Mini 2265: Bears with Guns 2: Pandamonium game over

[JacksonVirgo]

Yo this started. Completely forgot.
Won the last one. Gotta win this one too.

VOTE: MathBlade

[JacksonVirgo]

Will catch up asap

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Momo

First serious wagon of the game should be here
Only 3 posts so far (which is NAI) but 1 is an rvs vote, 1 gives lamist vibes, and the other feels like poor logic because it wasn't reasoned out and was just wanting to look solvey.

EBWOP

Not liking this vote from Meg.
Nagl when Jackson Virgo has less posts and just an RVS vote.
So why momo over JV?

Because I am super townie :good:

On a serious note a lot has been happening unexpectedly such as flash flooding in my area and planning my sister moving in with me. I do apologize but I will post when I can.

I have been skimming the game but I will go through once more and post more in depth but Toog seems like town that doesn't know how to towntepp well to me at first glance. Do not have any other reads worthy of being calked out prior to my recatchup

[JacksonVirgo]

Damn smily broke.

[JacksonVirgo]

I mean hell at this point with how obstinate Toog is being they’d make a great vig shot.

Maybe JV will "vig" me again.

Lmaoo I was gonna say the same thing

[JacksonVirgo]

HALP

IDK IF I'M MINDMELDING

OR IF MOMO IS PARROTING ME

VOTE: Mala no

[JacksonVirgo]

I claim N1 Novice Vigilante-Doctor. :D

[JacksonVirgo]

Alr time to catch up. Also if you are one of those people, above post was a funni

[JacksonVirgo]

Oh got the pagetop owo

[JacksonVirgo]

I am going to be viewing this game, from the start with a serious mindset. Even for the posts in meme-phase as catching up from the start, I find it hard to differentiate between what is memephase and what is not.

Spoiler: Page 1-5

First non-bear pun, must be afraid to bcuz they're an evil bear.

The response of 9 about 8 seems like an awkward interaction. Assuming 9 is referencing 8's meme-attack on the previous post where Roden naked-voted me. Also side-note. Roden do you know me from somewhere?

12 "I don't see Mala scum poking me out of the gate". That would be NAI, as they could be using that to get into your pocket, or a way to make interacting with you more lenient in a sense. Meme-votes have zero weight.

Regarding the toog vote, as you claim it is semi-serious I am going to add my two cents. I think you are honestly jumping some logic by assuming that what Toog said was serious, in which I do not think it was. Also not voting in RVS is not holding the game up?

Just from that stance by Math, I think they are the greatest chance of being scum here from page 1 outside of Mala (but that's from that post I said no to right at where the game is currently), but I don't think they or Mala are both so that is in a bit of question.

ok bear with me...

Above quote is from scum 100%

34 I completely missed the point of their entrance smh my smh. Thanks for the insight.

37. Completely disagree with this type of playstyle but I don't see two RVS naked votes happening from scum. Shucks

JV where art thou?

Are you beary scared to post because you’re a panda?

Why yes, I was scared to post. But only cuz I didn't wanna drown owo (exaggeration, in case that wasn't clear).

76 ooo don't like this one at all, I do like Math a little more with their response to that.

85 you throw a definition of a word they used out, as a counter-argument? But then you decide to use a regular counter-argument alongside it? Looks like you're fluffing up your arguments to make your cases look stronger.

88 nah it's cuz they're scum owo

[JacksonVirgo]

Right ok because your naked
Vote on me makes a lot of sesnse when there’s other content you chose to ignore

You what

[JacksonVirgo]

Also I didn't take long to abandon the whole full-serious thing lmfao. Oh well

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler: 6 and 7

135 again not a huge fan of this post from Greeting either. They say nothing is happening, yet there is, they say they think an interaction is theatrical, says it doesn't necessarily come from scum. By that wording it sounds like the ydo think it is slightly more scummy than not, yet they say there is nothing relevant to talk about and naked-vote someone that "needs encouragement". I would have honestly expected them to vote those that they thought were acting theatrical, to narrow down the core of that.

146 Do you dislike Rodens responses? Or the overall interaction betwen them both? I persoanlly think Roden is fairly town, not townie, just town. They are not acting townie, but their actions tell me they're town. I have no idea how to word that.

Ngl
I have never seen toog this active before in a game. Maybe that’s mainly I have been in large with him

They want to play until at least D3 in a bears with guns where they don't get shot by their teammate N1. Ezpz

158 I like this post by Toog.

Have to ditch, forgot about work and I gotta get ready.

VOTE: Greeting

Have this though

[JacksonVirgo]

Right ok because your naked
Vote on me makes a lot of sesnse when there’s other content you chose to ignore

You what

I disliked the naked vote that you placed on me.


And all of a sudden now you’re voting Greeting with me.

Just suscipion

"naked". I vited u bcuz that post was almost certainly forced. And I dont have context about the game cuz I onl6 y skim when I can.

I am voting with you because of you at all. I just think they are scum and if they arent. You or math

[JacksonVirgo]

You getting roused up by what u call a naked vote from someone that was not posting makes me believe I was right to vote you. We shall see. Greeting is a better elim from what Ive seen up to but I want you dead by endgame.

[JacksonVirgo]

I finish work at 3am AEST. Will catch up likr 2 hours after.

6 hrs

[JacksonVirgo]

Good luck with getting me dead by endgame. Once I become transparently town it’s impossible for it to happen unless it’s done by scum.

This is saying nothing. Literally just fluff as a defence. Its obvious I wouldnt elim a near conftown. Yet you are not and I get no hint that you ever will be.

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m not really getting worked up. I’m just finding it sus. There’s a difference between trying to sort you vs scared by one vote. (Hint: I’m not even nervous at all)

Of course you'll find it sus. Omgus is a concept that exists

As I said in a Discord mafia game. If you are Town, you knoe you are town and thus a case against you always looks like its wrong. In your case you seem ti be taking it as I am scummy for doing so either becaysr you are scum defensing yourself or yoy are town thinking its too stupid and thus scum. When its neither.

[JacksonVirgo]

Mala doesn’t vote Jackson yet says Jackson’s vote is sus.
Instead she keeps it on Greeting.
Thereby she does and doesn’t want Greeting to flip.

Jackson defends Mala finding it sus. Instead of trying to sort her.
That defense is rather sickening tbh.

Like this has bad bus all over it.

I what now

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m not really getting worked up. I’m just finding it sus. There’s a difference between trying to sort you vs scared by one vote. (Hint: I’m not even nervous at all)

Of course you'll find it sus. Omgus is a concept that exists

As I said in a Discord mafia game. If you are Town, you knoe you are town and thus a case against you always looks like its wrong. In your case you seem ti be taking it as I am scummy for doing so either becaysr you are scum defensing yourself or yoy are town thinking its too stupid and thus scum. When its neither.

This is a defense of Mala

“Of course you’ll find it sus” It’s about propping her thoughts up as valid versus analyzing her slot.

I am not defendiny their slot. What. I was assuming them as town when stating that because if they are town I dont w ant them reading me falsely as scum. Your comprehension skills seem lacklustre, that or opportunistic

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would I be on momo. What have I said that would have me seem 5o want to be on them over greeting. Did you not read my posts at all.

Mala is my second interchangeable with yourself

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would I be on momo. What have I said that would have me seem 5o want to be on them over greeting. Did you not read my posts at all.

Mala is my second interchangeable with yourself

Because momo is scum who didn’t claim on E-1?

I don’t know what the rest of that means what’s a 5o?

I read your posts. Greeting doesn’t seem sus and seems a name picked at random.

5o was mispelling of "to".

I call absolute bs on you reading my posts because of you did you would have known I haven't fully caught up so I had no clue momo was wagoned to E-1. I also have told my reasonings for my read on Greetings, but from your wording I assume you believe that your reads are final and all others are just random.

Oh but you definitely read my posts. Quit lying.

[JacksonVirgo]

Smh

[JacksonVirgo]

Ok you don’t know me greeting and I can promise you I don’t use mental health to toy with peoples feeling. I have lost s/o due to spiraling into depression. I have also lost friends and a job due to it as well.

