Open 688: Diffusion of Power (Game Over)

[Titus]

Shit man arona slot is obvtown

Good because I lack that gene. :-p

[Titus]

Did you join because of me joining, Titus?

I had no clue, but I like playing with you. I saw the birthday boy needed subs.

I saw there was no death n1. Did an n1 doc claim?

Can we lynch Sesq?

[Titus]

Why is Hellfire a safer bet? I just eyeballed the VCs.

UNVOTE: CS

[Titus]

We should consider cop/doc massclaiming but omitting the night.

Since we have 4 docs outed minimum, if all are honest, we can use this to overload either cop or doctor claims. This can only be done before a scum flip though.

[Titus]

We should consider cop/doc massclaiming but omitting the night.

Since we have 4 docs outed minimum, if all are honest, we can use this to overload either cop or doctor claims. This can only be done before a scum flip though.

Hello?

[Titus]

Mafia are told pregame exactly how many Cops and Docs exist in the setup, but not who and what nights they are.

This makes me believe even more that Scum claimed doc today.

I think Titus is right. Scum already know how many cops to docs there are anyway.

Yeah, muffin's objection makes no sense.

If scum fake claimed doc, then there's still loads of docs.
If scum did not fake doc, then at most there's 1 or 2.

The last players to claim cop/doc should be the ones who were protected, obvious reasons.

[Titus]

We should consider cop/doc massclaiming but omitting the night.

Since we have 4 docs outed minimum, if all are honest, we can use this to overload either cop or doctor claims. This can only be done before a scum flip though.

Hello?

5 outed docs if you missed that
but that means cop claims can just be killed like splat
after all, docs are dead or invalid mostly
so no, mass claim rn isn't toasty

This supposes all doc claims are honest.

If that's the case then scum can kill at will anyway.

[Titus]

Sesq say hi?

Sheep, I want to talk about your vote position conclusion. Color me intrigued.

[Titus]

actually yea if docs are honest scum can either way
so I'm fine, vedith volunteered to go first and popcorn today

We should popcorn away from the healed. They have a high likelihood of being town.

[Titus]

So can you give the precise list of claims Mutton?

[Titus]

Before massclaiming I'd like to take a poll of something.
How many n1 doc claims do you believe are fake?

Using mass claim to determine. My gut says zero oddly enough.

That being said people can answer when they come on.

[Titus]

My issue is if one of the n1 docs is fake then scum already know which set of PRs they are going to duck with nimbereise

Then they have to tell us.

[Titus]

So can you give the precise list of claims Mutton?

sesq claimed night four doc for no real reason
sheep, alban, sparkles claimed night one doc this season
obviously, comm is dead doc
and gamma, I think 1-2 is scum brah

I see. Hmph. I see.

You think sesq and gamma partners to be clear?

[Titus]

Why is Hellfire a safer bet? I just eyeballed the VCs.

Due to his position on the wagon and expressed reasoning for the move.

So correct me if wrong here

Sparkles protected NJAC
You protected Gamma
Alban protected Creature

What reasons did these 3 get protected?

I provided my reasons twice - feel free to ISO me.
Alban described his reason here - viewtopic.php?p=9282797#p9282797
Sparkles ducked the question and Mutton is just now remembering that he was going to bug him about that to avoid hypocrisy

If we Lynch in any group it should be from Sparkles, you or Alban, right?

I disagree, but that is at least more logical than lynching within the protects.

if you idiots refuse to read any of hellfires other games, keep ignoring me and mislynch him that's on you
but after that, sheep better fucking be roped too

Which of his other games are convincing you this is his town meta exactly?

Your answer here that I bolded is what I want elaboration on.

Tbh, I like your reply pretty much saying I hear you but I have no idea.

[Titus]

Your answer here that I bolded is what I want elaboration on.

Tbh, I like your reply pretty much saying I hear you but I have no idea.

Is there part of my case you don't understand/see?
If it's the 'entire thing' is what you're looking for an explanation of wagon position scumhunting?
Narrow it down in any way?

Yes, I want you to explain your wagoning positioning theory and why it says Hellfire scum.

[Titus]

well shit nevermind. I got confuzzled

We're claiming doc or cop, that's it.

[Titus]

mmk I guess I roll with it

NotRealPaul, are you new to mafia?

[Titus]

Can you or Vedith change your avatar Gamma? It confuses me when you both have the same avatar?

[Titus]

Yet, following up on Vedith's post, if scum disagree with the plan and disbelieve the doc claims, then a massclaim ferrets out there are liars in the doctors trying to obscure who is conftown or catches scum trying to shade the 3 doc scenario.

[Titus]

Sheep, I will engage your thoughts later but that's what I wanted.

[Titus]

VOTE: Sesq

Thought I was doing this.

[Titus]

Because I am not a fan of him randomly claiming, not being here, and being the n1 counter

[Titus]

n1? you mean d1?

Yes.

[Titus]

So we figure out where the scum are by looking at which pool (cop or doc) has extra claims?

Exactly. We are guaranteed to know at least one scum in a particular set exists.

There are 13 players. Only 12 slots.

[Titus]

If we massclaim I suggest we not ever have the doc claim which night they are to wifom the scum

Of course, that was explicit in my proposal. Neither cops nor docs night claim.

[Titus]

I still dont buy it for the following reason:

Everyones' roles are laid bare open to be NK'd. It doesn't matter who's to perform which night. It's immaterial coz people will roleclaim once they have done their doc-ing or cop-ing for that night. Anyone who hasn't is the intended target for scum. This is exactly why I didn't wanna claim on D2. When the 1st doc claimed, I had asked them the reason why they did, but pat came the 2nd claim! And then I wanted to claim too coz I was not convinced about their claims.
Now it's easy to guess what the scum will do with us. They will keep us alive. The town will never know whether we are scums or townies until the rest of you lynch us which is exactly what a scum would want. Even if one of us is a scum, it works best to their advantage. If we hadn't claimed, scum would waste their NK on someone who has become a VT in effect, and that would be beneficial to the town.

So walk me through what happens when you divide the players in two heaps. I can see where this is going, but I still wanna hear you out. I think your strategy will flop, but walk me through it. There's of course the possibility that scum will get to know our strategy but that's a risk I am willing to take. I have not discussed everything I have on my mind. Guess everyone can make that decision for themselves, what to share and what to hide.

This is a literal rehash.

With 3 doctor claims, nks pretty much are laid bare anyway.
This way, we get something out of it.

[Titus]

I can now vote Hellfire after this exchange. Still prefer Lady Sesq.

[Titus]

Creature
Sesq - n3 doc
Hellfire Missile - cop
Agent Sparkles - n1 doc
NJAC
Gamma Emerald
Titus
Cooperative Sheep - n1 doc
alban - n1 doc
Vedith - cop
NotTheRealPaul
MuttonChopMagic - cop

CommKnight - dead doc

I'll claim before Titus and the other saves but no sooner
NTRP first

Is that a typo? Mutton said Sesq claimed n4 doc? You have him as n3 doc?

[Titus]

im night three doctor

counterclaim me

i fucking dare you

Ok mutton had a typo

[Titus]

Really...

[Titus]

Exactly.

Creature's posting elsewhere. He's due to claim.

[Titus]

Oh.

Just cop/doc

We're establishing how many scum have to be in a particular pool.

[Titus]

Drunk doc

[Titus]

Can gamma go now

[Titus]

Yeah he should be the last

[Titus]

Yes he is and we have a 6 v 6, so whenever Creature claims we have a solid pool setup which I will explain.

For now,

VOTE: Hellfire Missle

[Titus]

Indeed. So now every cop scum shoot takes them closer to outing one of their own, but if they don't shoot cops, they'll eventually fet PoEd. Plus, it is possible all doctors are telling the truth.

In fact one of the n1 doctor claimers must be town.

[Titus]

Yes he is and we have a 6 v 6, so whenever Creature claims we have a solid pool setup which I will explain.

For now,

VOTE: Hellfire Missle

What changed your mind from Sesq?

CS makes a decent point. Both Sesq and Hellfire look bad from votes, I was alone on Sesq, and the typo thing was :/. Basically an n4 claim otb is worse than n3. Still bad though.

[Titus]

actually I'm not cop I was hoping scum would fake but w/e, Im doc
I tried to make it so I could claim last but yall are cocks

Yuck...

You knew the point of the exercise was to narrow down which pool had to have scum but you totally wrecked it and tried to change things.

This is very anti-town at best.

Now, one of the doc claimers must be scum.

[Titus]

In fact, momentum on Hellfire and now you suddenly change your claim, making optimal play to lynch within the doc claims.

Why shouldn't we lynch you on the basis you are Hellfire's partner?

[Titus]

VOTE: Mutton

Docs became optimal play, as there is a gauaranteed scum in there now.

Mutton today. Sesq and Hellfire later

[Titus]

VOTE: mutton

I don't really give a shit, forgot how lally this site is so it's inevitable. I'm gonna be lynched.
you guys WILL lynch in agent and sheep tomorrow, and if you hit town the other goes after. cinch.

