Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[fferyllt]

hi guys

[fferyllt]

I've been thinking about that newbie game. I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is.

[fferyllt]

I'm so sorry that you drew scum, fery. Best we get this over with quickly.
VOTE: fferyllt

damn you're good.

[fferyllt]

fiery, pjo, tell me about pjo's scum game, or at least point me to the ones that you are talking about.

I haven't seen his scum game. I replaced into a newbie game that he had earlier replaced out of. The first 3 pages of that game were hilarious and Pjo IMO played a significant role in tripping up one scum player who just could not let go of his play or his replacement.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=27639

It was a perfect town win.

[fferyllt]

I haven't seen his scum game.

So why do you think that he gambits as either alignment?

I was asking mrbungles because they've played together elsewhere.

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

[fferyllt]

that would be kinda dumb actually.

[fferyllt]

your jedi mind tricks won't work on me, MattP.

[fferyllt]

ffery, needs to explain how pjo tripped up scum in the game she lynched because it looks like she buddying with him for an illegitimate reason at the moment.

I'd like it if mrbungle told me what game he knows pjo from.

Whimsy is actually scum, so people should vote her.

Pjo was so obviously town by page 2 of that game. MsM, however, just could not let go of the idea that he had initially behaved as though he were very newb and then a page later showed some depth of mafia strategy. She focused on the ruse and ignored or couldn't see the reason behind it. She moved on to other targets but kept coming back to that slot and arguing with Pjo and later his replacement. It was painfully scummy looking.

I was happy to see he signed up for this game and I'm looking forward to playing with him.

[fferyllt]

1) Im happy you're townreading people but don't set a precedent for stupidity, syryana respects you a lot and if you keep doing that he may start making reads lists

Reads lists!

Town: Tammy, Tierce, Enomis

Probably Town: Zdenek

Not Town: Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo

No clue: Errbody else

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

[fferyllt]

A scum-made townread can have basically two motivations: either it's a townread on a scumbuddy to tone down suspicion on him (there was no substantial suspicion on matt at that time, so this is not the case), or it's a "buddying attempt", for lack of a better word. Basically a "look at how cool and correct my reads are, scum would never be this cool and correct"
This specific situation looks more like the second.

I don't think either of them are scum, but I've seen plenty of scum giving their scumbuddies a Townread from the get go.

It's easier to prevent suspicion from ever arising

than having to fight it back down later.

Except this doesn't happen, especially if you put zero effort and explanation into giving out this read.

I almost never see mafia do this tbh.

Then again, on my homesite, mafia don't give townreads to their scumbuddies at all, unless they play REALLY baller and get strongly misread by the majority of town already.
And even then, some weak and subtle suspicion you put on them works far better for at least one of the parties involved.

Maybe mafiascum is different in that regard.
I know I was very surprised when the two scum defended each other hardcore in the newbie I played (that was after i had already replaced out), right down to the noose, right after the situation was already unsalvageable.
But I didn't think newbies were too indicative of global site meta.

Where I used to play it's quite rare for scum to give a townread on fellow scum, to the point where after scum flip you look closely at the player's null and scum reads. I have been really surprised at some of the fellow scum townreads I've seen from scum here. But, it's certainly not universal.

[fferyllt]

1) Im happy you're townreading people but don't set a precedent for stupidity, syryana respects you a lot and if you keep doing that he may start making reads lists

Reads lists!

Town: Tammy, Tierce, Enomis

Probably Town: Zdenek

Not Town: Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo

No clue: Errbody else

I like your town list. I'd add mrbungle to the probtown.

withholding judgement on Pjo.

And you're town.

aaand probtown on Pjo.

[fferyllt]

Ffery is explicitly ignoring the pressure on him because you're all letting him

I'm not a him.

[fferyllt]

Also, it's not really pressure. It's some amorphous unarticulated something-or-other. If you want me to do something about your pressure, maybe be a little more explicit about your concerns.

[fferyllt]

One post by whimsical, with the might-be slip. This game isn't exactly on fire with posts, but that's still pretty low involvement.

That's where my vote would go given the current state of the game.

[fferyllt]

Something happened between those two vote counts. 4% battery drain.

[fferyllt]

2. Battery-Powered Deadlines. Deadlines in this game (outside Apocalypse) are measured via a meter that starts at 100% and counts down each real-time day by a varying amount. The amount is based on true activity. If the meter reaches 0%, the Day immediately ends.

So 4% seems like not very much at all. I wonder if "true activity" means the battery drains faster or slower.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: mattp

You have 5 pages to town tell...go!

In very strong agreement with zdenek. Spamming should be avoided, especially content less spamming as that drains the battery.

did he?

[fferyllt]

aaand probtown on Pjo.

Why?

If you want a specific reason, the comment about QTs is a good one. But, it wasn't one specific thing. I like his lil dashes.

[fferyllt]

He posted on site twice on Sunday.

I have been waiting to see his response to the reactions to his first post. Since he's been around to respond and hasn't done so,

VOTE: whimsical eggplant

I believe that's L-3.

[fferyllt]

What is this. A super-delayed vote?

I'm pretty deliberate with my vote on day 1. Was planning to wait another day or two and see what he has to say in response, but the fact that whimsical eggplant has been around and posting yesterday but didn't check back in here bothers me. He has a case to respond to.

[fferyllt]

Did it occured to you: (zach, fferyllt and pjovek) that he did not read this thread considering his post is only 2 at other forums and they are only 2 mins apart. Which means there is a high chance that he viewed other forums on mobile and did not read this thread( my interpretation) Thoughts?

A mobile driveby did not occur to me, no. Though you're right that the activity level suggests a driveby.

Do you have a problem with him being at L-2 given your case?

[fferyllt]

Did it occured to you: (zach, fferyllt and pjovek) that he did not read this thread considering his post is only 2 at other forums and they are only 2 mins apart. Which means there is a high chance that he viewed other forums on mobile and did not read this thread( my interpretation) Thoughts?

A mobile driveby did not occur to me, no. Though you're right that the activity level suggests a driveby.

Do you have a problem with him being at L-2 given your case?

Stahp it.
He's at L-1.

You sure? zachrules voted twice because he wasn't sure the name abbreviation would count.

[fferyllt]

on and off the wagon.

[fferyllt]

I am terrible at counting.

[fferyllt]

Can someone unvote, please? I don't like that wagon, and I especially don't like that L-1 this early into the game.

Ok.

UNVOTE: whimsical eggplant

[fferyllt]

All it took was for Tierce to ask nicerly ffery?

pretty much. I don't think one vote (which I'll put back on the wagon if whimsical eggplant's eventual response is underwhelming) makes a huge difference pressure-wise, and removing it mitigates the risk of a derphammer.

[fferyllt]

All it took was for Tierce to ask nicerly ffery?

pretty much. I don't think one vote (which I'll put back on the wagon if whimsical eggplant's eventual response is underwhelming) makes a huge difference pressure-wise, and removing it mitigates the risk of a derphammer.

Au contraire

Maybe it makes no difference in regard to Eggplant himself, but it is a glorious game of chicken in regard to the people on the wagon itself.
It is sad you flaked so early.

I don't have a lot of stomach for chicken, though I am working on it. instant majority lynch is a second language.

[fferyllt]

Tierce

, how do this games mechanics affect your read on Whimsy and the wagon on her?

pjo, why'd you think to vote Sword of Omens when you did?

About Ffery: she said "I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is." When I asked her about it, she replied with "I was asking mrbungles because they've played together elsewhere." There was no question mark in her original post - this has been bothering me for a while, but I'm worried that it's just me being pedantic. I agree with Matt that this comment: "But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment" looks baseless, since she was (apparently) asking mrbungles about pjo's scum play. It could simply just be that he's easy to spot as scum.

It obvious that ffrey was buddying with pjo, and I don't understand her prob-town read on mrbungles.

So there are somethings that I don't like here. I still don't think that she's as bad as Whimsical Eggplant or mrbungles.

I find mrbungle's paranoia about me refreshing and it's part of the reason why I think he's town. This is the first game we've played from the start, and I think if he'd had only a few posts to read instead of dozens in the dragonballz micro game he'd have had similar misgivings.

pjo I can't explain, really. Call it gut. I had a strong town read on his slot in the newbie game I linked to when I did my catch-up read after replacing in at 15 pages of day 1. I've wondered if I just read that style of play as town by default. But, until I find I'm wrong, I'll trust my gut.

I'm not shy about giving out town reads. I'm not shy about retracting them, either, but don't usually need to.

[fferyllt]

Why pjovek is scum:

1. Anti-town proposal of the mass universe claim.

2. Vote on Sword of Omens looks more like trying to look like he's doing something than actually doing something.

3. He made up a false reason to be suspicious of Sword - that Sword promised to continue lurking. When I called him out on it he kept pushing it.

4. When I questioned him about what he thought of policy lynching in this game rather than just answering he attempts to cast suspicion on to me for trying to instill fear and paranoia about the wagon. Now he's asking me why I chose to appeal to emotion, which never happened, and he's refusing to point out what he's talking about, and deciding to accuse me of not reading.

I thought your theory is that I am scum and buddying pjovik up.

[fferyllt]

So, town vibe from Zdenek, too, it seems.

Scum need to come out and play.

[fferyllt]

@Oversoul: What exactly about the Zach votes that's "bad"? If anything, some of Zach's responses to Tierce on top of what she's calling him out for are pretty bad.

I find her accusations against Zach to be pretty bad.

She's voting him for seeing similar play? The way she makes his actions out to be is "Zach, you said Pjo is playing like Faraday". Zach could have avoided this situation altogether by not even mentioning the other game.

I'm willing to let Tierce take this further since she has a better feel for Zach's play, but I think that reason is completely bunk.

She's now voting me, not Zach.

[fferyllt]

but when I see someone with a scummy for Best Town Performance doing lazy/bad things like this it calls for some voteage. And I'm shamelessly sheeping Tierce.

Oh dear god...

Have you actually read the game that won that award? You probably should.

I guess Thor's thread does have some credence.

I'm not entirely sure I like how the Tierce and Zach interaction ended. It looks like it was charging up to be something big and then it just ends abruptly.

And people don't policy-lynch nearly enough, actually.

Policy lynches are the best thing since sliced bread.

You seem more in tune with mafia than your join date implies... Are you an alt?

There is remarkably little to be gained by waiting around and doing nothing.

Au contraire.

I was under the impression that it was for 'out of context' arguments. Either way Zach doesn't give me a good vibe, vastly different from our time together in team mafia.

Oh well.

Time together in team mafia?
You weren't on his team and you didn't play in his specific game.

@Oversoul: What exactly about the Zach votes that's "bad"? If anything, some of Zach's responses to Tierce on top of what she's calling him out for are pretty bad.

I find her accusations against Zach to be pretty bad.

She's voting him for seeing similar play? The way she makes his actions out to be is "Zach, you said Pjo is playing like Faraday". Zach could have avoided this situation altogether by not even mentioning the other game.

I'm willing to let Tierce take this further since she has a better feel for Zach's play, but I think that reason is completely bunk.

She's now voting me, not Zach.

And...?

At least I can agree with her vote on you.

You were going on about her voting Zach. I was just pointing out that she's moved on. /pedant

[fferyllt]

I am getting the feeling that whimsical would be replaced and we can't question him further on his post. Hurray!

Yep. And if it was just an unfortunate misread or something on whimsical eggplant's part, that's probably an overall plus. If not, the slot will at least be under scrutiny.

[fferyllt]

I do think the content of Whimsey's one post is worth lynching for.

But I'd be happy to see ffrey or pjovek lynched as well. Them be my scumreads.

If you lynch me and I flip town, what will that do to your pjovek read?

[fferyllt]

obvtown is in the eye of the beholder, unfortunately.

[fferyllt]

Is that addressed to me?

If so, why do you think that?

Right now, I have a handful of unsupported votes on me. When you tell me why you think I'm scum I'll respond to that.

[fferyllt]

I do think the content of Whimsey's one post is worth lynching for.

But I'd be happy to see ffrey or pjovek lynched as well. Them be my scumreads.

If you lynch me and I flip town, what will that do to your pjovek read?

The basis of my read isn't based entirely on a link. If you flipped town I would still find pjovek scummy.

I hope you'll take my reads into account when I eventually flip. There are a lot of players I am unfamiliar with in this game. The ones I know, my reads may be useful to town.

[fferyllt]

So do you think my read of pjovek is wrong? I'm not really sure what you think about anyone else in the game other than whimsey and that's why I don't have a good feeling about you.

Then, I guess you haven't iso'd me. I agreed with the town part of Syr's first readslist. I added mrbungle and pjovik to probtown.

