Machina Mafia (Game over!)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Besides, it's just to ease his mind. This game is over when you get lynched, Marquis. You're scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD

If you're scum you're winning by lynching Marquis because tomorrow Titus will vote me and nothing will stop you from hammering (in fact, you will even have to do it because otherwise you'll be playing against your wincon).
Also, voting yourself will be playing against your wincon regardless of your alignment so you can't promise that.

That's... a fair point.

I fucking hate being at an impasse with you though, because we're both town and we have VASTLY different opinions on this.

Can you at least see why lynching Titus will put the game into a cancerous position, given DS' promise to create a draw?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, at the end of the day, no assurance I give you will ever completely remove the paranoia from you, and that's right. That's a good thing to have as town.

It's just it's getting in the way of us lynching scum and winning this game and that's fucking awful. :/

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Are you REALLY willing to bank our game on it?

Like, that's your choice.

You can trust me

or Trust that scum won't put us in an awful position.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm asking you to just put aside your misgivings this one time.

Because if Marquis is scum and we lynch Titus we lose.

But if Titus is scum and we lynch Marquis, we win.

That's what I'm asking you to understand.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Which is why it comes back to, how much can you trust me

please, go back through my ISO. Read my posts, see my emotions, see that I am town.

And put your faith in me, instead of in this 4p mylo awfulness.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

DS has promised you will we draw.

Like....

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I can't believe you're risking our fucking game on the hope and prayer Marquis won't force the draw scenario.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

let's be fucking real if i was scum i could easily win a nether-ds-me LYLO so get that out of here

You think so? I doubt it.

I doubt it with every bone of my body.

Because 1) There's always the risk that DS targets Nether and busts your shit for killing me

and 2) Nether and DS are currently CERTAIN of eachother being town. So I think you're lying. I think there's NO CHANCE IN HELL you win that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean, I understand you're forced to say that, but it;s patently not true, mr. "I didn't know there was only 4 scum oops town read me! lol"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That's what I'm waiting for.

Also, LLD, I'm going to lynch Titus today for 3 reasons.

1. She is just as scummy as Marquis, fmpov
2. Her role has little usefulness to us, now, as the neighborhood is established.
3. She is able to give me information semi-privately, so she can give me information that would be good to know in case of mislynch.

At this point, my decision is sheerly pragmatic.

How about reason 4: The fact that you are going to force town into that shitty draw situation.

Is that a good enough reason not to lynhc Titus?

Fucks sakes it's iike everyone's gone mad.

I swear to god, like, if Titus flips scum I'll apologize for this, but you're all fucking morons. Every last one of you. Except Marquis, he's scum, so it's expect of him I guess.

:/

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am so tired of being ignored.

Like

"OH LLD YOU'RE A SILLY GIRL WHO CAN'T HAVE REAL OPINIONS OR EVER BE RIGHT. SIT OVER THERE WHILE THE ACTUAL PLAYERS DO STUPID FUCKING SHIT"

Do you know how frustrating it is?

Do you know how fucking infuriating it is to be sitting here, looking at you and Nether and being like "if you lynch Titus, Marquis wins" and being told "lol you're silly"

Like fuck you both.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That''s it I'm fucking done with this game dude.

This game has brought me to the verge of tears so I'm done.

I'm done posting.

Do what you fucking like. I hope you lose this game for town now. You don't deserve to win it, at all.

Let's just fucking hand Marquis the win now. Do you think if we asked the mod would let us concede now? I'd like to try and concede now. It's not worth the fucking extended god damned torture.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Nether, can I just ask why you're so paranoid about me?

Like, I want to help you work past this paranoia so you can make the right call and I'm willing to answer any questions you have for me, but you never seem to have any for me, mostly just for Titus?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

4. My plans in the hood ... well, probably scum!me will benefit more from lynching Titus today compared to Marquis. That does not mean I'm scum though.

She also fought so hard for the Marquis lynch (that benefits scum!her) against Titus lynch... It made me really paranoid about her.

Nether, look at what you're writing. You're doing the same thing I'm doing, which is voting someone we have strong reason to believe is scum, even with the acknowledgement that in a scenario where we are scum, this play would benefit us.

And you're asking me, whether you think it comes from a town perspective.

I mean.... this is what I'm trying to make you see. Yes, I get your paranoia, but by definition paranoia like that is dangerous for THIS EXACT REASON.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And another addition:
In one of my previous games I was in a LyLo and I made the wrong choice. I was judging by scummy actions and posts and the player I decided to lynch was really scummy. Yet I was wrong and the real scum coasted all the way since D1.
I hope you can understand my paranoia.
I don't want to make a mistake again.

Ok, but when have I ever coasted by?

When have I ever made it my goal to avoid attention?

And I mean, ask yourself this question: Marquis and DS have been wanting me dead since day 3. Why would I leave them alive to this situation? I mean, you can say I didn't have any opportunities, but what about the night where Spiffeh died over DS?

If I were scum, why would I kill Spiffeh (who thought I was town AFAIK?) over DS (who was so certain I was scum he was calling for FB to shoot me?)?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I can't give you an unbiased opinion on Marquis, Nether.

I could try, I could try and review all his ISO, look at his posts.

But in the end, I am confident in him being scum, and it will be tainted by that.

So I'm sorry, if you wanted a full case review of Marquis' actions without bias I cna't do that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD

Spiffeh was publicly assigned by Titus to receiving me so while it's way less likely that you would kill him than Titus or Marquis (who thought I'm going to cop them) you still could do that just in case I'll change my mind and cop you (I initially submitted you as my target btw, I'm even thinking I shouldn't have changed it to SDB now as he was scummy enough without the guilty result).

Publicly?

Where? Find me it?

Remember, I don't have access to the QT.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD

Spiffeh was publicly assigned by Titus to receiving me so while it's way less likely that you would kill him than Titus or Marquis (who thought I'm going to cop them) you still could do that just in case I'll change my mind and cop you (I initially submitted you as my target btw, I'm even thinking I shouldn't have changed it to SDB now as he was scummy enough without the guilty result).

and you absolutely should have submitted a cop result on me or titus. We discussed this already. Getting a guilty that day was the worst case scenario. A single innocent result on me wins us the game that day and avoids all this paranoia shit dude.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, you want to know why I'm town Nether?

I've warned you fuckers about the worst case scenario we had to avoid EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

AND YOU NEVER FUCKING LISTENED.

AND HERE WE ARE.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

SO LIKE, TELL ME NETHER: WHY WOULD I BOTHER TO TRY AND GET TOWN TO DO INTELLIGENT THINGS THAT PROVABLY WOULD HAVE WON US THE GAME

WHY?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My blood pressure is going up again....

I'm going to go fucking make some food before I play D&D. I'll check in later Nether.

If I can say one last thing, don't fucking let your paranoia and fear from losing a prior game stop you from making an informed, intelligent decision.

Stop this paranoia shit, lynch Marquis, and we'll fucking rejoice in a glorious town victory.

Danke.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Wow that's some serious fucking revisionist history.

I was lynching Vamp until we had the idea about giving the Cop role to someone suspicious (ANOTHER GOOD IDEA I SUGGESTED, WOW) and I suggested we force it onto Vampirate. In the end, we chose to put it on Nether, which was fine and we lynched Vampirate.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is a scum jump, because he's worried that people might be town reading me harder now, so he wants me gone now.

Fucking.
Hysterical.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But this is good. People will see that your fucking crusade on Titus is nothing more than effort trying to get a mislynch. You got impatient and worried, and you made a mistake.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Bull.
Fucking.
Shit.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I like how you're trying to spin town intent into some kind of fucking scum plan, the INSTANT that Nether suggested he might consider lynching you.