No. They are my biggest TRs. Lying and being anti-town isn't encouraging me to look elsewhere. Nor is trying to dictate me to lynch elsewhere. I am voting you or Sesq today.

[Titus]

also, I don't think this is town!Titus because town!Titus does not act like this.
hellfire and creature are town and should never be lynched
sesq, eh, mightve been going for a derp clear
still possibly town i fear

Ok, are you claiming alt here? I don't recall a game with you.

Second, I propose this very plan when I am town. I didn't when I was scum. Furthermore, the mod forgot to tell us or I failed to notice how many doc/cop claims existed.

[Titus]

VOTE: mutton

I don't really give a shit, forgot how lally this site is so it's inevitable. I'm gonna be lynched.
you guys WILL lynch in agent and sheep tomorrow, and if you hit town the other goes after. cinch.

No. They are my biggest TRs. Lying and being anti-town isn't encouraging me to look elsewhere. Nor is trying to dictate me to lynch elsewhere. I am voting you or Sesq today.

and you're probably scum so i don't care
you do gambits all the time including the ones that are pretty wholly awful like slayers, vedith is the type of bitch (ily) who might subscribe to lal but you aren't one as town to go there

Slayers is good in rare instances like if you have loved modifier. I don't lie, but the last time I ran slayers my personal reads were off but the rest of town laser focused on Dunn because his case on me was bad.

[Titus]

Like I don't think town just refuses to fight their lynch if they really believe that they're pushing obvscum, but realize that what you're doing is extremely anti-wincon if you really are town

This. So much this.

[Titus]

also, I don't think this is town!Titus because town!Titus does not act like this.
hellfire and creature are town and should never be lynched
sesq, eh, mightve been going for a derp clear
still possibly town i fear

Ok, are you claiming alt here? I don't recall a game with you.

Second, I propose this very plan when I am town. I didn't when I was scum. Furthermore, the mod forgot to tell us or I failed to notice how many doc/cop claims existed.

Mutton? Are you going to answer this or the other meta question or are you just going to lie and expect me to let it go?

[Titus]

Gambits aren't lies at all, well most aren't. Lying to be in control when your reads are backwards isn't protown at all. If I can't trust you to get through a basic massclaim without an agenda, what can I trust you for?

Your agenda seems to be do whatever it takes to lynch town, woah is me. That behavior needs to be lynched out of this site in favor of respectable, logical play. We do that, town win rates skyrocket.

When things turn into who is jockeying for control, most of the time the dumb opinions win because they have scum backing.

PSA don't dress up lying as a gambit.

[Titus]

I don't think we should force Mutton to out. People alt for a reason. That being said, alting means he should not rely on meta.

[Titus]

A skilled player has gambits in their arsenal and knows when to use them. I don't say never but a gambit that doesn't stop others from getting reads is a good thing.

[Titus]

You're not responding to my fundamental concern and instead trying to lecture me with a faulty definition. A gambit cannot be the definition you say because a gambit would be every single post.

I have played on this site for 3+ years. I have probably done every gambit there is.

But my concern is this.

If you are willing to lie to try and force a sheep or Sparkles lynch, why should I trust you?

[Titus]

As much as I scumread Sparkles, yeah I agree that this is optimal.
VOTE: MuttonChopMagic

Gamma scum

Yeah, quite likely.

[Titus]

A skilled player has gambits in their arsenal and knows when to use them. I don't say never but a gambit that doesn't stop others from getting reads is a good thing.

It didn't stop you from getting reads. You have a pool of 7 docs and a pool of 6 cops. Enjoy.
I claimed within a short period of the last claim coming in. You missed minutes of not being able to get reads. Oh boy.
There was a high reward if claims worked out better.
That didn't happen so now we have this pitter patter.

There was a huge risk and zero reward to this move. If you had let the assumption go on, we could see who thought it was faulty and gotten better reads. It would tell us a lot about Hellfire and reads within the cop pool.

I started analysis that way and now I have to sort whether you are scum or a townie desperate for control that he's willing to gamethrow.

[Titus]

VOTE: mutton

I don't really give a shit, forgot how lally this site is so it's inevitable. I'm gonna be lynched.
you guys WILL lynch in agent and sheep tomorrow, and if you hit town the other goes after. cinch.

No. They are my biggest TRs. Lying and being anti-town isn't encouraging me to look elsewhere. Nor is trying to dictate me to lynch elsewhere. I am voting you or Sesq today.

and you're probably scum so i don't care
you do gambits all the time including the ones that are pretty wholly awful like slayers, vedith is the type of bitch (ily) who might subscribe to lal but you aren't one as town to go there

Slayers is good in rare instances like if you have loved modifier. I don't lie, but the last time I ran slayers my personal reads were off but the rest of town laser focused on Dunn because his case on me was bad.

Are you sure you mean slayer's? I think you mean Fong's.

Slayer's is the gambit where you go melodramatic/over the top to get scum to vote/case you.

[Titus]

You're not responding to my fundamental concern and instead trying to lecture me with a faulty definition. A gambit cannot be the definition you say because a gambit would be every single post.

I have played on this site for 3+ years. I have probably done every gambit there is.

But my concern is this.

If you are willing to lie to try and force a sheep or Sparkles lynch, why should I trust you?

That was quoting the first line from the wiki
and your concern is icky

when did my lieing do anything to force a sheep or sparkles lynch? confused as a bat
I never said I had a cop guilty or anything of the like because I'm nowhere near the level of sure to do that
I pushed sheep and sparkles because I scum read both
and 6 docs being all 6 outed roles is not likely, not even close
But lying never had anything to do with me lynching them?
What do you mean by that my friend

Your play has been an attempt to.

If you felt your lie was so righteous, why self vote? Why would you expect us to suddenly follow your reads when you feel that lying to us is better than honest discussion? I trust people with clear motivations. Yours aren't.

Talk to me about Sesq.

[Titus]

As much as I scumread Sparkles, yeah I agree that this is optimal.
VOTE: MuttonChopMagic

Gamma scum

Yeah, quite likely.

Haven't seen you unvote Mutton.

Because I am not done sorting him.

[Titus]

VOTE: Sesq

I like your honesty now. I gtg.

[Titus]

1. I'll also add that it doesn't take much effort to look at and see a breadcrumb from Mutton for his coming claim switch *prior* to all the claims being finished. So...that limits the pool potentially a bit more.

I don't look for crumbs in a one and done setup. Why should I?

[Titus]

@CS, What is your read on Sesq?

On Mutton?

[Titus]

Yeah, and mutton admitted his play was a mistake and detracted from finding scum. We all agree. It was that humanity that made him townier. His actions are still bad but I am perfectly inclined to go vote for Sesq who basically wet noodled.

[Titus]

Hey can we lynch Sesq now? She's not doing anything this game.

Then tomorrow maybe Hellfire.

[Titus]

i'm not having too much fun either tbh

i'm just confused with random setup stuff and dont really have any solid reads except for mutton and AS, vaguely

and maybe titus (not sure)

Ok, we're lynching in the doctor claims because 1 scum must be there.

[Titus]

Yeah, and mutton admitted his play was a mistake and detracted from finding scum. We all agree. It was that humanity that made him townier. His actions are still bad but I am perfectly inclined to go vote for Sesq who basically wet noodled.

I am not debating that it was good/bad play.
I am debating why you called it scummy ad voted him - can you explain?

@Titus - if you're intentionally ducking this question can you explain why.
Otherwise I'll have to keep re-quoting it, and that will get annoying for everyone.

Vedith did that.

Lying about his role was scummy. He apologized for fucking things up. I move on. If Mutton hadn't, I would probably still be voting him.

[Titus]

i thought it was in cop?

idk, what's more helpful, lynching maybescum or an unhelpful town

This needs rope.

Mutton lied. He changed his claim to doc.

[Titus]

no like i remember someone saying we should lynch in cop!pool

Are you even pretending to read at this point?

[Titus]

Vedith did that.

So your answer is exactly what Vedith said more or less?
What about my comments rebutting his answer - Vedith has washed over them pretty strongly, do you actually agree with him that there are multiple scum benefits to the fake claim, or do you agree with me that there are very limited and specific ones?

Semantic pointless argument.

Scum benefit, scum motive = anti-town needs sorting with votes

[Titus]

@Hellfire - Yuck

[Titus]

Look, I don't care who said it. I care about your reads.

[Titus]

Nah, the game is solving itself. Sesq needs to die.

Second, because you aren't on our wavelength doesn't mean you should call us morons but seek to understand.

[Titus]

What did you believe specifically?

It's in my ISO.

I believed Mutton might have been covering for Hellfire on first pass.

Your belief =/= reality. No one's does.

*shrug*

[Titus]

What did you believe specifically?

It's in my ISO.

I believed Mutton might have been covering for Hellfire on first pass.

Your belief =/= reality. No one's does.

