Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Nancy Drew 39]

What really amuses me that none of the scumteam in Pooky vs FL were ever brazenly trying to mason hunt right in the game thread. I also said that scum wanted to push Starcrossed because Titus knew I had an extremely high chance of picking them. Well I actually said it was because of Pooky being MVP in FL vs Hectic but I think mason suspicions were the main reason.

Pyro/Titus would know it’d be beyond obvious that I tried to pick them, same thing with Morty and Rick. Why? because I’ve hydra’d numerous times with both Pooky and Auro.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

hello, this is mitsuha here. i had a feeling we would die tonight, so i prepared this during the night for nancy to release in the morning.

anyway, i just did some digging and am now convinced pyro is the last scum.

1: he really was mason-hunting us the whole game. anyone who knows me/pooky/nancy knows we're all pretty fond of each other, so we were a suspect from the beginning. with our play, being suspicious we were scum or mason is *fine*, but this is really the type of thing town keeps to themselves. saying this is also what i think is him trying to be overly transparent, i.e: telling us this was indeed something he thought of, when, like i said, he really should've kept this to himself.

2: i don't really buy his scumread of us and saying we're "really scummy". like, actually why? saying we're really scummy means there's apparently a lot of scummy motivation in our posts, but this was never explained. his scumread basically comes down to thinking my posting was "fine" and pooky is not as active as he normally is, which, he doesn't even know is a scumtell. i do feel like he *should* feel decently i'm town, and he *should* feel more confident on that than his random pooky read, but in the case where i'm wrong, i would like to see his in-depth thought process on why we've been scummy enough for this read, and you all and nancy can read through it to see if it's convincing. cause my read right now is this is just an excuse to keep mason-fishing/fishing for nancy's reaction

3: he shouldn't be suspicious of clidd. like with me, pyro has a decent amount of experience with clidd and can tell when he's being obvtown -- and i absolutely think clidd is being obvtown. take for example this game, and look at how he appeals to clidd, correctly pinning him as town

Spoiler:

clidd is an angelread

EE you've seen me gimmick all the time
eg posting like i learnt English from a llama as Hoctac in that large game
and then i got killed N1 lol
or posting with anime reaction images as Hel
i could go on

you really think the change in style could be scum-indicative?
sorry ! this just gets to me soemtimes because some people like Titus scumread me in every game because they see a change in playstyle and associate that with me being scum
it's a sigh ?_?

Also, Clidd?

Clidd is an angel
mindmelded with his thoughts on Green Crayon's mechposts
and his tone is free and towny

really just ctrl+f clidd

in this game, look at how he gets townpings on him immediately, but then disregards it

Spoiler:

this is kinda ... what's the word? theatrical? performative? idk don't like it tho

Performative and overconfident clidd is town!clidd. Leaning town on him. I agree with Akarin being towny though.

Alright, so mechanically speaking, it's always wrong to launch KidAmn today. If he's scum, he's always guiltied tomorrow (so please save us some time and concede if that's the case).

Well what do you propose instead? I would prefer to not start limming from my townblock yet.

Hm hm hm, it's tough. clidd, Pink Ball, Dunny.

clidd had a rough start imo but he's looked townier and townier recently, although parts of his Sarah push looked a little too confident for me but I don't know if that's scum TMI or clidd's supreme confidence.

Pink Ball had a really town entrance in the way he was trying to cooperate with you, and his reaction at the start of day 3 after Sherlock flipped scum seemed genuine.

Dunny has felt towny all game.

I'll have to look into them.

(p.s: does town!pyro really think dunn "has felt towny all game"? i find dunn kind of a hard read, but EH, whatever)
like basically, if i can say clidd's obvtown, pyro knows it too.

4: his latest posts. these are probably the worst offenders

how and why did scum!gamma claim even-night?

Could've just got lucky.

there is no way town!pyro handwaves something like this and *actually* believes it

I still think KidAmn over clidd though

clidd, was it a conscious effort to change your playstyle after olaf made his case on you?

clidd suspicion = bad, but the second line is especially "you-can't-seriously-be-thinking-this" feeling. i guess this one is a vibe-read

5: the fey kill reason is moot. fey/morning/us are mechclear; we are all going to die eventually. pyro wasn't especially in any danger yesterday to need help.

5: general play. reevaluating his play in this game, he's played a fairly conventional game. he hasn't done anything especially controversial/stuck his neck out for something he believes. he doesn't have any towny instances where he looks superbly bad because he's uninformed and town. the fact that he was bussing the right people at the right time makes me think he's moreso scum, really, cause his main objective is to look good here

lastly, i want to apologise for my awful play in this game; i really didn't put enough effort into this as i should have. pyro's played well and this kinda sucks for him, but yeah, @TOWN, please VOTE: pyro, and never ever ever vote clidd. for the spirit of mistuha, PLEASE. good luck, friends! o7



~mitsuha[/quote]

Kanna requested that this be posted if she dies. I got permission to direct quote it.[/quote]



That's quite a pleasant surprise. It's interesting and scary at the same time that Kanna manages to maintain a 100% accuracy in her reads about me in every game we play. Also makes me question whether I will be caught easily at the time when we were of opposite alignments.

Regarding the read on Pyro, I had a different conclusion about the slot after a re-reading, but if he's the person I think Kanna is implying that he is and has experience with me, it's scum indicative the fact that he included me on his PoE, especially knowing that I have a tendency to be suspicious of people who consider me town easily.[/quote]

I call it the Dannflor fallacy. He has a tendency to sr trs on him and think that srs are more likely to be town indicative. I’m the exact opposite which is why I’m probably MS’ #1 scum pocketing candidate.

[Nancy Drew 39]

ok Pink Ball's town

we're killing clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith italiano, rolestop me, replacement vanilla cops mastina

lock it in and let's wrap this shit up

Sarah practically twists herself into a pretzel in order to convince us that is some extremely clever intent to scum distance.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

VOTE COUNT 2 . 19

• 5uffering
  ----------- 3 ( Starcrossed(5), Sherlock and Watson(32), Morty and Rick(68) )
  F- 6
  
  
  War and Peace
  ------- 2 ( Fey(3), Dunnstral(34) )
  F- 7
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 2 ( 5uffering(56), olaf(81) )
  F- 7
  
  
  Pink Ball
  ----------- 1 ( War and Peace(5) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Batsunami
  ----------- 1 ( Pink Ball(1) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 0 ( Titus(36) )
  F- 9
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Red Eye Knights
  ----- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  ItalianoVD
  ---------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Olaf
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 8 ( Batsunami(100), Gamma Emerald(115), SaraharaS(7), Red Eye Knights(6), clidd(73), ItalianoVD(16), Toogeloo(13), Nancy Drew 39(178) )

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-28 00:01:00)

Thanks @Titus for spewing Clidd town. I went through every single VC in the game and every single of of Titus’ votes were on town or she wasn’t voting. She has never once voted any of S & W, W & P or Sarah. So what are the odds here that Clidd is the sole exception to this?

But this is the best indicator that Kanna’s right because for you to be scum here, you’d have to be the only scum Titus voted in the entire game

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, N2, Titus obviously thought Morty and Rick were my mason. N3 REK died because of role cop. N4, Koba outing the bus driver made them the #1 threat in the game. N5, Starcrossed claimed vig and Sarah gambit made it clear that scum thought I had a mason in the vts but I guess since they weren’t sure there wasn’t, they killed Fey, which probably wasn’t smart if Pyro is scum here but It’s obviously not you, Kid flip backs up Dunn’s even night claim, since we know bus driver is ungated. PB’s ISO is so townie it hurts plus strong anti associatives with both S & W/W & P. Kanna was right on Kid and she was even more confident on Clidd. In our mason discord, she was practically begging me to never elim Clidd.

There was no gambit by sara, you need to forget about that idea. There is no such thing as fakeclaiming mason lul

Dunn is odd night, and Kid doesn't back up his claim because Dunn claimed second.. Dunn backed up Kid, actually...

Sarah fakeclaimed mason because Titus thought there was a mason amongst the vt claims.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes exactly, why would Alisae have one even night role but no odd night anything? Sure it’s possible but in most games, you don’t have one without the other.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Fey died > you I think because I’ve made it clear from the getgo that I’m never eliming her, so scum maybe thought you were more pushable? Also no actual evidence of bus driver N5, since you reached your target. However, you were locktown after Sarah flipped.

If thats the theory you're running with, it makes Pyro seem more innocent because it is practically impossible for him to be able to turn on me. Someone else would have to scumread me for him.

I feel as if Star, Fey, and I were all similar levels of unpushable, even if you didn't townread us which is unlikely, our mech made us very likely town as well

Scum killed Fey > you for reasons and my working theory is, to frame Clidd, because VCA spews him town but the fact that apparently no bus drive occurred on N5 might also have been a factor. But we can go around in circles on this but only Titus will be able to 100% answer this right?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Last scum being either Dunn/Pyro rather than PB/clidd seems correct, which contradicts my PB/clidd/Sara PoE from a long ways back but i think it makes wayyyy more sense that the driver isn't clidd or Saudade/PB now

Well, PB/Clidd both have strong anti associatives with Krazy definitely. PB with with both S & W and W & P. The thing is why no bus drive last night?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, N2, Titus obviously thought Morty and Rick were my mason. N3 REK died because of role cop. N4, Koba outing the bus driver made them the #1 threat in the game. N5, Starcrossed claimed vig and Sarah gambit made it clear that scum thought I had a mason in the vts but I guess since they weren’t sure there wasn’t, they killed Fey, which probably wasn’t smart if Pyro is scum here but It’s obviously not you, Kid flip backs up Dunn’s even night claim, since we know bus driver is ungated. PB’s ISO is so townie it hurts plus strong anti associatives with both S & W/W & P. Kanna was right on Kid and she was even more confident on Clidd. In our mason discord, she was practically begging me to never elim Clidd.

