Newbie 1608: Snow Cones (Game Over)

[Keyser Söze]

Hi everyone

2 week deadline? Wow Is that the norm on here? I like long day phases - input from everyone, with no players lurking on the periphery.

Playing style: I like to look at the details


Question 1: What's your favourite ice-cream?

[Keyser Söze]

My Timezone is EST & I work night shift, so if I'm off work a lot of my posts will come early evening on through the night. If I'm working it'll most likely be afternoon or early morning when I'm going to or coming home from work.

My time zone is PST, my posts will usually be in the evening unless I'm having a slow day at work.

Fraggernaut and Rosen already making excuses
Noted.

VOTE: Rosen

I always choose fire over grass or water. Fire is always the best

I don't really see why timezones matter but mine is UTC +8 if anyone cares

I sense a feeling of

'trying-to-fit-in'

here. Why post that if you don't personally care...

VOTE: Reubus Swagrid

[Keyser Söze]

'I will also post when I am online'

What's your favourite ice-cream Fraggernaut?

[Keyser Söze]

Mine is cookie dough ice cream served on a hot waffle. Perfection.


Have any of you played with eachother before?

[Keyser Söze]

Yea, I wasn't bothered about TZ's either - only that they are active.

This could be applied to countless instances across the site but this is a fairly weak reason in itself. Would you say that trying to fit in is more often than not a scum based motive? Hardly indicative imo

Pedit: I have never played with anyone in the thread other than MiteyMouse and our mod.

"trying to fit in" - I believe more scum-aligned indicative:

conforming

.

But even I'm guilty of that!

I took part in the RVS, something which I personally hate But two factors changed my opinion. 1) 2 week deadline 2) different website, different rules.

[Keyser Söze]

Btw guys. My fos now is

VOTE: Rosen

Reason is her intro seems forced to me. Idk if anyone else agrees.

I liked your post until this part: "

Idk if anyone else agrees

" - are you looking for approval from everyone...

[Keyser Söze]

enomis, you took the words right out of my mouth:

"How do you present somebody as scum and convince everyone to follow your vote?"

RE: Bulbazoor's post: "Reason is her intro seems forced to me.

Idk if anyone else agrees

."


IMO, it felt like Bulbazoor was laying the seeds for a wagon

[Keyser Söze]

Trying to make excuses? Far from it. Was simply stating what time zone I was in & when to expect me to post.

Noted.

VOTE: Vote Keyser

Going to flag this too - it sounds like Fraggernaut wasn't too comfortable being scum-read He even repeated my "noted" comment and ended it with a vote

I think a relaxed townie wouldn't have been so irritable - I'm glad I provoked this reaction, whether it be real or forced.

[Keyser Söze]

I think you are over-analyzing things on bulbazoor.

Are you suggesting I stop looking at bulbazoor... or stop reading into his posts too much?

Interesting.

[Keyser Söze]

DO YOU THINK

it's real or forced?

At the moment... real. I think it's too late for him to say it was reaction-testing But admittedly, a better response from him the second time round.

Let's say i am a newbie scum joining in. Why would i need to lay a seed for a wagon on some random dude page 2 of the game. It totally doesn't make sense you see.

Interesting use of the phrase: '

'random dude

''. Your 'newbie scum' would already know who is town-aligned and who is not, so not so 'random' afterall! I'm not dropping this now

[Keyser Söze]

Why do you mean at the moment. Does him being scum/town change your view on that reaction? Why can't he be real at that post as scum.

At the moment I think he's scum, thus, I believe that reaction was real. Am I allowed to change my mind later?

7people is still some random dude.

Only "random" if he was town - it's seems like you

know

Bulbazoor is town then.



Were all your points on Reubus Swagrid

sincere

, or a reaction test to put him on three votes?

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser 14: My favorite ice cream flavor is rose, actually.
So what's the point of this question? Seems very low information out of other possible "random" questions.

It was an ice-breaker: giving someone a chance for an easy contribution, to see who was relaxed, who would attack it and to see who would ignore it completely.

Keyser 32: Confused by the first part here. "enomis, you took the words right out of my mouth: "How do you present somebody as scum and convince everyone to follow your vote?"
If that's in reference to Reubus, please elaborate.

That was in reference to Bulbazoor: he said your intro was fake, then asked everyone whether they agreed,

inviting anyone to agree

.

[Keyser Söze]

I think all of his arguments are really weak

and he seems like he's latching onto everything that could look scummy, in the hopes that it may look scummy to the rest of the town, too.

Not going to disagree with the part in

bold

Yep, all of it is very weak, it's Day One. I'm looking at small details here, but once we see a flip on someone, all those small details could add up to something helpful.

Disagree with this part though:

"in the hopes that it may look scummy to the rest of the town"

- I think everyone has a mind/opinion of their own, they can choose to disagree, ignore or to talk about it.
- I won't respect anyone who accepts my posts as 'fact' this early.
- Neither do I like someone pointing out the obvious fact that my observations aren't strong conclusive arguments/reads for D1


Currently I'm looking at:
- enomis' third vote on Reubus Swagrid
- Bulbazoor's "Idk if anyone else agrees" comment

[Keyser Söze]

Btw guys. My fos now is

VOTE: Rosen

Reason is her intro seems forced to me. Idk if anyone else agrees.

I'd already flagged Rosen's intro before your vote. Were you planning on me agreeing and adding a vote

[Keyser Söze]

@Fragg

Conform to mafiascum D1 rituals: RVS. 2 weeks is a long time, so more time to read into wagons, random votes.

Your intros were not strong scum reads of mine, just shared behaviour I flagged.

Your reaction to my flag was the scummy part. Was that reaction 100% sincere, including the vote?

[Keyser Söze]

@Fragg, is there a reason why you sound like a mafia newb in posts 39/43, but then a seasoned scumhunting pro by post 51?

I had to look back if you were the same person quick learner eh?

[Keyser Söze]

I like Bulbs' defence.

He could have said I was talking s##t and thrown a vote on me, but he explained each point clearly and calmly. He wasn't afraid of me flagging his post. Idk if anyone else agrees.

[Keyser Söze]

I don't know who mantis is... lol

Can mod nudge him/her please.

[Keyser Söze]

It was sincere, it's unforunate that you read that scummy because a newbie defended themselves.

Seems rather easy & convient if scum tried to push on a new guy like me still learning the game. Seems you have plenty of experience regardless of what you're tenure here implies

.

Remember, my vote is not on you. Do you not like my focus? "Scum" trying "to push on a new guy" - scum meaning me and who else...? It's just me bro.

How do now know what "experience" is? Admit it, you're not a newb. You already knew what "scum" and "scumhunting" meant

Also is that vote really bothering you that much on d1?

I'm incredibly scared But something that is even scarier is someone who admits making a sincere vote for someone straight after a

gentle prod

. Can you at least concede my point that I found your retaliation vote impetuous?

[Keyser Söze]

What do you think about super though?

Super's first vote is as random as they come. But let Super admit to that.

The timing of his unvote and re-vote is also interesting. Mr.Reubus was at L-2, when Super voted for me [thinking aloud here: did he want to spark a rival wagon?]. At this stage I don't actually think Reub is scum now, so will UNVOTE: .

There's been

two times

Super has withheld info (or his opinion) - opportunistic? Strange timing IMO.

1st time:

Ugh

I can't even post anything thoughtful rite now even tho I have stuff to say

. I'll probably get something down when I'm in school tho, so expect something from me soon.

2nd time:

@frag

I can't really say any more without breaking the rules

.

Paraphrase please. If you have something useful to say we need to hear it

[Keyser Söze]

By calling out every little thing you think could be scummy, you make yourself sound like you're scum trying to find some detail which you can use to push an argument that one of us is scummy, which IMO is more likely to come from scum (since the scum know who's town and need to try to find things that people they know are town say that are scummy and are found by the rest of the town to be scummy). If you're just noting things you think might be useful for future reads or think aren't as important now but you'll be able to develop arguments around them later, couldn't you just go back in the game to where these things were being said and bring them up later?

"make yourself sound like you're scum" - that's not a good tactic is it?!
"couldn't you just go back in the game to where these things were being said and bring them up later" - I have a personal goal of being active from the start, right to the point I am lynched/NK'd. If I make 1 post every 24-48 hours, that does not help town. Better out than in as one famous ogre said. We need to hear eachother's thoughts. I've already got reactions through my questions/reads/comments.

I think you're (maybe purposefully) overanalyzing bulbazoor, bulba is clearly just noobing it out so hard that it's pretty hard to get a read.

"overanalyzing bulbazoor", you spookily sound like you're parroting enomis' comments earlier.

I think you are over-analyzing things on bulbazoor

Wow, that's nearly word for word... I've looked at Bulbasaurus, have my read on him and have moved on. I'm not looking at Bulba anymore.

@keyser (again) Let me just say that 57 is not exactly a work of art when it comes to "defences", as you call them, but I think that you're more interested in the manner in which he reacted, and in the process of trying to commend him for his non-aggressive defense you attack another player. Hypocritical? You tell me.

"attack another player" - tell me who I shouldn't attack.

As for 60, yeah I wouldn't mind a wagon on you right now. I think it'd be good to see you under a bit of early pressure.
As for "withholding info", you don't seem to understand that people actually have lives, like, irl, and they kinda need to take care of stuff a lot of the time. Not everyone has 5 hours to sit here, monitor the thread, and wall, and some people barely have a minute to spare. You need to respect people's personal lives, and accusing people as you've done of "making excuses" or "withholding" for simply saying that they're kinda busy so you can expect a post(s) at such and such a time is kind of illogical and I dare say a bit disrespectful. As for the second thing, I've had extremely minimal experience on the site (hence why I am playing as a noob), and I've already broken the rules once; no way am I risking breaking them again. It's not that important anyways, just a little conjecture I had.

What a load of fluff. Fell asleep half way through Don't tell me you just dished out the classic

"you don't seem to understand that people actually have lives"

line Please keep your fluff, conjectures and rule breaks off this thread please I don't want to sift through multiple:

"I have something to say, but can't"

posts.
"You need to respect people's personal lives" - please respect my personal free time too. When I read this thread I don't want my free time wasted by fluff, conjectures and rule breaking.

[Keyser Söze]

@enomis: "Why does his alignment have to do with the reaction being real or fake. Why can't he be town giving that reaction?"

It was my initial stance on Fraggernaut's "alignment" - I took him as scum with his impetuous/reaction vote.
I viewed it as a real reaction not fake.
I like him as town for now - his subsequent reactions resonate sincerity.
So yes, it obviously wasn't conclusive evidence of his alignment.

