselimated because i'm an easy target. (:
whys it impossible for u to just understand that I think that way of ur personality because i just

do

? Do you think I don't have experience talking with liars at all?

before you ask where:

LIKE I THINK THAT BASED ON THE PERSONALITY I THINK HE HAS, I WOULD THINK HE WOULD THINK NOT REACTING TO THE VOTES WOULD BENEFIT HIM AS SCUM. I THINK THAT IT WOULD BENEFIT HIM AS SCUM BECAUSE HE SEEMS LIKE THE TYPE TO BE A SLIPPERY SNAKE, AND NOT REACTING TO THE VOTES AND NOT MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT IT WILL MAKE IT SEEM LIKE HES COOL WITH IT, AND NOT MAKING A BIG DEAL OF IT = LESS SPOTLIGHT = LESS DOUBTING

and i would not do this as town... because...? like if you think i as town am insecure and doubting myself, why wouldn't i respond the same way as town? like, this whole explanation goes from how you've seen me as town, making conclusions about my personality, then attributing those conclusions to my scumgame as opposed to my towngame for ??? reasons

like, the confidence and annoyance you're showing about your reads grossly mismatch the actual confidence you should have and the quality of those reads.

I think ur just assuming I have more confidence than i actually do.

ALSO, the post where you criticize my reads

i think ur hating on her for her basic personality

saying i'm "hating" on someone because i said they might be scum 6 pages into a game is a little bit over the top, no?

and a lot of your points against me are "i don't agree here i don't agree there" and it's framed as if i'm scummy but why is having different reads scummy? like, the only instance where you actually explained why i might be scum for my reads is for my read on you, and i already said my problems with it so i don't feel like repeating myself but yeah

I wasn't trying to say "having different reads is scummy" but people keep framing it as so, so I guess we'll just say whenever I reply to anything datisi posts im just pointing out a reason i scumread him :shrug:
what i was trying to do, was say i don't agree and have an ACTUAL DISCUSSION with you but guess not!!
"hating on someone" is just the way i usually phrase things like that, i didn't mean for it to be so deep of a meaning just the dislike meaning.

but what do you think about Bell since they're Datisi's 2nd highest scumread? Also, do you have another player you think is particularly scummy aside from Datisi at this point?

i dont have thoughts on bell rn which is why i dont talk about him (:: i think he is usually just more invisible than other players, i can't really deny that "bell doesnt want to be here" is a pov someone might reasonably have, but i just personally don't think that way. pressure on him rn isn't the

worst

thing, but i think pressure on others is more benefical because bell will prob just come along eventually.
maybe gorilla, i think they're a capable player whos holding back like <92, 104> i think they could easily be going harder and getting more juicy info, but it doesn't really seem like they want to do that, which scum could do that? like scum dont want the game to move forward.
maybe sircakez but thats because i don't like his starting post.

theres like more people that i wouldn't mind more content from, because i don't remember them at all, but I think thats because me and datisi stole the spotlight of the game.
i think

if

datisi is town that scums sitting back and just letting this fight happen. it would explain why i cant remember anyone else

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

so selfish....... me scumreading someone is a sign of my friendship with them obviously.... you don't want me to be friends with datisi..?

still sus of marci, a lot of that early stuff about datisi is just... i have a hard time seeing it coming from a town mindset. but also like... no offense marci, but she seems clearly new. sometimes i have a hard time understanding the thought process of newer players. and like, i agree with the points for why she's scummy, but idk, some of the people jumping on her feel a bit opportunistic? and it sketches me out a bit. probably overthinking here but whatever

rude... im not new.... im the best player ever....
who is it who feels opportunistic for "jumping on me" here?

Gonna
UNVOTE: Baltar
VOTE: Marci
Cause it seems it's gaining more steam and I dislike her dislike of Datisi's reads

well what if i dislike your dislike of my dislike of datisis reads
is it all of it that you dont like or only certain spots?

Now, could be Marci is just a townie who decided to over justify a vote and didn't really think a lot about what she was saying, but she also could be scum here. Double downs aren't always easy to read, but I don't think Marci has responded coherently to pressure, and if she is town, she could have just admitted it was kind if a bullshit vote and not actually that serious.

why would i want to keep going as scum though?

So, seeing her suddenly have a page 1 RVS vote, and then double down on it, and then not be able to tell me why she even thinks it in a way that makes sense to me seemed really off.

i dont play large games often, but when i do it sure is a party isnt it?

Is this true Marci? do you have no reads this game and just floated by?
Is that normal for you day 1?
What's different this game compared to those if not and what's the same?
What are you thinking about this game?
Who oo you think is town nd who do you think is scum?

@Lukewarm: Where is Marci in your reads right now?

I've been giving reads so clearly the devil is just blind
also how convenient it is!! he hasnt asked me for my opinions on anyone certain... which he could always do if he was ACTUALLY TRYING TO SOLVE ME

theres been games where i just float by and just talk until i get something i feel in my soul. like one time someone told me it was sus for me to actually be serious about a game cuz they thought i was only a meme player ::(((
it depends on the sorta mood im in i think tbhs

i dont have alot of time to like type up thoughts since im at work for like another 4 hrs, and then ill be sleeping but if u have anything ur curious abt u can juat ask (:
i think gammagooey has a couple of agreeable takes but they piss me off so dont tell them i said that im not sure what i think of them tho aince the agreeable takes are v basic takes
i think kouvs town but i wouldnt trust them leading anything because theyre too emotional about things and too reactivey
balters i would say how self centered he is, i dont like that, so he scummy
fey towny
sircakez scummy, the bandwagoning is not good vibes at all
i dont like vals view of the invixtus mechanic because it reminds me of a diff game i played w him, but otherwise hes mid, he has some good thoughts

idk who else exists

Also would like to hear your opinion on Lavar but he's got a reasonable amount of short posts so I think he's probably iso-able in like 20 min or less

Marci looks skittish in a way she hasn't before, but that doesn't make her necessarily scum. I think that she's a good wagon though.

Vote: Dwlee

VOTE: Lavar

Oh yeah?

This is fascinating as a sudden response from you.

You better prove that role of yours tonight or you're dying tomorrow lol

The only interesting thing about that vote is that you actually responded to it lol.

I think it's interesting you directly avoided a growing Dwlee wagon for Lavar

I think Bell/Dwlee/Marci are all +town considering Lambdadelta's posting and the invictus mechanic

Gorilla's probably right regarding the comfort factor, which makes me think this kill was in large part determined in a way to avoid scum getting invictused

[Meuh]

p-edit: I highly disagree with the idea that Lady's posting points to the people she voted being town. That seems backwards to me.

huh in what way? in my mind scum would avoid killing people who scumread them, so they don't die

[Meuh]

VOTE: Dunnstral I kinda just townleaned them bc of a single good post early on and should probably scrutinize them more

Even though I think there were scum on Dwlee, there's no way there weren't any on Lavar and there were probably more there so tunnel-visioning on the Dwlee voters is bad

[Meuh]

p-edit: I highly disagree with the idea that Lady's posting points to the people she voted being town. That seems backwards to me.

huh in what way? in my mind scum would avoid killing people who scumread them, so they don't die

Despite the Invictus shot being a threat, I don't think that people are going to just say "well, they -might- shoot us, so we can't kill them". It's probably on their minds the same way that catching any PR is, but... you can't just let them float along. Something about Lady's posting has to be threatening enough, I believe, to give them a reason to want her dead beyond just "well she's not gonna Invictus any of us so let's get her."

But if scum feel comfortable with the direction town's headed, why would they not consider it heavily?
I really doubt Lambdadelta was scary enough to warrant a kill without considering invictus, if I was scum she'd be on the bottom of my choices unless there was a benefit regarding who she was likely targeting.
If someone with more conviction, more activity or more influence had been killed then I'd be considering the scenario of scum trying to shut down info more.
But considering the way Lambdadelta played, the fact she flipped vt and the presence of Invictus shots...
I'm leaning towards Bell/Marci/Dwlee being less likely scum

[Meuh]

Baltar immediately taking advantage of the death to shade other people

Yes, keep talking. You're going to get rocked here soon enough.

shiver me timbers!

[Meuh]

She had disappeared without a trace, an ominous omen of the times yet ahead. Rummaging through her papers they found where her true loyalties lied.

Perhaps surprising was the disappearance of Datisi, an aspiring young artist. Always lost in his own head, tripping over his feet and his words, and rambling about video games and the internet, he was a sign of the changing times. He had a passion for landscape paintings, and the day after Lady Lambdadelta's disappearance he took a trip out to the old fracking grounds.

Lady Lambdadelta has been eliminated! She was a...

Her determination manifests and reaches beyond this place of wrath and tears!
Datisi has been eliminated! He was a...

LLD is mentioned first in the story (and it's said Datisi disappeared a day later), her death and role pm are listed first and there's the thing about wrath and tears. If she isn't the one who died first and invictus shot Datisi, there's a serious modding error

[Meuh]

I can’t tell if LLD got invictus’d or if Datisi did.
I’m glad I read datisi correctlyish.

1203

[Meuh]

Dunn/Enchant/VPB/Cakez/Mala probably has like 3 scum

[Meuh]

I can see why Meuh is attracting votes.

