TENET - Game Over

[Brian Skies]

I need to sleep and I'm going to be busy until late Sunday.

I'm going to give Gyx a chance to do things before I end Titus on my return.

[Brian Skies]

Actually fuck, look at the time between 3519 to 3648. The dude was thinking about his reads in forward for 3 hours

-E

Eh? Those readslists were responses to different posts. The second one probably took me about 20 minutes, give or take. I appreciate the defense, but iso'ing without context will burn you.

What's a normal Brian pattern?

[Brian Skies]

Spoiler: On Sirius

Titus replaced the Sirius slot, which I did lean town early on. It was mostly on setup-spec and his reaction against unwnd, but looking back, it's possible I townbinned him for that too soon. And outside of his mechanical speculation, it was mostly just fluff. The mechanical spec was also technically piggy-backed off of Hench Princess as well, so it's possible he was just trying to ride that wave for towncred.

Either way, I'm mostly making this read off of Titus.

UNVOTE: All votes

Hi everyone.

VOTE: pisskop

The walls made my eyes bleed.

Do I need to read the other thread too?

First two posts from Titus. The first one is okay and seems reasonable. The second one stands out though. For a player that hasn't really read the thread, why does she choose to vote Pisskop? She doesn't mention a reason at all and I feel like she could've done way more with an introductory vote on literally any other player.

Potential early distancing.

I have a townread on everyone but zmuffin so far. He's null.

A50 may be scum.

Zmuffin worries me too. All spec no analysis.

I already commented on the first post after she made it in that I thought it was incredibly bizarre in that I had no idea how she could've gotten townreads on everyone but zMuffin, but I just wrote it off as a Titus-post.

She was also still voting Pisskop at the time. So if she thinks Pisskop is townish, why still vote there?

The comment about zMuffin also rubbed me the wrong way because I didn't get this impression of Muffin at the time. And it's also why I didn't mind Muffin questioning the Sirius/Titus slot (and actually thought that push from him felt a little townish).

Can you guys not post as much 8-10 pages is too much.

Am I reading right that the notsci hydra is L-1?

Wtf is going on over there

Haven't read there thread but it's good they have wagons.

I think our half may just be a scum by vote count thread with fewer members. Either that or scum are really happy with the gamestate.

Reading the other thread because it's slower than here and using that thread to get context over here since y'all are all talking about there anyway.

I'm about 150 posts in. Already townreading Fire, scumreading Skitter, Brian Skies and HP. Slight townread on Deacon and Annie. [Note: I have a townread of Imperium but that's not because of the reading I'm doing so far but interactions here.

We can punt pisskop first followed by Pooky. I’m cool with that.

I'm ok turnstiling pisskop. It's a slower thread so he may be able to play the game and get sortable.

VOTE: turnstile pisskop

What's your goal in asking questions about a vote on a player before they respond to the vote? What's your goal in attacking the value of a pressure vote before the player responds? Did you townread sirius? Do you have a read of Titus? Given Imperium has explained that you wildly misunderstood very basic points in this conversation, why are you continuing to try to posit me as the bad guy here? If you ask bad questions and whine about good ideas, you are scumsiding. You are actively being scummy in this interaction

I totally missed your vote on me. Casting a "pressure vote" after I call you scum. I feel so pressured.

pedit - Yes Annie. It has fewer pages unless I am just crazy.

LOL I'm crazy. I should have read this thread. xD

UNVOTE: Turnstile pisskop

This is where she introduces her thinking the other thread was

slower

than our thread. I let it pass, not so much because I thought this was typical of Titus, just that I didn't understand why she would think this.

It's possible she was just looking to do something silly and claim 'oh this is just me doing something weird because moonlogic so I must be town.' But I don't consider this as moonlogic. To me, moonlogic in regards to Titus is her making some outlandish connection from Point A to Point Z but there's no way for someone else to make that jump. There isn't really moonlogic-type jump here, just her doing something weird for the sake of it.

It's also possible she didn't want to focus too much on this thread here because she replaced scum and didn't know how to start pushing a bunch of players she knew were town.

She also turnstiles Pisskop because 'oh the other side is slower' but quickly unvotes when she supposedly realizes it isn't the slower thread. Which makes me think she doesn't actually want to turnstile Pisskop.

I am sad Titus has not been clamoring to interact with me yet given that I am her favorite person in this game

Titus who should I be scum reading right now?

right? she voted to have you leave the thread before reading the thread

You should be scumreading Skitter, maybe LLD.

LLD and Superbowl might have been theatre.

I'm looking at 778 in the other thread and I'm wondering if scum would ever be so bold as to say two of their teammates are never S v S.

I need someone to shoot down my skitter LLD superbowl theory before I get super tunnelled.

Can you rephrase 1390 Annie?

Can you please shoot down my LLD Superbowl Skitter theory or at least comment on it?

This is another weird train of thought in that I don't have a major issue with it and I personally didn't like the Suberbowl/LLD interactions (wasn't really paying attention to Skitter posts so idk), but she kept asking for someone to shoot down her theory. Sure, not wanting to get too tunneled may be a concern, but if she feels like she may be onto something, why ask for someone to break you out of a tunnel so early? It just seems like she wanted to push there but didn't want to actually follow through or become too invested.

Potential distancing here as well.

VOTE: Turnstyle pisskop

Not sure this is the best play, but I'm not sure enough to fight confirmed town.

Only really votes Pisskop because confirmed IC-Tammycho requested it.

If LLD is scum. SS is locktown. This is moonlogic that shall not be discussed.

@FL, When I said, "shall not be discussed", I meant "shall not be discussed".

Another weird interaction here.

Except this time she directly mentions 'moonlogic' here, as if that should be an indication she's going through a town thought process. Very performative and scummy.

@3200, I'm not locktowning FL. I happen to think he could be scum with LLD. There's no reason to have that fake melodrama as a top townread. You could disagree with my perception read sure. Top town? No way. She's only fake or defensive.

I want to be against a Pooky turnstyle for wagonomics reasons, but I think thread health needs it and that's why the wagonomics are off. Not sure.

Spiffeh, I claim a super powerful role. I claim all the powers. All of them.

VOTE: turnstyle pooky

I'm off to bed now. No crazy shenanigans.

Also, why is Pooky suddenly active there and nary a peep over here?

I most certainly am having those "too little resistance" feels and would like to nail down if I'm paranoid or not.

I get that in a way. I think Pooky was scum and they went along with the ejection to stage an S v S fight. Pooky never really hunted anyone here. Pooky mentions Flavor twice in his ISO. One is a joke about how Flav Flav shot him in a prior game. In the other, he campaigns to save Noraa from Flavor who is the main bad guy.

I do think the decision to send over Pooky rather than execute Pooky is largely scum driven. I have zero problems sending over scummy people to the other thread. I just have zero belief we're getting to no scum in here by d3, not with consensus anyway.

I do feel scum have infected the consensus but we're doing the right thing anyway. The slots we're sending over are the slots that are LHF. When we have no LHF then we'll see who is scum a bit easier. That's my theory anyway.

Titus went from 'I think I want to be against a Pooky turnstile but okay with it for thread health reasons' to 'I think that turnstile was largely scumdriven' when it was really driven by TammyCho. And she was part of the turnstile.

Also, in post 2400, she literally casts suspicion on Pooky for staging a fight with Flavor Leaf while acknowledging that Pooky already indicated he thought Flavor was potential scum for his push against Noraa.

This flip is just bizarre and I wouldn't be surprised if her sudden push against Pooky is just opportunism from her.

And then she continues to push Pooky as scum today despite setting up this bizarre FL-Pooky SvS universe.

