Veiled Committee Mafia: List Mods Edition [game over]

[DragonEater70]

K so yeah IDC atp about the day cop thing, I want to actually play mafia.

[DragonEater70]

Dragon is town btw

I know :p

[DragonEater70]

Spoiler: irrelevant fluff

The one who consumes!
Or now that I think about it, the one who consumes dragons?
@DragonEater do you eat dragons or are you a dragon that eats in some sort of notable way?

Well it's complicated. My username does refer to eating dragons (see also my signature), but when I was little I was told to make a wish and my wish was to become a dragon and that's sort of what my dream has always been. So in a sense I'm a dragon who eats other dragons.

Meuh, you said you like scumhunting? Let's play a game. We totally ignore anything that happened before page 116, and based just on things from that page onward, who do you think is scum?

(I'm also gonna answer this question but first I actually have to read these pages)

[DragonEater70]

Okay gg ez I just got recruited into Aureal's cult and it's really nice here.

Who recruited you?

Okay gg ez I just got recruited into Aureal's cult and it's really nice here.

Who recruited you?

I am quite sure this was a joke.

Yes exactly.

[DragonEater70]

Spoiler: Summary of all amway stuff

Aureal's Amway role:

1. Use a sales pitch to create a hood. Up to two neighborhoods a day can be created. (1623, 2303)
Specifically, the process to open a hood is:

• quote someone to target them
  
• write a sales pitch phrase in the post
  
• if they respond, a hood is created. (1881)

**note: the sales pitch does not have to be in the game thread. So scum can give each other Amway amongst themselves** (2519, 2524)

2. In the hood, the recruiter can bring the hooded person into the MLM and the recruitee would get a copy of all Amway abilities, including ability to hood and recruit people (Aureal - 1564)

3. Once recruited into Amway, original night actions can't be used unless you leave Amway, which costs the leaver's vote the next day. Day actions, passive attributes, and roles are otherwise retained. (1623)

4. People in Amway can continue to recruit after Aureal is dead, and dead Amway still count towards number of recruits (2382)

5. xyzzy will answer whether there's enough recruits to perform an action. The # of recruits is determined at the start of night (2535)

Abilities unlocked:

(an ability can be used once a night - Aureal 2872)

Recruit 1 to send a message
3 to neighborhood
6 to roleblock and open a neighborhood and autorecruit (same target)
10 to vig and recruit -

is this the same target

?

* Neighborhood creation/recruitment should fail if targeting another Amway (2838, 2845). This could be used to detect unknown Amway if scum secretly Amway themselves .

List of hoods and recruits:

1. Aureal hooded Anix (per 1564), who hasn't accepted recruitment
2. Aureal hooded KatyKimFanClub, who accepted recruitment (2230, rationale is in 2219)
3. KatyKimFanClub hooded Theta Alpine, who accepted recruitment (2261, 2316)
4. KatyKimFanClub hooded Ircher,

did the hood get created & Ircher accept recruitment?

(2279, 2835)
5. Theta Alpine tried to hood Skygazer,

Skygazer needs to respond to this post

(2360)
6. Theta Alpine hooded Bingle, who accepted recruitment into Amway (but recruitment should fail due to Bingle's role) (2359, 2364)
7. Bingle pitched to DragonEater70 to demonstrate that he can't hood others (2538? or maybe 2536?)

* some of the linked posts should have recruitment phrases

Special interactions:

Bingle - can't recruit anyone else to Amway, can be neighborized, can accept recruitment to Amway but probably doesn't count as a recruit in terms of total recruit numbers (Aureal - 1564)
Theta Alpine - with the desperate modifier, she can use neighborhood ability like a cop check

This summary is appreciated and even though you could do it at scum it at least makes reading the thread more bearable so ty so much.

[DragonEater70]

atp feel like dragoneater might be coached scum by aureal to never push on her

No I pushed her hard earlier.
I might still push her.
I'm still trying to figure things out because I think the solve is either:
Cook/Drew/2 others
Or
Aureal/Ircher/2 others

And I don't think these are compatible, and right now I'm leaning the first option but if Cook flips town then I'd definitely go for the second.

Why can’t it be cook/aureal? That’s a world I think is very likely.

I feel Ircher has very strong associatives with Aureal and has been consistently anti-Cook. But maybe it's random noise. I don't think I've considered the possibility so I might take a look at it but like I said, I have 70% confidence that AUreal is town right now.

Have you heard about this new opportunity to make extra income?

No, what does it entail?

[DragonEater70]

I'm super interested

[DragonEater70]

Okay I changed my mind about looking at only recent posts because I read Bingle's page 118 post about Cook/Ranger thingy and it made me remember something.

On the pages before the post below was made, there were a bunch of players who I think are town, that were voting each other. These were, if I recall correctly, AniX, StD, Koba, Bingle, and maybe some others.

UNPOPULAR OPINION (please read):

We

shouldn't

massclaim. We also

shouldn't

have a fight between team Koba and team AniX.
I think scum is in the lurkers. Let's wait for them to show up and then vote whoever is scummiest.

Then Cook's response is this.

dragoneater scum?

To me this sounds like scum that is mad that a town player dares disrupt a tvt fight. And also mad that I dare think their scumpartners are lurking.

So I might be fine with voting there. But I do actually want to complete my game of just looking at last 7 pages and seeing who is scummiest.

[DragonEater70]

here's a thought

VOTE: kkfc

I'd like to know your thought

[DragonEater70]

Who do you see actually "playing Mafia" at this point as opposed to just going "ugh let's kill someone!"?

Good point.
But Theta's deadline has run out so I'm playing mafia for realz now.

[DragonEater70]

Maybe if Bingle would stop putting out bad takes, I wouldn't feel like my most important task is correcting them!

Who do you see actually "playing Mafia" at this point as opposed to just going "ugh let's kill someone!"?

Sorry , post contains 0 mafia solving and all excuses , disregarded.
Sort the damn game or die

Your refusal to answer the question is noted.

Your fallacious defense by attacking someone else is noted.

[DragonEater70]

Maybe if Bingle would stop putting out bad takes, I wouldn't feel like my most important task is correcting them!

Who do you see actually "playing Mafia" at this point as opposed to just going "ugh let's kill someone!"?

Let's just kill Cook.

Cook is obvious town and your confbias is getting on my nerves too.

You've yet to explain how Cook is obvious town whereas I have explained why Cook is scum. Maybe you should check your own confirmation bias.

Yeah your confbias "case" did 0 to convince me and you're just so far up your tunnel its pointless to convince you.

When was the last time you bothered to interact with cook?

Dude Ircher's got a point though. Can you like explain why Cook is obvtown other than "they sound like a player who's tired of being mislimmed"?

[DragonEater70]

ugh i have 0 idea whats going on anymore and im kinda busy for a while but at a glance koba v aureal is SvT

Who's the S?

[DragonEater70]

Spoiler: stuff

Mafia wont push things bc they dont wanna piss p ppl off into pushing them back.

There are 4 mafia and all aureal has is 2 scumreads the whole game.
Yes the progression looked ok on the surface level but again, list 5 reads aureal has this entire game.
3k posts, aureal has posted many of them, and still not a single fucking poe, or reads list, or towncore, or anything resemble resembling attempting to make reads

This post is so wrong it's

First, "Mafia won't push things" is a pile of crap opinion, but really...

Trying to not piss people off is supposed to be describing how I've played this game?!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Oh and I already gave reads on every slot in the game, but oh, I guess little things like facts don't matter

Guess you didn't do a great job evaluating my 'progression' if you didn't even bother paying attention to that, genius

Like, the problem with these reads is that they are not explained in any way. And please do not pretend that you don't see a problem with that. I've played enough games with you to know that you are very capable of explaining your reads masterfully.

[DragonEater70]

I'd eat a tomato like an apple tbh I love tomatoes

Same

[DragonEater70]

somehow the non game related food discussion feels like significantly better than mech talk and also I'll contribute that I love Munster cheese

I agree

[DragonEater70]

Please let's just vote Klick.

Reasoning?

[DragonEater70]

Based on page 119 only:
Meuh is scum
Theta null
Aureal nullish but leaning town
Bingle super town (roger on who needs to be cleared)
CCS is town
Koba is town

Based on page 120:
Fuck I hate this page so much, where did all the obvtown players go
ofr is nullish leaning town
Skygazer nullish leaning town
PC is rereading
Koba is saying "Holy shit do u ever stop posting about your role" which I find amusing mainly because I agree with them. They are still town.
Ircher is nullish leaning town but I will scumread them if Cook flips green.
I really wanna flip Cook red now so I can scumread Meuh's desperate desire to steer away from a Cook lim

Page 121:
Koba is town whiteknighting scum.
Ircher is super duper town
IDK is Cook is even playing at this point? Her posts sound like she's trying her hardest not do anything AI at all.
Meuh is 100% scum if Cook flips scum here. That defense is just crazy.

122:
I think I am too tired for this shit but CCS is still town.
Aureal maybe scum?
Okay Meuh is actually towny here. Good grief I might end up townreading her despite the confbias.
Katy ese un mafioso?
Skygazer too null for null

123:
Meuh is very celery here
Skygazer nulltowning it again!
AniX still pushing me which is just meh.
Ofrhz is slightly scummy for randomly deciding to vote Klick instead of Cook with no reasoning given.

Page 124:
I sus DragonEater70 for starting to make shorter posts when all game long he was making long posts. This is clearly caught scum who doesn't know what to do in the face of a spot-on push from AniX.
Meuh can be maybe-not-scum for now. But I want her to also play.

Based on these pages (and also page 116 which I forgot to include), the town are:
Koba, Ranger, Skygazer, Bingle, CCS, Ircher
These people are null af:
AniX, Theta, PC, Ofrhz, Klick
And these are very probably scum (but none are lockscum!!! I just want to be very clear about that and let Bingle know I agree with them):
Aureal, Meuh, Cook, Katy

I still think Cook is the best wagon today but I promised Koba that I'll try to actually play mafia and not just vote Cook, so right now I will
VOTE: Katy

[DragonEater70]

i find it odd you dropped the readslist thing and are actively pushing reasoning.

My last readslist was 2021. The list still holds, aside from the Ircher tier. Ircher should be up with DragonEater70, and Random Nurse bumped down to around the Alisae slot.

Mentally, I didn't think it was enough to warrant posting

. As there's more a change than I thought, you're right about a need for an update.

{KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy, Political Clout, DKKoba}

(all on the caveats of Meuh/Cook flipping scum)

{DragonEater70, Ircher}
{Bingle, AniX}
{Save The Dragons, Theta Alpine}
{ofrhz}
{Klick}
{Aureal, Skygazer}
{Meuh}
{Cook}

I find it weird that you say that because normally you post your readlist every page even if there's only a slight change.
Still at least your reads are consistent. Which actually thinking about it is probably in your scumrange so whatever.
I'm lowkey thinking that maybe Ranger pocketed me hard this game and they might be scum. But I'll put the thought aside for now (at least until someone who pushed ranger has flipped).

With that said, your argument for specifically implo making that specific group does seem to hold water.

If the argument holds water, it's guaranteed.

Thanks to the xyzzy-siterules-clarification, I can't risk going into the details. I'm 100% sure Cook is from my group from Cook's posts discussing formatting and knowing it's an exact match to mine. I'm 99% sure KatyKimFanClub and camelCasedSnivy share this group. Their being likely EpicMafia-based roles bolsters the odds all of them being together.

1. Ranger has been using hyperbolic language when pushing Cook, saying multiple times the cay

guarantee

that Cook is scum, even though they base their evidence on speculation that we have no way of confirming regarding the role groups.

I'd happily elaborate if doing so didn't risk a modkill. I

can't

be anything except hyperbolic about the role PM groupings being guaranteed. My reasons for scumreadking Cook specifically in the group are beyond just my role directly countering hers.

Fineeeeee

2. Ranger has explictly stated they wanted to fake claim, and then said that these statements were a breadcrumb to their role? Except I don't really see how it breadcrumbs anything.
Don't see any relation personally.

I never actually pointed out all of my breadcrumbs. 32 was admitting I wasn't going to lie in my claim. 34 lays out I'm not just a miller. 45 was saying I was going to lie and claim my real role but say it's a fakeclaim. 95 was saying fakeclaiming's a bad habit. 131, I answered I should be aiming at town, because removing town modifiers/passives usually works as a +town buff. 133, I was fishing for negative utilities to claim, because I wanted to target negative utility players. 309, I kicked off massclaim because I selfishly wanted to know the best players to target. 1002 was meant to be posted the day after 309 yet was delayed due to my partner's situation, and was me following through on the prior breadcrumbs because the questions I asked about my 'fakeclaim' were me asking questions about my real role. I sent five questions to xyzzy to clarify the nature of my ability.

IDK I clicked most of these links and I don't think they're remotely breadcrumbs? Either Ranger is using the term very loosely here or she's actually making this shit up.

Until they got really angry about Cook being in the same grouping as them.

My only emotion regarding Cook is annoyance I'm not being followed to an elimination.

We have a guaranteed group of four which

certainly

contains scum, and it's a group with relatively active players who most slots have given commentary on. It's not a wagon on lurkers who give little information, it's a wagon on a player who has plenty of interactions which could break the game wide open if we actually flipped her.

If Cook were town it'd reveal one of {KatyKimFanClub, camelCasedSnivy} as scum, when that's against most players' expectations (throw in Ranger if being objective), and if Cook's scum then it conftowns all three within.

I've not towncased KatyKimFanClub or camelCasedSnivy, yet I

have

laid out why I believe Cook's scum by play.
Cook had a strong initial entrance, universally thought of as town.
I suggested Cook as deepscum.
Cook's demeanor instantly shifted as I began to push her.
She went from not paying attention to me at all to consistently portraying me negatively and trying to discredit me.

Cook's interactions with the Meuh slot heavily suggest they're scumbuddies.
Cook's play has gotten more anti-spew and more defensive as the pressure ramped up against her.

Cook's stances also shifted in response to 2043(first draft, 1972).

Throw in Cook's role is positive utility for scum to use (tacking on negative-utility modifiers to town players) and my role directly counters her (removing negative utilities), and there's a very high chance Cook's scum. Doubly so, if you think KKFC/CCS are town.

Could

I be wrong? It's possible. Still, this is the most sure I've ever been on a scumread.

I agree with the bold statements. I also forgot to quote Bingle's post but I agree with them that Cook is scum by play but not by mech.

VOTE: meuh
ok I think I have enough to say to flash wagon this

This is a good wagon and I'd join you there, as Meuh has a high chance of being scum. Not as guaranteed as Cook, yet high enough to warrant risking a D1 elimination, should we fancy it.

For whatever ungodly reason nobody wants to vote Cook, I think Meuh might be a good wagon, but first let's give her time to scumhunt like she wanted to. She might turn my read of the slot around.

[DragonEater70]

How are Cook and I both probably scum given the likelihood of us belonging to the same listmod group. Both our roles deal with randomization and are of negative/mixed utility.

I don't give a shit about speculating which rolegroups people are in before someone flips. For all I know both of you could be inventing the claim completely.

Also I didn't say you were necessarily partnered, just that you have higher than random chance of being scum, individually.

[DragonEater70]

It's pretty fair that people find me scummy though, I definitely made the conscious decision to not try to scumhunt this game given my role.

Why would you ever do that?
Like I know you give utility when you die, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to influence the game before you die.

[DragonEater70]

Katy ese un mafioso?

Wait I just read this again. You think I'm scum for microwaving cheese?

I think you are scummy for starting to talk about food right after Koba said "it's towny to talk about food"

[DragonEater70]

AniX still pushing me which is just meh.

The fact you refuse to recognize how scummy your supposed role makes you seem makes you seem all the more scummy.

I kinda disagree with this take that "not seeing why I am scummy makes me scummy", due to the following:
1. You started by scumreading me for having too simple a role. (which btw I still disagree with. PC, Alisae/ofrhz, Katy and maybe some other ones also claimed some pretty simple roles. Also, you have no way to know which rolegroup I'm from. I could literally be the only one from my group)
2. Then basically everyone else kinda accepted that my role isn't too simple and fits neatly into the "normal role with unusual modifier" category. Meaning nobody but you is scumreading me for my role.
3. Therefore by your argument that not realizing it's scummy is itself scummy, is everyone else scummy as well for not scumreading me for this?

If you actually have a different argument from what I said here, feel free to present it. I promise i will read it properly and might even be convinced by your viewpoint (that it could look scummy, not that I am scum, obviously).

[DragonEater70]

How are Cook and I both probably scum given the likelihood of us belonging to the same listmod group. Both our roles deal with randomization and are of negative/mixed utility.

this beetlejuice feels like more of a scum defense than a town one. i cant put it into words yet idk how to explain it but it's a scummy-feeling mech defense

I agree wholeheartedly. I also felt it was weird that Katy came out of nowhere to post after I scumread him, but didn't say anything before that.

[DragonEater70]

It's pretty fair that people find me scummy though, I definitely made the conscious decision to not try to scumhunt this game given my role.

why would your role make you wanna avoid scumhunting?

The way I see it either I get miselim'd pretty fast, which is probably good because on average town was more truthful than scum when claiming roles, so it's not like town loses anything other than a warm body,
or I'm kept alive until endgame since I'm a terrible slot for a NK, at which point the game would probably be solved mechanically.

WTF is this reasoning?
Like sure you might be alive at end game and solve mechanically, but until endgame you want to vote out as much scum as possible.

[DragonEater70]

I can't freaking believe town would have this weird mindset.
Not even AniX has this mindset.

[DragonEater70]

idk i'll consolidate if it doesnt happen but my intuition tells me kkfc is likely a red flip. and if they're town then their role provides us a bit of info wrt sorting fakeclaims. if they're a scum tailor we should nip that in the bud before they can act N1.

I actually think KKFC acts as caught scum right now, and would encourage all the beautiful town players that don't want to vote out Meuh, Klick or Cook for whatever reason to vote here instead.

[DragonEater70]

Do you think revealing earlier is better? Probability of revealing a scum role if I'm eliminated today is 4/18, but it could be higher later. We would also lose a cop.

Is this directed at me? Because I did not imply you should be eliminated. I implied you should form reads.

[DragonEater70]

pagetop:
vote KKFC thanks

[DragonEater70]

AniX, how many players are currently supporting no lim except you?

[DragonEater70]

Is this directed at me? Because I did not imply you should be eliminated. I implied you should form reads.

vote KKFC thanks

Sorry I misphrased this. i did not imply that you should be eliminated DUE TO YOUR ROLE, which is what I thought you were saying.

[DragonEater70]

Not thought. You did in fact imply that I was wanting to eliminate you based on role.

Do you think revealing earlier is better

? Probability of revealing a scum role if I'm eliminated today is 4/18, but it could be higher later. We would also lose a cop.

Can you like, not quote me out of context?

[DragonEater70]

Not thought. You did in fact imply that I was wanting to eliminate you based on role.

Do you think revealing earlier is better?

Probability of revealing a scum role if I'm eliminated today is 4/18, but it could be higher later. We would also lose a cop.

Is this directed at me? Because I did not imply you should be eliminated. I implied you should form reads.

Can you like, not quote me out of context?

EBWOP

[DragonEater70]

I was talking to Skygazer.

Can you like, not quote me out of context?

That's why I was asking whether it was directed at me.

[DragonEater70]

on another note where tf is std

Super VLA AFAIk

[DragonEater70]

Glad it's been cleared up then!

I guess

[DragonEater70]

Sorry I misphrased this. i did not imply that you should be eliminated DUE TO YOUR ROLE, which is what I thought you were saying.

It's been pretty clear for a while now you want to eliminate me for cheeseposting. Since it's not my role and the only other thing you've mentioned this game is page 122 I'm going to assume that's why you want me eliminated, right?

In fact, I want you eliminated for your super weird response to being voted, and also for saying that you decided not to play D1 because you think the game will magically solve itself later.
Like it's not gonna solve itself if you don't play, dude.

[DragonEater70]

Like it's not gonna solve itself if you don't play, dude.

So you think I'm scum for these things? Why are you not worried about the other people who are "not playing the game"?

Gimmie a sec I will give you a whole rundown

[DragonEater70]

But basically I'm very annoyed with everyone who's "not playing"

[DragonEater70]

Meuh - not playing and i scumread her?
Klick - not playing but it seems they are not here? I was willing to vote their slot earlier and will vote it if it seems like they are intentionally avoiding playing
Political Clout - was playing earlier and tryharding, recent inactivity is NAI
DragonEater70 - playing
Theta Alpine - slightly concerned about her but at least she's doing some mech related thing
Ranger - was playing, recent inactivity is NAI
DkKoba - is playing
Save The Dragons - is VLA
AniX - I and her apparently have clashing opinions about what playing means. She's by no means townbinned but I'm waiting to see if she's actually gonna start mechsolving on Day 2 and/or present any other mech scumreads / mech townreads other than that I should be eliminated (btw, I will read your post in a bit, don't worry)
Skygazer - wasn't really playing and was getting lower and lower on my readlist, started playing and went up
Ircher - playing
Bingle - playing
Aureal - isn't palying and I scumread her now even though I'd townread her earlier
ofrhz - was playing, now isn't playing and went down in my readlist
Cook - isn't playing and I scumread her
camelCasedSnivy - playing
KatyKimFanClub - you

[DragonEater70]

So as you can see, I'm EXTREMELY worried about slots not playing

[DragonEater70]

However I do think this is a very silly argument we're having.
Like this D1 is pretty nightmarish, so I do get why some people tune out. I took a 48 hours break, myself.
I'm fine with an Aureal lim or a Cook lim. Also fine with you vigging someone or something. Though I don't think Aureal has enough recruits to vig anyone. Is that a scumslip?