Same
I think I've been doing a worse job at actually articulating my thoughts than I usually do

I should make some sort of readslist or at least be clearer about stuff

[Meuh]

Okay let's go

Bell

- Town

Fey

- Kinda meh on day 1. 1168, 1170 and 1178 feel kinda solvey though so I'm willing to just let them live at the moment. One thing I don't like about their recent posting is how posts are condensed within a small townframe. I don't remember if that's what they also did on day 1 but I find those sorts of posting patterns scum indicative. Conflicted

fireisredsir

- Mindmeldy at times and seemingly well intentioned, thinking town there

Malakittens

- Tbh I slightly liked Tako's later points. Mala's lukewarm (the adjective, not the person) reads are a bit meh as people mentioned. Also don't like how many of their posts are self-meta. Hopefully their reevaluation will be telling. Pretty much neut maybe lean-scum from

Lukewarm

- 1192 is good and I don't really see how scum!Luke benefits from it. Generally gamesolvey but ig Luke always is. Good vibes though whatever, he's probably town

Dunnstral

- Meh I need to reread, kind of lame they barely did anything day 1.

Rhyme and Reason

- For some reason I started scumreading them less... I need to reread and see why. Okay yeah most things 975 forward are good.

Val's last 3 posts look really good to me.

ngl Val is turning out to be one of those players whose posts I just can't bring myself to read, it's really weird and I don't know why this happens. Might have to do with the structuring of the posts? After forcing myself to read them I agree with this take though.

(c) do absolutely nothing pretending that i'm busy (to be fair it wouldn't even be pretending because i'm currently procrastinating like 5 different things because i'm stupid) then once someone asks go "well if i was his partner i would've bussed obviously!!!!!!!1!1!!32"

ez money

Although this might work, I'd probably call it a small brain approach as well, because it does kinda depend on people not thinking about it too hard, and if people start looking for who avoided the Lavar wagon then you'd probably be pretty high on the list.

Townlean

Val89

- Refer to 616 and 912. All of his posts today are also good, honestly. Townread here

marcistar

- Hmm... I need to reread but honestly I can't say I feel good about her at this point. Idk

Dwlee99

- 1173. Leantown here

Gammagooey

- I got decent vibes from them yesterday but I should think about it harder, idk

Kovu

- Likely town, don't really have anything to add. 280, 419

VP Baltar

- Blegh idk, his vibes are off, and also voting me is bad. I don't feel like reading his ISO rn I probably will later

Enchant

- Leanscum just from general position in the game and lack of any posts that have made me go "oh, is Enchant town here?" which has happened in their town games in the past.

SirCakez

- I honestly barely remember what I thought about him, let me go check
Apparently his vibes are good but his reads are iffy, yeah that makes sense. Confusing still
Hate the vote on Val tbh

gorilla

- They feel solvey so whatever, I'm willing to believe they're town for now


I need to reread (Marci, VPB, Gamma, Dunn)

[Meuh]

You liked 1171?

Yeah. I guess what you mentioned about the very start of it is valid, though that part never really stuck out to me. I like the other 2 paragraphs in it, the middle one particularly

[Meuh]

Same
I think I've been doing a worse job at actually articulating my thoughts than I usually do

and also voting me is bad.

How do you make these two thoughts tally together?

I can understand the thought process behind scumreading me, that doesn’t mean it’s a town indicative thing to do (and also ego)

[Meuh]

Val, I'd like to hear more of your thoughts now that Datisi is dead.

Same for you marci, since you both kind of tunneled there to the exclusion of a lot else yesterday.

Oh ok, you’re scum

Baltar immediately taking advantage of the death to shade other people

meuh, can u explain more on this? why did u call him scum but not vote him?

I was being hyperbolic, kind of was my intent at the start of the day to get people shaken up immediately and it seems to have worked considering the spooky threat VPB made

~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~

Okay so Fire and Kovu are neighbours, cool
I’m curious, why out it now?

[Meuh]

@Meuh - Which of Cakez's reads do you think are iffy?

I disagree with him on a lot of things, which I guess isn't inherently scummy but it makes me uneasy.

everyone who has posted so far is town, with the exception of dwlee (whose first post is nullishly scummy) and gamma (whose post i did not bother to read). please discuss.

lets go im in the town block

actually no Datisi is being kinda scummy

VOTE: datisi

Like meh, I guess this could be a real scumread but I don't really like it.

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

Do you think it means anything in terms of her alignment this game?

Marci and I tend to read each other poorly, especially early on in games. A whole lot of inaccurate scumreading.
I still don't think it's unrealistic for Marci to feel neut about me here though.
What does feel off about it is her using this read on me to push back on Datisi. Even if she does feel neutral about me, I don't think she says this:

i also *shocker here* dont agree with meuh feeling off yet, i think she hasnt done much alignment indicative yet and i think ur hating on her for her basic personality

This does not really seem like a way to go after Datisi that I expect town!Marci to do.

Honestly my approach on reading Marci as of late is to just not do it on day 1
It's not worth the effort in forming a read that'll probably be poor and I'd rather spend that time and energy somewhere else.
I think I'm decent at reading Marci later on in the game with flips having happened so I'd rather do it then. (viewtopic.php?p=12746354#p12746354)
There's a need for it here though because of the wagon on her, and while I don't feel great about her, it's not as strong of a feeling as the one on Lavar.

Also I just found out you can highlight a part of a post before quoting it and it'll only quote that part??? That's so useful how did I not know this

if Marci is scum this is probably scum too

Elsewhere...

-none of Bell's posts feel good like at all. he could def be scum too.

I think the way Cakez is setting up me/Marci as a scumpair while she's receiving votes might actually mean they're S/S here and I don't like the shade.
Though Cakez' later posts regarding Marci don't really feel partnered so he might just be wrong

Also maybe it's meta that justified the reads but I still don't get the Bell scumreads this game.

Meuh seems town to me.
Fire seems town to me.

Marci seems likely town to me, but I'm uncomfortable saying that when Lukewarm has a ping there. Then again, not listening to Lukewarm has been A+ the last 2 games lol.
Dwlee, I'm not sure they embarrass themselves by thinking the Marci/Bell wagon has scum in it as scum, it's fairly risky and gives them heat later that they don't really need.
Datisi, is just....Meh this game. They feel plain. But I don't know what to make of it.
Tbh, beyond a few sparks of slight creativity Baltar feels the same as last game. They got mad, but all I got from it was a brain dead vote on me, it was probably the worst vote this game, but hard to tell if it's just a character trait or not given they're relatively new to me.
I roughly agree with the universe aligning with Kovu, they're just as odd as usual. I dunno know that automatically makes them town but it might.
I actually think heart syndrome sounds vaguely town but they're sort of a none presence so it's hard to know for sure.

That's all I got so far.

This isn't antispew btw, in case you were wondering.

look how bad this readslist is
"maybe town but not sure"
"not sure if they do this as scum"
"don't know what to make o it"
"hard to tell what Baltar is doing"
"vaguely town and hard to know for sure"

these reads are trash. literally completely made up.

This feels like fishing to scumread someone tbh, which I suppose could be tunneling but I'm not sure it's being done in good faith here. Not many people this game even have strong reads and for Cakez to exclusively call Bell out on it is questionable.

I could sheep Luke on Val from the case in 530
I think especially the points about 390 and 405 are solid, those Val posts didn't make any sense and seemed way too self-focused which I expect more from scum. And the point that Val is not really sorting just staying focused on like two things is also solid.

I don't think Val is scum

And there was a big wagon on Marci who is pretty much a universal scum read. Why did that fall apart? Town evidence for Marci hasn't suddenly come to light

^trying hard to save lavar.

Obviously lol I think he's town

This post is kinda good though tbh, I like the vibes

What an ass day 1

Same for this one

Overall I don't like the amalgamation of so many reads that just don't really resonate with me from Cakez but tbh, my outlook on the game likely hasn't been the best. Especially considering Lavar's flip.
Also I'm not really getting scumpings from his posts, I don't wanna shoot there today. I think I just disliked where his focus was on day 1 but I don't have reason to think that focus was actually bad in retrospect if thata makes any sense?

[Meuh]

why was datisi town... i really thought he was scum i feel so useless maybe i shouldnt be so one minded

These posts suck and have vibes of Marci trying to emulate her town game
Her entire day 2 just reads like someone trying to manufacture content out no actual. A bunch of questions to other people and a naked vote.

did u miss that whole ass discussion me and luke had about my voting tendencies

who do you scumread besides datisi?

datisi, datisi, datisi, datisi, and datisi

sircakez

maybe luke idk i feel like even though i have a bad memory, i feel like nothing has really made me go ": O" in his posts

Marci isn't even trying to scum hunt look back at this post
She has developed nothing all game except for her repeated attacks on Datisi and me. I don't believe she's actually scum hunting.

Tbh I'm warming up to this idea
Marci does not seem motivated to solve the game

[Meuh]

EBWOP: no actual

reads

[Meuh]

The reasoning for marci being scum seems rather tenuous to me. Of course maybe I'm just too dumb to understand it. That happens a lot.

Gorilla/Marci S/S?

VOTE: Gorilla
I'm willing to try this out Enchant, don't let me down

[Meuh]

and like ok fine you don't have the same meta read as i do thats not scummy, but... i also don't quite get it cause like... you're saying that you think he lacks confidence as town and that you think his mafia game is similar... so why is him not responding to votes more likely to come from scum than town? like whats the difference there that you expect to see?

it sounds like you're saying "you're like this as town" -> "i expect you to be like this as mafia too" -> ??? -> "so the way you acted makes you scum"

and i don't get what the missing step there is

I don't really see why it has to be

so, so, so

hard for you to understand what im seeing... but okay!

datisi being town just seems more unlikely, i think theres more benefits for scum him to ignore the votes on him.. whats so hard to understand about it???

