Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Datisi]

that's too much time spent to say "ye your posts r good, ppl need talk more, still wanna murder dunn lol"

you think him being ~calm~ is possibly town!indicative?

[Datisi]

So I've been getting tag teamed by GC and Datisi today. Who is the one orchestrating that in the pt?

neither of us is orchestrating it, we voted you individually before even mentioning you in the hood.

how's your read on baltar doing? anything else going anywhere?

I think there has been a miscommunication, I wasn't planning on rereading vp balter

i wasn't implying you were. i wanted to hear if you have any New thoughts on him. or really on anyone.

[Datisi]

Anyway, I have also spent some time thinking about Dunn. I really don’t think it’s going to flip Scum, and it’s mainly because of the players that were willing to compromise and vote there. And I haven’t found an individual post of Dunn’s I actually scum read. Most of the arguments against Dunn are situational, or from their lack of thread presence. Well, why aren’t we pushing Cookie Monster for those things then?

can you spell out who are those players that are willing to compromise on dunn that make you think he's town?

and it's not pure lack of thread presence. it's the timing of the presence. if someone if lurking, fine, maybe slightly more likely to be scum, i already said that just lurking isn't outside of dunn town meta. but when you pop up after days of not posting to a wagon that is all but guaranteed to go through, that you "defended" earlier but didn't try to convince anyone, to vote someone else and again disappear? then later claim you thought maybe they'd be reevaluating even tho the player literally said they'd be self-hammering? and just by looking at day 2, do you really feel like dunn is trying to solve this game?

Anyway, I’m getting a bit tired of these arguments around my “aggression”, or how my play has been “puzzling”. Unless you’ve played more than 5 games with me, I don’t care for your meta on how I play Town.

saying that you entering the day screaming how there's scum on the wagon, then voting just the people off the wagon is puzzling isn't meta.

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

I may be down for a cookie monster or midway yeet today. I want to take a min to review my fight with duchess once more and reevaluate how I feel about that with some distance.

if this is the result of the meta reeval or whatever, i'd love to hear it.

[Datisi]

ah, gotcha. i just kinda assumed since it was just an unvote and not a different vote, you feel.

[Datisi]

v/la ~24 hours.

just managed to single-handedly lose town a game and my energy for mafia is sapped. please no yeet anyone while i'm gone ok thanks bye.

[Datisi]

ok so somehow that 24 v/la turned into a 2 and a half days v/la also it's 3am right now and my mafia energy is *still* dead but gotta at least try i guess bc time is running out

Cookie Monster’s reaction just on this page would be amazing coming from Scum. It would be fantastic theater from a player that hasn’t completed that many games. I think it’s genuine.

what about it is so amazing to you? also would cookie being an alt affect this opinion?

I actually think that VPB set out to pocket Datisi after a certain while. They first had Datisi as null but once Datisi expressed a TR, VPB has hardened their TR read on Datisi because it’s working out very well for them. That’s a theory.

reading this while hard townreading baltar but also having my heart get shattered two days ago bc of getting hardpocketed like

You’ve encouraged Datisi interminably in their push on Dunn which you yourself of course have tried to carry out.

Datisi, have I encouraged you to tunnel Dunn in anyway?

i didn't get that feeling, at least not specifically with me.

@andres

, could you quote what posts made you think this?

@baltar

, i'd like your comment on 2274. and like, general read on andres rn.

This game is really hard to follow for some reason

don't you mean this game is...

brutally

hard to follow? ok i'll see myself out

ok i had like a thought and i'm not sure i like my dunn vote that much anymore. so first i'm gonna make a 9000 iq assumption that baltar/dunn aren't scum together. ok cool. so the fact that baltar is like, asking dunn to be more active, and dunn is plainly refusing to do that is giving me some sorta town vibes? like there's a Thing spelled out that he can do to have baltar see him in more positive light and he's purposefully not doing that?

2231 from midway is giving me flashbacks back to 2180 when i was calling him out for doing nothing based on meta (i modded a newbie game where he was town and plenty active) and his response was something along the lines of "oh my playstyle changed haha" and he was just a scumfuck lol

other than that i feel like the post is not saying much at all and like
recent posts are promises of content, and lowkey filler while not really explaining his reads
also what i pointed out in 2062

yeah this is fine for now

VOTE: midway

i am also getting more and more open to voting cookie because they have done literally nothing after their first readslist and better to vote out useless slots sooner than later

my laptop is making weird noises
anyway i got distracted multiple times while typing this so it's already past 4am so i'm gonna go get my 6 hours of sleep and after that i'll try to review some stuff about this game

also thx for the pagetop

[Datisi]

Andres, mom, Datsi feel town

my name is 6 letters please it's not that difficult i promise

also you explain any of these?

every time I try and do something

the joke here is that the amount of times this has happened is zero.

cookie if you're town can you please start actually working with us? you've had plenty questions thrown your way.

[Datisi]

i'm skimming back and forth the past few pages and i don't think baltar's vote on italiano is scummy? like i've said it before i'll say it again, when pocketing scum is usually more lowkey than "yep i'm sheeping my townread lol". and like, again assuming baltar/dunn isn't a thing, scum!baltar probably doesn't give a shit which one of dunn/italiano goes. i feel like he'd be more likely to sit on dunn a bit more, then maybe jump to italiano later on for consolidation after i've pushed that wagon myself more. gives him an opportunity to (1) make me pick up more heat for it tomorrow (2) more strongly argue he was trying to get dunn going, even against the italiano wagon. immediately giving dunn up and trying to build momentum w me feels +town to me.

[Datisi]

@mod, dgb is voting midway and andres is voting baltar

[Datisi]

This sorta implies Dunn and I are both scum? I wouldn't wk town Dunn like this as scum imo

no it doesn't? like if the only reason you have for that is "i don't wk dunn like that" then sorry to break itnto you but that explanation is worth nothing

[Datisi]

what are your reads on the other low posters then?

the difference is that i don't have meta on other lower posters that them not having reads / not solving is scum!indicative

[Datisi]

what about it is so amazing to you? also would cookie being an alt affect this opinion?

Do you agree that I was right, now that Cookie Monster has made that incredibly detailed claim? Or no?

i do not. i've seen scum claim bullshit, and i feel like doc is one of favourite scum fakeclaims. the way it was made is horrible, the self-voting + claiming pr screams AtE and survivalism as opposed to... idk, anything genuine.

like i'm not saying it can't come from town, especially knowing there's precedent to that slot being utterly useless in other games, but it gets zero town points from me.

[Datisi]

i didn't get that feeling, at least not specifically with me.

You want to know what I think? I think you’re looking for things that are way too obvious, instead of trying to figure out the subtle ways in which VPB has been pushing you in the wrong direction. And since you naturally don’t trust me I think you’re not going to pay any attention to much of what I say until it becomes really obvious that you’re paying attention to the wrong voices.

andre, i'm constantly reevaluating. if i didn't care about your pov, i wouldn't have asked for it. i told you i didn't get that feeling. i wanna see where you got it.

[Datisi]

Datisi, VPB, and Andres scumteam

So you think I go out of my way to vote my Partner, instead of just voting you? Why? Are you high?

I don't see why not. It also looks like you are setting yourself up to vote me here.

what

you were earlier quoting how andres is bringing up a good point on why we should consider you town

where is andres setting himself up to vote you?

[Datisi]

where is andres setting himself up to vote you?

Gotta admit I was sort of trolling when I said 2340, but part of me viewed it as some sort of shade that Andres could point to when he decides to hammer me.

2340 is my post

what are you talking about

[Datisi]

i do not. i've seen scum claim bullshit, and i feel like doc is one of favourite scum fakeclaims. the way it was made is horrible, the self-voting + claiming pr screams AtE and survivalism as opposed to... idk, anything genuine.

Except Cookie wasn’t close to execution, and your survivalism claim fails simply because Cookie Monster is self-voting when they could actually get run up and executed. Like we can’t have it both ways here. If they’re AtE’ing with their self-vote, then they’re not really acting like they want to live. They could be playing a psychological game to get players to back off from them. But it’s not survivalist on the surface.

except there were mutliple people voting and/or showing interest in them and dgb calling for more votes, and them knowing they had absolutely nothing going for them. and like it's obviously not survivalistic on the surface because "self-voting brings you closer to execution" but is it really never used as a reverse psychology kinda "ok then vote me" thing?? and coupled w claiming pr, which is also something that so very often makes people not wanna vote someone?

[Datisi]

where is andres setting himself up to vote you?

Gotta admit I was sort of trolling when I said 2340, but part of me viewed it as some sort of shade that Andres could point to when he decides to hammer me.

why were you trolling

can you explain why you think scum is more likely to be posting in a slow game like this and why are you suspecting the three of us, beyond "they are posting"?

[Datisi]

ok i missed the pagetop
disregard the middle q
what makes you think scum takes charge / encourages people to vote as opposed to just lurking? like in my exp that's usually what happens

pedit: this is an addition to 2352

[Datisi]

except there were mutliple people voting and/or showing interest in them and dgb calling for more votes

And DGB has pull why? They just replaced in, and haven’t done much of anything. And I clearly backed off of them.

not necessarily but if they're town it's still a town voice encouraging votes. and you backed off them after they claimed, no?

[Datisi]

and like it's obviously not survivalistic on the surface because "self-voting brings you closer to execution" but is it really never used as a reverse psychology kinda "ok then vote me" thing?? and coupled w claiming pr, which is also something that so very often makes people not wanna vote someone?

I literally just wrote that it could be a psychological trick. I’ve already added the caveat you’re using to diminish the point I was trying to make.