*shrug*

If you only thought it was scummy as a defense for Hellfire why switch votes, wouldn't that belief require Hellfire to be scum, and Hellfire has the benefit of being independently scummy moreso than Mutton?

Doc lynch is 100% optimal today because their must be scum in the doctor claimers. There's no guarantee of scum in cop claimers.

[Titus]

Creature cop
Sesq n3 doc
Hellfire Missile cop
Agent Sparkles n1 doc
NJAC cop
Gamma Emerald cop
Titus doc
Cooperative Sheep n1 doc
alban n1 doc
Vedith cop
NotTheRealPaul cop
MuttonChopMagic cop, changed to doc
CommKnight dead doc

7 docs, 6 cops

Max 6 of each in setup

[Titus]

Are people willing to consider a Gamma wagon? If we're sniping from doctor claims, I want him dead tomorrow.

VOTE: MuttonChop if this is still possible. Not lynching docs outside of this and Sesq.

Just Sesq man come on.

[Titus]

I understand the broad stroke Doc lynch choice. I'm working on your specific mental state when voting Mutton.

So a roughly honest translation of your thoughts would be the following; 'The only reason scum Mutton would move is to protect scum Hellfire - but since statistically scum are more likely to be in Docs I need to pressure Mutton, not Hellfire, and I'd like to make him explain his reasoning.'

Yes.

[Titus]

I take quibble with the word only but yes.

[Titus]

Resistance to the wagon implies Scum.

It does. I have minor concerns but I want to sit on them for 48 hours.

[Titus]

We have 3 people voting in the cops when we have confirmed Scum in docs...
I suggest you 3 think about that for a second.

That's yuck.

[Titus]

We have 3 people voting in the cops when we have confirmed Scum in docs...
I suggest you 3 think about that for a second.

That's yuck.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the confirmed scum in cops?

No docs. Mutton changed his claim.

[Titus]

We have 3 people voting in the cops when we have confirmed Scum in docs...
I suggest you 3 think about that for a second.

That's yuck.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the confirmed scum in cops?

No docs. Mutton changed his claim.

Did he do it in a believable way?

His apology felt sincere, and he is in the lynchpool...

[Titus]

We have 3 people voting in the cops when we have confirmed Scum in docs...
I suggest you 3 think about that for a second.

That's yuck.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the confirmed scum in cops?

No docs. Mutton changed his claim.

Did he do it in a believable way?

His apology felt sincere, and he is in the lynchpool...

Okay, well without looking at it I'm gonna call it NAI unless someone can make a good case for scum motivation for it.

Vedith did. That's why it's possible for Mutton to be scum. Sometimes you gotta look at emotions though.

[Titus]

there's nothing to talk about
two of sesq agent navy will flip red it's not worth it to pout

You mean NJAC?

[Titus]

Hi.
I dunno, can you scumread me jjh?

[Titus]

Alban might be scum but sesq is also scum.

[Titus]

If you have a scum you feel you won't get lynched, look at whom they call scummy but yet aren't voting.

[Titus]

Alban isn't voting sesq but he wanted credit no?

[Titus]

Hi town jjh. How are you?

[Titus]

I'm pretty good. I must say you look pretty towny yourself. You?

Tired lols. Missing my friend on the sesq wagon, but super glad he's here.

[Titus]

Guaranteed scum in doc claimers, so I'm not voting you today.

Bad news for you, Hellfire looks like scum and we're lynching Sesq.

[Titus]

I'm completely caught up now.

Townreads: Mutton, Titus, Gamma, Vedith
Townleans: Sparkles
Nulls: NotTheRealPaul
Scumleans: Alban, Hellfire/Math, NJAC
Scumreads: Sheep/Navy, Sesq

Explain to me how you aren't bussing Sesq for cred.

You aren't voting Sesq.

[Titus]

Correct I want to read up before Day ends. This way I can get reactions from people and use that to help form reads. Why are you so anxious to end the day? People know who they want to lynch let me read and poke. Is there a reason you don't want me to?

I haven't even been in the game since the start and even I'm sick to death of today.
There's more players not trying than there are trying. So you can understand why we want a lynch to occur.

I'm not even saying that everyone has to just vote and lynch Sesq, but people are failing to give reason to by Sesq isn't scum.
If people strongly believed otherwise, they should be trying to convince us, not just parking their vote else where and pissing off.

This. Bahhh.

I think jjh Vedith and I have mindmelded. We shall now be referred to as the Logical Fantasy Group.

[Titus]

What concerns are you acting on here? Me and Titus TR each other. Are you worried we'll powertown and find the scum?

No I am concerned it will be Thing Mafia all over again. I don't trust you. So I know Titus builds blocks so I am trying to help Titus build one that makes sense. I only have a small amount of time each day for Mafia last thing I want is a game that goes down the crapper because Titus makes a bad town block.

But you've been implying you don't trust me?

[Titus]

Sesq is probably town. Not much resistance on her wagon.

How do people feel about the idea of no lynching today?

This is scum.

Agreed.

[Titus]

Prods should happen soon.

[Titus]

Time for a survey

Do you like mutton chop?
On a scale from one to one hundred, how cute are you?
Can you dance?
The pain threshold of most humans, including myself, is thirteen. Can you top it?
One of the lesser known facts about ants is that they can detect a fire. Do you believe this?
Right now, I obsess over Paddy, who I think is incredibly cute. Do you agree with mia?

Yes and no answers only. Any other type of answer will be dismissed and discarded.

Yes
As cute as I need to be
Depends, is wooden leg a new dance move?
What type of pain are we talking?
Who cares?
Paddy? Mia? Who?

Why aren't you voting Sesq or giving content?

[Titus]

Hammer Sesq and we'll get you back involved tomorrow. I think we all need a flip. If you still feel that way post flip, I will hopefully see you around.

[Titus]

That's a hammer folks.

[Titus]

VOTE: Mutton

[Titus]

VOTE: math

you never meta creature wrong? rejection
i meta'd him right so clearly this isn't a weird playing exception

Why are you voting a cop claim? We lynch within doc claimers until scum is found.

[Titus]

I'll vote Titus or Math.
Last time they weren't at each other's necks they were both Scum.

Math is not subtle in what they are doing.

[Titus]

VOTE: math

you never meta creature wrong? rejection
i meta'd him right so clearly this isn't a weird playing exception

Why are you voting a cop claim? We lynch within doc claimers until scum is found.

because math is my strongest scum read and there's no longer a majority of doc claims alive (great!)
there's guaranteed at least 1 scum in 5 people. that's not mathematically worth it at this point mate.

Are you afraid of the noose coming around your own neck?

I'm not lynchable today more likely than not. The n1 cops all looked pretty genuine. From anyone else's PoE, that leads to a lynch on you. So scum are trying to turn this away to lynch a cop.

[Titus]

The n1 cops all looked pretty genuine.

?

N1 docs. I was sleepy. That should be clear from context.

[Titus]

interesting addition to that, Titus should be able to read navy
has she even mentioned her? from memory no but maybe
she should be telling us navy is town or scum though
her not taking a stance is unlike my experience which is odd bro

I have a weak TR on Navy. Navy tends to be less comprehensible as town. Not rock solid here. Navy did fool me in Spring Fever though

[Titus]

Titus, do you think there's something fishy in the way Vedith is turning against you? You are coming across as non-committal right now.

Really, I'm very committed to my plan. Lynch within doctors since PoE.

[Titus]

Titus I has sads

Come be my thread mason.

VOTE: NJAC

For not posting reads or content and just a massive V/LA.

He's probably scum too but I want Mutton for now. Let's see how Mutton v me shakes out before you say obvious move.

[Titus]

Titus, do you think there's something fishy in the way Vedith is turning against you? You are coming across as non-committal right now.

Really, I'm very committed to my plan. Lynch within doctors since PoE.

Okay talk with me about all the doctors besides yourself Titus. What's your reads on them?

Pedit okay

VOTE: Mutton

The n1 docs are unlikely to be scum based on how they claimed. That leaves Mutton. The sudden shift to want to lynch away from docs when you practically harding up in this place also suggests a 1 doc 2 cop claim setup.

If Mutton failed to claim change, game became PoE.

[Titus]

The dialogue in the middle is decent, but the conclusions don't match the middle.

[Titus]

Vedith, I ask again. How do the two new flips change your calculation?
Why is Titus suspicious all of a sudden when you defended her quite strongly yesterday?

Well, it solved the game from my point of view. I have all 3 scum, and that's 100% thanks to the mass claim.

I already said why about Titus and Math. The only games they aren't going at each other is when they are both scum.

That's just not true. We did have a game where one of us would buddy the other.

I also know Math cop cleared me. They were not subtle about it.

You need me as your doc suspect, so you must paint Math as scum too. They could be scum buddying me but I literally don't give two fucks bc they must get lynched before me in optimal play. Optimal play says find the doc scum first. So, you'd just swap Math in my place for now.

If they'd flip town, I'm conf clear. If they flipped scum, yippie bonus for us.

I know Math isn't scum though so I am like meh whatever.