Read zmuff's ISO and look at his approach to Shelly. He soft-defends Shelly, slowly comes around to scum being between A50 and Shelly but really tries hard not to commit to the read too much, then reacts to the roleclaim in post 2507 in a very weird way. Completely believes it it sounds like, and acting sad about the PR loss and like the elim is inevitable (to be fair it really was). In post 2527 argues the claim has no purpose as scum, because no survival value, but ends the post speculating on it being scum anyway.

After changing to a townread, counter to what seems like the majority opinion, Muff undercuts his townread of Shelly at every mention, never getting too close to derailing the wagon.

-Scorpia

VOTE: zmuffin

Bahhh.

Kind of curious about Muffin's thoughts on this, unless his various mentions of him not being sure if Titus is just being 'Titus' is referencing this.

At least Gyx explained what he liked about it.

This is probably just more opportunism from Titus.

Is SS claiming a role too?

Nope. It's my moonlogic.

Another reference to moonlogic. Performative.

Brian Skies - town lean

Opens up the day with a townlean on me.

Titus what's your read on Brian?

I feel Brian is tonally town but may be scum mechanically

Definitely not A CC and no desire to eliminate Brian atm

I feel like anyone who knows what I've been talking about today should know I can't be scum mechanically. But I don't really want to be read as town that way.

I was actually unsure what Titus meant by this. And the only thing I can think of is the Noraa NK because I mentioned that NachoTammy made a beautiful towncase on her on Day 1. But it's not a kill I would ever go for as scum, especially with Gyx already mentioning he thought Noraa was either scum or a role she wasn't interested in here (like, why would I ever make this kill; I go for PR's, not potential VT's).

This just feels like a comment set-up to throw suspicion my way. Even more so when she immediately backtracks on it as though that wasn't her intent.

Also note how she opens with a townread on me.

VOTE: Titus

I'm actually highly appreciative of Muffin pushing Gyx for this.

I was hoping to get someone else to make a case for me, and I suppose we can just have Gyx do it.

I feel like I'm probably going to end up making one anyway (although you all may have to wait for it since I'll be busy this weekend).

If you all just want to vote Titus of your own discretion, then that works too.

Been doing Xmas prep. Will catch up asap.

I haven't read this stuff in the middle, but this makes me suspect of BS scum with SS.

If SS is scum, scum want me dead prior to the merge. I'm not obvtowning enough to make that happen so BS pushes on me. Add in the fact the mechanics FoS them a bit and welll...

Muffin, SS, BS, Pooky, pisskop, skitter, LLD contains a shitload of scum btw

Titus, why is Brian Skies scummy?

The forcing a swap mechanic seems like a get out of jail card for scum here. The fact it was used to swap rather than eliminate pooky raises eyebrows of S S.

Brian could also be provoking LLD.

Muffin, SS, BS, Pooky, pisskop, skitter, LLD contains a shitload of scum btw

Titus, why is Brian Skies scummy?

The forcing a swap mechanic seems like a get out of jail card for scum here. The fact it was used to swap rather than eliminate pooky raises eyebrows of S S.

Brian could also be provoking LLD.

So your theory is I'm provoking my own teammate?

What?

That's not a precise team. I also forgot zmuffin.

The fact it was used to swap rather than eliminate pooky raises eyebrows of S S.

What's the connection between the Pooky swap and S_S?

Sorry that's you Scum and pooky Scum, not something smart.

Notice how quickly her stance on me changes the instant I express suspicion on her slot. And I didn't even have to say anything.

She immediately rushes into the thread and throws suspicion my way despite having me as a townlean earlier.

And nothing she accused me of was substantiated.

She said she thought there was a connection between the Pooky turnstile and myself. When asked her what that was, she produced nothing (because I had nothing to do with Pooky's turnstile).

And me being scum for provoking LLD is silly. I don't think LLD would care and I like to provoke everyone anyway.

Spoiler: Pisskop relevant posting

Excited.

oh boy. Yea lets just powerlynch something and move on. Narrow down our suspect pool before we sort everyone.

Sounds good Pisskop can we start with you.

you could.

but then i wouldnt be in the game anymore. Thus i must object. You need me, you see.

P: ummm idk. Id agree to no thread-swapping, but Im not so sure its in the spirit of the game. We might have some kind of hidden mechanic, and most likely scum can somehow influence the swaps or even make their own somehow.

Skitter needs to be yeeted. I'm only to post 201 but you should yeet him ASAP. The hyperfocus on yeeting Imperium is bad, particularly the early random shade. Most of her reads are shade. The townread on HP was unwarranted based on the their ISO at the time. Not sure if it's warranted now.

hmmmm this is good. A post by a person Ive known for years about a person I feel a connection with.

Flavor Leaf could be town.

bwahahahahaha

Flavor is honestly best dealt with by assuming they are town to begin with and then subtracting points for the things they do.

All you guys need to know is: I am town. I have utility.

ahhhh, well i did not know you ICed and i did not know i had to consent to be flipped.

sure i consent. one thread is as good as another.

vote: turnstyle piss

Thread 2 (Inverted)

boop

okay. merry 'mas

That's literally all Pisskop has done. We have "eliminated" scum in the forwards thread by turnstyling and eliminating. Two turnstyles means two opportunities to save scum from the elimination. We turnstyled Pooky and pisskop. Pooky's tried and got suspicion. Pisskop's been a bowl of lurky shit. His response to a prod is a prodge. That's inexcusable. Lim him.

Looking at Pisskop's posts, there's a major hint as to his partner. It's Brian Skies. He alludes to scum having a turnstyle mechanic because he already knows they have it.

Brian's role acts like a scum get out of jail free card. It can also act to disrupt another thread.

So I am strongly at Pisskop BS and Pooky all aligned.

The house of cards rests with Pisskop being scum. Flip him before Pooky.

We'll flip BS here first if I have a say.

VOTE: Brian Skies

And now she could very well be hardbussing Pisskop. I'm not sure if it's because she thinks that's why I was suspecting her, or if she just thinks she can tie me to him, or because I've been calling Pisskop scum for a while now and was perfectly fine eliminating him if he didn't turnstile, but I think it's hilarious and am fine with Pisskop being eliminated before Pooky (which should be obvious anyway).

[Brian Skies]

I was on the last page, Spiffeh.

I think.

[Brian Skies]

I also recall myself thinking (and typing) that I thought it weird neither of Brian/Annie made a mention of midwaybear

I said I thought the bear was probably scum.

Unless you thought I was referencing Pooky, which kinda makes sense because of his avatar, but I clearly said I was still townreading Pooky in that post.

[Brian Skies]

The tone in 4235 is off, but I'm not sure if the poor grammar at the end is actually scum-indicative.

[Brian Skies]

If Titus is scum here she has REALLY stepped up her game in the past year

I really doubt it though

You don't seem to have a clue who scum are anyway, so you could do worse than sheeping me.

[Brian Skies]

That's cool, Bell. I've been townreading you for the vast majority of this game.

Who are you voting right now?

[Brian Skies]

I still think Pooky should be the elim over Pisskop

Some sacrifices may need to be made.

[Brian Skies]

And by that I mean sacrificing Pooky.

[Brian Skies]

My lim pool is still the same lim pool at this moment in time

They just have different degrees of confidence

(hint: I am confident in none of them)

Whispers in Spiffeh's ear:

Sheep Me

[Brian Skies]

I honestly don't believe Titus 180's her read on me like that and tries to eliminate me with a garbage case unless she truly felt threatened by me.

Why would she feel threatened? I have no idea. But she definitely seemed like she had a guilty conscience when she did it.

[Brian Skies]

This almost sounds like something Titus would say

Okay?

[Brian Skies]

Did you read the entire thing?

[Brian Skies]

Did you read the entire thing?

I was responding to 4292, but I just read the whole thing and I think your case on Titus has merit.

