House of the Dragon - Game Over!

[Titus]

So, we have a kingmaker day...will read up Monday. Forgot to vla. At least there are wagons.

[Titus]

I suppose I need to do something but I've been swamped

VOTE: LLD

Wagons up!

[Titus]

here is my small town:

Junko the Prinzessin der Verurteilung
Andante
TSQ
Firebringer
Lady Lambdadelta
Dannfloor

Not sure I agree with all the reads but I can TR this for today.

Reading from 26.

[Titus]

Lukewarm needs to do more if he wants maintain position as master of ships

I have literally been on VLA since the start of the game, and I have more posts then 9 other players.

I think I have been doing okay lol

Probs town.

[Titus]

You seem to think I play bad, but why? Because I think mastina should be King? Because my opinion differs from TSQ's? I think mastina is thr best possible choice to be King if she's town. What's so wrong with that? Do tell me.

I don't have a read on mastina, but it feels like you have a personal bias towards mastina. You join games because she is in them and promote her has town. Have you caught mastina as scum before?

What are your other reads?

[Titus]

i'm totally not stealing this read from guiltylion: lukewarm's 657 is making me nervous. something to me feels incongruent with townreading lld for not being diplomatic and not sharing townreads, but also townreading her for outlining a possible scum plan or suggesting popcorn. other than the obvious issue of "there are people here familiar with lld's towngame and the fact that she does not share townreads easily as town, and would probably call her out if she did that"... it's like the former is townreading her for not being lamist, while the latter is townreading her for actions that can easily be thought of as lamist. it feels arbitrary.

Supposing the facts are as you outline, I have no problem TRing them both. I should probably review the plan to ensure no slips (where is it?). LLD playing to stop town from being what she perceives as boneheaded is pretty standard LLD. If LLD shares townreads, it limits her ability to use anger to resort (based on how I have seen her play).

[Titus]

Titus, you going to play this game when?

Fair. Had shitty personal drama and frustrated with idiots. Dealt with subbing into a vig slot that failed to cc or shoot scum. Made one mistake and scum one. I am frustrated with how easy things have been.

[Titus]

VOTE: LLD to break the tie

Lol I'll want a tie.

[Titus]

The thing is, I am not. I am just waiting for mastina to come back and do something town, so I can return to voting her. Because I genuinely think that mastina can lead us well if she is town.

I agree! from mastina games I've seen she's a strong town player, I just haven't seen it this game :/
so the LLD Queen vote is just cause? no real reason to make LLD the leading wagon? like, why LLD over Dann?

Why Dann?

[Titus]

GuiltyLion [3]: Dannflor, Andresvmb, thestatusquo
Dannflor [3]: PenguinPower, GuiltyLion, Andante

lol back to the selfvoting point, so like, Dann ignored me voting for him king,he didn't even wanna move his vote to himself, so that's like saying he's more confident GL is town than he is, and you can't say Dann just doesn't want king, the way he's been playing 10000% is like "make me king" it just has that vibe... I think Dann might actually be scum here... lol and as for GL's alignment... unsure, cause I could see town GL coming at me for just calling him maf. interesting.... Dann has lost my TR!

Dann/Datisi/VP at least 2 of them are gonna be scum... pretty sure there. Like, the lack of votes for Datisi!King also speaks volumes, as I mentioned earlier, datsis said he wouldn't mind king, but didn't self vote, that has stood out... hmmmm I'll just let this sit for a bit, but yeah Dann definitely not town, the way he approached Andante here, it's like, nahhhhh just picked me cause I'm the easy push in literally any situation. hmmm I'm gonna laugh so hard once I see I've basically had the scum team from the start

Wait, you want a player you're thinking might be scum to be king?

[Titus]

I am pretty sure I can make it so mastina does not get elected king in this game pretty easily.

And I am pretty sure I can negate any attempts you make to do so, by burying your posts with my own till no one pays attention to them. Don't try me. Leave your bias by the door, as it's not needed here.

I am pretty sure I can make it so mastina does not get elected king in this game pretty easily.

And I believe she does it as town. YOU were the one making the claim that it was town indicative of her. I was saying it was NAI and that I don't want a king who plays like that because its heinous.

So it's for personal reasons? You would rather throw away a potential win because of personal reasons?

*adds you to my do-not-support pile with Firebringer*

How is "I do not think this playstyle is good for a king" "personal reasons?"

I think I shall not engage with you further because I think you have nothing reasonable to say. Good night.

*sighs sadly* Another bean of 'I will ignore you because you do not see things my way' variety...

I feel like this is all bait but egh whatever

You know, I'm not the most skilled player ever, nor I'm the greatest memer of all time, but you are not being any of those by any stretch of the imagination

so people can't be biased but YOU can?

people can't troll but YOU can?

you want your voice to be heard, yet the only thing you have done this game is talk about mastina a player who will probably be replaced?

like dude, we have 20+ pages of content drop your mastina rampage or I and probably others will be ignoring you for the rest of the game

Could just policy. The Yume I know gives reads. (I know rich from me this game)

[Titus]

adante like 3 people posted between when you voted me and then unvoted

I only just saw it now

there is literally only 12 hours between the posts

your paranoia about a "lack of reaction" seems not genuine

bad take

I'm fine with that.

[Titus]

Because Andante is hyperactive and expects everyone to react immediately

okay sure

why did you think I should know this

It's in the same vibe as the speech patterns

This feels a bit fake. Adante is demanding as either alignment.

