Mini Normal 2275: Roguelikes - Day 3: Endgame!

[FancyPants]

VOTE: Eiralox

[FancyPants]

For reference can we get some general info from everyone like:
- Timezone
- General Experience
- Prefer playing scum or town, and why

My answers:
+2 - I'm generally very active during the "day" which for me runs from about 2 hours ago as of this post and goes for about 10-12 hours.
I'm fairly experience, and have played 10+ games on this site and play mafia IRL quite often, I haven't played in a while so I might miss a few meta terms.
Prefer playing town, in general the "figuring things out" aspect of the game appeals a lot more than the "being good at deception" part.

[FancyPants]

UNVOTE: Eiralox

VOTE: kennyk

[FancyPants]

@kennyk, any early suspicions or thoughts?

[FancyPants]

@kennyk, any early suspicions or thoughts?

what do you think of confidently incorrect?

Selfvoting is obviously anti-town at best and scummy at worst, however based on his username and lack of games on this site I'd say they are just doing a

bit

. A

hilarious

bit that definitely won't get old, is very game relevant and has endless mileage... NAI

I'm voting kenny because of 21, and I'd still like to hear from him. I had similar thoughts about Eira's entrance being too whimsical too be scummy, not to mention they just ignored my questions which I don't think is scum behaviour.

[FancyPants]

@BlueBloodedToffee

If it's too early ignore this. Otherwise care to share your reasoning?

[FancyPants]

Sure.

He self-voted (appears care free)

Two people hop on his self vote and create a wagon.

He ignores it. If it wasn't some sort of basic reaction test, what exactly was the point of it? Except to appear 'care-free and townie'

Hmm OK,

[FancyPants]

I had already found fancy pants lightly scummy but I wanted to do my bit

Talk about it

He's asking you to substiant your opinion about me.

[FancyPants]

I absolutely want to here about his reasoning for me being scum but before that I had no scum vibes.

[FancyPants]

Nah - here's my issue, he made his username - "I'll be confidently wrong, so if I vote myself it will be as if I'm innocent, GET IT CONFIDENTLY WRONG, huehuehue"

The thing is he made his username before he got his role. It doesn't exonerate him, but it does mean this was his meme plan from the start. That's why I said it's NAI. He could be scum but his behaviour was basically on auto pilot, his username meant he was going to be contrarian from the start. Am I wrong? (I'm off to bed for tonight see you all in 8 hours). CW is NAI - that's my read.

[FancyPants]

This CSF wagon is real weird. The only person who's even attempted to explain their reasoning is Irrelephant. I understand pushing someone for pressure but they are VLA this weekened so it seems like a good way to waste a couple days.
Will the other people on the wagon explain their reasoning?

@CW, will you explain why you thought I was scummy in the first place?

[FancyPants]

I know I shouldn't have confidence in this, but Malcolm feels super scummy. Does anyone disagree?

We definitely need more from him.
@Malcom, care to weigh in? Who's scum, what do you think of the wagons thus far etc?

[FancyPants]

As opposed to the randomly vote without explaining things gambit.

@Kenny, still looking for input.
@Loftwing, same from you please.

[FancyPants]

Very happy where my Kenny vote is parked.

[FancyPants]

Just to add too this all his posts reek of appeasement and trying not to offend anyone. His first post had a bit of this and his latest is worse.

[FancyPants]

Just to add too this all his posts reek of appeasement and trying not to offend anyone. His first post had a bit of this and his latest is worse.

Yes, I do try not to offend anyone. If that's your tactic to get information out of people this early in the game, that's fine for you. But that's not how I play.

If you want to see me hanging, because I don't have an elaborated read about everyone, so be it. I posted what I think about the players that did something relevant in my eyes. It is by far not enough to get a read on them. But I am generally not the kind of person who gets to reads fast.

I can definitely not see how my very first post in this thread should reek of appeasement. To me this reeks of someone desperately trying to build a case on someone.

But as you do want me to step on someones toes so much, I will do you the favour:
VOTE: FancyPants

You don't have to offend people, you just have to have an opinion.

In this post 21, you point out that Eiralox's behavior is erratic, I know this was done in a jokey way but you don't specify if that erratic behaviour is scummy or townie, you just bring it up with a smiley face. You're pointing to a behaviour but don't commit as to what it could mean.

Then in this post 148 you bring up a few things, I'll quote you so you aren't taken out of context:

So here are my thoughts about the game so far.

There is Eiralox who voted and changed votes twice very early in the game.

I made a (in my eyes) fun comment about this. I know it is RVS, so those vote changes are very likely a thing of trying to beating around the bush in hope of someone reacting to being voted.

FancyPants tries to push me for this comment. This feels wierd. But maybe it is because they are torn pants (thanks Irrelephant for that pun).

The most fascinating thing about Irrelephant is, that Shoshin is probably town. Not that I think Shoshin is scum, but I don't see how he should have gained the towncred.

ConfidentlyWrongs selfvote in the early RVS is NAI for me. As mentioned by someone else earlier (too lazy to look it up again) this seems to be a humoristic approach (haha).

BlueBloodedToffee pushing CW for the selfvote and then, when the waggon didn't get on track too well, hopping on the CSF waggon seems fishy.

I don't see why CSF deserves the waggon that's now going on.

Everyone else is just a blank card for me right now.

From my perspective here's what you brought up in this post:
- That Eira voted a few times again (I don't understand your explanation for it).
- That my push on you is weird (you don't explain why it's weird, you do however only soft commit to the comment)
- You think Irrelephant's town read of shosin is fascinating (you don't say why or whether this is alignment indicative of anything).
- You think CW's self vote is NAI, you aren't sure who brought this up (For reference - I did, the person you're voting for).
- You throw some sus on to BBT for switching wagons from CW to CSF (This whole idea was Cat Scratch Fever's originally, importantly you don't actually vote BBT here).

So essentially you're simply stating things that have happened in game, or just recycling ideas other people have come up with without taking any strong stances.

- Scum are more afraid to offend people or take strong stances.
- Scum struggle to manufacture opinions or reads because they know they are BS.

Hence you are scum.

Since you're voting me, can you try and explain why you think I'm scum? Also why didn't you vote BBT since you thought his wagon switch was "fishy"? Can you explain why my push on you was "weird" in your eyes?

[FancyPants]

@loftwing, Can you point out specifically what you like about Kenny's recent posts?

[FancyPants]

@loftwing, Can you point out specifically what you like about Kenny's recent posts?

I feel like it was a resolution to my misgivings about them, which was mainly "There's a lot of nothing here"

Which implies his recent posts aren't 'nothing' anymore, can you take a look at the posts and tell me wha you think makes them 'something'.
In other words - you had an opinion, that opinion has now changed - I'm asking you to please explain why it's changed.

[FancyPants]

@Loftwing, I'm having trouble following you.