Oh to actually respond more to this post -- I agree that there were better nightkills than Star even if scum realized they were mason (which they really should have). DKKoba and Fey were both at least as valuable as Star.

What i mean though is, what is the point for pressuring Star to claim exactly? I believe Pyro did this far past when it was clear likely to everyone that Star was at least *important*. They were the only unclaimed player. So what's the idea behind it?

I didn’t have a hood with Fey though or you for that matter. Only Koba was a bigger threat than Starcrossed because of role.

If Dunn is scum, why couldn’t he have bus drove Starcrossed with Fey then and still killed them? He obviously doesn’t get any towncred for Starcrossed not dying. So, only reason that makes sense is that scum desperately wanted Clidd limmed > Kid, so why? Kid would have obviously been on Starcrossed last night and they still probably would have died, so it’s in scum!Dunn’s disadvantage to have killed Fey > Starcrossed because it clearly made Clidd look bad, which made him far more likely to be yesterday’s elim > Kid. Like I know Titus has a rep for being moonlogicky but killing Fey > Starcrossed is seriously dumb if Dunn is last scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Kanna and Nancy at least have mentioned that Pyro wouldn't point out townslips or possible masons or whatnot when it's better to keep his mouth shut as town.. but in a game I moderated, Pyro blurted out that he had noticed a dead gunsmith's inno crumb.. when Pyro was a commuter and that was his last chance to draw a nightkill -- so that was kind of a mistake in the same category. I wouldn't discount the possibility just yet.

Can you elaborate on this some more since I obviously lack context? Thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Honestly, I would never talk about masons openly as scum, it looks very scummy on a surface level. I was seriously scumreading Starcrossed and thought if they were town, it was exactly as a mason- Pooky and Kanna were simply not talking to Nancy enough in thread and it meant they were scum or a Mason. I thought scum though which is why I kept talking about it and honestly just wanted a claim because I was like 70/30 on it

What else... oh, after the vig claim, I was sure Starcrossed was a mason because there wasn't enough room for 2 masons + a vig being alive, and it didn't explain why they weren't talking to Nancy in-thread. I played along with the vig claim though

Why then did you ask me yesterday if there was both a vig and a mason in this game? I don’t understand what you mean by this? Starcrossed wasn’t avoiding me at all, nor did I instruct them (or REK for that matter) to do that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

[/quote="In post 6846, Pyro"]Kanna's post actually infuriates me and I'm not even sure why, maybe it's the confidence

To quickly address the points:
1) Mason hunting theory is ridiculous. You were absolutely mason or scum to me very early on, and if I were scum, I would've killed you very early on. I thought you were scum or mason from lack of motivation to post in-thread and I was leaning scum (partly because of a tinfoil reason I can't talk about). My scumgame is not one where I openwolf and hunt for masons openly. I play it safe and aim to look towny, and appearing to hunt for masons is very scummy on a surface level

5) Gonna go to this point next just to emphasize on how contradictory it is with 1). I've played "conventionally" and done nothing to stick my neck out, but I've also been openly mason hunting at the same time? And pushing and casing people is not conventional/safe, I've cased several people this game whenever I've been feeling it (including clidd, War and Peace, Sarah)

I've explained 2 and 4

Regarding 3) This is just a "you disagree with me on a read so you're scum"
clidd's early playstyle was evey reminiscent of his scumplay in Ultimate Conspiracy. Strong takes and opinions, but not much reasoning - that's why I cased him. Since then, his play has improved with more solving and yesterday, I wasn't sure who scum was because I didn't believe in anyone being scum. clidd was in the PoE but eh basically

Finally, regarding the Fey kill: I absolutely, absolutely do not kill Fey

first

out of the Morning/Starcrossed/Fey pool of conftown, and you can theorize all you want that it technically doesn't matter when it comes done to final 3, but I never ever make that kill first.

Having Fey alive in final 7 and final 5 when I'm scum and she's been screaming I'm town all game is so incredibly valuable, and no amount of WIFOM would make me make that kill going into final 7. From your perspective, it's a possibility scum!Pyro does it for WIFOM - but I'm just being honest with you, I never actually do. I don't value WIFOM very highly in practice, and usually opt to make the logical kills which benefit me most in gamestate

(still love you btw, Kanna <3)[/quote]

You do realize that both Kanna, Pooky and me were heavily discussing all of this in the mason Discord right? What Kanna was super confident on is we should never lim Clidd. She was convinced that he was town by play and that both Fey and Tweetie was mech cleared because of bus driver.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway:

clidd is town because Sarah was seriously trying to push for him to be killed over her in final 9, ot would essentially be scum TMIing on her partner if clidd was scum regarding the whole Krazy push reasoning, and I believe Sarah is smarter than that

Additionally, I bothered to look back and Krazy was onboard and encouraging killing clidd *after* Nancy had in the launch pool and was voting him

Finally, his play yesterday really seemed to hinge on the game ending with KidAmn's death - I think he genuinely believed in it and it doesn't feel like he's playing with a plan in mind for endgame

Pink Ball;
Sarah stated that he was town for a "trust tell level replace out from Saudade" and I think scum!Sarah actually believes in that and it's TMIing him town.
His interactions with Nancy upon replacing in were very genuine and appeared in good faith, and his tone has been excellent

Morning Tweet;
Bats are evil, this could be the serial killer but this is a problem for final 3

Dunny;
The last wolf! I don't want to list the reasons because I don't want Dunny to try and refute them while they're in lazy bullet point form

I'll get to it, dw

Seriously, why does scum!Tweetie hang out Sarah to die like she did? Remember she claimed to have targeted her and thought she got switched with Koba. Sarah unlike Clidd, basically never responded to her message. So I’d really like to know why you would think Tweetie would treat a buddy like that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

One last thing:

Fey had the exact same read on Starcrossed and was actually the one that got them to claim. Please don't be selective about your evidence that Fey is doing it while town but it makes me scum. Additionally, it's not me piggybacking off her read either - I was the first to suspect and push Starcrossed.

Nancy, please listen to Fey when she drilled into you over and over again that I was town. She's genuinely never been more sure I'm town in any other game (you can check)

I had her as locktown for many reasons: She was mech cleared by role claim, obvtown by play, very clear anti associatives with all 3 flipped scum, plus I thought Titus was extremely unlikely to draft her, etc.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway:

clidd is town because Sarah was seriously trying to push for him to be killed over her in final 9, ot would essentially be scum TMIing on her partner if clidd was scum regarding the whole Krazy push reasoning, and I believe Sarah is smarter than that

Additionally, I bothered to look back and Krazy was onboard and encouraging killing clidd *after* Nancy had in the launch pool and was voting him

Finally, his play yesterday really seemed to hinge on the game ending with KidAmn's death - I think he genuinely believed in it and it doesn't feel like he's playing with a plan in mind for endgame

Pink Ball;
Sarah stated that he was town for a "trust tell level replace out from Saudade" and I think scum!Sarah actually believes in that and it's TMIing him town.
His interactions with Nancy upon replacing in were very genuine and appeared in good faith, and his tone has been excellent

Morning Tweet;
Bats are evil, this could be the serial killer but this is a problem for final 3

Dunny;
The last wolf! I don't want to list the reasons because I don't want Dunny to try and refute them while they're in lazy bullet point form

I'll get to it, dw

Seriously, why does scum!Tweetie hang out Sarah to DRY like she did? Remember she claimed to have targeted her and thought she got switched with Koba. Sarah unlike Clidd, basically never responded to her message. So I’d really like to know why you would think Tweetie would treat a buddy like that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

For Tweetie to actually be scum here, Titus would have had to have her deliberately set up Sarah for towncred post-flip, so unless you’re theory is that scum had already decided Sarah was going down anyway and wanted to guarantee Tweetie the towncred for making her look really really bad, I don’t see how she’s possibly ever scum here?

Because Sarah not responding to Tweetie’s clue was a major factor for her being elimed. I think that is indisputable.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also when Krazy townlocked Sam for posting that scummy kitty pic, Noraa debunked it. Also, it’s hella unusual for one scum to push another scum’s read to get [them] out of [their] head.

But why does scum!Noraa contradict the reason for him locktowning Sam?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Vig should kill

Clidd or

Ircher

or Saudade.
Clidd has high chances of being scum

Ircher flip is filled with juicy info

Saudade keeps distracting Nancy

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't want W&P to claim

remove us from vig targets thx

No. Your death is beneficial to town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sam how are you?

Spoiler:

Sam just hardclaimed town

-S

Sam also posted that gif in booney where she was scum

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean, it's not me and I was thinking of following what fey was pushing today instead of going on her tr

Nancy, tweetie can't be scum because she's a messenger, and the last scum is a bus driver

Tweetie is obviously not scum because she hung Sarah out to dry and unless Titus actually wanted Sarah elimed, why would Tweetie treat her buddy like that?

What do you mean? Titus never voted a single scum all game, are you suggesting that Clidd is the one exception?

[Nancy Drew 39]

And yes, I do read you as town here, Nora. Just like BM is too.

pedit: Just relax, it's a game.

The only experience I have with scum!BM was in a newbie game where he played in a super inactive/scummy way, it was not difficult to catch him. I don't think he's a deepwolf when he's scum, unless his scumgame has improved since then or if that particular game was a point off the curve.

I am still inclined to think that he is town here.

I liked the meta on BM and I probably underestimated Nora's resolving potential if she's right.

But my position on BM has not changed.

BM is a good miselim to use, Titus wouldn't draft him.

That's just what my mind points to, Nora.

