Mini 2273: Science Diagrams That Look Like Shitposts 2 [END]

[Corwinoid]

Sup all... first game in a few years, probably more than a little rusty.

[Corwinoid]

Is that a normal thing here?

Also, I'm a kitty. Meow.

Not really, seems like it's just his gimmick. Meow.

[Corwinoid]

I'm here, I'm keeping up on things but I've been busy lately also. I'm consciously trying to observe more and drive a little less this game than I have in previous ones while I shake the rust off.

[Corwinoid]

Normally strong personalities bust heads first instead and lead to the players taking sides. Generally though it's not 100 percent best for just getting lurkers because even now you listed 4 people and in a 13p game there's 3 scum. So a town lurker already.

But yeah it's still my main plan for now to try and find scum among the low posters first. Or at least force activity. But if you see one of the middle posters not doing anything let me know too.

5 days to solve a game. This'll be fun.

Would you say you have a strong personality?

[Corwinoid]

@Eiralox if you thought it was a going nowhere question maybe you should pay attention more.

VOTE: geraintm

I dislike the not-so-subtle hint at not trusting D1 reads. I've seen people have some very good intuition in games very early on. The rest of your posts bother me also.

[Corwinoid]

So to analyze more: Alex's vote on Elsa feels awkward but doesn't particularly come off as scummy. Seems like a "put up or shut up" kind of vote when scum in that situation could've made a much easier vote and gone a lot more under the radar. Unless that's Alex's game it seems like something that just pulls attention.

Alex/Elsa can be T/T but something about the exchange between felt really off.

[Corwinoid]

between them*

[Corwinoid]

Nothing that raises red flags for me, and I think he's trying to solve. I don't find 155 helpful, but meh.

[Corwinoid]

@Eiralox if you thought it was a going nowhere question maybe you should pay attention more.

What did you get from Elsa's answer?

I wasn't sure if the tone shift and Alex vote were organic or manufactured hostility. Her response satisfied me for now that it was probably the former. I still don't like that exchange at all, but I'm a little more town!Elsa than I was at 87

[Corwinoid]

You responding to that immediately after your activity level so far is hella sus.

[Corwinoid]

So to analyze more: Alex's vote on Elsa feels awkward but doesn't particularly come off as scummy. Seems like a "put up or shut up" kind of vote when scum in that situation could've made a much easier vote and gone a lot more under the radar. Unless that's Alex's game it seems like something that just pulls attention.

Alex/Elsa can be T/T but something about the exchange between felt really off.

Can you specify a bit more about what felt off?

I think part of it is the pronoun "her" in 79 threw me for a bit because I dropped the context for it, so I thought you were referring to Elsa. George was right that your vote seems oddly placed there. And then she signs off with the OMGUS/"Riddle that vote" post, which goes from 74 that seemed like a mellow promoting activity and avoiding division to 87 a couple of hours later where she's looking for a fight.

I think it's making a mountain out of a mole hill though, I think her progression is more organic than I thought, and I think I misread or was confused by your posts starting the exchange because of the context change.

Think Elsa/Clidd is where I'd prefer to lynch but starting to doubt my Elsa read, idk. Feeling a bit less okay about Crescent. I'll post more tomorrow.

Tell me more about clidd, I'm not seeing it. ELI5.

[Corwinoid]

I wasn't sure if the tone shift and Alex vote were organic or manufactured hostility. Her response satisfied me for now that it was probably the former. I still don't like that exchange at all, but I'm a little more town!Elsa than I was at 87

I'm not following how strong personality relates to the Alex vote. What would an inorganic answer look like?

"No." See 194.

[Corwinoid]

And if you want more context for why I want to "read more, drive less" and the confrontation is off-putting to me, see Newbie Game 1776, and the way RC/Drixx/Penguin/me played D1. Shit left a bad taste in my mouth and made me leave the game when I thought I was just starting to grasp what was going on.

[Corwinoid]

I agree with 199 for the most part. I'm more town on all three than not, but I'm staying open minded.

[Corwinoid]

I really, really, really hate it when people play every other game they've been in, instead of the game they're currently in.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Not_Mafia (4/7)

I don't think we need to be quick about this, but I'm find being parked on it if we're going to get more information from the elimination than the player.

[Corwinoid]

Excellent post, clearly we are mistaken.

[Corwinoid]

He seriously just put names in random order on a rainbow font while of course putting himself at the bottom.

Why do you people even let this guy sign up for games? How do you read such nonsense

Just wait, it gets worse.

No really, I checked, it does. But apparently he gets a lot of kudos after games, so, Not_Bad_at_Mafia?

[Corwinoid]

I am genuinely curious how the people who've played with him before really feel about him.

[Corwinoid]

you can argue that your summation made it easier for town, as i argue of mine... so your meta regarding that interaction still reads scummy to me.

I'm not sure where you're going with this. I haven't read Crescent either way, do you want to push something or bicker about fluff until something breaks?

[Corwinoid]

UNVOTE:

Possible VLA, sick

[Corwinoid]

Won't say who yet but reading the last four pages made 2 people move up in my town list and 1 down. I'm here to interact all day as well.

Where is Corwin on your list and why?

I really want to know what your fascination with me is. Since your RVS vote you haven't even looked anywhere else or engaged meaningfully with any other slot in the game. Seriously, what's going on here?

VOTE: UNOwen

[Corwinoid]

It's true he has not named anyone else as scummy, but he's also been somewhat engaged. I'm still null on Unowen though - It's nowhere near as bad as players like George.

Somewhat engaged how? The only people with less posts are gibus, GB and NM (and the mod), and almost half (5/13) of his posts including his RVS are engaging with me exclusively. This looks a lot more like someone trying to hide and shade a slot than any actual engagement.

[Corwinoid]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

[Corwinoid]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

ok but with above explanation and in context of my interactions with Crescent, how do you read this? And why not mention Vivax here, who's been way more on your ass than me(even voting for u lol). Strange not to mention them.

I meant 470, and the rest @ Vivax, sorry.

[Corwinoid]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

ok but with above explanation and in context of my interactions with Crescent, how do you read this? And why not mention Vivax here, who's been way more on your ass than me(even voting for u lol). Strange not to mention them.

Ok u meant to quote #470........ eh fuck it i'm brainded.

Nah, I woke up like 15 minutes ago so the mistake was mine.

I don't know if Corwin is higher end. Most high tier scum players I have experienced are able to cover up their mistakes just by being spammy as f*ck and having an imposant personality, so they end up convincing others that whatever their mistake was wasn't a big deal, plus they control part of the thread narrative through their presence. Takes lots of motivation though, so often you spot such a personality being mafia because you fish out a weaker teammate (so the stronger player loses motivation).

Could Elsa be the stronger player and one or two teammates under pressure so she fell off? Might take a few cycles to find that out.

Post I meant to link above, which should have been obvious since I was replying directly to the "higher end" thing. This is dumb, and if the two players who have their noses up my ass this entire game are even remotely town they need to start sniffing somewhere else.

[Corwinoid]

There are currently two players that, if they are scum, I believe scum already has this game won.

Just lay it out, is withholding your reads at this point really helping town?

[Corwinoid]

471 This is such an incredibly bad look I can't believe you're even serious. I have 3 finished games, the last was 6 years ago, and I'm open they were my only ones and I bailed because the IC/SEs in my last game decided to metafuck each other instead of playing their game and you're like "I dunno if Corwin is high tier."

Dumb ass play because you've been on my ass for nothing almost almost as bad as UNOwen is, and now it's seriously starting to look like team play.

Being mafia is hard, you have to learn the pitfalls first. And there's no magic trick to the game, it's just practice. I comparatively am (a lot more) bad at being mafia for example.
We used to have newbie games with coaching on my old site, a newcomer will often feel overwhelmed by more experienced players, regardless of whether their read is right.

Didn't he say he isn't specifically new though, just that he hasn't played in a while?

He says right there he has 3 finished games.
I don't know if he rolled mafia before.

