Mini 2287: AB:LoAF (Postgame)

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Hi, I’m not feeling too well currently. As such, don’t expect a lot from me for now.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Hi I’m incredibly lost, what’s going on?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Actually that''s useful info that I'll share later.

Why were you saving it for later?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

Let's play mafia.

Would you mind actually answering my question, or giving a reason for not doing so?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Quick Introduce on what the fuck we can have:

True Groupscum List:

Spoiler:

1.

Dark Creatures

Info
2.

Mysterious Electricians

Info
3.

Arsonist Cartel

Info
4.

Apparitions

Info
5.

Negach Syndicate

Info
6.

Witches

Info
7.

Raging Beasts

Info
8.

Black Magicians

Info
9.

The Compleationists

Info
10.

Daylight Cult

Info
11.

Starkin

Info
12.

Conspirators

Info
13.

Doom Seekers

Info

Benign Groupscum List:

Spoiler:

1.

Pirates Info

2.

Amoeboids

Info
3.

Zombies

Info
4.

Mesmers

Info
5.

Guardians

Info
6.

Celestial Angels

Info
7.

Consortium

Info
8.

Card Sharks

Info
9.

Playground Bullies

Info
10.

Heralds

Info

Solo Third Party List:

Spoiler:

1.

Dragoon

Info
2.

Duplicator

Info
3.

Double

Agent

Info
4.

Cursebearer

Info
5.

Poltergeist

Info
6.

Final Curtain

Info
7.

Zalith, The Last Occultist

Info

Benign Third Party List:

Spoiler:

1.

Vampire

Info
2.

Demon

Info
3.

Fiend

Info
4.

Dictator

Info
5.

Sidekick

Info
6.

Hermit

Info
7.

Deathseeker

Info

I should really read game setups before I join them

This feels annoyed; am I wrong?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think the value of a massclaim would depend to a large extent on the tradeoff between {telling scum who to kill / roleblock / mess with} and {better night action coordination / information / locking scum into a lie}, it seems very very dependent on the exact setup we have. Seems like it ultimately comes down to player preference and my preference is to not do it, but this is a democracy. I guess that if we mess up worst case we could still attempt to Mountainous the setup.

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

Why did you think this, and also, why are you trying to act like my question is off when you said this?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I got backed into overconfidence and backing down would be scummy

this feels exceptionally self-conscious for this stage of the game.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

You sure are worried about looking scummy

yeah I guess but I should meme more



VOTE: Enchant

Devoid of content, but we are still apparently in RVS

Then lets make things interesting so we don't go back to RVS

VOTE: TemporalLich

scummy push

VOTE: TemporalLich
Yeah between questionable engagement of Herta and this, TL feels like he was trying to play extremely sloppily and is now showing a surprised Pikachu face.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

my vote is obviously not an RVS vote but a pressure vote as Herta's gambit is way too risky for scum

why are you pressuring someone you don't think is scum, then

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Yeah you're not exactly helping your case

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think your play is objectively scummy and trying to pretend otherwise or deflect the matter is a bad look

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think page 3 is a little early for mass claiming here. Unless you have something to gain from this.



VOTE: Marashu[/v}

I kind of do, but it doesn't need to be so early.

Now THIS is exciting

UNVOTE:

why would you unvote because of this?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Millers ave to claim right away. its the way it works

My question (maybe just out of curiosity) is why would anyone choose to be miller

like whats, the other option that they actually discarded that was worse. That's why I actually have some considerations about believing the miller claim

this is probably the smartest approach anyone's had to the miller claim
and I am acknowledging that there are reason to pick it that were stated

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

alright

I don't decide when RVS ends but having actual votes is better than RVS votes

that being said, it's too early for me to provide a lead rist because Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu has not posted yet

why would you need all slots to post once to provide a read list?

can't it be with everyone and them at null? It kinda makes no sense

this is also well said

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Associative detected

here's an idea: why don't you try giving a take that scratches deeper than a soup spoon?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

It's still early D1, lead rists are better if you have reasons for each position in the list

literally just ask
this looks like posturing

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Well there's second role: Meta Janitor. But it was probably stated.

so why is NM exempt of this

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

here is a lead rist for now

[Town]

Gimli - Town mindset, which can be discerned by towny posts appearing to be thoughtstreamed.
Herta - Way too gambity to be scum, despite the hasty claim.
Aisa - Good pushes.
KittyTacky - Seemingly townie.
Not_Mafia - Is Not_Mafia.
Enchant - Mostly RVS content, if not then setup spec.
narrow parking - An RVS vote and nothing else as of now.
Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu - No content as of now.
Yume - No content as of now except for a vote out of the blue.
Kyoko Kirigiri - Yeah idk.
Marashu - Seemingly not townie.
Kokichi Oma - Scummy mindset.

[Scum]

Now I'm confused. Did TL say he had questions to go with this or did I misinterpret something?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: kyoko

Game is kind of dead and I get that, but you're still talking about lich's list and I think the focus on that is scummy

this feels disingenuous
I think Kyoko makes good points, and aside from that consistent pressure in this scenario I think is actually town-indicating.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think trying a reads list this early is towny, shows eagerness to solve and whatnot.

this does not feel like a real thought
if you're not scum then you have the worldliness of a child

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Well there's second role: Meta Janitor. But it was probably stated.

so why is NM exempt of this

Because role wielder choose so.

that's possible?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Well there's second role: Meta Janitor. But it was probably stated.

so why is NM exempt of this

Because role wielder choose so.

that's possible?

Multitargeting Meta Janitor

When you pick this card, give me a list of any number of players. All of these players will have their public discard redacted. You may self target.

My inclination is whoever did it wanted to make NM look bad.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I'm guessing you haven't played with not mafia in the past couple of years.

Why does that matter.

Also, Kokichi seems pretty cool rn.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think the value of a massclaim would depend to a large extent on the tradeoff between {telling scum who to kill / roleblock / mess with} and {better night action coordination / information / locking scum into a lie}, it seems very very dependent on the exact setup we have. Seems like it ultimately comes down to player preference and my preference is to not do it, but this is a democracy. I guess that if we mess up worst case we could still attempt to Mountainous the setup.

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

Why did you think this, and also, why are you trying to act like my question is off when you said this?

I feel like the post you quoted is pretty self contained.

I made the statement about Herta full claiming because I noted they didn't full claim and felt confused by that, but I don't really see the fact the claim was not initially full as AI. I

feel like

your question was a bit off because it didn't demonstrate awareness of this conversation that Herta and I had. Why did you use the wording "act like"?

I said “act like” because I saw what seemed like you trying to shade me for what you already were doing
As for not showing awareness of the conversation, yea I wasn’t aware of this post at the time I asked about Herta’s claim situation. I catch up stream-of-consciousness style I would say.
You at least seem to have a good head about the matter

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I discarded vanilla

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I discarded vanilla

Do you think it's likely both you and kirigiri got vanilla roles in a game with soooooo many roles?

Don’t see why we can’t both be vanilla.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Vanilla discards ftr

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

So it looks like taking the meta-neighbor role did not guarantee TLich would have a partner in it?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

So it looks like taking the meta-neighbor role did not guarantee TLich would have a partner in it?

Incorrect.

TLich already had hood during discards and knew who is in it.

If TLich pick Meta Neighbour, hood are not closed.
If Meta Neighbour discarded, this hood closes, but continues to exist.

yeah that's what I said
why would he pick it if no one was in it though?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Are we claiming things to determine what Marashu is doing?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

So it looks like taking the meta-neighbor role did not guarantee TLich would have a partner in it?

Incorrect.

TLich already had hood during discards and knew who is in it.

If TLich pick Meta Neighbour, hood are not closed.
If Meta Neighbour discarded, this hood closes, but continues to exist.

yeah that's what I said
why would he pick it if no one was in it though?

