Open 870 | White Flag Mountainous | Postgame

[furtiveglance]

Hi everyone, my name's Theseus, and I'm addicted to mafia.

[furtiveglance]

Hopefully Aubrey has fun at their new job if they ever see this

[furtiveglance]

Welcome!

Thank you CSF. Explain your D1 vote location and your current one, if you have one.

[furtiveglance]

Hi Thesus, what color was your role pm?

Are you going to read the game?

It was Town, which I think is brown on this site if I remember correctly

I have been periodically looking at the game, sort of thinking should I replace in, is the setup boring, am I addicted to mafia, and then I joined.

I remember thinking that Aristeia's eod looked more defeated scum than town, but I haven't read many of fire's posts so far.

TGP could be sus, haven't seen much.

At a glance I think the baseline for towny contribution has been lower this game than usual, so I will try to raise it.

[furtiveglance]

Interesting did you townread aubrey before you replaced in?

I didn't. I thought they were pretty neutral from what I saw, but like I said I didn't read intensely, just occasionally.

(No I'm not bussing my predecessor)

[furtiveglance]

like emotionally i am kind of spent dealing with this game and i think being dead and you knowing my reads are from town me is useful

the win condition is to lim two scum not to never lim town

there is nothing that is outside of my scumrange and the only way you know im town is if you flip me so why not do it.

My pain is eternal.

pain is how you know you're alive

i have never blamed you for anything

VOTE: ari

Ari how much would you say your scumgame seeks to emulate your towngame?

i try to make them look the same

im more sure of my read of una/lucian than your read of tgp

i dont even know if you are town.

We're probably disagreeing about the same posts so I'm not sure how to express my view

[furtiveglance]

It was also partly the Una pivot that made me think Aristeia was scum

[furtiveglance]

I'd love to see what you think of fire

With a quick skim, I'm remembering how similar they were in The Turing Test (Town) and Datisi's Cafe (Mafia) and just seeing that their ISO in this looks similar to both. Might be one to read on voting/associatives instead of tone

[furtiveglance]

Not townreading fire should be a crime but ok

Why is he unassailable town?

It's fire, it reads and feels like fire should, this is no longer a slot that's tainted vy

What experience do you have with fire? Look at their ISO in Datisi's Cafe.
Can you honestly say you scumread it? Give me some pointers?

[furtiveglance]

Gamma just seems like a zero info kill. So scum must be happy enough with the game state to some degree I guess.

I think this thought from Aubrey is towny right after they say they want to flip Ari, cause it points to a paranoia that flipping the counterwagon is gonna hit another towny

Can't post more for a while hopefully I can read a little bit today

Is this the entire reason you townread my slot? If not, can you explain it more?

[furtiveglance]

It's definitely cool that we only need to vote 2 Mafia. I will presently devote a bit of time to the Una wagon, because I remember thinking at the time that it was dodgy

[furtiveglance]

This sucks a bit because I had several tabs open while MQing so it didn't fully work. Regardless, I have thoughts.

VOTE: Una

I'm not sure if my current Klick vote is actually doing anything. And I know "giving Ari space" is a dangerous game if she's scum, but I dunno. I'm having doubts. I'd like other people's thoughts on her recent posting as well.

@Klick, mind giving an answer to the above? Who do you want to vote currently?

Pedit: lol

I played with Lucian in Open 859:C9++ and they were really obvtown, quite decisive and good reads. This feels very different and their back and forth with Klick looks worse for Lucian I think.

Who would you not vote rn CSF?

Shirou, Klick, STD, Pina, Norway

You, Aubrey, and Toto have made posts that pinged me as town on my catch up, but I need to see more.

VOTE: Una

Meh. CSF is usually townier, but nothing particularly scummy

VOTE: una

VOTE: una

i'm also pretty tired and frustrated and want a flip. i think una is +rand to be scum but this is not a strong read and i'd prefer ari, i just... want a flip more than i want to try to push for a lim on the ari slot.

I agree that this is a little bit 'prob town but I'm...tired of the game'? A bit off

Who replaced Lucian, time to go check. This will be a real dun dun dun moment for me

[furtiveglance]

Gimli...

[furtiveglance]

oh god

[furtiveglance]

I also think Toto's ISO is really scummy, that was my other big one

[furtiveglance]

Una scum.

We can just murder una and call it a day.

VOTE: una

Fairly baseless vote on town, which Toto came back to at eod.

I want to massmurder all anime characters.

I find jokes like this scummy

Yeah I want to murder tgp or shurro but can’t decide who yet.

I was scum reading una for the early town read on shurro. Specifically the comment about shurro being relaxed early on striked me as tmi’ed. Later posting from una has been ok and I wanted to give the slot a breather. If una scum maybe shurro town. Could also be scum theatre.

Norwegian I had an early town read on for pushing some of the things I was noticing, I’m not sure how I feel about them post shurro stunt.

Tgp push on shurro feels a bit forced and tunneled. Tgp would appreciate if you can share reads on other players.

CSF feels better than cakes so far.

I like ari more lately. Thanks for reads ari. Still a bit wary. I have issues trusting anime girls.

Lucian I have as null. I was nodding when he was complaining about thread noise but haven’t seen anything super townie either. Pedit oh some posts not caught up.

I guess I’m townleaning Aubrey now. Early posting looked like trying to blend in but I like they are pushing the thread in the right direction. I liked some of his reads. And been nodding to some of his posts.

Pina has contributed a lot but I don’t feel, I don’t really know how to put it, concise solviness. I see some of the thoughts laid bare which good but they lack skin in the game.

Klick putting shurro and pina in the same bucket in terms of play style is odd but I liked some earlier posting. Nulltown

Gamma idk to be honest. I have been pinged both ways. Nulltown.

Std not bad so far. Nulltown

So tldr I have to many reads close to null. This game is weird.

2 scumreads, but finishes with 'this game is weird lotta nullreads'. Not something I would do, I usually pick a scumread and push it quite hard

I'm obvtown

Self-interest

toto - town alpha cat
fire/air - town
std - town
pina - probs town

---- murder is not ideal but acceptable line -----

aubrey
csf

---- not gonna cry line ----

gimly
norwee
klick

---- murder is necessary line ----

Shurro / TGP

Tone is really jokey, it's as if they don't really care

Also something doesn't add up to me in the current game state,

There is definitely some resistance against Shurro. Aubrey, Norwee and Gimly have expressed resistance. So it can't all be scum team. Some townies are town reading Shurro, which I can get why given effort and frequent posting. I'm not really sure where Pina, Klick and CSF stand on this. I think Fire, std are ok with shurro dying. TGP also think Shurro is town.

I don't see as much resistance to TGP, klick is the only one that have expressed a townread on this slot. Una was scum reading TGP, Gamma was scum reading TGP. Ari thought TGP was town, but Fire thinks he is scum. Lack of resistance could be town indicative for TGP in this set up but maybe TGP is dead weight for the scum team. if scum!TGP someone in his team is willing to bus, apparently, or at least hasn't complained about him dying. Alternatively Gamma was a frame kill and TGP is town. But OTOH if they wanted to just frame TGP why just not kill me? OTOH if scum!TGP killing me was probably too obvious and killing gamma a good second best. I don't think I was widely townread so maybe keeping me around as a lim target also makes sense.

Given gamma was following Shurro around I think Shurro doesn't want to kill Gamma. Obviously there is wifom but IDK that it is worth it.

Then we have Aubrey saying this was a no info kill, which is odd. And Klick town reading TGP is odd, as Shurro points out.

Killing gamma points a bit at TGP but also takes away some power from Shurro.

