[Mini 1835] - Everything Is A Lie Mafia 4 (Abandoned)

[BNL]

/confirm

[BNL]

I'd refrain from voting the IC. I agree the confirm town message by the mod is suspicious, but lynching him probably won't help the town. In the first game of this series the IC was a Jester, and in the second it was a Lyncher target.

[BNL]

Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lying

Also before the game starts
I'm double Hated apparently

So you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?

VOTE: SirCakez

[BNL]

"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.

Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.

[BNL]

or to follow any voting restriction players decide.

Let's see if this is true

The Counsel must vote itself at once

[BNL]

"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.

Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.

How do you know what he means?

Are you inside his head?

Why would you assume that without asking for clarification?

~Leather

Let me rephrase: Apparently means that he did not stop to consider that his role could be a lie.

I admit this is a weak point, as I can see the arguement for it meaning "its what I'm told and know, but may not be true". My vote isn't completely serious; I don't have really strong reads, and it's early game, so I RVS on really weak reasoning. This is why I voted without clarifying.

[BNL]

See why clarification is important?

Assumptions are bad, m'kay?

Okay, now I'm confused.
I assumed by clarification, you meant with the poster (SirCakez), and not anyone else (Flames).

[BNL]

BNL voting a double hated claim and asking the proxy slot to vote himself seems Icky

Ircher who is your lynch target?

~Lina

Why is it icky?

1. Lynch threshold is 8, double hated means it's 6 for SirCakez, and if we have the same thing from last game we have 5. Even then, 1 vote is still very far from a lynch.

2. That was obviously a joke.

[BNL]

I'm a day vig.

Votes: cakez

Dayvig isn't a negative utility

[BNL]

"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.

Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.

By apparently, I meant that my role says I am, but I'm not sure if I actually am or not.
This should have been obvious, others noted it too.

VOTE: xyzzy
This is confscum

What do you think of 44?

[BNL]

"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.

Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.

By apparently, I meant that my role says I am, but I'm not sure if I actually am or not.
This should have been obvious, others noted it too.

VOTE: xyzzy
This is confscum

What do you think of 44?

I don't think it's a good reason not to lynch him
They'll have to go at some point

Um, what?
Did you even read my post? In both previous games lynching the IC would lead to a 3P win.

[BNL]

Considering how ridiculously bastard this game is, I don't really see an issue with Vedith not pushing Yume over the miller claims
You have to remember that wgeurts is trying to fuck with us
P-edit: I think it's more like 95% chance he's scum. ICs have never been legit in Everything is a Lie games.

Your 95% chance has been heard and thrown at the nearest garbage can. its a new Everything is a Lie game. maybe he is fucking with you to think that is a lie like this games meta.

I mean that's possible but the IC being real doesn't fit the game theme at all.

"Apparently" means that he believes that's he's double hated.

Yes I agree that its a useful fact for him to say that his role PM says he's double hated, and I don't find that scummy. I feel that if his thought processes were real then he should say something like "My role PM says I'm double hated" instead.

By apparently, I meant that my role says I am, but I'm not sure if I actually am or not.
This should have been obvious, others noted it too.

VOTE: xyzzy
This is confscum

What do you think of 44?

I don't think it's a good reason not to lynch him
They'll have to go at some point

Um, what?
Did you even read my post? In both previous games lynching the IC would lead to a 3P win.

It was still a scum lynch, no?
Who cares if a 3P wins as long as scum gets lynched

First was a jester, second was a death miller (real) IC which was also the lyncher's target. I have no idea what you define as scum.

[BNL]

BNL

Do you control (at least) one of the counsel votes?

No, I do not control any part of the Counsel, or at least I don't know if I do. I definitely don't have a private ability to do so.

[BNL]

BNL voting a double hated claim and asking the proxy slot to vote himself seems Icky

Ircher who is your lynch target?

~Lina

Why is it icky?

1. Lynch threshold is 8, double hated means it's 6 for SirCakez, and if we have the same thing from last game we have 5. Even then, 1 vote is still very far from a lynch.

2. That was obviously a joke.

It seems that some people misunderstood this post. The first point was for "voting a double hated claim" only and point 2 was for "asking counsel to vote itself" only.

[BNL]

And some of us aren't hydras, so why should we have to sign?

~Arrow

Because me signing these posts are about as ridiculous as me signing posts under main account.

~Leather

Wow, this sounds kinda like a LAMIST tone.....

Huh? L&L was talking about something NAI, so why would it be a LAMIST tone?

[BNL]

Don't dayvig the IC.

If the IC is not on the same team as mafia, mafia will prob. attempt to shoot them.

The IC should live for a day.

If The Counsel can be day vigged, I'm cool with that.

If they can't, xyzzy needs to go.

~Leather

Didn't I just explain why not to dayvig the IC? Pay attention; lets not screw ourselves, 'kay?

Didn't I just tell you I don't care about your assumption on the scum's nk?

~Leather

No you did not...

[BNL]

As far as I'm concerned, we are at an impasse.

There are two conclusions from my perspective... add me to the counsel so I can judge it for myself since I am the one demanding answers, or kill it.

I don't care which.

~Leather

How do you know you can be "added" to the Counsel?

[BNL]

Ah OK, I missed that.

I'm pretty sure the Counsel is comprised of all dead players plus Wgeurts himself. This is what happened in the previous games of the series.

So if you want to join the Counsel, you have to die (That's my theory, anyway)

[BNL]

The counsel can semi prove that its vote won't be a problem like the way your describing it starting day 2 forward.

Vote for the tawniest players in game (or choose a pool or other ways for that if you can) and I will hand over the voting power to them as well - (I don't know if this works completely in the way I'm talking about it) But I can make other livings join the counsel.