You have access to a meta-neighborhood PT with another random player

if this card is one of the role cards you can pick.

Bolded relevant part of the role - during the role selection stage, the random player will already be in the neighbourhood. They can then discuss whether to keep this role or to close the neighbourhood.

Oh, I thought another player needed to have the role, didn't realize some other person with a random role would be added.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

do you know what exactly is revealed by rain/snow? Is it just who acts or does information about their action also get shared?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I am debating claiming some or all of my role, as while it may be considered unfun or anti-town I'm still using it.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Yeah I'm just gonna fullclaim this
I have to ability to pick a player and a word 3 times per game as a night action, if they post that word the next day they die

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

If mafia has a roleblocker, isn't everyone full claiming bad for us?

Maybe, but 2 of 4 of Marashu’s abilities can expose scum roleblocker.
I’m fine with making the game functionally nightless the first 2 nights.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I can't really tell whether rain or hail would be better. Hail would be good if we have scumteams that can outright kill like Raging Beasts or Negach Syndicate, but Rain is better for dispelling the Dark Creatures and Arsonist Cartel who can hide.

anyway, 435 is a bad defense

A bad defense for a bad attack.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

basically, I'm treating Doctor Drew as cleared so I'm unwilling to push Doctor Drew.

I’m going to guess this cleared status is derived from hood contents?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I’m not opposed to a KT wagon but that’s mainly because aside from TL I have basically no suspects. That may stem from not having read this whole thing though.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I don’t particularly get much free time in a day. I’ll try to read this but no guarantees.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

It's the awkward period when RVS is over but there are still no leads. That's why is dead. Also I don't think there's much else to talk about, the list is pretty big as far as content goes so far.

yeah I agree the lich lead rist trademark has been the thing that's happening in the game. that and the miller claim, which are the two things kyoko doesn't want/likes to talk about. I think it's a little odd, seems like picking on the things that are moving the game forward in any direction.

I think trying a reads list this early is towny, shows eagerness to solve and whatnot. and as I said I like my position in it. normally I get strong townread by the scum cause I'm all looney in the thread and I think pocketing me isn't a very hard thing to do, but this game I wasn't being townread by anyone yet so it seems like an organic approach to my slot. I'm also feeling uneasy by kokichi but I'll try to re-read parts of the game and see if I can write some words about it. I thought it was peculiar that kokichi decided to position in my favour when herta scumread me for asking about the setup, but he didn't push herta for it or anything, so it seemed like just posturing which may or may not be uncharacteristic for kokichi.

I don't think teasing for giving a read list while you're waiting for nothing, when also the read list is mainly consistent of nothing cause there are nothing much to make a list from is towny.

"I will wait till last guy posts then will share you my read list about everyone when almost everyone is null"

that's not towny IMO.

and what about kokichi is making you uneasy?

Why do you care what Gimli thinks of Kokichi?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Glad this came up again, so I was reminded of this.

Why is them confirming they have a reason to do so make them clear from maybe rolefishing?

This is a damn good question imo.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Should we share discards

I'm conflicted on this. One thing I don't know is that is it possible for people to share the same role as someone that was discarded? If not then it's probably a good thing to share discards at this point, since it'll lower the amount of fake claims scum can do.

I think this doesn’t work like you might think it works. Claiming discards wouldn’t reduce scum fakeclaims, at least not enough to matter imo.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

locktowning kokichi I think. suspicion over kyoko is good. suspicion over lich I still don't see it but it might just be things people scumread other people for that I don't, so.

I think sharing discards is an interesting idea. but does it make our actual roles more likely to reveal? like, the strength of them. making the game easier for scum at night, and whatnot. and does it help our wincon as townies to share such a thing? I think I'm against it.

My discard was vanilla town.

I know...

super important and most damning information right there but yes overall I'm not sure if its a good idea to claim discards either.

Do we know why they are almost all discarded anyway? I didn't have time to do the setup spec yet

So you discarded Vanilla Townie role?

I fail to see how that was unclear from what Kyoko had already said.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

You can't receive Vanilla Townie role.

You can only receive Vanilla.

Ah. Clever, and I think town-indicating. Not clearing though, scum could try to gotcha someone like this. Just don’t think that’s Enchant’s intent from context.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

answering that question would collapse my scum equity

What??? Wouldn’t that be good for you?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

You know, I see why Drew might believe TL is a Jester.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Yeah I'm just gonna fullclaim this
I have to ability to pick a player and a word 3 times per game as a night action, if they post that word the next day they die

Can't you pick something like "the" or "a" or "he" and use it as a vig?

I think it’s a 5 letter minimum.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: Yume

KT claimed a trivially confirmable role

and

the catch-up feels very NAI so I don't think KT is any scummier. Note that KT's claimed role is effectively a Force of Nature assuming a Vigilante would fail or be redirected, and one of Marashu's claimed abilities globally roleblocks (and refunds limited abilities). This combination is trivially confirmable and will result in a guaranteed nightkill.

Yume is now the more economical vote.

I’m amenable to voting Yume, my role doesn’t work of someone just won’t post.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

That took far too long to post because my phone refused to keep me logged in.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

if we flip yume instead then KT can still be a wolf and then kill someone we wouldn't and then go 'well i had a read' etc

Do ant third parties that win by getting voted out exist in abloaf?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Ha ha ha.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri
I think this is where I want to start looking this day phase.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Then shouldn't we be voting Drew?

Yes

Yup

So, vote me?

Or have you figured out by now why you are caught in a lie?

Besides what I already stated.

I will say, curious why Fuyu didn't take the bait(or saw through the reaction test, if that was what this was lol).

Are you shitting me? I think a better question is why did those two think it was a good idea to drop such low-quality bait into the thread?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

>Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu will remember this.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

They could be aligned? I don’t think it was *that* coordinated though.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri
I think this is where I want to start looking this day phase.

Now you mad e me wor rie d abo ut tal king

nice



if act ion s wen t thr ough I'm

alr read y cle ar

sti ll ple ase don t kil me a use less kill

What?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Are you shitting me? I think a better question is why did those two think it was a good idea to drop such low-quality bait into the thread?

My question is why they didn't go even lower-quality and say they had a guilty on Herta?

I was unsure of what you meant for a second but I get it now.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Can we get more votes on Kyoto for trying to make me look bad?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Did I miss something where Kyo is blaming you for this, I assume, post restriction?

I don’t believe it’s a post restriction, I think she’s trying to play around a presumed action that I did not take.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

she's clearly fragmenting her posts in a way to play around my role
I legitimately submitted no action last night. So for her to be acting like I targeted her is shady as fuck to me.
Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I meant to respond to Drew and Herta as well there, I have no idea why the quotes weren't included
Well, I do actually, I probably clicked the regular quote button rather than the multiquote button on Aisa's post.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I legitimately submitted no action last night.

Was there a reason for this?

I saw it was hailing?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

UNVOTE: kyoko kirigiri
I don’t want to let her go that easily but I also need to think over her reaction test. Would like if she addressed my question I posed to her in Day 1.

Be back later.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Spoiler:

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

she's clearly fragmenting her posts in a way to play around my role
I legitimately submitted no action last night. So for her to be acting like I targeted her is shady as fuck to me.
Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

I actually believe you have this role now so my small test worked

I also love how you're furious. It looks genuine

Now tell me what you think of how others reacted to your sudden push on me?

@Kyoko, sounds like you know Fuyuhiko. What do you think is town-indicative about Fuyu's posting?
Can you also tell me what kind of reactions you were envisioning with your test?

Meanwhile,
VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

I don’t particularly like how you’re handling this. What is suspicious to you about me trying to cut off what came across as an obvious shade campaign at the time?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I’ve been wary of you for some time Aisa, ftr.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I feel like Herta and Aisa have been posting in bad faith today.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

may be cau se I like bein g funk yyy



sti ll you re the sca ry vig boy got a be car efu ll near the ult ima te yaku za

I only really gave indication I suspected you today I think? So jumping to this with me felt improper, even outside the hail situation.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think there can quite easily be a lot of scum in {KT, NM, Kyoko, Fuyuhiko, Drew}, the thing is figuring out if that's the right read of the gamestate.