If Shurro and TGP are both town I expect scum here to be wating on the sidelines taking or cautiously taking different sides... something like Gimly-Klick-CSF could make sense.

Point about gamestate is scummy because it's vague and hard to argue with, and just randomly dreams up a scumteam with no follow up on it

[furtiveglance]

I also think Toto's ISO is really scummy, that was my other big one

why toto iso scummy

and also can you go over how you're viewing shirou

especially with regards to una wagon

Shirou seems town. I don't even want to look too closely, I don't need to. He was just like this in NY Dance Party and seems like he's playing to die a bit

[furtiveglance]

I'm quickly realising that there aren't enough townread town in this, let alone a UTR.

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler: VC

Vote Count 2.03

Mount Odin
Baffin Island, Nunavut
Elevation: 2,147 meters

TheGoldenParadox (3):

fireisredsir, Gimli, NorwegianboyEE

fireisredsir (2):

furtiveglance, TheGoldenParadox

Klick (2):

Shirou, Toto

Shirou (1):

Save the Dragons

Not Voting (3):

giuseppina, Cat Scratch Fever, Klick

With 11 alive, it's 6 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is January 24 at 11:00 PM EST.

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2023-01-25 00:00:00)

Spoiler: TGP

this is a small thing, but i'd expect scum to go "here's 1 game of scum me and 1 game of town me" whereas someone with nothing to hide, i.e., town, would do what aubrey did and post as much evidence as possible

i mean in general presumably you don't want to rely on people's handpicked games as evidence of their actual meta
but yes? agree here

std is continuous in a way that makes me think they're town
(i think town implies continuousness but i think it's possible for them to make discrete jumps espz eg overnight. but during dayphases std flows from one read / opinion to the next that makes me tr them)

i mean aubrey hand picked 9 games that's a decent sample size and probably harder to hide

yep, seems reasonable.

i think the aubrey / furtive slot is obvious after furtive's recent posting, btw. townleaned aubrey before but happy to add this to townbloc now

I wouldn't be posting like this if I was town at the top of a VC. I think TGP is trying to look town by seeming uncaring, like a bluff.

Spoiler: Gimli

VOTE: gimli

For some reason i thought Gimli was Aristeia slot, but it's actually Lucian.
Hmm, i think that could be interesting.
VOTE: Gimli

How potato of you to still not know this

I'm seeing Gimli bussing TGP. Is that insane?

As for my vote, I'm weirdly more confident on TGP.

VOTE: TheGoldenParadox

[furtiveglance]

I'm seeing Gimli bussing TGP. Is that insane

I'm confused by this comment when what you quoted in spoilers have nothing to do with TGP

I mentioned them, I quoted their posts which didn't look right given their position at the top of the 'mountain'

[furtiveglance]

I meant my posts not tgps

Yeah I haven't read associatives at all

My read on you is more based on Lucian if that helps, but you do fit (as in you're not towny enough to overrule it)

[furtiveglance]

I think Klick is town and we should sheep him. Hope I didn't get pocketed

[furtiveglance]

TGP makes the most sense as an elim here, I think the resistance could be telling as well

[furtiveglance]

what resistance everyone wants him dead, except maybe klick

That's sort of my point, no one 'opposes' but people start new votes

Klick, explain yourself.

[furtiveglance]

catching up later but furtive whats the mindset here

1) klick is town and we should sheep him
2) you vote tgp (klick is the only one townreading tgp)
3) you say klick explain yourself on tgp

im confused what your perspective is here

Why does my townread townread my scumread

Perspective checks out to me but maybe I'm biased

[furtiveglance]

(i don't think scum is leading my wagon, and people who scumread me later on are more likely to be scum)

Who is scum on you?

Who are you gonna vote?

[furtiveglance]

I meant my posts not tgps

Yeah I haven't read associatives at all

My read on you is more based on Lucian if that helps, but you do fit (as in you're not towny enough to overrule it)

But why did you quote that post of mine if it had nothing to do with anything then?

I'm just trying to make sense of it is all, don't think it's suspicious

I thought you calling someone a potato fit with your scumgame, I should clarify that my read is partly about your play

[furtiveglance]

(i don't think scum is leading my wagon, and people who scumread me later on are more likely to be scum)

Who is scum on you?

Who are you gonna vote?

You should probably address fire and TGP though mate

Me?
I adressed TGP by voting them
Fire is a weird one

Team solve wise my reads lean towards TGP being town, but I think I'm more likely wrong and TGP is scum and Fire/you could be town

I'm not seeing the game in a clear way that has my gamestate thoughts and individual player reads aligning

[furtiveglance]

How are you saying 1) we should sheep klick and 2) we should kill tgp when klick is the only person in this game apparently townreading TGP? Why are you talking about sheeping klick anyway? So you know what sheeping means?

I said that because they have you/CSF as scumreads which I do agree with (sorry CSF)

I didn't actually see that they crossed off TGP

[furtiveglance]

This song creepy as hell

Why post it

[furtiveglance]

on the surface i don't love that furtive took like a year to answer why his mindset wasn't consistent and i don't think its a great answer but i also took issue with what i thought was an inconsistent mindset when he was town in house of the dragon so ehhh idk

I'm not happy with 'taking a year'. Literally what do you mean. I was out all day today and since I've got back I've been on.

[furtiveglance]

UNVOTE:
furtive's posting is good so far and I want more

giuseppina
Shirou
Save The Dragons
Cat Scratch Fever

NorwegianboyEE

TheGoldenParadox
furtiveglance
Gimli

Toto
fireisredsir

is approximately where I'm at right now

Ok so you guys lied to me, Klick isn't even townreading TGP

[furtiveglance]

ok nevermind im still confused

what post from klick are you referencing with 2000

I thought Klick sussed CSF somewhere but yeah I can't find it now. Just Lucian/Gimli then

[furtiveglance]

catching up later but furtive whats the mindset here

1) klick is town and we should sheep him
2) you vote tgp (klick is the only one townreading tgp)
3) you say klick explain yourself on tgp

im confused what your perspective is here

catching up later but furtive whats the mindset here

1) klick is town and we should sheep him
2) you vote tgp (klick is the only one townreading tgp)
3) you say klick explain yourself on tgp

im confused what your perspective is here

Why does my townread townread my scumread

Perspective checks out to me but maybe I'm biased

1 post later?????

[furtiveglance]

do you not see how that isn't an explanation

your perspective only makes sense given your explanation in 2000 that you don't really have any clue what klick's reads are

It was only then that people started talking (and misinforming me) about Klick's reads. 1985 answered your question in 1984.

I SKIMMED THIS GAME.

But the main thing is I checked the main wagon (TGP) and yeah they need to go. Judge me on THAT.

[furtiveglance]

but also, ari was scum,

I get that you've been scumreading Ari, but the confidence level seems too high

If TGP flips scum, fire would be my top scumspect tomorrow. I don't think fire has done anything particularly townread worthy, they've been giving me crossbussing vibes, and TGP's bizarre confidence in fire flipping scum only reinforces that

Seconded. Rescind anything bad I said about CSF

[furtiveglance]

mmm it’s like

i scumread thegoldenparadox too i do

but things do not feel

right

pedit: @save the dragons - i have more time to sit down and actually look at the game on weekends and would like to see shirou’s thoughts when shirou decides to return and it seems cat scratch fever wants to hear from klick as well and I certainly would not mind having more content there

and it’s like if thegoldenparadox is mafia sure partners probably aren’t going to try to heroically save thegoldenparadox at this point - only shirou’s klick push could really potentially be described as that and if so it was, uh, quite unsuccessful and given up on - but other random votes and heatchecks potentially noteworthy

but i don’t know maybe it’s unreasonable to delay on account of us if thegoldenparadox is actually inevitable

like furtiveglance has not felt particularly towny to me and i can sit and look through those aubrey games again tomorrow

TGP is flipping today.