Just probably not the guilty conscience plus feeling threatened combination. That doesn’t make emotional sense to me.

Eh. I'll take whatever merit I can get. It's not like it's solely predicated on that anyway.

[Brian Skies]

I'm a sucker for a towncase on me.

Unless you have something substantiated, I'm probably not interested in going there over Titus.

I'm also somewhat distracted and interested in what Cabd + fferyhydra are talking about right now.

[Brian Skies]

I had no idea Bell was even crumbing.

[Brian Skies]

I'm counting like 3 to 5 hench princess lies.

The easiest one is saying he's not upset which is a huge pill to swallow.

and I'm not even good at swallowing pills.
I'm an applesauce baby.
Worst nurse ever.

Crumb?

[Brian Skies]

Setup spec isn't really my thing.

But I'm questioning so many things right now.

[Brian Skies]

I'm still looking for the amendment. Why can't he be obnoxious about his crumbing like a certain other player?

[Brian Skies]

That’s paranoid town bell tho.
I’m never sure if i’m Being taken for a ride from high efforting what do you mean i’m Being paranoid of you but not Annie what kind of double standard is this you ask? It’s my double standard.

Is this supposed to be a crumb?

[Brian Skies]

Actually fuck, look at the time between 3519 to 3648. The dude was thinking about his reads in forward for 3 hours

-E

Eh? Those readslists were responses to different posts. The second one probably took me about 20 minutes, give or take. I appreciate the defense, but iso'ing without context will burn you.

What's a normal Brian pattern?

That’s very even handed Brian.

Crumb?

[Brian Skies]

That’s paranoid town bell tho.
I’m never sure if i’m Being taken for a ride from high efforting what do you mean i’m Being paranoid of you but not Annie what kind of double standard is this you ask? It’s my double standard.

Is this supposed to be a crumb?

Not really. I kinda crumbed a it’s “because it’s me that i’m Paranoid of you” thing.

Why would you crumb this?

[Brian Skies]

I just can’t solve as scum.
Like at all.
I don’t put on a shit eating grin and laugh like i’m BM when i’m Scum this game.
Like just iso me. It’s long but there’s a lot of consistently and readily available explanation for any thought process I may have whether I say it then or later, it still gets said eventually

*i’m a LOT* more vague as scum
And also, I can barely talk to my scum partners but i’ve Evenly distributed my interactions with players for the most part, or at least haven’t avoided anyone.

Uh, just a whole lotta reasons i’m Not scum this game.

This one.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Bell

[Brian Skies]

Because I'm struggling to see a town you thinking it would be a good idea to crumb an even-night modifier to a full protective role.

Why would you think that's a good idea?

[Brian Skies]

I've tried to eliminate Cop/Gunsmith/weird PT role with alignment sniffing dog thing before/modconfirmed loud doctor before. So this shouldn't really surprise anyone.

[Brian Skies]

How is this Cabd's screw-up again?

[Brian Skies]

I don't think anyone thinks you're scum for being a 'doctor.'

Pretty sure the issue is that you changed your crumbs after an IC's death.

[Brian Skies]

Titus is still scum though.

[Brian Skies]

Cabd? Shouldn't you feel bad for me if you're actually town and Titus is scum here?

[Brian Skies]

So I'm trying to figure out Bell's thought process as either alignment.

Town Bell: I protected TammyCho, but scum killed them, so now I'm going to crumb an Even-Night Modifier because lying about roles has always been a good idea for townies.

Scum Bell (literally the only thing I can think of): I'm going to crumb doc, kill IC TammyCho and crumb Even Night Modifier, but claim I protected TammyCho Night 1 anyway just in case I was tracked or something.

[Brian Skies]

Fferyhydra thinks 4204 was probably less likely to be a crumb just based on the general flow of things.

I think it looks pretty shady in juxtaposition with 4272 though.

[Brian Skies]

I'm sorry, what does the Alone stuff have to do with anything? I fail to see how that's a crumb.

[Brian Skies]

wouldn't 4272 be a crumb for Not Even

Spoiler:

How so?

It looks like a crumb for an Even-Night Modifier.

[Brian Skies]

Supposedly Cabd is saying he started crumbing this stuff when pressed and Bell is somewhat confirming that it's supposed to be Cabd's fault that Bell even crumbed this.

[Brian Skies]

HP, while you're here, I made a Titus-case.

Did you read it?

[Brian Skies]

who uses "Not" to crumb a role modifier?

this argument feels dumb

This is surprisingly convincing.

[Brian Skies]

wait, is some moron in the shit timeline making the case that he crumbed even night doc and then decided not to claim even night doc? lol

Yes.

Your favorite person.

[Brian Skies]

Well, I did say I was going to end Titus today.

VOTE: Titus

[Brian Skies]

okay so optimal play then is to flip both of you because then we're guaranteed to hit scum, right skitter?

Oh how the turn tables.

[Brian Skies]

Some of the claims work in both timelines.

[Brian Skies]

they already forfeited that right after their atrocious eod1

Says the guy from the thread that eliminated Flavor Leaf Day 1 and is now trying to shift the blame onto Pooky.

[Brian Skies]

most of the claims so far have claimed something in this timeline right? shellyc's role was the only one claimed for the other timeline?

Also pretty sure her role still functioned in this timeline. She just got to receive her result as well if she went to the other timeline.

[Brian Skies]

baw we killed an erratic vt who selfhammered and probably had scum give themselves away trying to kill him

fucking blow me dude

Don't get mad when the pot gets called out for calling the kettle black.

[Brian Skies]

But the Tammy kill was excellent.

I find the smiley face here unnerving.

[Brian Skies]

theoretically what happens to the purple room if one person gets voted in and then also gets voted out? would that mean the person on the other side can just freely swap over with no consequences?

starting to think that's actually optimal use of the purple room

don't ask why i started thinking this, spiffeh

someone said people who go to the purple room can swap timelines

i wanna know what happens if only one person goes to the purple room due to the other being voted out

I wouldn't be opposed to voting out our Purple Room candidate if there weren't any better options.

[Brian Skies]

Bell the dark timeline really wants you dead

I went out of may way to make a case on Titus and all you want to talk about is what the other thread wants to do?

I'm deeply disappointed right now.

[Brian Skies]

so I thought some more and I thini skitter is scum because watcher+ic vs strongman is a shitty unfun mechanic for scum and I don't think cakezz would design a shit setup. Doc+ic vs strongman sounds way better.

also the idea that skitter is actively wrong about me + nachotammy in one game might actually just be outside her townrange

That the vis in inverted are taking her off the table pretty much confirms she's scum as well

-E

Let's be real here.

I feel like the issue isn't so much the Doc+Watcher combination. Especially since not only does the Watcher have to be town enough to convince the other side to turnstile them, but to do so in a way that doesn't let them get instantly rekt by the scumteam after doing so. If anything, it could be to reward the town with a way to get a solve in our thread for good play.

The combination I have an issue with is the Doc+BG combination (which comes online starting Day 4 and possibly earlier if the Doctor finds a way to get turnstiled to the other side), which would require the scumteam to have some sort of answer to prevent circular protections (a la strongman, roleblocker, or other appropriate counters).

[Brian Skies]

i wasnt suggesting do that, just wondering what would happen

seemed like an extra way to abuse the n2 confirmation mechanic if it could have been used

Feels like a lost opportunity.

We'll just have to move on without it.

[Brian Skies]

He is claiming vt in inverse thread

Okay.

Even then, the issue still comes around Day 4. And for both to be true, the scumteam would need some way to deal with that (and I don't see how a scum-Strongman or -Roleblocker are unreasonable).

I also don't really have an issue with the combination of Doc + IC + Watcher that needs to get turnstiled.

Like, I just find the entire mechanics argument to be rather unconvincing.