Why these 5?

Seconding this question.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Did I miss something where Kyo is blaming you for this, I assume, post restriction?

I don’t believe it’s a post restriction, I think she’s trying to play around a presumed action that I did not take.

And why does that make you think I'm scum? elaborate

Because it felt like you were shading me. By trying to make it look like I took an action I couldn’t have, you implicated I had some workaround for Marashu’s role. But since I legitimately submitted no action, and you wouldn’t have been informed if I had, there was no tangible reason for you to believe I had targeted you.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Is she talking about your action with that post though? I feel like she may be softing some other kind of role

she's clearly fragmenting her posts in a way to play around my role
I legitimately submitted no action last night. So for her to be acting like I targeted her is shady as fuck to me.
Also, clearly claiming my role early on was a fucking mistake.

I actually believe you have this role now so my small test worked

I also love how you're furious. It looks genuine

Now tell me what you think of how others reacted to your sudden push on me?

I think Aisa and Herta have the worst reactions but I’m skeptical of others as well.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

It was Fuyuhikos question, and i was expressing that i didnt understand it.

It wasn’t a question, it was a declaration.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I don't like having the fate of the game in my hands so I'd rather sheep people I think are town.

This feels weak
Why don’t you have faith in your reads?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think Aisa and Herta have the worst reactions but I’m skeptical of others as well.

Remind me of my reaction.

Your reaction was to try and gaslight me while also fishing for more roles.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Interesting! You think they fake claimed and they're actually just mafia with the kill?

There's nothing preventing mafia from being reverse killer and thus having two kills.

Then there would be two kills wouldn't there?

Why do people consistently make the most braindead posts?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

For some reason I thought hail would only stop town actions. I'm dumb alright.

That’s at least some form of logic.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I wanna vote kyoko

I also wanna sheep the only other person who was townreading Lich. was it herta? hi herta let's be in-thread masons.

my reasons for both of these things are stupid and I don't wanna elaborate rn.

I would prefer if you did. You were on my radar Day 1.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I am a fri end mr fake evil sup reme lea der
a fri end

oooooooooooooooooooooo

she is 3p

I said that shit on d1

Where?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

It's time to play my favorite game: Everyone give me your biggest scumread and the reason as to why. Best answer gets my vote

kyoko isn't solving, she is incapable of not solving when she is town

What is the basis for this assertion?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

enough role play though

you gotta stop forcing me to soft anymore

if anyone is not convinced that I'm not a threat, you can just tell me and we can resolve this over night

I’m willing to give you one good chance to confirm yourself.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: drew

Why this vote?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Drew seems to be the best argument for vote so far. No one else really gave a scumread though. So by default you win for now, Mara!

VOTE: Drew

What about Gimli’s case against Kyoko?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Hmm, what would she get by doing that though? Seems like a silly thing to pretend, there's no way she doesn't get found out - if she thought that the person you targeted would get notified, then she would be expecting to get CC'd. I don't think that's her intention.

I think that regardless of her alignment she's having a play around with the fact that she is aware of your role. I don't think there are many universes in which she's actually like "ha ha let me pretend Fuyuhiko targeted me", that doesn't really go successfully in any case.

Now that I’ve spelled out my logic, do you still think my reaction makes no sense?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think there can quite easily be a lot of scum in {KT, NM, Kyoko, Fuyuhiko, Drew}, the thing is figuring out if that's the right read of the gamestate.

Why these 5?

It's more that I at least townlean everyone else! Feel free to ask about a couple specific players if you want more details.

Noting this for later.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Be back soon.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

>Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu will remember this.

will remember what?

Drew choosing to pester me about my immediate processing of the fakeness of the guilties

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I feel like the new site layout adds more unnecessary white space to posts.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Actually that''s useful info that I'll share later.

why did you think it was specifically worth sharing later?

I want fun and games and memes, massclaiming isn't any of these things and I'm not reading mech yet.. maybe some other time

Who's had the best fun and games and memes so far?

this is a bleh post

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

This is fair. There's nothing scum gains here other than a heads up. It's a universal miller which means that my check returns the smallest faction that exists at the beginning of the game. Which I think will be useful to learn. I don't know what that faction is so I'm curious myself. So if there's a cop with a shot they don't have a good idea about, take it on me.

this isn't really an answer to my question.

Marashu doesn't seem scum

VOTE: Kokichi Oma

starting to see a scummy mindset again

pedit: your reaction test doesn't faze me

What's the scummy mindset you're seeing?

Re: marashu I think the massclaiming bit and having reasons for it seem to come from town, so I agree with you and I guess I'm townreading both you and marashu now

I have a question. I'm sorry if this is too much potatoes but I don't wanna read the setup, it makes my brain cry, but I still wanna know what sort of game we're probably playing here. multiple factions? Is there even groupscum? Is it one of those games with three different scum factions and then you can't read anyone cause everyone is kinda towny throughout?

This post seems scummy to me.

I'm forcing things so it might feel scummy yes

Why is it scummy though?

The part where you're asking what kind of set up we're in. It comes off as disingenuous. I can't place it. It just does.

I do see how gimli's question kinda does nothing

Problem is I don't know what you accomplish by faking it.

I don't know what was on my mind when I quoted this, hrrrm.

I don't see what you find interesting.

I don't understand that sentence.

I kinda see what's interesting but yeah that last sentence from that gimli post left me dazed and confused too.

tbh I've forgotten my role this game and I'm going to keep it that way

Now that's a scum mindset

I want fun and games and memes, massclaiming isn't any of these things and I'm not reading mech yet.. maybe some other time

Who's had the best fun and games and memes so far?

You're all the game's fun so far
[...]

*twinkle*
Ok sorry I repent I apologise for fishing for compliments

On a semi-related note, I can't think of a super obvious reason for why Herta shouldn't full claim, I don't think not knowing the exact flavour of miller will cause scum to slip or anything like that.

This is fair. There's nothing scum gains here other than a heads up. It's a universal miller which means that my check returns the smallest faction that exists at the beginning of the game. Which I think will be useful to learn. I don't know what that faction is so I'm curious myself. So if there's a cop with a shot they don't have a good idea about, take it on me.

In other news, this claim seems way too specific to ever come from scum, and a cop check on herta.could be a good idea somewhere down the line to understand what kind of game we're playing.

It could literally come from scum who has that role, haha. Actually that does raise an interesting question - if somebody from the largest groupscum group in the game were to get the Universal Miller card, how would the two interact? Let me see if Meg will answer this question.

*smallest groupscum group

interesting concept

VOTE: Aisa
I still have more posts to parse but I think I'm tangibly leaning in this direction over Herta rn.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I am there to needle you if you step out of line again.

how was my conduct earlier "out of line"?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Drew seems to be the best argument for vote so far. No one else really gave a scumread though. So by default you win for now, Mara!

VOTE: Drew

What about Gimli’s case against Kyoko?

They later dropped it saying they believed them, so they were disqualified from the game

hmmm okay

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I don't like having the fate of the game in my hands so I'd rather sheep people I think are town.

This feels weak
Why don’t you have faith in your reads?

Because I think I am a bad player and also I am finding it a bit hard to read people this time around.

alrighty then

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I wish i could figure out how to quote a sentence.

You just highlight the content you want to quote from the post and a button should pop up to quote that snippet. For best results, do it on desktop.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

UNVOTE: kyoko kirigiri
I don’t want to let her go that easily but I also need to think over her reaction test. Would like if she addressed my question I posed to her in Day 1.

