Mafia of Revelations ~ Game Over!

[Morning Tweet]

hi pork, Auro, farside, and ABR ♥

hiii everybody! ty for the invitation!

VOTE: Kmd

[Morning Tweet]

MT you wanna make an alliance with me

(・ω・) okii

hey wait!

but Hoopla is extremely cute!!!

[Morning Tweet]

what should we call our alliance?

something cute preferably. and we should let hoopla and puppy in the alliance too (>ω<)

pedit: Let's not be rivals, though!!

[Morning Tweet]

Oh yeah? We're just gonna let anyone in our alliance with no screening?

How about we call our alliance The Welcome Center?

Yes!! --wait. is that a jab at my overwillingness to ally?

Morning Tweet and I have formed an alliance, Albert and Morning Tweet have formed a separate alliance, trilateral negotiations underway to consolidate our two empires

oh okay you have a point. Relations are going to become complicated quickly. i still extend an open team invitation to all cute players and will make it my first order of business to unite our many alliances

[Morning Tweet]

oh okay you have a point. Relations are going to become complicated quickly. i still extend an open team invitation to all cute players and will make it my first order of business to unite our many alliances

(・ω・；)

Okay. i accept.

i am now independently allied with Albert, Puppy, and farside. i don't know if Hoopla has accepted yet but the offer is there. now i just need to get them all to play nice together and we'll win easily. If by winning i mean increasing the average amount of cuteness present within the game, anyway

pedit: SsSHHshHHH

[Morning Tweet]

oh okay you have a point. Relations are going to become complicated quickly. i still extend an open team invitation to all cute players and will make it my first order of business to unite our many alliances

(・ω・；)

Okay. i accept.

i am now independently allied with Albert, Puppy, and farside. i don't know if Hoopla has accepted yet but the offer is there. now i just need to get them all to play nice together and we'll win easily. If by winning i mean increasing the average amount of cuteness present within the game, anyway

pedit: SsSHHshHHH

[Morning Tweet]

oops i didn't mean to spam farside's picture all over the thread. i suppose it works out though in the grand scheme of things

I'm never scum. This is well known.

weren't you scum like a day ago in noughts and crosses? and

gasp

you're voting hoopla! you're treading on thin ice here!!

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: Blair

rararararara

[Morning Tweet]

ABR and Agar and MT are scum; the ABR-MT alliance should be called the half-scumteam alliance.
Blair is town. I kneejerked Baltar as town but he is probably scum too.
Everyone else is town enough so I think we win now.
Well, assuming 13-4.
VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

(>‿>)

[Morning Tweet]

oops i didn't mean to spam farside's picture all over the thread. i suppose it works out though in the grand scheme of things

I'm never scum. This is well known.

weren't you scum like a day ago in noughts and crosses? and

gasp

you're voting hoopla! you're treading on thin ice here!!

I think you will find upon review of the game in question that I demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that Maxwell and T-Bone were scum in Noughts and Crosses and promptly surrendered in abject terror of my scumhunting prowess.

i was really impressed by you in that game, i even want to believe that it was them. it seemed kind of unfortunate you were forced to play around the board mechanic, i felt like you'd have won that if it weren't for how the board was set up which basically locked you into getting max lynched or kinda just losing

[Morning Tweet]

ABR's ISO reads like statement of fact -> alliance a buddy -> highly impersonal accusation. Scum like doing all of these things.
Statements of fact feel safe and impersonal accusations feel safe and scum want to feel safe.
Alliancing / early accusations are common motions; scum usually go through common motions rather than exploring.

Scum have trouble evenly mixing interactions with other scum to interactions with town.
Players chatted up or voted by scum at dawn on the first day are therefore more likely to be scum than anyone else.
This applies to Baltar who also has an awkward are-you-scum-welcome, MT with content-free cutification and Agar who did 'vote -> briefly talk to buddy about nothing -> leave for a while.'
I don't like MT's reaction to being caught either.

Auro showed up with a purely distracting composed statement of 'fact' as well, then stuck to it instead of doing anything useful.
Will review a couple of their other games at some point to see if they are a refuge-type.

caught?! Caught doing what? (・・；) the cute police are already onto us..

I rolled my eyes because i interpreted you as being less than fully serious. I think I disagree most with your read of Auro -- i don't think he'd be any more likely to mess around as scum, it could even be the other way around for all I know where he'd try harder to look good as scum. at the very least it's wrong to scumpool him for it

i can follow your thought process in the first paragraph, but scumblocing every player in the game who has a non content-filled post might not be the most accurate conclusion. I usually throw out a huge chunk of RVS actually cause i've observed both town and scum trying to force reads early, and both town and scum just playing around early.

[Morning Tweet]

Alliancing

/ early accusations are common motions; scum usually go through common motions rather than exploring.

Hoopla I'll unvote u if u form an alliance with me

Morning Tweet and I have formed an alliance, Albert and Morning Tweet have formed a separate alliance, trilateral negotiations underway to consolidate our two empires

So, Mr Llama, why is CantLynchAPuppy not interesting enough for a mention?

Auro showed up with a purely distracting composed statement of 'fact' as well, then stuck to it instead of doing anything useful.
Will review a couple of their other games at some point to see if they are a refuge-type.

It was a

reaction test

... I swear!!

The CLAP posts are more natural.
Once upon a time that might have been townish, but people learned to fake insufferable long ago, and are particularly likely to at the beginning.

I am iffy on the rules around role-PM discussions but 'town for bothering to go there' seems about right. There are alternative explanations but they're worse.

wh-what?! You didn't include Puppy in your massive scumpool because he's more

natural

?! Did you have that in your head all along or did you just come up with that as justifcation? (¬ω¬) i was expecting you to say you forgot him or something

i agree with the pork role PM stuff and im not gonna touch it despite it being the most AI thing so far prolly

[Morning Tweet]

Why does being unfair and inaccurate make me scum?
MT treats achieving cuteness as a mission.
CLAP is more random.

Why is being more random more town indictative (or less scum indictative)?

My best guess is that you're saying that scum takes a more deliberate approach to faking interactions-- I'm trying to sell a "I'm more interested in being cute than playing" angle, ABR is trying to start game of thrones, Auro, well, I still don't really get what the issue with Auro was. is this a good interpretation of what you're saying or am i totally off

[Morning Tweet]

I feel like he's forcing himself into the alliance.

Forcing...? I came up with the whole idea!

LOL

I lightly like Kmd just totally missing posts cause i associate not reading the thread carefully more with town

I'm at work. I'll do meta when it becomes worth the time.
I have little doubt the cuteness emphasizers tend to do it in other games.
That's why it bothers me that MT is going about their cuteness as if it's a mission, whereas the CLAP cuteness is more 'this is just how this player carries themself.'

This is a first for me trying to buddy all the cute players, if that's what u mean. it's hard because there's so many!

I don't get the connection between: "Morning probably does this in other games" therefore -> "This is why it bothers me that she's going about it like a mission"

why? Usually i dont take it this far but i decided this would be my sort of opening gimmick after ABR asked me what our alliance should be themed and i saw Hoopla say she's cute or something

Pedit: Okay, i see now -- i disagree that it's scummy for me though. I like having fun in RVS and i don't usually try to read too closely into the first bunch of pages. I can tell you that my actual readslists aren't going to factor cuteness levels in.... too heavily.....

[Morning Tweet]

I guess to follow up on the difference between my town and scum styles, when I'm town mafia is an addiction; I find it difficult to stop reading and I feel a need to solve the puzzle and win.

I can 100% relate to this. I do muster up effort to post regularly as scum but it doesn't quite match up with how active I can get as scum. While manipulating people is fun, it feels more like a duty than when town where it's a puzzle.

+1+1+1 i have yet to enjoy myself while playing scum

But I even gave you my reason

Could I not just want to be confident in myself and share my cuteness, too? Or is that a crime? Like I don't get your angle, dude.

Would be a weird coincidence after everyone talks about a cute alliance. That fact that you seem to feel so attacked over it is giving me worse vibes than the original comment did... And the way you're trying to make it seem unrelated to the alliance.

I'm not feeling attacked, though. You're making a mountain out of a mole hill.

this doesn't strike me as a particularly big deal. I'm starting to like really Kmd for town though

[Morning Tweet]

caught?! Caught doing what? (・・；) the cute police are already onto us..

I rolled my eyes because i interpreted you as being less than fully serious.

This game is definitely interesting, no?

i'm really happy with it so far ヽ(^ω^)ノ

This is a first for me trying to buddy all the cute players, if that's what u mean. it's hard because there's so many!

Wow - trying to buddy the entire town at once after you were caught... the gall

i'm a bat with ambitions!

[Morning Tweet]

MT what was your thought process when deciding to employ an opening gimmick?

"look at all the cute players!! i want them!!!"

probably something like that

[Morning Tweet]

Green Crayons, can you put into words why that post from Untrod Tripod was scummy?

Sure:

vote porkens

don't you think it's way more likely that uni just missed it, rather than they're scum trying to, idk, pretend it didn't happen or something. Am i misinterpreting your reasoning?

[Morning Tweet]

MT what was your thought process when deciding to employ an opening gimmick?

"look at all the cute players!! i want them!!!"

probably something like that

Nah nah come on I’m asking a real question about your mind and rescissions. You just said you were thinking about opening gimmicks, I want to hear more about that process don’t brush this off please

oh that wasn't my intention sorry !

You're reading a tad deep into it, when i say gimmick, I just mean some schtick to have fun with, not really with a clear cut goal in mind. A lot of times I try to make it involve something game related like jumping on wagons or building alliances so we can start getting content, but a lot of it is just having fun

for example, someone posted a rat picture in one of my games, and i flipped out over it a little too much cause i have a fear of rodents (this has happened in multiple games actually). It was really pointless but we had something to talk about and game related stuff happened eventually

[Morning Tweet]

It didn't read like a joke. Was there a point to it?

Humor but maybe it was inappropriate
I like screwing around at the start of the game, just a thing I do? Mafia is pointless anyway :3

this is an interesting playstyle clash almost. I just interpreted Auro's entire first post as a joke and ignored it AI wise, whereas a lot of ppl seem to have read into it

Morning tweet, my not reading carefully was just rushing to read in bed when I first woke up because my battery was low and then reading while walking in the store while my wife shopped lol. Don't read into it. I haven't sat down and focused yet Just trying to keep up.

fair enough! My reasoning is that i usually make sure i'm reading carefully as scum as to not miss anything, but it's pretty weak cause that's not exactly a catch-all rule. I still think I like you from the starbuck exchange although i dont know if that could be put to words yet

[Morning Tweet]

Okay, Noob-ish players, tell me about you!

