Newbie 2038: Elements [Game Over]

[Egix96]

VOTE: 72offsuit

No need to spam the thread, we can already see you're here!

[Egix96]

Why?

(...)

to spam the thread?

Not only is it annoying, but perhaps more importantly, it wastes thread space and is generally just bad forum etiquette.

VOTE: 72offsuit

No need to spam the thread, we can already see you're here!

Y and W effectively function as vowels in Polish.

Close.

For everyone, what's your experience with mafia?

*Checks own page quickly*

I count about 40 games played on MS. That doesn't include any from other sites though.

[Egix96]

Why?

(...)

to spam the thread?

Not only is it annoying, but perhaps more importantly, it wastes thread space and is generally just bad forum etiquette.

VOTE: 72offsuit

No need to spam the thread, we can already see you're here!

Y and W effectively function as vowels in Polish.

Close.

For everyone, what's your experience with mafia?

*Checks own page quickly*

I count about 40 games played on MS. That doesn't include any from other sites though.

Egix. I've played with you before. Do you actually think I'm a spammer?

No, I don't remember you making needless posts in our prior games.

I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but what does the text below the username mean?
Like it says
[username]
Mafia Scum

Indication of how many posts someone has.

[Egix96]

I voted c4 because I didn't necessary like his tone as other people have said. I am considering voting 72 since he seems to be quite defensive. Can someone tell me if that is more scummy?

Well, do

you

think it is? I feel like you're more concerned with doing the "right" thing than just doing what you feel like.

I voted c4 because I didn't necessary like his tone as other people have said. I am considering voting 72 since he seems to be quite defensive. Can someone tell me if that is more scummy?

Depends on the player, but it's bait to align based on someone being defensive this early imo. Do you think Mizzy pushing 72 to being defensive is towny then?

What do you mean by "bait to align"?

[Egix96]

I voted c4 because I didn't necessary like his tone as other people have said. I am considering voting 72 since he seems to be quite defensive. Can someone tell me if that is more scummy?

You didn't say that though. Your reasoning could totally be read as "this is my rvs vote, I only just figured out how to do it."

It totally was an RVS vote, but the thing that tipped me towards c4 was the reason i stated before. When choosing someone to vote, I don't actually use a random generator or something.

I am sorely tempted to vote Mizzy but I feel like they are more town.

UNVOTE: c4
VOTE: AGamblingPig
This is another RVS vote. Most of the other players I feel are somewhat towny.

I'm confused by this statement - what's tempting you to vote her?

[Egix96]

cyl -- Looks like he's genuinely trying to figure out the game.

How so? I'm not really getting the same impression.

[Egix96]

muh316 -- hmmm

hmmm

Do you have any other thoughts yet?

[Egix96]

VOTE: muh

Lights are on but no one's home?

[Egix96]

VOTE: muh

Lights are on but no one's home?

2 posts in a row you're asking more from muh but you haven't provided anything of value so far, are you posting just for the sake of posting?

That specific post was, yes, though that's only because there wasn't anything I found noteworthy since my previous post.
Now that my MU game has ended, I should be able to get into this one more.

[Egix96]

VOTE: muh

Lights are on but no one's home?

2 posts in a row you're asking more from muh but you haven't provided anything of value so far, are you posting just for the sake of posting?

That specific post was, yes, though that's only because there wasn't anything I found noteworthy since my previous post.
Now that my MU game has ended, I should be able to get into this one more.

Join me on the Mizzy wagon and let the "noteworthy" posts sally forth.

Why should I? Their posts seem fine from a quick skim, and they do seem a bit more proactive than in the Dog Show game (they were scum there).

[Egix96]

Hey,

Just going to give my thoughts as I read through the thread. Wont be much of interest in there but should kinda be as if I'd been playing the game from the start, and give you questions to ask me.

Spoiler:

I've got no problem with 72's opening. Reading some of their games they seem to play with this sort of stream of conciousness style. I haven't got a problem with it.

Also don't really have a problem with C4's vote or their response to questions. "It's RVS" is a valid reason and their "Not particularly" response is tonally town for me.

Regarding Mizzy's questions in #24, I've got next to no experience. Just finished my first newbie game and it didn't go well. I threw. Town lost. Wouldn't recommend reading.

Mizzy's questioning of C4 on page2 reads as town and then the back and forth with hunter that occurs later on in page2 reads as town for both of them.

Cylstar's vote on C4 feels a little off. Piggy backing off of what hunter said rather than giving a reason of their own.

72's #65 about Mizzy's double post feels weak to me. Same for the "It's LAMISTy" reasoning too.

Hunter's #84 reads is good. Follow up of what they were previously questioning Mizzy over. Questioning a town read off very little. I disagree with what they're saying (I was getting slight town vibes from it too) but I like that they said it.

Dislike of 72's #94. Perhaps it is something they've learnt from their experience with the game, but I don't thnk considering that an action could be scum trying to appear town is AI.

Cylstar's #95 is something I want to mention, just because I don't think anyone else did. Tone (as in being rude or whatever) isn't AI, I learnt that the hard way in my last game. Them asking if 72 being defensive is scummy isn't AI for me. Defintiely them being inexperienced and unsure of what is good and bad (think this due to them also not knowing how to vote at the start of the game).

#98 by AGamblingPig is a safe vote. Mizzy had already said they wanted to vote my predecessor and rather than weigh in on anything being said they just threw out the vote and dipped for a while.

Mizzy's #102 in response to 72's 94 mirros my reasoning so town cred there. #103 isn't something I agree with (them voting cyl off their #95) but disagreeing != scum.

Cyl's #104 is interesting since they said in their last post they were considering 72. Mizzy said it was scummy to do that and they changed my mind. This reaction could come from a new player of either alignment. Cyl saying they want to vote mizzy in the same post does give me good town vibes. Resisting the urge to OMGUS as a new player because they think Mizzy is town even though they're catching heat from them.

#111 from C4 is a bit weird. Seems a little OMGUSy but their reasoning for point 2 is similar to mine so town vibes here I think. Their #112 is a bit short on actual content. Pretty much just gives reasoning on Mizzy and says not much about the rest. Hard disagree with their assessment of Egix or Mizzy being "good newbie-stimulating SE's".

#113 by AGamblingPig is also pretty safe once again. I'd like to see something more substantial from them.

#114 from muh is yikes. This far into the day and all they can say is "hmmm". There's defintiely things to weigh in on. Hope there's more from them in the next few pages.

#119 from hunterr is weird. Townlock on C4 from a post that 1) disagrees with their own thoughts and 2) isn't super AI in any way.

#121 further makes me think cyl is pretty town. Empathy for a person as reason not to vote them. Don't think I see this reason get thrown out by scum.

#122 Still nothing interesting from AGamblingPig.

#123 from 72. Pretty safe option to prod muh to post something. I don't disagree, but why not mention some of the stuff that was just said. Further prodding of inactives in #126. Safe posting again. Not necessarily AI but, again, why not interact with the others too?

I like #128 from Mizzy. Mentioned them a lot haven't I? In fairness they are very active and have said interesting things. Again, disagree with their views on Cyl but like the way they're trying to go about the day. #131 from Mizzy is decent too. Called out a weird play from hunterr that I didn't catch.

#135 by C4 is decent. I don't trust SE's so being cautious of them is good

#137 from muh is decent. Like them calling out Egix for also not doing much in the game. Like them calling out 72 for their question about hunterr, it seemed to come from nowhere and have no reason for it being asked. Would still have like muh316 to answer it, just to finally get some of their thoughts out into the game. Not much harm in answering.

#140 by 72 is actually a bit towny. Doubling down on the questioning and mentioing the dodge.

Hunterr's #141 t0 #144 is... okay. They give valid reasons for the Cyl read, just not ones I agree with. Mentions 72's questions, although it is after muh has already done so.

#145 doesn't feel town to me. Surely answering questions would be helpful and at this stage of the game, I don't see why not to answer.

#72's #155 is good imo. Calls out muh not answering the question in a much better way than I ever could.

I disagree with your thoughts re: cyl, but on the whole I'm liking this entrance

[Egix96]

Sorry for post spam, but when I reply I find it easier to manage one reply at a time.

