New York 180 (Endgame)

T S O · Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:54 am

Nice work, dragonspawn, completely missed that.

T S O · Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:59 am

I didn't read it at all, or if I did, I don't remember it whatsoever.

T S O · Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:22 pm

Oh yeah, I hated Marquis' play there too. I should go take a look.

T S O · Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:30 pm

gm, thoughts on Marquis?

T S O · Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:14 pm

Today is an extremely busy day for me - I cannot guarantee I'll get to you guys, but I'll try.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:02 pm

I support Marquis dying, guess I'm scum too?

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:03 pm

In post 4441, Shinobi wrote:
In post 4435, T S O wrote:Oh yeah, I hated Marquis' play there too. I should go take a look.

Gonna follow up on this?

Of course, baby.

In post 4454, Cheetory6 wrote:
TSO wrote:Actually, one of my current tinfoil-hat theories which is beginning to gnaw at me is that one of the conduits to Nobody Special's death was scum realising - and Cheetory had a moment where I refused to discuss it and that could have tipped him off.
I'm not really sure why I would be more suspicious than the other people who probably didn't notice the claim and just didn't say anything. I get why I'm being singled out here, but it's shitty that someone else probably had this realization and I'm taking the fall for it. -.-

When I say tinfoil-hat theory, I mean it's what I think of when I get paranoid. I think NS could have been low-priority as a target due to inactivity etc. - but there -are- scumkills missing, which maybe he blocked, and they got sick of it. I think this is more likely than my theory about you.

In post 4454, Cheetory6 wrote:
TSO wrote:Fully support a Marquis wagon at this juncture, will probably push it sooner or later.
Can you walk through why exactly? Or point me in the direction of a post you've made which reflects your current feelings on him?

To summarise my thoughts:

Marquis' stance on me, and stances in general, are fluctuating bullshit. His read on FA_Q2 also kept going back and forth yesterday. His justification of this is "Well, you can't expect me to have static reads when I've only just replaced in." This is true. However, his reads on me are not simply "not static." They are ever-changing. There's never any reasoning for them, ever. It's true that this could be from town-Marquis. I told him he had one day yesterday. His stance on me today, summarised, is "he's null-scum because he's been pushing easy targets like faq, who I also pushed on and off yesterday." That was the final straw for me. I cannot reconcile how he could post this, when the thought process required to do so would be something like this:

"I wanted FA dead for being scummy yesterday, and I was wrong! And TSO was the same, so I'm gonna give him a scumread."

I just cannot see town Marquis doing that. Maybe if he was able to detail why his read on me and FA, in particular, went "town-scum-town-scum-tum-scown-town-scum", but I doubt he remembers those. I have no idea why he felt his thought process needed to be opaque this game - opaque thought processes are a bad idea 99% of the time. And he's not usually into super-opaqueness, at least now as town, from what I've seen of him.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:04 pm

I haven't posted that straight away because it kept gnawing at me that I wasn't quite getting across the message I wanted to in the last paragraph, but I'm not going to get it any better tonight.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:16 pm

In post 4482, Aeronaut wrote:TSO, how do you feel about dragonspawn this fine summer evening?

He feels extremely like mislynch bait.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:17 pm

Like he is so fucking tasty. You know scum want to gobble that shit up. Not on my watch, bitches.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:20 pm

Extremely apathetic - even if I wanted to lynch her I'd never even get halfway there. I'm not reading her, she's not really affecting the game for me - it's not a null read, it's a don't-give-a-single-fuck read.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:26 pm

I'm saying dragonspawn is an easy mislynch, but I also said he was tasty. Tasty in my lexicon means easy to lynch, not just to scum.

Scumreading dragonspawn is easy to do as either alignment and I'm wary of doing it and of people doing it.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:27 pm

If you want me to scumread you, feel free to ask. I might be feeling generous.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:33 pm

In post 4492, Aeronaut wrote:@TSO So you think outing two neighbors for no other apparent reason than to get out of answering questions is town motivated?

Of course not.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:33 pm

In post 4491, Marquis wrote:UNVOTE:

I've been in a "fuck my reads" mood since the FA_Q2 flip, and up until now I've tried not to care about people scumreading me but now it's "fuck my reads and fuck this game".

I don't know what's up. This game seems to have a heavy split between significantly experienced players and not very experienced at all, and how the flips have gone this game signify to me that the scum is hiding in the experienced pool.

Shinobi right now I'm still not liking at all, but I'm willing to admit that my approach to that was flawed so any response he has to me would naturally incense me in return. I just... I really have no idea anymore. I feel like I'm sabotaging my own reads at the very least. Ignoring again for now.

Then it comes to the main thing I'm used to TSO-scum doing, which is pushing back on people when they start scumreading him and pushing for their lynch, and that's a part of what I see him doing here. Not to mention that post above about my meta sounds like bullshit because he knows when I'm actually scum I'm comfortable as fuck, and when I'm town that's when I have no idea what's going on and I just feel weak and unsure of everything. And I also feel like his sudden attack on me, after mostly letting my insecurity regarding FA_Q2 slide yesterday, is part of him taking advantage of how uncomfortable and unsure I am here, not only about my reads but about how I'm starting to feel about how I'm perceived.

VOTE: TSO

As of this post the only reads I'm sure of are townreads on Silverwolf and goodmorning. I don't even know what I saw as town in dragonspawn earlier but right now that's back to null because I'm afraid I've gotten into the habit of townreading scum for doing stupid things lately.

I'll be back later, I need to take a breath.

Fucking saw this coming from a mile away. Appeal to knowing my scum game all you want, Marquis, it's not going to help you here.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:34 pm

Seriously, bring your A-game, because I'm not going to back down. You're getting hung and your red flip is going to be justified.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:36 pm

But, back on point: what scum motivation does dragonspawn have to out the neighbourhoods?

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:37 pm

It's a dumb move, and I get why SilverWolf is feeling aggrieved over it - but dragonspawn is no town bastion. You can't just rigorously hold him to standards of others and expect him to meet them or be scum.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:41 pm

I'm sorry, Shinobi, we're not having another day where we hem and we haw and Marquis is "indecisive", tells us he's paranoid of me, and we lynch dragonspawn in a deadline panic.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:41 pm

I supported an Aeronaut lynch there for a while but I actually kinda liked his little attack on me there a few posts back.

Anyway, I'd still prefer Marquis.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:46 pm

In post 4506, Marquis wrote:
In post 4500, T S O wrote:I'm sorry, Shinobi, we're not having another day where we hem and we haw and Marquis is "indecisive", tells us he's paranoid of me, and we lynch dragonspawn in a deadline panic.

that was not a fucking deadline panic

there was a week left and everyone was just sick of everything

and you even liked my fa_q2 case, brought up points to back it up, and advocated his lynch for the whole rest of the day

You're right - however, what I described was exactly how this day would have panned out if not for my intervention. You would have done nothing useful except fake paranoia.

