Datisi's Café [game over!]

[furtiveglance]

Sorry I'm late, take it out of my wages.

[furtiveglance]

I'd say I have 2 reads, maybe 3.

[furtiveglance]

Pagetop no

[furtiveglance]

Thank you for calling me coy.

[furtiveglance]

I just gained 2 reads.

[furtiveglance]

i bored someone post

pedit Hi furtiveglance what are your reads

My big reads are on Klick, Mastina, Petapan and RC.

I have a smaller read on Ausuka and You.

[furtiveglance]

i bored someone post

pedit Hi furtiveglance what are your reads

My big reads are on Klick, Mastina, Petapan and RC.

I have a smaller read on Ausuka and You.

May I beg of thee a crumb of alignment upon those reads

Why don't you guess? It's 3 townreads, 1 scumread, 1 townlean and 1 scumlean.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Titus

I am waiting at the counter
For the man to pour the coffee

You're not pouring the coffee then. That's usually what employees do

[furtiveglance]

I hope i’m the scumread

I’m uninterested in the guessing game though as much as it would give back regarding reads

Why uninterested? I literally made it so easy for you. Also, you can only be a LEAN, since I said you were a smaller read.

[furtiveglance]

WHATEVER

the town ones are mastina klick at minimum

you probably have 1-2 mafia between me and peta

rce and ausuka fill in the blanks

Yeah you're close, Petapan and Ausuka are the bakas.

[furtiveglance]

i agree on one of those reads



(;

You disagree with everything then. Unless you're scumreading yourself.....

I know I just showed up but I'm going on my lunch break. Someone cover for me

[furtiveglance]

Wtf I'm not a Baka

(As I'm going out the door)

WALT!

[furtiveglance]

Also, I did confirm with the mod that there is guaranteed to be at least one VT in the game. I assume there is also more than one VT in the game, and guessing the ratio of PR to VT is probably pretty important. I was estimating somewhere around 2:1 to 1:1-- having too many VT's makes it trivially easy to keep productivity up. Since we need to average at least 75%, if we assume 2:1 PR:VT, the PR's would need to average around 62%, which honestly isn't bad.

The tricky thing is that hitting way too high is also pretty devastating for town because we lose a lot of power. So we should probably aim for no higher than 85%, which would require a PR average of 78%.

So my (almost) completely uninformed take is that most PR's should be producing between 62-78%. Since mastina is committed to 0 and is probably roughly 10% of town's PR's, shift that up 10% for today, so 68-86%.

Does the ratio of town/mafia not matter then?

Also, what if I'm a super important PR (Power Role) that needs to use at least 100% every night?

[furtiveglance]

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

[furtiveglance]

aorn the undisputable best doggos: uncrowned & RC

the most likely good doggo: andre

the questionable good doggos: peta, titan, mastina, ydrasse

the two fs (furtive and fire for those unawarea) and ausuka require further

inspection

i can also be convinced of perhaps joining the charge onto one Ircher if they do not have a sufficient defense and people are not enlightened enough to join me on my crusade against ausuka

that is all for now

So you like inspecting?

[furtiveglance]

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

Ok....does the setup state how many scum and I missed it?

No, the setup states we don't know. The point is Ircher could be doing a sus TMI scum slip!

[furtiveglance]

I think Titus is town.

[furtiveglance]

We shouldn't fire Ydrasse, I think they're an Employee. I'll vote Ircher for now but I might unvote if they come on and explain why they thought 17/4.

VOTE: Ircher

Uncrowned I voted someone.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Ircher

Baa

Sus, could be....a bus

[furtiveglance]

im already bored, that wore off fast

i think furtive is town

Why, do I remind you of me in The Turing Test?

[furtiveglance]

im already bored, that wore off fast

i think furtive is town

Why, do I remind you of me in The Turing Test?

yea, you feel very comfortable and loose in the same way

And your pocket feels comfortable and loose.

[furtiveglance]

let's fucking go i'm back baby

VOTE: Ausuka

town

you wouldn't by any chance be trying to flatter me would you, peta? you know I love being called town you sly devil

yes absolutely what are you going to do about it

i feel like this post is actually AI, believe it or not

i haven't decided which direction yet though

hopefully town

yo so are you going to end up circling back to this or was this just busywork to look like you're doing something?

Just to piggyback on this and really put the boot in, I never have this kind of thought. Something is either town or scum for me or neither, not....'something'. At the time I interpreted it as shade, like a scumping.

[furtiveglance]

I think at least one of Ircher/SS if not both are scum. The timing of this slip argument right as SS gets pushed for reads is a bit sus when that argument was there all along.

Are you saying I successfully caused a distraction?

[furtiveglance]

Being town is cute

Is it a mood or a vibe? I can never tell.....

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: RCE

I am sitting in the morning
At the diner on the corner

This feels like a sensible vote

I didn't like it, based on RC's posting at the time.

[furtiveglance]

daykill: Malakittens

Totally real ability moment

[furtiveglance]

Tangentially, I'd be -very- surprised if the setup were 16:5

What do you think it is?

[furtiveglance]

I think you can probably assess this setup's balance as though there is little town power at all
16:5 mountainous or close to it would be ridiculously scumsided
17:4 mountainous would... probably still be rather scumsided but that's why there's some power right?

The productivity mechanic implies town has a lot of power.

[furtiveglance]

I read Squid Game recently so that's partly why I thought 16/5 is normal for these large games. As for Ircher 'freezing', they probably just haven't been on, I don't want to smoke them without letting them defend.

[furtiveglance]

I read Squid Game recently so that's partly why I thought 16/5 is normal for these large games. As for Ircher 'freezing', they probably just haven't been on, I don't want to smoke them without letting them defend.

Are you a stoner?
Gotta light it if you wanna smoke it

I'm not a stoner, no. Are you?

[furtiveglance]

Could be. IIoA doesn't have to be true. The argument is pedantic though as we can't find out exactly how many scum there are until much later

I guess. But it seems like it probably didn't occur to Ircher that it's not known how many scum there are. So if that didn't occur to him, and he

did

know how many scum there were, he would have to use the correct number. The only time he would use the wrong number is if he were deliberately trying to appear like he didn't know how many scum there were, but I don't see why he would do that because it could still look like a scumslip.

I think the discussion is worthwhile because it's about probability. If we agree there are probably 5 scum, that makes Ircher look a lot better than if we agree there are probably 4. Though, I would buy that it's outstayed its welcome.

I don't think I'm doing mental gymnastics when I say that I originally assumed 16/5, but now that Ircher assumed 17/4 without acknowledging that they were assuming that, I am now considering a 4-player mafia team with Ircher as one of those.

[furtiveglance]

221 doesn't make a lot of sense, but I don't think it's scummy. I like that Titus calls some posts town straight up, it's town indicative I think.

[furtiveglance]

I can add to my reads that Penguin seemed townier than S_S in their interaction earlier. Not that I scumread SS, just null.

[furtiveglance]

I don't like Luke's and Fire's harping on mechanics on Page 2, it's dressing up something simple as an overly complex reason to vote Ircher.

I am confused.

What part of my mechanics posting on page 2 was related to Ircher? (outside of my single line question to him)

I mean, I did chide Mastina about stating her productivity, and say other people should not do that. And then, cleared up a misunderstanding that Roden had.

But how or why are you drawing lines between those comments and Ircher? They are completely unrelated in my mind, with no bearing on one another, so like I said. I am confused.

I still believe in the Ircher vote, guilty until proven innocent for me. Can't wait for them to come on and explain.

How I draw lines is the subject of many questions, but having a semi-eidetic memory helps.

VOTE: petapan

For weird flails and misjudging vibes and cause by now Ircher seems too obvious to be scum.

[furtiveglance]

I don't like Luke's and Fire's harping on mechanics on Page 2, it's dressing up something simple as an overly complex reason to vote Ircher.

I am confused.

What part of my mechanics posting on page 2 was related to Ircher? (outside of my single line question to him)

I mean, I did chide Mastina about stating her productivity, and say other people should not do that. And then, cleared up a misunderstanding that Roden had.

But how or why are you drawing lines between those comments and Ircher? They are completely unrelated in my mind, with no bearing on one another, so like I said. I am confused.

How I draw lines is the subject of many questions, but having a semi-eidetic memory helps.

VOTE: petapan

For weird flails and misjudging vibes and cause by now Ircher seems too obvious to be scum.

My bad, this is what I said: I still believe in the Ircher vote, guilty until proven innocent for me. Can't wait for them to come on and explain.

[furtiveglance]

Nero any words for us?

[furtiveglance]

Nero any words for us?

I GOT TWO WORDS FOR YOU!

Can you write a song and upload it to YT?

[furtiveglance]

who has experience playing with Mr vivax

Turing Test. Town. I misread weird posting. Hard to understand.

[furtiveglance]

I thought I'd do a 'big' post since people have expressed concern for game length. You don't have to read the spoilered bits if you don't want! In this 'readslist', I will give my input into how 'sus' selected players are as we build and reshape this new social hierarchy.

Disclaimer: some of this relies on meta. I've just fully embraced meta now. Sorry BBT and my former self.

Uncrowned

:

Spoiler:

Seems to be exploring the thread really openly, my strongest townread so far. Progression on Roden looks good. There's an offchance they're mafia playing really comfortably but in that scenario they probably drop later so I'm happy to invoke the dreaded 'locktown' status here for the time being.

Petapan

:

Spoiler:

I've gone from scumreading to townreading this player. Early vote hopping with strange poetry was just different from Newbie 2101, but since then they've put out some substantial reads. They also seem not to be S/S with Ircher (yes a pre-flip associative. Tell me 485 and 502 are paired). The read on Titus seems genuine, although I don't agree.

Titus

:

Spoiler:

Town for me. 192 looks towny, as does 221. I often see pre-flip stuff criticised but I haven't seen it come from mafia all that often (if you have, fine). Also banging on about Ircher 'freezing' looks towny whether Titus is right or wrong. Just the strength of conviction seems genuine to me.

Nero Cain

:

Spoiler:

I found the songs annoying (sorry) but 522 is one of the more genuine posts I've seen all game so far, especially regretting not taking it further. Also Nero feels really similar to Newbie 2101 in this game. Maybe that's just the tone. Still town.

Vivax

:

Spoiler:

This is a slot that I'm townreading based on Open 861: The Turing Test (viewtopic.php?t=89769&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go) - 290 is an example of a more lucid post, which I find towny. Not the strongest read, more of a lean.

RC

:

Spoiler:

Town. Gives early reads, offers to protect Roden (100), 219 and 359 also look solvey. Not getting the scumreads here.