Is this a fair characterization of your behaviour:
- You voted Kenny because he "didn't say anything of substance despite saying many things." 168
- You unvote once Kenny admit's that he wasn't saying anything of substance and was just making random comments about the game (207), this was enough to put your mind at ease and unvote him.

If I am incorrectly interpreting your posts, please treat me like I'm stupid and explain your thought process clearly.

@Kennyk, I'd still like you to follow up on post 190 please.

[FancyPants]

@Loftwing, also is it fair to say that you still "don't particularly have any reads." as of 161.

[FancyPants]

161
Correct link, I messed up something with the link above.

[FancyPants]

I said your first post had a bit of appeasement referring to 21, and that your latest was the worst referring to 148, if my exact timeline was wrong I'm sorry for that.

@KennyK, so why am I scum then? (that's where your vote is)

[FancyPants]

OK I see you say I made a "case" out of thin air.

There have been multiple occasions this game where people have wagoned others for little to no reason (The cat scratch wagon, the malcom wagon for example) why was my push on you more scummy than those pushes?

[FancyPants]

Random question to some of the more experienced members in the game, I've never played in a game with Mafia day talk, how does this usually affect games if at all?
My current worry is that newb scum could be "coached" out of bad spots, is that common, or am I paranoid?

[FancyPants]

Also for reference I'm liking scum in:
{Loftwing/Kenny/Lowell/Malakittens}

Increasing the net would add {BBT, and maybe Eira}

[FancyPants]

My Quarrel was that they were trying to decieve us into believing that they had something to say regarding their reads, when it was apparent they didn't. While I still may have my suspicions of Kenny, I feel like they are at a similar baseline that everyone else is at. They don't appear to have a bias or an agenda that they are attempting to push.

I mean as townies we should all have an agenda, to find scum.

For the record when I have time I'm going to go through some of your games to see if this absolute pussyfooting behaviour is normal for town Loftwing.

[FancyPants]

@Lowell, are your fred and shosh leans based on meta?

[FancyPants]

A lot of people have read Shosh one way or the other this game and he really hasn't said much at all, I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

[FancyPants]

OK.

Still down to lynch Kenny, I could probably be convinced to switch to Loft, we have a week left but my two main suspects basically refuse to make any reads so I'm basically down to just hang them now. I might do a reread and some meta diving when I'm more motivated.

[FancyPants]

OK.

Still down to lynch Kenny, I could probably be convinced to switch to Loft, we have a week left but my two main suspects basically refuse to make any reads so I'm basically down to just hang them now. I might do a reread and some meta diving when I'm more motivated.

Lynch is against site rules to use to refer to the elimination

Apologies I also haven't played in about 4 years I guess I understand why it's a loaded term, I'll try to remember.

[FancyPants]

Kenny's first post was bad, but the rest of his interactions with FancyPants feels TvT. In particular,

I feel like pushing FancyPants, who I think several people have said are town, feels like going against the grain in a way that I don't think new scum would do.

I actually agree with this voting me was the most town thing Kenny has done, however I continually pushed him on why I was scum and he never came up with a satisfactory answer.

Almost everyone in this game has made one post that is townie, this is Kenny being accidentally town. Hang him.

@CW, I know you don't like explaining usually but I'm trying to figure the game, would you do me a favour and explain why you think Loft is town?

[FancyPants]

[spoiler=Post 42(Would link it even in the spoiler if it doesn't cause the spoiler to not work)
Spoiler Postscript: BBCode also doesn't allow spoiler in a spoiler, so you may have to remove this spoiler to quote this post without it looking like a mess]

@kennyk, any early suspicions or thoughts?

what do you think of confidently incorrect?

[/spoiler]
Selfvoting is obviously anti-town at best and scummy at worst, however based on his username and lack of games on this site I'd say they are just doing a

bit

. A

hilarious

bit that definitely won't get old, is very game relevant and has endless mileage... NAI

I'm voting kenny because of 21, and I'd still like to hear from him. I had similar thoughts about Eira's entrance being too whimsical too be scummy, not to mention they just ignored my questions which I don't think is scum behaviour.

Dear FancyPants, in post 65, you made the following statement:
"A hilarious bit that definitely won't get old, is very game relevant and has endless mileage."

I would like some clarification regarding the intended meaning of this sentence.

I was being sarcastic. I thought it was pointless way to draw attention to themselves and not relevant to the game, but in retrospect he may have been doing it to start some sort of discussion so I was probably a little too harsh, and maybe just didn't "get it" at the time.

That said it's very possible I'm being too charitable, as BBT pointing out in 71 and 86 he never actually followed up on anyone who voted him, so it may have just been pointless self-indulgence after all.

[FancyPants]

Malakittens ISO comes across as vaguely town to me.

[FancyPants]

Meta research

(I only used games that were finished)
I'm only skimming threads and ISO's so this is by no means comprehensive.

Kenny

Town Games

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=87906

Town win this game but Kenny doesn't vote much, he seems to be at his best in a mass roleclaim scenario when he can work out the odds.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=87906&start=150

Scum win here, Kenny again doesn't vote that much and tends to be prone to indecision, he is endgammed when the town can't align.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=87429

This game is long, Kenny gets elimmed, again he seems hesitant to vote much, he always seems to perk up a bit when there are people dead and roles revealed, seems like he likes to wait for serious evidence before voting.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=88158

More of the same town lose Kenny typically only votes if there is role evidence or if he's the hammering vote. On one occasion he does vote for someone who sussed him.

Scum Games

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89164

Kenny doesn't vote a single person, and replaces out, scum do win this game eventually, seems like Kenny had some personal stuff going on so it's hard to get much from this.

tl:dr;

It seems like it's pretty typical for Kenny to not vote or take strong stances as town and scum, however it's difficult to get a reference because his only scum game he barely posts and replaces out and his claimed reason was life issues.
I'm still a bit suspicious of him but I can only conclude based on the admittedly shakey evidence of a quick meta scan that I think we can do better than Kenny on day 1, it

appears

his attitude this game matches his town game.

I'm going to UNVOTE: KennyK for now and do quick scan on Loftwing, but I'm already leaning towards him before I do it (full disclosure).

Meta research

Loftwing

Town Games

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88188

Loftwing does seem more active this game, notably they post a readlist on post 143, whereas in this game at 161 he claims no reads.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88188

This game is too confusing with lots of confusing role stuff. Loftwing does take a slightly more aggresive tone which he hasn't done this game.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=88129

They barely participate in this game and get voted out day 1. Hard to take anything out of it, claims to have been bored.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=87720

He replaces out of this one but his general tone is more game-solvey than our current game.

tl:dr;

No scum games and not much to go on from these but I do think Loft-town tries harder in general than he has this game.