So please let me know when you walk a week in my shoes and then tell me I shit on mental health when majorly of people in my field suffer mental health issues secondary to try to help others.

Either way im done with this conversation.

I'm sorry, you brought it up?

The moment you bring up your real life insecurities and issues they become part of the game. If you don't want people to use them against you then keep them to yourself. I'm not sorry for playing towards my winning goal, and in case you're wondering what it is, that's looking for liars and manipulators, which also includes emotional blackmailers.

Its more complicated than just keeping it to yourself. As keeping it to yourself can also lead to it being used against you

[JacksonVirgo]

Fwiw I think retrospectively that wasn't a good wagon from the moment they didn't claim. Not that I caught that at the time but it's quite sad

[JacksonVirgo]

Fwiw I think retrospectively that wasn't a good wagon from the moment they didn't claim. Not that I caught that at the time but it's quite sad

Can you give me your reads please? You’ve been awfully silent on reads and it would help out a great deal.

Awfully silent? I believe Ive given my reads up to the point Ive read up to. Havent read throuh the night bcuz I hate doing it during night phaes

[JacksonVirgo]

Of all the players Math, why JV?

Cuz Im such a chad

[JacksonVirgo]

I really really wish JV would give reads.

It’s like painful.

Are you like purposefully being dense?

[JacksonVirgo]

I just doubt you’ll see a read from Jackson ever but I hope he proves me wrong.

What is even happenint lmao. I have said my reads from where I am up to. If u wanna get upset at me for not reading later do that dont make up bullshit that I didnt say my reads

[JacksonVirgo]

Anyone TR Jackson?

I don't think anything has pinged me about them so far. Is there a reason why you're hyper focused on them?

I would like this answered too owo

[JacksonVirgo]

I claim N1 Novice Vigilante-Doctor. :D

I am actually a vigilante doctor. Not quite a vig but same effect. Because I didn’t believe Jackson’s claim and thought he was rolefishing I poisoned him (which is a delayed vig) and he will die on a set night. No I won’t say which night. If scum want to save him they will have to make a case and I can stop the effect.

I am pretty much a Joat with (redacted), poisoner, unpoisoner.

The risk is minimal if Jackson truthtold as N1 and Novice are contradictory.

Because I was a Joat I figured it a safe enough risk considering I am a Joat.

So if anyone townreads Jackson now’s the time. I was giving him and everyone else every opportunity to see if he should live.

Because Jackson didn’t want momo elimmed I felt it’s a pretty good elim.

That being said Toog’s reaction was terrible

VOTE: Toog

It was a joke claim lmao. Do you not see that N1 Novice is redundant and Vig Doc is also redundant. Didnt think this was hard to understand

[JacksonVirgo]

math did a dumb revealing if I am dead anyway

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Toog

This is the fifth vote on Toog. Bringing someone to L-2 on post 37 without so much as a comment (even just one saying that it's L-2) is not the best look.

You're right, sorry.

VOTE: Momo

This is E-5.

Momo and Roden is probably TvT.

Also damn I was right.

I really just think my early reads are spot on and it’s Toog + JV + 1

Incorrect except maybe Toog. Ur early reads were not spot on. U were 2 wrong once momo flipped yet ur ego is holding on super strong

[JacksonVirgo]

Also thx for giving me a reason to not catch up. I was getting kinda bored of doing it and kept procrastinating

[JacksonVirgo]

Dont heal me. I may or may not be PR but me living is always a bad idea at this point I am just elim bait

[JacksonVirgo]

Your claim sounds believable. As for JacksonVirgo, I'll need to look into that slot, because my focus in this game has been completely elsewhere.

Dont bother I am dying tonight owo

[JacksonVirgo]

Might as well claim. VT but that isnt surprising owo. Kill me daddy uwu

[JacksonVirgo]

Might as well claim. VT but that isnt surprising owo. Kill me daddy uwu

Math is probably town. A 91° triangle, but still town.

What does that have to do with my post

[JacksonVirgo]

Basically this-

Town

Math
Mala
MegA, Vander
Jackson, Strange, Toog, wave -- the idk tier
dwlee, Greeting

Scum

Having no scum reads at this point in the game is suspect

[JacksonVirgo]

Now I am torn on my greeting read

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Cat scratch nah this is scum. Voting a LHF, has no reads and then puts a retraction/safety net notice when they voted so they can get oit of a town flip easier.

I still dont like Greeting but I thini thats just their personality

[JacksonVirgo]

Dont care if this is a useless scream of a dead man. I am confident

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler:

Vote Count 2.3

Panda fact #15:Most newborn pandas die from diseases or because the mother panda accidentally crushes them.

[2]Toogeloo:

MathBlade, Dwlee99

[2]Greeting:

Malakittens, Cat Scratch Fever

[1]Malakittens:

Greeting

[1]Dwlee99:

wavemode

[1]MegAzumarill:

StrangeMatter

[1]wavemode:

MegAzumarill

[1]Cat Scratch Fever:

JacksonVirgo

Not Voting (2):

Toogeloo, Vanderscamp

With 11 alive, it's 6 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday, March 17th at 5:30ish pm CST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-03-17 19:00:00)

Imagine getting crushed by ur mother

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

I feel this is scum.

Agreed

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you reciprocate my reasoning at all though

[JacksonVirgo]

Do you reciprocate my reasoning at all though

I had a suspicion based on Day 1 activity. I don't not disagree with your reasoning though.

I am confused by ur triple negative. Do you agree?

[JacksonVirgo]

I think JacksonVirgo is a potential candidate and had you not poisoned them, I would have been quite willing to vote them out too. But since that happened, I think it's just about enough to say that you don't need to cure them and we just wait for them to die. There's a noticeable contrast between their behavior in Day 1 and Day 2. In Day 1 he contributed a lot and in Day 2 he's just posting absolute nonsense. If I were town in that position, I would probably be doing my best to either convince you to cure me or if that's not possible, at least give town something to analyse after my death. I think their reaction to being poisoned is an attempt to make everyone think that they don't care and so an attempt at reverse psychology. I say we just wait it out, perhaps that's the second scum we're looking for.

There is a simple explanation, which I thought basic comprehension skills would cover but I guess not, I don't care about the game as much as day 1 because I am being killed by Math. I don't care if you are like "Town would try anyway blah blah", that's an ideal and I am not the type of person to give two shits about a game I am being taken out of from almost the start, without even catching up fully of day 1. I did

not

contribute a lot day 1, saying so is either false recollection or just straight lies for the sake of trying to make a case against me.

I do not care what you would or would not do as Town, I am not you and you are not me. Stop pushing your own ideals onto other people, and if you stop to actually read the gamestate or the actual personalities/mindsets of the players. You would know Math is tunnel-visioned on his supposed "day 1 solve". Even with 33% of that solve being wrong, proven by the town-flip, he still says he is fully confident on that solve. Proves that he is tunnel-visioned and thus nothing I can do can stop his ego from taking over actual logic. I've been and done this a thousand times, I am not fighting a fight I am destined to lose (not claiming scum, if you want to take my words out of context).

[JacksonVirgo]

Dont bother I am dying tonight owo

How do you know you're dying tonight?

MathBlade

did not specify when you're going to die.

I am actually a vigilante doctor. Not quite a vig but same effect. Because I didn’t believe Jackson’s claim and thought he was rolefishing I poisoned him (which is a delayed vig) and he will die

on a set night

. No I won’t say which night. If scum want to save him they will have to make a case and I can stop the effect.

Oh I just assumed tonight, my bad.

[JacksonVirgo]

I didn't really read, I just saw I was poisoned (allegedly), and stopped reading cuz I no longer cared owo.

[JacksonVirgo]

There is a simple explanation, which I thought basic comprehension skills would cover but I guess not, I don't care about the game as much as day 1 because I am being killed by Math. I don't care if you are like "Town would try anyway blah blah", that's an ideal and I am not the type of person to give two shits about a game I am being taken out of from almost the start, without even catching up fully of day 1. I did

not

contribute a lot day 1, saying so is either false recollection or just straight lies for the sake of trying to make a case against me.