[Brian Skies]

Brian do you think titus typically does outlandish things as scum to mirror her townplay? Wouldn't that reauire her to see her own play as outlandish, which may be a commonplace, but I'm not sure is something she internalizes?

-E

I know she's been accused of trying to do it as scum before.

There's a reason why she has the title that she has.

[Brian Skies]

Irt to the 1300s, you don't think asking for pushback may have been looking to see who would engage her thoughts in this thread? I

A lot of these things are not bad in isolation. Like it it were just one thing, I wouldn't be that confident in voting her. But when looking at her overall play (as well as her reactive push to me today after I voted her), I feel like it makes a decent amount of sense that she's just scum here.

[Brian Skies]

I don't think Titus' early game was townish and I don't know why you get that impression unless you just think Skitter/LLD are/were scummy.

But if this is the townblocking thread, she would need to solidify her position here anyway.

[Brian Skies]

Her sheeping your Muffin-case also wasn't great and I'm pretty sure never explained either.

[Brian Skies]

I mean, she hasn't even explained how there's a connection between the Pooky turnstile and myself. Not really sure what you'd expect her to say to my wall.

I want to know your opinions of it as it is now.

[Brian Skies]

I do think lld/skitter are/were scummy. I think it is almost impossible for skitter to be as aggressively wrong about as many things as she has been this game.

But yeah I should let titus respond to your wall.

-E

If you think her pushes against LLD/Skitter are okay, then I want to know your opinion of her pushes being so awful in this thread.

[Brian Skies]

I'm very worried this is outside her range of emotional AtE as scum. Do you see why I'd have that worry?

No.

[Brian Skies]

Let me rephrase that.

I understand why you'd have that worry. I think her overall play (especially this Day Phase) is concerning enough that I don't think it's a very good reason to take her off the table or assume she's outside of her scum range.

I also feel like that comment has more to do with her overall playstyle change and not so much her play here.

[Brian Skies]

I think fire is probably town just based on some of his interactions with me. And because he's showing signs of frustration this game that just feel townish to me.

I was leaning scum on LLD early on. I still don't think her throwing out all those reads like she did was natural (but if someone knows if this is something she does as town, then it just becomes very meh to me). I didn't really like her push against Owl thinking he was new and I still think it's probably more likely she did that because we already all saw her do it as town to unwnd in Xenoblade 2 last game (except, like I said earlier, unwnd's join date at least gives the impression he's a newer player). Her fake Dayvig on Day 2 is really weird as well, and I've mostly paused on it because Gyx faked one on Day 1 and I highly doubted they were both scum because of it.

[Brian Skies]

I need to go to the bert caves. Urgently.

The hole in one in four might be Peta.

And my theory about the combo pizza on that same page is now fact in evidence.

Chicken respite for now, this might be tofu after all, rejoice, spiffeh.

yeah honestly I'm done playing with this and with you.

Shoot one, vote the other. One scum in you and deacon every time.

Unloop: Dandelion Wine

Die. Just... die.

This was the beginning of that 'dayvig' thing LLD decided to run with.

[Brian Skies]

BS just times the turnstyle revelation when his buddy is about to be eliminated. So instead he gets turnstyled. Pro scum.

Except I never actually voted to turnstile Pisskop (although I did vote him when he refused to turnstile)?

[Brian Skies]

I'm still waiting for Titus to say something that isn't outright bullshit. Also getting tired of calling her out on it and think people should just sheep me.

[Brian Skies]

It seems like Titus scumreads Brian and Brian scumreads Titus.

Instead of cyclular stuff I would like everyone in the other thread to decide now

Who would you rather lim today?

Titus
Brian
Or
Neither, both too townie.

I want answers someone beam me over.

[Brian Skies]

I said Brian might be lockscum mechanically and that's when he turned on me.

Not really. I just had to iso you and was like 'wow, Titus might actually just be scum.' Your quick turnaround after rushing into the thread when I voted you just sealed it for me.

You've also failed to substantiate anything you've claimed regarding me.

[Brian Skies]

I was actually following Cabd + ffery but HP broke me out of it.

[Brian Skies]

Still waiting on connection between me + Pooky turnstile.

And I guess me + Pisskop turnstile because apparently I led that one too.

[Brian Skies]

Why didn't we eliminate pisskop and turnstyle shellyc? Because scum are using the turnstyle mechanic to rescue scum.

Here's another thing I want substantiated from Titus.

Because I clearly had Shelly in my turnstile pool and Pisskop in my elimination pool.

So how did I manipulate this to do the opposite again?

[Brian Skies]

Spiffeh, it's a bad idea. Scum is Brian. He's setting town up to take the fall on a Bell miselimination.

Who exactly am I setting up here?

[Brian Skies]

Brian's OMGUSing hard

>Titus states townread on me
>Brian votes Titus, says will make case
>Titus 180's read and tries to scumread me off of bullshit

And somehow I'm the one OMGUS'ing.

[Brian Skies]

[Brian Skies]

Like if anyone seriously thinks anything Titus has done in our 1v1 is townish, I want to hear what it is.

[Brian Skies]

The fact is Brian's role is a one shot get out of free card for scum. When I highlighted this, he turned on me.

You said nothing of the sort before I voted you, so you using it as a reason to scumread me is scummy af. But go ahead and keep revising history.

Titus what's your read on Brian?

I feel Brian is tonally town but may be scum mechanically

Definitely not A CC and no desire to eliminate Brian atm

VOTE: Titus

Been doing Xmas prep. Will catch up asap.

I'm actually highly appreciative of Muffin pushing Gyx for this.

I was hoping to get someone else to make a case for me, and I suppose we can just have Gyx do it.

I feel like I'm probably going to end up making one anyway (although you all may have to wait for it since I'll be busy this weekend).

If you all just want to vote Titus of your own discretion, then that works too.

I haven't read this stuff in the middle, but this makes me suspect of BS scum with SS.

If SS is scum, scum want me dead prior to the merge. I'm not obvtowning enough to make that happen so BS pushes on me. Add in the fact the mechanics FoS them a bit and welll...

Titus, why is Brian Skies scummy?

The forcing a swap mechanic seems like a get out of jail card for scum here. The fact it was used to swap rather than eliminate pooky raises eyebrows of S S.

Brian could also be provoking LLD.

[Brian Skies]

Still waiting on connection between me + Pooky turnstile.

And I guess me + Pisskop turnstile because apparently I led that one too.

Why didn't we eliminate pisskop and turnstyle shellyc? Because scum are using the turnstyle mechanic to rescue scum.

Here's another thing I want substantiated from Titus.

Because I clearly had Shelly in my turnstile pool and Pisskop in my elimination pool.

So how did I manipulate this to do the opposite again?

Spiffeh, it's a bad idea. Scum is Brian. He's setting town up to take the fall on a Bell miselimination.

Who exactly am I setting up here?

Answer these posts Titus.

[Brian Skies]

U omgused after 3347

So you think I decide to OMGUS you after you indicate in 3348 (the very next post) that you had no desire to eliminate me?

I don't buy it.

[Brian Skies]

You rescued turnstyled scum

Who is this person I rescued?

[Brian Skies]

Literal scumflail from Titus right now.

[Brian Skies]

Pooky and Pisskop

What are you even talking about?

And you still haven't explained what connection I have to either of those turnstiles.

[Brian Skies]

Your role

Explain the scum motivation Titus.

Because your argument is that my role makes me scum. And people have explained why that isn't true.

You've also claimed I influenced the turnstile to land on Pisskop and the elimination on Shelly when I clearly had Shelly in my turnstile pool and Pisskop in my elimination pool. I also never voted to turnstile Pisskop and actually voted to eliminate him when he refused to turnstile. So how did I influence this turnstile?