Stop being so tunneled vision, please.

Vote for the towniest players -> they get lynched -> they get into the dead thread (make livings join Counsel) -> they control the Counsel -> they get Counsel's voting power

[BNL]

UNVOTE: SirCakez
VOTE: shos

Since the owner of the Counsel manipulator vote didn't claim, they're likely scum. I think that shos' recent posting regarding the Counsel (363 and 422) is just faked confusion/faked "I'm not involved", as his reveal by the counsel was already hammered.

In light of this, 117 also suggests Shos' possession of the double vote.

[BNL]

If not for the Counsel reveal, Ircher would be my strongest scumread.

Firstly, he has changed his vote too much for my liking.
Next, 311-312 seems like a potential scumslip
Third, 333 case on L&L is extremely weak. Of twelve points, only one is scum, and almost all are null.
Fourth, 348 and 362 vote an anti-town townie? Why would you vote someone who you believe to be lynchbait than actually scum? (I know Ircher has elaborated this in later posts; I don't buy them)

[BNL]

And some of us aren't hydras, so why should we have to sign?

~Arrow

Because me signing these posts are about as ridiculous as me signing posts under main account.

~Leather

Wow, this sounds kinda like a LAMIST tone.....

Huh? L&L was talking about something NAI, so why would it be a LAMIST tone?

Ircher, answer this please.

[BNL]

Flames is town

[BNL]

VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I don't like his posts.

What don't you like about my posts?

[BNL]

VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I don't like his posts.

What don't you like about my posts?

They're scummy as fuck.

That's obviously implied; what's scummy about my posts?

[BNL]

seeing 437, I'm thinking the counsel is probably managed by townies after all.
VOTE: L&L
for now. BNL's posts look like shit, lol. At gamestart he seemed to cause the counsel to selfvote, and now he's trying to say my posts fit as counsel control, which I reaelllly don't see. I'll give him the option to explain.

still reading up

Your "Counsel voting Counsel is suspicious" looked you were setting me up for a mislynch and feels linked to the possession of the manipulator vote.

[BNL]

Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.

If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former. The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.

@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:

What do you disagree about this?

[BNL]

R&L added to townpool

[BNL]

The Counsel is likely controlled by scum (if shos is town), so we reduce the scum's voting power?

[BNL]

^The Counsel lying about Shos manipulator vote

[BNL]

Why should a proxy account which is getting yelled at to die because of all of the old bad memories give out a false information which will be the doom for it?\

Why should it lie if its in hands of scum?

Hmmm...

Good question I did not think about that.

[BNL]

I mean I don't have any hard evidence that it's fake but it just sounds fake

Which part? The abilities or last sentence? Or both?

The abilities
The quote everyone has, I know

I have a REALLY bizarre role and "tracker with a few 1-shots" doesn't compare at all.

You are aware he's not full-claiming, yes?

What he did claim sounds fake

What motivation do scum have to fakeclaim, instead of claiming most of their role and snipping out the scummy parts of their role?

Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.

If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former. The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.

@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:

What do you disagree about this?

That you're scum

So anything that I say is wrong because you think I'm scum? Did you bother reading the rest of the post at all?

[BNL]

VOTE: BNL

Shos is being scummy as can be, but BNL is playing scummy and lining up lynches w/o considering the poss. that shos was framed by the mod.

I did consider the possibility:

Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.

If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former.

The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.

@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:

What do you disagree about this?

My Shos v Counsel thing is also independent of my Shos scumread.

[BNL]

Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lying

Also before the game starts
I'm double Hated apparently

So you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?

VOTE: SirCakez

This is just super nitpickey, to the point of unnecessarily so.

But this was my RVS vote, so...?

or to follow any voting restriction players decide.

Let's see if this is true

The Counsel must vote itself at once

This triggered the zero weight vote on The Counsel.

What makes you think that the Counsel vote is submitted publicly?

[BNL]

Over the night I've thought about it, and realised that Shos is the best lynch for today.

If he's scum, good. Otherwise, the Counsel lied to us, so we lynch them tomorrow. So {Shos, The Counsel} should be our lynchpool for today, and I'm leaning towards the former. The only way this can fail is if the Mod lied to the Counsel.

@Everyone not voting shos/The Counsel:

What do you disagree about this?

False Dilemna --> We dont have to lynch in those 2.

This isn't a false dilemma. I

proposed

lynching in Shos/The Counsel, and personally picked Shos; never said that they were the only lynch options.

[BNL]

Btw re: your guys discussion on occams razor
I bet the counsel answers no to my question. Occams razor applied here would simply be a scum messenger. That is so easy.

That's funny because this possibility never occurred to me until you mentioned it; only possibilities for me were you lying, Counsel lying and Mod lying.

[BNL]

Top two scumreads are Shos and Ircher

[BNL]

Don't exactly have a third scumread, but I'll just say that I believe my wagon is heavily pushed by scum.

Of the five people,

THREE

of them are lurkers whose only game related content is their vote on me (except Davsto, and even then, no other reads or even pushes). Ircher is a top scumread.

SirCakez is the only one I have mixed feelings on (getting townvibes and scumvibes): On one hand, he seems to be legitimately scumhunting and making pushes; on the other hand, some of his thought processes aren't smooth (no, not the "apparently" thing, I've gotten over that; there are other problems)

[BNL]

How is that funny?

Occam's razor means simplest explanation so requires the least thinking; but your suggestion of scum messenger did not come across me, which is definitely not simple in my opinion.

[BNL]

Also which five(?!) are against you? I only remember like 2,not including me

Are you even reading the game?

[BNL]

Top two scumreads are Shos and Ircher

I'm not surprised. Zero empathy coming from this slot.