But, as I said, I will be impressed if you are correct about him.

BM is a good miselim to use, Titus wouldn't draft him.

How do you know who Titus would and would not pick? BM was actually one of my initial solves pre-game.

Don’t end the day early because I have instructions for vigges and other possible TPRs.

Speculation.

I don't think his scumgame is that good.

Speculation.

I don't think his scumgame is that good.

scum games are typically better from people with play styles similar to DK. The hostile townies will come off nicer as scum because they are informed and know what to do to get TRs.

Hum.

Yes, I think you can be correct about this tell, depending on the context.

But I am not sure if you are right on BM. The way the gamestate is flowing around the discovery ''BM is scum by meta/tell '' makes me think that scum is passive towards his elimination, in the sense that there is not a single contrary argument about what was raised about him. Complacency makes me think that we are about to materialize a miselim. If that is the case, I imagine that the scum are well positioned not to reflect as suspects the next day, which may indicate the existence of deepwolfs instead of powerwolfs, considering that you are the person who is directing this elimination (and I am convinced that you are town).

Alternatively, I can be wrong and you are just having a fantastic game. I need to see the flip to know.

The Saudade scumflip should balance the BM townflip.

Scum!BM wouldn't let Titus down here by replacing out, even if caught. Just saying.

But if you guys want to continue with the wagon, that's fine.

Scum!BM wouldn't let Titus down here by replacing out, even if caught. Just saying.

But if you guys want to continue with the wagon, that's fine.

What is your theory on his replace out? I wasn’t gung ho on his elim so if town, why didn’t he trust me more?

Too many variables, hard to say.

I don't read minds, but he reflected me as highly frustrated in a towny way.

It is not useful to go into details imo about that without a flip, 5uf.

If he's scum, it will be a waste of time for me to talk about it openly. I prefer not to distract who is town here.

Time is on our side? Deadline is still about 7-9 days away. If he's scum though? What do you think he is? Your post to me just seemed like it didn't directly add anything to the conversation.

Clidd, would like a response to this.

Also, I think you should pitch in more with BM conversation if it's still going. I looked around and saw that you two happened to be in a game where he was scum. Your word could be good authority here, especially with others talking about his meta.

That game he was very lazy and it was kind of obvious that he was scum. But even though he was aware that many slots suspected him, he kept a surprisingly calm instance. So it is not characteristic for me see he frustrated here as a scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The thing is why no bus drive last night?

We killed kidamn so there was no reason to bus drive

Sorry, I was referring to N5.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I mean, it's not me and I was thinking of following what fey was pushing today instead of going on her tr

Nancy, tweetie can't be scum because she's a messenger, and the last scum is a bus driver

Right because she acted concurrently with the bus driver: N2: Starcrossed, bus driver switched M & R with (extremely unlikely Starcrossed lolololol) ?, N3: Olaf, bd switched REK with Toog, N4: Sarah, bd switched Sarah with Koba. N5: Sarah, no evidence bus drive happened. N6: ?????

Who did you message last night? @Tweetie

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes exactly, why would Alisae have one even night role but no odd night anything? Sure it’s possible but in most games, you don’t have one without the other.

What? Why not?

Both the rolestopper and doctor are fairly useless roles to setup balance anyway considering the driver, dont think it would change much. If the driver dies they're activated sure but still dont see it affecting balance a ton

And where did I miss the unspoken "Even nights need an odd night counterpart" rule? I'd never abide by that while designing a setup

Okay fair enough but there usually is although I played a game on MU once where I was even night vig and no odd counterpart but there was in Cards of Destiny: Gamma, even night town bus driver with BEF, odd night town roleblocker or something? Can’t recall now. Do you remember? @Dunn

[Nancy Drew 39]

Who did you message last night? @Tweetie

Pyro claimed it

Link/quote? Also, she messaged Olaf on N3, so that would be twice so don’t really see the point?

[Nancy Drew 39]

For the record id totally have bussed Sara, why wouldn't I have? I'm town for other reasons

Okay but hanging her out to dry isn’t even in the same ballpark as bussing. Bussing specifically refers to pushes or votes, not to hanging a buddy out to dry with your NA. And yes very obviously true.

[Nancy Drew 39]

lol I just opened your message

@Starcrossed batshit bat around right off the bat batty tab cat rat eat

Oh okay. @Tweetie why target the same slot twice: Days 3 & 6?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Please, try and predict me.

Who was Morty and Rick bus driven with on N2? You can share that now?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy I don't see how Tweetie can be scum if their role is messenger and the last scum is a bus driver

I know that, where are you getting I even think that? She’s super locktown.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy I don't see how Tweetie can be scum if their role is messenger and the last scum is a bus driver

@Dunn, can you please answer the question I asked you in 6888?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy I don't see how Tweetie can be scum if their role is messenger and the last scum is a bus driver

I know that, where are you getting I even think that? She’s super locktown.

I'm confused why you're spending so much time defending me because no one is pushing me

Because I misread Pyro’s post. Anyway, I think you, PB and Clidd are all spewed town by anti associatives, so it’s between Pyro and Dunn.

Ftr, I like Pyro pushing Dunn > Dunn pushing Clidd. I also trust Kanna’s trs > srs, considering she has been right on both Toog and KidAmn.

If Dunn is the last scum here, then this game is as scumsided af, let’s be super clear on that. This setup is the complete converse of Pooky vs. FL where the opposite was true, so winning this despite the setup totally favouring scum will indeed be sweet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well you’re town for a gazillion other reasons but ALSO that. @Tweetie

[Nancy Drew 39]

Please, try and predict me.

Who was Morty and Rick bus driven with on N2? You can share that now?

Why would you expect me to be honest?

So you’re saying the bus driven target you switched with M & R would totally affect the game then? Gotcha.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes exactly, why would Alisae have one even night role but no odd night anything? Sure it’s possible but in most games, you don’t have one without the other.

What? Why not?

Both the rolestopper and doctor are fairly useless roles to setup balance anyway considering the driver, dont think it would change much. If the driver dies they're activated sure but still dont see it affecting balance a ton

And where did I miss the unspoken "Even nights need an odd night counterpart" rule? I'd never abide by that while designing a setup

Okay fair enough but there usually is although I played a game on MU once where I was even night vig and no odd counterpart but there was in Cards of Destiny: Gamma, even night town bus driver with BEF, odd night town roleblocker or something? Can’t recall now. Do you remember? @Dunn

I don't know what MU game you are talking about (sounds like I wasn't in it)
Cards of destiny: Yes there was 'Neighbor Even night self redirector conditional hated/loved' and 'Mod poster/Modified-odd night hider'

It was so long ago - before I had my first game on here, can’t even recall the name - but I was even night vig in an open setup and got miselimed D2 despite the one player hard trying to save me being the NK, go figure.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And I referenced that game because I don’t recall there being an odd night anything in that but honestly can’t remember.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes exactly, why would Alisae have one even night role but no odd night anything? Sure it’s possible but in most games, you don’t have one without the other.

What? Why not?

Both the rolestopper and doctor are fairly useless roles to setup balance anyway considering the driver, dont think it would change much. If the driver dies they're activated sure but still dont see it affecting balance a ton

And where did I miss the unspoken "Even nights need an odd night counterpart" rule? I'd never abide by that while designing a setup

Okay fair enough but there usually is although I played a game on MU once where I was even night vig and no odd counterpart but there was in Cards of Destiny: Gamma, even night town bus driver with BEF, odd night town roleblocker or something? Can’t recall now. Do you remember? @Dunn

I don't know what MU game you are talking about (sounds like I wasn't in it)
Cards of destiny: Yes there was 'Neighbor Even night self redirector conditional hated/loved' and 'Mod poster/Modified-odd night hider'

Also the odd night bus driver as well

I’m pretty sure Gamma was even night and BEF odd. I don’t recall any other bd than Gamma? But I think the rest is probably right.

[Nancy Drew 39]

The thing is why no bus drive last night?

We killed kidamn so there was no reason to bus drive

Sorry, I was referring to N5.

How do you know that there was no bus drive N5?

@Dunn

[Nancy Drew 39]

MT I kinda wanna celebrate I think this is the first time we've been town together lmao

Oh wait I mean I'll save it for the mason pt

-S

Lmfaoooo

[Nancy Drew 39]

Jesus... I'm not reading 25 pages that came in less than 18 hours. Someone catch me up to speed.

We're masons with Pyro, Fey, and Noraaing Tweet

-S

Hmm . . . this could be anti associative for Pyro.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So... pretty much just a metric shit-ton of noise today?

vote marcistar or clidd to help solve and for #wagons

-S

[Nancy Drew 39]

If Gamma is scum there's the risk he's a scum doctor, he is a poor GS choice. Vanilla cop on Olaf is basically fine even though I very slightly disagree with it but not so much that we need to argue about it.

GS on Akarin is very strong. If not Akarin, god, we could do Olaf

, but then we'd do vanilla cop on one of mastina/Akarin. That feels worse to me but it's workable.

Hmmm . . . I think I’m leaning to limming Dunn. Why would Krazy want Olaf

gun checked

role copped?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: dunnstral

VOTE: dunnstral

Explain

Finally

Riiiiight - because you’ve never played with me before.

@dunn

I'm actual masons with nora, sam, pooky, auro, pooky, akarin, clidd, and dunn and figurative masons with all these people except 1

Gamma Emerald
SaraharaS
Fey
ItalianoVD
Toogeloo
Battle Mage
Pyro
Charlie and Snoopy (Marcistar + Shadowslug)
Saudade

Ironically my figurative masons are probably more town than my literal masons

Also even though we're a mason there might be one specific investigative role that could get a quasi guilty on us like a miller but not miller

-Sherlock Holmes

Dunn don't push the mason theater too hard or titus might think we're not actually masons

-S

This series of posts are super weird. Within minutes Krazy votes the slot he’s tr? Why?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think Pink Ball is being very reasonable about how he is handling you. Nancy

. Relax. And Focus.

