NY175: Sycamore Scuffle

[Wake1]

Confirming.

[Wake1]

Welcome everyone. Finally I have a few drops of energy to spare.

First of all, Toomai, I'm stealing your damned little icons because they're neat.

It's a normal game, but last I checked they're allowed at most two unique roles.

OK, pardon my paranoia, but I tend to distrust comments by new accounts like HS. Could be alt faking it, or not. I can never tell.

Hey now, that's ridiculous Farside. 5:16 seems way too unbalanced. I'm iffy even on 4:17. I can see 4:16:1, or 3:3:15 even. And, Farside, don't be too quick to judge a book by its cover. Take some time getting to know the person first, I always say.

Also let's get a discussion going: is it moreso Town or Scum that tends to confirm later in time?

You get those fuckers, Toomai.

Let's put some on this little nut for his maybe-slip: VOTE: Not-Mafia.

Now, Scarab, why exactly are you voting NM? He may be a nut, and an innocent one at that, so why be such a hardass on him? Probably capitalizing on the gaffe, eh?

FoS: Scarab

.

Alina, my dear, Mr. Wake has been very busy bandaging festering wounds, cleaning debilitated old folk, and everything else that comes with the wonderful, back-breaking world of health care. And it's SO worth it. Hey, are you an alt? Oh, and I'd like to know if you're Scum, too, 'cause you're cheeky, and I'm trying to read it.

FoS

Farside

and

TheAdrienC

for dubious actions needing explanation. Get cracking.

[Wake1]

Can't tell if that's an OMGUS, or...? Help me out here.

[Wake1]

Interesting. NM's paranoia here raises him a bit into the Townie list.

[Wake1]

Checking reactions.

[Wake1]

Alright, if you guys run me up give me time to talk.

OK, let's get down to brass tacks. I voted NM because I wanted to pressure him for him maybe-slip. Because that's what ii is, a potential slip.

Of COURSE I'm going to

FoS

the other guy who's also voting you over the maybe-alt-slip. I

know

I'm Town, but I don't if he is, so I want a reaction, and I certainly have gotten some. And NM's faulty post about fluff was interesting, too, because methinks it's him just being cynical and/or paranoid, which makes me think that comes from a Townie mindset. What I did find a bit odd was his 55's last sentence, where he says I pretty much called everyone who didn't post "/confirm" Scum, which I didn't. Huh.

Then NM wonders why I find his post interesting, and that his paranoia raises him up a bit in my list. Which in itself is interesting. At least to me.

Salamence et al should explain themselves a bit more, too. I vote NM for what looks like a gaffe, and then FoS another guy doing the same thing, to gauge reactions. You can call that bad all you want, but you'd be incorrect. It's not hypocritical in the slightest if you're trying to Scumhunt.

Also, Salamence's 64 needs to be remembered. That he's seen other people called Scum for the maybe-slip NM did is immaterial, I'm not sure NM's Scum at this point, but I want to see more of his reactions regarding it. 65's crap, because it's an appeal to authority that has no weight to it. Farside I think he's paranoid because he's overreacting a bit in a paranoid fashion in regards to my post. That tells me he's maybe more likely Town than Scum.

Reinoe's vote is crappy, too. This is Day 1, folks. Day 1 is nothing

but

paranoia and speculation.

Step back and breathe a bit, mob.

Now add more reasoning for why you're voting the way you're all voting, and be

very

specific. I want more details just in case Town shoots itself in the foot.

[Wake1]

Well, yeah, I'm still reaction testing.

I'm gonna milk this cow for all it's worth.

[Wake1]

Reaction testing sort of loses its effect when you tell people what you're doing.

Not when you keep drawing out waves of subsequent reactions.

Of COURSE I'm going to

FoS

the other guy who's also voting you over the maybe-alt-slip.

So you normally join wagons and then immediately FoS most of the other people on it when you voted for the exact same reason as them?

At times. Depends on my mood, and how unpredictable I feel like being.

I

know

I'm Town, but I don't if he is, so I want a reaction, and I certainly have gotten some. And NM's faulty post about fluff was interesting, too, because methinks it's him just being cynical and/or paranoid, which makes me think that comes from a Townie mindset.

How is paranoia a town trait and why it was faulty to call it fluff, what the set-up spec do to advance the game state?

Paranoia's a Town trait because Scum typically knows who the Town members are. The only exception is multiball, but that's left up to the imagination.

I read utter paranoia as a Town trait because it's usually tough for Scum to perfectly mimic it when they usually know who's who. Come on, you know this.

And another thing: I don't see anything wrong with Setup speculation. Day 1 is nothing but speculation, so complaining about gameplay spec in the Day when everything's spec is, to say the least, hypocritical. Gameplay spec may not advance the game, but what sort of speculation and paranois does Day 1?

Can't remember exactly which bit you say I said was fluff. If you would please post it in its entirety.

What I did find a bit odd was his 55's last sentence, where he says I pretty much called everyone who didn't post "/confirm" Scum, which I didn't. Huh.

You did, you either voted or FoSed the majority of players who had posted since the game started

And? You forgot to mention Boonskies, Burning_Town, and Aegor. So what if I

FoS

'd them? Forgive me, but this is Mafia, where paranoia and accusations to gain reactions is the norm. This isn't Monopoly where you try to buy each other's properties.

Then NM wonders why I find his post interesting, and that his paranoia raises him up a bit in my list. Which in itself is interesting. At least to me.

Again, why is paranoia a towntell?

As I said earlier.

Salamence et al should explain themselves a bit more, too. I vote NM for what looks like a gaffe, and then FoS another guy doing the same thing, to gauge reactions. You can call that bad all you want, but you'd be incorrect. It's not hypocritical in the slightest if you're trying to Scumhunt.

"I was reaction testing so nothing I do can be scummy"

Wrong. I NEVER said that. You did. Just because I'm reaction testing doesn't mean paranoid Townies or clever Scum can't get their take on it.

Well, yeah, I'm still reaction testing.

I'm gonna milk this cow for all it's worth.

You reaction test ended the moment you called it a reaction test, so why is your vote still on me if I moved up your town list?

Incorrect. Every subsequent reaction is valuable. If you have not noticed already, at least two other players have questioned the responses in response to my opening post which started all this fun.

[Wake1]

You're keeping me busy. Good. I'll keep you guys busy, too. They don't call me a catalyst for nothing.

Reinoe's vote is crappy, too. This is Day 1, folks. Day 1 is nothing

but

paranoia and speculation.

@farside as well...

I try to always explain my vote. It's almost as if you guys would have preferred naked vote, which is just not my style.

Setup speculation is a dumb timewaster that people do to look busy. And I find that paranoia increases as the game goes on not decreases. That's my personal experience, maybe some other folks are different.

You hardly explained your vote, either. Any average player can look at a post and say "HRMM, setup specualtion, he's using FoSs, he's throwing paranoia around.... I don't like, so ya vote him!" No, stop using lazy generalities. You're playing Town-Wake this game, and he's hungry to get down to the very bones of the matter. No explain to me in no uncertain details EXACTLY WHY you voted for me. The more details the better. Otherwise you just come off as lazy Town or opportunistic Scum. And Setup spec isn't dumb at all when there's valid questions as to what the heck we're playing in. Wait a minute—since when is setup speculation Scummy? Never argued either way that paranoia increases or decreases as the game progresses, so tell us why you felt you needed to bring it up—my sole contention on that front was that Day 1 was pretty much nothing but paranoia and speculation. So voting me for being paranoid and speculating during Day 1 is bogus, because we have no workable information until Day 2. Indeed some other folks are different.

[

post 50 is possibly the worst intro I've ever seen. Setup speculation, suspicious FoS, throwing paranoia around. It's got just about everything I don't want to see.

VOTE: Wake88

This feels tacked on and unnecessary added comments to justify a vote.
Gut call.

That's what I was thinking, too. He's going down on my list a bit. Not sure about you just yet.

Unvote: Not_Mafia

Vote: Wake88

What the fuck...?

Missed this post, why did you change vote, was it because he FoSed you?

See? Another good question as a result of my post.

Maybe I have the terminology wrong, but I made that intro post in order to get a lot of different reactions to gauge, measure, weigh, and respond to. If it's not a reaction test, then it's doing something to stir a wave of reactions to analyze and use.

Incorrect. Every subsequent reaction is valuable. If you have not noticed already, at least two other players have questioned the responses in response to my opening post which started all this fun.

How will you moving your vote somewhere useful affect your reaction test? And please respond to the rest of my post

Wait, what? What are you trying to say here? As for the rest of your post you're insinuating I'm not responding to, please quote and bold it here for me to respond to. Your first sentence I just quoted doesn't seem to mesh with the bit of my post you just quoted.

Reaction testing sort of loses its effect when you tell people what you're doing.

Not when you keep drawing out waves of subsequent reactions.

Apart from the fact that scum know what you're doing so can adjust their reactions appropriately to look like town.

Scum's not nearly as clever as they think they are, friend. Should they adjust their reactions, there's always that chance that it gets noticed and noted for the future.

VOTE: Wake88 for obvious reasons.



Scum, if you want a quicklynch, run up reinoe.

You had better damn well tell us what those obvious reasons are, Aegor. I KNOW YOU'RE CLEVER, SO BACK THAT UP.

Also, what do you mean by telling Scum if they want a quicklynch they should run up reinoe? You and he could very well be scum partners, too, so pardon me if I take that with a cynical grain of salt.

VOTE: Wake88 for obvious reasons.



Scum, if you want a quicklynch, run up reinoe.

So you think wakes comments there after is scummy....why?

Indeed. If you're Town, I'd like to see you put more "oomph" into your subtly-indignant Townish inquisition. If you're Scum-Farside you're going to have to be more believable than that, yes?

Okay, I ended up getting back way earlier than I thought I would, so hi.

Responses to wake88:

No, I'm not an alt. Also, I'd like someone to answer this for me, I really don't understand how asking someone "are you scum," is supposed to get an answer worth anything. I guess, theoretically, someone's choice of words could be different, depending, but you'd have to know that person somewhat well for that to mean anything. I've never understood why people would ask that, so if anyone could explain that to me, please do.

Also, I'm confused why you would admit what you're doing is a reaction test. Shouldn't you, you know, keep testing for a while? Getting scared, fearful for your life maybe, after getting a few votes?

@TheAdrienC

You think starting a bandwagon by page 2 is excessive, but yet you join in on one on page 3. What's the big difference between the two pages that's so important? Also, how are we supposed to "get more info before the hammer," if you're voting him? Shouldn't you want to pressure other people so, oh, I don't know, other people talk and contribute, and potentially scumslip?

Along with

farside22

, I agree also felt reinoe's explanation for their vote on wake88's vote was forced, but I believe them for now when they say they just wanted to explain why. I wouldn't want to just vote someone without explaining, either.

@Aegor

Why do you think scum would vote reinoe if they wanted a quicklynch? They don't have a single vote against them, as far as I can tell. I would think scum would moreso want to join in on the wake88 wagon, if he's town.

Ah. Finally something particularly interesting.

All alts say they're not alts. Don't sweat it.

Also what does that part have to do with anything? The "are you Scum?" bit. It's a way to directly get a response. Unfortunately Mafias players nowadays are lazy, and don't want to answer most questions. I need a different beam gun for those fuckers. Anyways, I've seen other players in the past ask rhetorical questions like that, so, as with most things, I absorbed that particularly simple game tactic. Sentences 3 and 4 sounded just a wee bit too smooth. HRM...



The thing is, Alina, is that this "test" isn't over. I jolted the game with an incident, and am still gathering valuable responses. Chain reaction, yeah? Technically this test isn't over, and is still going as long as I want it to. Or maybe that's just called playing Mafia. ... Shut up.

I approve your questions directed towards TheAdrienC and Aegor. However I'd like to see you put more mental energy into your questions. Come on now; I know you've got more energy laying around somewhere.

AND... damn it. Too many posts. I'm only up to 88. I've got energy to burn, so please be

patient

with me.

[Wake1]

You say you're keeping your vote on me despite townreading me as part of your reaction test. How does keeping your vote on me garner useful reactions and/or help your reaction test? How would moving your vote negatively affect your reaction test?

...and?

I Townread you a bit for your paranoia. Don't assume I should now get my attention off of you. I'll change my vote when I want, not because someone else is freaking out with just one vote on him. I'm still getting reactions from you and others, so pardon me if I find them just a bit useful to read over. I'll my vote when I'm ready to. You've got one vote and 24 Days left, so stay calm. Be grateful I'm not deciding to now park my vote on you for the next 20 days. Now instead of flinching, how about you be useful and question the actions and words of people who may have been agreeing with you lately? Try looking at things from different viewpoints, I always say.

