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[fireisredsir]

idk if people townread him for the "i should have died", i thought all the people commenting on how it was weird were saying it was scummy weird, but maybe i misinterpreted

[fireisredsir]

idk if people townread him for the "i should have died", i thought all the people commenting on how it was weird were saying it was scummy weird, but maybe i misinterpreted

i thought there were some people at the time saying it was towny

i admittedly did not fact check that, but its also kind of irrelevant to my overall point if i misremembered how people reacted to that post

ik i wasn't disagreeing with your point, just saying that i think that's a point that others already agree with

altho i see ausuka at least originally said it might be town ai

[fireisredsir]

hem as scum is very willing to take aggressive 1v1s against strong players

of all the possible reasons to townread him i don't think thats one of them

[fireisredsir]

OK so the trajectory i'm seeing on me from dann is they don't/barely mention me at all (and at one point they mention they're struggling for proper scumreads), until a long post a bit later without much of a build up, they include a part on me.

"I think obscure is scum and another good wagon. Something about their reaction to someone insinuating their newbieness could be played up as an act felt really wrong to me. It feels to me like a townie would be more understanding of that suspicion and either laugh it off or at least engage with that suspicion more generously. The highly defensive reaction makes me believe in obscure’s newbieness, but it also makes me think that maybe he is scum who reacted to such suspicion so strongly because it would be catching him “for the wrong reasons"

this doesn't make sense to me. maybe it's just how i personally view the game, but when someone is accusing you of something and it's wrong, but you don't think that person is coming from a malicious place, isn't it just human instinct to want to defend yourself? like, that feels like something that's much easier for a mafia to brush off, because a mafia would be lying there. i think if a lot of people are accusing you of lying and you're not lying, then the instinct to get upset and want to prove otherwise is so much stronger.

i mean, realistically maybe if i wasn't limited on time i would've engaged with it more, but that's minor part of this.

the "tunneled on a pet scumread" by 3868 feels hallow to me considering status was the one who originally brought it up then he just jumped on it once it became easy?

i don't know, really don't love it.

i actually agree with this and this was more or less why i voted dann (i thought 3868 especially felt super performative) but then his pivot onto me felt p believable to me, like he genuinely did have that paranoia that was lingering under the surface

[fireisredsir]

Because the "shade someone while calling them town complain about how all your targets are townie after pressure moves off them" is a classic scum move to move on from someone progression wise.

the comment about disagreeing with you was prob not necessary mb

i just found your nitpicking about exactly how many times per day obscure checked the thread to be annoying and not useful to sorting anyone, but in the way that i think probably comes from town who thinks they have a real point

i think you just kinda fundamentally misunderstand what my motivations are and what i think is useful for winning the game, and i likely do the same to you. prob just a massive playstyle difference

[fireisredsir]

i mean idk if you saw but earlier i posted about how my conclusion from that same linked post from ktane that he treated MT very similarly to he treated irrel here

but i think shea is more likely town now so idk

[fireisredsir]

Also I'm going to lim you d3 if you haven't done my psych profile yet

ill join you

[fireisredsir]

i mean we currently have a HEM wagon at e-2 and no other competing wagons and i think he said he wasn't gonna be back for 24 hours or so

so its probably not awful to be a little noisy

awooo

[fireisredsir]

i was kinda curious how long he would go without picking up on that but it's probably not a super useful reaction test anyway

[fireisredsir]

probably, but he seems the type who might fake that anyway, which is why i decided maybe it isn't useful

[fireisredsir]

i think further speculation isn't super useful and we can treat them both as town for now and trust that they know what they're doing, and sort it out later if we have to

[fireisredsir]

i don't like it either but i don't really think it's very scummy

[fireisredsir]

OH MY GOD HAHAHA

GOOD JOB SCAMPER

would you like to say more

[fireisredsir]

my main reason was that i trust most of the people pushing the wagon and idk i could be wrong on my townread

i think your pushes on datisi and scamper are both kinda questionable, but i went back and looked at large 238 and i remember feeling kinda similar to your push on ari there so i dunno

i don't feel very confident in any other direction atm, so i am ok being a sheep

[fireisredsir]

questionable how like what questions

like it felt fake/unreasonable/bad faith, and now you seem to be saying that it was a taunt/fake/bait/whatever, and that lines up with what ive seen you do as scum

maybe it's something you do as town too, it probably is, but i don't really get the motivation for doing it here. i think trying to 1v1 scamper if you're both town hurts town way more than it helps

[fireisredsir]

my main reason was that i trust most of the people pushing the wagon and idk i could be wrong on my townread

i think your pushes on datisi and scamper are both kinda questionable, but i went back and looked at large 238 and i remember feeling kinda similar to your push on ari there so i dunno

i don't feel very confident in any other direction atm, so i am ok being a sheep

Fire do you want to expand on this in a way that sounds a little bit less suspicious?

no, im aware that it's noncommittal and hedgey, that's how i feel

if you have specific questions you can ask tho

[fireisredsir]

i think trying to 1v1 scamper if you're both town hurts town way more than it helps

do you know if scamper is town??

no but i think he is and i don't think its useful atp to doubt that

[fireisredsir]

so you're saying im scum for trying to get reaction from a slot that i should have known is town?
why should i be townreading scamper anyway?

no? im saying i don't get why you would do your whole fake aggro push shtick as town here

and im getting flashbacks to panic room where i couldn't tell if you were making fake pushes or real pushes and where it felt like as soon as you got called out for having bad reasons for a push you were like "aha, but it was a reaction test all along! got you!"

im not sure that you're scum but im fine being on the wagon

[fireisredsir]

i don't get why you would do your whole fake aggro push shtick as town here

so i can have an entry point and not have to read a bunch of stuff

k well strongarming the game into revolving around you seems kinda anti town to me, and also a lot closer to your usual scum game than your town game, but go off ig

[fireisredsir]

a lot closer to your usual scum game

Is this a true statement?

i mean that was the impression that i had in panic room and i found them as scum there bc of it

i don't know if it's like a 100% foolproof kind of thing but it is like exactly the issue i had with them there

[fireisredsir]

ok this was my post in that game for reference

Spoiler: from panic room

Subject: Open 849 - Panic Room! -- Game over!