I do not care what you would or would not do as Town, I am not you and you are not me. Stop pushing your own ideals onto other people, and if you stop to actually read the gamestate or the actual personalities/mindsets of the players. You would know Math is tunnel-visioned on his supposed "day 1 solve". Even with 33% of that solve being wrong, proven by the town-flip, he still says he is fully confident on that solve. Proves that he is tunnel-visioned and thus nothing I can do can stop his ego from taking over actual logic. I've been and done this a thousand times, I am not fighting a fight I am destined to lose (not claiming scum, if you want to take my words out of context).

Oh look, I thought I was unlucky to have been emotionally blackmailed by one player and yet here we go again. Let me approach this in other way.

Is it an unrealistic ideal that I am expecting and looking for or is it just... playing towards the town win condition? If you're town how do your current actions help town right now? If they are not helping town because you just don't care then why is it so unreasonable for others to think that is actually scum pretending to not care in order to avoid getting killed?

This is a repeat of the

Malakittens

affair. And the argument is eerily similar and has a similar point where it directly relates to being consistent.

Mini Theme 2260 has recently come to an end. I played in that game. It had a really pretty, but extremely confusing theme. I did not vibe with the theme nor the players much and ended up being eliminated for it Day 1. I did not care at all that game and I was town. I was bad town. I did not do well, my performance in that game did not help my team. But I was consistent in that.

I believe that 303 and 306 were valid contributions to the game. You were argumentative and afterwards stood your ground. That is how I see it. The gamesolving mindset there contrasts with your behavior in Day 2.

So no, I'm not making stuff up and refusing to see that being poisoned can lead to being unmotivated. I just find that the contradiction increases your likelihood of being scum. Someone who appears to want to play, but then does a complete 180 because a player claimed to have poisoned them with a delay could be a scum strategy to appear to not care in order to make

MathBlade

doubt their judgement.

I seriously do not care that you believe games of online mafia should be played by emotionless robots that do nothing but play optimally irregardless of how human mindsets actually work in practice. The moment you insinuated I was not playing towards the town win-condition is the moment I know that you are not reading the game.

Just because my content is not similar to day 1 does not mean that I am acting against my win-condition. I am not stupid, but I also do not have the motivation to play a game to my highest effort when I am about to die, well this was mainly when I thought I was dying tonight.

I have done many things today that are towards my win-condition.

1. I am actively not creating a 1v1 between MathBlade and I for multiple reasons. This is a great deal of difficulty for me as I tend to retaliate easily, especially as of late but me doing so will hurt town more than it could save.
   
2. I have still given my reads which I get from still reading the game with the intent to find scum. But I am by no means motivated, nor do I feel I am qualified as I do not have the full background knowledge of the game to join into current in-depth discussions.
   
3. I know for a fact that MathBlade is in a state of ego-tunnelling and that fighting against that is useless if he has the power to kill me alone, I am dying and even if I do get out of it, everything I have done to this point will leave me as elim-bait later in the game which I know is not likely going to change because all my town games where I get suspected early on all end the same.

TL;DR there is no active point for me to try outside of giving reads when I find them, but to say I've been doing nothing but fuck around D2 is just plain wrong. Me dying is almost needed at this point if I don't want to gamethrow and get myself out of this position, at least that is where my mindset it but feel free to try and convince me otherwise.

[JacksonVirgo]

And by not reading the game, I don't mean literally. I mean you are not actively trying to form deeper comprehension on why people are doing/saying what they are. Rather, you are putting yourself into what people are doing/saying which will almost always lead to falsely-lead results irregardless if they are coincidentally correct or not.

[JacksonVirgo]

I know for a fact that MathBlade is in a state of ego-tunnelling and that fighting against that is useless if he has the power to kill me alone, I am dying and even if I do get out of it, everything I have done to this point will leave me as elim-bait later in the game which I know is not likely going to change because all my town games where I get suspected early on all end the same.

?? How am I ego tunneling

You didn’t give reads D1?

I poisoned you for claiming my role?

Where does ego fit in here?

I did give reads you just choose to ignore it.

[JacksonVirgo]

Math why not toog over Jv?

Also if greeting is scum; a potential partner would prob be someone I’m null reading. I don’t really have the greatest grasp on a lot of players this game tbh

Because I don’t think he as VT manages to guess two of my joat powers.

So I think it’s best elim Toog and let Jackson die

I will read arguments later to see if they can explain that.

1. Didn't guess it was a joke
2. How would scum!me guess it on day 1.

Again. Ur consumed by ego

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Unlikely. That’s too specific
2. Informed.

Even if I am tunnelled that isn’t because ego? This is a very weird path Jackson.

And I agree Dwlee Toog is more active as town.

1. It isn't. It was a joke role I made with Worst when I was still active here. It also came up in my brain because of memories of the previous bwg game where I fakeclaimed it to.bus Toog. Or are you selectively forgetting that game too?

2. Ever heard of occams razor? Nah u just wanna tunnel

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Unlikely. That’s too specific
2. Informed.

Even if I am tunnelled that isn’t because ego? This is a very weird path Jackson.

And I agree Dwlee Toog is more active as town.

Also it is in part ego as you still thibk ur solve is even remotely correct and forcibly making a path that ends in that false end result

[JacksonVirgo]

I am going to put this in as much detail as I can possibly do so that you can understand why what you are doing is ego-tunnelling and that I feel this discussion is stupid as I do not think that resolving this with me dying is a bad thing either. I also am extremely frustrated with you completely ignoring every single thing I say that goes against your case, enough where I do feel you are scum to my entire core but I also know this read is up in the air because I tend to scum-read out of anger rather than out of actual logic. My death will also solve your role, and I trust others to solve you beyond that and I am not reliable emotionally enough to do so.

Day one you had a scum-read on momo, and if I recall correctly you believed them to be almost confirmed scum due to them actively deciding to not claim when they were placed onto E-1. While I was catching up, I voted who I currently thought was scum in which was the moment you started thinking I was scum alongside them for not having the same read as you. This was the start of where you are making reads based onto either complete ego, or you are scum trying to make cases on those without actual reason. The core of this read was flawed, not only because momo was evidently Town, but also I was not even finished catching up with the game which was obvious if you had any sense of the game-state regarding me specifically. When I tried to peacefully resolve this flawed read/assumption, you continuously decide to

ignore

what I said. Continuously claiming that I had no reads etc, when I kept disproving that you chose to either actively ignore out of either ego, or out of scum trying to form an active negative reputation of myself, this was the moment where I started finding you repulsive but that's not part of the discussion.

From what I see, and feel free to inform me if this was not the case and why, these are your overall cases on me for being scum and why I think they are stupid in as simple terms as I can possibly do.

1. I did not reciprocate the momo read when I was not even caught up to the moment where I even knew they were a serious wagon.
   
2. I claimed a role similar to your own. You decide to immediately assume I am informed scum that is role-baiting. If you know the Occams Razor argument, you should probably know that forming an entire read based off of this is naive and prone to confirmation bias and tunnel-visioning. It takes the assumptions that I am scum as well as an informed role as well as informed specifically about your role and ballsy enough to openly bait a killing role into revealing themselves when I could get killed for doing so. It could be a perspective issue which I am failing to see because I do not know your exact role, or that I am only seeing you as either scum or stupid.

That is all I see of your case and the entirety of it is flawed to all hell, I can understand suspecting me for contraditory tone like Greeting or just because I am not acting super townie overall or not posting much. but you are actively deciding to take the absolute most flawed path I can ever imagine. I seriously do not care that you supposedly poisoned me as I have been constantly expressing that I truly believe me dying is important at this point, what I have a deep issue for is that you are either stupid!town or you are scum. And if you are in fact stupid town, following a blind ego-tunnel, this is me trying to get you to escape that position as a town killing role with your type of playstyle is a complete detriment and liability to the town as a whole.