What brought you to MS?
What's been your favorite *finished* game that you played so far?
What's your favorite role and why?
Who are your top 3 to 5 favorite Scummers and why?

1. i love playing mafia but i'm too timid IRL to find people and none of my friends play it
2. I have a bunch actually-- I really liked Jigsaw Mafia for the flavour and mechanics, and there are many games i just enjoy because i met a lot of cool ppl in them. If i had to pick my most favourite so far, it'd be this one cause im usually not overly proud of my play but i thought i did pretty good that time around. The payoff at the end was really great for the amount of effort i put into it
3. Vanilla Townie cause you haven't got a care in the world and don't need to alter your play in any way
4. there are so many ppl i like on here but i've mostly met newer players so far. i can say ABR and I have been thru a lot together though ^ω^

[Morning Tweet]

Why are you voting MT?

Because his posting seems the most contrived.

he's been the one player that's done the most to push the game forward, and on an intuitive level, his reads roughly mirror what i am seeing - especially at the extremes. my biggest disagreement is that of the early game cuteness harvesters/alliance seekers, morning tweet seemed least sincere - or at least, seemed to be opportunistically using the screen of jokes-y cuteness to shield herself from potential early scrutiny.

i don't know how to respond to this sort of criticism. Is there something that seems insincere about it? Sure i couuuld be playing a gimmick so i don't have to pretend to scumhunt or so i can "avoid scrutiny", but also i could just as easily try to fake a bunch of reads and put on my towniest face if i were scum

is there a specific reason you think that's what's happening here?

pedit: your intutition is off then !

[Morning Tweet]

Is there something that seems insincere about it?

There were like 6 posts on it. Seems very try-hard for a mediocre joke.

We were still in RVS, but I can't imagine being THAT committed to that bit.

6 posts seems like a lowball estimate (nevermind i checked and thats about right). it was mediocre sure but i was having fun at least (¬ω¬)

so you don't believe i would

actually

commit to that sort of bit without some kind of ulterior motive other than just enjoying it?

......well i would ;c

[Morning Tweet]

don't know how to respond to this sort of criticism. Is there something that seems insincere about it? Sure i couuuld be playing a gimmick so i don't have to pretend to scumhunt or so i can "avoid scrutiny", but also i could just as easily try to fake a bunch of reads and put on my towniest face if i were scum

is there a specific reason you think that's what's happening here?

pedit: your intutition is off then !

one of the lamentable things about intuition is converting those subconscious rumblings into words. here's an attempt:

opening games tend to fragment into themes - jokers/questionnairers/wagoners etc. alliance crafting/cuteness riffing seemed like the dominant theme on page 1. i expect that scum upon observing the main narrative, tend to play along with it, as its the safest entry into the game. the continued adherence to the established running joke being an exercise in avoidance. a shield, if you will.

Cuteness attracts me like a flame to a moth. had the main narrative been something like mice or politics, you can be rest assured id have done my own thing

I get what you're saying though which is why i dont reeeally want to join your wagon

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: lol oh there's more

Okay, Noob-ish players, tell me about you!

What brought you to MS?
What's been your favorite *finished* game that you played so far?
What's your favorite role and why?
Who are your top 3 to 5 favorite Scummers and why?

is this aimed at me

1. 10+ years ago or whenever it was you guys were the biggest mafia forum out there
2. on this account? i guess the one with vpb and blair
3. scum, it's fun to lie
4. kuribo, thor, and meme, because any game they're in is fun to read

Okay, Noob-ish players, tell me about you!

What brought you to MS?
What's been your favorite *finished* game that you played so far?
What's your favorite role and why?
Who are your top 3 to 5 favorite Scummers and why?

1. i love playing mafia but i'm too timid IRL to find people and none of my friends play it
2. I have a bunch actually-- I really liked Jigsaw Mafia for the flavour and mechanics, and there are many games i just enjoy because i met a lot of cool ppl in them. If i had to pick my most favourite so far, it'd be this one cause im usually not overly proud of my play but i thought i did pretty good that time around. The payoff at the end was really great for the amount of effort i put into it
3. Vanilla Townie cause you haven't got a care in the world and don't need to alter your play in any way
4. there are so many ppl i like on here but i've mostly met newer players so far. i can say ABR and I have been thru a lot together though ^ω^

tbh i'd be fine with just lynching from this pool of people who want to talk about themselves

i thought the point was to get to know the newbies a tad bit better (-ω-)

[Morning Tweet]

who started the cuteness thing?

let me give u a run down

Spoiler: game of thrones of cuteness

ABR asks Morning for an alliance
Hoopla calls herself extremely cute
Morning accepts the alliance, but has 1 issue: Hoopla is cute and ABR is voting for her
ABR asks Morning what the team name should be
Morning says it should be something cute preferably, and we should invite Hoopla and Puppy
Puppy accepts the alliance and negotiations begin between Morning-ABR and Morning-Puppy
Morning states she still extends an open invitation to all cute playerss
Farside posts a cute picture
Morning is now independently allied with Albert, Puppy, and Farside with the invitation declined by Hoopla so far

Wait-- shouldn't this be interpreted as me starting it?

one of the lamentable things about intuition is converting those subconscious rumblings into words. here's an attempt:

opening games tend to fragment into themes - jokers/questionnairers/wagoners etc. alliance crafting/cuteness riffing seemed like the dominant theme on page 1. i expect that scum upon observing the main narrative, tend to play along with it, as its the safest entry into the game. the continued adherence to the established running joke being an exercise in avoidance. a shield, if you will.

I didn't observe the cuteness narrative unfold, i pretty much forced it into existence and perpetuated it. Your second point still stands though i can at least see why one would say i was trying to hide behind it. But "playing along with it" doesn't really make sense because this is not only something i do all the time, but i started it this time and was the main contributor to it.

[Morning Tweet]

hrmmmmmmm.

I didn't like Post 203 until i went back and saw hoopla starting the cute thing

BUT IF I instead view it as hoopla just making an idle comment and then MT started the ball rolling on making a cuteness thing, 203 is a lot less good because I thought 203 was referencing to hoopla's own attempt at getting the cuteness thing to be A Thing that MT glomped onto scummy-like

I was interpretting Hoopla's comment as a one-off thing, i was the one who asked for ABR to not for vote her so we could establish a cute dominion of sorts

I assumed i was mistaken cause hoopla was calling me out for more or less just going along with the thread but looking back i am pretty sure i was the one perpetuating it. (i apologize if i annoyed anyone with that)

[Morning Tweet]

here is another piece of intuition that will shock and dazzle the readers;

so you don't believe i would actually commit to that sort of bit without some kind of ulterior motive other than just enjoying it?

......well i would ;c

I get what you're saying though which is why i dont reeeally want to join your wagon

on closer inspection, my gut says this sequence of posts comes from town. i think scum would offer more of a defence and be more careful about resorting to passive wifom, and just... meek acceptance of others' suspicion. looks like plaintive town.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: green crayons

Well i'm just telling the truth in the first quote, this is actually how i am. And in the second was me caving in to your accusation of me possibly posting behind a "cuteness" shield/distraction thing. I understand what you mean, and i didn't think you were misrepping it, so I can't conclude scummy intentions from your push.

About Crayons question and your response in 235. I don't 100% get your response. He is correct that i was, in fact, the one who started the cute nonsense and you saying that i was just playing along with the main narrative doesn't make sense.

I see that you're saying his focus on this particular event is just an easy thing to participate in-- I mean, I am/was one of the current wagon of focus, right? The other things happening to comment on in recent memory are Starbuck's RQS, Kmd/Starbuck talking about that, and other.. things. What else should he have looked into? We've been making a big deal out of this bs for a while now

[Morning Tweet]

{Porkens}
{Kmd, iamausername, Llamarble}
{Green Crayons, farside22, Hoopla, Starbuck}

Porkens - Porkens is town because something something bothering to go there
Kmd - 335 is a good post by Kmd. Sums up the Crayons wagon perfectly, although its conclusion of there being 1-2 scum on wagon seems premature to me. I still maintain this townlean from earlier as well
iamausername - I quite like his catchup post with all the townreads. I don’t townread a single person in his PoE. It is also an interesting coincidence his PoE coincides with those voting for Crayons
Llama - It's weird to me that Llama plays like he has only a day to live -- However, seems like a strategy that would fail in the long term for scum. there's other stuff i like but that's one thing i wanted to note
Green Crayons - Green Crayons was fair early on with regards to me/Auro having less substance-filled content. In particular i think that 229, showing a recount of his thought process, to be somewhat town indicative
Starbuck - see Puppy's 439 on Starbuck, i agree with it very muc. she also reminds me of myself when i get under pressure a bit

I wanna talk about Auro and Blair as well i think:

I can heavily relate with Auro changing up his posting style (332). I feel like no one was amused with the early game antics so i’m fine playing more seriously now

I lightly like that he just hopped onto the Green Crayons wagon for pressure but later on puts crayon down as a “Gut townread”. I see that farside finds Auro’s reason of “pressure” to be weak reasoning to vote GC -- but i wasn’t particularly impressed with ANY reasoning for voting Green. it seemed just like it was for pressure and like a “Cash in your townpoints now!” deal. And Auro was kinda late on the townpoints anyway

I feel like he’s got a lot of non alignment indicative content so far and he’ll be an easier read down the line. He also recently completed a scum game, could check there to see how jokey he was in comparison to town games but i’m gonna guess he’s consistently pretty fluffy

With regards to Blair-- her 333 reminds me of how i framed people as my dead scum partner’s buddy in a previous game. Just kept it simple with an off wagon and an on wagon. Now that's a different situation and it isn’t inherently scummy so i considered not bringing it up but it’s also interesting she cited Porkens or Llamarble as the off-wagon buddy to IIAU, which im doubting it’d be either of them. I also find her reasons for putting VP/Porkens/Llama on there not super strong in general, although she does admit it’s way too early to buddy hunt

Disagree with her evaluation of Porken’s role PM comment

Feel like Blair is treating Starbuck’s misevaluation of her reasoning for pushing iamausername to be a lot stronger of a scumtell than it is. Yup 447 pretty much confirms that. I don't know if this is scum indictative for blair, but i don't want to vote Starbuck at all. Blair seems latched on to Starbuck whereas at this point if i'd have voted Starbuck, i'd be hopping off from the reaction, not feeling empowered by it

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet! Is that a bat in your avatar? Because OMG.