Let's lynch Mutton who is scum by PoE.

[Titus]

I know Math isn't scum though so I am like meh whatever

Should say I am not scum.

[Titus]

You just said what I basically already said about you and Math lynches, Titus.

Tell me, why is Mutton scum by POE?
Explain why all the other doc claims are town.

The n1 docs have little motivation to claim the way they do as scum. It just puts them in a place where they cannot lynch their protects.

I am town.

No other doc claimer exists but Mutton.

[Titus]

though, and this is an important fact
if Titus flips scum navy is no longer a town sack
it still weirds me out that Titus didn't read navy
I haven't seen them as scum together so that world maybe?
otherwise though yea this is town
navy is more useful as scum when around

That's a lie. I responded to your question on Navy.

Vedith is also ovbious scum for his 180 with no reason in latest postings. *shrug*

[Titus]

2 things can happen here, alas
if math hardclaims an inno my lynchpool today is {sparkles, math}
if math flips town I can just doc Titus
and if math flips scum Titus is no longer clearitis
if people believe the claim, sparkles can be roped
also, and I can't stress this enough, tomorrow lylo if a mislynch folks
so if you want to accept maths inno as town you need to me completely solid in that
because tomorrow there's no room for pussyfooting around inoo n shat

Why Sparkles?

It makes more sense that you are scum that bought me off with an AtE apology.

[Titus]

though, and this is an important fact
if Titus flips scum navy is no longer a town sack
it still weirds me out that Titus didn't read navy
I haven't seen them as scum together so that world maybe?
otherwise though yea this is town
navy is more useful as scum when around

That's a lie. I responded to your question on Navy.

Vedith is also ovbious scum for his 180 with no reason in latest postings. *shrug*

yes, you responded to my question. that's not taking the initiative to give a read on a player you're extremely fanulat with.
and what vedith 180 are you talking about? and why is that a scum tell in thin?

That's because Navy subs out a lot and I read her wrong in Spring Fever. I wanted to make the right call not decide just because someone suggests I need to.

Second, Vedith 180ed on lynching within the doctors where known scum are, 180ed on his townread of me, and is just spewing "ego" rather than respond substantively to what's been said.

[Titus]

though, and this is an important fact
if Titus flips scum navy is no longer a town sack
it still weirds me out that Titus didn't read navy
I haven't seen them as scum together so that world maybe?
otherwise though yea this is town
navy is more useful as scum when around

That's a lie. I responded to your question on Navy.

Vedith is also ovbious scum for his 180 with no reason in latest postings. *shrug*

yes, you responded to my question. that's not taking the initiative to give a read on a player you're extremely fanulat with.
and what vedith 180 are you talking about? and why is that a scum tell in thin?

That's because Navy subs out a lot and I read her wrong in Spring Fever. I wanted to make the right call not decide just because someone suggests I need to.

Second, Vedith 180ed on lynching within the doctors where known scum are, 180ed on his townread of me, and is just spewing "ego" rather than respond substantively to what's been said.

you aren't listening. if you have a ton of exp with a player it's your obligation to give thoughts.
you don't need to say navy is town or navy is scum. you could've said your prompted line of nulltownot
you didn't, and what this could mean is you didn't end up faking a read on your partner yet
I'm not saying that's the case, but it's something I'm thinking about. every time I've seen you and navy you've given a read. this game you didnt. bet?

when did vedith say he wasn't lynching in the docs?
how is changing a town read a 180 no?
I town read you yesterday, I don't now
is that a 180 or lying art thou?

I did give thoughts on Navy. You're claiming I didn't. They just weren't definitive thoughts for a reason. You're creating a narrative as to what happened. I've also given a navy read as scum. Vedith was in that game. In fact, in lylo I turned the attention towards solving Navy in that game.

Vedith has tried to push all day away from lynching you. That's the foundation for his read. FML if this is a 3 v 1 with all the scum attacking Math and me. Double FML if two of you are scum and math is buddying me.

There's no way this push stays on me implying I'm scum after a clear unless desperate scum or Math is scum and cred push to set me up later.

[Titus]

The lylo thing is a lie. You couldn't have done that because you were dead before lylo in Spring Fever.

Spring Fever is not the game I was referencing there. I was talking about the treestump game where I was scum.

Spring Fever is where you fooled me as scum.

[Titus]

You just changed what you said. You said I wanted to lynch outside of the docs, Titus.
Now you say it's because I am pushing away from 1 doc to be lynched.
Show me where I say that otherwise you've been caught out on a lie.

You are not pushing on me, Mutton, or any of the d1 doctors. So you want to lynch outside them or you're spamming.

[Titus]

math disappearing after hard softing something thst had no reason to be softed is odd. it's a bit of a bother.
also... I find it unlikely Titus would he her check. this is just wifom, but like, didn't she town read Titus + woldnt you wanna save your check for someone you needed help reading aka not your brother?

Hey, I'm a woman.

Second, you haven't seen Math and I tunnel each other.

[Titus]

Math also got a new job btw.

[Titus]

Math also got a new job btw.

Speaking of which I just got home from it. Why are you bringing up my new job?

--Math

Last page vanishing.

[Titus]

Actually solid point by math that I overlooked, anyone pointing to Mutton for the scum doc needs to find a second scum doc. No way did all three scum claim the same role, even if one switched.

No. He switched because he saw how dumb the position was.

[Titus]

what position?

All 3 scum claim cop.

[Titus]

Don't defer to me Math. It's creepy.

[Titus]

You are not pushing on me, Mutton, or any of the d1 doctors. So you want to lynch outside them or you're spamming.

Go fuck yourself Titus, I've really had enough of you this game.

^^^

I still am reading MCM as town

Why have you had enough? Why is PoE annoying? I feel scum are blowing this out of proportion because they have nowhere else to turn.

[Titus]

so the scum team is me/vedith/Paul?
the game is done, Titus solves it yall!

Itlepip not Paul.

[Titus]

I doubt that team is 100 percent accurate too but it's where I am at. :/

[Titus]

you implied it was Paul by saying scum were blowing it out of proportion after Paul and vedith posted but ok
if you're town, you need to get your head in the game and actually read/seriously reply to my posts today
math is scum, and if you're town you'll probably see that on re read
if I'm wrong on you being scum that means vedith or someone else might be and with only one more mislynch there's no time for you to be a tilted annoying pee

in all honesty I don't see anyone as scummy in this game besides you 3 so if you're actually town (math isn't) then the 3rd scum is a sleeper
I've considered scum!vedith as the third one over you but his attitude and reactions to your trash posting are too in line with mine for me to believe it as ate my dear
like, 1775 is his first post in a while and it's not really relevant. yet, it's my thoughts towards you and math completely after talking to you
njac hasn't posted anything relevant in as long as I can remember, sparkles too
so if you're town I want you to look at the game from a perspective where you have a guilty on math.
even if you don't believe it's true humor me and do it with wrath
if you're town scum!math would mean sparkles is scum because I don't think anybody believes math and I are scum together in any world
so yea, there's your pov, what do you do with it girl?

I'm like 80% sure I have the game solved with {Titus, sparkles, math}. titus is the only slot I am not 95% on.
I don't tunnel, and you are a strong player despite being an annoying sack of donkey dicks this game. show me you're town or be gone.

Yeah, you see the problem here is you are being an annoying sack of shit. I didn't imply Paul was scum by saying you were by blowing things out of proportion. If you're town, I am sorry my insistence on sticking with logic makes you feel that way.

We can absolutely talk if you're town here.

I'll even humor you by discussing a Math scum world if you'll humor me by looking at a Vedith/Pip world. If you can't do that, then this isn't a conversation at all.

[Titus]

also, there's no lynch that's happening outside of math today
we need more than 3 active people, 2 probable scum included, and an occasional pop-in from 3 more to play.

There's no chance I am voting Math today. Convince me you are town and I may vote Sparkles. We are PoEing this.

[Titus]

@MuttonChop, It's Vedith's stategy lately to cuss people out and increase drama.

You keep saying there's no logic behind my posts but that's because you don't like the conclusion. It's really disingenious and scummy looking to say otherwise. We had two doc flips. 5 doc claimers. The n1 claims look town. I'm town. That leaves you by PoE. That's process of elimination. If you begin calming down and discussing things rationally rather than a man upset at where my PoE leads, I'd reasses. Anger only convinces me I am right and you're looking for things to attack.

If Math is scum, you obviously are town. Math would clear me so I'd lynch you. Vedith would then buddy you to piss you off. That's what pip is likely doing as well.

[Titus]

also, there's no lynch that's happening outside of math today
we need more than 3 active people, 2 probable scum included, and an occasional pop-in from 3 more to play.

There's no chance I am voting Math today. Convince me you are town and I may vote Sparkles. We are PoEing this.

if you and I are both town sparkles is lock scum /anyways/ (navy and Alban are off the table)
if you're scum I still think he's scum, so I don't object to lynching him (idk if it's todayable)
the thing is, I've posted /a lot/ of points about math and a few about you. those have been skipped over.
if you go back and actually respond to the big ones, convincingly, it is possible my lover
but I'm still not seriously considering math as green
and you haven't really given a reason for that, so convince me, why is math town (and make sure you actually check if he's just pocketed you I mean)

If I felt you had points, I would answer them. Please rephrase them.