THE FUCKING INSTANT.

You wanna talk abotu motivation? How's that for fucking scum motivation?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, I tried to stop you from rushing down the day PRECISELY BECAUSE I wanted the chance to get new reads, and reset my mind a little from preconceptions.

It seems you're encouraging people to stick to the status quo, which suits you because the status quo would have made you win.

That's when I realized you were scum and it all fit. That's why I'm pushing for so much discussion.

That's fucking town 101 motivation.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Day 7 will end in

(expired on 2016-02-07 01:01:18)

ok good there's time.

Nether and DS, can you reread the sections around where LLD flipped out and around on me and tell me if you see what I'm seeing? Because now that I'm looking back into the whole thing again, it doesn't look like a real eureka moment like what she probably wanted to sell it as, just an scum push made out of necessity, caused by her being the odd one out after a Titus lynch.

Like she HAS to do this now or else tomorrow, regardless of who was left alive, I'd definitely vote for her and the risk of DS and Nether voting her was too high to just go into a Titus lynch without a fight. Then with my lynch

despite me being generally accepted town

, she'd be able to keep Titus in LYLO, because Titus would definitely be easier to mislynch then, especially after I'd have gone and flipped town while having Titus as my #1 preferred lynch and scumread.

ENCOURAGING.

THE

STATUS.

QUO.

LIKE WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't get how you can't see this Nether.

Like, DS, I get it. He's been stuck in his tunnel since the beginning of time.

But you have to be smarter than this, come on.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, you talk about how you lost your last game and you're worried you'll lose this one.

And yet, you're sitting here, just letting Marquis fucking take you for a ride.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lol if i'm your "100% scum" pick for sure why are you so concerned with having to prove me wrong rather than just scum. like now it just looks like you're mad at me scumreading you over titus, when if you actually believed your "reads" it's more likely you'd just dismiss me than attempting to explain yourself. it's like you're still trying to make yourself look good for later, anticipating my townflip.

but is the game going to end today after all? oh no! you're in danger

No one is gonna fucking lynch you tomorrow, asshole.

That's why I'm pushing so hard today.

I don't trust these assclowns to lynch you when I flip town, or when Titus flips town.

Otherwise, I'd fucking let it all ride and watch you fucking burn for being such a cocky arrogant dickweed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't get how you can't see this Nether.

Like, DS, I get it. He's been stuck in his tunnel since the beginning of time.

But you have to be smarter than this, come on.

what DS tunnel lol??? now you're trying to discredit someone you're supposedly calling 100% town

???????????//???/df,A<SMbzsfhoa
fffsjpoa
dfijk[afwh]cxvhio



HE HAS BEEN CALLING ME SCUM SINCE DAY 3.

HE IS TUNNELLING ON ME.

HOW IS THIS FUCKING HARD, OH MY GOD YOU'RE SUCH A CHEEKY SCUMFUCK

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, you talk about how you lost your last game and you're worried you'll lose this one.

And yet, you're sitting here, just letting Marquis fucking take you for a ride.

if anyone's pulling out the AtE.......... or rather an appeal to others' emotions....................... lol

YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT I'M GOING TO APPEAL TO HIS EMOTIONS.

MAFIA ISN'T A FUCKING GAME OF LOGIC, IT HAS EMOTIONAL BASIS AND MOTIVATIONAL BACKGROUND.

THE FACT THAT YOU ARE TRYING TO INSINUATE OTHERWISE IS FUCKING HILARIOUS

[Lady Lambdadelta]

MARQUIS IS LITERALLY TRYING TO DISCREDIT AND MISREPRESENT MY POINTS, TO GET AN EASY LYNCH.

NETHER I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD YOU BETTER FUCKING SEE THIS SHIT OR I'M GOING TO FUCKING FREAK.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

MARQUIS IS LITERALLY TRYING TO DISCREDIT AND MISREPRESENT MY POINTS, TO GET AN EASY LYNCH.

NETHER I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD YOU BETTER FUCKING SEE THIS SHIT OR I'M GOING TO FUCKING FREAK.

Step away please. *hug* My vote isn't moving.

KISS MY ASS.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'M FUCKING DONE PLAYING NICE WITH YOU FUCKS.

DS, YOU'RE BEING A FUCKING BLIND MORON WHO IS OVERRELIANT ON FUCKING ROLEINTERACTIONS AND TUNNELING AND IT'S FUCKING MAKING YOU A GODDAMMNED TERRIBLE PLAYER.

NETHER, YOU'RE BEING FUCKING HAUNTED BY GHOSTS OF PARANOIA AND FEAR AND LETTING IT CONTROL YOU AND HOLY SHIT IT'S BAD.

I SWEAR TO GOD, ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS TYPE "VOTE: MARQUIS" AND THE GAME IS OVER BUT NO YOU CAN'T FIND ENOUGH BRAIN CAPACITY

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lol if i'm your "100% scum" pick for sure why are you so concerned with having to prove me wrong rather than just scum. like now it just looks like you're mad at me scumreading you over titus, when if you actually believed your "reads" it's more likely you'd just dismiss me than attempting to explain yourself. it's like you're still trying to make yourself look good for later, anticipating my townflip.

but is the game going to end today after all? oh no! you're in danger

No one is gonna fucking lynch you tomorrow, asshole.

That's why I'm pushing so hard today.

I don't trust these assclowns to lynch you when I flip town, or when Titus flips town.

Otherwise, I'd fucking let it all ride and watch you fucking burn for being such a cocky arrogant dickweed.

but last time i checked your stated reason for lynching me today was because of the whole potential draw bullshit!

WOWO OWWOWOWWOOWOWOWOWOOWOWOWOOW

FUCK YOU I HAVE SO MANY REASONS AND YOURE CHERRY PPICKING ONE THING I BROUGHT UP

HOLY FUCK THE MISREPRESENTATION

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Go play in a fucking septic tank, you waste of breath.

Jesus, "oh your rage is fake, oh, look at that space"

is there nothing you can't misrepresent? are you like the king of fake scumtells?

Seriously, it's impressive, and makes me want to fucking BASH YOUR FUCKING BEIANS IN FWWQJdgsghsf
bS
dssgnhtme
\zds'aF
gdfdfzsf
fshn
dhf

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Go play in a fucking septic tank, you waste of breath.

Jesus, "oh your rage is fake, oh, look at that space"

is there nothing you can't misrepresent? are you like the king of fake scumtells?

Seriously, it's impressive, and makes me want to fucking BASH YOUR FUCKING BEIANS IN FWWQJdgsghsf
bS
dssgnhtme
\zds'aF
gdfdfzsf
fshn
dhf

I wonder how many more times you'll be allowed to get away with being a horrible person before the rules are actually enforced.

Yeah, ok, this is too far but calling me a fucking truther, that's TOTALLY ACCEPTABLE.

Get off your fucking highhorse, you cunt.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Nether, can you ask the mod on how... flexible they will be in you telling me what kinds of things Titus has said in those neighbourhoods over the nights? Like, whether you can basically copy and paste, post word for word, paraphrase, or whether you have to like, be vague?

Because I feel like I'm missing a good 30% of the game's info here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok guys, I AM going to reread this game, but I fear that will only stick me into ingrown biases from when I originally read those comments.

So, while I'm going to supplement my actions today with a healthy re-read of things (and a new read of things I haven't seen, like Titus' posts in the QTs), my main focus today is going to be on discerning the difference in motivations you've had over the game.