YES! A baby flying fox!!!!

But she was town in partition...

Wait wtf, what's my memory coming to - maybe I mixed up games, but I thought this was the one where she replaced in and made a massive solvey catchup as scum. Lemme have a look again

lol you're thinking of this one, although i wouldn't go so far as to call it solvey

[Morning Tweet]

And it is 100% possible to at least vaguely estimate the difficulty of lynching different players.
There's both a general order of lynch difficulty and an order of mislynch difficulty and I don't think either is hard to approximate.
You can figure out wagon-stickiness too. Generally an even keeled, low-moderate effort player who won't explode at people for wagoning them is a more viable D1 mislynch.
Especially if they aren't extra pro town or highly charismatic.

Sure, it's possible. I feel you analyze into Auro's vote extremely deeply and id be impressed if you're actually right but i dont see the compelling reason that Auro placed his votes with pinpoint precision on the best wagons possible. I feel like you could've probably explained why scum!Auro votes for more players than just VP, probably with similarly lengthy explanations.

What's tricky about Llama and Green Crayons for me is that i find myself oftentimes agreeing with what Crayons is saying and seldom agreeing with Llama-- but Crayons is basically just making fair observations, a lot of times with regards to me and Auro. Like pointing our early games arsnt AI, or the entirety of his 531. I townlean him slightly but if he is scum then it'd obviously be easier for him to see why I (and potentially Auro) are town.

It's similar to the Starbuck v. Blair misunderstanding where AGar/Llama moved in to point out how Starbuck misinterpreted Blair's vote on username. It's being fair, and I could see why scum might not want to stop the chaos, but also

somebody

was going to have to explain it eventually, so why not them? It looks good and the wagon wasnt going anywhere anyway

There's town and scum motivation for showing someone why their reasoning is decently obviously faulty. If it were something subtle, id probably award more townpoints since turning a blind eye to more quiet towntells that people arent picking up is something i do all the time as scum. But i felt like Blair confscumming Starbuck for not picking up on her exact reasoning for voting username was a big stretch to begin with and a lot of people could see the issue. Correct me if im wrong i suppose

[Morning Tweet]

I'm somewhat convinced MT is scum.

can you explain? my read on her has flipped and she's currently in my townbucket.

Uh, maybe not.
MT has been more active elsewhere on the site than here, but they're doing enough that it may not be worth worrying about. I should disengage for a while and come back more rested tomorrow like I was planning to.

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh of course this gets brought up

this game in particular i struggle to make quick little posts like i usually do. Idk if it's the early 'pressure', not knowing anybody, not being able to get too many solid reads, or whatever. I'm way less excited than usual-- i was during RVS but yeah i dont have that anymore

I am on my PC now and i am planning on having a good look rn though. Why are you putting me as scum with Blair? Auro sure idk maybe I'm being too lenient towards him-- I do kinda think he's someone i'd rather read down the line but then again perhaps I'm just not trying hard enough there. I glossed over some of his posts cause they didn't seem particularly helpful for his alignment

pedit/ Probably one of the strongest things i've felt so far is that Blair feels like she's attacking Starbuck way too hard. It feels a tad fake. But also i don't exactly see why she tunnels that hard as scum, it's not making her look good imo

[Morning Tweet]

There's town and scum motivation for showing someone why their reasoning is decently obviously faulty. If it were something subtle, id probably award more townpoints since turning a blind eye to more quiet towntells that people arent picking up is something i do all the time as scum. But i felt like Blair confscumming Starbuck for not picking up on her exact reasoning for voting username was a big stretch to begin with and a lot of people could see the issue. Correct me if im wrong i suppose

I think you are wrong here. Considering Blair's vote for IIAU also contained the reasoning for it, it could indeed be perceived as lazy play by Starbuck - which is valid grounds to call someone scum on especially when they frame it as a "policy". Starbucks' doubling down on the read (even while admitting that that part was a mistaken read) could indeed be seen as scummy for lack of re-evaluation by Blair, no?

@Blair: Do you not think that Starbuck actually just read 338 and interpreted it as you pushing IIAU for 2 posts? It's not a bad-faith vote, since if she read your original reasoning she probably wouldn't call it "policy" at all, it's likelier that she was basing it off that. Do you think laziness is that much of a scum indicator? I've often seen a lot of town miss a lot of things.

Ah I see now, Starbuck acknowledged that part was in error but doubled down on Blair anyway. I still don't have any issues with that since I'm townleaning Starbuck and don't have anything solid on Blair yet. Overall I don't think the interaction has much more for me to learn by looking back on it

I also suspect UT. I don't like his "i dont know how to read this game" post or any of his other contributions.

Disagree. UT is null at worst at the time of this post. But have been liking him more recently. What makes you think that "I don't know how to read this" is more likely to be from scum? sure i guess you don't have to fake having reads, but it's early D1!

also with regards to Reck/UT, is it wrong for me to just expect them to solve each other? I had them both as null for a while but they're both higher now cause of Reck's revelation and i lightly like all of UT's recent posts (such as the one that i think Llama pointed out)

[Morning Tweet]

He only gets a free pass for day 1.

He shouldn't get a pass for day 1 either. VP Balter is an amazing bandwagon.

Remember how bad your reads were in all of our recent games.

Listen to me and vote VP Baltar.

I appeal to the authority of my own self on this one. It's scummy.

I don't explain anything day 1 or else scum will know what to do and say in order for me not to scumread them. It will change the site meta.

oh, albert!! (>ω<)

Okay so on the ISO of VP I found him to basically just sheep reads and have no follow through with pushing any reads. I don't even know why he voted Auro at this point and he pushed MT and dropped it, which looks for pretty freeking weak reasons.

VOTE: VPB

Completed my iso so I feel better with some reads.
Null to scum:
Agar
UT
Kmd
Auro
Iam
CLP
MT
VPB

I'm the second scummiest player?! God damn! half of me wants to ask why but the other half doesn't want to get distracted defending myself any longer than i need to. I'll just ask one question-- is it related to the VP/Auro line you mention at the top?

Also I feel like disagree with half of those but to be fair I'm not sure what my null/scum pool is. Let me check

It's something like this (its not ordered).

Spoiler: the null area

AGar
VP Baltar
CantLynchAPuppy*
Auro
Blair
farside22*
Albert B. Rampage

But i haven't gone over VP's recent big post yet

[Morning Tweet]

Well it's powered by the fact that he initially read the exchange the same way Starbuck did, he didn't have to go far out of his way to figure out what was going on, but I do appreciate the effort at constructing a good post to clarify it for everyone.
But yes, it is a good post, there's nothing wrong with Agar - I see him in a pro town without that extra essence of towniness that I would want for a strong townread.

holy shit exactly

pedit: i forgot to remove those. they're people i don't have any notes written down on but still put in a tier other than null. i had puppy and farside just above null in my notes last night but ended up not being able to write shit explaining it so i moved you back down today

[Morning Tweet]

I'm somewhat convinced MT is scum. So he and Auro may survive the wilting of my previous scumteam.
To be joined by... I don't really know. Blair maybe? But two is enough for now I guess.

Your scumteam is comprised solely of newerish players! Not that that technically means anything, i guess-- i have Auro/Blair still not in the townpile

Agree with VP's comment on ABR more or less being impossible to read. Trumping, lol. Same thing for Hoopla being fine I guess

Okay to understand his Auro thing i'm gonna have to look back through Auro's posts wheeeeeeeeee

Hm okay. Auro switches off to farside like an hour later. It's a huge scumtell because Auro joined the "up and coming" wagon, or it's a huge scumtell that he dove in and out?

Maybe I'm too lenient on iamausername in my reads just because I didn't townread anybody in his PoE. Not entirely sure why I had him on my second town tier

Lol VP's reaction to UT is gold. I suppose it's a fair point that UT's reasoning could be considered hypocritical / could apply to many people. I don't think this makes UT inherently scummy-- your wagon (VP) just happens to be the one that's getting run up, so it makes sense that they'd vote for you and give their comment on you. They probably wouldve done the same for the rest of the people on that list. Still i like your reaction

Idk if farside feels particularly extra swayed by ABR. And yeah you can acknowledge that you're sheeping Blair but I guess that doesn't really change that farside is accusing you for it.

Pedit: @farside ABR always does this. How am i supposed to read him, he's basically just saying he knows who scum is and is yelling for everyone to help him over and over again. I have played with ABR on both sides though, hopefully i can be more useful and figure him out sometime. Our town games were kind of weird though and he played way differently in both of them, the common thing between both of them was that he just repeats the same idea over and over again though lol

VP i just don't have anything particularly AI and he's just been in my PoE the whole time. im reading thru his response to his wagon tho

[Morning Tweet]

the ol' puppy dog eyes, huh?

cuteness only gets you so far in this game!

tell me about it!

[Morning Tweet]

i have blair / starbuck / hoopla / abr / vpb as townreads. i don't have any strong scumreads, i think most of the discussions so far are in that forced stage and i don't feel like inventing any reads. it's easier to townhunt than scumhunt imo. so far most of the wagon interactions strike me as pretty natural early misconcepts, which leans me toward reading them as town. nothing jumping out so i'm figuring out what to do with my vote rn

Hard agree with the townhunting idea, the forced discussion and what not. do you know why you like blair, in particular?

[Morning Tweet]

MT you are wrong about VP Baltar. Either you need a gentle push in the right direction, or you alreadt know that...

Wrong about what with regards to him? he's like at the bottom of my reads since i don't townread him. I don't actively scumread him but i dont exactly actively scumread, period D1

[Morning Tweet]

Here's my case on VP Baltar:

1) He's desperately trying to look town and willing to make big posts calling out some people as town and some as scummy (he says I'm NAI in the big post, later says he doesn't like that I am rolefishing Reck). MT says this is town but it seems incredibly pre-planned to me so I think she's the scumbuddy.

You mean this?