Lack of empathy is scummy?

You need to reply to 629.

[BNL]

We saw shos changing the vote again and the vote is now on himself ...

@Shos No messenger is involved. The result is related to the voice of counsel.

Thanks for changing the vote cause its now proven that mod pre-planned framing "Shos" by lying to the voice of counsel whenever the real one who controls that vote change it or Shos is really involved in this.

Ok, why would shos move the vote onto themselvrs?

Why not? Wifom?

[BNL]

Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lying

Also before the game starts
I'm double Hated apparently

So you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?

VOTE: SirCakez

This is just super nitpickey, to the point of unnecessarily so.

But this was my RVS vote, so...?

RVS means random.
How is a vote with reasons given random?

Not really wanting to lynch BNL because he just strikes me as a kneejerk scumread, which usually winds up flipping town.

I could really go for some shos blood, though.

I remember playing with BNL a while ago and he was lynchbait-y, yeah.
The above post reallly sucks though.

UNVOTE:
My BNL read is shaky now
I would prefer lynching Shos or Xyzzy.

What made you change your read? I hadn't posted in between.

[BNL]

I'm a day vig.

Votes: cakez

Now why would I think farside had a role that could shoot?

That post is old, like, random-posting-stage old.
And here we go: everything is a lie, proven true again. If the players get in on this, how's town supposed to win, huh?

Then why would Farside plan her dayvig shot, as in 499? Definitely not an RVS-only thing.

[BNL]

again

where was this proven before in this game?

I don't recall saying it was limited to this game. Besides, wgeurts lies, that's what he does. He's the liar of MafiaScum. WGEURTS LIES LOL

Why would anyone lie about being a day vig in that manner?

Could I fathom? I'm not farside. Ask them -- oh wait, discussion about ongoing games is forbidden.
My personal idea would be some sort of mod lie (aka fake role) that got to farside, but not me.

But you and Farside are the same slot... Do you seriously think that the mod will give different information to you and your predecessor???

[BNL]

VOTE: shos
let's go

No opinion on the MM?

[BNL]

Wgeurts pretty explicitly states the roles can be (and probably are) lying

Also before the game starts
I'm double Hated apparently

So you think that the roles are lies, but you don't doubt the double Hated part of your role?

VOTE: SirCakez

This is just super nitpickey, to the point of unnecessarily so.

But this was my RVS vote, so...?

or to follow any voting restriction players decide.

Let's see if this is true

The Counsel must vote itself at once

This triggered the zero weight vote on The Counsel.

What makes you think that the Counsel vote is submitted publicly?

1) Didnt feel like an rvs vote
2) Anythings possible.

1) Ok, it's not a completely RVS vote, it's one whose reasoning is semi-serious but not 100% serious and very weak, hence fit for RVS
2) I guess I'll forgive you on that point; you weren't in the previous EIAL game to know that the controlled Counsel vote was submitted privately

[BNL]

I dodnt think farside was a dayvig to begin with lol.
D1 shit like that happens all the time.

Since flames wagon doesnt seem to be viable, and same withL&L, im joining the NL wagon. This is L-1.

VOTE: bnl.
This is not a counterwagon-ahoy vote, in case youd think that.

I'm assuming NL = BNL?

If this isn't a counterwagon vote, then what is it?

No opinion on the MM either?

[BNL]

Huge scumread on the MM.

MM is certainly not a town dayvig, otherwise he wouldn't have responded in that manner. The only way he could be town is if farside was lying, which I heavily doubt; that's a really far-fetched gambit for town (or even scum) to fakeclaim dayvig for just a single reaction.

On the other hand, MM scum makes a lot of sense; what I feel is that he's scum with only daykill ability, and he's trying to deny it but farside took a different approach with it. Farside's dayvig claim had issues too: she was blindly following all the neg util players to claim their role in their first post, but dayvig isn't a role that you want to claim in your first post. Trying to use this to cover up for your shots makes sense.

[BNL]

Actually, is MM Jester possible? After all, he's said to have been following the game (which I feel is an OOC true thing), so he would have seen Farside's claim. Furthermore, the last line of 689 is just too ridiculous.

[BNL]

@697: You wouldn't lie and not go along with it, would ya?

That's out of the point, the point is that the dayvig claim wasn't an RVS only thing.

@698: We're the same slot, not the same person. Farside was likely trying to scare scum, but I'm not playing to other people's gambits, even if I'm replacing into their slots. Also, since it's Everything Is A Lie, there might be shenanigans of the sort. I'm not putting anything out of wgeurts's reach.

Same slot gets same info. Period. There is nothing to argue about.

@699, @701: Tunnelling detected.

You were so blatantly scummy that I find it suspicious when people just ignore your posts. I mean, you claimed differently from your own slot.

@703: You seem to conclude I'm not town, just because I said I'm not a dayvig? You know that's opposite to what I said. Besides, if that gambit was farfetched even by scum standards, why are you slapping that on me?

Farside claimed otherwise. The gambit by neither town nor scum means it probably didn't happen, and you're lying. Convince me farside lied.

For your daykill-scum hypothesis: if that was the case, any semi-intelligent scum would have done the kill fast (as in RVS-fast) as to lower the chances of being identified.

Your shot is public

@704: I've been reading the game once, kind of as a pastime, because I was ready to replace on short notice for [our dearest / that damn] mod wgeurts, but not expecting or willing to enter the game biased. I wasn't playing on the sidelines and taking notes, much less keeping tracks on every claim.

So maybe you're not a Jester after all... so you're scum?

[BNL]

Whats with all thsetup specs,bnl? What sort of rolefishing is that lol
I never take dayvig claims seriously

And currently no real read on that slot, farside was reallinactive and i didnt read the post above me

Setup spec? Role ishing? What?