I vaguely regret doing this meta dive, I don't think reading so many posts has really helped me clarify my thoughts but I like kenny slightly more and Loft slightly less, I'm voting Loft for these reasons:

- This game he voted Kenny, and then quickly backed off for very little reason (this is worse for him if Kenny is actually town).
- Hasn't made any attempt to scumhunt, only voting the two biggest lurkers.
- Process of elimination from town reads.
- Finally on meta he seems far more passive than his usual town games.

VOTE: Loftwing

I apologies for the post length.

@Lowell, can you clarify why Shosh and Fred are scum leans for you?

[FancyPants]

I realise I probably shouldn't have bolded things, I vaguely recall it being bad/against the rules because it confuses votes. Sorry Kitty.

[FancyPants]

tbh I kinda feel like at least one of the people townreading kenny are scum with tmi, and it's almost certainly not fancypants

I like this if Kenny is actually town.

[FancyPants]

This is the part where I ask you why Loftwing is town - you ignore me and I don't change my mind.

[FancyPants]

@CW, This is the part where I ask you why Loftwing is town - you ignore me and I don't change my mind.

[FancyPants]

You should vote someone Malcom.

[FancyPants]

Unofficial Vote Count

Loftwing (3): FancyPants, Irrelephant11, Lowell
Lowell (2): Cat Scratch Fever, Confidently Wrong
Malakittens (2): Fredrick A Campbell, Loftwing
kennyk (1): BlueBloodedToffee
MalcolmTucker (1): Shoshin
BlueBloodedTofee (1): Malakittens
FancyPants (1): kennyk


Not Voting (2): MalcolmTucker, Eiralox
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

[FancyPants]

7 to elim someone you're good.

[FancyPants]

Alright, where are we at in this game?

Slowly reading and catching up. Have we got a recent VC at all?

I'm fairly sure this is right (our mod is VLA for now)

Unofficial Vote Count

Loftwing (2): FancyPants, Lowell
Malakittens (2): Fredrick A Campbell, Loftwing
Confidently Wrong (2): Eiralox, Irrelephant11
Lowell (1): Cat Scratch Fever
kennyk (1): BlueBloodedToffee
MalcolmTucker (1): Shoshin
BlueBloodedTofee (1): Malakittens
FancyPants (1): kennyk
Eiralox (1) : Confidently Wrong


Not Voting (2): MalcolmTucker
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

I'm a bit busy tonight so can't comment on the recent content other than I like the activity will comment tomorrow.

Also @DrKoba, why are you here? Have you replaced somebody?

[FancyPants]

Loftwing (2): FancyPants, Lowell
Malakittens (2): Fredrick A Campbell, Loftwing
Eiralox (2) : Confidently Wrong, , Irrelephant11
Confidently Wrong (1): Eiralox
Lowell (1): Cat Scratch Fever
kennyk (1): BlueBloodedToffee
MalcolmTucker (1): Shoshin
BlueBloodedTofee (1): Malakittens
FancyPants (1): kennyk

Not Voting (1): MalcolmTucker

Sorry only skimming tonight.

@CW, understood but this:

What interactions are scum indicative? please share with the class

ope this is my main lmao

Is vague.

[FancyPants]

Based on their aggressive tone, OMGUS (a town tell for me, see me thinking Kenny voting for me was the only town thing he's done), and her whimsical entrance I had a tonal town read on Eiralox.
That said if these tonal tells were always true mafia would be very easy indeed. Based on the content of their posts Eira looks terrible.

This post in particular I really don't like 499:

uuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh?????? your shitty push at me? naming me scum for no reason and only expanding read after i vote u and only voting after irrelpant votes? You've been hiding this entire game. only now do you 'solve' everything.... i mean???? in what world do you pair me with lowell and mara? i'm happy to flip either of 'em if that'kll stroke your switches or whatever you use

In general she focuses quite a bit about CW being wrong about the "scum team" which is a very scummy thing to do, a way of calling out CW on what's he's actually wrong about, as opposed to defend herself (so scum Eira is smugly calling out CW for being wrong about something (the whole team) but not defending what he's actually right about (themselves being scum).)

I also agree with CW that their is a stark difference in play styles between CW's town games and this one. I'm personally very susceptible to being meta'd as I have no interest in being playing scum and usually don't post much and then replace out, so I understand the frustration with people using meta to catch you, but people do it because it's effective.

Then recently in post 580 she expresses a desire to vote Mala? After giving CW shit for scum reading them based on nothing (to me it was pretty clear CW was using POE).

All their posts since page 18 just come across as an implosion, even if Eira is town and they are just drunk or high or something, I'm going to have trouble A) reading a slot that acts so illogically (or at least so different from me that I can't understand their reasoning for anything) and B ) ever being secure in their towniness - I'm ready to vote Eira.

I'm going to quickly go back and make double extra sure of the votecount first, and I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on the wagon before they hangs.

[FancyPants]

Can I specifically get clarity from Kenny and Loftwing, exactly what they think of Eira and why, I know Loftwing gave reasoning when he voted, but can you clarify why her behaviour is scummy in your eyes.
Please don't say you have no opinion.

@Loftwing, nice Hamilton reference.

[FancyPants]

oh wow fancy now im feeling way worse about u. i don't do meta, peroid, ever, if ya'll wanna be pricks about that go ahead.

and between Loftwing, Lloyd, and Mala, i'm your pick? cos you can't read me?

well Fancy Pants has shifted full null for me again.

only players i'm greenish ion atm are Malcolm, Irrelphant, Cat Scratch.

I like you and Loftwing for scum actually. I didn't say I can't read you, I think you're scum because:
- After going after CW about scum reading Mala, you now want to vote Mala.
- You talked a lot about CW being wrong about the scum team, in particular you said " in what world do you pair me with lowell and mara? i'm happy to flip either of 'em if that'kll stroke your switches or whatever you use" which I find scummy as hell.
- Your whole demeanour changed after CW voted you and you basically went a bit nuts.
- Your main pushes seem to be Mala and Lowell, people who haven't said much - which strikes me as opportunistic "Save myself at any cost" type of behaviour.

And yes your meta looks bad but that's only a part of it.

In general I find your

kind

of tone to be townie so I'm having a little trouble reconciling you as scum, but when it comes to voting; content trumps tone.

I

did

say that if you are town I don't mind eliminating you anyway, because I find your posts too confusing, and your thought process impenetrable - so we're never going to be able to effectively work together.

[FancyPants]

@FancyPants u havent read yo. i said i was leaning scum on llowel and considering joining mala vote at time of Con Wrong poling. u got no input on this?

cos right now i've seen a lot of egomaniacal vapidity from Con, an utter mess of a scummish post from Loftwing, and u basically saying u wanna vote me cos me not joining the meta club is confusing ur reads and that im either drunk/high and therefore sunhuman to defend myself against Con Wrongs blatant self-assertiveness.

Irrel and Cat are the only ones voting me who are keeping cool heads imo, and that's points for them.

It's true you've been inconsistent in your suspicions of Lowell.