[Keyser Söze]

So him talking shit and throwing a vote on you would have been scummy? I could totally see town doing that though.

"I could totally see town doing that though" - why are you speaking from the perspective of scum...
"him talking shit" - exactly,

talking shit

. You know I'm town don't you
I don't care about votes really - only reactions.

And you said "Idk if anyone else agrees" comment is scummy right? And you are using it yourself, multiple times it seems.

It was quite clear I was being sarcastic. Idk if anyone else agrees. I was waiting for someone to naively bite on that...

Why is explaining each point clearly and calmly towny? I find it a matter of playstyle on how they play. I am curious as to why you find that alignment-indicative.

I want reactions like these. Yes, we shouldn't be naive to only look at the people who are "attacking us". If someone keeps agreeing and copying our words, that's suspicious.

[Keyser Söze]

@Rosen: "How'd Enomis take the words out of your mouth about Bulba when his post 31 was about Reubus?"

Sorry, will try to explain as clearly as possible:

Enomis said "How do you present somebody as scum and convince everyone to follow your vote?"

I viewed Bulbs' earlier post as doing this: "Reason is her intro seems forced to me. Idk if anyone else agrees."

Bulb presented a simple opinion, insinuating your intro was fake. He then invited anyone to agree - I viewed it as 'laying the foundation' for a vote on you.

[Keyser Söze]

I like Bulbs' defence.

He could have said I was talking s##t and thrown a vote on me, but he explained each point clearly and calmly. He wasn't afraid of me flagging his post. Idk if anyone else agrees.

Zoom in. "

Idk if anyone else agrees.

"
Is this post snark or sincere? It looks set up so you could claim it's either, so how about you clarify, Keyser? Post 65 has more snark-shielding.

Excellent understanding Rosen.
It was a "snark" fest.
I will use [] next time.

It sounds like Enomis had a problem with me "town-reading" Bulbazoorus

[Keyser Söze]

@mod

Vote count please.

Any news on mantis or miteymouse?

[Keyser Söze]

"It'd definitely be a violation of the rules if I brought it up, nor is it a very concrete argument. I retract whatever I said about it earlier." - too late, you've said it now. Don't promise something then not deliver. For future reference, don't post anything at all if it is futile/evasive/mis-repping - otherwise you waste my time looking over your mistakes and conjectures.

"Let's get this wagon moving then, people." - this is embarassing. I think you're having a poor game, mate. I might use this as my sig.

Yet more fluff and promises to not rule break. I think a modkill would put you out of your misery, but fortunately for you, I town read you - a townie having a nightmare. Thus, we need you alive.

"making relatively safe prods at others without actually voting." - you haven't been reading the thread. I've already voted, unvoted, and clearly spoken about my scum/town reads (there are only two I have no reads on). I only vote for my lead scum reads. If you want to waste our time rallying up a "wagon" and lynching a townie please continue, but I would love to hear your thoughts on other people at the same time.

[Keyser Söze]

34 Keyser said something about a relaxed Townie not being so irritable (paraphrasing). I'm not sure anyone can be relaxed right now. And I would think the Scum are more relaxed than Town. They have more information than the rest of us do so, this stage would be easier for them. The other thing to note is that the majority of the players in here are newer so fear of being lynched will still be there. Even if they know that it gets more information. Wait, then in 54 you say you are scared...is that of votes? If so, wouldn't a relaxed Townie be less scared? See where I'm going with this?

Hi MiteyMouse, thanks for joining the party
Yes, at the start I found Fragg's response and vote very sensitive (which I originally interpreted as a nervous scum - but since then, through my interactions with him, I believe his reaction was sincere. Town-read now.

Keyser, I find it interesting that you are looking at Bulb for his ot sure if anyone agrees (paraphrasing) comment but, not at Superbowl for his "but, that's just may be me" comment. Care to explain?

Can you re-post/explain this please?

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, good point, let's bump this and wait for Bulbazoorus' response:

I fos rosen because of how se seems to ignore my vote on her. She i not even responding to me and the vote. If you are going to do so, please respond. To my vote Rosen. I would like some input from super and mantis also

Hold it! Rewind!

Btw guys. My fos now is

VOTE: Rosen

Reason is her intro seems forced to me. Idk if anyone else agrees.

You FOS me because my intro seems forced to you, but now it's because I didn't respond to your vote? You were essentially asking others to agree with you, but I don't see a question for me. Are you sure it doesn't seem forced to you because it put a vote on you?

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, the point I was grilling Super on. It sounded like he had something meaty to share about me, which intrigued me, but then he said if he revealed what it was it would be rule-breaking or something. So that came to a disappointing dead end.



"Oh...I forgot to add, Keyser do you have mafia experience?" - yeah, I've been playing since Xmas (probably 10 forum games so far). A few similarities/differences to the mechanics/behaviour, but still the same game.

[Keyser Söze]

My experience in Mafia is very minimum. I've played one game of video Mafia, & the terms are different.

Fraggs, evening. Would you agree with this scenario:

I realise your vote is on me right now... but imagine that I'm "town" for one moment
I believe there are only two votes on me at the moment, you and Super (two townies I trust for now).
Would you agree that your two votes on me, makes it

unlikely

that both of you are the two mafia?
It's either one of you are, or none.
i.e I believe it would be foolish for the 2 mafia to wagon the same person. It would either be 1 or none.
Agree?
[Maybe something to look at later if I'm NK'd/lynched]

I coukd clear myself if I wanted to.

Bulb was that a soft?

Yes, a roleclaim was not needed this early under no pressure

MOD

, where are you? - vote count please.
PRAYING

MANTIS

, where are you? - please contribute.

[Keyser Söze]

"I'm not going to say anything else about this, as I've already retracted my statement." - as long as you don't delete the original post! I forgive you.

"What's the reasoning behind your read btw?" - certainly. I dont think mafia would want to engage in a heated one-on-one like we have. I think scum lies in the camp who have watched me slug it out with Fraggs, then slog it out with you. I can sense how you believe everything I have been doing is scummy, but I've been trying to get reactions from the start from everyone. I hate having null-reads on people.

""soft" reads" - definitely, it's day one. Anyone who charges in saying someone is mafia for definite should be looked at on D1. The moment I have a strong read I will announce it loudly, this will probably come later.

"I've actually been kind of tunneling you, because you post so much that i've got my hands full responding to everything you've been bringing up about me." - keep tunneling though, I'm interested to see who else jumps on. As I posted earlier, both you and Fragganator can't be the two mafia.

Only one or none

.

I currently put enomis in my scum-read camp, for his third vote on Reubus. Enomis hasn't done anything since, supporting his scum-read - he might as well unvote. (Reubus is currently at L-2 I believe).

"I'd also like a reads list from you (plus reasoning if it's not too much to ask)" - yes, I will do this later tonight or tomorrow. I've only interacted with 4 or 5 people. I still don't know who a few are.

[Keyser Söze]

Lots of null reads, and I'm your single scum read, that's helpful! I'd recommend looking closer at others. Otherwise, when/if you find out I'm town you'll be lost at sea, with only your 100 page-essays about me to reminiscence with, and zero reads on the actual blood-thirsty scum.

"I disagree with 96" - come on, do you honestly think the only 2 mafia would both vote for someone this early. IMO, one or none. (I don't think even newb mafia would do this).


"I can barely make sense of his posts" - I think Bulbazoorus' first language is not English - either way, I can feel his passion and emotion emanating from his posts.

[Keyser Söze]

@GuyInFreezer

, didn't I unvote properly?

---

You have, but usually votes at the end of the side or in middle of the sentence are easy to miss. Fixed.

[Keyser Söze]

"I ISO'd Enomis and ctrl-f didn't bring that up." - yeah, check post 31. He was quoting some Rampage textbook or something, so wouldn't appear on his ISO [topic was RVS vs RQS, I believe.

[Keyser Söze]

"naive biters" - opportunistic scum, in this case, mafia.

"Seems to me you are doing a lot of pointless reaction testing and they don't even give any information."

False. Nothing is ever pointless. Whatever you post is in black and white to be analyzed later.
Current reads from one-on-one:

town-read: fragg, Super
Scum-read: enomis

I find it interesting that you voted Reubus when he was at L-2, and now you say all my work has been "pointless"... I believe you keep focusing on the players under heat and not concerned with the passengers. My earlier posts: I was wondering why you wanted me to stop over-analyzing on bulba: I think you already know his alignment, so if he flipped, you'd gain town cred.

[Keyser Söze]

@keyer:

I don't understand your post 73. I don't udnerstand the first part of your post 74 too.

Post 73 in simple summary: My understanding on Fragg changed from scum reaction to town reaction.

Post 74 in simple summary: You spoke from the perspective of scum again.

[Keyser Söze]

Mantisdreamz' two posts so far:

good evening

VOTE: fraggernaut

Mantis is a "Semi-experienced [SE] player" so I would imagine if she was scum she wouldn't dare let these be her only two contributions so far.
I'll town-read her for this.

Too busy to contribute for the first 48 hours, but not too busy to vote for Fragganator!


VOTE: enomis

[Keyser Söze]

Only thing I saw about this post honestly, was that you invited me to agree with your opinion, which you spent quite a bit of harping Bulb for

That is true, I was asking for your agreement, but it was directed at only you (it wasn't a mass plea for approval to everyone).

Also Bulb is slowly climbing into my scum circle, for his soft but wasn't really a soft. Seemed like a really odd thing to do, & stating that you could clear yourself if you wanted to leads me to believe that you're privy to some info others aren't.

I felt it was unnecessary. But judging by his vulnerable/defensive disposition: "Well, please hit me if you want to. Spank me please" - I feel like if someone pushed him, he would roleclaim. The fact he said "I coukd clear myself if I wanted to" means only one thing in my eyes, and it would be anti-town to broadcast it.

Bulbazoor now has the dilemna of living up to that

promise

when the time comes - but I don't think that time should be now.

[Keyser Söze]

What a pokist. Hey guys!

OK, I now understand what he and the others were on about. They're all pokemon fans.

Btw guys. My fos now is

VOTE: Rosen

Reason is her intro seems forced to me. Idk if anyone else agrees.

Ok, so post 28 is when Bulbazoor announces his FINGEROFSUSPICION and posts his VOTE on Rosen. Reason? "her intro seems forced to me". Simple.


But here is when things get muddied:

I fos rosen because of how se seems to ignore my vote on her. She i not even responding to me and the vote. If you are going to do so, please respond. To my vote Rosen. I would like some input from super and mantis also

Obviously, Rosen now flags Bulbazoor's post 55, when he now announces his FINGEROFSUSPICION was "how [she] seems to ignore my vote on her. She [is] not even responding to me and the vote".