And Green Crayons also made a PR claim that made people back off them, and it doesn’t really say anything about their alignment. Yet you don’t have a problem there why? Because you were neighborized?

yeah, i know. but you also wrote "it's not survivalistic on the surface", which made me think you were thinking that's the depth of my thoughts there.

because green has kinda done things this game? and their screaming match with you was the opposite of survivalistic?

[Datisi]

not necessarily but if they're town it's still a town voice encouraging votes. and you backed off them after they claimed, no?

No. Maybe look again.

ok yeah this was a brainfart of my end

[Datisi]

what makes you think scum takes charge / encourages people to vote as opposed to just lurking?

Because scum might fell self-conscious about lurking. I know that you and VPB are generally quite active, so I imagine that it would be hard to lurk as scum, especially in a good position.

i just spent like almost 3 days not posting in this game so

but even running with that argument, i don't see how our current activity is +scum as opposed to nai? unless you're implying that we wouldn't be as active if we were town which like

[Datisi]

VPB being the most likely place that I am wrong.

mind talking about this? earlier in the day you had him as a stronger townread, what's making you shift here?

[Datisi]

hm
it didn't really occur to me that cookie might be town fakeclaiming but if we don't have plans yeeting there today i feel like she should not be clarifying that

pedit: lol

[Datisi]

yes

what does that tell you

[Datisi]

dgb, how much of the game have you read?

[Datisi]

no offense but why is midwaybear still breathing?

[Datisi]

like gets prodded for not playing, first thing back is calling out a dats/andre/baltar scumteam (???) because we're the ones being active (??????)
gets called out for not quite making sense
claims his reads will evolve
get pressured by both me (2363) and baltar (2399) to explain how the hell is he getting to the conclusions he's getting at
upon seeing he's under intent, claims vt, while saying absolutely nothing about anything that's going on and goes back in the shadows

like seriously why are we letting this be

[Datisi]

@dgb why are you voting dunnstral

actually why have you twice now voted someone up, but as soon as they claimed you've switched your vote elsewhere?

[Datisi]

@andres, the only thing that made you change your mind on lotus was the fact you reread baltar's iso and found him scummy, right? can you tell me why you're town on midway and answer my earlier q of where you got the feeling baltar was encouraging me into pushing dunn? like i know you think i'm focusing on the wrong things or whatever so please can you work w me here?

speedskim tells me baltarvandres is a huge distraction that we should not be partaking in right now

but something tells me neither or them are gonna hear it

i am about to leave the house but should be back in an hour or two to sit down and go through it

[Datisi]

Why is midway not full on TR’ing me, asking me for help, instead of trolling me and pushing me as Scum. How is that a sensible way not to get executed, when out of the three people that they identified as Scum, I was the last one sitting outside of their wagon and could have voted for them in a heartbeat with them at E-1?

And unless Dunn and midwaybear are both Scum together, why is midwaybear voting for VPB instead of trying to vote Dunn and survive?

iirc, scum!midway has troubles coming up with reads. like his read on the three of us being scum bc we're active is pure nonsense, and he walked back from it not long after. like i can easily see hm knowing i'm about to latch onto him if he doesn't present *something*, and then he presents the first thing he comes up with, which was like... bad. why is he even voting baltar? because he's actively posting??? i don't know.

also he's not really pushing you as scum? hell he's voting *with* you right now.

[Datisi]

also like i know you said the vt claim doesn't sway you either way but look at the context around it. he's being grilled, his response to pressure is... like let's be real it's awful, but once he realized people aren't buying what he's selling and he's under intent he pops in, naked claims, jumps back into the void. that's not a town mindset. if his thoughts about me/you/baltar being scum were actually yknow genuine, i imagine he'd be in here arguing about it??? except he just disappeared???

[Datisi]

And unless Dunn and midwaybear are both Scum together, why is midwaybear voting for VPB instead of trying to vote Dunn and survive?

bc the dunn wagon sprung to life *after* he claimed? and he hasn't been in thread since that happened? like iirc, at the time he voted baltar, it was looking like a genuinely possible counterwagon, since you were voting there, and cookie was voting there before she decided to lolvote herself?

[Datisi]

And why in the hell is maxwell now having second thoughts about midwaybear? That definitely raised some flags for me. You didn’t find that somewhat suspicious? What has midway done at this point at E-1 that would really change your view of how things are developing?

i don't know if you missed it, but literally my first words today were "hello why is midwaybear still alive". while i didn't call out max by name, i said i think literally nothing midway's done should get him out of being executed today, so i think it's at least implied that i don't think maxwell's vote change makes any sense.

[Datisi]

@Datisi can you comment on VPB’s jarring about-face on Dunn here?

if he's scum, he's making his own life more difficult than it needs to be. like how e a s y would it be for scum!baltar to go "oh look dunn wagon eh this isn't my ideal right now but i was sus of dunn so whatever haha i can vote there". instead he's here arguing for a midway yeet. it doesn't make sense for scum!him, unless baltar/dunn are scum together, and my dude, you're gonna need a lot to sell me on that.

[Datisi]

also he's not really pushing you as scum? hell he's voting *with* you right now.

actually like i wanna go back to this. andres, without looking at midway iso, why is midway voting baltar? ok, now look at his iso. why is he voting baltar? now i'm thinking about this and i feel more and more that the vote is agenda driven. i dunno if he's plain old trying to counterwagon or if he's trying to buddy up to you by encouraging your pet wagon but like

[Datisi]

But think about what that means for a second. Did the Scum really think that the best way to approach the game was to attack the loudest players in the game, instead of say pressuring some of the easier slots to execute? Because let’s get real for a minute. There are much easier targets than VPB or me for an execution.

andres, you can say that midway was attacking the loudest players, but genuinely he's directly attacking baltar and indirectly attacking me - i say that bc of his vote, and my and your read on baltar. like, hear me out. this was the votecount at the time midway jumped in and voted baltar:

midwaybear (5): maxwell, VP Baltar, Datisi, Dunnstral, DrippingGoofball
Cookie Monster (2) Green Crayons, Cookie Monster
Green Crayons (1): Momrangal
VP Baltar (1): Andresvmb

Not Voting (2): midwaybear, RLotus

what else can midway possibly counterwagon here??? people already said they don't want to vote cookie moster. probably the only person that wants to do that is green, and let's be real green isn't that influential. the green crayons wagon is practically dead, the only vote there is mom, which is a leftover vote from a wagon, and it's never going anywhere bc iirc green is her 3rd top townread now or something. what does that leave? the baltar wagon, which he jumps on with ??? reasons. and later on, he shades me and baltar together (2358) on nonsense reasoning.

like you can say his original reason extended to all three of us but he's plainly picked a side, which is attack baltar and discredit me (because if you wanna kill baltar, you cannot ignore me). building a completely new wagon is difficult, surely it's easier to side with what is already there.

[Datisi]

if his thoughts about me/you/baltar being scum were actually yknow genuine, i imagine he'd be in here arguing about it??? except he just disappeared???

Multiple players have utterly failed to do this though. Do you not agree? What is DGB doing, for example? Are their positions genuine? How do we even know? They are not aggressively fighting for anything. Momrangal? They listed their view of the game, and they had Dunn as their top Town, and who did they have as Scum again? Me and maxwell? And where are they? How do we know if those reads are genuine? Because as far as I can tell, they’ve explained their read on maxwell but have completely failed to explain their read on me.

I guess my point is - not everybody playing subpar can be Scum. I have a tremendous amount of trouble differentiating bad from Scum. You could potentially be succumbing to a bit of that here.

i don't think midway and momrangal/dgb are comparable here. midway was on y-1 under intent, where, if scum doesn't think they have good odds of getting out alive, has very good reasons to shut the hell up.

also mom/dgb's absences are non-game-related. mom was v/la, her inactivity is nai. and i have asked mom to explain her reads. dgb is also an oddball, but its absence is nai, but i'm asking it to explain its actions as well. like i know it's sometimes difficult to tell bad from scum but you gotta at least try, and sure while not always is it scum, sometimes shit play is Just Scum.

[Datisi]

There’s no universe in which all those actions are all coming from Scum, and we know some of it came from Town for certain.

So I would just caution against thinking that every player needs to be aggressively be putting their thoughts out there or have a strong presence to be Town.

this was never my point. i never said this. i said why i think specifically midway's bad play / doing nothing at these times is scum!indicative. i've said why i think scum is more likely to be in the more quiet people generally, or why town is more likely to be posting in a game like this. but i was never making the argument that "whoever isn't hyper-aggressive solving the game 24/7 is a scumfuck".

[Datisi]

midway at y-1, with the consensus being on him: *nowehre to be seen*
midway at 3 votes, with multiple people pushing elsewhere: "magically appears*

like

why

are we letting this live

[Datisi]

Nobody else was around when I claimed. You guys can put me at L-1 and I'll still talk lol

within the half an hour after you claimed, there were 4 different people in the thread lol?

[Datisi]

there were at least two questions @ you about your claim that scum is more likely to be posting / that me/baltar are likely scum or whatever it was but ok

also i'm not too interested in discussing this bc scum!you could've easily waited until the thread got quieter

and that's not even the main point i'm making, which is that you weren't solving after being put on intent, naked claimed, and peaced out

pedit: it hasn't been the most active. however i think that is moreso my fault for noping out of this game for 3 days, green was encouraging me to post. or maybe he was annoyed at my absence, whichever interpretation you like

[Datisi]

you weren't solving after being put on intent, naked claimed, and peaced out

1. I haven't been able to make any reads really on Day 2. It doesn't seem like anyone else has been either.
2. This is NAI. Demotivation comes from either alignment. There are countless examples of town naked claiming.
3. I'm here now.