[Wake1]

I already answered your questions in that post.

I'll answer questions directed towards me, but I'm not going to waste my time with word games.

[Wake1]

He stated he won't move the vote till he see's something scummy.

Link?

Making a Reads List atm.

[Wake1]

That. Thanks.

Now WHY are you defending me?

[Wake1]

He stated he won't move the vote till he see's something scummy.

Link?

Making a Reads List atm.

Ready to not scummy

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... a#p5990279

My mistake I did assume ready to was to mean someone else who was scummy.

...

[Wake1]

...

I have some thoughts I'd like to share with you all. This is a long read, but it's a thorough one. If you would, please read through it carefully.

Contrary to what some people have said, I'm neither a VI or a bad player. I'm just, well, busy, and I deal with the hand life's given me. You can't control everything, but you can certainly control your reactions to them. ADHD being one of those cards... I've had to take things off my plate in order to allocate time and energy... here. Some of you have probably never played with me before, and if you haven't played with me some 6+ months ago, then what you have seen or heard so far is nowhere close to who I am. It's... complicated. I'm amorphous, and am prone to changing myself on a dime if I feel like it. Posting like Regfan or Mastin comes easy to me, but I do it rarely, because it's rather boring. Sometimes I say and do odd things when bored, or when everyone feels slow to me. I'm a chronic over-thinker, too, thanks to my disorder; it's tough to focus, but when I do, it's at a gifted level. When I get truly focused, time feels like it stops. My mind's a beautiful mess, but when it finds its lost focus, watch out.

HunterSeeker's 28 felt like a fine strand of hair on my skin, perception-wise, because he said he was super town just from asking a question. I'm not sure what the norm is for giving players the benefit of the doubt. Asking the question does not make him super town, but chances are he wasn't serious to begin with... or is new to the game.

Regarding Not_Mafia's 24, it may have been a slip. It may not have. Only he knows. My goal was to metaphorically drop some pebbles into the still waters... and watch the ripples flow. That did happen. His supposed "slip" wasn't an obvious slip... and I think, perhaps, certain players know this.

One thing I didn't understand upon review of this thread was shaddowez's comment after his vote of Alina in 43. It probably means nothing, but I would appreciate that bit of enlightenment none-the-less.

Alina, please don't be too quick to judge in posts like 44. I'm not bad at the game; my way of playing is unique only to me. Farside's 47 echoes the fact that she doesn't really know who the person she's talking about is, or what exactly the underlying details are.

My 50 intended to generate reactions. Discussion. Part of being a good Town player is to get people talking. Some may disagree with that, but it's really of little consequence in my book. Not-Mafia decided to react in 51 with a direct vote. He could have chose many different ways to respond, but he chose one. Suffice it to say it did look like an OMGUS, a retaliatory vote for being voted. Yes, NM, I voted for you over your gaffe, and I did FoS someone who did the same. Why? Reactions. I wouldn't say there was much if any fluff in my 50 either, NM; your saying that just sounds like sourness, to be frank. If you're a member of the Town, you would do well to reign in your emotions and hurt feelings when playing this game. No one's perfect, but if you can do that it'd help your gameplay in general. The reason I initially stated your paranoia raised you a bit into the Townie List is because of the way you responded in 55; upon reflection some of it feels like paranoia, and part of it just feels sour.

Not sure which post Salamence was referring to in 54 regarding a WIFOM bomb. I say he feels opportunistic in 58. Maybe he was hoping for an easy lynch. Clusk and Scarab feel similarly along those lines. Maybe they really didn't put much forethought into what happened, or they didn't think deeply enough... or they're Scum looking for a fabricated reason to place a vote. At this time it's too early to tell.

A bandwagon may have been excessive, or not (61). 3 votes in a Day that requires 11 doesn't seem like something to worry that much over. Though, my vote wasn't random, Adrien. I did vote him for what may or may not have been a slip, in hopes of garnering reactions. The additional FoSs were just multi-tasking, fishing for more reactions. And... no... what I did wasn't hypocritical in the slightest. Farside mentioned earlier on PL'ing me for, iirc, being useless. She doesn't know me. At all. What she did was different than me placing a vote on NM for a maybe-slip, and then FoS'ing another player for doing the same thing in order to gain reactions. It's apples and orange, Adrien, and I feel you already know this. At this moment of review, I think your FoS on me was appropriate, because it appears you were curious, albeit somewhat mistaken, I think; cannot say that for others at that anchor in time.

I was—and still am—searching for reactions. Hungry for them, I guess you could say. That you've seen some later-confirmed Townies called Scum for what NM did is only part of your own personal experiences. Do you know if all Townies who maybe-slip get called Scum? Do you, at this moment, think he's Town or Scum over this maybe-slip? You mention this bit, yet you don't vote him, so perhaps you yourself are a Townie who doesn't call Townies Scum for what NM did. Or are you? That I considered him a bit raised in my Town list at that point in time based on his reactions does not, Salamence, mean that I know he'll flip Town. As a member of the Town, I do not know who's who. At the time of your 64 I haven't unvoted, either, because I'm still in the process of gaining reactions. Your "nope" means little here.

65 sounds like something I'd hear from a teenage boy at a Yu-Gi-Oh! tournament. How old are you and Salamence, if you would?

Farside, in 67 you ask how NM's paranoia was paranoia. The way he responded by mentioning that my vote and FoS were over the exact same thing felt like a Townish thing, an action of vigilance borne of paranoia. From my perspective he actually called part of my initial post "fluff," and insinuated that I could be trying to look like I'm contributing. Knowing the truth from where I stand, that sentiment does indeed feel paranoid. This is furthered by him stating that I pretty much called everyone who posted—sans "/confirm"—Scum. A reach, it would appear, possibly backed by paranoia. In that same post I don't understand your comment about me either joking because of my previous post, and/or calling it an omgus. Would you clarify that bit, please?

Please note in 68 that TheAdrienC moved to vote me without getting more information.

The more I read it, reinoe's 69 is horrible. He says my intro is one of the worst he's seen, and lists setup spec, using the FoS, and "throwing paranoia around" as some of the reasons. That, to me, sounds a bit like a joke, and I'd be content to ignore it. However, I can't, because it doesn't make any sense. His own signature notwithstanding, it does feel like he's fabricating reasons for his Scumread and vote.

Not sure about Farside's alignment in 71, because although she agreed with Salamence's faulty 64, she did question reinoe's terrible 69. I don't know what to think of this at the moment. Sort of feel the same about Clusk a bit, because he questions Scarab over his own unexplained vote in 74.

As for Clusk's 75, I may have been using the wrong term. What do you call it when you do something in a Mafia game in order to net a lot of reactions, and consecutive reactions? Like tossing a pebble into a clear pond and watching whichever way the little fish move.

Going over Not_Mafia's 76 again, I may as well post something. I don't normally vote someone for something and then FoS some who seems to be voting the same way against my target. What is commonplace for me, though, is being an unpredictable catalyst of sorts who can and sometimes does say and do things to stir up discussion. We need players to talk. Ever hosted a Mafia game, and watched Town lose because players weren't being active? I find paranoia to be a Town trait because Townies don't know who's who, and the unknown creates fear, which creates paranoia. If it's one Scum team versus the Town, there is little Scum has to fear when it comes to knowledge of one's alignment. This changes a bit if there's two Scum factions, to varying degrees. I don't find setup speculation to be unhelpful fluff because people are trying to come up with answers and possibilities on what situation they're dealing with. If I were lost in a cave system with twelve other people, I'd talk a bit with them over whether there're tunnels that lead to safety, or rivers, or this, that, etc. When we don't know, we try to make educated hopefully reasonable guesses. I never said that reaction testing means nothing I do can be incorrectly perceived as Scummy, either. As stated earlier, I'm still gathering reactions, and I'll unvote you when I want to. That you think I should move my vote from you simply because I said you moved slightly up my Town list doesn't give me reason to do so. As for your 80, I have and am still getting reactions; it doesn't matter to me what you think of it so long as I continue to receive a barrage of reactions than can be read and digested.

Clusk, Scum's not nearly as clever as they think they are (82). That's the illusion.

Aegor's vote in 83 is either lazy or opportunistic. That's how I'm seeing it right now.

Alina, 88, play is between shallow and deep. It's not so much about the specific question being asked, but the reaction to it, if any. Is the reaction angry? Smooth? A retaliation? Silence? All of these can be remembered and used in the future. As said before, I may be using the term incorrectly: my intro was meant to stir up reaction, discussion, and on. It certainly did, and I'd do it over again. I do like in your same post how Adrian said that a bandwagon in page 2 was excessive, yet joined in on one in page 3, especially while not having gotten more information. His actions don't seem to mesh with what he's saying. You also echo my question to Aegor about his reinoe comment.

I'm not liking Scarab's 89.

I wouldn't call that pressure, Adrien. 90. What you consider a screw-up isn't. In exact detail, what was it in page 3 that you deemed Scummy and worthy of a vote? Before you answer this, read through this post and keep it in mind. Adrien, what do you feel about Alina's 91?

I do not remember which games I've done so, Not_Mafia. When I feel like being unpredictable, than of course I will do things like that and more. However, I don't remember when I've done that exact act. My experience goes over many games on many forums over years, so I don't really remember. Hell if I'd remember if they were useful, either. I'm looking for reactions in Day 1 because I don't want to simply lynch someone at random, or join someone else's wagon without good reason. As you say, there is information Day 1, and that is where dropping a pebble to note how the little fish move comes into play. I disagree that it's disingenuous, though, because Day 1 we have absolutely no solid facts to work with. There is information, but I doubt it's the kind of information that can be universally accepted by every living player. Bob dying and turning up as a Godfather is a universal fact in a hypothetical game. Opining that Gordy is Scummy for a handful of "reasons" isn't universally accepted fact. Not sure exactly what you meant by the multiball/paranoia/exception/possibilities bit is about. Please clarify with links. Another thing that should be mentioned, Not_Mafia, is that using the FoS doesn't mean you're calling someone Scum. It means you're watching them. That bit of fact in the wiki basically destroys part of your comments towards me. I haven't dismissed every criticism leveled against me by using "reaction test" as an excuse, so that's not fact. I don't really care what people think while I work to get reactions and find Scum. Why do you think I haven't cared to change my vote from you in spite of your vocalizing about it? I'll have to look over how many "misunderstandings" you've had regarding my posts thus far, but I'm starting to like where my vote is.

Oh, I like Clusk's 97. Always ask for specific clarification on things that don't make sense.

I don't understand Aegor's 100. Alina, Not_Mafia, Farside, everyone: what do you make of that?

Caught up to post #100.

[Wake1]

I will be online tomorrow.

The hostility and immaturity in this game is a turn-off, but regardless I'm aiming to post in-depth posts for each from #5 and up, while including reads, if possible. The reason I am not quick to label someone as Scum is because I don't like being wrong. There are some players I get gut feelings on, and I'll be focusing more on that soon.

I hope everyone has had a damned good 4th of July. I pigged out on chilled watermelon this evening, and am feeling quite happy.

[Wake1]

Hi guys,I haven't forgotten about the game. Just keep getting slammed with emergency shifts (CNA in homecare).

I'm gonna try to catch up with all these page and post individual info/reads (trying to make it easier for myself to play and keep track of large games like this).

[Wake1]

Also, UNVOTE: Not_Mafia.

[Wake1]

Also, UNVOTE: Not_Mafia.

Good point, btw.

HS's vote was done still on Page 2, during RVS, and hasn't taken it off it after 21 pages. Actually, on 209, he reiterated his vote.

Gosh darnit, son, speak up!

What do you think of 266, when i did? I'd like to know if players are listening.

[Wake1]

Boon is obvtown, knock it off.

I'd like to know what exactly makes him obvtown to you.

If people don't agree with you then should can and will simply disregard your noise.

No one is above inquiry, and you'll not be shielding anyone from suspicion here.

I want to know exactly why you think he's obvtown when he isn't, and why you feel the need to try and put yourself between him and other players.

[Wake1]

It's a problem with my play. I always come off as scummy when I'm town. Even if I scumhunt to the max.

Just be honest, and don't let Paranoids get to you. People come up with any reason to call others Scummy. It's just part of the game. What they really want is for you to be active and talking and sharing ideas and suspicions while comparing lists, etc. All you can do is push ahead.

[Wake1]

Is BP known for ignoring questions?

[Wake1]

The votes on HunterSeeker: How do you know he's lurking? Has he been posting elsewhere here?

[Wake1]

Boon is obvtown, knock it off.