I have not, and I did not this game. Three games would be pretty easy to check if you wanted.

[Corwinoid]

@ Corwin

Considering that you are not exactly below suspicion at the moment, what do you think about GeorgeBayley voting Owen for voting you, but having you at null?
Are you familiar with TMI?

The only two people suspicious of anything are you and the guy who's been up my ass since RVS. Since GB didn't vote Owen I don't think anything about it and I think hypotheticals like this are worse than useless. Asking Crescent to lay those particular cards out isn't asking for TMI--I also think his conclusion is wrong.

[Corwinoid]

How in the hell do you go from me asking someone to make a plain point so we're on the same page and now things, to me suggest we "keep knowing nothing"?

[Corwinoid]

One thing Eira: I come from a place where quite literally half the playerbase is a bunch of elitist, sexist guys, who do shit like this with every woman who ever plays there. I deal with players like you trying to make me quit every single game I play there.

It's the mass of people not trying at all who will always piss me off the most. People like NM are an abomination to the game that shouldn't be allowed to sign up.

Don't paint people in a different community with the brush of another one.

NM's low content D1 isn't helpful, yes, but I happen to find his particular brand of shit posting amusing, but barely, so right now he's getting a pass.

[Corwinoid]

Is there really a chance he's jester?

I have read this half a dozen times now while re-reading and updating notes... and every time it just sticks out like a fucking sore thumb. Why in the world would you think/suggest this?

[Corwinoid]

Is there really a chance he's jester?

I have read this half a dozen times now while re-reading and updating notes... and every time it just sticks out like a fucking sore thumb. Why in the world would you think/suggest this?

It's the first thing he posted.
If he's as good at telling the truth as he is at voting mafia, I should be worried.

And Corwin knew that?

Did Corwin play with not_mafia claiming jester in one of his three games 6? yearso ago?

No. I knew the game was Normal, and what invalid roles there are.

Someone genuinely trying to solve would want to know what they're up against.

[Corwinoid]

How would mafia know whether or not a Jester exists?

How would they even know a third party exists, barring simply having too few numbers for the game?

Like, my last scumgame we we 3/14. We knew for dead certain there was a third party because 4 in 14 is standard where I come from.

The point is that Mafia wouldn't care which roles they're hunting because they're informed. Not knowing Jester isn't a prohibited role in Normal games from an experienced player comes off as very much not caring about needing to solve.

[Corwinoid]

I got the impression he was experienced, but I could be wrong about that.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

I think Corwinoid just unintentionally built a case for me being town.

He said I would care enough to want to know if there's a jester so I asked if there's a jester, ergo I cared enough.

Or maybe I'm mafia because I asked instead of looking it up on the wiki.

Is Corwinoid really so hard to spot as mafia? :d

The problem is his argument is shown to be completely void as your Jester comment was null.

And NOW he votes you?
His jester comment is only null if you buy his argument that he didn't care about reading slots enough to know what roles are even allowed

and

you read that as a town action.

Corwin I'm struggling to find the procession here. How did this turn into you being so confident on Vivax?

[Corwinoid]

Formatting on that fucked up, should have just quoted 598 and replied with

His jester comment is only null if you buy his argument that he didn't care about reading slots enough to know what roles are even allowed and you read that as a town action.

I'll be away for a few hours for RL stuff.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

And you choose the one without a wagon and not targeting you all game? Why get off of Owen?

Because I don't understand what you and Eira were playing at earlier. I'll go for either one if you want to make a case for which one you think is better for me when I get back.

[Corwinoid]

Oh and Vivax is a virtual lock for town once Corwin flips scum, if that wasn't obvious enough.

That IIoA crap argument makes you lock for the third slot when I flip town. Go for it.

[Corwinoid]

That's not an if, it's a when. I will flip green, and the scumteam here are the people who've been shading/tunneling this slot since page 2 and pushing it the hardest now.

[Corwinoid]

Alex, on my end the entire attack from Vivax and Owen felt incredibly transparent and I had him absolutely hard scum locked before the end of the day. Read the three of of us in iso from a town!me perspective. The only reason I'm just slightly less gung ho on Vivax today is the possible false associative of Owen just shadowing them.

[Corwinoid]

^ Vivax is still trash. Flip me if you want to, but he's scum this game and I'm not moving off that position unless people find a magical fucking unicorn and a confessional signed by the pope.

[Corwinoid]

I mean, considering you lived specifically because we jumped onto George for reasons I still don't get, I thought you would rethink your list. Then again since Owen flipped evil (despite being a traitor who main scum wouldn't know he is it) I guess you'll stick to your guns.

Who would be the remaining 2 scum to you?

With a traitor is it 3+1 or 2+1? I have Vivax, I'm not sure who the third is.

Gera, Alex, Eira are town, I think NM is town right now. I would have stuck on Owen but you and Eira scared me off, I said that yesterday too. I'm null or very slightly leaned on everyone else right now.

[Corwinoid]

What makes you think NM is town?

Because there's a 75% chance he's not scum. None of his activity has moved that.

[Corwinoid]

I mean, considering you lived specifically because we jumped onto George for reasons I still don't get, I thought you would rethink your list. Then again since Owen flipped evil (despite being a traitor who main scum wouldn't know he is it) I guess you'll stick to your guns.

Who would be the remaining 2 scum to you?

With a traitor is it 3+1 or 2+1? I have Vivax, I'm not sure who the third is.

Actually this is a question I've been wondering. I would assume 3 scum still but probs with powers to counterbalance the traitor. That or maybe town has some weak powers, idk.

I'm

assuming

2+1, because 9 v 4 with a vig, even a one shot, is mind blowingly scum-sided. Detective seems powerful, but not that powerful.

[Corwinoid]

@Corwin, does your scum read on Vivax stem mainly from his questioning if there's a Jester in the game yesterday? Your read seems super strong and unmoving, I'm just not quite so sold as hard on Vivax as scum.

No. It came from the play after that. Being on the receiving end of the Vivax/Owen counterplay felt a lot like... mean girls... where I was getting bullied and nobody else was seeing it. It felt super obvious on this end. I had a lot of things going on during day 1 and couldn't get the posting time in in the last 36-48 hours at all... I was seriously just not able to put in the effort for how fast the day started rolling on me, I wasn't expecting 35 pages out of day one; lesson learned.

If this team were correct, do you have any ideas who scumlord number 3 may be?

Yes.

[Corwinoid]

I'll point out that despite the post-flip associative of Vivax/Owen, Vivax has still doubled down on me as the mislim today.

[Corwinoid]

Now, I need to go to sleep. Go find me some unicorns.

[Corwinoid]

I'm perfectly happy to die on this hill. Are you?

Better for me to be alive and hunt your partner, but it's perfectly fine town to trade me for scum this early when we've already got one too.

VOTE: Vivax

[Corwinoid]

Wanting to lynch Corwin yesterday but being widely townread, then having to compromise on George only to find that today we've somehow regressed to discussing me is mildly disappointing.
A reason for someone to be mafia shouldn't become better just because you add more content.

i was sorta assuming it was going to be a one shot slot, is it common for Vigilantes to have multiple shots? seems overpowered if so??

Isn't vig theory currently that they're negative utility, increasingly so with multiple shots?

How do you edit your posts? It's not allowed on my home community but maybe here you can look at the edit history.

It's not allowed here either.

[Corwinoid]

Not sure how I broke the quotes there, oh well.

[Corwinoid]

Also. Can we just.. Replace NM out, too?

I'd rather not.

[Corwinoid]

Because it's the only thing today that hasn't been exceptionally boring.

@NM, can you please shit post again for

our

my amusement? TIA.

[Corwinoid]

Perhaps I don't find him useless?

[Corwinoid]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

Tomorrow, maybe. I think you're early by at least a day.

Also, since it might not be clear from the last few posts,

this

is not a shit post. (Neither was finding NM useful).

[Corwinoid]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

Tomorrow, maybe. I think you're early by at least a day.