My reads in no particular order

Neutral:
Everyone not listed below

Leaning Scum:
72OffSuit - For constantly nagging me
Egix - For lurking just as much as I am but still remaining mostly under the radar
Cylstar - Scum vibes from the Mizzy buddying. Also just as inactive as I am but not getting the same treatment as me.

I would vote 72 because OMGUS. But that won't gain much traction anyway, so I'll UNVOTE: C4and VOTE: Cylstar

This just sounds to me like you are keen to vote whoever you think will get wagoned

I was entertaining the idea of a cyl/muh team but this is making me doubt that.

[Egix96]

Spoiler:

Just finished my first newbie game and it didn't go well. I threw. Town lost. Wouldn't recommend reading.

I skimmed it because someone I know was in it. You were okay.

Hunter's #84 reads is good. Follow up of what they were previously questioning Mizzy over. Questioning a town read off very little.

I mean, hunterr ended up townreading the same player off of very little as well, so I'm not sure about this one.

Cylstar's #95 is something I want to mention, just because I don't think anyone else did. Tone (as in being rude or whatever) isn't AI, I learnt that the hard way in my last game.

I wouldn't dismiss tone entirely, and there are some mad geniuses who can solve games off of tone, but there's no guidebook to tonereads.

Mizzy's #102 in response to 72's 94 mirros my reasoning so town cred there. #103 isn't something I agree with (them voting cyl off their #95) but disagreeing != scum.

Mindmeld reads ew

#111 from C4 is a bit weird. Seems a little OMGUSy but their reasoning for point 2 is similar to mine so town vibes here I think.

Not really seeing how it was OMGUS if Mizzy's post wasn't about me.

#119 from hunterr is weird. Townlock on C4 from a post that 1) disagrees with their own thoughts and 2) isn't super AI in any way.

Well you have plenty examples within this post of townreading posts you disagree with so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#135 by C4 is decent. I don't trust SE's so being cautious of them is good

Wonder why lol

What's so bad about mindmeld reads?

[Egix96]

I've been in bed with a headache most of today and I'm busy the next 4 hours so I've only really skimmed. I'll try and catch up before bed depending on how tired I feel. This is the stuff that stood out to me on a skim.


Based on the vote count at the top of the page (I know it's changed since), I would be very surprised if all 4 of those 2-vote wagons are on town. Scum have 4 different players to pick from there and it feels odd to me that they'd pick in a way that produces that split. It also makes JDye's decision note to vote his lowest read feel like it's less scummy unless muh-JDye is exactly the team. It's SO easy for scum to vote there, as a replacement coming in with new perspectives onto a player the momentum of the day is turning against. Not that I like the no voting, especially when it's leaving the old vote instead of an actual unvote.

Activity isn't necessarily an alignment tell. For Egix at least I can say I've seen them be low activity as town, and in a mish mash game I ran as a scum role that is specifically trying to look as town as possible (instead of town enough to get someone else elimmed). I might have read a game he was in as scum, but I don't remember one and I've definitely not been involved in one.

@muh - I wasn't talking about anyone specifically with my question about scum intent for the way you've lurked, just the general feel from the game as a whole turning in your direction. You were a good policy elim if that activity level continued but a policy elim in general is a last resort or a "oh god I don't want this in ELo".

My thoughts were people seemed to be scum reading you for it, and if you are strategically lurking as scum (as opposed to, y'know, busy) and you have a choice to pull yourself up when you get pressured, you do. You have to be genuinely busy or very confident in being able to pull off TSTBS otherwise.

However, no one feels town enough to you to even give a slight lean?

@AGamblingPig - that's a weird way to phrase something about a group of 3 you are included in. Why do you think that?

I'm a lowposter in general, really. But yeah, in the Secret H game I had no idea what to say most of the time :/

[Egix96]

I disagree with your thoughts re: cyl

What are your thoughts on her then?

To cover each of your points on her in turn:

"Cylstar's vote on C4 feels a little off. Piggy backing off of what hunter said rather than giving a reason of their own."
This I agree with actually, I had forgotten you had written it part-way through reading your post since it was so long

"Cylstar's #95 is something I want to mention, just because I don't think anyone else did. Tone (as in being rude or whatever) isn't AI, I learnt that the hard way in my last game. Them asking if 72 being defensive is scummy isn't AI for me. Defintiely them being inexperienced and unsure of what is good and bad (think this due to them also not knowing how to vote at the start of the game)."
Personally, I think that being unsure shows a lack of confidence that I would associate more with newbie scum than newbie town.

"Cyl's #104 is interesting since they said in their last post they were considering 72. Mizzy said it was scummy to do that and they changed my mind. This reaction could come from a new player of either alignment. Cyl saying they want to vote mizzy in the same post does give me good town vibes. Resisting the urge to OMGUS as a new player because they think Mizzy is town even though they're catching heat from them."
While I agree that cyl's vote on AGP shows a lack of conviction compared to her previous post, though I disagree that her "resisting the urge to OMGUS" is towny because is suggests to me that she's actively thinking about how to react to things rather than just going by instinct.

"#121 further makes me think cyl is pretty town. Empathy for a person as reason not to vote them. Don't think I see this reason get thrown out by scum."
Personally I think that's just null. The empathy is for a reason which can only be true (assuming good faith, of course) but that simply means she would mention it regardless of alignment.

A couple of questions I would like to ask @cylstar:

- Why is the word "participated" in quote marks in your Mizzy read?

- Why are you reluctant to put muh at E-1? I don't think there would be much risk of a lolhammer.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: cylstar

[Egix96]

Personally, I think that being unsure shows a lack of confidence that I would associate more with newbie scum than newbie town.

(1)

Would newbie scum not also be very aware of appearing to be scummy and not want to do anything to make that happen?

While I agree that cyl's vote on AGP shows a lack of conviction compared to her previous post, though I disagree that her "resisting the urge to OMGUS" is towny because is suggests to me that she's actively thinking about how to react to things rather than just going by instinct.

(2)

At the time I took it as Cyl knowing Mizzy is probably town but also not liking

Personally I think that's just null. The empathy is for a reason which can only be true (assuming good faith, of course) but that simply means she would mention it regardless of alignment.

My thoughts here are that as newb!scum she would try to have some sort of logic for not wanting to vote Mizzy rather than the reason they gave.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: cylstar

(3)

Why not muh? You voted them after the whole question dodge thing. Have their responses seemed particularly towny to you?

1. Perhaps so, but my counterpoint is that I would expect new!town to be more confident and less afraid to crack any eggshells, so to speak.

2. Was this sentence unfinished? I'm not sure what you mean.

3. Technically I voted muh before he actively dodged a question, when he was just afk, but no, I haven't found his recent posting to be particularly towny. It's just that at this point I'd rather vote someone I have actual reasons to suspect that aren't just activity-related.

[Egix96]

But yes, I do think that "cus RVS lol" is a cop-out from c4 and my votes stays on him.

Re Hunter:

Didnt like this post -

any re-affirmation of vote is scummy

. Why the need to re-draw attention to who you are voting? Town doesnt need to holler out and say look at me.
Town needs to present a solid logical case as to why someone is scum and to convince their fellow townies of their case.

I disagree tbh.

This readslist feels like playing nicey-nicey with everyone. Bit of a brown-noser, inoffensive, buddying sort of post. Scummy

This feels a bit over-explainy to me. Scum mindest of guilty consience... know they are guilty ... feel the need to overexplain things that need 0 explaining

I guess I can kinda see the first one if I squint hard enough? I agree with the second one more though.

Updated readslist:

Town +++++++++++++ 72os

Not worth mentioning: cyl,egix

Scumlean: Hunter/safebet, Bipolar/Dye, Mizzy, muh, c4

Scum: GamblingPig

How do you have so many scum leans

Also you have Mizzy as a scum lean yet you imply that they're town in 274, what's up with that?

The fact cylstar is at E-2 and was still sitting on a solo GamblingPig wagon, whom noone really expressed interest in kicking throughout the thread, ie not being survivalistic, alone points towards more likely !towncyl than !scumcyl imo.

Considering that she's only made one post recently, I'd say this is a premature judgement.

