Marketplace Mafia II - Game Over

[PeregrineV]

Missed RVS, but that's all for the well for this game.

Read the first game if you have not.

More later today.

[PeregrineV]

Looking over auction:

The Marketplace

Most Advertised Ability:

None

#	Name	Current Bid
1	Cop x 2	$91
2	Doctor x 2	$2
3	Extra Vote x 1	$32
4	Governor x 1	$16
5	Investigation Immunity x 4	$46
6	Last Will x 3	$1
7	Neighborizer x 2	$58
8	Night-kill x 1	$31
9	Oracle x 2	$1
10	Roleblocker x 3	$70

Any of the abilities that help scum should be claimed by town. NK, RB, Invest Immune should all be claimed if won. Failure to claim probably means won by scum.
Confirmable abilities that could hurt town (Extra Vote, Governor) should also be claimed.

The rest is not indicative of alignment, so claiming them would just be towards calculating your cash totals.

[PeregrineV]

Cash calculations

In the first game, we could try to catch players lying by doing the math on the items they say they bid on and the money they should/could have left. However, I think Magua would have corrected for anything like this, so don't feel it would be as useful this game. If anyone can think of a way where doing so might be feasible and useful, I'd like to hear it.
Either way, those at L-1 for the lynch should show there "final accounting" if town. This will allow us to prevent scum claims of abilities and cash in the lategame.

Auctions

I was hoping for a total abilities list, but so far the only ones shown are the ones that have been up for auction. I don't know if that means these are ALL of the abilities in the game, or we will only see new ones as they appear.
Either way, a total of $348 was spent for all abilities. Out of a total of $2,000, that's not very much. I hope town invested the crap out of thier cash, in order to outbid scum later.

Setup Spec

20 player game would put scum at 5 under normal games.
Being as scum lack a NK here, I could see more than that. I do make the asumption that the 2 are equal, although I do realize that that is not necessarily true. And the last game had a SK that could nab abilities for free. I make no assumption that there is not another in here.

Subject: Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

Spoiler: Communist Saboteur Role PM

Kick it over, bourgeoisie pig! Smash the system! The proletariat is the source of all wealth, so all wealth to the proletariat! Destroy the capitalist fetters!

You are a

Communist Saboteur (Serial Killer)

.

Nest Egg:

You start the game with $50.

Wage:

At the end of every Day, you will receive $0 (no money).

Efficiency Bonus:

At the end of every Day, you will receive $5 for every full 24 hours that remained until deadline (since deadline is 14 real life days, this bonus will be between $65 and $0).

Quicktopic:

Although you do not have any partners, a Quicktopic is provided here as a convenience to communicate with the mod instead of using PMs. Use of this Quicktopic is entirely optional.

Strength of the Proletariat:

You are immune to the first kill attempt on you. You will be alerted when this occurs. This will happen automatically, and does not need to be activated. If something else would stop the kill anyway, this is not used up (it is the last line of defense, not the first).

The Fruits of Their Labor:

If the Day has an auction from Advertising (see Section V), you will receive one usage of that ability automatically. You may still win that auction as normal.

The Wages of Sin:

Once per Day, you may PM the mod the name of an auction that has not yet ended, and that you are not the current highest bidder on. You gain an amount of money equal to its current highest bid. You may not bid on this auction for its remainder. This will be announced in-thread (anonymously).

Outside the System:

You may not use the Invest action (see Section IV), and you may not spend money on Advertising (see Section V).

Under The Table Dealings:

At any time, you may give the mod a message; it will be transmitted (anonymously) to all other players who do not have the Town win condition. You know that all win conditions in this game are mutually exclusive (there is no way you can draw or win with anyone else who receives this message).

There Ain’t No Such Thing As A Free Lunch:

You do not possess an innate Night-kill. In order to kill that Night, you must win the Night-kill auction during the Day.

Fakeclaim:

The Entrepreneur Role PM is posted in the thread. If you give me specific game information, I will write the relevant PM for you incorporating those elements.

You win as a

Serial Killer

: You win when you are the only player alive (or nothing can prevent the same), or when all players are dead.

End State

Name	Money	Abilities	Notes
Voidedmafia	$725	Commuter x 1, Hitman x 2, Last Will x 2	Replaces RedCoyote
GreyICE	$740	Accountant x 1, Doctor x 3, Extra Vote x 2, Investigation Immunity x 4, Night-kill x 1, Roleblocker x 4, Tracker x 1, Vote Nullifier x 1, Wage Freeze x 1	Replaces Midnight's Sorrow
HellloooNewman	$85	Last Will x 1, Medium x 1

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine - Please link me to two completed scum games (preferably in Themes).

[PeregrineV]

@MoI- but quick glance is Polite Mafia, Dram's bastard & Mass Effect.

[PeregrineV]

No, MoI is being daykilled. Seanald is the NK.

The daykill became a nightkill, so it's probably not real.

[PeregrineV]

I saw where extra vote and Governor was claimed, so Sal and Gentlemen are probably town.

With Invest Immune, RB, and NK remaining unclaimed, they probably went to scum.

Kind of been ignoring the screaming, but will go back to see if Seanald is a good lynch.

Tammy is currently leaning town, but I'll look over her other scum games, since her Good vs Evil style is similar but still distinguishable from her Team Mafia style.

[PeregrineV]

Tazaro, yes, because he's bad at playing scum.

Now put your vote back on Seanald please.

Quick question, why is Seanald scum again? I only ask because MoI's opening and only vote was on Seanald, and it's way too early in the day to think MoI would be expecting to get away with bussing.

[PeregrineV]

I disagree that nightkill should claim.

Why would town not claim the NK if they have it? They can't be killed, and they don't have to use it tonight if they fear scum roleblock.

[PeregrineV]

Overall while it's helped some town reads only person I think it hurts a good amount right now to put as a scum read is Pitty.

Was going to ignore the whole town and scum PM statement from them, but with MoI's flip, it's a possible slip at this point.

Vote: Pitty

[PeregrineV]

Just a heads up, the discussion and argument that Pitty 'Scumslipped' is pretty much nullified by the fact that her Post 261 shows that she understands where the QT suggestion part is in the role PM and thus likely received it.

@Gentelman & @ Patty-In order for me to accpet that version of the post, I'll need some pretty specific clarification on this bolded section.

MoI was town (like he pretty much always is in my reads) until the whole QT thing came up. And yeah, I'll admit Mag wasn't very vocal about starting up a QT with us,

but it says very clearly in both the town and scum PM

that one may ask for a private QT with the mod, so that makes me think perhaps MoI is TP and his PM doesn't say anything of the sort? I can't imagine that being the case but...

And this does not clarify it for me:

I'm going to clarify this now before someone goes "OMG! Piggy knows what the scum PM says?! Obvscum right there!"
I mean that by the fact that it's in it's own separate space, not part of the rest of the role. Meaning it's not an alignment indicator, it's a PM indicator. If all the town got the same PM (except our miller vig...?), and assuming all the scum got the same PM, the only one that wouldn't get something that everyone else has is TP, and if all MoI happens to be referring to is the sample PM on the first page (and I suppose scum could potentially not have that bit at the bottom as well, but that's really really unlikely, since that would give town a huge advantage and cause this whole mishap), well that would easily cause this slip up.

Since it clearly WAS a role indicator.

[PeregrineV]

Kind of forgot that part. She was also the first to mention where the qt section was found in the pm which she wouldn't have known as scum at all so that drastically increases her chances of being town.