1. oh gee i wonder which alignment isn't able to form reads. also that's blatantly untrue. the majority has put in at least *some* effort.
2. ok cool i don't care about examples. it's not solely about "demotivation". i'm also feeling demotivated. your reads were making no sense. it's never one sole thing. if you're debunking the "but so what i naked claimed, there's examples of town doing that!!" you're missing my point.
3. have something to show for it.

[Datisi]

what else can midway possibly counterwagon here???

Okay but where are midway’s Scum buddies then? I always try to make the basic assumption that the entire Team is not incompetent. If that were the case, we would more easily have found them. So why is VPB the only viable counter wagon at that point?

andre, my skills at preflip is hilariously bad. i don't know. maybe they're among the lurkers, it's hard to tell with so many inactives. i'd bet at least one was voting midway. dunn might be a possible partner, i remember he was defending him at some point. the thing is scum does wacky shit sometimes. go one at the time, because i've very rarely successfully pointed out actual s/s associates prior to either flipping.

[Datisi]

err, i used "pet" there to mean "a wagon that you're pretty much the main/only pusher of". if that's not what that word means there, then my bad.

also while we're talking, i did see that you linked lotus' case on baltar from day one, and come on. that case was bad, i talked about it wayback when.

god i am not emotinally ready to talk about being pocketed ahaha

and like
i remember harumi being my first scumping this game but frankly it was so long ago

pedit: hi dgb why are you voting baltar

[Datisi]

literally nobody knows.

momrangal, could you vote midway? i saw he's also really low on your list, we already have a vt claim there, and i really don't wanna be running up *more* people at this hour.

[Datisi]

I will grant you - there’s Scum on one side of that argument. So what if some of the players are part of the Scum Team, and are making reasonably sounding arguments against a player that just lashes out like VPB has in response to pressure? But then why did almost all of them backtrack? That’s quite astounding to me.

i mean, i don't have much more to tell you than "i don't know". things sometimes don't make sense. like literally less than a week ago i lost a game where 2/3 scum were nothing slots and the day 1 yeet was 7 towns voting for town and the whole game was confusing and a garbage fire. maybe they backtracked because they realized they cannot argue against baltar.

is midway saying that baltar's wagon analysis post is what made him reconsider bc it was trying too hard to be from scum...? but that was posted before he originally voted??

i don't know. maybe they're among the lurkers, it's hard to tell with so many inactives.

I’ve been thinking about this. Who do we have as lurkers this game? I’m guessing Dunn, Duchess/Cookie Monster, and Elements/DGB, right? To end D1, Elements was voting RLotus, Duchess had a vote that had been sitting on VPB for a long time (and they were getting replaced), and Dunn was voting midwaybear. It could very well be that midwaybear is Scum with two of those, and they are the only Scum on the Italiano wagon. That’s not something I’m willing to rule out. But I have already mentioned that I think Cookie Monster is Town and why for instance. Are we looking at a {Dunn, midwaybear, DGB} Scum Team? Possibly? It seems a bit far fetched no?

this again boils down to "fuck preflip". but (1) you think cookie monster is town, and i'm willing to let the claim sit for now because if she's really a doc, i don't wanna be doing scum's job for them and yeeting her when they might shoot her, but i'm far from convinced and (2) scum isn't always obvious. you've said it yourself, the scum team is rarely utterly incompetent. distancing and bussing is a thing. i (and probably a lot of other players here too) cannot effectively point that out early. like i've successfully called out a bussing vote before either flipped once(!!) in my almost two years of playing, and that was because both scum were potatoes. (maybe i'm just a shit player though. that's always a possibility.)

off the top of my head, while i have been very town on battle mage, momrangal could use a revisit. also i'd reread how strong was max's push on midway really. green's intent could maybe be bussing since he did have suspicions on midway earlier but didn't really vote him (iirc, which i might not even be). that'd mean midway was bussing green earlier, and like i'm *not* saying that's what happened, i'm illustrating a point that i don't think that slots in the game, at this stage, can be solved by trying to galaxy brain catch the whole scumteam.

[Datisi]

deadline is like 2 days i think. we're not rushing necessarily but i'm getting sick of this day and i've been told i'm not a fun person when i'm moody.

i think i left you a q at some point, also why is dgb town?

[Datisi]

@momrangal, can you tl;dr me on your reads on dunn, me, and andres?

in reference to 2158

[Datisi]

i believe that was an explanation for her read on me, not you.

i'd definitely like an elaboration on that andres read though, and an answer to whether you read me in any way by anything else.

[Datisi]

ok 1st thing i can confirm another person did get added into the hood. will leave it to green/them to claim it if they want.

I had been in the midst of typing up throughts on every player in the game off the top of my head when that hammer happened, I still think andres + Datisi + DGB are town, if I'm right on those the game isn't

too

terrible.

do you still have what you were typing?

Look here's my thinking. Basically, one of {VPB, Datisi} is practically guaranteed Scum. We have one more mis-execution. VPB is very likely to be execution bait if he's Town, since everything he's pushed for has been dead wrong. And given the arguments VPB has put forth, I put decent odds that it's just Scum. So that's what we should do.

still feel like this is very much a false dichotomy.

ooookay 2599 is a burning pile of trash and here is why:

- that is how i play. that is literally how i play. i probe and ask questions. sometimes those questions don't go anywhere because the responses don't strike my gut either way. and that's fine, i've gotten suspected over that shit before. but here's the thing: why hasn't lotus done some meta research on me to see that? he was suspecting baltar, then he ~did some meta~, figured his behaviour lines up with his town!meta, ok nvm. so why isn't he doing it here?

- "For example, when he was following VPB's votes onto Dunn and then to RTP, even though Datisi kept reitirating that he thought Italiano is scum." you know why i was doing that? (1) because people didn't seem that interested in italiano. i'm not a fool to keep my vote parked in places where i know it's not gonna go anywhere. (2) pressure is used to sort people. votes apply pressure. like i don't have to constantly have my vote on my strongest scumread, especially coupled with (1).

- yeah, i said it's more likely scum are off wagon than on and that i didn't feel like going there atm. then my scumread on midway got stronger bc he started acting the same way he did in his last scumgame where he handvawed my reasons away and then he was scum. i was not letting that slide. i love how my ~airy reason~ wasn't brought up at all yesterday while i was actually pushing midway

VOTE: lotus

also i love how in 2604 lotus is saying how baltar and i are constants on the two misyeets and therefore it's "pretty clear" we should be looked at when he was on italiano d1 and kept putting midway in his scumpool but gave some p weak reasoning to not jump onto him

also very much looking forward to the argument on how i'm not sorting or whatever it was.

This is the particular bit I was rereading and freaking out that I have been getting taken for a ride.

Ah now this comes up? I thought Datisi was your lockTown. What happened?

Midway flipped town

i was wrong. he was acting like a scumfuck and he really reminded me of 2180.

baltar, are you buying into the "there must be scum between the two of us" theory?

andre: what's your point wrt diminishing the claim cookie made? it was a scummy claim. i've twice now seen scum fakeclaim doc to try to get out of shit. and like neither of us actually pushed it.

still think baltar is town. this still feels like his town!meta.
green also feels like town, plus the fact cookie died makes me think he's less likely to be scum.
momrangal is probably town, however i've heard that battle mage's scumgame is actually Not Shit, so should probably look at that to see if his entrance really was out of his scumrange.
andres' entrance today feels really genuine and i feel like he's far too tunnelled. but also getting some vague paranoia he and lotus are coming out today each pushing one of me/baltar.
dgb needs to contribute more, and i've talked about its voting patterns yesterday.
not liking maxwell's unvote from midway for reasons that were ??? to me.
dunnstral has some q's to answer from yesterday, still feel like he could easily be scum.

ok, it's 3am so off to bed in a bit, but should be around for a few still.

[Datisi]

green also feels like town, plus the fact cookie died makes me think he's less likely to be scum

I'm not following this

i hinted in the hood that i'm not exactly trusting cookie's claim if she survives the night. i figured if green!scum cookie!town, that would increase the chance cookie doesn't die. and i think she kinda died.

baltar, are you buying into the "there must be scum between the two of us" theory?

Idk. It has crossed my mind I'm getting duped here. Honestly, I'd think you'd be suspicious of me too.

There's just WRONG here somewhere or we wouldn't have flipped two town.

yeah i get that. and like i feel like i might be wrong because i did just get snowed by a scum that was not acting scummy but you are just not acting scummy. like i don't see it.

what's your current bet, where's the wrong?

[Datisi]

re lotus' 2652:

- what does "hook people into answering questions" even mean? like i demand answers to q's i have in my town games i'm p sure?

- this again is just a mark of how i play. you're rarely gonna see me on the forefront of any push and that's just how it is. i have reads, accusing me of not having them is nonsensical, especially considering you were a strong proponent of "datisi is solving". i play this game by establishing a townblocc and working with it. also, yes, i waited until rtp voted italiano, because guess what? time was running out and we needed a wagon. i'm not gonna start a fresh wagon on italiano if there's no chance of it succeeding. but an influential person i'm townreading is voting there? yeah i'm gonna vote there.

- i mean you're not gonna convince me my own reasoning was weak but my question was why didn't you call it out yesterday if it's so obviously scummy?

- lol are you purposefully trying to twist my reads???
- like what i said was "assume baltar/dunn aren't s/s. baltar's been pushing dunn, then he backed off him, and gave him an obvious hint as to how to appear more town to him. dunn did not do what baltar told him to do. that implies dunn doesn't actually care to look good, which is a trait more often seen in town."
- and what you're spitting at me is "suddenly dunn is town for lurking"

- also again. the aftermath from baltar changing his mind on dunn is what made me rethink too. like ooh it was after baltar changed his mind. yeah exactly lol

re 2654:

- maybe don't make trash pushes? also you obviously don't think omgusing is scum!indicative since you're not pushing anyone else on that list (and one of them flipped town) so is there a point to this post other than throwing shade?