Agree with VP's comment on ABR more or less being impossible to read. Trumping, lol. Same thing for Hoopla being fine I guess

My response to VP's big post was: Agree on ABR, agree on Hoopla, I ask him why he dislikes Auro exactly, I wonder if im wrong about IAUN, I like his reaction to UT partially cause its funny but i disagree with the actual point he makes about UT, and i disagree on farside.

i don't know where you get the idea im calling VP town. I like some parts of the big post but he's still in the PoE i posted a little ways back, i haven't moved him. The only part i even mentioned liking was the funny reaction to UT lol

that being said though i dont find it scummy that you interpreted it that way, i guess. Makes sense you'd start connecting him with people if you're so sure you've caught scum i suppose

I'm gonna have to reread to see what i think of the other points. Up til now i have just seen your "Vote VP vote VP" posts but not any that really explain why

[Morning Tweet]

I feel like I am taking crazy pills because I do not understand the point VP is trying to make, so I'm missing what ABR is responding to.

VP: "Albert was pushing a weak vote on Blair until I called him on it, prompting him to aggressively push me instead."

ABR: "The post he is referring to where he 'called' me out on my vote wasn't even what he is representing it as, and there is no way he genuinely believes that post influenced my behavior at all."

P-edit: Yeah, that.

im using this to help me understand it ty blair

I see..........

ABR votes for VP, his comment is "This is moderately scummy"

VP says this is classic ABR, says he is unsure what the "this" ABR was referring to was. He notes that he finds it interesting that ABR votes him after he pointed out that ABR's vote on Blair is useless.

319 is the post VP is referring to. He does indeed call ABR's vote useless in this post lol

I see that ABR now asserts that the post in question barely registered with him. I believe it. However, VP feels the comment may have factored into ABR's vote on him. Alright, I find that a bit unlikely. Am I understanding the case now?

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet & Blair, I'd like it if you both can revisit my earlier push on farside and give me your thoughts on it.

Her read on you seems to be one of many that seem to be BoPing you almost. like they think you're not doing enough. That must be annoying.

A lot of your push on farside seems like you feel she's evaluating you unfairly. such as 493 -- you're trying to get her to prove she's actually reading you in good faith. It is kind of hard for me to tell if she's onto something since i haven't read that hydra game she's bringing up. However! I would not be surprised in the slightest if you're playing differently in this game, and i would not scumread you for it regardless.

I don't think that necessarily makes farside scum though so i wouldn't be interesting in voting her

[Morning Tweet]

it looks to me like auro has been deliberately subverting the expectations of the typical townie blueprint on D1. the no-lynch joke, the theory discussion in lieu of actual scumhunting, the early spamming seemingly devoid of depth. these actions can easily be interpreted as suspicious, because his entire posting appears to go against the grain. but the fact he is self-aware that he goes against the grain and does it anyway seems like a town mindset. a town mind resolute in playstyle, come what may from people's reactions - the following quotes from post 275 being prime examples;

That describes Auro's play pretty much exactly how I see it except that I'm not sure whether to call it town or scum play. It just looks more like the newer site meta. All of this just feels like the new style of play. It's kind of screw around until something catches your attention or deadline gets close. That makes it hard to have a read on this kind of player for most of Day 1 because it's easy for scum to duplicate that play.

This is why i can't get excited about an Auro lynch. I haven't found anything remarkably AI about him.

I think Auro is confusing people because he's scum playing pretty well.
He kept his vote movement from being too simple, gave reads and reasons and introspection, showed a bit of cheekiness.
The thing that's missing is the underlying attempt to actually figure out the game or signs of caring about directing the lynch toward scum.
And for his defensive methods, there is too much focus on 'your logic is bad or not presented.'

I linked the games I looked at so I can look at them again later if I need to.

I look forward to Auro's solve post.

This describes perfectly how i feel about auro. I see him asking players about a few people but i don't see anything that looks like an attempt to figure out those he finds scummy.

His solvey posts are all super townread-oriented, he seems to have not too many scumreads to attack. I suppose this could be interpreted as scummy-- He hasn't tried to start any wagons, doesn't seem to have pinpointed who he thinks is scum. But i think this is true for more players than just Auro and i dont necessarily scumread that in of itself, especially on D1 where scum is the least clear

I'm not trying to say that we can't penalize people for not trying to solve D1 just because there's very little info-- but i think scumreads in particular are tricky, and this game as a whole is feeling very difficult for me at least. And it's not like he isn't trying to solve either, i think on the townread side of the spectrum he's done good in 779.

[Morning Tweet]

There is a significant disparity between Porkens' sitewide activity and his activity here.

I'm learning more and more that is NAI. I hate to say that because I found it useful once upon a time but these days it really depends on the player. Like Mastina for sure would be scummy doing that in my eyes. But I do expect some better post to come from pork if he is town. He can be a wide range of different things. I've seen him chill and relax to goofy and spammy and both times that was him as town.
But if he is town he's got good instinct so I will see what he does or says before I judge him.

Yeah this is seriously not AI. Also in my experience with Porkens so far I've seen him get progressively more serious. He was scum in that game, don't think he is this time. I don't find this ill intentioned by llama though

the composition of the vp baltar wagon is mostly good, so i'm jumping back on.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: vp baltar

VP Baltar (L-3)

~ Albert B. Rampage, iamausername, Untrod Tripod, farside22, Llamarble, Hoopla

I like UT and Llama pretty good. Hoopla decently. Very lightly the rest of the members but i lightly like a lot of people

I don't like that the wagon is rooted in ABR's desire to look like he's the one in charge of the town and the rah-rah bullshit that follows and IAAUN's straight desire to counter the Auro wagon. Generally the composition of it just grosses me out. The wagon could be put on any of half of the players in this game and nobody would need to "change" their reasoning for their vote.

Hmm. The first point about not wanting to follow ABR i can understand i suppose.

I like the composition of the wagon

Your point about it being able to be put on like half of the players in the game is sort of true. You'd have to change the case, i thought ABR laid out enough reasoning. But yes you could feasibly come up with a wagon for anybody since we're in such a low information stage

[Morning Tweet]

I feel like scum!VP would admit it wasn't much of a jab, now that pretty much everyone has chimed in with the same.

The fact that he hasn't makes me think he just genuinely felt like it was a good jab.

I would agree with you normally, but the way he doubles down and exaggerates the substance of his push and lied about it makes it hard for him to distance himself form it.

I agree had the extra stuff that came after not occured, i'd think it's literally the most minor of comments and it really doesn't matter. VP comments "Hmm ABR attacks me after i jabbed him, interesting" -- ABR is like "Do you seriously think that registered with me?" -- VP is like "yeah"

The exaggeration and the lies I basically understand the case of. I dont find it as severe as ABR would make it sound but a d1 starting point is nice. i like the wagon comp decently enough

[Morning Tweet]

My first suspicions of Auro started here:

Morning Tweet is cute in every game. She definitely possesses the capability of faking gamesolving, and convincingly so. I actually loosely think that as scum she'd make the judgement call

to avoid

cute-gimmick posting instead of embracing it. To me, it very plainly looks like she's having fun with people she recognizes. I doubt that the motivation is "form an initial cute impression, get classified as cute, and that will help me the rest of the game!".I townread her reaction: she seemed surprised at this being the major talking point, still recognized the perspectives of people attacking her while maintaining that it's not really relevant, and noted that this play could annoy some of the playerbase and apologized for it.

I'll call you out on your linking to a game that has nothing to do with your point

Auro 275is similar to VP Baltar 261. High effort posts to make town think lazy scum wouldn't bother to make and makes town feel bad about voting them.

The devil is in the details, and if you bother to actually drill into the links they make and context of the points they try to make, everything isn't as they would have you believe.

On page 22, I lay out the way I want to shape the game state.

by "drill into the links", are you implying that Auro is careless scum that linked the wrong game because he wasn't actually concerned with sorting me, he was just trying to look town?

[Morning Tweet]

yes, i think scum have the tendency to do what is required of them, but few will go the extra-mile - so to speak - and attempt to look the most active/obvtown player in the game. there is actually risk in doing so on D1/D2. i used to attempt to play scum that way in my heyday, but if you obvtown too early as scum, then are alive on D4 onwards, you end up becoming a suspect anyway from a "why are you still alive?" angle.

You know who that player is in this game?

FOS: Morning Tweet

I've tried to do that as scum, sure. Don't really think that has been happening so far this game and really am not feeling like it's gonna be a early obvtown one at all-- even if i were scum, the same problems affecting me getting into this game would probably still be present.

i think it's Can'tLynchAPuppy, Albert.

You think puppy has been going the extra mile this game to appear town? I felt like puppy and I were pretty similar in that we're kinda quiet voices. 664 pretty much sums up what i was thinking

scanning the ISO of our under-the-radar players, i'm drawn more to iamausername and KMD.

agar's had some moments of useful/unique contribution and UT has a slightly more obstinate/unapologetic air about him.

scum know when they're underperforming and caught behind the 8-ball. when they know that and

feel

that, they tend to resort to more surface-level participation in an attempt to blend in, ticking the boxes of expected town behaviour -the stuff they think the town wants to see from them. i see this behaviour more in iamausername and KMD.

Agree that UT feels townie. username i townleaned earlier for the big townread post but now I'm less sure. KMD i have still been liking. Your point at the bottom seems like it could be potentially be really accurate but also hard to prove. When i read KMD's ISO, it doesnt scream trying to do stuff they think the town wants from them. Perhaps i dont have an eye for it

[Morning Tweet]

I mean he seems more concerned with looking town. High effort, but not detail-oriented. He's usually a stronger scumhunter than he's here. Could be an off game, could be scum. We need votes to find out.

I would not be surprised at all if this game is harder to get into for him. I suppose he could be scum but because of the likelihood that this is just a difficult game, it doesn't make me feel like he has any extra chances of being scum

VOTE: VP l-2

[Morning Tweet]

The Solve
Albert B. Rampage: Arrogance and taking control are an unnecessary call to attention in a gamestate where he'd be quite comfortable as scum.
Blair: General behavior in a player-list that doesn't award tunnels
Auro: Accessed role PM; town.
Hoopla: Uniquely townreads me but also second-guesses it when the rest of town shouts that I'm scum; so there's no intent of buddying (even when I respond very positively to her generally in game).
Llamarble: Earnestness.
Porkens: I believe that "clueless" is not a way that Porkens would approach as scum.
Starbuck: The emotive reaction to the push on her, and subsequent relief at being termed a false positive both read town.
Untrod Tripod: Brazen admission of having nothing to add and call-out of the D1 solvers.
Green Crayons: One of the holistic townreads I have, rather than specific tells.
xRECKONERx: The call to cut out spam, and quick to recognize biases from playstyle (as covered earlier)

This list is they type of fluff that is all over Auro's play this game. Between that and the rampant discussions about mafia theory and meta that I just glaze over, I'm lulled into a state of "I just want to ignore this person." and then I remember I could not for the life of me tell you who Auro actually thinks is scum. The play reeks and should actually be lynched.