Can you ISo yourself and show me where you were suspicious of Malakittens? I must have missed that.

[FancyPants]

Sorry - the above sentence should read:
It's true you've been

consistent

in your suspicions of Lowell.

[FancyPants]

In what world do you wanna elim an active player who's forming reads and getting things going over Mala, whose done jack squat, or Loft, who's vapid air?

You see you continually say things I think are scummy.
Even the above quote.

You're basically saying you should be kept around because you're active and we should elim a lurker, but YOU were a lurker until pressure was mounted on you. Also scum players can be active. "No we should vote them instead" is not a defense.

[FancyPants]

" im not posting anything doesnt mean im not thinking it."
You've basically admitted earlier you didn't read most of the thread.

Moving on.

I have just accused you of first defending malakittens 443 and then expressing a willingness to vote them. You also said earlier 361 they were full null.
You said I was wrong because:

@FancyPants u havent read yo. i said i was leaning scum on llowel and

considering joining mala vote at time of Con Wrong poling.

u got no input on this?
.

The bolded part is what I'm talking about. Basically I want to know when and how you went from think Mala was Null, and attacking them is scummy, to now attacking them yourself.

[FancyPants]

uuuuuhhhhhh no lol there was no pressure. no on asked Con Wrong to expand on Eira read, i'm the one who took the pole and jammed it in the hole to get clarity. well ur another person im sorta gonna tune out rn(not as much as COn Wrong but still i'm getting nowhere with u, imma rest and come back and look at where i wanna look. don't become too confused in the meantime >.<)

You must understand that Con Wrong scum reading you, and you "taking the pole and jamming it in the whole" is exactly what I mean when I say "you responded to pressure".

[FancyPants]

Unofficial Vote Count

Eiralox

(5): Loftwing, Cat Scratch Fever, Fredrick A Campbell, Confidently Wrong, Irrelephant11

Loftwing

(3): MalcolmTucker, Lowell, FancyPants

BlueBloodedToffee

(1): Malakittens

FancyPants

(1): kennyk

Malakittens

(1):Shoshin

Confidently Wrong

(1): Eiralox

kennyk

(1): BlueBloodedToffee

Lowell

(0):

MalcolmTucker

(0):

Shoshin

(0):

Fredrick A Campbell

(0):

Cat Scratch Fever

(0):

Irrelephant11

(0):



With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

I went back to Kitty's last VC so I'm fairly confident this one's good.


I know I said I'd vote for Eiralox but I'm actually not ready yet.

[FancyPants]

then you and i define pressure as different things. i was in a very amused frame of mind when i voted con wrong.

-fin-

It's not about your frame of mind, or even the timing.

The fact is confidentally wrong called you in a scum team.

Before that you were barely posting.

Since then you have posted

considerably

more and this has just gotten worse and worse as more people have piled on to you.

This is basically the definition of responding to pressure, it doesn't

necessarily

mean you're scum but you have to concede that's what you've been doing. You have to admit that, it's so blatantly obvious anyone can see it, if you can't admit that then we must be interpreting reality differently.

Are you honestly saying it's a coincidence that you made

20 posts in the first 18 pages

(mostly meme's and one liners) and your

next 65 in the following 7 pages

after confidently wrong scum flagged you and THAT's NOT RESPONDING TO PRESSURE?

[FancyPants]

I'm losing it.

[FancyPants]

@Loftwing, your main is Jake the Wolfie right?

[FancyPants]

I have quite a busy social calendar until Sunday and my country is going through a disruptive energy crisis at the moment.

I'm still following on my phone when I can but my ability to participate in a meaningfully is impaired. Everything should resolve within a week.

For now I still like Loftwing the most so I'm parking.
CW may very well have a point about Eira but I've played enough mafia to know that (and I wish this wasn't true) shakey logic, poor reasoning and erratic behavior is not enough to make someone scum. Her tone is still angry Town. I'm very torn on that slot.

Im OK with a Lowell wagon (mostly for PoE reasons), and there is quite possibly a scum in Fred/BBT. In other words my thoughts are more or less in line with the town leaders at the moment.

I'll make sure to give final thoughts and vote if I need to before deadline.

[FancyPants]

But no one is saying that is scummy on its own.

That's all I've really seen so far

i'm liking this

Really?

I mean BBT says like 2 posts later that he hasn't read the 6 pages of back and forth between you and CW.

What is there to like about it.

[FancyPants]

I understand CW completely when he says Eira's reads are post hoc justified.

Eira decides someone is scum and then "finds" reasons for them to be scummy or townie based on reasoning which often makes no sense.

The only question is - Is Eira making these "after the fact reads" because:
- They are scum and know all the alignments but without any of the scum hunting or
- They are totally emotionally driven and anyone on their side is good, and anyone against them is bad, which they then justify to themselves in some convoluted way.

[FancyPants]

OK I'll stop interacting with you for now.

[FancyPants]

What're your reads, Loft?

Town

Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong
---
Cat Scratch Fever
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Irrelephant11
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Malakittens
---
kennyk
FancyPants
Eiralox

Scum

Do you think my interactions with KennyK come across as scummy?

[FancyPants]

What're your reads, Loft?

Town

Fredrick A Campbell
Confidently Wrong
---
Cat Scratch Fever
BlueBloodedToffee
Lowell
Irrelephant11
MalcolmTucker
Shoshin
Malakittens
---
kennyk
FancyPants
Eiralox

Scum

Do you think my interactions with KennyK come across as scummy?

I just don't enjoy your vibes in general, but I could go into a deeper analysis when I'm not about to sleep.

Please do when you have time on Saturday just your justification for the scum reads.

[FancyPants]

It's hard to vote off Loftwing based on your input because your reasoning for him being Town is meta related, and when I did my dive (admittedly before I knew he was an alt) I didn't find the same.

As for your case on Eira I think I understand your jist but what I don't see is why "Eira is just wrong and bad at cases." is a worse explanation. Additionally it's partially supported by your surety of everyone else's alignment (you could only know Eira is making reads based on knowing everyone's alignment if you ALSO know everyone's alignment, I hope that makes sense).
I understand you could just be that sure of yourself, or at least pretending to be but it's kinda weird and difficult to just sheep.

[FancyPants]

Why is loftwing town bbt?

[FancyPants]

I suppose I shall claim before my death is finalized.

I am a 1-shot neighborizor, and a secret second role which I will gladly take to the grave. I had no plans to use my ability tonight, as I trust none of you most, although given my revealed status at this point, I feel that, should I survive today, it will be of utmost importance that I neighborize with someone tonight.

Now then, decide my fate. I have revealed this information, now I shall sleep through what I hope is not my last and crucial hours of life. Goodnight.

I've never played with a neighbourizor but it sounds like he can clear himself by talking to someone tonight?

It's not a particularly useful power so it's not a huge loss if he dies, but perhaps it's pointless to take a shot at someone we can probably confirm.

