Mini 1140 - Mafia Mishmash...Game Over!!
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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1. EST
2. Negative
3. I haven't played enough games to have formed an opinion on this yet.
4. Pretty frequently.
5. I haven't played a ton of games, so I'm still working on this. On the one hand, you can't have a town full of leaders, but sheeping can be dangerous depending on who's doing the leading. That said, I prefer to do my own work when scum hunting.
I've played 2 full games, if anyone is wondering.-
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subgenius Goon
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Hm, seems like a pretty powerful tool for giving your completely subjective observations a false air of objectivity. I do not like it. I'll reserve judgement until I've seen it in action for at least a little while, but I trust well reasoned cases better than I trust a tally of isolated scum tells.vollkan wrote: My avatar is meant to be expressing anger at the use of "gut". FWIW, if I have a schtick on this site, it's for hating gut-based play.
Among the justifications for my points system is that it directly ties every single suspicion I have to specific reasons. (eg. if I find something scummy, I say why and then say, eg,+5. What this means is that my suspicions are always clearly linked to specific reasons.)
@pappums
I appreciate that you respect my divination skills to such an extent that you will follow my lead even while directing an HoS at somebody else. Why would you not vote for your own suspect? Did you slaughter your own goat, or did you use an ouija board?-
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subgenius Goon
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Re: Abstaining from RVS=scummy
It's not scummy if other action is taken in lieu of RVS'ing. At this point, I don't think it's scummy, but hypothetically, if we don't see tclawren do anything productive in the next 2 weeks, I think it would be fair to point towards his refusal to RVS as his first infraction. That being said, at this point I don't find it scummy, and hopefully I won't find it scummy two weeks from now either.-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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Scummy was probably a stronger word than I should have used. Suffice it to say, I would like to hear from those who haven't posted yet.Maxous wrote:@Subgenius: You are suspicious of anyone that has'nt posted yet? It has been around a day and as you said they could easily be doing anything.
That comes across as a filler comment.-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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I agree with what some others have said. Either Magnetic is a) scum, b) a townie who is willing to lie for very little reason, or c) a miniscule chance that he's actually a doctor. I'm willing to lynch either of "a" or "b". The reason for lynching "a" is obvious. The reason for lynching "b" is that if I can't trust that someone isn't playing around with gambits and reaction tests, I can't read them as scum or town, and I don't want that kind of player making things more difficult down the road. Even on the off chance that "c" is true, magnetic will either be NK'd immediately or set us up for some really fruitless WIFOM if he isn't.
I'm willing to hammer Magnetic, but i want to hear what he has to say nos that he's at L-1. He'd have to make an amazing amount of sense to change my mind, though.-
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subgenius Goon
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I have no problem with prolonging the day a bit, but magnetic needs to be lynched in the end. ATM, I am not liking bgg's posts. Posting pressure vote analogies is not useful in any way whatsoever, and this analysis of magnetic's claim makes no sense:
As I said, this makes no sense at all, and I see scum motivation behind it regardless of how magnetic flips. If magnetic is scum, this, along with his insistence on extending the day is pretty damning. If magnetic is town, I see this as an attempt to get townie cred by being the only person who gave magnetic the benefit of the doubt. The logic here is just too twisted. It's more likely to have come from a scum trying to force a point while having an ulterior motive in mind than to have come from a townie expressing a sincere belief.bgg1996 wrote:What do you think the possibility is that Magnetic is Strong doctor?
That would explain why he claimed weak doctor, why he didn't know what it did, perhaps why he thought that claiming a role that he didn't know what did would clear himself.
He could've been scared that he would die, and take back his claim, and then put it back when he realizedit made him more suspiscious.
It's possible, if not likely.
I'm not going to vote magnetic, because the consensus seems to favor chatting a bit more, and I have no problem with that, but magnetic must die, bgg1996 is not far behind him though. Fortunately, that's where my vote was already anyway.-
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subgenius Goon
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I know I just finished saying that I wasn't going to vote for you, but this post pissed me off. You're either scum, or you're a troll. I'm more than happy to lynch either. If somebody else on your wagon wants to unvote to prolong the day, they're welcome to it, but I personally hope they don't.
unvote
vote: Magnetic-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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In response to Regfan's questions:
1) I'm guessing 3 mafia of a single faction and an SK.