So, we start here:

1)We all know that, had Nether chosen to target anyone but SDB the night he investigated him, this game would likely be over. (Exceptions being Spiffeh or DS, but those were never options on his pallette and would have gotten Nether lynched, so)

The questions I have for you both on this subject:

We know it benefits Nether!scum to target SDB, and kill one of the receivers, because if gives him the most possible outs, and doesn't give town an innocent result (which would have been game over for the scum). The question is, is there any real world where Nether!town makes that play? Nether was adamant earlier that he made a mistake. He even went as far to suggest he had

locked in an investigation on me, and then changed it

. Nether, I'd like to give you a chance to explain what made you make these choices. Why change off of me? Why investigate SDB? Titus, I'd like to hear whether you think there exists any world where this kind of explination and action can really come from town.

2) We all know Titus' interactions with Ika day 1 were odd, to say the least. My perspective on them, up until this point, has been that this was a function of Ika being scum, and Titus not knowing how to really handle the dissonance between wanting to work with Ika, and seeing how Ika was posting.

My questions to you are this:

Is there a world where Ika and Titus don't plan their interactions beforehand in the scum qt, should they be scum together? Is it more likely these two players, who are

known to have the ability to solidly read each other, or at least decently

would not plan something to fake, or just hard bus one another? For Titus, I would like an explination of what was going through your mind during the day 1 wagon, what your feelings on Ika were, what drove your actions, what created that awkwardness. For Nether, I would like your opinion on whether it is possible that Ika and Titus would be so unprepared going into that day, ESPECIALLY day 1, and whether this was some kind of failed "half-bus".

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I highly encourage you both to ask me any kinds of questions like these you want answered, concerning my motivations.

It helps me 2 ways. 1) It helps you see that I am infact town, and shed some of the paranoia.
2) It helps me see what kinds of things concern you, and whether you're simply fabricating kind of meaningless questions, or whether your concerns are valid. Essentially, when you stare into me, the cat stares back at mew.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Acually, question 3, since this is bugging the shit out of me:

Nether, what is your motivation for saying "If you quicklynch me, there's nothing I can do about it."?

Titus, what is your motivation in dignifying that with an automated, obvious response?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and the 3rd question?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Acually, question 3, since this is bugging the shit out of me:

Nether, what is your motivation for saying "If you quicklynch me, there's nothing I can do about it."?

Titus, what is your motivation in dignifying that with an automated, obvious response?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

??/??????????

What?

How does that in any fucking way have anything to do with

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Not quicklynching here.

While I think Marquis was wrong, this is Lylo and I do need to reread.

THIS SHIT?

HOW DOES THAT COMPUTE, TITUS I'M FUCKING BROKEN

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm tilted.

I'm super tilted.

Nothing makes sense and you're not helping, god why do you make me suffer so

[Lady Lambdadelta]

OK BUT LIKE

WHY IS THAT CONVERSATION HAPPENING?

LIKE, TAKE A REAL LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND ASK YOURSELF

"HMM, WAS I GOING TO QUICK LYNCH ANYONE TODAY ANYWAY?"

OR IS THIS CONVERSATION TOPIC WE HAD LITERALLY JUST PLACATION?

LIKE, WHAT MOTIVATION DO YOU HAVE TO EVEN DISCUSS THAT, TITUS? WE BOTH ALREADY TOLD HIM THIS YESTERDAY, AND TOWNIES GENERALLY DON'T FUCKING QUICKLYNCH IN LYLO UNLESS THEY'RE MOORONS.

ARE YOU A MORON TITUS, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and further, like, what is the motivation for them publically talking about it again, after talking about it in the QT?

Like, so I can see it? are you trying to convince me you're town in this fashion?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

of course he fucking already planned to murder DS, dude.

Think about it.

Not killing DS means a cop result exists, and sure he ccan just kill whoever he targets with the cop

but....

if anyone but DS dies, whichever one of you or me is still alive is confirmed town.

So maybe he like, kills you and tries to get me to lynch DS?

But that's just an untenable situation.

He more or less HAS to kill DS.

BTW, you said you wanted him to target himself with the cop?

I would like to direct your attention to the rules

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You cannot target yourself

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This is why "automated repetition of a conversation we already had" is fucking bad, ebcause one of you is scum and is obviously going to do whatever they can. There's no more "how will this make me look later". The name of the game for scum is "convince one person you are town and/or convince one person someone else is scum".

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I already told you what I'm trying to learn. My goal is to endevour to learn the motivations behind some of the more impactful actions you've both taken this game, and use that to get a better idea of which of you two is scum.

Also, what I've learned is that you don't know how to read. It's not the cop result, or the night kill that kills you, it's this.

Titus and LLD scum both are required to kill DS.

DS!scum is required to kill you.

You can't kill yourself, so if DS doesn't die, along with the result that will provide, it makes you very obviously scum.

You can claim "oh people might kill different things for WIFOM" but literally, DS was a forced kill for Titus or I, and since

DS couldn't know who you were targetting, he would have been forced to kill YOU

.

Which means the literal only kill you could make that wouldn't instantly make you obvious scum would be DS.

Understand now?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I understand this logic but I still believe you underrate the WIFOM.
I'd think twice before making so obvious conclusions.
Anyway, your logic says that any scum!one of us was forced to kill DS (except DS himself ofc). What does that give us even if we exclude the WIFOM?

The comment was in reference to Titus' post, claiming that she was responsible for DS being the kill last night, because she some how made you target yourself.

My response to that was "any scum already had planned to kill DS this night, almost certainly, and btw also you can't target yourself per the rules what the fuck are you smoking titus"

In terms of actual "does this knowledge help us find out who scum is?" it's.... not amazingly helpful, but watching both your reactions to the logic gives me things to think on.

I need new content, fresh content, to be confident in my read, because right now I'm battling against 7 prior days of bias and it's really hard.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, understand that I don't just play differently than both of you, I'm an entire other ballpark. Both of you today are gonna go back and review posts and come to an informed conclusion based on "logic and fact" and I'm just sitting here trying to make sense of how you're going to come to a different result than you came to before?

Like, that's my thing. I need to generate content and reactions to feel even remotely confident today. I hope that at least one of you gets on this bandwagon with me, and starts playing this game with me, because you'll se very quickly, that once you engage me, my town motivations are clear.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I won't be posting much content before I'll re-read the game.
I really need that because I've already forgot half of the events in the game.

I mean, you do what you think is best, I just like...

I don't grasp the concept, and I'd so prefer to have a buddy who is willing to play reaction/intent/motivation ping pong with me.

Like, that instead of actively going through a library of awkward content, chooses to give me the chance to read them correctly, by engaging me on a field that I can understand.

Because I'm expecting both of you to post huge fucking walls that I won't read because they'll be dull and easily replicable by scum. EASILY faked.

So... I mean, do you, but please consider.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why are you supposing I will come to a different conclusion?

?

Is this directed at me?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll assume it is and respond and if it isn't then oh well I don't care.

I'm not assuming you'll come to a different conclusion, I'm afraid you're fucking scum, Titus.

I'm legitimately afraid that you've been buddying me since day fucking 1, and I've held a blindspot for you, amplified by the good I thoguht you were doing with the neighbourhood.

I'm also afraid OF THAT FEAR. That my own paranoia about you might drive me to make a wrong choice and I won''t forgive myself.

I take losses as town extremely hard, especially ones where I was in control and couldn't win the game for my team.

I'm less concerned that one of you will read me incorrectly. I think that both of you will see, through the way I play, that I'm town and in the end that's all I CAN do.

I can't control either of your opinions on me, and I know for sure that one of you is scum, so only one of your opinions actually matters.

So for the moment, instead of worrying about what I can't control (i.e: being read correctly as town) I'll just let my play do the talking for me, and focus on what I CAN control (i.e: correctly figuring out which of you is scum).

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, understand that I don't just play differently than both of you, I'm an entire other ballpark. Both of you today are gonna go back and review posts and come to an informed conclusion based on "logic and fact" and I'm just sitting here trying to make sense of how you're going to come to a different result than you came to before?