Also, since it might not be clear from the last few posts,

this

is not a shit post. (Neither was finding NM useful).

This feels like a really weird comment towards Vivax given he's currently voting Vivax..

The appropriate treatment of NM doesn't change if you're town or mafia, I think. I'm kind of hand-waving the stats right now, so I'm open to a serious counter-argument if someone wants to make one. Basically though, you have better information about his slot by having no information than you do if he were actively deceiving or accidentally misleading reads. At some point he needs to get hard filtered by both sides, yes, but who spends a kill on it and when?

[Corwinoid]

Spending an early elim to hard filter a slot you can treat with hard probability right now is distinctly anti-town though.

[Corwinoid]

If you spent 5 minutes looking at his game history, it has happened. They don't know if he's a PR or not also.

[Corwinoid]

Besides affirming the disjunct there, if he's town eliminating him is explicitly anti-town. Like, there is no world in which you should actively want to launch a town player as a pro-town move. Beyond that, the disjunct is false because they don't know if he's accumulating reads at some point any more than we do, and in a closed setup it has to be entertained he has a hidden solve he can dump at a future point -- this is not that future point.

[Corwinoid]

Try harder. Day 2 policy elims are not "actively trying to solve."

[Corwinoid]

I just explained why that is explicitly an anti-town move, and then you go and do it anyway.

I'd vote you again if I could.

[Corwinoid]

I'd say that since I'm supposed to do a lot of legwork and I'm reluctant to do that with NM playing the way he does, this should probably be the day we policy-launch him.
If you disagree, feel free to do what you want. But then I'll do what I want too, which is nothing while I have an unreadable slot.

I asked you earlier why you would've gone for Clidd given you last mentioned him all the way back in #182.

You should at least have an answer to back that up?

No other reason but the polished entrance and general difficulty in getting a read. Wildcard means my next guess for mafia if someone among Corwin, George, Owen wasn't. The NK helped me narrow it down.

Anything else you want to know? If not, I would't mind getting NM out.

VOTE: Not_mafia

We're 43 pages in, your candidates are someone you've been tunneling all game, someone you don't have a read on and might as well be random guessing, a slot that is *probably* Town, and you amke an early day PE vote on a play that was explicitly explained to be anti-town.

Ignoring any arguments I made earlier, what the actual fuck is this?

[Corwinoid]

> and Toffee as the silent ones.

Blissfully.

[Corwinoid]

Please, for the love of god play this game and not the last one. I literally don't care what happened in every other game you've played, and I can't be fucked to go read through every one that you reference to care.

[Corwinoid]

The situations are only comparable in your hyper-self-aware attention whoring self important flood posting world where you think you are a goddamn paragon of Mafia brilliance and everyone who doesn't grovel at your feet for the crumbs of your reads and play THE WAY YOU WANT THEM TO is "bad at the game".

Seriously, fuck off.

VOTE: Crescent
Policy vote for fucking off unfun players. Go away.

[Corwinoid]

Perhaps no one is trying because you're clogging the shitter.

Go outside, take in the sunlight and a deep breath of fresh air. It's a game, it's not that important, and you are not Jesus Crescent Lord and Savior of Mafia Game Mini 2273.

[Corwinoid]

And if you think I'm actually in any way enjoying having to have a post count this high to save this town from itself, you don't understand me at all. I feel like I'm one of the only people in the game actually playing to win. Sometimes it annoys me, and other times it infuriates me.

If I turn the OCD off, I believe I am stepping back and letting town die. The only thing to me that's actually important in mafia is winning the game. I don't care what I have to do and I don't care if I make the entire game hate me to do it. Outside of mafia games, I'm actually amicable. In them? Don't care. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

Your OCD isn't an excuse for personal attacks against players, asking people to replace, and asking the mod to force replace someone. If you don't understand why this behavior isn't appropriate then you seriously need to step back and think about it objectively for a minute, or 120.

If you think flooding out every body else's content, however slow it might be trickling in the first half of this day, is a "pro-town" activity: It's not. It's actively not pro town to draw so much attention to yourself and your personal needs that it hides the limited activity of every other play. It is, in fact, so anti-town as to legitimately justify voting you. When you couple that with your anti-town push to eliminate a random-draw slot at low equity it's doubly justified.

It's ironic as fuck for someone that thinks they're so self-aware to lack the self-awareness to know how anti-town they're acting. To the point it's likely deliberate.

[Corwinoid]

If every living player asks me to replace out twice each, I will do so

Not happening. But you can shitpost more and I'll be happy again.

[Corwinoid]

Corwin claimed scum to me on D1

Uh, no I didn't? What post did you and/whoever else think I scum claimed?

[Corwinoid]

This brings me joy.

[Corwinoid]

I can rest easy now.

[Corwinoid]

@Crescent, my day 1 play was shit. I had a lot going on outside of the game. However my Vivax/Owen pairing is genuine and I think Owen was vote ghosting Vivax to virtue signal his alignment, in addition to other things I've mentioned about Vivax' play being anti-town.

[Corwinoid]

ELI5 how that's a scum claim from me.

[Corwinoid]

Looks like Crescent is scum, no?

If Crescent flips red you're next.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Crescent

Talk about entering with a bang.

What a dangerous game we play.

I'm glad you joined us, now how about some thoughts about someone else, in particular Elsa?

[Corwinoid]

@corwin - did you say something like that?
because it was why i thought you were so likely town - i couldnt think scum would make that suggestion you had night info like that and make such a strong vote on vivax.

I don't recall saying that, which is why I was as confused as everyone else. I have not made such a claim, and I checked my ISO also.

Things I have said which might have triggered that are,
"I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now."
"Vivax is still trash. Flip me if you want to, but he's scum this game and I'm not moving off that position unless people find a magical fucking unicorn and a confessional signed by the pope."

But I'm not sure if those came after your original thought or not, and I have a feeling this is an honest mistake.

[Corwinoid]

Also, gera, you can consider me #1 on Vivax still, and driving that bus with the pedal on the floor. My vote on Crescent was to make a point, but with recent developments it suits me to leave it here for now.

[Corwinoid]

@geraintm, have you played with BBT before?

[Corwinoid]

I'm gonna try and translate these into English for my/our benefits.

Corwin means 'crow' in Celtic. I'm not completely sure who the hunter is.

> when the hunter stares down a cliff but has no wings, why do they not cast the first stone?
"Why didn't 'the hunter' vote?"

> why do they wander into the woods of despair, hunting a crow without an arrow or bow?
Not 100% sure, but I think "why are you arguing about this without voting or evidence"

> and if the crow squawks, doth the hunter remain silent?
Are they going to keep arguing?

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Vivax

Back where it belongs.

[Corwinoid]

Here. Vivax is appearantly very good with Roman history.

I'm almost positive he's wrong also. The triumvirate in question is most likely the scum team, Pompey the Great turned against Caesar later in life, but Caesar was bereft at his death after he was defeated (skipping a lot of details), and reportedly cried when he learned about it. I don't know who Keasar and Krassus are, but 'surely must wonder who in the shadows lurk' has to refer to the scum leaders wondering who the third is; "And who then can fault Keasar for thinking life but a jest, and the shadow partner naught but a jester?" is almost certainly referring to NM not being the MIT, and possibly suggesting the Keasar in question is one of the persons on the NM wagon.

[Corwinoid]

Sorry,

not

on the NM wagon would make more sense there.

[Corwinoid]

Thinking about it while I was smoking, I think the notion it's a vig claim is dubious, but it's possible since Pompey was murdered by the people he was seeking refuge with.

[Corwinoid]

I'm not very convinced the FishBloodedMoonToffee slot is scum, but I'm 100% okay sorting it immediately.

That said, I still think Owen was virtue signaling, and Vivax is scum for a myriad of reasons, and I think this is our best elim today. At the very least his play today has been directly anti-town, beyond just self-serving. The NM vote after giving explicit reasons why elim sorting him was wrong today was enough to justify this, and I stand by that.