3) I'm not seeing too much of use there.
@Truant
Are you thinking that Yura is a SK or mafia? tclawren was stabbed, not shot, meaning he was probably killed by the SK, so if you're saying he was targeted on the basis of having an accurate read, it could only have been by the SK. The SK would have no way of knowing how accurate his mafia reads were, just as the mafia would have no way of knowing how accurate his SK reads were.
vote bgg1996
Although his theory was partly right, since magnetic turned out to be a doc, I still don't like this post.
ISO #3
I find this theory to be extremely far fetched, and I don't think it would serve any use for a town player. While a town player might accept that such a theory is possible, there's no reason for paying any attention to it, because it's so unlikely. I think the probable explanation of this post is that bgg1996 is scum and saw magnetic make a horrible play that would almost certainly get him lynched. Knowing that magnetic was actually town, bgg made this post in an effort to gain credibility after magnetic was lynched and flipped town.bgg1996 wrote:What do you think the possibility is that Magnetic is Strong doctor?
That would explain why he claimed weak doctor, why he didn't know what it did, perhaps why he thought that claiming a role that he didn't know what did would clear himself.
He could've been scared that he would die, and take back his claim, and then put it back when he realizedit made him more suspiscious.
It's possible, if not likely.-
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subgenius Goon
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There's no way for us to know, and it's irrelevant anyway.bgg1996 wrote:Wait, did that mean that the weak doctor did what the wiki says it does, or what magnetic said it did?
What reason would he have to justify magnetic's actions? If bgg was a townie and thought magnetic was also town, he would want to justify magnetic's actions, but I would expect him to have better reasons than an admittedly far fetched hypothetical scenario.Surprise_Carcinogen wrote:I disagree with your thoughts on Bgg. The probable explanation is that Bgg was trying to justify completely irrational actions on the part of someone who was later banned for trolling, and stretched a little bit into the realm of the improbable.
bgg1996, feel free to answer this as well.-
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subgenius Goon
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So... you thought he was scum, but your first reaction was to propose a scenario in which he was just a confused townie. Secondly, there's no way we could have confirmed magnetic's role, regardless of how long the day went. I would also deem it extremely unlikely that we would be able to ascertain the identity, not to mention the existence of the SK, by extending the day.-
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subgenius Goon
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Scum know that their targets are going to be examined and pick them accordingly. Knowing this, it's foolish to read too much into why the targets were chosen. We can't know the scum motivation for killing any particular player, so it would be unwise to lynch somebody on the basis of assuming we know those motivations. The killer might have picked tclawren because he considered him a strong town candidate, but unlikely to be watched. He might have picked him purely randomly. He might have picked him with the intention of making the exact argument you're making on D2 to fuel the lynch of an innocent. Also, the "optimal" kill isn't necessarily the player that has already expressed suspicion of the actual scum, it could be the player that is considered most likely to eventually pin point the scum and lead a wagon against him. Further, the scum know that their targets are going to be examined and pick them accordingly. Knowing this, it's foolish to read too much into why the targets were chosen.Truant wrote: Also, as an overall meta standpoint that I firmly believe in: if we punish scum for making "optimal" decisions (killing those who are a threat to them) by analyzing every NK for motivation, then we can force them into making suboptimal decisions because they don't want to get outed. Therefore, by forcing them into making suboptimal decisions we can gain a slight advantage resulting more often in a town win.
Overall, I consider this reason for voting pretty poor.
Also, if you think Yura is the SK, who are you thinking is mafia? Why didn't you analyze Pappum's death in a similar way as tclawren's? This seems exceedingly scummy imo, because only mafia would be solely interested in finding the SK.-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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Scum would be have to be full of idiots to not consider the likelihood that the town will go back and re-read the opinions of their victims. Again, scum has every reason to try to remove threats, but D1 fos's are not the only criteria that scum would use to in judging how threatening a townie is, and to lynch based on that basis is foolish.Truant wrote: @subgenius: Yes, cause scum plan for nk analysis to intentionally gimp themselves first night when they don't know whether or not the NK will be analyzed. Yes, they *might* have done anything, but the most logical and best choice for them typically is removing threats to them.