Focus.

If you really want Starcrossed vanilla cop checked over mastina, I'd be welcome to hear why, otherwise I think mastina is the better vanilla cop check based on the information that town will need to be able to discuss on day 2 to solve effectively.

Translation: I’m totally pocketing the ever loving fuck out of PB.

[Nancy Drew 39]

vanilla cop will still be important since the vanilla cop claims result before the rest of massclaim

Flip clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith Akarin, rolestop {pool of S&W and Sarah},

replacement vanilla cops Olaf

Lock?

Okay, Pyro/Olaf has to be town from this, since last scum is bus driver.

[Nancy Drew 39]

vanilla cop will still be important since the vanilla cop claims result before the rest of massclaim

Flip clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith Akarin, rolestop {pool of S&W and Sarah},

replacement vanilla cops Olaf

Lock?

Okay, Pyro/Olaf has to be town from this, since last scum is bus driver.

Okay, I think Pyro is lockclear from this.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So you’re suggesting that Pyro/Olaf bus drove themselves with Morty and Rick? Considering that Krazy also wanted the actual kill target vanilla copped, why even bother? Who was even pushing Olaf at that time?

If my theory’s correct, it was actually S & W who were switched with Morty and Rick but since I did indeed have a one shot strongwilled disloyal vigshot, it didn’t save them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry @Dunn, I think it’s you.

I think Tweetie, PB and Pyro are all mech clear and that PB and Clidd are also clear because of anti associatives. Who knew that Krazy would be the scum who sang the loudest? I knew they were hard controlling the game and had to find out asap, which team they were playing for.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So you’re suggesting that Pyro/Olaf bus drove themselves with Morty and Rick? Considering that Krazy also wanted the actual kill target vanilla copped, why even bother? Who was even pushing Olaf at that time?

If my theory’s correct, it was actually S & W who were switched with Morty and Rick but since I did indeed have a one shot strongwilled disloyal vigshot, it didn’t save them.

Sarah was extremely unlikely to have been bus driven with M & R since I was hard tr her att but Krazy kept hardpushing for that rolestop, so that’s why S & W make the most sense as the switch.

And why does the only night you’re leashed to a target, they don’t die but Fey does? If my S & W bus drive theory is correct, then it makes sense. With 2 masons, 6 vts are plausible but not 7 obviously. Like if I’m wrong we can always revisit but the obviously only difference will be Tweetie 100% dies tonight, regardless whether we leash you onto her or not. So let’s say we no elim either D7 or 8, then what? PB dies N8? Then we have a you/Pyro/Clidd F3?

[Nancy Drew 39]

The thing is why no bus drive last night?

We killed kidamn so there was no reason to bus drive

So if KidAmn had lived, they would have probably been leashed to Starcrossed and died anyway. Ngl, #6867 sounds like a bit of a TMI. Why? Because you’re making it crystal clear that Starcrossed would 100% been bus driven had we not limmed him. Scum wanted Clidd limmed D6 - which is also probably why Fey died > Starcrossed but then when Starcrossed dies anyway tonight, then we’d lim KidAmn tonight. Tweetie dies, leaving a you/Pyro/PB F3 and hope PB can be persuaded on Pyro. We don’t have the luxury of a no elim attp either because scum just NKs PB and win.

Scum needed Fey dead to faux guilty Clidd and then have Kid fail once again in protecting the town they were leashed to because Kid flip proves bus drive actually happen on his watch. So what that tells me, is that now that Kid can’t be framed, bus driver is essentially useless. Either way, we’re in a considerably weaker spot with Clidd death. It makes sense why Titus was so upset with that post now: not because Pyro’s scum but because Kanna confitowned Clidd. Scum desperately need Clidd to be the elim today and Kanna fucked that up.

Sarah wanted Clidd to be elimed in his place, then after Sarah’s elimed, Fey - who just happened to be hardpushing Clidd dies and now, who is your #1 target to elim today? Clidd.

[Nancy Drew 39]

My suggestion is to not eliminate the next 2 days and see if Dunn can save someone tonight in case he's town. The problem is obviously we lose an elimination, and if we're sure it's between Pyro and Dunn, then let's just go for it

Tweetie obviously and no elim N8 then as well but okay, point taken but Tweetie is mech cleared by role and you and Clidd have anti-associatives up the wazoo.

Anyway, I have 3 clears ranging in certainty from Tweetie/you/Clidd. So if it’s between Dunn and Pyro, we still win and Kanna’s been right on Toog and Kid.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy: Thank you for reconsidering and finding that vanilla cop thing!

I was initially convinced it was you but yeah, I’m like a dog with a bone, if evidence exsts, bank on I’ll be the one who probably stumbles on it.

While I do think PB’s point is obviously valid, it’s extremely obvious that Krazy wanted to be rolestopped. He also wanted PB vanilla copped but was extremely insistent on having Morty and Rick be. so while it’s obviously possible that you self-targeted with M & R, Krazy arguing so hard for M & R to be vanilla copped makes me think it’s obvious possible but is it likely? Krazy obviously was pushing for a slot he wanted dead vanilla copped, so why bother with any of it because of bus driver?

I’m sure that pretty much the last thing scum wanted N2 was to show their bus driver. I still don’t understand why Koba got notified they targeted Toog as opposed to just getting a straight up vt result though.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy: Thank you for reconsidering and finding that vanilla cop thing!

I was initially convinced it was you but yeah, I’m like a dog with a bone, if evidence exsts, bank on I’ll be the one who probably stumbles on it.

While I do think PB’s point is obviously valid, it’s extremely obvious that Krazy wanted to be rolestopped. He also wanted PB vanilla copped but was extremely insistent on having Morty and Rick be. so while it’s obviously possible that you self-targeted with M & R, Krazy arguing so hard for M & R to be vanilla copped makes me think it’s obvious possible but is it likely? Krazy obviously was pushing for a slot he wanted dead vanilla copped, so why bother with any of it because of bus driver?

I’m sure that pretty much the last thing scum wanted N2 was to show their bus driver. I still don’t understand why Koba got notified they targeted Toog as opposed to just getting a straight up vt result though.

Also, I claimed VT while knowing there was a vanilla cop, and they easily could've checked me any of the nights. That's pretty stupid to do as a bus driver.

Pooky thought you were a PT cop because of the mason or scum thing.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sounds good, although I'm semi-paranoid about you.

Not because you're scummy or something like that, but because of the quality of your scumgame + for what Kanna said.

But if you're town, I should be able to see that today.

Clidd’s so very obviously town and he’s 100% not wrong about your scumgame either but innoing Clidd seems extremely counterintuitive here if it’s you.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh, right, Koba knew it was Toog.

That's still odd, but ok I'll take it as Koba wasn't making a gamble or something.

Sarah being switched with Koba N4 and obviously Morty and Rick dying despite KidAmn RSing them but yeah mainly Koba, so bus driver - not strongman. However my 1 shot vig on Krazy would have overrode everything including both bus driver and role stop.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah it definitely is. I really want an explanation for this post-game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway, let me know when you wanna see it. I'm not presenting to an empty table smh

Your case is still about Dunn and Morning was a joke or just the explanation of your case on Morning was a joke but are you still going to present a case about scum!Morning?

It's about Dunny, Morning is a bus driver at heart, but not in this game.

But seriously wtf was that even about? She’d have to be double stacked to be bus driver in this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Anyway, let me know when you wanna see it. I'm not presenting to an empty table smh

Your case is still about Dunn and Morning was a joke or just the explanation of your case on Morning was a joke but are you still going to present a case about scum!Morning?

It's about Dunny, Morning is a bus driver at heart, but not in this game.

But seriously wtf was that even about? She’d have to be double stacked to be bus driver in this game.

Have you seen Morning drive a bus irl? She's completely insane with the drifts and wheelies she pulls off. It's hard to believe until you actually see it

If this is actually true, I’ll take my chances jaywalking.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, @Morning, and @clidd:

Please let me know your thoughts. After making that case, I feel better about Dunny being scum than I've felt about any other scumread I've had this game.

I will review it some more but one thing struck me. As I said, I was literally scum with Ircher and Titus in my very first scumgame ever and while his scumgame has dramatically improved since then, he is far more likely to scum distance than rand. He used to make lists where he would have his buddies extremely low on his lists. In the game where we were buddies, he had his entire team as either “scum” or “scumleans”, so specifically coming from Ircher your argument wrt to his Dunn push could definitely fit with that.

My working theory is that scum didn’t want the bus driver outed, which is why Krazy pushed so hard to be RS’d and wanted to make sure M & R weren’t. I also think the Fey kill was really sus and I really don’t see how that benefits you at all. My theory is that scum badly wanted Clidd elimed > Kid because she was pushing him the hardest.

I think it had to be extremely obvious that Starcrossed had to be my 2nd mason because PB obviously couldn’t be because of Saudade. I pushed Clidd to claim and other slots PR claimed but if you were a mason, you obviously would never have been pushing Starcrossed that hard. So whether or not Titus believed that Starcrossed or I was vigg, Fey was by then clearly spewed as a one shot unlike Tweetie, who’s NK would actually have not been as suspicious, so ONLY reason to kill her first was to frame Clidd. By limming Kid first, ruined scum’s plan but Kanna has had an extremely hard tr on that slot the entire game. Scum obviously failed to take that into account. Me and Kanna are extremely alike in that way, we both fight hard to protect our trs.