[JacksonVirgo]

Reason I am trying to convince you to not be stupid is because you are claiming a killing role and as it currently stands I think you are the worst possible person to have received that role, assuming you are actually what you claim and I want to minimise the damage that you do.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Cat scratch nah this is scum. Voting a LHF, has no reads and then puts a retraction/safety net notice when they voted so they can get oit of a town flip easier.

I still dont like Greeting but I thini thats just their personality

Have no reads? That’s just straight up untrue. It’s true that I have no confident reads, but I think anyone who does at this point in the game is just very confident by nature or lying.

It's obvious you have reads. I am referring to you having no scum-reads at all.

[JacksonVirgo]

If you don't even have a scum-read, starting day 2 there is something wrong.

[JacksonVirgo]

It's easy for scum to have town-reads, and harder to have scum-reads. That's why I see scum sitting on the fence a lot, afraid to make a move in fear of retaliation or backfire. Nothing you are doing is convincing me that this isn't the case.

[JacksonVirgo]

I have two people who I’ve demarcated as willing to vote out more than other, I’m just not very sure of them. I play by mostly town hunting and ordering my reads from town to scum and whoever is least towny just goes into the “will eliminate” pile.

I have never seen someone's main playstyle for town being town-hunting outside of those purposefully doing so to make them unreadable via meta (as it is easy as anything to fake). It also opens you up to get pocketed super easily, like insanely easily.

[JacksonVirgo]

Note that Vanderscamp did not vote me, but Cat Scratch Fever used Vanderscamp's reasoning and then sheeped Malakittens into voting me. That's a great way to miseliminate town without bringing much attention to themselves.

Yeah this is reaching because vanders wasn’t voting anyone? So I wasn’t going to be building any wagons by sheeping his non-vote.

Also sheeping isn’t scummy.

Sheeping isn't. You are using them as a suspicion shield.

[JacksonVirgo]

To clarify further, sheeping by itself isn't. But sheeping is not the case I have against you

[JacksonVirgo]

You literally have no scum-read of your own, like at all. Day 2 and the most you have is a scum-lean and the moment you vote on that you are incredibly hesitant enough to intend, whether it is purposeful or not, to put the blame on being wrong onto Mala.

As I have said, you are using them as a suspicion shield. You either have no backbone as a Town, or you are scum too afraid to put yourself out there. And I rarely ever see the former, in my four years of online mafia.

[JacksonVirgo]

you’re accusing me of having no scumreads when that isn’t the case.

You don't. You have scum-leans on Greeting and dwlee as per 495. If you had a scum-read on either you wouldn't be as hesitant as you are. Either that or your read on them is so fake that you are afraid to put yourself out there.

[JacksonVirgo]

You have also said many times, including in this current discussion that you are "not very sure"

[JacksonVirgo]

oh well I'll post it anyway, since this game is so quiet.

Dwlee - scumreads toog and that's kind of it --->

nullscum

Greeting - they seem to be pushing people for doing weird/bizarre things that are anti-town while ignoring the town things about them --->

nullscum

JacksonVirgo - no idea. feels like he's given up but also feels like he doesn't care about dying. could be scum bravado but idk --->

null

Malakittens - already talked about a bit earlier but also I think their reaction to being pushed reads as genuinely tilted rather than trying to emotionally manipulate --->

townlean

Math - I believe their claim, and I also kind of don't think they would claim so early as scum --->

town

MegA - Kind of want to say town just based on 277 --->

nulltown

Strange - it's funny he called out me and some others for not contributing much to the game from given his ISO also doesn't have much AI in it, but that hypocrisy isn't necessarily scum indicative --->

null

Toog - some people here want a Toog lim and I don't really have any reason to argue against it, but I also don't have confidence this will flip scum. I feel like town Toog can be kind of low effort and limbaity. --

null

Vanders - we seem to be agreeing on Mala and Greeting, which normally wouldn't sway me much in one direction or another, but I need reads that are not null so I'll bump them up a bit. 446 is annoying logic but probably NAI given the 2012 join date. interested in why dwlee is town though. -->

nulltown

wavemode - interested in why they think Toog and Greeting are town but otherwise not a whole lot else here --->

null

This is also your post before stating your vote. Where is the scums. All I see is null-scums aka scum-leans, possibly even weaker.

Why lie

[JacksonVirgo]

One of your posts*

[JacksonVirgo]

You’re reading, whether deliberately or not, scum motivation where there are none.

I sheep votes all the time to build wagons. I’ll pull quotes later, but I feel like this shouldn’t be hard to grasp.

Scumreads do not need to be original or unique; I don’t understand why you think not having scumreads of my own is scummy.

Your claim of it being not scum motivated is useless, I am reading you as scum. If I knew it had no scum motivation, or your word meant anything about that I wouldn't have this read and the game of mafia as a whole would be useless.

I am not saying your scum-reads aren't original or unique nor am I saying not having scum-reads of your own is scummy. I am saying you don't have a

single

scum-read at all, the most you have is a scum-lean and if you say you do you are lying. You are also using Mala as a shield whether you are knowing or not, and I think you are scum for it.

[JacksonVirgo]

you’re accusing me of having no scumreads when that isn’t the case.

You don't. You have scum-leans on Greeting and dwlee as per 495. If you had a scum-read on either you wouldn't be as hesitant as you are. Either that or your read on them is so fake that you are afraid to put yourself out there.

1. You’re nitpicking at semantics

2. You can absolutely have a scumlean and not be confident

1. How so? Describe

in detail

2. Not when it's a scum-tell to have town-reads and no scum-reads. Scum having no scum-reads is MUCH more likely than a town not having any.

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: Cat scratch nah this is scum. Voting a LHF, has no reads and then puts a retraction/safety net notice when they voted so they can get oit of a town flip easier.

I still dont like Greeting but I thini thats just their personality

Have no reads? That’s just straight up untrue. It’s true that I have no confident reads, but I think anyone who does at this point in the game is just very confident by nature or lying.

Going to put my two cents but I just get the feeling you made up those reads on the spot I don't really have any evidence to describe why just from my gut just that's what I felt from reading that list.

Scratch that, I'm thinking of the wrong person, but it was someone's reads that just kind of felt like that in my experience that you just kind of make quickly on the dime.

Who's reads make you think that, I am curious and want to see for myself.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm horrible at remembering important details (don't ask me why I'm not sure how either) but it was probably was Cat Scratch Fever.

These were their most recent posts about read-lists. Was it these?

Spoiler:

I'm in the middle of typing up a readslist, but I'm feeling kind of silly for doing so because everything is basically null, and trying to read beyond that is basically like drawing water from a stone.

oh well I'll post it anyway, since this game is so quiet.

Dwlee - scumreads toog and that's kind of it --->

nullscum

Greeting - they seem to be pushing people for doing weird/bizarre things that are anti-town while ignoring the town things about them --->

nullscum

JacksonVirgo - no idea. feels like he's given up but also feels like he doesn't care about dying. could be scum bravado but idk --->

null

Malakittens - already talked about a bit earlier but also I think their reaction to being pushed reads as genuinely tilted rather than trying to emotionally manipulate --->

townlean

Math - I believe their claim, and I also kind of don't think they would claim so early as scum --->

town

MegA - Kind of want to say town just based on 277 --->

nulltown

Strange - it's funny he called out me and some others for not contributing much to the game from given his ISO also doesn't have much AI in it, but that hypocrisy isn't necessarily scum indicative --->

null

Toog - some people here want a Toog lim and I don't really have any reason to argue against it, but I also don't have confidence this will flip scum. I feel like town Toog can be kind of low effort and limbaity. --

null

Vanders - we seem to be agreeing on Mala and Greeting, which normally wouldn't sway me much in one direction or another, but I need reads that are not null so I'll bump them up a bit. 446 is annoying logic but probably NAI given the 2012 join date. interested in why dwlee is town though. -->

nulltown

wavemode - interested in why they think Toog and Greeting are town but otherwise not a whole lot else here --->

null

Basically this-

Town

Math
Mala
MegA, Vander
Jackson, Strange, Toog, wave -- the idk tier
dwlee, Greeting

Scum

[JacksonVirgo]

Probably. Though I keep getting the feeling I'm not actually talking about the right person here (though some parts of that just feel hastily made up to me too).