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

can you expand on your reasoning for wanting to yeet this slot?

i think he knows that he has a meta of pressuring and tunneling to gauge reactions as town, and knows that people in this game know that, but the way that he's doing it in this game feels too... calculated? like he doesn't really care about the results of what he's pressuring. it feels like it's just keeping up appearances. in the scumgames of his that i've read, he also likes to aggressively push for the position of a town leader early

if roden/ydrasse are town, and i know now that me/yeet are town, i think scum would want to get in there and sheep them on their bombsolve theories, and pump them up a little bit. the way that he interacted with the bombsolving felt more like that kind of behavior than it did genuine solving

i also think his push on umlaut was poorly supported, and felt suspiciously like his earlier cases that were fake for pressure, but he claimed that this one was real

i think his play around the end of day with the switch onto yeet looks extremely bad. seeing it live i was actually convinced he was partners with yeet and bussing. it was a pretty sudden turn onto yeet and dialed way up past the point of believability, conveniently right when it seemed like there was the possibility for a wagon to form on monkey himself

plus he said himself that he is easy to sort when put under pressure. so wagoning him is a win-win

ig there's the question of if here does it feel calculated and does he care about the results. i think i don't feel that vibe as much which is why im not as confident on a scumread. but there are aspects of his play here that do remind me of his scumgame

im still not really sure what the push on scamper was supposed to accomplish or what info he would gain from it and that's where i have the issue

[fireisredsir]

D2 tilt wagon?

it might be a little bit, yea, but it also might be correct

im not sure if i want dann anymore tho

[fireisredsir]

mm then again ig scum dann would probably be making a specific effort to have a trajectory of paranoia on me

and it's maybe kinda weird how quickly he backed off when i don't think i really did anything that would defuse the paranoia he had

[fireisredsir]

i do agree with that assessment for the most part but they're also just kinda both people that tend to put on that air of bravado as either alignment, so i wouldn't necessarily expect the argument to always come with a serious scumread even if hem is town

kinda like baltar vs pooky on d1/first bomb defusal of ktane (sry to keep bringing it up for those who haven't read it, but it's a useful comparison point for scum vp), it was hard to tell what was serious bc they kinda just are like that. but then again in that case they were actually scum lol, so idk. they were a lot quicker to actually call each other scum tho

[fireisredsir]

shea how do you feel about the game now that it seems rather unlikely that you will be the elimination today?

[fireisredsir]

The alternate take is it's just me and i should be looking at who whiteknighted or held off their vote for no good reason

i think this is what id be more likely to do as scum if you're town here, scum prob get stuck worried about looking consistent with their past reads

there's also just not a ton of worlds where i feel like scum would find it necessary to flip their position in order to get on your wagon

especially one that is more or less led by people who are p towncore, that's just gonna attract more random townies to join so scum don't even have to help

[fireisredsir]

actually scum are probably in those people regardless of hem's alignment so maybe we should just yeet them instead

[fireisredsir]

shea how do you feel about the game now that it seems rather unlikely that you will be the elimination today?

in what sense? I feel like I've been pretty clear about my thoughts.

i mean like earlier you were all "i don't care about explaining myself or being proactive bc im gonna die get me out of here" and it kinda feels like you're still at that energy level

it's not necessarily an AI thing im just curious if you're feeling more motivated about the game now

[fireisredsir]

is there a reason you feel scum wouldn't be on scum-hem wagon? maybe it's just me, but i feel like scum bus more often than not, so

yea to be clear i didn't mean all scum would be in one place or the other. just that i kinda think that more scum would be inclined to try to protest the wagon as either hem alignment? i haven't really looked into who is in that position to see if that makes any sense but

idk ive run out of morning mafia time gotta go now bye

[fireisredsir]

i don't care about explaining myself or being proactive bc im gonna die get me out of here

I think this is a just factually untrue statement.

I was absolutely explaining myself and proactively saying who I thought was scum the whole time. My thought was I didnt think people were going to get off me so I just wanted the flip to happen.

I don't like this interaction with me. I don't think anyone who is in good faith reading me this game would describe my play as "unwilling to explain myself" and "not proactively trying"

It feels like you're focusing on the self vote and maybe one or two times where I felt like I was being approached in bad faith where I did not respond by fully explaining myself.

um ok whatever, that wasn't the point at all

[fireisredsir]

i think the way that frog phrased it implies that frog has an idea of what eiralox's scumgame looks like, when he actually does not, but i don't think it's unusual for frog to imply that sort of thing even when it isn't strictly true

i also think it's fine to base an initial read on that (obv, cause i did too), but it can't be like a lock or anything due to lack of info

[fireisredsir]

I think Fire got culted b/c she's full of kool-aid

idk what you mean by this

and i dunno you just seem very towny to me and nothing has made me doubt that yet? why would you expect me to be suspicious of you

[fireisredsir]

last game you tried to lim me for pushing scum. Your reasoning was that I bus as scum thus I must be scum. Why did my VP push not warrant the same reaction?

i did??? i don't remember this

i thought i mostly found you towny

the games i played with you were also like my first 2 games and ive GROWN and CHANGED since then

[fireisredsir]

i really don't remember that, ill go read tho im curious

idk why i would suspect you for pushing scum, i feel like there was probably more nuance than that but maybe not lmao

[fireisredsir]

ok yea ig i did suspect you eventually

to be fair tho i argued with vp for like literal decades about why you were town and you two were deathtunneled on each other ig once i finally decided he was town then he kinda got through to me and convinced me you might be scum

i didn't ever think you were scum for pushing titus. i just ended up deciding that maybe i shouldn't be townreading you for that as strongly as i was originally

and i don't think my townread on you here really hinges on your interactions with vp, i thought you were town d1 too

[fireisredsir]

rereading that game tho and i would yeet baltar there 100 times out of 100 again and this time i wouldn't regret it at all

[fireisredsir]

but im whiteknighting HEM. If he townflips are you gonna flip on me again?

i mean im not planning to? you seem towny. i made the point about white knighting without actually looking at who did it and idk if i really stand by that point anyway it wasn't that strong

[fireisredsir]

Why would scum Dann be specifically "paranoid" of you?

Maybe I didn't pay attention well or it was a "blink and you'll miss it" moment but I don't really remember Dann talking much about you

we just finished our first game together as t/t and he was paranoid of me there

i think he might try to match that expectation as scum here

[fireisredsir]

enchant is difficult to read when they don't put much effort in and are just kinda vibing, and are easier to read when they do make attempts to seriously sort people and show their thought process for how they're thinking about the game

as scum they tend not to do that as much also, prob bc not doing so it makes them harder to read

i think they're p towny so far

[fireisredsir]

i think if hem is scum and claiming to try to out the vig then he claims the vp shot

rn there isn't anything to be cc'd bc he said he didn't shoot vp

he could still be scum ig but i think he just will die later if he never confirms himself?

UNVOTE:

[fireisredsir]

i think if hem is scum and claiming to try to out the vig then he claims the vp shot

I mean, if you're a vig and someone else claims your shot, you don't have to claim, you can just shoot them.

oh that would be smarter yes

[fireisredsir]

ok ok i get it, sorry, ill just go back to not having opinions on mech stuff

[fireisredsir]

i feel like maybe people misunderstood me, im not clearing him? i was responding to nero saying that he is claiming bc he knows there's a vig

i don't think thats why he's claiming if he's scum

if he's scum then he is claiming in order to stay alive longer

[fireisredsir]

fire I feel like you have felt the need to overexplain your vote switches this game

do you feel like you tend to do that or am I just seeing things

i think i always do that

[fireisredsir]

fire I feel like you have felt the need to overexplain your vote switches this game

do you feel like you tend to do that or am I just seeing things

i think i always do that

do you think there's, like, an anxiety to be town read behind that?

maybe yea, i am v self conscious and v anxious all the time lol

i think maybe also like i want to explain myself fully bc i don't want to be misinterpreted? or something like that

[fireisredsir]

marci shot good

i vaguely think gamma is towny but also probably a fine shot

[fireisredsir]

why would you protest a gamma shot more than a marci shot then

[fireisredsir]

Like if scum SS discovers this hint why is the reaction like "I should share this with the entire game thread"

i mean it doesn't really line up with what ive seen from town SS before

both games ive played with town SS he was like extremely secretive about sharing thoughts out of fear that doing so would benefit scum, especially role related things

i don't really see how this fits into that mindset

idk what exactly his motivations would be as scum, there's lots of possibilities, one that comes to mind is s/s with marci, knowing that he probably isn't going to live that long, and wanting to make it look like he tmi'd her as town

[fireisredsir]

Really tho?

you would know this if you'd done your psych analysis already like you promised, frog!!