I strongly suspect that MoI knew by his last post he was screwed and ranted all over the scum QT at Magua, and scum had, at any and all points after post 231, an exact copy of the PM sent to town. So, it doesn't clear her at all for me.

[PeregrineV]

I'm going to clarify this now before someone goes "OMG! Piggy knows what the scum PM says?! Obvscum right there!" I mean that by the fact that it's in it's own separate space, not part of the rest of the role. Meaning it's not an alignment indicator, it's a PM indicator.

If all the town got the same PM (except our miller vig...?), and assuming all the scum got the same PM, the only one that wouldn't get something that everyone else has is TP, and if all MoI happens to be referring to is the sample PM on the first page (and I suppose scum could potentially not have that bit at the bottom as well, but that's really really unlikely, since that would give town a huge advantage and cause this whole mishap), well that would easily cause this slip up.

I think the bolded part explains her post fairly well.

See 471.

[PeregrineV]

So we have 7 pages overnight … let’s see what the game brings us.

Given what Slumber put together on Page 5 regarding Sean is where I am starting …

VOTE: Sean

Oh boy >.< 10 pages already?

Seanald is an a-okay lynch with me, ThePartehBoyez did a pretty much word-for-word explanation of my read for me o.O

MoI was town (like he pretty much always is in my reads) until the whole QT thing came up. And yeah, I'll admit Mag wasn't very vocal about starting up a QT with us, but it says very clearly in both the town and scum PM that one may ask for a private QT with the mod, so that makes me think perhaps MoI is TP and his PM doesn't say anything of the sort? I can't imagine that being the case but...
The fact is, I'm confused over the whole debockle, and don't want him lynched or vigged

today

(tomorrow will be a whole other story).
Sala's point in 244 would be the main reason why I would be voting MoI, and I'm glad someone else caught that.

Long of the short of it, VOTE: Seanald

@Gentle-
Yes, but no Pitty posts until after MoI last post.
Same post structure for first post.
Same Seanald vote for first vote first post.
Calling MoI town while simultaneously bussing in preparation for his flip.

All this means I find Pitty pretty scummy at this point.

[PeregrineV]

And pere what's your opinion on defender likely not knowing the existence of a qt either? (I think before it was explained town has a qt link so scum wouldn't have had it then either)

Grey vote defender. I have a feeling we can get 10 votes quick enough.

MoI called out Defender at 186 about his Seanald read, and Defender totally ignored it. That in addition to the soft push on the Stefan QT statement means he's probably scum.

[PeregrineV]

P-edit2: Then vote defender.

OK.

Vote: Defender

Please weigh in on the Pitty discussion.

[PeregrineV]

So PV how else would she know where it's located? Scum don't have a town role pm based on how MoI slipped, so how would she know it's location outside of being town?

Kind of forgot that part. She was also the first to mention where the qt section was found in the pm which she wouldn't have known as scum at all so that drastically increases her chances of being town.

I strongly suspect that MoI knew by his last post he was screwed and ranted all over the scum QT at Magua, and scum had, at any and all points after post 231, an exact copy of the PM sent to town. So, it doesn't clear her at all for me.

As a matter of fact, her demonstration of pointing out it's exact location almost seems like an effort to prove her townliness.

[PeregrineV]

Night1 auction items have been posted.
Paraphrased for your reading pleasure.

Two counts of auction investigator (auction+player=did they get it?)
Targeted vote blocker (target+player=target can't vote player)
Two counts of banker (how much $$$?)
Three counts of Sixth Sense (if target dies, get to talk to them)
Vig shot
Four counts of untrackable and/or unwatchable Master of Ninjitsu Arts
Three counts sartor, who is really a fake investigation results giver
Two counts of follower (where did they go?, but not what they do)
Stalker (eyeball a player, who visits them?)

[PeregrineV]

Night1 auction items have been posted.
Paraphrased for your reading pleasure.

Two counts of auction investigator (auction+player=did they get it?)
Targeted vote blocker (target+player=target can't vote player)
Two counts of banker (how much $$$?)
Three counts of Sixth Sense (if target dies, get to talk to them)
Vig shot
Four counts of untrackable and/or unwatchable Master of Ninjitsu Arts
Three counts sartor, who is really a fake investigation results giver
Two counts of follower (where did they go?, but not what they do)
Stalker (eyeball a player, who visits them?)

Wait? where'd you get this?

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question.

[PeregrineV]

Night1 auction items have been posted.
Paraphrased for your reading pleasure.

Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2
Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1
Banker: Checks to see how much money someone has. x2
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3
Night-kill
MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3
Follower: Tracker. x2
Stalker: Watcher

Clarified because I'm awesome. and that was confusing as hell.
Does the MoNA stop people from being watched or does it stop watcher's from seeing you visit their target?
Is Sartor like Investigative Immunity?

pedit: He is the fucking Oracle

The MASTER gets to choose which of his nocturnal jaunts are invivisble to the Follower or Stalker.

Sartor seems more like framer, can pick the player and the "result" that an investigation on that player will return.

Banker is not player specific.

[PeregrineV]

@Guille- posted in my QT. Yes.

@Taz-no, total $$$ all players have, minus the money they don't have on them

[PeregrineV]

@StefanB- If you want the NK, it would be preferable if you invested all of your money night1 and so will be bidding in the $200+ range. If you don't win it, then we at least want to make it cost prohibitive for scum to acquire it.

Banker tells how much money total exists that is not elsewhere.

Same rules apply. Town wins of scum abilities (vote blocker, MASTER, Framer) should be claimed immediately.

[PeregrineV]

Is the Vig kill the same as the night Kill?

Yes, since paraphrasing was required.

@Stefan- fair enough. I'm good with you having it and max-bidding on it.

[PeregrineV]

Pere, you should have claimed with these earlier, also oracle isn't up for auction tomorrow night?

No point to claiming earlier, not indicative of alignment, and I didn't have the auctions yet.

---

We're filling this out today. Would have been better if Stefan didn't blatantly state he had full-funds and would be going for NK but at this point there's nothing to do about it. Once this list is complete

no one

other than the person whose name is next to the item should be bidding on the item.

Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 -
Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 -
Banker: Checks to see how much money someone has. x2 -
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 --
Night-kill -

StefanB

MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)-
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) -
Follower: Tracker. x2 -
Stalker: Watcher -

Gentlemen Bastards

Banker is not just one person

Someone should also advertise cop every night so it always shows up from now on. Last game once advertised you couldn't do it again, but I don't see that restriction here.

[PeregrineV]

Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 -

Tazaro

Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 -
Banker: Checks to see how much money someone has. x2 -
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 --

Salamance

Night-kill -

StefanB

MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)-
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) -
Follower: Tracker. x2 -

Voidedmafia

Stalker: Watcher -

Gentlemen Bastards

Also everyone that isn't on the list

at all

should be mass-investing.

We also need townish people to buy the scum abilities, so scum doesn't get them.

[PeregrineV]

Pere, the difference in advertising isn't 'unlimited' just that losing advertising bids funds carry over to the next night:

Once an ability has won an Advertising auction, it cannot be advertised for the rest of the game.

And if we have two people on Banker would that work then?

Ah well, then we should at least advertise town roles for the next night.

[PeregrineV]

@Slumber- It sounds like it should work. Having half the players confirm their amounts, and banker ability can help us determine how much extra money scum has.

[PeregrineV]

oh sh!t.

ummmmmm. i guess i should mention this O.o

i just looked at my role pm more carefully. i cannot transfer invest or advertise.

BBmolla has a box next to his you can have.