I suppose if he neighbourizes, scum they could lie, I'm not really sure how to approach this.

I've mostly played newbie games with simply roles and semi-open set-ups.

UNVOTE: Loftwing

Just for now I will be online for the next 10 hours, so I am committing to seeing someone lynched, I could live with Eira or Lowell TBH, the latter mostly on PoE, my thoughts on Eira I've already stated clearly.

[FancyPants]

I suppose I shall claim before my death is finalized.

I am a 1-shot neighborizor, and a secret second role which I will gladly take to the grave. I had no plans to use my ability tonight, as I trust none of you most, although given my revealed status at this point, I feel that, should I survive today, it will be of utmost importance that I neighborize with someone tonight.

Now then, decide my fate. I have revealed this information, now I shall sleep through what I hope is not my last and crucial hours of life. Goodnight.

I've never played with a neighbourizor but it sounds like he can clear himself by talking to someone tonight?

It's not a particularly useful power so it's not a huge loss if he dies, but perhaps it's pointless to take a shot at someone we can probably confirm.

I suppose if he neighbourizes, scum they could lie, I'm not really sure how to approach this.

I've mostly played newbie games with simply roles and semi-open set-ups.

UNVOTE: Loftwing

Just for now I will be online for the next 10 hours, so I am committing to seeing someone lynched, I could live with Eira or Lowell TBH, the latter mostly on PoE, my thoughts on Eira I've already stated clearly.

[FancyPants]

After looking up some rules about normals I see that neighbourizer can be a scum aligned role (but is usually pro-town).
I'm looking for guidance from a more experienced player I'm pretty sure is town, so CW or Irrelevant basically, although I'll take input from anyone.

[FancyPants]

Him claiming a second role is useless because he didn't tell us what it is, I can only operate based on the information in front of me.
Also him having two roles seems kinda weird, it could even be his cheeky way of saying he's a scum neighbouriser.

@Fredrick, I do understand that he might be a scum neighbouriser, but I'd like an informed opinion about the likelihood of that, the likelihood of him having two roles, even just how often scum claim roles in closed set-ups, is it the case that they usually claim roles etc.

For reference, after dwelling on it I'm starting to lean towards just voting Loft again.

[FancyPants]

Can you briefly outline why Fred and Malcom are scummy?

[FancyPants]

actually im starting to lean scum on FAncyPants as well. their willingness to revote loftwing:

fancypants townreads confidently wrong but cw is townreading loftwing but fancypants seems still ok with loftwing elim after claim?

this all raises confidently wrong in my estimation, i'm holding open the possibility that cw is town and that at least some of the scum team is walkin in their shadow.

I know interacting with each other drives us both insane but if you're going to say something about me I have to respond.

Refering specifically to the bold part, I think CW is probably town, and also wrong about Loftwing, townies can be wrong because they don't actually know everyone's alignment. This should be obvious.

[FancyPants]

freds looks fishy. i also agree loft should do a full claim now, but there are certain scenarios and roles where id likely also be recalcitrant to do a full claim. whether that comes or not, im not voting on a claim d1. it can be verified or disproved. either fred or no exe for at me this point.

i'm out.

No elim... Really?
I'd rather vote almost anyone than no elim.

[FancyPants]

I don't want to start an argument with you but I am curious about the no elim thing.

If we elim a random person we have a 25% chance of hitting scum. If we elim noone we have a 0% chance of hitting scum that's my perspective.

[FancyPants]

Fine. I’ll be white-knighting scumBBTs errand boy if it gets us a vote.

vote Fred

I guess this ship has sailed, but man does that ever seem like a fake-claim. Never heard of a neighborizer—why would it exist in a mini.

Are you suggesting that you'd prefer to vote out a townie than not elim? Or are you suggesting BBT is bussing.

This post comes across as scummy as hell. Why sheep a player you believe is scum.

[FancyPants]

@BBT, I think your case on Fred has some merit, I do think his vote on Eira - subsequent poking, and then his vote off are fine, his pressure vote on mala is also fine he explains that he wasn't looking for her to hang.
His worst vote is for Loftwing, but it's far worse if Loftwing is scum I feel, I don't think scum Fred jumps on a town-loft for no reason, but I can see it being a bus. The justification for voting Loft from him was kind of a lurker thing which he has shown interest in chasing.

I see what you're saying but I'm not fully convinced.

[FancyPants]

Enough pearl clutching. Do something

I'll vote before I go to sleep tonight.

I'm just trying to be as sure as I can be.

So to be clear you won't answer the question?

[FancyPants]

Enough pearl clutching. Do something

I'll vote before I go to sleep tonight.

I'm just trying to be as sure as I can be.

So to be clear you won't answer the question?

Are you being serious here or what?

It’s D1, I’m not doing a no-elim. Any of you idiots can be scum. I’m not dogmatic and ppl who are are suspect to me. Stop performing outrage about votes and do something.

Ok that's fine, you're not confident about a scum read from BBT got it.

Fine. I’ll be white-knighting scumBBTs errand boy if it gets us a vote.

vote Fred

I guess this ship has sailed, but man does that ever seem like a fake-claim. Never heard of a neighborizer—why would it exist in a mini.

Are you suggesting that you'd prefer to vote out a townie than not elim? Or are you suggesting BBT is bussing.

This post comes across as scummy as hell. Why sheep a player you believe is scum.

Also, to be clear so I know what you find “scummy”: you’re saying a town player would not say “this guy is scum, meh okay I’ll sheep him” but a scum player would indeed say “this guy is scum, meh okay I’ll sheep him”?

The point is - there is already a wagon going, why specifically follow the one person you suspect the most when they start a new wagon. That's weird as hell.

As for you telling me to do something I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Asking questions is doing something, this conversation right now is doing something. If you mean "vote" I've already said I will do so before I go to sleep tonight.

Why is me trying to figure out who the best vote is "not doing something".

[FancyPants]

Yeah OK.
VOTE: Lowell

[FancyPants]

I don't wanna.
I don't think there's enough there.

[FancyPants]

I'm just not sure why sheeping town read players is scummy?

Do you like Lowell's vote on Fred, when you were supposed to be his biggest scum read?

[FancyPants]

I think agreeing with someone else doesn't make you scum.
I don't feel like only those who can produce a wholly original case are scum. Sometimes people just agree.

Don't get me wrong he was on my "secondary" scum list but so are you. I do think you making a wagon out of nothing is town behaviour town, but I can't know that without knowing the alignments of Loftwing or Lowell.

In short I'm not entirely swayed by your case, and I don't trust you. I will say I've set an alarm for 5am (deadline) and if my vote can prevent no elim I'll swap.

[FancyPants]

Ditto. If we’re t/t we either win or one of us gets NK’d by then

Is Fred the loft alternative? Should fred claim or is that too much claiming?

Is this really the case? What about Lowell?