[Titus]

dwlee why do you feel focused on nitpicks

Agreed. Dan's likely town.

[Titus]

I think its kind of weird that andante hasn't talked about me AT ALL considering what a giant part of yesterday I was.

Vanity feels town.

[Titus]

I kind of almost wonder if the sheer number of people calling adante obvious town does in fact mean she is just town and there are TMIers in the mix

pedit; I'm not gonna promise that

Possible. I think Adante's position on you is too bad to come from scum but it's weak.

[Titus]

Lion would you consider executing Rhae?

I'm certainly open to the idea but I'm not at a place with all my reads where I'd commit to that.

why are you pushing to execute her specifically? and also, do you think she would be particularly hard to get eliminated the usual way?

Because she is annoying and hard to read, actually i do believe that if she is scum, it can under the radar for a while

I think she's scum using mastina as a shield.

[Titus]

also, i swear i never understood the "this person is being widely townread, must be town that mafia is afraid to challenge". like, why can't they be scum that mafia has no intentions of challenging?

is there a specific reason you think Baltar is a better pick for king than your other town reads (like me)

I'm not trying to advocate you should be voting me instead I'm just curious what the difference is

not really. he's the one townread i feel like i will definitely be able to figure out down the line in case it's wrong (now that the large is over, i can say that i feel like i picked up some confidence on actually reading baltar)

but also it's like, i don't feel overly pressured to need to have my mind made up about my choice already? i'm still feeling out the game, i wanna use this time to get some sorta vibes on as many people as possible. i can move my vote once i want to move it, but i don't think we're there yet, and i'm fine having it idle on baltar. unlike normal votes, i can't use this one to pressure and reaction test.

"well datisi, you can, you just need to read those reactions differ--" shut up i don't know how to read them

Datisi might be feeling boxed in here.

[Titus]

You seem to think I play bad, but why? Because I think mastina should be King? Because my opinion differs from TSQ's? I think mastina is thr best possible choice to be King if she's town. What's so wrong with that? Do tell me.

I don't have a read on mastina, but it feels like you have a personal bias towards mastina. You join games because she is in them and promote her has town. Have you caught mastina as scum before?

What are your other reads?

Nope, I haven't, but I do believe I can, if given enough days. Game days, that is. But in every game I played with her, she was town, except when she was scum with me (in which case I had a vested interest to keep her alive, so I'd townread her all the same.)

So I guess that the bottom line is that I will townread her as either alignment, and thus think she'll make a good King.

Why does a townread equal a good king? She's obviously detached. People know I'm not the best king day 1 (I'd likely policy) but I want more data.

I also don't like you ignored my request for other reads.

[Titus]

okay, so i went back to reread the first ~100 posts of her iso there, and it's like... i don't think anything of her iso in HDP is even remotely as townie as 136. the two isos feel like night and day. she did have the weird "lol what if 4 gentlemen scum" read, which like sure ok weird. but i feel like post after post in this game, she's coming up with new wacky theories on what is going on in the game. it's like she cannot stop herself from yelling out her reads.

contrast to hdp, where it's like... a lot of fluff posting, a lot of weird defensive "i'm not maf", and very very few reads when compared to this game.

hyperactivity maybe, but i don't feel like she did either of pendulum read swings or projected confidence in hdp. and the "4 gent scum" is like, the only wacky theory of hers i've found there, compared to... like 50 of them she's had this game probably. these two isos don't feel similar at all

I want to acknowledge this and say that I'll go back and reread her in HDP since I was just going off my memory of the vibes, I don't have time to do it right now but will give this a proper response. I want to reiterate that I don't really have a full on scumread on Andante I just didn't like that post because it specifically reminded me of her HDP post, and I didn't get where all the easy townreads came from

Like here. Why me? Like, I'm signing my name to the 'people are scum reading andante for reasons that are...andante' book. It's not particularly deep or complicated, but I'm not the only one with that take.

Tbh kinda looks like you just saw my name and decided to pick it out of a hat.

Lukewarm would be a good king.

This is bad. You've posted nothing other than casual unexplained reads, and both your 203 and 725 included Andante townread with no commentary or explanation at all, which is why I called it out. Feels like you just want to give safe reads and blend in, why should I not be skeptical of that? Where did the "hat" idea come from?

Also, why is Lukewarm a good king? If he's town I'd agree but I don't see him having done anything unmistakably town here.

as an addendum thought, his long explanation of his LLD read gave me an impression of scum buddying town, I see a lot of explanation of things scum!LLD could have done instead of what she's done here, but virtually no paranoia about why she isn't scum just emulating what she thinks she would do as town. It's hard for me to put into words but it gives me a vibe of a read justification that was derived from assuming the conclusion (town!LLD) first

Could be true on Luke but not feeling it.

[Titus]

Datisi might be feeling boxed in here.

what?

Based on what I have read, it feels more like your interested in shading people than finding town.

[Titus]

cool, read my entire iso before shading me like that

Meh, we'll see. Might have time.

[Titus]

WHY ARE YOU IGNORING MY RESPONSES, TITUS?!

You have nothing worth responding to. I get 150 posts. Going back and forth on why you refuse to play isn't worthwhile.

Datisi might be feeling boxed in here.

what?