If Farsides claim isn't serious, why did she persist it?

[BNL]

VOTE: BNL

G'day.

VOTE: BNL

Okay, maybe you're scum.

[BNL]

Did MM do something I missed?

siriously?

yes
qq

So you admit you weren't reading the game?

[BNL]

There's like 2 days left to deadline?

Why the hurry to achieve a lynch?

[BNL]

oh

Why didn't you post post-hammer and only wait for a mod post (which was very likely a lock)?

[BNL]

Now that I've some breathing room...

VOTE: BNL

Just because.

Why couldn't you keep your mouth shut for a few hours?

I would still prefer shos

Likewise.

VOTE: shos

Notice how this sequence of events is very similar to L&L's recent hammer on me?

In retrospect, I think that 666 was fake and 664 was intended to be a real hammer on me, but when it failed it was painted as a reaction test.

[BNL]

VOTE: The MM

We have slightly more than one day left, can we swing a wagon here?

[BNL]

Now that I've some breathing room...

VOTE: BNL

Just because.

Why couldn't you keep your mouth shut for a few hours?

I would still prefer shos

Likewise.

VOTE: shos

Notice how this sequence of events is very similar to L&L's recent hammer on me?

In retrospect, I think that 666 was fake and 664 was intended to be a real hammer on me, but when it failed it was painted as a reaction test.

I never claimed it was a reaction test.

If you get another vote, I'll try again.

Looking at the context of the posts it was obvious that it was a reaction test. Not claiming that it was a RT doesn't change anything.

[BNL]

Now that I've some breathing room...

VOTE: BNL

Just because.

Why couldn't you keep your mouth shut for a few hours?

I would still prefer shos

Likewise.

VOTE: shos

Notice how this sequence of events is very similar to L&L's recent hammer on me?

In retrospect, I think that 666 was fake and 664 was intended to be a real hammer on me, but when it failed it was painted as a reaction test.

I never claimed it was a reaction test.

If you get another vote, I'll try again.

Looking at the context of the posts it was obvious that it was a reaction test. Not claiming that it was a RT doesn't change anything.

Get your panties out of that wad they're in. I clarified.

Sorry, posted this before looking at pedit.

[BNL]

VOTE: BNL

G'day.

VOTE: BNL

Okay, maybe you're scum.

Even if you're town this is bad play. Just assuming whoever votes you is scum is awful.

Not just that, see 757.

[BNL]

xyyz has no double vote ... or BNL is loved

there is no other explanation

I'm not loved.

I think it could be possible that the lynch threshold could be secretly larger today. In the previous game on the first day, the lynch threshold was one below stated

[BNL]

xyyz has no double vote ... or BNL is loved

there is no other explanation

What about fakehammering?

You could've checked this for yourself, couldn't you?

[BNL]

but again what incentive could scum possibly have to make such blatant, obvious lies? I feel like it's far more plausible that farside22 had some genuine reason to believe that her dayvig claim was accurate and that The MM has some genuine reason to believe that it's not than that farside22 was lying as scum and The MM decided to just not continue with that lie. scum had incentive to lie, yes, but no one is going to make a blatantly obvious lie regardless of their alignment.

"farside22 had some genuine reason to believe that her dayvig claim was accurate"

Are you drunk?

[BNL]

the source of the misinformation in this game is the moderator. why would any player have incentive to make an obvious, blatant lie? like, let's say farside22 received a role PM that said "you're a dayvig" and The MM received a role PM that said anything besides that—this would explain the discrepancy, but it's not a scum tell for either of them. if anything, I think scum-MM would have greater incentive to continue claiming to be a dayvig just to stand out less.

"let's say farside22 received a role PM that said "you're a dayvig" and The MM received a role PM that said anything besides that"

Why do you think this is even possible in the first place?

[BNL]

Now that I've some breathing room...

VOTE: BNL

Just because.

Why couldn't you keep your mouth shut for a few hours?

I would still prefer shos

Likewise.

VOTE: shos

Notice how this sequence of events is very similar to L&L's recent hammer on me?

In retrospect, I think that 666 was fake and 664 was intended to be a real hammer on me, but when it failed it was painted as a reaction test.

Oh 664?

Of course it was a fake hammer. The vote count wasn't that hard to track for anyone actually paying attention.

I was just having fun. If it yielded results, so much the better

Actually you are wrong.

“History is a set of lies agreed upon.”

― Napoléon Bonaparte

VOTECOUNT 1.6

BulletNLynchproof (5) [

L-3!

]:

Davsto, SirCakez, Vedith, KuroiXHF, Ircher

shos (4):

BulletNLynchproof, Rylai & Lina, Flames682, The Counsel, Leather and Lace

Yume (2):

xyzzy

Flames682 (1):

shos

SirCakez (1):

farside22

Not Voting (2):

Yume, The Counsel

With 14 Votes, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

: On hold.

Farside22 and Yume have requested replacement, the deadline is on hold for the time-being.

Five votes.

I wouldn't describe anything about this setup as obvious. I'm probably a double voter, but ruling out other possibilities would be a mistake here.

I'm not really a big fan of either of the wagons right now, but I guess I'd be okay with a BNL lynch, and obviously any lynch is better than no lynch, so... this is probably L-1? probably?

VOTE: BNL

I don't think anyone should hammer until we have replacements in since the deadline is extended until then.

7 votes - xyz's double vote was not known to be fake yet

VOTE: BNL

Just because.

And that's 8 - a hammer. You can check that I did not miss quoting any vote in between.

It turned out to not be a hammer because xyz's DV was fake (or some other voting shenanigans).