[PeregrineV]

Giving multiple transfer to the same person should reduce the chances of Hitting scum, thus reducing flaw #1.

Unfortunately, with the transfers public knowledge, consolidating the transfers makes the single person at higher risk for scum targeting.

[PeregrineV]

Having mid-null reads transfer funds back and forth would keep the money from being used, while keeping it in play until alignment can be determined.

[PeregrineV]

I agree to the transaction.

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANYTHING:
Eidolin
BBmolla
Tazaro
Mehdi

Taz or Mehdi should be advertising the crap out of the power we want night3 (cop, Doc, oracle, Track, watch, whatever). The rest they can transfer between them.

[PeregrineV]

Should we advertize Neighborizer? Remember that Eid gets the power too, so advertizing for NK will give her the night kill.

She says she doesn't get that one.
NK is in every auction, why waste money advertising it?

[PeregrineV]

We are not doing Phillamon.

Please for the love of god explain to me how I'm the only one seeing him being obvscum here and no one else is because it's getting frustrating. Also I don't think Magua 'adds up' to determine what the negative is but we did contemplate testing that tonight.

Brief readthrough of Phil ISO does look that damning. I don't like the fact he has only 7 posts when there is definitely a lot to talk about this game.

Town points for voting MoI, but loses points for first post+MoI vote all coming after MoI rant.

Will switch to Pitty with little coaxing, but if you want a Phil vote I'll have to go look at a few scum/town games.

[PeregrineV]

While I'm here, VOTE: D3f3nd3r too, as he does indeed seem pretty scummy. His attempting to buddy me earlier didn't help.

Unfortunately, what you appear to be advocating is lynching a different townie over another, and it's very close to getting up to $10 per player, which is almost certainly more than the original worth of said player. Unless you have actually caught scum for sure (which you haven't, as of yet), then speed may well be more important.

How did Defender go from scum to "another townie"? And how did we not "catch scum" with him?

[PeregrineV]

Thanks, GB. Now kindly try pieces of my own meta, rather than projected self meta. Masons and Mafia I wasn't technically mafia, but I had daytalk and much the same as what you described occured. Meta is still in my wiki, still go get it. As I have said: I had 2 larges start at the same time, another one which I won't go into detail on but has drawn a lot of time, and I haven't had as much time to spend on any of this as I would have liked to. The lurking will stop happening as time goes on. That said, I'm unlikely to have any net connection at all for the weekend, so it won't improve then. I'll try to be useful for now, though.

PV: Because I was pointing out was GB was saying, given he's saying that D3f3nd3r is town. Besides which, d3f is looking reasonably townish now.

I'd like to hear why YOU think he's more townish now than when you voted him. Given that part of Gentle's case on you is you've been lurking and have 2 posts of promising to catch up. Are you caught up now?

[PeregrineV]

@Stefan- I was expecting you to be above the $200 mark.

Advertising

Last Night I advertised $152 on cop. I don't get that back, but if I read the Advertize rules right, that goes towards cop being advertised tonight, regardless of the source of the funds to do so. This makes it slightly less irritating, but irritating nonetheless.

Neighborizor

Kind of a useless ability for town. Combined with the fact that the town plan called for cop, this has got to be a scum play. Looking at rule II.6., I think scum plans on using it to open up a joint QT of some sort so they can coordinate and transfer abilities. If you look at II.6.d and II.6.e., a neighbor QT makes the most sense, since they win together. The last game had mod-assisted communication. While this game probably doesn't have it based on mod notes of last game, neighborizor would be logical for them to get, and would be the only reason I could see for them to waste money on advertizing it.

As a followup to that, if they don't want to waste it, then they will need to a. Win it today, and b. neighborize scum on the opposite team.
More on this later in the day.

Oracle Results

In a separate post, since I have to paraphrase them, and they're not as clean cut roles like yesterday.

[PeregrineV]

Paraphrase as best you can. Put an asterisk next to it if we should know the role or it was sued last game so then somebody else can put it up as it's real name.

Good idea.

[PeregrineV]

Oracle- Abilities at Night 2 Auction

2 counts of Beancounter (First of the list)
1 count of unseen auctioning (Very similar to third of the list)
2 counts of Kevlar (Fourth of the list)
1 count of "The Perfect Gift", preset at

Wage

rate, arrives immediately
2 counts of Agent 47 (Thirteenth of the list)
2 counts of As Avertised (Eighteenth of the list)
1 count of vig
1 count of Lynch sub-zero (Fourth from bottom)
1 count of Lynch-B-Gone (Third from bottom)

[PeregrineV]

Taz or Mehdi should be advertising the crap out of the power we want night3 (cop, Doc, oracle, Track, watch, whatever). The rest they can transfer between them.

Yep, agreed.

Also, did this happen?

[PeregrineV]

And since thread search sucks for the forums, did someone claim winning neighborizor yesterday?

[PeregrineV]

PV, do you mean 18th for As Advertised? Because 18 is neighbourizer. Molla: Nope, try again.

Yes, the ability that was advertised last night.

[PeregrineV]

Accountant x2(Targeted): Choose another player. You will learn how much money this player possessed at the start of this Night.

Blind Bid x1(Day): For the Night, only you can see the current bid for auctions. To everyone else, it will be hidden. This will be announced in-thread.

Other players will be informed if they are, or are not, the highest bidder as normal.

Bulletproof x1(Personal): You are protected from a single Night-kill targeting you this Night.

Hitman x2(Personal): If you activate “Night-kill” in the same night you activate “Hitman”, “Night-kill” will ignore one ability that would stop the kill from working (ie, ignore one roleblock or protection).

Neighborizer x2(Targeted): Choose another player. At the start of the next Day, a Neighbor Quicktopic will be provided that either of you may talk in at any time while alive. If you use this ability a subsequent time, you may choose to add the new player to an existing Neighbor Quicktopic (this will work even if you die that Night), or create a new, separate one.

Night-kill

Vote Freezer (Day): Choose another player who is voting, but is not voting for No Lynch. Their vote is now frozen and cannot be changed for the rest of the Day. This will be announced in-thread. This will not affect the lynch threshhold.

Vote Nullifier (Targeted): Choose another player. That player will not have a vote the following Day. This will be announced in-thread. The lynch threshold may go down as a result of activation of this power.

Is Blind Bid correct Peregrine? Also no-clue what that weird one is.

This is right.

[PeregrineV]

1 count of "The Perfect Gift", preset at Wage rate, arrives immediately

Can someone translate so I can clarify?

[PeregrineV]

It looks like it's a one shot ability that targets another player, instantly increasing their funds by the recipient's wage. Or possibly the senders' wage. That a decent guess?

There's only one Wage.

but yes.

[PeregrineV]

Considering scum wanted neigborizer I don't think they have it so I don't think we should be claiming lack of it. If everyone disagrees sure, but at the moment I think it'll just out a pr likely with town.

Anyone is a PR through the Auction process, and "outing" neighborizor with cop and doc floating around is perfectly acceptable. Given that scum WANT neighborizor, knowing and controlling it is more important.

[PeregrineV]

Originally wasn't the plan for the neighborizer target either GB or SDB? If they target SDB (assuming they're town and targeted GB before) then SDB can just say tomorrow whether he thinks they're town or not. Doesn't out them but lets them be controlled.

Sure, but this plan was before we knew scum wanted neighborizer. Now that we know that is an important ability to them, we need to lock it down.

[PeregrineV]

It looks like it's a one shot ability that targets another player, instantly increasing their funds by the recipient's wage. Or possibly the senders' wage. That a decent guess?