Therefore, Rosen is confused about the two different reasons for his SUSPICION:

1) "her intro seems forced to me"

vs

2) "how [she] seems to ignore my vote on her. She [is] not even responding to me and the vote".


Therefore, Bulbazoor has either:

- had two seperate reasons for his FOS on Rosen
- he has changed his FOS and reasons, but not acknowledged it yet
- or he is confused

[Keyser Söze]

I don't want you lynched Bulbazoorus. Where are you from mate?

[Keyser Söze]

enomis, I respect the effort you put into reacting and writing that long post. Nobody has flagged any of your posts since I voted for you which works in your favour (bulba hinted at voting for you though ). So far you've only had a history of responding to people.
E.g @super, @Rosen, @keyser, @fragg...

Please could you engage the interaction though, especially towards the people who aren't looking at you.


Mightymouse: "Question: what is everyone's mafia experience? A number of you seem to have a good grasp of the game and I'm [curious]'' - are mafia wondering which experienced players to NK?

[Keyser Söze]

I like null-read naked vote lurkers because they're a policy lynch if they don't contribute later. Mantis' plan is to glide into D2, let her It goes against my personal pro-town philosophy though, because if she's town and gets NK'D we have NOTHING to go on, for D2.

@miteyMouse, depends on the intensity of the bite.

RE: bulb's ambiguous roleclaim, it should at least buy him one day - I don't think he should be lynch material for D1. As long as he can live up to that promise later.


So far, Mantis and Bulbazoor have given me reasons to NOT lynch them for D1 [whether they were they did it intentionally OR unintentionally will decide whether it was PRO-TOWN or ANTI-TOWN].

[Keyser Söze]

...yeah, stopped looking and 'over-analysing' on Bulbazoor now. I'd be careful which of his buttons you press too.

Note to Bulbazoor: this doesn't mean I've given you a free pass amigo. It means when the time comes to honour your promise you better deliver, otherwise I'll be the one tightening the noose around your neck You unvoted Rosen to allow yourself

'more time to scumhunt'

. Honouring this promise is particularly important for D1, as you've already put a big target on your head for the scum

@Mitey & Enomis
Do you have any reads as of yet?

@GIF
Requesting replacement for Mantisdreamz

This is very pro-town of you mate:
1) Encouraging reads from other players
2) Requesting a replacement for (formerly) missing-in-action Mantis

[Keyser Söze]

first off - i apologize to everyone for my lack of posting.. i plan on catching up fully tonight, and then giving some substantial thoughts.

the reason why i voted frag was after a skim, i thought he might have been *overly* playing the noob card. and whilst most are new to the game, it should not be used as an excuse.

the naked vote was to get reactions from him. or others even.

i know that naked votes are annoying... but when you do do them, and they happen to hit scum, it's always interesting to see what the reaction is.

Apology accepted.
I knew you'd be too experienced to let yourself be policy lynched like that

Yeah, I was guilty of going pretty hard on Fraggs at the beginning for playing the 'n00b card', but then took a step back to read through his posts as a beginner. I liked his and Super's vote on me, as it rules out 1 or both of them being the mafia. I have never seen 2 mafia jump on the same person at the same time on D1.

[Keyser Söze]

Does anyone know who Krystal Bald is?

[Keyser Söze]

"why do you hate RVS? how many times have you played..? it seems you have played enough to realize enough that you dislike RVS"

I usually play games where the day phases last only 1-3 actual days, so not much time to analyse the votes, especially if people are away for a day or two. And even when you start looking at the random votes it's easier to miss-read people, as it's a hollow vote with hardly any meat. It seems easier for scum to hide in RVS too.

[Keyser Söze]

"But keyer, i would like you to answer my questions. It would certain help me to gleam into your thought process."

Yes, I will, that is fair.
I am not 100% confident with my vote on you, so your responses on my answers may prove useful for both of us.

[Keyser Söze]

I wouldn't call Reubus the "scummiest" player so far.

Ironically, if there's anything he is guilty of is that he's playing too pro-town

[Keyser Söze]

But keyer, i would like you to answer my questions. It would certain help me to gleam into your thought process.

I'm back. Sorry enomis, as promised. Comments in

blue

.

@Keyer: For the naive biter thing, did you realize my sentence was sarcastic too? Like i did not say "gg, you are scum for using i dk if i agree phrase". So you naively biting on my sarcastic comment makes you scum? And one more thing, i think if anyone bites on that stuff, i don't thing it is more likely for scum to do. Tell me then, if you are town and you didn't know keyer was sarcastic, what would you do? You would question it? This is why i concluded your reaction testing was pointless. It does not tell you anything about the person who bites on it.

When I read your post, I didn't think you were being sarcastic. I thought you were sincerely flagging me for using Bulbazoor's now iconic "idk" line. I felt you were using it against me. My "idk" parody post also provoked a reaction from Rosen: she also flagged my multiple use of "idk" too, but realised I was playing games. I felt it would be scummy to point it out as I thought it was baiting an easy bite - in the end, it make two people react differently;

Yours: "And you said "Idk if anyone else agrees" comment is scummy right? And you are using it yourself, multiple times it seems."
Rosen's: "Is this post snark or sincere? It looks set up so you could claim it's either, so how about you clarify, Keyser?"

I prefered Rosen's reaction as she gave me an option to claim it was "snark", while yours only gave me the option of it being "scummy".

I am figuring out whether you are scum trying to act like you are doing some real scum hunting or town clueless about doing reaction testing. I don't understand why you keep harping on the L2 thing. Do you think he is going too get lynched on page 2-3 of the game? To be frank, the point of my vote coupled with the weak reasons, was to build a wagon. Tell me then, what is the scum motivation for putting people at L-2 on page 2 of the game.

Just because you think I have miss-read or miss-repped you does not mean I am a "town clueless about doing reaction testing" - can't I be a townie who's incorrectly read something? (as most townies will do on D1). Judging by the flow of D1, it looks like scum have been happy to sit back and not take charge of the wagons. In the games I usually play, quick voting is dangerous because the days are shorter, so the games moves much faster - but I've realised this D1 will be drawn out (which is to our benefit), and also goes in your favour.

Can you confirm something though for me:

1) Was your original vote on Reubus a reaction test to build a wagon?
2) Were the reasons for your original vote on Reubus admittedly insincere?
3) What are your currents reasons for keeping your vote on Reubus?

Thanks.

[Keyser Söze]

Fragger 16: Why did you opt to not answer the ice cream question initially?

lol!

he must be scum then!

btw, this made my day

i'm still laughing a little that you asked him about opting out of the ice cream question

Jokes aside, this makes me want to look at Rosen closer now

'The ice cream question'

is a staplemark of all elite scum hunting. Scum don't know how to handle it

[Keyser Söze]

Bulbazoor, please be consistent mate. You're making me want look at you again .

Post 160, you're stating as a fact you "just softed":

Ok, you must be really blind guys. I just softed and you still act like i never did.

You dismiss the other possible events and say im scum getting attention on myself.

Then a second later in post 163, you're saying you 'potentially' softed:

I see scum jumping on me in this case.

Especially after potential soft by my part.

I associate

consistency

with town.

Inconsistency

with scum

I think you're the second one to bring this up. I don't think it is a good observation, because there are plenty of people who just catch onto the game really quickly, kinda like me. You can be a newbie and still be a competent player.

Take this as a compliment: I don't think you or Fraggs are 'newbs'. As soon as you both admit to this, the better.

I wouldn't call Reubus the "scummiest" player so far.

Ironically, if there's anything he is guilty of is that he's playing too pro-town

Moreover, I wouldn't be comfortable with a Reubus lynch for D1. In my eyes he's been posting all the right answers and replies (anti-aggressive): do I see this 'act' as possibly scummy? (Yes!), do I seriously want to lynch someone who sounds town? (No!). That is where I am with Reubus.

I feel his posts are continually

appeasing

everyone and

neutralising

everything:
"I don't really see why timezones matter but mine is UTC +8 if anyone cares" - appease
"on the chance that these people likely care about my TZ if they cared enough about theirs to post it I'll post mine." - appease
"Hardly indicative imo" - neutralise
"Does being insincere have connotations with being scummy?" - neutralise
"His third vote on me is interesting, he votes me for weak reasons but who can blame him?" - neautralise and appease
"Bulbazoor's comment can be one of two things" - neutralise
"there isn't much actual content to focus on this early in the game especially given our circumstances" - neutralise
"Hypocrisy also has connotations with being scummy?" - neutralise
"I believe your Keyser read to be solid, but not solid enough to give me a reason to shift my vote." - appease

[If anyone has played with Reubus before, is this his usual playstyle? Or is he more agressive?]

However

, his defense (#181-188) from Bulbazoor's attack, I sensed a small changing shift in his persona (then ending with a summary of his reads). Is it because he was frustrated with Bulb's posts? He felt threatened...? Or he just wanted one last push before he is replaced?

[Keyser Söze]

I feel as though at least once scum is lurking right now and getting away with it.

Who? Rosen. The one person you didn't mention in your read list?

[Keyser Söze]

This is not a naked vote

VOTE: Rosen


Three reasons: two reasons 'hidden' above, and the third reason will be explained later.

[Keyser Söze]

Hey all, I'm back. I probably should've V/LA for the weekend but I didn't. Will post posts later

@Mod
I have a predicament, I will be V/LA from the 28th until the 5th, would it be better if I replaced out?

Hey guys, sorry about this but I've gotta replace out. I've got a vacation coming up and apparently that means I need to work extra the weeks preceding it. I don't feel like I can do the game justice at this rate.

@Mod, formally requesting replacement

.

What is going on: someone reaches L-2, then they request to be replaced...

It is the pro-town thing to do though - it gives us 5 days to look at their replacements (including their own reads).

[Keyser Söze]

Also ill admit I'm not necessarily new. I've played some video mafia as well as Epic Mafia, but it's still a whole different ballgame & pace from forum mafia.

How do you guys encourage discussion on video mafia/Epic Mafia - are there any mini-games you play (to aid scum-hunting)?

This current game feels so stop/start - interesting to see that the "newbs" have taken control of the scum-hunting too I want MiteyMouse (SE) and enomis (IC) to contribute more. GuyInFreezer (the bloody mod) has nearly made more posts than them ...and now we're on the verge of two players being replaced too

I was actually debating last night whether to post some fake ''scum-slips'' just to wake some people up

Changed my mind when Rosen announced her retirement this morning - this intrigued me.

[Keyser Söze]

In video mafia the scum hunting & reads come more from body language & the way people answer questions or interact with others. It also comes from "formals" which is usually 3-5 minutes, then comes a vote after which also gives you a lot of info.