The flip will be red.

You will be judged.

We all will.

[furtiveglance]

okay let’s assume thegoldenparadox flips red and i am not nightkilled; how would you judge me

In a judgy way.

I haven't read any of your posts apart from calling yourself obvtown rather awkwardly - 'it me', as I recall.

I will need to read more

[furtiveglance]

also the entire point of that post was with regards to you scumreading toto for things that are not actually scum indicative?

but now you are onto ‘thegoldenparadox is definitely a scums and fireisredsir is likely their partner’, so

pedit:@furtiveglance

TGP is my biggest scumread now

[furtiveglance]

maybe i'm swayed not to want to murder tgp immediately

Do not be fooled. This setup is based around scum not being able to bus. Why are people defending TGP when they need to die based on their awful posting and tone? Put your vote back on and reap the rewards.

'oh wow furtive are you saying Klick/giuseppina scum now? stop flip-flopping'

We'll cross that bridge later.

To all the other town, read TGP in isolation and block out the voices. Then vote them.

We are close to the top of the mountain, do not turn around.

[furtiveglance]

We have 11 players now. Vote off mafia today, and the game's basically ours. I believe in this vote enough to stake my life in this game/reputation (don't really have one but meh) on it

[furtiveglance]

I'm going to bed. If TGP has been hammered when I wake up, I'll be happy. If they haven't, I'll be annoyed. If the wagon has gone, I'll be livid.

[furtiveglance]

why are people so confident on things that they shouldn't probably be confident on

Did you read their posts

[furtiveglance]

i am like confident enough in fire scum to self vote immediately tomorrow and spend the entire day pushing for my own elim if they're town lol

i don't think ive ever in my mafia career had anyone have this high of confidence on me being scum lol, especially not when im town

that makes it kinda hard for me to believe it comes from a genuine place but maybe you'd be the first

i also thought ari was kinda obvtown tbh

but ive played with her a lot

Sell me on Ari obvtown

me when i feel like i own the game

maybe i'm swayed not to want to murder tgp immediately

the dragons have been saved once again, thank u <3

TGP is lolcatting

[furtiveglance]

Gimli I order you to put TGP at E-1 again

[furtiveglance]

lol

[furtiveglance]

Hold it.

CSF called TGP/Fire bussing but DIDN'T vote TGP???

[furtiveglance]

Call me a car for the rest of this day phase

[furtiveglance]

Ok.

[furtiveglance]

Gimli why are you townreading me?

[furtiveglance]

Aubrey was the towniest thing on D2 imo, you come in fires blazing, there are many hints of town in many of your posts and quite frankly I'm not sure you have a scum range where you replace in on D2 of a game like this and start to hard captain an elimination. Didn't play with scum you yet to be sure but I'm guessing your natural posting, presence and firey attitude don't come from scum

What's my read on you at the moment?

[furtiveglance]

What's my read on you at the moment?

You're asking cause you're townreading me but you can't be confident

Incorrect

I can't townread Lucian's ISO at all, I think you're mafia but you're giving me pause a bit

[furtiveglance]

Fireisred is townreading Lucian and from what I understood they know him better than you do (I think)

It doesn't matter now, we'll probably get lots of thread time for you to read me correctly

[furtiveglance]

Hold it.

CSF called TGP/Fire bussing but DIDN'T vote TGP???

CSF has been voting TGP since forever

do you guys not understand

this is scum posting

gimli/furtive have been trying to test waters for CSF since they came in

my opinion is that they need miseliminations and are trying to cook one on CSF.

I didn't know about the bolded. I haven't read enough of this game yet, and that's my bad. But yeah I no longer scumread CSF, pending TGP flip which I think is red. TGP red flip I'm happy to 'turbo-lim' fire.

[furtiveglance]

You need to case furtive especially if you think he is mafia

UNVOTE:

VOTE: gimli

it's either you or tgp today to me

your choice

do you like just have a bunch of anime gifs or do you go to like anime-gif.com and type in "shaking head no"

i search for them on the spot yes

It's TGP today, stop voting Gimli. Seriously. I don't care about the Captain stuff but TGP's posting hasn't been good enough to survive. Just flip em, they flip red I'm certain. Stop pivoting

[furtiveglance]

Shirou being a really weird one right now and I don't like it one bit. Vote off TGP, don't let 'em get away

[furtiveglance]

Gimli vote TGP ffs

[furtiveglance]

Gimli vote TGP ffs

Again, that's an order from the REAL CAPTAIN WOAHHHH

[furtiveglance]

No I like you. I just don't like Lucian!

[furtiveglance]

Hammer encourage, let's score like Sam Surridge

[furtiveglance]

Hammer encourage, let's score like Sam Surridge

so if you're sure you are right about thegoldenparadox and such so who do you think most likely partners are right now and such

instead of just asking for hammer you could outline this, no? as if you are town and right about thegoldenparadox maybe you get nightkilled yes? pushing hard for elimination of a mafia and such? and in that situation maybe your thoughts on possible partners would be helpful, yes?

like earlier you were saying gimli also likely due to lucian posting, is this completely independent of thegoldenparadox read? or do you think they are likely partners?

Fire should go next, I said so already.

Shirou giving me weird vibes lately

Toto still sus

There are other slots like STD/you that I don't townread and it could be

I don't care because I've become enlightened and I know this flips red

I've reached moksha

Vote if you're not already

[furtiveglance]

Fire should go next, I said so already.

why is fireisredsir likely partnered with thegoldenparadox? sorry if you have said so already i do not recall seeing this but it's possible i missed

or do you think fireisredsir should go next regardless of thegoldenparadox flip?

*TGP red*

When CSF said that TGP's weirdly confident post about fire being mafia was S/S, I got the same feeling and said so at the time

Check the receipts

*TGP red*

[furtiveglance]

you also said gimli was likely bussing thegoldenparadox, what happened to that?

Jury's out

I'm the jury

[furtiveglance]

did you mean 12 minutes

TGP is gone, they dipped

[furtiveglance]

did you mean 12 minutes

TGP is gone, they dipped

*he dipped,

and i don't really feel like repeatedly saying, why are you pushing for this immediately, so maybe give it a rest, toto has already given intent

My bad on the pronoun

And I'm just excited

[furtiveglance]

I get that Aubrey was hard to read. I didn't townread them before I replaced in. I'm here now. I'm town.

[furtiveglance]

I'll think I'll put TGP on E-1, someone else can hammer if they want

VOTE: TGP

[furtiveglance]

fire/furtive/tgp could make sense as a team

Counter: I would have voted Gimli today instead of TGP

[furtiveglance]

Toto we only need 5 more votes to hammer

[furtiveglance]

I think petapan could be paired for refusing to flip TGP

pedit yeah

[furtiveglance]

Shirou's push on me looks f$#@ing disgusting, and I never usually swear like that

But seriously what the actual f-

[furtiveglance]

This setup is based around scum not being able to bus.

Even if Furtive had the best anti-associations with TGP ever he should still go for this.

THIS SETUP IS ABOUT BUSSING.

IF YOU BUS YOU LITERALLY LOSE.

HOW CAN YOU DISAGREE. 3 IN 11, AND YOU NEED 2 TO ENDGAME

[furtiveglance]

I'm baffled and disgusted by the push on me.