You've also claimed I turnstiled Pooky to protect him, except I had nothing to do with his turnstile. Like at all. So how did I influence that turnstile?

You're claiming I'm setting someone up for a fall after the Bell elimination. Who am I setting up?

What about HP's 'case' on Muffin did you agree with it? Why should I believe you were doing anything other than just opportunistically jumping onto a potential Muffin wagon?

I don't really believe you seriously think I'm OMGUS'ing you here. You opened up with a townread on me and you stated you had no interest in eliminating me anyway. So how is it an OMGUS?

Nothing you've said against me has been substantiated. It's not a buzzword. It's a fact.

[Brian Skies]

And literally, all you're doing is going 'Brian is scum' but you've failed to offer anything up of value and all your claims are provably false.

[Brian Skies]

'I can't explain why Brian is scum so I will towncase everyone else instead'

Lmao

[Brian Skies]

hp sort of accidentally towncasing brian? is the first thing ive liked from them, though if they set out to towncase him (which i should double check) then never mind

Pretty sure they straight up towncased me.

[Brian Skies]

Well maybe not. I think I misread what you were saying.

I'm curious about it now too.

[Brian Skies]

Well, probably not so much a towncase as an isodive. And they waffled back and forth on it quite a bit it seems.

[Brian Skies]

I wouldn't hold it against you. I'm very clearly asking you to sheep me.

[Brian Skies]

evidence

Lol.

[Brian Skies]

evidence

Lol.

This isn’t super thoughtful.

Okay, Bell.

What evidence has she brought up to support her claims against me? Because last time I checked, she's either refused to do so or has been unable to do so since being told she's making shit up.

[Brian Skies]

No I mean, are you just instantly assuming that her claim is fake or something?

Has she even claimed?

[Brian Skies]

Why do you automatically assume she couldn't be scum for just indicating being a PR anyway?

[Brian Skies]

I don't understand why I should care about her 'soft' when she hasn't said what it is.

Also, I don't care about claims that are brought up while under pressure. She could literally just be doing it for self-preservation.

Why are you automatically assuming it's town and not just to buddy you?

[Brian Skies]

Game's unbalanced anyway.

Could just be salty scum here.

[Brian Skies]

Why haven't you actually attempted to sort my soft? First you ignore it, but then you shade it as scum.

You once proclaimed Bell was scum, but you treat him here like town with zero transistion from your vote.

You don't care what my soft is. You haven't even acknowledged my Beam it over post because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Why should I give a shit about your 'soft' when you've only introduced it under pressure?

I only voted Bell because I thought he was crumbing his role and then changed it to an even night modifier. HP brought up the point that the post we all think he was crumbing Even Night could just as easily be interpreted as him claiming Not Even, and that it was a stupid argument anyway.

You also haven't acknowledged you could be wrong on your read on me despite being told all your reasons are wrong, so why should I care?

[Brian Skies]

Game's unbalanced anyway.

Could just be salty scum here.

/:

Let's be real here, Bell.

Do you think it's more likely for town to be complaining about lack of balance on Day 2 when we don't even know the majority of the setup, or scum that at least knows what they have?

[Brian Skies]

He's deflecting from the fact he doesn't care what my soft is. He just wants me dead.

What a shocking revelation.

[Brian Skies]

I really could have appreciated you registering that rather than keeping that shift under your hat Brian.

I very clearly moved my vote to Titus and have been pushing her and clearly said I think the mechanics discussion was unconvincing.

[Brian Skies]

Again, do you even care about my perspective at all to sort me? No.

I very do care about your perspective, but your perspective is built on a house of cards and I already knocked it down.

[Brian Skies]

And when asked to expand on your perspective, or to reconsider based on me telling you you're wrong, you have instead replied with either radio silence or pushing other false claims and refusing to substantiate those as well.

So you claiming I don't care about your perspective is bullshit.

[Brian Skies]

Brian Skies explain to me why your case can't be explained away simply by: "It's Titus"

Because Titus is fucking scum.

And I think rewarding a player with awful play by just going 'well that's just XX' is awful.

[Brian Skies]

Bolded is why I SR Brian. If he has a choice between losing his buddies to death or by turnstyle, which does he pick? Turnstyle. That's literally the crux of my case.

I would be intellectually dishonest to say the two are independent. The fact we need a scum elimination to have any shot at ICs makes it that much easier to tunnel.

I'll go through my ISO to show exactly how my read on you evolved.

Except I told you I had nothing to do with EITHER turnstile, and you've failed to prove why you think this is the case.

Which is why your reasoning is bullshit.

[Brian Skies]

Being a lover, suggests a doc exists. 2 kpn suggests a doc exists.

Bell is fucking town.

Not really.

A doc and lover can exist without the other just fine.

[Brian Skies]

You have everything to deal with both being turnstyled. Without you it cannot happen.

You could have kept your mouth shut and we turnstyle with more information and to be protown.

Instead, you rescue your team.

So by me claiming my role I have to be scum and I picked for those to happen. Instead of you know, just launching null reads and outright eliminating scum.

Wow.

Just.

Wow.

[Brian Skies]

Bell, why do you believe a Lover implies the presence of a Doctor? And/or vice versa?

[Brian Skies]

lovers that only exist in inverted thread doesn't suggest a forwards doc exists to me at all.

What's your opinion on this, Bell?

[Brian Skies]

As claimed, her role doesn't even function with yours.

[Brian Skies]

So apparently Titus' role may function with Bell's.

Either way, idk why you think there can't be a scum lover.

[Brian Skies]

Like, I don't even care about her claim.

I think she's scum off of play.

[Brian Skies]

Lovers are not masons. I am aware. But i’m Asking how *scum* Titus benefits.

Because I'm trying to eliminate the fuck out of her and she's now using this as a 'get out of being eliminated for free' card.

I haven't read this stuff in the middle, but this makes me suspect of BS scum with SS.

If SS is scum, scum want me dead prior to the merge. I'm not obvtowning enough to make that happen so BS pushes on me. Add in the fact the mechanics FoS them a bit and welll...

And now you think that she's town for her claim despite supposedly trying to tie me to her supposed 'lover's' flip?

[Brian Skies]

How does this make sense to you Bell?

[Brian Skies]

Like I don't know how you can sit here and let Titus be like 'I must be town because I'm a Lover and I think my role implies Doctor' despite there being no correlation between the two roles having to exist together and when she's also been trying to tie her own Lover's flip to me.

I'm literally unraveling all of her play right now and people are like "yeah, idk, maybe it's just Titus being Titus."

And her push on me is awful anyway.

[Brian Skies]

SS confirmed it.

You also literally just quoted a lover crumb btw. If SS is scum, you want me dead before we get to the same timeline. Not sure if SS is, but you literally quoted a crumb to shade my claim.

Until you reconcile your push on me, I'm going to end you.

[Brian Skies]

I'm not trying to eliminate Bell. I'm trying to get him to vote you.

Idk what your fascination is with me trying to get Bell when I moved away from that many pages ago.

[Brian Skies]

Like, I haven't even asked you for much Titus.

Just for you to explain your claims on me. But you can't even do that and your only defense to that is 'oh I will just towncase everyone else' or 'I'm a lover.'

[Brian Skies]

When did I deny a Doctor?

[Brian Skies]

so I thought some more and I thini skitter is scum because watcher+ic vs strongman is a shitty unfun mechanic for scum and I don't think cakezz would design a shit setup. Doc+ic vs strongman sounds way better.

also the idea that skitter is actively wrong about me + nachotammy in one game might actually just be outside her townrange

That the vis in inverted are taking her off the table pretty much confirms she's scum as well

-E

Let's be real here.