Good scum reads usually take time for me to develop unless someone I have a lot of meta on draws a scum role.

I feel like my bandwagon is probably mostly town-driven atm.

[fferyllt]

Is that addressed to me?

If so, why do you think that?

Right now, I have a handful of unsupported votes on me. When you tell me why you think I'm scum I'll respond to that.

But you're not even remotely interested in those votes or the fact that they are unexplained. It's mind-boggling. You just don't care, and that doesn't seem natural.

Syryana--I'd like your input here.

I'm quite interested in the votes and am avidly watching how my wagon develops.

[fferyllt]

Let's start with the easy part: explain your Townreads.

Syr looks town to me. Of his town reads, I feel like I have enough read of my own to agree that you are town and I'm trusting that he can townread the others.

Based on the one completed game that mrbungles and I have played, I have him leaning town. He replaced late into day 1 and had 100+ posts of mine to evaluate. Even so, iirc he came up with a weak town read. In this game, with a handful of posts to evaluate, I am not at all surprised that he was reading me as scum.

Pjovik is mostly gut, but I feel pretty good about him being town.

Matt5 is null. He and I are in two ongoing games, but since I'm part of a hydra in both of them I doubt I made much of an impression. I thought at first that his vote on me was gambit, but I've changed my mind. I think he'd seriously like to see me lynched, whatever his alignment.

[fferyllt]

Forgot zdnek. There's a tinge of paranoia to his posts that I associate with town, so that's where I am leaning atm.

[fferyllt]

That was not an explanation of Townreads. There's no reasoning evident in any of them except Zdenek. For someone who is slow and deliberate on D1, I would expect to have considerably more on your reads than you appear to have.

heh. I'm multitasking atm. I thought you wanted a quick answer.

I'll write up something more detailed after my conference call wraps up. However, I'm not much for walls, so more detail is a relative term.

[fferyllt]

Pjovik is not the person with the most posts in the thread. I think the spam complaints are a little overblown.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... rt_order=d

[fferyllt]

So, that reads list. I don't usually give detailed reads at this point in a game, and I'm sorely tempted to tell you to piss up a tree, Tierce. But, in the interest of helping you and others get a sense of my game I'm cooperating. Though, I am pretty sure that a quick scan through the completed town and scum games listed on my wiki page would be perhaps shed a little light. I'll caution, though, that my MS game-face is still evolving based on how things go game-by-game. Play as a hydra has also had an impact. I tend to be the quieter partner. I'm used to drawing early day 1 suspicions for my play here. I've toned down the aggressiveness some since my earliest town games, but I'm not sure that aggressive play was what set teeth on edge initially, anyway.

Syr's one of the lynchpins in my reads atm. I've played several games with him, though all have been town games, and I've seen a fairly wide range of town-Syr behaviors in the various games. From meta, I know that his scum game is not easy to spot, and it's possible I'm missing it here, but I kinda doubt it. For now I'm considering him town. Nacho seems to be influencing his game, and I think I am seeing some of that influence in his play this time - specifically the tempo of his dance with Tammy and his conclusion that she's town. Based on my own generic thumbnails I haven't seen anything to counter the Tammy read. In fact, her relaxed playfulness and scattershot posting fits one town thumbnail pretty well.

So, to his reads list:

1) Im happy you're townreading people but don't set a precedent for stupidity, syryana respects you a lot and if you keep doing that he may start making reads lists

Reads lists!

Town: Tammy, Tierce, Enomis

Probably Town: Zdenek

Not Town: Eggplant, Matt, fery, Pjo

No clue: Errbody else

I accepted Tierce and Enomis based on not seeing anything particularly scummy looking in their posts at the time, but have since firmed up my own thoughts

Tierce is pushing people for explanations - well, some people. She hasn't pushed me for anything but reads. Her concern about the whimsical eggplant bandwagon looks townish-MS since there's an expectation that if a person doesn't come back and answer questions they will be replaced. MS-acclimated scum on the other hand might be more interested in pushing that bandwagon through.

Enomis' quick jump on Whimsical's potential slip looks either hyper-vigilant town or possibly (lower likelihood imo) scum who has had similar thoughts or conversations. But, the concern when this bandwagon took off, the check on other postings and pointing up the possibility of a quick mobile catch-up looks like a town player worried about a bandwagon suddenly picking up an unusual amount of steam, and trying to apply brakes.

So, my counter-to-the-prevailing-winds reads of mrbungle and pjovik.

They both play on a site where game days are short - 48 hours, I think, and although majority lynch is often the format, from what I've seen reaching 50% + 1 does not end the game day. Players can run the bandwagon beyond that threshold and back down.

I learned mafia on sites with 12-24 hour game days and plurality lynch. At MS, due to still not quite getting all the nuances of majority lynch ending the day, I tend to be either way overcautious about bandwagons or sometimes leap with alarming speed on a fast moving wagon. If you want examples of games where I've done one or the other, let me know and I'll provide links. Overall, I'm tending toward over-cautious at MS, but want to add back some assertiveness because I believe I'm more effective that way.

Anyway, that's a bit of a digression but it's important because it's why I am pretty good at reading players from similar backgrounds. But, I have some concern that I default to thinking the background-influenced style is town.

The MS norm of inactive players being eventually replaced is not a universal thing. pjovik plays where that assumption is not valid. IMO, pjovik's attitude toward the whimsical eggplant wagon is shaped by his mafia background, and I'm reading it as town in this context. I also am reading his gambiting as town. In the newbie game I linked and mentioned earlier he gambited with some posts that look anti-town on the face of it, quickly rounded on the people who reacted, and had a dramatic effect, ending what is fondly known as rvs in these parts.

I think his play in this game had similar effect.

re bungles, as I've said, the paranoia doesn't surprise me since this is our first time starting a game together, though I guess it does disappoint me a little. I've had the impression that I'm an easy read for him and others who who play the game offsite, which has been kinda refreshing. His low participation would be worrying me, but when I let him know about this game in sign-ups he mentioned that he would not be around much if the game started up soon. And it did start up soon.

[fferyllt]

Pjovik is not the person with the most posts in the thread. I think the spam complaints are a little overblown.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... rt_order=d

My point didn't have anything to do with how much spam he personally did or did not post, or even how much exists in the game.

Could you restate your point? It seems to have something to do with minimizing spam. Does it have to do with pjovik's stated intent not to post for a day?

[fferyllt]

Read 286 in response to 285.

I guess I'm still confused about the spamming complaint in the first place. Was it because he made a series of posts in a row? He's not the only person to do that.

The early exchange between Tammy and Syr was actually more thread-filling, though I realize it firmed up reads for those two.

[fferyllt]

I'm guessing he's never played a game with buldermar. XD

I'm sensitive to the complaint because my style of interaction/townhunting/scumhunting is partially analysis of posts but also highly dependent on conversational mode in the game thread, which annoys the fuck out of some players. I try to be sensitive to the concerns.

[fferyllt]

I am not a he.

[fferyllt]

@Katsuki, did you read the Syry part of that gawdawful wall I posted at the top of this page?

[fferyllt]

@Katsuki, did you read the Syry part of that gawdawful wall I posted at the top of this page?

All I saw was various town-syry behaviour in various games, and scum-game being hard to mask.

What about this game makes him/her/it town?

Him. I have a pretty detailed baseline at this point after playing 3 completed games...maybe more, I could be forgetting a game or two, and reading a few games on meta dives. We've also discussed a lot of mafia theory and approach while planning to play some games as a hydra. I am not absolutely certain I'd spot his scum game. But, I feel like this game so far is so well within the space of that baseline that I'm ok calling him town for now.

I'm not shy about changing my reads on people. If I change my mind, you'll know.

[fferyllt]

I'm on a picnic and would appreciate if nothing stupid was done before I have access to a computer again.

Town.

[fferyllt]

Big freaking surprise, fferyllt. I'm one of the most easily distinguishable players on the site if people can be bothered to read up on my games.

The irony.

[fferyllt]

There's no bad logic there. You're trying to dodge me, Matt. Please explain your reasoning.

You're saying it's an "easy" vote as if "easy" and "scummy" are mutually exclusive

I don't like this logic, you know it sucks and you know I wouldn't go for an easy vote like that

Ffery didn't build steam and it was a scare tactic based on a fairly reasonable scummy post from ffery

Since I'm at L-1 I'm going to claim now. I'm a VT, my name is Rosalina, from Mario

You are at L-1? What?

[fferyllt]

Hey I just want to point out that we had a slow-ass posting day and our battery drained further than any other day so far.

So stfu about spam.

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

[fferyllt]

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

befuddled. It seems to be something new every game.

[fferyllt]

Put your vote back on me. maybe you can save your scumbuddy.

[fferyllt]

I am not a he.

When I am ready to vote again I will vote.

speaking of pushing a mislynch, where's that case you never made?

[fferyllt]

Oh I'm sorry I thought I was voting you

VOTE: ffery

Do you feel better now?

Yeah I am sure you forgot all about putting Antagon at L-1.

[fferyllt]

Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

I was ON Whimsical Eggplant when I did this, your logic insinuates that I was trying to absorb the lynch on my scumbuddy who I was voting to protect a PR

What the fuck does that even mean

Yeah, nobody's ever heard of distancing.

[fferyllt]

I am not a he.

When I am ready to vote again I will vote.

speaking of pushing a mislynch, where's that case you never made?

ITT ffery ignores the shit post he just made to ask a stupid question

You have a lot of room to talk

[fferyllt]

In post 396, fferyllt wrote:
Re Matt, what's the odds that he's trying to save a powerful scum role with this performance?

^scumpost^

I thought you and antagon were the same person when I posted this

But you shouldn't take that to be true because that would ruin your shit, illogical excuse for me being scum

Interesting how the thread cleared out after we got into it.

[fferyllt]

What does that have to do with anything

I'm not sure.

[fferyllt]

The troll was me acting confused about how lynches work

If you think that I did that for towncred then fine but stop being moronic

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

[fferyllt]

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

Lolwut? So I'm genuine town but lying at the same time?

No, I don't think you are lying, not with that reaction.

[fferyllt]

Ok, so this was a genuine reaction, I think. All that capslock was bullshit.

Lolwut? So I'm genuine town but lying at the same time?

No, I don't think you are lying, not with that reaction.

Why do you think that reaction can't be faked?

Mostly because of how fast the whole exchange happened.

[fferyllt]

Put your vote back on me. maybe you can save your scumbuddy.

If you feel this way certainly it makes sense to be voting for one of the two, like right now.

I won't be chivvied into voting before I'm ready to vote.

[fferyllt]

Put your vote back on me. maybe you can save your scumbuddy.

If you feel this way certainly it makes sense to be voting for one of the two, like right now.

I won't be chivvied into voting before I'm ready to vote.

I bring it up because I'm having trouble understanding your mindset. You're arguing from a position of apparent certainty not only in a scumread, but a pairing, but you don't have a vote to back it up. I don't understand that.

I made that comment mostly to draw a reaction. I am not displeased with the ensuing storm tbh. I do have a scum read on Antagon's slot. Matt just confuses me. I thought he looked more townish for it last night. Tierce's comments make sense. But, I dunno. I feel like I should trust my own read.

If I'm wrong about Matt and I put Antagon at L-1, then what do you expect Matt will do?

[fferyllt]

If drawing scum frequently was key in scumhunting I'd be the worst town player on earth. I went through a 50 game streak once without a single scum role. Overall (not just at MS) I've had more 3rd party roles than town roles.

[fferyllt]

not town roles. scum roles. I've been town tons of times.

[fferyllt]

I'm more or less ready to vote now, but I don't want to potentially cut needed discussion off if someone comes right behind me with a vote. I don't feel like players have particularly sorted me and in fact feel like sorting me fell through the cracks during the MattP discussion.

[fferyllt]

I'm hesitant because some of you obviously know MattP's game quite well, but he has come off as genuine IMO and I'm leaning town. I feel like pushing him on this is becoming a waste of game-time.

[fferyllt]

I'm hesitant because some of you obviously know MattP's game quite well, but he has come off as genuine IMO and I'm leaning town. I feel like pushing him on this is becoming a waste of game-time.

So, who are your scum reads?

I still think Antagon looks bad and I am not sure what to make of his claim. SOO bothers me. And I don't like hp_leaves nearly as much as I did mrbungles.

My town read of Syry has gotten kinda stale, though I know he's been busy IRL. Looking forward to an in-game chat with him tomorrow.

And there are a few players that just don't seem to register at all. I started rereading the thread this afternoon, but that's been pre-empted by an offsite game that's moving at a very rapid pace atm. I'll finish the reread either later tonight or tomorrow.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: mattp

You have 5 pages to town tell...go!

