Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[Dannflor]

i tend to think town reads given with extremely hedgy reasoning or reasoning that is easy to back down on is more indicative of a scum buddy than not

[Dannflor]

oh I forgot skitter was in the role previously

[Dannflor]

the problem is i was just rereading the start of the game and i kinda really town read skitter lol

[Dannflor]

It had almost no success getting traction on gamma because of a ubiquitous claim that her tone and emotion were coming from town, and I find it really weird that as far as I can say nothing really seems to have changed that much but here's a wagon out of nowhere.

my main thing with Gamma is I thought she felt genuinely uninformed of marci's alignment. When I pushed on marci at the very start of the game, Gamma kinda pushed back at me in a defensive way, I think this was out of considering her a friend and not wanting her to get bullied immediately out of playing at gamestart. Then Gamma slowly became more and more suspicious of marci throughout D1/D2, it didn't feel like a calculated trajectory to me and I feel scum!Gamma would have been more likely to stick to an approach of buddying marci rather than picking a fight with her and claiming to feel "betrayed"

I just reread this and I don't really feel like Gamma ever starts buddying Marci

it seems more a way to just pick at you tbh

[Dannflor]

VOTE: morning tweet

[Dannflor]

going out to dinner

i don't super vibe with the later posts on fire

they are lines of logic/emotion that i vibe with and often employ, i also think fire's noncomittalness hasn't had like... a ton of agenda behind it?

to me the strongest points here is the trajectory on shea and the interactions with vpb

[Dannflor]

I just keep feeling like I'm mind melding with a lot of what fire posts and the parts that I do find scummy are I think not actually as alignment indicative as I first thought

I do feel best about gamma/morning-tweet right now of all the current wagons

that may change in 5 minutes but that's the most conviction you're gonna get out of me right now

[Dannflor]

That’s not what he said?

[Dannflor]

Busy tonight but down to kill Tweet

[Dannflor]

VOTE: morning tweet

idk morning tweet takes pride in her town game from my conception of her

I would expect at least some effort to leave behind some reads or impact on this game even if she knew her time was short lived

And I’d doubly expect more effort if she was such a valuable role?

[Dannflor]

I was already voting her but I’m making a statement

[Dannflor]

I feel like obscure/menalque is town

and rereading I thought there was a post by Gamma that seemed anti-partnery with obscure

[Dannflor]

uhhhh so nvm I can't find it anymore

[Dannflor]

in fact the whole vibe is completely different from what I remember so maybe I dreamed doing that

I'm looking at obscure/menalque more then today

but also Frogster/Gamma felt bad to me?

[Dannflor]

I actually do not think it's impossible that TSQ reps in and pushes his scum buddy. He gets mad that he wasn't on the scumflip yesterday so he looks better?

I also had that thought about TSQ getting mad about people suddenly going to morning tweet

[Dannflor]

I also see Frog and obscure being pally, kinda makes me think I’m onto something
VOTE: Frogsterking
I’ll go here first because I think there’s better traction here

this push just feels awkward and awkward in a way that 1 of frog or obscure would be scum?

Trust: scamper, Ausuka, Aristeia, xofelf, ydrasse, fireisredsir, marcistar
Middle ground: DeasVail, Firebringer, Nero Cain, VP Baltar, Dannflor, GuiltyLion, Irrelephant11
Distrust: ConManMick, Datisi, humaneatingmonkey, Frogsterking, obscure

strike against them both being scum if you subscribe to the scum don't put their buddies right next to each other in reads lists theory

[Dannflor]

my gut would be there's at least one scum in each category but probably the most in middle ground?

I don't want to make this whole day about Gamma ISO but those are just my initial thoughts

I'll be back later tonight

[Dannflor]

I mean I definitely think Tweet being bussed is a possibility and I'd be a little surprised if there wasn't a scum on the wagon

but I'm not sure it super felt like a scum driven wagon

the speed with which it came up kinda felt more like, hey the day is close to ending and town found something to settle on and feel kinda good about

so with that context I'm not sure scum would necessarily be in a great position to bus and I wouldn't necessarily assume Tweet was "heavily" bussed yesterday

[Dannflor]

I'm really interested in what people think about what i think about obscure.

Because i was not happy when i came to the conclusions i did. So sanity checks appreciated.

It’s not bad I think
I wasn’t really scanning for excessive noob card usage but from your scan it seems that was going on and I’ve def seen scum use it to great effect

This was the one post I found during night phase that I thought was vaguely anti-partnery between Gamma and obscure. I did not dream it after-all!

But I seem to have missed the rest of his interactions with/about obscure because I largely agree with GL's analysis that it doesn't look great. But this post in particular I thought looked fine in isolation.

I don't really think it means much in context of Gamma's entire trajectory on obscure

also like the fact that gamma *never* votes obscure but does vote HEM and Shea with ease? despite my hardcore campaigning for obscure?? not amazing

[Dannflor]

The dogpiling jokes aside I will give something_smart a chance to get involved in the game I suppose.

VOTE: Gamma

Gamma who are the scum and why

Marci
One of you/obscure
humaneatingmonkey
And maybe someone else

also GL commented on this post but in general I tend to think scum can't resist putting a buddy in their "solve" when asked for a scum team or a list of scum reads. even when they are down a buddy. even when their team isn't in a good position.

I think there's a psychological thing where unless you're an extremely confident player you feel like you're gonna get caught out or feel incredible if you list all town reads. despite the fact that their alignments may all be unknown at the time there's a fear that when they are all flipped you're going to look extremely bad.

so in general I'd expect 1 scum in Marci/HEM/Shea/Menalque

and I don't think it is Shea

[Dannflor]

that's more of a reach in assumption but I think it's true? I should probably do the work and back it up with numbers at some point

[Dannflor]

redfire what are your reads rn?

prob most interested in looking for scum in dann, shea, SS, marci rn. a slight level below that would be xofelf and gamma

strongest TRs on ausuka, scamper, you. not quite as strong on datisi, hem, obscure, ydra, frog. then DV and GL are kinda weak townleans ig

i think thats everyone

okay this is funny
our strongest TRs line up but aside from that there's notable variance
I think I'll pencil in fire as town for this

this is such a horrible town read that it has to be anti-partnery right?

[Dannflor]

The problem with Gamma is that they're in a similar category as HEM, they're Towned by IIRC scamper and also by Ari posthumously.

frogster have you ever done this thing before where you go around asking widely town read players for their reads lists and then average their reads lists as some type of bible??

it strikes me as... really weird. even for you? please let me know if this is something you do with any regularity or you if you just picked it up for this game

if you just decided to do it this game. why?