I'd like to know what exactly makes him obvtown to you.

If people don't agree with you then should can and will simply disregard your noise.

No one is above inquiry, and you'll not be shielding anyone from suspicion here.

I want to know exactly why you think he's obvtown when he isn't, and why you feel the need to try and put yourself between him and other players.

What has he done to be scum?

You will reply by saying active lurking.

I will counter by saying I would lurk actively if I suddenly saw 20 pages too.

What has he done to be anything? That's the point. He hasn't done much. However, you and I both know that effort, content, and post count is NOT indicative of alignment. Anti-Town? Lazy Town? Sure. But don't try to bullshit us with your puffed chest about how he must be actively lurking, or Scum for not doing much.

Here, let's get down to brass tacks. Use as few words as possible:


Why

exactly

do you suspect Boonskies?


No bullshit. Just answer the question and keep it brief.

[Wake1]

My top is still Scarab.

Also slight scumread on Clusk.

Mind explaining this in more detail, please?

[Wake1]

Are you caught up Wake?

No, I'm not. And no, that's not good enough reason for you to bitch.

Did skim through some crap about ordering and manipulation, but that whole issue is largely a distraction.

Going through at my own pace, as

[Wake1]

*as I wish.

[Wake1]

Didn't mean it as an accusatory question

Sure you didn't.

It's not like we're playing Mafia where murderous people look anywhere they can for BS reasons to lynch Townies.

No, I will play at my own pace. I don't have to read every single post in this huge game just to be caught up.

[Wake1]

Not_Mafia, what do you think of AdrienC?

[Wake1]

I can't remember specifically why I thought Clusk was scummy, though if you want I can go back and find it.

If you want to have my ear in this game, you would.

Till someone named clusk wants to explain how sal was manipulating or if you find it crap tell me how sal manipulated votes.....because he didn't

Don't advertisements do this, where they say things like "Come here, buy now!:, etc, because it leaves an impression? I remember reading somewhere that it was part of the psychology behind influencing people to come in and buy.

[Wake1]

*Rolls sleeves up*

You don't suspect

who

, Salamence? 610

BP's either Anti-Town or he's got something to hide. He completed disregarded my 577 and then pretended it didn't exist. Probably pissed himself a bit at the thought of giving his thoughts on my post. Yeah, I know, it's

so hard

to respond to direct questions. You WILL answer me on this, BP, or I'll pester you for answers for the remainder of the game. Don't you

dare

think for one minute you can run and hide from questions, little buddy. I'll be on you like a daschund in heat.

Explain yourself, Adrien. 578 has you saying you're listening but taking my reasoning with a grain of salt. Yeah. OK. Why? Walk us through this for us all why don't you? Hey, don't look at me like that. You're the one who made the comment, so you might as well explain the thought behind it.

Guys, I'm thinking we should put some pressure on BP.

Or Boonskies. Or whoever else that's not really doing anything.

I want some fucking answers, so VOTE: BP.

Mirhawk I don't know much about that issue in 618. It's a matter of debate what the psychology is around telling people to vote, and whether it's on a sub-conscious level or not. I do know that barking for people to vote someone else a certain way is a deliberate act to get them to behave a certain way. Or maybe Salamence is just flexing his spirit muscles, trying to get players to bend to his will a bit. I necver thought of it before, but I've got to thank that cheeky fucker for the idea. I don't know about your vote atm, and it's too early to weigh it accurately. Now stop being so careful and get more active.

@ shaddowez

621: Oh, ok. Thanks for the elucidation. Anything else?

Like hell you're obvtown, Boonskies. What you are is impotent. 301: "Oh myyyy, they're voting meeee.... I guess I should vote myselffff... waaah..." Do not make excuses in my presence, Boonskies. You'll get no sympathy from me. I get none in general, and I expect you and everyone else not to, either. Have a spine and show an interest in the game, yeah? You've done NOTHING to be obvtown. All you've done is whine about how incompetent and Scummy you are. Newsflash: That's not being Townish. That's called being a Weenie. Show you've got some damned spirit and actually

question

people for once, why don't you?

629: I highly doubt that. More than once in my time playing Mafia has some uptight swamp eunuch asked me that question to try and use it to lynch me. So what if I'm not caught up. If I don't want to read every single post I'm sure as hell not going to.

Oh

, I don't get offended, either. I reveal my latent abrasiveness.

[Wake1]

Basically what I'm saying is that I'm reading everything you're saying, but I don't trust you. You're still one of my top scumreads. That's why I'm saying I'm taking everything you say with a grain of salt. I'm taking your word as someone who may be an enemy or may not be any enemy. Until I figure out you're on the same side as I am or not (which is that of the town), then I'm going to be very cautious with you. Sound fair?

I expect nothing less. However, you mentioned reasoning, and I'd like to know what your thoughts are behind the reasonings of my larger post and others.

What do you think of Salamence's OMGUS, Adrien?

[Wake1]

Don't overdo it guys. You're not

that

convincing.

[Wake1]

I will have some thoughts later. Going to bed soon.

[Wake1]

Mirhawk

Information

His 269 notes Scarab's seemingly opportunistic vote on me, and finds it "pretty Goddamn Scummy." In that same post Mirhawk also states he "likes" how Scarab implies he's Scum for defending me, yet notes that Scarab states that I might not even be Scum. Mirhawk also states he has experience with me, which makes him allowed to have opinions on what is in or out of my character. He also states he bets Scarab would be okay with a policy lynch. He also says that he really doesn't like one of my posts because I hedge on just about every single thing by adding "mights" or "maybe's" to them.

He also wondered aloud what my reaction I was looking for were, what my opinions are on the players I speak of, or even who my scumreads are. His 280 has him mouthing an insult and questioning Scarab as to why he voted my way. 295 shows him asking a question but neglecting a question mark. He continues sparring with Scarab in 461, 464, 470, and 474. His top scumread in 579 is Scarab, and he's got a slight scumread on Clusk, while eyeing BP and SKOT; reasons sans Scarab were not given at that time.

Mirhawk tells me he already posted reasons for why he's thinking Scarab is Scum, and that he didn't specifically remember why he thought Clusk was scummy; he did say he'd be willing to go back and look for it. The reason in 618 was because Scarab found Sal Scummy over whether he was being manipulative or not. And that when pressured was put on Scarab, Mirhawk says Scarab backed off, saying that he thought Salamence was town anyways. Mirhawk raises a point that, if Scarab thought Sal was town, why undermine him by calling him manipulative?

757 has him saying that he understands where the fake bit on AdrienC is coming from. Mirhawk also mentions alignment indication. States Clusk has gone into "full lurk mode," and mentions that the timing doesn't make him look any better. He's now actively interested in a Clusk lynch pending his responses to what players have said about him. Also notes that Scarab will ignore Mirhawk if he can't get him to change his vote. Then states he doesn't want to waste our lynch on a lurker when we can get way more valuable information from lynching an active player.

At the time of this posting, Mirhawk's vote is still on Scarab.

Analysis

Initially Mirhawk reads as Townish to me, because he questions Scarab's dubious actions. His insinuation that Scarab would be fine with a policy lynch is null to me. What does ping as suspicious is when he says I hedge my votes most of the time with "mights" and "maybes," etc. First of all, I debate politics frequently. There is nothing I hate more than a faulty assumption. The reason I am careful is because I don't like mislynching people. I would think you would value that, too. Scum would have reason to dislike a Townie being careful of mislynching other Townies. So that's scummy to me. Strangely, he wonders what I was doing with my older post that was meant to get reactions; it's been explained that that post was meant to get reactions and more reactions rippling forth to read.

I liked his questioning of Scarab so far, but it seems like that's all he's been doing; he hasn't even other mentioned players like Alina, Not_Mafia, or Boonskies. If I am incorrect please correct that. It sort of bugs me how some players seemingly mean to ask questions, but leave off the "?" for a period. It probably means nothing, but eh. Anyone else feel me on that? His continued fighting with Scarab reads null. I didn't like how he never mentioned his reasons for eyeing BP and SKOT. I'd still like to better understand his reason for Clusk. His reason for voting for Scarab doesn't seem all that great, because the whole Sal/manipulation thing is a matter of opinion, but I did townread him for how he noted that Scarab skittered away when pressure was applied, and how if Scarab was townreading Sal why try to undermine him? Though, Townies themselves can be manipulative, so I wonder what Mirhawk makes of that.

Would like to hear more of his opinions on other players; I think he's a bit Townish, but I feel like he's tunneling and not doing much with anyone else.

Mirhawk's Leaning Slightly Town at this point.

[Wake1]

Feedback on 808 would be appreciated everyone.

[Wake1]

@wake's wall post, I agree with most of what you said about Mir. As a few people said, you read Mirhawk as townish mostly, so there's not much to talk about. It's awesome that you spent that much time doing that though, and I'll definately refer back to it if I need to know something about Mirhawk

It's nice having my efforts recognized and appreciated for once.

*Prays to God you're not Scum.*

[Wake1]

VOTE: HunterSeeker

I want to see what happens.

Will be altering my posts a bit more. I include the information section as a solid reference, in case some players have "trouble" with the post. I suppose I could just place the info section in its own QT thread, and tap into it when needed.

[Wake1]

Hm.

Should have waited for a claim.

[Wake1]

I'm going to try to catch up with all these posts, sans the information section.

It's tough trying to keep everything in your short-term memory like that.

[Wake1]

Hm...

Let's check who was on Clusk's wagon, and how they taked with Cand and Farside.

Why were they targeted? Did they leave crumbs?

[Wake1]

Someone please explain NM's vote on HS in 961.

Juls, I think you can better explain why you feel my posts feel forced. I certainly don't get that feeling, so try making that make sense, please. I would hate to think Juls is Scum, considering she is saying things that make little sense from my perspective. Interesting. You're going to ignore me throughout this game, are you? While implying that my posts feel forced? So you don't currently Scumread me, yet you're trying to convince people that my posts feel forced, and you think you're going to ignore me. I would not advise that, because I deeply question your dubious motives.

@Everyone

, you think my posts feel forced? Anyone got experience with Scum-Juls? I don't recall playing with her in the past.

Not_Mafia, as said before, I did that initial post in order to get reactions, and reactions to those reactions. I even clarified that it wasn't a reaction test , but a post meant to get some reactions. How exactly am I going to know which reactions to expect before-hand? No, the point is to do something and see what happens as a result. Why are you trying to convince people of an alternate set of facts, fully knowing that I clarified what I did beforehand? Why not speculate over these three deaths? The whole point of deaths is to try and get information from them, while studying their ISOs. Don't be an impediment to our search for the truth, NM.

I don't buy Juls declaring that Adrien is for sure the lynch for today. And if she's wrong, what then? We string her up next? I didn't think so, so let's use our time wisely and not fuck it up. OK? If you want me to vote for Adrien, give us your reasons succinctly.

I can't see there being a 5-Scum team. If that's happened before, then we should assume that just to be safe. Since Cabd was an Even-Night Vig, chances are there's an Odd-Night Vig. One of the two was likely done in by a Vig, which I think is likely. He/she probably shot Cabd, or maybe Farside. I don't know.

HS's sheeping Juls hasn't escaped me, and he will have to explain his actions soon.

Guys, I need your help.

What do you make of Alina so far? Something in my gut makes me feel she's playing just a bit too carefully and subtly. Too smooth. I haven't sorted her out yet, but I'd like her to take more aggressive.risky stands in this game, instead of coasting. And no OMGUS, either.

I'm guessing we have an Odd-Night Vigilante. If we do, and it's multiball, why only two deaths? That tells me something went awry for one, perhaps?

HS, why you assume there's 5 Mafia? Is that unheard of? 16:5 sounds way too unbalanced, unless there's more Town PRs to balance it out.

And Not_Mafia and SKOT are sheeping Juls. Shit's gonna fly if it's a mislynch.

Why are we voting Adrien when we can be voting HS? Why exactly are the reasons for and Adrien vote better than an HS vote?

Interesting. Now Juls is moving to vote HS instead of Adrien C.... I wonder what those sheeping her will do...? I am watching what you do. Don't you dare think what you're doing will go unquestioned. No pressure.

I'm liking Aeronaut's 997. Maybe Juls deliberately switched from Adrien to HS in order to see what her sheep would do? Not sure what to make of that yet.

Hm...

So SKOT moves off the wagon in 1007, and Aeronaut calls him the Tracker in 1009. Did SKOT say he was the Tracker earlier, or is this news? If so, why the hell would Aeronaut out a PR?

I like 1013. Yet, is it fair to say Juls flip-flopped? If I'm going to vote for someone, I'm going to ask for damned good reasons, that are brief...