That makes sense, but there were two victims, and you only analyzed the presumed SK victim. If your method is valid at all, it would work just as well against mafia, but you didn't even make an attempt. I'll agree that taking out the single SK is more beneficial than taking out one of several mafia, but catching one of each is better. You didn't even make an attempt to create a mafia lead.Truant wrote: I analyzed the SK first to see if there was a good start on eliminating an anti-town NK right off the bat. We can't be assured that they'll go for scum (or that they'll even hit scum) so therefore I'd rather get rid of them if I can since I don't believe that it's a vig.
As it turns out, both victims seemed to have yura as their top suspects, so you would have ended up with the same conclusion either way, but you didn't even bother to look into pappums. There are only mafia motivations for this.-
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subgenius Goon
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The reason is that the answer only benefits scum. Even if he answers no, it still benefits scum. Whether or not you believe he's clever enough to refuse an answer is irrelevant. You asked a question that would have helped scum decide their NK's if he had answered.bgg1996 wrote:Is there a reason I shouldn't ask the question?
This doesn't strike me as over analyzing a single post. It's just a straight out scummy thing to do.-
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subgenius Goon
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You really can't say there was zero chance, and I still don't understand why you bothered to write such a question at all.bgg1996 wrote:There was zero chance that the question would be answered.
I'm not going to continue this stupid, and completely worthless argument any further.
Unless, maybe, anybody does something either scummy, or extremely stupid.
BTW, knowing the specifics of how a weak doctor works will offer literally no insights into the set up. Even if it worked as magnetic suggested, I would hesitate to use that information to conclude that we have an SK rather than a vig.
Also, when are you going to start scum hunting instead of trying to get the mod to answer questions about the setup? You've said that you suspect everybody who voted for magnetic, and yet you've done literally nothing to generate leads on any of them, instead choosing to complain about the D1 lynch, speculate on set up, and possibly sniff out town power roles. I'm baffled as to why you only have one vote on you.-
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subgenius Goon
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I think you'd better narrow this down, seeing as you've implicated 70 percent of the town.bgg1996 wrote: 2. The reason I am not naming said individuals, is because I wasn't saying "I suspect these people, the people who did this.", I was saying "Doing this is a scummy thing to do". Does that make sense to you?-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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I'll agree that there are likely 2 or 3 scum that voted for magnetic, but it's silly to say that voting for Magnetic was scummy, because obviously there were plenty of townies that did it too.Surprise_Carcinogen wrote:True, but as stated, I consider there to be a very slim chance that this is true. Present, but slim.-
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subgenius Goon
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You said that you are suspicious of the players who voted for magnetic. This statement is useless if you refuse to narrow that list down. Seven people voted for magnetic, and they can't all be scum. I do want you to name some players, and I do want you to make a case for them, because as of now, I have no reason to believe that you're interested in actually finding scum. I'm far more disturbed by your refusal to cite any specific cases than I would be if you posted a case that I didn't fully agree with.bgg1996 wrote:The people that I would be referring to are not unidentified. You can find out who they are whenever you feel like it. The fact that you do not do so makes me think that you want me to say their names, so that you can make a big thing about how those people have nothing scummy about them, and make a case on me for it.
In fact, if we're going to analyze the magnetic wagon, I think it would be just as useful to argue that since it's unlikely that every scum player would have joined the lynch, either you, Regfan, or CKD is probably scum. I have a strong suspicion that it's you.
At this point, I would say Truant and yura-chi. Depending on bgg1996's flip, S_C.maxous wrote:If you had to pick out one or two who would you pick?-
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subgenius Goon
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Alright, I see what you meant now. It's pretty damn irritating when someone would rather be needlessly enigmatic than provide a simple clarification when it's obvious that a few people misunderstood.bgg1996 wrote:Anyway, I didn't specify seven people with that statement. The way it is worded, I only specified two.