You're also right on FA_Q2 - I did like that wagon. By the way, you never explained to me how us both supporting the wagon made me nullscum and you town. I'd love to hear it. Except I don't think I ever will, because you've flat out refused to explain any of your read progresses this game. <---

This is a huge fucking scumtell, I don't know why people don't see that.

In post 4504, Marquis wrote:i don't care what you have to say about me knowing or not knowing your scum game, because i already know i'm not 100% on that

So why did you say it, then?

In post 4504, Marquis wrote:the real issue i have is you having multiple experiences with both my town and scum games, and then somehow having the audacity to say my towngame isn't opaque and by definition open and easy to see- and that's a totally bullshit misrepresentation.

See, this is why you're scum. Let me lay out what was said:

TSO: Marquis's game here has been completely and utterly opaque - his towngame is not usually like this.
Marquis: Hey, he's saying my towngame isn't opaque! THAT MUST MEAN HE'S SAYING IT'S COMPLETELY OPEN! SCUM!

It's these random fucking moments of bullshit you keep pulling.

In post 4506, Marquis wrote:i don't even care how it looks that i'm arguing my town game sucks, but you should know this and know how easy it was for me to act natural and get you to townread me when i was scum.

You knew that, after beating me in Rick Santorum, if you came in here and tried the same shit I'd probably nail your ass to the wall. So you tried to vary your scumgame. Maybe insert a little paranoia. I know what you were thinking.

In post 4506, Marquis wrote:so right now, especially after letting me slide yesterday then only coming at me now when i've started to express a stronger scumread on you, i want you dead.

Ahahaha this is bullshit and lies. I'm taking a separate post to address this because it's such a blatant falsehood.

In post 4506, Marquis wrote:it looks like i'm going to flip first.

Damn fucking straight it does - big bright red letters in the OP.

T S O · Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:47 pm

Wait, hold up, I'm not voting Marquis? I was sure I was.

VOTE: Marquis

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:11 am

In post 4560, Aeronaut wrote:I'm not a big fan of TSO's push on Marquis today. I'm also wondering about his over-agressiveness this day phase.

And yet you're clearly a fan of Marquis's push on me.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:24 am

In post 4504, Marquis wrote:so right now, especially after letting me slide yesterday then only coming at me now when i've started to express a stronger scumread on you

Okay, so this is a straight up-lie.

Spoiler: Yesterday

So, yesterday, you can see Marquis openly supported my wagon and I did not do what Marquis's apparently saying I always do by attack people who attack me as scum. Point disproven.

Spoiler: Today

I think it's again obvious as fuck he's making up his reads out of thin air to fit whatever agenda he wants to push. It was scum-Shinobi, now it's scum-TSO.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:25 am

Like, can someone who disagrees with me/agree with Marquis, other than him, explain why we're not razing him into the ground? Because I genuinely don't get it.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:29 am

Like, scum-Marquis is not a bad player. He's a pretty convincing guy. Here's a game where he got me fucking mislynched just like he's trying to do here. Here's another game where his hydra Doublade was literally townread by everyone, including me, as scum, before getting shot n1. Read those games. Especially the latter one. Then come back to me and tell me you don't think Marquis can play scum.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:29 am

*getting shot n3 or something, it was me who got shot n1.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:33 am

What does should lynch mean? Because I want to know why I'm there.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:47 am

Do you actually have any reason for that, or is it all paranoia ...?

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:48 am

Again, I have no idea how I've ended up in your scumpool - I can't understand how you went from basically null to scum on me. Maybe I'm just part of an old and outdated guard who believe in explaining their reads.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:02 am

stop acting fucking coy gm it's not cute

explain now

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:05 am

I'm waiting for people to clock in so I can talk to them. Come on, you lot.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:24 am

In post 4574, Shinobi wrote:I don't really think the quotes you've pulled are particularly damning.

Other than the fact that Marquis is fixated on you, I don't see the issue. It seems like what he's saying is legitimate, despite being wrong.

My scumread on Marquis is based on me calling his read on me a load of shit. Do you agree or disagree with that?

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:40 am

In post 4593, Shinobi wrote:What exactly am I agreeing/disagreeing with here? I don't really understand what you're asking.

Why do you think I'm calling Marquis scum? I didn't understand your response a bit back, and I don't think you understand me either - I'm trying to find the point where our views diverge.

T S O · Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:41 am

gm, even if you hate this game, don't you at least have enough fucking respect for people like me to play it?

T S O · Thu Mar 26, 2015 5:40 am

In post 4599, SilverWolf wrote:GM is town, I'm pretty sure of it.

GM is borderline not playing this game at all - I feel twitchy and uncomfortable about that. Make her do things.

T S O · Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:44 am

No, she is not "having trouble articulating her reads" - she is sticking the middle finger up to us and refusing to do so. There is a difference, you know.

T S O · Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:45 am

I feel like I'm Thor here expecting a certain standard of play and being disappointed at the inevitable failure to deliver.

T S O · Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:26 am

SilverWolf, can you summarise anything said you feel is alignment-relevant in your Neighbourhood to here? Ooba, if you think she misses anything, feel free to add it in.

T S O · Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:26 am

I never thought I'd say it, but come back elusive, all is forgiven.

T S O · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:07 pm

And get promptly shot tonight.

T S O · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:08 pm

I agree it's probable Mafia have a protective role, but I don't think we should be set-up speccing at this stage.

T S O · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:09 pm

What I need to get interested in this game again is a good old-fashioned square-up with Marquis.

T S O · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:17 pm

No read explanations, then?

Of course not.

T S O · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:18 pm

You'd all better be careful - if you don't call me scum Marquis's gonna call

you

scum.

T S O · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:35 pm

I love the phraseology of that post - "criticizing the quality of my read justification", as opposed to "you literally never explain anything ever", sounds significantly better. Excellent work, Marquis.

Still gonna have to hang you, you know.

T S O · Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:41 pm

I think Marquis's townread on gm reads as kinda off and I'm probably going to be looking there for his partner after him because I think he's trying to psych me out by hard townreading his scumbuddy.

I thought for a while that Marquis, if he was doing this, would put more effort into making the read seem genuine/interactions etc., but then again he can't justify his goodmorning read and not justify the others, so it doesn't worry me like it kinda did for a while.

T S O · Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:46 pm

In post 4643, dragonspawn wrote:I'm a little confused tso. Weren't you the one trying to persuade me that I was off on scum reading gm? Now you'll be looking into her after marquis if he flips scum?