...unlike Aegor. Why the naked vote, Aegor?

[Wake1]

Right.

Why did SKOT claim?

[Wake1]

Why is he alive?

Farside likely protected him.

It could be multiball, but unless the Vig messed up and killed her, how did Scum know to target her?

[Wake1]

Were there any other claims besides SKOT Day 1?

[Wake1]

Scum can be Tracker.

Could Commuter be Scum?

Toomai may have added the role, but wouldn't that be too powerful?

Aeronaut, why is Alina extremely Town to you?

[Wake1]

Commuter

The Commuter is a role that "leaves Town" each Night, thus making them ineligible to be targeted by Night actions. By extension, they cannot use any Night actions they may have.

Because they cannot use Night actions, almost all Commuters are pro-Town.

It is worth noting that because in flavor it physically leaves the game for the Night instead of being protected somewhere in Town, Commuter is considered the ultimate in Untargetability, trumping even things like Strongman.

Variations

Most Commuters cannot Commute each Night. Instead, they generally have Odd-Night or Even-Night modifiers attached.
Alternatively, they may be X-Shot and need to choose if they want to Commute each Night.

Use and Power

Commuter blends all the strongest aspects of Bulletproof and Ascetic. It is futile to target them at all while they commute. However, the only roles that may be helpful if they targeted the Commuter are investigative, so in all other cases, Commuter is strong and difficult to use improperly.

Play Advice

Commuter is not an implausible scum fakeclaim, as it explains immunity to kills and (occasionally) blocked actions. If you are an X-Shot Commuter, keep this in mind.

[Wake1]

Aeronaut, you're online. Where are you?

[Wake1]

Fucking ipad just lost my long ass response to wake. The Tldr of it is you are talking to people like they are children and it is likely a style thing. I tend to town read your content but get hung up on the style in which you say it. Also, why did you not comment on HS's wifom? You just surface read that whole exchange and rehashed it instead of reading the reasons that are clearly and succinctly presented about HS.

And is it fair to say I flip-flopped? Only on HS. I still scum read Adrian. HS I was town-troll reading until he pulled that wifom shit.

Right.

If it's a style problem for you, it doesn't matter now does it? I'm only here to find Scum.

I don't care for the concept of "WIFOM." It's just a lazy way of saying "Hey, don't speculate!"

If it's so clear and succinct, Juls, then please post so in your next post. Since you say it's so, then post it in 4 sentences or less as to why. It should be easy for you, since you're spearheading this, no?

You were on Adrien, then you moved to HS after 3(?) other votes jumped onto Adrien. Assuming you're Town, what do you think of their sheeping you? And what makes HS heavier than Adrien when it comes to the lynch? I want you to spell it our in no uncertain details. Get it off your chest. It should be easy if you're Town.

[Wake1]

I think we should test the notion that Alina is "extremely Town."

Why is that? What has she done that puts her so high up there? Who shares this view, and

why

? The reason I ask is that Day 2 has only just begun, yet she's being read as "extremely Town." She should question why, and whether or not she's being buddied.

[Wake1]

Anyone else want to chime in on the Adrein/Commuter claim?

[Wake1]

They say posting frequency isn't indicative of alignment, so I guess I should wonder about Damon?

Toomai, would you please prod Damon_Gant. He's said nothing in 4 days.

[Wake1]

If you want me to respect your words and wisdom then don't be an ass hole in the way you address people. You can find scum without being so in people's face. Hint: most of us aren't scum so stop talking to us like we are all caught-scum.

HS is scum for saying the scum/town ratio ( so we will be put off by it when he gets lynched), for saying he 'would bus Adrian' if he were scum buddies with Adrian, while a voting for Adrian, and for saying he and I couldn't be scum buddies together which is setting up for you to lynch me when he flips scum.

Adrian is scum because he is fake as fuck. I will not repost every instance of it that I noted because you can hit that little 'ISO' by name to see them. And he constantly shifts with where the wind of suspicion is floating.

P-edit: read my catchup post. I have recently finished a game where scum claimed commuter so it is highly suspect to me on top of all the other reasons I am scum reading him.

Some treat me far worse, so as long as they can do so without being reprimanded, what do you think I should think?

I have no problem being in-your-face so long as I'm not personally attacking people.

Everyone is uncleared until proven otherwise, so don't whine about me being suspicious of everyone.

And if I thought someone was caught Scum, I'd be screaming for some lynches.

Interesting. You provide some reasons for HS, but seemingly refuse to do so with AdrienC. Why?

Was the game you finished a large one? How many players? Did HS imply that there were five Scum, or was he asking? If it's a slip, we could pursue that option at least until we get a claim.

@Wake88: Time spent during night does not count towards being prodded, as should be expected from any other game here.

His five posts don't sit well with me.

VOTE: Damon_Gant

[Wake1]

So he did say there were 5 mafia...

However, how new is he? He could be Newbscum... or not.

Instead of being directed so easily, let's discuss how Damon_Gant only has 5 posts.

[Wake1]

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

[Wake1]

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I don't have the patience to respond to everything else right now but you're just going to drive people to replace out with haughty posts like these. It is not the onus of everyone else to regurgitate things and do your work for you if you're not going to read the game.

That's not hardy. Stop feigning outrage.

I think you're arguing that everyone, when asked, can just say "oh, just read my ISO."

If that's what you're saying, then that works for everyone, so you can just go read my ISO instead of asking me anything about my posts.

Using your brain and your fingers isn't, Juls.

Look at his posts, and post in 4 sentences exactly why you find Adrien Scummy.

Is that too difficult?

I'm done with you. I did what you asked. You can fucking do what I said or not. I truly don't give a shit. If you want to vote me for doing exactly what you asked then good luck with getting me lynched.

I can't tell if your cop-out is Scum or Town driven.

It feels like a good act, though.

[Wake1]

Wake I literally have a very succinct ISO since I was catching up and not having conversations with people. I have my summary of the game in about 6-8 posts. You are just being an ass hole by not reading it and making it out like I am doing something wrong by pointing you to it.

If I have to regurgitate my posts to the people who don't/won't read them, why shouldn't you?

[Wake1]

So you regurgitate instead of saying from brain to screen what your latest reasons are. It's simple for me, yet you don't seem to be able to. You only regurgitate. If you're Town you should have nothing to hide, and have no reason to fight against "aggressive" inquiry. Lazy. Now you've given me an excuse to do the same when someone asks me for my latest, updated thoughts 200 posts from now. Laziness isn't indicative of alignment, but isn't flailing one?

BP's vote is crappy, devoid of reason. He wants me to cooperate with someone who isn't cleared, while not questioning it. Cooperate my ass. I'll not cooperate if I have questions, and I'll take extreme exception to an anti-Town vote like that.

[Wake1]

Juls, your bias aside, what do you think of BP's vote? Is it grounded in pro-Town reasoning? Or is it lacking good reason?

[Wake1]

No one's the leader of Town, and you're not the boss of me, so like hell should I feel compelled to shut up and start cooperating without asking questions.

BP's either Scum or a bad player who gets in the way of Scumhunting. Just an impediment with a bad attitude, it seems.

[Wake1]

The reason people are voting you is because you are being obtuse. Yeah, I am lazy. I am too lazy to do something I have already did. You ask me to explain my suspicions in 4 sentences, I did. I can't show you every instance in which I saw him as fake in 4 sentences. That is why you need to look at each individual one (in my ISO) where I explain why that particular post is fake or wrong.

P-edit: BP is one of my town reads. The vote is likely annoyance based. I get it. They will likely change their vote I would expect. But what you are doing is just fishing for non alignment based reactions. If I were scum, I would be just as annoyed at you. So basically what you are being is a distraction.

Keep it real: I only have one vote from a bad player.

I'm trying to see if you're honest Town or bullshitting Scum. Why it's simply too tough for you to put in four sentences why you find Adrien Scummy piques my interest. What you're basically telling me is that you'll no longer be asking me questions about my posts, because you think the proper excuse to inquiry is "look at my ISO." Oddly enough, you can ask me any question and I'll easily be able to put it in 4 sentences. Yet you can't, so either you're far too uptight, or you're nervous because you're Scum not willing to answer a simple question.

Scum would have every reason to try and discredit my poking and prodding, looking for answers. Juls, when you react negatively to simple curiosity, what do you think that means?

[Wake1]

BP's either Scum or a bad player who gets in the way of Scumhunting. Just an impediment with a bad attitude, it seems.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Wrong.

I have no problem being asked questions, nor do I tell them to check my ISO to avoid being asked questions directly, or tell others to cooperate by not asking questions.

If you're Town, then stop being a lazy lump and allow more than one train of inquiry in this game. And whatever you do, don't try to hide behind your ISO so you can escape direct inquiry!

[Wake1]

If you want me to respect your words and wisdom then don't be an ass hole in the way you address people. You can find scum without being so in people's face. Hint: most of us aren't scum so stop talking to us like we are all caught-scum.

HS is scum for saying the scum/town ratio ( so we will be put off by it when he gets lynched), for saying he 'would bus Adrian' if he were scum buddies with Adrian, while a voting for Adrian, and for saying he and I couldn't be scum buddies together which is setting up for you to lynch me when he flips scum.

Adrian is scum because he is fake as fuck. I will not repost every instance of it that I noted because you can hit that little 'ISO' by name to see them. And he constantly shifts with where the wind of suspicion is floating.

P-edit: read my catchup post. I have recently finished a game where scum claimed commuter so it is highly suspect to me on top of all the other reasons I am scum reading him.

Why are you unaccepting of the bolded?

See, here's another reaction from you that piques my interest.

Whoever said I was unaccepting of it?

I told you I wanted you to boil down your reasoning to 4 sentences. Never did I say I didn't accept it.

Now, how about you explain that discrepancy, why don't you?

[Wake1]

You are flat out misrepresenting me. I answered your question in 3 sentences. One or which is directing you to all the examples in my ISO. How exactly would you answer the question more succinctly? You are calling me lazy for doing what you asked.



P-edit: holy fuck you are dense. You are unaccepting of it because you have spent the past two fucking pages saying I didn't do it. So therefore I made the logical leap that you have not accepted what I said.

Interesting.

I ask you exactly what makes you feel Adrien is "fake as fuck." In four sentences. Don't point at your ISO as an excuse, etc. Just say why you feel he's fake as fuck. Why? If you can do it in less than 4 sentences, good. Just explain why. If you're Town you should have absolutely no problem with this. I don't recall ever saying your statement about Adrien was unacceptable: I want you to explain it in four or less posts. You dancing around and trying to convolute things while the Village Idiot BP lobs a worthless vote isn't helping my impression of either of you being Town.

Can you put in one post exactly why you find Adrien Scummy in four sentences or less? If not, the more you fight and struggle to not explain yourself, the more I'm going to go fullblown gladiator on you until I pry the truth from you or get mislynched. It's simple, so swallow your pride and do it already. You know better than anyone else not to hide or escape telling the truth.

[Wake1]

Reinoe, you're being foolish.

Different games, different context.

Not once did I

ever

say a naked vote was a bad thing.

Votes without any damned good reason, like saying "fucking cooperate already," is bull.

You know the difference, so why you being Scummy, Reinoe? You're completely misrepresenting me, and only Scum has reason to do that.

[Wake1]

Keep running and evading inquiry.

Town has no reason to refuse communication.

[Wake1]

And Aegor climbs higher on the Scum list. Feigned outrage, arrogant, refusing to answer questions, and generally anti-Town.

Juls isn't cleared, so he's either biased or bullshitting Scum. What have you even done this game, Aegor?

I don't see you stirring up the waters trying to get discussion going. Nor explainin g or responding to questions. Bad angry player it seems who doesn't like that a Townie like me is too curious for his own good.

You have

zero

good reason to vote for me, Aegor. Nor BP.

I'm disappointed that so many players are reacting badly to direct questioning. Shame on you for playing shitty, by actually trying to stifle inquiry, instead of promoting it and discussion.

[Wake1]

Don't get in the way of aggressive Scumhunting.

Don't hide behind your ISO as an excuse.

[Wake1]

Now you're just trolling angrily in response to my Scumhunting. You flipping Scum would not surprise me one bit.

You seem to think it's arrogant of me to questions people's motives. Last I checked that's what you do in Mafia.

[Wake1]

The point of being a good Townie is to ask questions and stimulate discussion. If that means pouring on the pressure, then that's what it's going to take. All you're doing is teaching me that it's acceptable to be lazy and hide behind my ISO, instead of directly responding to direct questions which would in turn give you better reads. You're also teaching me that it's ok to fight questions, and discredit questions as crap, as if being transparent and straightforward is a bad thing.