[Egix96]

Regarding AGP, the only issue I have with him is that some of his posts (e.g. 161, 284) have weird tone. I actually get town vibes from the last paragraph of 98, and 195 seems more like TSTBS than an actual scumslip.

[Egix96]

Some quick thoughts before I have to leave:
My writing style is always pretty neutral. It might make some of your reads NAI.

I've sort of come to terms with being lynched

and hopefully provided some discussion so there will be more information if I do get lynched.
I had a specific toneread on pig at some point that bothered me, but then I forgot it before I could share it. I guess it's nice that people are voting the same as me now?
Anticipating swinging vote counts, I will say that I will continue voting pig for the foreseeable future.

Not a town attitude. JD makes a good point as well - it's plain opportunism.

[Egix96]

I've spent the better part of two hours looking over the game... It's time for bed...

I really liked what Egix has brought since Sunday afternoon. I'm getting town vibes from him. I really like the fact that he saw the 72off had so many scum leans. I don't get it either. I disagree with his cyl read however mainly because I wouldn't expect cyl to have any instincts as she seems to be brand new to forum Mafia. Maybe I'm off on that point... thoughts Egix?

Cyl - hated her last post... but I still think that it comes from not knowing how to respond than some sort of scumplay. The lurking over the last few days is annoying and I completely understand why people are on her wagon.

I'm hoping to get some clarity on which of the viable wagons is best...

She says she's played IRL mafia. Tbf that's not a format I've played but I'm sure the basic skillset would translate easily.

[Egix96]

Weird that both 72 and Mizzy started leaning towards town!cyl and started FOSing AGamblingPig within a very short amount of time. 72 being opportunistic when it looks like town is going to move in a certain direction?

You comment on my interacting with Mizzy and my vote on GamblingPig, and FoS me,
yet you make ZERO references to my actual case against GamblingPig.

Which basically reveals your mindset is not to solve slots, but rather to secure a miskick.

JD is scum.

This reach lmao

Take big issue with Egix and Mizzy forgetting this is a newbie game (re: cyl).

The real stretch is in his very next post...

As for your second point, I'm sorry, but there does come a point at which you can't just give someone a pass for being new. Still have to find scum somewhere, you know?

[Egix96]

@egix I get having a read and not wanting to move off it... But its time to get moving...cyl's wagon isn't going anywhere today. Who's it going to be?

VOTE: muh316

E-1

I still feel like AGP is probably town here.

[Egix96]

I'm also leaning scum for egix, especially because of his last post.

I think we should look off the wagon, and maybe 72. I haven't made up my mind for 72 yet. I find muh to be sort of town now.

What about my last post?

[Egix96]

I might not post for the rest of the day, so:
Regarding my supposed experience, irl mafia has a lot of differences. for one, people don't have records of everything people say, and the 'loud' people tend to dominate the conversation. I've only really played these games with people I know pretty well. I also never said I was good at irl mafia. Scumhunting is even harder and my only strategy as mafia is to lurk.

72 being so accusatory is weird, but I don't know what to attribute it to. But it's good how they are trying to raise activity levels, I guess

I definitely felt like people were voting muh for only one small reason (their evading the question) which made me suspect people were jumping on the 'easy' wagon. This sort of reasoning will probably lead me to WIFOM but...
I've got to go back and reread what made mizzy and 72 vote Pig

cyl, scum arent going to put their hand up and admit they r scum.

The best way to find scum is to pressure and accuse. If you like their response, perhaps your intitial read is wrong, and they are in fact town.
Perhaps they become nervous, make a few posts that are suggestive of a scum mindest - Survivalism, inconsistency.

Furthermore, by pushing someone, you force others to take a stance on the player pushing, as well as the player being pushed.
This creates further alignment indicative behaviour. Does player X join the wagon? Defend the player being pushed? Scumread the player pushing?

No offence, but if we all shrug and say, hmm that behaviour is weird, but i dont know what it means, town gets nowhere.

If I was scum I would sit back and just be middle of the road - make a light push, without ruffling any feathers.
There is literally ZERO incentive for !Scumme to be active in this game.

Sure, you can take this with a grain of salt, and it could be wifom yadda yadda yadda.
But that;s just how it is. 15 pages of mostly apathy.

She isn't really calling you scum though, so I don't get why you're flipping out here.

[Egix96]

VOTE: cylstar

Let's try this again, shall we?
Her coming in with such a noncommittal post in 340 gives me the impression that she stopped trying as soon as she thought she wasn't going to survive the game.

FoSes:

c4e5 - it's really bugging me that he asked muh to claim prematurely, because it seems like rolefishing.

72off - his push on JDye felt ungenuine because I think that JD's catchup was fairly obvtown and it seemed like 72 was specifically trying to sow dissent - going in with the preconceived notion that JD "must" be scum rather than actually aiming to sort him.

[Egix96]

Egix is the sort of player I find super frustrating to read. I know this is in his town range from another game, I know that he gets pressure for it (up to and including leading wagon - can't remember if he got miselimed that game) as town and considering 40ish games played probably isn't changing any time soon. I also understand why he get seen as scummy and that scum can benefit from his playstyle. I guess he's just a good case of why what you are looking for with scumhunting is intent.

Don't really have any good ideas though, just frustration

I was mislim'd, yes... the one that ended the game, in fact

More on topic...

You and JD seem to be growing more suspicious of cyl, so why not join me?

[Egix96]

Also, something that is bugging me but I dunno how to turn into scumhunting. From other town perspectives I should be one of the grosser votes on Pig. Middle is often where scum join from a VCA perspective, I showed some interest in moving off cyl cos it was an early vote intended to sort, but I didn't show my working on Pig before joining. I know I'm struggling to keep up with the game, was having some icky thoughts about Pig that I hadn't voiced super well and liked 72s case but you lot don't.

If I understand correctly, you want us to scumread you for that? This post feels very LAMIST to me.

It's a bit self-aware, but I doubt it's something that scum would be so open about.

[Egix96]

Egix is the sort of player I find super frustrating to read. I know this is in his town range from another game, I know that he gets pressure for it (up to and including leading wagon - can't remember if he got miselimed that game) as town and considering 40ish games played probably isn't changing any time soon. I also understand why he get seen as scummy and that scum can benefit from his playstyle. I guess he's just a good case of why what you are looking for with scumhunting is intent.

Don't really have any good ideas though, just frustration

Yes, have personally benefitted as scum previosuuly from !townegix.

Where? Iirc, in that other Newbie game you didn't replace in until after I was already dead.

There is also the Normal game where I was friendly neighbour but I doubt that one's relevant.

[Egix96]

Muh
Low-hanging fruit town

123 - On re-read of the game, I think !scumMuh would try to appease town questioning him, rather than refuse.
His uncooperative attitude reminds me of Worcestshire in Newbie 2015.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83462&user_select[]=34514

His refusal to answer in 137 reads like suspicious, guarded town.

Muh's reposting of the same question towards me twice

The severe inactivity at end of day also SCREAMS town vs town wagons,
whereby scum doesnt have to make moves as they already have a miskick secured

More likely to be scum than cyl, though unlikely.

Also this last line is a big thonk.

[Egix96]

Okay time to switch gears... This game is so dead... Muh you're still on my scumlist...

Muh
Low-hanging fruit town

123 - On re-read of the game, I think !scumMuh would try to appease town questioning him, rather than refuse.
His uncooperative attitude reminds me of Worcestshire in Newbie 2015.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83462&user_select[]=34514

His refusal to answer in 137 reads like suspicious, guarded town.

Muh's reposting of the same question towards me twice

The severe inactivity at end of day also SCREAMS town vs town wagons,
whereby scum doesnt have to make moves as they already have a miskick secured

More likely to be scum than cyl, though unlikely.

Also this last line is a big thonk.

@egix... Tell me more...72 never left my scumlist. Lets discuss.

72off - his push on JDye felt ungenuine because I think that JD's catchup was fairly obvtown and it seemed like 72 was specifically trying to sow dissent - going in with the preconceived notion that JD "must" be scum rather than actually aiming to sort him.