Like, that's my thing. I need to generate content and reactions to feel even remotely confident today. I hope that at least one of you gets on this bandwagon with me, and starts playing this game with me, because you'll se very quickly, that once you engage me, my town motivations are clear.

Last question first paragraph. Why do you feel certain I am going to reach a different result?

I don't see above.

It's not in my control what you see, it's only in my control what I do and what I see.

So I figure, if one of you comes and plays this game with me, not only will I get a solid read on you, but if you're TOWN you might also get a solid town read on me.

Which are both requirements to win the game today for town, SO.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

1. Now we know the flips which will make us reading many posts in a completely different way knowing it's coming from scum or town perspective.
2. I can't read emotions, it's tough for me to read motivations (but I'm trying) so yes, I'm using mostly logic. I agree it may be not a best way to play Mafia but that's what I can do.
3. When I had played less games I thought that whatever people say at LyLo matters much. However, LyLo is a moment when motivation of scum and town become closer than never before. That's why it's really hard to distinguish alignment by content generated in LyLo.
Personally I'm just sharing my thoughts openly, answer questions and stuff but don't value others' content high. Scum would say whatever to win the game.
4. I won't be posting walls. Really. I'll try to figure out who of you is scum. If you both will come to a conclusion that I'm scum, my final decision won't matter at all. We'll still lose. And if at least one of you will come to the conclusion I'm town after re-reading the game or w/e, we'll have a chance of winning and making that chance higher is my primary task for now.

Ok, then meet me half way.

If your posting isn't... atrociously dull, I'll run through your points and give my opinions.

Conversely, don't singularly rely on that for your reads today. Participate in what I'm doing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

@LLD

, permission to paraphrase stuff from the hood without timestamps is given so I'll start tomorrow (going to sleep soon).

Best kind, thanks.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Titus, I really enjoy being asked questions and then having zero response for my answers.

Like, it's really hard to get a read on you when you do that and it's fucking annoying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok, then meet me half way.

If your posting isn't... atrociously dull, I'll run through your points and give my opinions.

Conversely, don't singularly rely on that for your reads today. Participate in what I'm doing.

I will participate but it won't affect my reads most likely.

I mean... that's kind of literally half way, which is funny.

I suppose that's fine, as long as I can read you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Speaking of which:
{Lady Lambdadelta}
{Courier New, Minami no Hana, Nethersprite, Spiffeh, DiamondSentinel}
{SnarkySnowman}
{SDB, Void Protectorate, hi im Yakko}
{hi im Yakko, PeregrineV}
{Firebringer}
{The Random Encounter, Imperium}
{Stairway to the Abyss, Wisdom}

I think I have my decision, but I will not state what it is yet to see what happens.

I see the wishes of the dead as Tammy + Antihero vote Nether
Marquis + Spiffeh are vote LLD

Also what the fuck does that Ika post have to do with anything, Titus?

Like, why are you choosing today to be cryptic as fuck and make literally no sense.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't mind helping you with reading me for the case you're town.
So if you want anything from me I'm up for it.

Ok, let's start here.

Why the fuck is Titus being so fucking cryptic today?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think she has made some conclusion from analyzing that readlist.
I tried to do the same, to be honest, but ... it's too WIFOMy for me.

What conclusion?

Ika town read both of us, and he town read me for whatever that stupid "OMG LLD TOWNSLIPPED" bullshit he was pulling to try and make it look like he was offering content.

So I don't really see what kind of conclusion she's drawing from that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Titus is being cryptic because moonlogic I guess.

Fuck dude is that gonna be her fucking security blanket for anytime she makes no fucking sense?

Oh don't worry, it's moonlogic.

Fuck that dude, it's 3p Lylo, there's literally no positive purpose in being so fucking cryptic and making yourself HARDER to read.

Townies don't want to be hard to read in lylo, they want to be EASY TO READ.

WHY IS SHE BEING HARD TO READ.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why in the actual fuck am I trapped ina fucking game with two fucking people who only fucking rely on fucking moronic logic that will get them fucking nowhere and WAREHTRWEAWRQEWEhAJSRDYK,KUDTSRGDS

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm tired of this fucking game dude.

Everytime I try to get invested, some moron pops up out of the wood work and makes my job fucking impossible.

Everytime I try to win the game for town, some moron pops up and says "oops I didn''t do my job with the night actions teehee I'm such a dummy"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Speaking of which:
{Lady Lambdadelta}
{Courier New, Minami no Hana, Nethersprite, Spiffeh, DiamondSentinel}
{SnarkySnowman}
{SDB, Void Protectorate, hi im Yakko}
{hi im Yakko, PeregrineV}
{Firebringer}
{The Random Encounter, ImperiumVOTE: }
{Stairway to the Abyss, Wisdom}

I think I have my decision, but I will not state what it is yet to see what happens.

I see the wishes of the dead as Tammy + Antihero vote Nether
Marquis + Spiffeh are vote LLD

Also what the fuck does that Ika post have to do with anything, Titus?

Like, why are you choosing today to be cryptic as fuck and make literally no sense.

I am. I am trying to get the scum to vote first to confirm my read is accurate.

You're big on motivations LLD. Why does scum Numbers make that readslist?

To look more town. He already committed himself to townreading me hard with that "townslip" he found, where I didn't know the name of the scum group.

So he figures that his best option is to polarize himself, make a huge read list.

Best case scenario, it gets him out of being lynched.

Worst case scenario, it looks bad as connections for someone later on. I.E: Me

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, please answer the question. Why does scum Numbers argue you town slipped and make their readslist the way they did?

My best guess is that they thought it might gain my favour and I mgith save them, or that it might protect them.

Or possibly they might be trying to get me lynched down the road with it. It's a very strong connection.

Probably both, frankly.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, you say you know Ika well Titus, what's your take on it?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why those people where he put them though? Why are Wisdom, me and Imperium scumreads, you conftown and Nether leaning town while the rest of his buddies are null reads?

It's not an ika reads list. If it's content, it's Ranger talking.

Well, if Nether is scum, it's feasable he used to townslip to try and gain town cred, then needed to put one of his scum buddies in the town slot, but chose to put all those town reads below me, to mask connections between them.

If you're scum, it's possible he just wanted to distance as far from you as possible. It would make a lot of sense.

I'm not scum, and I can't think of any reason why scum would try to find a "townslip" on their buddy.

Like, that's asking to be connected and lynched, isn't it?

If anything, I think this makes me look more town but HEY I'M BIAASED I KNOW MY ALIGNMENT, SO.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also how do you guys know it was ranger over Ika? Like, one of you I could see it being an opinion, BOTH of you, there's something I'm missing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also how do you guys know it was ranger over Ika? Like, one of you I could see it being an opinion, BOTH of you, there's something I'm missing.

Speech patterns plus ika doesn't make content as scum. That's why he was lynched.

ok.

This is why I hate hydras. >.>

[Lady Lambdadelta]

He could declare 'townslip' and rate his buddy as top town exactly for WIFOM ('why would he do that to his buddy?!')
Or he wanted to distance from his buddy as far as possible.
In any case, I'm not surprised he put one of his buddies on the end of his reads spectre. That was part of my townread on Marquis (irrational part though but I've explained it above I'm using them all the time and they most of the time are correct).

somethign something perspective is reality.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Care to elaborate for a non-native speaker?

it means exactly what titus said. You said exactly nothing useful or interesting because Titus and I already know from your perspective one of us has to be scum, whether you're town or scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As of who of you is scum - this readslist gives no idea about it.

Titus, now would be a good a time as any to show us what you see in that list. We've both answered you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No scum, especially lurker scum, has tried to make the case their buddy town slipped when going down.