When exactly did this happen? The last time I remember thinking abut goodmorning I was calling her null.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:56 am

In post 4487, T S O wrote:Extremely apathetic - even if I wanted to lynch her I'd never even get halfway there. I'm not reading her, she's not really affecting the game for me - it's not a null read, it's a don't-give-a-single-fuck read.

In post 4607, T S O wrote:
In post 4599, SilverWolf wrote:GM is town, I'm pretty sure of it.

GM is borderline not playing this game at all - I feel twitchy and uncomfortable about that. Make her do things.

In post 4609, T S O wrote:No, she is not "having trouble articulating her reads" - she is sticking the middle finger up to us and refusing to do so. There is a difference, you know.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:17 am

In post 4478, T S O wrote:I think NS could have been low-priority as a target due to inactivity etc. - but there -are- scumkills missing, which maybe he blocked, and they got sick of it. I think this is more likely than my theory about you.

Also, goodmorning knew that Nobody Special is in general inactive and not very helpful at all as town to the scumhunting effort. I could definitely see her prioritise shooting players over PR's, only for NS to block them.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:17 am

Who knows? Maybe NS was on me and I got shot.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:18 am

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:39 am

In post 4653, SilverWolf wrote:Because she played a lot like this in my only game with her when she was town.

And you're ignoring Shinobi saying she also played exactly like this as scum because ...?

Your major flaw as a town player is that you don't re-evaluate your reads when you need to. Scum are going to punish you time and time again for it unless you address it. Try doing it now.

I am not asking you to scumread goodmorning because I say so. I am asking you to throw out any assumptions you have made about her, read her ISO and what I've said about her, and make your conclusion. There is no problem if you return to the same conclusion as before. However, I highly doubt you will.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4618, SilverWolf wrote:Aero-I still don't understand how you switched your vote when you were so set on dragon. It just doesn't make a lot of sense. At least give me a case on TSO. Is he aggressive as scum?

Dragon is still likely scum in my opinion. However, TSO's strange defense of Dragon needed attention, and honestly the more TSO posts the stranger it's starting to seem. He was this sure about FA yesterday, and was wrong. Today, he's still completely sure of himself about Marquis. You taking the time to re-evaulate your reads today got me thinking; Don't you think somebody that pushed so hard for something yesterday and was dead wrong would be rethinking and retooling his reads today? Or at least second guessing himself just a little bit? That's not what he's doing. He barely mentions yesterday's events and just moves on with a "Ok, Marquis is 100% scum" crusade. That should be bothering people more than it is.

TSO hardpushes a townlynch d1, fakes insecurity d2, gets townread for it, wins the game.

Me being this confident is a sign of my fucking towngame, Aero. Not my scumgame. Read Masquerade. Read Faith Plus One. The difference between my scumgame and my towngame, which I don't think I've ever divulged to anyone, is posturing. As scum, I posture like fuck to make people townread for me. As town, I don't do that because I have zero interest in deceiving people. The difference between Marquis and I today is that I am pushing him as 100% scum and doing it confidently, while he is pushing me as 100% scum, but yet faking apathy. You should be reading us the other way around, given that one of us is faking our emotions and one of us is calling it exactly as we fucking see it.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:And yes, he's extremely aggressive as scum, and pretty nonchalant as town. I don't always trust meta reads when it's that polar opposite, but with the way he's trying to moot that fact quite a bit makes me want to bring that aspect more into play.

I can completely break this statement in half if you want me to - suffice it to say my games are significantly more fluid than this, and I'd argue aggression, real aggression like I'm displaying right now, is emblematic of my towngame.

Focus on this game and don't try to second-guess my alignment based on previous meta - it has never worked for anyone with me.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4595, T S O wrote:
In post 4593, Shinobi wrote:What exactly am I agreeing/disagreeing with here? I don't really understand what you're asking.

Why do you think I'm calling Marquis scum? I didn't understand your response a bit back, and I don't think you understand me either - I'm trying to find the point where our views diverge.

... Are you not calling him scum?

Yes, Aero, I'm pretty blatantly doing that. This was an invite to SilverWolf to talk with me. She didn't seem to accept it.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4599, SilverWolf wrote:GM is town, I'm pretty sure of it. Feel the same way about Ozgin.

I agree with this pretty much. I don't see a world where GM is scum this game, really.

Go back this up - this is going to be my response time and again to anyone who is townreading people based on them faking apathy. Marquis and goodmorning are doing it like champs right now and the only one not being duped by it seems to be me, and maybe Shinobi.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4606, Cheetory6 wrote:

Aero wrote:Alright. I don't agree with oz, but Cheetory I see your reasoning behind. Kinda been wondering about him myself.
Why?

Because that whole sequence with TSO during last day phase is really off to me, and that's really bugging me.

What exactly about it was off? He called me scum, I conclusively laid out why his reasoning made no sense, he re-assessed his reads like a good town player. That's why he's town.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4642, T S O wrote:I think Marquis's townread on gm reads as kinda off and I'm probably going to be looking there for his partner after him because I think he's trying to psych me out by hard townreading his scumbuddy.

I thought for a while that Marquis, if he was doing this, would put more effort into making the read seem genuine/interactions etc., but then again he can't justify his goodmorning read and not justify the others, so it doesn't worry me like it kinda did for a while.

Why would he be so obvious about town reading his scum buddy?

I said in the

exact same post

you quoted that he was attempting to play mind games with me by doing it. In fact, it was the paragraph directly underneath what you just quoted.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:From what I alone have seen of Goodmorning's opinions and play in this game, I feel as if they are pretty genuine. Take that as you will. I won't be lynching her.

TSO wrote:Go back it up.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:I'm finding it really hard to believe that you went from this

In post 4352, T S O wrote:My theory is: the reason Nobody Special was kept alive until now was because scum didn't know about him. Once they figured it out, they shot him. It would not have been difficult to figure it out -
but this does make me feel better about goodmorning-town, given she knew for multiple days.

to this

In post 4645, T S O wrote:
In post 4643, dragonspawn wrote:I'm a little confused tso. Weren't you the one trying to persuade me that I was off on scum reading gm? Now you'll be looking into her after marquis if he flips scum?

When exactly did this happen? The last time I remember thinking abut goodmorning I was calling her null.

Please explain to me what changed in between these posts to make you go from "I feel pretty good about Goodmorning town" to suddenly "GM is null, because she's being apathetic".

I answered this question before when dragonspawn asked me it - I am not in the business of repeating myself when there's scum I want dead.

In post 4654, Aeronaut wrote:So, that's why I'm thinking a TSO lynch is better than dragon today. By lynching TSO today, we get more information than if we lynch Dragon. In my mind, if TSO flips scum, Cheetory will flip scum right along with him. And then Shinobi, while that theory may be a bit more tinfoil-hat, will be someone to look into tomorrow as well. As TSO said, we really only need one scum lynch, and it will blow this game wide open. I think TSO is that lynch for us today.