Feels like Auro is way less scummy than he's made out to be here. The mafia theory and meta discussion i glaze over too sure. You think he's doing that in an effort to have people want to ignore him? I don't think so, he always does that. He has a random pointless mechanical discussion in every game i've ever seen him in, it's not unique to here or him as scum

And disagree with lynching him just due to a lack of showing players he thinks are scum

If I'm scum, the way I would look at this game is who do I have to lynch and NK to achieve my win condition?

Hard to lynch: Albert B. Rampage, Untrod Tripod, farside22, Llamarble, Hoopla, Reck, Morning Tweet, Auro, VP Baltar
Would have difficulty climbing out of pressure: Blair, Green Crayons, Porkens
Would self-destruct under pressure: iamausername, Kmd4390, Starbuck, AGar, CantLynchAPuppy

I can't be lynched day 1 if I'm invested, I'm too strong and aggressive; Reck has a similar playstyle. I look around, and there's other really tough lynches for scum.

MT, Farside, and Blair tend to obvtown over time and easily become unlynchable.

i want to note it's subjective how easy it is to lynch certain players, and it also depends on scum's knowledge of each player. This list and subsequent scum strategies could look completely different depending on who the scumteam is

[Morning Tweet]

ABR switching to Auro then not switching back to VP who he vehemently wanted at L-1 and claim is kinda eh

He scumreads Auro for not joining the VP wagon because ABR told him to? i could have predicted that reaction from Auro regardless of alignment. saying "Vote someone or I will vote you" is practically begging Auro to not do it and i wouldve thought ABR would know that

Plus he then thought he was being baited into voting an L-1 VP but when he realized that was false he did actually vote for VP. it seemed like his plan was to vote vp all along. I feel at least one person was calling his delayed vote some kind of scum theatrics but i was reading it as genuine and the thought occured to me that the whole obsession with Auro today could be partially scum driven.

Some people found Auro's playstyle/early antics/voting pattern scummy, i can believe that. But surely more people found this NAI than there was shown in the thread. It seems like an unnatural amount of pressure to me. something easy enough to go with. Im sure that on the flip side theres some scum that didnt go with it but i feel like if Auro is town, at least a couple did

that was something that occurred to me in the 15 minutes i spent rereading. I should probably gather evidence for this theory or disprove it later

[Morning Tweet]

hoo boy, this is going to be a hot take because no one asked for it and im not going to really explain it beyond "gut feeling"

but im thinking 2/4 scum in this group: [ llamarble, farside22, reck, kmd ]

thought goes like this: day reads to me like lots of town infighting, main wagons town (vpb, auro), some of the bigger drivers (blair, abr, gc) don't feel like scum drivers. so im kind of looking for players who are skirting around the main wagons and main discussions and that's what i feel at least. (actually llamarble is 3rd most active player which surprised me because i don't remember much of what he has said / done all game, this is probably the first iso ill do when i get around to that stage)

I have mixed feelings about this because it feels like at least the Auro wagon is being forced to me, i havent quite made up my mind on VP though. Your final group is a very hot take but with Llama i dont think he's scum and Reck i might have agreed hes in the PoE if not for the revelation claim. I like Kmd but it's a lot of me agreeing with him recently rather than exactly townreading per se

I remember Pork asking me why i changed up my reads on Blair/farside. dont really remember Blair read changing-- I thought her push on Starbuck was over the top but a lot of people have responded positively to it so im kinda just putting that away for now. I like Starbuck for town

Farside i thought her early play was townie but I'm not a fan of her Auro push and her reads were misaligned with mine as i remember. i dont scumread either of these players but i dont townread them

[Morning Tweet]

ABR switching to Auro then not switching back to VP who he vehemently wanted at L-1 and claim is kinda eh

He scumreads Auro for not joining the VP wagon because ABR told him to? i could have predicted that reaction from Auro regardless of alignment. saying "Vote someone or I will vote you" is practically begging Auro to not do it and i wouldve thought ABR would know that

You just plagiarized Blair.

FOS: MT

I'm saying that by making the threat in the first place, you guaranteed you would be moving your vote in five minutes ("If you don't vote for who I tell you to in five minutes, I'm voting for you!" will make the other person dig their heels in 100% of the time and you knew this).

darn. It's not exactly rocket science though

[Morning Tweet]

ABR switching to Auro then not switching back to VP who he vehemently wanted at L-1 and claim is kinda eh

He scumreads Auro for not joining the VP wagon because ABR told him to? i could have predicted that reaction from Auro regardless of alignment. saying "Vote someone or I will vote you" is practically begging Auro to not do it and i wouldve thought ABR would know that

You just plagiarized Blair.

FOS: MT

I'm saying that by making the threat in the first place, you guaranteed you would be moving your vote in five minutes ("If you don't vote for who I tell you to in five minutes, I'm voting for you!" will make the other person dig their heels in 100% of the time and you knew this).

darn. It's not exactly rocket science though

you know what actually, whatever. i read through the past whatever amount of pages the best i could on my phone. Usually i wait till im on my PC to check everything more closely and be more organized and try not to be redundant, but this time i just posted what i was thinking as i thought it. at least i said something when i felt like not doing anything

[Morning Tweet]

Pork, are you alright mate? I'm 99% sure you are town but ABR acting irrationally =/= ABR conf scum, so your anger is.. misplaced

UNVOTE:

you know, I can probably defend some of Auro's criticisms, i'm sure some is NAI. but probably not all of them. I don't explicitly townread either of the competing wagonees. I can't find the motivation right now to review Auro's big ass ISO or look back for the most compelling reasons. I do know that he's been the most polarizing character of today so in theory we'll learn the most from flipping/not flipping him

While i dont want to do an in depth look back through the pages, I see VP summarized the scum case just a second ago. what a cool dude

1) his dump of the vote off me after I called him out as bandwagoning me to avoid the troubles he was facing. I first started calling this out in my post 485
2) He votes farside on like page 17 and does little if anything to encourage people to lynch her. I mean, lord knows I've been playing defense for like 20 pages here and have not been able to do as much active scum hunting -- but I don't think that's the case with Auro. He just kind of sat on that vote and joked and theorized to infinity.
3) THE THEORIZING TO INFINITY, OH MY CHRIST. I know MT says this is how he is, and I don't know him, so that's probably true. But honestly, i think scum has benefited this game from the jumped up page count. I do think there must be a scum among the most active players encouraging that. Auro's fluff to content ratio makes him a good suspect in this regard. I called this out in post 825 Even when he's trying to make "scum/town hunting posts" it looks like generic fluff.
4) The wagon on me has felt like a combination of apathy and a refusal of people to vote Auro. That has obviously shifted. I was starting to get weird concerns in the last day or so because as I started reflecting on why I was getting wagoned, it sort of occurred to me ABR would frequently say "VP or auro" but would then slightly nudge in my direction each time (percentages, etc). Looking at ABR's ISO, I saw lots of more direct calls to vote me and direct criticisms, and not nearly as much on Auro. However, ABR's unexpected switch and refusal to put me at L-1 when he had the chance basically means I was worrying about nothing. So I need to reassess who had a lack of interest in Auro's wagon but has jumped or been on mine with no prob (thinking mainly IAAU and MT here off hand, but I need a closer look at them.)

1) Okay, his switch to farside coincides with you inquiring why he's voting for you. Ah, so he dodged having to explain himself jumping on the highest bandwagon. I can see the logic here for sure-- although I also feel farside's read on him is unfair. Did that warrant him OMGUSing her? Perhaps not, it's certainly an easyish thing to attack if he's scum. I can also find it believable that he feels like farside is being disingenuous though

2) Hmm. I get what he's saying about farside. There was indeed little to no chance anyone was going to join him, though. He did reach out to me and somebody else asking what we thought about it but it wasn't really going to go anywhere. That actually does remind me of how I handled D1 in one of my scumgames -- I voted for a vanity wagon by myself with okay enough reasoning, didn't do too much to actively try to get that player lynched, then got them lynched on a later day.

3) Lol it is very much him. I will agree that, in at least in my case, scum has very much benefited from the game being so long. I'd say that it is fair he is part of the problem, however, regardless of his alignment, he was going to post like this.

4) I know Auro better and disagree with some of the criticisms, whereas I don't know a lick about you. You both are or at least were in around the same spot in my PoE. Not exactly sure what I think at the moment.

[Morning Tweet]

Also you can come back to that tomorrow after auro is dead and say “ aw shucks I guess we should have lynched VP after all”

We are not allowing that lol and there's no way scum!ABR thinks he can get away with such a simple plan

I also thought your strategy of running up one of the hardest to lynch players today was a pretty good idea - so here we are!

so you're venturing down new horizons with Pork to sort ABR? Do you think ABR stands a similar chance flipping red as Auro?

[Morning Tweet]

Also you can come back to that tomorrow after auro is dead and say “ aw shucks I guess we should have lynched VP after all”

We are not allowing that lol and there's no way scum!ABR thinks he can get away with such a simple plan

I also thought your strategy of running up one of the hardest to lynch players today was a pretty good idea - so here we are!

so you're venturing down new horizons with Pork to sort ABR? Do you think ABR stands a similar chance flipping red as Auro?

Simple plans are the easiest to get away with, and by the reaction of you and the rest of his defenders, he should be as confident.

Defender? hardly. However i think scum!ABR wasn't going to switch it up to VP after mislynching Auro in that scenario. That's too blatant-- either ABR/VP are buddies and that's a gambit, ABR is setting VP as a buddy late game in the event he dies, or mayyybe ABR hopes some townie else picks up the torch on VP the next day and he can set that townie up. I think all of those scenarios are more likely for a scum!ABR

Also you can come back to that tomorrow after auro is dead and say “ aw shucks I guess we should have lynched VP after all”

That's the same thing Auro said. You won't find me lining up lynches in my iso so your accusations are baseless. I think Auro flips scum and this is a last-ditch attempt to save him.

You think Pork is scum trying to save his buddy? I doubt that, Pork has been consistently obvtown

[Morning Tweet]

Also you can come back to that tomorrow after auro is dead and say “ aw shucks I guess we should have lynched VP after all”

We are not allowing that lol and there's no way scum!ABR thinks he can get away with such a simple plan

I also thought your strategy of running up one of the hardest to lynch players today was a pretty good idea - so here we are!

so you're venturing down new horizons with Pork to sort ABR? Do you think ABR stands a similar chance flipping red as Auro?