[Nancy Drew 39]

nvm Fey was actually a shit kill for Pyro, i would be fairly surprised if he opted for the wifom rather than the logical choice of killing me and star first. Fey's protection would be strong even if it seemed like the obvious route for scum pyro to take

Sorry to ask this, just paranoia hitting: what's all the evidence we actually have about the existence of a bus driver? Just the list, no analysis

just to summarize all we know just cause:

Kid's rolestop was bypassed N2

Koba's invest was swapped to Toog from REK N3

My message to Sara failed N4, likely because sara was attacked and swapped with koba

And now we have Krazy agreeing to him being vanilla copped while PB is correct that it can’t be an actual clear because of bus drive, it is still very significant. Scum should have probably had Sarah hardbus the bus driver because then the mech clear would be rendered meaningless which is why scum obviously wanted Clidd whacked before Kid.

[Nancy Drew 39]

if Pyro's scum here his scumgame has improved significantly from an already pretty good baseline

I don't think the scumcase on Dunn would have happened if he were scum, neither would have the irritation towards kanna and us for SRing at start of day

And I don't foresee it being pb or clidd

So I could go back and pretend to notice what it is that made dunn scummy, but i think he played quite well actually, even if some of the fault is on me for not reading much further into the bit that made me tr him

i suppose my question to Dunn would be is, what did you mean exactly by how your role made you suspect WnP less, i suppose. Being able to point backwards and demonstrate how your role made you change your play and reads is really good for giving credibility to the claim but i didnt really think much about *why* your role made you think that just so much as it did

Oh he has an extremely impressive scumgame but not a suicidal one and both the Fey NK + Krazy Vanilla rolecop thing would definitely point to that. Also, his entire positioning on W & P is also pretty weird if scum. I guess I only suspected him because of PoE but I like him focusing specifically on Dunn, where as Dunn is pushing Clidd the hardest but still leaving the door open to push Pyro. Iow, Pyro being specifically focused on Dunn speaks to a townie mindset. Sure that can be faked but not something you see with any great frequency, so that alone in addition to everything else makes me think it isn’t him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That's cool, whether we kill Dunny by virtue of you guys townreading me, or scumreading him, it works either way!

And Morning, you really were spot on with that early assessment you had of me, where you made me realise something that was missing in my scumgame.

I’m not sure which post you’re referring to but I wish I had read it before Trust Fall, is all I can say about that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also, I feel bad for getting irritated and apologies for that, mitsuha. I know you're cheering for me behind the scenes and the comms sabotage was just a fluke

“comms sabotage”????

[Nancy Drew 39]

lol dw, it was just my avatar that fooled you in Trust Fall. I'm still gonna switch to a waluigi one next time I roll scum against you

No, it was your correct read on me plus I also wrongly tr Pooky for ironically the exact same reasons you claimed to.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Also, I feel bad for getting irritated and apologies for that, mitsuha. I know you're cheering for me behind the scenes and the comms sabotage was just a fluke

“comms sabotage”????

Yeah, scum probably sabotaged her computer irl and made her see scummy posts of mine that didn't exist. Hats off to Titus for the creative use

Titus is Neo from The Matrix, who knew?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tbf, the main reason is that Kanna was super obvtown and it looked you were constantly mason hunting her. Pooky wasn’t bsing you btw, she really was pissed at you for not correctly tr her.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really really want us to win this. I don’t think I’ve ever put this much effort into any game ever.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well... I can't be perfect at reading her every game! But for real, I wouldn't openly mason hunt as scum, it looks really scummy and I would think you specifically would think it looks really scummy as well, Nancy.

Well, that’s why I initially wanted to lim you but I don’t like how passive Dunn is being. Town!him I think would be pretty annoyed about now, yet he seems to have no reaction.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I really really want us to win this. I don’t think I’ve ever put this much effort into any game ever.

Let's launch Dunny and we do!

I’m game. Notice how silent Titus is being?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well... I can't be perfect at reading her every game! But for real, I wouldn't openly mason hunt as scum, it looks really scummy and I would think you specifically would think it looks really scummy as well, Nancy.

Well, that’s why I initially wanted to lim you but I don’t like how passive Dunn is being. Town!him I think would be pretty annoyed about now, yet he seems to have no reaction.

Yeah, his tone and the way he's acting this game is clearly different to his town game. samantha was right when she said he has PASSION in his towngame, and there's none of that here.

I can definitely relate. I was recently in a scumgame and it truly sucks the life right out of you with few exceptions. I actually enjoyed it in Pooky vs. FL eventhough we lost. However, I still really really want to get a shot at playing scum stump though.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Pink Ball, who do you think is the last scum?

We know it can’t be Tweetie, it’s obviously not you, comparable reasons why it’s not Clidd, plus I don’t want to suffer the wrath of the ghost of Kanna, so who’s left?

I know, you’ll say Pyro and Dunn and I know Pyro can’t be a clear because of bus driver but those are literally the only two remaining slots other than of course locktown Tweetie that don’t have strong anti associatives and do you really think that scum bus driver bussed Pyro/Olaf when he was trying so hard to get himself rolestopped? You think he hardbusses W & P - BOTH days and NKs Fey when Starcrossed and Tweetie make way more sense? If he’s the last scum why does he kill the slot guaranteed not to vote him in Elo when he had much better shots?

Scum!Ircher loves to distance and Sarah called him locktown. I will ISO some more flipped scum but I agree with Pyro and Sam, town!Dunn would be really irritated by this shift, yet he isn’t, why not?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Pink Ball, who do you think is the last scum?

We know it can’t be Tweetie, it’s obviously not you, comparable reasons why it’s not Clidd, plus I don’t want to suffer the wrath of the ghost of Kanna, so who’s left?

I know, you’ll say Pyro and Dunn and I know Pyro can’t be a clear because of bus driver but those are literally the only two remaining slots other than of course locktown Tweetie that don’t have strong anti associatives and do you really think that scum bus driver bussed Pyro/Olaf when KRAZY was trying so hard to get himself rolestopped? You think he hardbusses W & P - BOTH days and NKs Fey when Starcrossed and Tweetie make way more sense? If he’s the last scum why does he kill the slot guaranteed not to vote him in Elo when he had much better shots?

Scum!Ircher loves to distance and Sarah called him locktown. I will ISO some more flipped scum but I agree with Pyro and Sam, town!Dunn would be really irritated by this shift, yet he isn’t, why not?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Put my shoes for once. I don't know why you care that much about being limmed today if that means limming Dunn tomorrow. I get the pride thing, but to me it looks survivalistic, while the other dude seems not to care

At this stage of the game, how is not caring town indicative? Shouldn’t town care and be eager to find the last scum?

I also don’t understand how you’re reading Pyro as “survivalistic”? Since he’s hard tr everyone but Dunn, I’m not really seeing that? If anything Dunn wanting to push Clidd but not really having a read on Pyro looks way more survivalistic to me. Why? Because we need to miselims for scum to win right? So Dunn can hedge his bets between Clidd and Pyro and if he’s the last scum and we lim them first, we lose.

Let’s put it this way, we need 3 clears: Tweetie, you, Clidd, so even if last scum wound up being Pyro, we’d still win.

@Pyro do something to prove to PB you’re town, thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

vanilla cop will still be important since the vanilla cop claims result before the rest of massclaim

Flip clidd

italiano on fey, gunsmith Akarin, rolestop {pool of S&W and Sarah}, replacement vanilla cops Olaf

Lock?

Why did Krazy want to be RS’d so bad? I think S & W were bus driven with M & R N2. And because I used a

strongwilled

disloyal vigshot on them, the rolestop didn’t save them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And Pyro wanting Dunn to be limmed today and not tomorrow pings me as that the scumteam could win today and not tomorrow. That's why I'm concerned

Let’s say we leash Dunn on Tweetie, you will die and vice versa. You’ve super obvtowned now, no way scum isn’t killing at least one of you tonight. But if I’m scum!Dunn, I 100% want you in Elo, so I initially liked your no elim plan but now that you’re also a townlock, we’re going to have a Pyro, Clidd, Dunn F3, looks like and that’s pretty much ideal because scum only needs to sway one vote. The biggest mistake would obviously be to elim Clidd, although, nobody but Dunn is currently sr him.

The way I see it, if we can agree that Krazy anti associatives clear Clidd, it really doesn’t matter because if Dunn is town, we get the firey snowman next.

But I will dig deep in scum ISOs to solve this game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy please, those speculations are good as any

Okay sorry, I just haven’t liked Dunn’s D7 play very much and I really think Kanna’s right about Clidd. <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

Scum stump can't have powers she's right

I thought Hectic did last game? but don’t recall. I know FL didn’t.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I do think the Dunn wagon is 2/2 for town but I think sorting clidd/marci at the moment is more interesting to me (also I don't think Dunn goes for a repeat of Titus v. Ali d1 as scum)

-S

@Titus can you link that game again for us and I’m assuming from this that Dunn was scum in that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

148 i like not in an alignment related way, but a "oh noraa" sort of way

bm/batsu/fey town!
batsu vs fey was strongly town-indicative for the both of them i feel
i also want soulread clidd as town!!

war and peace is still a fine votepark. this smells like tmi

Batsunami is likely town based on their enthusiasm here. They don't particularly like scum, and it feels pretty genuine enthusiasm. Aside from that, not really.

if war and peace flips scum at any point, i'd be happy to townlock pyro! i don't think this bus comes from a scumbuddy ever

. but until then, i will keep my fire extinguisher nearby just in case...

~mitsuha

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: italiano
thanks for the scum claim friend

That wagon’s not happening, Why is he scum?

Don't tell me what's not happening when we have an entire week of gameplay

I’m the town stump

and....?