Do you think this push was scum!72 and if so, why not push 72? That's a wagon I can get on. I'm not interested in a cyl push today.

The thonk is because a) I really don't see how anyone could think that muh has less town equity than cyl, and b) how he phrases it in terms of "more likely to be scum" when he's talking about them being town.

That kind of push is something I don't think I've seen 72 do before as either alignment. I'm just seeing it in a similar way to how JD is.

I could switch, but I am finding it curious that you're not interested in pushing cyl.

[Egix96]

Safebet is my most confident town read. I'd need to reconsider at endgame but he just sounds like he's putting lots of thought in to this game

72 I think is probably town.

I don't think he needs to effort this much as scum

JDye sounds nice but I'm not as confident there. I think the way he joined the game is hard to do as scum but I need to iso and reread 72s case
s
I know I can't read players like Egix. I've found him a bit buddyish in the degree he's defended me but there's enough icky slots this game I'd prefer not to vote there today. If he is scum I would be surprised if his 3 scum reads is a legit rule of 3.

Cyl is the best policy elim as LHF but LHF tends to be town +rand and her apathy seems genuine

Nothing has particularly stood out to me about muh but his thoughts feel shallow and icky as the game progresses. Kinda uncomfortable with scum!muh not voting or efforting around deadline

I need to do another read here but my feelings about the slot are getting worse over the game. In particular he feels like someone trying to manipulate the game state and like he knows cyl's alignment and is trying to benefit from it. I don't think he's ever actually explained why cyl is town, just said its obvious and the people who don't see it are bad for not seeing it.


I guess this is more a where I want to vote list than a reads list. I would not be surprised to find out one scum is more in the middle here. Honestly my doubts about cyl and muh should make me less happy to vote there but I'm scared of how a final x situation handles having them around.

Perhaps he doesn't "need" to, but I know he is capable of it and I would imagine he would do it just because he can.

[Egix96]

Cyl and Muh are

light townleans

who have

contributed next to nothing to this game.

Muh is scummier than cyl.

Do I smell... an oxymoron?

[Egix96]

@ffery

185: Those were just the two slots that I had had the worst first impression from.

188: Depends on the context, but I usually value mindmelds quite highly.

[Egix96]

I don't have time to examine Spangled's post in detail, but I'm feeling like him calling those posts of mine good when what I'm doing there is fairly standard/human nature is a bit

[Egix96]

"Egix; he posts low, scum or no."

Wait, is this tmi or has Spangled spectated a prior game I was town in??

Disregard my previous comment, the tl;dr clarifies it.

[Egix96]

Okay uh I'm just going to try and read the whole thread from the beginning and comment on it; I'll do it as quickly as possible 'cause a day certainly isn't much time and I imagine I live in a different timezone than the majority of the playerlist.

I did read the first 6 or 7 pages quickly before repping in and the one thing I'm going to say is that I reckon that, from those pages,

Mizzy is probably town

, but I ought to properly catch up and comment and hopefully organise my thoughts.

Oh and hello Egix; sorry I mislynched you that one time.

That was all?

And now I'm just confused re: last part. If you're talking about 1956 I was actually scum there

[Egix96]

Egix, don't think Spangled is happening, where you at between muh, 72 and fferyllt?

VOTE: 72offsuit

Ffery is the lhf that 72 is pushing in an effort to save himself. I'm not interested in yeeting muh any more.

[Egix96]

Wow. Jeez. I'm sorry, fferyllt, I am way too tired to consider your thoughts over the last few pages, or even make a real comment. Actually, the last four or five pages I read but didn't really think about terribly much; I'm tired and most of it is god-awful 72-JD spat. However, for most of the other pages, I read and commented, so here is a catch-up part 2:

Spoiler: catch-up part 2, electric boogaloo

I like 255, I can definitely feel the lack of 'meshedness' so far.

72, you're so jumpy, dude. You seem to build cases out of single posts repeatedly; 266 is one.

And, then, see, right after that 72 went for c4; 276 and 277.

My wagons in order:

72
Muh
Apig

In the meantime let's give folks an even narrower choice.

UNVOTE: 72offsuit VOTE: muh316

Uh these two posts together are really weird. If 72's your highest priority, why switch to muh?

Safebet read muh as neutral but now they're their second favourite elim candidate? What's muh done to move them from neutral to above Pig for an elim? If you think it's 72/muh (don't really think we should be looking at game solves a this point) why not keep your vote on 72?

Fair question...I only have one scum read... I've had my vote there for the better part of 3 days... The wagon isn't going anywhere today... Sometimes you don't get what you want. We have to get moving so I have a choice of 3 other wagons, time for option 2. Even a scum!72off recognizes that.

The question is why would you insist on leaving your vote somewhere that isn't providing pressure to move the game forward?

This isn't really how it works; if you have a scumread and people aren't voting for them, fight to convince the town that you're right. Don't just move off somewhere else. Yes you didn't have a ton of time but goodness you really weren't doing anything to move the 72 wagon forward.

305 echoes my thoughts there.

I've spent the better part of two hours looking over the game... It's time for bed...

I really liked what Egix has brought since Sunday afternoon. I'm getting town vibes from him. I really like the fact that he saw the 72off had so many scum leans. I don't get it either. I disagree with his cyl read however mainly because I wouldn't expect cyl to have any instincts as she seems to be brand new to forum Mafia. Maybe I'm off on that point... thoughts Egix?

Cyl - hated her last post... but I still think that it comes from not knowing how to respond than some sort of scumplay. The lurking over the last few days is annoying and I completely understand why people are on her wagon.

I'm hoping to get some clarity on which of the viable wagons is best...

I don't really see how seeing that someone has lots of scumleans is AI. All it takes is counting.

315; oh my goodness get your act together 72, dude. You must have called half the playerlist scum by now, with a great deal of confidence on most of those of calls.
Dude.
You find scum everywhere you look.
This is looking worse and worse; your progression from each read to the next is next to nothing.

I'll case 72, once I'm done reading. I'd do it now, but it could be that some incredible remark he makes in the next few hundred posts totally flips my view of him, or he explains all of his progression in one massively detailed post, or something like that, so I'll wait 'til I'm done.

And 316 has nothing of substance.
And 317 fails to answer to the point JDye brings up (he implies that he re-read and used new information, but doesn't say what it is!), and just moves against him in thoroughly baseless, evidence-less pushing.

320 from JDye hits the nail on the head, but it fails to take into account, too, the progression (or lack thereof) of 72's reads; he seems just to jump from one scumread to another, and push that until he finds a new one.

I don't like that JDye doesn't, then, push 72 as scum, but I'm fairly sure on him being town because of how his thoughts on 72 have aligned with mine, and his catch-up, among other things.

Ah I don't like 336. I mean, it could be playstyle difference, and a few people have done it, IIRC, but why would you not push for your scumread? Yes, compromise lynches are reasonable, but you should fight as long as possible to get your wagon through.

I kind of can't blame the town for the pig's death; I mean, 348, 'enjoy the egg on your face'? really?

Woah but 352 is out of the blue. Jeez.

366 is just weird; why, exactly, would you have one scum on muh and one on the pig? According to whom?
(ooh, look at me; the objective case)
I mean, scum on town lynches is often true, but why can't you have two scum on pig?
Why any scum on muh?

Jailed players are slightly more likely to be scum who attempted a kill, rather than town who were targeted.

Why?

Good lord 72. 419 just hurts me. Is this the sixth person you've called scum?
You've pushed votes, but you have never, ever, backed down from a vote, and said 'no I was wrong here's why', you've just pushed slot after slot. You have no progression.

I don't see your points here; 'trying to figure out the game', yes, it's vague, but have you asked him to explain it? Question first, please shoot later.
As to him having two of your scumreads in common, but then putting you above cyl — that means so little. That's not scummy; people can share reads with each other but still suspect each other. I mean, there's only so many people here, and your view on someone is all but binary, scum vs. town, so surely people who think each other are scum are bound to agree on some points.

And then you say that you can 'really vibe' with 324, but then say that town!c4 has 'pretty slim pickings'.

And then you vote for JDye in 428. Man.