That's contingent on there being a dumbass in the game

Ummm
Hello

You are playing with me
heyo

Matt looks town

Why does Matt look town?

The gambit thing looks like Matt from First Time the whole gambit thing. Plus I'd rather Matt be town than scum since it will make my life so much easier.
Flavor for this game is uh... Gonna be interesting to say the least.

Tierce does it ring any bells to you? Based on the comments made by certain players?

Was the bolded ever answered?

[fferyllt]

Rereading the early part of the thread, it struck me that Whimsical Eggplant could have simply misremembered who said that discussing mass claim was a bad idea when he wrote that one post. There were intermingled conversations happening.

Also, I miss Pjovik. The game thread is more fun when he is posting.

[fferyllt]

ffrey, which three players would you kill if you had a choice?

I am going to answer this tomorrow, after I've soaked on my reread.

[fferyllt]

Oh hi! I've been hoping you'd show up.

I'm kinda concerned about hp_leaves and SoO after rereading last night.

I had forgotten why I thought Oversoul was town, but rereading, I feel pretty good about him being town.

zachrules has posted quite a bit. I can't decide if I just disagree with him frequently or he's coming to the game with a different motivation.

[fferyllt]

I agree; I don't like sword either. Why hp leaves? Didn't he replace bungle (who you had a townread on)? What are you trying to say about zach (like, do you think he's scummy, null, what don't you like about him)?

Even though he didn't give a reason, the timing of mrbungle's 2nd vote on me fit and even sort of anticipated later reactions. hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

The one thing that I really like about hp's posts is 551

I'll post about zachrules in a bit. I'm still isoing him.

[fferyllt]

Zachrules

He had an early hyper focus on pjovik, and in post 106 actually said he was barely paying attention to anything else going on in the game. As other players commented, he grabbed on to their reasoning (in some cases reasoning that did not result in votes of their own) to flesh out his case. posts 134 and 135.

135 is interesting, because he was responding to a post about Whimsical Eggplant and Matt but to make more argument for voting pjovik.

So, here I'm wondering if this is townish tunneling or not. It's definitely not moving with the town herd as new data hit the thread and affected other players' trajectories.

141 reinforces my thoughts about post 134.

Post 182 in reply to Syryana gives at least some trajectory to the vote change to whimsical, so props for that. He refers to his pjovik vote as "silly" in this post, but maintains a level of suspicion about him.

In 210, 248 and 298 this could be trajectory set up for a vote change. 298 consolidates into a scum list.

I push for some interaction and get it starting in 307, but I don't get any sense from that convo that he's making an effort to sort me - it's me keeping it going. This is contrast to Tierce, who pushed

me

though she didn't really follow up after getting what she wanted for starters (a reads list). Three players he suspects, two of whom were active in the thread and not much questioning at all.

This is actually kinda true of Tammy as well. She hollers for Syry to come and tell her what he thinks about me, and mentions reading three of my prior games. But, this could be legitimately holding back observations as to not taint the waters, and possibly to get a better read on Syry as well as to confirm/refute her impressions from my prior games.

Back to zachrules. 309 shows that he hadn't really read my posts, since I had made a number of comments about who I had town reads on at that points. My vote indicated where my greatest suspicions lay at that point.

314 the disclaimer and a door out of his current scum reads. Why spell that out?

321 subsequent posts of pjovik's he's talking about were that discussion on whether "spam" was battery-draining or not. (based on the battery drain that day btw, I'd say "spam" is better activity than a low-post-count day. It was one of the days so far with the least amount of drain.


444 Votes Matt, another vote without reasoning, but the context around the post makes the reasons pretty obvious. The ambiguity is maybe typical of his gameplay? In later posts he indicates it doesn't matter what Matt's alignment is - e.g., a policy/utility lynch? This gives me hives.

The above focuses mostly on the stuff that caught my eye in a negative way. From interactions with players who know him better I think some of it is probably play style. And from the recurrent themes - if, how and when he telegraphs read changes, I think he probably does tend to either hold back or just not articulate all his thoughts about what catches his eye.

His posts about Antagon's claim aren't troubling me.

[fferyllt]

Even though he didn't give a reason, the timing of mrbungle's 2nd vote on me fit and even sort of anticipated later reactions.

I don't see this at all.

Maybe you had to be there. Or maybe you had to be me.

hp leave's unvote is equally unreasoned, and he's not interacted at all with other players and just focused (shallowly imo) on two of the current main issues: MattP and Antagon.

Upon ISO skim of hp, his unvote was when he replaced in. Why should he give reasons for unvoting from whatever his predecessor was doing? Why does that make him scummy?

It was a vote on one of the also-ran wagons. If the vote had been on the leading wagon, my first act as a replacement would have been to unvote if for no other reason than to ensure could catch up.

The point about hp being shallow and only focusing on mattp/antagon isn't bad, but hp's thought process is pretty clear IMO. From what I've seen of scumHP (and don't ask me to elaborate, I can't), hp doesn't have a clear thought process as scum.

Ok, good to know.

Are those your only two scumreads?

I still am suspicious of Antagon, but I don't think Antagon is a good day 1 lynch atm. And, zachrules is near the scummy end of null. Which is interesting since I don't have a lot of nulls.

What are your thoughts about MattP? I've come away from his recent posts thinking he could be town. Others seem a lot more suspicious of him.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: fferyllt

You've seen the best and worst of my MS town play as experiential meta. And you've also seen my scum game.

[fferyllt]

Nope. I'm afraid this is well within the space where my town game oscillates.

[fferyllt]

I'm going to sleep, and I want to hear what syryana has to say about ffery first as I think he's wrong. And I want antagon to give his role name. His claim and the way he made it doesn't make sense.

Why did you ask that?
From your own PM it should be apparent that role names aren't given.

From my role PM it's apparent that role names *are* given. A mix of named and unnamed roles?

[fferyllt]

My favorite constellation. <3

p-edit I'm kinda waiting around for the upcoming conclave about my scummitude before I vote again. I don't intend to help end the day before that happens. I especially want to see what Syr has to say.

[fferyllt]

Zachrulez (1) ~ implosion
Pjovek (1) ~ sword_of_omens
hp [leaves] (1) ~ Zachrulez

Not Voting: fferyllt, Antagon

I hate the reasoning for the vote.

I also have no idea what these people think they are doing.

I've explained why I am not voting atm. I think Tammy wants to hear what Syr has to say as well.

My favorite constellation. <3

p-edit I'm kinda waiting around for the upcoming conclave about my scummitude before I vote again. I don't intend to help end the day before that happens. I especially want to see what Syr has to say.

[fferyllt]

@soo: thats just sarcastic comment on pjovek's it is funny how you harped on it so much. Because so many people said they will post something useful and end up not posting anything. Thus, he tried to be sarcastic and put you in that group of people

One post, I could understand, maybe…but he kept on going trying to build it into something it wasn’t, and tried to justify it as a PL…
I don’t see that as just being sarcastic…

Anyway with the timer dropping down and time running out, I can see my vote is going nowhere….

UNVOTE:

Looking at viable options:

Antagon- Egg’s intro was odd..and Antagon’s claim seems convoluted, yet believeable…normally I’d prefer to wait on lynching him…
I will say that I didn’t care for his last post though:

Now that pjovek/Amrun made logical, valid points, I'm left with only one scumread.
VOTE: hp

What logical posts? Amrun has only 2 posts that could be considered content…#758 and #786, and I don’t see how any of those would be considered insightfully logical and valid …Can you please tell me where exactly you changed your mind on Pjo/Amrun?


HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

I’d prefer to lynch hp[leaves], as I am willing to wait on Antagon on the off-chance that he’s town (although I’d still like him to answer my question)

VOTE: hp[leaves]

SoO, playing with someone who plays like I play at MS in real time, without pages worth posts to evaluate in one sitting, is basically guaranteed to look scummy to a player like Bungles the first time we play together from the start. Even with 20+ days worth of posts I was his weakest town read IIRC. I expected him to conclude otherwise over time, but I was not surprised at his vote, nor at when he put it down.

I think I need to play games with 24-48 hour days more frequently, so I don't get entirely bogged down in analysis paralysis.

I could be wrong about Bungles. It would have been easier to conclude that if his last post/vote hadn't struck me as so genuine. The slot looks worse to me with hp's posts.

[fferyllt]

Why do you care? If you're town, you ought to be lynching scumreads, my opinion of you be damned.

I care because my townread of you has gone stale and I'm trying to figure out if your misread of me is genuine or not.

[fferyllt]

There are about 3 pages or so missing.

[fferyllt]

I'm not really sure what universe you people are living in. Antagon flipped town, not scum.

Is this fake?

Poo knew fully well how cruel destiny could be. He was prepared for this; he had trained his whole life to best the rigors of mortality and become a monk capable of saving the world.

But he never knew how to communicate with people outside Dalaam, and so he was helpless to save himself when he was shoveled up by an angry mob and pitched over the cliff of the floating island.

--- Antagon --- Poo (from EarthBound),

Town Sharing Ascetic

--- Eliminated Day 1...

^^ Town tell.

(scroll down, or check the OP)


I had a vote down on hp_leaves and I intend to put it back down but want to consolidate my reasons.

I'm unhappy about the discussion of the double/ghost or whatever vote going missing in the crash.

MattP's vote did not have a double effect when he put it down earlier in the game. Either it's an option, or wherever that vote came from, it wasn't revealed until Antagon hit apparent L-1/real hammer. It makes no sense whatsoever for scum MattP to draw attention that way, so I'd be very surprised if he owned the extra vote.

[fferyllt]

Come now you can't be serious.

I remember you knowing full well what antagon flipped before the board crashes.

I don't remember Syr posting at all between the start of day 2 and the board crashing.

[fferyllt]

That was a lot of effort to put into a case for an inaccurate read. But, at least it helps firm up my faltering read on you, because I can't imagine you putting that much effort into it as scum.

I'm not going to refute it bit by bit before I'm actually awake (and maybe not even then...it reminds me of another case that was mostly accurate in terms of stuff I posted, but was describing things that clearly aren't scum-motivated since I wasn't scum).

Anyway, re the zdenek town read, it wasn't based on his read of me. It was based on his reaction to Pjo's early posts, which became a sort of sieve for me. Whether players thought Pjo was scummy or not isn't such a big deal, but how they came to the conclusion is. And, it's not been the best of sieves, since Zachrules pinged over it and he flipped town.

More later. Maybe.

[fferyllt]

Ok, so hp leaves.

Day 1 I was reluctant to let go of my town impression of mrbungles, though hp's posts bothered me because the reasoning seemed shallow. He's offered virtually nothing to the thread but scum reads on Antagon and MattP, and his reasoning for tying them together, as exemplified in post 890 are weak. Well, virtually nothing but those two reads and some lackluster negging of the cases for voting him, rather than actual refutation.

I was going to put my Saturday vote back down on him in this post but there are a couple things I want to review first.

[fferyllt]

SoO

Early-ish in the game he had Pjovik and me as his strongest scum reads as indicated in 255. He had a question for mrbungles about his vote on me, and after hp replaced him, SoO voted for hp. His last post of day 2 indicated he was happy with the Antagon lynch because Antagon's reasoning on hp was fake, though he didn't change his vote to Antagon in 806.

Rereading his iso (which doesn't take long - 10 posts), it looks pretty bad. No follow-up on or with me aside from that one question to mrbungles, then votes not me but bungle's replacement at a point where it was the most viable alternative wagon to Antagon.

This was his reasoning for the hp vote:

HP[leaves] - the Bungle I played with as town was much more active and aggressive than he was here…Him and I went at it in DBZ Mafia We were both town in that game, but in that one he posted with actual thought content …whereas here, he did nothing but one-line posts, and flip/flopped on Fferyl for no real reason at all, which is a complete opposite of that… Fferyl was also in that game..This is also why I was concerned with her giving Bungle a town read so early… His play here doesn’t reflect that at all…hp[leaves] hadn’t done much to alleviate the concerns that I have for that slot…He votes Antagon, while saying Matt should be next…and then later follows up with “we can chase after SoO next”.

[fferyllt]

Why are there Matt votes right now? That's bad and you should feel bad.

I like Syryana more now because if I had two votes, the other would be on ffery, mostly for stuff that the tigers ate. She made no sense during the whole course of that conversation and it didn't read genuinely to me at all.

My posts in that conversation were genuine, and having your questions to bounce around helped me articulate (to myself anyway) why there's little chance that MattP is the double/ghost voter.