Be back later.

what was the question? Im sorry no time for iso till later just skimming and comment on some stuff on phone

One sec

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

It's the awkward period when RVS is over but there are still no leads. That's why is dead. Also I don't think there's much else to talk about, the list is pretty big as far as content goes so far.

yeah I agree the lich lead rist trademark has been the thing that's happening in the game. that and the miller claim, which are the two things kyoko doesn't want/likes to talk about. I think it's a little odd, seems like picking on the things that are moving the game forward in any direction.

I think trying a reads list this early is towny, shows eagerness to solve and whatnot. and as I said I like my position in it. normally I get strong townread by the scum cause I'm all looney in the thread and I think pocketing me isn't a very hard thing to do, but this game I wasn't being townread by anyone yet so it seems like an organic approach to my slot. I'm also feeling uneasy by kokichi but I'll try to re-read parts of the game and see if I can write some words about it. I thought it was peculiar that kokichi decided to position in my favour when herta scumread me for asking about the setup, but he didn't push herta for it or anything, so it seemed like just posturing which may or may not be uncharacteristic for kokichi.

I don't think teasing for giving a read list while you're waiting for nothing, when also the read list is mainly consistent of nothing cause there are nothing much to make a list from is towny.

"I will wait till last guy posts then will share you my read list about everyone when almost everyone is null"

that's not towny IMO.

and what about kokichi is making you uneasy?

Why do you care what Gimli thinks of Kokichi?

Here’s the question

@kyoko

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

any ways eno ugh soft clai ming

I can full claim end of day. Thin king ab out it

Hang the fuck on
Why are you acting like this? I wouldn’t have been able to target you, and you wouldn’t even know if I had!

Did I miss something where Kyo is blaming you for this, I assume, post restriction?

I don’t believe it’s a post restriction, I think she’s trying to play around a presumed action that I did not take.

And why does that make you think I'm scum? elaborate

Because it felt like you were shading me. By trying to make it look like I took an action I couldn’t have, you implicated I had some workaround for Marashu’s role. But since I legitimately submitted no action, and you wouldn’t have been informed if I had, there was no tangible reason for you to believe I had targeted you.

Exactly, everyone knows you couldn't have targeted me with that. So how could that be a shading attempt?

As I said, you may have been aiming to suggest I had a way to bypass hail

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Drew seems to be the best argument for vote so far. No one else really gave a scumread though. So by default you win for now, Mara!

VOTE: Drew

What about Gimli’s case against Kyoko?

He just called me 3p cause I used the word friend in my soft. how is that a case?

:/
I mostly asked for academic reasons

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

My role is equivalent to a gunsmith, in that it detects a certain trait that is scum 95%, but is not a gunsmith itself, I will not be full claiming

For an ice type you’re claiming some spicy shit.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Snow would be useful in the case of someone saying "I'm going to target x tonight." If x was not targeted and y dies when nobody claimed they would target y, barring shenanigans we'd have a good place to start looking for scum.

let's bring this to the table today?

Not against it. I'd want to make sure we're coordinated if we do it though.

I think Hail is just better overall better. Gives us a head start before scum starts killing (assuming kitty is town). But, I'm not against snow

Kitty is essentially leashed
Also, maraschino has 1 more use of weather total, is that the correct interpretation?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Spoiler: marashu's mech spec

I return vanilla [smallest groupscum faction at the beginning of the game]. It says nothing about conspirators or guardians or any other faction other than town of course. Walk me through this like I'm 5, please.

According to the setup we have 4 factions, so I don't know why you're speculating on how many there are.

I also don't know what you mean by slow to get information out of me. I'm not on a timetable. And even if I were, what difference does/did it make?

I got 3 factions and not 4 from the following:

1. The moderator rolls 1d4. This corresponds to one of the 4 faction lists below.
2. The moderator rolls a random number from 1 to the number of entries in the corresponding list to determine what is present in the game.
3. The moderator rolls an additional number on the True Groupscum list.

One faction from any of the lists. One faction from True Groupscum. Town. Those are the three factions.

As I said, I might be misunderstanding how flavour works. My understanding was that 'Miller', 'Cop', 'Mason', etc would be changed to match whichever faction it is reflecting/investigating/excluding. For example, in the Dark Creatures entry, Miller is listed as 'Abyssal'. So my expectation is that your card would read Universal Must-Pick Abyssal. So either I'm wrong about how the role flavourings work (which, I'll be honest, is definitely a possibility), or we're in a setup where you would return as a Guardian/Conspirator (since those are the only two groupscum that would have Miller as Miller), or you're antitown who wanted to claim miller early but didn't know about miller flavour, and it's this last possibility that has me so fixated on sorting your claim.

wow I never read these things until now, okay. so we know we're in a game with conspirators because of this:

Cop:Cop
Miller:Miller(returns Mafia)
Mason:Immigrants

and this and guardians (that can't be in the game for some reason I already forgot) are the only groupscums who have miller as miller and not some flavour of miller in the name.

The Conspirators outside the PT are treated as Lone, having no idea who the other conspirators are and losing alone.

guess who's acting like a lone conspirator? kyoko. her d2 'reaction test' works much better as signaling.

@ whoever understands the mech in this goddamn game: if we are in a game with conspirators, then we definitely have this traitor role, right?

Ooh I didn't catch this. Makes sense tho.
VOTE: Kyoko

That’s bad spec imo
It misreads Herta’s claim

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I don't think it was a really obvious shade campaign. You've said that it was shady to you that Kyoko acted like she was targeted by you. I'm saying: I don't think she was trying to imply that you targeted her specifically, I think she was going for more of a "ha I am aware that this role is in the game" vibe.

what do you have to suggest it wasn't specific to me
like you thought Kyoko knew me earlier right? That doesn't mesh with this assertion imo.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Hmm
Do you think this is scum indicative, Fuyuhiko?

not really, it's kinda annoying tho
I want to maybe suggest a pool of shots for Kitty this round assuming we go with Hail again

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Actually I don't know that I like KItty not having any agency there.

exactly my thinking as to why a pool of targets might be preferred

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I want to flip drew but I don't want to repeat d1 and flip a villageeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer

Who else besides drew do you SR?

I rly don't think kyoko is town, I think she is either a traitor/Lone type or a 3p, or just scum. aisa's posts this gameday remind me of how she was coming back to Lich's 'lead rist' like it was so out of line for Lich to be wanting to make one, when I don't think her towngame really goes there and is more likely to not pick up on random oddities like that, but on more precise things. I also think she'd probably be scumhunting d2 full kirigiri, instead of coasting and trolling. Like, this is NOT kyoko's towngame (yet?), and you just played with her so you know that as well. why are you not going there?

I don't really like herta's d2 all that much, I'm growing wary of her townread on aisa, even though I do also townread aisa, and it's hard for me to get past that miller claim, with the specifities of it, without thinking she is telling the truth and is a town miller indeed.

I think you're doing a thing that I'm quite sure if it's your towngame or not. sometimes it looks like it, sometimes it doesn't? you're not developing a good sense of the game yet, but the same goes for every other player itg so I get it, but somehow I was expecting more. I think you're turning a blind eye to kirigiri and it's odd that you're doing that. do you think she is town?

then there's NM. I don't think NM is aligned with dr drew though. so if one flips groupscum I wouldn't want to flip the other.

wow
just, that last line, sigh

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Have you specced this game out Enchant?

wdym with this?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I’m posting right before going to bed because my day was very busy
@Aisa why do you SR me? I don’t think you’ve actually given a tangible reason for that read.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I discarded vanilla

Yeah I'm just gonna fullclaim this
I have to ability to pick a player and a word 3 times per game as a night action, if they post that word the next day they die

isn't that a little funky? your discard was vanilla but your actual role is a killing ability.

I wonder if on d2...

:tinfoil:

kuzu and kyoko are groupscum. check: horrible theatrics

Spoiler: scum theatre or something

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri
I think this is where I want to start looking this day phase.