Alright, what parts of that feel hastily made up?

[JacksonVirgo]

Well, it's mostly the scumleans they have which I find are odd reasons that just gives the impression of "I need to have scumleans in my reads list." over thinking, "These people are leaning towards being scum to me." is really odd and their reasons don't feel very fleshed out to say how they could be scummy or be an actual read.

EBWOP.

Adding my own thoughts on this would be useless as you all know my stance on them.

[JacksonVirgo]

Reads as scum caught for poor reasons to me

Scum caught is still scum caught. No way to know for sure unless a flip happens.

[JacksonVirgo]

Again, I hate when people refer to themselves as "lhf". obv if you know you are then you need to find a way to correct your playstle : re greeting.

Not calling myself LHF

[JacksonVirgo]

1. You’re nitpicking at semantics

2. You can absolutely have a scumlean and not be confident

1. How so? Describe

in detail

2. Not when it's a scum-tell to have town-reads and no scum-reads. Scum having no scum-reads is MUCH more likely than a town not having any.

1. You keep trying to differentiate between scumreads and scumleans and push not having "scumreads" as being scummy. The distinction doesn't matter because I always push to vote my scumleans anyway if I have no confident scumreads. It's just the byproduct of playing using a process of elimination.

2. Sure but I don't have a problem with making up scumreads as scum.

The distinction

does

matter, lacking scum-reads is never townie I don't care if you are playing by PoE, this game isn't filled with super townie people nor filled completely with skilled scum players which make it difficult. You have no scum-reads, you lack a spine this game

[JacksonVirgo]

Also, re JV, I would not save there because the more chances we get to eliminate scum, the higher odds of winning we have.
To advocate JV not dying over dying he'd have to be someone we'd be happy never killing this game which I'm nowhere near.

Ah yes. Want everyone dead bcuz they aren't conftown. Stupid reasoning but I do want to get shot.

[JacksonVirgo]

But at the same time I want to see if you’re town so going to be on your wagon. If CSF is town you die at some point
If it’s scum I might not poison you

Ill get to ur other points when I get home but I would like to add that u should kill me regardless to confirm your role. If you do not, everyone should assume you are scum.

In addition. Why are you assuming town!me relies on CSF being scum? I am town and thus I havr no idea if they are actually scum or not yet u are acting likr I have redchecked them and thus a 1 for 1.

[JacksonVirgo]

Toog feels radically different from here
viewtopic.php?t=88618&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

My meta is very simple.

If I am losing sleep at night, I'm scum.

Self meta ew

[JacksonVirgo]

Vote Count 2.4

Panda fact #18:Baby panda's are cute.

[4]Cat Scratch Fever:

JacksonVirgo, Toogeloo, MegAzumarill, MathBlade

[2]Greeting:

Malakittens, Cat Scratch Fever

[2]MegAzumarill:

StrangeMatter, Vanderscamp

[1]Toogeloo:

Dwlee99

[1]Malakittens:

Greeting

[1]Dwlee99:

wavemode

Not Voting (0):

With 11 alive, it's 6 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 1 is Wednesday, March 17th at 5:30ish pm CST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-03-17 19:00:00)

Oh fuck. I clicked on the wrong post here. But this post said "LMAO."

[JacksonVirgo]

But at the same time I want to see if you’re town so going to be on your wagon. If CSF is town you die at some point
If it’s scum I might not poison you

Ill get to ur other points when I get home but I would like to add that u should kill me regardless to confirm your role. If you do not, everyone should assume you are scum.

In addition. Why are you assuming town!me relies on CSF being scum? I am town and thus I havr no idea if they are actually scum or not yet u are acting likr I have redchecked them and thus a 1 for 1.

That was a misspeak in a hurry I meant heal you

But yeah I see your point.

I was trying to bluster you to see how strong your CSF read was.

I am confident in it but I am not a fool. By no means am I certain.

Now the question I have for you. Do you reciprocate the read at all or is your vote purely just to solve me in a sense

[JacksonVirgo]

Game feels like it slowed down a bit.

It has. And I am also somehow the second highest poster now which is... Quite sad

[JacksonVirgo]

is there an actual case on CSF aside from the fact that JV misread her 495

if there is I missed it

1. I didn't.
2. Can you read my full case instead of assuming or purposeful strawmanning my argument

[JacksonVirgo]

More a vote of consolidation frustration. None of the wagons I want are progressing and explanations don’t help
So I would rather flip who you are saying then use your flip and that person as a barometer for the game. I will be dead and you will be dead so it’s like whatever

Can you throw your cases my way in one post preferably instead of quotes because as it stands now I think we both are on as good ground as we are gonna get and I want to read from a state such as this rather than when I was repulsed by your gamestate

[JacksonVirgo]

you stated CSF had no scumreads. but her list was a ranking, hence the names at the bottom were the scumreads

then you got into a pointless argument about the semantics of "scumlean" vs "scumread"

help me out, what am I missing. like, if your argument is that she is not strongly confident in her scumreads, then you should probably also be scumreading half the players in this game. so why are you not

You are again taking one portion of my case the absolute entirely and then complainin about the absurdity.

I am on mobile, I will give a more in depth clarification when I get home to my laptop

[JacksonVirgo]

Ignore broken english aha

[JacksonVirgo]

It appears that the distinction between scum-read and scum-lean would need to be addressed before going any further as the confusion, or lack of understanding why it matters is an issue here. I define a scum-read as being reasonably, but not completely, confident that they are scum whereas a scum-lean is not being entirely convinced one way or another but think that it's more possible than not. I believe this distinction is necessary in this specific circumstance because I believe them to be hiding behind the crowd to protect themselves from backlash.

Giving out scum-leans instead of scum-reads is an easy way for scum to be able to remove themselves from the liability on having to deal with the end-result of a town flip. It also is much easier to form a falsified town-read on somebody like they are claiming to be their prime aim for their reading than a falsified scum-read, meaning if somebody does not have a scum-read at a specific state in the game it is very likely from scum who is unable to grasp onto the current game-state enough to generate a fake read, as it is harder to fake a scum-read that is believable than it is to have one as a town. This is the middle of day 2 and the most they have is a slight scum-lean on two players, even if you were focusing on clearing town rather than find scum specifically, not having a single thing more than a scum-lean that they are not even confident enough to simply

vote

without hiding behind Mala's own reason when they said "I'll vote with Mala".

Before any of you say it's just the layout of their tier-list that makes me think it's a scum-lean, if you believe that to be the case you need to read the game. They posted a detailed list a post of theirs or two prior to the tier-list saying that they are

specifcially

null-scum. Nobody is lower than a null-scum to them, does this seriously not raise any concern at all to many of you?

[JacksonVirgo]

More a vote of consolidation frustration. None of the wagons I want are progressing and explanations don’t help
So I would rather flip who you are saying then use your flip and that person as a barometer for the game. I will be dead and you will be dead so it’s like whatever

Can you throw your cases my way in one post preferably instead of quotes because as it stands now I think we both are on as good ground as we are gonna get and I want to read from a state such as this rather than when I was repulsed by your gamestate

I don’t have time for cases no

And I am a wee bit tipsy because bday weekend

Pretty sure my cases would be more unintelligible than usual

As in you will never have time, or just because you're tipsy

[JacksonVirgo]

Mines more strategic

If you’re scum CSF town then Toog or Dwlee scum is pretty much proven
If you’re town CSF town then town knows that find scum on wagon
If you’re town CSF scum then woo hoo we got something out of it
And if you’re scum and CSF scum then hooray

So I kinda see no point towards doing the brain engagey shit while tipsy

There case done much as I care too atm

No I do understand the incentive to vote CSF here, I was talking about the other wagons that you said were not getting any traction today. I want to look over them in case I personally am ego-tunnelling like I claimed you were. I understand your circumstances though as to not post immediately however as I am writing this I am unsure how long of the day we have left.