- i mean "my top 4 town were off midway" literally just false lol? every time you started talking about your townreads, you always went in order of andres, me/baltar (1985, 2366) and at the time you gave justification for voting dunn, both me and baltar were on midway??
- also i'm saying it's weak bc in a later post (2481) you tried to justify staying on your dunn wagon but your argument of "scum on wagon" was kinda falling apart?

- don't put words in my mouth i'm not saying it should be ignored. (if you wanna ask, i don't want to boggle my mind with on-wagon off-wagon nonsense bc again i literally just got burned like that bc of a day-1 all-town misyeet wagon and would rather look at the motivation behind the votes.) what i was *actually* saying there that i was getting vague feelings you/andre might be partnered because this feels very much coordinated and if it you manage to convince the town there's 1 scum in two of us, and we're both town, it's game winning for you (tbf that's probably not what's going on, esp as andres is voting mom but it crossed my mind)

re 2656: ah yes because a quick readslist to give the game a sense of where i am rn is the epitome of substance and scumhunting

[Datisi]

ah yes the scumteam is green/datisi/momrangal and we are faking a hood because *checks notes* neighbourizers are like basically ic masons and nobody would ever yeet a neighbourizer and this gambit doesn't out the whole scumteam if green dies at all fuck guys they got us

@dunn

: 2313 from yesterday please

@andre

: how does your momrangal vote align with the fact you seem to be dead certain betting the game on scum in me/vpb

also i should probably explain my thought process on the three picks:
- baltar is the obvious one, i'm still decently town on him, i also had some weird notion that on the off chance he's pocketing me, i could more easily notice than in the hood, and also figured it would be the most fun option
- momrangal is a slot that like, started off really great w battle mage, but keeps falling off and their reads aren't explained that well, and i know battle mage's scumgame is allegedly not utter trash (like jungle oligarchy probably ain't the peak of it) so i thought it would be a good choice for Actual Sorting
- dgb i thought if green picked it, it would get motivated to actually contribute more and talk to us

like idk why andres thinks he's the Most Logical choice but i didn't really consider him at all bc i just don't feel like getting him into the hood would make him more readable to me, and he seems to spew his thoughts into the main thread one way or another, so

(I'm not actually sure if it's datisi but if GC is town then that becomes more likely with the way they were tag team pushing me from their hood yesterday)

hi what are your reads
you seemed to be town on me yesterday

Do you think it is weird you were in the neighborize pool?

Pity choice?

dgb i know the feel of not wanting to play mafia
is there a way to help you out here? can you talk about green/mom?

@momrangal

: can you answer 2722?

[Datisi]

- what does "hook people into answering questions" even mean? like i demand answers to q's i have in my town games i'm p sure?

Not in the games I looked at

well gee, what games *did* you look at then?

i have reads, accusing me of not having them is nonsensical, especially considering you were a strong proponent of "datisi is solving".

I didn't say you don't have reads a I said you aren't pushing them. Playing the background and following town like that is scummy especially when you are a part of the 2 mislims and the RTP wagon and the Cookie Monster wagon.

again, that is literally. how i play town. build a blocc, work with it. also i never voted for cookie monster?

i'm not gonna start a fresh wagon on italiano if there's no chance of it succeeding. but an influential person i'm townreading is voting there? yeah i'm gonna vote there.

That one instance in solitary isn't scummy, but rather it is scummy that most of your votes this game have been like that.

refer to the above. you're calling me scum for my playstyle.

- like what i said was "assume baltar/dunn aren't s/s. baltar's been pushing dunn, then he backed off him, and gave him an obvious hint as to how to appear more town to him. dunn did not do what baltar told him to do. that implies dunn doesn't actually care to look good, which is a trait more often seen in town."
- and what you're spitting at me is "suddenly dunn is town for lurking"

Dunn has been lurking all game. VPB has been calling him scum for lurking all game. It has been pretty obvious that what Dunn should do to make VPB town read him is to stop lurking. Why is it just after VPB started to back off Dunn that you begin to call Dunn town for this? You see how the logic from you doesn't flow here?

because the read wouldn't make sense otherwise. while baltar was scumreading dunn, dunn deciding to keep lurking could be either town who dgaf or scum who's trying to lay low / avoid interactions / whatever. but once baltar showed a sign of reevaluating, not a full townread, but back-off *thinking* unvote, now scum!dunn has incentive to try to get him to keep going down that path and actually start doing something. yet he doesn't. like my point is that scum!dunn is more likely to care about what he looks like and try to capitalize on baltar showing willingness to reevaluate, rather than do it earlier while he's showing no such feelings. that was my read.

- also again. the aftermath from baltar changing his mind on dunn is what made me rethink too. like ooh it was after baltar changed his mind. yeah exactly lol

Ok well it is scummy. Especially since you have been mimicking VPB for a large portion of the game.

no i think it was actually really townie.

- maybe don't make trash pushes? also you obviously don't think omgusing is scum!indicative since you're not pushing anyone else on that list (and one of them flipped town) so is there a point to this post other than throwing shade?

My push on you isn't trash, it is the natural place to look. Your position and VPB's position are scummy based on the flips. The fact that you think my push on you is trash and that you aren't questioning your read on VPB makes you look even more scummy. You don't have a reason to think I am scum other than the fact that I am pushing you (a towny place to push), that is why your vote on me is bad.

Also I am just obvtown at this point

m8 have you looked in the mirror? you've been screaming that italiano was scum on day 1, and midway was very much within your poe. also i'm questioning my read on baltar. and he keeps getting out town. he's putting in effort, his reactions seem natural and the way he played in the last game we were in, the way he was pushing the game yesterday to keep producing content is townie. idgaf about where he was on or off wagon if his thoughts are coming from a genuine place. like why should i be buying the pocketing stories here exactly? also my dude, your reasoning is like. bad. and you're very much not obvtown.

re 2656: ah yes because a quick readslist to give the game a sense of where i am rn is the epitome of substance and scumhunting

You have been giving similar reads to this before

i mean when i try to actually explain my reads (e.g. dunn) that's airy so what can you do

[Datisi]

neighbourizers

Neighbors = / = masons

i know, i was making fun of the "scumteam is faking the hood" claims with that part.

can you talk about green/mom?

They read scum to me, that's all.

that's a start. can you tell me why?

Also, I just badly want Datisi to be town and I'm having a hard time with that.

is there like, anything that you're finding actually scummy about my play or is it just ~*paranoia*~? what do you think about lotus' case?

[Datisi]

"It's not scummy that's just my playstyle." Ok.

m8 have you looked in the mirror? you've been screaming that italiano was scum on day 1, and midway was very much within your poe. also i'm questioning my read on baltar. and he keeps getting out town. he's putting in effort, his reactions seem natural and the way he played in the last game we were in, the way he was pushing the game yesterday to keep producing content is townie. idgaf about where he was on or off wagon if his thoughts are coming from a genuine place. like why should i be buying the pocketing stories here exactly? also my dude, your reasoning is like. bad. and you're very much not obvtown.

You're just wrong about this. You are blatantly scum so whatever

yes. that's literally my playstyle. "oh you're sheepy" "oh you ask questions" i've heard it before.

what am i just wrong about there?

Like Datisi, if you are town and you genuinely think VPB is town, you have to realize that you two are a big force in constantly pushing the game in the wrong direction. You should be looking at the people playing along with the two of you. Not me, who has been actively resisting your pushes. I hard defended RTP, Duchess, vocally opposed midway. The position you are taking is bad. Like, seriously?

This is why I just can not believe you have a solving mindset atm.

i love how the fact you were a huge proponent of scum!italiano on day 1 is left out here. also, saying that i'm not looking at those players is false. i'm trying to interact with them and get stuff out of them. just because my vote is currently on you and i'm forced to reply to the shit you're throwing at me doesn't mean you're the only person i'm looking at? and framing it so is like, not very correct?

[Datisi]

- i mean you're not gonna convince me my own reasoning was weak but my question was why didn't you call it out yesterday if it's so obviously scummy?

Datisi no offense but, I called out your reasoning as weak and pushed you on it multiple times yesterday, and you said “fuck preflip” basically and didn’t relent. No amount of arguing with you would have swayed you, in my experience.

you're missing the point. it's not about whether or not his callout would've swayed me (and i admit it probably wouldn't have), it's about the fact that he didn't do it. he's arguing now that my reasoning is airy and it's obviously scummy. but if it's so obviously scummy, where were you yesterday when i was making those points and pushing midway?

what i was *actually* saying there that i was getting vague feelings you/andre might be partnered because this feels very much coordinated and if it you manage to convince the town there's 1 scum in two of us, and we're both town, it's game winning for you (tbf that's probably not what's going on, esp as andres is voting mom but it crossed my mind)

This is bullshit though. You’re turning the argument RLotus and I actually agree on, and pushing it against us, when fundamentally, we’ve been on a lot of opposite sides of various arguments and you’ve been on the wrong one of them all. You can’t suggest two players are coordinated and Scum because they’ve agreed on a lot of things, and omit the fact that what they’ve been agreeing on is that a lot of the Town executions and flips that have occurred have been of Town. I understand White Knighting is a thing obviously, but just objectively any third party observer would tell you that there’s a much higher chance that one of {You, VPB} is Scum than in {Me, RLotus}. Do I think RLotus is absolutely assured of being Town? No, I don’t. But I’m Town. And I think it’s obvious honestly. And I have the same suspicions RLotus is describing. So I can see the Towny mindset, because it’s exactly mine.

look at it from my perspective. i'm town, and i think baltar is town. scum needs two more misexecutes to win. you've been arguing that there's likely scum in me/vpb, ok fine, you think it's baltar, you've explained your stance there. but all of a sudden, lotus, who was continuously townreading both of us, jumps out screaming how there's scum between the two of us too, and how it's me. do you not see why that dynamic made me raise an eyebrow?