Based on what I have read, it feels more like your interested in shading people than finding town.

i might have a different definition of shading but like, “you’re voting dann king cause you think he’s scum”
like isn’t that shading? it’s not hard to see I unvoted him? if you even cared why I was voting dann you’d go to my ISO and see when I did vote…

We do. Shading = looking for reasons not to townread. Technically, it's me sorting you but my incorrect stance was a confused/mistaken discredit. I thought you were still voting Dann.

Titus' catchup seems very surface level like

she did not put in the barest modicum of effort to look past her very first impression of what she read

unfortunately I'm not too sure whether that's actually alignment indicative for her right now

It's not a full gamesolve but surface level, really?

[Titus]

I also did not feel like her methodology even made me, someone who landed on this being more likely to be a town approach from her, more inclined to name her king

Where would you want LLD if you could decide?

Getting cop checked by the Hand of the King probably lol.

But actually, I have not really been able to put a lot of brain power towards the PRs. This game is getting about 20% of the brain power I normally bring to games atm.

Maybe the PR slot on the council that could do the least amount of damage if she were scum, but also lets her be in on the council meetings in case she is town (I would value her having imput in those conversations). And then likely also getting her cop checked, meaning she is both clear *and* a weak PR meaning the scum team would have to choose between killing her or a stronger PR. (or outed if scum, obvs)

eyyy chill chill you tryin' to get me shot by the mafia bruv ahahah

in all seriousness i'm fine being checked by hand of the king

I think this is a great idea. Would be great for analysis and teamwork.

[Titus]

It's not a full gamesolve but surface level, really?

idk I think your take on datisi and other slots feels half-baked

I'm not looking for a game solve

it specifically seems like your takes lack depth not breadth

I'm just getting going. When I feel where the pieces are, I'll get stronger reads.

VOTE: Dann

Deliberately tieing the wagons.

[Titus]

It's not a full gamesolve but surface level, really?

idk I think your take on datisi and other slots feels half-baked

I'm not looking for a game solve

it specifically seems like your takes lack depth not breadth

I'm just getting going. When I feel where the pieces are, I'll get stronger reads.

VOTE: Dann

Deliberately tieing the wagons.

do you actually have a read on me

Lean town

[Titus]

why do i even try to interact with mastina

pedit: why

Gamestate and consistency. You're a bit of a lightning rod, which suggests fear.

[Titus]

Honestly, I'm kinda liking mastina right now, she's kinda looking like a really good candidate for the King/Queen title, cause she seems like someone who'd really think out the people she nominates, I'm liking this catch up!! I do have some doubts though, so I'll hold off voting, catch ups like this are just so much easier for scum, like, yeah.. I'll wait for stuff in the present, but like, these 2 posts are literally enough for me to go "yesss!!! mastina the leader!!!"

You're pushing to make mastina queen when she's not read? Huh?

[Titus]

Honestly, I'm kinda liking mastina right now, she's kinda looking like a really good candidate for the King/Queen title, cause she seems like someone who'd really think out the people she nominates, I'm liking this catch up!! I do have some doubts though, so I'll hold off voting, catch ups like this are just so much easier for scum, like, yeah.. I'll wait for stuff in the present, but like, these 2 posts are literally enough for me to go "yesss!!! mastina the leader!!!"

You're pushing to make mastina queen when she's not read? Huh?

obviously not right now this very second... I swear Titus... you're just out for blood with me, ready to attack anything I say.... "OMG YOU THINK DANN MAF AND WANT HIM KING"
"OMG MASTINA HASN'T READ AND YOU WANT HER KING??" obviously not yet.. I'm not voting for her, I said IN MY POST "if she keeps it up she'd be solid"


ok whatever this is the opposite of fun, I figured I'd chill tonight cause I'm not here tomorrow, but frick this, I'm not stressing over yalls nonsense

I'm confused with your posting, not out for blood.

[Titus]

I find it really weird that Titus shared a summary of their views, and they completely skipped over my contributions as if I wasn’t even here. It’s bizarre.

@GuiltyLion, I think we need to speak more directly because I have you as King but I don’t really see you interacting with my posts all that much (though you did voice that one of my questions made sense), so I know you’re at least reading me somewhat. What do you think of say my Town core?

What do you feel you contributed? I don't recall your posts or positions, but maybe that's my ego.

[Titus]

I'm cool with either based on my limited engagement.

VOTE: Junko

For the drama.

[Titus]

Could have skimmed a page in the time it took you to fire off that self righteous post.

Why are you giving PP shit for that and not me?

[Titus]

Frankly at this point I kind of want to be King given I am running very low on faith in other people today.

Faith in people is overrated. I'm just waiting on someone to fuck up so I can clean up the pieces and hopefully not get miseliminated when right.

[Titus]

Lol i never hided

Also you also force mastina just because of that, so

Yes, I do, but I also believe she is the best choice for town. I have yet to receive any objective reasoning she is not, and until I do, I will continue thinking she is what's best for town.

Define "objective reasoning"? Why does mastina get special treatment while the leading wagons don't?

[Titus]

I'm at work. Long response posts need to wait for a computer friend.

Drunk Titus is skimming. Finding most walls worthless.

I don't like this mechanic fwiw. We could stick darts at a board and likely hit town. That means a popularity contest with bragging about early game skill is the right play but I can't be bothered.

[Titus]

First of, doesn't everyone? Aren't you just as unwilling to compromise as I am? If you were willing to compromise, then someone should have been elected by now.