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson you are almost singularly focused on me. If you genuinely think that not having scumreads is scummy, what are your other reads?

I've stated my other reads, quite obviously prior to my push on you. Maybe read the game

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson you are almost singularly focused on me. If you genuinely think that not having scumreads is scummy, what are your other reads?

And once again, you're strawmanning my argument.

[JacksonVirgo]

i'm down to lim wavemode too

on the basis of what

Your avie :lol:

[JacksonVirgo]

Mines more strategic

If you’re scum CSF town then Toog or Dwlee scum is pretty much proven
If you’re town CSF town then town knows that find scum on wagon
If you’re town CSF scum then woo hoo we got something out of it
And if you’re scum and CSF scum then hooray

So I kinda see no point towards doing the brain engagey shit while tipsy

There case done much as I care too atm

Um... Anyone remember what I posted day 1 about Scum blade?

Could you repost?

[JacksonVirgo]

Mines more strategic

If you’re scum CSF town then Toog or Dwlee scum is pretty much proven
If you’re town CSF town then town knows that find scum on wagon
If you’re town CSF scum then woo hoo we got something out of it
And if you’re scum and CSF scum then hooray

So I kinda see no point towards doing the brain engagey shit while tipsy

There case done much as I care too atm

Why am I scum with JV?

You aren't, as I am not scum <3

[JacksonVirgo]

But the logic makes no sense

How so?

They claim that
1. If I am scum, and CSF is Town. Dwee/Toog are the most likely scum pairs
2. If I am Town. CSF Town. Scum is on wagon.
3. I am I Town, CSF scum. Scum dead yay
4. I am scum. CSF scum. Both scum dead in this situation (this is impossible btw, as I am forcing my death here and I wouldn't push CSF

and

bus here)

What makes no sense about that.

[JacksonVirgo]

Toog

, do you think Math's claim is real even if they are scum?

[JacksonVirgo]

The turn around from not wanting to elim CSF because we were on it to being ok to eliming CSF is also suspect.

I have continuously said that I would think that Math is scum personally but I am choosing to let it slide due to possible retaliatory bias and would rather them confirm their role before I start reading into them. But confirming it would require me dying unless their heal gives feedback

[JacksonVirgo]

To read the alignment into Maths abilities they would need feedback on their heal. Otherwise we can only confirm their killing portion which is what I want to happen, them backing out of it with a heal is worthy enough to elim them.

Once I die, and if they can heal with feedback you all can confirm that portion of their ability.

[JacksonVirgo]

That's if they don't die of course

[JacksonVirgo]

Jackson you are almost singularly focused on me. If you genuinely think that not having scumreads is scummy, what are your other reads?

I've stated my other reads, quite obviously prior to my push on you. Maybe read the game

I am reading the game.

What's your read on Toog? Greeting?

I honestly didn't know you were scumreading Math until your most recent posts.

You would know if you read my earlier posts, but I don't blame you. They are in my wallposts mainly.

Greeting I thought was scum prior to you, reasonings are in my old post. Don't think I've ever stated my thoughts on Toog. An official stance would be null-town, because I do seem to connect with them more than I am with anybody else in terms of viewpoints.

[JacksonVirgo]

I am extremely aware that by me saying this I will attract the negative thoughts of Greeting who will think I am emotionally blackmailing (for legal purposes that's a joke).
I am having family issues and my content will be either irregular regarding amount/time or I might snap at any of you angrily. It's all because I am dealing with stuff I've never had to deal with before, well at least to this extreme so please don't hold it against me :P

Shouldn't matter as I assume I die tonight via MathBlade's way of talking.

[JacksonVirgo]

Tbh my wim for this game is just blah

I’ve caught scum
Case is airtight
It’s a freakin counterclaim
And we can’t even elim CSF to prove it
And I am just :(

So my wim is gone

I am assuming your caught scum is myself.

1. I am not scum.
2. Case is weak, it's just you falsely reading my joke as a bait
3. No it was not, and never was.
4. What, you are killing me. That's proof enough.
5. I am going to be dying from your exact role what is your issue.

[JacksonVirgo]

Can we hammer here and be done with today?

[JacksonVirgo]

LMFAO

[JacksonVirgo]

@Math, is that caught scum me?

[JacksonVirgo]

If JV is the caught scum why are you trying to lim the person he's pushing that makes no sense

It doesn't make sense even beyond that. Why is he upset when I am getting shot by the role he has control over? Wouldn't he be hyped that they think they're gonna shoot a scum, pushing who I want dead is just another reason why it just doesn't make sense.

[JacksonVirgo]

CSF/Mathblade is a very very very likely team.

[JacksonVirgo]

Like I said, Math could just simply be Poisoner. Claiming to be able to cure it seems like a plot to make it sound town aligned, but in reality, I doubt a cure ever happens. If it's a one shot poison due to JOAT, what's the point of the cure?

JV has been towning it up all day. I think Math was just hoping JV would roll over.

I think that's why they are locked into scum-reading me as they are forced with their claim. I've said constantly that they were ego-tunnelling, and that it seems incredibly weak reasoning that they won't budge from. And from their wording they are going to be killing me irregardless of CSF's flip, and yet they listed a bunch of results from CSF's town or scum flip. It just doesn't make sense from a town point of view at all.

It's almost like they are planning on trying to survive even beyond a CSF scum flip and having to kill me irregardless of me being the prime pusher of that wagon.

[JacksonVirgo]

Would explain their drop in WIM as well

[JacksonVirgo]

CSF/Mathblade is a very very very likely team.

You haven’t seen me as caught scum

I am just losing my desire for the game

Caught scum is my favorite thing to play

What

[JacksonVirgo]

1. Self-meta is unreliable. For all I know you cherry picked a game which goes with your agenda.
2. Assuming self-meta is absolute is a flawed argument, you can change games up on the fly or just not feel like doing what you normally do in any given game.
3. Even if you are like that in the games. You trying more now once you were being directly targeted goes towards that you are scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

Shouldnt matter what you think of me as ur killing me. Whats up with that

[JacksonVirgo]

everything JV said about CSF applies 10 times more validly to strangematter this game. I would say very blatantly and obviously so

60 posts yet no real hard stances. it's all just been questions and filler

almost her entire scum pool is just based on "associations"

this flips scum, plain and simple

Oh? I'll have to re-read what Strange has said this game as I do not recall this being the case.

[JacksonVirgo]

Okay I've done thinking

VOTE: MathBlade

I think this is scum

Looking back to D1, the hammer on Momo is extremely out of character for MathBlade. It seems like straight up openwolfing where the Math I'm used to cares a lot about claims and mech but here he just completely blew off Momo even getting a chance to claim. Momo's last post is them at E-2.

I think what Toog said about Math's scum pattern is also +++ which is why I revised my read on Toog. From Math's point of view it makes no sense to do this "oh well let's lim CSF to prove JV is scum" cause shouldn't JV just die tonight anyway? Unless the poisoner is a fake claim that they plan to "unpoison" JV tonight the whole thing just smells fake

I think they are as well, but I also feel CSF is scum. And that CSF is a better elim as they aren't a PR claim, and I also feel I might be biased as they are hard-tunnelling me (while still not? lol).

If this does get pushed over CSF I am not going to complain, but for now I'll be staying of CSF.

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait holy fuck who pushed me because of mom's lack of a claim.

[JacksonVirgo]

Was that Math? I feel it was math, if it was I want them out

[JacksonVirgo]

I refuse to vote for mathblade today
You should too.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk

Posting to keep this in my ISO.

[JacksonVirgo]

Also: MathBlade is claiming JOAT when we have a flipped JOAT if you're into mech arguments

I feel this is a bit of a strawman argument (if that's the right one) as they didn't necessarily claim JOAT did they? Just claimed they had two related abilities, poison and then a heal, which to be honest is kind of a stupid combination to have with a Town role.