I think he seems unbothered by the votes which suggests he has no hidden guilt, which would be a reason to feel nervous.

i think thats what mafia would want to look like

This feels like the kind of awkward interaction I expect partners to have
Like it feels reminiscent of interactions like these Marci has had with her partners in the past

I dont see the point of that tbh, i mean, is not like he asked you for a 2v2 or something like that (anyway, that wouldn't be a problem either). Is like you are being so defensive without reason (We are at D1 still)

I agree, I don't see the point on him holding out reads

If someone ask about my thoughts, i wouldnt have any problem sharing them

on this note, do you have any thoughts on other people..?

(Snippet from a past game, this is S/S)

Also this

but what do you think about Bell since they're Datisi's 2nd highest scumread? Also, do you have another player you think is particularly scummy aside from Datisi at this point?

maybe gorilla, i think they're a capable player whos holding back like <92, 104> i think they could easily be going harder and getting more juicy info, but it doesn't really seem like they want to do that, which scum could do that? like scum dont want the game to move forward.

Ooh cool, a mention of Gorilla, I wonder where this'll go...

did u miss that whole ass discussion me and luke had about my voting tendencies

who do you scumread besides datisi?

datisi, datisi, datisi, datisi, and datisi

sircakez

maybe luke idk i feel like even though i have a bad memory, i feel like nothing has really made me go ": O" in his posts

Is this true Marci? do you have no reads this game and just floated by?
Is that normal for you day 1?
What's different this game compared to those if not and what's the same?
What are you thinking about this game?
Who oo you think is town nd who do you think is scum?

@Lukewarm: Where is Marci in your reads right now?

I've been giving reads so clearly the devil is just blind
also how convenient it is!! he hasnt asked me for my opinions on anyone certain... which he could always do if he was ACTUALLY TRYING TO SOLVE ME

theres been games where i just float by and just talk until i get something i feel in my soul. like one time someone told me it was sus for me to actually be serious about a game cuz they thought i was only a meme player ::(((
it depends on the sorta mood im in i think tbhs

i dont have alot of time to like type up thoughts since im at work for like another 4 hrs, and then ill be sleeping but if u have anything ur curious abt u can juat ask (:
i think gammagooey has a couple of agreeable takes but they piss me off so dont tell them i said that im not sure what i think of them tho aince the agreeable takes are v basic takes
i think kouvs town but i wouldnt trust them leading anything because theyre too emotional about things and too reactivey
balters i would say how self centered he is, i dont like that, so he scummy
fey towny
sircakez scummy, the bandwagoning is not good vibes at all
i dont like vals view of the invixtus mechanic because it reminds me of a diff game i played w him, but otherwise hes mid, he has some good thoughts

idk who else exists

Oh cool, she just dropped it entirely
Marci's favourite hobby is throwing slight scumreads on her partners and not following through with them...

Still from the same game

Samawoodo -

slight scum

I didn't agree to how he could be seen as awkward earlier in the phase, though I find it quite weird that since he defended himself, he hasn't come on since.. It might be because of timezones and him not having time, but I would really like to see him give more reads at this point.

and she finally votes him here

VOTE: VFP I tried looking at votes, I don't think this would be hammer, but i'm unsure. If It is i'm sorry for not announcing intention. I think this would be the best flip for today.

(VFP was Sama's replacement)
She only votes her partner after she's basically backed into a corner on it and for the purposes of a fake pr claim gambit, for context.

ik meta's boring and not that meaningful to people not in the game, but ooh boy I'm getting convinced Gorilla/Marci are scum/scum and that's a piece of the puzzle I've been neglecting.

[Meuh]

Making a vote on me because you think I

could

be scum with marci seems rather backwards, no?

I skimmed your ISO and it's a whole lot of questions with no follow-up to look busy and for the amount of posts you've made, there's not much that actually looks like scumhunting.

[Meuh]

Also, your case is...a handful of posts from within the first 10 pages of the game? Seriously?


I think if you actually looked through games you'd find hundreds to thousands of instances of players having slight scumreads or awkward interactions or whatever and them not being mafia teammates. Trying to find the exact team based on interactions with 17 players alive is just terrible, terrible process and I strongly doubt you'll catch scum at a rate better than random doing it. If you actually have an issue with anything I've said, come at me directly rather than making a nebulous associative case. Your entire reasoning falls apart if marci is town, so I don't see why it makes sense to come after me - and since I know

I'm

town, it means your reasoning for marci being scum isn't very credible to me.

iirc you got called town by like one person on page 4 or something and everyone accepted it. Time to question that a bit more
Ik preflip associatives aren't that productive but let me engage in my conspiratorial thinking a bit. I'm passionate about it and it's fun!
Perhaps the point I made about you/Marci being scum together falls apart if she's town, but independently I think you're scummy, or at the very least you should be scrutinized more. Enchant's vote prompted me to look at your ISO and... yeah. It's not great.

PEdit: read people better I kicked the hornet's nest as VPB would say, scum big mad!

[Meuh]

Imagine thinking sheeping a troll who is openly not playing the game and probably has <<<rand voting accuracy is a good idea. The type of player who would have been an easy policy kill back in the day.


Anyawy, go ahead and scrutinize me. What are you getting out of this, exactly?

Since when am I sheeping? I already said Enchant's vote prompted me to reevaluate you, and I drew my own conclusions from there. For you to be this dismissive of it all is odd.
Enchant being a policy lim "back in the day" doesn't somehow make you less scummy, I don't care. The fact this is the angle you're approaching my vote with makes me think you're not engaging with me in good faith.

I don't think scum were under any significant threat yesterday, and as such I believe we should look at people who were under-examined rather than simply revisiting people who were the main wagons on day 1 (marci, dwlee - although i'm still not totally sure about dwlee).

You mean we should look at people like you? Like what I'm doing at this very moment? You're pretty much the player who got the least pressure on day 1

[Meuh]

"you're reading me wrong so you're scum" is not exactly the most convincing of cases.

"You are reading me wrong when you managed read Lavar (who appeared was being treated very similarly to me) correctly with an huge degree of confidence, so you're more likely scum than a player with excellent reads in these circumstances" is convincing, at least for me.

That's pretty bad logic. Someone can be right on one player but wrong on another. It happens all the time. People just have different perspectives.

I'm leaning towards Bell/Marci/Dwlee being less likely scum

marcistar

- Hmm... I need to reread but honestly I can't say I feel good about her at this point. Idk

I need to reread (Marci, VPB, Gamma, Dunn)

@Meuh -

Can you explain what caused your read on marci to shift? You had her as town through the end of day 1 and seemed to very suddenly decide you didn't feel good about her.

A good bit of the reasoning would be against the rules to bring up which is meh
Otherwise Lavar flipping town makes my thoughts on yesterday’s wagons a bit different. Plus Marci’s posts today particularly struck me as seemingly fake and not actually scumhunting. (Also I’ll be honest, I found a good bit of the day 1 push against Marci boring and I didn’t really sink my teeth into it properly, I hadn’t really thought about her alignment that hard)

[Meuh]

@Meuh, your points on page 52 felt like solid enough reasons for you to think that marci is scum, and I can even see where you got to gorilla being a possible partner - but why in this scenario would you go for gorilla first over marci?

3 reasons:

1. I think we get more info out of pressuring Gorilla, who has mostly been left alone this game, than Marci, who’s been pushed a bunch already. It felt like it’d contribute more and advance the game more to vote for Gorilla. (which I stand by, Gorilla’s last few posts are juicier info than whatever Marci’s response would’ve been)
2. I’m interested in giving more merit to the ideas low activity players are putting out, to hopefully make them engage with the game more and/or get info on that player from the way the push goes from there. Similar to why I decided to vote with Lavar in 296.
3. Until we’re at a stage at the day where we’re headed towards is to lim someone, I like having some high impact votes, and that vote on Gorilla would be high impact. For the way it goes against a lot of people’s views on the game, and also since Enchant already had a vote there, making it more meaningful.

[Meuh]

I change my mind, I want Dwlee gone again, that wagon d1 was good, dwlee hasn't gotten townier since
VOTE: Dwlee

Unless they wanna start actually being towny

jk this can wait, I'm joining the Meuh wagon
VOTE: Meuh

I definitely don't tr Meuh, and I wanna say meuh and marci shar a pt, like that's how those 2 seem, both blend together here yes, I hated the "im not sheeping I had this thought!!!" thing so much, like, why is it a big deal you weren't sheeping?

if that was truly your read, you'd have been voting.

…but it wasn’t my read. As I’ve already said, Enchant’s vote prompted me to check out Gorilla’s ISO.
I didn’t really like it, and so I decided to push there.
Also why exactly are Marci and I sharing a pt? We talk in some relatively similar ways, we “blend in”, but what else?