Pretty sure Numbers was hard bussed.

Ok but out of the 3 of us, you're the only one who was on the Numbers wagon at the end of the day.

Can one of you who already fucking made a record of how people's votes changed over day 1 show me that list again?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh gods, Nether was on Snarky and then spent the rest of the day not voting before ending up on the Courier wagon.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

oh wait, tht's a vote from day 2

[Lady Lambdadelta]

sorry sorry I assumed all the quotes in titus' post were from day 1

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Nah, I made two point s in the same post.

1) Nether was on counter to scum.
2) Noether's D2 wagon is horrible.

Ah, ok. I see.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So yeah, given I think Nether's scum, I want him to vote first.

This raises the question, why don't you just vote Nether and confirm me as town?

Like, given Nether's recent statements that he'll likely vote you, isn't this the same thing?

I'm curious why it needs to be Nether, instead of you...

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I never said it's more likely I'll vote Titus.

Ah, I meant more along the lines that your recent statements made it seem like you would be looking to vote titus.

Is this not the case?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

in either case, I'm just asking the question of Titus why it needs to be you first, if she's so confident in you being scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So yeah, given I think Nether's scum, I want him to vote first.

This raises the question, why don't you just vote Nether and confirm me as town?

Like, given Nether's recent statements that he'll likely vote you, isn't this the same thing?

I'm curious why it needs to be Nether, instead of you...

Optimal strategy is to force scum to vote first. Prevents town derping in the rare event of being wrong.

Isn't it mathematically the same, and only reliant on whether you are correct or not?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No. Having Nether vote first should eliminate that possibility. If he votes you, he confirms me. You will then vote Nether. Thus, I don't have to persuade you on Nether scum. If Nether votes me, you become confirmed town if i am right. Then it's about persuading you. If I am wrong, well gg but it was because Nether thought I was scum too.

If I vote first and I am wrong, you win.

If nether is scum, he gets to pick his poison, which means he'll pick the person least likely to lynch him.

If nether is town... if he's wrong, you win.

I think we're both saying the same thing here. "It's optimal for me to be confirmed town, because I'm town."

[Lady Lambdadelta]

To be clear, he'll pick the person least likely to lynch him to be confirmed town, if he is scum.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Aigo, this game is confusing.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vote: Nether

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not even scum here, don't try that fucking shade with me.

Is this your last resort? You saw your death coming and so you just went for it?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, it actually makes sense. You figure that you might be able to goad Titus into voting me if you vote for me instead, and make her confirmed town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

So you're going to rely on WIFOM then?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Titus, I'm tired of this game.

You know I'm town. You know this is a final desperate plea. Please just end this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Holy fuck dude.

You're really going for this.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD, I am going to read the ISOs of dead town one more time before I resolve this. D1 and D2 really sealed this for me. Sorry Marquis and Spiffeh but I am going with Antihero and Imperium's reads.

Do what you need to do. I am putting my faith in you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, I'm trying to stay calm for you and not blow up at Nether because I know it's bad for my health and makes it harder for yo but like

I just am struggling to hold my emotion in.

And I can't stay calm.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Holy fuck I need to find something else to do or I'm going to fucking explode.

Or like, I need to talk to you titus because I'm fucking losing my mind

[Lady Lambdadelta]

My paranoia?
How I'm terrified you'll mislynch me and I'll have wasted all my time on this game for nothing?

How my brain is constantly telling me I'm not doing enough to cconvince you

while other parts of my brain are telling me that you already know I'm town and I shouldn't worry

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Mostly, I'm just looking for a fucking sedative, Titus. DID fucking sucks.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean, we can go through and talk all about how Nether is scum, and how all this shit has been like, master planned by him.

Like the Firebringer kill. Easy for Nether to pull off, not so for me, given I have no access to the QTs.

And it's long been pretty clear that someone in the QT was scum, turns out it was 2 people.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I think I have issues with losing control.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And this entire game, I've felt like I've had no control.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and yesterday, for once, I thoguht I had control, I thoguht I solved it, Marquis was scum!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

/me sighs

and all of this is probably making you paranoid about ME, because paranoia is CONTAGIOUS

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Well, I win.

I don't know about you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

[Lady Lambdadelta]

See that kitten?

See how happy you made her?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That's a really, really happy kitten Titus.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lld

when will you stop killing me?

i'm starting to take it personally. :'(

When it stops making sense to have you dead

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want dead thread access mods pls

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I want dead thread access mods pls

I'm pretty busy atm, I'll do post-game stuff as soon as possible.

that's fair, but can you release the dead and scum threads before any of the other work?

I just wanan read it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm happy to have the scum thread released.

It's... interesting.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'll be honest with you this game was major town sided.

For the simple fact that Recievers were the real power roles in this game, and there were no scum usable power roles to really balance.

Like, how do I put this.

Town had too much redundancy to not be advantaged in this game. Even if we get lucky and kill their cop, the GM could always randomly assign a new one, and boom, there you go.

The GM wwas near impossible to kill, as a result of having to take care of other roles. Our roleblock on kill only hits Sensors and Emitters, it doesn't roleblock otherwise.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Town just had a lot of redundancy, good power, and a topic to tie it all together so they could coordinate actions.

That's kind of really powerful.

Maybe if the roles went out differently. Maybe had scum been given te Rolestop emitter, or the Cop.

Maybe we could have had more freedom to do things.

As it was, I had my hands more or less repeatedly tied in this game and it was frustrating as all hell.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

LLD played fantastically

Her scumteam did like nothing after Day 2 and the setup was townsided and she still pulled off a win.

I believe this is an appropriate conclusion

Thanks.

I really wanted to like.... prove something here.

I wanted to prove I was good at this game to people. That I could genuinely do the things I say I can do, and prove those who doubt me wrong.

It's funny, I warned town like 5 or 6 times "this is the optimal play" "don't go for the sub optimal play"

and they just kept doing it, and letting me back in the game.

Kind of insane.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I mean, I don't play like you even remotely.

I was basically ignoring you, Titus. I was focused on mindgaming DS for the last 2 days. First, to try and get him to target Marquis, so I could kill FB, then to get him to lynch Marquis.

Seriously, Marquis, you did amazing. I think the only mistake you made, silly as it is to say, was switching onto me as the end of the day you were lynched.

DS was ready to lynch and didn't want to wait much longer. You probably win that lylo situation, if you just stay on Titus.

But taking Titus out of lynch range kind of killed you I think. Maybe not, dunno what DS thought, but that was my perspective on it

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah and that perspective fucking sucks Titus.

Because there will always be people like me who won't meat your logical expectations and will steamroll the shit out of you for trying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Also, Wisdom, you annoying motherfucker.

Stop only joining games where I'm scum god dammit. I don't think you've played a single game with me where I was town.

>.>

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Did I mention it was my secret win condition to leave you alive through LYLO Titus?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

cause it totally was

[Lady Lambdadelta]

lol lld, you'd probably say the exact same thing about me that you did about wis if i'd lived longer. i dont have any problem w/ changing my reads on a dime

YEAH BUT THIIS IS WHY I KILLED YOU.

I think this is my single best ability as scum.

I'm extremely good at nightkills. I kill people JUST at the right time.

Talk to Imperium. They realized I was scum and were like "oh we're probably dead tonight given LLD is scum and we know now"

and of course, they were.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Me too.

I mean, my insanity definitely showed, but hey!

insane people cn play gamees too >.>b

[Lady Lambdadelta]

GG. lld sorry for the misunderstanding midgame; it was not my intention to hamstring you into making a certain kill, just what i felt would happen if we didnt go a certain route.