And she knows more about the setup than we do, namely who the masons are, so we shouldn't try to eliminate when she's saying no on day 1 or risk outing masons

UNVOTE: War and Peace

Oh this is really interesting, this post reads like a bait and switch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why does Dunn unvote W & P in response to hard my vetoing Italiano wagon?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If the game slows down by the time I get back on later, I'll probably go back and skim through. Finishing lunch, and back to work soon though.

Okay, mostly I want votes on Clidd because Titus told me that's what she needed for her VCA. But also because the read on Charlie and Snoopy didn't attempt to differentiate the two heads, just found a reason to have a non-consensus read.

It's really hard to pick like some special event that happened.

My hydra partner getting banned isn't even exciting because it wasn't based on anything in this game.

Yeah there's a lot of shitposting, but some of it is funny and there's plenty of readable stuff in there.

But there isn't like some big

momenty

, you know?

akarin is so f'n town it's like, insane

is this what it was like being with chito and yuuri, I've never had that experience from the outside

My read is losing strength over time, you need to towntell in the next 24 hours, Sam.

No, the vote was late. Didn't you notice any difference between this game and our past game?

this is kinda ... what's the word? theatrical? performative? idk don't like it tho

I should be scummy in your perspective for how I got into the game.

clidd actually just seems really scummy here?

TITUS DID YOU STEAL MY SHERLOCK BUDDY?

Akarin is a townlean.

Differentiating the heads hasn't changed my conclusion about the slot, but her observation on this was towny.

hmmm this take isn't bad though

Charlie and Snoopy requested replacement

okay can I just say this... makes me really sad

Marci I hope the pace of this game or any of the jokey shenanigans so far didn't scare you off

Shadow I was actually really enjoying this engagement with you and I'm really really sad to see you go

this really just did some damage to my mood

okay this time for real, I'm just gonna break for the night, or try to at least

-S

More evidence for Clidd!town. That’s textbook scum 101, sr the slot pushing your buddy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That's a good point though; it was a really flimsy reason for Sherlock to townread Dunny for, simply because he was voting for him and Sherlock WIFOMed "oh, he wouldn't scumread me as scum again"

It's an easy way to townread a partner. Oh, ALSO, Sherlock has like this policy almost where he tends to OMGUS even if he doesn't believe in it for gamestate reasons. The fact he didn't to Dunny is also very telling

Yeah that is kinda damning

He did though? Wasn't he scumreading me for a time after I scumread him initially?

Link/quote. Where was Krazy sr you? I recall both PB and Clidd but when you?

[Nancy Drew 39]

If we're going to elim me today, fine, but I want to talk about clidd vs pyro today and not in final 3

Who’s stopping you?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy... you should listen to the dead town

Are you referring to Kanna here? She’s my mason remember? You don’t think I had anything to do with her Pyro sr? The only thing she was dead set on was Clidd town and of course Tweetie as well but that goes without saying,

[Nancy Drew 39]

Despite pyro's confidence it's not me and there isn't really a reason to think it's me. The case against me is what other people have done instead of what I have done

I was mainly thinking Clidd still, I didn't want to flip flop on what fey said before she died

My play here looks nothing like my scum game

I really don’t think I want to ever lim Clidd. Krazy sr him for pushing W & P. That’s kind’ve weird to do if Clidd is a buddy, don’t you think?

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE: dunnstral

VOTE: dunnstral

Explain

Riiiiight - because you’ve never played with me before.

Early.

You were never in actual danger atp. I think he jumped to C & S soon after that.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy... you should listen to the dead town

Are you referring to Kanna here? She’s my mason remember? You don’t think I had anything to do with her Pyro sr? The only thing she was dead set on was Clidd town and of course Tweetie as well but that goes without saying,

Kanna and Fey

I heavily influenced that read because I locktowned you and PB was super town. Why is Fey an expert on Clidd anyway? Both Pooky and Kanna correctly tr Toog. Pooky initially had you and W & P in his Poe. Fey locktowned Pyro and Kanna gutread Kid and soul locktowned Clidd.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Despite pyro's confidence it's not me and there isn't really a reason to think it's me. The case against me is what other people have done instead of what I have done

I was mainly thinking Clidd still, I didn't want to flip flop on what fey said before she died

My play here looks nothing like my scum game

I really don’t think I want to ever lim Clidd. Krazy sr him for pushing W & P. That’s kind’ve weird to do if Clidd is a buddy, don’t you think?

Can you quickly pretend that I'm eliminated today and the game doesn't end, and then MT dies. What do you think for the next day?

Pyro probably.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why Pyro can't be scum:
-Would have had to hard bus War and Peace and caused them to be launched
-Would have had to bus Sarah
-Had Sherlock suggest vanilla cop be locked to checking Pyro

-Claimed VT with a known vanilla cop around, and not nightkill that vanilla cop for several nights

Why Dunny can't be scum:
-???

Wow, really good point. If bus driver was amongst the vts, then Koba would have 100% died before REK.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why Pyro can't be scum:
-Would have had to hard bus War and Peace and caused them to be launched
-Would have had to bus Sarah
-Had Sherlock suggest vanilla cop be locked to checking Pyro

-Claimed VT with a known vanilla cop around, and not nightkill that vanilla cop for several nights

Why Dunny can't be scum:
-???

Wow, really good point. If bus driver was amongst the vts, then Koba would have 100% died before REK.

The bolded also goes for Clidd.

Scum had no reason to worry about Sarah since she was a goon.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why Pyro can't be scum:
-Would have had to hard bus War and Peace and caused them to be launched
-Would have had to bus Sarah
-Had Sherlock suggest vanilla cop be locked to checking Pyro

-Claimed VT with a known vanilla cop around, and not nightkill that vanilla cop for several nights

Why Dunny can't be scum:
-???

Wow, really good point. If bus driver was amongst the vts, then Koba would have 100% died before REK.

The bolded also goes for Clidd. And PB too obviously.

Scum had no reason to worry about Sarah since she was a goon.

Scum had a vanilla cop still in game but who do they kill?

N2: M & R, N3: REK. They waited until N4, to put the vt claims at risk. Like that happens like never.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Dunn or anyone, refute 6972 for me - the part about scum being completely indifferent to having their bus driver hiding amongst the vt claims exposed - until D freaking for because confirmed mason REK who was barely active was apparently a so much bigger threat to scum bus driver than lurky mason.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Let's win the game!!!!!!!!

VOTE: Dunn

That’s the smoking gun. If you have a vanilla cop in the game with a scum bus driver hiding amongst how many vt claims att 5 - (one of which was flipped goon) including Toog.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm excited, I have the fireworks ready to go

Scum might not have known about M & R’s role but there’s no way they have a scum bus driver hidden amongst the vts and switched Toog with REK. Would scum really take the chance that Koba wouldn’t change their mind and check that fake vanilla claim? No, they obviously wouldn’t. They could afford to kill REK because Sarah was goon.

We actually owe Italiano a huge debt of gratitude because Koba could have never been NK’d had Italiano hammered 5uffering.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I want to be a mason eventually for one of these games, it sounds a lot less stressful lol

It’s lots of fun unless the town stump decides to give you a hard time but that’s been resolved now, thankfully.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think it's clidd but I don't have the motivation to argue for it

But what about us listening to dead town? I’m not risking the wrath of Kanna.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It's just far more likely the scum bus driver doesn't claim VT in that scenario, and just claims ANY other PR. Dunny in this case has opted for odd night doc, to match with KidAmn's already claimed even night Rolestopper

Yeah, Titus was so over focused on mason hunting that she forgot that they actually can’t do anything other than chat in the masonry.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think it's clidd but I don't have the motivation to argue for it

But what about us listening to dead town? I’m not risking the wrath of Kanna.

If it’s any of the vt claims are scum bus driver, vanilla cop is the very first kill. Scum doesn’t kill REK unless rolestopper’s scum. That’s why scum wanted to keep Kid alive as long as possible, he made an awesome shield and was 0 threat to them.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Dunn or anyone, refute 6972 for me - the part about scum being completely indifferent to having their bus driver hiding amongst the vt claims exposed - until D freaking for because confirmed mason REK who was barely active was apparently a so much bigger threat to scum bus driver than lurky mason.

Let's win the game!!!!!!!!

VOTE: Dunn

That’s the smoking gun. If you have a vanilla cop in the game with a scum bus driver hiding amongst how many vt claims att 5 - (one of which was flipped goon) including Toog.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Bus driver can self target, so it's safe for them to claim vanilla. Mafia didn't know that the vanilla cop would get the name of the person they investigated.

We know that didn’t happen D3 and 4. Only day we don’t is N2 but I strongly suspect it was S & W.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think it's clidd but I don't have the motivation to argue for it

But what about us listening to dead town? I’m not risking the wrath of Kanna.

What do you mean? Did Kanna think it was me?

She was adamant about it not being Clidd.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Bus driver can self target, so it's safe for them to claim vanilla. Mafia didn't know that the vanilla cop would get the name of the person they investigated.

That's not safe. By claiming vanilla, they're restricting themselves to drive themselves each night to not be caught by the vanilla cop. If they did that for whatever reason, the vanilla cop would die earlier than they did.

And alternatively, the bus driver could just claim anything that wasn't vanilla, and then they don't have to worry about being caught or driving themselves (which is what you did).

+1

Why does scum take the chance with Koba alive? I could maybe understand if scum thought M & R were crumbling something but we know for certain scum knew that REK was mason, so why does fake claiming scum vt, kill REK > Koba. How could they be certain that they wouldn’t change their mind and cop the scum bus driver with the fake vanilla claim?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think it has to be Dunn. No way does vanilla cop not die asap if scum bus driver is faking a vanilla. If I or any of my buddies are any kind of scum PR and I/them are fakeclaiming vanilla, no way in hell do I worry about whacking a lurky mason. Vanilla cop 100% dies the first night if scum has a bus driver fakeclaiming vanilla.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Awesome

If Morning's onboard we can wrap this game up

+1

Thanks again @Clidd, I’m very sure Kanna is smiling rn in the dead thread.