[DragonEater70]

Cook - isn't playing and I scumread her

VOTE: Cook

VOTE: Cook

[DragonEater70]

Oh okay gotcha

[DragonEater70]

Cook - isn't playing and I scumread her

VOTE: Cook

VOTE: Cook

Recency bias much?? How is Aureal "actually playing"?

She isn't?

But I asked you multiple times to towncase Cook and got no good answer. If you want people to think she's town you gotta make a case.

[DragonEater70]

Also it's really weird you asked me that MOMENTS after I explicitly said that Aureal isn't playing and is ALSO in my scumpool for that reason.
Like you are attacking the wrong thing.

[DragonEater70]

koba rn heavily reminds me of kyoko kiri from WDM for some strange reason

I actually see where you're coming from.

My townread on the slot has weakened continuously, as their pushes feel alarmingly scum-agenda-driven rather than town disagreeing with the Cook-scum push.

Why is aureal town

Why is Cook town.

[DragonEater70]

koba rn heavily reminds me of kyoko kiri from WDM for some strange reason

I actually see where you're coming from.

My townread on the slot has weakened continuously, as their pushes feel alarmingly scum-agenda-driven rather than town disagreeing with the Cook-scum push.

Why is aureal town

Why is Cook town.

Because their posts are better than most people in this game including you [:

What posts? Can you link some?
Also what happened to DE obvtown?

[DragonEater70]

What's my agenda? To save cook? Is cook mafia? How?
You make a take but you're just saying things that dont consider context. I defend townreads to my dying breath so long as I am confident they will flip town.

I believe you but I just don't believe Cook's posts are good unless you can link me some good posts (which I will read because you are still pretty towny)

[DragonEater70]

Okay
UNVOTE: Cook

[DragonEater70]

Dude
Aureal is like my second or third biggest scumread

[DragonEater70]

What are you talking about

[DragonEater70]

Okay I think I f'd up big time this game

Like at some point during this Day 1 I have been put deep inside scum's pockets.

[DragonEater70]

Give me a bit to think about this and fogure out WHO is the scum that pocketed me

[DragonEater70]

Okay I honestly hate the timing of the deadline bc I don't actually have a lot of time today and tomorrow but I'll try to see if I can get my thoughts together and do some non-surface-level posting some ater time today.

[DragonEater70]

Dude
Aureal is like my second or third biggest scumread

This is news to me

Then you should pay more attention to what I am saying before you say I am sayong stupid things.

[DragonEater70]

Koba:

Spoiler:

Based on these pages (and also page 116 which I forgot to include), the town are:
Koba, Ranger, Skygazer, Bingle, CCS, Ircher
These people are null af:
AniX, Theta, PC, Ofrhz, Klick

And these are very probably scum

(but none are lockscum!!! I just want to be very clear about that and let Bingle know I agree with them):

Aureal

, Meuh, Cook, Katy

I still think Cook is the best wagon today but I promised Koba that I'll try to actually play mafia and not just vote Cook, so right now I will
VOTE: Katy

Meuh - not playing and i scumread her?
Klick - not playing but it seems they are not here? I was willing to vote their slot earlier and will vote it if it seems like they are intentionally avoiding playing
Political Clout - was playing earlier and tryharding, recent inactivity is NAI
DragonEater70 - playing
Theta Alpine - slightly concerned about her but at least she's doing some mech related thing
Ranger - was playing, recent inactivity is NAI
DkKoba - is playing
Save The Dragons - is VLA
AniX - I and her apparently have clashing opinions about what playing means. She's by no means townbinned but I'm waiting to see if she's actually gonna start mechsolving on Day 2 and/or present any other mech scumreads / mech townreads other than that I should be eliminated (btw, I will read your post in a bit, don't worry)
Skygazer - wasn't really playing and was getting lower and lower on my readlist, started playing and went up
Ircher - playing
Bingle - playing

Aureal - isn't palying and I scumread her now even though I'd townread her earlier

ofrhz - was playing, now isn't playing and went down in my readlist
Cook - isn't playing and I scumread her
camelCasedSnivy - playing
KatyKimFanClub - you

Pedit: wdym scum flipping as a buddy?

[DragonEater70]

reminder:
VOTE: Aureal

thirty days of deadlock can

not

be a mislim i swear to god i will venge you if you kill anyone but this or klick

and klick’s not happening

You vengful?

[DragonEater70]

AniX, how many players are currently supporting no lim except you?

Your arguments are always so weirdly blind to the ebb and flow of the game I rarely know if I should waste my time responding to them.

Well there goes my desire to read and respond to your case against me

But I'll do it anyway cause I promised to.

[DragonEater70]

Koba:

Spoiler:

Based on these pages (and also page 116 which I forgot to include), the town are:
Koba, Ranger, Skygazer, Bingle, CCS, Ircher
These people are null af:
AniX, Theta, PC, Ofrhz, Klick

And these are very probably scum

(but none are lockscum!!! I just want to be very clear about that and let Bingle know I agree with them):

Aureal

, Meuh, Cook, Katy

I still think Cook is the best wagon today but I promised Koba that I'll try to actually play mafia and not just vote Cook, so right now I will
VOTE: Katy

Meuh - not playing and i scumread her?
Klick - not playing but it seems they are not here? I was willing to vote their slot earlier and will vote it if it seems like they are intentionally avoiding playing
Political Clout - was playing earlier and tryharding, recent inactivity is NAI
DragonEater70 - playing
Theta Alpine - slightly concerned about her but at least she's doing some mech related thing
Ranger - was playing, recent inactivity is NAI
DkKoba - is playing
Save The Dragons - is VLA
AniX - I and her apparently have clashing opinions about what playing means. She's by no means townbinned but I'm waiting to see if she's actually gonna start mechsolving on Day 2 and/or present any other mech scumreads / mech townreads other than that I should be eliminated (btw, I will read your post in a bit, don't worry)
Skygazer - wasn't really playing and was getting lower and lower on my readlist, started playing and went up
Ircher - playing
Bingle - playing

Aureal - isn't palying and I scumread her now even though I'd townread her earlier

ofrhz - was playing, now isn't playing and went down in my readlist
Cook - isn't playing and I scumread her
camelCasedSnivy - playing
KatyKimFanClub - you

Pedit: wdym scum flipping as a buddy?

It's the logical claim I'd make if I was a scum role that had a fake flip, but also thts a really dumb scum role design

I am not tracking what you're saying

[DragonEater70]

Gladly. We have a list of every role in the game (multiple people have done much more through documenting of this so I will not recap them all again). Some of them are lies, assuredly, but the bulk of them are extremely likely to be true. They are all complex, weird roles that do all sorts of wild stuff. And then we have DragonEater, whose role is:

I am a cop, except I lose my cop ability the first time a townie player is eliminated, which kinda sucks and is the reason I didn't want to vote Koba but meh.

Forget a complex, weird role that does wild stuff, this is a role that is worse than bog standard cop. It is worse than even ONE-SHOT cop because at least that cop is guaranteed the one shot as long as they stay alive. This is simply not a role that matches ANYONE ELSE'S role in the game. Every single other role has common elements with another role and actually does something unusual. He denies it looks scummy NOW but he had something different to say in the moment:

Also would scum!me ever make a shitty claim like this? It is a horrible claim.

I'm not really buying "Yeah, my claim sucks and clearly implicates me...so much so that I must be innocent", especially when he stalled, and stalled, and stalled in revealing his role (I think he was the last one to claim? Or at least one of the few couple to) and then finally, realizing he couldn't think up a complex wacky role that he could believably sell as being pairable with others and finally, pressure on to claim, he threw out some nonsense and hoped it was so scummy it ceased being scummy in our eyes. And it is working! Instead of focusing on that, we are chasing our tales with Cook and Klick, which I still haven't heard a single actual argument for and, Aureal, who has the opposite problem to DragonEater where we know FOR A FACT their role has some recruit elements because more people have confirmed the recruitment ability than could possibly be evil team.

So the first paragraph is just patently false, because there are quite a few people I can name off the top of my head which have retty standard role design anyone could come up with (Universal backup was in a recent theme game, sensitive tracker is really meh levels of standard, and STD's role is a ripoff of an epicmafia role (Chef, IIRC). And honestly I think that's enough to say that "everyone but dragon has super crazy role so dragon is lying!!!!" is not true).

Second, I never said that I MUST be innocent. Just that my role freaking sucks, and that if I were scum then I think I could come up with something better. I mean I did come up with something better the last theme game I played and I think a few people actually bought my claim. @Ranger @KKFC if you'd like to chime in on that.

Also wtf you on about me being so scummy it ceased being scummy. The people who are townreading me are townreading me because of my personality, since they unlike you (and this is not said in an accusation, actually) do believe in Day 1 reads and not relying solely on claims to solve the game. Go ahead and ask them, if you don't believe me.

[DragonEater70]

AniX, how many players are currently supporting no lim except you?

Your arguments are always so weirdly blind to the ebb and flow of the game I rarely know if I should waste my time responding to them.

Well there goes my desire to read and respond to your case against me

But I'll do it anyway cause I promised to.