I kinda wanted out regardless of that.

yeah no I definitely took it the way you described in the dead thread, and realizing that's not what you meant I apologize too.

I just wasn't willing to negotiate with terrorists etc.

My bad etc

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm getting like, post partum from this game dude.

I poured so much into it and now it's like... done. It's gone dude... it's gone....

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As someone who followed most of the game, I thought D7 was the biggest turning point. It was obvious then that LLD was the last mafia based on the Marquis push which was purely because Marquis had her as a second scumread after Titus, and while that may benefit him as mafia, it could also easily have been a town thought. I don't think DS and Nether were really thinking it through or giving the game the thought and effort it deserved. The hammer was particularly bad and came almost out of laziness. LLD just kept yelling at them repeatedly and DS caved into a strong personality and threw the game. The four of them never really sat down and read the thread and just kept spamming the game with new content without going over the old interactions which would have been really helpful. Admittedly, the early game spam would have made it a task to read which just goes to show why people need to keep their posting rate down.

If I've said it once, I'll say it a million times.

The best way to play scum isn't to play so a majority of people or spectators think you are town.

You just need to convince enough active players of it.

Cater your play to their tendancies, to their desires. Feed them what they want to see.

Then cut their throat and smile.

Here, have a cute cat.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Game should be called LLD and the 3 lurkers.

Anyways ever since Genesis I wanted to play with/against LLD, I got my wish this game but I wasn't counting on both of us being scum. I wish I did more this game but it is what it is.

Were you in Genesis, or were you observing?

That game was... hahahahahha

oh my

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Game should be called LLD and the 3 lurkers.

i disagree

i think ranger did a good job of hanging in there even when things were looking really bad. i respect that.

Yeah, Ranger never gave up. It's admirable.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

It's ok Titus LYLO is always a tough situation to be in

Hopefully we can all learn something from this game though

What am I to learn from this game, Spiffeh?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

How fun I am to play with duh

I am coming to really enjoy playing with you Spiffeh.

Also, I FUCKING PAID YOU BACK FOR THAT SHITTY DICE GAME GOD DAMN YOU.

YOU AND NACHO BOTH. EAT IT, NYA~~~~

/me pouts

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Buh, yeah I figured what I was hoping I'd see I wouldn't. I followed the blitz game and when it ended I thought I'd see a fire in you for Nacho. You had him dead to rights from like his first post, so I was hoping that that game would ripple a bit into this one. I was confident that if you were town here you would read us right based on how easily you read him there, but I was hoping you'd kinda put us under a microscope a bit and maybe the way you did it could help me read you better.

But then I saw how much you internalized that loss and I figured that wouldn't happen. You shouldn't internalize that loss though btw; I mean I know how much you like to win, but your reads were great and you made the game fun to follow. The stars just didn't align to get them lynched; the town just couldn't really come together for whatever reason, and it wasn't your fault. It is a team game and you can't always carry everything yourself. I wanted to give you a virtual hug or say something after the game because I felt bad for how you took it but I felt weird about it, but now I wish I would have because I don't want you to interpret this as anything other than me thinking you played a great game and you shouldn't feel bad.

I'm getting ready to run out the door but I we will engage you and get you in the game because if you're town I want that Lexi that was just on fire to get in here. When you're paying attention and really in the game, your reads can be really on point. I think you picked up on something no one else noticed with UT in fantasy camp, and I want that. But I also know or think I do that you sometimes don't really get into things until day three or four or so in larges, but I don't want to wait that long to be able to go okay yeah I feel good about LLD. And I don't want to die leaving nebulous watch out for her with people just ignoring it because I'm silly. If I were good at doing the fake wagon thing, I'd start one on you to see how you reacted but that's never been my forte.

Anyway, I have to go, so later.

Tammy, I never did get a chance to completely thank you for this.

Thank you so much. I needed to hear this kind of thing after that game and it meant a lot.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

HEY COME ON.

I DESERVE THIS.

YOU SAID YOU WANTED TO SEE LLD SCUM YAH?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

...

you sound salty

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hi ika, need to talk? I'm here. Calm down. Ignore Titus. She's not worth it and who cares what anyone thinks. You already proved them wrong when you were scum with me.

Make sure to tell Ika that the monsters in his closet aren't real

oh and uh, change his diaper for him later too will you?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Hi ika, need to talk? I'm here. Calm down. Ignore Titus. She's not worth it and who cares what anyone thinks. You already proved them wrong when you were scum with me.

Make sure to tell Ika that the monsters in his closet aren't real

oh and uh, change his diaper for him later too will you?

Fuck off

How about you take your little spectacle somewhere fucking else, instead of shitting up this thread with it yeah?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, I get it, Ika wants to have a hissy fit what else is new. He threw a fucking hissy fit at me when we played drunk mafia the other day.

Like, this is normal behaviour for him as far as I can tell.

Only thing I can't figure is why you're having your little heart to heart here in public instead of, I don't know, not even fucking engaging Titus and leaving the thread?

consider that, maybe?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Congratulations on being the most valuable scum member.

This.

Titus, I'm really disappointed.
You played more games with me than anyone else in this game and you just go with the common trend of scumreading me for me being honest?
It was my textbook town play, where the hell did you get the idea I'm scum even?

But the fact that pisses me the most about this game is TWO FUCKING TOWNIES IN A ROW JUST HURRIED TO MISLYNCH WHILE I WAS FUCKING SLEEPING.
><
*sad panda face*

I am... so sorry.

so so sooooo sorry.

You played a lot better in the second half of the game, if it's any consolation.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not trying to intervene, I'm telling you to fuck off.

This thread is for post game content regarding the game and its events. You said what you wanted to say, now take your fucking pity party and go somewhere else, yeah?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

???

I got nothing to say. My town game wasn't the best, but you are obvious as scum ika. That's not a personal attack. Can you please not talk to me? SW too? Like really, wtf?

You need to fuck right off too.

This is not helping either.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Me not switching the target N6 would have win us the game btw.

@Mod, please confirm I had LLD as my target initially

Ah, I have no doubt you did this. Absolutely no doubt. No need to confirm.

I like to attribute that any win in mafia takes a small amount of luck. In the end, I played well enough to give you pause about investigating me, but I can't control who you investigate, so I got a little lucky on that front.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not trying to intervene, I'm telling you to fuck off.

This thread is for post game content regarding the game and its events. You said what you wanted to say, now take your fucking pity party and go somewhere else, yeah?

How about no? everthing i have said as well as silver has said is completely relvant to the said game as you cna see she has quotes that also affected her so you can kgo somewhere else. silver has every damn right to dowaht she likes and if you cnat handel it and that your jsut jelous of it you can scream all you liek but it does nothing, silver and i can post what we like and if you dont like it then too fuckign bad

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The way to not shit up a thread post game is to not personally attack the other players or respond to anything you don't like. It really is that simple.

Oh, so you mean how you personally attacked Titus when you said her opinion and she herself "wasn't worth it"?

or how Ika personally attacked her by yelling at her for basically having done nothing

or is it the time when you two basically came in here and starting shit posting, which was just offensive to my eyes.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm not trying to intervene, I'm telling you to fuck off.

This thread is for post game content regarding the game and its events. You said what you wanted to say, now take your fucking pity party and go somewhere else, yeah?

How about no? everthing i have said as well as silver has said is completely relvant to the said game as you cna see she has quotes that also affected her so you can kgo somewhere else. silver has every damn right to dowaht she likes and if you cnat handel it and that your jsut jelous of it you can scream all you liek but it does nothing, silver and i can post what we like and if you dont like it then too fuckign bad

Says the scum who wanted to concede to the game.

Well, when my partners aren't posting, and I'm in a losing position, I really don't care to play out unwinable games.