It REEKS of scum

1v1 me. If you're town this is very much on you. Bring it

VOTE: Shirou

[furtiveglance]

Is that where 2 scum hard bus the other one in attempt to coast until endgame

WHO WOULD THAT BE IN THIS GAME

I know it includes me so I know it's wrong, and a bullshit attempt to try and excuse Shirou's exposing associatives

[furtiveglance]

Happy scumday, it's nearly mine

[furtiveglance]

Btw if it turns out that this is TvT and it's Fire/Toto or something, I blame Shirou bc I was about to lead on fire. I don't think they would derail the day to lead on obvtown as town though. Probably desperate scum with a teammate in danger

[furtiveglance]

whats your reason for thinking shirou's push on you is bad? why do you think you should be clearly town here?

Because you CHUCKLEF***S were about to vote someone else

And I FORCED the vote through

[furtiveglance]

shirou was one of the earliest pushers of tgp. you ended up pushing harder on tgp near the end. you think that shirou is mafia because he should think that you are clearly town for pushing tgp

why does the logic apply to you and not shirou

Counter

Give town motivation for Shirou pushing me today

[furtiveglance]

whats your reason for thinking shirou's push on you is bad? why do you think you should be clearly town here?

Because you CHUCKLEF***S were about to vote someone else

And I FORCED the vote through

I believe you fwiw but I'm potatoing the gameday and won't do much to save you here if people really want this flip

Oh god. It is just 2 of you/Fire/Toto then

Who we could actually get through ALL of if Shirou didn't start this shitty 1v1

Is it against the rules to accuse someone of throwing? Asking for a friend.

[furtiveglance]

thats not how that works. im asking how you can hold in your head at the same time both of these thoughts:

1) furtive is obvtown because he hardpushed tgp
2) shirou, who hardpushed tgp, is scum because he can't recognize this

I wasn't there for Shirou hardpushing TGP

I'll have a read but what I saw at the end of yesterday was Shirou 1) voting others like Gimli and 2) pairing TGP with me and you

[furtiveglance]

it doesn't make any sense to me why you went all in on shirou for this when even now you're talking as if he's town and you previously scumread me and i gave support for you to be wagoned

like the perspective there makes no sense to me

I'm not sure exactly who the mafia are, that's why

[furtiveglance]

We have 9 players, which is 2 votes before ELO. Can we agree that I should NOT be one of those votes?

[furtiveglance]

like i don't really get how you can be that confident in tgp being scum and not have understood the back and forth between tgp and shirou which was a significant part of a lot of people's reasoning for suspecting tgp

how is that possibly genuinely sorting the person if you don't even realize what the context was for some of the most significant posts of their iso

I already said why I suspected them. Their posting when at the top of the VC was incredibly weak and not alive to the situation.

[furtiveglance]

Reality is I need to actually get a proper look at the game and find a perfect 2 player bracket where at least one is scum

Then we can vote both before ELO

[furtiveglance]

I need time

UNVOTE: Shirou

[furtiveglance]

Btw Furtive i think if you are town that Shirou isn't scum for it. Shirou 1v1-ing you isn't scum indicative you just seem emotional because of his push. I would probably look at Fire or Klick next.

Get your vote off me, at least for the moment.

[furtiveglance]

My tinfoil is that furtive/Shirou both bussed and are now bussing each other not intending for either of them to be followed

I don't think this is actually particularly likely but it definitely crossed my mind

My dude

I have seen you play very well

What is this

What is it

What

[furtiveglance]

Yeah It is somewhat irrational.

Pina is just that Shurro scum is what my gut tells me.

Fire scum is what logic tells me.

I dont think fire should be allowed to endgame in any case.

We have three shots left using one on fire like good ev to me.

I can agree, I still think Ari eod posting and the pivot to Una was dodgy. Fire not impressing me especially either

I feel like there's a way to solve this somewhat mechanically, and it starts with you/Fire not being scum together

And if we can get enough not scum together AND accept a few players as town e.g. me/CSF/giu/Norwee for instance, then there could be a mech solve where we vote out [x,y] where one HAS to be mafia

[furtiveglance]

We need to go

BACK

[furtiveglance]

anyway thanks mr moderator don corleone

[furtiveglance]

Like I know thats like walking into tgp ‘master plan’ but its very possible things got out of hand and they fucked up the antiassociative like the other cat said.

There is also tinfoil shurro/tgp/fire but that requires a pretty dumb ultra white flag gambit. Is interesting niether of them want to lim each other today though.

We can try to ‘mechanically solve’ like that but I think that can backfire pretty easily if we get one fact wrong. Which given how many facts you have to get right at the same time is not unlikely at all.

Lets just murder the person more likely to be scum today.

I'm thinking

But yes I think Fire is scummy

[furtiveglance]

maybe it's Furtive/Toto

who knows I don't I just know there's prob scum in my PoE and it's hard to find motivation to post because I think people in my PoE are clearly scumposting but votes aren't being thrown yet

All I have done is replaced in and led on mafia. How can you possibly justify your absurd view?

[furtiveglance]

do you guys really think that abnormal confidence Furtive gets on scum!TGP when he begins to get poked by others is normal?

It's very likely not

He was trying to shade other slots for not voting TGP even before the flip

It all looks like almost crystal clear scum agenda of lining up miseliminations due to his partner flips

I believe he also unvoted me only because people weren't too into a shirou wagon atm, I think if he was town and really believed his read, he would stand his ground more and explain why I'm scum here in his view

I don't care if you guys go along with me or not Furtive is still scum to me regardless and I'm gonna insist on him, but look at Furtive instead, he's trying to gauge who is viable or not here and clear himself for the flip

p-edit lol

I'm not gonna accept losing to you if you're mafia. So if you continue down this path I will literally just omgus you with everything I have, and if we are both town and lose, I will blame you.

This is your choice.

[furtiveglance]

maybe it's Furtive/Toto

who knows I don't I just know there's prob scum in my PoE and it's hard to find motivation to post because I think people in my PoE are clearly scumposting but votes aren't being thrown yet

All I have done is replaced in and led on mafia. How can you possibly justify your absurd view?

do u guys not understand

this needs to die pls

I literally single-handedly led on TGP D1 when no one else believed on it and he's scum reading me anyway and thinks fire looks better than me when fire/ari slot was what made us not eliminate TGP D1

It doesn't look real

Can we just win the game by limming Furtive and if wrong Fire?

Please and thank you

If somehow that doesn't win the game I can effort here but it does win the game in my head I would be beyond confused if it doesn't

This is just lying about me. I am scumreading Fire

I need slots like CSF/giu/Klick to step up and think logically because I'm as of now locked in to trying to kill Shirou

VOTE: Shirou

[furtiveglance]

please do omgus because if me flipping makes you/Fire go down next I think it may not be the worst deal although I want you guys eliminated first of course

Like

do I need to case myself on why I'm not scum here given how TGP treated me?

Do you really think that random town read after "suspecting me" is an attempt at distancing? He just realized he couldn't touch me yet

If we're both town, do you accept the blame?

[furtiveglance]

I will now dedicate time to trying to cold read the remaining players' ISOs, with 4 players flipped

[furtiveglance]

I've read some but not all

Don't hammer before I can say my piece.

Going to sleep now

[furtiveglance]

im worried about the possible world where furtive is town

makes this a loss when it really shouldn't be

'possible world'

No matter the result of this game, I will have things to say in post. Seriously the scumreads on me are next level BS and I can't wait for postgame or dead thread to console me

[furtiveglance]

I might as well say for posterity which ISOs I read so far:

Ari/Fire
Lucian/Gimli
Norwee

And it's given me a massive headache

Don't hammer tonight, let me think on this.