Roden

:

Spoiler:

432 and 474 both townread players (PP and Petapan) for the same reason: being reasonable about something (setup balance and how often to post). I not only don't see the logic, but find it hard to believe this is how Roden gets his reads. The only other read from Roden so far is a complex townlean on Titus (473). I'm scumleaning Roden so far, but sometimes they get townier as the game goes on. We'll see.

Ircher

:

Spoiler:

451 is not an adequate response to being ran up charged with a 'slip'. "4 is pretty typical for a game of this size." 321 from PP lists some 4-scum large games, so I was probably mistaken in thinking 5 was more typical. However, my response to 451 is that I want to vote Ircher again and see if it does anything. Quoting the word 'guess' in Lukewarm's post is obviously a conscious decision, but it hasn't worked on me! As for the vote on Vivax, it's partly the destination of the vote, but also the reasoning given that I don't like - "but Vivax is sticking out like a sore thumb." This can mean 2 things: 1) Vivax is obvious mafia, or 2) Vivax is playing weirdly. I interpreted it the 2nd way, which never feels like the most compelling reason for a scumread and it's a reason I often see mafia give.

[furtiveglance]

^I thought these were the kind of 'main characters' lately, let me know who else you want me to feature!

[furtiveglance]

^I thought these were the kind of 'main characters' lately, let me know who else you want me to feature!

fire

For a second I thought you meant this line was fire from me. Never mind, I forgot Fire and I needed some kind of 'inspection'.

Background to this one is Turing Test obviously. If you go and read the dead thread, I was convinced that Fire was the last mafia until the last day, and so was at least one other player. Initially in this game I kind of scumleaned Fire at first, for the comment about posting too much, I've never really cared about post count. You mentioned 86 already, in hindsight idk how scummy it is. Fire is quite a stream of consciousness-y player as town. 208 is a bit early to townread me, I'm not sure I really had memed as much as Turing Test at that point. Actually there are a few posts. 240 one of the most towny posts I can point to.

Basically to conclude, Fire isn't quite a strong townread yet but could become one with time. Not a major suspect either. I suppose this is more a townlean than a null, I hate nulling players.

[furtiveglance]

I'm here, jjh summoned me with that scumread.

[furtiveglance]

Also it's a statistical "rule" that I don't think ever held any meaningful basis, and many scum players who are aware of it have been known to purposefully violate it anyway because it throws people off who follow it religiously

I think it does have a basis in psychology. If you tell someone to come up with 50 random coinflip results, most people will have too few long streaks of one result, because outliers like that don't feel as "random". Similarly, if scum pick a "random" group of 3 people, they're more likely to mix in alignments proportionally than if it were actually random.

But yes, it doesn't work on people who are aware of it, and it is easy to manipulate. (I've done so as scum plenty of times.)

Too much math now.

[furtiveglance]

Also it's a statistical "rule" that I don't think ever held any meaningful basis, and many scum players who are aware of it have been known to purposefully violate it anyway because it throws people off who follow it religiously

I think it does have a basis in psychology. If you tell someone to come up with 50 random coinflip results, most people will have too few long streaks of one result, because outliers like that don't feel as "random". Similarly, if scum pick a "random" group of 3 people, they're more likely to mix in alignments proportionally than if it were actually random.

But yes, it doesn't work on people who are aware of it, and it is easy to manipulate. (I've done so as scum plenty of times.)

Too much math now.

I've become so Americanised

[furtiveglance]

Fine Fire is town.

[furtiveglance]

Does anyone besides me think its kinda odd that JJ has me so low in his town list but he's literally sheeping half my scum reads? Prob not but it felt sorta odd to me, idk.

Hey, you too?

[furtiveglance]

Okay, question for furtiveglance and specifically NOT Nero then

Who are Nero's scumreads

Ircher and Vivax

[furtiveglance]

I'll wait for nero to confirm vivax was who he was concerned about because I have no clue who he scumreads aside from Ircher


Follow-up though

Ircher is widely scumread. It seems bizarre to me that one of your thoughts upon reading my readslist is such an absurdly Nero-centric take

Is vivax such a wildly uncommon scumread at this point in the game that something weird is going on if I scumread these 2 people, and also 2 other people, and have Nero low down in my town pile?

You have claimed the same thought process as Nero here. It makes sense as to why it would come from him but since you've agreed with him I'd like you to be the one to explain your working

I'd accept it if you explained any of your own working, a 'gut take' is surely a simple read on what's happening. I'm either scum pushing town!Ircher, or town pushing town, or town pushing scum. Unless you want to argue that we're both scum?

[furtiveglance]

I'll wait for nero to confirm vivax was who he was concerned about because I have no clue who he scumreads aside from Ircher


Follow-up though

Ircher is widely scumread. It seems bizarre to me that one of your thoughts upon reading my readslist is such an absurdly Nero-centric take

Is vivax such a wildly uncommon scumread at this point in the game that something weird is going on if I scumread these 2 people, and also 2 other people, and have Nero low down in my town pile?

You have claimed the same thought process as Nero here. It makes sense as to why it would come from him but since you've agreed with him I'd like you to be the one to explain your working

I'd accept it if you explained any of your own working, a 'gut take' is surely a simple read on what's happening. I'm either scum pushing town!Ircher, or town pushing town, or town pushing scum. Unless you want to argue that we're both scum?

So, does that mean you think Nero has articulated the reads better and it's weird that I am just following them, or is your point entirely designed to try and put things back on me to distract from how your reasoning in agreeing with Nero didn't make sense from your point of view?

Nero shared more scumreads with you than I did, yes. But Ircher is more than just one read - they're the main wagon. So I'm still failing to see how your gut is reading the main event of this game so far, the voting.

Now have I unlocked your monologue cut-scene?

[furtiveglance]

i think jjh thought furtive meant in 633 that furtive also thought jjh was copying nero's reads while scumreading nero

however i think furtive was saying "you too?" as in he thought that jjh was copying furtive's reads while also scumreading furtive

Yes. I only noticed Nero's thing when he said it, I saw my name at the bottom with Ircher and also found it weird.

[furtiveglance]

If I was literally just misinterpreting you this whole time why didn't you correct this misinterpretation until someone gave you an out

I think I've been pretty explicit about how I have been interpreting it

Thanks for the out fire, you saved me from drowning

[furtiveglance]

I mean, this aside, it's still pretty scummy that you would immediately jump in and try to defend yourself with "But I can't be scum because I scumread Ircher" who might not even actually be scum

I was asking how your reads made sense, not defending myself. I still don't know what line you're pushing with this post. You can just call me scum no matter what I say if you want, and never explain your reads, I'm sure it'll go down well.

[furtiveglance]

I mean, this aside, it's still pretty scummy that you would immediately jump in and try to defend yourself with "But I can't be scum because I scumread Ircher" who might not even actually be scum

I was asking how your reads made sense, not defending myself. I still don't know what line you're pushing with this post. You can just call me scum no matter what I say if you want, and never explain your reads, I'm sure it'll go down well.

What do you think the gamestate is? Is Ircher being miseliminated or bussed? You're trying to have it both ways.

[furtiveglance]

I mean, this aside, it's still pretty scummy that you would immediately jump in and try to defend yourself with "But I can't be scum because I scumread Ircher" who might not even actually be scum

I was asking how your reads made sense, not defending myself. I still don't know what line you're pushing with this post. You can just call me scum no matter what I say if you want, and never explain your reads, I'm sure it'll go down well.

What do you think the gamestate is? Is Ircher being miseliminated or bussed? You're trying to have it both ways.

And if you just scumread me regardless of Ircher or anyone else, I deserve to know why.

[furtiveglance]

I mean, this aside, it's still pretty scummy that you would immediately jump in and try to defend yourself with "But I can't be scum because I scumread Ircher" who might not even actually be scum

I was asking how your reads made sense, not defending myself. I still don't know what line you're pushing with this post. You can just call me scum no matter what I say if you want, and never explain your reads, I'm sure it'll go down well.

What do you think the gamestate is? Is Ircher being miseliminated or bussed? You're trying to have it both ways.

I don't think you're getting that the answer is "I don't know yet"

And do you know why you scumread me? I'm 2nd last, out of 21.

[furtiveglance]

My gut reaction is that you have placed much higher value on broadcasting the fact that you have reads and making sure everyone else knows you have reads than I would expect of town

Ok. Thanks for actually answering my question. If you're talking about 120, 134, 143, it's deliberately performative. I wanted to interact with someone instead of just dumping some early

reads

down, which I had formed from

reading

the game for

reads

. Helped me form a

read

on Ydrasse, which is another

read

I now have. Hence the 'coy' little game around

reads

. Since 153, I've been really clear. The thing is, if you

read

550, my big list of

reads

, including the spoilered text, you'll understand why I have the

reads

I have. Did you?

Reads

[furtiveglance]

You hope others will townread you because of your reads, draw attention to them as a defence, and generally seem more preoccupied with ticking that "thing that town players do" box rather than using it as a tool to spur conversation and more accurately place people
At the base level, you appear to prioritise being townread over gaining information with which to eliminate scum.

This is definitely a hot scenario, and I wish I had a cool flavour name like 'Inspector Clipboard', but alas it wasn't to be.

I have some questions for you (which I think you will struggle to answer, so partly rhetorical):

What is missing from my ISO (non-reads content) that other players have?

When have I drawn attention to my reads as a defence this game?

How does one usually gain the information with which one eliminates scum?

[furtiveglance]

You hope others will townread you because of your reads, draw attention to them as a defence, and generally seem more preoccupied with ticking that "thing that town players do" box rather than using it as a tool to spur conversation and more accurately place people
At the base level, you appear to prioritise being townread over gaining information with which to eliminate scum.

This is definitely a hot scenario, and I wish I had a cool flavour name like 'Inspector Clipboard', but alas it wasn't to be.

I have some questions for you (which I think you will struggle to answer, so partly rhetorical):

What is missing from my ISO (non-reads content) that other players have?

When have I drawn attention to my reads as a defence this game?

How does one usually gain the information with which one eliminates scum?

1: That's a bit of an arbitrary one. Can't really answer that in a meaningful way.
2. It's kinda my main take out of that argument we had where we both missed each other's points. Your scumread of Ircher is at the crux of that argument no matter how your shake it.
3. We're doing it right now. This kind of conversation. Observation is no replacement for getting stuck right into it

1. Exactly, my point is proven.
2. I already stated this and it looks like you disagreed rather than missing it: I was not using scumreading Ircher to defend myself, I was questioning (not even attacking) your confused gut (which is a metaphor for a strong, powerful feeling).
3. Good point - arguing does have value in mafia, but so does making clear where your thoughts are. Maybe your philosophy is that reads are redundant, mine isn't.