SDB coming back and eating a cop result made this game winnable again.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

In any case, I'd like to thank Wisdom, Imperium, Spiffeh, Marquis and LLD for making this game fun for me.
I did my best and if people wouldn't be so eager to hammer while I was sleeping I could change the outcome of the game.

I enjoyed playing with you. It was a pleasure.

I should also probably apologize to Marquis for some of the shit I said in anger....

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like want me to rip quotes out form scum PT that said you hated it and you wanted to quit? cus really the fact you wanted to do that shows more then enough

pedit: do you have quotes to back up any acusations cus right now you are the one shit posting here. we are jsut staing our stuff that was relavent to he game that has been misrepesented so what the hell are you going on about, cus i mean your previous post was shit posting in itself so you have not rights to call em nor silver any of that

You're fucking terrorizing Titus for no reason.

Titus has asked you to fucking stop talking to her.

What more reason do you need to leave? LMFAO

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like go talk to the singular person who wants to hear your shit. I'm sure SilverWolf will tell you all about how you're special and amazing somewhere else.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Whatever, Ika. It's not worth wasting the breath on you. You're clearly delusional.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sorry Nether. I bungled this one. This was my worst town game in awhile. The fault's on me here.

We all sometimes play not very good.
I'm only saddened you couldn't realize we're on the same side I've read you correctly in the end.

Gonna brag a bit here and say it might have had a bit to do with how pot commited she was on her town read to me.

Like, in poker terms, I was a hand she couldn't fold.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Sorry Nether. I bungled this one. This was my worst town game in awhile. The fault's on me here.

We all sometimes play not very good.
I'm only saddened you couldn't realize we're on the same side I've read you correctly in the end.

Gonna brag a bit here and say it might have had a bit to do with how pot commited she was on her town read to me.

Like, in poker terms, I was a hand she couldn't fold.

Your play here was very good Imo. You were dealt a bad hand and made the best of it. I'm thinking about nominating you for a scummy tbh. It might have been I was just that fooled and no one else was though.

I mean, this game was basically a 13 v 1.

I had to fool more than you at SOME point.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Yeah but all the players who would ever catch me are already dead. That's be beauty. You keep wrong players alive.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Rolesensor wasn't that bad for me!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Alignment sensor was killed N3, not N1.

I wish we had a better GM though. Not a single dayvig after staying alive for so long was pathetic.

Yeah except you didn't want him to day vig.

He was gonna dayvig Marquis (submitted too late) the day PV was lynched.

Which would have meant I only needed 1 more mislynch to win, which makes this game sort of trivial at that point.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Rolesensor wasn't that bad for me!

It was ~great~ for you, mostly because Peregrine screwed up.

I mean in the end it didn't matter, but, we did find out Nacho was a tracker through my role too.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

You could have done that as well or better as a receiver, though.

I think it was a mistake to receive from players whose role you already knew (such as SDBs). There is power in exploring, especially with an alignment sensor on the loose (and you guys should have probably speculated the likely existence of that role).

I think it's a borked role!

I expected it only because I'm a pessemist, and figured "oh hey Kagami probably did this cause she's mean"

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am going to pose an open question to the people of this game.

I'm looking for someone to talk to me with regards to my strengths and weaknesses in my scum game, and how I could improve.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I am going to pose an open question to the people of this game.

I'm looking for someone to talk to me with regards to my strengths and weaknesses in my scum game, and how I could improve.

The only suggestion I have is that you should probably tone down the aggression toward the mod.

I am an angry angry kitten.

And this game made me very angry.

And I have exactly one place I'm allowed per site rules to post my anger, in my scum QT.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


yeah

VENTING

[Lady Lambdadelta]

but yes, it shouldn't be an excuse for it.

I'm sorry to anyone who felt attacked over the line. I have... issues controlling myself.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah, but AtE is a bad tell anyway.

Town and scum both use emotion, and both have interest in appealing to that emotion to get what they want.

Purely logical players will continue to fall short until they understand that emotion is required.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah, but AtE is a bad tell anyway.

Town and scum both use emotion, and both have interest in appealing to that emotion to get what they want.

Purely logical players will continue to fall short until they understand that emotion is required.

Logically, I have a 79% of lynching scum if I lynch an emotional player. Dem's good odds.

?

how did you get that number

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you have a stat of emotional players who were scum in your games?

???

[Lady Lambdadelta]

That was an interesting read.

Wish I didn't have to kill you. Would have helped me a lot!

[Lady Lambdadelta]

on balance

Ok, so firstly, is the setup balanced? Before rolling for alignment, I think it's probably somewhat townsided. I think this particular instantiation (scum gets 3 receivers and 1 watch sensor) is actually pretty even, despite the objections people are raising.

What actually happened

Let's take a look at how the setup actually played out. LLD had a very difficult time winning, which she attributes in part to not having enough tools to deal with town power.

So what was this overwhelming town power? Town had an IC she had to kill because he could backup-ize and vig people. Town had an Alignment Sensor who got a single investigation off throughout the entire game. Town had a tracker who gave town a single Track result (on titus). Town had a neighborhood that had been infiltrated by scum.

Is a 4-13 game with an IC, and one-shot Loud Cop, and one-shot Loud Tracker, and a neighborhood that starts with a scummo in it townsided? No, in fact, it would be incredibly scumsided. Both investigations would have to get positives on scum to bring the game to a 2-11 mountainous (which is still extremely scumsided).

That LLD had a challenging game has nothing to do with roles, it's that she was a one-man scumteam. Games are not supposed to be balanced such that a single scum should have a 50% shot of winning through their own prowess, while the rest of their team does nothing.

An aside on NK choices

LLD has said in post-game discussion that she's good at picking NK targets, which people are agreeing on. This is actually a pretty critical thing to talk about at a theoretical level.

What does it mean for a setup to be balanced? It means that if all the players are equally skilled, I should not be able to guess which team is going to win with accuracy above chance. As a corollary to this, the scum's NK decisions in the world of balance theory are dictated by which roles are best to eliminate (since the players behind them are equally skilled).

So what should happen if the scumteam chooses

not

to kill important roles, instead choosing individuals players who they feel are more skilled? What should happen is that the roles of the town should start to feel imbalanced, because at that point they are. The scumteam has opted to enter a gamestate that is more townsided from a role standpoint in exchange for a gamestate that benefits them from a player-skill standpoint.

LLD did this numerous times. In the end, she won despite poorly performing partners, so it's quite possible she made the correct decision. It is, however, absolutely no surprise that she could have lost to roles, since she had no respect for the role-based balance of the game in making many of her kill choices.

From an role-killing perspective: Imperium was a better kill N1 than Wisdom, Imperium had softed sensor and is even a pretty great kill from a skill standpoint. Antihero was another skill-kill, and he had a role that was

known

to be doing absolutely nothing for town. Firebringer's role, the most powerful role in the game, was given very little respect despite the fact that it could have swung the game against LLD at numerous points. He was ignored for skill-based reasons (and, I think, LLD also underestimated the power of his role). Firebringer could have easily been killed instead of Imperium, even if the scumteam didn't believe he was GM going into N2.

Alright you wanna know about kills? Let's talk about kills.

Night 1, I made the single best kill possible. Not only was Wisdom CLEARLY not a receiver (I can't really explain how I knew it, it has to do with how he interacted with Titus for control) he was also just right on basically everything.

It's not under my control to know he'd be the weakest Sensor in the game.

Night 2, we kill Antihero, another role. So far, I'm 2 for 2 on killing sensors/emitters and also killing people who could have easily led town to a better point. I investigated Nacho this night, to see if he was a role. No surprise, he shows up Tracker. 3 for 3.