Man and then he jumps in 445, through the slimmest 'I can see this one post coming from a town!JDye', right after pressure is put on him by, guess, who, JDye.
And his justification for switching is, 'c4's case against Egix doesn't make sense to me'... Dude, if I voted for everyone who made a case that I didn't understand, I'd be be playing... wait... exactly like you...
The amount of unreasoned flip-flopping.

And then 447... man...

449; safebet sees it, though he doesn't push it.

I get Mizzy's thoughts on 72 in 451, but at the same time, all his activity has been so scummy. Sometimes scum effort, even when they don't need to; store up for the lean years, really.

I agree with 455, that's what I've said. It's such a small reason to change.

He is putting effort in though. Not to defend himself either but to try and produce reads. And a decent part of the player list has him as scummy and it's not changed his playstyle so I don't think he's doing it to get people to think he's town - if it is scum!72 I'm the only one he's really pocketed with it and he'd have found it easier if he didn't scum read over half the player list and hadn't been so hyperbolic. This game is dead, he doesn't need to produce that much text to look like he's trying to contribute.

Eh, yeah, but everything he posts is crap and he dodges actual questions put to him. Like, sure, plenty suspect him but do you see many votes on him yet? Not really.

And JDye has it right again in 458; 72 backs straight off when pressure is put on him, and just finds someone else to tunnel for a few posts.

Yeah, 463 is definitely a consideration; just because he doesn't need to effort so much doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't.
People aren't always logical.

Noone has even bothered to comment on my theory of town vs town wagons = low activity from scum on day one.

Barely anyone has given 2 shits about my ISOs.

He is efforting so he is scum, herp derp. Gee im a good scumhunter.

No one's bothered about your ISOs because they blatantly contradict things you've said before.

Stating someone's cases arent groundbreaking actually suggests you know im town, otherwise you would just say my cases are FALSE rather than UNCONVINCING

These semantics hurt me.

@72 what moved JDye temporarily from lockscum to scum read for you, before you moved him back?

Also if you liked my response to your initial push on my why didn't you act that way at the time?

He was always a scumread. Noone is strong scum day 1, despite what i write.

Yeah, that's the key thing here. You've called everyone strong scum, and plenty on day 1. You made those reads, and then you just... switched them. You never explained why you moved away from those cases, you just... jumped. You're not doing anything.

Will probably look in more detail when I can be bothered to get on desktop and once I've got the two assignments due tomorrow finished.

Since I've at least started to respond to your ISO diving which you seemed very eager for me to do, perhaps you could answer my questions?

I have ZERO incentive to do this.

You are making ZERO effort to consider the possibility of !townMe and are not even remotely interested in looking for a second "scumread".

Which points to !scumyou 70% of the time and useless town the reamining 30% of the time

He's not putting effort into considering town!you because, a) he's confident you're scum because of all your baseless pushes and jumping, and, b) a lot of his time is taken up by responding to random, irrelevant crap from you.

Cyl and Muh are

light townleans

who have

contributed next to nothing to this game.

Muh is scummier than cyl.

Do I smell... an oxymoron?

Damn straight you do.

Gah, I'm sorry I sound so bitter and generally insulting about 72. Just his every post seems so illogical and insulting, and I'm annoyed at the amount of crap that flows forth. I'm mostly annoyed that I have to read it, really; these last few pages have been awful.

In 559 I like that Mizzy considers something they were thinking about before; they talked about the time frame, and then realised, 'wait maybe not', and this post is the product of them thinking that through.

However

, I don't really see the point they're making about muh. I might reread the bit they're talking about in day one, but right now I just can't remember what went down.

Bit of a TL;DR — 72's baseless movement from vote to vote, each time so confident but then backing down when challenged, his inability to answer real questions about his posts and justify them, and his lack of progression from read to read, his constant self-contradiction... Scum, or town that scum won't kill and that I would

hate

in LyLo.
VOTE: 72offsuit

We have 16 hours, and 72 has no defense. His lack of progression I just keep coming back to again and again.

I am too tired to keep thinking about this game. I don't have the energy left to ISO him, but I have something to do early tomorrow that will last for several hours, and I'm afraid, has priority over mafia; I probably won't be around for the rest of this day. Please consider what me and JDye have said about 72, his complete lack of progression and complete lack of justification. True, he may have efforted, but very little he's said has been worth much. So much flip-flopping, so much flailing, especially, at the end towards JD. This isn't town. Look over him yourself; see how little he's said that someone else hasn't or that he hasn't later contradicted. Look at how he backs down when challenged on a read.

Goodnight.

No offense, but this is easily one of the most garbage cases against someone I've yet to encounter.

HYPOTHETICAL:
You register for a newbie game, either be it from the start or replacing in.
You notice: the game has ZERO ACTIVITY, one of the LEAST ACTIVE GAMES in the newbie queue.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
so what does good pro-town TOWN do:

1) Make AGGRESSIVE plays to EVOKE OTHERS to TAKE A STANCE

2) there is SO LITTLE CONTENT and yet you expect confidence and SCUMREAD VOTE SWTICHING
town DO NOT KNOW who scum is.

If anything vote switching is a TOWN TELL.

Scum theatre...

[Egix96]

Ffery is the lhf

I don't think I have ever been called lhf in a mafia game.

I meant your slot as a whole, really. Your predecessor ranked low in the postcounts and ended up going awol.

[Egix96]

On why muh, the ideas I had for why. I know a bunch of these can be WIFOM, but I'll put the less WIFOMy first.

- hitting town who wasn't going to be protected and might have been investigated
- low activity player might be a pr? maybe there was something that was read as a crumb

Now, the WIFOMy stuff. I'm giving what I see as the tier 1 reasoning, add as many levels of WIFOM as you want. Vaguely sorted from what I think is more likely to less likely

- scum want the 72 v ff 1v1 that seems likely to result
- someone wants to benefit from the fact that they unvoted instead of pushing muh through
- someone wants to use muh being town to push people on that wagon
- sells narrative of spangled thinking scum have the game where they want it as wrong, or safebet as scum on the ropes as right
- scum want to push make someone suspicious based on muhs reads, as limited as they were

I could guess which one of these I think it is, but I'll keep it to myself if you'd rather.

I'm planning to have a go at rereading the whole game, but I likely won't have the free time to make a start on that until tomorrow.

[Egix96]

On why muh, the ideas I had for why. I know a bunch of these can be WIFOM, but I'll put the less WIFOMy first.

- hitting town who wasn't going to be protected and might have been investigated
- low activity player might be a pr? maybe there was something that was read as a crumb

Now, the WIFOMy stuff. I'm giving what I see as the tier 1 reasoning, add as many levels of WIFOM as you want. Vaguely sorted from what I think is more likely to less likely

- scum want the 72 v ff 1v1 that seems likely to result
- someone wants to benefit from the fact that they unvoted instead of pushing muh through
- someone wants to use muh being town to push people on that wagon
- sells narrative of spangled thinking scum have the game where they want it as wrong, or safebet as scum on the ropes as right
- scum want to push make someone suspicious based on muhs reads, as limited as they were

I could guess which one of these I think it is, but I'll keep it to myself if you'd rather.

I'm planning to have a go at rereading the whole game, but I likely won't have the free time to make a start on that until tomorrow.

Fair. I’d love a readslists though if you’re still around.

I mean, yes, that’s slightly hypocritical of me. But I’ll read the last few pages of yesterday soon and make one soon, I swear! and case 72, potentially

Eh, I feel like just doing a total reset since I feel like I've been letting my emotions get the better of me when pushing people.

Anyway, here goes.

[Egix96]

Vote Count 1.2

Lithium, ₃Li

— alkali metal, standard atomic weight 6.941, group 1, period 2, s-block

c4e5g3d5

(4): muh316, hunterr, cylstar, BipolarType2

72offsuit

(2): Egix96, c4e5g3d5

hunterr

(2): AGamblingPig, Mizzytastic

Mizzytastic

(1): 72offsuit

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-11-06 06:30:00)

I think that the speed at which the initial c4e5 wagon formed is a point in favour of that slot being town.
Cyl's vote seemed like it wasn't a coincidence (she just figured out how to vote but that's who she chooses?) but BT2slot also looks bad from this because their vote was passed off as RVS.