[Dannflor]

I am starting to think this could just be obscure/frogster

[Dannflor]

mmm maybe that doesn't make complete sense based on Gamma's iso

[Dannflor]

Trust: scamper, Ausuka, Aristeia, xofelf, ydrasse, fireisredsir, marcistar
Middle ground: DeasVail, Firebringer, Nero Cain, VP Baltar, Dannflor, GuiltyLion, Irrelephant11
Distrust: ConManMick, Datisi, humaneatingmonkey, Frogsterking, obscure

coming back to this though

I think in a list of 5 scum reads

Gamma always puts a buddy in there

ConManMick was town. Datisi is town or we are getting fucked by scamper + Datisi and that seems like an unlikely nightmare I don't want to contend with. HEM slot is basically confirmed town.

Ergo, *at least* one of Frogster or obscure is scum.

[Dannflor]

The problem with Gamma is that they're in a similar category as HEM, they're Towned by IIRC scamper and also by Ari posthumously.

frogster have you ever done this thing before where you go around asking widely town read players for their reads lists and then average their reads lists as some type of bible??

it strikes me as... really weird. even for you? please let me know if this is something you do with any regularity or you if you just picked it up for this game

if you just decided to do it this game. why?

Do you know anything about how Google's algorithm works yes or no?

why would you not just give me a straight answer here

[Dannflor]

I would like to save myself the trouble of trawling through several of your games

I'm sorry you're annoyed but can you please answer

[Dannflor]

ok

[Dannflor]

I don't understand you

I'm not reading that

[Dannflor]

I'd say probably 1-1-1 or 0-2-1 or 0-1-2

probably not all 3 on one line lol

[Dannflor]

???

[Dannflor]

I think scamper just town reads me? i will confirm claim that we are not masons or hooded

what I was going to say is that I am wondering if Frogster's earlier "averaging" of all the top town reads town reads was agenda driven in a way that Frogster thought it would help reinforce that his buddies or a buddy was town without actually having to fake a read himself

and I would think that more likely if Frogster had never done that type of thing before and just decided to do it for this game randomly

but I don't actually know if that's the case until I get off my ass and meta Frogster so I suppose this is the phase to put that work in anyway

[Dannflor]

although this random connection probably just always comes from town

unless he's scum who is SUPER annoyed he can't get a miseliminate on me

but that seems like he'd be overplaying here

[Dannflor]

which again leads me to think obscure/menalque is just scum

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Menalque

[Dannflor]

yeah, that makes sense

I also see Frog and obscure being pally, kinda makes me think I’m onto something
VOTE: Frogsterking
I’ll go here first because I think there’s better traction here

I think I've come around to this post pretty much discounting Frogster/obscure as a team

that would feel a little *too* on the nose

[Dannflor]

I'm not impressed and your comment/shade annoyed me

https://www.npr.org/transcripts/430372183

Read if you don't know how backlinks work

okay I went back and read this now I understand frogster

I don't think like 7 people are going to get you results in any reliable fashion like thousands would, but I understand the idea

[Dannflor]

in fact I think in this case individual reads are often better than averaging reads

consensus reads at this scale tend to be easily manipulated

with null reads more often being scum

but that's neither here nor there

[Dannflor]

I mean I would say it's an unusual method

maybe I shouldn't have said weird

I'll agree that was reaching but I got excited because I saw a post that was using that method to justify a town read on Gamma and it gave me queasy feelings

Why did you hate that S_S post?

[Dannflor]

VOTE: S_S

[Dannflor]

I would join a fireisred wagon too

[Dannflor]

GUILTY LION

what is your read on me right now this second

[Dannflor]

GUILTY LION

what is your read on me right now this second

town

I was rereading your ISO a lil bit this morning and I don't like the way you kinda hold Gamma at a scumread at arm's distance

but the rest of your reads align really closely with mine overall so, don't wanna go there today

I just feel like you've been holding me at arm's distance yourself

like you scum read me pretty strongly at one point

and now it seems like you neither town read me nor scum read me... at least not enough to push me and not enough to try and sort me

[Dannflor]

ausuka hasn't really bolstered my town read in a while but her day one was still pretty towny

I remember she pushed baltar

was there another reason she's spewed town in light of flips

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

I remember S_S making multi-colored reads lists as scum

[Dannflor]

I remember S_S making multi-colored reads lists as scum

can you find it?

Spoiler:

Subject: Baton Pass [Game Over!]

Look, I don't understand what the big fuss is about, all right? This is how these things are meant to go. Yeah, I've ordered the execution of a few chickens in my day. I'm sure we all have. I didn't mean anything by it, though-- it was only business. Always business. He knows that.

As for concerns to my safety, they're played up significantly. Taking shelter in the Far East is all the rage these days, but it's not really my style. I'm perfectly safe here. A chicken opens his door and gets stabbed and you think that of me? No. I am the one who knocks.

P.S. Oka-- I would appreciate it if you would send back those papers you retrieved from my man; they contain some valuable information that I would hate to lose. As a token of my unending goodwill, I shall share some writings from papers in my possession that I have as of late been unable to decipher:

Something_Smart

- Dab on the haters. I'm putting myself in my readlist. Know why? 'Cause I'm genuine with a capital G and that rhymes with T and that stands for Town.

Firebringer

- I believe Nancy when she says that she can read Sakura like a book. I personally got the impression that she was reasonably genuine in her pushes and Fire hasn't done anything that's tripped my radar, so I feel comfortable trusting this. As for the CC/Fire possibility, well, I think it's remote. See below.

Celestial Coordinates

- I really have to consider RC and Nancy separately. I think I understand Nancy pretty well. I wasn't fooled by her in Merchant's Daughter and I can usually tell when she seems off. She doesn't. Her reads and interactions, especially her insistently defending me, don't seem agenda motivated. She also isn't deferring to RC's reads which I'd expect her to do as scum. RC... is RC. His scumrange is basically unlimited. But the way this has gone-- between the double scumflip followed by double push on LHF, to the way he's backed off and isn't trying to control the game at what could be the critical point of the game, to the times he's gotten into huge arguments with Shoshin and Oka only to turn around and call them town-- seems like it would be RC deliberately making things harder on himself.

Dannflor

- I finally realized what it was that put the idea in my head that Dannflor was this fantastic deepwolf as scum. It was a combination of that Bacde quote he had in his sig and that hellhole marathon game. I've decided to willfully ignore the possibility that he is a super strong manipulator and just focus on his posting. Which has, this phase, been very genuine. Particularly his readlist which I am now emulating. It seems like all the pressure he's received hasn't made him scared or reserved-- on the contrary, it's caused him to put more effort in, which is generally a defiant town reaction.

Volpe14

- Okay now we play the Shoshin limbo game. As in, how low would she be willing to go as scum? The trust tell business is really awful no matter her alignment, but she expressed it in such a way that I am inclined to believe it. Probably more relevant, though, is her pushback against RC. I'm straight-up ruling out the possibility of a CC/Shoshin team crossing lines like that just for theater. With that out of the way, Shoshin-scum would be antagonizing the person most dangerous to her, knowing full well that she was never going to get RC lynched. I don't know how Shoshin works, so I can't say it's out of the question, but it seems suboptimal.