Now that I realize you're claiming to find SC and me suspicious (or maybe not, I still don't know... You think I did something scummy, but that doesn't mean you suspect me. Is that right?), I have to wonder why you have been content to continue spending time wondering about setup, complaining about the length of D1, and leading us around in circles by refusing to clarify needlessly vague posts rather than trying to apply pressure to your suspects (or people who did something scummy but aren't suspects?).-
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subgenius Goon
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I didn't intend to convey any certainty that bgg would be lynched anytime soon. After all, it wouldn't make much sense to be cocky about his lynch since I'm still the only vote for him. I just meant to indicate that your consistent defense of bgg would look quite suspicious if he ends up flipping mafia anytime in the future.S_C wrote:
I've been trying to figure out why this statement bothered me. It's the bit I bolded. I dislike the fact that you're talking with a specific confidence that he IS going to flip shortly.Subgenius wrote:At this point, I would say Truant and yura-chi. Depending on bgg1996's flip, S_C.
Also, if the only defense of bgg is that he looks too scummy to actually be scum, I'm quite content with my vote.
Could you explain this?Maxous wrote:That being said Subgenius comment has made me have a bit of a rethink.
I agree with you here about this, at least.S_C wrote:I just reread Andrew(doesn't take long) and I am seriously worried about him.-
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subgenius Goon
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I'm not going to say I agree with Andrew's case, but I think what he's trying to say is that he thinks that you led off D2 with an immediate vote for Yura and no discussion of the lynch in an attempt to avoid scrutiny for hammering. The fact that you hammered isn't necessarily scummy, it's that he thinks you were trying to avoid addressing it at the beginning of today.-
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My opinion of the D1 lynch is that it had to be done, and I don't think there was much benefit to be gained from extending the day. Magnetic absolutely had to be either lynched or force replaced. Also, I'm pissed off that a troll forced us into a situation where we had to lynch the doctor on D1 in a game with two killing sources. That completely sucks.
IMO, we've spent our one policy lynch on magnetic. Assuming we're dealing with an SK, we'll probably be losing two townies each night, and we can't afford to lynch anybody else for any reason other thinking they're scum. Being an unhelpful townie isn't enough. If we mislynch today, we could very easily be dealing with 3 town against 4 scum tomorrow.
As far as my opinion on Andrew... I just don't know. I have trouble reading posters that don't make a lot of sense. My official opinion on Andrew is, "I don't know, and I'm not comfortable lynching someone I'm not pretty sure about in our current situation." If I were to agree to anything resembling a VI policy lynch, Yura would be my pick.-
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subgenius Goon
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Why did you feel it was necessary to mention that you weren't involved in magnetic's lynch?curiouskarmadog wrote:Updating as I go (from page 9)
this comes out of fucking NO WHERE...this reeks of someone(s) thinking I am a threat and being directed to start pushing something on me...why me out of everyone who is left?...I wasnt on the fucking townie lynch....-
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subgenius Goon
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That's a nice script, but one thing I don't understand is why person 1 waited until the end to start (questionably) scum hunting instead of wasting person 2's time by speaking in twisted analogies and parables.bgg1996 wrote:Cute dialogue
Why on earth does it matter at this point? I know you're trying to use this information to confirm the existence of an SK, but knowing the specifics of Magnetic's role is not going to do that. If you want 95% confirmation, all you have to do is look at the night kills. Tclawren makes absolutely no sense as a vig kill, so it must have been an SK. There, question answered. On the off chance I'm wrong, hooray, I have a pleasant surprise.bgg1996 wrote:You expect me to believe that it's a coincidence that Magnetic guessed that there were two killing sources?
Vig or SK is completely irrelevant at this point, particularly because if we mislynch today, an SK would have nearly as much motivation to try to NK a mafia member as a vig would. Even if there is a vig, how is it going to change your play? It shouldn't at all. If you're town, either way you should be hunting scum.
The question of SK or vig concerns mafia more than it concerns town, and I'm pretty worried by the fact that you're still hung up on this issue. I consider it a scum tell both because I feel that it has become a substitute for meaningful scum hunting and because the information you're digging for is more important to mafia than it is to town.-
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subgenius Goon
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Today:
Friday:Truant wrote: I also believe that it's easier to pin down one person's motivations than a group so I decided to analyze the SK's decision over the mafia's decision first when I had little time to analyze everything the way I would like to.