Blah blah blah, dressing up a mislynch as an information lynch on day fucking 5 won't get you anywhere, Aeronaut.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:40 am

I think Aeronaut's probably town for how he is coming at me, but it's no use receiving a green role PM if all you do is aid the reds.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:20 am

In post 4655, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4417, T S O wrote:
In post 4368, Aeronaut wrote:@TSO, as someone who knows your scumgame, that's not an accurate representation of yours.

It has been.

What do you mean by "it has been". It has been before? Or what?

I said I have played like this as scum before:

In post 4364, T S O wrote: He reminds me of me when I play scum sometimes, just chugging along and posting enough to get by, not attracting attention.

You said that's not how you've seen me play. I replied that I have used that playstyle effectively before. Aggression as scum isn't always effective. In fact, it's usually not that effective, given that site meta right now is to scumread it.

In post 4655, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4273, T S O wrote:
Sorry, it's not my fault I'm getting scum lynched today.

Actually, it really is, but let's not discuss that right now.

Can you discuss this with us now?

I don't know what you want to discuss - it's basically a joke?

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:49 am

Well, you would, because without it you have basically nothing left to push.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:02 pm

Yeah, that's why goodmorning and Marquis remain fantastic lynches.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:11 pm

You don't have an argument, other than "hes playing to his scum meta gotcha", and "hes scum for thinking faq2 was scum just like I did". You're correct, you are going to get drowned out, because you don't really have anything relevant to say and I think people are finally beginning to see that.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:43 pm

I'm afraid you won't actually be able to get it, little man - I have something which makes me 100% town, and you don't, though I'd really rather not reveal it unless I have to.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:03 pm

In post 4673, Marquis wrote:First is an added bonus, second is a misrep- pretty sure I've already said it's not that you thought FA_Q2 was scum, it's how you acted toward the lynch so aggressively without second-guessing once there was support for it in the form of my case. Judging from the 100 or so posts prior to that in your ISO, I see no mention of a scumread or any thoughts on FA_Q2, and a general lack of anything other than talking about ABR/Math, brushing off people scumreading you, and I think there was a post about you offering to lynch easy low content targets gm or Aero (I also noticed you gave gm "townpoints" for something I don't get before that so I'm a bit curious as to how and why things have changed there)

yawn, I've explained my goodmorning read, and the rest of this is just stating random facts: "talked about ABR/Math", guilty there, "brushed off people scumreading me", guilty there too. I love how you characterise me thinking about lynching gm/Aero as "going after easy low content targets", when it was actually me getting paranoid of the two of them being so low-key. As it happened, I was 50% right.

Framing me for play doesn't work if there's nothing wrong with my play.

In post 4673, Marquis wrote:All of your posts are also just attacking me for "not having an argument" and repeating things along the lines of "you're going to flip and you're going to flip red!!!" and at this stage I'd expect some sort of...
something
, really, that approaches the situation with a clear mindset that you're town. Like "I'm town and you're wrong" is simple enough but I don't remember seeing anything major like that that asserts your own alignment as least a small part of your responses. It's all defense through offense, which is to be expected from scum, or at the very least someone like you.

So, I'm attacking you, and apparently scum do this, and apparently "someone like me" also does it... so I'm scum for attacking you, even though I'd have done it just because I'm me?

I have approached the situation like I'm town. It's called trying to get you lynched.

You have approached the situation in the exact same way, except a few comments about how this game means nothing to you/you don't care/apathy comment #3, so why am only I scum for doing so?

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:04 pm

Then there's the fact your attack on me is a giant OMGUS, and you've attempted to sidestep by... saying my attack is a giant OMGUS. Right.

T S O · Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:13 pm

In post 4673, Marquis wrote:The main, core thing is a gut+meta read that you absolutely would not have attacked me like this if you were town. You know the caliber of my town game versus my scum game, and this feels almost exactly like the same way you shut me down and lynched me when my main scumread was you in N's game (as Cho). But of course the rest of town here who mostly don't know me and I suspect are newish or like to do things "by the book" won't really take that as reasoning. Which is fair enough.

You know what amuses me so much about this game and your case? I genuinely think it funny that your case on me is "you would not be attacking me like this if you were town because you'd give my towngame a chance." You want to know why?

Because I did give you a chance. I specifically said yesterday I was giving you a day to get your shit in order. You know what had happened before that? You'd attacked me for literally no reason. Did I do what apparently scum always do? No. Did I attack you? No. Even though you scumread me for no reason at all, I didn't immediately attack you. I calmly told you to go off and justify it. When you realised you couldn't, you simply jumped back onto FA. It also doesn't go unnoticed, Marquis, that as you jumped back onto the largest wagon pressure had been coming onto you from people like dragonspawn.

So, to summarise:

Yesterday, you scumread me for no reason.
I didn't get aggressive, I told you to tell me why.
You never did and jumped onto FA.
I told you I was giving you one day.
You came into the thread today with your reads exactly the same.
That was when I realised you were lazy as shit scum, and started pushing you.
As soon as I did this, you dropped your Shinobi scumread and started pushing me as 100% scum.
Your main reasoning? "Oh you're scum for attacking me."
The only problem is, I took the other path in this game and I saw where it led me.
I have every justification for attacking you.
So you better find a new reason to call me scum, because to anyone who's read this post, that one's not going to wash anymore.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:50 am

No, Kitz. But discussing it is irrelevant right now - I really, really do not want to have to reveal this if I don't have to.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:57 am

The reason I think that it's possible that NS absorbed my kill is that there are missing scum kills, and I see no way for them to disappear unless NS blocked them. Furthermore, he most definitely knows the calibre of my town game - a few months ago, as town, I caught his scumpartner in his first post d1. I strongmanned the lynch through, before we went on to lynch NS the same day and win in 15 pages.(It was a Double Dip mechanic.) I don't see who NS would protect here over me, to be arrogant.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:07 am

Actually, what I said is only 99% sure - dead scum quickhammered reinoe d1. It was d2 when we finished NS off. A triviality, but it was worth pointing out.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:11 am

I am genuinely stunned on how you can possibly see

anything

sketchy in what I have said on this last page. I am not sure I could be more open and clear, unless it was to the clear detriment of town.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:21 am

In post 4689, Marquis wrote:everyone choose now. me or tso. please.

I endorse this statement completely - it really is time to choose.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:27 am

I've said all I have to say - explained why night actions somewhat exonerate me, explained how Marquis's scumread on me is founded on half-truths and lies, explained why I believe Marquis is scum and shown my meta isn't as static as Marquis is trying to claim it is. I feel, looking at what I've posted on Marquis, it is decisively convincing enough to show that he's scum going for the jugular mislynch.