Oversoul

- I don't really have a strong opinion on Oversoul. This sounds weird, given that I've fought with him more than anyone else this game, but it's true. That fight was about me being able to see his actions as coming from scum, which I still can. To the best of my knowledge, everyone defending Oversoul is using meta to justify it, which surprises me-- I don't think the way he's playing would be out of the scumrange of most people with his experience.

OkaPoka

- The big question here is whether he would double bus his partners on D1. And to put it bluntly, I have no clue. I originally thought he wouldn't but it seems that I misremembered the timing of it and he actually only really came around to Wisdom/gameplay after RC had locked on them. Regarding his response to RC's case, I can see him thinking the victim play is his best shot as scum. I don't think it was done in a way that's unlikely to be fake.

Gay Dance Gone Wrong

- Who? This isn't a scumread so much as a "can't live to LYLO" read. They somehow have like 800 posts or some shit and I don't remember any of them.

Tr1ckster

- Also a "can't live to LYLO" read. I don't even think Enter's been overtly scummy at all, he's just been so disruptive it's hard to get a bead on what he's actually doing. And Nacho thought this slot was scum, so, well, respect for the dead.

[Dannflor]

I don't think that's dumb no

I think that's generally correct that scum wouldn't do that... unless they felt like it was their only play

Like if GL felt it was impossible to win if MT died there

but given MT was clearly not trying to stay alive that doesn't seem likely

[Dannflor]

I remember S_S making multi-colored reads lists as scum

Is this a justification for your unvote? Can you generalize it into a statement on my town vs scum play?

(I am going somewhere with this, don't worry.)

it's just a thought i had, not really justification

I don't have justification other than I'm not vibing with your wagon as much anymore and I don't want the day to accidently end too early

I *think* generally that you actually try harder to appear town in the traditional sense that everyone expects when you're scum. Maybe not by much, but I think you feel a little more pressure to warp your playstyle to expectations.

As town, I think you generally don't give a fuck as much and are a little more obstinate in how you play the game.

I'm historically terrible at reading you and I don't think that general statement is a very strong indicator, but it's kinda how I'm feeling right now

[Dannflor]

I *think* generally that you actually try harder to appear town in the traditional sense that everyone expects when you're scum. Maybe not by much, but I think you feel a little more pressure to warp your playstyle to expectations.

I think this is true sometimes. HDP was one of those times, so I expect Frogster to find something similar.

There was something very specific I was hoping you would mention. I genuinely don't know the answer to this, so I'm kinda testing your memory here: do you remember if there was ever a point in Baton Pass where I deliberately stated I was going to try to be more decisive that game?

I think there may have been. I don't remember exactly and I don't really care to look. Why?

I feel like maybe you're hinting at being more susceptible to playing like the thread wants you to play as mafia?

If you're so self-aware of this idk how much it helps really though

[Dannflor]

VOTE: fireisredsir

[Dannflor]

I'm not sure why that would've meant I'm more likely to be town tbh

[Dannflor]

gamma > fire is a little more revealing

there is a *really* bad town read on fire that I am still going back and forth on

[Dannflor]

I would still probably go back to obscure/Menalque

the calmness with which he faced that reaction test felt... not entirely genuine to me. I understand others don't see it that way

I'm mostly just waiting for Menalque to do something actually potentially alignment indicative

[Dannflor]

ok i went and dealt with my paranoia about ausuka

nvm about that if anyone cared

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE:

[Dannflor]

I kinda like S_S's attempt to read me?

I mean maybe it is just designed to pocket me specifically but it felt nice

[Dannflor]

ok i went and dealt with my paranoia about ausuka

nvm about that if anyone cared

What happened?

Ausuka's WIM has fallen off a lot and I think that can happen a lot with deep wolf positions and then just no one ever reevaluates

but I reread and decided my fears were unfounded

[Dannflor]

yes I think the point is that interaction is not clearing for relly/gamma

[Dannflor]

VOTE: menalque

obscure slot is Sisyphus’ wagon

[Dannflor]

would an even night serial killer be normal

[Dannflor]

ok so I also had a brief moment of omg Nero Cain is an omega deep wolf and then he made the posts against the fireisred case and that feels like the exact opposite thing scum in nero cain's position would need to do so

just me puttering around

always coming back to menalque

[Dannflor]

I think ydrasse is quite rarely scum

[Dannflor]

why is ydrasse scum

[Dannflor]

you thought ydrasse's 'weird vig takes' were town indicative at the time?

[Dannflor]

i had a theory that scum-gamma is incapable of showing emotion towards scumbuddies

I don't think this is true unfortunately

I can find some examples shortly

[Dannflor]

you thought ydrasse's 'weird vig takes' were town indicative at the time?

I am genuinely curious what changed here because originally you commented that ydrasse's reaction around this time was pretty towny and now it's a reason to throw her into the PoE?

[Dannflor]

okay

still waiting for menalque to come back

[Dannflor]

VOTE: S_S

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Menalque

nah I guess I'll stay here until Mena decides to play

[Dannflor]

Menalque (6): Frogsterking, Dannflor, Datisi, ydrasse, GuiltyLion, Ausuka
Something_Smart (3): fireisredsir, DeasVail, Nero Cain
fireisredsir (2): Menalque, Shea
Not voting (3): Cat Scratch Fever, Something_Smart, scamper
Day 3 will end in 8 days, 5 hours, 0 minutes. With 14 alive, it takes 8 to eliminate and 7 to no eliminate.

an actual updated vc

pedit no ok but pretend ausuka is now voting ydrasse

[Dannflor]

yeah I don't think it's AI

I just get paranoid because I think as a general rule scum players tend to fall off throughout long games

[Dannflor]

ime firebringer's enthusiasm has more to do with player list and just general vibes per game than anything else

I think he'd be sad if he got a scum team he didn't vibe with

[Dannflor]

also scamper is either gated or was role blocked given he didn't get a result from last night

[Dannflor]

yeah I don't put much stock in him being gone right now

maybe I would if he completely flaked from this point on but I expect he'll be back at some point

I think I'm always going to be between [menalque/ss] today tbh

[Dannflor]

I guess DV is someone else I'm kinda reconsidering right now

[Dannflor]

[datisi, scamper, cat scratch fever, nero]
[ydrasse, ausuka, guilty lion, frogster, tsq]
--
[fireisredsir, deasvail]
[ss, menalque]

I'm somewhere here at the moment?