There's only one Wage.

but yes.

We already had molla claim no wage, so I challenge that.

So, an ability that does nothing. How does that make sense?

[PeregrineV]

I'm assuming it's the common wage of 50. So spend a dollar to be able to transfer 50. That sound closer?

This is what it does.

[PeregrineV]

It looks like it's a one shot ability that targets another player, instantly increasing their funds by the recipient's wage. Or possibly the senders' wage. That a decent guess?

There's only one Wage.

but yes.

We already had molla claim no wage, so I challenge that.

So, an ability that does nothing. How does that make sense?

An ability that circumstantially does nothing, or possibly depending on set up more or less? That sounds feasible to me...

Really? Looking at any of the other abilities, do they seem role dependent like you are saying this one is?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine
About Blind Bind: Can the one who wins it, choose to not use it, or is it compulsive?

It doesn't say compulsive, but using it means no public updates to the auction bids. Only the owner of the blind bid can see the updates to auctions.

[PeregrineV]

This day is going on until everybody posts, esp. Seanald. But day started 43 hours ago, so prods not due until 29 hours. However, in this game where time=money, people need to bookmark or whatever and get in here.

GreyICE 2012-11-02 18:27:23 5 days 23 hours 62
Seanald 2012-11-02 17:09:44 6 days 0 hours 19
Eidolon 2012-11-02 13:58:02 6 days 3 hours 21
Pitty 2012-11-01 21:58:31 6 days 19 hours 18

[PeregrineV]

And if Grey was replaced, where's the new guy?

[PeregrineV]

I think Eid is gone also.

[PeregrineV]

I think Eid is gone also.

Back here, will be catching up today.

[PeregrineV]

@PeregrineV: Any reads other than Phillamon and Pitty? I just took a break from catching up the game as a whole to read your ISO, there's hardly any reads on people at all, and I'd like to know what you're thinking about the day game, rather than the night game.

Yeah, let me get to the end of the page and I'll come back to this.

[PeregrineV]

@Call- Pitty is my strongest. I detailed it here (441), here (467), here (471) and finally here (480). Medhi questions it, since she's had Pitty =town (439), but I disagree (495).

[PeregrineV]

Then,

Taz or Mehdi should be advertising the crap out of the power we want night3 (cop, Doc, oracle, Track, watch, whatever). The rest they can transfer between them.

Yep, agreed.

But somehow that got changed in the final draft.

Current (two more claims needed)

Player	Amount that will be transferred
Voided	186
Guille	209
Greyice	180
Elmo
Pitty	209
Philla	190
Sean	103

Advertiser for Cop: Advertises cop - Peregine
Auction Investigator: Checks what that player won. x2 - Tazaro
Blocker: Stops one player from voting another. x1 - Gentlemen Bastards
Sixth Sense: Targets a player and if they die you get a QT with them. x3 -- Salamance
Night-kill - StefanB
MoNA: Cannot be tracked or watched x4 (Town-read)- Tammy
Sartor: Gives fake investigation results. x3 (Town-read) - Greygnarl
Follower: Tracker. x2 - Bois
Stalker: Watcher - Gentlemen Bastards

TRANSFER FROM _____ TO ______:
Pitty to Stephan
Seanald to Gentlemen Bastard
Guille to SlumberPartyBois
Philammon to Salamence
Elmo to Tammy
Voided to Peregrine
GreyICE to greygnarl

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANY TRANSFERS:
Eidolin
BBmolla
Tazaro
Mehdi

Only piece missing is elmo's.

Eidolin flaked.
BBMolla-broke Bum
Tazaro-

I gave an amount of money to Mehdi.

Mehdi-

There's lack of reason to hide my money actions. I transferred all of my money to GB (I realize the effect on the plan, but at the same time the reasoning behind no two give to the same person was it meant looking at two people so just trusting me would have worked).

And there's more, but start any questions comments now.

[PeregrineV]

Or the fact I'm a neighborizer and had planned to target GB way before the plan originated and I already explained me giving money to him.

So you not only transferred all of your money to Gentleman, he was also your neighbor target? All your eggs in one basket seems counterintuitive, since if he was so townie he would be targeted for the NK, why not neighbor Slumber and transfer Genteleman, or vice versa?

And why not transfer to Tazaro as originally planned?

He has 0 money right now after transferring all of it. I think someone who's close to confirmed town (well confirmed to have protected GB or he couldn't have possibly known his being role blocked) should have more then that.

Actually, that would be Voided's claim. You arguing "he needs cash, he's broke" seems to be coming as if you think it is reality.

Vote: Medhi

There's more, and I want this stuff answered before I'm changing my vote.

[PeregrineV]

How did tazaro break plan? He was supposed to either give to me or advertise and you were doing that more at the time. I explained my plan break.

If this is to me, Tazaro didn't break plan. That's my point. Apparently no one broke plan except you.

[PeregrineV]

Voided is almost definitely town. He's confirmed to have protected GB (it's nearly impossible to know being RB other wise). I'll assume his claim is true.

Slumber claimed RB

We are the Roleblocker

Here's what needs to happen:

Every single player has to say if they are or are not the NKer.

Doctor

MUST

50/50 protect us/GB if the NKer does not come forward.

If voided thought Matt was town, then why not say he's the doc?
Instead, post-Gentelman death:

scum probably have the doctor.

100% false.

On that note, scum (either team) have the RB, most definitely.

Also, I transferred my money to Peregrine as ordered.

I expected GB to be protected (he was the obvious protection to me). And neighborizing him would also let me see what happens with the money I transferred.

I don't get this. You wanted to ask him in the QT what he's doing with your money?

PV I repeatedly said I had something I specifically wanted to do. Originally I was supposed to be given money but rejected it. I think it was obvious I wasn't planning to do something normal. Complaining about it now when I made obvious there was something I wanted to do is weak.

So you didn't want to be sent any money because you were neighborizing night1?
Explain the logic behind this please.

[PeregrineV]

Also why say before I'm changing my vote? Feels like you're just giving yourself an easy out and want to try to see if you can get an fos based just on my plan break.

An easy out?
It was the town plan, and no one broke it except you. Why make a plan for town to use if anyone can ignore it?

We have no way to confirm ANY of your actions. And all your actions revolve around the dead guy whom most people had a town read on.

@Call- 1163 Matt blocked voided

[PeregrineV]

Yes but you're still saying it as if you can just unvote me if the response seems decent like their's a lack of conviction with your vote then.

So if your responses make sense to me enough to where I don't want to lynch you today, then my vote lacks conviction?

It was the town plan, and no one broke it except you. Why make a plan for town to use if anyone can ignore it?

We have no way to confirm ANY of your actions. And all your actions revolve around the dead guy whom most people had a town read on.

I missed your response about having a town plan and following the town plan.

Asking things already answered is also dumb. Voided said why he didn't claim pages ago when matt asked.

Because he was hoping to hold onto it today at the earliest.(1164) I saw that. The net result of the loss of all your money and your neighborizing ability for night1 seems like you would be demanding more answers.

I explained the neighborize thing. I trust GB. I want to be neighbors with him to discuss things with him. Giving money to a person I can discuss with beats giving money I won't know what happens to it.

Right, but we also have a town plan which we are following, so you'll know your money is helping town win. I'm not seeing this as a good reason for this type of game.

[PeregrineV]

PV point of plans is to help the town. I knew what I was doing and hinted I was doing something the day before. Complain to me day 1 where I repeatedly said I didn't want to receive money or bid on anything. Complaining to me now when I'd showed desire of doing something different is dumb.