I would say no, because your posting seems singularly focused. I am willing to compromise if my preferred king cannot get enough votes. Seeing as how he is the biggest wagon atm, I don't see the need to do so though lol

You seem to not care about the actual electability of the person you are advocating for.

Second off, what is wrong with me lobbying for who I think is the best possible candidate? Sure, I may be forceful, but that is because none of you are taking my arguments into account, while expecting me to take yours into account. Consider my stance and I will consider yours, basically.

I never said that advocating for Mastina to be king was bad in and of itself. You were right to make the case for the person that you wanted to be king.

The issue is that you seem to not be able to accept that other people have different experiences then you do with Mastina.

You are never going to convince me that my experiences were not what they were, just like I will never convince you that your experiences were not what they were either. -- But neither of us should have that as a goal imo

And instead, working towards finding someone that we can agree on :
-Would be a good king
-Is likely town.

You can likely sway people's opinions on whether someone is likely town, but I doubt you, or I, or anyone will ever effectively sway someone's opinion on whether another player "would be a good king" or not, because that is so incredibly subjective and based on each persons unique past experience with that player.

Basically focusing on doing so is locking yourself into an unwinnable battle.

And I wish you would instead focus on compiling a full list of people you think would be a good king and is likely town, and seeing how many of those alternatives actually have a chance to be elected.

Well, here is the list, from best to least best.

- mastina
- LLD
- Titus
- Me (Only by merit of knowing I am town.)

Rhea is "scumreading" me.
Rhea has me third on her list.

She's basically just kissing mastina's ass only.

[Titus]

Lol who is ignoring who Andres? I asked for your contribution and got crickets.

Also not sure how I feel about sharing a wagon with Rhea but no wagon is pure and I want DRAMA.

[Titus]

Junko's ahead

UNVOTE: Junko

[Titus]

VOTE: VP Baltar

Tied again!

[Titus]

Chaos Titus: Ooh a flashwagon drawing from both wagons. Let's ensure they're tied.
Town Titus: I should at least compare their reads.
Chaos Titus: Or nuke them all!
Town Titus: We're voting on someone who is town .
Chaos Titus: Why don't we force them to agree to work together?
Town Titus: That sounds like cohesive, rational thought which I don’t want to do on day 1.

[Titus]

Chaos Titus: Ooh a flashwagon drawing from both wagons. Let's ensure they're tied.
Town Titus: I should at least compare their reads.
Chaos Titus: Or nuke them all!
Town Titus: We're voting on someone who is town .
Chaos Titus: Why don't we force them to agree to work together?
Town Titus: That sounds like cohesive, rational thought which I don’t want to do on day 1.

that makes you like our 10th scum member according to mastina

your evil plan was genius Titus

Do the three of them have read walls? I'm too lazy to look but I want to do something productive other than read.

[Titus]

There are seven slots that need to be filled

LLD, GuiltyLion, VP, Junko, TsQ, Adante, DannFloor, Unowen have all gotten at least 3 votes to be king. Yeah I know that's 8 people.

This sounds like a perfect pool no one is happy with. Of course, you can always include me for ignorant chaos.

[Titus]

So this game is basically which king could bribe more players.

That is an elected kingmaker game. I'm legit trolling to get shit useful for me later.

What, you think kids outside the cool club have influence?

[Titus]

I find it interesting that there's an uncontested wagon without Shea on it. Not sure if Shea approved (haven't read) but vote patterns d0 suggest it's largely a town driven wagon. I'd like a counter for data purposes though given the fact Shea doesn't endorse. The king is in one of those positions where they're likely ignored because they can do what they want.

[Titus]

Big Words and High Production isn’t alignment indicative people.
That’s just a way to look Townie, wolves can do it too!

True. If it works, it works. I need data so I'm waiting to get it.

That and reality sucks.

[Titus]

Titus, can you tell me why you aren't really pushing for an alternative elim today so we have a competing wagon? It kind of seems like you're coasting and won't have a ton of material to analyze tomorrow.

I am coasting and I am waiting to where I'll be good at the game. If Dwlee is not a mistake, then speaking up is just annoying. Dwlee isn't a townread by any stretch. Since I get limmed after solving games, I'll just shut up until I'm uber confident I'm required.

[Titus]

Counterwagons naturally. Now info. I'll read soon.

[Titus]

Enchant [3]: unwnd, GuiltyLion, Andresvmb
VP Baltar [2]: Enchant, mastina
Datisi [1]: Dwlee99
Titus [1]: Andante


not voting [4]: Titus, Lukewarm, Charloux, Lady Lambdadelta,

Vote one of the leading wagons pls so we can yeet and I can get more posts.

VOTE: Dwlee

[Titus]

Titus VLA 24 hours, medical and work

[Titus]

In what universe is VP scum when he's trying to get me to engage and being fair about it?

[Titus]

Gonna restate these posts from Mastina:

>Shea said he had a strong townread on Dwlee.
>Shea said he would ONLY execute to save a strong townread (per the above, this includes Dwlee).
>Shea said he was considering MariaR for the execute. (Per the above, he would only pull the trigger to save a strong townread, so while considering her, he wouldn't actually execute her needlessly.)
>GuiltyLion and VP Baltar, knowing the three above, voted Dwlee up to L-1.
>Per the above, where Shea said he'd execute to save a strong townread, and had a strong townread on Dwlee, and was considering executing MariaR, he executed MariaR to save Dwlee.


@Shea also giving me tracker ability would be nice, I just took a look at Luke’s role.