[fireisredsir]

I'd like it if you could link some ideas of S_S doing this? I would take it into consideration if I knew like this actually goes against SS's townplay

ive only played with him twice, but in frenemies (mason setup) he as VT intentionally didn't share a lot of reads or thoughts bc he wanted to shield the masons by looking like he possibly could be one. it was a p major point in the game

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89631

in invictus idk id have to go back and look and see how much was mena and how much was him, so maybe less significant, but his hydra was very reticent to give reads and spent a lot of time just talking to each other/talking to conftown bell in their hood and then just coming out eventually with "ok, we want to lim this person"

its also just kinda what i understand his town playstyle to be based on past games ive read/things people have said

[fireisredsir]

I am an enigma

I am fully aware of the difference, if you want me to explain it. But I get that self meta is not often reliable.

yes sure that would be useful

i have nothing against self meta

[fireisredsir]

I can tell you that anger/hostility and self-consciousness are correlated with each other and you're claiming to be susceptible to one and not the other. It's completely possible but makes me raise my eyebrows a bit.

ig im self-conscious in a blame myself type of way and not in a blame others type of way?

[fireisredsir]

i don't really know what to do here so ima just sheep someone who sounds like they know what they're doing

any volunteers

[fireisredsir]

dv probscum at this point ig

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: something_smart

idk i don't really believe obscure is scum but whatever

would also just vote DV if anyone wants to do that

[fireisredsir]

i just think he's felt a little too stiff? and i really did not like his focus on frog, that seems like a really easy place to pretend to be tunneled and it felt like he was kinda using it to avoid engaging with the other main wagons which were all in his poe as well

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: deasvail

[fireisredsir]

i agreed with his strongest townreads in 3333 for the most part (the confidence on shea seems too strong tho) and then his poe was kind of a mushy pile which i related to, but like, they're mostly pretty easy trs to talk about

they're well explained but they're all slots that would be very easy to list reasons for why they're town if you know they're town

and im just not really convinced that he comes out of that wanting to vote frog? and then stays there while there's wagons on multiple other people in his poe, when he says he doesn't care much which one gets eliminated?

like even tho i can relate to the mushy poe feeling, my reaction to that is mostly just to vote along with whatever wagons are currently active that are in my poe. i don't understand the reaction to that being to vote one of them that nobody else really cares about and then just sit there for a while

he did move to marci and gamma eventually but they might just both be town anyway so

[fireisredsir]

and then stays there while there's wagons on multiple other people in his poe, when he says he doesn't care much which one gets eliminated

ok went to fact check this and this bit is probably not right, i misremembered when the wagons were exactly. he did join the marci and gamma wagons when they were happening, the one he didn't join was SS

[fireisredsir]

@marci i mean its hard to have a receipt of him not doing something

but here he said this, and never voted SS despite SS being a major wagon (it got to like 6 or 7 at one point?)

When it comes down to it, there's not much in it for me between frogster/gamma/S_S/marci. I don't feel passionate about limming any of them, but I feel good enough about my townreads that limming any of them is probably fine?

Would be keen to hear more from obscure though.

earlier when asked why he didn't vote marci or SS, who were getting wagoned at the time (i think 4 votes on SS), he said this, which is kinda a non-answer:

Also re: your question on Frogster, I don’t think “viability” is that at important at this stage of the day. I would happily consider an elim on S_S but it’s also relatively early on in S_S’s period of engagement with the game.

hey Deas, why did you vote frog instead of your other scum reads that we getting wagoned like SS and Marci?

Historically I’ve actually been a lot better at identifying scum as a vig or serial killer. Frogsterking is the sort of player I would shoot if I were a vig, hence my vote.

i think his interaction with frog about SS could easily be paired with SS as well

[fireisredsir]

he also just kinda feels like a slot in this game that people are forgetting about, doing just enough to get by, and that hasn't seen a lot of pressure for some reason which is often where scum are imo

[fireisredsir]

ari also had him in the category just above groupscum in 2262 for those that care about that sort of thing :>

[fireisredsir]

ok nero the thing with that tho is that vp generally replies as he reads and catches up. so he hadn't gotten to DV's post 326 when he posted 362, since it was about 199

so he didn't know that DV had already commented on that

[fireisredsir]

the links go to the wrong posts bc i was pulling them from memory and was slightly off, and changed the numbers after it already made the links

326, 362, 199

[fireisredsir]

I get the impression from your reads that you think shea is more likely town than not. Why is your approach to a strong townread on Shea one of saying "it's too strong" rather than considering why someone might have that strong townread?

idk maybe, like your reasons are good reasons and are mostly similar to the reasons i have for townleaning, it just felt weird to me that you didn't have much doubt there. it is possible you are just good at reading him tho. but anyway that wasn't really a significant point in my post

Why as scum do you think I made the deliberate choice to avoid the SS wagon?

i mean the idea that i was suggesting was that you're partners. but if SS is town, another possibility would be that you just want to avoid getting your hands dirty on a town elim. i don't know which it would be

but i do find it very weird that at a point in the game where it felt like the main candidates for elim were shea, who is your strongest townread, and SS, who was in your main elim pool, you never had any interest in voting SS. shea was even saying around that time that he felt like his death as inevitable. wouldn't you want to try to prevent that?

[fireisredsir]

hmm

maybe both wagons are right

[fireisredsir]

It's possible, is there anything in particular leading you to consider that?

the vc led me to consider it bc i think deas is scum, but it doesn't really feel like scum are piling on obscure's wagon or anything? the vibes rn to me at least just kinda feel like mostly active town who mostly feel similarly about stuff and then who knows what scum are doing

it doesn't feel like scum are in control of anything here

another possibility is that both wagons are town but then like i have no idea who scum even would be at that point. maybe i do have a wrong townread somewhere, idk

at least that was my thought process on seeing the vc

it also feels to me like there is a weird resistance to deas going through but the people who want an obscure lim probably feel the same about obscure and so like... my thought was maybe they're both right

i haven't really seen a single convincing reason for obscure being scum tho so

[fireisredsir]

I guess if someone has something they feel passionate about we should go there

I will take one person's passionate read over an apathy wagon

I'll try to effort tonight and see if I can get that myself

i think wanting to lim deas is probably the closest thing ive felt to passion in this game if that helps

but i also kinda hate telling people where to go bc im not confident enough to be sure that i can't be wrong here

[fireisredsir]

fire, what has created a sense of almost-passion regarding me being scum? With me being town (obviously this is not clear to people rn but I'll likely be flipped sometime soon), the progression seems strange in some ways. This might be unfair because I've felt a sense of apathy in regards to the game too, but for someone that has worked well with me before, there seems to be a lack of expression from you as to why I'm different from when you've played with me before.