There are some people in this game that I have never played with who have fairly strong opinions about each other's alignment. Sorting through that, especially in cases where the reasoning has been oblique, has been confusing. I feel out of place in this game because there is obviously a ton of mutual history I'm ignorant of. But, that's how I form baselines, so I'm dealing with it.

I don't think I've ever had as strong a negative read from SoO's posts before. I'd like your thoughts on him. I had originally planned to put my vote back down on hp, but something in his iso pointed me in SoO's direction again and I'm really not liking his posts at all.

[fferyllt]

Adel?

[fferyllt]

Who is Adel?

[fferyllt]

Yes, Pjo and you were my top picks at the start of the day yesterday…I especially didn’t like the way you and Bungles interacted..and if you look on that same reads list you would notice that Bungles’ name was directly above yours..i explained how this did not seem like his town game at all… considering I just came from one with him and that you were in that same game, you should have noticed the difference too… His one liner posts were not normal for him… Once he was replaced by hp, I did try and question him as I wanted to try and get a read on his slot and he seemed to be evading the question…

And yes, I did vote for him yesterday…but I don’t see how you think it came out of nowhere...the deadline was approaching and I couldn’t get anyone to vote Pjo with me…The only 2 wagons that were viable at the time were Antagon’s and hp’s… i had reservations about Antagon, as I normally like to play it safe, so preferrably did not want to vote him…and hp was a good vote..his pred’s actions weren’t his normal town, and hp's posts weren't much beyond trying to line up lynches…when he did answer my question, he said that Pjo was town but he still hadn’t read you, which also seemed a bit convenient… not to mention that his flip would also give me better insight on you..if he did flip scum, then I would bet even money that you were his buddy…

You'd lose that bet. I am obviously not doing a very good job of articulating why the timing of mrbungle's vote felt townish to me, but I originally played mafia on sites where sometimes players don't post long cases prior to voting, especially early day 1. There is an intimidation factor involved and also a "hmm...what did HE see?" factor for non-involved players. Two players gave me that vibe during a fairly close interval in the thread - MattP and mrbungles. I did not read it as scummy on either of their parts at the time. And per my usual, I didn't bite.

It was interesting that my lack of concern about a lack of case was cause for consternation. But, I figured a case would show up eventually or the votes would go away.

Anyway, I'm still a little concerned about you. It sounds to me like you, too, are lining up lynches here.

[fferyllt]

It happened when I said, "brb changing all my reads", about the time where I also had a flip of reads on HP and ffery. Can't miss it

That flip apparently didn't last long.

[fferyllt]

post_id=5055925 time=1372151548 user_id=10128 post_num=995]ussying out and put their votes somewhere

Okay!

VOTE: hp leaves

That extra vote could make this L-1, not L-2.

[fferyllt]

post_id=5057095 time=1372192668 user_id=10128 post_num=1003]

post_id=5055925 time=1372151548 user_id=10128 post_num=995]ussying out and put their votes somewhere

Okay!

VOTE: hp leaves

That extra vote could make this L-1, not L-2.

what extra vote? do you even read?

One of us apparently doesn't.

The extra vote that materialized out of thin air at what looked like L-1 yesterday.

[fferyllt]

post_id=5057149 time=1372193574 user_id=10128 post_num=1005]*Abilities other than Night actions will no longer function.

and this means?

I don't know what it means wrt votes. Do you?

[fferyllt]

What parts aren't scum motivated? Why?

None of them are scum-motivated. Because I am not scum.

Re HP, my reaction to his early posts was unimpressed, with the exception of (surprise) 551. In retrospect, those first 5-6 posts look better in the light of Antagon's flip, but foreknowledge is a distinct possibility.

But, that post 551 where he suggested SoO needed some attention came to naught and since then, it's been very little in the way of scumhunting and very little in the way of putting down content that could be useful to town post-flip if he is in fact town.

[fferyllt]

You'd lose that bet. I am obviously not doing a very good job of articulating why the timing of mrbungle's vote felt townish to me, but I originally played mafia on sites where sometimes players don't post long cases prior to voting, especially early day 1. There is an intimidation factor involved and also a "hmm...what did HE see?" factor for non-involved players. Two players gave me that vibe during a fairly close interval in the thread - MattP and mrbungles. I did not read it as scummy on either of their parts at the time. And per my usual, I didn't bite.

It was interesting that my lack of concern about a lack of case was cause for consternation. But, I figured a case would show up eventually or the votes would go away.

Anyway, I'm still a little concerned about you. It sounds to me like you, too, are lining up lynches here.

I understand what you are saying, but you are missing my point here...you and i had just both come from a game where we played with town Bungles. he was very active and verbal in that game and had a lot of opinions and was not affraid to voice them...so why then with him being so close-mouthed and mysterious this game, would you see him as town? Yes i get that that you could see some people don't post cases prior to voting, etc..but you and i both have first hand, recent knowledge that town Bungles wasn't like that at all...

I get what you are saying. But, that was a different sort of dynamic, replacing into a game what? 3 days before nightfall with a ton of content to respond to? The interaction with mrbungles in this game was early, and there was very little content from me to even analyze. I don't always start games in slow motion, but I am more likely to do so when I don't know anything about many of the players. In the dragonballz game (where I also didn't know most of the players), even with hundreds of my posts, he had me as his weakest town read iirc.

With a handful of my posts in this game at the time, I was not at all surprised by his vote or by the way he put it down without support other than saying it was a serious vote.

[fferyllt]

I'm still waffling on hp [leaves] myself. I'll elaborate a bit more after me meal.

I did some VCA. One thing that's making me uneasy about the hp lynch is Antagon's actions. I've not meta'd Antagon so I don't know how he plays, but I find it unlikely that he would bus at L-2. Now if this is multiball that alleviates the concern, but I'm not 100% convinced hp is scum in any case. I'm not allowed to elaborate, but I have recently seen hp-scum and this just doesn't...

feel

like hp-scum. I know this is a super-lame explanation but I just don't know how to support this scratchy feeling in the base of my skull.

I get what you are saying. But, that was a different sort of dynamic, replacing into a game what? 3 days before nightfall with a ton of content to respond to? The interaction with mrbungles in this game was early, and there was very little content from me to even analyze. I don't always start games in slow motion, but I am more likely to do so when I don't know anything about many of the players. In the dragonballz game (where I also didn't know most of the players), even with hundreds of my posts, he had me as his weakest town read iirc.

With a handful of my posts in this game at the time, I was not at all surprised by his vote or by the way he put it down without support other than saying it was a serious vote.

You. Why are you ignoring my questions?

Were there questions in that gawdawful wall you posted? Or did I miss a post?

[fferyllt]

Why are you buddying the fuck out of me this game? The only time you ever got remotely close to this level of buddying was in Buzzword. Even then, you never once appeased me (as opposed to a half dozen times or more here) and I was damn near confirmed town from RVS in that game. Why here and now?

Actually, I would compare this game more to the Donner party game, where you were the only player I was remotely familiar with when the game started.

I'm not sure specifically what you are calling "appeasement" and I don't really care tbh. If I buddied anyone in this game it was Pjovik and I have a feeling that my reasons for taking a shine to him were not as role indicative as I thought. I still have a town read on that slot. To the extent I have solid reads, I'm putting them in the game thread.

Why did my dance with Tammy make you think I was town?

It reminded me of Nacho's town play and I think that sort of very fast semi stream-of-consciousness interaction is almost impossible to emulate when scum. Nacho wouldn't even start it with me when he was scum in the buzzword game.

[fferyllt]

Pedit: The fuck you say, there's a big friggin spoiler section in my wall entitled "Buddying".

I will go back and look at it. But, you are in a somewhat unique position to see my "buddying" behaviors along with the intentions and motivations. Even when I am not a part nor likely to be a part of a nascent town bloc I do what I can to help that bloc form.

[fferyllt]

This one's even worse. We've played together before and are hydraing currently, but I can't recall doing anything that would garner this much respect. She's essentially calling me town because my town list matches her town list closely enough for her to just assume I'm town. Yeah, no. "Your reads match mine therefore you're town" is sloppy and superficial as fuck, two things our dear fery is not. This is more buddying.

I just want to pull this piece out.

It's like the buzzword game never happened or something. IIRC our reads in that game were close from the start and got closer as time went on. I also called my hydra partner off when he started to go after you early on day 1. You weren't a constant fixture in that game, which kept our interactions fairly minimal. In this game you were heavily involved in the first few pages and then disappeared for quite a while.

I have a tendency to start in one game practically where I left off in the previous game with players I feel like I can read. If I don't get an immediate town sense I'm cautious. If I do, it's more like day 3 or 4 of the old game than day 1 of the new one to me.

You remember the BSG game. My early confidence that I could read orcinus and trust his view of the game state led to my eventual day 1 lynch.

I should be more cautious in my reads if for no other reason than to avoid this sort of situation. But, I'm not and probably won't improve much given where my game emphasis lies.

[fferyllt]

It's like the buzzword game never happened or something. IIRC our reads in that game were close from the start and got closer as time went on. I also called my hydra partner off when he started to go after you early on day 1. You weren't a constant fixture in that game, which kept our interactions fairly minimal. In this game you were heavily involved in the first few pages and then disappeared for quite a while.

In Buzzword, I claimed miller. I got counterclaimed, and that's what your townread resulted from (and the interactions that happened as a result). When pressed on it, you gave a pretty in depth read as to why you thought I was town.

post hoc stuff. The initial read was almost instantaneous. Back to the Donner party game. I decided you were town quite early in that game, too, but coming to that game right off BSG I didn't make a huge deal of it, though I am pretty sure I had you as town in my first abbreviated list of reads.

In this game, at the point you called me town, I hadn't done fuckall. That reads list I posted? I gave that for the sole purpose of irritating Mattp (which should be obvious in context). Some of the reads were serious, some were not. This should have been particularly obvious to

you

, since you had

already

noticed (according to you) Nacho's influence in my dance with Tammy (and thus that I was still in troll mode and my reads list should have been taken with a grain of salt). What do you do? You jump on that list like a damn survivor on a life raft and add another townread to it just to make it obvious you weren't totally sheeping me.

Nope, wasn't obvious to me that you were trolling MattP. I think you can probably tell, though, that I'm pretty humor-impaired when it comes to mafia and the stuff that I do find humorous (like Pjo's gambits in this game) I also tend to find town. And like I said later, at the time I had no reason to object to any of your town reads, and later found reasons of my own to agree.

Even later in the game, when I sort of vanished and you admit the townread on me is going stale, what do you do? You sit back, wait for me to return. You don't pressure me. You don't talk to me. You make no effort to determine if you initial townread on me is valid. You just kinda sit back and wait for developments to happen. You have not, at any point in this thread, made any serious attempt to discern my alignment. There hasn't been some kind of game changing catalyst to give you that strong a read in this game like there was in Buzzword.

Your alignment has been on your sleeve. I hear that you have a scary scum game, but I guess until I get burned in a game where you look town to me and aren't, you are going to be town as far as I am concerned. I don't spend a lot of time on players I have strong town reads on, except occasionally to defend them if they are racking up votes. That has not been an issue for you in this game. But if you recall, I did defend Pjo when he was collecting votes. You came back into the game, and basically did things that couldn't have been better at re-convincing me you're town if you knew exactly what I look for.

I have a tendency to start in one game practically where I left off in the previous game with players I feel like I can read. If I don't get an immediate town sense I'm cautious. If I do, it's more like day 3 or 4 of the old game than day 1 of the new one to me.

Well, considering that the game we just got out of (Buzzword) had Nacho-scum in it, and the first thing you think in this thread is "Hey, that dance with Tammy looks Nacho-influenced", why the fuck am I an immediate townread? But I'm getting off point here.

Nacho TOWN influenced. He was reluctant as fuck to engage with me in the buzzword game and when he did, he mostly failed at looking town.

That game thread was overflowing with invective between my partner and another player, to the point where it seriously impacted my ability to interact with the players that I was scumhunting. There was very little left over for interacting with town reads, unless I was trying to convince them to vote/change their votes. Your vote was where it needed to be exxcept when you were trying to prevent a premature hammer. Given the rate of posting, there was not much to say.

You remember the BSG game. My early confidence that I could read orcinus and trust his view of the game state led to my eventual day 1 lynch.

This does not remind me of orcinus in BSG, because there is a significant difference in being sure you'll be able to read me at some point (what happened then) and townreading me and otherwise making no effort to discern my alignment (what's happening now). In BSG, you set Orci off because you townread him early in the thread. You, he and buldermar then got into a 30 page circle jerk about each other's alignment, and it was transparently obvious that each of you were changing/evolving opinions of each other throughout the thread.

Except that my read of orcinus did not waver at all in that. Not once.