I wanna say you're one of the few slots including meuh and cook actually seeming to be game state aware lol even if we have major disagreements

Thanks

[DragonEater70]

Koba:

Spoiler:

Based on these pages (and also page 116 which I forgot to include), the town are:
Koba, Ranger, Skygazer, Bingle, CCS, Ircher
These people are null af:
AniX, Theta, PC, Ofrhz, Klick

And these are very probably scum

(but none are lockscum!!! I just want to be very clear about that and let Bingle know I agree with them):

Aureal

, Meuh, Cook, Katy

I still think Cook is the best wagon today but I promised Koba that I'll try to actually play mafia and not just vote Cook, so right now I will
VOTE: Katy

Meuh - not playing and i scumread her?
Klick - not playing but it seems they are not here? I was willing to vote their slot earlier and will vote it if it seems like they are intentionally avoiding playing
Political Clout - was playing earlier and tryharding, recent inactivity is NAI
DragonEater70 - playing
Theta Alpine - slightly concerned about her but at least she's doing some mech related thing
Ranger - was playing, recent inactivity is NAI
DkKoba - is playing
Save The Dragons - is VLA
AniX - I and her apparently have clashing opinions about what playing means. She's by no means townbinned but I'm waiting to see if she's actually gonna start mechsolving on Day 2 and/or present any other mech scumreads / mech townreads other than that I should be eliminated (btw, I will read your post in a bit, don't worry)
Skygazer - wasn't really playing and was getting lower and lower on my readlist, started playing and went up
Ircher - playing
Bingle - playing

Aureal - isn't palying and I scumread her now even though I'd townread her earlier

ofrhz - was playing, now isn't playing and went down in my readlist
Cook - isn't playing and I scumread her
camelCasedSnivy - playing
KatyKimFanClub - you

Pedit: wdym scum flipping as a buddy?

It's the logical claim I'd make if I was a scum role that had a fake flip, but also thts a really dumb scum role design

I am not tracking what you're saying

Cook is implying I might be a scum that flips as a buddy's role

Like as the role of one of your scum buddies?

[DragonEater70]

Oh okay I get it

[DragonEater70]

Fml my last post was like 47 hours ago. I chose a really bad time to get super busy irl.

[DragonEater70]

(A wallpost is incoming. And I might even do a short catchup afterward)

[DragonEater70]

So.
I wanna post my thoughts.
But my thoughts fucking suck.
Fine, I'll post them anyway and let's see how quickly I turn from scum's top townread to bottom read. Assuming that I'm actually right.

Basically, I feel like I'm fucking pocketed this game (I said this already two days ago but then I got busy irl and didn't continue elaborating). Now let me explain WHY I think I've been pocketed.

So first, I just read Aureal's 3408 (and this is the only one I read and I only read it accidentally due to preview mode). And I don't think this post comes from sucmreal (that's a portmanteau of Aureal and scum btw). It feels too desperate. So who's pushing this town wagon? Possibly town but probably scum. Will get to this later.

Second thing, at some point earlier I've read 3166 by Meuh. (Maybe this is a good time to mention that I am writing this in reverse chronological order for some really weird reason. I guess the more recent things are more relevant and go on top? And the earlier things are more in depth so it would be weird to put them earlier). So anyway I read that post and up until then I scumread Meuh. And while I read it I was actually shocked that I liked this post. But then I realized that it was

too

much to my liking and that it was possibly designed to pocket me. Especially because for some fkin weird reason I'm put there as the top townread when I only had 2 really NAI posts in that page, and also because Meuh was all like "yeah I'll do what you asked Dragon, but I actually have no freaking clue what's the purpose of it but I did it anyway" which doesn't sound very genuine. And this made me freaking realize that I've been quite gullible this game.

Third thing, and most importantly, I feel something is really off about the vibes of this thread (I also said this a few days ago and said I'll organize my thoughts and then didn't elaborate because I'm REALLY busy irl and can't think straight). Like I will refer you to another game I've played, Weird Dreams Mafia I. You don't have to read all game, just these two posts: 1, 2. In that game, the main discussion was dominated by obvtowns,

and it was felt

. Scum actually and factually had no presence, and the leading wagons at the end of D1 and D2 (both of which were cut short unfortunately) were scum. On the other hand, there are games like Demon Slayer and Amnesiac Mafia: The Movie (unfortunately I cannot link to specific posts here) where the game thread was dominated by scum (either due to hyperposting or just having very strong posts and thread presence). And in my opinion, and this is not something I can explain except by saying "every nerve of my body is screaming this" / "it's a gut feeling" / "it's just intuition", I just feel like this game thread has the same vibes. I.E., it feels like THIS GAME is also dominated by scum. And I have this foreboding feeling that we're going to miseliminate today, and that then on Day 2 we will also miseliminate and that scum would win with 0/1 scum eliminated. btw if I die tonight then this is pretty much confirmation of this feeling, but this doesn't imply a particular player is necessarily scum or not.

So, to the big question. Who do I think is scum?
Good fucking question. Let me start by explaining what made me townread the players who are pocketing!scum candidates, and then I'll go into why the may be scum.
Ranger - I townread her early because I just felt comfortable being pocketed by her, that's all. Later I think I townread her for good pushes, now I'm feeling slightly doubtful because the claim thing (the "crumbing" of their role) doesn't really make sense to me. Also I have this feeling that if they are scum they basically never get eliminated and they can chain lim several townies (which would be hypothetically Cook, then Aureal, then Koba or a compromise lim). However they acted in a very un-opportunistic manner so idk if they are really scum. AAAAAAAHHHHHH this is tough.
Koba - I townread them for their vibes, for agreeing with me regarding StD and AniX early on, and probably for more things (I forgot because it HAS been a freaking month). But I always had this feeling like they may just be a very good scum. I honestly don't think a lot of scum doing this thing of fervently defending their partner (Hypothetically, Cook) even when said partner is at like E-2 for

ages

. BUT I have not played successfully against powerwolfing before (and I think powerwolfing scum WOULD do that), and apparently (I have not checked Koba's past games at all) Koba is a good and experienced player who might be quite good at powerwolfing. Ranger, Bingle, StD and maybe Ofrhz/Meuh (the ones I think are old timers sort of), do you have any idea if Koba is good at powerwolfing?
Meuh - I think it's obvious why I was scumreading them, and I already explained why they pcoketed me, but I'm still having doubts on this slot.
Ircher - this is not a pocket but basically I lockscummed him early and now he managed to get above null in my tierlist of reads just because he explained his case against Cook and why he thought AniX was town. Now they were very good explanations but I am freaking paranoid so IDK.
Ofrhz - I super townread insta townlocked the slot for having reads extremely similar to mine and basically having a mindmeld, but then I noticed some reads which felt slightly off, and they give me the same vibe I got from TSQ in Team Mafia - basically a "town-siding wolf" who plays in a disassociated manner from the rest of the wolfpack and counters their arguments. Fuck my life why do I suspect every single person here. I'm waaaay too paranoid.

People I'm certain are town include:
Political Clout
CCS
Myself
Maybe Ofrhz even though I just mentioned them of being scummy (but only if we flip scum today. Don't question this. It's a gut/intuition thing)

People who are scummy but might be town:
A lot of other people tbh. fml, I signed up to have a nice whimsical role that is super weird and have chill dayplay, not to get a direct flight to PARANOIA TOWN, USA. I don't even live in the USA.

Also, fuck it. I'll just vote Cook and then vote Ranger (and NOT Ircher/Aureal like scum!Ranger and scum!Koba want us to believe) if Cook is town.

Pedit: maybe it's a good idea to catchup first before I vote.

[DragonEater70]

oh and another 72 hours are added to the deadline for Yimmy to catch up!!

Are you kidding me?
Why did I spend the last hour agonizing about voting a slot I feel might flip town and writing this fucking post if we get an extension.

[DragonEater70]

Also, hi Yimmy. You town here?

[DragonEater70]

Quoting random posts because I sincerely have got no clue where I left off reading part 1:

Ircher and aureal are 2 of the most obvious scum in the game right now but your ego wants it to be cook bc wahhh I cant be wrong I have to be right on this thing I pushed so long.

Cook and Meuh are 2 of the most obvious scum in the game right now, but your ego wants it to be Ircher(who is in his town meta, painfully so) or Aureal, because wahhh I can’t be wrong I have to be right on this thing I pushed so long.

tbh this is not TvS i'm 90% sure of that.
So either Ranger and Koba are both like the most expert powerwolves that existed or I'm really paranoid and they are town.

[DragonEater70]

@PC, CCS, please unvote.
I don't think voting Aureal is good here.

[DragonEater70]

I don't think Aureal and Cook feel much like SvS

Even if you think they are, you should probably want Cook limmed first? Aureal isn't even bothering to vote Cook. She's the less survivalistic one of the two

Okay Ofrhz is town again

[DragonEater70]

AniX, how many players are currently supporting no lim except you?

Your arguments are always so weirdly blind to the ebb and flow of the game I rarely know if I should waste my time responding to them.

Well there goes my desire to read and respond to your case against me

But I'll do it anyway cause I promised to.

I just mean that the question has no relevance to any argument or any position the town should or could take. It is literally "If no lim is theoretically good and people would theoretically support it, why is nobody specifically supporting it right now at this exact second"

No. I was saying that I don't think the "No Lim Movement" was really a movement and it certainly wouldn't have been enough of a force to "distract people from pressuring dragon".
Especially because the people it supposedly distracted are in fact not "distracted" from pressuring either Aureal or Cook.

[DragonEater70]

Reminding you I'm the only one with a presented worldview that includes multiple scenarios and not just a couple reads

I am not saying I haven't read it, I'm not saying I have, but I definitely do not remember this so would appreciate if you remind me what you are talking about.

Like I recall pretty distinctly that you've been consistently pushing Aureal and defending Cook which is actually part of why I'm townreading you (I just don't see wolves being this consistent with their pushes).

[DragonEater70]

I find it weird that you say that because normally you post your readlist every page even if there's only a slight change.

I need to connect the dots in my head sometimes.

I mentally had a shift in reads; I mentally thought nothing had changed enough to warrant a readslist; these contradict each other, yet I needed to have a line between them to see so; it was absent, so they existed separately despite the inconsistency.

Huh. And what exactly was the shift?
And more importantly, what connected the line for you?

[DragonEater70]

Reminding you I'm the only one with a presented worldview that includes multiple scenarios and not just a couple reads

I am not saying I haven't read it, I'm not saying I have, but I definitely do not remember this so would appreciate if you remind me what you are talking about.

Like I recall pretty distinctly that you've been consistently pushing Aureal and defending Cook which is actually part of why I'm townreading you (I just don't see wolves being this consistent with their pushes).

nah dont fucking accuse me of being a powerwolf if you arent even parsing what im saying or discount my good points on aureal on the basis of her shitty ate.

i go through this stupid song and dance nearly every town game with players like you, logically engaging has never worked, im not going to keep trying it when you can read my iso or actually yknow, not take shortcuts in reads.

Sorry to make you feel this way.
All I can say is. I sincerely townread you. But I have a very bad feeling on both leading wagons today and I don't know what to think. You have to realize I'm freaking uninformed town and I get paranoid easily. I try to fucking make sense of this mess but it is a mess and mostly no one seems to agree with me, which makes me even less confident of my reads.

[DragonEater70]

and also because Meuh was all like "yeah I'll do what you asked Dragon, but I actually have no freaking clue what's the purpose of it but I did it anyway" which doesn't sound very genuine.