[Wake1]

[quote="In post 119, Wake88"]

*Reveals

Annihilator Beam

*

PeregrineV

———✹

I'm curious what your current read on me is.

———✹

Does the fact that Damon_Gant only has 5 posts concern you?

———✹

Assuming you're Town, how'd you get sucked in to mislynching Clusk?

———✹

You vote for HS in 874 for not trying, yet Damon's only got 5 posts. Explain that reasoning, please.

———✹

Who are your current top 3 Scumreads?

[Wake1]

*Alina, not Pergrine.

[Wake1]

The point of being a good Townie is to ask questions and stimulate discussion. If that means pouring on the pressure, then that's what it's going to take.

Part of being a good townie is discerning where pressure should be applied. If you think that applying more pressure to Juls is a good idea, then your judgment is just bad.

All you're doing is teaching me that it's acceptable to be lazy and hide behind my ISO, instead of directly responding to direct questions which would in turn give you better reads. You're also teaching me that it's ok to fight questions, and discredit questions as crap, as if being transparent and straightforward is a bad thing.

No one is hiding behind an ISO. It is your responsibility to read this thread. No one has to answer the same question twice or present the same argument twice. That is what you are asking others to do.

I decide who I pressure, and when. Juls is not so special she can't be pressured. I don't give a damn if people don't want me to question her. No one's above inquiry.

When you point to your ISO instead of answering questions, you're hiding behind your ISO. Here, let's give you an example. Aegor: Don't ask me any more questions. Just read my ISO, because it's all there.

See how fun that is? See if that aggravates you in your Scumhunting travels.

Imagine, for a second, if I did the same things you're championing. But I don't, because I have no problem answering questions or helping people out with remembering stuff, because obviously no one's going to remember everything in a massive game with 21 players.

[Wake1]

Do you guys have any other ideas you want to bring to the table?

We've got Adrien being called fake, HS saying there's 5 mafia, and Dam Gant only having 5 posts.

Anything else?

[Wake1]

You're out of line, Aegor.

Do not get in my way when it comes to Scumhunting.

[Wake1]

Giving Scumreads for 20 other players is impossible to do in four sentences, unlike explaining what makes one feel Adrien is Scummy.

Apples and oranges.

[Wake1]

SKOT: Claimed Commuter when there wasn't much... what was the reason, anyways, and was it good enough? Null.

Adrien: People say he sounds fake. Some can't explain why. I'm not sure about him yet. Too early. Null.

Reinoe: Typically gets personal from game to game. Doesn't mean he's Scum. Hasn't done much. Null.

Burning_Town: Where are you? Null.

Shaddowez: Pokes in not frequently. Hard to read him when he hasn't posted much. Null.

Damon_Gant: Only 5 posts. Seriously. Am I the only one who noticed this? Null!

Mirhawk: Hasn't said/done much to have me remember him. Keep forgetting he's here. Null.

Not_Mafia: Doesn't feel like he posts much, and I think he's opportunistic. Leaning Scum.

Aegor: Fights people who question others. Will vote stupidly. Leaning Scum.

Scarab: Who is Scarab? I don't remember him. Null!

Boonskies: Again, another non-contributing player. Forgot about him. Null!

BroodKingExe: Who? I forgot he was here. No presence. Post more. Null!

Juls: Could be Town, or crafty Scum that wilts under inquiry. I don't buy the act, or the excuses. You never ignore players when you're Town. Leaning Scum.

Aeronaut: Not sure about him. Doesn't seem to take a stance, and may be searching for a reason to mislynch. Null.

HunterSeeker: New player, said there were 5 mafia, could have slipped. Leaning Scum.

BP: Terrible player. Check his ISO. Either Scum, or Village Idiot. I don't like his attitude or OMGUS vote. Leaning Scum for the OMGUS.

Alina: I feel she is playing too smoothly. Maybe it's just my experience playing the game, but it just feels like she's speaking very safely. Leaning Scum.

Wake: Aggressive as hell and unafraid of asking direct questions. Town!

[Wake1]

So Wake what were the results of your reaction test and why would we wifom a pair of very standard n1 kills?

Wake, answer these please.

I told you it wasn't a reaction test. Now, taking a note from Aegor, how about you go look and read up on all the reactions in response to my post? Here, my 50 started it. Read the thread. Don't like it? Blame Aegor.

[Wake1]

Let's see what happens.

VOTE: HunterSeeker

[Wake1]

Aeronaut, do you discount the notion that there's possibly an Odd-Night Vigilante?

[Wake1]

Aeronaut, do you discount the notion that there's possibly an Odd-Night Vigilante?

Actually, yea I had forgotten about the odd/even thing. I sure hope there is still a smart vig out there, because this town needs it.

So you also mention a Serial Killer.

That in mind, do you or do you not subscribe to the notion of two Mafia teams in this game?

[Wake1]

So what do you want, reinoe?

[Wake1]

So we're looking at 4 Mafia, 1 SK, and Even/Odd-Night Vigilantes?

I recall Picking Simplicity having something similar.

[Wake1]

So we're looking at 4 Mafia, 1 SK, and Even/Odd-Night Vigilantes?

No. If that were the case, we would have had three NKs.

What is your hard-on for two vigs all about, exactly? Why would you even think there is a second Vig?

Usually when there's an "Even-Night" role, there's and "Odd-Night" role as well. I'm not saying there is, but I'm saying there

may

, which you seem to take issue with. You seem to neglect the possibility that our dead Odd-Night Doctor, Farside, may have blocked one NK attempt... or that a different role may have done so. Do you not think these things are at least possible? If not, why?

[Wake1]

Wake, what do you make of Damon? Just curious about this.

I've been reading his ISO (It's not long really) and It seems off to me. Very... self aware. He also seems to be buddying with you a bit. I dunno.

He's like my third nipple. There but barely noticeable.

So what's your aim here, Aeronaut? You trying to make me suspect you even more with your lackluster attempt to drive a lynch on Damon_Gant?

[Wake1]

I'll be back tomorrow.

Goodnight, folks.

[Wake1]

So now people seem to be migrating towards Damon_Gant. Not sure what DG's doing, but he needs to talk.

Toomai, do you know how soon he can be prodded?

If you have questions for me, ask me directly, and I'll try to answer them. I'll not hide behind my ISO as an excuse. However, keep my words in context if you're honestly looking for answers.

I'm Townreading Boonskies and AdrienC at the moment, and will be analyzing their ISOs soon, unless I get distracted enough.

Not_Mafia comes off as very shifty. He

does

keep hopping onto different bandwagons. Is that indicative of alignment?

[Wake1]

I'm not comfortable with Mirhawk's lack of presence so far. I will analyze him first.

[Wake1]

I'm not comfortable with Mirhawk's lack of presence so far. I will analyze him first.

Haven't you analyzed him already?

I don't remember. I'll check.

[Wake1]

Oh, wow, looks like I did in 808.

[Wake1]

Also, WAKE. I WANT YOU TO ANSWER TO MY POST 642. YOU WERE GOING TO PESTER ME. PLEASE DO. I WANNA KNOW WHAT YOUR THOUGHTS ARE ON MY RESPONSE TO YOU AND MAINLY WHY YOU HAVE STOPPED "PESTERING" ME.

Your 642 showcased the indignation a malevolent, gay rancor.

Nothing you said had any game-related value in response to my abrasive 632.

Anything else?

[Wake1]

If you are getting offended by me making a point to spell your name correctly then you're way too thin skinned to play this game and this is coming from someone with pretty thin skin.

Says the person so hot and bothered by my play-style that she's actively ignoring me for the rest of the game.

[Wake1]

*Starts turning dial on

Annihilator Beam

*

[Wake1]

Shaddowez

———✹

What's your

current

read on BP?

———✹

Pick 3 members right now. Which one would you lynch today?

———✹

What do you think of one player ignoring another player the remainder of the game?

———✹

Have you played in past games here? If so, links, please.

———✹

Should HunterSeeker be today's lynch?

———✹

Based on the last three deaths, what are your current theories?

[Wake1]

Why are we even voting DG? He did not even

check

his role PM, so there is no way to portray this as scum lurking (or town lurking, for that matter).

[Wake1]

Could Damon_Gant please be prodded or force-replaced? He hasn't posted in 6 days, 6 hours, and only has five posts.

[Wake1]

I'll be contributing tomorrow.

[Wake1]

Still going through issues in real-life, but I won't be replacing out.

Need to fix some things and get my work schedule finalized first.

[Wake1]

Unvote

With him gone, I am willing to give his replacement a clean slate.

That said, if he approached L-2, I will vote the slot to extract a claim.

[Wake1]

Unvote

With him gone, I am willing to give his replacement a clean slate.

That said, if he approached L-2, I will vote the slot to extract a claim.

Ew. Why? Either you are willing to put him at L-1 on the merits of the case or not. If you are, why not keep your vote? If not, why would you vote just to extract a claim? How is that helpful at all?

That is dumb at best and scummy at worst.



Maybe Wake should die tomorrow.

It's not dumb in the slightest.

Time is precious. I don't like the speed on this wagon, and would like to buy enough time for the slot to talk. If someone outs the slot at L-2 later in the Day, after talking has happened, I will put it at L-1 to extract a claim to gain information. I'm not convinced by the current reasons on his case, inspite of what some say. If his case is so strong, then convince me.

I invite you to try.

[Wake1]

@Wake

How do you intend on extracting a claim when he's being replaced and there's no replacement in sight? Didn't happen with Clusk, I doubt it'll happen here.

Because not all people are the same, and a replacement is bound to come. And if the replacement refuses to talk or claim at L-1, that's that player's choice to tempt death.

[Wake1]

I do find some of these responses interesting.

There's no rush, and lynching the slot, which may be a PR, in not advised.

If you wish to kil the slot, without a claim or a new player at the helm, you may do so without me.

I find posts 1683-1686 particularly fascinating, and I think they should be noted fore Late-Game.

[Wake1]

No. More than two weeks remain. Why do you want to kill this slot without having the player talk or roleclaim while at L-1? Bad Townplay there.

If you want to kill a slot without a player or a roleclaim, did it with someone else. If it's a mislynch, that's on you.

Should this be a mislynch, I will hunt those who crammed it through.

[Wake1]

If HS is "objectively" scummier than CLusk, how so? Because he said there were 5 "Mafs"? Is that it?

Don't even try to be sneaky, reinoe, with your later sentence. Day 1 is always difficult for Town, because we have no information to work with. Day 2 is different, and if your reasoning is faulty and you push through a potential mislynch in the worst way possible, that deserves repercussion. Do it the right way, or don't do it at all.

[Wake1]

Should this be a milynch, you can count on me being very vocal about this mishandling Day 3, provided I survive the Night.

[Wake1]

Considering you put me on ignore in a fit, forgive me for not subscribing to your words.

People would be wise to wait, Alina, but not all people are wise in that regard.

[Wake1]

With

18

alive it takes

10

to

lunch

.

Oh, so now we're

lunching

people, eh?

[Wake1]

Does anyone else have experience with Scum-Aegor?

Mini 1574: Mountainous Mafia with Daytalk

Here is the Scum QT including Aegor: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/qsuPJrPAFqi2

[Wake1]

~ I think we are still fine; continue to distance with me without seeming obvious and it will have the same effect.

~ TSO is the most dangerous player inherently, and he suspects me. He would be a solid choice, and you can bus me if things go south tomorrow.

~ Lead the crusade against me tomorrow if there is NK analysis, but I do not think we need to bus unnecessarily. One thing that decent players notice is soft defending in such situations, so either defend hard or bus hard (I recommend the latter).

Some insight into Scum-Aegor.

[Wake1]

Yeah, I agree with Aeronaut's 1729.

No one's going to tell me to look through their long ISO instead of asking basic fuckinging questions, and get away with it. I will not tolerate that crap.

VOTE: Aegor

[Wake1]

Isn't HS still at L-1?

Find someone else to push through your reckless lynch.

[Wake1]

Ah, so Reinoe

was

Scum.

So, who here doesn't think we're in multi-ball? I'm still of the mindset that there's an Odd-Night Town Vigilante out there, to complement the Even-Night Vig, and that two Scum factions murdered this Night. Who here will say that is unfeasible? I am curious.

Also, I am wondering why these targets were chosen. If there was a blue Mafia Role Cop, and it investigated Reinoe last Night, would it return a result of "vanilla"? I don't get why notscience was hit, and I'm curious about the how and why of Reinoe being killed.

[Wake1]

Do you suspect we're in multiball, Not_Mafia?