[Meuh]

These posts suck and have vibes of Marci trying to emulate her town game
Her entire day 2 just reads like someone trying to manufacture content out no actual. A bunch of questions to other people and a naked vote.

why r u acting like its abnormal for me to do this when im completly lost? i do this all the time

Oh cool, she just dropped it entirely
Marci's favourite hobby is throwing slight scumreads on her partners and not following through with them...

nah, thats my 2nd fave hobby.

also like lol "snippet from a past game" ur using a game thats over a year old and acting like i couldn't have changed my style at all since then (iirc my first scumgame on site), like maybe i haven't yeah, but why not use a more recent game like holiday dance party to try and make a case on why im scum? i think ur just tunneling on me and trying to justify ur read in any way that you can.

Do you? I don't really recall you forcing your general vibe/posting style in the past tbh

The game I immediately went to was that one since it's the only scumgame of yours I've actually played, so I understand more properly the context of it all.
My argument was kinda weak though, at that moment it was kind like my suspicion on you + my reevaluation on Gorilla happening at the same time and it felt like I was connecting the dots and getting somewhere regarding my reads. So yeah I was tunnel-visioned. Still don't really feel great about either of you, though.

Do you think I'm scum, Marci?

[Meuh]

UNVOTE:
I need to reconsider

[Meuh]

no sorry, i dont want to join my scumread on a wagon, shocker there.

Why not?
and if Gamma wasn’t on the wagon, would you jump on it?

[Meuh]

I think it's very interesting, like you guys are all "just invictus enchant!!" or "enchant is scum!!!" just enchant goes "Gorilla maf" and now all of a sudden everyone is like "yeah!!" like, why did you have to wait for enchant for you to actually do something?
"Since when am I sheeping? I already said..."
ummm you waited for enchant.. yeah it falls into the category of sheeping, like, sure I definitely agree with gorilla being suspicious. for sure. but this wagon coming from a town (collective unit) where many yall are actively like "enchant isn't town!!" like, that feels really odd to me, also as long as gorilla continues to be like one of the only ones actively doing anything, I'm not voting gorilla d2

hard agree with all this.

Oh yeah? Quote where I called Enchant scum or said to invictus them.

You can't, I never said that. And I explained why I voted gorilla in my post above, it's not sheeping enchant or the marci-gorilla case (which I'm admittedly not sold on).

So you two are talking about Meuh then, but referring to them as town (collective unit) and implying that this is a thing multiple people are doing.

No, you don’t get it!
3 people voting on Gorilla = hivemind that represents a large portion of players. It’s very concerning. Trust me.

People do stuff when what’s happening in the thread prompts them to???? Inconceivable, people are simply mindlessly following Enchant, as scum always do

VOTE: Gorilla
Can’t stop voting Gorilla until Enchant changes their vote, as I am incapable of independent thought

[Meuh]

why is marci suddenly super interesting in enchant? like enchant is being enchant, why are we suddenly like "omg enchant!!" like did you just sheep enchant's vote on gorilla? or meuh did, so you're like "I refuse to vote with my SR" but like you and meuh have been BFFs all game, and meuh(or you) sheeped enchant's gorilla vote?

I think I have to remind you that Marci and I are different people, and treating us as a single entity is not a good way to read either of us.
I’m the one who voted with Enchant, not Marci.
and Marci refusing to vote with her scumread refers to voting with Gamma. She doesn’t want to vote with Gamma because of a scumread there.
Marci and I don’t have a PT, we just talk kinda similarly and have alike pfps, don’t know what else to say here

[Meuh]

What about you being able to confirm that Bell is town would have meuh "get rocked" for suspecting you?

I think the way I played that is pretty obviously town, which of course I'm subjective about, but objectively, if I'm scum and get that message, I doubt I come out immediately and start crumbing before Bell posts. Scum!VP would have waited for Bell to make the first move before posting. So ultimately, I think Meuh looks worse for attacking me baseless at day start.

Why do I look worse? I don't exactly get the point here. Do I look worse simply because you think that you look more like a townie; because of the way you handled the Bell confirmation?

[Meuh]

Luke town
Datisi town

Marci town

Kovu town
Fey ?town

I’m going to bed

I’ll explain further d2

R&R is the one who never voted besides me, however, they are town.
Kovu is town imo.

I’m ok with a Luke & Marci town.

I really do need to reevaluate though and do a good reread, but that will be tomorrow most likely.

NGL:

I am liking the following for town while I'm reading up. I'm on the bottom of P52.

Val feels town; Dun feels town; Kovu feels town; Luke feels town; Fey feels town; R&R feels town.

I'm not vibing at all with Meuh or Marci's posts. In fact, I feel like Meuh is worse.

Fire feels slightly towny, but I also am in disagreement with his crap case on me considering he finished a game with me where I was on the lower post count similar to here.

I don't really know what to make of Bell.

I didn't like the tone of VPB esp when he was talking to Meuh. It just felt off. Like majority.

Bell is confirmed town.

VOTE: meuh

Good place to start right now.

Uhhhh… what happened to that Marci read?

Also those 6 townreads you just sent are the same ones you had yesterday which you never elaborated on, + Val/Dunn. What changed with those 2? and can you elaborate on some of those reads?

[Meuh]

Tbh I trust townies to out whatever information they have that would be pro-town to out. I'm not particularly interested in speculation about PRs because at best we derail the conversation from scumreading, and at worst we force people to out info that they shouldn't.
Unless there's a real advantage to discussing it (like with Lukewarm), that's not really something I want to delve into.

[Meuh]

Bell's role is kind of surprising, the ability for a player to conf-town themselves in this setup is really overpowering given the invictus mechanic. Still, I don't think it's particularly likely to be a scum gambit.

Also this might be tunnel vision but this paragraph from Gorilla's stuck to me. Scum view the game as more townsided than it is and town view it as more scumsided than it is. I think this might just be a slip of a scum mentality.
What townie reacts to Bell's claim with saying it's overpowered? It irks me

[Meuh]

Tbh I trust townies to out whatever information they have that would be pro-town to out. I'm not particularly interested in speculation about PRs because at best we derail the conversation from scumreading, and at worst we force people to out info that they shouldn't.
Unless there's a real advantage to discussing it (like with Lukewarm), that's not really something I want to delve into.

If you are talking about Mala, it's my view that it was so heavily implied it essentially is outed, and making sure everyone is explicitly aware of it, or else having my perception (which I suspect may well be shared by others) corrected if it is faulty; does assist in scum hunting by narrowing our PoE, particularly when I see bell voting Mala.

What exactly are you taking issue with here?

Meh, I guess Mala's said enough to be effectively out.

u dont know what happens if u and ur target are twinning right?

i yhink the checking for a lie plan would be most useful in that case ( :

why was datisi town... i really thought he was scum i feel so useless maybe i shouldnt be so one minded

VOTE: val89

Do you scumread Dwlee?

Where is Bell's "role confirmation"?

I received a message from the mod overnight confirming Bell. He is clearly a friendly neighbor. (Answer's Luke's request as well)

It's more stuff like this. While neither example I think will do bad, I think if more people prod in those ways; we could get those "info that shouldn't have outed but has been" situations. I'm a bit scared of that.

[Meuh]

Bell's role is kind of surprising, the ability for a player to conf-town themselves in this setup is really overpowering given the invictus mechanic. Still, I don't think it's particularly likely to be a scum gambit.

Also this might be tunnel vision but this paragraph from Gorilla's stuck to me. Scum view the game as more townsided than it is and town view it as more scumsided than it is. I think this might just be a slip of a scum mentality.
What townie reacts to Bell's claim with saying it's overpowered? It irks me

Not really. It takes just a little bit of thinking about the setup.

As it stands, we're at 17 alive. Every cycle, we get a day elimination and an invictus kill. The mafia get a nightkill. We go through this 5 times and we're left with 2 alive, and at that point either we've killed all the mafia and won or we've lost. That means we get a whopping 10 kills to get things right. In a regular game you'd get 8 - while that doesn't seem like a

huge

difference I think the extra kills are a pretty big deal.

(This, of course, is not taking into account the possibility that mafia have any sort of roles that can affect invictus kills. That's entirely possible and would balance things out but any speculation about such a mechanic would be a wild guess at this point. I'm hoping there's nothing too outrageous).

So at this point, we really just need to settle on the names of seven players as being the most town and kill everyone else. Bell as (presumably) conf-town is a big step toward that goal, and is unequivocally a good thing. Make no mistake: I am happy about this! That is the reason I have mainly been thinking about who I most trust as town this phase.


Anyway, a lot has happened, I'm catching up now.

I genuinely have not thought much about the setup. My focus has never really been there.

I guess that makes a bit more sense?
Though you specifically reacting to a pro-town role being revealed by calling it "overpowered" still irks me. That sort of perspective was what bothered me more.

~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

I'm kinda curious, I wonder if there'd be merit in the idea of all of us always targeting the same person? Like a group decision would be less likely to be correct than an individual decision, because scum get a say in it. However, scum can deliberately pick people who won't Invictus them to kill and manipulate kills in that way. If we pick together, they're unable to do it. It'd be like a second lim in a way.
The pros of group decision probably don't outweigh the cons? Coordinating it sounds like hell, and Independent shots from townies is a powerful thing for us to have. But I'm kinda curious if it has any merits (past the mechanical benefit for Lukewarm's role).