I cannot explain how convinced I am Marquis is scum. I know it, I know I have him on the ropes. All I need is for you to vote him. Just put your paranoia of me aside, stop letting people paint me as the greatest scumplayer who ever lynched, and take this game on the merits of this game. If you do that, you'll see Marquis is scum. Please.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:51 am

In post 4706, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4690, T S O wrote:I'm afraid you won't actually be able to get it, little man - I have something which makes me 100% town, and you don't, though I'd really rather not reveal it unless I have to.

I don't believe you.

Yes, I know you want to try to force my hand into revealing it and feed scum the information - I have no intentions of doing it.

In post 4706, goodmorning wrote:
In post 4698, T S O wrote:The reason I think that it's possible that NS absorbed my kill is that there are missing scum kills, and I see no way for them to disappear unless NS blocked them. Furthermore, he most definitely knows the calibre of my town game - a few months ago, as town, I caught his scumpartner in his first post d1. I strongmanned the lynch through, before we went on to lynch NS the same day and win in 15 pages.(It was a Double Dip mechanic.) I don't see who NS would protect here over me, to be arrogant.

I clicked through and saw that it was just Hopkirk? Come on, man, he's often lynchbait-y anyway. Try catching AP in one post, then you'll have a story.

None of these things matter - the fact remains I nailed Hopkirk d1, and NS saw this. NS was not in that game you linked and didn't see your play.

In post 4706, goodmorning wrote:Anyway, NS is familiar enough with my play that he knows I'm occasionally underestimated. Like the time I got Scum-him lynched as a 3p and went on to win.

Well, yeah, but it should also be said that everyone appeared to have you pegged as scum that game. zMuffin was screaming it, DeathNote was also saying it. And this was in 5p LyLo. You still won, which is what matters, but I don't feel it would install the level of fear in NS required to protect you over me.

Even though I know you're scum and so I shouldn't care about it, I still feel kinda bad about being so brashly arrogant. It's just I'd prefer to seem arrogant and get scum lynched rather than be coy and modest and let you manipulate people because of it.

In post 4706, goodmorning wrote:It's not like Town-you is the only person Scum would try to kill (unless I was Scum, see my last post). See the various claimed PRs etc.

The night I am specifically talking about is n3. MathBlade was not the scumkill.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:12 am

Stop your fucking set-up spec. Even if you think you know it, speculating on it has no benefit to anyone if you are town.

If you're scum, keep on speculating.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:12 am

And vote Marquis.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:35 am

In post 4726, Shinobi wrote:Btw, is TSO is actually a role then scum has to have some crazy stuff to make up for it.

All we've seen flip thus far is that weird roleblocker permutation.

We haven't seen anything flip.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:39 am

My point remains, Kitz. We have seen one scum member flip. With all the information roles we have, you can bet Scum have a Watcher/Tracker/Cop. You can also bet they have at least one other powerful PR. And they've had 4 nights to gather information.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:39 am

Marquis, this is

your fucking fault.

I want you dead.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:48 am

Kitz, vote Marquis.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:42 am

In post 4738, Shinobi wrote:
In post 4731, T S O wrote:
In post 4726, Shinobi wrote:Btw, is TSO is actually a role then scum has to have some crazy stuff to make up for it.

All we've seen flip thus far is that weird roleblocker permutation.

We haven't seen anything flip.

Yes we have?

lol wtf

I often wonder, when people misinterpret me, is it because I'm being genuinely unclear, or my Irish vernacular is uncommon on this forum?

Yes, Shinobi, I know we have seen Non-Consecutive Roleblocker flip. I'm saying we haven't seen any real scum power flip yet, or as I put it "We haven't seen anything flip." Perhaps the word yet was needed.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:43 am

In post 4739, Kitz wrote:
In post 4736, T S O wrote:Kitz, vote Marquis.

Hmm, my condition for that vote is that you post a reads-list of everyone currently alive chronologically.

VOTE: Marquis

Normally, I am against doing this - but I am extremely likely to die tonight, and my reads are not particularly veiled anymore.

Chronologically means in order of time - I don't get what you mean by a chronological readslist.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:20 am

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:30 am

In post 4754, Aeronaut wrote:@Shinobi What's your read of TSO?
@TSO What's your read of Shinobi?

Town, because of the stances he's taking on goodmorning, who is an utter scumfuck today.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:47 am

In post 4764, Aeronaut wrote:Yea, but why even bother pushing for you and creating extra conversation if you're not even the one we're to supposed to be choosing today?

Because she'll shoot me tonight if I get Marquis lynched, so I need to make it pretty fucking blatantly clear she's scum.

There's something about the scenario which just makes me want to say it in thread. Just in case.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:49 am

Right back at you, sweetheart.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:52 am

If I have nothing particularly interesting to do with my nightkill, eg. PR's, then yeah I kinda am.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:54 am

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:58 am

I haven't been paying much attention to that. I'm scumreading her for her read on me; it's wrong, but it's not logical-slash-paranoid town, like Cheetory and Aeronaut. It just feels like she thinks I'm a viable mislynch and would really like to pull it off.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:03 am

oh my fucking god aero

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:04 am

You literally are not reading a fucking thing I'm posting because I made like 5 FUCKING REFERENCES AFTER I MADE THE CLAIM

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:07 am

This is why we're losing so badly; because of this shitty closed-mind attitude! "Oh, I think he's scum, LET'S NOT READ HIS FUCKING POSTS"

Really, Aero? Really?

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:11 am

*screams in complete and utter despair*

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:12 am

Wait a minute, I think someone deleted one of my posts or something, I can't see it either.

Fuck.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:12 am

I don't even have the power to delete my own posts, it wasn't me.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:15 am

I don't get it - either this is a scum power, or someone physically deleted the post.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:15 am

I claimed Vig, Aero, and I also said I refuse to claim the variant.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:16 am

My claim, Kitz. It's gone.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:30 am

I can't find them, SW, so can you quote them?

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:32 am

In post 4807, Aeronaut wrote:Do you have any crumbs?

I have one or two, but I can't discuss them. I know how sickening that is, but in the interest of WIFOM regarding my Vig variant, it's worth it.

Feel free to look.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:33 am

In post 4815, Kitz wrote:I asked T S O.

Kitz, sweetie, I love you, but it's d5 and I'm playing hardball right now. That list was conditional - in your words - on you voting Marquis. That's not happening right now.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:34 am

No, but I thought I actually claimed, SilverWolf. As in, I didn't make the claim based on insinuation - I outright said it in one post.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:37 am

I am almost sure that I have a reason for this, but for some reason, #4823 is making me think I don't.

Let me think.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:39 am

They wouldn't have, that would be shit design.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:40 am

One sec - I find it hard to believe I didn't have a reason for secrecy.

If I can't think of it, I'll fullclaim, but I'm almost sure there's one.