My problem with you stems not from that you had an early read on me, but rather that

you sheeped my reads list and have been buddying me ever since.

You waltz in, sheep my entire list, add bungle and oh by the way Syr is town too. You justify yourself much later, after a half dozen people scream bloody murder at you. Your ISO shows no thought process; it's purely reactive. When I specifically ask you to explain yourself and/or rebut my case, your responses have little to do with what I originally ask or the points I made. Your analysis has for the most part been horrendously superficial.

And this is where I say think back on the Donner party game. I took your reads as a starting place in this game. In that one at the end of day 1 I had a couple scum reads, a couple town reads, and a ton of null reads. I reached out to you in that game to try and dialog about players, but was getting a lot of flack for posting in conversational mode. In this game, since I can't get past your looks-scum filter, I'm not trying very hard to work with you any more.

You may get me lynched tomorrow. In the meanwhile, I'll putter along and contribute what I can.

I should be more cautious in my reads if for no other reason than to avoid this sort of situation. But, I'm not and probably won't improve much given where my game emphasis lies.

You being uncautious with your reads is not the fucking problem here.

I think a town read of you that you don't feel is justified is a huge part of the problem.

[fferyllt]

post hoc stuff. The initial read was almost instantaneous. Back to the Donner party game. I decided you were town quite early in that game, too, but coming to that game right off BSG I didn't make a huge deal of it, though I am pretty sure I had you as town in my first abbreviated list of reads.

And in Donner Party, I didn't have a problem with it, because you exhibited a thought process.

Your alignment has been on your sleeve. I hear that you have a scary scum game, but I guess until I get burned in a game where you look town to me and aren't, you are going to be town as far as I am concerned. I don't spend a lot of time on players I have strong town reads on, except occasionally to defend them if they are racking up votes. That has not been an issue for you in this game. But if you recall, I did defend Pjo when he was collecting votes. You came back into the game, and basically did things that couldn't have been better at re-convincing me you're town if you knew exactly what I look for.

That game thread was overflowing with invective between my partner and another player, to the point where it seriously impacted my ability to interact with the players that I was scumhunting. There was very little left over for interacting with town reads, unless I was trying to convince them to vote/change their votes. Your vote was where it needed to be exxcept when you were trying to prevent a premature hammer. Given the rate of posting, there was not much to say.

You don't spend time investigating strong town reads, sure. But you don't totally neglect to interact with them either.

And this is where I say think back on the Donner party game. I took your reads as a starting place in this game. In that one at the end of day 1 I had a couple scum reads, a couple town reads, and a ton of null reads. I reached out to you in that game to try and dialog about players, but was getting a lot of flack for posting in conversational mode. In this game, since I can't get past your looks-scum filter, I'm not trying very hard to work with you any more.

With the exceptions of sheeping my reads list and responding to questions I directly put to you(or related to my case on you), you haven't tried to interact with me at all. Not once. You've called me town, you call my reads good, said I town told, etc. But not once have you done anything along the lines of "Syr, what do you think of so-and-so" or

any

kind of interaction.

I think a town read of you that you don't feel is justified is a huge part of the problem.

It got my suspicions started, sure. It was that hp [leaves] analysis that really got my gander up though.

Since very early in the game, this is the first time we've been in the game thread at the same time TO interact. And it comes at a point where your read, though wrong, is well formed and unlikely to shift. Arguing with you that hell yes I do this as town sometimes is fun and all, but not terribly productive.

[fferyllt]

I'm feeling an unsettling mix of vindication for townreading mrbungles and disgust for letting it go after the replacement.

@Oversoul, your reasons for voting Tierce are pretty much unintelligible to someone without the prior game experience. That's been true of several cases, though. Matt said that even though you are on that list, he didn't think you were scum, just not as strongly town as others on the list.

It comes down to SoO or implosion for me today.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, I make sure that my reasons (so far) are unintelligible to outsiders

Why?

Are there so many insiders who will be swayed by your argument that you could pull off the lynch without outsider help?

heh. Maybe I am the only outsider. Would explain a few things, actually.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, I make sure that my reasons (so far) are unintelligible to outsiders

I totally misunderstood you, and just launched into my own frustrations about this game, I guess.

[fferyllt]

That's a nice read and all, but it's something that I would also post as scum.

[fferyllt]

SoO or implosion is where I am leaning. I haven't finished my ISOs.

What are your thoughts about the Tierce/Amrun stuff?

[fferyllt]

Fery, who are your current scumreads?

In disarray.

Was considering sheeping MattP's list and voting either SoO or implosion (the latter of which would mess with my somewhat discredited Pjo filter). Implosion proposing the same makes me feel that the idea is squiffy.

I am trying to figure out the katsuki wagon, and, peripherally, what it means that my comment to Zdenek asking his opinion about Tierce and Amrun was scummy if attributed to katsuki but apparently unremarkable coming from me.

[fferyllt]

Fery, who are your current scumreads?

Actually, back at you. What are yours?

[fferyllt]

Was considering sheeping MattP's list and voting either SoO or implosion (the latter of which would mess with my somewhat discredited Pjo filter). Implosion proposing the same makes me feel that the idea is squiffy.

Lol.
You have two options: either i'm town, in which case me saying that the list is a good thing to think about does not make it "squiffy," or i'm scum, and mattp's list contains scum.

Or pursuing it is chasing a well paved wifom trail.

[fferyllt]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

That's a fact not in evidence.

[fferyllt]

Syryana, why have you backed off fferyllt?

That's a fact not in evidence.

We have three days to get a lynch through, and he's not working on one that he should want, so yes, it is.

He's not really doing anything in the thread yet. I have no idea if he's going to pick up where he left off near the end of day 2, but the fact that he's kept a steady course on my alignment after earlier hiatus this game leads me to expect that he will.

[fferyllt]

zdenek is there more reasoning/case behind your vote?

Come now you can't be serious.

I remember you knowing full well what antagon flipped before the board crashes.

How does this comment not come with a Syryana vote?

Mind as well hammer and get to discussing other stuff tonight.

This looks like an attempt to fake a town-tell - to like he didn't have knowledge about the no night time before it happened.

[fferyllt]

It really confuses me that you and oversoul both have made cases for Tierce being scum, but are both voting katsuki.

[fferyllt]

and in fact are on the same bandwagon with Tierce.

[fferyllt]

zdenek is there more reasoning/case behind your vote?

Process of elimination.

I think his failure to vote Syryana is quite damning - if I'd caught someone who I thought was blatantly changing their opinion of an event to fake a town tell, I'd vote them forever because there is basically nothing scummier.

When it comes to Tierce, while it's possible that she is scum, my reasons for thinking that she is scum actually do point in both directions because her changes of stance on Egg/Antagon were so awkward that it's hard to see them as being made by a buddy, so I'm putting that on the back burner.

I also think that people (like SoO and Implosion) who's posts make it impossible to get a read on them have a higher chance of flipping scum than people who's interactions with scum point to them being buddies (the latter thing scum can try to avoid, but the former is beneficial for them), so I'd vote there before voting for Tierce - with a strong lean towards voting for Implosion over SoO.

Tierce discounts your interpretation of the second post, but has other reasons for voting katsuki. Reasons I've tried to follow, but can't bring into focus.

I play a pretty meta-heavy game. This game has given me a sense of how frustrating my play might be to players who either don't share the experiential meta or find it difficult to meta-read old and cold game threads.

I'm basically at a point where I want to figure out which of my town reads are making the most sense/are in agreement and follow their votes. I have you, Syr, Tammy, Tierce, and Amrun (mostly on the basis of my Pjo read) as various degrees of town. At least two of them are/have misread me which makes me a little suspicious about their other reads. Two (or more?) of them are involved in cross-FoSes.

Your thoughts about SoO and implosion resonate because I've PoEd to the same conclusion.

[fferyllt]

Oh god i forgot how soon this day might end.

Katsuki... I noticed a similar thing when I didn't understand why Katsuki wasn't voting for mattP when he "assumed" Matt was the double voter. Katsuki did eventually vote for Matt. This immediately made me suspicious but some later stuff katsuki did made me feel better -- this was all eaten in the crash.

I was waiting to hear Katsuki's answers to the lack of Syryana vote -- but he didn't fold to pressure this time. (If he answered these, I missed it.)

I wanted to see if he'd fold again, and had a pet theory he was scum if he did, but he didn't so now I'm conflicted. I don't oppose the katsuki wagon, because not voting in those situations still makes no sense to me from a town perspective, but, all in all, I'd rather...

VOTE: ffery

The ffery/Syryana interaction reads very much like scum on town -- though which side of it is scum i keep flip flopping on. Matt pushed ffery (though inconsistently) and I've had overall more problems with Her all game, so I would rather pursue ffery.

I also think at least one of the scum is a more experienced player, because that ghost hammer on Antagon really set up suspicion on one of Matt or hp or both. Matt's following death made me think this more, like they realized after hp town flip he wouldn't be lynched. Hp was obviously a frame job but you don't let that sort of wifom live without very good reason. (Actually, I think it was more likely meant to frame Matt, but who knows really.)

Matt's reputation being what is, I'm not too concerned about his list. It should be considered but not used as a bible.

Amrun, do you have any idea what Pjo may have meant by the bolded

here

Spoiler: first post

For the sake of the universe and contiguity, I need everyone to claim the gamea/universe their character is from.

Nothing important, just a

lil dash

of flavor.

It's no big deal guys.

What could possibly go wrong.

and here

Spoiler: second post

hey pjo are you town?

totes

cos i am... you probably know that by now tho don't you

totes

I've been thinking about that newbie game. I assume pjo gambits no matter what alignment he is.

totes

mrbungle, where, what games do you and pjo know each other from?

fiery, pjo, tell me about pjo's scum game, or at least point me to the ones that you are talking about.

My scumgames are mystical creatures of ancient power, just without the power.
I'm actually quite bad at it if I do say so myself.
Almost as bad as bungle. Not quite, but almost.

Cool. Why is it suspicious. And I'll totally admit to it being suspicious, if you can point to where I was posting at this site in the meantime and then hopped to it to do some scumhunting because I was called out. And if you really think someone saying I'm not scumhunting on page two of a mafia game makes me get all skittish and run to scumhunt, you clearly don't know how I think as scum.

Why don't you ask me why I'm finding the Matt town reads suspicious? Show me you're actually interested in determining my alignment.

It's completely irrelevant whether you were posting elsewhere on the site. The point is, Whimsy-boy over there calls you out for not scumhunting, then you make a post yelling at him, and two minutes later you start scumhunting.

I already know why you find the Matt townreads suspicious. And I've already figured out your alignment

Pedit: And more self-meta! This is glorious!

This is a bad post and you should feel bad.

Why are people not allowed to hunt scum after you tell them they are not hunting scum?
And when are they supposed to start?

There is mafia motivation in these words.
Indeed.
Mafia would really love people who are not contributing to continue doing so.
Indeed, if mafia are able to paint scum motivation on people FOR starting to contribute (even if it's just a

lil' dash

of it), that would be a good thing.

I'm taking both my eyes. And I'm watching the shit out of you, brother.
Yeah.
Even when you're under the shower, yeah.

I haven't seen his scum game.

So why do you think that he gambits as either alignment?

I was asking mrbungles because they've played together elsewhere.

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

While it is true that i do that specifically as either alignment, I am easy to spot as scum anyways.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But, if he doesn't gambit irrespective of alignment he'd be awfully easy to spot as scum. So yeah, I think he gambits no matter what his alignment.

You're lying

You didn't actually come to that conclusion

Would you like to stop lying now or should this be a power lynch? [:

Why do you think ferryllet unable to come to a logical conclusion?
This looks like you want to lynch here on the basis of her being actually stupid and not able to think, true/false?

ffery, needs to explain how pjo tripped up scum in the game she lynched because it looks like she buddying with him for an illegitimate reason at the moment.

I'd like it if mrbungle told me what game he knows pjo from.

Whimsy is actually scum, so people should vote her.

Pjo was so obviously town by page 2 of that game. MsM, however, just could not let go of the idea that he had initially behaved as though he were very newb and then a page later showed some depth of mafia strategy. She focused on the ruse and ignored or couldn't see the reason behind it. She moved on to other targets but kept coming back to that slot and arguing with Pjo and later his replacement. It was painfully scummy looking.

I was happy to see he signed up for this game and I'm looking forward to playing with him.

Oh stop it, you
*blush*

VOTE: Whimsical Eggplantl

Scum man. She tripped up.
@whimsical: You recalled mattp saying releasing flavour is a bad idea in your scum pregame qt?

Those who have no avatar need to get one. I can't differentiate people without avi.