[furtiveglance]

im worried about the possible world where furtive is town

makes this a loss when it really shouldn't be

'possible world'

No matter the result of this game, I will have things to say in post. Seriously the scumreads on me are next level BS and I can't wait for postgame or dead thread to console me

can you please explain why it is so BS

like more BS than the scumreads on me

you know i was pushing tgp the entire time i was in the game as well, right?

Your ISO is characterised by a continuation of Ari's push on Shirou. I just read it. You DO push TGP a bit on D2, but it's together with Shirou

[furtiveglance]

im worried about the possible world where furtive is town

makes this a loss when it really shouldn't be

'possible world'

No matter the result of this game, I will have things to say in post. Seriously the scumreads on me are next level BS and I can't wait for postgame or dead thread to console me

Lol.

Btw, you're basically POE town at this point. There are too many scummy slots for you to be Mafia. So you have a responsibility to vote correctly and guide others. Don't just say lol and sleepwalk into a loss.

[furtiveglance]

i don't think i ever wavered on tgp being scum to my memory at least

i just continued to try to sort and solve elsewhere as well

'Possible'

You know what, I'll stay up for a bit longer.

[furtiveglance]

I think Shirou is actually town for the Norwee nonsense and the TGP/Lucian scumreads. There's a point around 842 onwards when Shirou votes Lucian and then TGP votes Ari shortly afterwards...might be the key to the whole thing.

Shirou, I'm choosing integrity over pride. If you played me and win then fair play. All I can do is say what I think and hope I'm right.

[furtiveglance]

Cakez/CSF looks very town. I'm willing to locktown the slot

Toto actually looks townier than I first thought on replacing in. I don't think he fits as a TGP partner.

[furtiveglance]

My tinfoil is that furtive/Shirou both bussed and are now bussing each other not intending for either of them to be followed

I don't think this is actually particularly likely but it definitely crossed my mind

My dude

I have seen you play very well

Wait a second is this even true
I thought you thought I played terribly in Cosmos
When did I play well

C9++

You shot Mafia N2 and most/all of your reads were right

I think I did a bad job of explaining myself in Cosmos, but yeah not your best game

[furtiveglance]

I think Klick is town from his posting. Only thing giving me pause is not voting TGP yesterday and then hammering after the hammer

But that would be weird as either alignment I think, probably weirder as Mafia

The crossing off actually looks really good and Fire/Gimli yesterday is similar to where a lot of people are now

[furtiveglance]

I think giuseppina is Mafia

I don't know why she's been townread.

Entire ISO is intellectual posturing and has barely voted/given clear reads

Someone talk to me about giuseppina

[furtiveglance]

well i don't agree with that

'splain it to me

[furtiveglance]

If anyone's doubting how heavily invested I am in this game...

I'm reading people's ISOs with this song playing on a loop:

This is very intense

[furtiveglance]

including i think even being the first to suspect tgp

I don't think this is accurate, can someone fact check?

[furtiveglance]

do you think voting is the difficult part of being mafia? voting is very easy to do. you just type the tags and then put a name in the middle

it has given very consistent nuanced thought and has often been one of the first to point out something about the game that was insightful and correct

including i think even being the first to suspect tgp

that's not easy to fake as mafia, and just the general eagerness to engage with the game without any real need to show itself as town in the way that certain people require (such as the people demanding that it vote)

it's all just very pure imo

Can you point to decisive stances that it has taken?

[furtiveglance]

i do appreciate the thorough reading, i did find it somewhat frustrating a couple days ago or whatever when it felt like you were taking strong stances on things without having actually read the things that were relevant

so ty. imo if you're town then this approach makes you findable

To me, I did read what was relevant

But I'm sure you can understand that with such a large game you can't read everything

[furtiveglance]

1 day after your scumday

[furtiveglance]

Tgp is probably town for that.

eh scumreading someone who is active and generally being townread by the game is a pretty good way to occupy your time as a scums

is it something more than ‘i don’t think a scums would push shirou here’?

(also if i squint the responses to first two quotes thegoldenparadox commented on feel like

hmm

very similar? to posts i had just made

but may be a coincidence of course as discussed earlier

but like, the toto is towny and then the look shirou is scummy for having a secret read when i have just said a toto post was good asked about sircakez’s secret read,

maybe i am meant to say, ah maybe it is scummy and sircakez’s having a secret read is scummy! or maybe i am meant to think, ah similar thoughts! thegoldenparadox is probably town! or maybe simply a coincidence

but there have been A Lot of posts since thegoldenparadox last posted and those are the ones he chose to comment on)

these are the posts im referring to which came directly after tgp's re-entrance to the thread (he didn't post between 90 and 614)

i should include the caveat of "first to suspect outside of rvs". i think people may have suspected tgp for his early posts and possibly for his disappearance, but this was the first serious game-related contribution that he was making once we got out of the early stages and giuseppina was the first to point it out as suspicious

Ok

I just think the style of this is such that (intentional or not) people won't read it and think 'dayum I gotta vote this TGP, sounds scummy af'

They'll think more like 'wow giuseppina sure is thinking' (that's the intention I think)

Also. The vote didn't come until MUCH later

[furtiveglance]

do you think voting is the difficult part of being mafia? voting is very easy to do. you just type the tags and then put a name in the middle

it has given very consistent nuanced thought and has often been one of the first to point out something about the game that was insightful and correct

including i think even being the first to suspect tgp

that's not easy to fake as mafia, and just the general eagerness to engage with the game without any real need to show itself as town in the way that certain people require (such as the people demanding that it vote)

it's all just very pure imo

Can you point to decisive stances that it has taken?

why are decisive stances a requirement for someone to be town? again, i don't think that's the aspect of its play that is difficult to fake as mafia

you can argue that taking decisive stances is pro-town because it moves the game forward. but i don't think that "someone who doesn't take decisive stances is mafia" is valid if they are moving the game forward in other ways by being present and commenting on posts and providing thoughts and engaging with people

Difficult =/= risky. If giuseppina is mafia this game, I'd categorise the game as 'difficult but safe'. Taking stances is riskier because you get scumread for it.

Why are you saying giuseppina is town because what it's doing is difficult to do as mafia? It's an experienced player. Besides, I don't think it is that difficult by the looks of things. It said it studied psychology or something

[furtiveglance]

No comment I guess. I am not allowed to comment on anything about that replacement, for instance its timing. That would be against the rules

[furtiveglance]

i agree that it didn't actively try to convince anyone to vote tgp but it didn't do that for anyone

it's just a playstyle thing it isn't scummy

you can go read other games to see the same style if you want to

If you're just gonna call everything 'meta neutral', what's the townread for? Just shading TGP?

[furtiveglance]

I meant philosophy yeah

You can disagree but if I'm right you gotta give me the daps

[furtiveglance]

sure okay

id be super impressed by its play if im wrong and i would give credit to people who weren't fooled by it

i really can't see it tho

There's a chance that I'm just scumreading the style and if I'm right it was a guess

But my read was also partly POE

[furtiveglance]

poe is also somewhat concerning me because im starting to feel like people who were in my poe (you/shirou) are feeling more like town

that was why i started reconsidering on norwee earlier

Norwee keeps towntelling/townslipping in his ISO

[furtiveglance]

If you're not going to provide any reasonings then what's the point of ur push Shirou. Do you think i'm so easily limmable you can just say you got me and that's enough?

I'm gonna provide some reasons tomorrow, just not what I believe to be the meta tell.

Either way Norwe...you seem more interested on knowing why I'm scum reading you rather than having a problem with the read itself?