Goddamn, brain, do your fucking job.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:40 am

In post 4828, Marquis wrote:bulletproof vig

or bulletproof sk

hmmm

Bulletproof nothing? I'm not claiming bulletproof.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:43 am

Okay, I don't know why I thought keeping my role veiled was so important. Thor did it in Masquerade, for people who have read that, and it worked well, so I think I was going for the same thing here and didn't fully think it through?

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:43 am

In post 4833, Marquis wrote:
In post 4801, T S O wrote:I don't get it - either this is a scum power, or someone physically deleted the post.

fucking lol

is this the part where the rest of us jump on and start speculating obviously non-normal roles to take advantage of the newbies' repeatedly mentioned paranoia of them?

pedit you claimed scum tried to shoot you night 3 or something didn't you?

tso is sk imo. pisskop kill if it's his does feel a bit set up through the iso

please fucking lynch this thing now

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:43 am

I claimed the Doctor was on me, I never claimed Bulletproof.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:44 am

Non-Consecutive Vigilante. pisskop n1, MathBlade n3.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:44 am

In post 4837, Marquis wrote:
In post 4832, Aeronaut wrote:what crumbs you left. If any.

i've found in my experience lately scum is just as likely to crumb fakeclaims early as town is to crumb realclaims

not to mention the quintessential serial killer fakeclaim is vig, and is often decided upon from the start

discredit discredit discredit

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:45 am

Shinobi please stop going after Kitz and fucking vote Marquis before he manipulates the Newbies into thinking I'm the SK or whatever his bullshit scenario is

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:46 am

What the fuck are you even saying? I

don't

fucking know I was protected - goodmorning and I had an entire discussion about this. I'm assuming it due to missing kills.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:48 am

In post 3766, T S O wrote:Actually, the point about the vig is completely relevant - our vig had "presumably" shot scum on night 1, which shows they are a competent player and shouldn't have to be limited to doing the policy work of the town.

The MathBlade kill was also optimal last night, because ABR did not retract his claim - thus, the vig has yet to really slip up, reinforcing my point.

In post 3420, T S O wrote:if MathBlade is Vengeful then why did ABR track her to Ellie? How has Math concluded that ABR has gone from 100% scum to town?

In post 3459, T S O wrote:Can we all just talk about MathBlade's what-the-fuck stance for a bit?

In post 3461, T S O wrote:
In post 3450, Cheetory6 wrote:TSO you said you were townreading ABR a while ago.
Why are you voting him over Math if you think I'm right? :/.

Because either he dies from vig or lynch and the vig could do better than shooting him.

In post 3468, T S O wrote:
In post 3462, MathBlade wrote:
In post 3458, T S O wrote:So, let's get this straight: ABR got a result last night, which wasn't you, as town, and has decided to lie yet again... ?

Yep However when I explain it plainly and you do but attack what is clear it is frustrating.

ABR even said so.

The vig could do better and shoot you as ABR is town.

The vig is never going to shoot me - it's likely the vig is going to shoot you. If I were the vig, I'd already have the action sent.

Crumbs. Last one especially relevant.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:50 am

In post 4847, Shinobi wrote:
In post 4842, T S O wrote:Shinobi please stop going after Kitz and fucking vote Marquis before he manipulates the Newbies into thinking I'm the SK or whatever his bullshit scenario is

I don't get sucked into "him v me" scenarios, sorry.

I'll comment on it when it matters.

I'm claiming the last living town PR, the only player who's got scum to date, Marquis is attempting to discredit it

because he knows he dies today if he can't do so

. I feel this calls for a comment.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:51 am

Apparently not. I have no idea why viking got this. I did not.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:53 am

But that's easily verifiable - if NS's target received a message, then players would have got that message, as I strongly doubt NS was on me -every- night. So, it's highly, highly doubtful that all of NS's targets received messages, as the only one who's ever got one was vikingfan on n1.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:54 am

Oh, and if Marquis and goodmorning come forward with messages - they are liars, and will do anything to take me out tonight.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:00 am

In post 4854, Aeronaut wrote:What about Pisskop made him scream scum to you?

I'll be honest, I did not have pisskop "pegged" as scum. At all, really. However, this post read to me as extremely fake. It reeked. Also, I had seen pisskop fake incredulity once before as scum, here, and remembered thinking (as his scum partner) that it seemed fake. Only little things, but enough to make me take the shot.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:02 am

In post 4858, Aeronaut wrote:
In post 4852, T S O wrote:Apparently not. I have no idea why viking got this. I did not.

This might be a slip actually.

How? How is that a slip in any way?

Like I know you are so fucking eager for me to be scum and you to catch me, but really?

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:07 am

I am going to fucking lose it very shortly.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:08 am

In post 4864, Aeronaut wrote:My problem with this is that I can't see a way in which we verify this.

Give me a lynch and a shot.

If the scumteam isn't rotting on the ground by tomorrow morning you can lynch me because I don't know what I'm doing.

If it is, and I'm somehow alive, you kneel before your maker and you pray, because he will be no merciful god.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:10 am

I don't even mind being lynched tomorrow if 3 scum are dead by my hand. Maybe even if I hit 2. If I am wrong about both Marquis and goodmorning, I'll take the town consensus on whether me dying is best, but I'll be cranky as all fuck about it.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:13 am

I mean,

Marquis himself has said

he doesn't mind dying for the scum-TSO cause. This is an excellent way to prove it.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:16 am

In post 4872, T S O wrote:I mean,
Marquis himself has said
he doesn't mind dying for the scum-TSO cause. This is an excellent way to prove it.

Hey, Marquis, I'm going to bet you're gonna run away from all the promises and empty words you made when you said you dying was okay as long as I died. Are you? Because I can't wait to see people's reactions to that.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:16 am

In post 4876, Kitz wrote:I see a problem here.
A large problem.

Night 1, Mafia killed - Doctor killed - Cop healed.
= 3 shots.
Night 3, Mathblade killed by T S O Vigilante.

Where the fuck did the SK and Mafia kill go?

That's been the mystery of this game.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:17 am

I don't think scum shot MathBlade n3. So that leads me to think NS blocked that, and I think he was on me. That's why I've been saying I think I was Doc'd n3.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:19 am

In post 4676, goodmorning wrote:Let's be real. If I were Scum, we'd have targeted you and only you until you died.

What if this is partly true? Not every night, but gm's team did, at some stage, attempt to kill me?

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:20 am

Because it fits perfectly with goodmorning's scum motivation, and it explains n3 perfectly.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:52 pm

In post 4897, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 4888, Kitz wrote:Just a curious thing.
Why T S O over Wolf?

Do you ever see it possible to lynch Wolf?
Nope. Free townie roaming about.

WTF are you talking about?