I'm torn on Crescent, she would have been my 4th option, but made a compelling effort to take #3.

[Corwinoid]

I'm not very convinced the FishBloodedMoonToffee slot is scum, but I'm 100% okay sorting it immediately.

I'm also not very convinced it's not.

[Corwinoid]

A dangerous game indeed.

[Corwinoid]

Crescent can wait. Convince me Vivax is town, and that you're not on tomorrow's rocket.

[Corwinoid]

'Visax' *chuckle*

[Corwinoid]

Corwin, how do you feel about Gibus?

Alexithymic.

I asked you about Elsa first.

[Corwinoid]

I'm glad you joined us, now how about some thoughts about someone else, in particular Elsa?

I didn't even see this.

Elsa can be town. Or at least town enough that elimming there makes no sense Today.

You really can't have players like Gibus and NM making D3 in a game. I understand we can only get one Today, but leaving these slots around is dangerous. Sounds like policy elim, and kind of is, but I have seen enough from Gibus which makes me think he could be scum. Vig should shoot NM to sort that shit out

I did that math. NM only gets vigged tonight if we launch town. I'm a bit more ambivalent about gibus, but why would I policy elim someone when I think there's at least one better sort?

[Corwinoid]

And that's assuming it wasn't a 1-shot. NM does not get launched today.

[Corwinoid]

Explain why you think gibus is a better launch than Vivax today?

[Corwinoid]

A compelling argument indeed.

[Corwinoid]

I'm pretty sure I'm not elimming Alex/Vivax/Corwin Today, probably Elsa, too.

And I'm pretty sure I'm not elimming gera, NM, Eira, and probably gibus. If we're trying to reach a consensus that would leave you or Crescent, and I'd really hate to leave my Vivax wagon right now.

[Corwinoid]

You can't, you treat them with probability, and probability does not favor launching them today -- it's explicitly anti-town.

[Corwinoid]

That has been the most town post of the game. Look at all the effort he had to put into that shit post to color every character differently. I was literally in awe.

[Corwinoid]

He does provoke that kind of visceral reaction doesn't he?

Regardless, he's been useful for filtering the game into the groups of players who want to do an explicitly anti-town thing after having it explained to them that it's explicitly anti-town, and those who don't. Oddly, the former group currently only consists of you and Vivax.

[Corwinoid]

I somewhat-agree he should have gone D1, but it's not D1 and now things have changed.

If I put 8 green balls and 2 red balls in a bag, blindfold you and ask you to take one out and guess what color it is, what would you guess?

I judge him like my balls.

And I'll leave you with that thought as I go to bed.

[Corwinoid]

Vivax is still scum

Ok boomer

Yes, yes. Let the shitpost flow through you.

The posts you thought would trigger me did not, but I'll have more to say on that later.

[Corwinoid]

Elsa, ELI5 the Vivax TR for me? I know I'm tunneling, so break me out of it if you wouldn't mind.

[Corwinoid]

I have considered other options, but I don't find the gibus argument compelling, and none of my other options have really elevated themselves to where I find them more launchable. I don't trust BBT at all though.

[Corwinoid]

Alex, re 1427. That's my #3 I mentioned earlier that I didn't want to bring up at the time. I'm out of the house right now, and I'll add to this in a few hours.

[Corwinoid]

Elsa is an argument I've quietly built up for quite some time now. I always wanted to pop it late in the day because I do think there's a pretty decent chance of her being scum, but she's coasted by so much I wanted to give it ample time to strengthen.

Skate session was a lot shorter than expected, so I'll be back at a computer sooner than I thought. But same, I tried to sit on this so I had more time reading her unsus play. I thought it would come up tomorrow though, not late day today.

[Corwinoid]

Eira, can you explain any of your riddles from earlier now?

[Corwinoid]

Those kind of lures are exactly what spooked me about Elsa to start with, and I still don't like you in this game, or the gibus wagon, but I haven't caught up on anything except the last couple of pages if you put together a better argument than they're low effort.

[Corwinoid]

For those of us bad at the game, why is gib more info; just because you're TR Vivax?

[Corwinoid]

No, I love that you're in the game, it's definitely going to make it more interesting and fun. But I'd have powerlaunched your slot when you replaced in if I had the clout for it.

[Corwinoid]

Corwin, I have very good reasoning for scum Gibus.

Eh, fuck it, I'm in if you have an accurate VC for him right now.

P-edit: That remains to be seen, but I'll play for now.

[Corwinoid]

That's a lotta posts, guess I'll be busy for a bit. I'll run my own VC while I'm at it, -2/-3 is a little too close for me to jump in on faith.

[Corwinoid]

BBT, as a replacement did you have GB PR preclaim? Did you pick up any crumbs?

[Corwinoid]

There's a lot of feedback that I'm in a tunnel and Vivax is prob T. I'm not at all convinced that all my points are moot, but I've seen the damage tunneling can do.

Yeah, I'm game for this and I'll see where it goes.
VOTE: gibus

[Corwinoid]

Jesus Christ Alex, NM is not the elim today. Why are so many of you hell bent on being grossly anti-town over this? Put your damn emotions aside for a minute and look at it rationally.

[Corwinoid]

Gibus is an excellent sorting hat though.

[Corwinoid]

I don't have time for that today, and I'm exhausted from a failed skating trip last night so I'm going to pass out after work. If I get to it Today it'll only be with a few hours left. But a lot depends on the night tonight also.

[Corwinoid]

I don't have time for that today, and I'm exhausted from a failed skating trip last night so I'm going to pass out after work. If I get to it Today it'll only be with a few hours left. But a lot depends on the night tonight also.

Why did you follow her onto Gibus, then?

You recently called Gibus a "sorting hat". What do you think he sorts?

I didn't follow her anywhere, BBT is paying dearly for this vote, he just doesn't know it yet. It sorts my red blooded toffees from my blue blooded toffees.

[Corwinoid]

It would only be considered following if he specifically mentioned that. We just... Happened to want to eat at the same restaurant.

Since we're both here, care to share a table?

[Corwinoid]

I don't have time for that today, and I'm exhausted from a failed skating trip last night so I'm going to pass out after work. If I get to it Today it'll only be with a few hours left. But a lot depends on the night tonight also.

Why did you follow her onto Gibus, then?

You recently called Gibus a "sorting hat". What do you think he sorts?

I didn't follow her anywhere, BBT is paying dearly for this vote, he just doesn't know it yet. It sorts my red blooded toffees from my blue blooded toffees.

Uh

Do you actually think Gibus is scum? This motive points only to trying to figure out BBT's alignment

He's in my pool, but he's not one of my top choices. I am... begrudgingly satisfied with it, and I think it useful for solving long term in how it's shaping up. I would be pleased if he flips red, but I'm not like super gung ho that I'd bet my life on him flipping red.

[Corwinoid]

I mean, as long as it doesn't end in my untimely demise Corwin. Italian or Hispanic cuisine?

Are those my only choices? Hispanic I suppose, I like spicy.

[Corwinoid]

Is Vivax still your main scum read?

Honestly I'm not sure. With so many people reading that TvT I have to get out of that tunnel, it's not helpful if I'm wrong.

I think the game, from its current state, can take a lot of branches. He's pretty high on one of those branches.

[Corwinoid]

Goddammit Crescent

[Corwinoid]

Goddammit Crescent

Uh

What

THINK BEFORE YOU POST, EVEN IF YOU'RE TOWN

[Corwinoid]

The expectation that vig can shoot again isn't scummy.

That's not the slip I care about.

[Corwinoid]

I don't know about Smellsa, his posts are pretty hava

I looked up hava and got "help america vote act". So what in the world do you mean. My mind can't get a different word for good or bad or weird or anything.

I can't believe you even tried to make sense of it.

[Corwinoid]

I don't do rainbow reads lists I do three colour gradient from green to yellow to read readlists

Red, Orange, Yellow, Green... I mean, it's half way there. Take pride in it.