I thought scum only had a QT during nightphases?
If so then this is silly.
Or are pregame QTs actually a thing?
Sounds useless, theres like nothing to talk about without any posts.

Hey Zach--want to obvTown so I can stop worrying about players 10-15? That'd look really cool on my notes.

Want to help me lynch Pjovek? It would fill me with warm feelings inside.

If you want, I could fill you up with something warm.

Hey Zach--want to obvTown so I can stop worrying about players 10-15? That'd look really cool on my notes.

Want to help me lynch Pjovek? It would fill me with warm feelings inside.

Why do you think he would troll like that as scum and not as Town? He's not an insecure newbie, regardless of his post count in MS.

Here, have a cookie. It comes with free townreads.

Hey Zach--want to obvTown so I can stop worrying about players 10-15? That'd look really cool on my notes.

Want to help me lynch Pjovek? It would fill me with warm feelings inside.

Why do you think he would troll like that as scum and not as Town? He's not an insecure newbie, regardless of his post count in MS.

My friend Jason a while back ran a theme game. It featured the scum pushing a mass claim on day 1 and getting away with it. Seeing that kind of action again in another theme game, and nothing from Pjovek's iso to indicate to me that he's town, I'm more than fine to say DIESCUMDIE as of this 5 minutes.

How is this relevant to this game at all?


@Katsuki, do you like playing scum?
yes/no question.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, why are you digging for my role?

Kill that plz. Wowza.

I'm not digging for your role. I thought Pjo was making a reference to my role in those posts.

[fferyllt]

That's a damn good question.

[fferyllt]

Well, those lil dashes are a big part of why I was reading him (and hence you) as town. I have no idea how or why he'd know that my character is in the game, but I trusted his low key approach and answered it.

And you apparently had no idea any of that went on, and are scum-reading me, which makes me think I was completely wrong about his posts. It's a big enough deal that I want it on the table.

[fferyllt]

Why would that make you read him town?!

Mafia is a game of paranoia and trust. For a number of reasons, I decided to trust.

[fferyllt]

I plan to vote implosion, but wanted that interaction with amrun. And I guess the interaction is done, given east coast time.

VOTE: implosion

[fferyllt]

Well, you were right if you decided not to push it because you think I am town.

If you now think it would be bad for me to be alive near endgame, then you are also probably right, because I am going to remain pretty lynchable, I think.

[fferyllt]

This game confuses me. After yesterday I think there are scum in my townpile.

Amrun, my character is Rainbow Dash. I am going to vote you today, I think.

[fferyllt]

^^ first sentence in reply to Syr.

[fferyllt]

I am still trying to figure this out, hence no vote atm. I've not expressed suspicion of you based pretty much entirely on pjo. But, the concerns others have had about your play haven't gone unnoticed.

[fferyllt]

It all had to do with his REASONS for suspecting ffery. He was "most" concerned with her superficial read on hp leaves, and when I noted that an hp leaves flip would be relevant to her alignment, he hammered. But then when hp flipped town -- which SHOULD have made him go "aha!" or at least address it -- he backed off and played it cautious. It's instant tonight so he couldn't even have gotten distracted/forgotten.

I don't understand why. I'm still waiting for an explanation.

An hp[leaves] scumflip would have made me more convinced. I didn't like fery's scumread on him because it was superficial and felt fabricated. Fery-scum is (I think) too cautious to pick a random townsperson and make such a terrible case she can't back up. When she was scum she preferred to townhunt and kill scum by POE, largely because she's awkward at legitimate scumhunting when she's scum in a single team setup. The hp[leaves] scumread and consequent townflip threw me, because I figured she was going for the easy shitty looking bus rather than a terrible read on an arbitrary townie, which is obvious and terrible (two things fery is not).

I have since decided that I was initially correct in my fery-scumread because I realized that in this game she's doing exactly that: getting a bunch of townreads to snuggle up to and then getting on lynches by POE. The simple fact she's not even attempting to scumhunt makes that obvious.

I did not get distracted or forget; it took me a day or so to wrestle with it and various MeatWorld concerns prevented me from following up on it before deadline.

Some games, my scumdar is pretty useless. This is one of those games. I'll hit the isos again sometime today.

[fferyllt]

Not in this game. I feel like a rat on one of those exercise wheels every time I go back to them.

[fferyllt]

I didn't think that, Oversoul. But, I am seeing this game in the context of other successful and not so successful games I've played.

[fferyllt]

Sryana I was gonna answer you in full when I had time.

You have enough time to talk about inane things like setup spec and avatars but not to tell me why you're voting Katsuki?

Do you think Katsuki is town?

[fferyllt]

No, I'm not throwing anything out the window.

I still think ffery is scum. I just have unvoted and of course you should be wondering why but I have my reasons.

I have thought about it and decided to

VOTE: syryana

Even though he does have more of an excuse for not pushing ffery yesterday than "I had a headache," they are still pretty weird. (She was coming up with a superficial scum read on her BUDDY? What...?). But more importantly, he was pressured yesterday about it, didnt answer, and then today, said "I have a headache" and only later came up with some semblance of a response.

Piecemeal explanations are always more likely to come from scum.

I still prefer ffery for scum out of the pair but REASONS. If both of this pair is town I'll eat my boot.

This smells of lining up mislynches. Regardless of Syr's flip, I'm next. And you're blatant about not voting for the one of us who you 'prefer" as scum.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: Amrun

[fferyllt]

Of course I'll re-evaluate in light of Syryana's flip, were it to occur. No way do you catch "lil dash" and miss THIS genuinely...

Over soul, I already told you why: I think you were more cautious due to Tierce having tertiary suspicion towards you. HOWEVER, this is not the only reason. In general i just thought you were playing very cautiously and even today, you're not really coming out heavy hitting. Being non-committal and laying low has obvious scum motivation.

I don't think I've ever seen someone pass up their primary scum read and put a vote on their secondary except as a compromise, or due to trusting someone else's read to be more accurate. Except on a couple of occasions when the player was scum.

You did neither of those, which leads me to think this is another of those "player is scum" occasions.

[fferyllt]

If I'm right about you, it's going to pain me deeply that I was wrong about pjo.

[fferyllt]

Of course I'll re-evaluate in light of Syryana's flip, were it to occur. No way do you catch "lil dash" and miss THIS genuinely...

Over soul, I already told you why: I think you were more cautious due to Tierce having tertiary suspicion towards you. HOWEVER, this is not the only reason. In general i just thought you were playing very cautiously and even today, you're not really coming out heavy hitting. Being non-committal and laying low has obvious scum motivation.

I don't think I've ever seen someone pass up their primary scum read and put a vote on their secondary except as a compromise, or due to trusting someone else's read to be more accurate. Except on a couple of occasions when the player was scum.

You did neither of those, which leads me to think this is another of those "player is scum" occasions.

It's like you're deliberately not even thinking about it.

You're making me regret trying to be thorough. Ugh.

I guess you are thinking circles around me. I'll reread our exchange again a few times, because I don't get what I'm missing.

[fferyllt]

Well.

Reread has clarified fuck-all. But that's par for the course in this game.

UNVOTE: Unvote Amrun

[fferyllt]

I'm in favor of mass claim.

[fferyllt]

I've already outed my character name. I don't mind going first.

[fferyllt]

Ok. Rainbow Dash, role pm is configured like the town vanilla PM in Vi's post 1. My role PM uses the first form of the 2nd paragraph. Pjo's two posts about lil dashes made me wonder about the "but it won't do anything" phrase. That's not precisely how it's phrased in my PM, but the meaning is about the same.

[fferyllt]

Oh, and popcorn Katsuki

[fferyllt]

No.

Ok, then that is probably where my vote will go.

[fferyllt]

My reasons should be exceedingly obvious overnight. I think the "lil dash thing makes no sense at all and the whole thing is fishy to me, but it's more informed to simply check MLP universe tonight and see if Rainbow Dash comes back. It WON'T confirm her alignment, but it WILL confirm that she wasn't pulling the lil dash stuff out of her ass, which frankly I think is a distinct possibility.

This tweaks my paranoia in all sorts of uncomfortable ways.

[fferyllt]

Talk about it, then.

Based on your role claim and my flip-out over lil dashes on day 3, I'm really curious why you didn't investigate the MLP universe night 3. Even before I had my whoa, what the fuck is going on moment, you said you wished you had 2 votes so you could lynch-vote me too.

The parsimonious explanation for Pjo's posts is that he had a n0 action. I was dead certain he was both town/friendly and that he knew *something* about me on day 1.

[fferyllt]

I have a role name - Rainbow Dash. I thought Oversoul was saying that his role PM did not have a named role. So, I was throwing it to "the room" to see if unnamed roles are a thing in this game.

Then Oversoul indicated he does have a role name IIRC.

[fferyllt]

Onsite? 4 or 5, including ongoings. Offsite, nearly all have been themed games, though not as elaborate as most ms themed games because the game days usually last somewhere between 12 and 48 hours, and mods don't go all out for games that will complete within 1-2 weeks.

[fferyllt]

No, I meant here. Rainbowdash would be your character/universe name whereas vanilla town would be your role/ability (or lack of as it were).

So for instance SoO has claimed Kirby, but that's not his role. His inhale ability is his role or ability.

Ah. Role is VT. Role name/character name are interchangeable in my lexicon. I'll keep this in mind in future games.

[fferyllt]

VOTE: katsuki

[fferyllt]

I feel extremely fatalistic about this game.

Amrun? What did you learn last night?

[fferyllt]

Fery, where the fuck are you? Come talk to me.

O hai!

[fferyllt]

So you want to talk about who's scum?

Why do you have Oversoul as town and SoO as scum?

Also, fuck you I voted Katsuki yesterday mostly because I listened to you yesterday.

[fferyllt]

ATM I don't have a strong opinion about either Oversoul or SoO. I need to do a hard reset, not that my scum reads have been worth shit this game. And I haven't really trusted that my town reads are all that good because I haven't had strong scum reads. Also, the Pjo breadcrumb thing apparently falling apart on day 3 didn't do much for my sense of the game state. Still pretty freaked that I was right about Pjo, but wrong about the lil dashes having anything to do with me or with his role.

I won't be reevaluating strong day 1 town reads again any time soon, though.

[fferyllt]

I think Tammy's flip all but confirms Zdenek.

I'll have a look at Zylbot tonight.

[fferyllt]

Though I guess that having some sort of godfathery BFF in the game could be a cruel trick. :/

[fferyllt]

I went back to check to be sure who initiated the mass claim discussion. It was Tammy, not Zdenek, so that's a strike against BFF paranoia.

[fferyllt]

BFF?

Best friends - a mason variant that can't talk to each other.

Tammy's role pm indicated Zdenek's character was in the game and suggested he was town iirc. Same in reverse for Zdenek's role pm. Once mass claim happened, they knew who was who.

I may be simplifying this or putting too much credence in the role alignment likelihood, though.

[fferyllt]

I didn't see a post from Syr to that effect prior to the crash. I was online and reading games that day.

[fferyllt]

I saw this

@oversoul: And yet you are not voting for poo.

And yet I was until he claimed.
And yet I realized the implications of the wording of his role before you or Katsuki.
And yet I unvoted at that time.
And yet you can't read.

Or at least don't like to.

All you did was" I need to think about this".

Explain your unvote since you already 'realized' the implications of the wording and you think the correct action was to lynch him.

and realized that Oversoul is probably scum.

Enomis is exactly right. Oversoul's unvote makes absolutely no sense in this context.

Other points about OS on day 1.
Oversoul's 253 ignores everything that is going on at the time. Pjo had started trolling me and SoO, and Whimsy was at L-1/L-2.
In fairness, his vote was on Whimsy, but his vote there in a post where he didn't comment on Whimsy at all.

There's also the post where Oversoul asked Matt and Tierce to kiss and make-up. Up until then, he thought Matt was town, but criticized Tierce for pushing a bad argument against Zach, and was suspicious of her for how her interaction with Zach ended. I think asking them to kiss and make-up is something that one would say to town reads that are fighting, not to a town-read and to a someone who's other interactions you have found questionable.

This is pretty convincing.

I don't want to vote right now, but this is where I'm thinking about putting my vote.

Syr what do you think of this analysis?

[fferyllt]

I still need to re-read Syryana, but I definitely want to take a closer look at Amrun and Ffery..i still don’t like the fact that everyone auto-assumes flavor cop is town…like I said , I’ve been burned multiple times from flavor cops turning out to be scum (FF6 and 90’s cartoon) and if she is scum, she could easily clear a scum mate off as town.