What do you expect? An outrage? I get scumread and tunneled as town almost every game.
It's routine to me at this point, identify cause for the scumread. Try to identify if attacker is town or scum. Dismantle the argument. Try to put focus on the real mafia.

Tgp is probably town for that.

I also didn’t particurarly like the theories about Shirou bussing from Aristeia. I think it’s to the interest of scum to make Shirou’s reputation falter in this game because there are no nightkills so mafia must really try to make the powerful and potentially problematic players less influental. And Shirou imo is probably one of the strongest players in this list simply because of how menacing he is. Scum nightkill them early almost every game no matter how bad their reads may be at that moment.
Not fanboying, just an observation.

there are nightkills

I thought mountainous meant no nightkills.

If this is scum, I'll just have to cope. But it isn't

[furtiveglance]

their* ISO

[furtiveglance]

i also kinda had written him off as town and i keep coming back to that but im not as sure as i would like to be

Do you enjoy this? The not-knowing

[furtiveglance]

Replacing giuseppina.

hm

it's me again isn't it

i'm sorry i'm a petulant child that keeps screaming until i get what i want but idk if i can ever change or if i want to change bc if neither of fire/furt is scum this game is wild and i want to see it with my own eyes asap

I'm about to blow your mind

I don't think Fire is mafia. I re-read Ari/Fire and I don't think so

[furtiveglance]

Replacing giuseppina.

hm

it's me again isn't it

i'm sorry i'm a petulant child that keeps screaming until i get what i want but idk if i can ever change or if i want to change bc if neither of fire/furt is scum this game is wild and i want to see it with my own eyes asap

Shirou, what happened to your Lucian read. Why did you drop it

[furtiveglance]

i also kinda had written him off as town and i keep coming back to that but im not as sure as i would like to be

Do you enjoy this? The not-knowing

thats an interesting question and im not exactly sure what you mean

i find the puzzle of trying to solve the game to be enjoyable, so i guess yes in a way? but in this specific case for the sake of solving the game it would be easier to do so if i did know norwee's alignment

This is my favourite part of Mafia

Trying to work out who it is, it's just the essence of the game

Quite stressful tho

[furtiveglance]

i'm about to blow ur mind furtive

i love chatting with u in sitechat but after many hours thinking i still want u exterminated in this game

s2

You're never in sitechat

Are you an alt?

[furtiveglance]

This is my favourite part of Mafia

Trying to work out who it is, it's just the essence of the game

Quite stressful tho

i agree then yea

i think the most exciting part (of playing town, since i usually enjoy scum more) is when i think i've found a solve or when i realize i was wrongly townbinning a scum who's been playing a really good game

i have trouble expressing those solves confidently though because i feel a lot of intense embarrassment and shame when i get things wrong

so i guess the overall more fun experience is the process of sorting it out

I feel dirty and violated if someone i strongly townread is scum.

Yeah but that's the risk you take for the glory of being right

[furtiveglance]

that just leaves klick and gimli which. feels unsatisfying to me

which brings me back to shirou

Why is this unsatisfying? If you're town, i think my solve actually goes to klick/gimli

I think Klick is town, but Gimli is my biggest scumread by a mile. A country mile. I think Lucian's posting was extremely weak and has bad
associatives with TGP

I may as well put a vote down because I think Gimli's elimination ends the game. I was waiting for most/everyone to be here and people are now

VOTE: Gimli

[furtiveglance]

like i dunno gimli ending the day strongly townreading me and furtive just doesn't feel like someone who has planned ahead very far as scum

which like

it's possible that he is just scum who didn't plan ahead very far and then that's why he kinda limply came into the day with "well you guys can lim furtive. i disagree but i won't stop you"

like tbh thats probably more likely than him doing that as town

i guess i just usually assume scum have more of a long term agenda and goals and he would really need to not die as someone in the poe

Completely disagree

If Gimli was town he would have told everyone I was town more strongly. Not even sure why he claimed to townread me so early on into my arrival, scum positioning only thing that explains both

[furtiveglance]

Gimly feels too scum to be scum sometimes. I can do kick.

Still not sure about Fire. He is too calm and calculated for my taste.

You've had Gimli in your scumpool for years. I just read your ISO. Why not vote them now, 'too scummy'?

[furtiveglance]

i do think that probably someone who std scumread is scum tho

Which players? I didn't read the dead players

[furtiveglance]

I think Shirou is actually town for the Norwee nonsense and the TGP/Lucian scumreads. There's a point around 842 onwards when Shirou votes Lucian and

then TGP votes Ari shortly afterwards...might be the key to the whole thing.

Shirou, I'm choosing integrity over pride. If you played me and win then fair play. All I can do is say what I think and hope I'm right.

About the bolded, I've read that TGP post at least ten times now

The Ari vote was also the post that TGP quoted out of order... Like TGP went back and added the quoted post to vote Ari. Idk if that's a bus or scum trying to push through a vote on town!Ari

Really interested in what others think. The TGP post is 865

Not about that post, but about TGP D2 eod on Fire, I initially agreed with you that it looked bussy. But, now I think I just agreed that it was too desperate/convinced to be town, regardless of Fire. I think TGP seemed like quite a savvy player, and by my estimation not the kind of player to obsess over their teammate in a WF setup. Probably hoping we fell for it and voted Fire today

[furtiveglance]

Yeah he is scummy. But I put him in the same bucket as you (not sure if this is his just his playstyle).

Just feel klick is scummier and more agenday.

If gimly has an agenda idk what that is.

With me?

[furtiveglance]

Several town are clowning right now which is frustrating. Can we just elect CSF as the golden obvtown Captain and give her 2 day vig shots?

[furtiveglance]

gimli's eod posting was pretty bad

Just vote with me, you know you want to

The sweetest revenge against Shirou is to prove him wrong

[furtiveglance]

i don't feel any need to rush while we're waiting for a replacement who may be able to provide new insight

Oh right you still think that slot is town

(Might be)

[furtiveglance]

gimli is literally next in my poe are u guys trolling me

what do you mean by this

Did you even announce that beforehand

[furtiveglance]

i did feel lucian's interactions with ari were somewhat awkward but i always think he sounds a little stiff when he types in lucian-style which makes it kinda hard to judge

Just go and read Open 859:C9++ for some obvtown good reads Lucian. It's night and day, seriously. It's so much more blunt, direct, say-what-you-see. Genuinely good solving

[furtiveglance]

im pretty aware of his town and scumranges already

Why aren't you voting Gimli then? Do you think this game's Lucian looks remotely towny?

[furtiveglance]

Don't worry about ending the day, I'm currently all alone

[furtiveglance]

im worried about the possible world where furtive is town

makes this a loss when it really shouldn't be

'possible world'

No matter the result of this game, I will have things to say in post. Seriously the scumreads on me are next level BS and I can't wait for postgame or dead thread to console me

furtive, serious question
Why should I be townreading your slot *outside* of your push on TGP yesterday?
I don't think a bus from you on TGP yesterday is unrealistic

I thought your general demeanor and confidence was towny yesterday, but considered as a whole, your tone has been really consistent in a worrying way. Your confidence feels like a facade because it's no different from how you were yesterday.
I think it's entirely possible that it's a facade of confidence coming from town. But it definitely doesn't feel genuine.

So talk to me. What kind of confidence do you *actually* have on your current reads?
What are you doing differently here as town that you wouldn't do as scum?

I'm extremely confident that voting Gimli ends the game. Not really sure on the other Mafia.

My tone is too consistent...meh. I've given my reasons. Besides, I briefly thought it was Shirou, remember? I know that's reads not tone but still.

Idk what I'm doing that I wouldn't do as scum. Voting out Mafia is the best answer I have.