Also another thing to point out I just want to bookmark there are 3 players, 2 are very likely wolves, 1 could easily be town but if they flip wolf they spew the other town.

Andante!Wolf (-) Enchant!Town
GuiltyLion!Wolf (-) Furtive!Town
VP Balter!Wolf (-) Titus!Town

Again, I’d like to request either VP or Guilty be executed today.

Nope. We do Dwlee.

VOTE: Dwlee

[Titus]

Are you really making the claim that the best play for town almost always is just lim the lurkers over the people they think are scum?

Like is that seriously your argument?

We should either a) eliminate Dwlee or b) eliminate MariaR scumreaders.

[Titus]

I don't like the idea of a VP or GL lim today. Both feel like they're kissing Shea's ass (or Shea is scum).

[Titus]

Drap, can you post your team again? I'm still a bit ill, so I had some difficulty finding it in your ISO. I think you're likely wrong on Dwlee but I relate to the energy you have and the gamestate so I'd like to vote somewhere we agree.

[Titus]

I explicitly plan to compare Drap's list to those who elected Shea king and pushed MariaR.

[Titus]

That would be a good compromise as I feel Shea was picked because he was easier to manipulate due to a lack of self confidence.

[Titus]

Thanks. My stance on the game is something I am developing now looking at the data plus what I know of personalities. Shea is not a hero type personality, yet he kingmakes an elimination from someone at L minus 1 despite claiming he's not good at town early.

This leaves two likely possibilities:

1) Shea and Dwlee are scum together and Shea uses his attitude to hide this fact. Unlikely but possible.

2) Shea is being pumped up to make hero shots. This benefits scum regardless of Dwlee's alignment. If Dwlee is town, they've saved a miselimination for later. If he's scum, they protect him. Shea would be targeted due to his low self confidence post in this scenario.

Now time to check votes.

[Titus]

*two most likely possibilities

[Titus]

GuiltyLion and VP being targeted for elimination when they were two other king choices is also telling which suggests scum don't want vocal voices to change directions.

[Titus]

Thestatusquo [7]: Bellaphant, Dannflor, GuiltyLion, Junkochan, Unowen, VP Baltar, Andresvmb

These were the Shea voters. According to the VCs, only Unowen and VP were on MariaR. Given gamestate, my second choice is Unowen.

[Titus]

Out of Drap's list, I could vote Andres or unwnd. PP's trajectory (assuming he has it right) doesn't match with what I feel scum's motivation is. GL and VP are out. So yeah...Andres or unwnd.

[Titus]

If you consistently play in a manner that leads you to help scum, I'll SR you. I'm not perfect in that regard as it does lead to a bit of omgus or scumreading a townbeard. I'm not as invested yet (illness and holidays) so my individual reads aren't as strong.

[Titus]

I don't like the idea of a VP or GL lim today. Both feel like they're kissing Shea's ass (or Shea is scum).

I think you mistyped this?
VP and GL been fighting Shea

Titus did you explain what you meant here?

Both as lim targets. That was unclear. Mb.

[Titus]

Titus, I'm not sure I follow why you think andres is scummy here. You think he has done scummy things or you're just PoEing him?

His pushback on me when I said I didn't remember his contributions felt bad but right now he's not a strong scumread. I'm playing mafia chess than mafia tunnel atm.

[Titus]

Already doing it GL.

[Titus]

Ok...Shea's town...

[Titus]

Ok...Shea's town...

Explain.

Have you read my recent posts? It favors Shea as agency captured town. You flying off the handle also suggests Shea is town.

[Titus]

*shrug* Thoughts on GL/VP?

[Titus]

There’s no evidence of Shea being hero pumped here at all. He’s been too quiet and lurky and no involvement.

Shea has not been lurky
We just had thanksgiving and it’s weekend.
Can we not accuse anyone of lurking during holidays

But the posts must be made to fit Math's theory!!!!

[Titus]

I'm with Fire.

[Titus]

What's that mean, Titus?

The online argument is crap.

[Titus]

The PT thing is fairish. Been sick with the devil's cold for ages. Struggling to keep up.

[Titus]

Sc2mafia is still a thing?

[Titus]

Sc2mafia is still a thing?

I don't get how scum Shea is so high?

[Titus]

I am in favor of VP's plan.

We lim Johnny. Appoint the scummiest based on his flip and overthrow. The plothole is, what incentive does Shea have to comply?

[Titus]

Shea, from his perspective, knows he's town. Therefore, setting up a total overthrow necessarily results in a town death. It also limits his control.

[Titus]

Can someone help me remotivate into this game? This is a large ask because I don't exactly know how I'm supposed to do that for myself, so I don't know how I'm expected to have someone else able to know.

But I'm very open to suggestions.

Let's try this. LLD we're a pair of washed up has beens.

[Titus]

I'm starting to consider the possibility that some of the stubborn people may be scum. Today should be quick and I feel like I might have to heard cats to get a real wagon.

[Titus]

I haven't read mech. Don't care to after 12 hour days. Let's murder someone.

[Titus]

Who are you voting Adante?

[Titus]

Either we let the king just handle it or overthrow the king.

Let's play mafia.

[Titus]

I haven't read mech. Don't care to after 12 hour days. Let's murder someone.

who do you wanna kill, titus?

@andante, go read my case on johnny from beginning of day and his posts in the council pt and tell me he's town

Johnny. I'd settle for Uno though.

[Titus]

that's the part i liked the least... you think titus is likely scum here?