Math generally sounds more off the wall and ridiculous as town. Math has an irrational need for control and fears me. I know how to beat them as scum against them methodically. Every game where I have been scum in a game with Math, partners or not, my scumteams have won. Them checking me is expected as town.

[Titus]

but maybe... just maybe... I'm angry because you keep ignoring my points?
you'vealready said I'm scum by poe. I've asked and been ignored, but explain that poe and why those boys
are town; saying "d1 claims are town therefore you're scum" is not very legitimate when I and most others disagree with the premise and the argument is nonexistent.
so, start by responding to 1767. I brought up exactly this. repent.

I don't ignore your points. Saying the same thing generates the same response.

There's no reason fmpov for any scum to claim n1 heal unless it's to prevent conftown. I don't see that motivation at all. If there was scum in the n1 claimers, they should be all over lynching you and then lynching Math to win. That's not happening here. Instead, players are trying to lynch Math.

Now, looking at 1767 again.

[Titus]

Now, can you case AS?

[Titus]

so Titus, if you're town, why are sparkles and navy town? you've given no reasons including why their day 1 doc claims are believable b.
and then theres 1357. it is basically saying "I think mutton is town but vedith' s case means there's a slight chance he's scum".
the problem? vedith hard trs me now and you're still pushing his dry old case. at least, that's the only reason you gave to, in your words, 180 on me. isn't that right hun?
and, actually, you and math should have actual argumenting going on
you only think I'm scum because of poe, + you're sure maths town for no given reason at all (1681) gone
so surely math saying there's another scum doc but I'm still scum would give you doubt in your poe read?
shouldn't you be talking with your solid town read about why there's another scum doc and please
please, explain to me why you're voting me for poe when your brother/strong town read says there's another scum doc which breaks your poe
if Titus and math ignore this post it's a signed scum confession, repeat.

Vedith's words on you were far from weak. Your change in claim was beyond stupid and ridiculously anti-town. It did nothing to help town either. If you were town and stopped acting all proud, it would make me much more open. I unvoted you when you apologized for misleading us. When you no longer seemed to regret that play and accepted Vedith's hard buddying, you went back in my scumpool.

Vedith has no reason to suddenly TR you given he was in lock step with me yesterday on lynch the docs until we hit scum. The only conclusion why he'd 180 is that he's scum and he cannot lynch his desired target (me) or scum or his pawn (you if town). So he picks a fight and increases drama.

It's the new site meta to call players dicks when you cannot get what you want.

[Titus]

I didn't realize the Math parts. Frankly, Math's gut reads are almost always wrong as town so I pay them little heed until they justify.

I could be wrong on the number of cop scum. I am not wrong on there being scum in doctors.

Can you case AS?

[Titus]

speaking of that, if the mod doesn't start prodding people soon and people don't start actually playing im gonna sub
I can't play a 10 person game with 3 people, this is torture not fun

That's what scum do lately.

[Titus]

@Vedith, then leave the personal drama at the door. It's anti-town as fuck and getting in the way. You are driving others away with your incessant bullshit.

@Mutton, I asked you to case AS twice before.
Math also doesn't have any reasons for SRing you beyond humoring me. I called them out on it.

[Titus]

To be honest I can't stand playing with you anymore, Titus
I get that you're Scum but you tell a lie, I call it out and you say I'm just spamming in the game. Considering I'm one of the few people who has been trying to keep the game progressing.

So for now on going forward I won't join your games and you don't join any with me please.

If you fear your Scum skill and need the game to be at a minimal of posts I'll just post minimal because I want to interact with you 0% after this post.

If you're really town. Sort your ego out "you called me Scum so you're Scum" is so pathetic...

That s all.

you don't need to interact with Titus. read my posts about her and fam.
oh, and vote math, since he faked an inno on a buddy/to pocket Titus (my man!)

you're probably town but it's not pro town to get frustrated at an annoying player and quit the game because of it
you still need to post content and power through it, especially in a game as dead as this. ignore Titus' posts if you want. there's other shit.

At least you're honest here and calling Vedith out for his tantrum.

[Titus]

@Vedith, then leave the personal drama at the door. It's anti-town as fuck and getting in the way. You are driving others away with your incessant bullshit.

@Mutton, I asked you to case AS twice before.
Math also doesn't have any reasons for SRing you beyond humoring me. I called them out on it.

yes. read back. I've given lots of reasoning early game. there's nothing late game because as hasn't done anything (lame)
also, I've said for a long time I firmly believe one of the d1 docs are red. Alban is town and that is not gonna end. I thought it was sheep but rereading I was wrong and he's obv town especially wrt how he interacted with me. that leaves agent sparkles tee hee hee.

Yeah, cmon man. You can't gripe about me having a PoE box, use a PoE box yourself and bitch about mine leading me to you. Why is AS scum?

Math's other reasons is code for humoring me.

[Titus]

let's look at this one last time
->you are voting me for poe (rhyme)
->math votes that because you're an inno
->math firmly believes there's 2 doc scum
->this means your entire reason for voting me would be wrong to math (fun)
->math still votes me, to humor a conftown, despite the conftowns premise being wrong
->despite maths own beliefs directly disproving your reason for voting me, and wrecking the full argument (poe), math still votes along
is this the world you expect me to believe?
sorry if I find something this ridiculous hard to conceive

Yup. People can agree on scum for differing reasons but I think Math is just humoring me.

[Titus]

read the game. I'm not going to recant info about sparkles. same.

Recant. I'm not asking you to take back anything about Sparkles. I'm asking you to drop this nonsense posting and try to persuade me why AS is a better lynch than you.

[Titus]

read the game. I'm not going to recant info about sparkles. same.

Recant. I'm not asking you to take back anything about Sparkles. I'm asking you to drop this nonsense posting and try to persuade me why AS is a better lynch than you.

Ebwop Recant. = Recant?

[Titus]

I don't see anything in those two posts requiring Mutton to be scum. Sparkles looks worse there.

[Titus]

I don't see anything in those two posts requiring Mutton to be scum. Sparkles looks worse there.

I'm not quoting Almost's entire ISO. Sparkles looks not good or bad there but Mutton has either been on conf town or someone I townread (navy) or me the entire fucking game.

That's usually indicative of townbeard, not scum.

[Titus]

I don't see anything in those two posts requiring Mutton to be scum. Sparkles looks worse there.

I'm not quoting Almost's entire ISO. Sparkles looks not good or bad there but Mutton has either been on conf town or someone I townread (navy) or me the entire fucking game.

That's usually indicative of townbeard, not scum.

The ghost of Mastina would disagree with you. (See Mastina's VCA guide)

Do your epic full blown VCA please.

I hold until there's a scum lynch.

Guess what, I think mastina's VCA is not vca but something else useful.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Mutton

That being said, I'm reporting Mutton for a force replace.

[Titus]

Sorry about that. I don't know why you're so angry. I tried.

[Titus]

we've played together lots on my main with no issues, not that that matters for anything.

So what is different here? I'd like to know. Why is it like pulling teeth to talk to you about A and S, where we could agree?

Also, if you tell my sibling to go kill themselves I'll be upset.

[Titus]

Vedith, can you stop throwing a tantrum and reasonably engage people.

I cannot have a reasonable discussion with you regarding who is the scum doctor? You accuse me of playing to ego and get personally insulting. A communication requires both parties.

[Titus]

This isn't helpful Vedith. This isn't about telling anyone what to do, but have a constructive dialogue.

I don't want you to vote Mutton because you think it will appease me. I am not certain he's scum and I want to check my work.

Yet having a constructive dialogue with readwalls with youbis impossible.

[Titus]

Cmon Vedith. If I am town, who is scum in the doctors and why? Show me where I went wrong please.

[Titus]

AS protected NJAC night 1 and was first to claim.
There was no kill night 2.

Typo no kill night 1.

[Titus]

@Vedith, So I'm lock scum for pursuing lynch where there must be scum? And it's driving you crazy that I won't lynch within the cop claimers?

Jjh was threatening to cop Math then he dies. That's stronger evidence for Math scum than Navy scum.

We can infer that Vedith/NotTheRealPaul/NJAC/Gamma slot will have more useful results in later days. Lynching them barring scumclaim is suboptimal.

[Titus]

Docs always heal cop claims or me bc clearedish [only scum if Math is].

Cops target docs (but me) or Math.

Eventually we PoE doc claim.

[Titus]

Kelvin, who do you think is the scum doctor? Let's lynch them.

[Titus]

You'd have every reason to mislynch me because confirmed Town going into LyLO isn't something scum want.

You're not confirmed town and never will be. It would take three Cops to claim an Innocent on you for you to be confirmed. Or a Cop to claim an innocent on you and then die.