[furtiveglance]

im probably voting there in spirit but i don't have interest in ending the day soon so im not voting yet

I don't like this, it feels like you were waiting for people to start going after my slot so you could readjust your treatment of it

I don't like possible mislim 1

I also don't like furtive widening the scum pool to add Giuseppina and then being angly around the replace out.

I don't like possible mislim 2

Besides, Gimli is free to explain why he townread giuseppina. But no, he just tries to put the boot in. Of all my posts to comment on, of which there were probably 20+, he chooses to call me out for angleshooting? This is a scumclaim. He didn't care about what I had to say, just looked for ammo to use against me. Agenda.

Wrt furtive and fire's expectation that I'd be hard defending furtive today, I think shirou's case makes a lot of sense and can see the way furtive comes as a replace in with TMI and a longshot plan. He was way too confident coming into it which made me strong townread the slot, but who tf replaces into 60+ pages of game and has strong precise reads like furtive had? Something is probably off

This is just hiding behind Shirou and repeating his paranoia (who btw, seems to know that fire and I are town, and wants to mislim us both for a 'more exciting game'. Is this what others want? Or do you want to actually win.) Anyway, Gimli's suggestion that I couldn't rep in, read TGP as scummy, and vote them (especially as they were top of the VC) as town is an extremely weak one. It appeals to those town who were less right than I was D2, and if you fall prey to your own bitterness and insecurity about that then it's just embarrassing for you.

TLDR is basically read these posts yourself and really TRY to consider town!Gimli. Is this all he would have to say atp? Superficially criticise the other possible votes with the arguments of others? No. Gimli is scum, his elimination ends the game.

Vote with me

[furtiveglance]

I also don't like furtive widening the scum pool to add Giuseppina and then being angly around the replace out.

@furtive: your case against Giuseppina amounts to nothing.

I'm not in the mood to explain why I think she is town, I think I've done that many times already, nor do I feel like thunderdoming with you. I don't like what you're doing this gameday, you're widening the scum pool and setting up eliminations, you say you read the entire game but I don't see it, all I see is a bunch of big boy confidence that is easy to fake as a wolf

Why not want to thunderdome with a player you think is Mafia?

[furtiveglance]

What, why would you say there is bitterness and insecurity involved in players not reading TGP as scum in D2.
Is this a fact?
Lmaoo.

I'm not saying there definitely is, but the argument that no one could possibly have seen TGP being mafia and therefore I must have been informed the whole time relies on insecurity

[furtiveglance]

im worried about the possible world where furtive is town

makes this a loss when it really shouldn't be

'possible world'

No matter the result of this game, I will have things to say in post. Seriously the scumreads on me are next level BS and I can't wait for postgame or dead thread to console me

furtive, serious question
Why should I be townreading your slot *outside* of your push on TGP yesterday?
I don't think a bus from you on TGP yesterday is unrealistic

I thought your general demeanor and confidence was towny yesterday, but considered as a whole, your tone has been really consistent in a worrying way. Your confidence feels like a facade because it's no different from how you were yesterday.

I think it's entirely possible that it's a facade of confidence coming from town. But it definitely doesn't feel genuine.

So talk to me. What kind of confidence do you *actually* have on your current reads?
What are you doing differently here as town that you wouldn't do as scum?

Bolded is what's weighing on me now

Is it really

Let's say a player has x confidence. If they're right about a day's elimination, especially mafia, will that confidence increase or decrease?

[furtiveglance]

im worried about the possible world where furtive is town

makes this a loss when it really shouldn't be

'possible world'

No matter the result of this game, I will have things to say in post. Seriously the scumreads on me are next level BS and I can't wait for postgame or dead thread to console me

furtive, serious question
Why should I be townreading your slot *outside* of your push on TGP yesterday?
I don't think a bus from you on TGP yesterday is unrealistic

I thought your general demeanor and confidence was towny yesterday, but considered as a whole, your tone has been really consistent in a worrying way. Your confidence feels like a facade because it's no different from how you were yesterday.

I think it's entirely possible that it's a facade of confidence coming from town. But it definitely doesn't feel genuine.

So talk to me. What kind of confidence do you *actually* have on your current reads?
What are you doing differently here as town that you wouldn't do as scum?

Bolded is what's weighing on me now

Is it really

Let's say a player has x confidence. If they're right about a day's elimination, especially mafia, will that confidence increase or decrease?

Your confidence seems manufactured and not real towny evaluating, it has no nuance it has no distrust or second guessing itself. You talk about being right about one slot as if this is your first ride.

It is my first ride this game. 1/1

[furtiveglance]

Im not seeing the where the confidence on Gimly scum is coming from. How else would you expect town!gimly to react here?

Do you generally push your reads like this as town?

I haven't felt like this in a while

[furtiveglance]

Im not seeing the where the confidence on Gimly scum is coming from. How else would you expect town!gimly to react here?

Do you generally push your reads like this as town?

I haven't felt like this in a while

But Gimli would have more to say

[furtiveglance]

I guess I am still interested in what towny things furtive saw in his reread of Ari/fire

Yeah

I think with Ari, I didn't realise before but they had a consistent push on Shirou/Lucian

Fire hasn't been the towniest but real time interaction makes me townread him a bit. Bigger argument is Gimli is scum and tried to kill Fire

[furtiveglance]

I guess I am still interested in what towny things furtive saw in his reread of Ari/fire

informed people issues i think

we should try to be more understanding

You unironically should try to understand more, because your understanding is severely lacking

[furtiveglance]

I don't know what giuseppina replacement is going to add at this point. More of a replace so that the game can continue

[furtiveglance]

Shirou I'm expecting an apology in postgame for this if you're town

[furtiveglance]

Scratch that, that was rude of me

[furtiveglance]

What I mean is that I think you're wrong town and it's annoying me

[furtiveglance]

how can you be so confident that fire is also town it makes no sense tell me one game where you used this kind of AtE it just doesn't feel like the kind of thing you would do

How can I be confident that fire is town? Fire/Gimli isn't S/S, we can agree on this surely. And Gimli, my top scumread, tried to hammer fire.

Tell you a game in which I used AtE? I haven't really like this before. In any game.

It doesn't feel like something I'd do - I presume you mean to say (as town). Well, it is. I've never before been in a situation where I think I should be such obvious town, and someone I think is town is scumreading me.

[furtiveglance]

even if you would know i'm wrong on you how can you be so confident that fire is town like what the hell you aren't talking in possibilities at all you're acting like you know 100% that fire is town wtf

i also have gimli as the third candidate

I think you're reading too much into my word choice. I'm much stronger on Norwee and CSF being town than Fire, for instance. It's just what I currently think

[furtiveglance]

i'm not apologizing either if i'm wrong i don't think objectively speaking you deserve to be town read

voting scum alone isn't enough to clear someone furtive i don't understand you

Yeah that was dumb of me to say

I just found your head-wall gifs annoying

[furtiveglance]

what's UP crew

Have you been reading

[furtiveglance]

what's UP crew

Have you been reading

Just dropping my page 2 read on fire's pred

If there was a super cool moment that someone wants me to look at I can probably produce higher quality content that way than reading every single page

Maybe ISO ppl for the Ctrl+F 'TGP' and see what you find. Or read from Day 2 onwards

[furtiveglance]

i'm feeling like throwing this game by this point

Doesn't sound good

[furtiveglance]

do u want to know how we can throw this game potentially or end up with the most hilarious outcome

voting norwee because he's kinda scumposting and i've mostly only been town reading his reaction to me

pina as well let's go on that furtive didn't you say you wanted pina

that's the meme way to try solving this game

I'm completely locked into the Gimli tunnel, because I can't see 2 scum without him. So I'm not really interested in other votes

[furtiveglance]

what if norwee/pina is town furtive will u apologize

I never scumread Norwee

If giuseppina is town but I still led on scum!TGP and scum!Gimli, then I'm the good reads cool guy hero

[furtiveglance]

I'm actively willing to provide fresh reads on demand right now. Cmon, someone here ought to be town and see the utility in that.