[Wake1]

Wasn't Aegor the one who pushed through the mislynch on HS?

[Wake1]

Yes. And why? We had two more weeks to utilize. You could have waited for a replacement, and let him/her talk. It's not as if you had only two days left, so people f***** up there.

[Wake1]

It is not difficult to get a replacement, especially if you ask people via PM. Same with filling up Large games by PM'ing invites/pre-ins.

With a new replacement, things could have happened differently within those two weeks, and that is fact.

[Wake1]

Alina, if you would, have you ever been Scum on this site?

[Wake1]

That would be appreciated.

[Wake1]

If AdrienC did breadcrumb being an Odd-Night Commuter, I don't see why Scum wouldn't have targeted him. A Doctor didn't protect him Night 2, and assuming there's an Odd-Night Vig in play, two Scum factions murdered last Night. Why did neither strike Adrien, but reinoe and NS?

[Wake1]

I think it's reasonable that there's an Odd-Night Vig, because an Even-Night Vig died. That in no way means there is, but probable. Regardless of one's stance on pro-Town kills, there may very well be an Odd-Night Vig, and I suspect we're looking at multiball.

Were there any other PR claims? The reason I ask is because, if there were, why didn't Scum target them? An Odd-Night Town Commuter would seem like a threat for Scum on those Nights. There may be an Even-Night Commuter, too. Whether both of them are Town, Scum, or a mix of either is a good question.

[Wake1]

I'll be back tomorrow to play; I've been pretty busy with work.

What I will say is this:

1) I think it's reasonable to suspect that there may be an Odd-Night Town Vigilante.
2) In a game this big, it's plausible that there is an Even and Odd version of a power role.
3) I would suspect the same if an Even-Night Cop died, that there may be an Odd-Night Cop as well. In fact I just modded a game with that Setup offsite.
4) And if that's true, then Night 1 is suspicious, because an Even-Night Vig died, and I reckon that an Odd-Night Vig was active during that Night.
5) And just theorizing a bit, Night 2 is really odd. There's no Even-Night Vig to kill someone during Night 2. So sans the Even and having the Odd out of commission until Night 3, why were there two kills? That leads me to think we're looking at multiball. It could just be my own faulty perspective on these things, but I think it's important to throw my thoughts out there while I still can.
6) Lastly, assuming two non-Vig entities killed reinoe and NS during Night 2 (I'm assuming we're looking at two Scum factions), how does that explain Night 1?
7) Could it be that the Even-Night Vig killed Cabd or Farside, a Scum faction killed the other, and then the remaining Scum faction was blocked... or couldn't perform the kill? That is what I simply wondering.

Now to those who "seem" to think it is strange for me to muse on these possibilities, at least someone is wondering about this part of the game.

I'm of the notion that Scum have to fabricate reasons to Scumread Townies.

So, BroodKingEXE Aeronaut and others, would you please elaborate further on what exactly you find so off and wrong about my musings? I get the sense that some here don't particularly like that I'm prodding about on the Even/Odd Night Vig issue. That I find interesting, in that suspecting there may be an Odd-Night Vig and multiball is quite reasonable, and wise to assume, in order for Town to be safer in this game.

As per the rules, Toomai deleted all the bold in this post because there was way too much of it (i.e. the whole list was bolded).

[Wake1]

Could the "#)" be bolded, please?

[Wake1]

I'll be back tomorrow to play; I've been pretty busy with work.

What I will say is this:

1)

I think it's reasonable to suspect that there may be an Odd-Night Town Vigilante.

2)

In a game this big, it's plausible that there is an Even and Odd version of a power role.

3)

I would suspect the same if an Even-Night Cop died, that there may be an Odd-Night Cop as well. In fact I just modded a game with that Setup offsite.

4)

And if that's true, then Night 1 is suspicious, because an Even-Night Vig died, and I reckon that an Odd-Night Vig was active during that Night.

5)

And just theorizing a bit, Night 2 is really odd. There's no Even-Night Vig to kill someone during Night 2. So sans the Even and having the Odd out of commission until Night 3, why were there two kills? That leads me to think we're looking at multiball. It could just be my own faulty perspective on these things, but I think it's important to throw my thoughts out there while I still can.

6)

Lastly, assuming two non-Vig entities killed reinoe and NS during Night 2 (I'm assuming we're looking at two Scum factions), how does that explain Night 1?

7)

Could it be that the Even-Night Vig killed Cabd or Farside, a Scum faction killed the other, and then the remaining Scum faction was blocked... or couldn't perform the kill? That is what I simply wondering.

Now to those who "seem" to think it is strange for me to muse on these possibilities, at least someone is wondering about this part of the game.

I'm of the notion that Scum have to fabricate reasons to Scumread Townies.

So, BroodKingEXE Aeronaut and others, would you please elaborate further on what exactly you find so off and wrong about my musings? I get the sense that some here don't particularly like that I'm prodding about on the Even/Odd Night Vig issue. That I find interesting, in that suspecting there may be an Odd-Night Vig and multiball is quite reasonable, and wise to assume, in order for Town to be safer in this game.[/quote]

[Wake1]

I'm online.

If you want me to answer all your questions to the best of my ability, please ask away.

[Wake1]

I think it's reasonable that there's an Odd-Night Vig, because an Even-Night Vig died. That in no way means there is, but probable. Regardless of one's stance on pro-Town kills, there may very well be an Odd-Night Vig, and I suspect we're looking at multiball.

Why do you refuse to read my posts?

@everyone:

At this point, does anyone else feel like Wake has something nefarious to gain by getting other people to believe there are two vigs? I really cannot understand his factually untenable and weird push for the two-vig theory, which has never made any sense. Now he has started ignoring posts that explain why his theory makes no sense

while continuing to peddle it upon on us

.

See, when I start sensing hyperbole, you climb up my list. Especially when you start trying to paint it something different from reality. My contention is that it's reasonable to suspect there's an Odd-Night Vigilante to complement the Even-Night Vigilante. I would do the same if an Even-Night Doctor died in a Large 21-player game. It's common sense to think that that

might

be in the game. That Aegor argues that it's "factually untenable" that makes no sense... tells me he has an ulterior reason to try and quash even the suggestion that there may be two Town Vigs. I do tend to ignore stupid posts, and annoying and noisy ones, too.

I

am a voice of reason, in that I don't viciously fight against the mere possibility of a certain Normal role being included in a Large Normal. I'm not saying I'm a PR, but if I didn't know better I'd say I feel like I'm being prodded by Scum to discern if I'm one. And for the record my theory makes perfect sense, because it's

entirely possible

that the role is at play. You seem to argue against just the possibility, so I want answers from you on

why

.

If there's something I hate as Town, it's players trying to keep me from inquiring into things.

That

will pique my interest in a hurry.

[Wake1]

I think it's reasonable that there's an Odd-Night Vig, because an Even-Night Vig died. That in no way means there is, but probable. Regardless of one's stance on pro-Town kills, there may very well be an Odd-Night Vig, and I suspect we're looking at multiball.

Why does even-night vig automagically imply an odd night vig? Do you honestly see a vig making either of those kills? If you think it's mutiball now then why were there not 3 kills N1?

Were there any other PR claims? The reason I ask is because, if there were, why didn't Scum target them?

SKOT claimed tracker D1 then it became even night tracker D2. He tracked me last night to nowhere

An Odd-Night Town Commuter would seem like a threat for Scum on those Nights.

Not when the alleged odd night commuter is lynchbait

Whether both of them are Town, Scum, or a mix of either is a good question.

How is this a useful discussion and how will it be anything but pure guesswork?

I didn't answer you because you were twisting my post.

I told you it's reasonable to think there's an Odd-Night Vig; I even said that "in no way means there is, but probable," yet you put words into my post by asking "why does Even-Night Vig automatically imply an Odd-Night Vig?" I say it's reasonable to think it's possible. You wonder why an ON-Vig automatically implies an EN-Vig. Either you're misunderstanding or misreading my post, or you're deliberately changing the context. Only Scum and bad Town have reason to not keep words in context. I want you to clarify this.

Your statement of "do you honestly see a Vig making either of those kills" sounds pretty damned lame. Just because YOU don't think a Vig would make them, doesn't mean a Vig didn't. Stop with the excuses, NM. I want to see you be honest and back-track with your ridiculous statements, otherwise you're going to climb up my Scum list. Your last question of "If you think it's mutiball now then why were there not 3 kills N1?" is the one that has me wondering, and I am very interested as to why I'm gaining some resistance by certain folks over this. If you think you're being subtle, you aren't, and I'm probably the worst person Scum could try to pull a fast one over during the Day. If you're Town, check yourself, and be honest, because I'd hate to see you eat your words later in the game.

If you don't think it's a useful discussion, I couldn't care less. You don't see me bitching when you bore people to tears with your own "educated" guesswork.

[Wake1]

*Reveals

Annihilator Beam

*

Not_Mafia

———✹

Why does it bother you that I'm wondering about the deaths and Setup?

———✹

Only once did I say we should assume there's an Odd-Night Vig and multiball at play, because it's wise. If there were more times, then please point them out.

———✹

Assuming there's an Odd-Night Vig, which is possible, I can't say for sure what was on his or her mind. That person may not share your same views on the game.

———✹

I'm trying to sort things out by sharing my thoughts on the Setup and the role possibilities. Because I want to understand what's at play in this game, you're damned right I'm going to wonder aloud. Who do you think you are trying to stop me? Back off and stop trying to stop people from questioning things. If you don't like me questioning things, then you're either being a stubborn obstacle, or you're Scum.

———✹

And don't you

dare

use hyperbole with me, N_M. You saying I "call everyone in sight bad town or VI or scum for refusing to engage you and answer your questioning" is a downright lie. You should speak for yourself, seeing that you ask some people questions, and then shoot them down when they actually share their ideas. You pester me for my thoughts, then try to find excuses or reasons to downplay my thoughts, while also using hyperbole or taking my posts out of context. Hey, why are you doing that, N-M? Why are you not being honest with my posts?

———✹

If you're Town, you'd better start keeping my posts in context. Each and every time you use hyperbole, or manipulate the context, or try and paint my post as something else, you give me a damned good platform to call you out on it. How do you like those apples, N_M?

Stop being dishonest with my posts.

[Wake1]

Alina

———✹

Why exactly am I so high on your Town list?

———✹

If there was a dead Even-Night Doctor in this game Night 1, is it reasonable to suspect an Odd-Night counterpart?

———✹

Do you reckon Aegor's current vote is sound? Why is he where he is on your list?

———✹

Why is Aeronaut, Juls, Aegor, and Boonskies lower than me on your list? If you would, please share your succinct reasoning there.

———✹

What are the best reasons for breaking Boonskie's neck today?

———✹

If there's one Scum among your best Townreads, who would you expect that person to be?

[Wake1]

I'm trying not to write you off as stupid, or call you names. You're making it difficult with your abject ridiculousness.

———✹

Why does it bother you that I'm wondering about the deaths and Setup?

Because it's pointless noise that doesn't achieve anything

———✹

Only once did I say we should assume there's an Odd-Night Vig and multiball at play, because it's wise. If there were more times, then please point them out.

Twice. But I'll concede this point.

———✹

Assuming there's an Odd-Night Vig, which is possible, I can't say for sure what was on his or her mind. That person may not share your same views on the game.

Please just answer my questions

———✹

I'm trying to sort things out by sharing my thoughts on the Setup and the role possibilities. Because I want to understand what's at play in this game, you're damned right I'm going to wonder aloud. Who do you think you are trying to stop me? Back off and stop trying to stop people from questioning things. If you don't like me questioning things, then you're either being a stubborn obstacle, or you're Scum.

Again, what does it achieve and how will you progress this beyond pure guesswork?

———✹

And don't you

dare

use hyperbole with me, N_M. You saying I "call everyone in sight bad town or VI or scum for refusing to engage you and answer your questioning" is a downright lie. You should speak for yourself, seeing that you ask some people questions, and then shoot them down when they actually share their ideas. You pester me for my thoughts, then try to find excuses or reasons to downplay my thoughts, while also using hyperbole or taking my posts out of context. Hey, why are you doing that, N-M? Why are you not being honest with my posts?

———✹

If you're Town, you'd better start keeping my posts in context. Each and every time you use hyperbole, or manipulate the context, or try and paint my post as something else, you give me a damned good platform to call you out on it. How do you like those apples, N_M?

Stop being dishonest with my posts.

This is a waste of mine and everyone else's time now, you're completely incorrigible and willfully blind to any criticism. I don't even know why I let myself get in to this in the first place

1) I don't care if you think it's noise. The game doesn't revolve around you and what you find acceptable.