[Dannflor]

Menalque (6): Frogsterking, Datisi, ydrasse, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, fireisredsir
Something_Smart (3): DeasVail, Nero Cain, Ausuka
fireisredsir (2): Menalque, Shea
Not voting (3): Cat Scratch Fever, Something_Smart, scamper
Day 3 will end in 8 days, 5 hours, 0 minutes. With 14 alive, it takes 8 to eliminate and 7 to no eliminate.

updated vc to the best of my knowledge

[Dannflor]

I think S_S is still well within his scum range

[Dannflor]

i did just have a concerning thought tbh but im gonna shove it away for now

you can't just say this

[Dannflor]

nothing has stopped me from paranoiaing both ausuka and nero cain today and also asking how reasonable an even night serial killer might be

it can't hardly be any worse than that

[Dannflor]

that is l-1

[Dannflor]

mafia traitor:

firebringer

[Dannflor]

I understand where you are coming from Shea

but the problem is, if we say someone like Menalque is scum

there is what, one other scum in the game? maybe a traitor too? how much is scum actually going to want to jostle the status quo (heh) and how much are they going to be able to without it making it obvious what they are doing

I also think, if one of Mena or SS is scum. Their partner is probably bussing them right now. Even if there are only 2 scum left, like I feel the vibe is that Mena and SS will both flip sooner rather than later, so the last scum (I'm just assuming 4 scum maybe that's wrong) is going to want to be positioning well for that. and in that case, I would think they'd be bussing right now assuming their buddy is going to flip soon.

so I don't really agree that no one wanting to change the game state is indicative of these wagons being wrong

however it's also not an indication these are right, of course. it just feels bad to wagon someone like fire or deasvail based off something like bad vibes. I don't really expect a full on case but like I don't really know what we accomplish if we flip one of those two and it flips town. At the very least if we flip one of Mena or SS we flip someone who is in A LOT of people's POEs and then we either force people to develop some more scum reads or do something else

idk maybe we can talk through more about what you see in fire? or maybe ydrasse? because I really think that slot is town and I think the more we can collectively narrow down our PoEs the better shape we'll be here regardless of our lim today

[Dannflor]

I do feel deep down S_S might be town

even though I have them listed at the bottom of my PoE

part of it is that I've been fooled by them so many times before because they play rather unintuitively as scum. but there have been quite a few moments that have given me pause. still I think my skill at reading them is very bad so I've been largely fine with them being a possible lim. Mena is someone who I see flipping scum more often.

but if my gut gut feelings are right then there is at least one more still hiding (and I also don't think they are scum together that seems rlly unlikely) which means I'm open to exploring other optiosn today

but I feel like I need more to latch onto in order to do that and I'm having trouble figuring out where to start with slots like fire or deasvail or whatever

[Dannflor]

I do recall a few times I was pretty certain fire was scum this game

but then it wore off

maybe I should revisit those times and see if they still hold up

I've sort of oscillated between thinking "OH there must be a reason that no one has really found a rock solid reason for Fire to be obv town yet and it must be that he's scum" and "oh fire's name keeps coming up as a deepwolf because scum need to keep the PoE wider than it should be" and honestly I think fire is an excellent player and a difficult read so part of it is just laziness on my part hoping that he's town and I won't have to deal with second guessing myself

[Dannflor]

I would kinda prefer Menalque (or whoever replaces them at this point ig) have a chance to post before offing them?

I mean it's probably not necessary but I feel like the slot has been on anti-spew for so long what with obscure tunelling deasvail and menalque doing nothing that I'd like to see something from the slot

[Dannflor]

I'm a little tipsy right now so my posts may be unnecessarily verbose for that i apologize

[Dannflor]

and I also don't think they are scum together that seems rlly unlikely

What makes you say this? I agree it's unlikely in a general probability sense but I don't think I've picked up anything that feels anti-associative between the two and I've been struggling with feeling like I'd probably want to flip both regardless of how the first one flips. I'm curious if you have something more here

I don't really remember. It's just a feeling I had that I thought I got from something concrete. I'm looking now to see if I can be reminded of it.

scamper town (sticking his neck out for datisi is noteworthy)
ausuka town (has felt genuine throughout the game, that's probably the best way to put it that isn't "vibes")
you town (I think your thought process on me does seem legit)

I've lost confidence in most of my SRs tho so maybe some deeper dives are in order
fire and S_S slot are probably ones I'm most interested in looking at

I did just find this post which I would consider to make a fire/S_S team unlikely here

I guess that is considering there is not a traitor though

[Dannflor]

redfire what are your reads rn?

prob most interested in looking for scum in dann, shea, SS, marci rn. a slight level below that would be xofelf and gamma

strongest TRs on ausuka, scamper, you. not quite as strong on datisi, hem, obscure, ydra, frog. then DV and GL are kinda weak townleans ig

i think thats everyone

okay this is funny
our strongest TRs line up but aside from that there's notable variance
I think I'll pencil in fire as town for this

I keep coming back to this post and feeling like it's more pockety than buddy-y

I know Ausuka thought otherwise but like... I feel like you try harder on your read if you are making a read on a buddy you know?

ime when scum throws out reads on buddies it's usually like... the longest explanation read out of all their reads if that makes sense

this feels more TMI than oh let me find a reason to town read my buddy yknow? and it's not like you'd need a horrible reason like this to town read fire? he's had plenty of towny posts right?

[Dannflor]

first thought reading S_S ISO is they are highly relatable...

people think that dropping into the game at this point is easy.

who is shea?

i don't know if it's just a personal thing, but i'm not having a huge issue with S_S. a lot of things i see in their ISO feel relatable on a sub-to-sub basis (IE, expecting to receive a mafia role PM and being glad to not get one) in addition to just trying to grip around for a place to enter into the game. it's possible that more experienced players don't have this feeling to the extent i do, but i don't feel very good voting them for now.

i'm going to look at dan now and see if their suspicion on me seems natural and i jumped at it too fast or not.

I guess this is really the most anti-associative thing I can find between the two slots and its not really that convincing one way or another.

I guess I don't really have a reason for thinking there's only one scum there beyond the fact that it feels too easy? Like wouldn't they be trying to distance more or do more or something? idk I guess it's certainly possible but it's not a solve I'm super happy with

[Dannflor]

that was vote worthy?

[Dannflor]

CSF is a confirmed killing role

scum vig does not exist in normals

so either she is a town vig or some sort of gated serial killer? but SS told me to go to tin foil jail for that one

[Dannflor]

I have mostly just been attributing their lack of trying to the fact that they are largely confirmed as town

[Dannflor]

Where you not cared for as a kid or something,Shea?

this seems uncalled for, can we keep this game related

[Dannflor]

And, I'm not really looking to start a dialogue with Nero. (I mean if he wants to I won't refuse, but it seems unrealistic.) I mostly just want to bring to the attention of others that the reasons Nero has for scumreading me are mostly nothing.

do you actually think nero is scum or is this more of jsut a general protest ?