I'll humor your town claim for a second though. Pretend I'm town for a second and let's have a civilized talk about why lynching you would be a bad idea and what some better alternatives would be and why.

There's logically confirmed and practically obvtown. If someone cops someone else and says inno, it screams lynch me before anyone else.

[Titus]

@alban mathblade still

The only docs I might lynch are AS and maybe navy.

I still think math lynch is bet so we have a possibility of a conftown going into mylo.

Then you make Math scum's problem.

Why AS and Navy?

[Titus]

Scum have to kill me or Titus period. Titus and I will wreck this game for scum otherwise.

They can't kill Titus because likely doc. So scum have to go for me or pretty much just gg no re.

Let's not do scum's job for them.

Even if that were true, which I honestly doubt, then they'd still obviously pick Titus over you. There's no good reason to kill you, period. Titus is cleared only by you. There's no good reason for a Doc to protect her right now. Especially with how much heat I'm putting on you and how much flailing you're doing.

And this Titus buddying is really starting to make me think that she really is town and you're just trying to stroke her ego to get her to believe in you over me.

Oh, and to your earlier comment about lynching an outted Cop always being a bad play, that's such absolute crap. Even in a game with a claimed full Cop, there are sometimes points where a Cop lynch is an acceptable play, so don't lie and pretend that's not the case. And it's even more true in a setup where Cops are plentiful. Even if your claim was true, which I really doubt at this point, you yield no mechanical value for town anymore and are utterly lynchable.

This is true but healing me is good from town Math perspective bad from scum them.

Lynch the cop day before lylo if it's a problem. That's when to do that. Otherwise, scum's problem.

I also am not voting you either bc I think the rage quit was town. Docs are the superior play.

[Titus]

You'd have every reason to mislynch me because confirmed Town going into LyLO isn't something scum want.

You're not confirmed town and never will be. It would take three Cops to claim an Innocent on you for you to be confirmed. Or a Cop to claim an innocent on you and then die.

I'll humor your town claim for a second though. Pretend I'm town for a second and let's have a civilized talk about why lynching you would be a bad idea and what some better alternatives would be and why.

There's logically confirmed and practically obvtown. If someone cops someone else and says inno, it screams lynch me before anyone else.

No..It doesn't.

Like wtf?

Yeah it does. You're wearing a huge sign that says lynch me before Titus. Unless I obvtown, people will want your head. Just sad facts.

[Titus]

@Paul Tree Coop?

[Titus]

What about them? Help me lynch Math, bro.

You need to explain your plan here.

Let me give you a scenerio which is a possible out come.

We lynch Math - Math flips town.
Titus is confirmed

Scum night kill one of the cops

5v3 - LyLo with not lynching the person we wouldn't be lynching anyway.

Then where do you go? On Docs? No, because that's shooting in the dark, right?

Your "plan" has a flaw in it.

Keep in ind, this is just 1 situation, I am not calling Math and Titus town.

Why wouldn't scum kill me?

[Titus]

@Kelvin,

Look, let's be frank here. I don't think either you or Math is scum. I think you're both being stubborn. I'd still lynch you over Math because Math can never vote me and does nothing for PoE.

Creature was the first death after massclaim. Let's just lynch whichever n1 doctor didn't heal Creature and is not you.

[Titus]

@NotPaul, There's more resistance to PoEing doctors than a Math lynch.

[Titus]

Why did you change your stand regarding Titus?

I can only be scum if Math is.

This seems awfully derp clear straining. Like how could anyone read and not know that?

Also, why are you trying to put me on the defensive? O.o

[Titus]

@Kelvin,

Look, let's be frank here. I don't think either you or Math is scum. I think you're both being stubborn. I'd still lynch you over Math because Math can never vote me and does nothing for PoE.

Creature was the first death after massclaim. Let's just lynch whichever n1 doctor didn't heal Creature and is not you.

Sorry, but no. Unless you can give me a non-read reason why we shouldn't vote Math, then I will unfortunately not be able to work with you here. If you're town, then you should understand that Math does great thinks for PoE for the rest of the town. As I'm sure you know, it's not just all about any one player's perspective.

No. Lynching a different doctor does just as much for PoE. Trying to turn the lynch to Math is scum motivated.

You said it yourself. Math has little reason to lie about my alignment. If so, lynching Math doesn't further PoE at all.

[Titus]

@Kelvin,

Look, let's be frank here. I don't think either you or Math is scum. I think you're both being stubborn. I'd still lynch you over Math because Math can never vote me and does nothing for PoE.

Creature was the first death after massclaim. Let's just lynch whichever n1 doctor didn't heal Creature and is not you.

Sorry, but no. Unless you can give me a non-read reason why we shouldn't vote Math, then I will unfortunately not be able to work with you here. If you're town, then you should understand that Math does great thinks for PoE for the rest of the town. As I'm sure you know, it's not just all about any one player's perspective.

No. Lynching a different doctor does just as much for PoE. Trying to turn the lynch to Math is scum motivated.

Considering I'm not scum, that's an inherently inaccurate statement.

You said it yourself. Math has little reason to lie about my alignment. If so, lynching Math doesn't further PoE at all.

Little reason =/= No reason. I could envision a world where Math lies about you because you both think that you are slick enough and influential enough as scum to never get caught. You are both so willing to defend each other right now that that narrative perfectly fits here.

Town Math flip does help PoE, because then we know for a fact that you aren't scum, so we'll never lynch you and we increase the chances of a successful Doc save, because Docs will have every reason to target you.

Scum Math flip doesn't help PoE, sure, but we get some breathing room to find some more scum, so that's irrelevant.

No reason you've said here doesn't apply to a doctor claim. Lynching Math gives scum options. I get they are annoying you, but that's not a reason to lynch. They get tunnelly.

[Titus]

No reason you've said here doesn't apply to a doctor claim. Lynching Math gives scum options. I get they are annoying you, but that's not a reason to lynch. They get tunnelly.

False. A town Doc flipping does not clear you as town. We get no conftown from mislynching a random Doc. And we still won't know if Math is scum or not, which means we won't know if you are scum or not.

If we get a scum Doc, that would be nice, but then we're still going to need to lynch Math later to either confirm you as town or confirm that you are somebody worth investigating. Right now, I want to know what your alignment is, because my recent interactions with you are pinging me hard and that's worrying me. So Math it is. If you want to join the crusade, awesome. If you don't, then maybe we can regroup and collaborate after I've dealt with Math.

If I'm wrong on the value of lynching Math, I'm more than willing to take a backseat for the rest of the game. But right now, I feel like I have a strong sense of direction here and I see an opportunity for victory that I'd rather not flush away.

Lynching the scum doc is a much better option. If I lead a scum lynch, it does the same thing.

If Math isn't lying about my alignment, lynching Math does nothing. I also already know I am town sooo

It's a bridge you aren't selling me. Strategy from my spot says lynch you over Math everytime.

Even if I cannot convince you, can you give reads on the other docs?

[Titus]

@Kelvin, even if we agreed to disagree, I could always get your thoughts on players? Why are you not wanting to discuss navy and Alban?

[Titus]

VOTE: Agent Sparkles

Alban, let's do this.

[Titus]

VOTE: Agent Sparkles

Alban, let's do this.

Honestly, at this point, I'll settle for a Titus lynch. I don't like that it won't confirm MathBlade's alignment if she flips town, but I'm almost willing to make that bet , if people are just going to be obstinate about MathBlade for no good reason. It's certainly a worse play than lynching Math, but it's better than any other possible wagon in this setup.

Yeah you've just shredded why I thought your slot was town. You can't seriously push Math as a strategic lynch and then turn around and want to lynch the person Math says is town. That's just garbage. I can't get why any rational player would do this and it reeks of you just wanting to push anywhere BUT the n1 doctors.

[Titus]

@Vedith, You want Agent Sparkles? Now's your chance.

Right now Math is going to vote AS only if it "takes off". Any lynch outside of that stupid Math v Kelvin fight won't take off unless we work together and I want to force Kelvin to give a read on AS and AS to participate.

Kelvin will hide behind lurking as an excuse not to read players unless we spoke em outm

[Titus]

@Kelvin, From any perspective, making Math their problem is completely optimal. I told you that we're not agreeing. We discussed this. If Math is scum, their options are reduced. Don't act like I am ignoring you because I am not agreeing with you.

@Math. I don't want a policy lynch. I want a scum lynch.

[Titus]

Now if I act tonight, I am healing a cop.

Cops should check Navy.

This will sort most of the concerns in the n1 docs.

[Titus]

Now if I act tonight, I am healing a cop.

Cops should check Navy.

This will sort most of the concerns in the n1 docs.

Fuck that. Cops should check you or Math, depending on if we lynch Math.

Why would a cop repeat Math's check? This kinda sounds like you know Math is scum and you're trying a hard bus that's failing. :/

[Titus]

Can you guys please explain both the Navy and Agent Sparkles wagons and why you think either one is:

1. A good idea?
2. A better idea than Math?

AS heal makes little sense.
Math is leashed and scum's problem.