Yes. You specifically asked to be excluded from the plan of receiving money for reasons you didn't want to go into.
Did you tell Tazaro?

why would you neioghborzing you preclude you from receiving money from Tazaro?

If you were designated to send money to Tazaro, and you mentioned not wanting to

receive

money, but were OK with sending it, why did you not send it to Tazaro?

I'm not complaining, I'm pointing out that if you can do whatever you want but be town, how is the plan supposed to catch scum?

I did notice your "posting" of the plan changed the Tazaro_Medhi transfer to "take no action", but decided to wait and see what you actually claimed day2.

[PeregrineV]

I agree that what he's doing is stupid, retarded, etc. but I wouldn't call it scummy yet.

So it's all "just bad luck" in your opinion?

What do you think the purpose of following the plan is?

What should be the consequences of not following the plan?

[PeregrineV]

Oh my fucking Jesus, Peregrine is just shooting in the dark to try to deflect attention. He suddenly has a million things to say about the game when cfj questions his alignment? Yeah sure.He's coming up with a million scenarios that make little sense, he's attacking Voided saying that he should've claimed doc. He's attacking Mehdi because he transferred which is a bit weird. However, if Mehdi was scum why would he say that? To look like really dumb town?
VOTE: Peregrine

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Let me know if you want to explain it to you.

In short:

TRANSFER FROM _____ TO ______:
Pitty to

Stephan

Seanald to

Gentlemen Bastard

Guille to

SlumberPartyBois

Philammon to

Salamence

Elmo to Tammy
Voided to Peregrine
GreyICE to greygnarl

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANY TRANSFERS:

Eidolin

BBmolla

Tazaro
Mehdi

The bolded are pretty strong town reads based on day1 play and what happened. Italics are professed non-Entrepreneurs. Based on Marketplace I- 2 scumteams of 2 + 1 3rd party in a 13 player game, Expecting 3-3-1 scum and 13 town this game isn't too farfetched. That means like 6 scum in here. Let's look at the non-bolded players.

Pitty- I think is scum.
Seanald-Got cop. 1 shot left. Probably going to be lynched to verify cop results. Scum knows this so most likely wouldn't buy cop. Plus MoI opening vote on him.
Guille- apparently cleared by Seanald using cop
Phil- kind of scummy, but mostly for early game posts
Callforjudge-I had Elmo as null, Callfor currently null leaning town for detailing funds.
Voided- Really uncertain, but let's say town for the sake of arguement because of doc crap.
Shamrock-nothing on him or GreyIce

So let's say Phil/Pitty are sum, that leaves 4 more.

Tammy- getting her town vibe early . I did state a need to re-read some of her meta, and I have yet to do it, but let's say null.
Greygarl-I thought was fairly town early game, but often find myself not thinking that, or in the minority on this read. Call it null for argument sake.
Tazaro-claimed Transferred to Medhi. Why would scum do that if they can stick to "I was supposed to keep it-look at the plan!"
Medhi-Didn't like some early posts, but others looked worse. Called MoI town even after scumslip, calls Pitty town after detailing her knowledge of the scum PM, changes the final plan so that Medhi_Tazaro transfer doesn't occur, neighbored the nightkill, transferred money to the nightkill, didn't follow the plan.

So, all 4 of these scum?
Probably not. That means other reads are off somewhere.

So, I start with the scummiest. Based on the above, who would that be?

[PeregrineV]

I called pitty scum and argued that point originally until GB explained it. Read more again?

And anyways you're mainly going back to what I did with the plan. I've responded to that a ton.

Let's look at that, shall we?

Just a heads up, the discussion and argument that Pitty 'Scumslipped' is pretty much nullified by the fact that her Post 261 shows that she understands where the QT suggestion part is in the role PM and thus likely received it.

@Gentelman & @ Patty-In order for me to accpet that version of the post,

I'll need some pretty specific clarification on this bolded section.

MoI was town (like he pretty much always is in my reads) until the whole QT thing came up. And yeah, I'll admit Mag wasn't very vocal about starting up a QT with us,

but it says very clearly in both the town and scum PM

that one may ask for a private QT with the mod, so that makes me think perhaps MoI is TP and his PM doesn't say anything of the sort? I can't imagine that being the case but...

And this does not clarify it for me:

I'm going to clarify this now before someone goes "OMG! Piggy knows what the scum PM says?! Obvscum right there!"
I mean that by the fact that it's in it's own separate space, not part of the rest of the role. Meaning it's not an alignment indicator, it's a PM indicator. If all the town got the same PM (except our miller vig...?), and assuming all the scum got the same PM, the only one that wouldn't get something that everyone else has is TP, and if all MoI happens to be referring to is the sample PM on the first page (and I suppose scum could potentially not have that bit at the bottom as well, but that's really really unlikely, since that would give town a huge advantage and cause this whole mishap), well that would easily cause this slip up.

Since it clearly WAS a role indicator.

This is where I ask about it.

You respond:

Kind of forgot that part. She was also the first to mention where the qt section was found in the pm which she wouldn't have known as scum at all so that drastically increases her chances of being town.

I strongly suspect that MoI knew by his last post he was screwed and ranted all over the scum QT at Magua, and scum had, at any and all points after post 231, an exact copy of the PM sent to town. So, it doesn't clear her at all for me.

But if you responded to 471, I missed it. Please link it for me and I'll shut up and read.

Then Gentelman also responds:

I'm going to clarify this now before someone goes "OMG! Piggy knows what the scum PM says?! Obvscum right there!" I mean that by the fact that it's in it's own separate space, not part of the rest of the role. Meaning it's not an alignment indicator, it's a PM indicator.

If all the town got the same PM (except our miller vig...?), and assuming all the scum got the same PM, the only one that wouldn't get something that everyone else has is TP, and if all MoI happens to be referring to is the sample PM on the first page (and I suppose scum could potentially not have that bit at the bottom as well, but that's really really unlikely, since that would give town a huge advantage and cause this whole mishap), well that would easily cause this slip up.

I think the bolded part explains her post fairly well.

See 471.

And I responded back with 472.

So in light of the above, if you want to explain Pitty even more go ahead.

[PeregrineV]

He becomes pretty obvious town by the end of D1.

So you read day1?

Why do you thinscum advertised nieghbiorizor so heavily?

Is Eidolon/Nero Magua's way of toying with town, or is that slot the SK?

[PeregrineV]

@Tammy- thoughts on 1713

[PeregrineV]

@Tazaro: Neighbourizer was advertised last night, contrary to what everyone had agreed and what we'd planned. Nobody's claimed doing that, so it seems very likely that scum did it, and people are trying to work out why.

The three theories I have:

• PeregrineV is scum,
  and didn't advertise Cop as planned
  , meaning that something else could cheaply be advertised by him or someone else (and Neighbourizer happened to be next);

It's been evidenced that the bolded is not relevant.

One of the scumteams has located the other scumteam, and is trying to use Neighbourizer to generate a shared QT (this implicates Seanald, but also seems a little impractical).

Note that if a hypothetical scum Mehdi is on the located scumteam rather than the locating scumteam, they could still need Neighbourizer for that purpose despite it being in scum hands already.

Did anyone mention this already?
Also, unless you know something I don't, scumA can only locate scumB the same way town can- using the cop ability. And I don't get the bolded sentence. What does that mean?

The scum are scared enough of Cop that they advertised something else to prevent it falling into the Town's hands (in that case, why not pick Tailor or Investigation Immune, though?)