[FancyPants]

Unofficial Vote Count

Loftwing (3): Irrelephant11, Shoshin, Fred
Lowell (3): Cat Scratch Fever, Loftwing, , FancyPants
Fredrick A Campbell (3): BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Confidently Wrong,
Eiralox (1): kennyk
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Malakittens


Not Voting (1): Eiralox, MalcolmTucker

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.


It's something like this.

[FancyPants]

Sorry ammended:

Unofficial Vote Count

Fredrick A Campbell (4): BlueBloodedToffee, Lowell, Confidently Wrong, Eiralox
Loftwing (3): Irrelephant11, Shoshin, Fred
Lowell (3): Cat Scratch Fever, Loftwing, , FancyPants
Eiralox (1): kennyk
BlueBloodedToffee (1): Malakittens


Not Voting (1):MalcolmTucker

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.

[FancyPants]

Looking at this makes me worry about CW, he's on a wagon with his other 2 scum reads.
Surely in CW's mind that's not the scum trio.

Regardless it's too late for that. I'm going to stay up for about an hour but then I'm really pushing my bed time.

[FancyPants]

Its partly process of elimination from town reads, party him not participating in the game and making only token efforts to scum hunt.

These weird reads from 288, his jump onto the Loft wagon 422 but mostly I don't like how he read BBT as scum here 851 and then a few posts later he votes with BBT 935, I don't understand why town Lowell jumps onto a wagon his biggest scumread started. He later basically said his read on BBT wasn't strong as justification and acted a bit squirrelly when confronted about this 943.

The case isn't great and I'm not super confident but I don't think the case is great on Fred either, I still think it's loftwing but if he does confirm he's the neighbourizer at least his scum probability goes down a bit.

Don't get me wrong I don't like Fred much but my thoughts haven't changed too much from here:

Also for reference I'm liking scum in:
{Loftwing/Kenny/Lowell/Malakittens}

Increasing the net would add {BBT, and maybe Eira}

The point being this wagon:
Fredrick A Campbell (4):

BlueBloodedToffee

,

Lowell

, Confidently Wrong,

Eiralox

Has three people who are in my probables scum list so I'm very wary about just jumping on this wagon.

[FancyPants]

@CW, noted, and for what it's worth if you do get NKed like you fear I promise to take your posthumous reads seriously.

[FancyPants]

288 is Malcolm and 442 is Irrelephant...

Also, if your reads haven't changed over 800 posts you're probably doing something wrong. Or scum.

Sorry it's 266 and 412, I'm trying to do this in a hurry.

[FancyPants]

288 is Malcolm and 442 is Irrelephant...

Also, if your reads haven't changed over 800 posts you're probably doing something wrong. Or scum.

I'm softer on Kenny and Mala but otherwise stand by them.

[FancyPants]

@CW, just for what it's worth you like Fred because you agree with BBT's reasoning yes?

[FancyPants]

I'm back from my trip, but I'm kind of mentally dead bc hangover

I was town on Fred, because they seem to be naturally reassessing their reads (their reads would change at times when I thought it made sense to), but if it comes down to the wire, i will probably be willing to vote anyone.

Does anyone townread Lowell? I'd be interested in hearing why

BBT didn't like the Loft or Lowell wagon so they might have an opinion.
I think for the most part he's scum read or null read although I don't want to speak for anyone.

[FancyPants]

Fred;

156 This was the first post that caught my attention. The LAMIST post, give three town reads. Extremely easy for scum to do given the extra information they have - three scum reads would be better to create actual content, no?

214 The random push on the LHF. I get this to an extent, it's early game so push the low posters for content. 223, 334 335 though continues this push further, now it becomes a 'genuine push' as opposed to a low content push and is where I start to dislike it. This is the first time he sheeps CW.

348 His fascination with Eira not voting anyone. This continues for quite some time and yet he doesn't apply this to other players - like Malcolm.

545 He votes Eira. Sheeping CW (again) and Irrelephant. Now, as scum, this is a great way to go by unnoticed right? Just do what the loudest, widest town read players do and you get no hassle. He very much goes with the flow of the thread and I'm not sure I've seen any originality from him at all?

554 OK, some explanation for the Eira vote. Fascination with the no voting (again) and given it seems so important to him, why has he not applied the same thinking to Malcolm? I mean, the first paragraph is a narrative of what happened and doesn't actually indicate why he thinks Eira is scum. The whole post has a lot of words but doesn't actually say why what Eira has done is scummy.

Eira wagon; Eiralox (5): Confidently Wrong, Irrelephant11, Fredrick A Campbell, Cat Scratch Fever, Loftwing

Is that all town? Seems unlikely.

572 LAMIST, don't anybody dare hammer my scumread!

He is first to jump off the Eira wagon though, which gives me some pause. It is, though, after Irrelephant mentions he has lost his Shoshin and Mala reads. 647 pre-emptively sheeping by voting Mala.

766 Random vote on Lowell. Literally, aside from talking about low content posters, this has come from nowhere. Or has it? In 753 Irrelephant says that Mala is town...and just like that, Fred backs off Mala. Not only does he back off Mala, he again chooses to go for the LHF. We're now 31 pages into the game by the way.

768 A horrific explanation for the shift in votes.

838 Why is he asking why Loft is town? Angling to join the wagon? He has shown no previous interest in this player.

842 Declares intent to hammer Loft? WHAT? Where did this come from? After some talk about Fred possibly being scum he speeds up his 'timer' for hammering Loft.

Can anyone guess who recently joined the Loft push before Fred decided it was good for him, too? You get two guesses.

Spoiler: Who is it?

It's Irrelephant (again!)

892 Justification for the Loft vote. It's simply appalling that this late into the game, all of Fred's reads amount to 'but they're not doing anything.' He has sheeped either CW or Irrelephant the entire game.

[FancyPants]

OK welp.

Fred it is, no hope of a counter wagon if Shosh and Irrel are gonna vote Fred.

VOTE: Fredrick A Campbell

I believe that's L-1

Fred if you're around time to claim.

[FancyPants]

If town, bbt deserves jail time k bye

This post is kinda scummy, but I guess we talk tomorrow.

[FancyPants]

@Loftwing, I'm expecting you to neighbourize tonight so no excuses if you don't.

[FancyPants]

@Malakittens and Lowell, who are your strongest bets for scum day 2?

CW and BBT somewhat tainted by Loftwing association but townies can just be wrong. CW read Loft as town based on meta, this contradicted my own meta reading of him, which makes CW slightly worse in my eyes. BBT seems like he's on this anyway.

@Gamma Emerald, welcome to the game, I'd be interested in what you have to say when you're caught up.

[FancyPants]

Fancy, was CWs read on Loft purely meta?

I haven't reread the thread but that's what I can remember. Hold on.

[FancyPants]

OK found the relevant interactions.