[Datisi]

again, that is literally. how i play town. build a blocc, work with it. also i never voted for cookie monster?

I’ll also make this general point.

Voting isn’t the only way of influencing the game. If Scum was just going around voting everybody who was Town and avoiding their Partners, they would make it too easy for the Town. So nobody does that. I really find this to be obnoxious and an easy way to avoid accountability. You greatly attacked Cookie Monster’s claim, did you not? You can at least be upfront about that.

i did. i don't instantly trust power role claims from scummy slots, sue me.

but you're not looking at the bigger picture here. i never voted cookie, and i instantly said not to actually verify her claim / push her when it came up and agreed to give her a day or so. like attacking the doctor in hindsight doesn't look good, obviously. but why the fuck does scum!me do it? to point attention at myself and how much i think the claim is bad, only to then... nightkill her anyway? so i could make this wifom argument? that's why i'm saying, your "attacking the claim" point is level zero thinking.

I think I want an attempt at a solve from Datisi and VPB. A ranking, something. Something I can use to better understand what sort of universe you’re seeing.

sure. would need to reflect on the game, maybe refresh/check some meta stuff. will try to get it out tonight before going to bed.

[Datisi]

- "For example, when he was following VPB's votes onto Dunn and then to RTP, even though Datisi kept reitirating that he thought Italiano is scum." you know why i was doing that? (1) because people didn't seem that interested in italiano. i'm not a fool to keep my vote parked in places where i know it's not gonna go anywhere. (2) pressure is used to sort people. votes apply pressure. like i don't have to constantly have my vote on my strongest scumread, especially coupled with (1).

Datisi's response here is consistent with his votes. On RTP, he tranparently says he's sheeping me and adds "let's see what happens." That's clearly a pressure vote.

The Dunn vote is less clear since it just says "yeet". I did point out shortly before that the game momentum was really dropping off. That's harder to see when you are looking in hindsight, but I distinctly remember feeling like everyone was just giving up on the game and letting scum just fuck off.

just wanna point out that my dunn vote was indeed kind of a response to 612. the difference was that rtp actually had some physical points against them, while dunn was like... just not there and not engaging. also thought it would be obvious considering my vote came right after your comment.

[Datisi]

is there like, anything that you're finding actually scummy about my play or is it just ~*paranoia*~? what do you think about lotus' case?

Datisi, however, thinks it’s just paranoia but we should continue listening to them because, well, we’re SR’ing their play style and not really their content or something. C’mon now, this is absurd. You’re defending Momrangal who btw went from a SR to screaming Scum to me, and you seem to think that any potential suspicion thrown your way is just Town game throwing or Scum playing tricks. How can you at least not admit some responsibility for the shit situation we’re in right now? I definitely felt you were particularly obstinate yesterday about midway, in a rather nonsensical way. You basically suggested that a rather marginal case you had experienced in a different game applied here, instead of ignoring possibilities and focusing on what was most likely. And you know, at the very core, this is what Scum do. They throw out possibilities to distract and confuse, and stop focusing on the most likely.

that was @baltar, not @the table. i'm not saying it's "just paranoia", like i'm not stupid i see my pushes have flipped town and why that would be suspicious. but i wanted his take on it. and lotus' attack on me is based a lot around my playstyle, and he's conveninetly igonring the points in the game where he was pushing town. i'm not applying the same argument to you. sorry, where am i defending momrangal? also i thought midway was scum. i don't care for preflip at that stage of the game because i cannot read it. also which case are you talking about here? bc the main "case" from that game was an all-town day 1 misyeet, which, midway was on d1 wagon.

[Datisi]

Datisi, why are you confident there were many town on the Italiano wagon?

i'm not confident on it anymore because this game is giving me a headache but i believe it was the way the wagon formed. dead gamestate, at some point it became obvious the wagon was gonna flip. i think scum won't bloody their hands if they don't have to, esp if they have a loud idiot doing their job for them.

[Datisi]

oop i got distracted

agree that maxwell!scum + green!town isn't a combination that's at all likely considering maxwell didn't have to stop the momentum against green earlier, and i'm p sure he wasn't too townread after yesterday either
if green flips town - max is town to me, if max flips red - nuke green

also agree on no massclaim yet

i didn't really mind momrangal's hammer on midway because i stand behind that there was no point dragging the day out when he'd claimed, and once the day's execution is decided, further discussion mainly helps scum. however i dislike the "datisi was telling me to vote" excuse, especially as i'm under fire today.

ok made it to my yesterday's posts

Why why why is this scummy? You think we should ignore the people on both Italiano's and midway's wagon? The fact that you aren't the least bit suspicious of VPB STILL is shocking. This is the natural place to look, this is not a scummy push.

I do agree with this criticism. I don't think it's scummy to be very suspicious of myself and Datisi today. I would be if I was on the otherside.

I don't think it's guaranteed one of us is scum, but it's a reasonable take objectively.

again, this is not what i was saying. read the bottom part of 2809.

I don't see much difference from your opinions yesterday. Where have you re evaluated?

> arguing with you and trying to figure out if your points are bullshit or not
> trying to pull something out of dgb and dunn
> getting momrangal to explain her positions
> "where have you reevaluated?"

i'm not saying it's "just paranoia", like i'm not stupid i see my pushes have flipped town and why that would be suspicious.

Your play does not reflect this whatsoever.

"i understand why people would be looking my way considering my involement with the two town wagons" and "i'm not gonna roll over and die and i will still bite back if i get the feeling someone is shitpushing me" are not mutually exclusive

have you explained what the "hooking people into answering" means?

but you're not looking at the bigger picture here. i never voted cookie, and i instantly said not to actually verify her claim / push her when it came up and agreed to give her a day or so. like attacking the doctor in hindsight doesn't look good, obviously. but why the fuck does scum!me do it? to point attention at myself and how much i think the claim is bad, only to then... nightkill her anyway?

If there was the potential that Cookie get executed during the day, wouldn’t Scum want to take advantage of that? I would argue that’s at least something I would explore as Scum.

yeah sure, scum could attempt to push cookie and try to get the doc executed. ...which brings me back to the fact that as soon as someone said "oh we should verify the claim" and started setting up a push, my reaction was "no let's not do that" (2382)

Interesting that now that you’re being pushed you come out of the woodwork to speak. But when Datisi/RLotus/VPB/Me are killing each other you do nothing to de-escalate.

hm
green, what is your opinion on me/lotus? me/baltar?

I separately had problems with Datisi's midway push, which I think I've resolved after having reviewed twice now & discussed in neighborhood iwth Datisi and mom; but it still has lowered my estimation of him.

so... why did you join my midway's push yesterday? and you said in hindsight it doesn't seem mailicous to you, so why's it lowering your estimation of me?

@dunn, do you have strong opinions on *anything* today
who do you wanna vote?

@Datisi --- what do you think the optimal play of a neighborhood is? And if you had been given the sole choice to pick last night, who would you have neighborized?

green said he didn't have a separate power so i figured the hood is as useful as we make it to be. i think "optimal play" of a created hood is situational, basically what would give the most overall utility. dgb said it's demotivated, maybe the ability for it to post in our hood and talk to us would motivate it to contribute, that's +town regardless of its alignment. momrangal i was starting to have doubts on, i though having her in the hood would help me sort her more closely. and i think you're being town in a way that's far out from 2157, and also i have the most games w you and i feel like we work well together. granted adding you into the hood would be +town because it would motivate *me* to spend more effort in the game rather than a specific utility of reading x person, but. whether a hood is fun or not is a big factor to me bc fun is what motivates me to play this game. given a free choice, i'd add you, no thinking.

[Datisi]

hi dgb why are you voting baltar?

[Datisi]

so... why did you join my midway's push yesterday? and you said in hindsight it doesn't seem mailicious to you, so why's it lowering your estimation of me?

you've got it backwards, i suspected midway before your push.

because midway flipped green

i know you did. but you joined when i was pushing there. therefore you obviously didn't have issues w it or you would've, idk, said something? and *after* midway flipped green, you said you reread and that you don't think my points were malicious. so how tf am i still getting out worse from it?

[Datisi]

if you don't understand how a push against a town is a negative point that i consider as part of the totality of evaluating you, i don't know what to tell you. i don't know if your intentions were pure. just because i didn't think your points were "malicious" (your word that you've chosen for this convo repeatedly, scum don't need to be malicious btw) doesn't mean that they couldn't come from scum

there's 2 types of players on a town yeet - misguided town who didn't know what they were doing, and shitpushing scum who very well knew what they were doing. right, ok. when i ask "do you think my points were malicious" i'm asking whether you think i fall in the latter rather than the former category. if you're town, you obviously agreed midway was scum or else you wouldn't have voted him. and i ask you if you think i was malicious and you say "no", then i take that to mean i wasn't shitpushing midway, i.e. i was genuine in my view of him. so when you come *from that claim* and say "but btw it still sunk my view on you" do you see why i think you might be pulling shit out of you ass?

[Datisi]

like, i'm still town reading you (I've said this, right?) but you being defensive about me having concerns that you were a strong push on a green flip--which is an obvious "whoa that's a thing I should consider" moment--is really thin skinned. what are you worried about?

don't think you did, 2899 doesn't sound like a townread to me. and i'm gonna be defensive because you're apparently sinking me without proper reasoning. you thought midway was scum, you said my points weren't shitpushing. "hurr durr you were on town elim" is level zero. so what exactly are you ~considering~ then? also did you read the lotus case?