[BNL]

xyyz has no double vote ... or BNL is loved

there is no other explanation

I'm not loved.

I think it could be possible that the lynch threshold could be

secretly larger today

. In the previous game on the first day, the lynch threshold was one below stated

Newsflash: 14 votes === 8 to lynch.

The threshold could be a lie.

[BNL]

VOTE: BNL

Farside seriously claimed dayvig, his replacement said he's not one. I have no idea why noone has a problem with this. Might as well claim scum and laugh it out.

Not voting BNL

@mod all of the lies in the game are predetermined and chosen before the game start or you might make a new evil plan for lie-ing and confusing the shit out of everyone anytime you want?

and it will be lovely if you use your truth color for answering this!

Any lies related to roles are set in stone so that all players are able to somewhat anticipate them, I however may do random crap not affecting players roles for the sake of it.

Either Farside or The MM lied. This is today's lynch.

Yeah, okay

[BNL]

I'm quite surprised that R&L was the only one pushing for a claim.
L&L, Mal: Why no wait for claim?

I'm not claiming, ftr.

[BNL]

No MM, Malp may have been hypocritical, but you or your predecessor lied about your role. His scumminess (if at all) is nothing compared to yours.

I have a good reason not to claim despite being hammered.

[BNL]

To elaborate on that, at worst Malp lied about an opinion, while you lied about a fact.

[BNL]

I'll just say that it'll eventually become obvious why I'm not claiming.

[BNL]

Scum:
The MM
Leather and Lace
Davsto
xyzzy

Lean Scum:
Vedith
KuroiXHF
Shos

Null:
Ircher
SirCakez
malpascp

Town:
Rylai and Lina
Flames682

[BNL]

Let's start with the lurkers.

I feel like I'm lynched because Davsto, Kuroi, Vedith lurking allows them to be able to park their vote unsuspiciously, and I'm scum reading all of them. Davsto moreso than the others because I know Davsto's meta enough that him lurking and posting with content infrequently is a scumtell, and besides, he's obviously not reading the game.

[BNL]

Yume/mal slot excluded because they weren't voting me

[BNL]

The MM is obvscum from what I've already mentioned, as for L&L, just read the the series of posts from 664, and especially compare with 714, the "reaction test" was an obvious lie.

[BNL]

Shos I was scumreading due to the Counsel thing and at the start but its really weakening now, and with all my other scumreads I'd say this is most likely (if any) to be wrong.

[BNL]

The counsel has some information about xyyz slot.

Vote for revealing it or hiding it.

Reveal

[BNL]

Someone sent me a guilty on L&L...

Past games have most of these simple roles having results inverted, except for one "Insane Cop" who was actually sane. I think the best move is to have whoever sent me the results crumb to me whatever modifiers are attached to his role to make them lean if his results are real or inverted.

[BNL]

VOTE: The MM

This is still scum, not trusting my guilty on L&L.

[BNL]

Something unforeseen has come up!

You have (expired on 2016-10-16 09:52:49)!

“Test”

― Anonymous

VOTECOUNT 2.1

Ircher (1):

Flames682

Not Voting (14):

SirCakez, shos, Davsto, Leather and Lace, BulletNLynchproof, Rylai & Lina, malpascp, The MM, Vedith, Ircher, xyzzy, The Counsel, The Counsel

With 14 Votes, it takes 8 to Lynch.
Deadline

:

(expired on 2016-10-16 09:52:49)

Who did this?

Strangely, this hasn't been reflected in the OP or the latest VC...

[BNL]

blah

Scumclaim. Wants to PR-fish.

Are you people gonna jump me whenever I try to figure out anything?
First, BNL, now you, both damn near instantly vote me for talking my mind. Like, damn.

Note:

I will not respect anyone who just posts "scumclaim", "you're scum" and other tiny-messages-but-loads-of-horsecrap like that, because this comes from official self-absorbed idiotic strawmen. I think I've made my opinion of such messages clear. So many people have done that, scum may be hiding and provide

no case whatsoever

.

Thank you very much -- not.

But hey, keep waving your scumflags on me and you'll waste a day, much like many have done before you. *shrug*

You claimed Not Dayvig, your predecessor claimed Dayvig, how is that not scummy?

[BNL]

Ircher is also telling the truth about his claim so he's a terrible lynch.

How do you know? How sure are you on this?

[BNL]

@Ircher: I think it's pretty obvious that you're claiming Amnesiac Cop here. Did you send results about L&L to me or about xyzzy to the Counsel?

[BNL]

You guys sure post a lot
Final day of vacation, ill read up tomorrow.
Is the DL really 5 hours? Is that because BNL is already lynched?

Were you able to access MS before this after D2 started?

[BNL]

How are you sure that your lie detector result is not vise versa ... >.>

Because of things.

I'm still confused. Is your reason based on your role/setup spec or not?

[BNL]

"I am town"

I cannot do I am town/scum posts.
This is why I asked Rylai & Lina who was in their PT hoping they would answer before day end.

Why didn't you claim this when you first claimed lie detector?

[BNL]

Kuroi, Vedith, and I are masons.

Last night Vedith said he has a lie detector and instructed us to post that we weren't in any other PTs. However, I'm wondering why he lie detected Ircher's post if he said he would use it on us last night.

Is it true that you were initially unwilling to claim, and if so, why?

[BNL]

@Vedith Can your lie detector check posts in PTs or in the main thread only?

[BNL]

RE: L&L guilty

Interestingly, my results color was in #FF8001 (not #FF8000). I'm pretty sure this is a scum messenger trying to give a fake result. I knew this from the start, I just pretended I didn't know it at first in order to bait out the messenger into claiming. Which is also why I was so suspicious at Vedith saying that Ircher true claimed, though Ircher has clarified.