Wow, that is totally another game

Fraggernaut, I feel we are under-using your body-language-read talent.

Place a name under each picture. Who do you think they depict?

Person A:.............................




Person B:.............................

[Keyser Söze]

I hope nobody quickhammers - why did you want Rosen lynched?

I want to hear more from Master Zik and Miteymouse before N1 too.

If Rosen is scum, there is a good chance Reubus is mafia too - I'll explain the theory later. Mafia is never this easy so I expect Rosen to flip town lol.

[Keyser Söze]

Btw, if anyone hammers Rosen without first posting 'intent to hammer' first, we're going to lynch you D2.

[Keyser Söze]

Intent to exploit Poe's Law.

224: Ew, you actually did like a game thing. You're either waaaay overzealous town or scum (I've made clear which I think). How would this take advantage of body language reading, exactly?

I love you dude. I hope we play again in the near future - this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

I feel there are better candidates (Reu, mantis, maybe enomis)

Two of your 3-player scum list are on my D1 lynch pool, so I would say our two different methods are working in perfect harmony.

We should wait to hear from zik before anyone hammers

As I said earlier, if anyone hammers (a)

before

Master Zik defends himself or (b)

before

posting

'intent to hammer'

, they will be lynched D2. I don't care what alignment they are, they must learn

[Keyser Söze]

How would everyone feel about a mantis lynch?

These were my thoughts before Mantisdreamz rejoined us:

Mantisdreamz' two posts so far:

good evening

VOTE: fraggernaut

Mantis is a "Semi-experienced [SE] player" so I would imagine if she was scum she wouldn't dare let these be her only two contributions so far.
I'll town-read her for this.

Too busy to contribute for the first 48 hours, but not too busy to vote for Fragganator!

I have admittedly let her off-the-hook for D1 - I doubt a [SE] would have given both experienced players and newbs such ammunition to lynch her.

...but her coming back and boosting her post-count slightly undermines my original point
It sounded like you have some mafia history with her - but I didn't highlight it at the time - do you have any playstyle/comparison notes on her?
She town-reads me, you and Bulb

She's not on my D1 lynch pool.

[Keyser Söze]

So, to get this straight she's not in your lynch pool because of your WIFOM at first and afterwards because she town-reads you, me, and bulb?

Her town-reading me didn't dictate whether I wanted her lynched or not.

I guess her boyfriend played with me though.

Do you want to talk about this bro?

RE: Rosen

, going to "over-analyze" post #42:

Keyser 14: My favorite ice cream flavor is rose, actually. So what's the point of this question? Seems very low information out of other possible "random" questions.

Fragger 16: Why did you opt to not answer the ice cream question initially?

Questions the purpose of my ''low information" question about icecream, but then challenges Fraggernaut a moment later about why he didn't answer it

Fraggernaut, you've made a few posts now but there's no scumhunting in them, just defense. Why is that?

Fraggernaut wasn't scumhunting because he was busy repelling my insults and accusations - I feel Rosen was

looking

at the thread, but intentionally not

reading

the situation, and using it against Fraggernaut.

[Keyser Söze]

Hi all. Replacing Reubus here.

Have no fear! Master Zik is here!

Welcome Fro99er and Master Zik - I look forward to your contributions, we still have 4 days left,

plenty of time

- but ideally we'd need your thoughts in before the weekend - we don't want to be scrambling for a wagon minutes before the deadline!

Tell me who is scum, and tell me who is town.

[Keyser Söze]

Miteymouse is probably scum.

Reebus Swagrid is probably scum.

VOTE: Reebus Swagrid

Thanks for the thorough analysis - "thorough" will be needed to save your skin To be honest I will be taking a closer look at your scum reads than your town reads.

I agree with your point that Reubus was not actively (and directly) pointing fingers until defending himself against Bulbazoor. What are your thoughts on my earlier point regarding his posting stance:

I wouldn't call Reubus the "scummiest" player so far.

Ironically, if there's anything he is guilty of is that he's playing too pro-town

Moreover, I wouldn't be comfortable with a Reubus lynch for D1. In my eyes he's been posting all the right answers and replies (anti-aggressive): do I see this 'act' as possibly scummy? (Yes!), do I seriously want to lynch someone who sounds town? (No!). That is where I am with Reubus.

I feel his posts are continually

appeasing

everyone and

neutralising

everything:
"I don't really see why timezones matter but mine is UTC +8 if anyone cares" - appease
"on the chance that these people likely care about my TZ if they cared enough about theirs to post it I'll post mine." - appease
"Hardly indicative imo" - neutralise
"Does being insincere have connotations with being scummy?" - neutralise
"His third vote on me is interesting, he votes me for weak reasons but who can blame him?" - neautralise and appease
"Bulbazoor's comment can be one of two things" - neutralise
"there isn't much actual content to focus on this early in the game especially given our circumstances" - neutralise
"Hypocrisy also has connotations with being scummy?" - neutralise
"I believe your Keyser read to be solid, but not solid enough to give me a reason to shift my vote." - appease

[If anyone has played with Reubus before, is this his usual playstyle? Or is he more agressive?]

However

, his defense (#181-188) from Bulbazoor's attack, I sensed a small changing shift in his persona (then ending with a summary of his reads). Is it because he was frustrated with Bulb's posts? He felt threatened...? Or he just wanted one last push before he is replaced?

Both Miteymouse and Reubus are on my D1 lynch pool list, so I don't know if you're (a) picking off the other lynch-bait candidates, (b) bussing Reubus, or that we are (c) two townies currently on the same page.


Look at my read/understanding of Rosen's previous post. Do you think I was over-analyzing, or had justification to flag her post as scummy?

RE: Rosen

, going to "over-analyze" post #42:

Keyser 14: My favorite ice cream flavor is rose, actually. So what's the point of this question? Seems very low information out of other possible "random" questions.

Fragger 16: Why did you opt to not answer the ice cream question initially?

Questions the purpose of my ''low information" question about icecream, but then challenges Fraggernaut a moment later about why he didn't answer it

Fraggernaut, you've made a few posts now but there's no scumhunting in them, just defense. Why is that?

Fraggernaut wasn't scumhunting because he was busy repelling my insults and accusations - I feel Rosen was

looking

at the thread, but intentionally not

reading

the situation, and using it against Fraggernaut.

The players who've recently come under focus are players who haven't posted much, which doesn't help (easy targets who can't defend themselves...) - hopefully we get some juicy input from MiteyMouse and Fro99er too this evening.

[Keyser Söze]

Can someone explain to me the rules of voting after the replacements?

Fro99er is Reubus Swagrid.
Master Zik is Rosen.


I believe they inherit their roles, votes-for and votes-against.

They do not gain D1 lynch immunity, if that is what you meant. Master Zik should have voted for 'Fro99er' really...

GuyInFreezer/enomis will confirm if otherwise.

[Keyser Söze]

However, I am rather confused as to why you aren't comfortable with a Reubus lynch D1. For starters, appeasing the town and neutralising everything is

a scumtell!

This is because scum are more concerned with looking town than finding scum, so in order to take the heat off them, they appease others.

Towards the end of the day I changed my view on Reubus when I was looking at Rosen's posts [I made a 180 on Reubus, when I re-read his passive/appeasement play as scummy, and looked at a possible connection with Rosen...] - it made them my primary lynch targets (I subsequenty unvoted enomis and voted Rosen). I did note that enomis supported a Rosen wagon, but superbowl had his reservations.

I look forward to hearing Fro99er's comments - let's see if

he

re-votes for you

[Keyser Söze]

Is he "70 percent chance to flip town"? Or less?

[Keyser Söze]

Is MiteyMouse on VLA...?

@mod, prod time.

[Keyser Söze]

I was seeing if mantis was a viable wagon. It's good to see what other people are thinking about lynch candidates so you can know which people you might be able to lynch. For example, if I kept pushing my keyser scumread when there's clearly a majority who townread him, nothing would get done because he's likely not going to get lynched today. It's better to focus your effort on getting people in or out of the hot seat, and that can't happen with a large majority leaning towards a townread. That's not to say you shouldn't try to convince people of your reads, but we've only got a couple days left here, so we kind of have to get moving.

Some may call that opportunistic

You or I may not be alive in D2 so it's best you present your full case on me now.

COME AT ME BRO. I'm right here

[Keyser Söze]

Been looking at everyone's vote, town reads and scum reads (ignored null reads for now).

Before I start a thorough analysis, have I got all the facts right?

Bulbazoor

- VOTE(S): [Rosen (2), Reubus Swagrid, Superbowl9] TOWN READS:

(Keyser Söze, superbowl9 (2), MiteyMouse, Mantisdreamz, enomis)

SCUM READS:

(Reubus Swagrid (2), Fraggernaut (2), Rosen (2), enomis, superbowl9)

enomis

- VOTE(S): [MiteyMouse, Rosen] TOWN READS:

(Bulbazoor (2), Fraggernaut, Keyser Söze)

SCUM READS:

(Reubus Swagrid)

Fraggernaut

- VOTE(S): [Keyser Söze] TOWN READS:

(Keyser Söze (2), Master Zik, superbowl9)

SCUM READS:

(Mantisdreamz, MiteyMouse)

Keyser Söze

- VOTE(S): [Reubus Swagrid, Rosen] TOWN READS:

(Fraggernaut, superbowl9, Mantisdreamz, Bulbazoor)

SCUM READS:

(Fraggernaut, enomis, Reubus Swagrid, Rosen)

Mantisdreamz

- VOTE(S): [Fraggernaut] TOWN READS:

(Keyser Söze (2), Bulbazoor, superbowl9)

SCUM READS:

()

MiteyMouse

- VOTE(S): [] TOWN READS:

()

SCUM READS:

()

Reubus Swagrid

- VOTE(S): [Rosen] TOWN READS:

(Bulbazoor, Keyser Söze)

SCUM READS:

()

Fro99er

- VOTE(S): [Bulbazoor] TOWN READS:

(superbowl9 (3), enomis (4), Keyser Söze (2), Fraggernaut (2))

SCUM READS:

(Keyser Söze, Bulbazoor, Mantisdreamz)

Rosen

- VOTE(S): [Bulbazoor] TOWN READS:

()

SCUM READS:

()

Master Zik

- VOTE(S): [Reubus Swagrid] TOWN READS:

(Keyser Söze, Bulbazoor, enomis, Fraggernaut)

SCUM READS:

(superbowl9, MiteyMouse, Reubus Swagrid)

superbowl9

- VOTE(S): [Reubus Swagrid, Keyser Söze] TOWN READS:

(Rosen, Bulbazoor)

SCUM READS:

(Keyser Söze (3), Reubus Swagrid, Mantisdreamz, enomis (2))

Early observations

I am astonished if MiteyMouse hasn't posted any of her town or scum reads. She is also yet to vote
Mantisdreamz is yet to post her scumreads
Bulbazoor has both scum and town read the same person a couple times, but has consistently voted for his scumreads.
Fro99er has expressed that enomis is town many times since he has joined us.
superbowl9 has expressed that he thinks Keyser Söze is scum multiple times but has not voted for him.
Keyser Söze is the most town-read player.
Reubus Swagrid is the most scum-read player.