[Dannflor]

meh skitter/obscure/mena is getting another replacement isn't it

[Dannflor]

i truly cannot relate i am insane and love the emotional high of being townread while wolfing so powerfully everyone trusts in me because my vibes are immaculate at any given moment

[Dannflor]

I mean personally I'm just kinda waiting for a vacant slot to stop being vacant

[Dannflor]

Menalque (6):

Datisi, ydrasse, GuiltyLion, Dannflor, scamper, Frogsterking

Something_Smart (5):

DeasVail, Nero Cain, Ausuka, fireisredsir, Cat Scratch Fever

fireisredsir (2):

Menalque, Shea

Nero Cain (1):

Something_Smart

Not voting (0):

Day 3 will end in 8 days, 5 hours, 0 minutes. With 14 alive, it takes 8 to eliminate and 7 to no eliminate.

updated vc to the best of my knowledge

[Dannflor]

i am largely updating it for my own benefit, I am annoyed by the lack of them

I'd probably update it regardless of my alignment

[Dannflor]

this game is in a sorry state and I know I am contributing to that but I really have no will to go anywhere until something starts coming out of the mena slot

[Dannflor]

zzzz

[Dannflor]

ftr I really don't think it's impossible that gamma got mad at nero as her buddy and replaced out. there are good reasons to town read nero cain that are not that but I think knowing Gamma it is perfectly within her range to behave like that towards a buddy.

idk why I thought that was important I just want to make sure people are still town reading nero for other reasons largely as reassurance for myself that we aren't getting gonna get snowed by him

[Dannflor]

um the only thing Menalque did on replacing was have a pretty towny tone but I think Menalque is actually pretty good at having a towny tone regardless of alignment so like

I wish he'd come back

if he doesn't the correct play is probably to wait for a replacement but it's really tempting to just get the slot out of here

[Dannflor]

Yeah I don’t think that’s BS and I would consider it in kinda poor taste if it was

Still it makes this game a snooze

Like I just don’t know what to do

[Dannflor]

Menalque I would like to talk to you about your Frogster read

Can you go into as much detail as you’re able to as to why you’re town reading him

[Dannflor]

who is the person trying hardest to appear town right now

[Dannflor]

I had gone to bed feeling pretty strongly about Frog!scum because like... what town has the motivation to play that hard right now

but idk im feeling less hot about it in the cold light of day

we just kill menalque yeah?

[Dannflor]

I don't really - it was kind of a tin foil read that doesn't hold up when I try to apply rationality

like ig t's possible there's a team like fire/shea or dv/GL or some combination thereof that also feels pretty apathetic about how this day goes because does it really matter to them whether menalque or S_S dies?

but I don't really think that's the case

I feel like (or maybe I just want it to be true) that there is scum in the current two wagons, and in that case I feel if there's scum outside of them then that scum would have to be playing rather hard right now

but there's a lot of assumptions and jumps implicit there and that's what you get from sleep deprived 4 hours of sleep dannflor

[Dannflor]

unless you think it's exactly menalque/s_s (which idk it could be)

I don't really see this game as super easy? because like who is the other one do you know

[Dannflor]

but i also get the sentiment that we should probably just move on with this phase

[Dannflor]

VOTE: S_S

that is el-1 I believe

[Dannflor]

I didn't say it was 5?

[Dannflor]

I'm kinda assuming 4 right now tbh because I don't want it to be 5

[Dannflor]

I mean that unless you think it's exactly menalque/S_S

then there is another one outside those two

I don't particularly have strong feelings on whether that makes sense as a team or not

[Dannflor]

wow i am ready for this day to be over!

[Dannflor]

menalque I hope if you're town you can take this opportunity to read some of the game and like develop some not level 0 reads on the game

[Dannflor]

shall we play song game

[Dannflor]

I will take a song!

[Dannflor]

hey menalque explain your ausuka read

[Dannflor]

this game is in a sorry state and I know I am contributing to that but I really have no will to go anywhere until something starts coming out of the mena slot

dann I don't really get this, why didn't you have any particular interest in going somewhere before stuff started coming out of my slot?

or I guess phrased slightly differently, why was my slot key for you to understand the game state here?

I didn't say that your slot was key for me to understand the game state here. But mentally your slot has been a bit of a road block for me. If you ISO me and CTRL + F obscure, you might see that I strongly scum read your slot entering the game and have been on a long tumultuous emotional journey trying to read your slot and getting a wagon going on you

at this point, it is going to be very tilting for me no matter which alignment you flip.

why do you scum read me?

[Dannflor]

Town!
CSF
Datisi
Ausuka
scamper

like this has 3 basically mechanically confirmed townies and ausuka

where did that read come from so strongly?

[Dannflor]

datisi scum doctor confirmed??

[Dannflor]

I don't really think fire is scum

[Dannflor]

i *think* datisi is the only one I could see as plausibly being scum of those three

if CSF is scum then they have to be an even night serial killer but um does anyone actually think that?

[Dannflor]

Menalque's reads list is a comedy gold mine. I'm sure every player can look at it for a few minutes and come up with their own unique and valid reason why it's implausible to come from Town

I don't think its implausible, there is a reason I'm asking questions about it

Frog I think you're town but you're causing town winrate to go down right now more than likely

[Dannflor]

there's a pretty big chance

what makes you feel that?

[Dannflor]

i *think* datisi is the only one I could see as plausibly being scum of those three

why do you think it's more likely that i'm scum out of three of us, rather than the person literally claiming a clear on me

I independently town read scamper the most

and I think randomly softing an investigative role with a clear on you so early in the game just... doesn't make sense as scum play?

you didn't have a choice of being involved in this and I do think there exists a world where you are a scum doctor and that is why the vig hasn't died yet

i don't think it's particularly likely but I think it is possible

[Dannflor]

yeah maybe not

you're just the one I see as being the least "clear"... despite there being a clear

it doesn't really matter because I town read you

[Dannflor]

?

my reads are pretty aligned with most people's

i think in most worlds if we burn you, fire and menalque we win the game

I guess what I'm really asking is what makes you so confident

[Dannflor]

what about that is "so confident" exactly

confident enough to not want to do Things??? I guess???

I'm not sure what the disconnect is here.

I feel like a townie's natural impulse is towards Doing Things because they want to win the game and they want to look cool in doing so. You obviously seem confident enough in the current consensus reads that you don't feel the need to put in effort.

I'm asking where that feeling stems from for you. Is it that you feel good enough about scum being in me/fire/mena? If so, what about our play makes you feel that way and why?

is it because your town reads are so rock solid? if so who do you feel best about as a town core and why?

[Dannflor]

I thought you were saying you weren't going to effort too hard because you thought the game was solved

[Dannflor]

This is weird talk for someone who apparently was paranoid about my slot and checked my ISO. I don't think I've been unclear about my feelings here, *especially* about fire

to be clear I'm going down this road explicitly because I have your ISO open in another tab and have *worries*

[Dannflor]

ok i think im miscommunicating here

obviously I know you're scum reading fire

[Dannflor]

yes, there is a reason for that

I know your reads, obviously they are largely consensus reads. my intention is to get at whether your feeling of "the game is probably solved" is genuine or not

and so I'm trying to figure out what you feel best about on an emotional level

[Dannflor]

like my paranoia is that you are someone who has been lumped into the town bloc after D1 without being reevaluated and I think the wanting to "go with the flow" despite having a passionate pet scum read on fireisred is kinda convenient for a potential deep wolf in that position

hence me trying to sus out where the feeling comes. I don't really care so much about the details behind your reads as I do what you *feel* best about

largely all of this paranoia comes from reviewing your progression on Gamma Emerald

[Dannflor]

=I don't want you to explain reads exactly i want you to explain FEELINGS

[Dannflor]

i feel like i should have a gamma read but i don't. she's just kind of There

what about me makes you think i have a chip on my shoulder
what about my handling of her makes it not look right

I think you’re salty about last game and want to exact vengeance upon the one that sniffed you out, or at the very least you’re scared of a repeat

this feels wild enough to be +town ?

this is pretty much as far as it goes for direct sorting D1, and then Gamma just kinda slides into ausuka's top town reads without much further explanation

I agree that this sort of emotional stuff that feels overreacty isn't scum indicative for Gamma at all. I don't have a massive amount of experience with scum her, but one game I saw (schadd's open) had her... well, not massively different in emotionality, but much more flat.