Also I don't want to eliminate Obscure at this point.

i mean i do think you're very different, but i probably am as well, and I don't think that's something that anyone else is going to care about

i don't feel the same drive to solve things. you seem a little more stiff and inflexible, especially when being questioned, whereas in the previous game it felt like you were easy to talk to and converse with

i felt glimpses of that early on but it's kinda disappeared

idk ive already lost the brief moment of almost-passion that i had, im weak

[fireisredsir]

ughhhh idk whatever not gonna push for deas anymore but its still my preferred elim

[fireisredsir]

ughhhh idk whatever not gonna push for deas anymore but its still my preferred elim

Why?

bc im bad at this game

[fireisredsir]

ughhhh idk whatever not gonna push for deas anymore but its still my preferred elim

Why?

bc im bad at this game

That's self-consciousness and/or anxiety, can you use logic to explain what caused you to feel self-conscious and/or anxious?

i just feel like every time someone shows up and talks i lose any conviction i had in scumreading them

so either all my scumreads are wrong, or im weak and too easily influenced

possibly both

dunno, imo if we yeet ss deas dann shea i think we hit at least 2 scum but at least one, maybe two of them is probably town and i tend to always think it's whichever one talked most recently

[fireisredsir]

why don't you just make one yourself

[fireisredsir]

i like these replacements

[fireisredsir]

if frog really does take this advice to heart that will be such a massive quality of life improvement

willing to locktown shea for making that happen ngl

[fireisredsir]

wrong slot but close enough

[fireisredsir]

I'm also kind of confused at why my slot was even run up in the first place

he did a whole thing where he was not really present for a while and then kinda forced a 1v1 with scamper as like a thread-wide reaction test or something?

some of it was kinda scummy

[fireisredsir]

its me, im ppl

[fireisredsir]

not to hold her to too high of a standard or anything bc maybe she's just not feeling it but isn't tweet known to be like really good when she replaces into town slots in an already well-established game

like that specifically i wouldn't expect to be a challenge

gamestate maybe

[fireisredsir]

theres been a bunch of wagons and none have gone through so i think you could easily say that whichever your favorite one is 'didn't get enough traction' no matter which one you're talking about. SS was a leading wagon twice, i think

imo thats more a product of a decent chunk of players not being useful with their votes, so whenever the main voters are split between two wagons there's just never gonna be enough to push one of them over the line

which is why ig now we're trying to consolidate those main voters onto one wagon

all that said i would gladly yeet SS

[fireisredsir]

i think a lot of that comes from perpetual melo but thats a p high standard to live up to

[fireisredsir]

- I don't like 4844. I said I couldn't explain why at the time, mostly because it was a gut reaction, but I can give it a go - part of the reason it feels so slimy to me is that they're strongly pushing the narrative to look for scum off the hem wagon when they were someone who jumped on it. Something about the combination of doing x -> arguing that scum would never do x so quickly just bothers me. This wouldn't really matter if I thought this post from fire also makes sense coming from town, but I don't really think it does - sure, scum don't just hop on town wagons all the time, but they don't just avoid them either and I feel like fire knows this. I feel strongly the right answer is to look for scum both on and off the HEM wagon and I expect them to say this instead of acting like scum would just never turn around and jump on a wagon in that way

(4484)
i didn't say any of this tho? nowhere did i say that scum would never do x or that scum wouldn't be on the hem wagon

i said that scum who had a strong townread on hem making the choice to flip that read to a scumread and vote hem would need a strongly motivating reason to make that choice. i 100% stand by this. scum often struggle with inertia and for most scum players it's rare that they'll want to flip their read without good reason bc it draws a lot of attention

i also said that i had trouble imagining what world there could be that would provide scum with a sufficiently powerful motivating factor to do that based on the gamestate at the time

this wasn't like a major thought, i don't think i ever based any reads off it, i was just kinda pondering what i would expect scum to do (and basing it on what i felt i would do in that position if i were scum and hem was town) since that was the current topic of conversation

[fireisredsir]

- I also didn't like 5146. I also find this one hard to verbalise. I suppose it doesn't really seem natural - of course, it's always a possibility that duelling wagons are both red, but I don't understand what they're trying to do just bringing up this possibility. It feels like they're pretty much willing to push whoever's viable - which yes sounds like a surface level reason to scumread someone, but consider
1) while doing this they have been advocating that scum wouldn't play in this manner and have likely been playing around that
2) pushing eliminations is just... good for scum, and if endgaming isn't specifically the highest priority on their agenda right now - for example, if they had a partner more townread to them - I think it makes more sense to aggressively try to advance the scum wincon, while also not really creating associatives by pushing back against any wagons that might actually be scum
3) maybe this goes too deep into theory but like, I don't think you can really say "scum wouldn't be opportunistic because that burns their towncred" if you advocate that being opportunistic shouldn't lose people towncred???

i explained my thought process more in 5181, dunno if that helps

ive read this a few times and i don't really know what your (1) (2) (3) points are in reference to? i don't think any of these are points that i was arguing?

are these reasons for why i could be playing to push whoever is viable as scum here? (if so, fair ig, i don't think there's any reason why I wouldn't be doing that as scum here)

[fireisredsir]

i can respond to this better tomorrow but

i feel like what i said is more or less accurate? like, you're pushing that scum are people who stayed off hem's wagon and that we should yeet those people because they held out their vote 'for no good reason'

sure scum -can- have inertia but i just really disagree that scum aren't also often opportunistic? like, scum do very much pivot and change their reads when convenient imo and i think it's unlikely you think otherwise?

i guess if i have time i could look into your meta to see if this is a position you, like, consistently hold. i think it's a pretty useful line of argument to push if you are playing as opportunistic scum, which if you're red seems to be your style, which is the point i'm trying to make

pedit: i see you responded again but im really sorry but i have to sleep now i dont think i can keep going

idk it just seems like you are misinterpreting and taking this to the extreme of it being a position that i feel strongly about and pushed hard rather than it being a kind of throwaway thought where once i looked into who those people actually were, i decided i didn't really subscribe to that idea anymore

i do generally believe that scum act in order to get townread and in order to yeet town, and a lot of scum players (not all!) are often reluctant to take significant action that will make them less townread unless they have a good reason. and i was saying that i didn't really see what the good reason would be for scum to join the hem wagon if they already strongly townread him

dann also agreed with what i was saying (in the moment, at least) so idk i think it was reasonable. unless you think we're scum together

anyway no rush, gn

[fireisredsir]

and on shea, i think my 3416 shows that i am p clearly wavering on this read and going back and forth on it a lot and struggling to figure out how to interpret what im seeing. it's obviously not just a townlean

and then... that continues to happen

it's literally still happening. i think right now gth i would guess that they're town but at the same time id rather they get flipped over most of the rest of the game. i think that's been more or less my position for a while, with a few moments of tilting towards scumreading

shea is just one of those playstyles that i struggle coming to a confident read on bc they are good at sounding genuine as scum, and at the same time i also am not really on the same wavelength most of the time in terms of understanding their thought process. that makes for a lot of doubt about whether I'm coming to the right conclusions, bc i don't know what im supposed to be looking for in order to read them correctly

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: tweet

[fireisredsir]

our d2 has been 10 pages longer than our d1 and i think thats not a good thing

get a claim and yeet the tweet

[fireisredsir]

why is it phrased like a joke lmao

[fireisredsir]

what did you mean by the ", yeah?" then

[fireisredsir]

Unless people think I’m scum with the gamma slot…

is there an obvious reason im not remembering that would make this so unlikely

idk i feel like ive forgotten most of this game already so probably

[fireisredsir]

im prob not gonna be around much tomorrow so it would be kinda nice if it was nighttime

i think tweet popping in just to claim a very convenient role and then dipping again is p scummy

don't really want to run someone else up, we've had enough claims today

[fireisredsir]

scumflip pls

[fireisredsir]

There is this one thing I want today, and only you can give it to me.