[furtiveglance]

I'm guessing you'll push back on point 2, but I've said all there is to say on it.

[furtiveglance]

Ah, so to clarify, my "gut" is a remnant of a very lazy playstyle I used for a period that I've integrated into my current playstyle. It's my thoughts on the matter without tangibly putting those thoughts into words. Near enough my subconscious

Ok, this is slightly confusing.

[furtiveglance]

Regardless of how I'm reading you, you seem like a good person to bounce things off of. What do you think of malakittens

Glad you asked, I was about to give some other reads on players I didn't mention in that readslist (probably to your ire). I have Malakittens as a scumlean, along with Ausuka. As for Klick, that's a townlean. I know Mala likes a meme as either alignment, but when they get into a game as town they go beyond memes into quite heavy pushing of scumreads (see Newbie 2093 in which they got their paws into me). Some of the capsing early on felt quite easy to do as mafia.

I know you didn't ask but:

Ausuka: Seems very different to Mini Normal 2279 in which they were my first townread and pretty much a UTR from the get go. Could be due to RVS wagon, larger game or anything else but notable.

More on Klick later I need to go but wanted to get this out in real time.

[furtiveglance]

Ausuka: Seems very different to Mini Normal 2279 in which they were my first townread and pretty much a UTR from the get go. Could be due to RVS wagon, larger game or anything else but notable.

I mean when Datisi bullied me into signing up for this game I agreed on the condition that I would RNG my reads so if anything I'd say I'm outperforming expectations here

(I am going to be playing intensely more relaxed in this game due to a combination of being busier and the size of this game I'm afraid! Although I'm also curious to see the advantages and disadvantages that come with not being mostly townread by people as well)

Advantages may be limited :/

[furtiveglance]

Oh I'm sure the disadvantages will outweigh the advantages but maybe people will be easier to read this way?? Who knows!

Do you have anything so far, or just chilling being disadvantaged?

[furtiveglance]

i don't really get the mindset behind "hammer or move on" followed by "i want to vote RCE but don't want to dampen ircher wagon"

can you explain that more

specifically about the "or move on"

Ircher looks like he might get eliminated here
I am satisfied with that outcome

It also looks possible that the wagon will dissolve and other wagons will form
I'm not as happy with that outcome because I think Ircher is a better elimination than we would likely get if things were to dissolve. But it is an acceptable outcome and one we can work to our advantage

What I DON'T want is 'let's leave Ircher at L-2 for a few days while we don't do other things and

then

get cold feet and vote elsewhere' (which does commonly happen)
Because the stagnation would kill momentum in what's currently an active and fun and highly-Klick-motivating game

Agree with Ircher vote, don't think it'll suddenly be hard to get them out unless someone really puts their foot in it.

[furtiveglance]

(To be clear I am not in a 100% caught up state and there are a lot of people I don't really have reads on but I can always RNG a readslist if people want that!)

No

[furtiveglance]

Also, I did confirm with the mod that there is guaranteed to be at least one VT in the game. I assume there is also more than one VT in the game, and guessing the ratio of PR to VT is probably pretty important. I was estimating somewhere around 2:1 to 1:1-- having too many VT's makes it trivially easy to keep productivity up. Since we need to average at least 75%, if we assume 2:1 PR:VT, the PR's would need to average around 62%, which honestly isn't bad.

The tricky thing is that hitting way too high is also pretty devastating for town because we lose a lot of power. So we should probably aim for no higher than 85%, which would require a PR average of 78%.

So my (almost) completely uninformed take is that most PR's should be producing between 62-78%. Since mastina is committed to 0 and is probably roughly 10% of town's PR's, shift that up 10% for today, so 68-86%.

For the record, I am also locktownning Something Smart for this post.

This is setup, maths and probability spec from someone who obviously loves this kind of thing. How is it town indicative?

[furtiveglance]

But anyway, Mastina declaring 0% is absolutely town indicative because no matter what- Mastina made that decision with thought behind it. Scum!Mastina avoids fakeclaims, especially in a situation like this where there's so many unknowns that could unravel it. And if Mastina was scum, declaring any percentage would be a fakeclaim that might become unraveled.

What about "uh yeah that was a bait guys I'm VT" in a couple days? Not that I'm saying this is definitely the most likely scenario...

[furtiveglance]

Klick: Townread
Anyway, here's another READ I HAD look at me guys I have reads. The original Mastina sus complete with meta dive (91) followed by turnaround in 115 looks like a real journey. I don't really agree with the crossing off method but it looks like something you could do in a large game to keep track of players. I like that they're towning fairly selectively and not just the top posters or players who might have thread influence. That's about it.

[furtiveglance]

What's paragon?

[furtiveglance]

I mean, I want to get as much possible right on day 1 because this is how I can maximise my influence on the game and increase the chances of a town win

It's less important in a large because I'm not so arrogant as to assume I'm just the automatic nightkill, but shit happens for sure when I put in the effort in a mini

Don't get too comfortable, I pencilled you in already

[furtiveglance]

more xp and I become a Jack of All Trades

[furtiveglance]

probably the sus spot

[furtiveglance]

This is setup, maths and probability spec from someone who obviously loves this kind of thing. How is it town indicative?

Because it reveals Something_Smart as town in a way that I'd prefer to not elaborate on. He's locktown; the why he's locktown for that is not something I want to share.

That helps me :thumbs up:

[furtiveglance]

Wit that said, Ircher is the type of scum that’s willing to take a bullet for a partner. So I don’t think Titus’ argument that Irchers wagon sprung up to divert from someone else is merit-less.

You think Ircher deliberately baited a wagon on himself? How?

Unrelated slightly but this reminds of the time in an IRL game this mafia vigilante (maf with extra kill) smoked themself and it completely messed with everyone's setup spec. Semi-open type of thing, we knew what powers were in but not which alignments were which powers.

Anyway, just conspiracy level stuff.

[furtiveglance]

I'm thinking Ausuka, BBT, Ircher, Malakittens, Roden and Something_Smart have got a few mafia.

[furtiveglance]

Just some more reads that I had guys, and I'd really like to impress upon you all that I have them. Reads, that is.

[furtiveglance]

Ignored sad goodnight

[furtiveglance]

Hammer Ircher!

[furtiveglance]

Can you give me this weekend including monday without hammering Ircher- then we can hammer Ircher?!

I'd feel pretty hard done by if the night phase took up all the time I can be super productive and then the day phase started with the work week

Monday it is. Ircher's name engraved into the stone.

[furtiveglance]

Hammer Ircher!

am happy to soon, we have plenty of time and i don't think this is the type of slot that's going to talk their way out of the wagon shifting elsewhere, given what we've seen so far from Ircher's posting

are you in a hurry for some reason?

Aren't you also looking forward to night?

[furtiveglance]

Super OP game-breaking night action here I come

[furtiveglance]

Aren't you also looking forward to night?

i actually don't really like night phase in general lol

i also think there's more to get through before we end the day so

Yeah true.

[furtiveglance]

I mean there's always more to get through if you want to get through more. What specifically do you want to get through?

[furtiveglance]

roden needs to play the game

blue needs to play the game

andre needs to play the game

jjh wants to do things

i would like to see what develops between klick/rc

does S_S have input or is he just gonna chill while this goes through? same with ydrasse

i'd like to know where nero's heads at given the whole thing about ircher's wagon being too fast to hit L-1 on p14. has that changed now that things developed or is the sentiment still the same?

obviously there comes a point where waiting is just diminishing returns but i thiink we're ok to sit on this for a bit

I'd say Andresmvb has played the game a bit, pushing Ydrasse.

[furtiveglance]

What does balsamic mean? Google doesn't know.

[furtiveglance]

you should claim ircher

I'm a social media influencer. I am able to post public messages through the moderator using 20% productivity points.

Do it now go

[furtiveglance]

It's a night action.

pen
sieve

[furtiveglance]

you should claim ircher

I'm a social media influencer. I am able to post public messages through the moderator using 20% productivity points.

It sounds like a crier. I mean it's only useful if Datisi confirms that the message comes from a town, otherwise it sucks.

[furtiveglance]

The message is anonymous and confirmed not to have come from the moderator. Of course, it's not really anonymous anymore now that I've claimed.

It doesn't reveal your alignment then. I feel like if that's the case, it has literally zero value. On mafia.gg there's a Crier which is confirmed to be town.

[furtiveglance]

The message is anonymous and confirmed not to have come from the moderator. Of course, it's not really anonymous anymore now that I've claimed.

It doesn't reveal your alignment then. I feel like if that's the case, it has literally zero value. On mafia.gg there's a Crier which is confirmed to be town.

I wasn't planning on using it, but it has situational value depending on the setup.

You think it has no value in this setup, and hadn't planned to use it. Did you not think about using it as a basis for a claim?

[furtiveglance]

It's cost benefit analysis. We need to average 75-80% productivity. If I spend 20% just to prove a claim, that's rather a waste.

Yeah, it also doesn't prove a claim.

[furtiveglance]

top

[furtiveglance]

Is Social Media Influencer considered positively in today's society? I don't think it is, can definitely see Datisi giving mafia this flavour. But can also see them giving it to town.

[furtiveglance]

The message is anonymous and confirmed not to have come from the moderator. Of course, it's not really anonymous anymore now that I've claimed.

It doesn't reveal your alignment then. I feel like if that's the case, it has literally zero value. On mafia.gg there's a Crier which is confirmed to be town.

I wasn't planning on using it, but it has situational value depending on the setup.

You think it has no value in this setup, and hadn't planned to use it. Did you not think about using it as a basis for a claim?

It's cost benefit analysis. We need to average 75-80% productivity. If I spend 20% just to prove a claim, that's rather a waste.

Yeah, it also doesn't prove a claim.

I'm not sure what you're driving at here. You seem to be agreeing with me yet simultaneously implying that my planned course of action was bad.

Yeah, not really driving at something, just digesting.

[furtiveglance]

Initial reaction is that this very underwhelming claim is ironically quite explosive. All of Ircher's play is scum, but this claim seems like a potentially plausible town role in a setup which probably has a few weak town PRs. And the flavour and mechanic go well together.

[furtiveglance]

Initial reaction is that this very underwhelming claim is ironically quite explosive. All of Ircher's play is scum, but this claim seems like a potentially plausible town role in a setup which probably has a few weak town PRs. And the flavour and mechanic go well together.