Let me break this down for you guys.

Dunn would have you believe the following:

Scum bus driver fake vanilla claimed in a game with a vanilla cop and town role stop.
They did this because bus driver self-targeting is apparently so much easier than you know fake claiming TPR.
Scum decided that they could 100% trust that Koba was going to not cop them N2 or N3.
Scum decided that a lurky mason who probably didn’t even know what was going on in the game was a much bigger threat than the vanilla cop that could totally bust their game up.
Scum was so terrified of REK that they decided to switch them with Toog.
Scum thought it’d be fun to try to play chicken by trying to play Russian Roulette and try by attempting to run up Clidd with 100% confidence that I would never seriously take them up on that.
Scum thought it would be cute to use reverse psychology and give their blessing for vanilla cop to target their bus driver despite that doing everything under the sun to get their 1 shot dayvig rolestopped.
Scum is either suicidal or likes to play dangerously because you know it’s not a real victory if you don’t make the odds of playing to your wincon so much harder than necessary.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I dont see any panicking (or at least any other kind of sign from Dunn) that we're throwing the game we had an advantage in away by letting scum!clidd slip away. Dunn obviously can't just say it's Pyro as scum, either

Theres a certain mindset you usually get into when the game is lost from your town PoV and you're one of the miselims, it has the power to get you really into it at times

Dunn doesn't give the appearance of a frustrated townie (As Kid did) either

He just seems like scum who cant do anything without giving it massive effort and even then there'd be no promise of winning

I have not actually reviewed the case itself but just its existence and the response are possibly more telling anyway

Right, Kidd really did sound super frustrated. And if you consider game balance, we have a one shot night skipper to go along with scum 1 shot dayvig but remember I had a strongwilled disloyal 1 shot vig and Dunn also only claimed odd night doc after Gamma claimed even night rolestopper.
Also Pyro confidently willing to die if Dunn flips town (and Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and Easter bunny are all real you guize) rarely comes from scum. Tweetie is mech clear and PB and Clidd by anti associatives.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It would be easier if Dunn expands everything he's thinking about the game and demonstrates his reasoning. If he's coming from a town mentality, we will be able to identify. If not, nothing is going to change.

As the game is rn, I'm inclined to consider Pyro as more likely to be town than Dunn, but unfortunately I still couldn't see anything that I could attribute exclusively to town!Pyro (and lock him).

So it's on Dunn now to act if he's town, otherwise my perception still points (60%) to Pyro being town here.

If scum bus driver is amongst the vt claims, REK doesn’t get switched with Toog N3 unless scum also has a rolestopper/alien.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Awesome

If Morning's onboard we can wrap this game up

I'm excited, I have the fireworks ready to go

Let's win the game!!!!!!!!

+1

[Nancy Drew 39]

Clidd
Dunnstral (1) - Pyro
Morning Tweet
Pyro
Pink Ball

5 alive 3 to kill
(expired on 2021-04-06 00:14:14)

Who will volunteer to be my 3 heroes and win this for town?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Clidd, I’m very sure Kanna is smiling rn in the dead thread.

Yep, her voice was heard. Things might be drastically different if you saw me as scum here.

Although you already had an accurate read a long time ago about Sherlock trying to miseliminate me.

Sarah hard arguing that it’s irrelevant is also extremely telling but the bulk of the credit for that should go to Kanna. She is adamant about her locktown read on you but yes, Krazy very clearly did want you elimed > Italiano. Even if I hadn’t have had him claim, his miselim was still right because scum could have very easily rolecopped him and nerfed all the the existing active TPRs. That’s why Krazy wanted him on Fey. That seriously pinged me because I didn’t believe for one minute thar he seriously didn’t think she was a a one shot.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Clidd, I’m very sure Kanna is smiling rn in the dead thread.

Yep, her voice was heard. Things might be drastically different if you saw me as scum here.

Although you already had an accurate read a long time ago about Sherlock trying to miseliminate me.

Dw, I realised you were town overnight as well, should've trusted her read earlier on that. Was always gonna push for Dunny today.

+1

This is 100% scum!Dunn’s caught meta ftr. When he got run up in Pooky vs. FL his response was completely different.

[Nancy Drew 39]

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=85191&user_select%5B%5D=27717

Town!Dunn in Pooky vs FL

[Nancy Drew 39]

Batsunami
Fey
Clidd
Morty and Rick
Red Eye Knights
Toogeloo
ItalianoVD
Saudade
Gamma Emerald
Starcrossed

SaraharaS
Dunnstral
Sherlock and Watson

5uffering

War and Peace

5uffering - My read on him depends a lot on his main which is a little frustrating
Starcrossed - Kanna is towny and Pooky is scummy
Dunnstral - Takes are fine, but the shift in tone is bothering me. I'm used to him being harsher as town

Impressive. Btw, eventhough I hated you pushing Starcrossed, I pushed you harder deliberately because I somehow knew you would help us solve this game. I honestly don’t know how I missed that smoking gun but if I had, I would have never wrongly mech cleared Dunn.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Titus, did you miss my request wrt to Titus vs Alisae game link where apparently Dunn was scum, correct? I know you already gave it but it would make it much easier for me if you just reposted it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sorry I realize you were waiting for something but I didn't want to miss the chance of hammering

\o/

I think that’s a hammer: Pyro, Clidd, you.

Now we just need to wait on Alisae/Math to wrap this up.

@mod

@Tweetie, you can still vote just for the bragging rights.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Actions
--
D1
Fey Skips the night
--
N2
Dunn Busdrives War and Peace and Rick and Morty
Kidamn Rolestops Rick and Morty
MT Messages Starcrossed
Mafia shoots War and Peace
Nancy shoots Sherlock and Watson
Koba checks War and Peace
War and Peace checks Red Eye Knights
--
N3
Dun busdrives Red Eye Knights and Toogeloo
MT messages someone I forget who KEKW
Mafia shoot Toogeloo
Koba checks Red Eye Knights*
--
N4
Dunn busdrives Kidamn and Koba
KidAmn rolestops Dunnstral
MT messages Sara
Dunn shoots Kidamn
Koba checks Pink Ball
--
from N5 and onward it goes
MT Messages someone
Mafia shoots someone

Yep modding

Wow, so why didn’t Sarah respond to Tweetie’s message then?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Koba's result was based on Math giving War and Peace information on how to fakeclaim Gunsmith with their results and they included the name of the target in their post. I went with this since this sets precedent for Koba's result which is why they got Toogeloo specifically mentioned in their result.

I probably modded this poorly but luckily MathBlade is a based co-mod and this might have fallen apart if not for them, idunno.

I didn't read the game but I know that these setups shouldn't have masons anymore and I highly suggest that they shouldn't for anyone who wants to run this style of game. It makes gameplay awful.

But the masonry is hands down the best part of the game, it’s my favourite town role.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was townreading you after your Dunn case, Pyro, but I needed to be sure in case it was clidd and I had to choose in LyLo. Good job not only becoming obvtown so close to LyLo, but also being right before even getting there.

Happpy for you Nancy, and for being able to contribute to this win!

You replacing an aggravating slot towntelling on their way out was the best part. <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

I love making powers subvert expectations.

There was a chance Nancy got a fake guilty if she woulda hit rolestopped town. That woulda been wowza.

How? I had a strongwilled disloyal vigshot? It bypasses everything including rolestopper and especially bus drivers. Strongwilled means nothing can bypass it no?

[Nancy Drew 39]

And this is truly the best readlist in the game (6975), lol.

even when i havent even replaced into the game yet i get mistakenly PoE'd .... I hate it here.

It wasn’t you, your predecessor played really scummy.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Koba's result was based on Math giving War and Peace information on how to fakeclaim Gunsmith with their results and they included the name of the target in their post. I went with this since this sets precedent for Koba's result which is why they got Toogeloo specifically mentioned in their result.

I probably modded this poorly but luckily MathBlade is a based co-mod and this might have fallen apart if not for them, idunno.

I didn't read the game but I know that these setups shouldn't have masons anymore and I highly suggest that they shouldn't for anyone who wants to run this style of game. It makes gameplay awful.

But the masonry is hands down the best part of the game, it’s my favourite town role.

but what about for the people who aren't masons and are mafia

It honestly didn’t bother me when I was scum, it was the excess of damning and unbalanced TPR in that game I took issue with.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I love making powers subvert expectations.

There was a chance Nancy got a fake guilty if she woulda hit rolestopped town. That woulda been wowza.

How? I had a strongwilled disloyal vigshot? It bypasses everything including rolestopper and especially bus drivers. Strongwilled means nothing can bypass it no?

Strongman bypasses roleblocks/rolestops
Strongwilled bypasses redirection.

I don’t understand, how could I possibly get a fake guilty on RS’d town and there wasn’t even a strongman in the setup.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Koba's result was based on Math giving War and Peace information on how to fakeclaim Gunsmith with their results and they included the name of the target in their post. I went with this since this sets precedent for Koba's result which is why they got Toogeloo specifically mentioned in their result.

I probably modded this poorly but luckily MathBlade is a based co-mod and this might have fallen apart if not for them, idunno.

I didn't read the game but I know that these setups shouldn't have masons anymore and I highly suggest that they shouldn't for anyone who wants to run this style of game. It makes gameplay awful.