[Corwinoid]

UNVOTE:

Do we have a VC?

[Corwinoid]

gibus (2): BlueBloodedToffee, geraintm
Vivax (2): Not_Mafia, Eiralox
BlueBloodedToffee (1): gibus, Alexcellent,
Crescent (1): Vivax

NV: Crescent, Elsa Jay, Corwinoid,

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to launch.

P-edit, beat me to it.

[Corwinoid]

Ugh... I'd go for BBT in a heartbeat, but I think Vivax is the play now actually. Independently of any earlier arguments I made.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Vivax

[Corwinoid]

It's literally been Corwin's dream all GameDay to do this. Maybe I'll believe it after all. Not like we'll get a miraculous fourth PR claim in a row, right? We can't be that shitty as a town.

It's for a completely different reason now.

Play along a little bit.

[Corwinoid]

I'll go for BBT today too, if you guys really want to push that direction.

[Corwinoid]

gibus (2): BlueBloodedToffee, geraintm
Vivax (4): Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Corwinoid, Elsa Jay
BlueBloodedToffee (2): gibus, Alexcellent,
Crescent (1): Vivax

NV: Crescent

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to launch.

[Corwinoid]

@Vivax i haven't done jack squat RE: reread. here's the thing: talk.

i find toffee scummy to null to town, goldfish was green to null. toffee praised and townread a whole lot, which.... i'm kinda on the fence about. and you: I have my reasons. So my vote's gonna be towards you 4 now, that's just how it is.

UNVOTE: Vivax

No... don't... come back....

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: geraint

Last ditch effort to find a counter?

[Corwinoid]

Can I ask why Vivax is the play?

Either I've gone batshit insane or it solves multiple people. I'd guess there's better than a coin flip's probability that I'm right though.

[Corwinoid]

I reckon you gone batshit insane

Help us find out. There's no good reason to go gera here over Vivax, and good reasons not to if I'm right.

[Corwinoid]

1737 is dumb.

[Corwinoid]

Elsa, the read you missed is who the other pr is. I tried to tell you this.

[Corwinoid]

I know, but I don't want to say more. I think there's a very good probability I'm right though; your claim made it click.

[Corwinoid]

I have no idea what Corwin is saying but I don't think it's anything we should press on this late. I'm running out of time tonight though. I can't be late tomorrow.

At least people are finally posting again.

And I think you're town, but you keep doing incredibly anti-town shit. Having a hard time reconciling that right now.

[Corwinoid]

I'm not talking about paranoid, I'm talking about you actively doing things to harm town. This isn't "I think you're scum", it's "I think you are

hurting our team

."

[Corwinoid]

Jesus...

[Corwinoid]

You are the only one talking about a no vote here. There are two perfectly viable wagons for today: Vivax or BBT. Pick one instead of pushing this incredibly anti-town narrative you're building.

[Corwinoid]

I'll go for BBT, but it's the only other acceptable wagon today.

[Corwinoid]

I wouldn't trust a BBT claim regardless, honestly.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: BBT

[Corwinoid]

I can find a direct and obvious scum motive to every action he's made.

You can't read him like that, that's how he plays.

[Corwinoid]

Vivax(2) BBT(4) btw soz

You forgot to take me off Vivax when you put me on BBT. Vivax(1).

[Corwinoid]

That's not an AI role, and given the roles we've seen that are, scum JOAT would make sense.

[Corwinoid]

I was scum reading BBT for the wrong reasons, shit happens. It's unfortunate because I like playing with him too... his lack of self-preservation didn't really help though.

Today's our biggest gain in scum equity on NM, we need to make a decision on what to do with that slot now.

NM is tomorrow's policy elim if he doesn't get shot tonight, I think. I don't think it should go the full 7 days, either. Just policy him out after like, two days, so the game doesn't stagnate waiting to kill him.

Honestly though, this post super gives me vibes to how I saw George as the "compromise" yesterday since Corwin didn't seem to have the oomph required and it was obvious George, who also had scum equity, did. I can see the same thought process in your distinction of BBT and Elsa in this post.

This post alone has a shit ton of scum equity. Never telegraph what your team's actions next day are. If town wasn't so hell bent on cannibalizing itself you probably could have been lynched on this alone. This is pretty much the same as telling someone you're going to fold if they bet when playing poker.

I really need to stop compromising on launches.

[Corwinoid]

Yeah, but have you done the work to understand why beyond knowing low info players are bad for town? The conclusion is right, but it's like you're twisting or ignoring all of the actual reasons for it, and using them to handcuff the rest of us into a particular day action today. 1520 is basically "HEY, SCUM TEAM!!! You don't have to respect the possibility of that slot being a PR because I'll make sure town launches him tomorrow instead of sorting him with a NA."

Basically, yeah, today would have been our best day for it, but you fucking crippled us by telegraphing it.

[Corwinoid]

Sorting hat wants to sort him.

[Corwinoid]

I know you hate my guts

Do I now? What makes you think I wouldn't want to play with you again? "Hate" is a pretty strong word, and it feels like you're using it here to get a particular reaction.

[Corwinoid]

Oh also I'm taking the rest of the night off because Corwin once again being an insufferable prick because he hates me is making me kinda mad and I'm just not dealing with it this game anymore. I'm not letting him drag me down to his level again.

So now I'm pressing you on things you've actually done and not just disliking the way you post, your defense is "Corwin hates you, and I'm going to hide from this because he's a 'prick'?"

VOTE: Crescent Okay.

[Corwinoid]

Elsa, why'd you protect Crescent last night?

[Corwinoid]

... are you.... Genuinely just not reading the same game we are? Did you not read ANY of my posts? God. That actually makes me angry.

VOTE: Vivax

While I'm always up for a Vivax wagon this game, are we going somewhere with it today or is this a frustration vote? I have like half a dozen people in my scum pool right now, which doesn't bode well with 8 alive.

[Corwinoid]

Me?

You and Eira.

[Corwinoid]

I want to take a far more serious look at the VCA and wagon formations D1 & 2. I meant to keep up on that but there was so much... posting... D1 that I fell way behind and fell back on reading people instead of actions.

We need to make a serious decision on NM though. If he doesn't have something to give us soon we can't keep waiting on that slot. It's probably either today or not at all, or we scratch today's launch to get it back to odd. None of the three choices seems entirely palatable though.

[Corwinoid]

We get an extra day, and an extra slot sorted before ELo/MyLo, but yeah, it's NM->NoLaunch / NoLaunch->NM to gain time and force scum into reducing the pool.

[Corwinoid]

I'll be out for a few hours.

[Corwinoid]

Do you think if we get rid of Corwin's hard on for getting rid of Vivax he'll do the townie thing and help us day 4?

Excuse you. It's more like a semi- now. Thanks.

[Corwinoid]

Corwin (when he isn't bothering you I guess) had wanted Vivax dead for over a week now and hasn't changed. If we start a wagon there he says he'll follow us there.

We pray Vivax is the scum between Vivax/NM and then town has enough votes to still win day 4.

Do you remember why he went after Vivax originally?

For voting him.

Why did he go after Owen?

For voting him.

Who's the third person who voted him day 1? Me.


He's still voting solely on the basis of "this person voted for me day 1 and must die". I'm not sure there's any reasoning with that if he can't see how anti-town his behavior has consistently been.

This is simply false. I went after Owen because he tunneled from RVS. I went after Vivax originally because it felt like they were coordinating--at least Owen may have been. I'm still SR Vivax because I think Owen was virtue signaling. It has absolutely nothing to do with reverse voting people.

I simply didn't care about their votes because early D1 votes don't matter -- until they did. Hey look, when I called Owen scum preflip, guess who was right?

What the hell have you done?

[Corwinoid]

If Crescent is going to intentionally stall the game at this point she's the best launch for the day. All of the anti-town crap yesterday, the flood posting crap all game long, and then intentionally ducking when she gets called on her bullshit. I'd much rather flip someone actively sabotaging the game than passively sabotaging it.