I think you self-explained why they didn't pick neighborizor out of fear of cop. That means they have a use for it.

Incidentally, if PeregrineV is telling the truth about last night's actions, we're going to get Cop advertised tonight unless someone pays even more for another ability. We can learn a lot by looking at what ability is shown as most advertised right at the start of the night; I'm expecting it to be Cop, but if it's something else, then either PeregrineV is guilty or there's a bunch of scumteam dissonance going on (which wouldn't be surprising, given the disjointed scumteams). We need to work out what we're advertising tonight, too, and it should almost certainly be one of the two really protown roles that have come up, Cop and Watcher. (Watcher will be more powerful than Cop when the game gets smaller, because predicting the nightkill is normally easier than predicting scum, also there's a bunch of anti-Cop roles floating around and fewer anti-Wacher roles.) Both of those roles are useful for scum, because they're trying to find scum just like town is, but for different reasons.

I also don't want to leave the same person advertising twice in a row, ever. This means that if we get unusual advertising results, it'll be easier to work out who's responsible.

Actually, advertise carries over, so any new ability advertised has to beat my money plus the new money tonight.

[PeregrineV]

Tazaro: I can't read minds, but scum used 190 for the nk and advertised.
I believe it was stated by Peregrine a lot.
Everythink else went for 1 $.
It actually means that Mehdi (claimed Neighborizer) is more likly town. (Why would scum need that if they already have neighborizer Mehdi?) among other thinks.
I think her obvioustown maisonplan is the better one, if scum is in danger of getting it. (No revealing why at the moment)

@Stefan- There was an SK last game. Do you think the SK bought the NK?

If scum had neighborizor through Medhi, why do you think they wouldn't want further uses of it? We have 2 cops and we want more.

[PeregrineV]

hello. Who are we killing and why?

We had a plan of people passing money to limit scum using it. 6 passed to 6 I think, and 4 did not. 1713 is my latest take on last night's plan, posted here: 1127

[PeregrineV]

hello. Who are we killing and why?

We had a plan of people passing money to limit scum using it. 6 passed to 6 I think, and 4 did not. 1713 is my latest take on last night's plan, posted here: 1127

ok...............that tells me nothing about why CAJ is the leading wagon. Why did you respond to my question but not answer it?

Sorry, you have to do some reading.

CFJ replaced/is carrying votes from Elmo.

[PeregrineV]

So my next question to you is: you've just gone over my reasoning here and made comments on what you agree with and what you don't agree with. So from your point of view, at this point Seanald should be close to confirmed scum (you think cop is in scum's hands, right?). Or am I missing something?

This makes the presumption that scum-Seanald's team thought he would be the best candidate to get cop and use it for their purposes.

Fake results serve two purposes:
1. He calls target player town. If they are town, then they think cop=good.
2. If they are scum, then they know he's lying, and thus a member of the other scum team.

Now once he gives the results, we can either lynch him to "confirm" his results, or continue to play like normal. Scum would take into account who's getting it, and have to account for the possible lynch of their fake cop.

So, yes Seanald can be scum, but if he's town he'd still have to be lynched to make his cop ability useful.

[PeregrineV]

I think it's more of a personality tell than an alignment tell; it sort-of betrays that PV seems more focused on the details of the breaking strategy than on actually catching scum, so I guess it's a bit of both and a weak scumtell, but it's sufficiently weak that I don't really want to try to draw any sort of conclusions from it.

[PeregrineV]

My argument is that you seem to think (based on your response to my points) that the explanation for scum advertising Neighbourizer was that they had a cop result on the opposite scumteam and wanted to link up. In such a case, the cop would have to be scum, = Seanald is scum. Nothing to do with what he actually claims as cop results.

From Game 1:
Subject: Mini 1198 - Marketplace Mafia - Game Over

Mod thoughts:

Under the Table Dealings:

So all of the antitown roles could communicate anonymously. The idea was that they could use this to maneuver around any breaking strategies the Town might come up with. Actually usage was a little different: bobsnox and Ghostlin both claimed who they were via UTTD messages D1. This proved particularly problematic for Ghostlin because after WeyounsLastClone was lynched, he was still outted to the other mafia. This meant that Lady Lambdadelta (who replaced bobsnox) and GreyICE both actually knew that Ghostlin was mafia D2, and GreyICE knew that Lady Lambdadelta was mafia after that. GreyICE and LLD do use the UTTD messages to collaborate D4/D5ish in terms of who does what, but it's a pretty one-sided relationship since LLD knows that she's outted.

1. Scum could have said "hey, lets get a QT" using a mechanic similar to this.
2. Scum could get cop in the future, use cop to find other scum, and then connect that way.
3. Scum could have cop now, use cop to find other scum, and then connect that way.
4. Scum could hold on to neighborizor until such point in the future where they find the other scumteam and use it then.

You keep on about Seanald being confirmed scum. I don't know, but he's probably going to be lynched purely because he bought the cop. Do you agree or disagree?

[PeregrineV]

Could we alternatively have it in the opposite direction, gnarl. What is it over the last few pages that made me suddenly scum?

yeah, and all my fans can go ahead and answer this, since nobody squeaked day1 about me being scum, for me to "suddenly" appear that way seems like you are more jumping on a wagon than bothering to scumhunt.

[PeregrineV]

Oh my fucking Jesus, Peregrine is just shooting in the dark to try to deflect attention. He suddenly has a million things to say about the game when cfj questions his alignment? Yeah sure.He's coming up with a million scenarios that make little sense, he's attacking Voided saying that he should've claimed doc. He's attacking Mehdi because he transferred which is a bit weird. However, if Mehdi was scum why would he say that? To look like really dumb town?
VOTE: Peregrine

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Let me know if you want to explain it to you.

In short:

TRANSFER FROM _____ TO ______:
Pitty to

Stephan

Seanald to

Gentlemen Bastard

Guille to

SlumberPartyBois

Philammon to

Salamence

Elmo to Tammy
Voided to Peregrine
GreyICE to greygnarl

PLAYERS NOT DOING ANY TRANSFERS:

Eidolin

BBmolla

Tazaro
Mehdi

The bolded are pretty strong town reads based on day1 play and what happened. Italics are professed non-Entrepreneurs. Based on Marketplace I- 2 scumteams of 2 + 1 3rd party in a 13 player game, Expecting 3-3-1 scum and 13 town this game isn't too farfetched. That means like 6 scum in here. Let's look at the non-bolded players.

Pitty- I think is scum.
Seanald-Got cop. 1 shot left. Probably going to be lynched to verify cop results. Scum knows this so most likely wouldn't buy cop. Plus MoI opening vote on him.
Guille- apparently cleared by Seanald using cop
Phil- kind of scummy, but mostly for early game posts
Callforjudge-I had Elmo as null, Callfor currently null leaning town for detailing funds.
Voided- Really uncertain, but let's say town for the sake of arguement because of doc crap.
Shamrock-nothing on him or GreyIce

So let's say Phil/Pitty are sum, that leaves 4 more.

Tammy- getting her town vibe early . I did state a need to re-read some of her meta, and I have yet to do it, but let's say null.
Greygarl-I thought was fairly town early game, but often find myself not thinking that, or in the minority on this read. Call it null for argument sake.
Tazaro-claimed Transferred to Medhi. Why would scum do that if they can stick to "I was supposed to keep it-look at the plan!"
Medhi-Didn't like some early posts, but others looked worse. Called MoI town even after scumslip, calls Pitty town after detailing her knowledge of the scum PM, changes the final plan so that Medhi_Tazaro transfer doesn't occur, neighbored the nightkill, transferred money to the nightkill, didn't follow the plan.