2) You brought in the idea that I'm trying to "achieve" some goal. I'm simply trying to get a better understanding on the game, so if you don't like that I'm trying to understand it better myself, then that's too bad. You keep trying to put words into my posts while trying to find ways to twist them so you can achieve a mislynch. If you were honest you'd keep my posts in context, and stop acting like sharing one's thoughts is a bad thing. I mean, who do you think you are? Your problem is being a snob, in that you actually think you can determine whose thoughts and opinions are valid, and whose aren't.

Everything besides the latest flips is pure guesswork and speculation. Stop being so damned dense. I can't tell if you're actually sincere or if this is some bull-s*** act in order to aggravate me. Your act is getting really old, so instead of pissing yourself over someone's simple thoughts, how about you share your own and bring your own theories into the game? Stop being a snob, because if you're Town you're seriously shooting yourself in the foot with your garbage.

[Wake1]

I could go the Juls route, and simply ignore you for your behavior.

If you want me to put any effort into answering you, break up your posts, don't ask me to commit to the huge burden of proving things, or treat me in that condescending and insulting way. Otherwise we'll just have a violent flame war of epic proportions, and no one wants that.

Ball's in your court, Aegor.

[Wake1]

So why should I hammer him?

[Wake1]

This wagon too fast. I suspect it. I don't like it. Way too damned fast.

If this is yet another mislynch, then we need to start lynching those responsible for these mislynches.

[Wake1]

DON'T HAMMER YET. Please.

[Wake1]

Day 1:

Clusk92 (L-0): farside22, shaddowez, Cabd, Mirhawk, HunterSeeker,

Aeronaut

, Scarab, Boonskiies, Sharpest-knife-on-tree,

Aegor

,

Not_Mafia

Day 2:

HunterSeeker (L-0): Sharpest-knife-on-tree,

Aegor

, Scarab, Juls,

Not_Mafia

, TheAdrienC, Mirhawk, reinoe,

Aeronaut

, Boonskiies

Day 3:

Sharpest-knife-on-tree (L-1): TheAdrienC, Alina,

Aeronaut

,

Aegor

, shaddowez, Burning_TowN,

Not_Mafia

[Wake1]

"Oops," Juls?

[Wake1]

Yeah, I'm not impressed with this bullshit.

[Wake1]

If there's an Odd-Night Vig, I hope you take Juls out.

[Wake1]

Eh, then I don't know.

[Wake1]

Hm... Now that's odd.

Juls, why'd you do that? I don't know if Scum would deliberately do something so anti-Town, but it sure was dumb of you to do that.

[Wake1]

When I saw you trying to slow/stop the lynch I decided to reaction test to see reactions to the hammer.

Ah... I see. You meant to get reactions by rashly quicklynching someone two weeks too early... who didn't even get a chance to speak... for reactions?

That isn't good enough. You spurned me, and you're pissing off Town.

I'd rather we made you an example today. You are the one who fucked this up.

VOTE: Juls

Of course, you may just be anti-Town, and Aegor and others are the real Scum. We'll see.

I'd ask you all to not do anything stupid, but it would seem that hasn't been working as of late.

[Wake1]

Scum may very well be trying to capitalize on Jul's

stupidity

reaction test.

If she flips Town, I have no problem primarily suspecting Aeronaut and Aegor.

...

...should memory serve,

both

of them were

quite

happy on the last three mislynches.

[Wake1]

Also, I'd rather not have the good townsfolk forget my thoughts on the possibility of an Odd-Night Vigilante. Apparently if there is one, he or she didn't answer my prayers last night. What sort of cruel being does that? And let's not forget that there were two deaths Night 2, in spite of the Even-Night Vigilante dying the night before. If there is one, I don't quite understand these latest happenings. Oh well. Something to ponder later I guess.

Aeronaut, if Juls is mislynched, may I have your head tomorrow? I considered Aegor, but I don't think there's much there.

[Wake1]

So everyone is wearing their policy lynch hat today. Good to know. Well, of the 12 alive, there are probably 5 antitown members acleft across two scum teams so I am doubtful I could change anyones mind anyway. Sorry to town but this game is full of village idiots and I guess it rubbed off on me. So same question to you, Wake, if its possible to take a break from your theatrics....When you mislynch me, who is scum? And with so many town dead, why do you think now is the time to make an example?

Well little lady, seeing as we're in Day 4 with nothing but mislynches, your abject stupidity is in question. The reason I say this is because it takes a certain level of special from someone who is supposedly Town to do. If I give you the benefit of the doubt, I'm certain you can understand my reservations about you, Juls. See, you don't quite like being questioned by me, because it makes you uncomfortable. Let's not forget that you put me on ignore in a hissy fit, so let's think things through when we speak of theatrics. Don't blame me for having an issue with your actions.

If you're mislynched today, I would see Aegor and/or Aeronaut lynched. As you well know Scum needs to fabricate reasons to drive mislynches. These two guys have been on the last three, and they haven't been so clear on their reasoning, either.

Also, Juls, are you adequately certain there's no remaining Vigilante? You would certainly seem so. For the moment I'm inclined to believe there isn't an Odd-Night Vigilante remaining, and it would likely work for most peoples's sakes if that were the case. If there is one, however, people will likely die over their refusal of it. Oh well.

Currently I'm thinking there's at least one Scum among Juls, Aeronaut, and Aegor.

[Wake1]

LOL...I got called a "certain kind of special" by Wake.

My dear, please don't give me bullets.

[Wake1]

Juls deliberately lynched SKOT in spite of being asked to wait. That was absolutely idiotic gameplay, reckless, and anti-Town. And for some reason certain players are giving her a pass as she makes excuses for her bad gameplay. I'm starting to form connections between certain people on this issue and others. If Juls flips Scum I'll be coming for those who defended her actions and basically laughed it off.

I can't tell if Juls was just being stupid Townie, or clever Scum gambiting. I probably shouldn't, but because I don't want a repeat of Juls's mistake I'm going to UNVOTE: Juls to free up some time.

And why do the lurkers/inactives keep getting lynched? That's not giving Town enough information.

Spoiler:

There are two kills each night. THERE ARE TWO SCUM TEAMS OR SCUM AND A SERIAL KILLER. Stop trying to paint it any other way.

reason?

@Wake
Why do you keep bringing that stupid vigilante crap up. Seriously stop it. All you're achieving is muddying the issues that actually do bear discussing. Could there be a Vig? Yes. Is it likely? No. That's all there is to say on the subject. Unless you supply an actual reason why this is important for us to be discussing I'm just going to assume that you keep bringing it up because you're a serial killer.

...should memory serve,

both

of them were

quite

happy on the last three mislynches.

I am still quite happy about two of those three mislynches.

Also, I'd rather not have the good townsfolk forget my thoughts on the possibility of an Odd-Night Vigilante.

Shut the

fuck

up. You are so unbelievably dumb I am surprised you are even able to use a computer.

Your theory is moronic. I have already explained why. Other players have already explained why. Your persistent commitment to this theory that clearly has been fabricated by the most feeble and unstable of minds is incomprehensible.

Apparently if there is one, he or she didn't answer my prayers last night. What sort of cruel being does that? And let's not forget that there were two deaths Night 2, in spite of the Even-Night Vigilante dying the night before. If there is one, I don't quite understand these latest happenings. Oh well. Something to ponder later I guess.

Do not waste your two brain cells pondering it. If they have not helped you yet, they will not in the future.

Well little lady, seeing as we're in Day 4 with nothing but mislynches, your abject stupidity is in question.

From the person who thinks there is another Vig?

Oh, btw, your Vig theory is the most retarded one yet - even the one that I'm scum has more traction to it than that. You're scum too, Wake.

I'm going to hold on to this information, because I still have reservations about there being an Odd-Night Town Vigilante. It's fine if that bothers you. If there is, then the discrepancy on Night 2 will undoubtedly merit discussion. It wouldn't be wise to forget it, probably.

I actually completely see where wake's coming from, and it makes the most sense to me. I'm all mid jumbled after Alina town now anyways.

Would you elaborate further on this, Boonskies?

...meh, I'm trying to get a better read on why players are doing what they're doing today. What BP's doing, what Mirhawk's doing, what Aegor's doing... and why.

If Juls flips Scum, I'm inclined to suspect TWIE for his defense of her in 2195. Conversely, if she's Town, I'll suspect him somewhat less.

Night 2 oddity notwithstanding, I do wonder if a Scum team would bus one of their own this early. Aeronaut and mirhawk's skirmish around 2137 and 2140 (and the posts of their involving it), has me a bit interested. Mirhawk does mention he has no intention of being useful in regards to a quick lynch today. If that's the case, I suggest people take notice if he flip-flops on that.

I'm not buying the slick and stinky excuses given for Aeronaut's, Aegor's, and Not_Mafia's last three mislynches. They kept messing up, and not being wise or patient. NM was a Townie, though... I wonder how possible it is that all three of you mislynchers are Townies.

Is it fair to say that AdrienC's posts have lately become... shorter?

Boon distancing himself from the Alina kill...

...do you reckon he killed Alina? Boonskiies, please weigh in on this asap.

Are you saying Boon is where you think we should go next day phase, Brood?

At the moment I am currently townreading Boonskiies.

I am wondering how, after Aegor's been on the last three mislynches—and was currently on the current wagon—what made him hop off. Aegor, is it fair to say you lynched the last three players because they were lurkers? Juls was momentarily (or not) stupid in her actions, but not a lurker. You and Aeronaut got on her wagon, yet you then move to BP. Are you voting BP because he is lurking, too? I am trying to discern whether you're being consistent, and would appreciate your feedback on that. Also, Aegor, how are you reading Aeronaut and TWIE currently?

[Wake1]

Oh look, a shit wagon is forming because Aegor said there's a 0% chance BP isn't Scum. With confident statements like that, who needs reasoning? Anyone else notice the sheeping?

[Wake1]

Or maybe Aegor's soft-claimed Cop and has a Guilty on BP?

That's the only thing that makes sense. If not, if BP flips Town then that's enough, and we lynch the lying motherfucker.

[Wake1]

Or maybe Aegor's soft-claimed Cop and has a Guilty on BP?

That's the only thing that makes sense. If not, if BP flips Town then that's enough, and we lynch the lying motherfucker.

If he did, why THE FUCK would you bring it up. GOD I HATE THIS GAME!

Because he's telling us to lynch someone without providing any reasons at all.

What, you're not going to question that? Why?

[Wake1]

And if he did supposedly have a guilty on BP and is softclaiming Cop, why would he vote you first and then flip-flop, Juls?

[Wake1]

Because Aegor likely IS crumbing cop. He's done everything but said it but you did a fantastic job of doing that for him.

Anyone with eyes and a brain would notice his supposed crumbs.

That explains your latest posts.

[Wake1]

If he's crumbing Cop, and is the Cop, why wouldn't he simply push for BP at the start of Day 2, instead of contributing to a wagon that almost got you lynched?

[Wake1]

But if he's softclaiming Cop, and is implying BP is gulty, then if BP flips Town Aegor's goose is cooked the next Day.

OR, this is an elaborate bussing gambit.

Wanna clear things up, Aegor?

[Wake1]

NO!!!

[Wake1]

If Aegor's not the real Cop, then the real one needs to stay quiet! It's a big game, and we need the Cop to stay alive as long as possible.

[Wake1]

There could ALSO be two Cops.

One even, one Odd. Same with Doctors. Same with Tracker. Probably the same with Vigs.

[Wake1]

Cabd was the Town Even-Night Vigilante, Farside22 the Town Odd-Night Doctor, and Sharpest-knife-on-tree was the Town Even-Night Tracker.

Sorry, but now I really suspect Aegor and Juls. If BP flips Town, Aegor needs to die for sure. If he's Scum, sans an elaborate bussing attempt I would trust him a little more.I don't like how Juls' mentioned that the "Cop" should come out and take out Aegor one-for-one. She said "Cop," not Even or Odd Night Cop, too.

[Wake1]

But there have not been TWO of anything.

True, but there may be. It's not unreasonable in a game this size.

[Wake1]

Juls, shouldn't the Cop(s) stay hidden for now?

It's only Day 3 in a 21-player game.

[Wake1]

VOTE: BP

If you're lying, Aegor...

[Wake1]

Just like he implied his other result.

What is this?

[Wake1]

Wake, you are hilariously terrible. You are, no joke, the absolute worst player I have ever seen in the context of setups with PRs. Your setup spec, your fishing expeditions, your false interpretations of "softclaims," your contradictory statements, your potential outing of PRs are all truly unbelievable. Scum could not ask for a better ally.