[Egix96]

Mizzy - Liking shared perspective at beginning of 90 and that they saw town thinking in Gamblepig in 103 who could easily have been pushed as LHF.

Cylstar posts 104, 105 are actually kinda terrible, still don't get why people had reservations on that.

I was hoping this would be doing more to change my mind so far
This is kinda awkward doing all this from tablet so I'll continue once on laptop later.

[Egix96]

Egix notable absentee from end of day yesterday and start of day today when suicide massclaiming on non-LYLO was being suggested

Most of EoD happened while I was asleep, and I've had other priorities lately.

[Egix96]

Vote Count 1.2

Lithium, ₃Li

— alkali metal, standard atomic weight 6.941, group 1, period 2, s-block

c4e5g3d5

(4): muh316, hunterr, cylstar, BipolarType2

72offsuit

(2): Egix96, c4e5g3d5

hunterr

(2): AGamblingPig, Mizzytastic

Mizzytastic

(1): 72offsuit

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-11-06 06:30:00)

I think that the speed at which the initial c4e5 wagon formed is a point in favour of that slot being town.
Cyl's vote seemed like it wasn't a coincidence (she just figured out how to vote but that's who she chooses?) but BT2slot also looks bad from this because their vote was passed off as RVS.

Garbage. The first wagon almost never gets kicked

A bit uncalled for to use that word when I'm just giving my opinion.

[Egix96]

Vote Count 1.9

Neon, ₁₀Ne

— noble gas, standard atomic weight 20.180, group 18, period 2, p-block

AGamblingPig

(3): cylstar, 72offsuit, Mizzytastic

cylstar

(2): muh316, Egix96

muh316

(2): AGamblingPig, c4e5g3d5

72offsuit

(2): safebet222, JDye

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to eliminate.

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-11-06 06:30:00)

^

That VC has errors, when I click the names it takes me to the wrong posts, where cyl/Mizzy voted other slots.

[Egix96]

Need to consolidate on a kick for today with deadline fast approaching, and need enough time for a claim as well.

The fact cylstar is at E-2 and was still sitting on a solo GamblingPig wagon, whom noone really expressed interest in kicking throughout the thread, ie not being survivalistic, alone points towards more likely !towncyl than !scumcyl imo.

I could totally join you there. I'm more mixed on cyl but I agree with your take on Pig, think you are probably town (other than a weird relationship with the hunterr slot but that'd be a pre flip associative) and cyl basically hasn't responded to pressure so seeing how she respond to this might be more helpful. And you are right on the consolidation totally.

Yeah, I've talked myself into it

VOTE: AGamblingPig

Bit surprised by your reads list (no town leans at all, really?) but I think you'd know it looks weird and could manufacture one or two as scum to make it stand out less.

Nvm, found it. Haven't got far enough to see the context tho.

[Egix96]

While you are here. Please comment on wagons in vote count in post 289. Dont need an indepth analysis
Want your gut feel read now.

Woooow it's almost like cylstar is conf scum
Should focus more on offsuit/safebet/Jdye

[Egix96]

Spoiler: Pages 6 to 13

p#131 (Mizzy) - Minor town points for making this sort of observation.

p#135 (c4e5, first line) - Prev note also applies here.

p#148 (hunterr) - Mild pocketing vibes here, seems a bit premature to be that confident on a read.

p#158 (Mizzy) - Strange for them to pitch in with this when it would have been more optimal to wait and see how I acted first.

p#164 (JDye) - Perspective here looks fairly similar to my own up to this point, not perfectly of course but yeah.

p#166 (also JDye) - "Not confident enough to actually call someone scum yet so won't be voting just now. I'll wait a page or two to get a better feel for the game." - This does seem a bit too non-committal though.

p#170 (Mizzy) - "I'm winding down for bed right now so you'll get more tomorrow but one thing stood out to me about the catch up and one thing is just bugging me in general and I went be able to turn me brain off otherwise." - Town vibes.
"More generally. muh is saying not much. It's bad. We all agree he should say more. Can someone give me a scum intent for still not trying after people really start calling it out and voting there? Cos right now it feels policy elimy to me." - Liking the critical thinking here.

p#183 (offsuit) - Possible chainsaw defence of cyl.

p#218 (safebet) - "The Mizzy-C4 (Chess moves - yeah - the English - c4 e5 g3 d5) exchange I think was Mizzy just trying to drag this game quickly out of RVS and c4 still wanting to goof off. Still nothing particularly AI, imo." - Idk, wouldn't that at least make you think Mizzy came off a bit townier than c4e5?

Later in the same post: "Muh is neutral for me [...] but perhaps thats the ploy? ahhh... I have to go to bed..." - Throws subtle shade at me and muh despite calling us neutral. Also his read on offsuit seems too waffly.

p#219 (cylstar) - "mizzy - they've been active and has 'participated' a lot." - It makes no sense for that word to be in quote marks unless it was quoted from someone else, and even then... why not just look to see whether that person has actually been participating?

"the fact that safebet has different opinions to hunter gives me town vibes" - It's a different person, why wouldn't their opinions be different?

"muh - their refusal to answer the question seems anti-town." - See, not "scummy", just "anti-town". That sounds like a mindset of looking for town who are acting in an "un-towny" way.

p#230 (c4e5) - That was all? :/

p#255 (Mizzy) - "I've backed off a bit [...] cos my activity level felt like it was smothering instead of encouraging in this group" - Towny attitude here, scum would keep powerposting in order to maintain thread control.

p#274 (offsuit) - How would it be? He was implying that you and Mizzy were the same alignment.

p#281 (also offsuit) - You do this, yet now give me crap for doing something similar re: c4e5.

p#282 (Mizzy) - Hate to say it but I think you got swayed there

p#283 (c4e5) - "Wagons from best elim to worst: muh Pig 72 cyl" - Oof, some partner equity with cylslot here.

p#312 (safebet) - "Cyl - hated her last post... but I still think that it comes from not knowing how to respond than some sort of scumplay. The lurking over the last few days is annoying and I completely understand why people are on her wagon." - Very mild not-scum-with-cylslot vibes here.

[Egix96]

Did you read my first game where some poor townie was wagoned after my horrible fake claim?

Haven't read it, but I can definitely relate to the feeling of seeing someone you know to be town getting wagonned for what seems like a really unfair reason... that's how I felt in my first game. Since then I've just been desensitised to it though.

Who is this guy and what car trunk was egis stuffed into?

*Stifled laugh*

Yeah, I think I was kinda deflated that game because I had just come back from a break of ~a couple of months and the first two elims in the game were pretty demotivating.

This looks like a try hard game.

I'm a bit surprised by that verdict, seeing as I don't think I really did all that much until the lategame.

White flag game. Hammered by scum-Hectic on page 4. Game over on page 20. 23 posts is actually a lot given he was elimed on page 4.

This is inaccurate - page 4 was actually a fake hammer gambit, I didn't really die until pg. 14.

picks at weird things in the early game like another player thinking meta is a topic that comes up in newbie games, and making a snarky comment to a player with less than 100 posts wondering why they can't get into the GTKAS forum.

The GTKAS thing wasn't intended as snark, just saying.

[Egix96]

Ok.. I'm bored. I reread the thread during the last night phase... Here are some things I'd like to discuss ... Anyone can pick and choose what to respond to. First, concerning the BiPolar/JDye spot...

A trio of questions.

For everyone, what's your experience with mafia?

I've played a ton of fm at sc2mafia.

Played the custom starcraft 2 mafia mod like a thousand times.

We get pretty toxic at sc2mafia

how toxic do we get here at mafiascum?

BP then put C4 at E-1 the very next post. Can someone explain to me if this is AI or not? As an inexperienced player I don't think I would put anyone at E-1 during RVS as either alignment. I'm not sure why a more experienced player would do that.

Might just be different site meta?

[Egix96]

How do you feel re efforting in this game?

Not entirely sure what you mean there, but I don't really feel like doing a lot this game because, y'know, ~other priorities~

[Egix96]

How do you feel re efforting in this game?

Not entirely sure what you mean there, but I don't really feel like doing a lot this game because, y'know, ~other priorities~

What I meant was how do you feel your level of effort here compares to that game?