I wouldn't say "likely" scum but I think she's a decent candidate for scum that I may be overlooking, and specifically more what I like about that read is less that I think it's necessarily 100% accurate but more that I think the process makes sense. Dann has a working Theory of the Game ("LLD was the scum pick for King") and then pulled out an interesting point on Titus 769 being a soft townread/push for LLD King with plausible deniability. Dann didn't call this out but if I'm running with that theory it's also interesting Rhae had

Titus

as her third pick for King in 1241, despite a fight between Titus and Rhae earlier in the game and Titus being one of Rhae's only main expressed scumreads (793, 969)

Mostly it just feels like a nuanced and novel take on the game that doesn't strike me as disingenuous or agenda-based, gives me the good solvey town!Dann feels

also, as an aside, this is not a super robust or strong meta point but I feel like my general meta vibe of Titus is that as town she is a lot more assertive and confrontational, prone to tunnels with frequent spots of moon logic. When she's scum she's more diplomatic and reserved, flying a bit more under the radar, and almost more reasonable than she is as town. Specifically I think games that give me this impression are HDP where she was town and relentlessly suspecting/pushing me the whole game, vs Situation Room where she was scum and chill, laid back, agreeable and I actually mistakenly townread her for that during most of the game until she got kind of POE'd out. Her play this game is starting to feel more and more like the latter to me.

Fairish. I'm not invested so I can't be assertive. I hate the whole reasonable as scum argument. I just don't care until endgame because hard trying gets me limmed when I'm right.

[Titus]

Replacing Andante

I hate when people sub for being FoSed.

[Titus]

hello my name is fire and im addicted to mafia

Hello fire. My name is Titus. Do you need a sponsor?

[Titus]

.... hm...

VOTE: Andante

That's now a fire vote and one I'm not 100% opposed to. Fire "caught up" too fast.

[Titus]

Redsir mb

[Titus]

Looking at the vcs alone, I dislike a GL flip unless we get close to elo. Fire and Drapion would be the eliminations since mastina is likely town

[Titus]

Looking at the vcs alone, I dislike a GL flip unless we get close to elo. Fire and Drapion would be the eliminations since mastina is likely town

reasoning behind these?

I am looking largely at the counter wagons at the time and excluding mastina. Basically, I'm looking for wrong way swingers and folks possibly encouraging mastina.

[Titus]

.... hm...

VOTE: Andante

That's now a fire vote and one I'm not 100% opposed to. Fire "caught up" too fast.

i was following along so there wasn't a ton to catch up on. i had some thoughts already and understood the main events of the game

i reread some sections surrounding the dwlee wagon and read the unsupporter pt, that's p much the only catching up ive done

why exactly does being "too fast" make me scum? are you saying that a scum partner was feeding me narratives to push and points to make and i just rushed into those without faking any reading? you've played scum with me before and i don't really believe that you think thats how id play this

I saw this as more rhetorical. I'm not sure whether you're scum. I just didn't like how fast you were caught up given game size. You following along is possible.

[Titus]

I'm fine with any but Dann. Doubt I'm getting elected. I am flying by the seat of my pants. No mech understanding here.

[Titus]

@Dat I know you like to believe your meta on GL and VP Balter are top notch but talk to Titus.

Titus in LOST Miss cleared Gamma Emerald for so long in that game due to meta.

(They also kinda miss cleared Taly but so did I and it wasn’t meta related though I don’t think.)

I did misclear gamma due to meta that game.

[Titus]

This game feels like follow the cop. I wish I could pretend that's interesting but I can't.

[Titus]

Can someone explain how this isn't follow the cop?

[Titus]

I mean I think the intended check on it being follow the cop is that all three of the involved roles are not alignment confirmed, nor is the king that assigns them.

If all those roles are town it does seem like it turns into follow the cop very quickly, which is why this game hinges on Datisi's alignment.

I agree it seems like a very weird mechanic to make the game hinge on, even if its only in one (everyone is town) world.

Can you clarify?

[Titus]

One thing I was thinking about last night is people keep bringing up this theory that scum are demoralized and I'm not sure I buy that world.

We've miselimed twice and the one scum flip had basically no associatives.

So I don't think scum is in as bad a spot as people seem to keep claiming they would be, which makes me worry the people saying that have an agenda.

Who fits with that?

[Titus]

Which part do you want me to clarify/which part do you not understand?

How the alignment of anyone but the cop would be in question?

[Titus]

Though the more I think about it, the cop just gets replaced with a different person and if the cop just keeps dying we just lim.

So its really only the master of coin and the cop itself whose alignments matter in this circumstance.

The cop would claim no money and basically turn into a 1 v 1 no?

[Titus]

VOTE: fireisredsir

[Titus]

strange post about maybe not wanting to be commander, then when I questioned her on it, she immediately self votes.

I feigned playing dumb. I didn't say I didn't want it.

[Titus]

I desperately want to be useful despite my hectic life

[Titus]

I do think if Datisi Never Dies we need to start walking down that paranoia road eventually, however I'm not sure yet if this particular moment is the right time for it, although I trust your intentions

namely despite my prior scumread on Titus I kind of think her reaction to being cleared has felt townie? specifically this:

Titus is playing weird all game saying she wants chaos, and in the Kingsguard thread made a strange post about maybe not wanting to be commander, then when I questioned her on it, she immediately self votes.

she said it was a reaction test to out scum, I think her thinking was maybe scum would try to argue she should not be Lord Commander despite being town, and I buy that explanation.

that said, I

do

think we need to start wondering why scum doesn't seem to be afraid of the cop. Like they killed Luke before they killed Junko, and then they killed Andres instead of the new doc Mastina. Why are they not worried about being guiltied?