[JacksonVirgo]

Another thing I just thought about: Because math keeps saying JV could die any night, he has given himself until D4 if we're just completely tabling him until we see if the kill goes through or not, and the kill doesn't confirm Math's alignment anyway as previously mentioned.

I like you

[JacksonVirgo]

We really need to eliminate someone soon. I don't feel like risking it on claimed PR even if the alignment has yet to be determined, so I'd prefer not to be eliminating that slot (though it's entirely possible Mafmen is faking parts of their role, I've seen way too many suspicions of a PR go extremely poorly to let that slide).

The only alternative is the wagon that my main scum suspect is on so...

This is actually fair

[JacksonVirgo]

Not the strange matter post. Dwlee's, was gonna comment on 742 but chose against it

[JacksonVirgo]

I am very torn. I want to vote Cat Scratch Fever, but the fact that JacksonVirgo is on that is stopping me. I honestly don't know why Day 2 is so weird. My gut is telling me that scums are being idle right now and hoping that town will redirect their attention somewhere else. I guess the other alternative is MegAzumarill.

What's your issue with me specifically? Maybe I can rectify that read now that I am out of the "attack everyone" phase.

[JacksonVirgo]

18 hours, people

I would also go dwlee

I'm not voting megaz or CSF

I'd be against dwell their last few posts have made them incredibly townie in my eyes.

[JacksonVirgo]

Was that Math? I feel it was math, if it was I want them out

I wanted you dead soon as you claimed vig doctor

I hammered momo because it was an acceptable risk given I was a Joat. The odds of momo being scum without a claim went up exponentially. Mala challenged me to see how strong my read was and because of me being the PR I am I took that risk.

If you hammer me while VLA good luck. I think what I have done and continue to do is the mechanically smart play.

Is that a threat to eliminating you? Bruh
Also I think it's you if that was you that pushed me against not voting momo because of my earlier moment where I thought momo was obviously a PR looking back by not claiming. You had fully caught up and thus should have caught that, but chose not to. Which I want to delve further into before moving my main suspicion onto you.

I am wary of doing so because I know I get biased easily and I'd like to remove that as much as I can.

[JacksonVirgo]

they didn't necessarily claim JOAT did they?

Pretty sure he did. He claimed to have the poison, the cure, and one other unclaimed ability.

He also just reclaimed it again just a few posts after this quoted post...

I hammered momo because it was an acceptable risk given I was a Joat.

They claimed JOAT after the JOAT flipped no? I also never read what momos role actually was so wasn't aware they were a JOAT anyway owo.

[JacksonVirgo]

they didn't necessarily claim JOAT did they?

Pretty sure he did. He claimed to have the poison, the cure, and one other unclaimed ability.

He also just reclaimed it again just a few posts after this quoted post...

I hammered momo because it was an acceptable risk given I was a Joat.

They claimed JOAT after the JOAT flipped no? I also never read what momos role actually was so wasn't aware they were a JOAT anyway owo.

I say this because scum would probably not claim a similar role to a dead PR would they not?

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm still operating under the pretense that if Math is scum, he's just a poisoner.

I'd agree for the most part but please answer my earlier question if you haven't in a future post.

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm still operating under the pretense that if Math is scum, he's just a poisoner.

I'd agree for the most part but please answer my earlier question if you haven't in a future post.

Repeat it? Maybe I missed it.

774

[JacksonVirgo]

I am very torn. I want to vote Cat Scratch Fever, but the fact that JacksonVirgo is on that is stopping me. I honestly don't know why Day 2 is so weird. My gut is telling me that scums are being idle right now and hoping that town will redirect their attention somewhere else. I guess the other alternative is MegAzumarill.

What's your issue with me specifically? Maybe I can rectify that read now that I am out of the "attack everyone" phase.

MathBlade

counterclaimed your claim. I know that you said it was a joke claim, but the coincidence is just too bizarre.

I thought 686 was made in bad faith. I don't attack someone because they have real-life issues or real-life mental health issues. I attack in-game behavior only and strongly suggest that everybody do the same. I won't come for someone because they have work or family issues and go V/LA as a result. If someone is being inconsequent or erratic, however, and then blame it on their real-life issues, it attracts my attention and I do think it's game-relevant. I explained this in 687 and I'm upholding this interpretation.

You have, however, slightly risen in my eyes, because you decided to fight to get townread or at least leave town something in case

MathBlade

's claim is real. But there's still other players whom I trust more. I guess I am kind of guilty of sticking to a gut feeling when I get it and then picking it over stuff that unfolded later in the game, so if you flip town I will turn out to have been too stubborn and inflexible.

Regarding what you call a counter-claim.
- I didn't really claim their role at all. I claimed Novice N1 Vigilante-Doctor, clearly a joke. as Novice and N1 cancel each other out meaning they cannot act. And Vigilante-Doctor, specifically with the dash to signify that they are also combined and thus cannot act as it'll heal and shoot at the same time on the same person, it was a joke role I made with the worst way back when I did setup design.

- I didn't really claim their role at all. They are a JOAT with neither doctor nor vigilante ability. They are a poisoner and a healer, those aren't the same.

- Do you seriously think it's more likely I am an informed scum, specifically informed about their poisoner JOAT role that decided to post a joke about their abilities (even though I didn't see point 2) or them seeing my role and basing a claim around it to get me eliminated? Or to give themselves a valid reason to scum-read me even when momo flipped green.

The post you are referring to was just a joke because I felt good at the time and wanted to spread that, apologies that it was interpreted in a way I didn't intend. Regarding your gut-feeling, I cannot argue against a gut feeling, I can only help push you in the right direction.

[JacksonVirgo]

UNVOTE: CSF

Want to wait for a bit before a hammer. Discussion is just starting up

[JacksonVirgo]

I refuse to vote for mathblade today
You should too.
Thank you for coming to my ted talk

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever
E-1
Here's hope to a better day 3

Putting these in my ISO as well.

[JacksonVirgo]

Legit I don’t even, I’m so done with this game.

Instead of raging out, try to get your thoughts out as not doing is better than not.

[JacksonVirgo]

This is the exact same question they asked me before and I’m more annoyed they just didn’t understand what I meant.

Why not just clarify then?

[JacksonVirgo]

Lol I feel soooo sorrryyyy (not really)

I'm just being lazy

[JacksonVirgo]

I've used this as a exact way to cop out of certain votes as scum before though.

Essentially what it boils down to is that though it seems to be a common trend on site is to me looking like a lack of effort digging into the read to confirm or point if you're wrong isn't really solving the game.

Strange: *gets upset at being read scummy*

Dwlee: "I think they aren't scummy because X"

Strange: *That could be scummy tho*

bruh, all jokes all jokes

[JacksonVirgo]

Yes, just wanted to point out that is really just not alignment indicative looking over my meta.

Let me tell you a lil' something.
If you are Town. Eliminating you is not ideal and should be avoided. Therefore, just like a scum would, take whatever opportunity you can to get town-read. It's just as important to do as it is for scum.

I do respect it, but for future games it's probably smart to not be humble irregardless of alignment aha. Benefits you no matter what alignment you are, and hinders you regardless as well. Not saying it's the best thing to do, it might feel super shit but trust me it benefits your alignment. Probably something to say post-game but I'd probably forget, if this fucks Town over I am sorry LMFAO

[JacksonVirgo]

Why the fuck did he not kill me. Also poor dwee cant even talk to Math

[JacksonVirgo]

VOTE: csf

CSF being counterwagoned does not surprise me.

[JacksonVirgo]

so you're outing my action because you don't believe there would be 4 town prs in a 13p game?

as for JV, he should've died by now if he was going to. math's role says it happens next night

They should have. But they didn't. My guess is that the kill was stopped by someone, and I don't think that someone was

MathBlade

.

The pool of town PRs is narrowing. It is very highly doubtful that the role which stopped the kill is a town role. There is, of course, the possibility that

MathBlade

lied or withheld the information that he unpoisoned

JacksonVirgo

, but he nor town wouldn't have gained anything from doing this. Which is why my vote lands here.