I'd say it's been a bit more, yeah.

[Egix96]

@mizzy and @egix lets get some votes down before we get too far along.

VOTE: Spangled

[Egix96]

This is a super weird take, I totally disagree

Eh, I stand by it. In one of my previous Newbie games this year I correctly identified someone as town using the same sort of reasoning.

[Egix96]

How about you vote 72?

I've not read your case there yet. I was more looking for help with organising thoughts. I hate the fact I'm useless while being a UTR until you came along and I want to fix that uselessness.

There is no case to read.

MC badically Says read up to page 9, asked who pushed pig when it was obvious who pushed pig.

Zero comments on readslist or cases made on who is scum.

The impression ive gotten off MC is that thye like playing as town. Im getting the vibe that MC joined this game and was rip full of energy to solve it, then was disappointed to see a red role pm.
Thus the zero analysis.

Could've seen this one coming from a mile away.

nvm, i can see now, pig isntead of off

Really this just seems like a blatant misrep that you needed to walk back on because it was too easy to spot. I doubt anyone's reading comprehension is that bad.

[Egix96]

That's a lot of townposting.

72, I hope I'm not up for the day yet. I don't have a full reads list. However, my thoughts are consolidated enough that I feel sure I won't be voting you or Mizzy today. Probably not JDye either.

I need a couple more hours sleep and then I'll get back to this.

THe concerning thing is your mindest sseems like it is on who NOT to kick rather than a town mindest of trying to come up with a strong preference for a kick given the fast approaching deadline.

Like here is a post criticizing your play. But remember when 72 said he would vote anyone but mizzy? Weird right?

2. You arent comparing apples to apples, but rather apples to motorbikes.

I stated who was my preferred KICK and that i was willing to compromise if needed, with DEADLINE approaching.

FF was stating who she would NOT like to kick, with fast deadline approaching, effectively buddying those players and which lines up with scum agenda of trying to reduce the targets on her back.

RATHER than working to consolidate a kick.

You don't believe in solving by process of elimination? I think it's perfectly valid to take that approach instead if no one seems overtly scummy.

[Egix96]

Throw enough mud and something will stick, hey?

Boy 72off, kind of ironic coming from you.

I was thinking that too!

[Egix96]

I'm not easy to miselim.

Your best bet is convincing me that I'm an elo liability. Sadly, that works on me.

Have you and murdercat played together much?

Huh? Why would it? Surely you can't just let people convince you into thinking "Oh well, I shouldn't be in elo, better offer myself as tribute "

[Egix96]

Egix, help me out here, come vote 72 with me. Me, you, ff, safebet, maybe we can get Mizzy to bus at that point

Gladly.

VOTE: 72offsuit

As for the options, 2 is the only one I would see any use in.

[Egix96]

trying... to.. avoid... talking... about.. obvious.. scum pair

Imo that makes Mizzy town tho if offsuit flips scum, because that would be an attempt to drive a wedge between me and Mizzy.

[Egix96]

Has Egix said anything about cylslot since it stopped being cyl?

Yes, I did state some thoughts about Spangled's posts not long after he had replaced in.

[Egix96]

I'll vote ffery when you guys are ready to end the Day.

UNVOTE:

[Egix96]

I'll vote ffery when you guys are ready to end the Day.

UNVOTE:

Can you please give us your reads. Who is the 2nd scum.

I'm still thinking it's Spangled.

[Egix96]

Of course i am.

Look at tye effort ive put in.
Regardless, even if i was scum.
I get intent to hammered AFTER ASKING MIZZY TO notify me when back in the thread.

Fuck you dude. Whenever I've done anything other than exactly what you want you bombard me with posts until I get in line or leave the thread. You are part of the reason for my apathy this game. If you read what I said I specifically avoided the thread after you said that cos it sound my anxiety and I just wanted a chance to get my own thoughts out without being railroaded. And when I don't do what you want you just get angry at me and I feel like avoiding you in the first plane was the right thing


Anyway UNVOTE: , no cc here

K. Apologies if i made the game unenjoyable for u, was jot my intention.
I probs got carried away with the game. Just townread you hard and i thought u townread me.

Im not surprised u voted for me given i can see from this post how angry and fruastrated u r with me.

If i knew u were at this level i wudv stepped back.

All i can say is my bad.

I'm sorry for snapping there. I've had a lot going on this game and it bled into the game and I'm sorry.

I could never confidently town read you because you were being intentionally anti charismatic. TSTBS players are usually just town - either a new player who doesn't know or an experienced one who doesn't care - but you can never be confident there. Especially when I've been pocketed like that before.

I should double check who talked about me potentially being pocketed. I'm pretty sure JDye did but that might just be him being tunnelled. I also think I remember Safebet doing it to convince me to vote muh (amongst other stuff) despite his read on you being more mixed - could be intentional.

I've also been out of the game in general and lack a lot of confidence over my reads - like I first post I'm not good at this game.

I am decent at sounding town, but as far as I'm concerned I'm not great at scum hunting or producing reads, which means as scum I dunno what to fake

. My town strategy is be honest about my thoughts, pay attention to town health and hope I say something that helps someone else solve the game. It's probably what CAT was reading too

Don't be discouraged, bolded applies to me too

[Egix96]

Who is around at deadline? 72 has usually been but my sleep is getting fixed so I'd rather not be, and Egix is my time zone too.

I can vote before I go to sleep.

[Egix96]

Who is around at deadline? 72 has usually been but my sleep is getting fixed so I'd rather not be, and Egix is my time zone too.

I can vote before I go to sleep.

The concern is ff self hammering before 72 can get here and saying who he jks

I'm aware. I was just a bit concerned that there might not be a maj if I didn't vote.

[Egix96]

Egix, a question. You've scum read Spangled consistently throughout this game.

Startish of d2 you put forward three players you find scummy - Spangledslot, 72 and ffslot.

End of d2 you show up with 3 wagons. What makes you choose the one Spangled is on?

It's because I thought that offsuit was more likely to be scum than ffery was, and I already thought that offsuit and Spangled were teamed anyway.

[Egix96]

The last point is that it strikes me as strange the Egix mostly votes when asked... it happened several times, maybe 4. He only vote one time that I could find without prompting. Anyone else find this strange? Not sure if its AI.

Yeah, I usually don't vote until I'm very confident.

51 I'm not sure what this post refers to. It seems really out of place...
-snip-
And looking at FF's post above makes me think that Cyl's #51 was intended for the Scum PT.

Personally I always interpreted it as following on from her previous post - it was the figuring out how to format a vote that took her five minutes.

Nevertheless,

VOTE: Spangled

E-1

It's nearly always just him. FMPOV the only other person it could be is safebet, but if so he's played a really clean game since I don't think I ever saw anything particularly scummy from safebet.

[Egix96]

As for the rest of your post... I wouldn't expect anything less than you defending your actions. Thankfully, I don't have to convince you that you are scum, I have to convince the others. Most of them laid out reasons that your slot is scummy.

I'm just trying to remind them of those reads and add to the narrative.

Er... isn't that what scum would be doing though?

[Egix96]

As for the rest of your post... I wouldn't expect anything less than you defending your actions. Thankfully, I don't have to convince you that you are scum, I have to convince the others. Most of them laid out reasons that your slot is scummy.

I'm just trying to remind them of those reads and add to the narrative.

Er... isn't that what scum would be doing though?

I'm not sure... I mean doesn't it depend on the game? FMPOV... we've got our votes on probable scum now... if all of my town reads at one point of the game or another pointed to reasons why that slot is bad, shouldn't I point to them and add my own pieces to the fold?

IDK... If you haven't noticed, I'm not really good at this. I thought I was supposed to convince people that my scum read should get voted.

Okay, I think I see what you mean now. I just felt a bit twinged by the phraseology there.

PS: You can link posts simply by putting (post) tags around the number.

[Egix96]

Ok well let's try to get more out of egix today then

Been kinda busy today, sry. If you need anything specific from me just mention it here and I'll come back in the morning.

[Egix96]

I'd like more detail on why you thought 72 was Spangled/cyl's partner.