It appears that your reason for focusing on the SK rather than the mafia have changed over the last day. I also notice that you offered justification for not investigating the mafia even though Vollkan never asked for any, perhaps because you've realized that omitting an analysis of the mafia kill was a slip.Truant wrote:I analyzed the SK first to see if there was a good start on eliminating an anti-town NK right off the bat.-
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But don't you see? Bgg didn't think SC and I were suspicious, he just thought we had done suspicious things.Maxous wrote:Have you dropped your suspicions of SC and Subgenius?
I would define a suspicious action as one that would cause an observer to become suspicious of an individual who performed such an action, but bgg1996 appears to have a more nuanced understanding of the word.
I will say that I don't understand why Andrew not posting for a day means new suspects have to be found. I will also say that he has not seemed to put a lot of effort into finding anybody else to suspect. Instead he's continuing to badger the mod for set up clues and to seemingly go out of his way to avoid clarifying his earlier comment about suspecting those who voted for magnetic in clear terms. If anybody still doesn't understand what bgg1996 was saying when he voiced suspicion for those who voted for magnetic after he issued his warning, please tell me. I would be happy to explain it in the interest of not seeing bgg1996 write another crappy analogy to explain an idea that could easily be explained in a simple sentence.-
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Don't say you're going to scum hunt. Just scum hunt. Who do you think is scum right now, and why? It's okay if you're not sure about your reads, just give your very best 2 or 3 guesses and reasons.yura-chi wrote:i think this is starting to get interesting... since everyone's opinions are different were going to have a long day time so that means more time to hunt scum!
Also, I'd like to ask what you think about the source of the second kill last night. Do you think it was a serial killer or vigilante, and why? Why do you think each of the victims was chosen?-
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subgenius Goon
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@Andrew:
I'll repost this request from Vollkan, because you must have missed it:
vollkan wrote: The fact you need to ask this is proof that you are lurking.
Time to issue my tried-and-tested ultimatum: Read up, or replace out
Please give us, in your next post, two sentences minimum on each player telling us your opinion of them.
If you can't or won't, for any reason, do that, then leave.-
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Am I really that hard to read on this?regfan wrote:Sub, who is your strongest two FoS's right now and why?
1)bgg1996:General avoidance of scum hunting, seems more concerned with confirming vig/sk than finding scum, wasting time by refusing to clarify simple statements for no reason, and subjectively, I think he was trying to gain townie cred by arguing to delay magnetic's lynch.
Tie for number 2:
2a)Truant: I feel that he's borderline lurking, I think his case on Yura was too easy and not at all compelling, and I think the fact that he only analyzed the SK kill at the beginning of the day could very well be a scum slip.
2b)Yura-chi: General pattern of waffling on votes and no-content posts that seem intended to appear town-like.-
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@andrew
Truant and Yura are 2a and 2b because I was posting my fos's in order of certainty but I don't have a strong opinion on which of the of them is more likely to be scum. Bgg1996 is my strongest read, though.
Re: Yura and trying to look town
Going back through her ISO, it's not quite as prevalent as I thought, but there are still a few glaring examples:Yura wrote:i think this is starting to get interesting... since everyone's opinions are different were going to have a long day time so that means more time to hunt scum!Yura wrote:You know what think what u guys want but all I'm saying is I'm townie alligned u guys believe what you want....
But going back through her ISO, I'm seeing more attempts at adding content than I first realized. They're not great attempts, but they're there. I'm interested to see who her fos's are, and I'm seeing some things in her response about the vig/sk, but I'll wait until she releases her fos's to talk about them.Yura wrote:ehhh!?!? im dat big of a threat???-
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Pig latin? Clever. The only reason I can imagine for this is that you're trying to get under my skin by continuing to avoid writing concise and direct content. I cannot fathom a pro-town reason for doing this.
To answer your question (even though I suspect that you are fully aware of the answer), It's scummy because scum hunting or doing anything else for the purpose of not appearing scummy is scummy. Town hunts scum because it helps acheive their win condition, not because it makes them look town.-
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@bgg1996
Erm, that quote is talking about not giving up and taking a lynch without defending yourself, which is not the situation you are in at all.