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Can’t add my two cents as I am just as clueless. Only possibility is Math either had a last minutr change of heart or I die tonight.

[JacksonVirgo]

Is this LimLo? If so Ill fight back otherwise just elim me and I can prove first hand why Math was biased and that I needed to die for this exact reason

Then kill CSF and get a scum flip

[JacksonVirgo]

Where I did not expect MathBlade to actually die, considering the heat they were getting. I think it might actually mean that their main counter-wagon (CSF) might actually be less likely to be scum?

[JacksonVirgo]

Actually, I feel like this is better.
VOTE: Enchant

That vote was just awful, irregardless of me wanting to die.

[JacksonVirgo]

What is shapegoating, I am aware what scapegoating is, is it the same?

[JacksonVirgo]

Thing is, I've been painfully aware of my need to die for a very long time. I kept pushing that for a very serious reason, and now that this is one elimination from LimLo, I know that if I die it would mean that we are given no more mis-eliminations for wiggle room or experimentation and at this point I trust nobody to actually follow through with any decent read.

Math should have just killed me.

[JacksonVirgo]

@Toog

, do you see what I see regarding CSF being less likely to be actual scum? Less likely, but still likely to clarify my stance.

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait no we're essentially forced to eliminate me here.

If I am actually poisoned as we speak, if we eliminate Town here. That's three town effectively dead. I am assuming 3 mafia just like the previous iteration of this game, 9 players alive. That's 3v6. 3 town dead means we lose.

VOTE: JV

This is objectively what we need to do because Math did a stoop and didn't kill be fast enough.

[JacksonVirgo]

Wait no we're essentially forced to eliminate me here.

If I am actually poisoned as we speak, if we eliminate Town here. That's three town effectively dead. I am assuming 3 mafia just like the previous iteration of this game, 9 players alive. That's 3v6. 3 town dead means we lose.

VOTE: JV

This is objectively what we need to do because Math did a stoop and didn't kill be fast enough.

By Town I obviously mean a Town that isn't me.

[JacksonVirgo]

And don't you fucking dare wiggle out of this one. If you try, you are scum.

[JacksonVirgo]

What is shapegoating, I am aware what scapegoating is, is it the same?

You trying to kill me like you trying to CSF as well.

Toog is your blatant teammate with these comments. Idk who is others though.

GG ez.

No you are just mentally inadequate to read any further than surface level in addition to weak throwaway association reads which are the easiest to bullshit without flips to back it up, either that or just scum which I am inclined to believe alongside CSF.

Pre-edit:
Now we wait for my town-flip.

[JacksonVirgo]

Can't wait to yell at MathBlade in the grave.

[JacksonVirgo]

UNVOTE:

Wanting to get the last-minute clout? :lol:

[JacksonVirgo]

Can we please, stop rushing votes.

It would have ended the same, it needed to happen or we risk losing today. But this fast was probably not ideal

[JacksonVirgo]

YOU LITERALLY SELFVOTED WHILE YOU CANNOT BE POISONED AT ALL.

MATHBLADE OBVIOUSLY WAS BUSY WITH LOCKING DWLEE ON QUARANTINE, HE COUDL'T POSSIBLE POSION YOU.

Oh derp.

[JacksonVirgo]

What is shapegoating, I am aware what scapegoating is, is it the same?

You trying to kill me like you trying to CSF as well.

Toog is your blatant teammate with these comments. Idk who is others though.

GG ez.

No you are just mentally inadequate to read any further than surface level in addition to weak throwaway association reads which are the easiest to bullshit without flips to back it up, either that or just scum which I am inclined to believe alongside CSF.

Pre-edit:
Now we wait for my town-flip.

I AM MENTALLY INADEQUATE?

In terms of reads, yes.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would you unvote? The only other viable option for today is to no lim, which is worse imo.

Says the person who quick-hammered.

[JacksonVirgo]

Funny how Enchant assumes I am Town here.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would you unvote? The only other viable option for today is to no lim, which is worse imo.

Back to this. Are you dense?

This and Enchant are both scum. This is theatre

[JacksonVirgo]

Funny how Enchant assumes I am Town here.

Because you literally died?

Did I flip?

[JacksonVirgo]

Death = Town guys. So easy

[JacksonVirgo]

Funny how Enchant assumes I am Town here.

Because you literally died?

Did I flip?

Are you trolling as scum?

If you were so set on me being scum, why does a hammer make you think otherwise? Does not that not tell you that the read itself was flawed? Either that or it was fabricated.

[JacksonVirgo]

Why would you unvote? The only other viable option for today is to no lim, which is worse imo.

Says the person who quick-hammered.

What does that have to do with anything?

You did the scummiest thing you could have ever done and then lecture about them unvoting :lol:

[JacksonVirgo]

Funny how Enchant assumes I am Town here.

Because you literally died?

Did I flip?

Are you trolling as scum?

If you were so set on me being scum, why does a hammer make you think otherwise? Does not that not tell you that the read itself was flawed? Either that or it was fabricated.

Because Mafia goes silent instantly lol.

1. They rarely do.
2. You don't know how I play as Mafia so this assumption is just wrong.

[JacksonVirgo]

Mainly to troll

[JacksonVirgo]

Good song btw

[JacksonVirgo]

Can we please, stop rushing votes.

It would have ended the same, it needed to happen or we risk losing today. But this fast was probably not ideal

Well now it doesn't even matter.

Funny to think I overlooked the JOAT ability that was used today, even though I acknowledged it. I was probably going to be eliminated anyway, if not today then tomorrow which would be worse.

[JacksonVirgo]

Mainly to troll

You are of course troll, but you only trolled self.

I haven't trolled anybody.

[JacksonVirgo]

Mainly to troll

You are of course troll, but you only trolled self.

I haven't trolled anybody.

Why i even talk with you.

It's just...

Whatever. We probably doomed anyway.

I've been making a point, which you seem to miss. And yes, we are probably doomed because nobody seems to have decent stable reads, including myself. If any of us did, I wouldn't have needed to be flipped today

[JacksonVirgo]

4 mafia? Bruh

[JacksonVirgo]

Town played like trash

[JacksonVirgo]

Setup was fine. Except the scum having 4 players, that was broken and slightly unfortunate lol
Dwee played fine, thought he was Town. Mala if push came to shove I would have probably scum-read over anybody after CSF/Enchant died but this is coming from retrospect who knows what I would have actually thought.

Again retrospectively, mafia played ok. Probably not the the state of winning without getting a single one of them killed, probably a goof on my end for not expecting a fourth but that was pretty unconventional so I don't blame myself for that. Math again was pretty hard-tunnelled, I myself was a little bit I am glad I somewhat kept my biases in check and kept on CSF.

[JacksonVirgo]

I think this loss means I get some pizza :p

[JacksonVirgo]

I was also painfully aware I was allowing a few people to be able to pocket me, a flaw that luckily didn't come to flourish but worth noting mentally for future games.

[JacksonVirgo]

I can't be upset at the loss. Pandas are majestic and superior creatures.

Lmfao, that's fair.

[JacksonVirgo]

MathBlade, probably worth noting that I do not blame you for your locked-read on me. It was valid, even though from my perspective it was flawed (which is a guaranteed, as I knew my alignment).

[JacksonVirgo]

Secondly, JV, you were in the right and I was in the wrong here. Sorry for that.

Don't apologies lol, I was in the game and had no clue if my reads were actually right or not. You had no reason to follow me just for the sake of me being ultimately right.

[JacksonVirgo]

I absolutely don't think this game was a waste of time. But I don't think this game can be compared to other Mini games I've played either. It was a different experience.

It definitely wasn't. I had fun :)

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't really like games designed to be extremely swingy since mistakes are more or less going to happen, or something will likely end up making one side win insanely hard and there's almost no chance to come back.

I don't think many people like swingy games.

[JacksonVirgo]

HALP

IDK IF I'M MINDMELDING

OR IF MOMO IS PARROTING ME

VOTE: Mala no

I had this right too. *sigh*