I am having trouble getting past this, too. If I were just looking at Amrun with no Pjo posts factored in, I'd be suspicious as fuck not least because of how useless the investigations seem to have been. Not that I'd do a great job of picking out universes. But, I am not scum, so the n4 investigation has no scum motivation that I can see, unless she boxed herself in on day 4 by asking for suggestions.

[fferyllt]

How would asking for suggestions have led me to pick you, fiery? I only got one suggestion and I ignored it because it was from a scum read and 1 suggestion does not a consensus make.

Just a reminder that I'm v/la all week long -- still reading periodically, still dropping by on my phone especially in light of this game's deadlines, but my attention is sparse and scattered.

You are right, one suggestion, and you obviously ignored it.

The "lil dashes" being apparently a wildly improbable coincidence has kept me micrometers from raging paranoia since you first said you were scum-reading me.

[fferyllt]

@fery, did you ever read the Xylbot game?

iso-skimmed. need to find time to read it more carefully. Time I should have in plenty with the deadline extension.

[fferyllt]

I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

[fferyllt]

I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

Did you finish reading Xylbot?

I've skimmed it and I've gone over his ISO. I am not sure what you mean by concerned about looking town. He had a few walls full of quote-and-response, that haven't been as prevalent in this game. And it looked like he made a point of not avoiding his scumbuddies. There were quite a few comments made in Tierce' and serra's direction.

[fferyllt]

I have no plans to hammer. But, if Oversoul is not scum, somebody will.

Did you finish reading Xylbot?

I've skimmed it and I've gone over his ISO. I am not sure what you mean by concerned about looking town. He had a few walls full of quote-and-response, that haven't been as prevalent in this game. And it looked like he made a point of not avoiding his scumbuddies. There were quite a few comments made in Tierce' and serra's direction.

Not a lot of time right now but, in short from what I remember of that game he was more passive, inquisitive but not aggressive. He wouldn't push on a target unless there was a good deal of public opinion condoning it (i.e. he only ever pushed main wagons). Here he's more aggressive and it just seems to me he's more like he was in that game where he was town (ongoing, you know the one). Am I wrong?

There was a targets of opportunity feel, yes.

The atmosphere of this game is really, really different, though. Aside from day 1 there haven't been many true targets of opportunity, except me and I really think I was left alone as a late game mislynch option. Matt looked lynchable on the wrong day. Since day 1, to me the bandwagon formations have been slogs through mud.

[fferyllt]

he voted hp on day 2, though. hmm

[fferyllt]

He's not

[fferyllt]

@Oversoul, Syr is trying to convince me to not vote you.

You've been at L-1 for a while. I think that if you are town and even one town player is on your wagon, you would already be hammered.

@SoO, I am trying to figure out an Amrun scum/me town scenario that makes sense. Pjo's "breadcrumbs" from day 1 are bothering me immensely given Amrun's play.

Re his super secret way of reading me town, he explained it here.

Because sword was a great day1 lynch (and still is)

In the meantime he has dodged replacement forcing with promises of more lurking, so yeah. A good lynch indeed.


Also should I share my super-secret way of reading ffery as town?
It'll cost you though.

Ah fuck it I can't hold my bowels.

Behold the power of my scumhunting:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... overview=1
Scum is Eggplant, sword and implosion.
fferyllt is the most town.
Don't get mislead by actiondan, he's not actually in the game.

Pjovek™ Scumhunting™ Inc.

Being the most prolific poster at any point in the game is not a sure-fire town tell where I am concerned.

More later.

[fferyllt]

Syr, would like your thoughts about this:

@Oversoul, Syr is trying to convince me to not vote you.

You've been at L-1 for a while. I think that if you are town and even one town player is on your wagon, you would already be hammered.

[fferyllt]

So have I.

Going to reread day 5. Again.

[fferyllt]

seriously, katsuki, I made a bunch of posts with my hydrae this morning before you posted. I don't think waiting until someone else posts is alignment indicative.

I wanted to see who would post first and what they would say.

[fferyllt]

Se're not no lynching today, so fuck off SoO and your Amrun vote. Basically you just bought yourself tomorrow's rope. So that's cute.

I've played with SoO before and he's never whined like this about lack of access, so he probably is actually scum too, so right now, I'd l ove to string him up, but getting a wagon going there is isn't going happen now.

So somebody should probably
======[]
[]======

you are wrong here, Zdenek try reading DBZ mafia..ffery was there and can tell you I got called out for the exact same thing.... and no I wasn't scum there, either... as far as my vote goes, , I said I would move it if I had to before dead line, but I was hoping that people would at least read and discuss the shit i type rather than just dismiss it....I had preferred not to vote on my town reads and think it's a legitimate case.. there was plenty of time to at least discuss it...

@Kats... although it doesn't really matter now, I probably would have gone with you... I've played with OS quote a bit and would like to think that I can read him pretty well...

The stuff about the dragonballz game is correct. SoO was called out for being apologetic/making excuses about being too busy at work and lack of access at home. He had a healthy bandwagon near the end of day 2 because people felt like he was spending more post real estate making excuses than actual gameplay.

[fferyllt]

^^ near the end of day 1, not day 2.

[fferyllt]

I'm not really comfortable with the idea of voting Syr today.

SoO, rereading yesterday, you had a huge and elaborate case for why I was scum. Your case on Amrun is pretty much dependent on a fake role claim with the cooperation of scum-me. I'm not sure why you voted Amrun at the end of all that. I'm the claimed VT,

Do you feel like her flip is more informative?

[fferyllt]

Because there is no real case built, or at least not articulated, for one thing. For another, I don't have a scum read.

I'm leaning toward voting SoO.

[fferyllt]

The scumteam is Katsuki and sword_of_omens.

It's pure PoE for SoO?

I don't really have much of a case either. Just a feeling that his play in this game has been different from the town game we played.

[fferyllt]

Fferry,

You and Anrun make the most sense to me as a scum team...
i've started in my previous post how it looks that way... why did I pick her over you as far as voting? prretty sure I also stated why.. I've been burned again and again on scum cops...FF6 mafia, Diddin claimed name cop, and went all the way through the end and won for scum...90's Cartoin maf, MichelSablehart claimed name cop and although we did finally lynch him after me pressing everybody, scum still went on to win that game... so i kind of hold a persinal grudge against nontradtional cops, especially if I think they are scum...and especially when it might lose us the game..

but like I said, I woukd have been happy with either of you...


I still haven't re-read like I wanted to, but should be getting to that tonight...

Well, as I've reiterated a couple times, the coincidence factor really, really bothers me. Picking up a non-existent crumb is on thing. Picking up a non-existent crumb that still somehow fits the eventual role claim makes me worried that there was some sort of strategy change when Amrun joined the game.

OTOH I did genuinely read pjo as town, while he was in the game. Same with mrbungles and I'm still pissed at myself about setting that read aside and voting hp

The thing with you that I have trouble with is that, like I said, your case is mostly based on my posts, and yet you are voting Amrun on the basis of a grudge against other players who fake-claimed similar roles in other games. It's not precisely gambler's fallacy, but it's equally squiffy logic.

[fferyllt]

Also, I feel like you're actually picking up stuff that I have brought up to make part of your case - like the near uselessness of the early universe investigations - and yet are still scum-reading me.

[fferyllt]

It's been difficult to pick a scum partner for SoO. If Amrun is scum, it's been sort of dangerous to push her lynch.

[fferyllt]

Ffery, does it really make sense to you in the difference of how he pursued you before and after the hp leaves flip?

That's the crux of my scum read on Syryana. His reasoning there just reeks of scum trying to cover up inconsistent behavior by pretending it is consistent.

P-edit: I typed this post right before I got slammed with work and like 5 other posts happened I don't have time to read them at all

I don't know.

My own flip on that slot was terrible, but the sheer dissonance of continuing to defend the bungles read while reading hp as scummy, while it was internally consistent from the perspective of "maybe bungles wasn't around long enough to really set off my scumdar?", from an external perspective it reeked.

Of the people in this game, Syr knows my town games best. I say games because so far at MS my game has changed a lot. There is a trajectory to the changes, but it's not nicely lined up. More like the trajectory of a pinball hitting various barriers. So, even experiential meta is iffy, though I think there are some baseline things that I couldn't change if I tried, and I know a couple ms players who seem to have that stuff fairly well nailed.

I'll go back and look at Syr's before and aftr hp-flip posts.

[fferyllt]

Se're not no lynching today, so fuck off SoO and your Amrun vote. Basically you just bought yourself tomorrow's rope. So that's cute.

I've played with SoO before and he's never whined like this about lack of access, so he probably is actually scum too, so right now, I'd l ove to string him up, but getting a wagon going there is isn't going happen now.

So somebody should probably
======[]
[]======

you are wrong here, Zdenek try reading DBZ mafia..ffery was there and can tell you I got called out for the exact same thing.

... and no I wasn't scum there, either... as far as my vote goes, , I said I would move it if I had to before dead line, but I was hoping that people would at least read and discuss the shit i type rather than just dismiss it....I had preferred not to vote on my town reads and think it's a legitimate case.. there was plenty of time to at least discuss it...

@Kats... although it doesn't really matter now, I probably would have gone with you... I've played with OS quote a bit and would like to think that I can read him pretty well...

Why did you appeal to your scum read to back you up about this?

[fferyllt]

@SOO: You claimed PR a few days ago. Have you had any results of any kind since? You haven't claimed anything in days...

Unfortunately, there hasn’t been a whole lot to claim, really…
N1 I tried to inhale Psyduck and failed.
N2 I tried to inhale Psyduck and failed.
N3 I tried to inhale Magic Urn and succeeded
N4 I used my ability on Zdenek
N5 I tried to inhale Mr I

Why zdenek on N4?

Why did you appeal to your scum read to back you up about this?

You are the only living player that was in the game with me…whether or not you are scum doesn’t really matter here, as it would look pretty silly for you to say “that’s not true!” when it can easily be linked and shown..i couldn’t link it at the time because I was on my phone..

I thought you oversimplified the nature of the suspicion on you in that game a bit, but it's mild and possibly benign since the game is easy to link to.

Ffery – (if you were town) and think that I am scum, and you think Syr is town, (and unless I’m reading this wrong) then that only allows Amrun as my partner?
Seeing as everyone else is confirmed (you and Kats through Amrun) That leaves just me…and i highly doubt it's a solo scum left, so she would have to be lying about someone being confirmed, or she would have to be scum herself… So logically you shouldn’t have any problems with lynching Amrun today, right?

Syr is a big question mark in my mind. I've read him as town in every single game we have played together (with the exception of the game where I was scum and knew for sure he was town) and I have been correct. He's mostly had correct reads on me. Playing as a hydra does mean that we've gained some insight into what the other thinks, but doesn't post, and that could be contributing to his pretty much ongoing suspicion of me. And could be contributing to my increasing paranoia about him.

Also, Syrana is correct…scum would have to have fake claims, given that Antagon flipped as “Demise”… So her playing it off as “it doesn’t mean you are town” isn’t really valid..and the fact that she didn’t investigate her top scum read last night doesn’t even make sense…why would she worry about a Katsuki mislynch, if she thought she could catch scum THAT night? Again, if she really thought the whole “it doesn’t mean you are town” thing, then how would that apply to her saying that she was worrying about stopping a mislynch on Kats? It wouldn’t…

It should be pretty clear that I don't have a warm fuzzy about Amrun, unless I'm just dreaming about making posts over the weekend.

Also noted is that Amrun has not been quick-lynched and neither has Syryana..
So either Syrana is scum on Amrun’s wagon, or Amrun is scum on Syr’s wagon…and i really doubt it's the former...

But, if either of them are town, then surely a 1-2 quickhammer would have already happened. So, is it 1 scum? If it's two, are they unable to coordinate?

I’m running out of the office in just a few minutes to take some customers out and will check in a bit later (well before deadline) and place my vote on Amrun..

Maybe this is part of the coordination difficulty.

I'm most likely going to vote for you or Amrun. I don't know which yet.

[fferyllt]

He's mostly had correct reads on me

"mostly". Though certainly not all game every game, in both our cases.

[fferyllt]

I'm still not sure what to think and will put more thought into this game when I get back.

I really dislike how neither if these PRs are confirmable and it urks me greatly.

gah. Does a one-PR town even make sense?

[fferyllt]

When did you start getting paranoid about me? Last I looked I was your top townread. What happened?

By default, you are. That doesn't make it a strong town read at this point.

I can't see voting you, though.

I want to hear why SoO chosse zdenek to protect on night 4.

[fferyllt]

Some of SoO's posts from day 4.

He seemed genuinely concerned about oversoul's lynch, about putting him at L-1, etc.