Town players do not scum hunt because it makes them look like a good guy. Town players scum hunt because that is how a town player wins. Scum players scum hunt because it makes them look like town.
Absolutely not true. For example, false claiming a power role might prevent you from getting lynched, but it is not pro-town, because it can result in outing a real power role or taking doctor protections from real power roles. That is not pro-town at all. An individual townie doesn't win by surviving at all costs. He wins by finding scum and getting them lynched.bgg1996 wrote:To a townie, anything to help not get me lynched is PRO-TOWN.
You could probably accomplish the same thing by worrying about whether or not what you're saying is logical and helpful. Town absolutely has an incentive to not appear scummy, but they do this by authentically doing things a townie should be doing, not by going out of their way to do things that will hopefully make other people think he's on the town's side. "I will make this case so that people don't suspect me of being scum," is absolutely not a townie thought process. The townie thought process is "I will make this case, because I think this person might be scum."SC wrote:My problem with what you said at the end there Sub is that I often worry about looking town when I play town. I think carefully about everything I say hoping it's not going to come off as being a scummy thing to do. Because town don't want to be thought of as scum any more then scum do.-
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I'll accept that your rebuttal to my argument is accurate. Defending against accusations is not scummy, so I was wrong to say that anything done for the purpose of not appearing scummy is scummy.bgg1996 wrote:Anyway, you have yet to tell mewhymy argument is BS.
My argument is specifically made against this sentence
"It's scummy because scum hunting or doing anything else for the purpose of not appearing scummy is scummy."
"It's scummy because scum hunting ordoing anything else for the purpose of not appearing scummy is scummy."
"Defending yourself is scummy."
However, I specifically said that you are being scummy if you are scum hunting out of a desire to appear town aligned. So I hope other players will note that you don't appear to disagree with the part of my sentence where I say that scum hunting for the sake of not appearing scummy is scummy, since you did not bold that portion.
tl;dr: I was partly wrong, defending yourself is not scummy, but we both seem to agree that scum hunting to appear townie is scummy. You announced plans to do just that, therefor you were acting scummy.-
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subgenius Goon
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Is anybody else willing to put some more votes on bgg in the hopes that he'll start talking sense? I'm tired of him spewing completely worthless arguments, and I don't think anything is going to change his ways other than some actual heat put on him. Bgg, if you're town, you need to start making yourself an asset pronto. You are very near the point of no return with me.
Please explain why this doesn't mean what I (and apparently maxous) think it means.bgg1996 wrote:I'll make sure to NK you for that statement.
Honestly, I just checked whether or not Jesters are allowed in normals, because bgg is completely off the wall here. BTW, they're not.-
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subgenius Goon
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Believe it or not, I've tried to stay open minded about bgg. He is my top suspect, but I'm willing to change my reads. He has not improved at all since my original suspicions. If anything, he has gotten worse. If he had shown any interest in scum hunting or analyzing cases in anything except the most hairsplittingly semantic terms, I might have moved my attention elsewhere, but with very few exceptions, he hasn't. The longer he does this, the less I can believe he is a town player who is simply off his game.S_C wrote:I'm not sure I like the phrase "point of no return" From Sub. It sounds too much like you're either a) intending to lynch him for being useless, town or no(this is a mistake) or b) intending to keep him even if you think he's scum just for being useful.
At this point, it's reaching the point where the only explanation in my mind is that he's acting so scummy in the belief that nobody would actually believe scum to be so blatant. There is no town motivation in his posts. Most of the time when you see anti-town behavior, you can at least see how the anti-town player is really trying to help, but that is utterly absent in bgg's posts. He is being worse than useless, and not in a way that bad town players are useless. I get the distinct sense that he is being intentionally counterproductive, and there is absolutely no reason for town to purposely be so bad.
Come on man, lets make bgg squirm a bit. I'm sick of his crap. Don't be a slave to your score sheet! Lets get some votes here. We don't have more than two votes on anybody, and that's part of the reason we aren't getting anywhere. Lets do this thing.Vollkan wrote:At the risk of this becoming a bgg-yurachi see-saw, Yura+5
Who else wants in?