[fireisredsir]

Day 1 will end in 9 days, 23 hours, 51 minutes

oh god we finally escaped d2 and now we're stuck back in d1

i didn't know this game was going to be horror movie themed

[fireisredsir]

i did zero thinking about this game overnight but maybe ill try to do a little

kinda sad nobody gave me the present that i specifically requested

[fireisredsir]

game is easier if it's obscure so hopefully it is

[fireisredsir]

oh right there was that whole thing where SS said that marci might have an inno on gamma and therefore vig shouldn't shoot gamma (???)

am i seriously remembering that right bc that seems even crazier knowing gamma scum

[fireisredsir]

A post like 2328 always makes me think of the "vote town, bus buddy" strat.

My intuition is that an experienced player like VPB would be aware of this trope and wouldn't be inclined to go for it as a direct response to being told to vote a buddy.

Then again, if he wasn't set up to townread buddy-Gamma and he felt it wasn't strategically sound to bus there, I'm not sure what else he could have done.

And I think the subsequent stuff is also not a trajectory I would expect if Gamma were a buddy. I think he'd be more likely to already have a stance on Gamma in mind?

there was also this pushback against nero saying vp and gamma looked paired

[fireisredsir]

So I ISO'd marci and the only interesting thing was an extended push of Gamma on D1 followed by 180'ing into having Gamma as their highest townread today. I'm glad I was made aware of this, but I'm not immediately sure how it factors into my read?

If Gamma flips scum marci is town which is cool.

Smart is also a fine vig shot and 4813 feels a little survivalist in how he immediately encourages a Gamma shot

Hmm, it didn't occur to me that I was doing that.

I'm not sure Gamma is actually a good shot, because marci might just have an inno there.

right ok here it is

[fireisredsir]

Why?

idk if this was @ me or scamper but

it already didn't make sense to say the vigs shouldn't shoot gamma specifically bc marci might have an inno there. when the way i see it, obviously the person you should be protesting being shot is the person who you think might have the role that would generate an inno

but then now knowing that gamma was scum means that SS has an obvious motivation to drop a hint that maybe people shouldn't shoot gamma

it seems almost too crazy to be scum but i am not feeling very willing to make that bet

[fireisredsir]

not really opposed to an obscure wagon either but

VOTE: S_S

[fireisredsir]

Something_Smart (6): GuiltyLion, Frogsterking, scamper, fireisredsir, Ydrasse, humaneatingmonkey

in scamper's pov i am lurking scum who voted with him on his scumread so he should probably be unvoting now if his reads are real

r u saying i should be assuming ur scum and s_s is town?

that seems to be exactly what he's saying
I kinda get the sense he's feeling pinned by him + S_S being in the PoE
VOTE: Something_Smart
I also agree w the anti-spew bit somewhat, plus this is where there's a wagon in the last VC I saw

i dont think this is,like, impossible to be a bus but the vote is pretty icky

what was the vc around the time?

i was just checking this and i think SS was at 1 vote lol

[fireisredsir]

he's generally tepid w his takes as either alignment

Oh so you agree with the strategy you're just not convinced S_S play is AI?

yeah

this was also weird, he clearly hadn't caught up but saw frog's post about SS being in antispew on the previous page, and agreed and voted? (even tho frog was saying that S_S was scum but we should eliminate him later, which is also an interesting take lol)

but then argued right after about how S_S's play wasn't AI for him

[fireisredsir]

I actually do not think it's impossible that TSQ reps in and pushes his scum buddy. He gets mad that he wasn't on the scumflip yesterday so he looks better?

thoughts? @ anyone not named Dann

dunno, maybe

i thought the reaction and the repeated emphasis on how many people told him he couldn't scumread gamma (which idk maybe there were multiple but i don't remember that many) was maybe slightly overdone but i don't really want to focus there rn

[fireisredsir]

I've recently started thinking differently about flips like that. I think SS doesn't give us a lot of info right now and I think that's because SS is playing on anti-spew. So with my current understanding of how the game works, SS is the correct slot to flip if we want to maximize the amount of info Town has at a more crucial point later in the game.

isn't this saying "SS is scum but we should flip him later, not now"?

did i misunderstand that

i see you were voting SS at the time and continued doing so for a while so maybe i did

[fireisredsir]

I've recently started thinking differently about flips like that. I think SS doesn't give us a lot of info right now and I think that's because SS is playing on anti-spew. So with my current understanding of how the game works, SS is the correct slot to flip if we want to maximize the amount of info Town has at a more crucial point later in the game.

isn't this saying "SS is scum but we should flip him later, not now"?

did i misunderstand that

i see you were voting SS at the time and continued doing so for a while so maybe i did

Why would it benefit us to keep a scum slot around which is playing on anti spew vs others which presumably aren't? This feels like a thinly veiled excuse to throw my name around.

can you please just explain what you meant bc i don't know how else to interpret that

obviously i don't think it would benefit us but i wasn't gonna question it

believe me i would not ever throw your name around and invite interaction unless i thought it was useful to do so

[fireisredsir]

it's ok we made it around to a scum eventually anyway

[fireisredsir]

the only people voting gamma when MT replaced in were Nero and dann. the wagon came later.

S_S would be unlikely to vote as either alignment and obscure wasn't here at the time. i don't think that their voting or not voting is very AI

[fireisredsir]

I've recently started thinking differently about flips like that. I think SS doesn't give us a lot of info right now and I think that's because SS is playing on anti-spew. So with my current understanding of how the game works, SS is the correct slot to flip if we want to maximize the amount of info Town has at a more crucial point later in the game.

isn't this saying "SS is scum but we should flip him later, not now"?

did i misunderstand that

i see you were voting SS at the time and continued doing so for a while so maybe i did

Why would it benefit us to keep a scum slot around which is playing on anti spew vs others which presumably aren't? This feels like a thinly veiled excuse to throw my name around.

can you please just explain what you meant bc i don't know how else to interpret that

obviously i don't think it would benefit us but i wasn't gonna question it

believe me i would not ever throw your name around and invite interaction unless i thought it was useful to do so

The strategy is to flip scum slots in order of their activity level, or their likelihood to reveal information about their scum team. So leaving a slot like S_S alive to flip until endgame is suboptimal because once we've verified they're scum we don't learn anything. That's why I was pushing Dann D1 instead of Baltar, S_S D2 instead of Dease or w.e, because I want the more active scum slots around to create spew which can be reread at endgame. A slot which is playing on anti spew or lurking won't be creating as much spew. So by saying S_S is playing on anti spew I was saying it's a good bet to flip them now rather than later.

ok thank you that makes more sense

[fireisredsir]

No way I would tell MT to put up a neon sign saying "I'm scum trying to live one more day" and then

not

try to reap any towncred from her wagon after she did so.

why is the premise here that you told her to do that?