[Titus]

@Kelvin,

You're arguing you haven't read d1. Go ahead and look at that n1 iso and tell me if anyone makes sense as an n1 kill. Or a VCA. Anything. Otherwise, I'll pass here.

I don't care about "doubt" being on me. If Math or I hit day before lylo, we can deal with it then. Math can never vote me and a cop check on Math can clear both of us (in any practical sense, mathmatically it could be cop, Math, me but that's a bit ridic as that falls like house of cards tomorrow).

It's just not a today thing. It never is.

[Titus]

I'll deal with this in the morning. But please for the love of God do something other than tunnel on Math. It makes me want to never ever lynch them.

[Titus]

I'll deal with this in the morning. But please for the love of God do something other than tunnel on Math. It makes me want to never ever lynch them.

The problem is, your staunch defense of Math makes me feel like I'm on the right track, because it feels like you are dead set on shutting down any conversation on a Math lynch for what appears to me to be no good reason. Which also increases my feelings that you are scum. And which is why, if you are town, I need you to understand this is why I fucking hate reads and don't trust my own or anyone else's. Hell, even if I'm right and you are both scum, that doesn't fucking help me. For all I know, I'm right for the wrong reasons, meaning that my ability to form reads is still ultimately valueless and destructive.

If you had actually said something based on their play, I'd be amenable to talking with you. You aren't. You're crowing strategy lynch when I'm the one slot in the game that learns nothing from your "strategy" lynch. You aren't having a read. Math also has pissed several people off which makes it an easy scum lynch. I don't expect you to be right, but I do expect a conversation.

[Titus]

I'll deal with this in the morning. But please for the love of God do something other than tunnel on Math. It makes me want to never ever lynch them.

The problem is, your staunch defense of Math makes me feel like I'm on the right track, because it feels like you are dead set on shutting down any conversation on a Math lynch for what appears to me to be no good reason. Which also increases my feelings that you are scum. And which is why, if you are town, I need you to understand this is why I fucking hate reads and don't trust my own or anyone else's. Hell, even if I'm right and you are both scum, that doesn't fucking help me. For all I know, I'm right for the wrong reasons, meaning that my ability to form reads is still ultimately valueless and destructive.

If you had actually said something based on their play, I'd be amenable to talking with you. You aren't. You're crowing strategy lynch when I'm the one slot in the game that learns nothing from your "strategy" lynch. You aren't having a read. Math also has pissed several people off which makes it an easy scum lynch. I don't expect you to be right, but I do expect a conversation.

What are you talking about? I already said so many times that I want to lynch MathBlade based on their play. I said that my starting point was strategy and that I've also come to believe that Math is scum. Do you want me to quote all of the times that I've said that or attacked Math's play?

You started from fypov a strategy lynch and sold yourself the behavior is scummy. I want to hear you engage about other people. That's the most persuasive thing you can do.

[Titus]

VOTE: Navy

Not here policy

[Titus]

God, can you and Math knock this tunnel nonsense off? For fucks sake, I don't feel confident in nailing every future lynch and racing before you two vote each otherm

[Titus]

God, can you and Math knock this tunnel nonsense off? For fucks sake, I don't feel confident in nailing every future lynch and racing before you two vote each otherm

Explain a better strategic move to me from my perspective, not yours. I don't give a damn if you claim to know you're town, that doesn't help me.

Any other doc claim. Lynch Navy. If Navy scum, doc resolution resolved we can just cop lurkers.

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right. If it's not, we stop the nonsense and move on.

[Titus]

God, can you and Math knock this tunnel nonsense off? For fucks sake, I don't feel confident in nailing every future lynch and racing before you two vote each otherm

Explain a better strategic move to me from my perspective, not yours. I don't give a damn if you claim to know you're town, that doesn't help me.

Any other doc claim. Lynch Navy. If Navy scum, doc resolution resolved we can just cop lurkers.

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right. If it's not, we stop the nonsense and move on.

I mean, that doesn't really solve the Doc situation at all, it just solves the excess Doc situation.

Also, why do you want to wait for MyLo to lynch Math, when you said earlier we should lynch them the Day before LyLo?

Furthermore, explain how this is remotely superior strategically. Why are either Navy or AS scum? Why are they scummier than Math? Why is it smarter? You haven't explained the strategic advantage of any of these things from my perspective.

It does from your perspective. One doctor must be scum.

If it's not AS or Navy, you have proof that one of us is scum and can use it later.

Because you're push is so tunnel headed, I'd rather no lynch than vote Math. You're not considering what comes from anyone else.

Why are Navy and AS scum? Because they are lurking while town fights it out. Navy's even posting in other games.

It's smarter because scum have to basically votepark tomorrow or give up Math as a mislynch.

[Titus]

kelvin is a doc....

So? He could say he was a cop and lied or have his buddy do it. I don't see a way this doesn't turn into me v Kelvin and Titus seems to have a plan and I'm trying to talk with her to see what she thinks, ya know being confirmed town and all.

Actually though, I'm really glad you brought up that buddy thing. Thanks for giving me the ammunition I needed to push your lynch today. You've perfectly illustrated exactly why we can't keep you alive today.

So basically, we need to lynch Math today, regardless of alignment. If we mislynch today and Math is town, then scum have every incentive to claim a guilty on them. This will feed into the confirmation bias of anybody else who already finds Math suspect (myself included) and is going to result in a town loss.

If Math is scum and we mislynch today, we risk Titus and Math pushing the mislynch of a legitimate Cop who has a guilty on Math tomorrow.

I don't want to risk either of those and I don't have any confidence in our odds of hitting scum in the Doc pool, since apparently nobody even wants to consider Titus as the lynch right now.

Math going paranoid is a hallmark of Town!Math. Scum Math wouldn't accuse you of something patently untrue. That being said, I don't think you are scum either and there's just as legitimate of a concern that someone would fake a guilty on Math given the drama you are stirring up.

The only scenarios you ever consider are scenarios where Math is scum. This doesn't look like someone solving the game but head first in a tunnel.

Second, if a cop had a guilty on Math, I'd want to watch the cards play out. Because that cop failed to do the optimal play in checking a doctor claim which makes PoE easier. We hands down lynch and cop in the doctor claims.

[Titus]

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right.

Wait, explain how and why it would be me vs. Math tomorrow if everything turned out that way. Also, what would we do in the event that there is no Cop result?

So you've figured this out then? Right?

Also, if there were no cop results on D4, I'd be highly suspicious.

The more realistic solution is that the cop results tomorrow will tell us a lot. By leashing them to the doctors, the scum solve the PoE for us.

I think you've figured that out by your recent posting however.

[Titus]

So in other words you're going to vote me in LYLO immediately (should that happen) (to paraphrase the wordiness of the above) even though you know it is the suboptimal play. Even though you still think I could be Town.

Literally anyone who isn't confirmed could be town. That's my whole point about the unreliability of reads.

You aren't advocating what I am doing that is scummy your only argument is that I claimed a cop innocent.

That's not true. Why are you acting like that's the case? I'm arguing that every part of our interaction makes me think you're scum. Case in point, this very post where you misrepresent why I think you are scum. The only thing the innocent has to do with anything is that I'm fairly suspicious of Titus at this point, which is only possible if you're scum.

And in MyLO/LyLO that won't fucking matter. All guilties and innocents are supposed to come out before MyLO/LyLO to prevent exactly the play you are suggesting. And you're suggesting you'd do what is negative utility because...why?

Are you talking about the post where I said you have to die now because of fake claims tomorrow? If so, it simply isn't possible for someone to report results they get Night 3 before MyLo is we mislynch here.

Oh right because I am scum because I gave an innocent.

Your blatant misrepresentations aren't doing much for your image, I don't think.

Neither of you two are talking to each other. Which is why I'm trying to tell you in no uncertain terms to move the fuck on. This argument isn't persuading anyone. It's just bloating the game.

[Titus]

Check AS if Navy town. If AS is town, we are in 1 v 1. Which means we lynch either you or Math tomorrow if your theory is right.

Wait, explain how and why it would be me vs. Math tomorrow if everything turned out that way. Also, what would we do in the event that there is no Cop result?

So you've figured this out then? Right?

No, that's why I asked the question.

Also, if there were no cop results on D4, I'd be highly suspicious.

Highly suspicious of what, exactly?

The more realistic solution is that the cop results tomorrow will tell us a lot. By leashing them to the doctors, the scum solve the PoE for us.

In what sense?

I think you've figured that out by your recent posting however.

You thought wrong.

Cops can only be nights 1-5.
We specifically avoided claiming nights. The odds of only the n4 and n5 cops being alive tomorrow is ridiculous. Scum will have to fake a result sooner or later unless they collectively en masse want to pretend to be n4 or n5, which puts them in a position where they will not know who they are side eyeing.
I expect a move on d3 by either a town cop or a scumfuck that refuses to lynch in there. Which is why we lynch the docs and force the cops to check within the doctors.
To deny town information, they'll have to reduce the PoE pool as scum aren't going to shoot the doctors. I checked the dead guy literally will not be an acceptable move.
If scum do decide to check a doctor, we'll have the results then.