I feel like the issue isn't so much the Doc+Watcher combination. Especially since not only does the Watcher have to be town enough to convince the other side to turnstile them, but to do so in a way that doesn't let them get instantly rekt by the scumteam after doing so. If anything, it could be to reward the town with a way to get a solve in our thread for good play.

The combination I have an issue with is the Doc+BG combination (which comes online starting Day 4 and possibly earlier if the Doctor finds a way to get turnstiled to the other side), which would require the scumteam to have some sort of answer to prevent circular protections (a la strongman, roleblocker, or other appropriate counters).

He is claiming vt in inverse thread

Okay.

Even then, the issue still comes around Day 4. And for both to be true, the scumteam would need some way to deal with that (and I don't see how a scum-Strongman or -Roleblocker are unreasonable).

I also don't really have an issue with the combination of Doc + IC + Watcher that needs to get turnstiled.

Like, I just find the entire mechanics argument to be rather unconvincing.

Does this sound to you like I'm discounting the possibility of a Doctor being in this game?

[Brian Skies]

I already did what you asked. You repeating it is spam.

No you haven't. Where have you done this?

[Brian Skies]

Your role

Explain the scum motivation Titus.

Because your argument is that my role makes me scum. And people have explained why that isn't true.

You've also claimed I influenced the turnstile to land on Pisskop and the elimination on Shelly when I clearly had Shelly in my turnstile pool and Pisskop in my elimination pool. I also never voted to turnstile Pisskop and actually voted to eliminate him when he refused to turnstile. So how did I influence this turnstile?

You've also claimed I turnstiled Pooky to protect him, except I had nothing to do with his turnstile. Like at all. So how did I influence that turnstile?

You're claiming I'm setting someone up for a fall after the Bell elimination. Who am I setting up?

What about HP's 'case' on Muffin did you agree with it? Why should I believe you were doing anything other than just opportunistically jumping onto a potential Muffin wagon?

I don't really believe you seriously think I'm OMGUS'ing you here. You opened up with a townread on me and you stated you had no interest in eliminating me anyway. So how is it an OMGUS?

Nothing you've said against me has been substantiated. It's not a buzzword. It's a fact.

This is the post I want you to respond to.

And you just going 'you claimed your role' does nothing to satisfy any of it.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian like we got neighborized night one so pre-existing neighborhood that is ALSO cross-temporal is ????

What is this in reference to?

[Brian Skies]

What's a super perspective?

[Brian Skies]

Come on.
Brian also shifting the goal posts and while they admitted they don’y care about this past their read of her play this is just a super perspective

Look, man.

I'm not discounting that her claim could exist. But it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be town.

She's also complaining that I'm not reconsidering my read on her despite her claim when I've been scumreading her for things outside of this specific thing.

And she also hasn't once reconsidered her read on me the instant I voted her, so why should I care about how she feels about me not reconsidering my read on her?

[Brian Skies]

Through the dialectical method I've determined that Titus is probably just scum.

Your move.

[Brian Skies]

i think it would actually be an interesting mechanic to force this on scum and watch what they do to avoid the turnstile

I actually wouldn't be surprised if claiming this role is supposed to be their way of avoiding a turnstile.

[Brian Skies]

Just gunna out right say: currently, I think you dug in when Titus pushed back and lost perspective because you’re scum

Well shit. I must be scum then. May as well vote me now.

[Brian Skies]

UNVOTE: Titus

[Brian Skies]

for reasons i just wanna kill pooky again. i realize this will not make brian happy and that is unfortunate but his popin was abominable

I'm currently of the opinion that I'd just be incredibly appreciative to see more flips from my side.

And we've sent you three different slots.

If there's anything I've gotten out of today, it's that I probably wouldn't care all that much if A50 got eliminated anymore. And I feel pretty good about you and don't particularly care if Pooky has to be eliminated if it would help your reads (although I still don't think Pooky is scum, especially with how he stated reasons to townread Shelly on his way out of our thread when most of us wanted to end her).

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Titus

[Brian Skies]

@ Other Thread
Bsky, tell this to Titus.

Your case on me being the only scum relies on three things:

A) I have a turnstile that I can use to send people to the other timeline
B) I'd use this to send my entire team to the other timeline in order to play solo here.
C) I also have a strongman ability that I used to shoot the IC through doc protection.

It's pretty unlikely that scum have a Turnstiling Strongman because like wtf

Pooky got your back Homie.

[Brian Skies]

I was thinking of her argument about there needing to be two or more doctors to protect the lovers with the presence of two night kills.

There are a lot of problems with this.

1) They would just claim their role and we would probably just not turnstile them.
2) The two claimed protective roles we have claim they can only use their role in their current timestream, so it would be impossible to protect both anyway. And their roles seem to only function if they both exist in the same timestream.
3) By the time the timestreams converge, the scumteam goes back to one night kill (presumably) and I think the need for town to have two or more protective roles sitting on the lovers is silly and probably not an expectation we should have. Like have you seen any games where multiple doctors were included just to protect lovers? Or any game where protecting the lovers was a requirement to win?

I'm just struggling to see this here.

[Brian Skies]

Brian I feel like this “doctor must exist with lovers” thing seems like actual moon logic

I honestly just feel like this is some last dash play by Titus thinking that claiming to protect Bell from the big bad Brian will make people think she's town, even though I'd already lost interest in the Bell wagon before she came back in to catch up.

[Brian Skies]

Oh yes, I shouldn't say "thread." Same timestream. The timestreams remain separate even after the merge.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Like just sit down and think about this:

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?


And if you do... why TELL them about it?

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?

Because he wanted to add in more effects that have to do with inversion to make it more likely to be relevant?

And if you do... why TELL them about it?

It would be incredibly rude bordering on bastard to not.

also SS i don't think im risking anyting by defending u. nor do i think im hard defending u.

I think what you're risking as scum is losing the ability to mis-exe me.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Yes.

I would think it's meant to be negative utility (either for both of us if we're both town, or for the scum one if one of us is scum).

[Brian Skies]

Idk why people think an S_S elimination would deter me from eliminating Titus today.

Especially since this is our last opportunity for a potential full thread clear.

[Brian Skies]

@Peta: Fair enough.

[Brian Skies]

And what I mean by the way she goes about her claim is:

She reveals her role to try to prove something about the setup. I don't agree with her, but I think that's a towny mindset. I don't think this is a fake claim or something that would remove pressure from herself.

I've already explained why I disagree with this.

I also think we've already moved past this being a fakeclaim.

[Brian Skies]

I honestly just feel like this is some last dash play by Titus thinking that claiming to protect Bell from the big bad Brian will make people think she's town, even though I'd already lost interest in the Bell wagon before she came back in to catch up.

[Brian Skies]

Oh yes, I shouldn't say "thread." Same timestream. The timestreams remain separate even after the merge.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Like just sit down and think about this:

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?


And if you do... why TELL them about it?

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?

Because he wanted to add in more effects that have to do with inversion to make it more likely to be relevant?

And if you do... why TELL them about it?

It would be incredibly rude bordering on bastard to not.

also SS i don't think im risking anyting by defending u. nor do i think im hard defending u.

I think what you're risking as scum is losing the ability to mis-exe me.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Yes.

I would think it's meant to be negative utility (either for both of us if we're both town, or for the scum one if one of us is scum).

Some more stuff for Dunn I guess.

[Brian Skies]

If they become tied together day 4, and we think one of them is scum, it's best to take care of them before day 4.

According to S_S, they only become tied together if one of them TURNSTILES. So they wouldn't automatically become tied together on Day 4.

[Brian Skies]

I feel like if Titus is scum here, then the S_S wagon flared up either to protect her or to guarantee the S_S elimination. I haven't really been reading S_S posts though.

[Brian Skies]

going to have to take this in parts because it's kinda long but just reading down it seems predicated on flips of other people

Isn't this what the majority of this game is predicated on anyway?