Yeah that's what they thought when I used it in warhammer mash and saved myself for a while, before I was made to do the bullet dance and got santygross'd after pretending to be ITA immune

Ask Ydrasse

Link the game, it won't help me with this but it'll be fun to see you as scum

[furtiveglance]

I don't want to pivot off Ircher either. Having agreed that his claimed role is completely useless in this game, he is either a de facto VT or mafia. I think from the way he's played that a mafia flip is more likely, and in that case we would know that the scumteam has 4. It also spews quite a few players town in my eyes but I won't say which ones now (it's fairly obvious anyway).

A town flip is never good, but we wouldn't be losing a useful ability and I think the fallout from an Ircher town flip would probably shake up everyone's reads (especially townreads being run back) in a way that would be healthy for the gamestate.

[furtiveglance]

Hi

[furtiveglance]

I was refreshing with excitement

[furtiveglance]

I don't like either of those votes

[furtiveglance]

I don't give a rat's ass about 5 scum or 4 scum.

What I do care about is Ircher freezing. Ircher's last log in was today this morning after he was first asked about the question regarding his assumptions. While it may not be a slip, the freezing doesn't look good.

Idk if Titus is gonna rat out her scumbuddy like this

[furtiveglance]

I read Squid Game recently so that's partly why I thought 16/5 is normal for these large games. As for Ircher 'freezing', they probably just haven't been on, I don't want to smoke them without letting them defend.

Their profile has their last log in time.

And this

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: FG

Why are you doing scummy first day opening posts

Why not. I forgot to say, massive RIP to everyone who died :/

[furtiveglance]

vote count 1.01

with 21 votes in play, it takes 11 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-09-29 01:45:00).

firing

Ausuka [5]:

Ircher, fireisredsir, Uncrowned, Ydrasse, BlueBloodedToffee

Ydrasse [4]:

Roden, Andresvmb, jjh927, RCEnigma

Ircher [3]:

mastina, petapan, Lukewarm

mastina [3]:

Nero Cain, Malakittens, Klick

Lukewarm [1]:

Vivax

Something_Smart [1]:

PenguinPower

not voting [4]:

Ausuka, furtiveglance, Titus, Something_Smart

mod notes

~ everyone has confirmed!
~ i am using a vote counter, let me know if there are any mistakes.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

flavour

now playing...
♫

Toše Proeski - Ledena

♫
▶ ❚❚ ───────────────●──────────────  2:30 / 4:46

I like Ydrasse as town based on how things have progressed so far. Not really seeing the ausuka wagon. Not feeling mastina, even if I disagree on strategy.

VOTE: Ircher

i mean now we play the game

what's more likely

mr. ircher just guessed the ratio or he's a very informed doggo

Why suppose he's right?

Dude's not town but I hate slip arguments

Specifically I'd like titus to elaborate on why she thought Ircher is scum without buying into the TMI argument - she votes him without really pushing there and then says 'dude's not town'

Her progression around ircher and linking him with SS just feels sort of awkward, imo

Agree to disagree then

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: FG

Why are you doing scummy first day opening posts

I am treating furtive Glace as confirmed town through unless he is like alive in elo personally.

Thanks

buddy

, you too!

[furtiveglance]

Obligatory but useless NKA: I was expecting JJH/Lukewarm/Mastina to die last night. The BBT kill is the weirdest. Petapan shaded Vivax quite a bit before they died, more than they shaded Titus I think.

Current reads (basically end of D1 + Ircher scum): Ausuka has gone up a bit, partly for being a leading wagon, not much change otherwise apart from Vivax going down. I can see Klick/RC being T/T, not voting there today anyway. I'd like a vote on Malakittens, Something_Smart, Roden, or Vivax.

[furtiveglance]

I see why Yume/Ircher using the numbers so

accurately

Is this a 2 for 1, tmi special?

VOTE: vivax

big if true

[furtiveglance]

I was expecting JJH/Lukewarm/Mastina to die last night

were you expecting 3 kills or do you mean you expected [some amount of people] in that group to die?

The latter, I was probably expecting 2 kills.

[furtiveglance]

I was gonna vote peta though so I guess I can't be that mad.

Why

[furtiveglance]

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

Pray continue....

[furtiveglance]

In the Titus/Vivax binary, then:

VOTE: Vivax

[furtiveglance]

vote count 1.06

with 21 votes in play, it takes 11 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-09-29 01:45:00).

firing

Ircher [9]:

mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, furtiveglance, Ausuka, RCEnigma, Klick, BlueBloodedToffee, Vivax

Ydrasse [4]:

Roden, Andresvmb, PenguinPower, Nero Cain

Titus [3]:

petapan, Malakittens, fireisredsir

petapan [1]:

Something_Smart

Vivax [1]:

Ircher

Roden [1]:

Uncrowned

Malakittens [1]:

jjh927

not voting [1]:

Ydrasse

mod notes

~ i am using a vote counter, let me know if there are any mistakes.
~ this is a mod note.

flavour

flavour

now playing...
♫

Magazin - Oko moje sanjivo

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▶ ❚❚ ●─────────────────────────────  0:01 / 3:04

VOTE: Ydrasse

This reads like a spite-spew btw and looks bad for Yd

This didn't really sit right with me at the time

[furtiveglance]

Wow, that's really annoying. I targeted Peta last night.

Pray continue....

I'm a Mailman with a modifier. I sent him a message asking for advice on how to effectively play my role, and let him know I chose him since I believed he would be the most likely person to give solid advice regardless of his own alignment or his read on me.

Mailman?

[furtiveglance]

hi uh I would like to as a PSA reminder that using full productivity is an useful night action and something every PR should consider especially if they kinda suck thanks

Mailman does seem insanely useless.....Roden, why bother?

[furtiveglance]

Andres, has your read on Ydrasse changed?

[furtiveglance]

Andres, has your read on Ydrasse changed?

Yeah I called them Town before the day ended yesterday.

Ok I forgot.

[furtiveglance]

Vivax:
1.

Spoiler:

The BBT kill is the weirdest

.

Tell me more about the why of that one please, while I keep reading.

VOTE: FurtiveGlance

Yeah you got me, as mafia I smoked Nero and Petapan but not BBT, so it was confusing to see his name on the deadlist. As a man with zero impulse control I simply had to remark on this, so I awkwardly called it weird. You're not allowed to claim mafia with other people but if hypothetically Fireisredsir was mafia with me, do you really think we'd both spot the kill we didn't do with our insane deduction skills and just go "yeah, that wasn't us" at the same time? The serious answer to this is that BBT was doing nothing and a POE scumread for literally everyone in the game, not the usual nightkill profile.

1.1

Spoiler:

But scum seeing BBT play like that could assume he was hiding a good PR

I mean potentially, this thought didn't enter my mind, BBT was inactive as VT last Newbie we played together.

2.

Spoiler:

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

@Vivax would you argue Scum makes this post? Like why the vote there?

Why shouldn't scum make that post or vote Ircher?
Titus argued that Ircher was frozen, FG said Ircher wasn't on, then voted him anyway.

Correction: I voted Ircher in 198. I said Ircher wasn't on in 319.

2.1

Spoiler:

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

Ircher hasn't been on since this. It totally assumes 17/4 whereas I assumed 16/5 like other large games I've seen.

Ok....does the setup state how many scum and I missed it?

No, the setup states we don't know. The point is Ircher could be doing a sus TMI scum slip!

We shouldn't fire Ydrasse, I think they're an Employee. I'll vote Ircher for now but I might unvote if they come on and explain why they thought 17/4.

VOTE: Ircher

Uncrowned I voted someone.

Yeah cause when you see TMI as town you announce you‘re going to unvote if it‘s explained
As if burying Ircher at 9/11 votes could be called an interrogation

Yeah, if Ircher had given a list of 17/4 games either that he'd played in or just large theme games he'd spectated and it turned out 17/4 was the norm not 16/5, then I would have considered unvoting. But his return to the game was really lacklustre, it didn't seem proportionate to being wagoned up so hard. I don't know if you're calling me the 9/11 'burier', but I was actually the 4th 'burier' out of 11. If you mean that I was 'interrogating' Ircher in 960 and below when he was on 9/11 votes, it wasn't really intended as interrogation, just some intensive questioning.

3.

Spoiler:

I‘m starting to crawl out of my FG tunnel, maybe. After having one of my mystical phases yet again (quite a heated one)

Can probably interpret the very aggressive defenses of his town status as some sort of scum trying hard to look right on my wrong guess.
Contemplating if Ydrasse gets the spot for that vote by Ircher, or S_S if I retract the TR after yet another FG def.

But damn, reading too much really does drive you nuts at times when you don‘t dismiss everything as superstition.
Turns you into some kind of incandescent anomaly, or a puddle. Funny how the mind works. I‘ll still take a concept of outer divinity over IT when it‘s the same recurring theme for millennia. Why does it seem to be so hard coded into us you think? And it‘s quite capable at times.

Is this just about Lukewarm or are you scumreading Andres or Mastina?

BBT does make more sense as a Vig shot, and no one else is claiming it. There's a possibility that scum!Vivax decided to smoke BBT to set up a Vig claim, but that just seems dumb. To that end, I'll shift my vote.

UNVOTE: Vivax

[furtiveglance]

shift it to who tho

im thinking tho

[furtiveglance]

I don't really get why Roden would claim at daystart, as either alignment. The town!Roden idea that petapan could back his claim doesn't make a lot of sense because the message doesn't reveal alignment, and also Roden could just target someone else on another night. But scum!Roden has no need to claim frame 1 either, if anything it just gets him a lot of attention.

[furtiveglance]

I'm between Malakittens and Something_Smart for a vote destination.

[furtiveglance]

I was gonna vote peta though so I guess I can't be that mad.

This is sus

VOTE: Something_Smart

[furtiveglance]

To be clear, mastina:

As long as we achieve 1,275 points out of 1,700 points each day, we will be fine. If mastina is setting hers to 0%, then we need to average 80 points per player to avoid the extra night kills.

Is this just you guessing that this game is a 17:4, or did I miss that info somewhere, or?

This is the primary reason I think Luke can't be scum.
I'd love to see a convincing perspective on why Luke actively decides to make this post as scum. Because otherwise, I agree that he's a pretty simple choice for PoE.

This is an underrated point. Lukewarm town for me as well, why start a wagon on your buddy out of nowhere?

[furtiveglance]

earlier i thought vivax could be scum TMIing that the BBT kill was a vig kill, since he didnt seem to understand that me/furtive were talking from the perspective of thinking "this is a weird kill for mafia to make"

but in addition to thinking his play just feels like his towngame, i think its more likely that he is actually just a vig TMIing that BBT kill was a vig kill

Hard disagree, to me both Peta and Nero were weird kills. Peta makes sense off the info Lukewarm gave, and Nero...idk, maybe him hinting he had some kind of scavenger role?
But scum seeing BBT play like that could assume he was hiding a good PR, and so he did. So why should it be weird, unless you knew the kills?