[BNL]

You guys sure post a lot
Final day of vacation, ill read up tomorrow.
Is the DL really 5 hours? Is that because BNL is already lynched?

Were you able to access MS before this after D2 started?

I didnt notice anything strange....

This question seems useless but it has a purpose, will reveal later.

[BNL]

RE: Lynch evasion

I'm one-shot lynchproof. Which is why I didn't claim yesterday: It's pointless, and claiming lynchproof will increase the want for town to lynch me, distracting from other players. It'll be much better if I could've deflected my lynch without claiming (though ofc I failed to do this)

[BNL]

@Vedith Can your lie detector check posts in PTs or in the main thread only?

I'd imagine its 1-shot and he already used the shot.

That wasn't the point of the question; I still want it answered.

[BNL]

@Vedith why didn't you use your lie detector to confirm shos claim about the second counsel vote or on counsel to confirm their calim about shos or their claims?

how that Ircher post was meaning anything to a mason - where as a mason pov neighborizers are likely scum or you had doubts about your masons? cause that makes no sense about the way you advertised your all town.

Wow actually, that's a good point I haven't noticed.

[BNL]

I think that going by setup spec, Vedith and Flames are both scum (traitors, specifically). I'd rather lynch Vedith than Flames.

As an aside, I'm expecting 7 scum/6 town total.

[BNL]

Why didn't you claim this when you first claimed lie detector?

I assumed it was standard.
Never had this role before.

What makes you think it's standard???

[BNL]

Yeah, I kinda agree that that wasnt a good post to choose.

Why not? The way to find scum is by the small things. Lying about this would have been small and an easy scum tell.
I stand by that scum give up small lies/slips rather than big ones 9/10.

So... you think that posts what would be "big lies" are always (or mostly) true?

[BNL]

How are you sure that your lie detector result is not vise versa ... >.>

Because of things.

I'm still confused. Is your reason based on your role/setup spec or not?

Vedith, I still want this answered.

[BNL]

Yeah BNL tf was up with the lynch failing?
If you're town not revealing that was anti town as hell

+1.
and if you knew you weren't going to die, did you know if lynching you would have ended the day?
because the lynch may have happened (or may not have, I don't know what the fuck yoghurt intended there), but it was damn near close to DL, so it might just have been DL cutoff?

Lynching me would've resulted in a day end with no lynch.

I checked the VC and it says -

BulletNLynchproof (9) [LYNCH!]: Davsto, Vedith, KuroiXHF, xyzzy, shos, Leather and Lace, Ircher, malpascp

so you *were* lynched, but with 9 votes.. so this may be xyzzy's doublevote not worth 2, or you were loved.?

Already said I'm not loved. Pretty sure it's xyzzy's doublevote being a lie here, as I was brought to 8 votes several times but not lynched.

[BNL]

You guys sure post a lot
Final day of vacation, ill read up tomorrow.
Is the DL really 5 hours? Is that because BNL is already lynched?

Were you able to access MS before this after D2 started?

France has nearly no open wifi, and even when there is you rarely are able to access without some login code. so only from the rented home, through phone. why?

The Counsel Manipulator vote was moved while you were away. If you weren't here, you aren't the manipulator.

[BNL]

“If I'm still alive whilst this votecount appears we're lynching Davsto.”

― Anonymous

VOTECOUNT 3.0

Not Voting (12):

shos, Davsto, Leather and Lace, BulletNLynchproof, Rylai & Lina, malpascp, The MM, Ircher, Flames682, xyzzy, The Counsel, The Counsel

With 12 Votes, it takes 6 to Lynch.
Deadline

: (expired on 2016-10-23 02:26:34)

WTF!?

???

Also, I looked at the thread before anything was posted. The VC not in the state MM quoted, it was the same as it is now.

[BNL]

Hey diddle diddle a cat and a fiddle
I've once again been told to speak with fucking riddle

A question for BNL, just a small tap and
Was your fake results PM titled "Nothing Happened..."?

No, my PM title was significantly different.

Check your PM color by pressing quote, only #FF8000 is guaranteed to be true. Anything else (even by very little) can be faked.

[BNL]

@VC Talker: Is your scumread on Davsto due to your role?

[BNL]

^Yeah, which is why I didn't say my PM title. Checked with the mod about that.

[BNL]

I think 1467-1468 indicate that MM was the one who was messing with some VCs (and deadlines) yesterday, and he accidentally pressed quote instead of PM. This was then covered up by pretending it was an actual VC, and gave a reaction.

Along with the dayvig thing,
VOTE: The MM

I'd also be happy with a Flames lynch due to the mason claim.

[BNL]

Everyone: My activity will be reduced until November 4th due to having to study for exams.

[BNL]

Davsto, how did you get town on Malpascp if we have this:

Hi, I am a miller.

More importantly, why did you target him in the first place?

[BNL]

Reveal Counsel info in Counsel PT

[BNL]

Davsto, how did you get town on Malpascp if we have this:

Hi, I am a miller.

Fuck, well, apparently my roles also don't work
Wgeurts must have faked a result to hide that - what a jerk!

Please answer my second question too: Why did you Cop a Miller?

[BNL]

Shos it's actually interesting how your results seem to contradict both on n1 and n2.

But I guess that can be interpreted that as me trying to defend davsto. Test it on n3 then to see if it's a lie then? And someone else can check if I'm actually ascetic if they want to

But my action can be confirmed - just ask Rylai and Lina
The bomb I planted on them - my accidental misdemeanour

Whether shos is the liar or his role - I don't know
We'll decide on that later - for now MM is the focus, yo

I was thinking maybe Shos was a Watcher and not a Tracker, but that doesn't explain the successful action on night 1.