Now you mad e me wor rie d abo ut tal king

nice



if act ion s wen t thr ough I'm

alr read y cle ar

sti ll ple ase don t kil me a use less kill

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri
I think this is where I want to start looking this day phase.

Curious as to why

I don t know. I wish frie nds woul dln t sus pect ea ch oth er in this game of des pair

damn is hard to talk like this with auto corr etc lmao

and on and on

Yeah I picked a role I thought was fun, fucking suck it!
Gimli is playing extremely bad-faith here and I’m absolutely willing to shift to voting him.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

BTW I wanted to tell you all this but couldn't do so pre claim

There is a chance that Herta is in actual scum group as universal miller and that way they would pass as a hurtless 3p

You need to consider that option in this setup

Would it have to be a groupscum faction?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Gimli continually pushing for Kyoto to die even after she fullclaimed is an abysmally bad look.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I feel like she’s been incredibly upfront about what she’s capable of and that means her claim is probably true. So she’s a bad push imo, and Gimli has been going after her potentially all game, with extremely wild cases that indicate he’s willing to resort to any means necessary to make his push go through. I don’t like any of that, and he’s basically in desperation mode at this point because Aisa is the leading vote rather than his pet suspicion Kyoko.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I don’t think it’s that simple.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Based on who Kyoko targets, she may be locked into winning with the town. My one question is whether she has to live to win.
Also, I very much suggest not hailing tonight.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

pedit: I want to ideally target both town and scum with my friendly neighbor in the next night phases which is gonna be hard.

I don’t think this is as good of a plan as you might.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I suggest you read your win condition again, Kyoko.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

In that case I’m less against booting Kyoko.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Gimli continually pushing for Kyoto to die even after she fullclaimed is an abysmally bad look.

if she is a bad 3p instead of what she is claiming, we might not know until too late. I think you're scum so it doesn't matter that you're shading me over it.

Well you’re dead fucking wrong. Most of your read on me has to do with Kyoko anyway so if you think she’s malicious 3p you should be pushing her!

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

alright

I'm not a dictator either.

Then I fail to see how you are not a threat.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Based on who Kyoko targets, she may be locked into winning with the town. My one question is whether she has to live to win.
Also, I very much suggest not hailing tonight.

No.

Dictator (if it's dictator) can change with who he can win.

If Dictator targets town going into ELo it may have to play to win with town for the rest of the game
But given Kyoko is disavowing being that role it’s moot.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

alright

I'm not a dictator either.

Then I fail to see how you are not a threat.

cause I'm not and I have a confirmable role that shows it?!!!

I don’t trust you to play to help town at this point so you have to die.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Gimli also needs to die at some point because he’s not playing to a town win condition.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

alright

I'm not a dictator either.

Then I fail to see how you are not a threat.

cause I'm not and I have a confirmable role that shows it?!!!

I don’t trust you to play to help town at this point so you have to die.

sure sure. I might not help town

BUT what gave the impression that I in any capacity hurt town that I have to die?

You have to eliminate the scum and I'm clearly not one. The setup confirms it litteraly.

I’m not voting outside of you and Gimli here.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri

VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

voting for a friendly neighbor amazing

As I see it Friendly Neighbor is explicitly a town role. So if you’re claim 3p, you’re not FN.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I don’t care if you vote me out because it at least reveals my alignment and once that happens Gimli has a shit-ton to answer for.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I didn’t see anything about “modified”. I might be willing to buy it but saying you stated it repeatedly when I don’t remember it ever coming up feels disingenuous.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I discarded vanilla

Yeah I'm just gonna fullclaim this
I have to ability to pick a player and a word 3 times per game as a night action, if they post that word the next day they die

isn't that a little funky? your discard was vanilla but your actual role is a killing ability.

I wonder if on d2...

:tinfoil:

kuzu and kyoko are groupscum. check: horrible theatrics

Spoiler: scum theatre or something

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri
I think this is where I want to start looking this day phase.

Now you mad e me wor rie d abo ut tal king

nice



if act ion s wen t thr ough I'm

alr read y cle ar

sti ll ple ase don t kil me a use less kill

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri
I think this is where I want to start looking this day phase.

Curious as to why

I don t know. I wish frie nds woul dln t sus pect ea ch oth er in this game of des pair

damn is hard to talk like this with auto corr etc lmao

and on and on

This is a blatantly erroneous post.

1. There is literally nothing scum indicative about picking an actual functional ability over vanilla. Trying to paint it that way is deliberately misleading.
   
2. Less to do with the post itself, but why the fuck do I lock myself into a claim so early as scum? I also claimed so it wouldn’t be an absolute blindside if someone died by my role, why the fuck do I do that as scum?
   
3. Despite Kyoko claiming 3p and Gimli apparently going along with that he has yet to rethink his read on me that was built on associatives with Kyoko. It’s extremely fucking obvious he was just fishing for an excuse to go after me.

If you vote me today and don’t kill Gimli at the next possible chance and you’re town, you are gamethrowing.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I didn’t see anything about “modified”. I might be willing to buy it but saying you stated it repeatedly when I don’t remember it ever coming up feels disingenuous.

How could you not see what I'm claiming? It was in every single post of mine

how could you trust it initially and then scum read it if you didn't understand its not traditional town friendly neighbor?

It makes no sense

I don’t see how my progression on you doesn’t make sense? I thought you were playing a way that would be helpful to town, but you ended up coming off as more self-interested to the point of being a complete wild-card, so my feelings on you turned for the worse.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

the groupscum theory was tinfoil. I think you're both independently scummy. you're more scummy.

This reads to me as “I was talking out of my as and blatantly looking for an excuse to push you”.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

and explain why you think I won't help town?

It was worse when I thought you were dictator, but if you’re townsiding why do you need to let scum know you can with with them?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

If you think I was solely whiteknighting Kyoko Day 1 you’re solely mistaken. And it’s a horrendously bad look for you to act like whiteknighting is a scumtell for me given in our last game it was discussed as a character trait of mine. The only thing whiteknighting is for me is NAI.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I didn’t see anything about “modified”. I might be willing to buy it but saying you stated it repeatedly when I don’t remember it ever coming up feels disingenuous.

How could you not see what I'm claiming? It was in every single post of mine

how could you trust it initially and then scum read it if you didn't understand its not traditional town friendly neighbor?

It makes no sense

I don’t see how my progression on you doesn’t make sense? I thought you were playing a way that would be helpful to town, but you ended up coming off as more self-interested to the point of being a complete wild-card, so my feelings on you turned for the worse.

I am asking what you thought my claim initially was?

it seems that you said you thought it was a traditional friendly neighbor at first while also believing my 3p claim. then you came up with line "FN is for town so you cant be FN"

That's filled with paradox.

I didn’t have a solid impression of your claim at first. When I started digging for possible alignments you could be, I grew more skeptical of your trustworthiness since I saw Dictator as the only logical thing you could be which made me distrust you’re secretive nature about the exact 3p alignment you were.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

you can WK kyoko all you want, but from liking a bunch of her posts on d1 you started d2 voting there. neither on d1 nor on d2 you seemed to have a sensible progression on her. right now, same deal, the progression doesn't work. with me as well it's pure OMGUSing now.

I'll never think you're town after this.

Really fucker? You thought I was town in Hainted Village! What was different there!?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

If you think you’re not a threat then you’re absolutely off-base. You are a threat merely by existing.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

you can WK kyoko all you want, but from liking a bunch of her posts on d1 you started d2 voting there. neither on d1 nor on d2 you seemed to have a sensible progression on her. right now, same deal, the progression doesn't work. with me as well it's pure OMGUSing now.

I'll never think you're town after this.

Really fucker? You thought I was town in Hainted Village! What was different there!?