But the masonry is hands down the best part of the game, it’s my favourite town role.

but what about for the people who aren't masons and are mafia

It honestly didn’t bother me when I was scum, it was the excess of damning and unbalanced TPR in that game I took issue with.

ok but objectively its really oppressive to play against and as a villager nothing you do matters if you can just sheep someone who has more information than you

I have yet to play as a villager but tbh, unless the town stump is playing like FL, I still think I’d really enjoy that but if I had to do it over, probably wait and take at least one strongwilled loyal neighbourize > mason because then you guarantee your choices and don’t have to stress about hiding your masons.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I love making powers subvert expectations.

There was a chance Nancy got a fake guilty if she woulda hit rolestopped town. That woulda been wowza.

How? I had a strongwilled disloyal vigshot? It bypasses everything including rolestopper and especially bus drivers. Strongwilled means nothing can bypass it no?

Strongman bypasses roleblocks/rolestops
Strongwilled bypasses redirection.

I don’t understand, how could I possibly get a fake guilty on RS’d town and there wasn’t even a strongman in the setup.

Fake inno
Wrong word my bad.

Shoot scum.
Scum didn’t die because town rolestopper them.

Are you absolutely sure strongwilled doesn’t bypass rolestop, because had Krazy not died, that would have messed up the entire game.

[Nancy Drew 39]

idunno what mathblade is saying about their setup, but I went with this because I hate giving towns power and I don't see why I should be giving towns lots of power in a site meta where towns are better than mafia teams.

So had you modded Pooky vs FL, we might actually have won.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Are you absolutely sure strongwilled doesn’t bypass rolestop, because had Krazy not died, that would have messed up the entire game.

Yes

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ong-Willed

[Nancy Drew 39]

Are you absolutely sure strongwilled doesn’t bypass rolestop, because had Krazy not died, that would have messed up the entire game.

Yes

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ong-Willed

Strong-Willed

Strong-Willed is a role modifier; it usually means that the player's abilities cannot be redirected or Roleblocked.

However, any result that may be attained can still be tampered with by roles that alter informational results, such as Framer. In short, it greatly increases the chance of the player's ability working like the player wants it to.

Some moderators will ambiguously use this to mean that the strong-willed player cannot be recruited (by Cult, Neighborizer, and so forth). If you are not sure, consult with the moderator.

Strong-Willed is not to be confused with Strongman.

Use and Power
Strong-Willed is usually incorporated for thematic purposes, or to specifically counter a particular role (like Strongman is). However, in practice it does not make a very large difference.

It says here it can’t be roleblocked, so I assume that also applies to rolestop as well.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I posted that before I saw you both responding to the link. My intention was not to “rub anything in” but because had we lost due to fake inno on Krazy, the entire course of the game could have been wrongy altered, so I needed to make sure that strongwilled was exactly what I thought it was.

[Nancy Drew 39]

This is clearly a game that I 1v9'd in, obviously; town clearly won because of my stellar contributions. Obviously.

Your Krazy read definitely helped.

[Nancy Drew 39]

like the emphasis on town having weaker PRs and there being more room for dayplay, soo much more fun than sleeping as VT and sheeping others cause they got more info IMO

That's why I picked the roles I did. Nothing OP but it would punish town for relying on nightplay.

Scum bus driver was a brilliant pick.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was really enjoyable - with a few exceptions that I won’t mention.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like RC thinks Bus Driver is one of the most OP roles scum can possibly have and quite frankly I agree it's disruption that disrupts in a way no other role can and the way it does it its way too much.
Same goes for the dayvig due to how it increases the lethal threshold that scum needs to win the game.

But I let you have them and designed countermeasures to the dayvig and added in roles that existed with the full intent of interacting with the bus driver.

What’s “OP” refer to specifically? Optimal?

[Nancy Drew 39]

OverPowered

Thanks

[Nancy Drew 39]

I abhor bus driver tbh.
It seems like a scum cop out.
Like “we couldn’t stop this with day play” or “let’s cause chaos” vs being the chaos.

I included the bus driver to prevent any follow the cop scenarios that might arise. Those cannot be protected via nightplay. Same with mason clears. We needed a guaranteed way to kill the mech clears.

Meh follow the cop couldn’t exist bc of your rules

Follow the mason could. Follow the vanilla cop would have been a thing too.

Follow the mason is why masons should be banned from the setup.
Cant stop Nancy from playing.
Follow vanilla cop with a vanillizer

I mean you could but....

Hard disagree with both you and Alisae wrt the mason thing. It’s so extremely stressful being town stump, that unless you allow loyal neighbourizing shots or even hydras, it’s to unfair a burden to place on the town stump. I would prefer have refused to be town stump if masons were not part of the setup, Also, one of the reasons for choosing masons is to help you figure out who scum stump DIDN’T pick. I would be extremely sad. if you removed masons from the setup - as either alignment.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I feel like my reads were pretty on point for how little I actually read. My exile was pretty dumb IMHO, but we still won. I had little to do with the win, but I'll take it none-the-less.

I didn’t even know you had been hammered, I wanted Sarah.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s so extremely stressful being town stump, that unless you allow loyal neighbourizing shots or even hydras, it’s to unfair a burden to place on the town stump.

It's unfair to place that burden on someone who opted to be in that position even tho they decided to be in that position knowing that this burden would be placed on them and that its one of the many challenges they have to deal with.

Also, one of the reasons for choosing masons is to help you figure out who scum stump DIDN’T pick.

That's another reason why masons are unfair btw. If you're good at mafia you shouldn't need the help that the mason selection process provides because it provides way too much.

Yes, I hard disagree with you, having masons was one of the main reasons I wanted to be town stump and yes without them, this game would have been even more extremely stressful than it already was. We are obviously coming at this from two completely different perspectives and I sincerely hope, masons continue to be an absolute mainstay of this format.

[Nancy Drew 39]

When is the versus series going to be redesigned so the stump can't have multiple masons

Yes, I hard disagree with you, having masons was one of the main reasons I wanted to be town stump and yes without them, this game would have been even more extremely stressful than it already was. We are obviously coming at this from two completely different perspectives and I sincerely hope, masons continue to be an absolute mainstay of this format.

Oh

See the problem is it sucks for town cause they just have to listen to the stump rather than play the game themselves because the stump just knows shit and you might accidentally disrupt that by outting masons

If everyone plays less and lets the stump determine more (like elims and night actions) then it's +EV but ----fun. I've never managed to stay invested enough to solve in one of these games for that very reason, except in Pooky's cause he didn't really restrict us too much

I imagine it's also a quite annoying feeling for scum to get checkmated by masons since there's a pattern where town's townreads are nonmasons and the PoE is masons + scum, at least it definitely is for me. This is more of a preferential thing though i suppose, some might like the challenge of having to kill the masons as soon as possible

There has to be a way to preserve the town stump being a leader without making it so town's objectively best play is always to follow the stump... although I'm not sure how. Of course, maybe other people disagree and actually enjoy the supreme leader aspect, but it's not my cup of tea.

Even if it gets me saved from 50 votes and like 3 separate intent to hammers in FL v. Hectic which was mildly entertaining

I do see your point but as town stump it’s hard not to feel that the main burden falls on you. I obviously always prefer to win but I rarely get that stressed about it as town - unless I’m literally the town stump.

I think perhaps not maybe identifying the correct alignment of the stumps would definitely change things up in an interesting way.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Make it a scum stump vs two town stumps, no masons

That would be interesting, I’d be okay with that. Because otherwise, I’d have to have a hood, you really need someone to discuss things with, that or a hydra.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Masons are fine, just centralize less power in the masonry.

2 masons, can go down to 1 or 0 for extra 1/2 shot powers like currently. The rest of town has a bit more power in response

This is also fine. So long as town stump can have at least one other player to discuss things with plus 1 shot powers. I believe I’m the first town stump to actually do this. If I had to do it over again, knowing what I know now, a second shot would have really been nice.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just make the Town stump a Neighborizer.

+1 loyal because if you can’t confirm allignment, what’s the point? But still like optional x shots.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Krazy actually argued if masons had to be used, the # of masons allowed should be reduced and the pool of who could be a mason should be wider to avoid trying to find scum because they just weren't a mason.
This change is small enough for me to not care about it and implement it anyway but it has a huge effect for gameplay that I think is good but I also think taking out the masons is better because why play if you can just follow someone around who knows more than you. What's the point if you don't get to have agency within the game.

Well, it could be 3 x shots then and at least one be a strongwilled loyal neighbourizer, then you are not only guaranteed your pick but they could also be a TPR.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Subject: Titus Hideout

Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)
Starcrossed (Kanna + Pooky)

Lunar Martian + Akarin
Batsunami (Noraa + MT)
Clidd

1+ mason in those top 2, 2+ masons out of these 5

we could dayvig pooky at the start of day 1 tbh, there's like, nearly 50%+ chance of mason right there

No idea why Krazy would think I’d masonize Clidd, I’m not even sure if I’ve ever played with him before or not.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Subject: Titus Hideout

the problem with waiting to save the dayvig for a vig claim is that the vig claim might have already killed the dayvig when they claim

vig is probably strongest town role in this setup after the doctor and the masons

3 masons
doctor
vig

+ ???

[Nancy Drew 39]

Subject: dead end

I mean, IMO Nancy is KILLING IT!

Despite like, days running way too long and massclaim and wagons that jump around like crazy, she's gonna pull this off.

I know it!

<3 <3 <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

Just make the Town stump a Neighborizer.

+1 loyal because if you can’t confirm allignment, what’s the point? But still like optional x shots.

That's even more powerful than masons. If it fails, you arguably get a guilty. If it succeeds, you get a mason.

No because you have less confirmed slots to begin with, so essentially the same thing. Only real difference is that you can actually target who you want at any point in the game and not worry about your masons being found out. I actually wanted to switch my disloyal vig shot to loyal neighbourize but it was too late.