Also curious if you have any thoughts as to why FF meta dived you and the conclusions she came to.

I just thought that they were the two scummiest slots overall.

I imagine that ffery was probably planning to cover everyone. Might have been going in alphabetical order?
Personally I don't consider the conclusion to have much relevance; it could easily have just been her natural feelings.

[Egix96]

Spoiler: Rereading

#37, 43, 48 - Hunterr (safebet slot) gaining some town points over Mizzy here.

#72 - Slight indirect defence of Mizzy? I'm actually not entirely sure what c4e5 meant here, I regret not asking at the time.

#87 - "I think the wagon lends credence to town!c4 too. Even for a mostly RVS wagon I think scum are less likely to wagon their partner like that, especially in a newbie game. Accidental hammers happen." - The problem with this statement is that it assumes that scum were on the wagon to begin with.

#111 - I kinda doubt that this is a bus considering how petty the reasoning seems.

#112 - "Mizzy's treatment of cyl is horribly inconsistent with Mizzy's treatment of me." - Also this seems a bit too risky to point out if c4/Mizzy are teamed.

"hunterr -- Initial vote on me reads as obligatory contribution based on the only thing he can find to talk about. Eventually he gives an actual reason with original thought though so that's nice." - Very subtle shade that is walked back on in the very next sentence.

#119 - Why would scum ever say this about a buddy tho >__<

#135 - Continuation of 112a.

#218 - "I don't think you can make a read on c4 up to this point" - Very slight +town for safebet as this was in disagreement with Mizzy's TR of the slot.

#244 - "Also, do you think the game's general low activity so far is bad for town? If so, what should we do about it?" - This mildly feels like the sort of question that, if asked by scum, would be aimed at a townie (in an effort to subconsciously gain favour with them by being "helpful") rather than towards a buddy. (I'm aware that this was said by safebet towards c4 but my logic is that it makes safebet less likely to be scum.)

#324 - "Take big issue with Egix and Mizzy forgetting this is a newbie game (re: cyl)." - Rule of two?

#346 - +town for bringing attention to what was, in hindsight, practically outing from c4.

== End of D1 ==

TL;DR - I'm actually leaning more towards voting Mizzy now.

[Egix96]

@egix... You're D1 reread and conclusion seem pretty inconsistent.
If you're leaning Mizzy is 111 distancing or just happenstance if its not bussing?
And if it was simply distancing why would they continue referring to it the rest of the day?

(Line returns added by me)
- Well yeah, that's because the tldr is how I actually feel; I'm not trying to just make a best-fit conclusion of the points I've laid out. The problem I have here is that you both have quite a lot in your favour but I can't just go "welp I guess maybe you're both town" because obviously I know that can't be true.
- I actually could see 111 as coming from inexperienced scum because it's vaguely reminiscent of a push I made on my own scumbuddy in my first-ever Newbie game (even if it was only because I was panicking and really didn't know what I was doing at the time).
- My counterpoint to this is that, why wouldn't they? It would look rather strange if they just dropped the subject for no apparent reason.

[Egix96]

Ok... So what do you make of Mizzy pushing C4/ FF up until the no vote was floated?

Although Mizzy definitely questioned c4 plenty (e.g. 391, 405), I would hardly say that they were actively pushing on the c4 slot, as shown by the cold-footed (idk if that makes sense as a phrase but I'm sure you get the point) vote in:

I was getting close to voting c4 but I'm curious why 72 is so happy voting there when he still has half his isos to go.

But we do need wagons - I'm not sure there is anyone here I have a confident scumread on VOTE: c4

There's also this bit here which is setting off alarm bells for me because it suggests that Mizzy didn't really have a vested interest in evaluating the c4 slot:

If its town fferyllt one of 72 and muh is probably scum.

If it's town 72 I agree one of JDye and Spangled is prob scum.

I retreated to muh out of paranoia and the way he joined the c4 wagon bugging me.


VOTE: fferyllt

I think town ff has caught up enough to vote. And it's time to accept I might be wrong instead of waffling and go with what bugged me before people exerted charisma at me.

Pedit:

I only skimmed your c4 case actually.

I had my own stuff bugging me there

===

Day 3 - 1005 - Egix needed to justify the vote on 72 instead of FF... took him overnight to think of it. IMO it's just not a very good one...

Not true - that was something I found in real time while re-reading which was something I had only just been able to get around to doing at that point.

Back on the Cyl/Spangled push. This is getting repetitive... like the only agenda he has is laying low, pushing the cyl slot and not much else in terms of helping town unless he is asked.

Even if I haven't been very active this game, it definitely hasn't been out of choice. I was trying to re-evaluate, but just ended up conf-biasing because, hey, it turns out I'm actually not very good at resetting my brain and looking at everything through fresh eyes.

1569 - This post gives me pause... not sure of the scum motivation for being reflective like this... perhaps trying to buddy the UTR. It's just awkward as scum, imo.

Like, this is something I already knew about myself and it applied in plenty of my recent games, not just this one specifically. I just find it kinda ??? that

this

is the one thing that's giving you pause...

[Egix96]

Mizzy has been UTR the whole game

Except maybe D1

[Egix96]

Mizzy... it's a game... do your best and if you're right, we'll all celebrate, and if you're wrong, try again. And if you're scum... go to hell I, for one, won't be blaming you for making a wrong choice, if that's how it turns out. I will be asking myself what didn't I do to convince you I'm town. How do you think I'll feel if I end up voting Egix and you're scum??? Getting duped is a part of the game...

Spoiler:

Day 1

218 Why do I move my vote from cyl at E-2 to a new wagon 72 with more than half the day gone if I'm scum? Wouldn't I have left it there a while longer to see if it doesn't get further traction?

336 Why am I going to push to consolidate at the end of D1 if I'm scum when all of the viable wagons are town? Wouldn't I just let it play out?

346

(1)

Why am I gong to call out scum!C4's push to get a second claim out of town!muh here if I'm scum?

Day 2

I made my case against muh because I thought his play was scummy. He was only defending himself and not really contributing in anyway. I think MC pointed out that muh was probably targeted as a possible PR because of 364.

Also, why wouldn't I find some reason to change my vote to cyl if I'm scum especially after Egix basically asked me to in post 462.

You noted in post 716 what town!me motivations for the Muh push are. I had been town reading you all game so why wouldn't I ask you to help me push Muh? I was trying to build a town block.

Day 3

I have to admit... looking back at D3, there isn't much to like.

(2)

But I'll refer to MC noting that posts 1304, 1305, 1377 and 1379 are town tells. Besides, I townread MC hence post 1310...

Day 4

I am trying to figure out here via POE who is more likely scum. Again I was wrong... as was MC... I doing that again today, despite you saying that scum!me would try to get Egix elimm'd. There isn't really anything else here I can say...

In short, Mizzy... I'm town... MC thought so, even 72 thought so for a while (and he scumread everyone for the most part). I hope I've done enough to convince you, too. I'm trying my best to solve the game. As for the last part that's bothering you, I don't know what to say... I don't see any good reason in being an ass to Egix and only see interacting with him as a positive. Besides Wisconsin nice, remember.

I don't really see how reacting to an E-1 with enthusiasm and unvoting once offsuit claimed are good examples of obvtown-ness (bolded 2) but yeah, the (bolded 1) is probably the strongest thing in your favour.

[Egix96]

Here's what I think are the most telling interactions:
- hunter push on chess moves (28, 48, 88, 119)
- spangled slot missing from (689)
- ff does an egix meta dive (1038)
- cylstar early push on chess moves (50, 104)
- Egix never pushing chess moves/ff throughout the game
- safebet generally towntelling like all game (1305, 1377, 1653)
- catch up post from spangled is maybe kind IIOA? And maybe the 72 vote is too convenient? (600, 611)
- Hesitance to vote ff from spangled? (875)
- Spangled reaction to 72 and ff claim (1517, 1532, 1544)

Sry he didn't actually say "obv" (I misremembered) but yeah

[Egix96]

Any objections to me voting soon? The deadline's not far off now.

[Egix96]

VOTE: safebet222

[Egix96]

Who's here?
Mizzy I wanna apologise for tricking you