I will not accept avoidance or claims of ignorance on this matter.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

And I will not claim my alignment unless if you force me to, which is a mistake for town to force me for that claim at this point of game as its bad for me and for town to claim that

The fact that you know I'm not a threat to town because of my FN role, is already enough to ensure you should give me space for a while since town is never in any kind of danger by me.

pedit: oh? How am I? elaborate please

You specifically stated you wanted to target scum. That means you can win with them, meaning you pose a potential threat to the town.
I never explicitly said Enchant was wrong about you being possibly treacherous in endgame, I only said I thought you could be locked into townsiding.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

oh okay I'm glad you're talking about haunted village. to @everyone check townie kuzu playing and eliminate him from this game cause the difference is so obvious: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90328&user_select%5B%5D=31886

Mind telling the class what the “obvious difference” is? You should be able to do so since you seem to think it exists. I will grant my gameplay there differs in some ways but has absolutely nothing to do with my alignment. And I a think my conviction there and here match rather fairly.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I didn’t have a solid impression of your claim at first. When I started digging for possible alignments you could be, I grew more skeptical of your trustworthiness since I saw Dictator as the only logical thing you could be which made me distrust you’re secretive nature about the exact 3p alignment you were.

Getting this streaight

So you thought I'm Dictator with traditional FN and suddenly after I said I'm not dictator, you went with the line "FN is only for town" and discarded my claim?

How did being dictator with traditional FN make sense in first place?

I was still piecing things together
I also didn’t think the FN objection was immediately relevant.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: Gimli
I’d also consider going back to Aisa given Gimli had this conniption after Aisa was the leading wagon with <48 hours left in the phase. But I want to kill off the blatant obvscum first.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Kyoko is clearly being disingenuous. Sorry Kyoko. You keep saying that you can confirm that you can win with both town and scum and, as such, are no threat to anyone. You're conflating being able to win with town

under certain circumstances

with

never

being a threat to the town. It's called a third party for a reason; if your wincon aligned with town perfectly you'd be a happy fluffy town unicorn or something.

Oh hey, Aisa said what I have been trying to say!

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Now explain your read on me.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Well you’re doing a poor job of killing scum by voting me.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Doctor should be on Herta tonight.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I really dislike both Fuyuhiko and Gimli here.

It would seem Kyoko could be vigged? We can't have her in elo if she is what she says she is and confirming herself doesn't change that.

don't just shade with no reason, if you're scumreading me say why you're doing so. 'dislike' doesn't mean anything. maybe you dislike the way I post or how I play the game. is that a scumread? idk cause 'dislike' isn't an alignment lean.

I think the implication is Herta finds us both scummy. Which is absolutely fine in my book.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I’m willing to let Kyoko do her thing atp.
Half-considering a self-vote; I think my role became junk the minute I claimed it and I probably do my alignment more favors dead than alive.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Is anyone else interested in Fuyuhiko? That's the slot I most want right now. Could people explain why they actually townread that slot?

My gut tells me town are more likely to say this before they’ve sufficiently explained their read solely because it looks absolutely awful to do this when that’s the case.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Using hail again seems to me not a good play.

In the words of TL 'scum mindset'

How so? I think there’s reasons to not use hail tonight. I would suggest Marashu holster rather than use another power so hail can be done again later though.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

you can WK kyoko all you want, but from liking a bunch of her posts on d1 you started d2 voting there. neither on d1 nor on d2 you seemed to have a sensible progression on her. right now, same deal, the progression doesn't work. with me as well it's pure OMGUSing now.

I'll never think you're town after this.

*comes d2

the progression is wonky. now is there any town or scumhunting post kuzu made that anyone thought 'okay this is a townie player'? asking to whoever wants to interact with me on this scumread. sell me on kuzu's town, anyone, if you can. if not, let's flip it?

These two ideas are diametrically opposed
If you truly believe I’m scum to the point of never changing your mind, the opinions of others should mean nothing to you.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

@Kokichi

vote Gimli with me.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Kokichi, Aisa and Herta all feel alright to me currently. Which is rather ironic given my feelings earlier but both Herta and Aisa have done things that change my mind.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

@herta: have you read my posts about kuzu's progression on Kyoko, from defending her all d1 to openvoting her on d2? and never expanding on that scumread because kyoko started to roleplay being targeted with his ability so he started to push her for it (then dropped it).

I really dislike, as in I don't like the tone of either of you.

Townies in general aren't all that consistent, so I don't think progression argument is all that alignment indicative. I didn't see anything wrong with what went down with kyoko.

I think this is a town fight really.

Who do you see as scum then?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Kyoko, I want to ask this (again) now that we have more info:
Why did you choose to act like you were affected by my role? I think I can see a new logic to you doing it and I’d like if you could confirm or deny it.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Kyoko, I want to ask this (again) now that we have more info:
Why did you choose to act like you were affected by my role? I think I can see a new logic to you doing it and I’d like if you could confirm or deny it.

I was genuinely just acting out to see people's reactions. I was thinking maybe I can test if you claimed rightfully or not, and see who catches it.

plus I was being a bit playful - was also softing my role HARD so wanted it a bit hidden in all that "mode"

Oh. I was kinda hoping you did it since I was your desired target from Night 1 but because of hail it didn’t work out.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

@herta: have you read my posts about kuzu's progression on Kyoko, from defending her all d1 to openvoting her on d2? and never expanding on that scumread because kyoko started to roleplay being targeted with his ability so he started to push her for it (then dropped it).

I really dislike, as in I don't like the tone of either of you.

Townies in general aren't all that consistent, so I don't think progression argument is all that alignment indicative. I didn't see anything wrong with what went down with kyoko.

I think this is a town fight really.

VOTE: herta
you're scumclaiming

Are you seriously going to target everyone who defends me?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

@kuzu: why did you say a protective should go to herta again?

Because he was the person I trusted most to work to vote you out if I’m voted out now. Obviously that was mistaken but I still think he’s town.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Are you seriously going to target everyone who defends me?

I hate to repeat myself so just that one time:

this

I really dislike both Fuyuhiko and Gimli here.

is heavily inconsistent with this

I think this is a town fight really.

Are you seriously going to target everyone who defends me?

and why do you call for protectives on herta?

Didn’t you just say dislike does not equal scumreading? How do those posts not fit given that?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I'll say this, though: everything I'm doing this game has been pro-town so far.

Promise me you’ll post this again after I flip?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I really dislike both Fuyuhiko and Gimli here.

It would seem Kyoko could be vigged? We can't have her in elo if she is what she says she is and confirming herself doesn't change that.

don't just shade with no reason, if you're scumreading me say why you're doing so. 'dislike' doesn't mean anything. maybe you dislike the way I post or how I play the game. is that a scumread? idk cause 'dislike' isn't an alignment lean.

For reference.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I wanted her to commit to a read because 'dislike' doesn't mean anything. I wanted her to say what she meant. she gave me the worst possible answer. can't you see that?

When you're calling each other fuckers, yes, I dislike that tone immensely. There's no place for it here.

I might cool it a little but the character I’m portraying is infamous for swearing like a sailor.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Well that’s my cover blown; at least it lasted for one full game.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Yeah it’s nothing new for me but I feel more free to do it on this account
And being outed won’t change that; I have a running mindset that I will act my way and if people don’t like that I don’t care. I gave up on being liked by everyone October 2021.
It would be nice if more people would frequent my GTKAS and blog thread on here though.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

oh okay I'm glad you're talking about haunted village. to @everyone check townie kuzu playing and eliminate him from this game cause the difference is so obvious: viewtopic.php?sid=&f=51&t=90328&user_select%5B%5D=31886

Mind telling the class what the “obvious difference” is? You should be able to do so since you seem to think it exists. I will grant my gameplay there differs in some ways but has absolutely nothing to do with my alignment. And I a think my conviction there and here match rather fairly.