Considering I actively hated the Auro wagon, yeah, at least equal chances.

Oh. I got the impression you townread him early but have since been undecided, you did L-1 him after all. I was considering possibly joining the ABR endeavour although I do want Auro to claim first

I'm fairly convinced that if we pick not Baltar / Auro it should be one of MT UT IAAU CLAP in approximately that order of preference.

Blair what do you think of MT?

I had a gut townread on MT for 48 and nothing has really prompted me to reexamine it. (Context: I said I never roll scum, MT *takes the time to check my past games to fact check this*)

Talk to me about why MT should be in the lynch pool.

by thee wayyy i noticed this. I didn't check your games in response to that joke. if i hadn't seen that game, i would've figured you were joking about never being scum, i wouldn't have needed to check that lul. I just read some of noughts and crosses prior to this game cause i thought the setup was interesting and i distinctly remember being surprised you were scum

You think Pork is scum trying to save his buddy? I doubt that, Pork has been consistently obvtown

I think obvtown is a bit of a stretch.

Maybe in isolation that's an exaggeration. my entire read of Pork as a whole is pretty close to obvtown though

i was gonna do an summary of all my townreads but i got burnt out almost instantly after 1 person. guess who!

Spoiler: pork

Revelation stuff.

Like 273 -- acknowledging he has almost no reads. Good reaction to his towncred from his revelation in 537, if he is scum he has completely fooled me there. I’m actually a NE rogue in dnd usually, but in mafia i would have to agree with bard. His comment on ABR v. VP at the bottom of 895 is similar to how i approached it. His recent hyper suspicion of ABR i almost feel HOWEVER i can see ABR not voting in ways that make sense as town due to his personality. It was bullshit but im not sure it was necessarily super scum indicative bullshit like pork sees it

+(i think pork's recent over the top behaviour is genuine)

[Morning Tweet]

ABR switching to Auro then not switching back to VP who he vehemently wanted at L-1 and claim is kinda eh

are you saying this is a scummy action from ABR?

you know what actually, whatever. i read through the past whatever amount of pages the best i could on my phone. Usually i wait till im on my PC to check everything more closely and be more organized and try not to be redundant, but this time i just posted what i was thinking as i thought it. at least i said something when i felt like not doing anything

This feels overly defensive to me.

Pork, are you alright mate? I'm 99% sure you are town but ABR acting irrationally =/= ABR conf scum, so your anger is.. misplaced

UNVOTE:

you know, I can probably defend some of Auro's criticisms, i'm sure some is NAI. but probably not all of them. I don't explicitly townread either of the competing wagonees. I can't find the motivation right now to review Auro's big ass ISO or look back for the most compelling reasons. I do know that he's been the most polarizing character of today so in theory we'll learn the most from flipping/not flipping him

you're unvoting me why? Also, why are you saying you need to go to his ISO and dig up reasons to defend him? I mean, like I would do that maybe for someone I was strong town reading, but no someone I "don't explicitly townread"

I think i wrote a bunch of words like scummy, questionable, and the likes but i ended up with eh because i couldn't decide what i thought of it other than it was weird. I know ABR does irrational things-- he could have town reasons beyond my understanding for switching it to Auro, or potentially be doing it for scummy reasons like i speculated in 1099. I had a stronger negative reaction to it when i started making the post than i did while i was finishing it but i posted it

anyway

.

Yeah it was. I meant it more as a whatever to myself feeling disappointed more than to ABR. i was just annoyed i finally felt like trying to say something and then of course it's redundant and ABR is getting on me for it

That's not what i mean. I probably should have said "I

could

defend some of his criticisms". I mean that there are parts of his criticisms (overly high post count, spends too much time debating mechanics) that i could prove are NAI, but other parts (basically the vote pattern with VP/farside) that I wouldn't

Oh i unvoted you cause idk i was actually trying to get a better grasp on the Auro case, I guess. I could have left it on there but your summary was so nice and i don't have a preference between the wagons. I actually could be leaning towards Auro now cause the reasoning for your wagon (other than you're in my PoE) is pretty stale now in comparison to the Auro case, at least in my head

[Morning Tweet]

auro's "final moments" reactions read fairly town to me. That or he's a great town actor, which is probably something a lot of the playerlist is worried he is, so i guess that doesn't really matter much

Plus the VT claim tho :/

pedit: i ate that up from porkens i suppose then, i thought it looked great on him, i could believe he was getting worked up over it

[Morning Tweet]

UT's progression on me is the scummiest.

scum!UT wouldn't have to go out of their way to vote you there without any build-up to it. You don't like it because it's more of a lack of progression, yeah? I don't see scum incentive to be the L-1 without any build up, if anything i think it looks good

[Morning Tweet]

scum!UT wouldn't have to go out of their way to vote you there without any build-up to it.

Unless scum notice signs that the wagon on me may dismantle.

@Porkens: grant me sweet death!

Eh, VP was the first person to express they wanted it to continue. Hoopla sort of provided reasoning for us not to continue but didn't commit to it because something something high calibre play

I bet the daytalk wouldve told her what to think. But did she actually think that she'd get an answer? why not unvote then ask!?

[Morning Tweet]

why didn't Hoopla unvote, ask the mod, then determine whether or not she should place weight in the claim. She left it on and asked to help clear up her conflict, but she didn't give the mod any time because she kept her vote on

Pedit: Ugh.

[Morning Tweet]

Your reaction felt real but i was too scared of being wrong as always.

"why don't we talk more, why don't we talk more, why don't we ask the mod questions about setup that won't actually ANSWER anything real"

what, do you think the scum is going to say "oh, some pressure. guess you caught me and I will now claim scum"? Like at a certain point you just have to go for it, and I've found that the longer you let your D1 go, the less likely you are to actually hit that scum. you end up going with secondary and tertiary compromises. it sucks and doesn't hit scum.

if I made a mistake in voting Auro, fine. I stand by it. you're gonna make mistakes when you don't have the benefit of knowing everyone's alignment

You're right to an extent, although i wish we hadn't done it this way. But you're right that even if someone had stopped the lynch it probably wouldn't have changed that people suspected Auro, i suppose. We might not have gotten anywhere.

Still I see why Hoopla asked about daytalk. She wanted to know if it was possible Auro was assisted in claiming VT (i assume). I feel that if daytalk were confirmed to be off that'd be grounds for switching. but i didnt scumread Auro like most people did

[Morning Tweet]

Pork's hammer was super irrational but if he's scum i feel like i have to let him get away with it because I could see him just being pissed off enough into not caring anymore

If I sustain my reads im more drawn to earlier wagoners as well as off wagon players. Pork/UT i dont think is scum from that interaction and i townleaned Starbuck as well

[Morning Tweet]

Lol, I wouldn't be taking coaching if I were scum.
Too high calibre for that, etc

Ah coaching was a bad way of describing it

I mean more like someone perhaps experienced saying "Hey guys if one of us is ran up, i suggest claiming VT," and you taking that suggestion

[Morning Tweet]

Pork's hammer was super irrational but if he's scum i feel like i have to let him get away with it because I could see him just being pissed off enough into not caring anymore

If I sustain my reads im more drawn to earlier wagoners as well as off wagon players. Pork/UT i dont think is scum from that interaction and i townleaned Starbuck as well

Oh don’t worry they’ll come after me like flies on shit tomorrow.

I mean, you're practically begging for it! I doubt it though

Weeelll Blair called the hammer gross. ABR insinuated earlier that you were scum trying to pivot the wagon off of Auro. at least you showed him!

[Morning Tweet]

Weeelll Blair called the hammer gross. ABR insinuated earlier that you were scum trying to pivot the wagon off of Auro. at least you showed him!

There is scum between UT/Porkens.

Probably UT, but that whole ordeal was atrocious.

That hammer was premature. I am not impressed with your performance Porkens.

the very next two posts!!! lmao

[Morning Tweet]

Right that won’t be turned around on me at all as “shutting down further opportunity for information”. I’ve heard this song before and I’m not stressing it know why? Because scum has had complete control of this game for 20 pages and nobody gives a shit.

Auro: <3

it was extremely irrational pork

but the only scum motivation that could be possibly be behind it is a "too scummy to be scum" kinda WIFOM thing

And i'm already pretty sure you're town

[Morning Tweet]

Why is it rational to say you want someone at L-1 and not vote to put them there?

No i mean hammering Auro when you're convinced scum i.e. ABR is controlling the game away from a VP wagon and onto an Auro one, makes no sense. You sounded like you were pissed off we were all sheeping scum so your response was to be the final vote

...you did hammer didnt you? Yeah i checked to make sure im not insane

[Morning Tweet]

That hammer was premature. I am not impressed with your performance Porkens.

There's always that risk you take when putting players at L-1, otherwise the value of it is lost, ABR.

That's the failure of strong arming L-1s on "pro players". While I'm a fan of the strategy, don't force them: make it happen via rhetoric. More difficult, but a helluva lot more useful.

Then claim at L-2. This is a large. You should have fought harder to live first of all, second of all claim before L-1, third of all push harder and post more substance. You are better than this.

Ah yes he should've just "fought harder". His reaction seemed great to me. He fought really really hard where i would have just gotten demotivated in his place. He claimed just fine too

[Morning Tweet]

I think MT is the scum.

yeah let's accuse Porkens/UT and Auro himself, and attack whoever disagrees with that

Why is it rational to say you want someone at L-1 and not vote to put them there?

No i mean hammering Auro when you're convinced scum i.e. ABR is controlling the game away from a VP wagon and onto an Auro one, makes no sense. You sounded like you were pissed off we were all sheeping scum so your response was to be the final vote

...you did hammer didnt you? Yeah i checked to make sure im not insane

God you still won’t answer me. The whole group of you has just decided to gaslight me. I’m not the crazy one.

What? I did answer, i was trying to clear up what i meant by irrational. Putting him at L-1 was fine by you, that's not what i meant

[Morning Tweet]

Ah yes he should've just "fought harder". His reaction seemed great to me. He fought really really hard where i would have just gotten demotivated in his place. He claimed just fine too

He fought in the last page and just as he was starting to look town and I was going to unvote, Porkens couldn't help himself and hammered while we had plenty of time left and players who hadn't checked in yet to weigh in on the claim. What the fuck.