Datisi should be limmed at elo minus 1 day if still alive.

[Titus]

I think mechanically when every PR is replaced, scum can never kill the cop.

[Titus]

If the cop is jked, then it's protected.
If the doc is killed, it'll be replaced.
If the doc fails to heal, scum in jailkeeper or doctor.

[Titus]

then they killed Andres instead of the new doc Mastina.

Exactly. why leave a supposedly CONFIRMED town alive for endgame?

Also, scum don't have any kind of strongman ability this game and are just going to each shit from cop clears until the game is over?

I know I'm paranoid, but the facts are wigging me out that this feels way too easy. I'm not saying we lim from that pool of people today because I'm probably just paranoid, but I really do not want Titus leading the Kingsguard I think. I don't care if it's GL or me, but I think blindly following these results is maybe too risky for me.

This is the reaction I expected scum to have. Plus your misrep is not good.

[Titus]

I find it odd that only the people FoSed find Datisi scummy and note GL and VP suddenly disagreeing on me. I think shea, drapion or dann might be good flips too.

I doubt VP and fire are both scum though it is fair to FoS Datisi as he must be eliminated at elo minus 1 day anyway. Just feels convenient.

[Titus]

Before I forget, Datisi must be eliminated at elo minus one (regardless of strength of TR). We want to lock in his checks and force scum into insane arguments like Datisi fake cleared if he's town. If he's scum, we want to not let him or scum have that argument in elo leaving us with no info at all.

[Titus]

I'm not 100% sure on GL and VP being the same alignment. Why is that being assumed?

[Titus]

I want to be commander but if I am not it, I'd rather GL.

[Titus]

VOTE: Dannfloor

I don't think my vote on fireisredsir is going to get any reactions.

[Titus]

I think we should lim Dannfloor because he's either lurking or dispassionate to the point where he needs to be replaced. I think the game is stalled until we do that.

[Titus]

I would rather have GuiltyLion on the counsel because I feel we can work together well and I think he's likely town.

Who precisely are my other options?

[Titus]

Your response reassessing me. You and Baltar were particularly in lockstep. Showing independent thought and your reaction to my reaction test was towny.

I feel if we both recognize each other as town, we can work well together, even if we disagree.

Can you answer my question of who to appoint?

[Titus]

It's nice to get confirmation that baltors Datisi paranoia was coming from town.

Agreed. I was starting to scumread him.

[Titus]

I want contributions to who I select. Otherwise, I may go chaos here.

[Titus]

Like nobody might like my suggestions.

[Titus]

Btw Chaos wins if mod locks

[Titus]

VLA Thursday through Monday

[Titus]

im less opposed to that than i am to most other challenges

id love like a drapion vs furtive challenge but i assume there's no chance of that lol

I am town.
I still think Furtive is Town.
I already said I felt Lady was town didn’t I?
Just as I said Titus was Town.

I’m not wrong here saying there is at least 1 wolf on the council.
Again, wolves are distancing.
@Mastina
Who’s your wolf team solve?

One at a time.

Who are you wanting today? Furtive?

[Titus]

mmmmmm

something feels off to me in this game

if all of my townreads are town then the POE is incredibly incredibly narrow and that is worrying me but I am not sure what to do

gonna sleep on it, might be back later before bed tho

I’ll say what to do.
What to do is Mastina is fucking WRONG.

It’s Narrow cause Mastina can’t open her eyes and realize at least 1 wolf is on the damn council.

Then how and more importantly why was there no nk...

[Titus]

im less opposed to that than i am to most other challenges

id love like a drapion vs furtive challenge but i assume there's no chance of that lol

I am town.
I still think Furtive is Town.
I already said I felt Lady was town didn’t I?
Just as I said Titus was Town.

I’m not wrong here saying there is at least 1 wolf on the council.
Again, wolves are distancing.
@Mastina
Who’s your wolf team solve?

One at a time.

Who are you wanting today? Furtive?

That should read if not furtive. Mama bear is tired.

[Titus]

Because LLD is pocketed and angry.

[Titus]

VOTE: Furtiveglance

Let's just wrap this up. No need to over complicate

[Titus]

VOTE: Furtiveglance

Let's just wrap this up. No need to over complicate

Yeah just keep it simple and bad. Easy townloss.

Why is it only the people on the outs are whining?

[Titus]

Because LLD is pocketed and angry.

??? Who is she pocketed by, and why are you characterizing her as angry?

Because it's easier to dismiss me as angry than it is to engage with me. Sadly.

I don't see anything to engage with....

[Titus]

E minus 1

[Titus]

E minus 1

ayo sssshhhh keep it quiet

Do you even think I'm Mafia Titus? You just said let's wrap it up. I don't want to be wrapped up, I'm not a Christmas present

I have a chicago cubs hat. This game is just on mech solve unless Datisi scum.

We test that world at elo plus 1 day.

Game is just simple follow the cop. I don't need to think. There's no VCA to do. I'm just bored. Not going to help scum though.

[Titus]

Yeah people need to understand that scum Datisi will make the following play.

Not die today.

Kill LLD tonight.

Get a red check on GL tomorrow.