Kinda surprised Uncrowned isn't dead tbh, gave you quite a bit of fire

(Fire is probably scum #2, with Roden.)

I can't spot anything scummy about Roden, it's a placid tone

I can.

Aside from play, the claim is a scumclaim.

Mastina, I'm struggling to think of how this could be the case. I would say don't worry about sharing your argument, if Ircher's setup speculation was real then there are only 3 mafia left, I don't think scum fakeclaiming in future is a massive problem.

[furtiveglance]

This is sus

Why

It's talking about a nightkill in a conversational way, and the obvious implication is that you would never nightkill Petapan because you were about to vote them. It's you giving yourself towncred and broadcasting it, like Obama with the medal.

[furtiveglance]

Can you just tell me what you're actually accusing me of here

Because right now you're having a conversation but it's not with me

She is saying that your role is bad, and any townie would have chosen to not use their ability.

And since you used your ability, you must be scum.

Why...do I bring up my role or how useless it is then? Like, willingly, as scum, unprompted?

Ok but why did you bring it up?

[furtiveglance]

It's talking about a nightkill in a conversational way, and the obvious implication is that you would never nightkill Petapan because you were about to vote them. It's you giving yourself towncred and broadcasting it, like Obama with the medal.

Sure, that's why I might do it as scum. Why do you think I wouldn't be likely to do it as town? (Also, don't you think I would find that rather heavy-handed, as I voted peta yesterday but didn't actually express any scumread of him?)

I guess you could do it as town. Yeah it would be sort of heavy-handed as mafia. But neither of these things indicate that you're town more than being mafia. Why do you keep lowering the bar for yourself by saying your towngame is super neutral and pedestrian? I mean posts like 205 and 1212. (I thought there were more like this in your ISO but couldn't find any). You've given a few reads but haven't been the most gung-ho.

Talk more about
1) your read on Mastina
2) Scumpool/likely vote destination today

[furtiveglance]

Can you just tell me what you're actually accusing me of here

Because right now you're having a conversation but it's not with me

She is saying that your role is bad, and any townie would have chosen to not use their ability.

And since you used your ability, you must be scum.

Why...do I bring up my role or how useless it is then? Like, willingly, as scum, unprompted?

Ok but why did you bring it up?

Because I targeted someone who died and you literally asked me to clarify?

I asked you to clarify, after you already let the cat out of the bag. That doesn't mean I asked you whether or not you had a cat, and to release it if you did have one. Were you planning on Petapan backing you up? Why should they, your role could be mafia.

[furtiveglance]

Can you just tell me what you're actually accusing me of here

Because right now you're having a conversation but it's not with me

She is saying that your role is bad, and any townie would have chosen to not use their ability.

And since you used your ability, you must be scum.

Why...do I bring up my role or how useless it is then? Like, willingly, as scum, unprompted?

Ok but why did you bring it up?

Because I targeted someone who died and you literally asked me to clarify?

I asked you to clarify, after you already let the cat out of the bag. That doesn't mean I asked you whether or not you had a cat, and to release it if you did have one. Were you planning on Petapan backing you up? Why should they, your role could be mafia.

Why would I think Peta would back me up??

I thought the implication was that you anticipated some pressure today, saw that the other player who could attest to your role was dead and decided to claim your role.

[furtiveglance]

Okay, I think that I am here (Tiers unsorted)

Ausuka
furtiveglance
Roden
Vivax
Klick
fireisredsir
Ydrasse
Andresvmb
Malakittens

---

Uncrowned
jjh927
Something_Smart
PenguinPower

---

RCEnigma

Titus
mastina

I think that Mastina is actually always scum here, but I also don't think that anyone is going to consider voting her prior to her finishing her day 4 schtick

Nice area tag, I should use that. A few Qs, Why Malakittens high? Why Uncrowned untowned? JJH posted enough for a read on D1, a townread I think, but at least an alignment read. And lastly.... I could vote Mastina today, if she continues being so opaque.

[furtiveglance]

If I got seen by a Tracker or Watcher it's a better play for town to just say I targeted someone who died than to let a town PR potentially out themself with a false guilty

I think Roden is town, I see the reason for claiming now.

[furtiveglance]

Mastina, I'm struggling to think of how this could be the case. I would say don't worry about sharing your argument, if Ircher's setup speculation was real then there are only 3 mafia left, I don't think scum fakeclaiming in future is a massive problem.

Why catch only two scum fakeclaiming when you can catch three or four by not revealing how they're fucking up their fakeclaims?

Not all scum have to fakeclaim

[furtiveglance]

I like wagon momentum, but I was unsure when I voted S_S, and I'm still unsure. I'm having second thoughts

[furtiveglance]

Andresmvb

Spoiler:

Andres is clean. 1049 is a pretty town post, but just check the ISO and you'll see plenty of town posting. Progression on Ydrasse and whiplash after Vivax claim looks natural (recalibrating reads etc). I will be truly wowed if Andres is mafia, it's nearly inconceivable to me at this point.

Lukewarm

Spoiler:

It's been mentioned but the interaction with Ircher should be seen as clearing. No need to overthink it.

jjh927

Spoiler:

On D1 I found JJH one of the more interesting players in the game, and ended up at a townread. Since D2 started it's been mostly mech, which is boring. Interaction with Ircher doesn't really look paired, and I think the townread on Titus is +town after D1 when Titus was a potential wagon (not extremely likely though). I'd like to see where JJH ends up voting today, I might join if it's not me!

Klick

Spoiler:

I don't usually consider reasonable/sensible to be a towntell but Klick was like this as town in Open 859. I was initially sceptical of the crossing off thing but 1210 looks somewhat close to my own thoughts. I think 694 seems fairly towny as well.

Roden

Spoiler:

I've liked Roden's D2 more than his D1. Datisi definitely would include a 'Flirt' role, but it could easily be mafia. I just think if there are only 4 in the scumteam why hand them 2 useless abilities? Too weak. I also liked Roden's pushback on Ausuka, I think it looked towny. Roden's a townlean for me, I don't like some of his voters.

Titus

Spoiler:

Waiting for their catch up with interest, but I still think the way they pushed Ircher wasn't likely to be a bus. Early game I liked the way they made reads quite openly. Townlean.

Fireisredsir

Spoiler:

I mentioned in 562 I had trouble reading Fire in a previous game. I still agree with most of what I said in that post. Voting is definitely bad, especially 591 which puts emphasis on not opposing Ircher's elimination, yet votes a counter wagon. And now today Fire is still on Titus. I'm not a complete robot in terms of wagon analysis but I do think being a CW to scum should give you some towncred. I just haven't seen any acknowledgement of the Ircher scum flip and how that's afffected Fire's reads. However, tonally I'm townleaning Fire, the rambling/stream-of-consciousness nature of posts is similar to the Turing Test like I said earlier. It's a confusing one, voting is scum but posting town.

Mastina

Spoiler:

One big problem with this ISO is that the scumreads in 1106 (Roden, Lukewarm, Fire) are completely identical to the reads given on pages 1 and 2 (the only other scumread is Ircher). The other big problem is that Mastina's entire gameview seems to be based on 'I can't say rn, but I'm sure'. I'm kind of inferring a Masonry with JJH (sorry if this shouldn't be shared publicly, but I'm not reading hard between the lines here), and if that isn't the case then scum equity obviously is there, just for the level of confidence in reads. As ever this kind of loud, confident player is difficult to read. I do get the feeling Mastina will be sorted with time however, so I'm not too worried. For now, it's a weak townlean just for calling Ircher scum so early.

Something_Smart

Spoiler:

I liked the way they engaged with my vote on them. Pretty matter of fact, and made a couple of good points. I also think Mastina's locktown on them should be taken into account as it's not a scum/scum interaction, and if town Mastina could be right. I'm not saying a scum flip is impossible, but no longer feeling the vote.

PenguinPower

Spoiler:

I spectated a couple of PP's towngames and saw somewhat understated townplay, but this is taking the biscuit even for that standard. Andres has a point about the early wagons. Basically could be scum, only the vote on S_S is stopping me from voting PP.

Ausuka

Spoiler:

I've felt since early on this game that Ausuka has upped the meme/openwolf/casual posting style compared to Mini Normal 2279, and 534 just feels like a get-out clause. Yeah they said busy IRL but the post count isn't the difference (or not what I'm noticing anyway). 1012 bringing Petapan's voice to the fore could possibly explain that kill i.e. framekill Titus. 1033 is prescient but possible to speculate as town. 1281 et al struck me as LAMIST recently, and I do think Roden correctly finds Ausuka guilty of inconsistency regarding him and Mastina. Scumlean

Malakittens

Spoiler:

Leaning scum here. Voting D1 is bad (not Ircher), and 377 looks weird to an apparent scumread. I can see a bit of insecurity in 1017, like they need to enter pushing someone. Just haven't seen anything towny, shocked by the townreads from Klick and Lukewarm.

RCEnigma

Spoiler:

I've played in 2 Newbie games with scum!RC, never with town!RC I don't think. Pretty similar style to this game both times. I was townreading the early posting but it's dropped off since, and after Klick became more townread and RC dropped their beef he's looked a little apathetic(?) - see 1160. Definitely could be scum, and I'd like to see a wagon on RC soon.

VOTE: RCEnigma

[furtiveglance]

I like wagon momentum, but I was unsure when I voted S_S, and I'm still unsure. I'm having second thoughts

go on and unvote.

i deserve to be the first voter. it's as the world intended but for the bork.

The bork - is that some kind of listmod rivalry?

[furtiveglance]

Andresmvb

Spoiler:

Andres is clean. 1049 is a pretty town post, but just check the ISO and you'll see plenty of town posting. Progression on Ydrasse and whiplash after Vivax claim looks natural (recalibrating reads etc). I will be truly wowed if Andres is mafia, it's nearly inconceivable to me at this point.

Uncrowned

Spoiler:

You dropped this my King :holds up crown: Really town, good reads, good questions. I don't usually like questions but the ones they ask seem pertinent and relevant. Won't change my mind for a while.

Lukewarm

Spoiler:

It's been mentioned but the interaction with Ircher should be seen as clearing. No need to overthink it.

Vivax

Spoiler:

There is a world in which Vivax smoked BBT as mafia to set up his vig claim, but it's not really worth entertaining at the moment and I think vig makes more sense. I wish his posts were more straightforward.

jjh927

Spoiler:

On D1 I found JJH one of the more interesting players in the game, and ended up at a townread. Since D2 started it's been mostly mech, which is boring. Interaction with Ircher doesn't really look paired, and I think the townread on Titus is +town after D1 when Titus was a potential wagon (not extremely likely though). I'd like to see where JJH ends up voting today, I might join if it's not me!