This has helped me to re-evaluate my reads on people.

Comments are welcome.

[Keyser Söze]

MiteyMouse is now on my D1 lynch pool list.

[Keyser Söze]

I am fine with a Rosen Lynch today.
Anyway, i think we better come to a compromise lynch soon(5days deadline). Because if we don't and we try to lynch someone at the last minute and he claims PR, we would have a havoc and hard time switching wagon.

I think you all should not read too much into Rosen's replacement too. Most of the times, it has nothing to do with alignment.

VOTE: Rosen

This is

L1

I am saying this again, i am better working off townreads/ i have no strong scumreads at this point. Strongest scumread would be Reubus for his general posting style.
I got lynched in another game for doing this and i was so pissed off in that game.

Have any of your above opinions changed?

- Your strongest scumread was Reubus but you voted for Rosen.
- You were fine with a Rosen lynch, despite not scum-reading her before your vote.
- who do you want to put at L-1/"compromise lynch" well before the deadline?


Fro99er is very confident on you being town (you previously scum-read Reubus)
Master Zik is very confident on me being town (I previously scum-read Rosen)

Pattern? Coincidence?

Scumreads

At the moment, I'm thinking about which lynch would give us the most information.

[Keyser Söze]

Correction:

superbowl9 has expressed that he thinks Keyser Söze is scum multiple times but has not voted for him.

superbowl9 has voted for Keyser Söze.

[Keyser Söze]

This whole soft thing is getting ridiculous.

Let's resolve this once and for all, Bulbz:

If you're town you're screwed.
If you're mafia you're screwed.

For the people who have voted for Bulbazoor, do you really want him to fully roleclaim now?
Do you want to risk the possibility that he wasn't lying and lynch a town PR?

I personally think it is unwise to lynch someone who has soft roleclaimed a PR on D1. If he's lying he'll be found out later anyway, and we can lynch his ass

MiteyMouse finally makes a move... but it's to vote for Bulbazoor...

Mod, can we have a vote count please?

Is everyone online this weekend? We need to lynch someone ideally before Monday, otherwise I fear a NO LYNCH. The votes were spread out too much on the last VC.

[Keyser Söze]

Right now, the leading candidates on my D1 Lynch Pool are Fro99er and MiteyMouse.
enomis and Master Zik are now secondary options.

If everyone can post their #1 and #2 lynch candidates TODAY

, we don't have to have a meltdown on Monday rushing a wagon through.

If you want someone lynched, now's the time to air it - otherwise, if you die in N1 all your thoughts will die with you.

You just have to post 2 names and reasons (a vote is not necessary until Sunday/Monday).

[Keyser Söze]

Please can we have a VC.

I'm in favour of a Miteymouse or Mantisdreamz lynch.

If you're at hammer-point, please prepare your last words and roleclaim.

[Keyser Söze]

Wow, two roleclaims since I was last online

[Keyser Söze]

Alot of suicidal 'townies' this game If you're really town, you're making it easier for the mafia. Every town member should value their life, no matter what role. Basically saying

'lynch me, it doesn't matter'

, it basically invites mafia to safely hide in a wagon - plus, it makes you one of the worst candidates to have alive at LyLo.

Question to both Fro99er and MiteyMouse:

What do you think will be gained by your lynch?

If you flip town who should we look at?

[Keyser Söze]

The deadline is June 1st, 9:50 PM EST

[Keyser Söze]

Indeed, an innocent mod error - I will wait for the mod to update the VC before voting, incase someone is at L-1.

My vote was on Rosen (now Master Zik), I did not unvote.

I will likely hammer the #1/#2 lynch candidate.


Current D1 Lynch Pool:

MiteyMouse
Fro99er
Mantisdreamz

[Keyser Söze]

Nobody should be at L-1 then, cause you're the only vote on zik. I'm thinking about putting mitey at L-1 if a mantis wagon doesn't formulate soon.

Good idea I will be online this evening to ensure we hammer.

Unfortunately for MiteyMouse her (a) gamestyle and (b) willingness to be lynched has done her no favour in my eyes (if she's VT

or

PR). Her town/scum read list (Post #431) could be called

'too little, too late'

. To leave a defence this late to the deadline hour is detrimental to our D1 lynch It's more of a lynch we

have

to do, than would

like

to do.

I think the majority feel like there is at least

one

scum in Mantisdreamz-MiteyMouse-Fro99er. Bulbazoor is not a D1 lynch option, but everyone does not town-read his playstyle:


Looking at their respective votes:

Mantisdreamz is voting for Fro99er
MiteyMouse is voting for Bulbazoor
Bulbazoor and Fro99er are voting for MiteyMouse

Fortunately, all their votes are weirdly entwined with eachother. A flip on Mantisdreamz-MiteyMouse-Fro99er will hopefully give us more clues on the others.


Fro99er has openly welcomed his own lynch (even the offer to self hammer), therefore, if we let Fro99er live past D1 he'll need to be lynched well before a LyLo situation later on.

Therefore, it is a Mantisdreamz vs MiteyMouse showdown. NO LYNCH is not an option.

No more roleclaims from anyone too - unless you're at L-1

[Keyser Söze]

Why would you want to lynch a townie? You're not even giving me a chance, which feels like lining up lynches......

"Why would you want to lynch a townie?" so said every scum Of course I don't want to lynch town, but are we to believe everyone's "I'm a townie" claim

In my eyes, your offer to self-hammer/soft roleclaim has bought you time

. In no way does it prove you are town. However, you can be proven town by

Process Of Elimination

later.

[Keyser Söze]

However, you can be proven town by

Process Of Elimination

later.

So why are you lining me up for a lynch later then?

Do you want me to broadcast the roleclaims?

In certain situations you would need to be lynched before Lylo.
However, if 'certain' town roles are lynched/NK'd you'd be safe.

I've been lining you "up for a lynch" for D1... but your offer to self-hammer/soft roleclaim has bought you time. If you are town, and all my scum-reads are town I will be forced to look at my current town reads. This is simple stuff.

[Keyser Söze]

Re-read my post:

"In certain situations you would need to be lynched before Lylo" = LINE YOU UP FOR LYNCH / POLICY LYNCH
"However, if 'certain' town roles are lynched/NK'd you'd be safe" = PoE

Just because you want to self-hammer yourself, this does not prove your alignment brah. I've seen both town and scum propose town with the very same logic.
If we leave all our scum-reads alive for later after they plead to us thay they are "townie", and we still haven't caught any mafia, our original scum-reads will need to be lynched before LyLo (because scum will likely keep you alive now after your hammer-offer/roleclaim ).


If Mitey/Mantis/yourself are all town, at least it'll be an interesting game then.

You didn't need to self-hammer/vote because we have 2 other names on the Lynch Pool list.

3 (soft) role claims on D1

[Keyser Söze]

I never said it proved my alignment. IN fact, I said...

I'm very clearly stating my towniness hasn't been proven.

Exactly. Surely then, you should agree that you can't get a free-ride for the rest of the game? Your offer to self-vote/hammer means nothing to me Only your scum-hunting can change my read on you, and only through PoE can you definitively be safe from the policy lynch.

[Keyser Söze]

I will take my vote off Master Zik.

UNVOTE: Master Zik

He town-reads my town-reads, scum-reads my scum-reads and reads me as town.

He's either town or played the easy

get-out-of-jail

card...



...I like him as town for D1.

[Keyser Söze]

I'll be online for 2-3 more hours. 10pm here.

I'll vote for Mantis or Mitey.

If no one shows up we'll have to go with a Fro99er lynch (IMO he should be a future policy lynch though). I'll take it the people who didn't show up want the Fro99er lynch...

[Keyser Söze]

Mantis it is.
Mantis can fully roleclaim now... something tells me she'll be online, anytime soon...

If she flips scum I doubt her mafia partner was on her wagon... If I was scum I would have personally stayed offline for the last few hours of the D1 deadline and got Fro99er lynched

Rosen's and Reubus' replacements have admittedly played an important role in saving their 'slots'

[Keyser Söze]

The Master will arrive soon...

12 hours later...

So, Mitey arrives to save the day...

It's 2:44am here, is the mod online?

[Keyser Söze]

One of Bulbazoor's many classic lines this game

[Keyser Söze]

D2:

- full analysis on Mantis' posts.

- scrutinize my 'town-reads' as much as my 'scum-reads'

- update of vote/town-reads/scum-reads summary

- D1 wagon analysis

[Keyser Söze]

Top analysis superbowl9, I'll add further comments when I can.

Fraggernaut,

Town Jailkeeper

, was killed Night 1.

Few comments on Fraggernaut's flip:

Fraggernaut is the Town Jailkeeper, meaning someone should now know for a

certainty

if Bulbazoor is lying or not about being able to prove his alignment (i.e town PR). If they do choose to come forward and counter-claim, we know either them or Bulbazoor is lying and is mafia. It is my belief that a VT should

never

claim a town PR, because it forces the real-PR to reveal themselves - very anti-town.

I was thinking a Fraggernaut lynch was likely. It was either him, me, enomis or superbowl9 who I think the mafia would have chosen (everyone's favourite town-reads). Keeping alive lynch-bait players (Fro99er and MiteyMouse) and highly suspicious players (Master Zik and Bulbazoor) was a good move for D2. Conclusion? Remember to keep one eye on Keyser Söze, enomis and superbowl9.

[Keyser Söze]

votecount 1.11

Fro99er (3):

Master Zik,

Mantisdreamz

(SE), enomis (IC)

Mantisdreamz (5):

superbowl9, Bulbazoor, Fro99er,

Fraggernaut

, MiteyMouse (SE)

Not Voting:

Keyser Söze

I'm going to re-look at Mantisdreamz's wagon later: the people who wanted it (including me, but I didn't need to vote) and the people who were opposed (or quite happy to let if happen!). There could be at least one mafia on Mantisdreamz's wagon [superbowl9, Bulbazoor, Fro99er,

Fraggernaut

, MiteyMouse, Keyser Söze].