So, all 4 of these scum?
Probably not. That means other reads are off somewhere.

So, I start with the scummiest. Based on the above, who would that be?

@pere

I'm not sure why you're asking me specifically for my thoughts on your Post 1713

If you're town it looks like you're having as difficult a time with clear reads as I am. I don't have a town read on Pitty either, though from what I understand piggy likes scum better, but her play here doesn't feel like her play in the game we just finished in which she was town. And I don't think mala has really posted, and although I know her to be a bit of a lurker from time to time when she replaced into ladies night in the last night, she put in great effort and helped town win...that might have been because she was a VIG though. I'll reserve judgment until tomorrow. They're supposed to have transferred a good amount to Stefan last night and if they did, they're more likely to be town.

Seanald - I don't know what to do about seanald, but if guille is clear, I'm really disappointed in his play. He, if seanald is town, is confirmed town so should actually be putting in some effort and I'm not remembering anything from him which is worrisome.

Why so you have so many nulls? And, at the risk of being really self-absorbed, why are you null on me pending meta research? We've played several times, you've seen me as town and as scum, and you've never had to make meta research before being able to form some kind of opinion on me. The fact that you're leaving me in null feels like you're stalling to give an opinion.

Because in other games, you spoke often and with content, even if you sometimes get defensive. In my only scumgame with you, you were similar but not (Team Mafia), but I attributed it to the fact each of us was on a team more than being scummy. But, I think if you post more that I can spot that difference. And if you are town, then I can call you out to scumhunt more, like in the post above.

My problem with Pitty the hyrda is that you expect posting to be at the minimum = that of one person, if not more. So for the number of posts plus my day1 reasons, I have her/him/it hard leaning scum.
Slumber is starting in that vein also. 6000 posts day1 all up into it, and now three posts all day.

And it's not always about the null. It's the fact that if I have too many townreads, then some of them must be wrong. But callfor is semi-redeeming the Elmo slot, and if guille knows he's town and has been cleared by town, then yes, his posting is also massively delinquent.

[PeregrineV]

@Phil- do we have any town-Phil games together?

Vote: Shamrock

I had Grey as scummy (posts) to null (meta), but Shamrock is doing nothing, and he's not even a hydra.

[PeregrineV]

I won market watcher n1. As of the end of last night, excluding transferred or invested, and after all of the money actions have taken place, there is $2222 in the game.

Whoever made up the day2 list, listed me twice, so I sent half to Voided and have to N/Sala. They should receive the same amounts.

I received money from Voided last night. It probably matches whatever he claimed, but I'll have to go look again.

DV replaced Eidelon, so anyone calling him scum now when he was town before is probably scum.

[PeregrineV]

He never said, but was $187 received.

[PeregrineV]

Or new actions affected things (such as neighborizer use).

So the fact he neighborized Seanald means he's scum now?

[PeregrineV]

@Seanald- I'd like to hear more about the "why" you investigated CFJ. Detail your thought processes as it moved from Elmo to CFJ, especially in relation to his play after replacing in, and why all the other players who did NOT have "investigation Immune" were not better choices.

[PeregrineV]

So the fact he neighborized Seanald means he's scum now?

Apparently...

Since you're here, please claim, since your slot already has.

[PeregrineV]

to clear up the elmo thing, considering he was the leading wagon for a good while an investigate on him would stop a myslynch or tell us we were on the right track.

Yeah, but I'm making the assumption you had more thought put into it. Was there?

[PeregrineV]

For the lack of night kill.

GreyIce/Declan bought it n1
Scum no-shot.
Slumber roleblocked the killer
Voided protected the target
Scum targeted scum.

Deleted double post.

[PeregrineV]

Actually, has everyone followed up on those receiving money receiving it?
And everyone who supposed to bid on stuff receiving it?

[PeregrineV]

Everyone who bid supposedly won except n who just didn't bid.

Tazaro transferred money to me like he said although unlike the rest he was one who never specified the amount he planned to give.

It should be $200ish dollars minus whatever abilities he won + efficiency bonus give or take a few bucks.

[PeregrineV]

Quick read-through thoughts:

-I agree with the boiz about Tammy's early play.
-Seanald's 73 is scummy. Jumping on the tammy wagon for a different reason, and it's not good either.
-I don't necessarily agree with the boiz about Tammy-town. I don't think she's as scummy, but still.
-I think the boiz are town, but GI's vote for them incriminates them.

I'm only up to page 10 (but will do more later!) and at this point think that I could end up going for a Tazaro or Phil lynch (even though I may have not read their posts yet) Most of the active posters (that are still alive) seem pretty town, except of course Sean.

You gotta be quicker. We get more money the shorter the day is.

[PeregrineV]

urgh, I told Magua I'd be slow to catch up, but I'll try. Really it's just the next day that's busy for me, so if you want you can lynch without me being fully caught up, but as I said, I'll do some more reading.

@DV- 2140

[PeregrineV]

Conspicuous consumer, so what Nero claimed.

Are you a miller?

[PeregrineV]

Oh, and people most implicated by a Seanald scumflip are Peregrine to some extent (Neighbourizer shenanigans) and DeasVail (for similar reasons).

I'd like to hear more on this. If Senald flips scum, there's no implication for his investigated targets, but on me for {What exactly?} and Eid claimed Consp Consumer. If Eid wasn't scum before, how did DV become scum?

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine: Acted really weird when the tiniest bit of pressure was put on him. Claiming the Oracle so late was also odd and I would like to hear HIS reasoning for doing it before I determine if it's evidence.

I haven't had any pressure on me yet.
I claimed the Oracle when I had the information. Why does this bother you?
And what reasoning do you want?

[PeregrineV]

I actually had a half-written post in another tab exploring the possibility of guille-scum (based on his wall)

I somewhat agree with this, but Seanald dying as town would clear guille.

[PeregrineV]

Should we advertize Neighborizer? Remember that Eid gets the power too, so advertizing for NK will give her the night kill.

Just found this (was looking through the ISOs of flipped scum to try to see if I could connect SPB's theorized scumteams to them). Breadcrumb to opposite scumteam, perhaps?

733

[PeregrineV]

If we kill Taz and Sean and Sean flips town then we clear Guille and DV.

pedit: It doesn't matter/I trust SPB.

How would DV be cleared if Seanald flips town?

Please claim if you will have more money or will have more money than me. Securing the NK is the absolute most important thing right now because of how much better slumber is at this than the rest of us. Unless you got transfers from cfj be wary. Of course scum came through before, see Shamrock, but it might not happen every time. Especially if you were getting money from Sean.

It was mentioned how awesome it was you got the NK for only $1. Why do you think they didn't bother to contest it at all?

[PeregrineV]

Mehdi: I'm trying to work out a completely unambiguous way of defining roles atm.

Actually, after trying (I can post what I have so far if people like), this is probably a bad idea. Either there'll be scope for interpretation, or the definitions will be so complex people can claim not to understand them because tl;dr or mistakes. And many categories might have no ability in them anyway.

Rather, probably the best solution is: we nominate one person to buy Cop (SPB seems to be in the best position for this, assuming everyone's happy with him being town), one person to buy Nightkill (this isn't vital, but each NK that ends up in town hands gives us an extra mislynch, which is quite a lot), and given that the abilities are all given numbers by Magua, assign people to "first non-Cop non-NK ability", "second non-Cop non-NK ability", and so on. The other advantage this has is that without any way of knowing in advance what abilities are there, there's no chance of anyone manipulating scum to get something they particularly need.