I wanted to do it because it sounded enjoyable, could give me stronger reads and was an opportunity to collaborate with you (who I think is town)!
I did have a clue what the purpose of it was, it's when I did it that I ended up unenthused because I didn't get much out of it. This is unsurprising, because not only had I already read the posts (unlike you, who I think hadn't read them yet), but I've been here for less long. Those posts were already like 15% of the ones that had been made since I replaced in and I didn't have held over feelings from earlier in the day, so the exercise of only considering them just wasn't a major shakeup of my perspective. It mostly made me pay more attention to posts I had glanced over, but as it turns out, those posts I glanced over weren't posts I found super AI, so I didn't end up with much new. :/

Okay that makes sense, I definitely did not read those posts you are right so I guess how it would be less exciting if you've just read them.

[DragonEater70]

Okay do I just sheep Koba here despite my crippling paranoia?

[DragonEater70]

ok DE if you dont trust me, ill give you this, especially since my own role has value from being flipped: if we flip aureal, and they flip town, i will be killed next which will potentially out someone else or give some context for night actions if its an unclaimed role.

i still think theres explicitly a difference in how anix has approached their role vs how aureal has approached hers that is alignment indicative, that even though anix clearly doesn't care for social reads they have pushed their own reads in a way that is consistent with their explained thought process etc. while pushing their role stuff on the side.

Fair enough.

As I said I want to trust you so much but I'm just in internal agony right now. Logically Aureal is super scummy but I just don't see how scum!her doesn't realize that it's better for her survival to change strategy and that's why I can't bring myself to vote her.

[DragonEater70]

Like I don't even think it's WIFOM. What sane scum player would shittunnel a player that is on one other player's limpool, then go and STUBBORNLY refuse to change the topic/approach when they get HEAVILY pushed for talking about mech, not having reads, and tunneling town?

[DragonEater70]

AAAAAAh why are reads so hard this game.

Why can't it be like a newbie game where I have a pool of like 4 players who might be scum and the rest are town and that's it

Pedit: I get what you are saying. I would try to give more thoughts but tbh this game got a deadline extension so I will leave you all for now and will probably be super available on Friday.

[DragonEater70]

This pedit was at Koba's posts, there have been too many posts

[DragonEater70]

i have already seen a role that wins via player trust and lost to it after mistrusting it and im getting the same exact vibe here lmao

maybe it doesnt auto win! but it surely will put scum way ahead the more townies are in it im sure.

and yes i do believe a listmod would design a role that can win d1 if town is naive, but considering the insistence to survive d1 i feel that it requires the nightphase. you already have an incredibly modular role that anix has, that is more secret that is more in line with how a town role might be for something like that.

What game?

[DragonEater70]

can someone point me to the massclaim pretty please? i feel like understanding aureal's claim and meuh's claim is important right now

viewtopic.php?p=13888939#p13888939 is a summary made but ofrhz of Aureal's claim

Meuh claimed eternal universal backup (they switch roles every time someone dies, not just the first time)

[DragonEater70]

made by ofrhz*

[DragonEater70]

Spoiler: Amway summary

Aureal's Amway role:

1. Use a sales pitch to create a hood. Up to two neighborhoods a day can be created. (1623, 2303)
Specifically, the process to open a hood is:

• quote someone to target them
  
• write a sales pitch phrase in the post
  
• if they respond, a hood is created. (1881)

**note: the sales pitch does not have to be in the game thread. So scum can give each other Amway amongst themselves** (2519, 2524)

2. In the hood, the recruiter can bring the hooded person into the MLM and the recruitee would get a copy of all Amway abilities, including ability to hood and recruit people (Aureal - 1564)

3. Once recruited into Amway, original night actions can't be used unless you leave Amway, which costs the leaver's vote the next day. Day actions, passive attributes, and roles are otherwise retained. (1623)

4. People in Amway can continue to recruit after Aureal is dead, and dead Amway still count towards number of recruits (2382)

5. xyzzy will answer whether there's enough recruits to perform an action. The # of recruits is determined at the start of night (2535)

Abilities unlocked:

(an ability can be used once a night - Aureal 2872)

Recruit 1 to send a message
3 to neighborhood
6 to roleblock and open a neighborhood and autorecruit (same target)
10 to vig and recruit -

is this the same target

?

* Neighborhood creation/recruitment should fail if targeting another Amway (2838, 2845). This could be used to detect unknown Amway if scum secretly Amway themselves .

List of hoods and recruits:

1. Aureal hooded Anix (per 1564), who hasn't accepted recruitment
2. Aureal hooded KatyKimFanClub, who accepted recruitment (2230, rationale is in 2219)
3. KatyKimFanClub hooded Theta Alpine, who accepted recruitment (2261, 2316)
4. KatyKimFanClub hooded Ircher, who hasn't accepted recruitment (2279, 2835, 2925)
5. Theta Alpine tried to hood Skygazer, who accepted recruitment (2360, 2938)
6. Theta Alpine hooded Bingle, who accepted recruitment into Amway (but recruitment should fail due to Bingle's role) (2359, 2364)
7. Bingle pitched to DragonEater70 to demonstrate that he can't hood others (2538? or maybe 2536?)
8. Skygazer will recruit Ircher
9. Ircher will recruit Save the Dragons

* some of the linked posts should have recruitment phrases

Special interactions:

Bingle - can't recruit anyone else to Amway, can be neighborized, can accept recruitment to Amway but probably doesn't count as a recruit in terms of total recruit numbers (Aureal - 1564)
Theta Alpine - with the desperate modifier, she can use neighborhood ability like a cop check

This is aureals role

that's what happens when I don't read the most recent page

[DragonEater70]

wtf why are people voting Yimmy????

[DragonEater70]

viewtopic.php?p=13872390#p13872390 is the rest of the massclaim btw

[DragonEater70]

Please don't vote Yimmy. I see zero scumminess from them. What makes you scumread them?

[DragonEater70]

I think you and Meuh are actually tunneled.

And I say that because I predicted you might scumread the slot before I opened page 142 even though I TR'd Yimmy for 3521 on page 141.

[DragonEater70]

@DE you're not voting?

Apparently not
Still getting my thoughts together

[DragonEater70]

Please don't vote Yimmy. I see zero scumminess from them. What makes you scumread them?

See 2685

I also just finished a game with Random Nurse where I was scum with him, and they are a "do nothing" scum player when they're not getting pressured. His towngames showed more initiative in terms of game solving. He doesn't need to be pressured to show some game solving intent as town.

I have read it and even agreed with you back then, but I think it's odd that you go back to pushing Random Nurse's slot right after a towny replacement takes over the slot.

[DragonEater70]

Their viewpoint is similar to mine, also this sounds extremely similar to the town!yimmy I know.

[DragonEater70]

Okay that Cook TR is indeed a reach. Do you think they are scumbuddies?

[DragonEater70]

Aureal and Koba, please DO NOT read the contents of the spoiler below. It will just make you want to scream at me or strangle me to death.

Everyone else, and especially Political Clout and camelCasedSnivy, go ahead and read.

Spoiler:

First, CCS and PC, please read this. You are the two slots I'm 200% confident are town. I want to ask your advice / second opinion.
So normally I'm pretty confident in my reads, and this game I was also pretty confident about my reads until around when the Aureal vs Koba and Bingle thing started. Since that point, it feels like everyone is telling me that I'm crazy and that all my reads are incorrect (this might be a bit hyperbole but it does feel a bit like that).
I know that this is a social manipulation game and scum's main tools are social manipulation, so saying that I'm crazy or my reads are incorrect could be scum motivated. The thing is it's coming from Koba and Aureal, two people who at that time I was townreading (btw my reads on Aureal have fluctuated a lot, but my basic feeling is that her posts read scummy af but she just isn't scum, and rather a very very frustrated and tilted town). So I find it hard to believe that this is SvS theatre.
But anyway since that point that they started to attack my reads and get frustrated with me, I got into paranoia mode and now I don't know if my super duper TR of ofrhz is a good read or not. Or if my SR of Cook is good or not. Or if I should be townreading or scumreading Aureal.
Maybe I should just put these doubts aside, but I would like to hear your thoughts, guys. Do you think I'm pocketed? Do you think I'm just paranoid? Do you more or less agree with my reads? Or do you absolutely hate them?
Thanks

[DragonEater70]

Fuck this post sucks why did I post it

[DragonEater70]

Right now this is where I'm at:

Condifently town - CCS, PC, Yimmy, Skygazer
Probably town and I'm just paranoid about "powerwolfing" - Koba, Ranger, Ofrhz
I've townread them earlier but already forgotten why - StD, Bingle
I don't really care for these slots tbh - AniX, Theta, KKFC
Probably scum but I can't convince even myself of it: Ircher, Meuh, Aureal
Slot I really want to scumread but get bullied by Koba for scumreading: Cook

[DragonEater70]

Btw Koba, I saw that goddess role you linked, that sounds crazy.

I totally see why you'd suspect a similar role.

Also I feel the way the Yimmy coubter wagon happened is suspicious and was maybe done to defend Aureal? But I townread most people voting there...

Blegh, I can't think right now. I will probably figure this out later. I mean we have almost 4 full days to deadline.

[DragonEater70]

Because saying "let's go for a vanity vote" in this game state doesn't come from scum

Because I tr'd your posts between pages 116-123 (I don't remember what they were though atm)

Because I need to be confident SOMEONE is town or I'll go mad. And 2 people aren't enough.

Also, I don't think you made any posts that made me go "this could come from scum"

[DragonEater70]

Like I think you are only scum in a world where none of Aureal, Yimmy, Cook are scum

And tbh I don't want to live in that world because it would mean we're just limming town on Day 1 for lolz

So I'd rather ignore it rn.

[DragonEater70]

my apologies to the cook scumreaders who i called wrong but also pee pee poo poo u were also wrong on aureal (well most of you)

You know what, I'll take that half-apology.

VOTE: Aureal

I've no actual clue what's the up to date VC so I'll quickly say that I am back to townreading the following, on the condition that Aureal flips scum:

Bingle Koba Ranger ofrhz

I also still townread the people in the "confidently town" bin regardless of Aureal flip.

[DragonEater70]

If Aureal is scum it's gg ez cause both Ircher and Cook are also scum pretty much

[DragonEater70]

Wowzie this might be my first time hammering intentionally (assuming I hammered cause I saw some pplz unvoted so who actually knows).

[DragonEater70]

No that's a lie I did hammer in Newbie 2112, eons ago.