Flip GL as town

And then Datisi dies and we have 1 ML and no info beyond Datisi clesred some people falsely which ones are bad.

That is a huge loss for us, more or less.

Then we doc you if furtiveglance is town.

[Titus]

E minus 1

ayo sssshhhh keep it quiet

Do you even think I'm Mafia Titus? You just said let's wrap it up. I don't want to be wrapped up, I'm not a Christmas present

I have a chicago cubs hat. This game is just on mech solve unless Datisi scum.

We test that world at elo plus 1 day.

Game is just simple follow the cop. I don't need to think. There's no VCA to do. I'm just bored. Not going to help scum though.

It's a mech solve if Datisi is town and we check Datisi today too.

The only difference between doing it today and TWO DAYS FROM NOW lile Titus is suggesting is the world where Datisi is scum becomes WAY harder for town to win in.

Who said two days from now? Unless my math is off, that's tomorrow...

[Titus]

I'm starting to think we fucked up bad by putting Titus as LC

Imagine the world where Datisi/Titus/mastina are scum. They are close to a scum king, a fake guilty tomorrow may be game winning already

Posts like this make me not want to follow you LLD.

[Titus]

i think if we're in the datisi town world we win and this doesn't really hurt us that much

i think the datisi scum world potentially becomes a concern sooner than i originally thought

the biggest point for me is that none of the checks have died. i think scum would have to basically be throwing in a town datisi world for that to happen

That's the rub though, I don't have a good response to what scum are doing beyond raging.

[Titus]

That's the rub though, I don't have a good response to what scum are doing beyond raging.

When you don't have a reasonable guess at what scum is doing, it's wise to hedge your bets in case someone you have been trusting has actually deceived you

Which is why the lim the cop at elo plus one day exists...

I don't see what limming Datisi gets us.

[Titus]

I challenge mastina

I did vote to flip mastina. I don't know what happened as to why she's alive. It's a good frame move tbh.

[Titus]

I forgot mastina can just execute.

VOTE: mastina

[Titus]

If mastina's town, she appears and accepts my challenge. If she appears and does not, she's scum.

[Titus]

[quote="In post 5220, Firebringer"

]I have a guilty on mastina.
she visited fireisredsir last night
she didn't have any gold

[/quote]

This supports mastina using a potion right?

[Titus]

I challenge mastina

I did vote to flip mastina. I don't know what happened as to why she's alive. It's a good frame move tbh.

who do you think it was

Not sure. I didn't think of mastina potion. That would lead to successive nightsguard deaths.

[Titus]

Titus
No one but me had money last night
Did u read council chat

I've been RL exhausted. Do potions and gold carry over?

[Titus]

Follow the cop game. It was fun but not mafia.

[Titus]

I love setups based on the olden days.

Me too

[Titus]

Additional Setup Information:

Master of Coin received 1000 - 2000 gold per day to distribute. This could be increased by investing gold for the future which would increase the low/high amount by 30% of the investment total up to 510 additional per day.

They could also borrow from the Iron Bank at a 50% interest rate.

Scum Hidden abilities were:

Spoiler: Mafia Bonus Abilities

Hand of the King

New Commands

Redirect a player to a new target at night.

Lord Commander of the Kingsguard

Kingslayer

Assassinate the Ruling Monarch

Master of Coin

Counterfeit Currency

You may provide fake coins that will not work

Master of Laws

Death in the Dungeons

You may execute the jailed player

Master of Whisperers

The Spider at the Center of the Web

Gain read access to a chosen PT for the night

Grand Maester

The Tears of Lys

The potion provided will kill the player if they choose to drink it.

If the normal version of the role requires gold to activate their role ability - you would also require gold to activate the mafia bonus ability.

for example instead of spending [redacted] gold on investigating a player - a mafia hand of the king may choose to spend the same amount to redirect a player.

if a mafia master of laws uses [redacted] gold to "jail" a player at night, it does not require additional gold to execute this jailed player.

This setup was based off one of my favorite mafia setups from my childhood; Oval Office Mafia. I am very glad so many of you enjoyed the setup and the flavor.

The town jumped out to a very strong lead early in the game when they managed to find each other and form a very solid townblock early in the game - the first small council had only one mafia in it! It was looking like a runaway townstomp but some luck with an early execution and some very daring investigation shenanigans allowed Datisi to pull his teammates into the exact positions that they needed to occupy on the council in order the execute a coup that would win the game outright. The amount of work Datisi put in to pocketing the members of two different large PTs was just amazing to watch.

On as early as Day Four when VP Baltar suffered a tragic dueling accident - the mafia team were within striking distance of winning outright. If Dannflor/Eiralox had not completely flaked - they could have won with a mis-elimination on one of the townies that were vulnerable and completely taken over the small council by assassinating the king and possibly using the potion to kill another councilor. Once Mastina ascends the throne she can unlock the jailkeeper kill for the mafia as well as execute to control dayplay.

Unfortunately a series of mistakes at this point led to the mafia team losing control of the narrative and Day Five was incredibly exciting to watch play out - the tide turned and the mafia had no chance to recover after that.

Using any ability on here is literally a scumclaim or narrow down scum.

[Titus]

I wonder if the correct play from Titus is to just let mastina die in the overthrow. Limiting the Poe to just kingsgaurd with you and gl just completely clear by play was a 0%er.

Not really sure there was a good play though.

I get trapped with too many clears bc follow the jailkeep.