[Meuh]

For the record, I also believe Lukewarm's claim; one reason being that with the mod saying explicitly that there is EXACTLY ONE role which exceed the guidelines laid out, and for lukewarm to then pontificate they are that exactly one role invites a counterclaim if lukewarm is scum

I think Lukewarm’s claim is real, but the point you’re making here doesn’t work. If one person in the scumteam has that role that exceeds guidelines, any of them can then safely fake-claim it.
All Lukewarm’s claim proves is that one of 2 scenarios are true:
-Luke is town and has the role that goes beyond guidelines
-Luke is scum and someone in the scum team (maybe him) has that special role.

It doesn’t really clear him.

[Meuh]

I thought about that lukewarm post and this is what bothers me about it - the mindset is very off. I have been a wagon for most of the day. In what world am I possibly trying to keep marci and him from being townread? How is that a realistic or plausible goal for me as scum at all right now? I am highly likly to die before he is. How can he possibly think I have...any chance of discrediting him here as scum? It doesn't add up whatsoever.

Discrediting other players both makes the wagon on you look less significant and makes you actually look like you're scumhunting. (Something that you've been called out for doing too little of)
I don't really see how it clears you here

[Meuh]

I thought about that lukewarm post and this is what bothers me about it - the mindset is very off. I have been a wagon for most of the day. In what world am I possibly trying to keep marci and him from being townread? How is that a realistic or plausible goal for me as scum at all right now? I am highly likly to die before he is. How can he possibly think I have...any chance of discrediting him here as scum? It doesn't add up whatsoever.

Discrediting other players both makes the wagon on you look less significant and makes you actually look like you're scumhunting. (Something that you've been called out for doing too little of)
I don't really see how it clears you here

Neither of those players are voting me. How does discrediting them help the wagon?

I've fairly obviously been hunting all day now. If you still think I'm doing too little, that is genuinely pathetic.

Calling me pathetic just makes me wanna vote you more, fyi! We're playing a cute little game on the internet, relax

[Meuh]

[Meuh]

ok on a slightly different topic

i intentionally didn't give reasoning for my meuh vote because i wanted to see how she would respond to it

she didn't, which i think is kind of not a good look at all

she's been townreading me all game. i townread her for p much all of d1. seeing the lavar flip made me rethink things a bit, and after some of her posting early d2 and after rereading d1, i ended up with a scumread on meuh. i did post 1333, but that wasn't the extent of my reasoning and she never acknowledged that post either anyway

and idk, when someone that im townreading, that has previously been townreading me, that i have felt kinda mind-meldy on, when that person then votes me without giving much reason, i would probably want to question that or at least talk to them and try to work out what's going on. i like to talk to my townreads and from my reading of meuh it seems like she generally is that type of player as well. so i would expect her to have a similar mindset if she was town. but scum could be more likely to worry that the person has good reasoning and be hesitant to engage, or may not want to draw attention, or any number of reasons

this isn't like a huge point for me bc different people could respond differently etc etc but it definitely doesn't make me feel any better about meuh

1333 was similar to a post I already replied to iirc, and others (I think Baltar too?) had brought up the same thing. I’m not particularly interested in replying to the same points several times in a row. I think I’ve also been asked some stuff that I missed, if anyone has anything they asked and didn’t get a reply feel free to, I probably just missed it
Tbh seeing your vote I mainly got the impression you disliked me for going after Gorilla, which isn’t really something I think there’s much to respond to beyond what I was already talking about with other people.

I’ve kinda felt a disconnect when you placed that vote because in my eyes I’ve been playing pretty clearly town (I’m a particularly easy player to read).
Plus as you mentioned we’ve been mind-meldy so I’ve been trusting your judgement so I kind of felt shitty to see you vote me.
This all happening on top of the general pushback to a post I made feeling like I was meaningfully solving the game. I felt shitty because of it all, I was a better townie when I first played games here a year ago it seems.

TLDR: I wasn’t in a particularly good mood and your vote felt like something that piled onto a general pushback against me so I didn’t really see a reason to individually address it.

If you wanna discuss it now, I’m down

[Meuh]

TLDR: I wasn’t in a particularly good mood and your vote felt like something that piled onto a general pushback against me so I didn’t really see a reason to individually address it.

If you wanna discuss it now, I’m down

ok

1) i don't think it's very reasonable to say that you're an easy read. i read through your flash games scumgame and you started off pretty strong and imo only really fell off near the end, but expressed a desire post-game to put in more effort next time and keep improving. i don't think you've really been around long enough to be declared as a polarized player. also, std just said this almost exactly to me in a game where people said he was out of his scumrange, and i ended up believing it, and he was scum, and i lost in elo by not voting him. so im not feeling super inclined to follow arguments along those lines rn

2) my reaction to seeing the lavar flip was that i may be seeing the game from the wrong angle and that if i was on the wrong page, then the people who i felt like i was on the same page with... may not have good intentions. did you feel that way at all, prior to my pushing back in your gorilla case?

3) walk me through your progression on lavar. when i reread i found it hard to believe as genuine, and felt like i may have had it backwards on who was scum in the interaction between you two. what did you see prior to 296 that you felt were good vibes, enough for you to sheep a prior scumread? what made you decide to vote him in 822? i thought that you adding on the reasoning in 833 after the vote was kinda sketchy, although I agreed with it at the time

4) i know you've explained your thought process here a bit but i still feel like i need more. i just cannot understand how you were townbinning gorilla, even at the start of d2, then only really started considering him as a partner to marci, but still focused your push primarily on him, and now still seem to be scumreading him. can you summarize your reasons for scumreading gorilla, and what changed your read, independent of marci? 1295 just seems really counter to everything you've said about the slot previously. 1300 is also very odd considering you were one of the people declaring him town early

5) i still don't really buy your reasoning for scum being on the dwlee wagon. do you stand by that?

1) I'd argue with you about my play in Flash Games but that doesn't seem productive. I did say I want to improve, bc I think I've been playing poorly as either alignment as of late. I've been frustrated with this game for a bit but that's in large part frustration with myself. I don't think this means much to argue though so whatever, and your weariness because of std is fine.

2) Honestly? Not really. Though I'm not sure what you mean with "prior to my pushback". My reaction to the Lavar flip was kinda weird. I liked the voting bloc we had formed. So when Lavar flipped town, it was less "oh, my perspective on the game was wrong and I should reconsider" and more "oh, the bloc chose the wrong person" if that makes any sense? That's part of the reason why I got focused on the Lavar

wagon

more than Lavar themselves near the end of the day. The people, the timing, the unity, it felt right. That's why I wanted it to go through. and Lavar flipping town, while disappointing and not what I was expecting, didn't really shake that. I started questioning that a bit more though, as it got brought up and I came to make my own little readslist in 1233 and came to scrutinize what I was thinking a bit more.

3) Okay, so that moment. 292 made me laugh a bit and felt good. Like it just radiated good energy. His reasoning for his vote on Tako also overlapped with my reasoning on Tako earlier, and my vote on Enchant at that point. 294 also seemed natural and I liked it, though that may just be ego. The overlap in purpose between Lavar and I's votes also motivated my vote on Tako. I like joining votes other people place more than place standalone votes and I was interested in giving more merit to his ideas, both from the good recent vibes and to help sort him.
I didn't like the Marci wagon. I don't like sorting her day 1, the arguments against her didn't particularly hook me (I honestly barely remember them) and iirc the people pushing for her weren't the people I was most trusting of at the time.
Do keep in mind that the post Lavar made that I hated happened after my vote. 833 I spotted something I did in the game just before this one as scum in a similar scenario. To me, this made Lavar very likely scum. In Flash Games, MathBlade came in to crush my dreams. I then threw out a tinfoil "jk... unless?" as a reaction as some sort of way to try to salvage the gamestate, as poor as that attempt was. Here, the flashwagon came to crush Lavar's dreams, and he had the same reaction of throwing out a tinfoil. That immediately felt terrible to me.

4) It's kind of a situation of a few factors coming together at the right time that made me turn around on Gorilla.
1. So I had made my readslist not long ago which was not only helpful to others but for me, to more fully anchor myself somewhere. I lose track of my own thought processes when there's 16 people to read.
2. After making that readslist, I realized there were too many people I thought were town who voted Dwlee for me to be scumhunting almost exclusively there. It didn't compile. So I was a bit more skeptical of people outside of that group.
3. I was more suspicious of Marci and saw associatives there (though you said independently of Marci, oops)
4. There was a vote on Gorilla, I like voting where there's votes.
5. I wanted to see where the wagon went to assess Enchant better, like I did with Lavar on day 1.
6. While making my readslist, I realized how unsubstantial my read on Gorilla was at that point. Questioning myself on it, it felt like an odd read to let exist in spite of this.
7. I looked at Gorilla's ISO because of Enchant's vote, and didn't like it. I spent a whole lot of words talking about associatives between Gorilla and Marci, but that wasn't the only thing that stuck to me there. It was just something I was interested in delving deeper into, and it was easier to express. It's hard to really show something like "Gorilla's content lacks much actual scumhunting". Like am I just supposed to quote some posts I think are a part of this? None of them on their own would adequately prove my point, because it's a wider pattern in his gameplay. Kind of like how several people (including myself) have complained about Dunn being less substantial later on in day 1. I don't recall anyone actually pulling out quotes from it, it's just broader issue with the way Dunn's played that can be seen by looking over a good deal of posts. I recommend anyone to ISO Gorilla and see if they get any similar impressions from his day 1.