[Titus]

So in other words you're going to vote me in LYLO immediately (should that happen) (to paraphrase the wordiness of the above) even though you know it is the suboptimal play. Even though you still think I could be Town.

Literally anyone who isn't confirmed could be town. That's my whole point about the unreliability of reads.

You aren't advocating what I am doing that is scummy your only argument is that I claimed a cop innocent.

That's not true. Why are you acting like that's the case? I'm arguing that every part of our interaction makes me think you're scum. Case in point, this very post where you misrepresent why I think you are scum. The only thing the innocent has to do with anything is that I'm fairly suspicious of Titus at this point, which is only possible if you're scum.

And in MyLO/LyLO that won't fucking matter. All guilties and innocents are supposed to come out before MyLO/LyLO to prevent exactly the play you are suggesting. And you're suggesting you'd do what is negative utility because...why?

Are you talking about the post where I said you have to die now because of fake claims tomorrow? If so, it simply isn't possible for someone to report results they get Night 3 before MyLo is we mislynch here.

Oh right because I am scum because I gave an innocent.

Your blatant misrepresentations aren't doing much for your image, I don't think.

Neither of you two are talking to each other. Which is why I'm trying to tell you in no uncertain terms to move the fuck on. This argument isn't persuading anyone. It's just bloating the game.

I'm not "convincing" you. Virtually nobody else is directly talking about us, which is extremely unfortunate. I'm not just going to move on and throw the fucking game away. I mean, I could. What's one more loss mean to me anyway? But since the point of the game is to try to win, then that's what I'm going to try to do.

There's three scum. Even if we presume I'm not convincing you, holding your nose and pretending means that Math may tell you who their hypothetical partners are. By tunnelling them, you give them an excuse to tunnel you right back. So figure out what you need to develop more reads and do it.

[Titus]

I saw that.

You want to fight? I'm cop cleared honey. You could try to buddy Kelvin harder man.

Navy's posting elsewhere. They aren't posting here because they are scum.

@Math, I don't think you have a single scum in your pool.

[Titus]

Aww sorry about your cop clear honey but in case you hadn't forgotten this is the strategy that you stole from me

Just vote Math. Math will flip town.

We can lynch you and Navy then.

Then, we can find the last scum who is probably NJAC.

[Titus]

Might be itlepip but probably NJAC.

[Titus]

If I die tonight everyone is voting Titus tomorrow.
You're not going to say shit about how Math and Titus wouldn't have done this because I was the one who came up with the play that they're doing in 685 with Titus.

Just vote Math. Math will flip town.

Sure, honey

685 was a game where I faked a cop guilty on my partner. Math has an innocent. So that doesn't work and even if we fail to lynch scum!Navy, you'll be shown to be full of shit.

@Math, I didn't realize you had Navy in there. Brain fart on my end.

[Titus]

Navy (4): NJAC, Titus, Vedith, Mathblade,
Mathblade (2): itlepip, Kelvin Smith, Radiant Cowbells
Agent Sparkles (1): NotTheRealPaul,


Not Voting (2): Navy, alban,

Ok, so we need NTRP and alban to get a scum lynch off today and solve the game by PoE. I wonder why there's so much resistance to lynching a lurker slot.

[Titus]

Error Math also suffers from lag.

Error Kelvin is trying anything possible to avoid lynching Navy at this point.

We should like do something about my error log people.

No. Kelvin is town tunneling on you, which means we have to get every other town to agree to lynch Navy.

[Titus]

If I die tonight everyone is voting Titus tomorrow.
You're not going to say shit about how Math and Titus wouldn't have done this because I was the one who came up with the play that they're doing in 685 with Titus.

Just vote Math. Math will flip town.

Sure, honey

685 was a game where I faked a cop guilty on my partner. Math has an innocent. So that doesn't work and even if we fail to lynch scum!Navy, you'll be shown to be full of shit.

@Math, I didn't realize you had Navy in there. Brain fart on my end.

OH NO BULLSHIT THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS FOR YOU TO INNO ME.
YOU ARE NOT ACTUALLY GOING TO LIE BECAUSE THE SCUM TOPIC NEVER GOT RELEASED.

We discussed and dismissed several plans over skype. We decided on guiltying you. I have done practically every move as town and as scum. So yeah, most everyone here knows it.

[Titus]

I CLAIM COP WITH A GUILTY ON TITUS. WE ARE LYNCHING IN THE TWO OF US, OR MATHBLADE IF I CAN'T NEGOTIATE A TITUS LYNCH.

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

This is easy. This is the one PoE time where it strategically makes sense to vote a cop claim from my perspective. There's not a chance you have a guilty on me. Agent Sparkles would have claimed it and he did post today. He didn't. He never really pushed Math either as lying.

So you want to play with Fire? Go ahead.

[Titus]

Oh and AS even claimed doc that's right. So you can try it, or you can sit down. Accept I am town. Accept Navy's getting rope.

That's obvious fake to save Navy.

VOTE: Navy

[Titus]

Error Kelvin is trying anything possible to avoid lynching Navy at this point.

Uh, I'm pretty sure I agreed to a Navy lynch if everyone agreed to lynch you tomorrow. I'm not doing everything possible to avoid a Navy lynch, I'm doing everything possible to get a Math/Titus lynch, because I'm pretty sure that's where scum is and your flip would confirm or deny that hypothesis.

Stall tactic 101. Do I need to look up how many times scum have said "Hey mislynch this person and I help you tomorrow" and then conveniently something comes up. Yes you literally are.

Math, they are tunnelling you. They're playing according to ABR's guide and he's the most toxic player on the site. Ignore them. Focus on Navy.

[Titus]

I CLAIM COP WITH A GUILTY ON TITUS. WE ARE LYNCHING IN THE TWO OF US, OR MATHBLADE IF I CAN'T NEGOTIATE A TITUS LYNCH.

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

This is easy. This is the one PoE time where it strategically makes sense to vote a cop claim from my perspective. There's not a chance you have a guilty on me. Agent Sparkles would have claimed it and he did post today. He didn't. He never really pushed Math either as lying.

So you want to play with Fire? Go ahead.

Titus pretending not to understand the context behind my 'claiming a guilty' and acting like I'm claiming a legitimate guilty and pointing to my predecessor's play as an excuse.
If she were town: she would know I would be not serious. I wouldn't rando fakeguilty her as scum either. She's scum instead so she's legitimately concerned that my slot could have had a guilty.

Not possible. We massclaimed Doc Cop.

Or did you forget what your slot fakeclaimed?

[Titus]

VOTE: Math

I'll trade 1 for 1 if RC is lying.

RC is in a Doc slot protecting Navy man.

[Titus]

I'm town, Navy is still very probably town.
I'm going to read the other doctor claims.

For the record I think that Mathblade is probably scum, regardless of Titus's alignment, but I want to sort out the doc situation today.

Based on what?

Navy's posting everywhere but this thread.
Game is PoEing.

At least one of Kelvin/Me+Math/You/Navy must be scum.

Given your stances, I don't think you SR Kelvin. You don't SR yourself. You don't SR me. That leaves Navy.

[Titus]

Error Kelvin is trying anything possible to avoid lynching Navy at this point.

Uh, I'm pretty sure I agreed to a Navy lynch if everyone agreed to lynch you tomorrow. I'm not doing everything possible to avoid a Navy lynch, I'm doing everything possible to get a Math/Titus lynch, because I'm pretty sure that's where scum is and your flip would confirm or deny that hypothesis.

Stall tactic 101. Do I need to look up how many times scum have said "Hey mislynch this person and I help you tomorrow" and then conveniently something comes up. Yes you literally are.

Math, they are tunnelling you. They're playing according to ABR's guide and he's the most toxic player on the site. Ignore them. Focus on Navy.

I don't know who or what an ABR is, but what I'm trying to do is fucking win this wrecked fucking game.

Game isn't wrecked at all. If you'd be considering the possibility of Math town, the game is near solved.
Navy is like 95% scum.

[Titus]

I'm town, Navy is still very probably town.
I'm going to read the other doctor claims.

For the record I think that Mathblade is probably scum, regardless of Titus's alignment, but I want to sort out the doc situation today.

Based on what?

Navy's posting everywhere but this thread.
Game is PoEing.

At least one of Kelvin/Me+Math/You/Navy must be scum.

Given your stances, I don't think you SR Kelvin. You don't SR yourself. You don't SR me. That leaves Navy.

RC this is for you.

[Titus]

VOTE: Mathblade

Okay!

Alban was a scumread since before I replaced in: is there a reason he's cleared?

Heals and recent posting.

Now, RC, if you think I'm town, that's just blatantly not discussing Navy and buddying the fuck up to Kelvin at this point.
Then someone votes Kelvin out of sheer fucking anger.
Town loses.

Is that what you want?