Night 3, we kill Void, because he claimed cop. I'm not afraid of a tracker when I'm not the one performing the kill. We just used Vampirate to cover those tracks.

I would like to point out at this point, we have killed or contained 4 of the Towns power roles. Simply, the only time we ever had a chance to kill the GM was Night 2, and I struggled to believe the real GM would just claim like that, or play how he did.

The issue after night 3 was that the GM represented such a problem, being able to res roles I had killed. I didn't have an opportunity to kill the GM.

Imperium HAD to die Night 4, because they were ready to lynch me, I could feel it. Nacho confirmed this post game.

It was at this point, with almost no receivers left I switched tacts and went after receivers. Nether almost outplayed me, getting BOTH receivers to target him, instead of one. In the end, he chose to investigate SDB though, which turned out well. A bit of luck here. We killed Spiffeh night 5, to be clear.

From this point, there were veyr few paths to victory, a lot of them probably due to a lack of a scum team. Vampirate and SDB slated to die, meant I needed to carry.

Tricking DS into targetting Marquis, and killing the GM was the best move I could have made night 6, and it paid dividends for the rest of the game. I removed the final receiver night 7 and won the game day 8.

In total, the issue with the setup was the redundancy. A better GM would have absolutely crushed this game, and even with him being revealed Night 2, while I think I made a mistake in not killing him, the fact that FB was so useless de-incentivized me to do so. I underestimated how broken he was.

In the end, I think this setup is just inherently town sided. Too much power, with it being a semi-smalltown game. I think the reason I won can be attributed to good early kills (Wisdom, Antihero) and a lot of luck (SDB). I mean, skill was obviously a factor, but a lot of luck.

On the whole, I enjoyed the game, but you have to understand how frustating it is to be handcuffed because the game just has so much power in it, and I'm sitting here with no power at all. :/

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Even some kind of Roleblocker for the scum would have been helpful.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

and don't give me "the scum kill roleblocks" because no, it doesn't, it simply makes killing Sensors/Emitters more attractive, and that's a bad game to play with a GM hidden.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also, a word on why the Day 4 Mod Error was so egregious.

Day 4, per Firebringers own action, he was going to

kill Marquis

.

With Marquis dead, not only is that a person who would have lynched me gone, it also

Reduces the mislynch number needed for scum to win the game from 2 to 1

So we would have gone into a Day 5 Mylo, instead of a Day 8 LYLO.

Just think about the disparity behind that, and how heavily that helped town.

So, forgive me if I was fucking furious about that, Kagami given it shaped the entire course of the game to come. Do you know how trivial it is to win this game if we're in a Day 5 Mylo with 3 scum still alive? Like seriously consider that.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't know, I think I aired my grievances a little too heavily towards the mods this game, and Kagami didn't deserve that kind of vitriol, but I think it's really just kind of inconsiderate to sit here and tell me that you think this game went exactly as it should have.

I think my problems with this game have a ton of merit, and while the game certainly wasn't so imbalanced as to be unwinnable (as witnessed by my victory) that doesn't make it a balanced game.

I mean, it's not Saint Kerrigan's CYS game (I think tigers ate that one, but it literally confirmed me as scum through another person's role PM because I was a witch), but it's not immune to this form of criticism.

I apologize if my frustrations in the scum thread became Toxic, I simply had no where else to put my feelings and bottling them would have made me truly hate this game.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm also glad that's off my chest, because I've been stewing on it for the past little while, trying to give it time to simmer and not be so emotionally potent, and I think I got it out without being too.... uh.... mean? Awful? Angry?

/me sighs

[Lady Lambdadelta]

since she had no respect for the role-based balance of the game in making many of her kill choices.

Like this is the part that pisses me off.

I had no respect for the role based balance of the game except that every night, 1 through 4, I killed a power role, and your entire argument assumed I know which roles are who, and who is more powerful than others.

Like, it also assumed the scum who had inflitrated the neighbourhood was saying ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

>.>b

[Lady Lambdadelta]

also, a word on why the Day 4 Mod Error was so egregious.

Day 4, per Firebringers own action, he was going to

kill Marquis

.

With Marquis dead, not only is that a person who would have lynched me gone, it also

Reduces the mislynch number needed for scum to win the game from 2 to 1

So we would have gone into a Day 5 Mylo, instead of a Day 8 LYLO.

Just think about the disparity behind that, and how heavily that helped town.

So, forgive me if I was fucking furious about that, Kagami given it shaped the entire course of the game to come. Do you know how trivial it is to win this game if we're in a Day 5 Mylo with 3 scum still alive? Like seriously consider that.

In the scum pt, you had asked vampirate to hammer peregrin as soon as possible in order to keep Imperium quiet, thinking you had just put him at L-1 rather than lynching him.

You said later in the scum PT that you had planned to somehow convince firebringer to shoot marquis, but there's absolutely no chance he wouldn't redistribute the Alignment Sensor if he had the chance to act, and it would reflect incredibly poorly on you if you advocated doing anything other than giving out the alignment sensor that day.

In your reply on balance, over and over you say "I had to kill X because their reads were awesome." I'm sorry that your hand was forced because of strong town-players and/or weak scum-players, but the balance of the game is something that is determined independent of players' skill distribution.

Yeah, but I figured by the time that occured, Firebringer would have submitted.

There's a difference between quicklynching and turbo hammering.

If you're trying to equate the two, to somehow defend the mistake, I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Once again, 4 nights, 4 kills, 4 PRs dead.

Not sure how I'm supposed to be "not worrying about the PRs I'm not killing" here Kagami.

the facts are just plain as day.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like it's just ridiculous, the claims you're making.

Just absurd.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Like, I cant be too upset, I won and I kicked ass, but I'm so tired of this pattern.

I play practical games, with correct solutions to find unique, if ugly, ways to win.

and people tell me "oh you should have done this or that, and this is how the game works, and this is how you played poorly and you're not good just lucky".

Like, I asked you earlier, Kagami, point blank: "How can I improve?" and you came back at me with a fucking joke of an answer.

And now saying this shit and it just feels frankly insulting. I reached out looking to improve and you've just slapped me down so its like whatveer

[Lady Lambdadelta]

This game had 7 power roles and the Grand Machinist.

Of them, I figured out 2 of them during day 1. (Neighbour for titus, and Marquis claimed his Rolestop power). Neither worth killing.

Then, I killed over the next 4 nights, the other 4 roles minus the Watcher sensor who was my scum buddy.

And outed the grand machinist on day 2/3. I admit it was a mistake perhaps, killing Anti over Firebringer. that's the only questionable kill.

That being said, I had knowledge of every power role in the game by day 3. Every single one.

And you're telling me I focused only on player skill, and didn't look at power roles.

I fucking rolecoped Nacho, ffs. Like, god.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I fired 7 kills this game and 5 of them hit PRs.

Effectively, the night 7 kill also hit a PR, since it prevented the cop from being used.

and I admitted I got lucky on Night 5 wrt to the spiffeh kill and who Nether targeted.

Beyond that, like, my game focused heavily on both aspects and I am still convinced there was too much to handle.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

like, god it's frustrating.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

/me sighs

maybe, I dunno

all I have is inside me is fire and all I am is 0 or 100, so, right now I'm 100 and it's frustrating :/

[Lady Lambdadelta]

PRs of this game were the receivers. Not only they were actual PRs but they also could change their ability every night effectively.
No receivers = no PRs. If you focused on killing receivers town would have no neighborhood nor any tracker/cop/whatever by night 4 max.

it's a better long term strategy but leaves open early results, given our kill doesn't stop other receivers from getting a result.

As such, blocking results from cops is priority numero uno

[Lady Lambdadelta]

yeah this assumes I had any information about the hood coming to my ears at any time.