You said "Any last reads?" in response to him. it didn't come off that way at all

[Morning Tweet]

I think MT is the scum.

blair and morning tweet take first and second prize in "suspicious twilight auras"

how will this factor into reads tomorrow?

to be continued...

Blair immediately accusing UT/Pork is BS-- what the heck did i do?!

What? I did answer, i was trying to clear up what i meant by irrational. Putting him at L-1 was fine by you, that's not what i meant

I’m talking about ABR refusing to put VPB at l-1 when that’s what his stated intent was and the complete disinterest in going back on VP after auro claimed

Yeah i agree that was completely irrational. I just don't know if it's scummy

[Morning Tweet]

Ah yes he should've just "fought harder". His reaction seemed great to me. He fought really really hard where i would have just gotten demotivated in his place. He claimed just fine too

He fought in the last page and just as he was starting to look town and I was going to unvote, Porkens couldn't help himself and hammered while we had plenty of time left and players who hadn't checked in yet to weigh in on the claim. What the fuck.

You said "Any last reads?" in response to him. it didn't come off that way at all

Oh my god I see the same reality as someone else what is this feeling is almost forgotten

I AM COMPLETELY ON THE SAME PAGE AS YOU BUT MY RESPONSE WAS DEPRESSION WHEREAS YOURS WAS TO HAMMER

[Morning Tweet]

I think MT is the scum.

blair and morning tweet take first and second prize in "suspicious twilight auras"

how will this factor into reads tomorrow?

to be continued...

Who cares?

Tell me I'm wrong. That L-1/hammer was atrocious. We had a plan (I thought?) and it was crumpled up and thrown in the garbage.

Okay yeah it was terrible. Why would they do it as scum though. Pork would have to be putting on some wild theatrics and UT really didn't need to step in there, esp when they don't have a history of really scumreading Auro.

I guess UT i'm less confident in. it just doesn't make sense to me

[Morning Tweet]

Again, please scrutinize the last minute ABR wagon. I pointed out that that could be brilliant scum play: to give the impression that it was an attempt to save me, thus justifying my lynch more...
(Which UT exactly either took the bait for, or is scum with whoever planned that)

Isn't that like, just Pork and Blair?

I'm starting to wonder if my wrath is misplaced on blair and maybe it should just be for ABR. 1195 is a

LIKELY STORY

but very hard for me to believe. If it's a lie it's almost a believable one, since yeah the Pork hammer was crazy so it's conceivably possible. I feel like there's no way ABR was actually planning on unvoting. Had Pork not came and hammered, ABR claims he was just about to unvote

He asked for "Final Reads?" right as UT expressed the opinion we should lynch Auro right here right now. His reaction to the hammer was that it was "premature" and he "wasn't impressed", that's all. Then he accuses Auro of not trying hard enough. When i call him out for that, he changes the story and says "Well Auro started fighting and I was going to unvote but then Porkens botched it". If it is indeed a lie, it's believable because it's based somewhat in reality (Yeah Porks was unexpected). But i don't buy it at all

[Morning Tweet]

It's neat how Auro is just kinda shitposting and complaining about getting voted instead of providing final reads or arguments or whatever

I guess why stop now

Pedit: I dunno porky I'm probably agreeing with the person I quoted who is correcting someone else for misrepresenting recent events but who's to say really

he's provided final reads is going over a theory about scum pushing ABR

I also am enjoying his company before he passes away

[Morning Tweet]

I can get behind that MT vote, too. I just think her calling Porkens obvtown along with his push onto an ABR counterwagon is suspect AF.

Personally I thought the half-defend Auro, half-not townread him thing was a much better point against me. I still think Pork is town

Spoiler: @VP

It seems like a well thought out and researched case. The only bit I find is actually a great point against me is the posturing on Auro, though. I can see myself taking a stance like that towards a partner as scum. However, the Porkens read, my failure to scumread, and the wagon composition comment I would dispute are not scummy. And I can try to explain why i approached Auro how i did

Defending Auro while also not really town reading him + doing a little play in twilight does makes a lot of sense for scum!me. I don't really recall saying "Auro wouldn't play like this" stuff, but I definitely remember a lot of "That really isn't AI for Auro". Although in hindsight the vote move to farside was a pretty decent point, dodging having to explain his reason for joining the VP wagon and getting his own niche he could stay in. I agree I missed the target although I truthfully wasn't townreading him until his final moment reactions where I was very tempted to try and defend him. A VT claim! ugh

I thought Pork was pretty townie from his early role PM comment to the very "acute" reaction to the Auro wagon but then again I also thought Auro's final moments were townie for him so oops

Page 19 I probably reached that conclusion from the role PM comment alone -- All players who have a revelation are town except one, from my understanding. I did not realize that scum could all just fake having revelations so that was a bit dumb by me. So later on I realized that Reck isn't confirmed town from the revelation but I still think up til now that Pork is very town from how early he claimed it and the sort of offhand way he claimed it. I sense that might be a point of contention today

Again agree I was pretty much defending Auro without TRing. My reason being i related to a lot of the stuff he was getting flak for, like joking excessively, not having scumreads. There was also stuff like him posting wayyy too much and getting in long WIFOM or mechanical arguments -- I have seen him do that consistently in other games. However ironically i couldn't form a townread on him because while I didn't think it was scum indictative, it wasn't towny either

I can confirm I struggle really hard to scumread D1 quite a lot, you just checked a game where something very interesting happened during RVS, a player was put to L-1 and nearly hammered immediately. I've been getting better at it I suppose, but this game isn't going so well in that department for me. To be honest I kind of underestimated myself, recently I have been getting scumreads more. Here's an example if you like though

I don't get what you mean with regards to wagon composition. If I townread a large majority of a wagon, then I like the wagon composition. It doesn't really tie into if I have scumreads or not. Albert B. Rampage, iamausername*, Untrod Tripod*, farside22, Llamarble*, Hoopla* were voting for you -- I believe I had the asterisked ones townleaned at the time

And finally! My twilight failure. I don't see what scum motivation there is for continuing to act town until the end rather than just not talking, unless perhaps he thought one of his partners would townspew off of it. That or he just felt like trolling which is very plausible. I doubt I could have faked that twilight reaction but maybe I guess. In any case a fair analysis overall there

I didn't get a reread in during the night phase. I woke up the morning after the lynch, checked my phone, and got greeted by "Auro was scum you dumb fuck". So now not only am I probably gonna play from behind D2 but also any reads I was making during that time were pretty worthless. I was getting kinda into it too end of day so had Auro flipped town i would've been pretty excited to find his killers. It, uhh, didn't happen

But enough complaining about that though. I'll try to be better today, I also get the feeling it'll be easier since I have strong feelings about at least one controversial player-- Pork. I get the argument that his rage felt extremely over the top and potentially faked. I struggle to see the scum motivation from such a blatant counterwagon that was never going to actually work. I can believe that he truthfully believed in it far easier than i can believe scum!Pork thought that was going to help scum somehow. If that makes sense.

If his scum plan was seriously "Be as blatantly scummy as possible, make the most obvious counterwagon in existence and give the only reasoning as 'ABR switched wagons', and stage blowing a fucking vein over it" then i could possibly go insane. I can easily see town Pork thinking he's onto something, blowing a fuse over it then hammering Auro out of bitterness, though.

Is this just too scummy to be scum? God damn it. He actually pulled too scummy to be scum out in a game of ours recently, but in a WAY more minor way. Check here. Basically he was taking on pressure and his first response was "Oh my god it's not me guys" and he voted for the highest counterwagon which he hadn't expressed any scumread towards. This.. worked out for him. I'd call that a 4/10 whereas this is like a fucking 9/10 on the scales but it is something that popped into my head just then.

If Pork is scum here, that'd mean he actually faked 50. Is that even possible?

[Morning Tweet]

Go ahead, the bit of information that I received is one of you or farside are scum. I think it's you. So no, my vote isn't moving and you shouldn't be been so obvscum yesterday with your reactionary stances.

VOTE: Porkens

Also, Starbuck is confirmed town if no fuckery in play. No way scum comes out D2 and 50/50s their own life after losing a teammate D1

What do you mean by 50/50s their own life?

[Morning Tweet]

If Pork is scum here, that'd mean he actually faked 50. Is that even possible?

1) A Revelation. Some players begin the game with additional information about the game setup.

All but one of these players are Town-aligned.

Players that have additional information are not considered power roles and will not flip differently from how they otherwise would.

It would be a helluva gambit, but I don't necessarily think he gambited. I think he's the non-town aligned player.

Ah, I suppose you're right he would claim it that way regardless of alignment. It's also technically feasible a scum player informed the rest of the scumteam how to fake claim revelations

I was thinking a town member knowing a 50/50 already would be reeaally strong (and much more if it were two town members!). I also had a thought recently that for scum to win, they probably need to fake revelations since most revelations come from town.

VP makes a decent point that this is a bad play by scum!Starbuck since they already lost a team member, though. I was kinda thinking maybe it was feasible since that's two free mislynches if we follow her but even then it seems unlikely.

[Morning Tweet]

Pork what the fuck

[Morning Tweet]

I'm not mad i'm just.. in awe a little bit

I sort of read it and am sort of just buying whatever it is that made you act that way yesterday because anything will make way more sense to me than you doing it to help scum somehow

[Morning Tweet]

for the record, before Starbuck dropped her revelation, i was thinking a lynchpool of {Blair, Puppy, Morning Tweet, iamausername} was a very reasonable way for the day to go, following yesterday's events, with Blair being the choice from that pool that i'd be backing. i reread overnight in light of Auro's flip, and Blair very much comes off as scum expecting the day to drift inexorably to a VP Baltar lynch and panicking when ABR pulled the rug out from under her.

why blair? if blair was scum she could have done a lot more to push vpb instead of passively sitting by, do you think blair is the kind of person who would let a scummate die by passively sitting by? i kinda want to meet this alternate reality blair, she sounds nice

I believe the working theory on Blair is that she expected the VP lynch to go through, or at the very least wouldn't have expected the Auro lynch to go off like that. If she believed that, then she wouldn't need to get VP's blood on her hands. You seem to be missing that part

1102/1138 are good crumbs by Starbuck i think. I believe it was always her plan to reveal this, at least with regards to Pork

I have no revelation. 4 town is two mislynches and two nightkills.

what the heck was the role PM comment earlier then?! Oh. Nevermind.

Very interested in hearing from MT and Blair.

hi VP!! (>ω<)

[Morning Tweet]

hi VP!! (>ω<)

Since you believe Starbuck, who do you prefer lynching today, Porkens or Farside?