[DragonEater70]

Oh okay in that case I will join the cook wagon

I was looking at the vc that Bingle/Koba quoted

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Cook

[DragonEater70]

Wait nvm
VOTE: Aureal

[DragonEater70]

I'm too tired of Day 1 right now so I stopped caring

[DragonEater70]

koba claimed townie and they'd flip as a random scum

but nobody would be able to verify if they were actually... telling the truth or not?

I don't think so.

I'm also really confused on why scum would kill them since they claimed having utility when they die and they didn't even have a successful Day 1 push.

[DragonEater70]

I'm kinda upset I voted Aureal despite my town gutread on her.

Now I'm worried Cook might be town as well. Ugh.

[DragonEater70]

Anyway I think it's impossible to know what Koba's alignment was unless we kill a traitor.

[DragonEater70]

Because either way they would invest as townie

[DragonEater70]

Also just wanna say, during this eons-long night phase I played a marathon game with Meuh and now I'm townreading her because she isn't as scummy here as she was over there.

[DragonEater70]

Yuuuup! I'm now a town temporary death miller, Koba was indeed town

Okay great

[DragonEater70]

Vote DragonEater70

This vote is going to stay the whole day. His role STILL doesn't make any damn sense in the context of the game, he was extremely eager to make himself useless, and he is now either useless or evil team.

Town, you are welcome to join me on this vote and save me a vig kill. Otherwise, I'll be seeing him tonight.

Also STD isn't CLEARED but he didn't target anyone last night.

Can you like, not?

Ugh you're just shooting yourself in the foot if town.

[DragonEater70]

I think bingle could be traitor from the traitor role description

Damn I was also thinking overnight that Bingle might be godfather, then I forgot about it.

[DragonEater70]

Vote DragonEater70

This vote is going to stay the whole day. His role STILL doesn't make any damn sense in the context of the game, he was extremely eager to make himself useless, and he is now either useless or evil team.

He told us he lied about his role in the neighborhood, I'm not inclined to disclose how.

Famous pro-town behavior, lying about your role in a massclaim where everyone else is truthful.

Oh well you caught me I am scum and actually there are a a bunch of claimed millers / flipped godfathers and 0 cops, so all the claimed millers are also scum because "their roles don't make sense with the roles that have been claimed" (since DE70 is clearly a LIARRRRR!!!1111)

[DragonEater70]

I admit though that I 100% percent think there are many good (as in, town-motivated) reasons for myself, as town, to lie about my role and I absolutely don't see how saying my role before getting an investigation in helps anyone with anything.

[DragonEater70]

Btw

@Mod, V/LA next 3 days

[DragonEater70]

i mean
i might as well just say it i suppose since people already suspect
but i do believe bingle is the traitor based on a conversation at night
mainly bingle being rather insistent on wanting to be cleared by me

also you know

loudly proclaiming themselves as unrecruitable yesterday

I agree

VOTE: Bingle

[DragonEater70]

Okay I'm just gonna make a quick readlist based on flips and claims + some things that occured during the night. This readlist is mainly to help myself organize my thoughts but like, feel free to ask me questions about it, and agree/disagree etc.

An asterisk (*) after a player's name indicates the read is sort of "placeholder" and I need to re-evaluate it after doing VCA and ISO diving when I am back from V/LA.

{STD, Ranger}
{CCS*, Political Clout*, Theta}
{Ircher, ofrhz}
{AniX, Skygazer}
{Katy*, Yimmy*}
{Meuh*, Bingle, Cook*}

Katy and Yimmy I don't really have a read on that I can commit to right now (which is why they are asterisked), above them are all town and below them are all scum.

Meuh I think is towny by play but I have a gut scumread on her - this is the opposite of Aureal who was scummy by play but I had a town gutread on.

I thought CCS and PC were good TRs but rn I feel like I wanna re-evaluate my reads on them, because of something someone said regarding them. I'm more confident on CCS than on PC.

Cook is textbook scummy but Aureal's flip into Cook lim is also textbook chain-limming (in a scumsided sense) so I just want to verify my scumread on Cook before I vote there.

[DragonEater70]

wait why is std so high

Oh did I forget to mention I was in a hood with him and Ranger last night?
They're not mech cleared but based on some things that were said I'm 95% sure they are both town.

There's a single, large problem with the narrative of me being a traitor.

My role is confirmed.

Huh. Good point.

UNVOTE: Bingle

[DragonEater70]

Vote DragonEater70

This vote is going to stay the whole day. His role STILL doesn't make any damn sense in the context of the game, he was extremely eager to make himself useless, and he is now either useless or evil team.

Town, you are welcome to join me on this vote and save me a vig kill. Otherwise, I'll be seeing him tonight.

Also STD isn't CLEARED but he didn't target anyone last night.

Can you like, not?

Ugh you're just shooting yourself in the foot if town.

What's your real role then?

Be patient

[DragonEater70]

Did I mention I didn't manage to use it yet?

[DragonEater70]

how

I'm pretty sure they accepted Amway from someone (@whoever someone is, can you like confirm this happened?) but still couldn't neighborize me when they used a recruitment phrase.

[DragonEater70]

Do you think it's possible the all/most of scum are just the lurkers?

If both Aureal, theta and Cook are town I'd say it's pretty much required. Most of the people who are being active and solvey are pretty transparently town at this point.

Btw Bingle your thoughts on this now?

[DragonEater70]

You have until the end of the day. As I've been saying the entire time, this is a mech solve game and you better have an absolutely BEAUTIFUL reason to fucking with the town's mech solve (if you are town. Take your time with a second fakeclaim if you're scum)

I will say it right now:
I don't. Any and all claim-related shenanigans I do are due to my personal idiosyncrasies.

Since this answer will 100% not satisfy you, I'm just going to link 2 posts from a town game where I did claim related shenanigans due to my idiosyncrasies (this is obviously an alt).

[DragonEater70]

Will read rest of posts laterrrr

[DragonEater70]

well i only needed a yes to one of those per what bingle said so
they should not have been able to become an amway consultant per their claim which included that they could not be recruited

Wait what

The mod literally nade it clear that becoming amway doesn't modify your role but recruits you

Traitor can't be recruited but Bingle's claim is not having role modifications. Isn't that straight up confirmation from mod that Bingle is lying? Or did I mess up my logic here? Am I wrong about Bingle's claim?

[DragonEater70]

Yeah okay Bingle claimed unrecruitable

[DragonEater70]

Still could be claimed by a traitor, and claiming BP is also perfect for a traitor so scum doesn't waste night kill or accidentally NK the traitor.

[DragonEater70]

I'll just confirm the mechanics of it:

@Mod, assuming Koba really had the role they flipped with, they wouldn't be recruitable into amway, right?

[DragonEater70]

I've not had time to re-evaluate my Cook scumread, but the same gut feeling that told me not to vote Aureal for the majority of Day 1 is telling me that limming Cook is also a horrible idea.

I think the play here is to lim Bingle, will elaborate more later.

[DragonEater70]

I am back from V/LA but I am now at work, so the earliest you can expect me to post is in a few hours at my break, but more likely I will only post when I finish off for the day (in about 10 hours)

[DragonEater70]

Why have there been 3 pages since I V/LA'd? That's really sad.

[DragonEater70]

I'll just confirm the mechanics of it:

@Mod, assuming Koba really had the role they flipped with, they wouldn't be recruitable into amway, right?

Reading comprehension is tech. The traitor is specifically shown to not be recruitable to the main faction. Unless you’re arguing that amway is mechanically the “main faction” the traitor would have no interaction whatsoever with the amway role. Otoh, I quite literally provably did not receive the amway abilities.

Look, I understand that being able to read is more and more optional nowadays, but can we all at least pretend?

Hmmm good point.

Why is everybody voting you then?

[DragonEater70]

What's the modifier?

[DragonEater70]

I've not had time to re-evaluate my Cook scumread, but the same gut feeling that told me not to vote Aureal for the majority of Day 1 is telling me that limming Cook is also a horrible idea.

I think the play here is to lim Bingle, will elaborate more later.

Are you hinting here that you were still able to investigate someone (and that person is Bingle)?

Well actually I didn't investigate Bingle, I investigated Koba because I'm a dumb ass.

[DragonEater70]

Anyhow

I think AniX is gonna vig me either way by the looks of it so I might as well not claim just for the lolz (even though I did claim night action)

And AniX, if you think that makes me scum, that's honestly your problem for having such a narrow outlook on things and not being able to question "wait, is this thing which I find annoying actually likely to come from scum, or would it be incredibly unlikely for scum to do because it makes the player a huge target? What other evidence exists for him being scum? Hmmm, maybe he's just being annoying rather than scummy"

[DragonEater70]

Well actually I didn't investigate Bingle, I investigated Koba because I'm a dumb ass.

how were you still able to investigate?

Cause I lied about my role as AniX so cleverly deduced.

[DragonEater70]

to future wagoners of bingle, bingle will be hammered at 7 votes, not 8. e-2 is e-1.

Oh I see now

[DragonEater70]

i do not know of anyone else who could be the traitor besides bingle is the thing

Koba could be, as well as anyone whose role cannot be confirmed.

Which is...an alarmingly large portion of the playerlist. Objectively including myself.

Yep

I think there's a non zero probability of Koba being the traitor.

[DragonEater70]

Since he did investigate as town

[DragonEater70]

They*

[DragonEater70]

Ultimately your choice though. Unless this day quickends in the next 37 hours (the day needs to last 72 hours for my vigshot to activate), I have satisfied every other necessary component to vigshot you. Either you start being honest with the town about your role or I'll just have the mod be honest about what your role was.

we have death millers already, what makes you think de70's role will be real too?

Claim your night action?

targeted bingle, he's hated now

uh

you did claim you could only give targeting-related negative utility i thought
stuff like loyal or things like that which limit who you can target
or stuff like weak

Wait if that's true could they make AniX disloyal vig? That would be nice.

[DragonEater70]

sheeping ranger

Fair choice

[DragonEater70]

Didn't binge claim unchangeable? Shouldn't he be unaffected by the hated

Whoops it me

Wha?

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Jingle

I will unvote at E-1.

If they get to E-1 and then get hammered, the hammerer is scum.

[DragonEater70]

Actually are we dumb or what.

@Mod - if a player has a hated modifier, is that announced publicly or not?

[DragonEater70]

[/uv]

[DragonEater70]

UNVOTE:

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: bingle


UNVOTE:


Woooo I’m confirmed to still be the same role we already confirmed me to be. It’s MAGICAL!

Note, this doesn’t confirm cook tried to make me hated.

Cool

Btw I saw the post about kodak moment before this one and I started TR'ing you based on that but I think you're pretty mich conftown now?