Pretty much this, Kitz, no idea what this means.

In post 4894, Aeronaut wrote:Honestly TSO, I think it would be pretty easy for you to fake that claim, just kill whoever town tells you to kill, and just coast to the end like that.

Like if you kill who we say you're still getting your kill off, it doesn't matter to you

Aero, I know you're paranoid as shit of me. I really do. But I'm town here. Literally, every single piece of evidence, every action that happened in this game, is staring you in the face right now and screaming that I'm town with this game figured out. The missing kill on n3. The crumbs. Marquis doubtcasting the shit out of my claim. It's all there.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:54 pm

I've said it before. Mafia have a Rolecop. Bet on it.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:00 pm

Non-Consecutive Vigilante. pisskop n1, MathBlade n3.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:21 pm

If it's a scum flip, I hear that TSO guy is selling them for free. Think he calls them Marquis or something.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:43 pm

In post 4911, elusive wrote:
In post 4907, T S O wrote:If it's a scum flip, I hear that TSO guy is selling them for free. Think he calls them Marquis or something.

Your murder of MathBlade infuriates me. So does your push on FAQ2 being wrong.

I might be okay with Marquis if you weren't pushing it.

Oh, wow, I'm responsible for 3 deaths and only 1 of them was scum. Sue me, right?

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:44 pm

I shot MathBlade because I felt she kept talking nonsense and making up ridiculous shit. Like her Bulletproof claim. I knew that was a lie. My read on her is blatantly clear in my ISO, I even softed the fact I was shooting her.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:46 pm

It is actually a fucking joke how some town players are taking umbrage with the fact I had 2 shots and hit scum with one. That's a pretty good fucking shot record.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:47 pm

But I shouldn't be getting mad at the lovely goodmorning, to be fair - she has her scum agenda to push, and I appreciate that. I can even respect it, in a way.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:52 pm

In post 4921, elusive wrote:TSO, you could be an SK. MathBlade was asking to be lynched and if can't claimed vengeful townie - why not have just lynched her?

She also claimed Bulletproof, elusive. She claimed a lot of things. I felt she had a decent chance of flipping scum, and even if she didn't, she was a fantastic policy vig. She would have gotten herself lynched by claiming scum or something, and then she'd have probably killed me, the most important PR left in the game, with her Vengeful. There was no downside to the shot, and so many upsides.

In post 4921, elusive wrote:What are your thoughts on Shinobi?

Town. You don't even know how unenthused by his wagon I am.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:54 pm

Whatever, Aeronaut, I'm fucking sick of having to answer retarded questions.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:57 pm

There were three kills in this game n1.
We have a Vig who shot scum n1.
I claimed the vig.
I showed my motivation for the n1 shot.
Ergo, I am town.

Just because you disagree with one of my shots, and you're retrospectively using that shot's townflip to argue your point, doesn't make me scum. It doesn't make me anywhere in the realm of scum. I have explained why I shot MathBlade. You disagree. Quite honestly, I couldn't give a fuck.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:01 pm

I'm sorry if my responses are hurting your feelings. They're motivated by genuine annoyance and anger at the will of this town to lynch someone who is so blatantly town it's ridiculous.

I'm going to bed before I say something I really regret.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:01 pm

We're not fucking lynching Shinobi, just fucking bus your buddy already

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:42 pm

I am telling you, Marquis is scum.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:43 pm

In post 4937, Aeronaut wrote:I don't know anymore.

I feel like leaving him alive is going to be a terrible decision. Because say we have 3-4 scum remaining, if we mislynched today and he and scum both shoot town, we're endgamed.

And what's the alternative? You mislynch me, scum only get 1 kill - and you go on to lynch scum in 4 fucking consecutive LyLo scenarios? Because we're shown we're

so

competent at lynching scum this game?

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:44 pm

I actually did not realise how close goodmorning and Marquis are to a win - of course they're fucking shitting it that I'm going to remove two of them. It puts them way back in their plan.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:45 pm

Scum are not going to bus today because they have no need to. I am telling you. The resistance to the Marquis wagon is incredible. They won't bus him.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:46 pm

If scum refuse to bus Marquis, and this is 5-4 LyLo, then all it takes is one town player not voting Marquis to lose the game.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:47 pm

Marquis and goodmorning are scum. There's at least one more scum on Shinobi, because he's the town counterwagon to Marquis.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:48 pm

I think I can say Cheetory is town with relative confidence. Shinobi and dragonspawn too. And me.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:48 pm

I want to call SilverWolf town too even though it's been in the back of my mind I could be wrong.

So, who's left?

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:49 pm

In post 4984, T S O wrote:
If scum refuse to bus Marquis, and this is 5-4 LyLo, then all it takes is one town player not voting Marquis to lose the game.

Actually, this isn't 5-4 LyLo - it is probably 7-4 to us.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:51 pm

And, in case people don't remember this - Wake hammered the town fucking cop d2.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:05 pm

So, {TSO, Shinobi, dragonspawn, Cheetory, SilverWolf} as the townbloc, and {Marquis, goodmorning} as the scumbloc. Leaving me to sort Kitz, Aeronaut, Ozgin and elusive. 2 as town, 2 as scum.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:09 pm

I know I'm going to end up putting Kitz in the townbloc eventually, so let's cut to that.

Aeronaut, elusive and Ozgin.

T S O · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:26 pm

Elusive, remind me of your claim again?

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:03 am

In post 5002, Aeronaut wrote:Actually, I'm being an idiot

UNVOTE:

Even if he's scum, we'll know tomorrow if he's lying.

TSO, if we all vote on a target for you to Vig, will you follow that decision? Because I'm not really congortable with a Goodmorning kill.

If Marquis flips town, I am not shooting at all tonight.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:04 am

They'll kill me, and it'll be upon your heads to win this without me - but that's just how it is. I'm sorry.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:04 am

Though, as I have said so many times, Marquis -is- going to flip scum.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:09 am

"oh you think im scum, so you must be scum"

no

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:13 am

It's so frustrating trying to guide you guys along the right path when I

know

scum are just poisoning your minds against it and I don't have people around like ABR, who I know would be backing me to the hilt right now.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:17 am

And a lot of you don't have that requisite experience yet to know when you're being manipulated, and although I can tell you that you're being manipulated, I know that when you haven't felt it before it's just not as real. I know it because I was in games where I got manipulated too and the only one really seeing it was Nacho and even though I read his posts and did my best to understand, I just didn't get it.

And that's what's worrying me - that people like Marquis, who seem genuine, are going to be able to manipulate you when I'm gone. I have one day left. I need this lynch. And I need votes for it.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:37 am

Nah. Game's up, Marquis.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:42 am

Don't fucking lie to my face, Marquis, you can't lie to me like you lie to them. You're the one who was subtly trying to get them to doubt a Vig claim when it's as clear as fucking day that I'm the Vig, and when you saw that angle wasn't working, you backed off it without ever admitting to changing your mind. And on and on and on.