I start pushing the loftwing slot, I dislike his vote and then jump off of Kenny, when I ask CW why he TR's Loft he says:

305
(vibes and meta are his reason for townreading loft).

Later I make a big case on loft based on my meta read and the original kenny vote/unvote
394

CW reaffirms Loft is Town:
402

I do ask for a clarification here:
406

I don't believe he clarifies further and at this point starts a long back and forth between Eira.


For what it's worth I'm going to find it hard to come to terms with CW-scum but I do see the case, it's just a bit too

obvious

. Does town CW defend his scum buddy like this? IDK,

[FancyPants]

Day 2 town block is as follows:

Myself/Irrelephant/Malcom/Kenny

It's probably not Eira or Lowell either.

Last two scum are in:
BlueBloodedToffee
Confidently Wrong
Gamma Emerald
Malakittens

[FancyPants]

OK found the relevant interactions.

I start pushing the loftwing slot, I dislike his vote and then jump off of Kenny, when I ask CW why he TR's Loft he says:

305
(vibes and meta are his reason for townreading loft).

Later I make a big case on loft based on my meta read and the original kenny vote/unvote
394

CW reaffirms Loft is Town:
402

I do ask for a clarification here:
406

I don't believe he clarifies further and at this point starts a long back and forth between Eira.


For what it's worth I'm going to find it hard to come to terms with CW-scum but I do see the case, it's just a bit too

obvious

.

Does town CW defend his scum buddy like this?

IDK,

I think it's perfectly possible presuming CW was banking on Loftwing not being eliminated.

Maybe. There was intent to hammer at one point though. The wagon was quite advanced.

[FancyPants]

VOTE: Kennyk with a wand of ennui

Let's make peace today OK?

Can you explain why you're voting Kenny?

[FancyPants]

Got it.

[FancyPants]

@Kenny, you're there because of the nature of the Loft wagon, you also did have loft as one of your scum reads you just don't like to vote (which I know from your meta).

@Malcom, Malcom is one of the most obvtown of all, he helped me form the loft wagon, voted early, and cleared Irrelephant first thing today (with reasoning I totally agree with).

I'm giving less credit to those who voted loft when the wagon already had momentum.

[FancyPants]

the whispers.... the scrittering scratching at my tearing and rending all semblances of and as i might try but no the whispers the whispers yes follow the whispers

Fancy might have gotten it. I don't. And by that I mean I genuinely don't get what you are trying to say by this at all. This might be due to the fact I am no native english speaker. I really tried to translate it, but it doesn't add up.

They are saying it's a gut read. It's just an Eira thing.

[FancyPants]

Also if anyone got any notification that Loftwing targeted them for neighbourizing they should let us know. I have no idea if the player would know this already.

[FancyPants]

Fancy pants immediately saying I'm probably scum is indicative of an inability to think town can be wrong

Are you sure this is directed at me?
Bruh.

[FancyPants]

Yes i think it is stupid to think townies are an informed party wgo know they are wrong

I agree. I don't think that's the attitude I've conveyed today? I think you're slightly dodgy for your loftwing interactions but if anything I've been defending you today.

[FancyPants]

Oh you're being sarcastic?

[FancyPants]

[quote="In post 1093
I am 100% sure gamma slot is town btw and they'll see me town so there's that[/quote]
100%, is that a soft-claim?

[FancyPants]

CW, are you softclaiming with the Gamma slot read?
Also can you confirm the bolded comment below was sarcasm?

Day 2 town block is as follows:

Myself/Irrelephant/Malcom/Kenny

It's probably not Eira or Lowell either.

Last two scum are in:
BlueBloodedToffee
Confidently Wrong
Gamma Emerald
Malakittens

CW, why were you reading Loftwing as town?

Because sometimes i suck on d1 and was too generous with a townread there!
Now i can reeval rho

Fancy pants immediately saying I'm probably scum is indicative of an inability to think town can be wrong

[FancyPants]

OK super sus entrance from CW.
Please answer the above CW, I'm going to keep asking if you don't.

[FancyPants]

Also im not answering any PR related probes. Your interest is weird.

Gamma knows how to read me + if i was scum he was dead tonight.
Gamma this is koba btw

Surety = scummy.

I accept your explanation for now.

Waiting for some absent people to comment.

[FancyPants]

I’m dead ok with wagoning Lowell.

Everyone else I’ll get back to u on that

Why Lowell?

[FancyPants]

Lowell was confident on Loftwing wagon and was on it reasonably early. Very much town I think. Only slot on that wagon I'd have any doubts about at the moment is Gamma given Shoshin didn't say much but again I feel like it's unlikely scum would place a vote there, so Gamma is likely town too.

Don't feed them answers.

[FancyPants]

I agree with you though.

[FancyPants]

Actually CW is town.

Scum in {Mala/Gamma/BBT} maaaaaybe Lowell or Eira.

[FancyPants]

Irrelephant what's WIM?

Still waiting on Malakittens to expand and Gamma to post.

[FancyPants]

IMPORTANT POST: PLEASE READ

I claim Town 3-Shot Tracker.

Last night I tracked Shoshin (now Gamma), their slot visited CSF. I'm fairly sure I just got scum.

Possible Questions:

Why claim now, when we could get more from the game and Gamma in particular?

I basically just feel bad, making them just read 52 pages, and make up some bullshit just to have me insta-out them, their latest post convinced me I should just end the torment. I also don't want the game to derail to much without giving the rest of town this information.

Why Shoshin?

I knew scum would submit with their "least" suspicious scum member, which meant I wanted to avoid people who were under heavy fire like; Eiralox/Kenny/Lowell/Loft etc.
I was townreading Irrelephant, CW, Malcom, CSF.
It basically came down to Malakittens, BBT and Shoshin; I reread BBT's case on Fred and it came across more town that, not, CSF I had a general tonal town read on so I opted for Shoshin.

You realize they might not be scum, and it's just coincidence they targeted the same person as scum?

Yes and this is an obvious worry, I'll let Gamma make up a story if they want, I've given it a lot of thought and there aren't too many roles that make sense to target CSF in this scenario so I'm all but certain I just hit scum.

Speculation based on this flip:

Irrelephant is absolutely clear to me, they were almost universally town read so they would have been the obvious choice to submit, you could say the same for CW although slightly less so after the Fred flip. I also got super paranoid after CW said:

I actually had a game i replaced into recently where i was completely wrong on scumreads but after 1 flip and a retuning i was able to get the whole team which i have confidence i can do here.

I am 100% sure gamma slot is town btw and they'll see me town so there's that

Because it made me think they might might be going for some big brain scum team gambit, and I tried to force CW to "claim" so I could slam dunk them when Gamma flipped but I think this was nothing. CW has been prone to hyperbole with regards to how certain he is about reads, I no longer think this comment means anything.