If Pork is scum I'll snap for good

Farside I lightly town leaned early yesterday but I snap reacted to her unfairness towards Auro by putting her down a tier and I just kept her in my PoE throughout. Kinda awkward

there's a couple things i'm thinking about, Hoopla I think brought up that if Starbuck makes this play as scum, she gets 2 mislynches and 3 nightkills in exchange for her life (assuming she can pull off lynching both). I believe her crumbs, though and I'm taking others' words for her attempting to sort farside atm which would mean she'd have to have planned out this play not just from end of day yesterday, but from the

very start

. Which is impossible for scum, surely

ideally i'd like to reread farside and Starbuck before voting but it hasnt happened yet

[Morning Tweet]

having a 50/50 on scum seemed kinda overpowered which was the only thing holding me back from just voting farside immediately, i was gonna review starbuck/farside or something idk but i was never gonna vote Pork at least

i have VP/Starbuck/UT/Hoopla/Reck/Gamma as town -- then i added Blair/Green/AGar as leantown -- leaving Puppy, username, and Kmd. and i also townleaned Kmd D1

So pretty much nothing new from who is already suspected. it almost goes without saying these reads at all

i tried to respond to VP's case as best i could yesterday. Not having scumreads is kinda normal, I didn't really townread Auro so much as wanted to defend the parts of his case that were decidedly NAI, and farside has been in my PoE past early d1 and i'd have never lynched pork before her etc etc

I apologize for not really showing up past D1. there are a bunch of factors that added up to me not contributing as much as i'd have liked.

I'm going to be unavailable tomorrow so

VLA till Sunday

. Can respond for a little bit tonight

VOTE: iamausername

[Morning Tweet]

having a 50/50 on scum seemed kinda overpowered which was the only thing holding me back from just voting farside immediately, i was gonna review starbuck/farside or something idk but i was never gonna vote Pork at least

i have VP/Starbuck/UT/Hoopla/Reck/Gamma as town -- then i added Blair/Green/AGar as leantown -- leaving Puppy, username, and Kmd. and i also townleaned Kmd D1

So pretty much nothing new from who is already suspected. it almost goes without saying these reads at all

i tried to respond to VP's case as best i could yesterday. Not having scumreads is kinda normal, I didn't really townread Auro so much as wanted to defend the parts of his case that were decidedly NAI, and farside has been in my PoE past early d1 and i'd have never lynched pork before her etc etc

I apologize for not really showing up past D1. there are a bunch of factors that added up to me not contributing as much as i'd have liked.

I'm going to be unavailable tomorrow so

VLA till Sunday

. Can respond for a little bit tonight

VOTE: iamausername

Anything in particular putting username over the top of the other 2? Though details about how you feel about all 3 of em would be nice too

Username has the most obvious pretending-to-want-to-lynch-Auro-but-actually lynching-VP vote pattern D1 I suppose. As much as I hate to admit it, it's decently easy for me to make big townready posts like 396 as scum. And those were his biggest contributions i can remember

His positioning on Puppy though makes me wonder if the solve could really be both of them. Don't really think so-- username has 20 posts he has probably 25% of them casting suspicion on Puppy, whether that be directly 766/822 or just by putting him at the extreme bottom of readslists (1082). I don't think they're scum together

.

Actually I had Puppy dip into my townleans a couple times but unsure if for any reason in particular. OH 1400 i lean comes from town!Puppy actually-- I think he was wrong about putting investigatives on them but the fact he felt it was so obvious we should do that (even though i dont think it really makes sense) makes me think he didn't think that through too much. Whereas if he's scum I feel it'd be more likely he'd think twice before dictating PRs

Oh this was supposed to be about scumreading Puppy. Kinda just PoE. but now i'm talking myself out. I didn't realize he joined the ABR counterwagon, also feel there's townpoints for that

.

Kmd had takes I liked very early D1, i remember his comment on the green crayons wagon as a specific example. I also love the Hoopla/Puppy scum banter theory. Beyond that I dont have a lot of reasons though, and I can acknowledge that agreeing with someone doesn't make them town

.

so in conclusion there should be scum in these 3 based on the massive townpool and it's prolly username since i've come up with reasons for the others being town while looking through their isos. Sort of think a red flip from username makes Puppy town as well

there's also a large chance then that the last scum is hiding in the townreads which is unfortunate for me in that case

[Morning Tweet]

i tried to respond to VP's case as best i could yesterday. Not having scumreads is kinda normal, I didn't really townread Auro so much as wanted to defend the parts of his case that were decidedly NAI, and farside has been in my PoE past early d1 and i'd have never lynched pork before her etc etc

I gotta say

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate this defense

me too kind of. i think if I were buddies with Auro, defending the parts of his case that are incorrect makes a lot of sense since I could do it truthfully. Unfortunately im not and it just sort of went that way and there's no good reason to townread me this game

if you hate the tldr with this much emphasis, i can't imagine how much pain the full version yesterday must have brought -- my apologies

[Morning Tweet]

I KNOW THIS ISN'T ACTUALLY A TELL but more than once CLAP has started posts with "to be honest" which i still believe may be a subliminal scum thing but don't weigh that really bc it's a dumb theory im convinced to prove one day

i go out of my way to not say this as scum sometimes because i know it inevitably gets brought up at least once per game. whereas it's just a normal part of my vocabulary i wouldnt think about as town

that's not intended as a debunk to your case i just had to say it

I think your points about a lot of Puppys early game being substanceless are fair enough. I can confirm soft defending Auro doesn't make one scum by default -- it seems to be a trend among the newer players actually doesnt it

the point about puppy knowing there are 4 scum since he said "2/4 in this group are scum" seems like a stretch to me. I have been assuming there were 4 scum all game anyway. Although i didn't really consider 3p

And the swap to ABR almost looks good to me. kinda. Probably in a WIFOMy way i guess -- it seems like a bad move to do as scum, something that is so blatantly obviously going to get pointed out later in the game (even had Auro not been lynched that day). It felt like Auro was going to die eventually, going out of your way to try and save him in a really obvious manner is just terrible

I think your point about Puppy wanting everyone to know he knew VP was always town is actually a really good one. It seemed unnecessary to point out that VP is town (1331), it seemed pretty obvious by that point, he could potentially have been trying to highlight he knew it all along. I still could explain this by town!Puppy possibly not realizing we'd all be on the same page there, but it is suspicious for sure

i really do not think Puppy was trying to bait us into wasting investigatives in 1400. That just seems like a terrible idea as scum, if he'd have thought twice (which i'd think he'd do as scum), he could have easily thought better of that request. rather it feels like town making a mistake to me (since he described it as so obvious)

[Morning Tweet]

ah. carry on then

you don't suppose you could summon up this kind of energy to rustle up some scum do you?

Man i wish. All i could see doing at this very moment is just unintentionally plagiarizing points on username or just calling Puppy/Kmd a PoE since i find better reasons for the rest of the players to be town

i haven't reevaluated the bottom half of the town leans though. ill make that my homework then cause thats pretty much why the list of suspects is so small

[Morning Tweet]

@Starbucks saying "at least i took a stance"

i thought my stance on Pork vs. farside would be pretty clear considering Pork was my highest tr.

@Gamma asking about the VP vote

VP and auro were both non townreads. they're the only two wagons. ABR was forcing votes. i found part of Auros case to be nai, and i hadnt looked deep into the rest of it probably as i made the vote. I just sheeped the VP wagon really because i didnt have too much of a preference at that time

hae i missed any lingering questions?

[Morning Tweet]

i gave the small amount of thoughts I had on them yesterday. they deserve scrutiny but it's mostly already coming from other better players. My current thought is that its username>Puppy>Kmd in chances of being scum, with username/Puppy not being a possible team. think it's probable the 4th scum is outside them. the best hidden scum player on the team, probably someone who plays scum well but does not have a revelation (Except perhaps Hooplas revelation could be from scum)

see I was thinking scum needs to fake revelations to win the game since we can clear several players based off of them AND get scum hunting info from them. they need to disrupt that by faking some revelations surely. But either scum wasnt bold enough to do it or they just didnt think of that because Pork/Reck/stsrbuck arent scum and I dont think hoopla is either but for her i think its at least possible

[Morning Tweet]

That's L-2 i think, 2 more 2 more

@Starbuck I guess i didnt make it clear enough towards end of d2. I had no intention of voting Pork and the only reason id vote anyone else would be if Starbucks claim were found to be faulty somehow. I didnt vote for farside immediately cause i wanted to actually reread and feel like i wasnt just blindly sleeping i guess. That never happened though.

Sucks that my voting pattern is the strongest lead town has rn but i guess that's how it rolls sometimes. Had i been energized enough to solve, would that have helped? Probably. 100% my bad for not giving my place to someone else during D1 when i realized i wasnt going to get into this like i should. I wanted to hold out until i did

but it didnt happen

[Morning Tweet]

oh i totally forgot farside said that. I still believe Recks. we cant full clear off of revelations because a.) maybe farside wasnt the real scum with one and b.) scum can still fake them anyway. I think the applies to any delayed revelations we might get in the future than it does to the existing ones though

[Morning Tweet]

it

was

really tasty

[Morning Tweet]

I'm sorry, I'll be back later than I thought

UNVOTE:

I'm not comfortable voting username after reading some of his post

I'm a VT with no revelation

[Morning Tweet]

@Gamma hmm the speed of the game is one factor. Another is Auro and I's focus on townread/townblock and kinda early fluff posting was received poorly (Which is fair enough but usually how i play D1). And now im just unaavailable to actually reread and analyze well. Pretty shit tier d1 since i never got around to making a scum pool, just a bunch of people i wouldnt vote and seeing who in the PoE is pushed. Which ive done before to some degrees of success I guess but I should've done more scumreading in this particular game. Just didnt come to me

[Morning Tweet]

You're ignoring that i could have potentially thought of that. it's not really a stretch for me to think "Ha they'll never think we'll do the same thing thrice". Seems like something not very important to argue about

i enjoy the irony that if i were given a power role i might have been fucked though

[Morning Tweet]

You know what?

VOTE: Albert B. Rampage

Porkens isn't the hero we deserve, but he's the hero we need right now.

all right, blair makes me brave, i don't want to keep holding my vote, ill try this wagon

VOTE: albert b rampage

These really helped me by the way, thanks. And thanks to MT for checking in too.

<3