Anyhoww

Back to scum hunting

Umm, I think I should go and re-evaluate all the people I asterisked? That sounds like a good idea for me to do.

[DragonEater70]

Well that's something. You massclaimed Day 2?

Day1 because Ranger and AniX are slightly crazy

[DragonEater70]

Can you catch up me for a bit?

Day 1 Aureal claimed her role which is potentially pretty strong but not game breaking, got mad that no one was working with her on breaking the game and got voted off even though everyone thought she was townier than Cook.

Also on Day 1 Ranger had been pretty usual Ranger and has locked scum on Cook.

A bunch of people SR'd Drew, then the slot got double replaced and now it's not as scumread I think?

Also Bingle claimed unchangeable bulletproof town and is now confirmed to be unchangeable (but this happened on Day 2).

Day 2 Koba flipped traitor but has claimed death miller so probably someone else is the traitor, but it's definitely not Bingle.

Also AniX wants to vig me for fake claiming as town.

[DragonEater70]

Did anyone claim Ninja by any way?

Don't think so

[DragonEater70]

STD whom you targeted doesn't have a night action though

[DragonEater70]

wait ranger didnt you target theta

shouldnt someone be treevivd

Ranger claimed no night action in tha hood

[DragonEater70]

AniX I forgot to ask, did you track anyone?

[DragonEater70]

Oh wit did I mix AniX and PC?

[DragonEater70]

Wait*

[DragonEater70]

I know that someone with Ninja role acted N1.

Yet for some reason my previous slot didn't act N1 at all. My modifier is passive, yea.

How do you know that? Can you expain the exact roe you have and the exact report you got?

[DragonEater70]

Vote DragonEater70

This vote is going to stay the whole day. His role STILL doesn't make any damn sense in the context of the game, he was extremely eager to make himself useless, and he is now either useless or evil team.

Town, you are welcome to join me on this vote and save me a vig kill. Otherwise, I'll be seeing him tonight.

Also STD isn't CLEARED but he didn't target anyone last night.

Yes I did lol

[DragonEater70]

Ohhhh

So that's pretty different than what most people here assumed sensitive meant. Lol.

[DragonEater70]

Yes, the narrow outlook of thinking someone who lies to town and then basically says "I am going to engage in anti-town action just to troll" might not be

pro-town

.

That's where your confusion comes from. I didn't say anything about my actions being pro town, I said that my alignment is town. Town-aligned players can and WILL make anti-town plays and if you can't accept that then you will have a very hard time not deathtunneling townies every game.

[DragonEater70]

business card

SCUMREAD? GIVE US A CALL!

55-TOWNY

STOP

GETTING VOTED!

STOP

GETTING VIGGED!

START

ACTING LIKE YOU'RE TOWN!

THE BEST WAY TO SOLVE THE GAME IS TO

HELP SOLVE THE GAME

POST YOUR READS! CLAIM YOUR ROLE!

HUNT THE SCUMTEAM!

CALL US NOW FOR A FREE CONSULATION

COOK MAFIASCUM, ATTORNEY AT LAW

Bah I'll do that tomorrow

[DragonEater70]

Why did you investigate Koba N1? Did you just think his claim was scummy?

I thought if Koba was conftown then it would be pretty powerful for town, and on the off chance they were actually scum it would be a nice surprise for town.

[DragonEater70]

I figured your role claim was fake. I also agree that it's not that scummy to lie considering how (at least from my point of view) it was pretty transparent your roleclaim wasn't truthful.

Yeah I basically said that I was gonna fake claim, didn't I?

[DragonEater70]

Oh yeah

That too

[DragonEater70]

Yes, the narrow outlook of thinking someone who lies to town and then basically says "I am going to engage in anti-town action just to troll" might not be

pro-town

.

That's where your confusion comes from. I didn't say anything about my actions being pro town, I said that my alignment is town. Town-aligned players can and WILL make anti-town plays and if you can't accept that then you will have a very hard time not deathtunneling townies every game.

Yeah, but you know who also makes anti-town plays? People with anti-town roles. If you can't accept that acting in an anti-town way is going to get you limmed for being anti-town, you will have a very hard time surviving every game.

I do know that, and I'm trying to act in a pro-town way. I do understand why you'd consider what I am doing as anti-town but FMPOV it's pro-town.

Also about not buying "I sometimes lie in massclaim", idk what to tell you because if you check literally every completed game where I wasn't a VT you'll see that I ALWAYS do weird stuff when it's time to claim. I don't understand how you can "not buy it".

[DragonEater70]

Anyway

Cook said we should solve and I agree

[DragonEater70]

Time for read re-evaluation!

[DragonEater70]

business card

SCUMREAD? GIVE US A CALL!

55-TOWNY

STOP

GETTING VOTED!

STOP

GETTING VIGGED!

START

ACTING LIKE YOU'RE TOWN!

THE BEST WAY TO SOLVE THE GAME IS TO

HELP SOLVE THE GAME

POST YOUR READS! CLAIM YOUR ROLE!

HUNT THE SCUMTEAM!

CALL US NOW FOR A FREE CONSULATION

COOK MAFIASCUM, ATTORNEY AT LAW

Well honestly I don't actually think scum!Cook makes this kind of post tbh, and I honestly want to sheep Koba on Cook being town.

Befire I make a judgement let's just see a few other of Cook's posts:

EBWODP

What are you basing this on?

vibes

also the two of them can’t and don’t SR each other, along with koba tunneling drew after he criticized ranger

if they are scum they are scum together. if they are town they are town together.

I like this take very much

>be me, political clout
>replaces into 52-page game
>immediately CC's the townleader
>gets townread by the other townleader
>refuses to elaborate

Nice meme

I give up. Cook ur gonna have to fight this out yourself bc it's not helpful that I'm trying to defend u while you're basically doing nothing atp

Post solving content like giving us a PoE or a town core or any sort of reads, bc the more you play like this the more it feels like you are intentionally anti spewing basically.


I'd rather have your slot be around for d2 and flip in a different order but your flip atp forces a lot of povs to change regardless of alignment so it isnt in my list of "horrible info townread lims"

yeah you got it

DkKoba

- has not dropped off in content, and i don't want to lim this while there's good potential for scum to hunt

DragonEater70

- your plan is good and makes solid sense i'm on board with it

Ircher

- vibes but also you are like posting content and shit

AniX

- honestly your role is probably legit and while it's not exactly AI i guess i don't think anyone would give a vigkill power to scum, plus if you're faking it you're doing it really well. so. yippee anix. also i may be swayed by hearing anix talk during the townhall.

Meuh, Delta, Drew

- i do not at all see the scumcase on drew and neither should you

Political Clout

- how the hell did you end up here

Bingle

- meh i don't know what to think on bingle. you post a lot but you also have weird opinions.

Aureal

- i still don't trust this amway stuff but even if you're scum it seems like there are other people who'll just take over for you. so. yippee.

camelCasedSnivy

- hadn't contributed anything earlygame and i don't recall seeing anything i liked more recently. could just be me idk

Theta Alpine

- someone had to have put you and ranger in the same bucket with me, right? there's no way that you'd just be "the role that can do a pointless action to confirm yourself" right? but whatever

Ranger

- as soon as you find something productive to do with your time you can go back to townlean, but seriously you say you have a fakeclaim, you decide you need to go last for a role that would do diddly squat to change claims for anyone, and just kept going. (next you'll say "haha, die, scum" and vote me again.)

KatyKimFanClub

- dropped back as of late

Skygazer

- dropped back.

Save The Dragons

- disappointment of a slot.

ofrhz, Alisae

- dropped back but you were also towny before??

Klick, Random Nurse

- i'm seeing the case tbh

People I Want Axed

Klick

Aureal

if this amway stuff still doesn't turn out

Koba

if Ranger is somehow legit

and

Alpine is true

ofrhz

because lurk

these buckets are pretty much unsorted.

i mostly think that lurkers should be kicked out so that we have more info

also so that people stop replacing out of slots lmao

I kinda feel like this is somewhat reasonable but also meh. Don't think it's scummy. I agree that it's really Annoying Ranger is just tunneling on Cook and not hunting scum elsewhere. Would probably be more annoying from Cook's viewpoint.

How is it a clear on Meuh? Meuh could claim whatever she wants, couldn't she?

no? how?

Because words.. are just words? There's not currently anyone vouching for what Meuh claims, so I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion she is cleared here.

my townread on koba

But if I’m scum I can know Koba is town and just claim it
I would actually need to, because if I didn’t and Koba then got confirmed as town, I would literally be outed as scum

i don't get what you're saying?

Really??? I don't believe you don't understand it, it's very simple. If Meuh claims death miller and it turns out Koba wasn't a death miller, then Meuh is confscum

I am town though…

I guarantee you're not.

what would you wager on that?

My life.

If Meuh flipped town I'd eat a death gladly.

Same for you.

...?

wdym by that last one

This sounds sincere for some reason, so that's like half a town point



Um, overall verdict: idk. Nullish? Scummish? Townish? I'd say nullish/townish but still part of PoE, though not the first person I would like to vote for today.

If I squint hard and say "I believe Koba, Koba your reads are divine" then she's pretty towny though.

Yeah let me have a look at some other people and then I'll probably go back to Cook since I'm not really happy with my read.

[DragonEater70]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

VOTE: ranger

I'm miller.

VOTE: anix

fos theta.

I retract

VOTE: camelcasesnivy

hos anix
fos theta
igmeo drdrew

town: PC
town: dkkoba
town: ircher
town: cook

i would support just wagoning any player that does not claim in their next post if they have not claimed yet

this is my next post.

Baker is the full name

and yeah half the game so far has been massclaim so thats whats been in my head

except for anix i did kinda have a scumread before this

there are no modifiers on it not even alignment modifiers?

My role is town sensitive tracker.

You are on balance probably mafia.

VOTE: camelcasesnivy

"on balance"

pc can you read the setup description

the balance of scales weighted toward good and evil dunn dunn dunn.

I know that someone with Ninja role acted N1.

Yet for some reason my previous slot didn't act N1 at all. My modifier is passive, yea.

How do you know that? Can you expain the exact roe you have and the exact report you got?

My track has sensitivity modifier (yet it's passive for some reason)


To explain it simple, if role which can make my investigation inaccurate acted at night at all, i learn about it. Ninja, Bus Drivers and other redirecting trash included.

For N1 i got report that Ninja acted. I don't really know more.

Honestly this is still locktown and I don't think Enchant randomly comes up with a different claim as scum.

[DragonEater70]

Roleclaim: I am a miller.

not this shit again

The problem with lying so consistently is when I actually tell the truth, nobody believes me.