Klick

Spoiler:

I don't usually consider reasonable/sensible to be a towntell but Klick was like this as town in Open 859. I was initially sceptical of the crossing off thing but 1210 looks somewhat close to my own thoughts. I think 694 seems fairly towny as well.

Roden

Spoiler:

I've liked Roden's D2 more than his D1. Datisi definitely would include a 'Flirt' role, but it could easily be mafia. I just think if there are only 4 in the scumteam why hand them 2 useless abilities? Too weak. I also liked Roden's pushback on Ausuka, I think it looked towny. Roden's a townlean for me, I don't like some of his voters.

Titus

Spoiler:

Waiting for their catch up with interest, but I still think the way they pushed Ircher wasn't likely to be a bus. Early game I liked the way they made reads quite openly. Townlean.

Ydrasse

Spoiler:

I'm townleaning Ydrasse based on tone, but not as strongly as other people are. I don't think someone with this posting style ever deserves townlock status. Definitely one I could revise as the game continues.

Fireisredsir

Spoiler:

I mentioned in 562 I had trouble reading Fire in a previous game. I still agree with most of what I said in that post. Voting is definitely bad, especially 591 which puts emphasis on not opposing Ircher's elimination, yet votes a counter wagon. And now today Fire is still on Titus. I'm not a complete robot in terms of wagon analysis but I do think being a CW to scum should give you some towncred. I just haven't seen any acknowledgement of the Ircher scum flip and how that's afffected Fire's reads. However, tonally I'm townleaning Fire, the rambling/stream-of-consciousness nature of posts is similar to the Turing Test like I said earlier. It's a confusing one, voting is scum but posting town.

Mastina

Spoiler:

One big problem with this ISO is that the scumreads in 1106 (Roden, Lukewarm, Fire) are completely identical to the reads given on pages 1 and 2 (the only other scumread is Ircher). The other big problem is that Mastina's entire gameview seems to be based on 'I can't say rn, but I'm sure'. I'm kind of inferring a Masonry with JJH (sorry if this shouldn't be shared publicly, but I'm not reading hard between the lines here), and if that isn't the case then scum equity obviously is there, just for the level of confidence in reads. As ever this kind of loud, confident player is difficult to read. I do get the feeling Mastina will be sorted with time however, so I'm not too worried. For now, it's a weak townlean just for calling Ircher scum so early.

Something_Smart

Spoiler:

I liked the way they engaged with my vote on them. Pretty matter of fact, and made a couple of good points. I also think Mastina's locktown on them should be taken into account as it's not a scum/scum interaction, and if town Mastina could be right. I'm not saying a scum flip is impossible, but no longer feeling the vote.

PenguinPower

Spoiler:

I spectated a couple of PP's towngames and saw somewhat understated townplay, but this is taking the biscuit even for that standard. Andres has a point about the early wagons. Basically could be scum, only the vote on S_S is stopping me from voting PP.

Ausuka

Spoiler:

I've felt since early on this game that Ausuka has upped the meme/openwolf/casual posting style compared to Mini Normal 2279, and 534 just feels like a get-out clause. Yeah they said busy IRL but the post count isn't the difference (or not what I'm noticing anyway). 1012 bringing Petapan's voice to the fore could possibly explain that kill i.e. framekill Titus. 1033 is prescient but possible to speculate as town. 1281 et al struck me as LAMIST recently, and I do think Roden correctly finds Ausuka guilty of inconsistency regarding him and Mastina. Scumlean

Malakittens

Spoiler:

Leaning scum here. Voting D1 is bad (not Ircher), and 377 looks weird to an apparent scumread. I can see a bit of insecurity in 1017, like they need to enter pushing someone. Just haven't seen anything towny, shocked by the townreads from Klick and Lukewarm.

RCEnigma

Spoiler:

I've played in 2 Newbie games with scum!RC, never with town!RC I don't think. Pretty similar style to this game both times. I was townreading the early posting but it's dropped off since, and after Klick became more townread and RC dropped their beef he's looked a little apathetic(?) - see 1160. Definitely could be scum, and I'd like to see a wagon on RC soon.

VOTE: RCEnigma

I forgot about Uncrowned, Vivax and Ydrasse so I'll add them in now!

[furtiveglance]

Like in what way does being busier not play into a casual playing style

That idea just doesn't make sense

You've been on though, and I haven't townread your posting.

[furtiveglance]

Like in what way does being busier not play into a casual playing style

That idea just doesn't make sense

Andresmvb

Spoiler:

Andres is clean. 1049 is a pretty town post, but just check the ISO and you'll see plenty of town posting. Progression on Ydrasse and whiplash after Vivax claim looks natural (recalibrating reads etc). I will be truly wowed if Andres is mafia, it's nearly inconceivable to me at this point.

Uncrowned

Spoiler:

You dropped this my King :holds up crown: Really town, good reads, good questions. I don't usually like questions but the ones they ask seem pertinent and relevant. Won't change my mind for a while.

Lukewarm

Spoiler:

It's been mentioned but the interaction with Ircher should be seen as clearing. No need to overthink it.

Vivax

Spoiler:

There is a world in which Vivax smoked BBT as mafia to set up his vig claim, but it's not really worth entertaining at the moment and I think vig makes more sense. I wish his posts were more straightforward.

jjh927

Spoiler:

On D1 I found JJH one of the more interesting players in the game, and ended up at a townread. Since D2 started it's been mostly mech, which is boring. Interaction with Ircher doesn't really look paired, and I think the townread on Titus is +town after D1 when Titus was a potential wagon (not extremely likely though). I'd like to see where JJH ends up voting today, I might join if it's not me!

Klick

Spoiler:

I don't usually consider reasonable/sensible to be a towntell but Klick was like this as town in Open 859. I was initially sceptical of the crossing off thing but 1210 looks somewhat close to my own thoughts. I think 694 seems fairly towny as well.

Roden

Spoiler:

I've liked Roden's D2 more than his D1. Datisi definitely would include a 'Flirt' role, but it could easily be mafia. I just think if there are only 4 in the scumteam why hand them 2 useless abilities? Too weak. I also liked Roden's pushback on Ausuka, I think it looked towny. Roden's a townlean for me, I don't like some of his voters.

Titus

Spoiler:

Waiting for their catch up with interest, but I still think the way they pushed Ircher wasn't likely to be a bus. Early game I liked the way they made reads quite openly. Townlean.

Ydrasse

Spoiler:

I'm townleaning Ydrasse based on tone, but not as strongly as other people are. I don't think someone with this posting style ever deserves townlock status. Definitely one I could revise as the game continues.

Fireisredsir

Spoiler:

I mentioned in 562 I had trouble reading Fire in a previous game. I still agree with most of what I said in that post. Voting is definitely bad, especially 591 which puts emphasis on not opposing Ircher's elimination, yet votes a counter wagon. And now today Fire is still on Titus. I'm not a complete robot in terms of wagon analysis but I do think being a CW to scum should give you some towncred. I just haven't seen any acknowledgement of the Ircher scum flip and how that's afffected Fire's reads. However, tonally I'm townleaning Fire, the rambling/stream-of-consciousness nature of posts is similar to the Turing Test like I said earlier. It's a confusing one, voting is scum but posting town.

Mastina

Spoiler:

One big problem with this ISO is that the scumreads in 1106 (Roden, Lukewarm, Fire) are completely identical to the reads given on pages 1 and 2 (the only other scumread is Ircher). The other big problem is that Mastina's entire gameview seems to be based on 'I can't say rn, but I'm sure'. I'm kind of inferring a Masonry with JJH (sorry if this shouldn't be shared publicly, but I'm not reading hard between the lines here), and if that isn't the case then scum equity obviously is there, just for the level of confidence in reads. As ever this kind of loud, confident player is difficult to read. I do get the feeling Mastina will be sorted with time however, so I'm not too worried. For now, it's a weak townlean just for calling Ircher scum so early.

Something_Smart

Spoiler:

I liked the way they engaged with my vote on them. Pretty matter of fact, and made a couple of good points. I also think Mastina's locktown on them should be taken into account as it's not a scum/scum interaction, and if town Mastina could be right. I'm not saying a scum flip is impossible, but no longer feeling the vote.

PenguinPower

Spoiler:

I spectated a couple of PP's towngames and saw somewhat understated townplay, but this is taking the biscuit even for that standard. Andres has a point about the early wagons. Basically could be scum, only the vote on S_S is stopping me from voting PP.

Ausuka

Spoiler:

I've felt since early on this game that Ausuka has upped the meme/openwolf/casual posting style compared to Mini Normal 2279, and 534 just feels like a get-out clause. Yeah they said busy IRL but the post count isn't the difference (or not what I'm noticing anyway). 1012 bringing Petapan's voice to the fore could possibly explain that kill i.e. framekill Titus. 1033 is prescient but possible to speculate as town. 1281 et al struck me as LAMIST recently, and I do think Roden correctly finds Ausuka guilty of inconsistency regarding him and Mastina. Scumlean

Malakittens

Spoiler:

Leaning scum here. Voting D1 is bad (not Ircher), and 377 looks weird to an apparent scumread. I can see a bit of insecurity in 1017, like they need to enter pushing someone. Just haven't seen anything towny, shocked by the townreads from Klick and Lukewarm.

RCEnigma

Spoiler:

I've played in 2 Newbie games with scum!RC, never with town!RC I don't think. Pretty similar style to this game both times. I was townreading the early posting but it's dropped off since, and after Klick became more townread and RC dropped their beef he's looked a little apathetic(?) - see 1160. Definitely could be scum, and I'd like to see a wagon on RC soon.

VOTE: RCEnigma

I forgot about Uncrowned, Vivax and Ydrasse so I'll add them in now!

No? You didn‘t?

Don‘t really see the point of Ausuka using time constraint as an excuse. Looks more like unwillingness to play into the game, similar to BBT

I did forget, and I put them into the original post so they have a place in the list.

[furtiveglance]

534 uses the word "intentional". which means you had intent. going from that to "im busier and the game is bigger" doesn't feel consistent at all to me

I mean it is intentional. I am intentionally not putting as much time into mafia to fit my schedule better

mmm i dunno i just don't really buy that you phrase it that way if that's what you mean

like why be coy about it

Coy again, that's twice in one game!

Vivax join my RC wagon

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Lukewarm

meh
the tone is just off, isn‘t it supposed to be good?

You're not getting this one. Putting aside your own thoughts, surely the logic of leading on mafia granting players temporary immunity is a healthy one for a town win.