Go and read D2 eod as TGP was getting voted out?

[furtiveglance]

You seem to have your mind made up on Gimli so I don't see why you're holding out on me? But fine, I'm fucking off for awhile and reading eod2.

What? You begged for something 'juicy' to read.

[furtiveglance]

I'm actively willing to provide fresh reads on demand right now. Cmon, someone here ought to be town and see the utility in that.

I think the main decision today is whether to lim Fire.

It objectively isn't, since Gimli is the one at E-2. Why not mention Gimli? What's your read on him, Toto?

[furtiveglance]

I think gimly is town. Recent posts reaction to you/fire feels like town to me.

Disagree, obviously. Have you played with Gimli before?

[furtiveglance]

I have not. If you have a good meta based reason Im all ears.

The meta thing is more of a feeling than something I can pinpoint - Gimli is normally more relaxed and natural

All they said in response to me/Fire was trying to (re)establish the narrative pushed by Shirou that we were meant to be the votes today, and repeating the same really unconvincing arguments as to why.

[furtiveglance]

Y quote to say meh? Are you unimpressed?

[furtiveglance]

If you can't be bothered to follow any more, can you potato through a Gimli kill?

[furtiveglance]

I have not. If you have a good meta based reason Im all ears.

The meta thing is more of a feeling than something I can pinpoint - Gimli is normally more relaxed and natural

All they said in response to me/Fire was trying to (re)establish the narrative pushed by Shirou that we were meant to be the votes today, and repeating the same really unconvincing arguments as to why.

Maybe shirou is right though

Ah yes, Shirou's exceptionally brilliant argument that right=informed managed to convince you so much that you went from calling me 'Captain' yesterday to wanting me out today. This progression isn't believable

[furtiveglance]

Hammer encouragement post

I'll go and find that Thor gif

[furtiveglance]

@furtive: You want to murder me for days, it feels agenda driven on top of being not fun at all to play

It's a game. My agenda is to murder you because I think you're mafia

[furtiveglance]

Spoiler:

[furtiveglance]

furtive/fire is so scummy

The game is about to end

[furtiveglance]

who is gimli's partner furtive

I have a few ideas. But does it really matter?

[furtiveglance]

I'm sorry you feel that way

I made my mind up at this point

[furtiveglance]

Goodnight Gimli

[furtiveglance]

Shirou, unless you see sense, I'm relying on the 2 town in Klick/Lycan/Toto to vote with me.

[furtiveglance]

please lycan come to fire wagon we have cookies

I thought you had decided to be helpful

[furtiveglance]

Not touching fire or furtive today as I think their play on D2 was too hard on TGP to be a likely bus

Shirou is all sorts of hyper and tried to CW a townie the whole D2, don't know what to make of it now

CSF, klick, norwee, pina, and toto.. so many slots to parse out

I'm townreading furtive and fireside before the flip and I think they look great after the flip

whats your reason for thinking shirou's push on you is bad? why do you think you should be clearly town here?

Because you CHUCKLEF***S were about to vote someone else

And I FORCED the vote through

I believe you fwiw but I'm potatoing the gameday and won't do much to save you here if people really want this flip

It's not against the rules to throw or I'd be banned after pairs mafia

I'm town, furtive. I have no energy to fight against your elimination, no good grasp of d1,.etc. sucks to replace in yo. That's for both of us

I also don't like furtive widening the scum pool to add Giuseppina and then being angly around the replace out.

Wrt furtive and fire's expectation that I'd be hard defending furtive today, I think shirou's case makes a lot of sense and can see the way furtive comes as a replace in with TMI and a longshot plan. He was way too confident coming into it which made me strong townread the slot, but who tf replaces into 60+ pages of game and has strong precise reads like furtive had? Something is probably off

I just don't think this is real

[furtiveglance]

you need to show me one.

where you keep saying people are throwing by not doing what you want.

show me furtive. show me the light.

I shouldn't have said anything like that, though I don't think I specifically did say that.

I've said stuff like 'if X isn't mafia nothing makes sense anymore' etc

[furtiveglance]

I'd probably say Newbie 2090 and Micro 1061: If Trees Could Scream are the games that I've had the strongest (correct) scumreads

[furtiveglance]

I'm going to bed. A bit stressed but I think I'm right

[furtiveglance]

i can do Fire > Gimli at this point and if it doesn't end the game we've ELO hell where i question my life choices by letting furtive go for AtE (which is a tactic that would only work once)

hopefully i'm dead at that ELO hell

let's go?

@Furtive i can vote with you on gimli if we kill fire today yes?

I don't know. There was a game when I townread fire even though he was mafia and quite widely scumread. My problem is, if Fire is mafia with a non-Gimli partner, who is it? I think you're barking up the wrong tree with Norwee

[furtiveglance]

furtive i'm about to go to sleep

please show me one town game where you were acting like this, saying people are throwing, etc

one town game furtive. one.

I can confirm that furtive kept saying town was throwing when he wasn't getting his way in Cosmos Mafia if that helps

I don't think I said the word throwing, but I'm sorry for saying everyone was bad

[furtiveglance]

I can confirm that furtive kept saying town was throwing when he wasn't getting his way in Cosmos Mafia if that helps

was he right there

I shouldn't have said that. But town kept killing people with good reads

[furtiveglance]

if furtive is town it's gotta be in fire/gimli

perhaps even if furtive is scum (fire partner)

My issue is that if fire is scum with not Gimli, who is either voting Gimli with me or waiting to? I townread CSF and Norwee who are the only other voters. Toto recently came in and said Gimli is town so I don't think he pairs with fire. Similarly, Lycanfire expressed reluctance to vote for Gimli. That leaves Klick. So unless it's exactly Fire/Klick, I think Fire is town

[furtiveglance]

furtive, serious talk.

from anime man to real photography man.

if i vote gimli today and it flips town/doesn't end the game, do you promise to vote fire tomorrow in a way that everyone can treat you as confirmed scum with fire if you don't?

if you say yes i can go along with you today and you must vote fire tomorrow if this doesn't end the game.

it's a deal.

I simultaneously don't like deals and don't remotely think that [Fire, Gimli] are 2 town

[furtiveglance]

In fact if Gimli didn't end the game, Fire would be one of my top candidates anyway

[furtiveglance]

Why would I care about people calling me scum with someone else in a WF setup? Bit of a moot point but still.

I think Fire and Gimli will probably be the next 2 votes deal or no deal. Why are you trying to extract a promise?

[furtiveglance]

The very fact that you're obsessing over a 'deal' is what's making me apprehensive

[furtiveglance]

Ok, deal. I think Fire/Gimli were going in either order regardless, but fine

[furtiveglance]

Gimli has more votes

[furtiveglance]

Someone finish it

[furtiveglance]

Fire can you hammer or can't you

[furtiveglance]

Sorry if wrong Gimli

[furtiveglance]

That's a relief, I felt bad for Gimli at the end but now I don't lol

Shirou was towny with some good reads

Sorry for all that stuff about postgame

[furtiveglance]

I was VIing somewhat.

Lycan free win lol

[furtiveglance]

CSF was MVP, thanks for the compliments guys and welcome to my wiki page haha