Need to look at:

- all of Fraggernaut's posts (their town/scum reads)
- all of Mantisdreamz's posts (their town/scum reads)
[...we can view them as true townies scum-hunting]

- MiteyMouse's breadcrumbed VT claim
- Master Zik's disappearance at deadline hour
- enomis' (IC) and MiteyMouse's (SE) little input



See you guys later.

[Keyser Söze]

My current D2 lynch pool:

MiteyMouse
Fro99er
Master Zik
enomis

Firstly, looking at

enomis'

exchanges with Master Zik, Fro99er and MiteyMouse (and vice-versa) comments in blue and red:

Zik-Enomis:

Enomis put rosen at L-1. Other than that very few notable interactions except Zik's townread on him.

Enomis was fine with a Rosen/Zik lynch. Enomis appreciates Zik's effort to play the game, but does not think Zik's large wall post is town-indicative. Enomis questions Zik on "favouring reubus over mitey". Enomis notices Zik's "experience" with mafia.

Zik declares "Enomis is likely to be town". Zik states that he is "hoping for him to be town because he would be an asset to us". Zik agrees that Enomis' posts haven't been very strong town. Zik believes Enomis is deliberately making himself not a "high priority night kill target by mafia". Zik town-reads Enomis' "constantly interacting with other players". Zik is "not sure how he's" not understanding Keyser's thought process. Zik describes Enomis' responses as "waffly". Zik questions Enomis "why have you not unvoted my slot?" Zik disagrees with Enomis' summarization: "That's grossly misrepresentative! Uncharacteristic of an IC, and more indicative of a scum trait".

Frog-Enomis:

Enomis puts frogger at L-2 for what might be a misunderstanding. Enomis was on reu early, but nothing recent. Frog ultra-townreads enomis, while reu nullreads him with pretty much 0 interactions.

Enomis had an early gut scum feeling on Reubus. Enomis felt Reubus' early post was insincere and scummy. Enomis felt Reubus/Frog was a good wagon to build. Enomis states his strongest scumread was Reubus. Enomis describes Reubus as "active lurking". Enomis feels Reubus' "general posting style" is not town. Enomis states that appeasing is not a scumtell, after I'd scum-read Reubus' interactions as either neutralising or appeasing. Enomis thought I was "scumreading [Reubus] for the wrong reasons". Enomis "got turned off" reading Fro99er's long analysis. States Fro99er as his scum read "entirely because of his predecessor. He reads null to me even after all that wall post". Enomis declares that he is "fine with leaving Fro99er for day 2 and reading more of her on day 2". The next day, Enomis notices how Fro99er talked "literally nothing about mitey and suddenly have a huge ass load of points about him scum". Now asks people to lynch Fro99er, accusing Fro99er of a "desperate attempt to avoid a lynch today by choosing a popular target".

In summary, Fro99er: "Enomis is soooooooo town"

Mitey-Enomis:

Mitey townreads enomis, nothing on mitey from enomis until recently, when he says he would lynch her if he got the chance. This one's not too unlikely.

Enomis made an early random vote on MiteyMouse. Enomis describes Mitey as "lurking". Enomis wanted Mitey to explain their vote on Bulb. Enomis is fine with miteymouse lynch. Enomis states that he is happy to "switch to mitey if fro99er lynch don't gain support".

Mitey agrees with Enomis that she is "better with getting Town reads than getting Scum reads". Mitey states her read on enomis: "I don't see this slot as Scummy right now. I don't think we should ignore it but, nothing has jumped at me yet."

I've got the strongest conclusion on the Fro99er-Enomis interactions:

Fro99er-Enomis is either TOWN-TOWN or MAFIA-TOWN. Less likely to be MAFIA-MAFIA.

I feel like there is more chance of a MAFIA-MAFIA combination in Zik-Enomis and Mitey-Enomis.

Agree/disagree?

[Keyser Söze]

I was thinking a Fraggernaut lynch was likely.

lynch = NK

[Keyser Söze]

If I'm nk'ed, just remember who pushed on me, who my reads were, & lead town to victory.

We'll do our best bro. I hope we play together as town in the future soon too - we seem to have read eachother very well. Ok, now let's look at Fraggernaut's reads and see who pushed him...

OK, Fraggernaut was looking at Bulbazoor on D1:

Spoiler:

I also find it interesting that frag scumreads me out of the blue.

I've been scum reading you since that soft. Wasn't out of the blue.

Also find it interesting that Bulb is scum reading me after I asked him about the soft then denying it was a soft. Then turning right back around in 160 & admitting to the soft again.

UNVOTE: froggerVOTE: MiteyMouse

I have assessed frogger. He seems to read me over alot. I have noticed he is putting in bis two cents into the game. At the end of the day, hes going to end up townreading me.

I feel this is a good lynch, as it gives us more useful information about mitey and possible scumteams. Another good lynch would. Be mantis. Ill get more into mantis Sunday.

You are quite a peculiar player I must say. You scum read me, jump on the Mitey vote (maybe a possible d2 play to say I led a bandwagon), then come back & read me null after I pinged you out for not reassessing reads throughout the game.

I'm sure someone (namely scum) will try to say I'm tunneling Bulb hard, which isn't what I'm trying to do. I want to step back & observe all of Bulb's game; but when I do he comes back & says something that sets off red flags. It's alarming.

[So why did mafia NK Fraggernaut? Is Bulbazoor mafia... was he rattled by Fraggernaut's line of questions? Doubt it. Did mafia think we'd look at Bulbazoor more closely as Fraggernaut was not convinced by his posts? More likely.]

Fraggernaut's reads: (green town, scum read, null blue)

Spoiler:

Keyser

still seems town to me, as does

Super

&

Mitey

.

Rosen

,

Reubus

, &

Enomis

I'm null on for now.

Bulb

is still scummy to me. Not really sure where to put

Mantis

just yet, so I guess they're null as well regardless of the vote.

As to 303 . I had both

Rosen

&

Reubus

as null reads. Wasn't too sure on either of them.

Master

so far I like your logic, & how you are trying to break this game down & figure it out. To me right now that's towny. I still have

Keyser

&

Super

town. I have you &

Fro99er

null cause while you just joined, I like the content of both your posts so far; I'm just not ready to put you fully in my town circle.

Enomis

I still have null. I want to believe you're town, I just haven't seen enough out of you.

Bulb

, at the moment I'm moving back to null. I'm still watching you, & your earlier play.

Mantis

I'm reading scum. Dropped a vote on me, gave kind of a half answer to the vote, & has disappeared.

Mighty

I'm reading scum currently as well. I feel even with time away from the game, you still know mechanics of the game, & how to play it . That experience never leaves you.

Negative. Im town but nice try to throw scum on me. I'm pretty confident now the scum team is

Mantis

/

Mighty

Doesn't change that right now

Mitey

& yourself are my top scum reads.

@Bulb How am I following a Mitey vote?

Mitey

&

Mantis

have been my scum for awhile since I read you null.

My town circle is:

Keyser

Super

Enomis

Bulb

&

Fro99er

are null town lean

Mitey

&

Mantis

are still my top two scum

Mitey should be the first lynch, they've been the scummiest in this game. If we lynch Mantis today, mitey has to be tomorrow

UNVOTE: Mitey

VOTE: Mantis

So d2 we need to look at

Mitey

, as well as investigate the two slots that were replaced, in my opinion.

[OK, so here we need to make a decision. Are mafia playing mind games with us. Fraggernaut and many others wanted the MiteyMouse lynch. Have mafia NK'd Fraggernaut and kept MiteyMouse alive because she's obvious lynchbait? Or is MiteyMouse actually mafia?!]

[Keyser Söze]

Zik-Frog:

Didn't keyser have a theory on this pairing if rosen flipped scum? I'd like to hear that.

Yes, trying to find my notes...

Something to do with:
- Reubus' early vote on Rosen (Post #11) [kind of a scum-voting-on-scum, to try to muddy their connection together ]
- Reubus' omitting Rosen's name completely on his scum/town/null read list (Post #189) [possibly not an innocent error, but a scum slip - to go through your town/scum read list of everyone, but forget to name your scum partner in your list ]

All theory of course.


But then both got replaced, which made me take a step back. What a cowardly pair of mafia if they were scum though

[Keyser Söze]

One point, if Enomis is mafia, and either Master Zik or MiteyMouse his mafia partner, I believe Enomis is the mafia roleblocker, and Master Zik/MiteyMouse is a mafia goon, as he was quite happy to lynch/bus either of them. I.e

'keep the mafia PR alive'

.

If Enomis is town, then we still need to look at Master Zik/MiteyMouse.

Enomis did not comment on the Mantis wagon, neither did he want to stop it, he wanted Fro99er lynched. I'm curious to hear his reads now.



My theory on Fraggernaut and Superbowl was correct - I said both couldn't be mafia when they were on my early wagon. It was either one or none. Fragg flipped town. So for now, I think it is none. It sounds like everyone is calling Superbowl town too now - thus, scum are conforming to the general consensus. Similarly how most are reading me as town too - scum don't want to make a scene, they want town to go after the obvious lynch-bait, not the strong town reads of town.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm looking at why Bulbazoor wasn't NK'd...

	A	B	C
1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Cop	Town Doctor
3	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker

If Bulbazoor is a town PR, then the scum team includes a Mafia Roleblocker: I'm sure they would have loved to NK Bulbazoor on N1...

But I believe they couldn't gamble on there NOT being a Town Doctor, who would have likely protected Bulbazoor... so they chose to NK Fraggernaut.


If the scum team are two mafia goons, then Bulbazoor was lying about his town PR.

Conclusion: Bulbazoor is the Town 1-shot Bulletproof and the mafia chickened out on NK'ing Bulbazoor.

[Keyser Söze]

Plus, I believe mafia couldn't gamble on Bulbazoor NOT being the Town 1-shot Bulletproof.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: GuyInFreezer

GuyInFreezer has been lynched Day 2, he was the

mod

,

Now it is Night 2.

If I lose this game it should be void. 2 replaced players (they better not be scum!) and 1 replaced mod


I doubt I'll play here ever again after this game

[Keyser Söze]

If I was the Town 3-Shot Day Vigilante I would shoot the following players right now:

enomis (last post 5 days 5 hours days ago)
Master Zik (4 days 0 hours)
MiteyMouse (3 days 12 hours)

@Mod

, can you tell me how many mafia would theoretically be left alive?

Please prod the s**t out of them If any of them are scum there would be no honour in a mafia win

[Keyser Söze]

I don't believe we should jump to any conclusions/speculation about the NK and about Bulbazoor's role until we've heard from the players that are in need of prodding. Keyser, you yourself say if there's another PR that they could come forward. So let's hear if any of them come forward before jumping to conclusions about Bulb.