If we aren't going to bandwagon bgg, we need to get on someone else. Keeping a bunch of people at L-5 and L-4 isn't working.-
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subgenius Goon
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I've found your scum tells to be pretty solid up to this point, but I don't agree that hypocrisy is a scum tell. If making crappy arguments is a scumtell when bgg does it, then it's also a scum tell when yura does it, but it's not scummy for either of them to say the other is scummy for making poor arguments. If one of them wants to build a case against the other why should he be forced to make his case weaker by omitting the mention of poor arguments?vollkan wrote: 2) Hypocrisy (Ironically, this is a perfect demonstration of what I was arguing earlier about tu quoque. Whilst Yura is completely correct about bgg's useless arguments, it is hypocritical and thus scummy for yura to vote bgg on that basis - even though the reason why yura is voting bgg is actually valid)-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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Here's the thing, though. There are very few, if any, scum tells that town don't engage either due to carelessness or poor play. If you really thought that scum tells are defined as actions that only scum do, then you'd only need to see one of them from a player to conclude that they are definitely scum. Scum tells are useful because we believe they are actions that areVollkan wrote: b) Player X does genuinely believe A to be a scumtell.
b) is, on first glance, consistent with Player X being either town or scum. However, if Player X is town, this simply doesn't make sense - because Player X has a firsthand understanding of how it is that a townie could do A.more likelyto have been performed by scum, a hypocritical town player knows with certainty that his scummy actions were not the result of scum motivations, but he can't say that about any other player, and he shouldn't hesitate to point that scummy action out (although he should probably be prepared to explain his own scummy behavior afterwards).-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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I don't understand why you signed up for this game. Btw, you're ignoring some questions.bgg1996 wrote:People have tried. Tried for many years.
And failed.
You haven't posted in over two days, and you pop in right after your name is mentioned with a promise of giving an update within the next 24 hours? That's bs.CKD wrote:fly under the radar????..ha.
will be giving this game the update treatment in the next 24.strong fos on CKD-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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Both those questions rely on a subjective judgement of how likely an action is to be performed by one alignment or the other. Like it or not, in most circumstances, "more likely" is the best we have to go on. For example, your question, "Can I see this person reasonably doing X action as town?" If the answer is no, the next question has to be, "What chance is there that this person is a townie acting unreasonably?" Because townies act unreasonably all the time. If Yura is town, she would certainly realize that town players can be useless as well, but that doesn't mean that she can't find uselessness generally suspicious or think that bgg's particular type of uselessness is extra suspicious or think that he should be encouraged to explain himself and shape up. You, yourself said that she her reasons for voting bgg were valid. If she's right, she's right. She's still scummy for being useless, but not extra scummy for pointing out uselessness in another player.
Actually, I looked back at post 468, and aside from containing the charge of hypocrisy, which I disagree with, it also contains some serious contradictions. I don't find this scummy necessarily, but it does make me wonder if you drummed up a post to put Yura back at the top of your list with a particular motive in mind.-
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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subgenius Goon
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5 hours is not a very long time in a game that can last months. Believe it or not, I have not checked your posting outside this thread, and I don't really care about it. It's quite possible that you simply don't have time, but I have seen scum coast by using similar methods, so I find it suspicious. You're not on my lynchable list at this point, so don't worry about it too much.CKD wrote:right after = 5 hours???? noted
I posted "24 hours" because I couldnt meeting the deadline of my previous post..I am sure you have noted that I havent posted anywhere on site...i am sure you noted that during the week days I post after a certian time...and I am sure you have been in a postion in a game, where you dont have time to post an fucking giant updating post, but DO have enough time to pop in a sentence or two...-
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subgenius Goon
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If you think that not being in on a townie lynch makes you less suspicious, you are mistaken, and the fact that you would cite your absence from the wagon for the purpose of demonstrating your town status does not reflect well on you. It would be beyond easy for a scum player to avoid a near certain town lynch wagon with the intention of making the exact point you're trying to make.CKD wrote:was making a point, he says my actions were scummy yesterday, yet I wasnt involved in a quick lynch of a townie (this was just one of the many reasons I feel like a scum group to include Regfan feels I am a threat). He came out of the gate swinging at me, I want to know why when this game is chalked full of actual scummy people.-
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subgenius Goon
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