[Datisi]

if you don't understand how a push against a town is a negative point that i consider as part of the totality of evaluating you, i don't know what to tell you. i don't know if your intentions were pure. just because i didn't think your points were "malicious" (your word that you've chosen for this convo repeatedly, scum don't need to be malicious btw) doesn't mean that they couldn't come from scum

there's 2 types of players on a town yeet - misguided town who didn't know what they were doing, and shitpushing scum who very well knew what they were doing. right, ok. when i ask "do you think my points were malicious" i'm asking whether you think i fall in the latter rather than the former category. if you're town, you obviously agreed midway was scum or else you wouldn't have voted him. and i ask you if you think i was malicious and you say "no", then i take that to mean i wasn't shitpushing midway, i.e. i was genuine in my view of him. so when you come *from that claim* and say "but btw it still sunk my view on you" do you see why i think you might be pulling shit out of you ass?

this is such a simplified view of scum play that it's parody

lol sorry?

like, i'm still town reading you (I've said this, right?) but you being defensive about me having concerns that you were a strong push on a green flip--which is an obvious "whoa that's a thing I should consider" moment--is really thin skinned. what are you worried about?

don't think you did, 2899 doesn't sound like a townread to me. and i'm gonna be defensive because you're apparently sinking me without proper reasoning. you thought midway was scum, you said my points weren't shitpushing.

i guess i didn't explicitly say "i'm still reading you town." but my agreement in the neighborhood that i don't think your push on midway was "malicious" but me still voicing some concern with the ultimate push i think can be deduced that I'm still reading you as town but just not as strongly before

"hurr durr you were on town elim" is level zero.

Thank you for defending me against Andres' and Baltar's fake reasoning.

so what exactly are you ~considering~ then? also did you read the lotus case?

are you serious?

- ok. my problem is that you said you didn't think the push is malicious (i.e. coming from scum) but you are still having problems with it for ??? reasons

- that's not their only reasoning, don't drag me into this like that.

- yes. yes i'm serious. if you don't think the push is malicious then there's no reason to suspect me over it. yet you're *anyway* saying that you suspect em over it because again, "midway flipped town". so what the fuck are you considering then?

[Datisi]

lol sorry?

You really think scum have only one mode of mis elim? shit posting?

read the post again. i said shitpushing. that's the only way scum can push town, because they *know* what they're saying is wrong.

[Datisi]

- yes. yes i'm serious. if you don't think the push is malicious then there's no reason to suspect me over it. yet you're *anyway* saying that you suspect em over it because again, "midway flipped town". so what the fuck are you considering then?

Oh I thought you were asking for my thoughts on who else to push for today, which both Andres and Baltar have asked and been answered.

Scum can push a mis elim without being shot posting about it. Town do anti town or suspicious stuff. Scum can identify it and exploit it. That makes their reasoning solid and not malicious but still from a scum mindset.

So no, just bc you didn’t push bad reasoning on midway doesn’t mean you’re vote on him doesn’t get factored in. You (and everyone else on the wagon) will have it as part of the totality of the circumstances analysis.

i mean i disagree about scum's reasoning not always being "malicious" because they're still *knowingly pushing town* but maybe this is a talking-past-each-other case. i'll ask a different q: do you think i was genuine in what i was pushing?

[Datisi]

In post 2822, RLotus wrote:
I don't see much difference from your opinions yesterday. Where have you re evaluated?

> arguing with you and trying to figure out if your points are bullshit or not
> trying to pull something out of dgb and dunn
> getting momrangal to explain her positions
> "where have you reevaluated?"

So you are completely wrong the past 2 days and you say hm I will poke and prod around. As opposed to, I don't know, looking at how the game has gone and trying to solve the game and find where you went wrong. Get out of here

My point is self evident and yet you keep being dense in your responses to me.

yes, exactly! because guess what! for me, reading someone like dunn or dgb will be miles easier if they start producing content now, as opposed to me combing through the early game, trying to reverse engineer their alignment by making guesses about the gamestate and others' alignments, especially when we have *no flipped scum yet*! wild!

[Datisi]

ok here's like, my problem here. lotus is apparently dead set on me being scum, saying my scumminess is apparent or whatever. (the last votecount seems to disagree w that but ok.) and he said baltar's one of his strong towns. ok. so by his perspective, i'm scum pocketing baltar, and you'd think his priority here, if he wants to see me get executed, is to make baltar see the light. *he's not doing that.*

i asked him about which games specifically did he meta, no response. how exactly is my play similar-to-scumgames here, no response. ok, you can argue that he doesn't wanna talk w ~blatant scum~. but other people, his townreads, are asking that too! a while ago, andres asked him to provide a more detailed comparison between my/baltar's solving (2642), did that happen? no not really, just his continuous jabs that whatever i'm doing today is not a solving mindset. baltar asked him to explain the "hook people" thing (2814), did that happen? nope, he just trailed off talking about green and momrangal, to then circle back to throw more baseless shade at me.

how is this town who's dead set on someone else being scum? he's vote parked me but, other than weak shade here and there, he doesn't seem that concerned with making me eat rope or stopping people from getting pocketed by me.

[Datisi]

I'm especially interested to hear people's thoughts on those two Elements wagons from D1. That feels like the biggest thing I didn't really know before writing all this out.

spitballing, i'd say there's scum on ele, regardless of their own alignment. if they're town, there probably was scum on them somewhere, while if they're scum, i doubt they'd not be getting a distancing/bus vote at some point, especially since ele is kinda yeet-baity and prone to getting yeeted. i don't know if the wagon means much for ele's alignment, though.

if ele is scum, most likely scum on that wagon being lotus or dunn? dunn wasn't doing much to push it, and lotus' hop on was weird (after he proclaimed other people to be scum) and he jumped to italiano as soon as there was momentum there. if town, maaaaybe also battle mage? idk.

looking forward, elements and lotus were the first ones to jump off dunn on sod2? :thonk: does that make sense?

god i fucking hate vca

[Datisi]

#3000

also i was talking w georgebailey yesterday and in conversation got reminded of 2157, so i went to reread some parts of that game. and it kinda strengthened my townread on both baltar and andres? even tho i considered baltar town there (due to my own mechanical fuckups) i was feeling uneasy enough about him that i did not want to follow his vote, and i don't feel any such uneasiness here. as for andres, i got reminded of something that hellbooks told me in mason chat, along the lines of "andres is trying so hard to prove he's town here that i'm starting to trust him", and i think it mirrors his behaviour this game. maybe i'm a sucker for self-meta "i cannot play scum like this".

[Datisi]

@green, have you explained why lotus is obvtown iyo?

[Datisi]

@Datisi @maxwell I think this needs to be the vote today. I have a solve in mind and this just fits.

can we hear it?

[Datisi]

i mean i disagree about maxwell being scum without green bc i don't see why scum!him jumps out to stop the momentum unless that's his own partner. the rest of your post seems correct.

i'm trying to think why i was decently town on green before, it was his play around italiano wagon d1 being kinda needlessly shitty as scum? and his argument against you yesterday? does that offset the rest of his play enough...

my *other* problem is that green might be a town power role, and i'm of the thought if nobody else claims pr, he could be clear. however, considering i just talked about the game where i cleared scum off faulty mech like that, i should probably shut the fuck up.

pedit: this is a response to 3006.

[Datisi]

yeah ok. you sheeped me yesterday, i fucked up. i think you're town, i'll sheep you on this.

VOTE: green

i believe y-1.

[Datisi]

no, i agree the power of making hoods isn't mechanically useful. i'm saying if nobody else claimed pr, green would become an ic (because without him the town is too weak), and i don't think yeeting ic's is a good town strategy. however, i don't have nearly enough confidence in "if no other pr claims, green is clear", because again, 2157 haunts my dreams.

[Datisi]

probably. i'd have to relook at the attemtp at the cfd against maxwell, becuase if memory serves me, it was me + ele, then both of us jumped off, *then* green jumped on, which doesn't strike me as particularly clearing for maxwell, but i might be misremembering, and that's something to look at after we know green's flip anyway.

pedit: i didn't see a note saying multitasking is enabled by default this game, so scum!green would have to be a multitasking neighbourizer for him to be able to perform both actions. if he is that and he did do both, a potential tracker would see him visit both, and that would be a hard guilty p much.

[Datisi]

VOTE: maxwell want to trust my gut

Prefer this over VD and elements atm

So I can’t compel anyone with the maxwell flash wagon hunh?

Here.

italiano was on 5 votes already at that time, and imo green didn't attempt to present very convincing arguments for voting maxwell.

eh. if maxwell continues to live, hopefully massclaim shines light on his alignment.

[Datisi]

lotus did come out the gate pretty certain on mom being scum, no? and he didn't falter on it, but also never showed any support to max with a mom wagon. if it turns out i got roped into a 2-scum neighborhood, i'm gonna be pissed lol

@baltar, kinda, but i don't think it's as strong as i first thought. i had said during n2 that i'm still suspicious of cookie despite her claim. now, had cookie lived, and green voted there expecting me to follow him, it'd have been a ~decent indicator that green is scum imo. however, the fact that cookie died anyway isn't clearing for him i don't think? she was a doc after all, maybe scum were afraid to push her, maybe they thought even with my support they couldn't have gotten the yeet through. there's too many assumptions for this to be a strong point against scum!green.

[Datisi]

max probably shouldn't claim, but leave it up to him to judge the situation i guess.

He's doing it again, I can't believe he keeps getting away with it. So obnoxious

what is the *it*?

[Datisi]

"datisi isn't reevaluating!!"
"ok so i think andres is town, he has a point that green isn't as towny as i thought, him flipping would help solve some other slots and also he has bad associates with my other scumread"
"datisi is just changing his reads to fit baltar's!!"