Current thoughts:

Town reads

based on

EITHER

interactions with Loftwing, or Shosin:
Irrelephant
Lowell (if you take into account his Loft interactions + he's been the only one vaguely interested in a Gamma lynch today)
CW
Malcom
Eira (CW correctly pointed out her interaction with Loft is really good for them.

Not Sure

BBT (Gut town read, but everything they've done still has a possibility of being scum fueled)
Kenny (Irrelephant has correctly pointed out that their interactions with Loft aren't that great)

Probable Scum

Malakittens

Almost certainly scum:

Gamma Emerald

VOTE: Gamma Emerald


I think it's as simple as Mala/Gamma, I think both players realize how hard it would be to actually win at this point and can't summon the energy.
For what it's worth CW I am still highly motivated for the game I just wanted Gamma to comment but I feel bad now they replaced into an impossible situation, also I just woke up.

Open to all questions etc, although I'm going to a BBQ in about 5 hours, so keep that in mind.

[FancyPants]

Also I think I'm allowed to bring this up:
The replace shenanigans make this slot more scummy in my opinion, especially since Irrelephant said Shosh likes playing town.

[FancyPants]

if it's gamma, it's not gamma/mala? too easy, but meh. gamma/cw makes more sense 2 me. buuuuut i mean can still be anyone else, ive felt town on shoshin d1 but N1 after hammer i was considering shosh/cw.... look at early stuff, and who cw names and does not name scum. but i'm not going to vote anywhere just yet, Fancy has cast the glove and now the sorting begins.

i'm green on Fancy after Fred vote, i have no reason not to fully trust this claim.

Sometimes games are just easy.

I do have my eyes on CW don't get me wrong, but I'm town reading him based on tone. I understand he an experienced scum player but it's just so unbelievable to me. I may do a meta dive on CW (DrKoba) at some point but for now I really do think he's just town trying his best.

[FancyPants]

OK so the BBQ has been moved up because we're going to watch Aus vs England as well as South Africa vs Wales, so I'm not going to be here at all today. I am sorry about this but I don't think there's too much to discuss.

There are some scenarios where we leave Gamma to the vig I suppose. I should have most of tomorrow to post (for reference that's roughly 22 hours from now).

[FancyPants]

Go ahead, I'm too hungover to think.

My post where I claimed has all my thoughts.

[FancyPants]

i'm still like not entirely sure shoshin slot was even scum and i wanted gamma to say something and rushing here was really bad :/

Frankly I thought I was doing Gamma a favour, I can't imagine they want to read the entire thread just to find themselves in this position.

It's totally different if they are town, but then it's their responsibility to be a better townie - they could have at least popped in with a "I'm not scum, will offer more when I have time."

[FancyPants]

Nobody claim

Fancy did you get a useful result?

Mala was obviously shot by vig. Scum probably shot at fancy who was somehow protected or didn’t shoot so as to not get tracked. I’d like to eliminate kenny.

I tracked Mala sadly, not a great track in retrospect, I didn't give it much thought because I thought I'd be dead, my mistake.

[FancyPants]

I mean for me it's still between Kenny/CW/BBT but the thread deserves a reread now that I know I'm alive, which I don't have time for at the moment.

[FancyPants]

For reference I wasn't blocked, I got a result it was just kittens didn't go anywhere.

[FancyPants]

Lol. Wish you had lied just to make scum squirm tbh. Oh well

That would have been good , I'm really not a gambit guy though.

I'm still fairly sure it isn't: Irre/Eira/Lowell/Malcom

Mostly based on Loftwing interactions.

I need to do an ISO of BBT and Kenny at the very least before I can settle on a lynch for today.

[FancyPants]

Last scum is definitely a rolecop and holstered kill to scout

Incorrect. Mafia can multitask, it's in the first post under set-up.

[FancyPants]

I also think you're the least likely to be scum of my scum pool for the record.

[FancyPants]

Also im extemely spewed town off both scum get real if im in your POE just for being wrong

For reference can you explain what you mean when you say spewed?


Are you saying here that the two scum were calling you town? Or that you're very town based on some scum interactions.

[FancyPants]

If the game isnt a lock here, the normal review group was wilding and gave us a follow the cop scenario(plausible still so kek), or mafia intentionally no killed for strategic reasons, thus making me feel kenny is less likely in that scenario due to lower experience

Based on my role, and Fred's role I think all power roles are limited shot, so it's possible if there is a protective it might be 1 shot or limited in some way.
I also think it's possible that scum/tracker/vig all targetted Mala, or based on the above logic maybe the vig is also 1 shot and is only forced to kill night 1, IDK.

This post sounds a bit salty though...
I'm off to a pub quizz but expect a deeper dive from me tomorrow.

[FancyPants]

I'm replacing out unfortunately a serious life situation has come up - the mod just hasn't got to it yet.

I'm sorry everyone.

[FancyPants]

I did PM Kitty, I presume they haven't been online since.

[FancyPants]

Thanks for the game guys, I vaguely regretted replacing out as my life drama got wrapped up much quicker than I thought, although it wouldn't really have mattered.

Enjoyed playing with everyone even though I disagreed with CW plenty they added plenty of spice, and I'd love to play again with them at some point.

Basically town were too competent and scum too inactive and just let us decide the narrative, shout out too lowell for making generally pretty excellent reads the entire game, same goes for Irrel, BBT also made great kills, I presume you killed Mala n2?

I'm happy with my play except my track on Mala n2 was garbage I expected to die and gave it very little thought, which is a mistake I won't make again, I didn't even factor in the Vig.

GG WP perfect games always are nice.

[FancyPants]

I did shoot Mala yeah, seemed the best way to sort the slot.

Guessing scum no killed because Kenny flaked?

Totally agree with that kill, that slot was an easy mislim today.

[FancyPants]

Oh and very well done for shooting Loft, I should have realized that Neighbourizer claim was bad.

[FancyPants]

I did shoot Mala yeah, seemed the best way to sort the slot.

Guessing scum no killed because Kenny flaked?

Totally agree with that kill, that slot was an easy mislim today.

I do wonder about the no kill, Kenny flake is the easiest explanation.

I guess the only other one is that scum also killed mala for some reason? Unless we have an unclaimed protective floating about.

[FancyPants]

The track on Shoshin was beautiful though. Not a chance in this world I would have chosen him I don't think.

Thanks definitely an element of luck but I did gave it a lot of thought, I actually had loftwing targeted originally because of his "and another role which I'll take to my grave comment" but I realized that that slot would never submit.

[FancyPants]

It wasn't even the claim. Once my reason for TR Loft disappeared I ISO'd the slot and it became pretty clear

Just for interest sake what was your reason for TRing Loft?

[FancyPants]

It genuinely was the Commuter soft.

I completely forgot that scum can be Commuter and I didn't think scum would soft a role so early.

Ah that makes sense good turn around by vigging him after. I actually remembered we didn't have a perfect game just felt like it because we won before n3 .