I think we can speculate now, because even from D1, Bulbazoor let the cat out of the bag with his roleclaim. Now that we have Fraggernaut's flip there is no hiding, there are no secrets. In my eyes it's as clear as day, and someone will be forced to lie now. I can jump to any conclusions I want until someone flips, I'm not going to wait about for lurkers. There is no 'elephant in the room', the elephant was shot in the head on D1 after 3 roleclaims. Let's clean this s**t up. Moreover, whether you think I'm town

or

mafia, you should be interested to know what conclusions I come to, before and after a flip.

Also, speculation on the NK can often be a scum-tell...I feel like you're doing what you did D1 and trying to deflect the attention everywhere else.

"scum-tell"? So you think I'm a mafia mastermind who manipulated Mantis' miss-lynch, insidiously made myself everyone's town-read, deflecting attention elsewhere, masterfully NK'ing Fraggernaut the Jailkeeper to frame Mitey, then on D2 chose to buddy up with superbowl and disclose all my secrets...? You're wasting your time. I'm an ok player, but not

that

good. It's quite obvious what alignment and role I've had from D1.

I do commend you for getting me to reconsider Enomis though. And we are in agreement that it's possible (likely?) at least one scum was on the Mantis wagon. I don't believe both scum were, to keep their distance. From my POV it's either Mitey, Bulb, or Super, and I believe Super is town and willing to give Bulb the PR benefit of the doubt, as well as stuck with my rope a dope read on Mitey.

VOTE: Mitey

Yes, doubt both mafia were on Mantis' lynch. Mitey is definitely on my D2 lynch pool - but not the outright choice candidate atm.

Who the hell breadcrumbs their VT role to the mafia?

'Yes, that's right, let's make it easier for the mafia to find out who the town PR's are'

It does not make sense. By N1, there were only a limited pool of who could have been a town PR and the mafia struck gold

Mitey is either an anti-town VT, or mafia goon. The only thing making me not vote for Mitey right now is the ironic fact that Fraggernaut really wanted a Mitey D2 lynch The obvious lynch sometimes isn't the wisest lynch. enomis and Master Zik's disappearance at the D1 deadline is really bugging me.

[Keyser Söze]

I'm going to lurk for 5 days now.

When I stop seeing anti-town play I'll come back. 2 replacements, 1 mod replacement. 3 roleclaims. I've had enough with this game. Being accused of looking soooooo town. Only superbowl is making logical sense atm, and we both probably want to kill eachother See you next week.

[Keyser Söze]

Except this one part...

You said (direct quote) "there were only a limited pool of who could have been a town PR and the mafia struck gold"

then why did you say night killing Frag was masterful if there was only a limited pool and it was like striking gold (luck).

I kept repeating myself on D1, something like "I don't want to broadcast" it but "shut the f**k up" basically. I even told you personally, I don't want to broadcast the roleclaims.

If all the townies tell the mafia who are the VT's, the mafia will know who the muthaf**king town PR's are. Simple stuff, for Christ's sake

Yes, they hit jackpot, by striking the Jailkeeper - but the odds were in their favour from all the anti-town play.

[Keyser Söze]

Disgusting logic. I feel ill.

If everyone wants to lynch me on that logic, then we truly are f****d.

I nearly feel as ill as I was on D1, when you started saying "lynch me, lynch me, I will glady bend over and self-lynch myself if you don't lynch me, lynch me, lynch me" (that is a direct quote) ...talk about anti-town play

You make me sick.



I still don't think this gif does it justice.

I try to scum hunt, then get the whole "you sound soooooo like a townie, you're scum!" accusation thrown at me...


See you all in 5 days and 8 hours time.

[Keyser Söze]

Absolutely not anti-town play. My situation D1 was the same situation our moderator found himself in Newbie 1593 and offered to self vote (he was VT). It was a very pro-town move to want to have a lynch rather than a no-lynch.

Absolutely anti-town play. How about my D1 situation in Newbie 1608 when we had a 3 unnecessary roleclaims with already two clear lynch candidates. It was a very anti-town move to narrow down the town PR pool for the mafia.

It continues...

Also, your AtE and pictures/GIFs are anti-town at best, scum at worst. You're throwing a near tantrum for the fact that I could possibly scum read you.

AtE (appeal to emotion)? More like AtL (appeal to LOGIC)

Once you understand how illogical and anti-town you have been, or another townie b*tchslaps some common sense into you, you will unvote.


This is now my favourite read so far... I'm now an "anti-town" mafia Gee, I wish we had a "pro-town" mafia scum team, they would reveal themselves straight away, so that we could lynch them.

What. A. Load. Of. Bulls**t.

[Keyser Söze]

I think we should give them 4 or 5 more days to show up - otherwise it's taking the piss. I might report this game to the mafiascum moderators to get it re-rolled.

[Keyser Söze]

So much anger in you Keyser.

This isn't f*****g Star Wars mate, you sound like a butt-hurt Master Yoda

An "angry" "anti-town" mafia? An even better custom title.

Give up bro. We need to do some scum-hunting now.

[Keyser Söze]

Rosen, low activity, then replaced.
Master Zik, attending to important RL, low activity, VLA.

Ok, not looking at this slot for now as they can't defend themselves, but would hate to be in a LyLo situation with them later. Another replacement may be needed...

@mod

, if someone is on VLA, are their PM's still active/can they still post? Do mafia have an external 'scum chat' website?

[Keyser Söze]

MiteyMouse, explain why you wanted to breadcrumb your VT role in the thread? Did you think certain town PR's were playing...?

I believe a VT should always strive to be NK'd. If you are town you made your NK very unlikely. If the VT's decrease the possible town PR pool, it is very dangerous. Instead, you have made yourself obvious lynchbait.

If you're town you've made an unforgivable error. Therefore, it is more likely you are scum who naturally didn't care, and have been actively anti-town unintentionally. There is a possibility you knew that there might be a town cop so you naively said you breadcrumbed your VT role to him in the thread.

Anti-town VT or obvious mafia goon?

My town-reads want you lynched too... atm, I'd rather lynch you than them.

[Keyser Söze]

I agree.

Let's lynch the "overly towny people". We must not lynch our anti-town scum reads.

It makes perfect logical sense.

[Keyser Söze]

Welcome BlueBloodedToffee, and thank you GuyInFreezer, you're looking more pro-town to me now. UNVOTE: GuyInFreezer

[Keyser Söze]

OK, going to work with your theory on Bulbazoor:

If Bulbazoor is mafia he's a mafia goon. This kind of explains why Fraggernaut was grilling him so hard on D1 (at the time I thought Fraggernaut and others should have left Bulbazoor alone, with the potential of him being a town PR who had soft roleclaimed, I was strongly against his D1 lynch).

However, Fraggernaut was justly perplexed why Bulbazoor soft roleclaimed - unbeknownst to us, Fraggernaut was the Town Jailkeeper, therefore if Bulbazoor was town,
Fraggernaut knew Bulbazoor was either lying about his town PR, OR that he was the Town 1-shot Bulletproof, which is a role you DO NOT want to breadcrumb to the mafia. If Bulbazoor is the Town 1-shot Bulletproof by soft roleclaiming early he made himself instant lynch-bait for the rest of the game.

Therefore, fairplay to Fraggernaut to keep the pressure on Bulbazoor til his NK.

[Keyser Söze]

513 - Keyser, it is not certain that someone knows Bulba is lying. We could be in the set-up that contains only the JK.

At that point in the game, if there was a Town 1-shot Bulletproof he would know Bulbazoor was lying for certain. Since then, no counter claim.

Conclusion: Bulbazoor is either Town 1-shot Bulletproof (set-up | column A) or a Mafia Goon (set-up | row 1).

[Keyser Söze]

That's another set of 'new eyes' who think's Mitey is scummy

@MiteyMouse, do you do this on purpose?

Actually, Mitey has already answered this earlier:

And a bit about me. My Scum hunting isn't like other people's necessarily. I question and get my reads and keep them with me. I feel that posting my reads frequently gives Scum more to work with.

Now, I know this is not the norm and I frequently get myself lynched.

I am of the mind that every lynch gets information so, I'm ok with it when I'm Town.

you will giggle when you find my crumb.

I'm not giggling... I don't want to lynch town again. I hope you value your life now for D2, if you are town you should. There is no need to sacrifice yourself as an information-lynch. Need you to fight for your life now (all townie lives are important, even the anti-town ones). I'm nervous how easy this MiteyMouse vote/lynch is.

[Keyser Söze]

Need Bulbazoor's reply - a Bulbazoor town PR/mafia goon flip would be a massive game-changer. I'm also aware scum would love for us to lynch him if he's not lying, and we are miss-reading his emotive inconsistent playing style.

Need to look at if a Bulbazoor-MiteyMouse scum partnership is likely/unlikely too.

I think I first saw it as unlikely but will re-check later.

[Keyser Söze]

The annoying thing is, the Town 1-shot Bulletproof role is a town PR he won't be ever able to prove no matter whatever anybody else flips.

i.e if he was a cop, he would have been able to give us investigations each night. If one of his scum-investigations flipped town, we would know he's lying. But the Town 1-shot Bulletproof doesn't have that benefit.

Bulbazoor should not have soft role-claimed. He should not have denied he solf role-claimed. I personally think all the role-claims were anti-town.

In other words, Bulbazoor is just as useful as a vanilla townie at the moment (

but still town

).

Mafia will kill the town

town-reads

one-by-one leaving Bulbazoor alive. Lynch-bait (Bulbazoor and MiteyMouse) will be left alive as far as possible.

[Keyser Söze]

Bulbazoor the floor is yours.

[Keyser Söze]

At the moment, I'm looking at both perspectives (the same way I'm trying really hard to see MiteyMouse as town). The seriousness of lynching a possible town PR has slightly diminished.

I scum-read him early D1, he then soft role-claimed, he continued to be inconsistent (which I described as a scummy trait at the time), but I felt it was the pro-town action to keep him alive for D1. I thus urged everyone to back-off. I now realise Fraggernaut had justified reasons to remain sceptical of Bulbazoor's claim.

D2, we found out Fraggernaut's flip which puts a twist on Bulbazoor's early D1 soft roleclaim.

My favourite Bulbazoor post was

Post #558

, a moment after superbowl9 and Fro99er had voted/scum-read me:

I agree with both super and frog. While key is very towny, I remember that overly towny people are usually mafia on here. I do think of mitey as null now, because her reaction seems towny.

This was my RL reaction:



This post reeked of opportunism (but then again, consistent with his playstyle so far)

Right now, I need to decide whether he's been anti-town (through his playstyle) or scummy (gameplan).