I think CMM is a better wagon

and then there's this post that comes around a time late on D1 where it is possible wagon momentum could swing from CMM to me or GL or Gamma. and from that point forward there is *a lot* of soft defense from Ausuka > Gamma without a lot of actual interaction between the two slots?

from the other way around Gamma *never* seems to attempt to sort Ausuka at all. She just kinda throws her into top town reads early on and then she stays there

[Dannflor]

I'll let Ausuka respond but I guess I'm not seeing what kind of "feeling" would be townie vs scummy in your mind as it relates to this comment/topic. Like is more certainty in a solved game scummy or no?

I don't know what I'm looking for

I just wanted Ausuka to talk more about it and then maybe I would be able to sense whether it was genuine or not

[Dannflor]

from the other way around Gamma *never* seems to attempt to sort Ausuka at all. She just kinda throws her into top town reads early on and then she stays there

which I guess if I take a step back from conf bias lens this might make more sense if Ausuka is a townie who Gamma didn't feel the need to fake-sort because they've been so consensus town

I guess scum tend to try to look like they are sorting their buddies regardless of their position in the game

[Dannflor]

oh then the fire case came right at a pivotal moment during the day of the Gamma/Morning Tweet elimination but eh

[Dannflor]

Pedit: I do not recall gamma being one of my top town reads ever. I am going to need you to provide quotes for that.

Spoiler:

I think this genuinely reads as fed up of the interaction and is probably +town for Gamma because I think a scum distancing thing is more likely to be interesting for Baltar

what about me makes you think i have a chip on my shoulder
what about my handling of her makes it not look right

I think you’re salty about last game and want to exact vengeance upon the one that sniffed you out, or at the very least you’re scared of a repeat

this feels wild enough to be +town ?

Ok so my reads list is something like

{Irrelephant, Marci, Nero, scamper, Ydrasse}
{Aristeia, Gamma, Guiltylion, humaneatingmoney, obscure, xofelf}
{Deasvail, Firebringer, Froggy}
{Datisi, fireisredsir}
{ConManMick, Dannsflor, VP Baltar}

Ftr I am starting to reconsider Datisi because even though I think he's been scummy I suck hard at reading him and I don't think he's doing much in the pursuit of like being Super Town and positioning himself for endgame? Does that makes sense??

Also these reads are more "vibes" than "people sorted by actual probability of being scum based on their scumrange and my ability to read them"

i could vote gamma

but i won't because i don't scumread her

gamma does that, like, all the time though

maybe i don't understand what you mean then? shrug. i just know i often feel like gamma is reacting to something somewhat disproportionately from what i'd expect

I agree that this sort of emotional stuff that feels overreacty isn't scum indicative for Gamma at all. I don't have a massive amount of experience with scum her, but one game I saw (schadd's open) had her... well, not massively different in emotionality, but much more flat.

I think CMM is a better wagon

I mean no one has engaged with my push on Datisi apart from Datisi and scamper who grossly mischaracterised it to discredit me. Maybe I should self vote as well

I guess I'll go back and read about the Gamma stuff but I was townleaning him, I scumread him last game for not taking strong stances and he was town and I don't think she's ever pinged me this game

Hi - I've started university, so activity might decline a bit going forward, but I should still be able to like, not lurk lol

I'm saying do better because it makes it kinda unpleasant to play with you when as I see it the only time you're ever not calling for my head in a basket is when I shouldn't be working with you because you're scum

Is it too shallow to townread this. I don't see why scum gamma gets mad at Nero for being right??? I guess she could be faking it but like. I do not feel like that is the case

Hi - I've started university, so activity might decline a bit going forward, but I should still be able to like, not lurk lol

I'm saying do better because it makes it kinda unpleasant to play with you when as I see it the only time you're ever not calling for my head in a basket is when I shouldn't be working with you because you're scum

Is it too shallow to townread this. I don't see why scum gamma gets mad at Nero for being right??? I guess she could be faking it but like. I do not feel like that is the case

One of these days I'm going to do a deep dive of some gamma scum games and try to determine if this tone thing everyone keeps talking about is actually true because I really just don't know but I feel like she has to have SOME amount of this stuff in her scum games.

Also, congrats!

Thanks!

Gamma does have some emotional stuff - I had a game with her in it where he was scum and like iirc she seemed a bit less fluid than here and still had emotional posting to some extent but not quite like this? Honestly, I can't say I understand Gamma that well but it seems like it should be +town for him?

Fwiw nero I understand why you're suspicious of Gamma slot but I thought similarly about her last game I played - at time she seemed like sitting on the sidelines and only fanning the flames of conflicts iirc, like calling both sides scummy - and she ended up being town, so I don't really want to scumread him for that

pedit: can you point me to where marci has been solvy in a way that hasn't been trivial to fake? I might have missed something

probably obvious but i also prefer marci over gamma!

[Dannflor]

Like, I did my job as far as I'm concerned! Even though I was busy I spent a long time making the case on Fire I was asked to make. The implication that I would have to hyperpost to make fire die earlier because they are a somewhat stronger scumread of mine is so ??? to me

pedit: morning tweet would never endgame and I would not attempt to save her as scum

I don't recall implicating this

[Dannflor]

Like the implication here is what.

I spend my time building a fire case so tweet, who flipped mafia goon, gets to die one day phase later.

I kind of feel like you are making this up on the spot.

you asked to see what my paranoia stemmed from okay

it's half baked and I know that and that's why I wasn't sharing it

I wanted to see if I could resolve it without doing that

[Dannflor]

You literally include a quote that says I am townleaning gamma to support that I had her as one of my top townreads.

VOTE: Dannflor

i do not understand how this is a point against me

[Dannflor]

Like, I did my job as far as I'm concerned! Even though I was busy I spent a long time making the case on Fire I was asked to make. The implication that I would have to hyperpost to make fire die earlier because they are a somewhat stronger scumread of mine is so ??? to me

pedit: morning tweet would never endgame and I would not attempt to save her as scum

I don't recall implicating this

ok what is the implication of "the fire case came out when pressure was swinging to morning tweet" then

I think there's a world where you could have been trying to save MT?