You should reevaluate how you play any setup with PRs and, until then, play only in Moutainous setups.

Anyone with an iota of discernment would pick up on your "crumbs." In fact, they were incredibly obvious.

"DOOOOO IIIIIIIITTTTTTT." Yeah. Subtle.

Funny that you're upping your tone against me, considering you just might be needing that momentum to lynch me Day 4... since you're likely Scum bussing a partner. I'm possibly very wrong about there being an Odd-Night Vigilante, but I have no problem keeping the mere possibilities in my head.

I see this stinking post of yours as yet another desperate attempt to discredit me. No... I am now suspecting that you are Scum as well. This Aegor seems so far off from the Aegor I've observed in the past. It's almost as if you're trying to muster up bile to put into your posts, judging by what you've been saying. If a Town Odd-Night Vigilante were to turn up in this game, I highly doubt that you'll keep your head intact. In fact, you will die if that happens.

Your movements betray your veneer of innocence. Bussing your partner won't save you in this game, Aegor. I see exactly what you are doing.

[Wake1]

If BP's town, Aegor dies.

Aegor hasn't one damned good reason for saying BP is 0% Town, unless he's implying he's got a guilty on him.

Absolutely no one living is mod-confirmed Town.

[Wake1]

TWIEs is fanning things, and telling people to basically shut up and vote.

[Wake1]

I guess there IS a more aggressive player than Wake.

I'm in a good mood right now.

Try to keep it that way.

[Wake1]

Aegor, you said there's 0% chance BP's Town.

You're also demanding people to vote him.

And you now say you're not the Cop.

Sum it up what your EXACT reasoning IS.

[Wake1]

Best not to taunt the players deciding your fate, BP.

[Wake1]

Also Juls is pretty obviously town; anyone voting her at this point is clearly scumclaiming.

TWIE is now the towniest player in the game. That is good, because I was extremely ambivalent about Scarab.

Yeah, that's not gonna work, Scumfuck.

You were the one bullshitting with your obvious crumbs about BP needing to be lynched, yet when I point out how Goddamned obvious it was you turn around and say I'm trying to out PRs. Like what the fuck, are you serious?

If you flip Scum, Juls will become very suspect, which wouldn't surprise me if you're also white-knighting.

And why exactly is TWIE to you the towniest player here in your opinion?

[Wake1]

My vote is already on BP, Aegor.

Are you trying to make me insult you?

[Wake1]

I am

telling

you that there is no chance whatsoever that he is town.

Why.

[Wake1]

You're dead if BP flips Town, Aegor.

[Wake1]

Hey wake do us a favor and kill scum tonight.

I'm not a Vigilante, Mirhawk.

[Wake1]

Yes I know.

So what are you implying?

[Wake1]

I'm not Scum.

Secondly, it's BS to say that I outed a PR.

Aegor was being extremely obvious, even saying "doooooo iiiiiiiiiittttttt" and "trust me guys, he's 0% Town." How is that not extremely obvious? No, if he really is the Cop then he should have been subtle, and not outed himself with "crumbs" that weren't actually crumbs, but incredibly obvious Scum-bluffing. It would not surprise me if he was bussing a partner.

[Wake1]

Spoiler:

There are two kills each night. THERE ARE TWO SCUM TEAMS OR SCUM AND A SERIAL KILLER. Stop trying to paint it any other way.

reason?

@Wake
Why do you keep bringing that stupid vigilante crap up. Seriously stop it. All you're achieving is muddying the issues that actually do bear discussing. Could there be a Vig? Yes. Is it likely? No. That's all there is to say on the subject. Unless you supply an actual reason why this is important for us to be discussing I'm just going to assume that you keep bringing it up because you're a serial killer.

...should memory serve,

both

of them were

quite

happy on the last three mislynches.

I am still quite happy about two of those three mislynches.

Also, I'd rather not have the good townsfolk forget my thoughts on the possibility of an Odd-Night Vigilante.

Shut the

fuck

up. You are so unbelievably dumb I am surprised you are even able to use a computer.

Your theory is moronic. I have already explained why. Other players have already explained why. Your persistent commitment to this theory that clearly has been fabricated by the most feeble and unstable of minds is incomprehensible.

Apparently if there is one, he or she didn't answer my prayers last night. What sort of cruel being does that? And let's not forget that there were two deaths Night 2, in spite of the Even-Night Vigilante dying the night before. If there is one, I don't quite understand these latest happenings. Oh well. Something to ponder later I guess.

Do not waste your two brain cells pondering it. If they have not helped you yet, they will not in the future.

Well little lady, seeing as we're in Day 4 with nothing but mislynches, your abject stupidity is in question.

From the person who thinks there is another Vig?

Oh, btw, your Vig theory is the most retarded one yet - even the one that I'm scum has more traction to it than that. You're scum too, Wake.

[Wake1]

Juls, read his posts. It was more than obvious what he was doing. He's making himself look like he was crumbing Cop, and now he's bussing his partner. You don't crumb by dropping loaves of bread. You make it

subtle

. That's the whole point of crumbing.

[Wake1]

Dat crossfire! At least the mafia itself should be crippled by now. Wake, since you're the one who has been analyzing set-up, how many scums of either faction do you think are left?

1 SK, 1 Mafia. That's what I'm most familiar with. If it were 5 Mafia that wouldn't explain the two NKs, unless there is indeed a living NORMALTown Vig that has been killing the last couple Nights. That Boonskies suggests there's 5 Mafia is a problem coming from where I'm standing, atm.

And I'm really fucking surprised Aegor was Town. Who the HELL drops obscenely obvious hints and calls them crumbs?

If memory serves, Normals don't have flavor in their Role PMs. (I may be wrong). Fibonacci likely has meaning, and if Toomai could clear that up that'd be great, because I've never encountered that modifier before.

[Wake1]

Also, they (the flipped scum) all voted/pushed Wake a lot. I am not sure if it was a bus or wake is an easy target.

Neither.

@Wake:

If you were so sure Aegor was scum, why would you blindly vote with him?

If you read my posts, you would have known that I intended to lynch him the next Day if BP were innocent. Furthermore, I also posited that he may very well be Scum gambitting in a bus attempt. That you ask this in spite of my latest posts is questionable to say the least.

[Wake1]

Speaking of which, I was JUST about to post that I wasn't voting Aeronaut currently, because I don't particularly trust other players to restrain themselves and use the time we're given wisely.

[Wake1]

. Wake is being weird and contradictory, and he insists there's still a Vig.

He really wants us to think there's not a SK.

Damn it, Aeronaut. You just HAD to lie about me.

VOTE: Aeronaut

I have been saying all along that we're in multiball, and that there may also be an Odd-Night Vig. Because I suspect there's an ON-Vig, I explicitly question not just the deaths on Day 2, but those on Day 4 now.

[Wake1]

Lynch all liars.

[Wake1]

Do it, Adrien, please.

[Wake1]

Cabd and Alina were mine.

[Wake1]

Well, that's interesting.

Basically, I am the Odd-Night Vigilante.

The first two I targeted were Cabd and Alina. My third target for Night 5 was AdrienC, and had PM'd Toomai the target. Apparently the kill failed. The remaining Scum killed Mirhawk. There is one left, because 3 Mafia are dead and I pegged the SK. I was probably roleblocked or jailed, which would mean the remaining Scum probably has a PR. We should assume that to be on the safe side. That, or the only other option is that another Townie blocked my kill attempt.

Why else would I reveal at the end of Day 5 like that? I was very surprised I wasn't killed Night 4, and am sure Scum left me alive because they think I'm a bad Town player. If you all think I am the remaining Scum in spite of the past events, there's probably little I can do to persuade you to lynch someone else. What I do hope for is for you all to read through my posts once I'm dead, and thoroughly question the kill discrepancies, and see for yourself the crumbs I kept leaving about how we were in multiball.

[Wake1]

And some players were very incorrect in the past, which is why I continued pushing the issue about the ON-Vig.

[Wake1]

If memory served, I had told someone here that they'd eat their words for saying how dumb my "theory" was.

OK, I'll stop enjoying the newfound revelation that there is indeed an Odd-Night Vigilante.

[Wake1]

I would have Vig'd Juls Night 3 or 5, based on certain behavioral patterns.

For now, VOTE: Juls. If it gets to L-2 too quickly, I'll unvote temporarily.

[Wake1]

What we should be asking is why there were only two kills during Nights 1, 3, and one on 5.

I killed Cabd and Alina, and attempted to kill Adrien.

On Nights 1 and 3, both Scum parties were alive. Meaning, two possible kills from them, PLUS my kill. Why did that not happen? I did not see any restraints on the SK or the Mafia on whether or not they'd be able to kill each Night.

I suspect someone blocked a kill Night 1. It is possible that a Town PR, like Doctor or Jailkeeper, stopped one of the possible kills on those two Nights. IF Mafia have a Roleblocker, the SK may have been prevented that way. If Scum have a Roleblocker, they can't also have a Role Cop. As a lesser possibility, one of the Scum factions may have decided to not NK on those Nights, but I find that extremely unlikely. Pardon the WIFOM, but this is serious.

The only instance in which I'd care for another Town PR to claim is if they had worthwhile investigation results to share, or could share any sort of tidbit that would deal a blow to Scum today.

[Wake1]

How many scummers do we think are left? Could Wake be the last one?

Subtle insinuation, but not subtle enough, my friend.

How many scummers do we think are left? Could Wake be the last one?

1probably, 2 at most.

I doubt there'd be 5 Mafia and 1 SK in a 21-player game. Does anyone know if that's ever happened before? Just seems like overkill.

[Wake1]

I would have Vig'd Juls Night 3 or 5, based on certain behavioral patterns.

For now, VOTE: Juls. If it gets to L-2 too quickly, I'll unvote temporarily.

Certain behavioral patterns. Great case. Well done. I will get right on my defense.

Respectfully:

1) You did attempt to put me on ignore for the remainder of the game which, for Scum, would be rather convenient.
2) Begged me to just go ahead and vote for Aeronaut. AdrienC did the same.
3) Called my Vig theory something along the lines of absolute crap. And was mean about it, including others.
4) You said this: "We have scum and a serial killer, two kills each night. There is no vig!" You are incorrect.
5) Insinuated I was the Serial Killer. Aeronaut then flips SK.
6) "Explain this NOW! I have waited all night to ask what the fuck you meant?" felt oddly insincere, considering what I've been hinting at for awhile now.

Just a few things troubling my perception of your innocence.

[Wake1]

A Town PR must have stopped my kill attempt, because I selected Adrien. The remaining Scum killed Mirhawk.

[Wake1]

Which means.... we really need to be reviewing everything Mirhawk's said.

[Wake1]

The game wasn't over. He wouldn't slip like that.

If I were Scum, I wouldn't deliberately do this. I would as Town since I strongly felt I was going to die last Night.

[Wake1]

UNVOTE: Juls

I don't like the silence of certain living players.

[Wake1]

I said that.

Thanks, Toomai.

[Wake1]

...

...I doubt B_T's been questioned enough.

[Wake1]

I think we can safely say there is only one Mafia left. 15:5:1 would be nuts.

Also, since I'm not an evil genius, you can all consider me confirmed Town.

*Is daring people to disagree.

[Wake1]

You forgot Adrien, Boonskittles.

I'm willing to consider you Town because of Aegor's huge crumbs. Last night I was literally walking through the woods and a bear tripped over one of them and fell into a pit of carnivorous prawns. He's probably right about Booney.

[Wake1]

Large Normals may only have two unique, non-normal roles in them.

Fibonacci-Night Cop and Odd-Night Commuter makes two. If anyone else here is a unique role, we can end the game quickly, because someone would be lying.

[Wake1]

A Town PR must have stopped my kill attempt, because I selected Adrien. The remaining Scum killed Mirhawk.

Why do you say a "town Pr"?

VOTE: Juls

I said that because I targeted Adrien for the Night Kill.

Because only one other Scum faction lives, and Mirhawk died, that means that remaining Scum killed Mirhawk.

What I forgot is that Adrien said he's a Commuter, which means my attempt on his life failed.

...



Which means, from my viewpoint, Adrien is confirmed Town. I'm certain there aren't two Mafia left.

Hm...

[Wake1]

If there's an Odd-Night Vig, I hope you take Juls out.

Why didn't you?

Isn't it obvious? I didn't want to die yet.

Everyone, Adrien and I are Town. If one of us dies, the other is confirmed Town.

As for your

deliberate attempt

idiocy on SKOT, I had self-control in not killing you. However, I'm beginning to think I should have stuck with you as my kill for that Night.