I think you're way more assertive this game than last

Okay, that’s something. Question is why does Gimli think I’m more assertive as scum?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Didn’t you just say dislike does not equal scumreading? How do those posts not fit given that?

and your pretty face interfered with my questioning to say herta was scumreading the both of us! hah.

she went from not committing to a read while 'heavily' disliking it to saying it's TvT. if she

heavily

dislikes both of our tones, how is her conclusion that it's a TvT? this is senseless.

I think I said that was how I read it and not a definite answer?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Using hail again seems to me not a good play.

In the words of TL 'scum mindset'

How so? I think there’s reasons to not use hail tonight. I would suggest Marashu holster rather than use another power so hail can be done again later though.

What if scum just kill him tonight and we don't get another use of his role? It's silly not to just use hail again.

You’re probably right but I don’t see it as scummy for Herta to say what he said.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Well that’s my cover blown; at least it lasted for one full game.

I had a feeling it was you, but wasn't sure. Glad to be playing with you again.

Figured you might have pieced it together a bit. It was your comment that I resembled Fuyuhiko that led me to choose this identity for this alt.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

herta be the pirate miller*

Yeah I think Herta is either town/true groupscum miller that returns pirate or pirate miller
Essentially: I think Pirates are the smallest groupscum faction this game.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Yeah it’s nothing new for me but I feel more free to do it on this account
And being outed won’t change that; I have a running mindset that I will act my way and if people don’t like that I don’t care. I gave up on being liked by everyone October 2021.
It would be nice if more people would frequent my GTKAS and blog thread on here though.

I can't access GTKAS for some reason.

You need to request access, via the usergroups tab of the User Control Panel.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

NM/dr drew are my guesses for kyoko team mates fwiw.

Interesting.
I wonder if them claiming so Kitty doesn’t shoot them or Kitty shooting them (which would confirm Kyoko is truth telling) is better.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think flipping NM is the best course of action if he doesn't cough up a claim.

I’d rather give him another night to get a result. But verifying his action via flipping him isn’t an awful plan.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

VOTE: Kyoko Kirigiri

VOTE: Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu

voting for a friendly neighbor amazing

As I see it Friendly Neighbor is explicitly a town role. So if you’re claim 3p, you’re not FN.

This is a game where you can pick any of your draws regardless of your alignment.

Honestly I was being a pedant and a jackass with that.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Marashu
Not_Mafia
Gimli
Enchant
Doctor Drew

These are the names that I am fine if they get voted out
I almost left myself in but decided I don’t think being voted out is wise given the presumable deficit of town members if there are 2 groupscum factions. I still won’t throw a fit if I do get voted out though, I mostly do that if I feel like I’m getting targeted for personal reasons or no reason at all.
You’ll also note Marashu is in there; I honestly don’t see why he isn’t in the discussion as a possible suspect.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Marashu
Not_Mafia
Gimli
Enchant
Doctor Drew

These are the names that I am fine if they get voted out
I almost left myself in but decided I don’t think being voted out is wise given the presumable deficit of town members if there are 2 groupscum factions. I still won’t throw a fit if I do get voted out though, I mostly do that if I feel like I’m getting targeted for personal reasons or no reason at all.
You’ll also note Marashu is in there; I honestly don’t see why he isn’t in the discussion as a possible suspect.

This seems a bit of a hodge podge, covering people who have had real heat and the threat of elim(myself and NM), those who seem to be mainly town read(Mara, Gimli), and for good measure someone somewhat null(enchant).

This comes off very lazy, especially with no real reasoning for Gimli and Mara.....you mention you don't get their town read, well......tell us why?

And feels like you are offering yourself up for elim? Am I interpreting that incorrectly? Seems a bit 'woe is me'.

They kinda are a hodgepodge, as I simply took out the names I wasn’t interested in voting out.
Also, probably take out NM, but I do think it might be useful to flip one of NM/Kyoko to confirm their alignment.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I want to flip herta and then eliminate kuzu.

if herta is town, then I'm way offbase and I think killing drew and, if drew is scum, eliminating me on d3 for scumsiding works. we'd just change the order of events. but as it is I feel like I should be whiteknighting drew and aisa. those are the wrong flips. herta is the best flip.

Gimli/Drew/Aisa?
Is my guess for who is scum here. I wasn’t entirely on-track last time I posted a thing like this but I wasn’t all-wrong either.
VOTE: Doctor Drew

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I feel like Gimli’s entire strategy here is take take the focus off of legitimate suspects like Drew and Aisa and put it on town players.
We are not flipping Herta today. Either vote me out or vote in my PoE.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

By the way I never said I thought marashu was suspicious. Just that he felt under-discussed. It seems like we’ve all just kinda written him off collectively.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

that's fine. we're on opposite spectrums of the game.

we have to make sure we win even if we're TvT. if it's drew and aisa, then it is also herta.

after my green flip, you always eliminate herta next

.

Hmmm
This does feel genuine.
Why do you see Drew + Aisa as either SvS or TvT and lock into a single worldview? That’s bad gameplay imo.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I feel like Gimli’s entire strategy here is take take the focus off of legitimate suspects like Drew and Aisa and put it on town players.
We are not flipping Herta today. Either vote me out or vote in my PoE.

why is herta town

I feel like he’s been working with a town mindset. Even though sometimes I can’t relate to his thought process, I can do it enough that I don’t feel good about killing him off here.
You didn’t ask about this but since I often discuss them together, I don’t think Aisa is nearly as comprehensible as Herta. She feels like she’s playing through a filter, which comes off as scummy. The one thing I felt good about from her was asking for reads on me without explaining hers, which was a meta point anyway that was based on a game from my main. Frogsterking did something similar in 2019 game and flipped town. I did also mean what I said about the bad look of asking before giving your own logic looking bad and thus being towny-looking, but that was post-facto, and also not an argument I think is actually worthwhile looking back as a reckless poster would probably do it as either alignment.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I think a distinct difference in my towngame and scumgame is what distractions I’m not okay with. As town, I dislike being a distract to solving myself. But as scum, I’m more willing to be a distraction, but would rather not have my scum mates be a distraction.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

you're pushing down that meta read but I see what you're saying

I'm fine with working with a (drew, aisa, herta, KT) pool rn. what do you think of KT, kuzu?

What meta read?
Wrt Kitty, I don’t think he’s suspicious rn but I’m willing to hear you out on the matter.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

You again lied. That's not third party.

Its a third party based on that win condition

Am I the only one seeing it that pirates are doomed to town side?

I think in the setup you’re defined as groupscum which is Kokichi’s point but you’re more of a third party, akin to Mimes (faction that wins if all members get voted out). Mastermind would be a third party that functions more like a groupscum, as a complement to the discussion.
As for being doomed to townside, depending the circumstances of the game I’d call scumsiding more probable simply by there being less scum than town and thus if the scum gets obliterated early the pirates have to impede the town in order to win. I’ll get into this more when discussing my practical plan for this game.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

UNVOTE:

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I still think Drew is the best vote but not because of NM’s claim. This will also be elaborated on in my practical plan.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I still think Drew is the best vote but not because of NM’s claim. This will also be elaborated on in my practical plan.

I can get behind drew.

what we should never do is shoot NM because drew flipped green.

True.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Then why in the world would you not be okay with voting Drew?

I'll ask the most asked question of this game: have you played with not_mafia before?

Yes, but Kirigiri confirmed them as other Pirate which at least gives some credit to the claim

Do not give credit to stuff on my behalf when I explicitly said I won't be involved in it. I confirmed him as a pirate. I wont be talking about his role.

Okay, so N_M guilty is probably a lie then

You had reached this conclusion earlier, why did being a pirate change anything?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

You again lied. That's not third party.

Its a third party based on that win condition

Am I the only one seeing it that pirates are doomed to town side?