You say now that MT never was going to survive but unless you know her as a player I don't think it's obvious she couldn't kick it up a gear?

and I seem to recall that you didn't know she was a polarized player when she initially repped in

[Dannflor]

i was townreading gamma mostly but if morning tweet is polarised that wagon seems fine

[Dannflor]

I wonder if obscure is a player who would conceivably just tunnel bus their buddy the whole time they were in the game

[Dannflor]

eh overall feels more likely to be a read on town if mena slot is scum

if obscure is overall newer to forum mafia I would expect him to be more comfortable just picking a townie to push like that not a buddy

[Dannflor]

you don't understand how posting incredibly blatant nonsense is a point against you?

...were you not town reading Gamma? I am incredibly confused here

[Dannflor]

2) pushing a case on fire was never going to save MT in any meaningful way and i do not believe that you think it would, or that scum in my position would have a plan involving saving that slot for some reason

yeah that's why it's not really a strong point that I'm pushing

[Dannflor]

I think the gamma interaction towards ausuka looks a lot more like a Scum-town than scum-scum.

Yeah I think I've come around to this too

[Dannflor]

Honestly my heart is not in this Ausuka

I feel like I got what I was looking for tbh in terms of you caring about this game

[Dannflor]

redfire what are your reads rn?

prob most interested in looking for scum in dann, shea, SS, marci rn. a slight level below that would be xofelf and gamma

strongest TRs on ausuka, scamper, you. not quite as strong on datisi, hem, obscure, ydra, frog. then DV and GL are kinda weak townleans ig

i think thats everyone

okay this is funny
our strongest TRs line up but aside from that there's notable variance
I think I'll pencil in fire as town for this

do you have an opinion on this post, shea

[Dannflor]

you don't understand how posting incredibly blatant nonsense is a point against you?

...were you not town reading Gamma? I am incredibly confused here

you say that gamma becomes one of my strongest townreads without much further explanation as a point against me.

to support this you post a quote in which I say I am

leaning town

on him.

I do not believe you do not understand why this is misleading.

oh... I was not making that distinction

I just meant generally Gamma seemed to be floating pretty strongly above the null line for you? like top two tiers of town reads seems like a solid town read to me

[Dannflor]

okay well I think Ausuka is town and also succeeded in probably making a fool of myself so that seems like a day's work done

now I have to go do actual work so I'll be back later

[Dannflor]

i wasn't even trying to push you Ausuka. like that was never intended to turn into me casing you and by the time it did I wasn't even feeling it anymore lmao

I guess I need to re-look at fire

menalque is still scummy

DV and Guilty are in this space where in the past I feel like I've had some pretty good individual reasons to town read them in the past but I need to revisit them to get that feeling back. As far as DV goes at least I feel like I'd always want to flip menalque first because I think menalque is probably not buddies with DV?

ok i really should go back to work now I've wasted a whole morning

[Dannflor]

I don't really think I'm ever going to see Shea!scum

[Dannflor]

Menalque why did you choose DV over redfire or me?

[Dannflor]

what would you expect it to look like

[Dannflor]

frog might be scum as well actually

im on like page 64 right after he replaced in tho so idk maybe these opinions change later

can you elaborate more on where/how you're seeing this?

[Dannflor]

you might debate me

but im not gonna be debating you

[Dannflor]

uhh, who said that frogs can post like this as scum, was it @shea? (if it wasn't, whoever it was) do you still hold that view? bc i am really struggling to imagine scum-frogs posting with this much... i don't know non-rude words to describe it, but you know what i mean.

I also had a theory Frog was scum because he was seemingly the only one not super demotivated by yesterday

but it seems that meta does not support that

[Dannflor]

here is town fire doing a reread

Spoiler:

ok well im just gonna talk to myself for a bit if no one is around

what i wanted to say earlier in my post that my phone ate, was that in the previous large, where datisi and skitter were both scum, i mostly townread them off play, but there were certain things that did hit as scummy for me. moreso for skitter, but datisi had a couple. and all of them came down to when the things that they chose to push, the things they chose to back off of, the way they positioned themselves, just felt a little... off. there were plenty of posts where they were logical, rational, hitting genuine emotional beats, productive, solving, etc etc, all the things a good town should do. and those mostly did a good job of masking the moments that seemed off and made them feel insignificant. but those moments were still there.

i know thats a sample size of 1, but i also did feel similar things from skitter in panic room d1, so im rolling with it as a model of what i should be looking for when scumhunting Good Players (tm), cause i don't have any better ideas when there aren't any flips.

so i reread the game and here's a mostly unordered and maybe incomplete list

1. skitter backing off dwlee in 182. i was not satisfied at all with dwlee's answer here and i don't think skitter should have been either

2. skitter being the "reasonable party" in the prism vs ari debate is something ive seen scum skitter do. but i have a feeling its just something that skitter does. still noting it bc it is something i thought about

3. prism's switch on ari in 155. i know she's said recently that she thinks that would have been bad scumplay for her to do that, but idk the latching on thing here just kiiinda feels like the way in which scum could look for a weak spot to attack and tunnel. town can do that too obviously, and i think prisms reasoning later in the argument are fair and reasonable and well-stated, but there's something about the initial trigger that i don't quite buy. my heart isn't in this one tbh but i have told myself that im not supposed to listen to my heart here

4. vp's early aggressive push on skitter is just... hm. kinda reminds me of monkey in the recent panic room game, where he's plausibly hiding behind an exaggerated push "for the sake of pressure" because then you don't have to look genuine while doing it. hm hm. like it feels like it's too... out of the playbook? if that makes any sense? and something that someone would likely want to pull out if they're having trouble fitting in and vibing

5. my hearts not in this one either. shuichi in 222 and voting dwlee soon after. idk if i can really count this one bc i agree with it so it doesn't really feel off but... i can very easily see a world where scum would sheep me on a somewhat under the radar read. and people try to pocket me like an average of 10 times per game so i should probably be wary of that possibility

6. vp 255 just doesn't feel like vp picking on things that i think town vp should genuinely care about picking on

7. 275 mostly noting this for later if we get some flips. but it does feel like dwlee is realigning their reads to be looking for scum in the generally popular scumreads. this isn't an inherently scummy thing to do but it is a potentially significant positioning move

8. datisi giving a teamread of skitter/vp but not wanting to givr any sort of a read on vp individually felt a little off to me

9. actually kinda not loving datisi's push on skitter in general here on a reread, although it didn't bother me the first time. the things he's choosing as reasons don't quite feel like they match the tone of the push? god the more I type here the less i feel like these reads are useful or explained in any coherent way but im already committed

10. dwlee's switch on vp in 410 kinda stands out to me bc vp had just recently started making some more effort-y posts, but I don't think the posts were very good? maybe dwlee disagrees, but if they have tmi that vp is town, i think his posts would look townier than they are

11. prism with enchant as top townread in 422 is just strange imo. i don't think anyone is really obvtown here, so... maybe. mostly i just agree with all the points made by shuichi in 438



ok i got sleepy and this post is definitely already way longer than it should be. maybe ill continue this approach another time if i end up deciding it was useful