Like, I don't really go 'oh these two players seem like they could be paired so one or both must be scum.' I was suspecting her for a bit based on some of her interactions, and while some of them can be explained by her role, her push on me is still scummy af and I'm probably going to end her for it.

Not to mention her vote on Muffin wasn't that great.

And I still think she was pussyfooting around Pisskop on Day 1.

[Brian Skies]

An SS wagon wouldn't protect me at all unless SS is also scum. The eliminations are independent. If SS is scum, you should be thankful for a scum elimination. It's almost as if you know though that if SS flips scum, he'll flip as I claimed though clearing me.

It would if their goal is to just get you past Day 2 and prevent the full thread clear.

[Brian Skies]

It wouldn't work either. SS doesn't flip first. Flips are at the same time.

Then we're in agreement that we're still eliminating you.

[Brian Skies]

No. We're in agreement that you're desperate to eliminate me. There's no one else who is actually pushable as a miselimination because I won't let you.

That's precisely how you play negative utility.

I'm not really desperate at all. Even Dunn's realized this.

And even if you're town here (which I highly doubt), no one else seems to have a clue who scum are anyway.

Like, you're push on me has literally devolved into 'I'm just gonna towncase everyone else.'

Oh. So town.

[Brian Skies]

Yes, actually.

You're the one I think is most likely to be scum.

[Brian Skies]

I'm not going to read your towncases.

I don't think you're town.

We're eliminating you or we're eliminating me (I'm really fine with either).

[Brian Skies]

I think it should be pretty clear that I care a lot less about townreads at this point in the game. I don't think it's going to go anywhere.

The goal is to eliminate scum.

[Brian Skies]

By proving everyone else is town, or by proving your target is scum.

Well, since you've already decided everyone else is town, then there's no point in even having this discussion.

[Brian Skies]

By showing that your rationale is wrong/fabricated,

Says the person who had every claim against me proven false and continued to spin bullshit.

[Brian Skies]

I'm not giving you an out Titus.

[Brian Skies]

My reads aren't fabricated.

I've already proven your scumread on me is. You also haven't explained why you sheeped HP onto Muffin.

There's no need for me to go into other reads when you may as well just be the last scum here. I have no reason to give you an out here unless I think you're town, which I don't. So instead of pushing me for another scumread, which I'm not going to give you, I suggest you actually figure something else out. Like, idk, convincing other people I'm scum or something (which you seem to have been doing a splendid job of doing anyway).

Idk what you expect to get out of someone you supposedly think is scum anyway.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian Ask her how you shot Imperium dead if you aren't a strongman

Pooky, I feel like this can easily be explained by A50 being potential scum, who I forced the turnstile on.

And A50's been crumbing a separate confirmable role anyway.

[Brian Skies]

Answer Pooky 5701. Answer who your other scumreads are.

?

[Brian Skies]

Either yours or mine, apparently.

[Brian Skies]

But I don't really see how a strongman can't be a lover, especially since Lover is just a modifier, no?

[Brian Skies]

A two-ability JOAT. I feel cheated.

[Brian Skies]

My role is proven to be neighbor. Nice try though.

I still don't see how this prevents you from having other abilities, as if Neighbors have never been PRs.

[Brian Skies]

You might have more. Who knows?

I might.

Who knows?

[Brian Skies]

Yo Brian, did you ever explain why you activated the second turnstile when you did? Why not do it at the start of the day?

Why would I do it at the start of the game?

I wasn't sure what to do with my ability when I got it because I wasn't sure what the point of turnstiling was or if I even wanted players to change threads. I thought the idea of yeeting scummy players out of our thread seemed interesting, but there wasn't really a point in activating it if the other side doesn't cooperate. My role also doesn't change if I turnstile, so there's the possibility I could've just went to the other side and activated it over there.

If your thread was against it, then it mostly just comes down to 'do we need the extra turnstile today or not' and 'do I really think any of these players need and/or deserve to turnstile today'.

I actually had no idea how my ability would work once I activated it. It just said it works like the regular public turnstile and that it would be in my current timestream, so I assumed we could have two wagons at the same time or something.

[Brian Skies]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you activated it before claiming, right?

I would expect that the two ways to play the role would be to (a) use it immediately so the town can play around its existence or (b) hold on to it and try to use it when it will actually be useful. But if you were doing (b), there seems to be little downside to claiming first and asking if people think you should use it immediately (if you judge that it might be useful, as you evidently did).

I softed it or heavily indicated it to the point that it was basically hardclaimed before I activated it.

I could have claimed it from the get go, but I don't really think that's necessary. Yes, I could've claimed first, but I think it's more interesting to see what people think and how they react to it if they don't, and I can easily get their opinions on things through discussion. It's also less likely for people to just be like 'oh there's no way that claim is scum' or 'oh there's no way that claim is town'. I don't really want other people to read me that way.

I can also decide whether I want to use my ability or if I want to go a different route depending on how the game plays out.

Like, if no one even wanted to turnstile Day 1 or there wasn't a need to turnstile, do we even need an extra one?

I don't really see a reason to give scum free information on an ability that town doesn't absolutely need to know about (and I didn't really think it was some super amazing ability when I got it anyway; still don't).

[Brian Skies]

Effort != town.

[Brian Skies]

peta what do you love about brian's titus case?

-b

the part about going along with the pooky turnstile then trying to paint it as somehow scum driven in particular is like, sum going with the flow then trying to blame people for it afterward. the bad sheepvote on hench's muffin case that wasn't very good, the continued nonsensical push on brian that doesn't seem to have a basis other than conspiracy theory level setup spec reasoning and seems to have been timed to brian starting to suspect her

the early stuff about potential distancing is w/e but i think if you look at it in total it doesn't look like a believable scumhunting process, people just go "ohh that crazy titus" but like, i don't think there's a single read there that is good to me. (the early scumread on muffin was particularly bad but gave it a pass at the time). also the number of scumreads on our thread is kind of ??? because i certainly can hardly process the other thread except to occasionally idly snipe at people, i don't buy having that many reads on us.

then titus comes back with shit like this

Why didn't we eliminate pisskop and turnstyle shellyc? Because scum are using the turnstyle mechanic to rescue scum.

and is trying to string up

Brian

for it when

she voted for those turnstiles and Brian did not

. it's crap and an obvious reach


also searched my soul and while i feel like there's a decent chance a pisskop elim is what scum wants from us, it's probably beneficial to do it anyway and sooner is better than later; i'm just not going to delude myself into thinking it's likely to be a hit

UNVOTE: pisskop

I feel the sentiment behind 5675

also; i don't see scum midway comfortable enough in his own skin to just casually "i am feeling his post" me here; he probably either ignores it or engages me on the fact that i've quite obviously drawn no useful conclusion from it

this sort of stuff adds up and i keep seeing it from him

-b

i would agree with this, i think in general in general his posts show a lack of nervousness which is town for him


back to post restricting myself, got caught up in the energy of yesterday and was spoiling for a fight because i was bored

1/10

[Brian Skies]

I don't really know why you're so desperate to cling onto your Titus townread.

[Brian Skies]

I'll take the blame for it if I'm wrong.

But I'm also taking all the credit for it if I'm right.

[Brian Skies]

Well, I can share credit with Gyx and Peta.

[Brian Skies]

And Ceph.

[Brian Skies]

I WANT TO BELIEVE

I'm giving you a new thing to believe in.

And that's flipping scum.

[Brian Skies]

just lost a game to deadline crunch lol

The closer you play to a deadline the harder it gets to eliminate scum because you're not only relying on other town to actually be available to show up to vote or scum to help bus instead of abusing the deadline to not be helpful.