[fireisredsir]

anyway i think for you specifically, not joining the wagon gets you more towncred bc joining it would look very strange

[fireisredsir]

I could consider fireisred as scum. Seems the most likely busser on the gamma/tweet wagon, as they were clearly trying to make a dv wagon happen before that (when there was clear interest from obscure, Marci and frog) and haven’t mentioned me D3.

idk i didn't have anything to say about you d3 so far

ig its possible you're still scum but it seems less likely (i didn't originally remember that you were unlikely to be partnered with gamma but when i went back and looked after you mentioned it i think it mostly checks out) and im more interested in SS

i also haven't said anything about dann in a while despite being varying levels of suspicious of him most of the game. i think you're both kinda in the "i hope im wrong" category (dann also seems townier lately but maybe that's bc he's pocketing me idk)

[fireisredsir]

mena reaction was on the good side of things but idk how meaningful it is since he likely had already checked for a prior claim if scum

[fireisredsir]

i was town in hdp

this made me laugh

[fireisredsir]

its actually tragic that SS' name doesn't work very well for a catchy slogan. yeet the tweet i think was highly effective

depart the smart

oppress the SS

...


shelf the azelf?

[fireisredsir]

sorry that is the extent of my contribution to this game for now. ill try to be more useful later

[fireisredsir]

you could say eliminating him would be

something smart

do you still think im scum btw

its ok if u do im just wondering cause you seemed p convinced on it earlier but you haven't mentioned it in a while

[fireisredsir]

I also think it was not that long ago? I mean, I think it wasn't that long before the night started right

ig it was only a day before hammer

wild that feels like it was at least a week ago

[fireisredsir]

however I'd also like to see where some of the bad vote slots (obscure, DV, S_S, marci, xofelf replacement) go while the wagons are still fairly tied up

Serious question, but you don't have to answer: what vote from me would make you townread me the most/scumread me the least?

This is an incredibly brazen towncred-grab. I'm not sure I'd have the guts to ask this as scum. I expected more backlash than I got; maybe people misunderstood me.

this is a weird one bc i never even considered that this would be your goal here? i interpreted it as you trying to sort GL, or like challenging whether his blanket statement makes actual sense when applied to your specific situation

calling it a brazen towncred grab is just a strange mindset to me bc i don't get why you as town would see it from that perspective

also i did think about the gamma defense thing but im p sure at that point you would have expected to flip before gamma and i think it's a play that makes more sense in that world

[fireisredsir]

also i did think about the gamma defense thing but im p sure at that point you would have expected to flip before gamma and i think it's a play that makes more sense in that world

do you think I would rule-of-3 myself, then?

in most cases, rule of 3 is not something i think is useful for people who are aware of it and i don't have much interest in trying to guess what level of wifom you would prefer to play it

[fireisredsir]

Fire, I take it you're pushing S_S lim today over Menalque?

yes

[fireisredsir]

Fire, I take it you're pushing S_S lim today over Menalque?

yes

Are you opposed to voting Menalque?

no, don't feel very strongly either direction on mena, i just think SS is more likely to be scum

[fireisredsir]

Fire, I take it you're pushing S_S lim today over Menalque?

yes

Are you opposed to voting Menalque?

no, don't feel very strongly either direction on mena, i just think SS is more likely to be scum

Why?

Why to both the null on Menalque and scum on S_S? I have a very low certainty feeling that you're resistant to voting Menalque and I'm not super clear why.

idk i just kinda townread obscure and haven't really seen anything that convinces me that he's scum

but multiple people who i think are probably town seem to want to elim there so idk they could be right

so yea im slightly resistant to wanting to vote there but i don't want to stand in the way of anyone else doing so

[fireisredsir]

I learned not to panic when people don't read my posts. In about 12 hours everyone will realize GL isn't partnered with Gamma. Now is my time to get ahead of the curve instead of freaking out!

i greatly appreciate this

ive read them and i think its a decent point but i haven't really been considering GL as scum for a while anyway

[fireisredsir]

we're talking about word tells?

time to go check how many times skitter said ping...

jk i actually did that early lmao

[fireisredsir]

what's up im here now if you have questions or whatever

[fireisredsir]

we're talking about word tells?

time to go check how many times skitter said ping...

jk i actually did that early lmao

did you run my posts through a sentiment analyzer, tho

thankfully scamper made sure i don't need to resort to such measures

[fireisredsir]

fire what are your overall opinions on the GammaTweet lim, like do you think that was all town and scum got caught off guard or do you think there's any scum who were angling to look good off it

mmm it felt pretty good to me? i think its possible that there's a scum who did try to look good off it, i can go reread that section to see if anything stands out, but i kinda feel like that's skipping over the section of people who are maybe more obvious and i am not very interested in doing that ig

[fireisredsir]

Did Skitter use the word ping here?!?

yes but only once!

[fireisredsir]

there is one vote on gamma sometime on d1 (@fireisredsir if you could recall why you were voting there, that'd be helpful), but other than that, fire>gamma interactions seem really bland

yes, i thought that the eiralox vote needing to be explained later was awful, ill go pull the quotes

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: eiralox
idrg what this wagon is about but I'll give it a try

I'll explain the vote later
and I don't fault you for not remembering anything I've done, I've not really tried to do much because it's not my MO in large games to actually do a lot early

ok so gamma says this

and basically eira has done nothing at this point and is getting replaced so there was no reason to delay explanation so this just seemed extremely fake to me. i did not believe that there was genuinely a reason that gamma could have that would not need to be explained right away (see 1447)

relly then did this:

VOTE: Gamma will explain when I have more time

which i thought was clearly referencing the "will explain later" from gamma that made no sense and so i was like "ok yes, nice, let's do this" and voted gamma

and then relly's explanation later in 1882 just felt kinda flat and wasn't at all what i thought it was so that was kinda weird btw

later gamma's explanation seemed kinda bad but idk i started to doubt myself eventually bc i felt like i scumread gamma for similar things in frenemies

gamma can you explain more now why you wanted to wait to explain your eiralox vote?