[Corwinoid]

Vivax (4): gibus, Elsa Jay, Not_Mafia, Eiralox,
Crescent (1): Corwinoid
gibus (1): Vivax
Not_Mafia (1): geraintm,

Not voting (1): Crescent

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

[Corwinoid]

Why do I gotta play peacekeeper here? Why is literally everyone against each other. Eira is legit the only other one not being stubborn. Why. I don't wanna be the mom of the group.

I regret my first post mentioning being town leader. This sucks.

Except, it's only personal from one person, to deflect off the scummy stuff she's actually doing.

[Corwinoid]

Does anybody actually want a fast day today?

[Corwinoid]

Intent. But I'm going to give at least two others a chance to slow it down.

Vivax, any last words?

[Corwinoid]

Elsa, will you humor me and unvote for a few hours? I'm not ready for the day to end and I'm worried someone else might hammer too quickly. I'm still okay with Vivax, I just want a little more time today.

[Corwinoid]

Like I said I can vote gibus. I just don't think they play like mafia, but you refuse to budge.

VOTE: gibus

I was doing some VCA and just caught up to today where you unvoted, was gonna ask if you meant to have this vote here still. (FWIW, I didn't read the accidental self vote as a vote, I think it's pretty clear what you meant)

[Corwinoid]

I'm really not sure of the Vivax wagon today. Long post incoming, but I might have to break it into multiple posts because I'm going to an open house in a few minutes

[Corwinoid]

Spoiler: Full vote history

Post Voting Voted

Day 1

5 Not_Mafia Not_Mafia
10 Alexcellent Not_Mafia
21 GeorgeBailey GoldfishFromTheMoon
27 UNOwen Corwinoid
35 gibus Crescent
67 clidd geraintm
83 Alexellent Elsa Jay
85 GeorgeBailey Alexcellent
87 Elsa Jay Alexcellent
97 gibus Elsa Jay
108 Eiralox Elsa Jay
116 geraintm clidd
119 Vivax Corwinoid
139 Eiralox <Nobody>
141 Elsa Jay UNOwen
150 Corwinoid geraintm
191 Elsa Jay gibus
211 Eiralox Crescent
260 GoldfishFromTheMoon Not_Mafia
268 Alexcellent Not_Mafia
269 Corwinoid Not_Mafia
295 Vivax GeorgeBailey
301 Corwinoid <Nobody>
339 Crescent gibus
340 Eiralox gibus
356 Crescent <Nobody>
393 Corwinoid UNOwen
400 GeorgeBailey Geraintm
412 Not_Mafia GeorgeBailey
418 Eiralox <Nobody>
424 Vivax Corwinoid
431 Eiralox GeorgeBailey
440 Alexcellent <Nobody>
493 geraintm Crescent
544 clidd UNOwen
545 Elsa Jay UNOwen
595 Corwinoid Vivax
612 Crescent Corwinoid
644 gibus Corwinoid
650 GoldfishFromTheMoon <Nobody>
709 Alexcellent GeorgeBailey
727 GeorgeBailey UNOwen
780 Crescent GeorgeBailey
781 gibus GeorgeBailey
785 Vivax GeorgeBailey
846 UNOwen GeorgeBailey

Day 2

930 Eiralox gibus
931 Alexcellent GoldfishFromTheMoon
978 Corwinoid Vivax
994 Eiralox Vivax
995 Not_Mafia Vivax
999 Elsa Jay Corwinoid
1067 Vivax Not_Mafia
1094 geraintm Vivax
1095 Vivax geraintm
1105 gibus geraintm
1107 Vivax Crescent
1116 Corwinoid Crescent
1167 GoldfishFromTheMoon Crescent
1205 GoldfishFromTheMoon Eiralox
1215 GoldfishFromTheMoon gibus
1230 Corwinoid Vivax
1314 GoldfishFromTheMoon gibus (repeat vote)
1351 gibus GoldfishFromTheMoon
1354 Elsa Jay gibus
1398 Eiralox <Nobody>
1468 Corwinoid gibus
1484 Alexcellent Not_Mafia
1498 Alexcellent Elsa Jay
1519 Eiralox Vivax
1526 Crescent Elsa Jay
1587 gibus Elsa Jay
1590 geraintm gibus
1619 Alexcellent <Nobody>
1639 Alexcellent Elsa Jay
1640 gibus GoldfishFromTheMoon
1651 Alexcellent <Nobody>
1657 Crescent <Nobody>
1664 Alexcellent GoldfishFromTheMoon
1675 Elsa Jay <Nobody>
1683 Corwinoid <Nobody>
1689 Corwinoid Vivax
1695 Elsa Jay Vivax
1697 Eiralox <Nobody>
1702 GoldfishFromTheMoon geraintm
1787 Crescent GoldfishFromTheMoon
1788 Corwinoid GoldfishFromTheMoon
1792 Elsa Jay <Nobody>
1795 Elsa Jay GoldfishFromTheMoon
1796 gibus <Nobody>
1829 geraintm GoldfishFromTheMoon
1849 gibus GoldfishFromTheMoon

Day 3

1856 gibus Vivax
1879 Eiralox geraintm
1880 Vivax geraintm
1915 Eiralox Vivax
1949 Corwinoid Crescent
1950 Eiralox gibus
1964 geraintm Not_Mafia
1979 Elsa Jay Vivax
1986 Vivax <Nobody>
2005 Vivax gibus
2043 Not_Mafia Vivax
**I did not count Vivax self vote because it was clear that was not the intent**
2047 Vivax <Nobody>
2054 Eiralox Vivax
2144 Not_Mafia <Nobody> By Request
2126 Vivax gibus

Spoiler: Per player vote chains

clidd:

Day 1: geraintm -> UNOwen
Day 2: Dead
Day 3: Dead

Not_Mafia: Day 1: Not_Mafia -> George Baily
Day 2: Vivax
Day 3: Vivax -> Nobody

geraintm:
Day 1: clidd -> Crescent
Day 2: Vivax -> gibus -> GoldfishFromTheMoon
Day 3: Not_Mafia

GeorgeBailey:

Day 1: GoldfishFromTheMoon -> Alexcellent -> Geraintm -> UNOwen
Day 2: Dead
Day 3: Dedad

UNOwen:

Day 1: Corwinoid -> GeorgeBailey
Day 2: Dead
Day 3: Dead

GoldfishFromTheMoon

Day 1: Not_Mafia -> Nobody
Day 2: Crescent -> Eiralox -> gibus -> gibus (repeated vote) -> geraintm
Day 3: Dead

gibus:
Day 1: Crescent -> Elsa Jay -> Corwinoid -> GeorgeBailey
Day 2: geraintm -> GoldfishFromTheMoon --> Elsa Jay -> GoldfishFromTheMoon -> Nobody -> GoldfishFromTheMoon
Day 3: Vivax -> Not_Mafia

Vivax:
Day 1: Corwinoid -> GeorgeBailey -> Corwinoid
Day 2: Not_Mafia -> geraintm -> Crescent
Day 3: geraintm -> Nobody -> gibus -> Nobody > gibus ->

Elsa Jay:
Day 1: Alexcellent -> UNOwen -> gibus -> UNOwen
Day 2: Corwinoid -> gibus -> Nobody -> Vivax -> Nobody -> GoldfishFromTheMoon
Day 3: Vivax

Alexcellent

Day 1: Not_Mafia -> Elsa Jay -> Not_Mafia -> Nobody -> GeorgeBailey
Day 2: GoldfishFromTheMoon -> Not_Mafia -> Elsa Jay -> Nobody -> Elsa Jay -> Nobody -> GoldfishFromTheMoon
Day 3: Dead

Eiralox:
Day 1: Elsa Jay -> Nobody -> Crescent -> gibus -> Nobody -> GeorgeBailey
Day 2: gibus -> Vivax -> Nobody -> Vivax -> Nobody
Day 3: geraintm -> Vivax -> gibus -> Vivax