[Datisi]

yes you did say that multiple times. and i responded how that's simply not how i work, and i'm not going to throw my *entire* gameview straight out the window (no matter how many times you insist i "should"), and that i am reevaluating except you don't agree with it being genuine or whatever

i feel compelled to point out it was after andres, not after baltar. but anyway. sure. i'm rarely the starter of wagons. ok. that does not make me scum.

[Datisi]

i'm rarely the starter of wagons.

Just here or in general?

in general. if i have a really strong read or i believe the Game Situation calls for it, i might try to form something new. but i'm more of a "find town, work along them" kinda guy.

pedit: no parting reads? no calling for someone's head after your flip?

[Datisi]

i mean to be fair, even if he were a full neighbourizer, is that really A Threat to scum?

[Datisi]

okay so i saw andres' request just as i was going to bed and since i have a busy as fk day today i set my alarm an hour earlier to be able to get to that. i hope y'all appreciate what i do for this game

so individual reads, ordered vaguely in the order of town > scum:

baltar/andres

- do i need to make up more reasons why these two are town to me? like i don't see them having a red role pm this game.

baltar is playing transparently townie. i don't think he encourages activity yesterday as scum. he's been plenty active, and his activity is *good* every time he posts. idk if i said it before, but i don't think scum goes "ok i'm sheeping datisi lol" on d1 like that. his responses to pressure are townie. also standing his ground on midway, in response to a growing dunn wagon that he could've easily hopped on as scum under the excuse of "well i suspected dunn earlier too so not my fav but wtv", have him flip green (bc again i'm assuming they're not s/s), then attack midway the next day.

andres is a similar story, except it's mostly his day 3 that sealed it to me. he is right that he does not have to play this way as scum. you can feel the effort he's putting into trying to solve. i didn't love eod1 where he was shading me for my play around italiano, but again, he did not follow up on that all. so why tf make those posts? he didn't have to argue as hard as he did for midway, and his play today falls exactly in line with town who is pissed at yesterday's execution. if this is powerwolfing, then fuck me lol

also also meta that i know of both of them (andres pls don't yell at me) checks out too. like, i'm probably reconsidering these only if i end up in a final 3 with both of them. but also i think if we get to that point, the game will have been lost long before that.

maxwell

- i said it yesterday that i did not love his change of vote from midway onto dunn, because i genuinely did not see how those posts made him change his mind, and i thought it could've been trying to get up dunn to claim / swing the exe onto dunn, then potentially come back to midway later on. and the rest of his game has been *fine*, but also really not impressive. but but but! i stand behind what i said earlier, i really *do not think* that scum locks themself into a power role claim in order to stave pressure off a townie, and a claimed power role at that. so, i'm not considering maxwell unless (1) green flips red (haha) (2) maxwell continues to live as a claimed power role (3) there's something fishy happening in massclaim.

momrangal

- in a vacuum, i do not like this slot anymore. the read on andres is kinda... meh, tunneling someone is an easy way to look busy as scum, and she doesn't seem to have a consistent gameview that ~makes sense~. like, the "who should scum be from my pov then!?" feels like an argument coming from scum who's struggling to figure out their own reads and is getting defensive about it. also i do not subscribe to the emotion argument, because i've been burned too many times bc of scum who shows a glimpse of emotion and i immediately start thinking they're town. however, the question is, *what* is she doing today as scum? tunneling andres, who didn't have much chance of getting executed anyway? blocking off a possible dgb/dunn push? unless she's protecting a partner there, it does not make sense for scum to do that. if there were significant pressure on either of those today, then i'd be more inclined to call this white-knighting, but... there hasn't been.

dunn

- ok this slot is a mess and i'll probably be trying to solve it by other flips / massclaim. i see some vague things that make me thing town (similarly to momrangal, what the fuck is he doing if he's scum here, he obviously gives zero shits, also stuff), and that make me think scum (end of day 1's posturing around italiano/midway), but i don't think i have enough to slot it either way.

green

- there were a few things that rang townie to me. namely, his play around italiano (it felt more nuanced than dunn's, and there were posts on italiano that felt *unneccesary* to make as scum). *however* i do agree his responses to pressure haven't been great, and the fact that he kept lurking while there was a shitfight, but jumped in to defend himself as soon as the pressure started turning on him is not a good look. also looking back, something rings off about him claiming to be scum on andres, but not really attempting to help mom out in that push, and was kinda staying out of that. also i do not like his read on me but maybe i'm being egoistical who knows

dgb

- this one is another mess. in retrospect, elements did ring scummy a couple of times to me (namely eod1 was a weird play around italiano, their point on cookie was weird and i don't think we ever got an answer to what duchess' reads post was cookie apparently imitating, bc i did not find it, and the dropout of the game isn't great), and dgb kinda... does not improve the slot. the thing still i hate the most is the apparent wagon hoping right after a slot claims (did it with cookie, then with midway). and while i believe it on being burned out from mafia, i think that is overall nai (as it's a site-wide thing), and the actions it did do in the game aren't townie, and can be excused from guilt that way.

lotus

- i've talked about this already. i do not think his push on me today comes from *convinced town who is trying to get his scumread executed*, because he consistently failed to properly explain important parts of his push (how has my solving throughout the game apparently been fake, esp as he was townreading me for it up until today, what tf does hooking people into answering mean), refused to say which of my games did he apparently look at, didn't seem to care that his hard town looked at his case on me, and came away with "idk datisi still town tho". also he was undermining his own wrong pushes/reads on town, while hyping up mine.

ok, where does that leave us?

my preference for yeeting is bottom up. obviously i see i'm not getting that today. i'm fine w green eating the yeet.

if green were to flip town: scum is 3 out of {momrangal, dgb, dunn, lotus}. off the top of my head, i'm not sure who the town in there would be, and would hope massclaim would help us out here. looking back at vc's that baltar posted earlier... i'm torn between the last town being dgb or lotus. dunn is like... poe, and he did have a bad vote on green on sod2, idk lol. mom also had a weird-ish vote on green on d2. i remember elements' eod1 being kinda weird for scum if they're not partnered with green, as they were refusing to vote for him even as their wagon was building. lotus i would have to reset on again bc he did defend green consistently.

if green were to flip red: partners are most likely lotus > dgb > momrangal > dunn imo. max is... there somewhere, he would have to be looked at through massclaim because locking yourself in a power role claim like he did is pretty bold as scum. i don't think eod1 clears him, as green jumped on his wagon when it was utterly dead (me and ele had already jumped off, italiano was on 5). but this is neither here nor there.

ok my class started half an hour ago and i should prob pay attention to that properly now

[Datisi]

lotus: i've already responded to your case against me earlier. and it's not about them being the core of your case or not, it's about those tidbits being things i think are more likely to come from scum. re "why should i care", is that a serious question lol? why town!you should care about the fact that your hard towns are still townreading the player you're sure is scum and who you're apparently trying to get yeeted?

[Datisi]

Someone hammer

VOTE: green

oh wow look i have hammered green would you like to tell us your alignment before the moderator comes and locks the thread and flips you

[Datisi]

maybe i'll Actually Effort and go through green's associates with people

maybe i'll lazily tunnel lotus

the day is full of possibilites

VOTE: lotus

[Datisi]

Datisi! How good did it feel when GC flipped?

Also, should we speed yeet Lotus?

it was a very mixed feeling of "heck yeah we got one" and "god dammit the hood was nothing but a lie"

my heart is telling me it would be funny as shit, but realistically we probably shouldn't

[Datisi]

it was a very mixed feeling of "heck yeah we got one" and "god dammit the hood was nothing but a lie"

Anything we can glean from the hood? What did Mom day overnight?

we did talk a bit, but not much, mostly because i spent the first 24 hours of the night phase staying up all night working on a project i procrastinated on, taking a test on that project, then sleeping for 15 hours. nothing that heavily pinged me one way or another was said, though.

i'm about to leave the house, but after i come back i'll go though the hood again and point out if there's anything spicey. tho gotta say, even mom came around on andres, so.

[Datisi]

+1

@dgb, who is scum?

[Datisi]

some snippets from the hood:

- early on on d2, green told me he's suspicious of max, dunn, and duchess, except duchess is kinda poe so he's not 100% there. then he questioned me about baltar's 1741 bc he apparently thought it was tmi about italiano's flip

- also pretty shortly into the hood (after i requested) he claimed that he had a modifier, but not a separate power

- then something about max being scum bc max was apparently trying to stay on rtp's good side? which i called out as weird bc "rtp just got killed, what are you talking about", but it seemed to utterly insane to me that scum would fake a thought process like that

- i asked him about andres, he said he thought andres is town, but that he also doesn't have much thought on andres' push on him

- i said that i didn't like neither midway or dunn, which he didn't have a problem egging on on

- huh, i mention being vary of the counterwagon that's building on baltar, tbh i don't even remember anymore when this happened, should prob look at that at some point

- green mentions he's actually thinking if i'm pocketing him and is waiting for another person to get added into the hood before calling me Solid town

- green cites 2128 as an example of andres' game approach being open thoughtful, but that he thinks he's on the wrong track. i argue how that post gave me iioa-y vibes and that i wouldn't yet townbin it, but also that the points in that post aren't necessarily bad. green argued that the him/elements is confbias, how there being scum in me/baltar/lotus doesn't make sense (i argued that i thought it was if dunn!green, which seemed a reasonable read to me), and that andres is discounting the possiblity of green/duchess being t/t for no reason.

- then green calls me agreeable but also starts flirting with me

- says dunn's wagon collapsing is sus and also is back on duchess being scum

- asks me about baltar's 2284, whether baltar's referring to green's suspicion of midway or whether he was thinking of it himself separately. after i say "have you thought about asking baltar instead of me", and i ask him why did he ask me that. he tells me to answer first. after i say that i do not know because i am not a mind reader, he said he had a thought that maybe me and baltar were more than just ~vibing~.