Yeah I was hoping to pressure Eiralox but failed to remember he was getting replaced

[fireisredsir]

i don't think any of that should be particularly clearing for me tbh but you asked so

[fireisredsir]

rereading the section after MT replaced in

+town to nero obv for the continued pressure with good reasoning

+town to dann for not really letting up and keeping questioning her, plus the way she talks about him kinda feels like she knows he's town?

deas... not sure. i would like to believe that he's just town who was right on gamma and probably on SS too. i think if for some reason he was bussing gamma then he would be likely to continue in the manner that he did. im not gonna give him minus points for not doing the fairly natural town thing of kinda stepping back and giving the replacement a slightly clean slate, bc his approach was correct and probably just better in general, but i think it does differ a little bit from how others approached it. fine with treating as town for now anyway

+scum to shea for the immediate pushback on people voting tweet while also framing the narrative to be that he was right all along but people just wouldn't listen in 5328. don't care if he says nobody is ever allowed to think that he might be willing to push a partner who is unlikely to live to elo anyway. that post is scummy. so is 5339.

i think maybe the most interesting thing is seeing the part where there's sort of a consensus agreement that tweet is scummy, and then GL starts pushing obscure and ausuka cases me and... we end up back on tweet. whoever was key in moving things back to tweet there is probably the towniest fmpov, since scum had multiple other directions to go (at least one, obscure could be scum ig, but why not bus the inactive slot). ok now that ive said that, continuing to read

aaand it's dann. immediately votes tweet after the case on me drops when he 100% easily could have tried to help shift momentum to me. dann is probably just town

deas pushed back directly on the GL obscure case. if he's bussing, he really is dedicated to getting gamma flipped.

shea then votes tweet instead of following the ausuka case so he can also have some townpoints (as a treat). i think once dann and deas stick on tweet tho the writing is kinda on the wall already

shea's suspicion of frog also kinda scummy ughhh i don't want to talk about shea i don't have the energy for that

ok after this i went and reread shea's iso for how he handled gamma and while i do think that the constant insistence on making sure everyone knows exactly how much he's always wanted gamma elimmed and everyone told him no is weird, i don't think it's an especially likely path to take as scum so he's probably town

[fireisredsir]

[s_s, fire, guilty, mena, frogster, deas]

find town in here game easy

it me

it probably frog

it hopefully deas

it hopefully guilty

is that too many

[fireisredsir]

i thought at the time that irrel was referencing gamma in phrasing it that way but the fact that he never brought that up again makes me less sure of it

[fireisredsir]

i feel better about voting obscure/mena after rereading some btw

[fireisredsir]

ok after this i went and reread shea's iso for how he handled gamma and while i do think that the constant insistence on making sure everyone knows exactly how much he's always wanted gamma elimmed and everyone told him no is weird, i don't think it's an especially likely path to take as scum so he's probably town

when I was rereading this earlier I also noticed shea was fairly vote-hoppy despite claiming to scumread Gamma throughout, they vote Smart with their first vote, then Gamma quickly after, then themselves in a fit of AtE (but saying to still look at Gamma after they die - could be WIFOM), then DV, then Fire, then obscure...

so I dunno, I don't think it's as hard of a bus as TSQ implies

i think that's true but id rather treat him as town for now ig, maybe im just lazy

[fireisredsir]

i think that's true but id rather treat him as town for now ig, maybe im just lazy

yeah, I mean I think trying to talk yourself into that kind of narrative when there's still compelling off wagon suspects is bad play by the probabilities, I mainly just kinda want to push back on full TSQ townclearing cause I think if we get down to the point in the game where most slots have died off and they're still coasting on "can't be scum with Gamma" you have to look more critically at whether that's really true or not

it's one of those things that's town like 70% of the time but shouldn't be the be all end all if other stuff isn't adding up

ok yea cool i support that mindset

[fireisredsir]

actually yeah that whole sequence is probably very +town for Dann

whats so good about it?

@Nero - when I had just ISO'd Irrelephant and ctrl+F'd gamma, I thought it was unlikely that he would drop a vote on a teammate and say "will explain later" as I virtually never see scum do that and it doesn't suit any tangible agenda

given the fuller context that

Gamma

had actually already done similar, if Relly was just trying to meme on her with the vote, it creates a possible explanation of scum being cheeky with their vote on a buddy. even regardless of Relly's alignment it explains where the motivation for that phrasing comes from, which makes it a bad reason to TR that interaction

wait @GL how do these connect

[fireisredsir]

oh nvm ok you were responding about the good catch

[fireisredsir]

frog please don't

[fireisredsir]

frog please don't

Don't want? I thought you weren't resistant to a Menalque wagon?

a mena wagon is fine i just would really really really prefer if you don't go about trying to get one in the way that it felt like you were about to

[fireisredsir]

idk this game it feels like SS is even less opinionated than frenemies and that one he was specifically going out of his way to hide his opinions

but there it still felt like real thoughts leaked through every once in a while

[fireisredsir]

thanks mayor shrimp scampi

[fireisredsir]

datisi was the one person I thought was town anyway, sadge

why

5358 mostly then followed up in 5399

it just seems so unnecessary to me to reference something I'd said months ago as part of bussing MT

wait why does this give you a townread on datisi but you vote me when i was the one who brought it up originally

i mean i don't really think it should be a reason to townread either of us but it seems inconsistent

[fireisredsir]

Can someone tl;dr the case on fire scum?

i think the main points were from ausuka in 5370

[fireisredsir]

and they've been trying to pocket me all game

i have been trying to be friendly and civil with you because i am trying my hardest not to do anything that would provoke you into blowing up and turning this game into a nightmare, as that is something that i really do not handle well.

you've been pretty reasonable and calm so far and i really do appreciate that.

as long as that continues, i will address any questions or points that you would like me to with the assumption that they are made in good faith. it's fine that you scumread me, just to be clear, but id also request that you avoid doing your "trolling" in my direction, because having a hard time knowing what is real and what is fake specifically in the way that you do it is something that is very difficult for me to deal with. thanks.

[fireisredsir]

i don't think you can delete posts lol

just finish what you were going to say in a new one

[fireisredsir]

Its also incredibly funny to me that people are taking my townie reticence on MT when tons of people who had told me the slot that was town when I was pushing it were now happy to vote them, which I would never fucking have if I were scum bussing my partner, is somehow scum indicative.

I think that point is almost comically bad. But people keep saying it and eventually that makes it true in a game of mafia.

who is saying this?? and what about? the unvote of tweet when she was at y-1??

i said that 5328 and 5339 were scummy bc they were, don't careeeeee

[fireisredsir]

yes i agree, i did not say they were trying to save gamma

[fireisredsir]

i think my take on the mena reaction was "slightly good but probably not meaningful" so idk don't take that as a strong opinion of it being towny

[fireisredsir]

im rereading obscure and starting to think it's very possible that he pocketed me tbh

i think he is uhhh very much the type that im vulnerable to

[fireisredsir]

literally every post ive ever made has been a phone post

i believe in you, you can do it

[fireisredsir]

yay i get to be i two categories at once

[fireisredsir]

not to feed the "hehe fire is defending scumpartner mena" narrative too much but

his first and last post were like 2 hours apart

idk if that really qualifies as "going to lurking" or that there's any real connection between attention disippating and him leaving, i think he just had a window where he was actively posting and then he hasn't been posting since then

i think the attention on him has been fairly steady

[fireisredsir]

yea and the last game i played with him was invictus where he was town and he would disappear for days at a time, usually posting in brief 1-2 hour windows

what makes you say he started lurking the moment attention started to disappate? what moment was that?