Crescent:
Day 1: gibus -> Nobody -> Corwinoid -> GeorgeBailey
Day 2: Elsa Jay -> Nobody -> GoldfishFrom TheMoon
Day 3: Not voting

Corwinoid:

Day 1: geraintm -> Not_Mafia -> Nobody -> UNOwen -> Vivax
Day 2: Vivax -> Crescent -> Vivax -> gibus -> Nobody -> Vivax -> GoldfishFromTheMoon
Day 3: Crescent

Spoiler: Wagon formations, in order of initial appearance

Day 1

Not_Mafia:
Not_Mafia (5)
Not_Mafia, Alexcellent (10)
Not_Mafia (83)
Not_Mafia, Goldfish (260)
Not_Mafia, Goldfish, Alexcellent (268)
Not_Mafia, Goldfish, Alexcellent, Corwinoid (269)
Not_Mafia, Goldfish, Alexcellent (301)
Goldfish, Alexcellent (412)
Goldfish (440)
<Empty> (650)

Goldfish:
GeorgeBailey (21)

Corwinoid:
UNOwen (27)
UNOwen, Vivax (119)
UNOwen, Vivax (424)
UNOwen, Vivax, Crescent (612)
UNOwen, Vivax, Crescent, gibus (644)
UNOwen, Vivax, gibus (780)
UNOwen, Vivax (781)
UNOwen (785)
<Empty> (846)

Crescent:
gibus (35)
<Empty> (97)
Eiralox (211)
<Empty> (340)
geraintm (493)

geraintm:
clidd (67)
clidd, Corwinoid (150)
clidd (269)
clidd, GeorgeBailey (400)
GeorgeBailey (544)
<Empty> (727)

Elsa Jay:
Alexcellent (83)
Alexcellent, gibus (97)
Alexcellent, gibus, Eiralox (108)
Alexcellent, gibus (139)
gibus (268)
<Empty> (644)

Alexcellent:
GeorgeBailey (85)
GeorgeBailey, Elsa Jay (87)

clidd:
geraintm (116)
<Empty> (493)

UNOwen:
Elsa Jay (141)
<Empty> (191)
Corwinoid (393)
Corwinoid, clidd (544)
Corwinoid, clidd, Elsa Jay (545)
clidd, Elsa Jay (595)
clidd, Elsa Jay, GeorgeBailey (727)

gibus:
Elsa Jay (191)
Elsa Jay, Crescent (339)
Elsa Jay, Crescent, Eiralox (340)
Elsa Jay, Eiralox (356)
Elsa Jay (340)
<Empty> (545)

GeorgeBailey:
Vivax (295)
Vivax, Not_Mafia (412)
Not_Mafia (424)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox (431)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Alexcellent (709)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Alexcellent, Crescent (780)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Alexcellent, Crescent, gibus (781)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Alexcellent, Crescent, gibus, Vivax (785)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Alexcellent, Crescent, gibus, Vivax, UNOwen (846)

Vivax:
Corwinoid (595)

Day 2:

gibus:
Eiralox (930)
<Empty> (994)
Goldfish (1215)
Goldfish (1314)
Goldfish, Elsa Jay (1354)
Goldfish, Elsa Jay, Corwinoid (1468)
Goldfish, Elsa Jay, Corwinoid, geraintm (1590)
Goldfish, Corwinoid, geraintm (1675)
Goldfish, geraintm (1683)
geraintm (1702)
<Empty> (1829)

Goldfish:
Alexcellent (931)
Alexcellent, gibus (1351)
gibus (1484)
<Empty> (1587)
gibus (1640)
gibus, Alexcellent (1664)
gibus, Alexcellent, Crescent (1787)
gibus, Alexcellent, Crescent, Corwinoid (1788)
gibus, Alexcellent, Crescent, Corwinoid, Elsa Jay (1795)
Alexcellent, Crescent, Corwinoid, Elsa Jay (1796)
Alexcellent, Crescent, Corwinoid, Elsa Jay, geraintm (1829)
Alexcellent, Crescent, Corwinoid, Elsa Jay, geraintm, gibus (1849)

Vivax:
Corwinoid (978)
Corwinoid, Eiralox (994)
Corwinoid, Eiralox, Not_Mafia (995)
Corwinoid, Eiralox, Not_Mafia, geraintm (1094)
Eiralox, Not_Mafia, geraintm (1116)
Eiralox, Not_Mafia, geraintm, Corwinoid (1230)
Not_Mafia, geraintm, Corwinoid (1398)
Not_Mafia, geraintm (1468)
Not_Mafia, geraintm, Eiralox (1519)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox (1590)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Corwinoid (1689)
Not_Mafia, Eiralox, Corwinoid, Elsa Jay (1695)
Not_Mafia, Corwinoid, Elsa Jay (1697)
Not_Mafia, Elsa Jay (1788)
Not_Mafia (1792)

Corwinoid:
Elsa Jay (999)
<Empty> (1354)

Not_Mafia:
Vivax (1067)
<Empty> (1095)
Alexcellent (1484)
<Empty> (1498)

geraintm:
Vivax (1095)
Vivax, gibus (1105)
gibus (1107)
<Empty> (1351)
Goldfish (1702)

Crescent:
Vivax (1107)
Vivax, Corwinoid (1116)
Vivax, Corwinoid, Goldfish (1167)
Vivax, Corwinoid (1205)
Vivax (1230)

Eiralox:
Goldfish (1205)
<Empty> (1215)

Elsa Jay:
Alexcellent (1498)
Alexcellent, Crescent (1526)
Alexcellent, Crescent, gibus (1587)
Crescent, gibus (1619)
Crescent, gibus, Alexcellent (1639)
Crescent, Alexcellent (1640)
Crescent (1651)
<Empty> (1657)

Day 3:

Vivax:
gibus (1856)
gibus, Eiralox (1915)
gibus (1950)
gibus, Elsa Jay (1979)
gibus, Elsa Jay, Not_Mafia (2043)
gibus, Elsa Jay, Not_Mafia, Eiralox (2054)
gibus, Elsa Jay, Eiralox (2144)
gibus, Eiralox (2148)

geraintm:
Eiralox (1879)
Eiralox, Vivax (1880)
Vivax (1915)
<Empty> (1986)

Crescent:
Corwinoid (1949)

gibus:
Eiralox (1950)
Eiralox, Vivax (2005)
Eiralox (2047)
<Empty> (2054)
Vivax (2126)
<Empty> (2149)

Not_Mafia:
geraintm (1964)
geraintm, Elsa Jay (2148)
geraintm, Elsa Jay, Vivax (2149)

Things that caught my attention scanning through quickly (I need to do a more thorough re-read)

• * Crescent floated rusty-scum!Corwin today, again, after initially floating it 475. Feels weird to bring that up again
  * gera's very late joining the voting, and something about it feels off
  * Eiralox's voting feels weird to me, along with the posts joining it. It feels a lot like someone looking for a safe place to put their votes throughout
  * BBT said something that caught my attention, despite how he played here he's a pretty good player and I have some faith in him

[Corwinoid]

Fish do you think it was weird that the shift from Corwin and Owen to George felt rushed? How do you feel about the events that happened?

I think the mod will lock thread in the morning when the actual deadline hits so be quick with a response. I want your opinion before the night phase happens.

For the wagon analysis... It feels better to look at where the people were voting before they all jumped onto George. Obviously the hammerer turned out guilty, but I think at least one opportunist jumped on there as scum. One who probably was voting Owen/Corwin but jumped ship.

All of the last 4 votes on that wagon came directly off of me, very quickly.

Day 2, Crescent and gibus were stacked on you until they decided to jump for Fish. Gibus coming off the driver seat to hammer seems really weird to me also

[Corwinoid]

I think it's time to sort the sorting hat.

VOTE: gibus

[Corwinoid]

@N_M: any weighty thoughts on Vivax?