It seems if we lynch Seanald and he's town, then guille is confirmed town, and should buy the cop.

If we are having cop go to someone that is not confirmed town, then they need to accept the fact they will be lynched to confirm their results. I don't think slumber is up for that.

[PeregrineV]

Oh, and people most implicated by a Seanald scumflip are Peregrine to some extent (Neighbourizer shenanigans) and DeasVail (for similar reasons).

I'd like to hear more on this. If Senald flips scum, there's no implication for his investigated targets, but on me for {What exactly?} and Eid claimed Consp Consumer. If Eid wasn't scum before, how did DV become scum?

The theory for you is based on the weird advertising result; you'd be in the best position to manipulate advertisements because you were bidding on them, but the most obvious reason to do that would be if you'd somehow discovered the opposite scumteam, or thought you would soon, and the easiest method with which to do that would be Seanald's Cop shots. If Seanald is town, there's no obvious method via which the scumteams could have linked.

Tammy getting outbid makes this line of reasoning rather weaker in retrospect (I hadn't fully thought the implications through when SPB were questioning me). If scum wanted neighbourizer badly enough to outbid her, they probably wanted it badly enough to outbid you too, so the situation became more null.

In DV's case, he aimed his advertised Neighbourize at Seanald, or claimed to. If DV is fakeclaiming, he'd have to aim it at a buddy so as not to be exposed. If Seanald flips town, then DV was telling the truth about his role, and although proven role doesn't necessarily mean proven alignment, I have a hard time seeing that role belonging to groupscum. This theory didn't hold for Eidolon because she wasn't around when the slot got the Neighbourizer power (and she'd agreed to use it on Mehdi, which was an entirely sensible plan).

Convoluted logic, since I advertized cop for $152. All it takes to win is to advertize more than that.

Anyways, can you explain why we are not lynching Seanald and letting his townflip determine who gets the cop, and otherwise make alternate plans for his scumflip?

[PeregrineV]

Anyways, can you explain why we are not lynching Seanald and letting his townflip determine who gets the cop, and otherwise make alternate plans for his scumflip?

This is bad. Regardless of what Seanald flips. If he flips town, by your logic it would be me to buy the cop power. However, I practically have no money. It would be relatively inexpensive for mafia to get the cop out of town hands. Now, the best option is for SBP to grab it.

Greygnarl got the NK for a buck. Every single day-plan is predicated on scum being happy with the town plan and letting it go through. If Seanld-town=you-town, why shouldn't you get the cop if you bid all you money on it and town isn't countering you? Why would scum want cop over NK?

[PeregrineV]

Anyways, can you explain why we are not lynching Seanald and letting his townflip determine who gets the cop, and otherwise make alternate plans for his scumflip?

This is bad. Regardless of what Seanald flips. If he flips town, by your logic it would be me to buy the cop power. However, I practically have no money. It would be relatively inexpensive for mafia to get the cop out of town hands. Now, the best option is for SBP to grab it.

Greygnarl got the NK for a buck. Every single day-plan is predicated on scum being happy with the town plan and letting it go through. If Seanld-town=you-town, why shouldn't you get the cop if you bid all you money on it and town isn't countering you? Why would scum want cop over NK?

[PeregrineV]

I won market watcher n1. As of the end of last night, excluding transferred or invested, and after all of the money actions have taken place, there is $2222 in the game.

As of the end of last night, $2244 in the game.

Whoever made up the day2 list, listed me twice, so I sent half to Voided and have to N/Sala. They should receive the same amounts.

I'd like confirmation from both players that they received the money.

[PeregrineV]

Normally, I wouldn't say I told you so, but, since I did, I told you so.

Also, based on guille squirming over buying cop if Seanald flipped town, I'm guessing guille is also left-hand mafia, or at least knew Seanald wouldn't flip town.

Did someone verify that all auctions were won by the designated players, and has the uses/non-uses of those been discussed?

Why is BBMolla, the "bum" who dayvigged MoI, transferring money when he's most likely town?

[PeregrineV]

@DV- Would like a paraphrase of the neighborhood QT you had with Seanald.

[PeregrineV]

Yea


1. BBmolla
4. Guille2015
12. PeregrineV
17. Phillammon
20. N (replaces Salamence20)

Scum/anti-town remaining after Pitty are all in here that is all

This is like a win already

DV can investigate me, you, or Phill. That will help clear the air somewhat.

[PeregrineV]

I don't need to be investigated. I have one opposer that will never can traction.

Investigate Phil or Guille

I was doing such a good job

Guille is probably guilty based on his reaction yesterday.

You're directing town, so confirmation would be superb.

A cleared Medhi would also be nice.

[PeregrineV]

I won my auction. Hopefully town won the NK. Fairly sure Right hand is gone, too, so we're just left with a 2-man scumteam at most.

I can follow a Guille lynch, but remind me why N is town again? I forgot my read.

Vote: Guille

Read 190-250 Death of MoI. Sala puts in a good perferomance that seems to indicate he's not on team-MoI.

[PeregrineV]

Yeah that was stupid (not sure why I got elmo and sham mixed up).

Currently thinking of lynch guille, shoot PV, investigate philla. Cops can't sense 3rd parties which is why checking deas who has a decent chance still of being one isn't my preferred cop choice right now (although next night if needed sure).

So why Guille, me, Phil and Deas? Isn't Deas cleared for outting Pitty?

And Deas should have a innocent or guilty. Would like to hear that before too long.

[PeregrineV]

Also, did people advertise watcher at any point? Why would accountant win?

[PeregrineV]

Nevermind, just word-searched the thread. I advertised watcher instead of accountant, since that's what I thought I read.

@Voided- for me it was more of DV outing scum. If he was on the opposing team, he wouldn't out them.

[PeregrineV]

I was thinking fee usage of a set, and cop comes in x2.

Oh well.

DV still has an Oracle use also. So only one person use it today.

Like to hear from Phil and Guille today.

[PeregrineV]

Phil & guille posts completely underwhelming.

Would prefer to lynch Guille, N can check me, then we don't have to kill anyone. N can investigate someone else the next night, and we can save the NK for if we need it later. The timer on a game is usually the scum killing off town each night. That's not an issue this game, so I think using the abilities while not wasting them is the best bet.

[PeregrineV]

Is there anyway we can determine how much is in mafia's hands from this? And did you get confirmation?

Reading back through, not sure if I answered this.

Only if we all claim and someone's numbers don't match.

Voided and N both claimed the same amount, which was accurate based on what I sent.

[PeregrineV]

So did someone Medium grey? Has anyone mediumed anyone town at all yet?

Vote: Guille

Stefan can hammer tomorrow, hopefully after answers to above.

[PeregrineV]

Funny how I was a popular scum target despite being town and making cases on scum. The only one I didn't was Mehdi, and had no clue about GreyIce (but Shamrock was bad coming in).

@Guille- why did you respond like that when I suggested you get the cop?

@Magua- Great game. I want to look over the PMs closer and read the QTs, but I enjoyed it again, both mechanics, flavor and mod timeliness.

Great job on most of town at actually coming across as really town!

[PeregrineV]

hey pv, what messed up in your transfer n4?

Nothing I think. I just invested some and sent some to DV and Molla.

Transfer: Slumber $50
Transfer: DeasVail $25
Transfer: BBmolla $25
Invest: $100
Advertise: Watcher $46