5) Kind of. I think the assumption I was making was still very much stuck in my mentality that wasn't questioning the bloc we had formed on day 1. I still do think it's fairly likely for scum to want to jump on Dwlee near EOD to get more towncred. Plus I think scum like spreading their votes around, so I'm under the impression there's at least 1 scum who was voting Dwlee. I was probably overestimating this, though.
Like the Dwlee wagon is this: Kovu, Fey, Lady Lambdadelta, Gammagooey, SirCakez.
Kovu I think is town, Fey's been looking town to me as of late tbh, LLD is town, Gamma I'm meh on and same for Cakez. Not really insane scum potential in this pool imo. Also I could've sworn RR voted for Dwlee? But I guess not. I townread them anyways so it wouldn't change much.

[Meuh]

Dwlee wagon 2.0????
Hmm I'll have to think it through, I might prefer Dunn at this point tbh

[Meuh]

Gorilla probably isn't a good lim target either way; and I don't think we get anything out of him being pushed further at the moment

[Meuh]

I'll VOTE: Dunnstral now and think later

[Meuh]

The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-12 15:30:00).

[Meuh]

I might prefer Dunn at this point tbh

What's tipping you toward Dunn over dwlee?

I recall there being some things I slightly liked about Dwlee's ISO but I need to give it a second glance
As for Dunn they've just been kinda meh all around

[Meuh]

some parts of Meuh's #1589 feel gross

What feels gross about it, and do you think these “gross” parts make me scum?

[Meuh]

1719 feels mildly town-indicative.
Dwlee’s back and forth with Fire almost looks like its objective is to discredit Fire more than anything else…
Can’t say I like that.
Looking through Dwlee’s ISO, I feel like some of their posts could very much be fabricated by scum trying to feign ignorance you know? Stuff like 1056 and 1149 kinda spooks me.
1369 is a confusing way to dismiss that argument? Though iirc that argument was used in favour of their innocence so I can’t say it think it’s scum-indicative here, might actually be +town. Ehh but they’re aware of it in 1578…
1425 I was a fan of at first, but the “town slip” was just lack of knowledge on the nightkill? Which could easily be pointed out by scum.
1655 is weird to me. Why does Kovu’s stance here actually matter? That’s, as I mentioned earlier, something I feel was made with the goal to discredit Fire. 1679 too.

Skimming through Dunn’s ISO, there isn’t that much that stands out to me? I’m not seeing much in terms of townpings or scumpings. Meh.

VOTE: Dwlee since I’m uneasy about them and feel stronger about them

[Meuh]

@Luke

My invictus will be on gorilla tonight. I don't feel bad about claiming this because I really don't think I will be targeted by mafia or that they benefit from shooting into that. I'm telling you this so you have somewhere to use your power role if you can't coordinate anything before an elimination is reached. I think it would not be a bad idea for a few people to do the same, but that for most people this would be a bad idea.

Okay yeah let's maybe not lim Dunn today

Also I just remembered a good bit of what had me clear Dwlee earlier was the LLD kill. Meh I guess that's relevant, but not enough to avoid limming an otherwise scummy player imo. This also makes me curious: could the mafia have like a doctor? (Who would then block invictus kills) That could be a way to mitigate town's power and make mass-targeting one person bad, right?

[Meuh]

Tbh considering how much I seem to have annoyed Gorilla that vote isn’t really scum indicative

(Also Marci pls don’t freak out like that it just makes everything more uncomfortable)

[Meuh]

My vote on you has literally nothing whatsoever to do with annoyance toward you pushing me earlier.

Okay. I still don’t particularly understand it tbh

[Meuh]

I'm fairly invested in a dwlee flip tbh. I don't think they are addressing this pressure well, and there is a lot of info to be gained in that flip. Meuh is bad, but is almost so aloof I think it is town.

i thought meuh's response to me earlier was p decent but i feel like she kinda dipped down a bit once the pressure on her was gone and that feels a little scummy to me

By “dipped down” you mean that I’ve been around less? Or smth else

[Meuh]

Also VPB’s likely town. I was conflicted earlier but at this point if he isn’t, I’d be surprised

[Meuh]

I'm fairly invested in a dwlee flip tbh. I don't think they are addressing this pressure well, and there is a lot of info to be gained in that flip. Meuh is bad, but is almost so aloof I think it is town.

i thought meuh's response to me earlier was p decent but i feel like she kinda dipped down a bit once the pressure on her was gone and that feels a little scummy to me

By “dipped down” you mean that I’ve been around less? Or smth else

partly yea, and just generally having a lower profile when you are around. even your post on dwlee felt like it was kind of trying to go with the flow more than be proactive

Fair enough. Tbh looking through Dwlee’s ISO I was looking more for scummy things (to see if anything contradicted my prior position of Dwlee being town) and I think that came through in the actual post bc it was pretty one sided. (and that wasn’t a good angle to approach it from, since my original reasons for TR Dwlee didn’t have much to do with what they had posted)
Still think they’re scummier than Dunn though

[Meuh]

I am in mood of questioning, ask your questions.

I will answer them. Probably.

Any players you think are town?

[Meuh]

I think Meuh is ignoring my post about her post.

Fair enough. Tbh looking through Dwlee’s ISO I was looking more for scummy things (to see if anything contradicted my prior position of Dwlee being town) and I think that came through in the actual post bc it was pretty one sided. (and that wasn’t a good angle to approach it from, since my original reasons for TR Dwlee didn’t have much to do with what they had posted)
Still think they’re scummier than Dunn though

And this is a false dichotomy. There are multiple days left on the deadline and there's support for other people like Cakez

Haven’t other people said similar things when it comes to you vs Dunn? Why are you only calling it out now that I’m the one suggesting the lim is likely between you 2?

[Meuh]

Also Dwlee what do you want me to say about your post? I really can’t be bothered to partake in an extensive back-and-forth that ends up with no one’s minds changed, like the discussion you had with Fire. I doubt anyone would get anything out of it.
SirCakez as a lim doesn’t particularly compel me, though it wasn’t out of the question until Kovu’s post just now. Definitely don’t want a flip there because of that; and I don’t think Kovu should reveal any more than she already has.

[Meuh]

This is an annoying fight we can have tomorrow. Let's lim dwlee and just get some info then.

+1
We should wait on resolving these clears, if there’s liar we’ll figure it out tomorrow but there’s no rush to it

[Meuh]

Also meuh and VP are coordinating to try to rush through the phase

We’ve gotta discuss this one in wolf chat

and no, I’m not particularly interested in rushing through the phase, we should make full use of our time.
…it’s just that exploring certain avenues today would do more harm than good, the confirmees would be one of those. Patience is a virtue, after all!

[Meuh]

Also meuh and VP are coordinating to try to rush through the phase

We’ve gotta discuss this one in wolf chat

and no, I’m not particularly interested in rushing through the phase, we should make full use of our time.
…it’s just that exploring certain avenues today would do more harm than good, the confirmees would be one of those. Patience is a virtue, after all!

Literally doublethink

I’m so smart I can think twice at the same time

If not getting people to out info that would be harmful is what you’d consider rushing, then I guess I’m rushing through the phase.

What makes you think it’s coordinated?

Also I forgot Mala was voting me tbh, that’s interesting

[Meuh]

Except I'm gonna flip town and regardless of my alignment you'll go "woops guess dwlee should have been townier" and we are just wasting a day phase

I don't think that is how I play as town at all. If I fuck up, I tend to just own my mistakes.

I will spend some time tomorrow giving you and Dunn another read because I'm not gonna be an asshole who just dismisses you here. But fair warning, I've been reading the game fairly closely even as I've been pretty busy the last couple days, and I haven't found your responses to pressure very persuasive.

Fwiw I unironically really dislike this post, verbal tic aside
Not sure I see why VPB would be a better lim than Dwlee or Dun, though
Guess that's what makes it a gut tunnel

[Meuh]

Meuh, can you explain for me how you got from this:

You know that part of 1589 (point 4) you complained about being overexplained? That’s what it was explaining

[Meuh]

pedit -- @ Meuh, I don't recall complaining about you overexplaining things. I will give this a read though.

Oh huh maybe it wasn’t you
I know someone complained about it but it’s all blending in together

Pedit: On the spot, Enchant’s vote is what made me truly make that 180. I do think I should’ve expressed my uncertainty on him better instead of letting it boil at the back of my mind, but I can’t change that now. I’ve been particularly “act first, think later” this game and that’s likely not a good thing but meh

[Meuh]

So many posts, so little time… I should be able to catch up tomorrow but is the deadline too soon for that?
Pedit: ope that’s a nice welcome

[Meuh]

I get the vibe scum are scrambling rn, if all of this discussion is town driven than we are one hell of a dysfunctional town
Makes me want a Dwlee lim more

[Meuh]

I guess I’m the scumteam’s last minute diversion since no one’s taking strong stances on my alignment? How many votes do I even have rn

[Meuh]

If he is scum, and I don't out, I die to his invictus.

Would scum have invictus shots? That seems to auto-punish a correct town vig.

I have a hard time believing VPB doesn't know this by page 80, regardless of alignment

I don't think Luke's play makes any sense as scum and I'm willing to twin him

Pedit - oh look who returns when attention is back on them

what even, this is not an argument someone makes in good faith here

Also Baltar/Meuh have engaged in mutual noncommittal shade to each other pretty consistently. They both will say "oh y'know this is kinda scummy" or "this is a garbage post" but then mindlessly vote with each other.