[fireisredsir]

i wish i wasn't cleared so that i could argue with people about why my play is definitely town

just argue that scamper is scum and then argue why you're not scum with him, easy

[fireisredsir]

what makes you say he started lurking the moment attention started to disappate? what moment was that?

i would like an actual answer to this btw

i don't get why you said that and it would soothe my mind to have your thought process explained

[fireisredsir]

was kinda waiting for mena to come back and talk but ig maybe it doesn't matter. sure

VOTE: mena

[fireisredsir]

was kinda waiting for mena to come back and talk but ig maybe it doesn't matter. sure

VOTE: mena

Because your nice and give people the benefit of the doubt

now who's pocketing whom

[fireisredsir]

i think it's only at 6, ausuka moved to SS

[fireisredsir]

i did just have a concerning thought tbh but im gonna shove it away for now

[fireisredsir]

i did just have a concerning thought tbh but im gonna shove it away for now

you can't just say this

i think it's probably unreasonable and also a bad idea to go into at this time

[fireisredsir]

ok well one part of it is that things feel weirdly stagnant

and also i think this game size would probably make sense with 4+a traitor

and i was thinking that if there is a traitor then the scum team probably is not certain on who the traitor is

and if they suspect that, for example, the traitor is one of mena/SS that could lead to this weird kinda standoff feeling

i don't really want to put much faith behind this and it isn't really the part that was concerning to me but we can talk about that later if certain things happen ig

[fireisredsir]

(and i think firebringer/SS kinda makes a lot of sense as a traitor)

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: ss

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Why vote the traitor candidate instead of the group scum candidate

i kinda doubt we have 1 groupscum and 1 traitor wagoned but idk maybe

[fireisredsir]

Why is SS a traitor and not group scum, bc ari said so?

i mean last game with a traitor i let the traitor get away with claiming scum in thread so maybe im a little sensitive to that

ik its just something firebringer does but i think it also kinda fits with his posting

[fireisredsir]

oh

well part of my concern was about frog ngl

[fireisredsir]

i have been townreading him most of the game tho so like idk

[fireisredsir]

Firebringer is here to bail out Gamma or is just oblivious?

I am going to word this nicely.
But was this post made with the intention of trying to annoy me or just made without thinking?
I don't know.

I am going to calm down now because this post shouldn't have bugged me as much as it should and you probably didn't intend it to.

partly bc this post sort of feels like a "wtf dude why are you calling this out" post

maybe thats a reach

i hope it's a reach

[fireisredsir]

i still have a chance

im p limber

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anyway if it is actually SS traitor + frog groupscum i think i know who the last one is but im getting extremely ahead of myself here so i don't want to go there bc ill be embarrassed if this sudden random tinfoil is completely off base

it's probably not GL tho i think that one's a false trail

[fireisredsir]

Idk, I sorta like it. Not sure why it's traitor unless frog is team scum

yea i mean thats the idea

[fireisredsir]

anyway if it is actually SS traitor + frog groupscum i think i know who the last one is but im getting extremely ahead of myself here so i don't want to go there bc ill be embarrassed if this sudden random tinfoil is completely off base

it's probably not GL tho i think that one's a false trail

Yeah I mean you can also just vote Menalque so we can win the game. Theoretically FYPOV you don't have concrete reasons to distrust me yet and you will be alive to push me later after some flips since you didn't claim shit.

i don't have concrete reasons to think that voting mena wins the game either tho

even if this theory is wrong i still think SS is scummy

[fireisredsir]

agreed

sheep nero

new mayor nero, sorry shrimp scampi

[fireisredsir]

i just thought of a reason that my theory might be actually stupid

good thing i didn't say it hehe

[fireisredsir]

if you absolutely must discuss this subject now instead of postgame please can i ask that you spoiler it if it's not related to the game thanks

[fireisredsir]

sorry im alive

was dealing with some stuff. not really up for playing rn but it doesn't look like much has changed. will vote either ss or mena to get a lim idc

[fireisredsir]

i mean, frog imo, but idk he probably is town

[fireisredsir]

Frog seems to not give even the faintest fucks about trying to appear town.

I do not know if frog necessarily knows what "appearing town" means though so its kind of hard to evaluate.

don't agree, i think frog does know what looks town

and i think he is doing the most to look like how he looks as town, not some abstract ideal of what "towny" looks like

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: mena

[fireisredsir]

Given the things he keeps claiming are scum indicative I don't know if I could disagree with the statement "frog does know what looks town" any more strongly.

ik you're being intentionally obtuse and yet for some reason i feel the need to respond anyway. i am part of the problem

frog knows what people expect from town!frog. frog is capable of imitating that. frog this game has looked towny for frog. that's the only thing that is relevant here. i don't care that town!frog doesn't look like how you expect town to look

[fireisredsir]

I feel like (or maybe I just want it to be true) that there is scum in the current two wagons, and in that case I feel if there's scum outside of them then that scum would have to be playing rather hard right now

but there's a lot of assumptions and jumps implicit there and that's what you get from sleep deprived 4 hours of sleep dannflor

not necessarily, scum could fake apathy bc they know that both probably won't live to endgame

i think depending on who it would be, they might think it's not worth it to put themselves out there to defend a partner who is going to die anyway

[fireisredsir]

you think this looks more like the scum game?

[fireisredsir]

ok i reread it, maybe it does, i think i had blocked out some of that memory lol

[fireisredsir]

why can't we just yeet SS

[fireisredsir]

bc it feels like there's general apathy and most people think both are scummy and yet for some reason we are defaulting to mena

i don't mind just yeeting him bc its better than sitting here waiting but i think ss is more likely to be scum

[fireisredsir]

its more of a gamestate read than an individual read ig

individually i feel like both could be scum and i don't really know how to tell which one is. maybe my heart still doesn't believe that obscure was scum. or that skitter was scum. if i was only reading mena then id prob think he's scum so...idk, maybe the previous two just played it well

i really didn't like the way SS handled the invictus comparison bc i think this feels a lot like invictus mena where he was super disengaged and only popped in every once in a while and just seemed kinda... unaware of what was going on and was putting very little stake in the game. saying that his lack of presence here was possibly scum-indicative felt really wrong to me

[fireisredsir]

you think this looks more like the scum game?

No I think it looks more like the town game, my point is simply that I don't think frogster is that aware of the differences between town scum and frog scum.

Or at the very least, I don't think the play here remotely looks like the scum play. So like, yeah is it possible frogster has gained +1000skill points since that scum game, maybe but I don't think its particularly likely.

which scum game did you read? large normal 238 he made a lot of efforts to match aspects of his play to aspects of his townplay, more than i remembered. he is def aware of the differences

[fireisredsir]

.

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: SS

[fireisredsir]

Reply to this post and i'll give u a song that reminds me of u (Feelwise not lyrics wise)

i forgot about this i would like this

[fireisredsir]

also feel free to blame me if its ss town mena scum, i kept campaigning for ss lim over mena

[fireisredsir]

hey what's up im feeling at least vaguely alive and somewhat wanting to be

i think ill reread some stuff, tomorrow if not tonight, and try to better sort out where im at

also ydra i liked my song ty, sad ur dead now

[fireisredsir]

yesss i love being prejudized

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i can't like srspost rn but i plan to this afternoon

my reads are all mushy and id like to try to fix that

[fireisredsir]

im gonna reread the whole game now

this will surely be useful it has never not been useful

[fireisredsir]

hmm maybe someday ill reach the page that reminds me why i townread GL now

[fireisredsir]

i just got to the GL vs VP section and thought "hmm this really looks like theatre" and then remembered that was already a topic of discussion