[Corwinoid]

Okay, I'll concede that point given NM's in the game.

[Corwinoid]

Also, for convenience:

Vivax (3): gibus, Not_Mafia, Eiralox
Not_Mafia (3): geraintm, Elsa Jay, Vivax
gibus (1): Corwinoid
geraintm (1): gibus

Not voting (1): Crescent

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

[Corwinoid]

I realized siding with the person I assume is a fake Doctor on Vivax is probably a stupid idea so I have decided to switch to NotMaf.

Why not vote the person you think is a fake claim?

[Corwinoid]

I think it's time to sort the sorting hat.

VOTE: gibus

I don't follow this vote, all the notes you made at the end of yout very, very long post didn't mention them

If I relent on Vivax being scum, then the remainder of the pool is gibus, Crescent, UNOwen. gibus is the suspected fake claim, and I'd certainly prefer to lynch scum than lynch town just to clear a slot and get closer to endgame.

[Corwinoid]

I'm not even sure I follow the logic of NM being a better launch than gibus here, but I'm pretty tired at this point also.

[Corwinoid]

That doesn't really make sense from a town perspective though, does it Elsa? Why would we want competing mislaunches in MyLo? Remind me why town wouldn't want a no-kill today to get the odd/even advantage back, now that we know there's no vig left to uneven it?

[Corwinoid]

@gibus: Did you do anything to hint at who your protection was going to be before the night?

[Corwinoid]

UNVOTE:

[Corwinoid]

OK

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Your last 4 votes have been 4 different people

You've voted 6 times the entire game, on 6 different people. In what way is this a relevant point?

You might as well point out that despite her 600 posts, Crescent has 5 votes all game and none today.

[Corwinoid]

That's an unfair comparison. Gibus has been vote hopping to each possible wagon tho. Completely different.

Don't dodge my questions and try to hide them by post spamming to a new page with Crescent.

Why in the world would someone town want to carry an implied counter claim into MyLo?
Why would town want a quick day and a quick night tonight?
Why did you pick Crescent to protect?

Why did you ask gibus who he protected, and then claim to protect the same person? That seems incredibly convenient.
Did you crumb your protection?

I think we deserve some answers here Elsa.

[Corwinoid]

VOTE: Elsa jay

I think we need to resolve this conflict before we get into a situation where resolving it loses the game. And I think it needs to be resolved with the person who doesn't want it resolved.

[Corwinoid]

And egging townies to kill other townies is very much scummy.

And yet you're pushing people to vote someone that's not, from what you say, your most likely scum because it's better for town to launch someone maybe town and carry this over into MyLo?

[Corwinoid]

Why did you ask gibus who he protected, and then claim to protect the same person? That seems incredibly convenient.

-Corwin

You can literally see the first post on day 3 after the nakes vote from Gibus I was the one who said I protected Crescent. He was the one who said "same".

I'm the one who's at the very least tried to lead us today. He still never responded to my argument for him. In what world am I the vote here?

Okay, you're right, you claimed Cresc first and I misremembered that, but the rest of the questions stand. Why, and did you crumb it? Why does it make more sense to leave the indecision between you and gibus to a later date? Why should we prefer to vote someone who is possibly town against the person you suggest is likely not?

[Corwinoid]

Calling yourself a 'leader' of this clusterfuck isn't exactly AI, since scum would want to be leading the lemmings off a cliff also.

[Corwinoid]

Yeah, fuck it, town wants to lose this game this badly then let's get it over.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Corwinoid]

UNVOTE:

Glad you finally showed up to the game. Not wanting to go into MyLo tomorrow with conflicting claims is exactly the logic that lead me to voting Elsa originally, and got absolutely zero traction.

[Corwinoid]

Hey NM.
My only possible partners if I'm mafia are geraintm and Crescent. They didn't hammer me at L-1.

Might want to point that out.

Why is that?

Because you look like a deer in the headlights

I'm a cow

A surprisingly salient defense.

[Corwinoid]

Whatever we're playing this is far beyond mafia

Did you ever hear the tragedy of Not_Mafia The Wise? I thought not.

It’s not a story the Town would tell you. It’s a Scum legend. Not_Mafia was a Godfather of the Scum, so powerful and so wise he could use the source code to influence the bbcode to create votes…

He had such a knowledge of the source that he could even keep the ones he cared about from launching. The source of the bbcode is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did.

Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself.

[Corwinoid]

The interesting part about this approach is by today's VCA, there are very few possible scumteams that don't have Gibus or Elsa on them, and Eira/NM actually is one of them.

Mind explaining that for those of us with single digit IQs?

[Corwinoid]

Honestly, I think Vivax has turned off his brain and isn't acting rationally.

[Corwinoid]

@Vivax, if you're town and you care about winning this game, we need you all here. I know you got a ton of pressure day 2 and early today, but I don't have you as an SR right now and I need you to get your shit together and show up for us. Take a little bit of time, clear your head, and come back into it, please.

[Corwinoid]

Not_Mafia (2): geraintm, Elsa Jay
Vivax (1): Eiralox
Elsa Jay (1): gibus
Eiralox (1): Vivax

Not voting (3): Crescent, Not_Mafia, Corwinoid

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

Deadline: 2 days, 17 hours, 48 minutes

[Corwinoid]

I've followed the logic being put forward, and I am sure some of it is correct, but it can't all be. I have lost all interest in this game, my postings today are becoming harder and harder for me to muster up and energy to make. I just want this over.
I admit I have lost the will to spend mental effort to try and work it iut. I thought my vote at the start of the day made sense, and I am sure someone at the time said we should rush through today and we haven't and scum is laughing because apathy is going to lose it for us

Work with me then, please. Gibus is right, we need to focus on resolving the conflicting PR claims today. I brought this up earlier, and literally nobody cared, but this is what we need to be working on.

Right now I find gibus a lot more trustworthy than Elsa on this, since she tried to dodge it and keep these competing claims going into MyLo tomorrow. And a few other things.

@Everyone else: Please, we need to rally around the things that matter instead of trying to go for a feel-good launch because everyone has given up. Eira, Vivax, I need you guys working with me instead self destructing on nothing.

VOTE: Elsa

[Corwinoid]

Yes.

Right now the most logical thing to do is flip one of you and flip the other one tomorrow if you come up green. It's the most immediately solving action we have as town, and everyone is dancing around it because you've been floating Vivax and NM. Almost everyone read me and Vivax as TvT, I have history with BBT and he read Vivax as town -- which is really the most reliable read I have in the game right now. NM hasn't been incredibly useful this game, but it's an easy launch to get going so the conflicting PR claims can get carried over into a game losing situation for Town.

Your motivations today don't make sense from town, Elsa, and you've burnt through my trust. We need to resolve this, and between the two of you I'm putting my faith in the person who wants to hit the issue head on instead of burying it.

[Corwinoid]

gibus has a point that the enabled role doesn't have to exist, but how in the hell is this balanced if that's the case? And I think we're in serious trouble of getting into outguess-the-mod territory here.

@gibus, do you think Elsa's town?

[Corwinoid]

Oh I was only looking at page 2 of your ISO earlier and it's at the bottom of page 1. I didn't realize you even had day 3 posts there yay I got lazy.

...A town PR that dies upon use that enables a scum PR that can stop it from killing itself? I never even considered the possibility of a town role that could enable a scum role. Seems weird.

And Gibus is claiming he wasn't RBed with his check late night, but that kinda doesn't make sense, but..

If he's town, him protecting me would've been easily predictable and scum could've just shot around him without blocking him. This would imply scum essentially electing not to RB at all, which is possible.

Huh, something to think about again.

Put aside your hate for a moment...

The opposing team enabling a role is used to offset the winning side's advantage from landsliding, especially town enabling scum. I don't actually know how *common* that is, but that's it's purpose.

The question of him protecting you and it's predictability is exactly why I asked him if he crumbed it at all during the day. Unfortunately that question got flooded off...