[Brian Skies]

Weird does not equal scum, I want to see if she has good explanations for each weirdness presented.

I don't really understand how complete mischaracterization of my play is considered weird and not scummy.

[Brian Skies]

I don't know what any of those acronyms mean.

[Brian Skies]

Bell, who do you think is scum?

[Brian Skies]

Well, her reasons have already been proven to be bullshit, so you can go ahead and cross those off.

[Brian Skies]

Flavor Leaf already flipped town this game and he was doing that. But I wasn't really paying attention to him when he got yeeted.

While I think it's possible for town to just be mistaken about things, I don't really think that's what Titus is doing here. She's dug in her heels despite being told her reasons are wrong and I feel like she's intentionally ignoring it to paint me in a scummy light, especially since a decent number of players aren't really paying much attention to this game anyway and continue to go 'oh why can't this just be Titus being Titus'.

[Brian Skies]

But each of them mischaracterized by town play as scum play
or mechanically reasoned incorrectly.

The difference here is that we legitimately thought you were crumbing doc and/or even night modifier. I think you can see that for yourself.

Titus has been straight up told that her reasons against me are wrong and she has had zero reconsideration. Yet for whatever reason you're just like 'oh Titus digging in must mean Titus is town whereas Brian digging in means Brian is scum.'

[Brian Skies]

If she flips town you realize that it was titus just being titus right?

And then if she flips scum that means she was just being scum?

[Brian Skies]

No, I'm telling you that she's probably just scum here.

And that your situation is not her situation.

[Brian Skies]

There's no sarcasm in that post.

[Brian Skies]

You weren't saying this.

You were arguing that it wasn't fair that I was applying a titus measurement stick to Titus.
But not applying a Titus measurement stick to Brian.

Oh, well, sure. We're definitely two different people.

But don't you think you saying 'Brian couldn't possibly want to dig in his heels against Titus here' to be rather unfair given the circumstances?

[Brian Skies]

Like, I think Cabd+ffery going 'Bell is definitely crumbing here' to be rather similar to Titus going 'Brian definitely influenced the Pisskop + Pooky turnstiles'.

Except that your posts did kinda sorta look like crumbs and I had nothing to do with those turnstiles.

[Brian Skies]

(This is as close as you're going to get to an endorsement to keep living, Bell, just take it before I go back into the death wind tunnel)

For the record, I am accepting that Bell issue is now effectively kicked down the road and can be re-evaluated as need be, if he lives to lategame ya'll can channel my "I told you so" or when I come back as a stump you can expect it then.

I actually have theories of Bell-scum universes that I've been withholding because I want to believe in a Bell-town universe, but he's making it difficult to do that.

[Brian Skies]

No, I'm saying I can't tell if your position here is because you legitimately think that Titus play here is just 'weird' rather than you being her buddy and trying to protect her.

[Brian Skies]

Like I was already completely off your wagon and pushing Titus when she came in and claimed to "protect Bell from Brian."

But you're like "I really can't see a world where scum-Titus does this and she definitely has to be town for it."

[Brian Skies]

Sure, I'm scum with Titus.
This makes sense and is definitely something you've thought deeply about.

If she doesn't flip some sort of strongman or other interference role, then yes, you're probably going to come under heavy scrutiny.

[Brian Skies]

I was thinking of her argument about there needing to be two or more doctors to protect the lovers with the presence of two night kills.

There are a lot of problems with this.

1) They would just claim their role and we would probably just not turnstile them.
2) The two claimed protective roles we have claim they can only use their role in their current timestream, so it would be impossible to protect both anyway. And their roles seem to only function if they both exist in the same timestream.
3) By the time the timestreams converge, the scumteam goes back to one night kill (presumably) and I think the need for town to have two or more protective roles sitting on the lovers is silly and probably not an expectation we should have. Like have you seen any games where multiple doctors were included just to protect lovers? Or any game where protecting the lovers was a requirement to win?

I'm just struggling to see this here.

Oh yes, I shouldn't say "thread." Same timestream. The timestreams remain separate even after the merge.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Like just sit down and think about this:

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?


And if you do... why TELL them about it?

Why put the lovers condition in, as a mod, when neighbors start already in opposite time streams; which is already "optimal neighbor placement"?

Because he wanted to add in more effects that have to do with inversion to make it more likely to be relevant?

And if you do... why TELL them about it?

It would be incredibly rude bordering on bastard to not.

also SS i don't think im risking anyting by defending u. nor do i think im hard defending u.

I think what you're risking as scum is losing the ability to mis-exe me.

This makes zero fucking sense then, if you're told of this property of your role PM you will literally never choose to do this.

Yes.

I would think it's meant to be negative utility (either for both of us if we're both town, or for the scum one if one of us is scum).

Bell, I'm curious to know your opinions on these things.

[Brian Skies]

I don't wanna be that guy, but this isn't a good post.

Am I wrong though?

[Brian Skies]

If Titus is somehow just incredibly wrong town here, then I will take all the blame for it. But I definitely won't apologize for it.

I just feel like she has to be scum here.

[Brian Skies]

100%
I'm a town doctor, that doesn't change based on titus's flip.

Maybe.

I guess I'm just hoping Titus is last scum here. And your positioning around our 1v1 makes me uncomfortable.

[Brian Skies]

I think S_S does not take this tack as scum, I think she got him on board.
I think they might not have agreed because Titus is quite strong headed and moves quickly to make decisions sometimes.

I don't understand this.

[Brian Skies]

Do you think two roles that only become Lovers if they're turnstiled makes sense a TvT? S_S is claiming that if they both make it to Day 4 without turnstiling, they will remain not-lovers.

Cabd has pointed out that this doesn't make sense as a mechanic because the two players would just never agree to becoming Lovers, and town would probably not force it upon them.

[Brian Skies]

Whatever Bell.

I see what you mean, but I've pretty much lost faith in you if you're town here.

[Brian Skies]

There is a role here that makes it so that you can trick someone into purple rooming and getting turnstiled.

Is there now?

[Brian Skies]

There is a role here that makes it so that you can trick someone into purple rooming and getting turnstiled.

Is there now?

Did I misread somewhere or aren't Superbowl and Spiffeh getting swapped out tonight?

That's not a role.

That's just how the Purple Room mechanic works.

[Brian Skies]

And they supposedly don't have to follow through with it.

[Brian Skies]

Oh.
Was that mentioned?

Yes.

[Brian Skies]

Seeing as how the turnstile requires the player's approval, I'd like to think it applies to the Purple Room as well.

[Brian Skies]

I can't reconsider if no one talks to me. I got spoken down to, which is a shame because y'all are wrong.

I honestly hope you're just scum here.

Because based on your blatant mischaracterization of my play this Day, I don't think I'd be okay with speaking with you again if you weren't.

[Brian Skies]

Did deacon and Imperium try to swap?
I missed this connection.

They had the option but left it for Spiffeh and Superbowl.

Apparently it's a one-time use.

[Brian Skies]

Town Titus changes her reads based on the evidence, no matter how she looks.

And when did you do this for me despite me constantly telling you your claims were wrong?

[Brian Skies]

Because my role doesn't make me lockscum.

[Brian Skies]

The current theory is they had sufficient reason to believe there was a protective role in our thread. Scum having a lover may or may not have implied it. Either that or they just believed they had sufficient reason to believe it was worth the risk.

[Brian Skies]

It's the IC preventer.

Oh?

How so?

[Brian Skies]

This would be incredibly cheap if Brianskies was scum here.

And if I were town?

[Brian Skies]

Brian it expliclty requires both parties to click the button willingly.

And no. We decided not to have them swap because they figured bell would protect them.

Cruel world.

[Brian Skies]

It shows you have a temper and hopefully you'll think better on it in the future.

Alright. I can take this.