I think in the setup you’re defined as groupscum which is Kokichi’s point but you’re more of a third party, akin to Mimes (faction that wins if all members get voted out). Mastermind would be a third party that functions more like a groupscum, as a complement to the discussion.
As for being doomed to townside, depending the circumstances of the game I’d call scumsiding more probable simply by there being less scum than town and thus if the scum gets obliterated early the pirates have to impede the town in order to win. I’ll get into this more when discussing my practical plan for this game.

If pirates don't leave game earlier and end up in an end game situation, that means they haven't pirated one of living factions already. which means they logistically cant side with scum, cause a scum win means they loose. you know? cause scum wins the game with equal numbers and stuff while town has to get rid of all other factions.

There is no scenario in which pirates are keen to scum side in an elo if they are still in game. Only way we can help scum is if we manage to pirate all factions and leave game, and if town is slow enough with killing main scum and ends up in a pickle with us leaving the game.

so clock is ticking and town must find actual scum.

You are right that that scenario is bad for town but from an objective point of view not being able to kill scum in order to accommodate another faction can be detrimental to town. I guess the main remedy is being ultra-clear who your targets are. The core issue I see is if town sinks into apathy as a result of waiting for you to get your win, but by disclosing targets there is limited suspects which turns the game into a mechanical simplicity, reducing the negative impact of apathy.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Then why in the world would you not be okay with voting Drew?

I'll ask the most asked question of this game: have you played with not_mafia before?

Yes, but Kirigiri confirmed them as other Pirate which at least gives some credit to the claim

Do not give credit to stuff on my behalf when I explicitly said I won't be involved in it. I confirmed him as a pirate. I wont be talking about his role.

Okay, so N_M guilty is probably a lie then

You had reached this conclusion earlier, why did being a pirate change anything?

I thought Kirigiri was confirming them as cop pirate, but it seems she's confirming them as ONLY pirate. meaning that she's basically saying he's not cop but is a pirate.

Even if that was the case, cop pirate would still need a way to subvert hail.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

I took that as not wanting to vote Drew at all but you just don't want it because of N_M.

I would be down for a Drew/Herta elim/shot. In either order. Anyone else?

You almost landed on what my practical plan is.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

UNVOTE:

This game is annoying me ngl. Maybe cause we have less than a day left and we have no plan.

Yeah these day phases are dreadfully short. It’s about as long as a day phase on my homesite, which is plagued with issues mobilizing elimination votes. “Thou Shalt Not Abstain” has become a rallying cry of certain players.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

put kokichi back in the pool

pedit @gamma: your self meta. you're saying you don't do as scum what you just did here, which was 'flip me or flip my POE'. I see what you're saying, but it's self meta anyway. I'm fine with you being town for now.

I think Kitty is doing exactly what Drew is pointing at. he is just coasting, 'game too hard'ing and not doing anything. he only started pushing people now and I didn't like it either. the game WAS too hard, now we have 2 people from the same alignment outed, and I still don't see him solving any part of it. if he is town he needs to town it up.

Yeah I get not trusting self-meta but that was honestly written for myself somewhat. If it’s relevant, I may provide examples of what I’m saying.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

You guys really think there are 3 people in group scum?

I was thinking its 2 2 7 rn

If pirates left after n2 I think it would be pretty townsided to be only 2 scum.

Not really? It’s essentially a micro if scum haven’t lost any members yet. Symmetrical multiball setups tend to make the faction distribution at 13p 9:2:2

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

put kokichi back in the pool

pedit @gamma: your self meta. you're saying you don't do as scum what you just did here, which was 'flip me or flip my POE'. I see what you're saying, but it's self meta anyway. I'm fine with you being town for now.

I think Kitty is doing exactly what Drew is pointing at. he is just coasting, 'game too hard'ing and not doing anything. he only started pushing people now and I didn't like it either. the game WAS too hard, now we have 2 people from the same alignment outed, and I still don't see him solving any part of it. if he is town he needs to town it up.

I see what you’re saying about Kitty but why is his solving getting more intense after the pirates have been outed? I’d expect scum in this scenario to deflate due to not having another target to legitimately hunt. Honestly, I think I see this behavior from one player here.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

NM's claim has zero credit. n1 was hail. he'd need a BP ability on top of a cop check. and he is a neutroll. he'll always troll this game.

you and KT are hiding behind a fakepeek by a guy that trolls every single game. if you're town, that's cowardice. if you're scum it's smart but I can see what's going on.

How much do you feel Kokichi and Kitty have been doing things together this game?

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Um. If Pirate trying to force mislims then they are enemies? So why don't blast them.

Where are you drawing this “pirates are trying to force miselims” from? NM’s behavior? That’s solely on him and has nothing to do with him being a pirate.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

NM's claim has zero credit. n1 was hail. he'd need a BP ability on top of a cop check. and he is a neutroll. he'll always troll this game.

you and KT are hiding behind a fakepeek by a guy that trolls every single game. if you're town, that's cowardice. if you're scum it's smart but I can see what's going on.

How much do you feel Kokichi and Kitty have been doing things together this game?

If you are seriously considering me as scum at this point when for the past 2 days I've been trying to get everyone to come to a decision together. Even posting the time so we don't accidently no vote today. If I were scum I would just let everyone run around in circles like what was happening before.

I’m not certain on the matter but it’s possible. Scum do plenty of things in the interest of appearing as helpful town. You feel like you’re floundering after the pirate reveal.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

put kokichi back in the pool

pedit @gamma: your self meta. you're saying you don't do as scum what you just did here, which was 'flip me or flip my POE'. I see what you're saying, but it's self meta anyway. I'm fine with you being town for now.

I think Kitty is doing exactly what Drew is pointing at. he is just coasting, 'game too hard'ing and not doing anything. he only started pushing people now and I didn't like it either. the game WAS too hard, now we have 2 people from the same alignment outed, and I still don't see him solving any part of it. if he is town he needs to town it up.

I see what you’re saying about Kitty but why is his solving getting more intense after the pirates have been outed? I’d expect scum in this scenario to deflate due to not having another target to legitimately hunt.

Honestly, I think I see this behavior from one player here.

is it drew?

IDK I'm not seeing KT doing much of anything. I don't see his solving as more intense, although yes I agree more intensely solving now is >town, which is what I'm saying about KT as well... I expect a lot more solving than this from him, alongside the other things I mentioned (blaming NM on a drew flip, etc).

It’s Kokichi, as I kinda got into in my previous post.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Hey Enchant, who was our partner in store bought potions? I want to know if they’re here as well.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

type of group scum matters too, there were some variant win cons I presume?

Most true groupscum have basically the same wincon of eliminate all threats against them. Some, like Apparitions, are to eliminate all other factions. It's impossible for Witches and Pirates to win together fwiw, because all witches are vanilla and have what would be their role converted into spells.

This flipped a switch in my brain. One second.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

It’s Kokichi, as I kinda got into in my previous post.

Are you trying to say I'm scum or town. I can't tell

I think you’re scum, what’s in question is how Kitty is connected to you. Reason I asked Gimli earlier about how much you’ve been in sync was that if you’ve been in sync for most of the game I would posit you two are SvT.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Okay why the fuck is there a Witch role and a Witch alignment? I thought the role I picked came from an alignment card for a second.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Okay, Kuzu can be vigged, elim'd too. I'm not going to allow their bad reads to lose us this game.

I don’t see you as a priority flip currently. But like, it’s extremely telling that your immediate response is to say my reads are bad.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Anyway if NM fakeclaimed guilty, then he is HOSTILE against Town.

It means Pirates HOSTILE to town. Therefore they WILL side against us.

Yeah no. You saw how he played in store bought potions. He’s just that kind of person.

[Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu]

Either that or you're trying to protect Herta/Drew and derail the convo to me/Kitty when we have less than 12 hours remaining.

Again, I want to catch up on posts of missed first but I have a plan that starts with voting out Drew.
I do NOT think indiscriminately flipping the two of Drew/Herta is wise though, and that’s the idea you’re putting out.