What if, VPB's scum who's townreading me for vague too scummy to be scum reasons. Then putting out things he finds scummy about me often, so he can flip the switch and go after me whenever he wants.
That's the vibe I'm starting to get because I have a hard time believing he's being genuine a good bit of the time
Not a lim happening today either way so ig I'll pretend I'm particularly excited for a Dwlee flip
I'll jump on Marci if that gains momentum because it's better than me dead

PEdit: Well, the switch's been flipped

Mala prob town for the stance on following R&R here tbh

I think that a scum team with enchant on it would be down for enchant to be viged. It gives him his invictus kill.

It is basically +1 scum directed kill compared to the current most likely way scum!enchant dies this game (death by invictus).

Fair point to not vig enchant.

Pedit - oh look who returns when attention is back on them

KILL THIS

HOLY FUCK

HOW MORE OBVIOUS CAN IT BE

ATTENTION HAS BEEN ON ME FOR DAYS

BALTAR HAS NOTHING BUT MINDLESS SHIT FLINGING

Ugh is Dwlee actually town here, mindmeld here

@dwlee, cool theatrics. You can address the actual game content or people can just vote you and end your misery. I understand it is not fun to be scum who is on the chopping block forever.

this is horrendous wtf

[Meuh]

There's worse things than me getting mislimmed here, though I wonder what would be gained out of my flip
Kind of doubt I'm on the right track when it comes to reads at this point, this game hasn't really resonated with me; if that makes any sense.
Getting to fire off my invictus shot would be fun though
But what scum team even kills me, like ever; I'm ideal to take to endgame at this point
Blegh if you guys have any questions, ask them to me
Not much stuck to me while catching up honestly

[Meuh]

@Meuh - who are your strong town reads atm? It might be in your iso already but I'm about to head out for an hour or so

Bell (regardless of confirmation)
Lukewarm
Kovu
R&R
Val

Those 5 are the ones I trust the most.
Which kinda sucks because Bell's been busy, R&R's disappeared, I don't trust Kovu's reads, Val's wrong about me and Luke's almost out of posts

[Meuh]

@Meuh - who are your strong town reads atm? It might be in your iso already but I'm about to head out for an hour or so

Bell (regardless of confirmation)
Lukewarm
Kovu
R&R
Val

Those 5 are the ones I trust the most.
Which kinda sucks because Bell's been busy, R&R's disappeared, I don't trust Kovu's reads, Val's wrong about me and Luke's almost out of posts

Oh Fire also exists
Him too

[Meuh]

There is zero chance meuh and dwlee are both town.

Hi, Gamma, I'm interested in your dwlee thoughts and their play in recent pages.

do you think we're S/S? (Hint: we are not, as I am town)

[Meuh]

Idk on that. There are weird dynamics at play though. You came out today shit pushing me, then ignored me when I moved elsewhere, and now it is a shit push again now that you're catching votes.

I probably need to analyze how you are voting/playing around each other, but I'm fairly confident there is one scum minimum between you two.

Pedit- @meuh

In what way does scum!me benefit from shit pushing town!you, like at all. In what world does it gain momentum, in what world does it make me look better, in what world is it an actual thing I would decide to do there, if not genuine. If I was trying to push someone to save myself, why not yknow, the other leading wagon? ...instead of the person that other leading wagon is voting for.
My thoughts happen when they do. I hated your opening today, then got decent vibes from you. As of late, your interactions with Dwlee have been terrible and despite you acting like you're giving them a real chance, you keep engaging with them in bad faith.

[Meuh]

In what way does scum!me benefit from shit pushing town!you, like at all. In what world does it gain momentum, in what world does it make me look better, in what world is it an actual thing I would decide to do there, if not genuine. If I was trying to push someone to save myself, why not yknow, the other leading wagon? ...instead of the person that other leading wagon is voting for.
My thoughts happen when they do. I hated your opening today, then got decent vibes from you. As of late, your interactions with Dwlee have been terrible and despite you acting like you're giving them a real chance, you keep engaging with them in bad faith.

I think you thought I could be an easy push and you didn't know what you were getting into.

As far as dwlee, curious why you think I'm bad farthing them when they have used multiple attacks this game on multiple people that are just straight up untrue. Like, that's been proven. What I said about them not being around yesterday when attention turned is accurate. Fully possible dwlee was busy, but the difference is that what I said is 100% accurate, and things dwlee has pushed are 100% not accurate. So who is really bad farthing who here?

Spoiler:

The point you make against Dwlee here makes sense I suppose. Tbh a lot of Dwlee's back-and-forths with others haven't really stuck to me, both from being unenjoyable to read (people getting frustrated and going in circles) and iirc relatively meta based? A bunch of games I haven't played in isn't the most compelling thing to consider. So I might not be giving those enough weight

...but this is still not an actual counter-argument to what I've said. Dwlee potentially engaging in bad faith argumentation doesn't somehow nullify the way you've been acting? You're not even denying you're engaging with Dwlee in bad faith, you're just saying Dwlee has also done so. Kinda confused

Also how could I think you're an easy push? Like you're posting plenty and haven't been pressured that much from other active posters. and even if I was ignorant to you not being an easy push at the start of the day... why would I be calling you out once again rn?

[Meuh]

Tbh yeah, I’d love to just sheep Bell here

[Meuh]

Let's do it! VOTE: VP Baltar

[Meuh]

Hornet's nest

[Meuh]

I objectively play the same way as either alignment.

huh
So we should all be neutral on your alignment? No one should townread or scumread you?
If there's no way for us to be able to read you since you play the exact same as either alignment; shouldn't we lim you right now to avoid having to sort an unreadable player in endgame?

[Meuh]

VOTE: Marcistar
Probably the best option at this point?
I'm feeling like my suspicion on VPB might be tainted by annoyance

[Meuh]

The Day 2 deadline is in (expired on 2022-06-12 15:30:00).

[Meuh]

Didn't marci claim some kind of info on RR? I thought we had already gone down this path.

That was Mala iirc
Don't think Marci's been claiming any sort of info or pr

[Meuh]

@fire - marci hasn't done anything new except annoy Kovu and continue the *not doing shit* she's done the whole game, and it could be Meuh realizing that she's the main wagon and that marci's the next best option if a VPB wagon doesn't get off the ground

But on the other hand I think it could a)very easily be bussing or b)I could just be wrong about Meuh being scum so I'm very disinclined to give a shit when a wagon on an actual scumread of mine can go through instead of the one on Dwlee

Yeah, it's kind of unlikely for a wagon you like to go through, without anyone you feel mildly suspicious of jumping on it. Especially early on in a game this size.
Broadly speaking, the actions of whoever's getting wagoned > the people on said wagon, so I kinda like this mindset

[Meuh]

marci, you should claim. you're at Enchant E-1 right now.

oh : (( whyd a wagon build on me so fast?

im just an odd night doc

Who were you on last night
and how does your role interact with invictus shots

[Meuh]

Hey guys! Wrote this before daystart. So whatever happened at night isn’t considered.
I decided to research. Ctrl-F people’s ISOS for Marci’s name, and vice versa!
A new advanced investigation technique.

Dunnstral

132 - Shading Dwlee for scumreading - but not voting - Marci.
134 - Questioning Marci’s typing style
712 - A lot of Dunn’s engagement with Marci so far comprises simple questions which don’t seem to get followed up much.
916 - Marci answers
1081 - Responding to an argument against Marci in a way that both diminishes the argument and draws attention away from Marci.
1088 - Oh, Marci’s response is acknowledged. Dunn likes some parts of Marci’s post, but doesn't like others. This is probably the juiciest interaction of theirs so far and I’m not convinced they aren’t paired.
1234 - This is interesting stuff. Dunn throws some shade Val and Marci’s way, but also says the Datisi wagon was likely town-driven. Don’t like this one.
1241 - Marci likes Gorilla’s reasoning on the Dunn vote. Does not push Dunn further.
1375 - Marci shades Gamma for not pushing for Dunn on day 1. And she “doesn’t like” the vote on Gorilla.
1395 - Marci shading Gamma’s vote on Dunn. When prompted to vote for Dunn, she answers “no sorry, i dont want to join my scumread on a wagon, shocker there.”. Ooh boy.
1398 - She makes her refusal to vote on Dunn more about Gamma being scummy and shifts the blame there.
1403 - Dunn makes sure to clarify that while they scumread Gorilla, they aren’t sold on Gorilla/Marci.
1636 - Asking about Dunn
1723 - Throws Marci in as a townlean along with VPB and I. They apparently like Marci because of Luke’s said she’s town, unlike the others who they scumread on their own merit.

I think the one-sidededness of Marci and Dunn’s interactions could mean Dunn’s not partnered with her. Within the 2, Marci has the bulk of the awkward interactions. I’d still say they’re >rand scum, and I’m uneasy about them.

Fey

80 - Marci likes Fey. To note this is specifically being said in response to someone else’s townread on Fey.
108 - Fey thinks this is Marci’s towngame. From what she recalls, Marci not freezing up and responding to stuff is out of her scope. Bit of a weird read.
148 - She thinks Fey looks townie and thinks Datisi is scummy for suggesting the opposite.
279 - Is a bit clearer about Fey’s read on Marci and feels better than her last post on the topic.
928 - “Fey towny” is mentioned and not elaborated on.
971 - Fey votes on Marci, specifically as a response to Lavar. Makes sure to mention she doesn’t particularly like the wagon.
1011 - 40 posts later and that vote is gone, in favour of the Dwlee wagon.
1178 - Marci townread exists, Fey never mentions her again.
2088 - Oh. Marci thinks one of Fey’s posts is weird.
2216 - Marci’s at 7 votes and decides to say she scumreads Fey. Cool. This is probably distancing.