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Lukewarm

meh
the tone is just off, isn‘t it supposed to be good?

You're not getting this one. Putting aside your own thoughts, surely the logic of leading on mafia granting players temporary immunity is a healthy one for a town win.

not getting this one today I should say

[furtiveglance]

Why did you decide to use this role?

...What? Why does anyone ever use a role?

Could you elaborate on the full percentage costs including the extra for the reply thing?

I already did........

I don't see where you did this. Go into full % cost details, please, unless your whole ability is just 5%

I gave you all the information I'm gonna give. I don't understand why you're obsessing over this detail because it literally does not matter; I'm the flip today and that isn't gonna change if I say anything else about it, so you're gonna know the exact details soon enough. Why exactly do you need to know this now even though you know you're getting the info you want in 24 hours or so? How exactly does knowing this right now affect a single thing in this game or help you solve anything? Like you just keep pushing on this and talking mech and doing almost nothing else, stop using me as an excuse to avoid giving content.

Invitation to self pres on RC instead of eulogising yourself

[furtiveglance]

They won’t cuz they scumbutts

Serious read?

[furtiveglance]

Me trying to self preserve as town in Control literally lost town the game. I'm not doing that again.

I don't see how it could lose town the game here, at 17 players.

[furtiveglance]

pssh - who dreams of nashville?

hmm...debating whether or not i should townbin luke rn

Should call it a town basket, scum can go in the bin. Who is in your scumbin?

[furtiveglance]

i'm waffling on who is in the scum basket atm.

please ask again in 24 hours.

How about S_S? They keep arguing that this is their towngame, do you see a difference? Or just townreading other players?

[furtiveglance]

So how was your day? I was chasing two dogs of a friend who ran off through a swathe of forest and shouted around for them like a madman, before I got called and told they were right back at the starting point: The car.
Feels almost like this game.

I was volunteering in a cafe today. That's also like this game.

[furtiveglance]

Yeah, no. You're not going to change your mind about flipping me just because I tell you whatever it is you want to hear. You've done nothing to actually try to read me, and town!you would have no reason to believe I'm telling you the truth about anything regarding my role if you actually thought I was scum.

Latest feelings on Roden is that a lot of players are happy to vote someone else today/listen to his claim with an open mind. I don't get the refusal to share.

[furtiveglance]

I've run out of things to say, I guess I used up all my productivity already :/

[furtiveglance]

Can I borrow it?

I'd like to see more thoughts from you when you're able yeah

[furtiveglance]

I'll be back tomorrow or late tonight. Exhausting day and it's not half over.

I've run out of things to say, I guess I used up all my productivity already :/

You sound awfully similar
Still can't tell you everything from here

Yeah Titus is my hydra with Yume

[furtiveglance]

Yeah, no. You're not going to change your mind about flipping me just because I tell you whatever it is you want to hear. You've done nothing to actually try to read me, and town!you would have no reason to believe I'm telling you the truth about anything regarding my role if you actually thought I was scum.

Latest feelings on Roden is that a lot of players are happy to vote someone else today/listen to his claim with an open mind. I don't get the refusal to share.

This pretty clearly isn't the case? I'm at E-2 and even people who aren't on my wagon or town read me want me gone. No one's given a serious reason for scum reading me or explained their case. Several people voted me just because it was an easy vote and to get a full claim, then didn't unvote or try to solve else where after I full claimed. I literally did everything that was asked of me and it got me run up, it's kinda bonkers to think otherwise.

The most glaring point here is that people want me to claim productivity costs and that if I do they'll apparently town read me for it. If this was an actual townie thought process that made sense then there should be an outcry to make Mastina and Vivax claim their productivity costs, but there just hasn't been. I'm not claiming anything further for the same common sense reason that they won't.

People who get voted are pressured to claim - if you voted Mastina Lukewarm might join, there might be a bit of traction, but because people don't want to vote her there's no need to hear all the details. As for Vivax, if you want to push that Vivax killed BBT as mafia to set up a vig claim then go ahead, but Vivax isn't a suspect right now. I don't know who you're referring to when you say 'people', but JJH who was asking isn't voting you right now. I don't think claiming your full points stuff rn is going to harm your chances.

[furtiveglance]

That's the point I'm making though. If someone thinks I'm scum then asking for my productivity costs doesn't make sense, because from that person's perspective I'd just be lying. There's nothing to confirm I'm telling the truth and I'd have no reason not to just give the answer that people want to hear the most. That's why I don't believe anyone would suddenly town read me for it, it just isn't a real thought process.

It's moreso that refusing to claim certain things will make people who aren't scumreading/voting you do so. That's what JJH was implying

[furtiveglance]

Roden, is it 5% with a 0% modifier or does the base thing cost 0%?

[furtiveglance]

I don't want to a big post at the moment, my brief thoughts are that calling Lukewarm/Mastina T/T feels like a weirdly ambitious read to make but that's the most likely scenario for me. Andres/Uncrowned/Vivax are my most confident townreads.
Voting wise, I can sense I'm not getting my way with RC. I'd just like to queue up RC, Malakittens and Ausuka as wagons in the coming days. Maybe Penguin as well, we'll see.

[furtiveglance]

these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game

1428 still fairly accurate but Roden down a bit, I don't get the 0% thing.

As for 'convenient' reads, I didn't check my reads against the activity overview. You're right, I should have seen that my scumreads were less active which gives them a townpass, because we all know that scummy lurkers are always town in disguise. Just disregard everything then, I'll re-evaluate knowing that at least 2 mafia are within the top 5 posters.

On a serious note, yeah I don't think Ausuka/Malakittens/RC IS the scumteam, but they are all possible scum individually. I'm ok with the idea that I might be townreading/townleaning a mafia, that's pretty much always the case. I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored. And there's a big difference between 'the scumteam is not entirely lurkers' and 'Luke/Mastina/Roden/Titus' HAS TO have mafia in.

[furtiveglance]

I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored.

yeah but that just seems like town signalling (idk if that's the right phrase for it) instead of just, pushing the slots?

Yeah I feel a bit powerless about today's vote.

VOTE: Malakittens

[furtiveglance]

idle thought if roden flips town there’s mafia in the people who doubled down on him after he was being stubborn as an acceptable reason to kill him

no points for this idle thought, too level 1

[furtiveglance]

i’m universally tr and care not for petty things such as town points

Good, cos you don't get any

[furtiveglance]

these reads feel kinda convenient

do you have any actual thoughts on: roden, mastina, titus, luke

it can wait till later if you don't wanna post big but yeah, like i said, those names you've all listed feel v convenient and i highly doubt we have all scum in the less active half of the game

1428 still fairly accurate but Roden down a bit, I don't get the 0% thing.

As for 'convenient' reads, I didn't check my reads against the activity overview. You're right, I should have seen that my scumreads were less active which gives them a townpass, because we all know that scummy lurkers are always town in disguise. Just disregard everything then, I'll re-evaluate knowing that at least 2 mafia are within the top 5 posters.

On a serious note, yeah I don't think Ausuka/Malakittens/RC IS the scumteam, but they are all possible scum individually.

I'm ok with the idea that I might be townreading/townleaning a mafia, that's pretty much always the case. I'm not submitting a gamesolve here, I'm trying to flag up scummy players that are being ignored. And there's a big difference between 'the scumteam is not entirely lurkers' and 'Luke/Mastina/Roden/Titus' HAS TO have mafia in.

This sentence really rubs me the wrong way. Do you mean to say you weren't posting on a serious note before?
The entire post rubs me the wrong way

I said on a serious note because the previous paragraph was sarcastic. Maybe my powers of sarcasm failed me as well

[furtiveglance]

Why shouldn‘t they be scum together? Reads like you‘re afraid of suggesting that

Luke, mastina, Roden, Titus relevant to you how? Reads like some antispew list with a mafia or two mixed in that you were forced to mention.

Why shouldn't Ausuka/Mala/RC be the scumteam? I don't think they'd all flake in the same way, I don't think I've managed to hit the exact correct solution with my 3 lowest scumreads in a game of 17 players. Just unlikely. I'm not afraid of anyone, apart from Lukewarm, Mastina, JJH, Penguin Power, Something_Smart and you (and obviously Petapan and Nero)

[furtiveglance]

Is anyone forcing you to have these reads, FG? Does the Fargo prp suggest that Uncrowned is manipulating your reads? Do you need assistance?

I am unforced, like an error.

[furtiveglance]

Also I'm not a flake smh you guys

I'm sorry about this. Uncrowned started this by saying my 3 lowest reads all were 'less active'. Over time I became less careful and accurate with terminology.

[furtiveglance]

I struggle to believe that town!Mastina actually has this level of certainty on her Ircher read without that, and I think it makes much more sense that this is a patent pending, Mastina designed, scum/scum partner interaction.

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

She maintains this stance *throughout the entire game*. Like, her reasoning changes and evolves, but the reads are incredibly static, right from the RVS phase.

And she was town in this game!

I think the obvious answer here is - mastina thinks Ircher's page 1 is obviously scum because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher? And while I wouldn't make a bet, I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

Town points to Gryffindor

[furtiveglance]

I struggle to believe that town!Mastina actually has this level of certainty on her Ircher read without that, and I think it makes much more sense that this is a patent pending, Mastina designed, scum/scum partner interaction.

I went back to find this game just for you! I hope I get town points for this.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=79906

In this game mastina decides in, like, RVS? Basically the start of the game, she decides her order of suspects is exactly Pine -> Lavender -> Ausuka -> ofrhz.

She maintains this stance *throughout the entire game*. Like, her reasoning changes and evolves, but the reads are incredibly static, right from the RVS phase.

And she was town in this game!

I think the obvious answer here is - mastina thinks Ircher's page 1 is obviously scum because she decided at the start of the game that she was going to scumread Ircher? And while I wouldn't make a bet, I feel like this meta has been brought up in the thread, so I'm surprised you find it scummy?

Town points to Gryffindor

KLICK! CROSS OFF AUSUKA!

[furtiveglance]

I'll be back tomorrow. Drinking and concert tonight.

I feel like this mixtape has been dropping for a while, but I understand if busy.

[furtiveglance]

Roden, does your role cost 0% ot 5% with a 0% modifier? What's 0%?

[furtiveglance]

Pls

[furtiveglance]

You just posted 0%, now townlock me. Idk what it was in answer to

[furtiveglance]

I think Mastina, Lukewarm, Titus, and Roden are all town

Who is mafia

[furtiveglance]

tbf that's an interesting take that i hope is true

Why, doesn't it make the game harder if Roden/Titus is a T/T vote?