Shos, can you confirm that you got "went nowhere" and not "No Result" on Night 1? Maybe you confused the two, check again.

[BNL]

MM, you said you didn't have a killing action, but desperado *is* a killing action

What makes you say your desperado is fake?

[BNL]

UNVOTE:

I never voted Vedith.

[BNL]

^@Mod

was that an error?

[BNL]

I agree that MM's flip is probably fake.

Based on his claim (

fake

desperado, can only kill self), I'm theorising that MM will kill himself no matter who he shoots, "confirming" his victim as town, similar to Prolapsed Brain's role here (actually not very similar, but these are really based on the same concept).

But I believe MM didn't know how to use his role, so his target choice tells me nothing about his buddy

[BNL]

Not by choice! I didn't know!
Wgeurts, he did fool me - I'm not your foe.

Unless I'm being fooled here.
Cakez is saying that he revived me but it didn't seem like I had to be revived, I could have stayed dead and had impact on the game from the graveyard or come back to life.

What?

[BNL]

ya I'm going to revive him tonight

MM was not town!

That role pm is so fake! >.>

Nah he's town, it's cool!

No

he is not

and its definitely not cool!

No

he is not

and its definitely not cool!

Oh. Then lets keep him dead.
Who we lynching?

Vedith, just. What.

[BNL]

So I can do my lie detect tonight. :<

But it's one-shot, isn't it?

[BNL]

VOTE: Ircher
If anyone dies from Dav tonight we lynch him tomorrow.

But you said Ircher's claim was true...

[BNL]

Did you rez as a jester? Lmao

After reading Vedith carefully it seems that this is much more plausible now.

[BNL]

@SC what is exactly your revive ability?

This reminds me:
SC is your rez ability day or night?

[BNL]

But it's one-shot, isn't it?

No... I actually said that it wasn't before you fuckers lynched me.

Sorry, I got confused which of your roles were 1-shot.

[BNL]

Cakez: Is your rez ability used during the Day or Night?

[BNL]

he's not confirmed scum, he's just scummy as hell

This I agree to. Vedith's "confirmed" stuff I don't

Vedith, did you manage to visit the dead thread, and if so, did Kuroi say anything?

[BNL]

Oops please ignore phantom quote

[BNL]

Reveal that stuff in the counsel pt yo

Wait a minute

Davsto's PR is fake

[BNL]

@R&L: You can receive Amnesiac Cop results when roleblocked. Did some *other* action of yours succeed? Only that will confirm you not being roleblocked.

[BNL]

^That was to R&L, not you.

Are you saying that I'm rolefishing? I disagree, answering that does not reveal much information, and besides, R&L willingly claimed themselves Dav's roleblock wasn't successful anyway.

[BNL]

Vedith, did you manage to visit the dead thread, and if so, did Kuroi say anything?

Also, please answer this.

[BNL]

Who HASNT claimed a confirmable night action?

Davsto confirmed his night action by the nature; Rylai & the Counsel confirmed my role, Vedith is obv!jester rn, Flames is prob. town in the event of jester!Vedith, SirCakez is pretty much confirmed reviver.

That leaves shos, BNL, Rylai & Lina, Mal, Lilith, and xyzzy.

BNL was 1-Shot lynchproof and xyzzy was "confirmed IC".
Malp was "confirmed by desparado shot".

Let's lynch within that pool of 6 people.

VOTE: Lilith

I don't get your logic here? You're trying to lynch people who don't have confirmable roles?

[BNL]

I lost everything I was about to say.
I'm not going back and putting my notes again tonight.
Players I'd shoot.
Ircher
Shos
Cakez
KuroiXHF
Explaination will have to wait.

I think MM's scumbuddy is in this list. Less likely to be malpascp as I doubt he knew how to use his role.

[BNL]

VOTE: Davsto

I think Flames is scum, but Davsto is scum too. His post restriction is fake (but claimed to be mod color), he would've paid enough attention to not Cop Mal, and his roleblock is fake. I'm not scumreading him more than Flames, but he's more of a threat as he's currently able to kill two people at once, which may well be the scum's main method of killing. Indeed, I think Mal and R&L are very plausible as NK targets.

[BNL]

OK so half my exams are gone and there's a big break before the next half, so I'll hopefully be able to be more active.

Reading up.

[BNL]

VOTE: Davsto

I think Flames is scum, but Davsto is scum too. His post restriction is fake (but claimed to be mod color), he would've paid enough attention to not Cop Mal, and his roleblock is fake. I'm not scumreading him more than Flames, but he's more of a threat as he's currently able to kill two people at once, which may well be the scum's main method of killing. Indeed, I think Mal and R&L are very plausible as NK targets.

My post restriction is fake? How do you know?
I mean, the PM told me it was real, so
And you think I'd fake my one from the last game, really though?

1515
Though I note that it's been settled in 1847

I paid enough attention, that's what you say?
Did you see my activity on the first day?

Yes I noted your really low activity D1, I just don't believe you'd actually forget that as a town Cop. You were at least skimming, weren't you?

And you think, me as scum, would claim the explosive?
To my survival as scum that would be so corrosive
I can now never, ever set off the bomb
Without being instalynched, and I'm not

that

dumb

That gets you towncred, and I'd say that a 2-for-1 trade is a good trade off.

Actually, now that I'm thinking clearer, those two points don't go together.

[BNL]

and if I'm at it already, there's also the coincidence that davsto said he targetted R&L only AFTER they said the got the bomb. Hence your action is not confirmed, meaning you ARE lying.

No? Davsto claimed the bomb action before R&L did.

[BNL]

I have no idea why Shos is not considering his role being a lie at all.