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser, I breadcrumbed my role incase I got to mass claim and wasn't believed. I thought it was cleverly hidden and nobody would find it without me pointing to it. I think that had I not mentioned it, nobody would have seen it so, yes, you are right that I lessened the pool, I think that it was hidden enough.

You don't breadcrumb a VT role though IMO. Scum can easily hint a VT role too, thus, at a mass claim stage it wouldn't have been worth its salt (scum always hide behind VT roles).

Keyser, just because someone is

consistently

bad how does that make them town?

You have to look at the content/context of their posts and discern what they are trying to do. You're right about 558 and I missed that the first time around, it's pretty opportunistic and I can see that as scum thinking they have a chance of getting rid of a vocal town!voice.

Consistent in regard to opportunistic (not alignment). I've seen some consistently bad play since I've been playing mafia but it never means they're conclusively scum. When I was looking at the voting-town/scum behavior of everyone, Bulbazoor recorded the most votes/town/scum-reads more than anybody else on D1 (he even scum read and town read the same person on multiple occasions),

inconsistent? wagon jumping? opportunistic?

MiteyMouse hadn't even recorded 1 vote or posted her town/scum reads. I don't think scum are ever that obvious -

scum hiding in plain sight?

[Keyser Söze]

You made them once you'd been picked up on it...

Will check later to confirm...

[Keyser Söze]

NOBODY VOTE FFS

[Keyser Söze]

MiteyMouse on Master Zik:

Master Zik...Something about the first post rubbed me wrong. Time to teach a lesson (paraphrasing) sounded really cocky to me and not in a Townie way. Then he started an anti MiteyMouse charge and since the only thing I know for sure is my role, this doesn't seem Townie to me. Now, I do understand that I'm not everyone's cup of tea so to speak but, it's something to look at. Also, there is more to look at than just reads. Like I said, I don't like posting mine as it gives Scum more to work with.

Master Zik on Miteymouse:

Miteymouse is probably scum.

None of her posts are good at all. She's an SE, so I expect more. Mantis was showing some scumhunting, interacting with other players and giving reads, helping to point town in what is hopefully in the right direction. I do not see that from Miteymouse. None of her posts show any example of scumhunting, I don't see any reads, and I think she's scum. Scum don't need to scumhunt because they already know who the scum are.

[Keyser Söze]

@Fro99er, you've been on both miss-lynches - I'll presume that you're a VT. Super didn't agree about my "too scummy to be scummy" comment, but I was right. I think you've been too scummy to be scum.

Super: totally agree. I believe Bulb is VI and Mitey is scum.

Not going to ask you why you found it so easy to fall for BlueBloddedToffee's hard-sell on Bulbazoor - Bulbazoor made many anti-town decisions (which could have arguably been perceived as scummy). I thought your scum-read on me and MiteyMouse was stronger though.

BlueBloddedToffee entered into the thread like a wrecking ball - a case of the blind leading the blind. Thought about whether he was mafia and duped some gullible VT's onto Bulbazoor's wagon, but I don't think that is the case. I feel it is VT getting his scumread wrong, and opportunistic mafia jumping aboard the wagon.

Master Zik - unforgivable anti-town mistake. WTF WAS THAT HAMMER?! Not town-reading you anymore, fro99er has taken your town slot.

Miteymouse - you've been anti-town from the start and haven't done anything to change my mind. You take the second mafia slot.

We need to lynch mafia now. No mistakes. If anybody votes we lose potentially. We've got plenty of time to talk. I will promise to try to stay calm.

[Keyser Söze]

D1 lynch:

votecount 1.11

Fro99er (3):

Master Zik,

Mantisdreamz

(SE), enomis (IC)

Mantisdreamz

(5):

superbowl9

,

Bulbazoor

, Fro99er,

Fraggernaut

, MiteyMouse (SE)

Not Voting:

Keyser Söze

D2 lynch:

votecount 2.03

Bulbazoor

(4):

BlueBloddedToffee (IC),

superbowl9

, Fro99er, Master Zik

Fro99er (1):

Bulbazoor

Not Voting:

Keyser Söze, MiteyMouse (SE)

I wasn't on the lynch wagon on either day - but wanted the mantis/mitey lynch D1, and the mitey lynch D2.

[Keyser Söze]

...if they are the two mafia, it's the first time I've ever seen scum land the hammer on two consecutive days!

What we've done wrong this game is keeping alive all the lynch-bait, ignoring our strong scum-reads and pushing for an information lynch instead.

Bulbazoor was being called town the very same day he was hammered hours later.



Now going to wait for Master Zik's "lesson" he promised us from D1...

Lesson 42: "How to hammer a townie without looking scummy". I think he needs to re-read that chapter.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser is my top town read.

If I was the Town 3-Shot Day Vigilante I would shoot the following players right now:

Master Zik (4 days 0 hours)

Please prod the s**t out of them

The obvious lynch sometimes isn't the wisest lynch. enomis and Master Zik's disappearance at the D1 deadline is really bugging me.

I don't like how some players, possibly scum, are attacking me because "where is he?" or "He disappeared".

"Possibly scum" - were you indirectly talking to

moi

, your "top town read"?


I'm now gonna re-read your town/scum list, in the mindset of you being mafia:

Here are my reads:

(Town -> Scum): {Keyser, Bulbazoor, enomis, Fraggernaut, Mantisdreamz, superbowl9, MiteyMouse, Reubus Swagrid}

Keyser is my top town read.

Bulbazoor is probably town.

Enomis is likely to be town.

Fraggernaut is maybe town.

I don't know about mantisdreamz

superbowl might be scum.

Miteymouse is probably scum.

Reebus Swagrid is probably scum.

I bet you weren't lying about any of your town reads (you wanted us on your side): [Keyser, Bulbazoor, Enomis, Fraggernaut], but I bet you named one of your mafia-buddies in your scum reads: [Miteymouse, Reebus Swagrid].

Come D2, you ditch your fro99er/MiteyMouse scum-leads, and are quite happy to hammer Bulbazoor...

[Keyser Söze]

I'd honestly consider Keyser, but that would be option #3.

There is no third option!

We either get it right now or go home.

We're not voting until we've reasoned out who the final two mafia are. I'm not interested in anymore 'information lynches' or 'you are 100% town/you are 100% scum' reads. No more impulse voting. Only logic. You're lucky I'm not a 1-shot day vig to put to end your reign of anti-town terrorism

If I'm option #3, you're obviously not sold on 'Master Zik-MiteyMouse' which confuses me - do you honestly not want to lynch either of them now?

Tbh, your gameplay and BlueBloodedToffee's gameplay haven't given me much faith in your town-alignment, but my Process of Elimination you must be

[Keyser Söze]

How can you be confused. I want to lynch Mitey. They are and have been since D1 a scumread of mine.

All talk. You voted Bulbazoor D2, and wanted to lynch yourself D1 Just make sure you vote for your scum read now.

[obviously don't vote just yet though ]

[Keyser Söze]

I'm sold on Mitey. I'm less sold on who her scumpartner is.

I'm just trying to figure out who Zik's partner is now.

Stop contradicting yourself. You are the most anti-town contradictory scummy townie I have ever played with. If you lynch me, your perfect anti-town game would be complete.

[Keyser Söze]

wanted to lynch yourself D1

I did not WANT to lynch myself D1. I said if we got down to deadline, with a nolynch possible, and I was at L-1, I'd vote myself.

I'd much rather have WANTED to vote scum. You're making shit up now.

VT's SHOULD NOT TELL THE MAFIA THEY WANT TO VOTE FOR THEMSELVES.
YOU HELPED THE MAFIA NARROW DOWN THE TOWN PR POOL.

[Keyser Söze]

I could think both Mitey and Zik are scummy, but not think they are partners. All that means is I know one of my reads is wrong.

So you're saying Mitey may be town now?

[Keyser Söze]

VT's SHOULD NOT TELL THE MAFIA THEY WANT TO VOTE FOR THEMSELVES.
YOU HELPED THE MAFIA NARROW DOWN THE TOWN PR POOL.

Completely disagree in that situation. Our esteemed moderator GIF agrees too, because that's EXACTLY the situation he was in as VT in newbie 1593

We were lynching either Mantis or Mitey, I'd even promised to hammer if need be - but MiteyMouse did the honours.

We didn't need 3 roleclaims that day. All anti-town.

[Keyser Söze]

Couldn't reason with you D1, couldn't reason with you D2, couldn't reason with you now: you've f**ked this up for town.

[Keyser Söze]

Tbh, your gameplay and BlueBloodedToffee's gameplay haven't given me much faith in your town-alignment, but my Process of Elimination you must be

So, I hate this line.

Hate. It.

I hate your wrecking ball approach f***king up our game. Well done.

I'll off.

[Keyser Söze]

If Mitey is town scum would have hammered and basically just won the game.

Everyone unvote.

[Keyser Söze]

IT MEANS THAT THE TWO MAFIA ARE NOT IN [BLUEBLOODEDTOFFEE - FRO99ER - MASTER ZIK]

ONLY ONE.

[Keyser Söze]

Wanted an unvote just in case you boys wanted to pull the trigger early again and waste days of research / scum hunting.

[Keyser Söze]

IT MEANS THAT THE TWO MAFIA ARE NOT IN [BLUEBLOODEDTOFFEE - FRO99ER - MASTER ZIK]

ONLY ONE.

This is wrong btw.

I don't know how you're ruling people out like that. Like, how do you know I'm not scum with Zik?

You're anti-town, not scum.

[Keyser Söze]

Keyser has lined himself up to jump on ANY possible wagon that could form.

I'm not liking his play at all so far Today.

Incorrect. You haven't been reading the thread again. I've only wanted to lynch two people.

"I'm not liking his play at all so far Today"

- judging by your history of reads, this means I'm town, thankyou

[Keyser Söze]

MiteyMouse, is Master Zik mafia?

[Keyser Söze]

It's alright Fro99er I forgive you - I complained about enomis/Rosen/Master Zik to the mods for not being active.

They should have been modkilled when it reached 5 or 6 days without posting, and we would have won - no honour in lurking, but it's an effective scum tactic.

I did not read BBT's wrecking ball approach as scum, so well done - the thread needed a 'new voice' to change things up - welldone in convincing everyone to lynch Bulbazoor.

Master Zik's hammer made me laugh though

Too many D1 early roleclaims for my liking.

[Keyser Söze]

Good job to superbowl though...you were a strong townread all game. I just wish I hadn't strong townread the enomis/BBT slot

Yes, remember: scum tell you what you want to hear. Listen to the voices disagreeing with you

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, Bulbazoor should have made himself a night target, not a lynch target.