The price I pay for a good troll.

do you also by chance happen to play checkers every night in order to activate your miller ability

Holy shit how did I miss this, this is GOLD

ok then cook

im not sure about anix i just don't think they're scum

dkkoba could be scum but prolly not

ranger is fine

and idk about literally anyone

im not sure why anix is being scumread can some1 explain

AniX is very obvtown, so DK is scumreading them for superficial posting because DK is jealous that someone else is being level 0 with their reads and yet is town.

how is anix obvtown either

std might be right about anixs posts being better than i thought but I'm too lazy to analyze rn

ircher better unvote me or I'm gonna do a 360 no scope and hit him with a fucking loaf of bread

anix was winning vs koba and std stepped in

Was AniX winning?

i think so

like lim them if they dont comply

Yeah but do you know if they are lying about it?

they have to eat the baked goods by posting it in here with bold

ugh i have 0 idea whats going on anymore and im kinda busy for a while but at a glance koba v aureal is SvT

Who's the S?

thats the neat part, i have 0 fucking clue

both of them are fine flips though if we want to vote in that pool

was the RN slot cursed to be the most inactive slot possible

camel why is cook mafia

originally thought she was town but recently i dont like her scumhunting, a hint of opportunistic

her role is pretty ass too which was the initial motivation

however not only is Klicks role even more scummier but i havent gotten anything so klick > cook

i have a townread on std just because his role doesnt make sense as scum but other than that he hasnt done much

So, no reason I’m asking this at all, like I definitely don’t have an anti cult power, but is there any chance there’s a cult this game? Asking for someone who definitely isn’t unrecruitable.

traitor pm specified you cant be recruited, this seems like a pretty big soft

Honestly not sure why I decided CCS was locktown earlier, but all these posts give an uninformed/town vibe and honestly not sure they've done anything scummy so CCS is at medium-high tier of towniness.

[DragonEater70]

Also I believe their claim since they did crumb it and I think it's a towny role

[DragonEater70]

Doctor Drew - Eternal UB: Changes to the last town player to die
Random Nurse - Non-Consec Enforcer which basically makes a player Ascetic for the night
Political Clout - Sensitive Tracker which I forgot what Sensitive does
DragonEater70 - Cop that doesn't work after a Town player dies
Theta Alpine - Desperate Treevivor Doomer which makes dead people who investigate opposite to theta treestumped, must use a day after the death
Ranger - Disables modifiers and passive abilities for a day/night cycle and becomes a miller when used
DkKoba - Death Miller which flips as random scum role
Save The Dragons - Hotelier neighborizes 2 people for one night
AniX - JOAT(vig for full day tunnel, delay for not voting at all, track for voting 5 people for one day)
Skygazer - Compulsive Loan Shark, gives votes to players in exchange for being able to act for them next night
Ircher - Neighborizer that loses their vote next day
Bingle - Unable to be changed, may be bp or ascetic each night
Aureal - Pyramid scheme type shit I have 0 fucking clue
Alisae - Arsonist with one ignition and up to 2 doused players
Cook - Modifier which gives a neg util modifier to someone each night
camelCasedSnivy - Baker which gives baked goods 3-shot can be publically eaten to roleblock the next night and may also be passed
KatyKimFanClub - Revealer which reveals a random player's role on death

did i get it right

Also @Enchant here are le claims

[DragonEater70]

Okay you know what

Maybe I should stop second guessing my reads and thinking that the towniest players are the scum and the scummiest players are town, and start playing this like a normal game of mafia.

[DragonEater70]

I'm starting work in 2 minutes, but a proper readlist is coming later on today

[DragonEater70]

Ircher has died and was a mafia stoner.

player name

*#420blazeit6969xDxDstonedtothebone*

you are a

mafia stoner

! you win once no members of opposing factions are alive, or when nothing can prevent this.

you have three joints. as long as you have joints, at day you may pick another player to have a smoke sesh with that night by PMing the mod. that night you will both have a PT to smoke weed in together. the next day you will both be so stoned that you will be unable to vote anyone for the duration of the day. however if it is Lylo/Mylo the weed will not be strong enough and nobody will get baked

the other members of the mafia faction are PLAYER NAME, PLAYER NAME, and PLAYER NAME. you can privately communicate with them here:

as long as you are alive, during the day, you can vote and post in the game thread.

the game is over! the town has won! Amway for life!

Oh wow

I will never again let anyone dissuade me from gut reads. Can't believe my Day 1 biggest scumread for the first half of Day 1 was scum.

[DragonEater70]

It seems a little unfair that as a list mod I was allowed to submit roles for this game and also play in it

You were?

[DragonEater70]

oh i was right about ircher and they were lolbussing d1. interesting

I thought ircher was so scummy but the fact they just kept bussing basically cleared them in my eyes for no reason lol.

[DragonEater70]

i started getting concerned there for a bit and worked to build associatives on meuh's slot so it would at least go down with me

Smart

[DragonEater70]

Anyway

My reads were not the best this game, sorry.

[DragonEater70]

Meuh just know I wasn't scumreading you after that marathon game, your play was so different.

[DragonEater70]

Lol ok

[DragonEater70]

Could you reveal your roles specifically?

[DragonEater70]

I can now reveal I fired implosion for not making my role more powerful, having psychically intuited he made it.

I'm happy to release them so here was my PM to xyzzy with my roles (scum one was the only one that didn't get chosen iirc?):

Spoiler:

Might've uh.... overdone one of them.

player name

Congratulations! you are a

town conditional jack-of-all-trades

! you win once no members of opposing factions are alive, or when nothing can prevent this.

You have several one-shot abilities. Each ability can only be used if a particular condition was met in the previous game day.

• Delayer: target a player. Any actions they take that night will instead resolve the following night. You may only use this if, during the previous game day, you did not make any votes and did not ever acknowledge that you did not make any votes (up to mod discretion).
  
• Tracker: target a player to learn who they targeted during the night. You may only use this if you made at least five votes during the previous game day, all on different players, and each such vote was active for at least 24 consecutive hours. You must target one of those players.
  
• Vigilante: target a player to kill them. You may only use this if you voted for a player in your first post of the preceding game day (which must have occurred within 24 hours of the day beginning), your vote remained on them for the entire day, and the day lasted for at least 72 hours. You may only target that player.

as long as you are alive, during the day, you can vote and post in the game thread.

player name

You are a

town Amway consultant

! you win once no members of opposing factions are alive, or when nothing can prevent this.

You have the following abilities.

Recruitment drive:

during the day, you may quote a post (or part of a post) that someone else made, and respond with one of the following lines (without quotes):

"Have you heard about this new opportunity to make extra income?"
"I have something that could really help improve your finances."
"Do you want to learn about a secret to financial freedom?"
"I have a solution that could change your life."
"Have you ever thought about owning your own business?"
"I have a way for you to take control of your financial future."
"Do you want to secure a better future for you and your family?"
"I have a product that has helped so many people achieve their goals."
"Are you interested in learning about a unique investment opportunity?"
"I have something that could help you achieve financial independence."

If they acknowledge you after this in any way (either by commenting on what you said, quoting it, or mentioning your name in any capacity), and they are not already an Amway consultant, you will automatically create a neighborhood with them. In this neighborhood, you can offer them the ability to become an Amway consultant. If they accept, they will gain a copy of all of your abilities. The neighborhood will stay open even if they reject the offer, and if the offer has been made, they can choose to accept it at any time. This neighborhood will last until either one of you uses the

sell out and cut your losses

ability, or until they accept an offer to be an Amway consultant from someone else (in the event that multiple people have offered them). You may create up to 2 neighborhoods each game day.

Financial strain:

you may not use any abilities at night other than

sell out and cut your losses

, any abilities granted to you by

passive income

, and the factional kill (if relevant).

Sell out and cut your losses:

during the night, you may use this ability to leave Amway. If you do, you will lose all related abilities. If you use this, then you may not use any other abilities during that night, and you will lose your vote for the following day. Additionally, any Amway-related abilities targeting you will fail for the rest of the game.

Passive income:

for each person that you have recruited directly or indirectly (i.e., by having a chain of recruiters from you to them), you get 1 passive income. This includes players that have died, but not players that have used

sell out and cut your losses

. If you have enough passive income, you may use one of the following abilities at night:

If you have at least 1 passive income, you may target a player to send them a message. The message must include the word "Amway" somewhere in it.

If you have at least 3 passive income, you may target a player to create a neighborhood with them. If they are not already an Amway consultant, you may offer them the option to become one normally. If they are already an Amway consultant, this ability will fail.

If you have at least 6 passive income, you may target a player to roleblock them. Additionally, if they are not an Amway consultant, you will automatically open a neighborhood with them and recruit them as an Amway consultant.

If you have at least 10 passive income, you may target a player to kill them. If they were not an Amway consultant, you will also recruit them (and permanently earn passive income from them).

---

As long as you are alive, during the day, you can vote and post in the game thread.

Hello! You are a

town temporary death miller.

You win once no members of opposing factions are alive, or when nothing can prevent this.

If you die, you will flip as a random currently-living mafia member's role. When that mafia member dies, your flip will be corrected.

As long as you are alive, during the day, you can vote and post in the game thread.

Hello! You are a

mafia rolethief!

You win once no members of opposing factions are alive, or when nothing can prevent this.

Once during the day, you may target a player. You may only target a player while voting for them, and you may not target the same player twice over the course of the game. If you target a member of the mafia, nothing will happen.

That night, you will be told one randomly chosen active ability that that player can use at night. You can use that ability, and if they attempt to use that ability that night, it will fail. If they do not have any night actions, you will be told as much, but you will not have any ability to use.

the other members of the mafia faction are PLAYER NAME, PLAYER NAME, and PLAYER NAME. you can privately communicate with them here:

As long as you are alive, during the day, you can vote and post in the game thread.

For the rolethief it's up to your discretion what "a randomly chosen active ability" means if it's ambiguous for a role someone else submits; for these ones, for the JoAT, it'd get an ability but probably not be able to use it (unless it happened to fulfill the corresponding post restriction the previous day). For the Amway consultant, it'd randomly get either sell out and cut your losses (which would do almost nothing, but would give them immunity to amway) or one of the passive income abilities (which would do nothing because they wouldn't have passive income). They would get the full text of just that ability. If they targeted the death miller they'd be told "PLAYER doesn't have any night actions."

It brings me great joy that the amway role wound up proliferating. Writing that role pm was kind of a fever dream of a moment.

Wow that mafia role thief would be kinda cool to have in the game.

[DragonEater70]

i'm putting amway in gim

That's a fantastic idea tbh