Fey’s probably the most likely scum in this game.

Edit: Ouch, those were some not accurate shots.
The impression I get from the modpost is that these 2 chains happened.
VPB died -> invictus Lukewarm
Mala died -> invictus Dwlee
If you look at the story and the separation in the role pms, that’s what makes most sense

I wish scummier players had been killed
My top 3 scumreads are still alive sadly
I’d guess VPB was the mafia kill, and Mala was Lukewarm’s kill.

I suppose this confirms R&R and makes Bell’s clear being fake impossible, right? Doesn’t really change my outlook on the game but it’s nice!

@Dunn I think your assessment of who killed who is correct

Oh and Dunn got there about Fey before me
Stealing my thunder!

VOTE: Fey

[Meuh]

I think maf has a role that messes with the invictus shot of who they kill

Wouldn’t this defeat the point of the setup? I kind of doubt this is the case

Also why fake clears? It’s infuriating

[Meuh]

They apparently like Marci because of Luke’s said she’s town, unlike the others who they scumread on their own merit.

It wasn't because "Luke said she's town"

I agreed with the post Luke made. Also Marci really stepped up her scum game from the last time I've seen it, where it was really obvious.

Was that game Tarot? If so then that read makes a lot more sense. That game is the exception to the rule though, she’s less obvious than that in basically all of her scum games. She’s fooled me before

@Kovu Sometimes townies are wrong. They could also want to shoot their less popular scum reads, since they’re unlikely to die at day (I think VPB killing Luke fits the bill). I don’t really find it that hard to believe that a few townies were wrong.

I mean, I have info that I'm almost certain clears cakez so yeah, he's not being limmed here

Cmon, this is a fake clear.
That post pretty clearly was made to make us think Cakez was mechanically cleared. Deceiving the town is usually a bad idea, though.
You could’ve just told us you had reasons to not want Cakez dead.

[Meuh]

Dwlee’s dead

[Meuh]

[Meuh]

Yeah but detective only checks the current night and the previous night. So it checks 2 nights total.

Pretty sure it’s not just the last night, it’s all past nights

[Meuh]

I really don’t get why anyone would want to invictus or investigate Dwlee last night, I think their scum equity fell massively with Marci’s flip

[Meuh]

I think the way Cakez is setting up me/Marci as a scumpair while she's receiving votes might actually mean they're S/S here and I don't like the shade.
Though Cakez' later posts regarding Marci don't really feel partnered so he might just be wrong

TMI?

There's a lot of worse Meuh posts on marci but this bit struck me as particularly notable from her ISO. I think this is 2/3 right here.

I had a thought and I posted it

VOTE: SirCakez we can see if this flips scum. I kinda like Fey's last few posts either way
Honestly I've barely thought about Cakez since the clear because I assumed he was just town

Also do you think my vote on Marci was a bus? Cause I was the one who started the cute little vote chain that ensued. This is for Gorilla but also anyone else who thinks I might be scum here. If it is, do you think the other votes were coordinated? Who are the other scum who bussed with me?

Pedit: That readslist is fine tbh. I wouldn't be too surprised to see the other 3 people in the scumpool actually be maf
Ehhh tying Fey's alignment to the presupposition of me flipping scum is iffy
But like overall the thought process is fine

[Meuh]

I really think there's scum in Marci's final 3 scumreads. I don't think she drops a scumread on 3 townies right before dying

[Meuh]

@meuh, why doesn’t Marci drop a SR on three town right before dying?

I think she's distancing-oriented as scum and I doubt she wouldn't take the opportunity to do at a time where it's very likely she's flipping.

@Gorilla: What if 1287 is just correct? There's benefit for scum to tie a townie to a scummy player and I think with the similarity in our play, it's an easy sell.
Actually considering Kovu was mixing Marci and I up later, I wouldn't be surprised if Cakez was setting up my mislim in hood. (they had a hood on day 2 right?)
I wish I would roll scum with Marci, that sounds fun actually! The scum chat gossip would be 10/10

[Meuh]

@meuh, is the distancing-oriented thing a meta read or a personality read or is it based on her play this game?

~Rhyme

Pretty meta I suppose
I don't have a clear example of it in mind aside from her scumgame I brought up earlier, but I think that's how Marci would approach things.
It's a general feeling about her play

@Gorilla 2319: I made pretty much the same points in 2233. Copycat

[Meuh]

iirc this would be it

1. Bell - Friendly Neighbour (confirmed by VPB), also in Cakez' hood
2. Fey - 2 shot detective (N1 Datisi, N2 Dwlee, no red result on either)
3. fireisredsir - Neighbour with Kovu
4. Dunnstral - None
5. Rhyme and Reason - None (has been cleared by Mala)
6. Meuh - None
7. Val89 - Novice traffic analyst (VPB N2)
8. Gammagooey - None
9. Kovu - Neighbour with Fire, also in Cakez' hood
10. Enchant - None
11. SirCakez - Neighborizer (Kovu N1, Bell N2)
12. gorilla - Bodyguard

Please correct me if anything is wrong

~

@Rhyme: I don't have one. It's a feeling I have and you don't have to also have this feeling.
Also, they.

[Meuh]

11. SirCakez - Neighborizer (Kovu N1, Bell N2)

Don't think this can be correct. Kovu referenced a discussion they had with fire about Lava's alignment pre-flip, which suggests they had to both be in the hood on D1.

Can we have confirmation from someone in the hood, please?

I think Fire and Kovu were in a hood from the very start, and Cakez’ hood is a separate thing altogether
I think hood 1 is Kovu, Fire
and hood 2 is Cakez, Kovu, Bell

[Meuh]

I mean, we're happy to do that if you flip town, sure

Also kinda wanna chain Cakez and force him to put us in the hood with Bell and Kovu

~rhyme

What's the point of being in a hood with likely scum

No post cap?

Also let's just lim Cakez imo, then we get to go crazy with our invictus
(Especially since there being a mechanic that counters us coordinating invictus shots is likely)

Pedit: Agreed with Gorilla here, Gamma should be considered long-term but for the time being there's no reason to lim him over others.

[Meuh]

While I'm a bit frustrated about the Cakez clear stuff, I don't really think it's worth the discourse. Doesn't actually help us solve, so we can talk about it post-game if we still want to

[Meuh]

What do you think about Fire in this whole ordeal?

[Meuh]

VOTE: Dunnstral this should work

[Meuh]

I feel like with the way the game is set up, I'm probably inevitably getting invictus shot or limmed.
That should be fine though, since I think we're still oriented towards a win either way.
Worthy sacrifice!

[Meuh]

FYI if Dunn flips town everyone’s invictus shot needs to go on sircakez.

Isn't that what we said about Fey as well?

Who do we want in the hood tonight if we aren't flipping SirCakez today, bearing in mind that removes my ability to cop them for the remainder of the game? General question to everyone.

R&R is pretty much the only option that's a net positive here

Pedit: yeah

Also should we even be coordinating invictus? I still feel like scum must have some sort of counter to it

[Meuh]

VOTE: SirCakez
SirCakez wagon 4ever!!

[Meuh]

UNVOTE:
Wasn't that E-1

[Meuh]

Wait no
VOTE: SirCakez
E-2
I accidentally counted both my old vote on Cakez and my new one

[Meuh]

Like, don't all of you SR dunn? why are we defending dunn by pushing cakez instead? we ALL SR Dunn... and most of yall don't want to vote there?

I also think Cakez is scum and I'd rather resolve that first

Anyone else thinking Enchant is scum here? I don't really see a world where they aren't at this point

[Meuh]

Is it just Marci/Cakez/Dunn/Enchant?
Or could Fey be scum still
hmm
I have doubts on Val or Gamma being scum
I suppose Fey could still be scum though
I'm somewhere like this:

Meuh
RR, Bell

Fire, Kovu

Gorilla
Val
Gamma

Fey
Enchant
Cakez, Dunn

[Meuh]

VOTE: Gamma

[Meuh]

Yeah this is why I didn’t mention this earlier, fair

UNVOTE:

[Meuh]

I would die for my country but I could never let my country die for me!



AMERICA!!!

[Meuh]

VOTE: Dunn yeah okay we can do this!

[Meuh]

I'm a tesla fanatic

Aren’t we all?
Elon Musk

Also, I had a dream last night and for some reason I thought of this??
But instead of saying you’re a tesla fanatic, you said you “could invictus someone tonight” which sounded super fake…
So I started questioning you on it, it was very dramatic, the dream never got further than that though
But if my dreams tell me you’re suspicious, then you must be!

…But I’ll UNVOTE: to avoid day ending early.

[Meuh]

I also think Cakez is scum and I'd rather resolve that first

What's changed in the last 12 hours?

Cakez got a bit townier and Kovu’s VCA pushed me a bit more in that direction.

[Meuh]

…But I’ll UNVOTE: to avoid day ending early.

It was your vote that put the day end in reach...

What's your thinking here?

There hadn’t been a votecount in a bit, I thought my vote was E-2