[furtiveglance]

I dont think there's a world where enough slots get off ircher wagon for that to matter

You did what you had to do

[furtiveglance]

the amount of people bringing up RCE without voting them is definitely something lol

They're being replaced now so.... should get some better content

[furtiveglance]

And if I go the really, really lazy route and consider this entire day a bunch of noise while town argues over which TvT wagon is better and turn a sonar on, I get a bunch of names that should pop up: Klick, Uncrowned, Penguin, jjh, RCE, perhaps Ausuka.

A soup of sus

[furtiveglance]

So apparently the whole joke is this klick account being correct on everything
Question is if it's TMI or literally for the memes.

Literally for the memes is quite a funny phrasing

[furtiveglance]

I am choosing to read all Vivax posts as haiku despite structural deviation from now on

It's poetry, but sometimes it is lost on me

[furtiveglance]

Mastina I have this sinking gut feeling that you are town and that scum is currently playing around you specifically and pocketing you

Name names and I can humor you but I'm not going to respond to Titus/Vivax/Something_Smart as options.

Period.

Nor jjh, nor PenguinPower.

Name a name you think is scum playing around me/pocketing me outside of those and I will listen.

But not jjh/Vivax/Something_Smart/PenguinPower or Titus.

Have you considered that Ausuka and Malakittens could be mafia piggybacking the Roden vote? Town driven doesn't mean all town on it

[furtiveglance]

Uncrowned has his own deal with Roden going on but I don't really understand what else he wants today.

not much really!

i think this flip will say a lot

what will this flip say?

Roden was Flirt, with useless ability, either town or mafia

[furtiveglance]

Also, just from a game state perspective, the reason I haven’t been all that keen of moving away from Roden, is that I would naturally expect there to be a lot of resistance to the execution of a player if the Town were roughly moving in the right direction. And you can’t tell me that more than a few alternatives have not been offered to stop Roden from getting executed (Titus, Something_Smart, mastina, to name a few). This is purely circumstantial obviously, and it can be interpreted various different ways (a lot of Scum together pushing the wagon of a Town player stubbornly wouldn’t look that much different to this, except I don’t SR Klick, I think Ydrasse is Town, and I doubt Malakittens is insisting on me being Town just to pocket me).

What you're describing is a pretty normal gamestate for 17 players each with their own thoughts, I don't think that several people being pushed means that the largest wagon is scum. I think the D1 wagon being so unanimous (eventually) also shows that sometimes mafia is quite easily voted out

[furtiveglance]

Uncrowned what do you think of the idea scum might be bussing Roden

I agree with furtive that the idea of resistance is... Meh to me but I think Andres feels kinda town

I was disagreeing, not shading

Scum bussing Roden? I'm not Uncrowned but it's possible. Mastina isn't bussing Roden for sure. I think Mastina's started to really town it up lately, my scumreads probably won't change too much based on Roden's flip, if he does flip

[furtiveglance]

furtiveglance
Vivax
PenguinPower
fireisredsir
Malakittens
Ausuka
Andresvmb
Uncrowned
Titus

Lukewarm
Ydrasse
mastina
jjh927
Something_Smart

Roden
Dannflor

Why is Mala in the townlock? Answer without using the word vibes

[furtiveglance]

I buy his claim,

For anyone who is interested, I think that a role like the one Roden has claimed is almost guaranteed to be in this game.

Compare Peta's role to the standard Wiki description

Each Night, you may

target a player. Assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is able to privately communicate with another living player (you cannot distinguish between a player who is alone in a private topic, and a player who does not have private topic access at all).

during the night,

target a player. assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is able to privately communicate with

at least one

another living player,

via private topics or otherwise.

you cannot distinguish between a player who is alone in a private topic, and a player who does not have private topic access at all.

It is very clear that Datisi copy and pasted the role from the wiki, and then made slight modifications. He purposefully made it extra clear that it included communication methods beyond PTs. That seems to Roden's role.

I also feel like it is good design to make peta's traffic analyst have a false guilty, so that it is not just a cop.

This is cool to think about. You're right that unless JJH and Mastina finally claim Masons, there should be (at least) 1 false guilty to stop a TA taking down the entire mafia team, because all mafia can privately communicate.

[furtiveglance]

Why is Mala in the townlock? Answer without using the word vibes

Mala occasionally pops in with posts that I entirely believe are genuine scumhunting;

from any player they might not look that special but I think Mala!scum wouldn't have reads that look as real as Mala's reads do

. In contrast, I think a lot of her posts have explicitly not been made with the goal of getting the game at large to townread her (which is what her goal would be if she were scum).

181 - I believe the intent of this post is actually just to express an Andre townread, and not to just look like she's scumhunting

She doesn't give two shits about the early suspicion on Ircher because Ircher isn't her buddy and she doesn't care what Ircher's alignment is for a while

UNVOTE:

Luke, mastina, (???)

I don‘t know, maybe Ydrasse for third
But I‘m never limming Roden today I think after re-ISOing.
This extremely obstinate defense almost always comes from town in my experience. Especially when it‘s so genuinely egocentrist at times (not negatively connotated as it‘s a townie process)

Id townbin andres

This is def his row. Meta

What is she even trying to accomplish with this content if she's scum, she already said this. She just wants her most confident read in town-Andres to be heard because she's town

I believed her 331 about me as well, I could see her having that take. Not as strong as the other ones, but it did contribute to solidifying the read.

All in all, Mala just wants to solve and that seems obvious to me from reading her posts.



Also, vibes

You think Mala is really obvious as mafia then. Can you back this up? I haven't played with scum!Mala before, I'll go and look now.

[furtiveglance]

i skim roden's iso and it's like

mailman who can get messages back for free right ?

that claim is probably real ya but i don't get how alignment follows that one

If you were modding a 21 player and you gave Mafia 4 players (not confirmed), would you give 2 Mafia useless abilities?

Never alting again

[furtiveglance]

Much embarrassed, very shame ^^

[furtiveglance]

Back to the game, I'd like more from JJH about their scumreads.

[furtiveglance]

Mastina I'm also here. Thoughts about TA needing a false guilty and Roden's role fitting the bill? (Sorry if you already covered this, mostly skimming your posts)

Also, Titus drunk posting was definitely not insightful or solvey (can't remember the word you used)

[furtiveglance]

assuming no interference with your action, you will learn whether or not that player is able to privately communicate with at least one another living player, via private topics or otherwise. you cannot distinguish between a player who is alone in a private topic, and a player who does not have private topic access at all.

night abilities:

jailkeeper + 1 day neighbourizer [cost: 30%; +10% for each additional usage]

- furthermore, you will gain a private topic with that player: it will open at the end of the night, and stay open until the start of the following night.

MOD DATISI:

Say BBT had neighborized PlayerA N1. That topic would be open D2, and close N2.

PlayerA has no other private topics beyond the one formed on D2.
Both PlayerA and BBT live.

Would petapan see PlayerA as having a private topic?

Ok so that could be a false guilty.

[furtiveglance]

Back to the game, I'd like more from JJH about their scumreads.

I'll let you know when I've identified someone I think is actually likely to flip scum as opposed to simply being at the bottom of my list

Have you changed on Malakittens then? Or were they always just bottom of the list rather than likely scum?

[furtiveglance]

Pagetopping this because it's so important

I'm back

[furtiveglance]

Back to this, they're not giving enough for me.

VOTE: Something_Smart

[furtiveglance]

This game is getting exciting, but also frustrating. I'm at a point where I think I have a broadly correct poe of Dannflor (it should be Dannflor not RC btw Datisi), Malakittens, Something Smart, maybe Titus/Ydrasse, but it's hard to get those votes going. Let's see if we can revive the S_S wagon.

VOTE: Something_Smart

[furtiveglance]

I almost want to vote Titus just to do what several dead Town players have been pushing for now, so I’m not against it, but I’m curious as to what people think is going on.

I’m also actually annoyed Ausuka is dead because I was actually able to clear them based off of 712, and now almost every player I’ve felt really good about has been NK’ed (except for Ydrasse).

This isn't as relevant as other things right now, but why did you townread 712? I thought it was one of Ausuka's more sus posts.

[furtiveglance]

I am a masonizer. I am keeping my partner hidden but you might solve it by my posts.

Vivax obviously scum kill to protect Luke. Aausuka vigged by Vivax.

VOTE: Lukewarm

Very interesting claim and I won't lie that my first thought was mafia can claim masons together, very risky play but happens sometimes in desperate situations. I don't think that's the case here though, and I think I know the other Mason.

Just quickly on the nightkills, I think mafia are probably getting 2 kills both nights so far, and I don't think Vivax would shoot Ausuka.

Titus: Can you 'masonize' mafia? What happens?

[furtiveglance]

I have to holster tonight anyways I think.

Did you seriously fire an ability on night 1 that that needs >100% for its second fire, and choose to target it using a coin flip?

If so, that's pretty wild man.

Or y'know, people could indeed play the game they signed up for without making it to flake control in the mod posts.
If BBT flipped scum I wouldn't be hearing of all this hindsight condescendence. It's a role you use for openscummers/lurkers, not for your scumreads.

This isn't productive, either way, and I'm not giving percentage details sorry. We already got past the tantrum stage I believed.

Preference remains RCE > Roden
Taking tinfoil on Ausuka & Titus for the legacy analysis from Luke (Ausuka being sassy semi-openscummer and Titus having a marked difference in characterizing Ircher's reason of absence from FG earlier on)

Actually this is the last thing Vivax said about Ausuka, it's possible that was a vig shot.

[furtiveglance]

titus is lying btw

drama!

[furtiveglance]

TITUS IS LYING BTW

:O

[furtiveglance]

TITUS IS LYING BTW

:O

Ydrasse pls spill the tea

[furtiveglance]

i have a role where i can check to see if people have pts(EXCEPT THE MAFIA PT) and join them if they do

titus doesn’t have any pts

dayummmmmmm

I think Titus is lying then

VOTE: Titus

[furtiveglance]

i have a role where i can check to see if people have pts(EXCEPT THE MAFIA PT) and join them if they do

titus doesn’t have any pts

I am waiting for the mod. Technically accurate. I had a conditional action to masonize mastina if no one visited her. It resolves last in nar.

I do actually think Mastina will back this, so the smartest thing is to

UNVOTE: Titus

[furtiveglance]

i have a role where i can check to see if people have pts(EXCEPT THE MAFIA PT) and join them if they do

titus doesn’t have any pts

I am waiting for the mod. Technically accurate. I had a conditional action to masonize mastina if no one visited her. It resolves last in nar.

Wait I thought you were already masons. Didn't you say we could tell your partner from logs earlier, which implies you already had a mason partner?