- starts talking shit about melons. after i say melons are delicious, he threatens to kick me out of the hood.

n2 starts around here

- asks me about baltar again, the fact that 4 different people were saying he's sus, and about his wagon analysis, says he's ~neutral on andres and that he isn't sure, says he thinks dgb is townier than elements, and asks me if i wanna make any comments about my pushing midway.

- asks me if i still wanna yeet on d1 wagon, and argues that dgb is townier bc "i'm dissociating from mafia" is a townie post bc it's sitewide stance(?), and that the votes around midway counterwagons mean it wasn't trying to save a buddy nor were they trying to get towncred

- doesn't answer my question on if he thought my posts on midway were malicious, shuts down my concerns that the "i'm shot from mafia" isn't ai because it's obviously oog, and my concern of "dgb could've been trying to get claims" with "was its vote really a pressure point on that"

d3 starts here

- green immediately asks what mom thinks of my midway push, she says she doesn't. mom says she's suspicious of andre (he's not reconsidering his reads) and that she's town on dgb (no agenda)

- green agrees andres is sus, he was fine w him until near the end of d2, and his play on d3 wasn't good, but maybe bc andres was tunnelled on him

- green says he reread and my push on midway wasn't malicious, asks me about the pocketing comments i made. i mention the game i had lost a bit earlier due to scum pocketing the everliving shit out of me, but i say that i still didn't see baltar doing that. ask them what they think, green says he thought baltar (along with andres) was less town by the end of d3.

- there was also some roles stuff on d3 which i'm not sure if there's a point in hiding, since green most likely retold his buddies as soon as it was said

n3 starts here

- some [stuff] i'm not sure should be outed since if mom's town, scum doesn't have access to it, we got to andres/dunn being probtown, she also said she thought max was town while i wasn't ready to clear him yet just for the role soft, but guess that's not relevant anymore

there were a lot of pedits while i was typing this. i gotta go for now, be back at some point.

[Datisi]

Fatisi

[Datisi]

Kind of just reinforces my townbloc thinking already. GC seems to bring up Elements/DGB a reasonable amount, but I can't tell from those comments if he's trying to push there or get you to town read that slot.

Seems obvious to me he was trying to get you to change your read on me though.

i ctrl+f'ed green hood iso for elements/dgb again, and the only times green directly mentioned their slot is (1) when arguing how andres' green/ele read in 2128 is confbiased (2) that elements walked away from the you/duchess fight looking somewhat townier (3) the defense of dgb on n2/d3. (i'm trying to translate this as faithfully as i can without eating a modkill.) frankly i have no clue if this itself is supposed to be +town or +scum, part of me is saying that the hood before n3 is just wifom garbage central now.

and while i do agree that it looks like green was trying to undermine you in my eyes (and andres to a lesser degree), those reads... don't exactly help me right now.

looking at my 3278 again, i do start wondering if mom/green could be s/s since they were both arguing andres is suspicious on d3. but mom did express that read on d2 already and could've been hooded because of that...

a while back, i designed a game with a hood. the player that randed town neighbour told me that they always get anxious about hoods, and that hoods are there not for the player enjoyment, but for the mod enjoyment. and you know, i think i'm feeling those words right now lol

[Datisi]

thinking Andres and Dunn

tbd on (Baltar, Datisi). Maybe one of them. I separately had problems with Datisi's midway push, which I think I've resolved after having reviewed twice now & discussed in neighborhood iwth Datisi and mom; but it still has lowered my estimation of him. i need to read rather than skim Lotus's case.

If not (Baltar, Datisi), maybe maxwell but his claim might clear him.

I think Lotus, DBG, mom are town.

UNVOTE:

Vote is still on GC in spirit. I want to hear from Lotus and Dunn before we end this day.

I'm still fine with a GC vote

Distancy vibes, my best guess is Dunn, I really wouldn't lock him town at the very least

like. my problem with this is that lotus is taking the very recent posts between green/dunn and calling them distancing. like, even yesterday (3107) the earliest post they mentioned wrt distancing was 2302. and (as andres just so happened to quote as i'm typing this, thanks andres) for those two to be partnered, the "distancing" must've started way waaaay back.

but lotus isn't looking at that, he's looking at the most recent posts that look a bit off, and calling that ~distancing~, while ignoring this whole game worth of votes/scumreads. like ???

[Datisi]

Anyone who implied that GC was town by virtue of his role is suspect.

Anyone in the neighborhood who was not wary of GC is suspect.

This is more important.

did my recap of the hood events influence this in any way?

[Datisi]

thinking back to that part of the game, not sure that's actually scum!indicative for dunn. iirc, green was pretty open about wanting to yeet dunn in the main thread, and i was tunnelled on dunn myself for a good part of day 2.

do you have thoughts what barely-mentioning-in-hood means for lotus/mom?

[Datisi]

i started looking at baltar's colored vcs and realized that it tells me almost nothing without the context around the votes, and that i do not have the energy to go through that right now. this is like, a note to myself to do that when i wake up tomorrow. don't speedyeet anyone while i'm gone k thx.

[Datisi]

me: please don't speedyeet while i'm gone
y'all:

dgb, why did you hammer?

[Datisi]

yeah. as does scum. you claimed vt while green was still alive.

also i'm vt.

[Datisi]

Datisi, who do you think we should flip today?

gun-to-head, right now i'm most confident that dgb flips red. however, i want to see a certain event happen (or not happen) before anything else. i'll let you know.

@dgb, how serious is 3369?

[Datisi]

lmfao alright then, guess i got my answer to 3370

i don't think i'm ever voting baltar over dgb here at this point (will hold out so no self-hammers, if someone still wants to say something)

anyway, what i was talking about in that post. dgb/mom was my gun-to-head team, but obviously i know i might be wrong. i saw that mom (1) claimed to be very town on me and (2) said that vpb/dunn are confirmed not partners. should from that follow that mom should automatically vote dgb, and if she doesn't to ask why. and dgb was kinda calling mom scum for like the whole game, so to also see where it lands.

i think? they're partners? like mom was obviously throwing shade at dgb in 3372 (in case they need to get on the wagon) but who would wanna vote their partner. dgb is voting baltar on the grounds of... townreading him. and mom was also implying baltar is scum earlier so like. idk. feels like keeping both town-voting and bussing options open.

[Datisi]

":/" is probably the only response i have to that

like if those words are genuine (and i have a feeling they at least partly are regardless of your alignment) i'm sorry you feel that way but i cannot take ate as ai bc i've been burned too many times :/ (and i feel like this otherwise isn't a conversation for right now)

like i'm sorry i just don't see it? i don't see baltar's play through *this whole game* coming from scum. i've already outlined why your slot doesn't Look Good to me. and there's some weird interactions btwn ele/green that like. all of that cannot be offset with "vp is alive bc he is scum!!" when we've had 2 tprs, and a player who was arguably conf-town, get shot, and "i would've gotten bussed by now" when you weren't even that widely suspected until like, arguably-but-not-really yesterday.

and like idk what you were doing with the voting last night but all of them seemed p short lived and/or with you *openly* saying you're refreshing like mad. like what is this exactly supposed to prove?

agh

like if you have actual reasons why vp is scum i will read them. but "he's still alive" is just... not it.

[Datisi]

ok, i just started skimming through baltar's iso again, and like. i don't see it. i don't. i've reread my earlier reads on those slots and i think they still hold up. and last time i was in this situation i dragged out the vote for a week before doing what i wanted to do at the start, and i don't wanna make myself go through that torture again for nothing. and if i'm wrong... another one on the list i guess.

VOTE: dgb

baltar, did i just throw?

[Datisi]

ftr, if you're trolling me here i'm gonna be mad

assuming you're not, aight. fast night pls.

[Datisi]

maybe we can call a truce for the night and only talk about things unrelaled to the game lol

pedit: hm?

[Datisi]

yeah, town's main sources of power just kinda... died.

that said, this game took 5 years off my life jesus christ

[Datisi]

Lol wtf. Why didn't you both just hammer me?

after 2169, i have a crippling fear of losing after quickhammering in 5p. and i was *not* buying this town only having 3 power roles, with us having had a neighbourizer, who's generally known as a decently strong scum pr.

[Datisi]

that neighbourhood during day 2 is so funny to me
two scumfucks alone doing theater

[Datisi]

@mod

, thank you for the game! the setup was... refreshing, and your modding was great!

i've got no redactions in the scum or hood pt, and feel free to open my notes pt as well.

[Datisi]

Fucking andres and the dunn hate! Even I talked myself out of it after awhile dammit.

loool you have no idea how much i was panicking late day 2 when the wagons started shifting from midway onto dunn, with neither me or green being positioned to bus, and knowing that at any time your old scumread of dunn could've showed up

[Datisi]

bulge!! ahaha are you serious

[Datisi]

there was a reason why you were the only choice for the nightkill last night haha

[Datisi]

I even drafted a post which I put on the Dead PT before reading any spoilers if you want to look at it haha

i did read it! it was so spot on and i was actually laughing the whole way through because the description of my scumplay was so correct! because this game was *very* much "by any means necessary, brute force town misyeets and protect my partners" for me, especially d1 and d2

I will say - I wasn’t expecting the extent of the distancing. I always look for some. But I think that was masterfully done here and it’s a good lesson for future games.

that kinda quickly became the plan - with me and green being distanced by virute of ~the hood~, and both of us pushing the shit out of dunn, whichever flipped first would've left confusing enough trails.

[Datisi]

who's idea was it to neighborize the partner first

lol i threw it out there in the "pregame strategy brainstorming" stage and green was like "...yo"