[Dannflor]

viewtopic.php?f=84&t=89302

from this game

which albeit is much shorter than this one

[Dannflor]

short version is i thought his entrance was a lot worse than i remembered, and the way vp and others treated it felt like he could fit into a scumteam. specifically the callout of skitter as towny seemed really fake and meant to try to imitate the town frog wild theories that people expect (but those are usually actually based in something, believe it or not)

when i thought this originally everyone told me frogster was joking and i was overreacting

[Dannflor]

tbf i also assumped scamper was gunsmith because that was what he said when he reaction tested menalque

but I guess he didn't explicitly confirm that anywhere

[Dannflor]

I'm not really seeing the scum motivation to post 7517, if fire is scum who wants to push me it's so easy to ignore that post or wave it away, if he's genuine about thinking that's town then ether this is a deep deep ploy for towncred emulating how he'd play as town, or he's just town. I've done somewhat similar before as scum when I realized I couldn't in good faith push who I wanted to push but never after faking a 223 page reread and never over something as singular as that as far as I can recall

GL, this feels kinda surface level as a take. I think scum generally like to give some "room" to be wrong on their pushes if they are pushing town. Especially fire, who seems generally lack strong conviction in his reads this game, I think would definitely qualify any push he was going to make.

Like... Thinking this is a deep deep ploy for towncred doesn't seem like a real thought? It doesn't seem that deep? Especially because he apparently still thinks your scum?

What am I missing here?

[Dannflor]

I'll wait for fire to comment

[Dannflor]

GL, can you elaborate on some reasons you are suspicious of me? I have generally liked your read progression on me but looking back im realizing it is largely a vague “towny with a pinch of deepwolf read”

Which isn’t shade exactly my reads have been fairly nebulous too but im wondering if there are specific reasons im a scum candidate for you or if its just the lack of anything clearing in your eyes

[Dannflor]

I’m glad to see that Nero’s approach of simply always SRing me no matter how many times he’s wrong sails on a steady course tho

This is a weird post to make in a game where you are a consensus scum read

[Dannflor]

oh yea i def still think GL is scum that post just made me doubt myself but idk

so if you think I'm scum what was the point of 7517

like if you don't earnestly think that's a townslip, then you're just posturing

I just viewed it as stream of consciousness thinking that doesn't really have a "point" as either alignment except to look genuine

[Dannflor]

it seems strange to me to assume someone's reasons for scum reading you are nefarious or is otherwise not a result of your play this game when there is evidence of many people scum reading you in this game for this game

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Frogster

[Dannflor]

I think Ausuka is town and scum is way more likely to not get defensive in the situation that happened earlier between me and them

idk I think you are seeing things that aren't there Nero

[Dannflor]

vig baltar

[Dannflor]

tbh i thought nero was the mason

[Dannflor]

I wonder if shea is under the impression that masons can only come in pairs?

[Dannflor]

I thought anything but mason pair was non-normal?

I believe that's incorrect

[Dannflor]

and so if scamper is lying here the *real* mason would pop up and say hey no scamper is not in the masonry

it is possible for there to be multiple independent masonries but I don't think that is what scamper is claiming here

[Dannflor]

I mean I don't think it's shea

[menalque, frogster, guiltylion, dv] is the set I need to reread in

[Dannflor]

I don't really know what it means

I don't think scum would be anymore likely to assume or not assume scamper was a gunsmith?

[Dannflor]

I really like the frog case. I haven't fully read/digested the GL case yet. But the comments and Frog solidfy a lot of icky feelings I've been having over the last few days.

You've inspired me to do my own thorough reread instead of just picking through ISOs whenever I get paranoid about a specific slot

also................

I am loathe to be like whoa look effort must be town but like I am finding it increasingly hard to see fire as scum

[Dannflor]

this interaction feels very TOWN

but there aren't that many SLOTS left in the GAME

[Dannflor]

yeah I kinda hate all the town reads but I kinda understand that half the reason those town reads exist is because he has a strong scum team guess, which, I've been there before

[Dannflor]

I am hoping people have had better reasons to town read Nero than just Gamma getting mad at Nero

I've seen Gamma get very emotional towards scum mates more than once

[Dannflor]

starting my reread and don't really think nero/mena are buddies in any world

there are way too many people being useless with their votes.


VOTE: skitter30

there are way too many people being useless with their votes.


VOTE: skitter30

yes, plz elaborate on how i'm being useless with my vote in the second post of the game

this whole interaction and the ensuing skitter not understanding that nero was joking just seems... unlikely for skitter to behave that way towards a buddy?

[Dannflor]

what is the comparison point for frog!scum Datisi?

[Dannflor]

VCA! VCA! VCA!

[Dannflor]

also im conftown due to being adorable

[Dannflor]

Looked at dead list. Is Ydrasse mason known?

that'd be me and scamper

also, csf is conftown due to being a vig

Don't punk me.

can i call this a town slip lol

[Dannflor]

I believe she assumes you are trolling (see: punking) her

[Dannflor]

yes, datisi, scamper, and Cat Scratch Fever are all conf-town

I am not conf-town though I was punking you

[Dannflor]

...we're a mason trio

i had ydrasse as locktown since day 1 and defended her, this is verifiable


i hid datisi toward the bottom of my townreads because i was hiding him but pulled the claim day 2 because i didn't have the energy to argue down ausuka from scumreading him

like, there are crumbs but given there are two of us alive it shouldn't be that necessary

yeah okay im being inconsiderate

i claim vig with a modifier

sorry guys

(HEM was CSF's predecessor)

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Frogsterking

[Dannflor]

The Masons are real based on my behavioral analysis. Their reads list D1 when aggregated together produced a 100% accurate Town core (assuming my read on Dease was tinfoil.) Past constructing a Town core based on an aggregate of their reads, they have not been successful in pinpointing mafia. We don't need any big fights or crazy theories we need someone to pinpoint the 2 (maybe 3) mafia within like 4 slots which are likely to contain it. I think VCA is one of my weakest points but I tried to think about it a little bit and I think Obscure (Menalque) and fireisred will turn up as suspicious.

Hi Frog

Gamma was in this so-called impenetrable town core you constructed

[Dannflor]

okay I guess I confused which towncore you were talking about

The problem with Gamma is that they're in a similar category as HEM, they're Towned by IIRC scamper and also by Ari posthumously.

but you did at one point attribute Gamma as town because they were towned by two lock towns

anyway, the point doesn't really matter

I think what matters is that I don't really believe that you believe what you are saying anymore

I feel like your bravado and gusto is less focused now and more just about getting people to believe that you are genuine, but I don't see genuine fire behind it. The way you've been reading me is so weird first of all. Like I appear to just become scum in your mind whenever I disagree with you. Or I'm a traitor so you can discredit me but don't actually have to push me?

I don't know this just feels like a replication of someone being overconfident not someone who is actually this confident in what they want

[Dannflor]

no Titus is just wasting time I think