What are you even trying to say? That I said I made a post I didn't in full verification of like 5 people online when I made it, and then saying that scum's big power was to delete one post? I never said anything like that - at this stage you're literally throwing as much mud at me as you can and hoping the newbies think it sticks.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:56 am

I love the appeal to fear towards SilverWolf when she's agreed with me like once today that "ooo if you listen to tso for one day he'll magically manage to stay alive".

If you were town, you'd have plenty of lieutenants who'd carry your cross against me on your flip - goodmorning, Aeronaut. And I said specifically if I did not have scum dead by tomorrow I'd be alright with me dying.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:57 am

I remember exactly what I said. But you should note,

SilverWolf and Shinobi had the exact same reaction.

So unless the scumteam is TSO-SW-Shinobi and we co-ordinated this gigantic gambit for literally no reason - it's completely null.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:02 am

and that's why you were pushing me, right???

you must see how convenient as fuck that is as an explanation

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:02 am

Marquis,

you're not reading the game

- I discussed this. I don't know if I was Docced. I got no message. I think I was Docced. But it's a guess.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:03 am

Anyway, I'm off to watch House of Cards.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:12 am

My HDMI cable broke and I am mad.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:47 pm

Kitz, it's not a townslip if the sample PM

says

Citizen and then Klingoncelt flips Citizen to further verify that.

T S O · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:48 pm

Either you think Marquis is an idiot of gigantic proportions, or that makes absolutely no difference.

Can you vote already?

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:02 am

Indeed.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:02 am

Not me. It can only be a bad idea, but I can't

wait

to see what goodmorning claims.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:03 am

Actually, it's a relatively interesting play, for -reasons-.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:49 am

Is this just being stubborn, or not that? If it's the latter, then okay.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:57 am

But don't you think I'm scum? Therefore, you shouldn't tell me?

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:26 pm

Can we agree Ozgin isn't counterclaiming me and move on from that at least?

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:27 pm

I am starting to worry pretty strongly that I will not be able to push a Marquis lynch through because the resistance is fucking crazy.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:27 pm

goodmorning, I don't care if you think I am scum. I want to hear who you're calling scum outside of me, if you are. Do not make your scumread post about me.

Marquis, the exact same thing.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:28 pm

In fact everyone should get that but you two in particular.

Mod: replace Ozgin.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:29 pm

3 days without posting with deadline in half a week is pretty unacceptable.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:33 pm

In post 11, House wrote:VOTE: pisskop

For replacing into a scum slot.

It seems rather bizarre House called pisskop out on this given that pisskop was one of four replacements.

I get this was RVS, but still.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:33 pm

And Aero's run of bad posting continues.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:34 pm

In post 5103, Marquis wrote:he's being replaced and nothing is going to happen until i get confirmation there. you don't just get to push through this while skipping that.

Translation: I am going to wait until Ozgin confirms, which will take ages, and you won't have enough time to get me lynched.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:35 pm

Aeronaut's posting is so fucking bad I want to just throw him in as scum because he's either scum or so utterly misguided it's irrelevant.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:35 pm

Our reads are literally polar opposites. This is an extremely bad thing, given my confidence in my reads.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:36 pm

Though, I mean, props for initiating on giving reads - you deserve credit for that, just extremely minimal.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:36 pm

Reads change, big boy.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:37 pm

Like, the two people I am pushing as scum you steadfastly refuse to lynch.
You are still calling me scum despite this being fucking impossible.
Although you are calling me scum, you still have asked to control my Vig shot, because ???

Etcetera.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:38 pm

In post 5114, Aeronaut wrote:Sorry I'm not up to your standards this game bud

It's nothing personal, bud. I am not insulting you, I'm calling you scum. Don't make it personal.

In post 5115, Marquis wrote:oh please, quit it with the fearmongering. ozgin being replaced at this point in the day means deadline's paused, and if ika hasn't done that yet me
reminding him to pause the deadline now should
. not to mention he hasn't posted the deadline since day start so assuming i know ika enough it's more of a guideline to him anyway

So, your reads, yes? Wouldn't want to go discussing tangential issues or anything.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:39 pm

In post 5105, T S O wrote:
In post 11, House wrote:VOTE: pisskop

For replacing into a scum slot.

It seems rather bizarre House called pisskop out on this given that pisskop was one of four replacements.

I get this was RVS, but still.

SilverWolf:

do you think scum-House would be gutsy enough to pull this?

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:41 pm

In post 5119, Aeronaut wrote:Oh I see, you're turning around your reads so that you can kill me tonight because GM is no longer an option

Interesting.

lol

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:42 pm

Can you address the discrepancy I pointed out where you're calling me scum and not Vig, and you also asked to control my Vig shot?

Because that screams scum who really doesn't want a teammate getting shot.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:48 pm

Nah, you're lying.

What you're saying right now, is that your current thought process is "TSO is scum, but as scum, we can direct the player he kills, because he's going to do that for us, because ???"

Your thought process literally makes no sense.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:51 pm

If you were saying "TSO is town, TSO you should shoot her", sure. That's viable town thought. What you're trying to frame as town thought isn't. It's you trying to fake it and not being able to pull it off, because you had to manufacture your explanation after you took stances that were inconvenient towards it.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:51 pm

In post 5127, Aeronaut wrote:To keep up the vig charade

No I wouldn't, because you're

already calling me scum.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:54 pm

There's no gain for scum-TSO by following those actions - it's not going to make people scumreading me townread me. All it does is advance town's win condition. Not mine. So I wouldn't do it. I'd go off and try to make as much mayhem with my shot as possible.

There's no difficult leap in logic here, this is simple straightforward thought processes. The fact that you can't grasp these makes me feel better and better about my read right now.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:55 pm

In post 5132, Aeronaut wrote:I mean I'm just one vote

This is irrelevant to the point I'm making -

you

were the one who asked to control the vig. That wasn't a town consensus action, that was you. So this doesn't alter anything I'm saying.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:56 pm

It's 2 am, I'm going to bed.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:53 pm

bleeegggghhhh

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:54 pm

We can assume that Scum had something immune to Track/Cop, due to the prevalence of those roles; Godfather seems likely.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:55 pm

I think scum may have had an RC.

I don't think goodmorning's claim fits the bill.

T S O · Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:55 pm

Fuck.

T S O · Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:55 am

...no, Cheetory.

T S O · Wed Apr 01, 2015 3:01 am

Wait, goodmorning, walk me through your thought process there?

You didn't want to get me in a PT if you thought I was scum so you could firm up your read and then push it? Instead, you picked your townreads, and then with them and you in the PT you did ???