Davsto has a confirmable action, and yet Shos is insisting his way into Davsto lying? And he also believes Flames was lying about his role saying him being ascetic while it bring virtually no benefit for scum!Flames to

fake

claim in order to 1v1 Shos?

[BNL]

Also, the strongest case for flames is the result from your action
And either you are your role are lying, so with me that won't gain traction
Because I know what I did, so to your results I have no attraction

No, it's him being a mason.

[BNL]

Who HASNT claimed a confirmable night action?

Davsto confirmed his night action by the nature; Rylai & the Counsel confirmed my role, Vedith is obv!jester rn, Flames is prob. town in the event of jester!Vedith, SirCakez is pretty much confirmed reviver.

That leaves shos, BNL, Rylai & Lina, Mal, Lilith, and xyzzy.

BNL was 1-Shot lynchproof and xyzzy was "confirmed IC".
Malp was "confirmed by desparado shot".

Let's lynch within that pool of 6 people.

VOTE: Lilith

I

think

the point you are trying to pursue here is that someone who has yet to claim a night action must be scum because nightkill???

1. There's no restriction in the rules on how many actions you can take per night (factional vs. individual).
2. Most of the scum in wgeurts' games don't even have a NK and have other actions instead.

Your point is invalid.

No, we shouldn't be lynching people who are confirmed PRs. We should be using the assets of the PRs to identify scum.

Yes, but the way I see it, what's not what you're doing.

[BNL]

Gawd, this day is setting back the broken status quo of death this game so far.

Vedith has been shot, he was the Good-For-Nothing, aligned with

Himself

!

Spoiler:

Greetings, Vedith, and welcome to

Everything Is a Lie Mafia 4

!

Good-For-Nothing

Jester 1-Shot Paranoid-Gun-Owner, 1-Shot Hijacker & Super-Saint

Aligned with Yourself

“Some are born mad, some achieve madness, and some have madness thrust upon 'em.”
― Emilie Autumn

Abilities:

1-Shot Paranoid-Gun-Owner -

The first player to target you during a night dies, their action failing accordingly.

1-Shot Hijacker -

Once during the game, you move three votes by messaging me who's vote you want to move and to whom during a day. You may not place anyone at L-2. Their votes will be stuck to their target for the rest of the day.

Super-Saint -

If you are lynched, the player who placed the final vote on your wagon is killed.

Win-Conditions:

You win if you are lynched.

ty Dayvig.

[BNL]

yeah I'm not gonna rez anymore
the flip didn't surprise me

VOTE: flames

Is your role guarenteed in orange ink to revive at least one person as town? If so, your rez is probably a good idea.

[BNL]

now

the wagon was "MM, Cakes, Rylai & Lina and Flames and Vedith" and he saw 3 Town in this

so there are eaither 2 scum in {Flames , Cakez , MM}
or 3 scum in the said group

assuming mod lie is on the word "Town" not the number.

Vedith's revival basically confirms him as town on the first day. (I really doubt the Mod will allow the revival of scum into a different faction)

Wrt this, I believe the quote above.

[BNL]

VOTE: shos

I think Davsto's points against shos were really good. Dave may be town after all.

[BNL]

Prodge, waiting for everyone to get back onto the site.

@R&L you're currently not voting Shos, or anyone for that matter.

[BNL]

What kind of shitty logic is that? If I were to flip scum would that suddenly clear you as town somehow?

What?

You're just doing the same thing as you did in day 1 basically saying "sort me tomorrow." No. You die today.

What?

I'm not getting your logic in your entire post. Ircher is voted by only you, major wagons are you and Shos, not Ircher. Ircher was deflecting people from Shos onto you, not from himself onto you.

[BNL]

How has shos not got much traction
Despite the contradictiond

s

with his action?

Because this is EIAL?
the case on me is "he scumreads davsto".

Does no-one see the problem but me?
I thought it would be plain to see

Shos says that my vote is wrong - why?
I mean it's EIAL, his role may be a lie!
I shouldn't vote on his contradiction
When his result may just be fiction

And yet on Flames he keeps his vote
When it's based on this same action, I note.

Yeah, I noted it too. EIAL means his role is possibly fake, and confirmed by Dave's action. AFAIK his reason for believing it's real is because of his successful result on Flames, which is really weak, because 1. Correlation =/=> causation: just because you have an accurate result doesn't mean all your results are accurate; getting an accurate town result on yourself for instance doesn't mean you are sane, it could mean you're naive (terrible example but best I can come up with) 2. Dave's action outweighs the "accurate" N1 result.

Oh and Shos, have you been reading, the case on you isn't just "he scumreads Davsto". It's a ton of other stuff, especially revolving around your role.

[BNL]

Ircher, who do you think are the remaining scum?

I don't like this push, it feels like too easy a question to ask and also too general.

[BNL]

I'm find with a Flames lynch, but I'd still prefer a Shos lynch, so I'll stay here for now. I won't be here for the last ~6 hours before deadline; at that point I'll switch if necessary.

[BNL]

Flames please.

If he flips town, by all means, you may lynch me tomorrow.

I'm not really a fan of this post. I feel like these sorts of "if I'm wrong, lynch me tomorrow" statements are frequently scummy.

Uh, what happened to your inno on Ircher?

[BNL]

@Mod can we have a prod on malpascp and The Counsel?

[BNL]

Lol I don't know if the Counsel can be prodded; it was a joke. But maybe they can; once wgeurts prods Malp we will know.

[BNL]

Yeah I chose to continue as well. I also agree you should get a backup mod if modding this game will really affect you irl. And I'm glad you came back <3

You should also lock this thread in case people compromise their slots here, and communicate via PM.