If he had derailed this lynch where would it have gone next? Did it make sense for scum-SoO to be working this hard to prevent the lynch...by phone?

I dunno.

Disclaimer: Splitting this post up into two as it is hella long…and took much longer than expected…


Ok..daylight is running out today, so I’ll touch briefly on everyone…
If you would like me to go into more detail on anything, I can…

First addressing this (bolded is mine):

If i am lynched then just make sure s_o_o still responds to 1179

s_o_o ISO:

Eggplant – intro post was odd to say the least…not really sure if his MattP thing is a scum slip, as his whole post just seems awkward..now would be a good time for him to get in here and talk…as waiting is not making him look good..

These are his first set of catchup reads. His read on eggplant is a strange combination of waffling and prodding him to post more. The amount of language in that sentence ("odd," "not really sure," "awkward") that waffles while vaguely painting a scumread on him feels like scum->scum.

Eggplant already had a wagon going on him based on his single post. I had commented on it that I thought it was strange as he came in all matter-of-fact and stating that silly RVS’s will be met with a quick-lynch and demanded votes with reasons from everyone, and then abruptly left the thread…I couldn’t tell if he was serious or not, and wanted input from him…

Going through the Matt/Tierce back and forth , I really don’t think Matt is scum…
He always seems like a wild card to me…

I expect his fake-claims

, so that really doesn’t seem to sway me one way or another…
His frustration at Tierce for calling him scum does seems genuine also…

I really don’t know what to think of Antagon’s claim as it does seem a bit OP to me as well … I will say that I do recall Abarat had a similar role that self -commuted themselves and a target for the night, so it could be possible…

Bolded is a POSSIBLE explanation for the matt kill if s_o_o is scum - he may have thought matt was fakeclaiming. Anyway, the important thing here is that, once again, when talking about the Antagon slot, sword just continuously waffles. He doesn't know what to think, "it could be possible," etc. It's not just the fact that he says he doesn't know, it's the way he says it.

Matt fake-claims in pretty much every game I’ve played with him in…I’m also pretty sure it’s common knowledge… so yes, it could have been a reason he was killed…although I had nothing to do with his death…As far as the Antagon waffling..not sure what implosion means by “the way I said it”. Antagon’s claim seemed overpowered, however, I had played a recent game with a similar role in it, so I was unsure…

Antagon- Egg’s intro was odd..and Antagon’s claim seems convoluted, yet believeable…normally I’d prefer to wait on lynching him…
I will say that I didn’t care for his last post though:

I don't need to explain this at this point. Four posts later, in response to Katsuki, he says he feels better about the antagon lynch, and keeps his vote on hp. Keeping his vote on hp isn't really a scumtell in that i can see him doing it as town, but it also fits very well if he's scum.

What I meant was that Katsuki had eased my reservations a bit in regards to having to lynch Antagon if it came down to it.. i still preferred hp over Antagon …I usually prefer to play it safe, especially on D1..I didn’t want to lynch Antagon on the chance that he was what he claimed..But should it come down to Antagon or a no lynch, I wouldn’t have felt as bad hammering him if I had to…

Anyway,.i was really expecting a scum flip from hp, and that it would bullet proof my scum read of Ffery, but now I really don’t know..I went back and looked at ffery again, and now I’m thinking she’s most likely town...factoring into that is Matt’s kill…he claimed VT already…so why would scum kill a VT when there are lots of other unclaimed players out there? Ferry would not have benefitted from this, seeing as Matt only added her on his list as a “possible” scum because he saw her as “town”, and not “surefire town”…she would have no reason to be worried about Matt…same goes for OS, he was on the list for the same reason as ffery..i really don’t see why either of them would kill a claimed VT when there should be other priorities out there..and with hp gone, this narrows his list down to really only two people:
Me and Implosion…as far as Matt’s NK goes, this makes the most sense to me… and seeing as how people are saying that they don’t have a read on me or implosion, this might be the best avenue to explore...

This reasoning about matt's list is a bit... well, not true. I think. First of all i don't think scum would have killed matt because of the list if there were only one scum on the list. Second of all I don't think the scary part of a list like for scum is that there's scum on the list, it's that there's town that they'd like to ML off the list.

So yeah. To sum up, he makes sense as scum with antagon.

Unless I read wrong, implosion also wanted to lynch off of Matt’s list for reasons that scum were on it, yet he says scum would have killed Matt to mislynch off of instead:

I disagree that it's unproductive to continue analysis of his list, seeing as I believe that it is likely the reason he was NK'd. I shall therefore continue such speculation unabated.

PART 2


Ffery – I originally did not like her town read she gave to Bungle for flip-flopping on her which I already explained…hp’s flip made me question my read on her and when I went back and reread her I did notice that the miscount on the Egg Wagon (that I had originally questioned) had to have been an honest miscount..while that in itself is not alignment indicative, it still gave me a better feeling about her…MattP’s kill also helped sway me towards town Ffery, mainly because he had just got done telling her she wasn’t really a scum read of his, she would have had no real reason to kill him now that he wouldn’t be pressuring her anymore…although with implosion flipping town, I think Matt’s kill had to have been for WIFOM…Ffery did admit to thinking that Amrun (as Pjo) had copped her based on the “lil dash” flavor of Pjo’s posts and for that reason put Pjo/Amrun into the town pile…
If Ferry was scum, and knew that Amrun was town, then I would think that Pjo/Amrun would’ve been a priority target for her..If Ferry is scum, then Amrun would have to be scum as well.


Oversoul – I have OS as town…I actually thought he soft-claimed PR here:

I took things pretty personally before and saw shadows in the dark (if this game is still going on and certain events occur) I'll explain.

His #724 (believe it or not) made me feel better about him as I see him do this repeatedly as town:

Gg no re if you think I'm scum

Also, his interaction with Tierce looks like he is genuinely trying to figure her out…

Amrun – I’d actually like to revist the Pjo/Amrun slot…I really did not like the way Pjo started the game…at all…his attack on me was horribly scummy…also, at the time I thought his Universe mass claim was bad…even with Amrun’s claim now as a flavor cop (I don’t doubt her role), although I do doubt her alignment…I have been burned multiple times by scum cops, claiming to be town…I admit, I had put her on the back-burner once she and Tierce got into it…I did not have a definitive read on Tierce, so the interaction between the two was welcome for me..it did not read to me as scum buddies trying to fake an argument in thread .. I was hoping more would come from it…also, depending on the results that Amrun claims, we could lynch her to see if she is telling the truth…if she is telling the truth , then we have a list of confirmed town..if he isn’t then we are down 1 scum. Thoughts on this?

And shit…out of time..

Others:

Katsuki – I had a town read on Kats mainly based on the MattP kill..but that theory went all to hell when hp flipped town…so I’ll have to reread..

Syryana – Syryana is in my town pile…I did like his early game and when he went after ffery

Tammy – I wanted to re-read Tammy again but I’ve run out of time…her interactions with everyone did look pretty genuine..
I did notice here that she keeps saying “if you knew me, you’d know I’m town” ..in the Abarat game when she was scum, she shied away from statements like that…so there is that…although not sure of what I think about her claim with the “following Fia” flavor, and saying that its not indicative of whether or not Fia is in the game, especially after Zdenek had just claimed Fia…

Zdenek – Has been the strongest town in the game..his game is pretty straight forward..no fluff…just hard work…


I’ll pop in from my phone before deadline and place a vote…

Katsuki – I had a town read on Kats mainly based on the MattP kill..but that theory went all to hell when hp flipped town…so I’ll have to reread..

This is in the wrong order.

It doesn't bother anyone else that SoO got the order wrong here?

He's saying that he had town read on Katsuki because of the MattP kill, but that happened after hp flipped town.

i meant when implosion flipped town..I was in a rush at the end there and was trying to leave work...

ugh... we only have a few hours left...
im fairly certain OS town and
id prefer not to lynch him...
also If it is in fact 4/11 it might be best to no lynch today
that way we can have the best odds going in to tomorrow...

I'll try and get back on before deadline if I can...

guys, please unvote...
if today is mylo then all it takes is one town on town vote and scum can try and quick-lynch...

POE, largely. You, Amrun, fery are town. Only one of {Katsuki, Oversoul} is scum. I also didn't like his "guys, you should unvote and stuff". Feels like he's reaching for towncred (and he's not actually doing anything else).

i had other games that i was working on yesterday when i saw the votes...considering this could be mylo i asked that they unvote...as far as "not doing anything else" , at the time i posted I still hadn’t re-read the people that I had needed to, which is what I ‘v been trying to do today...


Oversoul -
I still think Oversoul is town..

And yet I was until he claimed.
And yet I realized the implications of the wording of his role before you or Katsuki.
And yet I unvoted at that time.
And yet you can't read.

Or at least don't like to.

Enomis is exactly right. Oversoul's unvote makes absolutely no sense in this context.

Here was his reasoning for that:

Thought process about the unvote was... I need to think about this!
I had similar thoughts to Zach about the claim being too strong for it to be scum. Then I had thoughts about the wording not making sense and it being a fakeclaim. Then I noticed something else that Antagon posted that made go back to thinking the claim might be town

Unless i’m reading this wrong somehow, his unvote makes sense to me...he originally looked at it as too powerful to be scum, then thought it might be considered a fake claim....
then unvoted when he noticed the wording of Antagon possibly being the protector of Enomis’ role..he didn’t unvote until after Antagon stated the following:

But in a game where the death of one role makes it Night for the rest of the game...

He did mention (#626) that it was still probably best to lynch Antagon as there would probably be no real way to get info from his role...and then he also mentioned that he was still unsure about Antagon...
I could understand this, as i had reservations too...
Also, like i said, i’ve noticed that OS/town always says things like:

Gg no re if you think I'm scum

If you think I'm scum for this then well... good luck.

I don’t remember him ever doing this as scum…


Kats – going back and looking at Katsuki, I’m leaning town…opening post could be seen as a soft claim to VT…Kats really pushed for the D1 lynch of Antagon, especially when there was a lot of uncertainty in regards to Antagon’s claim…I think Kats could have easily jumped over to the hp wagon and not been questioned about it…Going through his ISO I really don’t see anything damning either…also Katsuki’s #1368 right before deadline seems very town to me..


I am V/LA tomorrow, as I’m sure most everyone else is, but I will be here on Friday all day before deadline…and seeing as it will mostly be dead at work, I should have plenty of time to finish up my reads…
I still need to re-read Syryana, but I definitely want to take a closer look at Amrun and Ffery..i still don’t like the fact that everyone auto-assumes flavor cop is town…like I said , I’ve been burned multiple times from flavor cops turning out to be scum (FF6 and 90’s cartoon) and if she is scum, she could easily clear a scum mate off as town.

Unless i’m reading this wrong somehow, his unvote makes sense to me...he originally looked at it as too powerful to be scum, then thought it might be considered a fake claim....

The thing is, it's not too strong to be scum. It is too strong to be town.

it is OP'd either way....

Also, please note that OS is at L-1

i will be re-reading Syr, Ffery, and Amrun today...

fucking hate that I have no idea who SoO wants to lynch right now,

most likely it will be from Syr, Amrun, Ffer...I've stated why i think OS is town, and Kats had opportunity D1 to quietly let a mislynch go through, but instead was calling for Antagon's lynch the loudest.....

[fferyllt]

Why the fuck can't you see voting him

Why are you considering voting outside of confscum wtf

My brain hurts

Who is Syr's scumbuddy?

[fferyllt]

Thank you for dodging answering the actual question. Why are you getting paranoid about me?

because it's what I do.

Who is on the sidelines today?

[fferyllt]

WHO IS ON THE SIDELINES TODAY?

[fferyllt]

Why did we decide Katsuki is town? Is he playing like town at LYLO?

[fferyllt]

I am worried your slapfight is town on town.

If I vote Amrun it will be because of the lil dashes. I can't get past that being a coincidence.

[fferyllt]

But seriously, Katsuki's involvement today doesn't worry you at all?

His only real line of attack was about Amrun posting in another game earlier in the day than she first posted in this one when day 6 started.

[fferyllt]

nobody makes a good partner. lost cable internet. on phone for now. .

[fferyllt]

actually if amrum is scum then katsuki or I must be her psrtner, no? "confirming" our claims?

[fferyllt]

Internet is back for now.

Does that make any sense at all?

I've eliminated SoO (today anyway) on the basis of his day 4 play and arguing against the oversoul lynch.

I'm putting you aside, too, for today.

Amrun must have some sort of flavor ability. Maybe it would have helped locate the Armageddon triggering player.

[fferyllt]

fucking lil dashes.

pjo knew my character was in the game. I think he knew it was me, too. He defended me at least a couple times while he was active on day 1.